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- [00:02]
Jen Sullivan
Acast powers the world's best podcasts.
- [00:06]
Jessica Matlin
Here's a show that we recommend this season on the Dream. Supplies are being by nurses who run out in the middle of the night and purchase diapers but the hospital is still charging as if they still have these items. We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy.
- [00:28]
David Kibbe
The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes. So you can never stop working.
- [00:34]
Jessica Matlin
The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly. Starting Monday, January 20th, Acast helps creators.
- [00:43]
Jen Sullivan
Launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
- [00:58]
Jessica Matlin
Hi, welcome to Fat Mascara, a podcast about beauty culture. It's still January. It's almost not January. I'm Jen Sullivan, your host. Your co host Jessica Matlin will be here momentarily for an amazing interview. Before we get into that, we love you and we love when you give us reviews. So if you have a second, this helps us, this helps us get more listeners so we can keep putting out the podcast for free. So head over to Apple and give us a review if you don't mind or on Spotify. You guys are loving this feature and I'm loving the feedback and the comments we're doing. But on Spotify, on each episode you can comment your feedback or you can give us a rating there as well. We would very much appreciate it. On that note, I would like to read you. Let's see our latest review on Apple. Here we go from Sampswifey 37. Okay. Sam Pease, wifey, amazing show. Five stars. Woo hoo. Thanks for all the information and laughs you bring to Us Weekly. Oh, you're welcome Sam P. Wifey, that's a good one. Thank you. That's gonna send me into the weekend in like a happy place. Thank you so much. You know what else is gonna send me into the weekend in a happy place? This interview. So a little background for this one I think would be helpful. We have David Kibbe here. Now if his name doesn't sound familiar, the term Kibbe types might sound familiar to you. That is actually not what he calls them, but here's what's going on. David Kibbe was an image consultant. Like he first got popular in the 1980s and then through the 80s and 90s he was featured regularly on all the TV shows, radio shows. It was like on Oprah, Sally, Jesse, Raphael. If these shows mean anything to you, I know how old you are. But then he came out with this book. In 1987 he published the book David Kibbe's Metamorphosis. Discover your image identity and dazzle only as you can. And so in this book, he gives people the tools to learn about their image identity. He will not say this, but I will say this. There are body types in there. They are color stories and color families. It's a typing system to kind of help you figure out how to dress for the body that you have, how to project the style that you want, how to find colors of makeup that work for you. These kind of systems that we just kind of know and love and have been part of American culture for a long time. Well, the book was hugely popular, but then nobody really heard from him for a couple years there. However, on social media, especially in the 2000 and twenties, a whole new generation discovered his work and started talking about the Kibbe types on social media. So now you might have seen or heard things like soft dramatic or the flamboyant gamine. These are some of the original Kibby types. So he actually wasn't even on social media at this point and it took off. But he recently, of course he'll tell us the story. Discovered that he has had somewhat of a resurgence. So he now has a new book out. He just published this in January, so it's brand new, which is also why we're having him on the show. David Kibbe's Power of a Guided Journey to help you discover your authentic style. So we're going to talk about what's in this book, how it's different from his original body types, but just also the work he does and like where this whole typing system came from, why we're not allowed to call them body types. The book itself is such a journey. There's lots of exercises so you can figure out what your, sorry, your image identity, not your type is. So if you're into that kind of thing, it's really fun. And I enjoyed the exercises and I just enjoy the perspective he brings because he's been doing this for quite a while. He's seen trends come and go and interestingly, the way that he thinks about style still feels relevant and fresh also. He's just a delight. I hope you enjoy him. So let's go into the studio. Jess is there. David is there. Let's get into it.
- [04:53]
Jen Sullivan
David Kibbe.
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David Kibbe
Hi.
- [04:58]
Jen Sullivan
Oh, my. I was just. I was just saying I wish that we were in the same room together. Cause I have so many questions. Lots of style questions, lots of fit questions, lots of color questions. Today is a fat mascara episode where we go beyond just traditional beauty. Beauty and it's more World of Style. So thank you for joining us. We have a fashion style royalty here.
- [05:21]
David Kibbe
Oh, no, I'm posing. Oh, my God. That's really nice.
- [05:26]
Jen Sullivan
I mean, but, you know, when I say fashion style, like, it's not like, oh, you're a designer, or like you're a fashion commentator. I can't really describe what you do. You call yourself a guru, a stylist, like an image coach. How do you describe your work?
- [05:39]
David Kibbe
Well, that is a really good question, because I have worked for years to try to figure that out myself, too, because it's not really something that. Certainly not that nobody ever did it, and I just created it along the way. So I was thinking about that a lot. I think maybe I'm a style mentor, because what we really do, I work with my wife now, and we do a transformation process. And part of that has to do with. Of course, a lot of it has to do with clothes. It all has to do with the appearance. But it's all about who the total person is. So you can't give someone style. Style is something that has to come from inside you. It's your voice, it's who you are, how you express yourself, how you tell the world, your story, how you connect with the world. It's how you claim your purpose. It's the visual expression of who you are. And it's not just how you're dressing. It's how you move. It's how you talk. It's your choices in life. That's all your style. So you can't give that to somebody. You can help them develop it. So if I could be your best friend, your confidant, and your mentor, someone who has a different viewpoint from the traditional idea that style is an unreachable thing that is outside of you, and you have to do all these other things to get there. And then it's never really you, even if you do those things. So it's a facade over you, which, if you stop and think about that, it makes you not feel very good about yourself. If you're saying, well, you're not okay unless you do this, this, this, and this, and these aren't you. So we're really. We've got this idealized idea outside of you, and we're trying to make you into sort of as best as we can, close to that, as we can. I just think that's like, for the birds, that was like, when I. That just didn't make any sense to me. And also, style is just a reflection or expression of identity, who we are. So it's really, you've got to start with the core of the person. And I'm all about this idea that we're all individuals and that everybody comes to this planet with a purpose. And to me, beauty is individuality. So that is every single person is unique. So my idea was, can't we get away from this idea of style or beauty being outside the self, but can it come from inside you? And can't we come up with a system that allows you to help understand what's really special about you?
- [08:08]
Jessica Matlin
Love a system.
- [08:08]
David Kibbe
Love a system and how you work with that? But see, it doesn't work if a system isn't there to help you as an individual. The problem with most systems is they're like algorithms. The thing about algorithms, I always say you style by algorithm as an oxymoron, because an algorithm tells you what you already know, what you already get. Like, if you buy a toothpick, a toothbrush online, you're going to get for the next 10 years, toothbrush ads. But you already bought a toothbrush. You don't need those. But if you're trying to. If that search for a toothbrush was about oral health, you're not going to get anything from that. So if you go to the core, you always have to go back to the beginning of the person. So I really look to the core of the person. I don't look necessarily for what's presented. I look for what can be. And it's all about where you start. If you start with the idea of self love, self acceptance, and that everybody is who they're supposed to be, then you just create out of that. So that's why I would say I like to be a style mentor. I help people develop their style. This term stylist, is a tricky thing because you cannot give a person style. You can help them discover their style, you can help them hone it, you can help them see things that they can't see. You do all of that.
- [09:23]
Jen Sullivan
So your approach is different than, like, you know, we talk to stylists, and when working around stylists, they come in with the big rack. And this is not no shade toward stylists, but they might be like, okay, I'm really oversimplifying. Of course, a great stylist is thinking about all those things that you're talking about, what the person brings forth and, like, what's right for them. But you're not a stylist. Like, you're coming in with your big rack, and this Is this designer, and this is hot. And this is what I see you. And you're really doing more inner work.
- [09:55]
David Kibbe
It's inner and outer. I think my approach is that there has to be an integration of the inner and the outer, because we're definitely. We start with the outer because that's fixed. You know, to try to define someone's inner self, what they call an essence or Persona or something like that, that's a very ephemeral thing. And it changes. I mean, we all grow constantly. We are all growing, so we need to have a place that. But your outside is fixed. I mean, you have a certain type of coloring. You have a certain type of bone structure. Clothes hang on the body a certain way because of the way you're structured. I like to tell people they're a painting and a sculpture, and your coloring is like a painting, and your shape is like a sculpture. So how do we take a palette, which should be a whole huge range of colors that works in harmony with what you have so that you can paint with that. And how do we learn to drape around the sculpture?
- [10:44]
Jen Sullivan
Well, let's get to color and painting in a little bit. Like, I want to just take it back to the beginning philosophy for a second. Okay. You're really thinking about style as, like, an expression. I love the way you said that. You said, like, it's an expression of your inner self. It's the choices you make. It's not just, like, what's in your shopping bag, but it's maybe how you speak, how you carry yourself, what music you listen to, where you're going on Saturday.
- [11:07]
David Kibbe
Oh, that's so important. That's exactly right. Yeah. Because you want to get. It's about your dreams. You see, the thing about it is, unfortunately, we're all very limited by the things that we've been taught about ourselves. Sometimes it's mothers have the best intentions, but oftentimes what mothers put on their children, you know, and society and then social media today, it's all about what you're supposed to do or this trend or that trend. And you learn all these things that you then integrate are wrong with you. So we have to get away from that. So there's no way to be objective about ourselves. That's a false constraint. All right? So if you can forget that and think, you're never going to see yourself objectively. So don't even try. So let's go to what's really authentic about you, because style has to be authentic, or it's not style. It's Just a look. All right, so let's go to what's really, really true about you and what is true about you. The way you experience things. Because we experience life in a sensory way. So you just think, if you are walking down this by a bakery and you smell fresh bread, okay, well, that's not one thing. Every single person probably loves it, but they experience in a different way. But that is your experience. That's authentically yours. That's not subjected to. Somebody told you you were supposed to do this or that or do it another way. So you learn to take the things that are authentically you, which is your experience. I'm going back to what you said about situation. And then those are the things that unfold. And if you understand that, then that starts to lead you to really your own authentic way of experiencing life which brings you back to your purpose. And your dreams are authentic to you. Your dreams are not there because someone told you you're not supposed to do this. Your dreams are there because it touches on your passion. So that's unadulterated. So you hook into that. And then, you know, you use the framework. Like, if we're talking about clothes, we're talking about your body. You have a certain body. We can't make Katharine Hepburn into Marilyn Monroe. You cannot do that. That was very foolish. People try it all the time and it doesn't work. But Katharine Hepburn has all the same feelings as Marilyn Monroe. You know, it's the integration of the two. So it's what you said about situation. We all experience our own situation in a very specific way. And we have an intention and we have our dreams. So if your dreams tell you what your soul really wants to do and what you came to this world to do that's how you get to them. So you let that be like your carrot. And then you take that. Once you have some technique and you learn about your body, your clothing, whatever we're talking about you take those dreams and then you let them lead you to unexpected places. Because the greatest thing today about clothes is there is everything available. Because clothes are really different, like from when I started. They're not the same at all. That's why you can't use same approach. We can get into that later.
- [14:04]
Jessica Matlin
Yeah, let's get into your approach and how it's changed.
- [14:07]
Jen Sullivan
Let's talk about Kibby types.
- [14:09]
Jessica Matlin
Well, so that's. I read your new book and I was thinking, he's not saying types anymore.
- [14:14]
David Kibbe
I never said types. I never used that word.
- [14:16]
Jessica Matlin
So why do. Does that Bother you that everybody calls them Kibby types? You know, that's how kind of how like we grew up with you, you know, We.
- [14:24]
David Kibbe
Yes. And also, I mean, this is a social media phenomenon. You know, I didn't in the beginning, I wasn't really involved in social media at all in the beginning when it was happening because I was too busy. And what happened was an older client of mine came and said, you know, I'm in this online group and there's several thousand people in it and, you know, we have a whole thing about you there and they would love to hear from you.
- [14:47]
Jen Sullivan
So wait, were you like. Were you like. What are you talking about?
- [14:50]
David Kibbe
Like, completely. Completely. And so I went and looked and it took me to this community board, which there was a whole library of me and my work on it. And then it took me to Facebook. I wasn't even on Facebook and I'm still not on it personally. I have a public figure page, but I worked through my wife's page personally. Okay. There were 23 pages with my name on them that I had no idea were even there. And everybody had their own idea of it. And I mean, I understand why they get to that, but that's an old fashioned way of doing things.
- [15:20]
Jessica Matlin
Did it feel derivative, what they had come up with?
- [15:23]
David Kibbe
It felt like they were doing exactly the opposite of what I'd been telling them all along, you know.
- [15:27]
Jessica Matlin
How so?
- [15:28]
David Kibbe
Well, people hadn't even read the original book. They'd read excerpts from the book. So everybody wants.
- [15:32]
Jessica Matlin
You don't read. It's fine.
- [15:33]
David Kibbe
Well, that's very true. Gets more so. Oh, you're so right. But people want to know what they are. So, you know, and it's a great thing to know your type because that sounds like an easy thing to do, but also you're used to doing it because that's what you read when they call you a fruit, which is like, how awful.
- [15:48]
Jessica Matlin
He's talk, guys. He's talking about the apple, the pear, the ruler, these body types that.
- [15:53]
David Kibbe
No, no, no, you're not a pear. That is not. There is no such thing. No, you don't.
- [15:57]
Jessica Matlin
You know, in the 1980s, though, that was how a lot of people learned about dressing. Where did the fruits come from?
- [16:05]
David Kibbe
Well, it has to do with the way that old silhouettes used to be, because silhouettes used to be constructed outside of the body. They were structured. So like in the 40s, it would come every 10 years or so from. Usually from Paris. So there was a silhouette of the decade, like in the book. I Talk from togas to flappers and you see each like, well, in the beginning it's a lot more than a decade, but later on it's like the 30s is one thing. The 40s, the 50s, like in the 40s you had those powered shoulders and a slimmed down silhouette. That's because of the war. So people wanted to have that strength feeling and because of the war rations, so there wasn't fabric available. So it had to be skinnier. So that's how you got that look. Well, in the late forties, after the war, Christian Dior hooked into this need for the world to have this huge sigh of relief. Fabric became available, rationing was gone. And also people just wanted to party. So that's when he came up with what they called the new look, which was the reverse. It was a cinched in waist, very artificially cinched in waist and yards of fabric. And sometimes the hips were even padded. That's how big it was. So we went from those are structured silhouettes.
- [17:09]
Jen Sullivan
Somebody padded my hips, I would die. Like, seriously, what freak.
- [17:18]
David Kibbe
Let me tell you something. I almost never met a woman that doesn't think her hips are too big. I can tell you stories about that from people that are like, you know, toothpicks. But so Anyway, in the 80s, stretch started to be introduced slowly into fabric. Lycra, elastic and things like that, which even if it isn't, it changed fabric completely, invented all these fabrics that didn't even used to exist. And even when it's not there, the fabrics are lighter weight. So they drape around the body a different way.
- [17:45]
Jessica Matlin
Much differently.
- [17:45]
David Kibbe
Yeah. So today a silhouette is a combination of the body and the clothes. It used to be the silhouette was fixed, so you had to shoe. You worn yourself into it. So in a way, that's basically where those fruit things and balancing out and symmetry came from.
- [18:01]
Jessica Matlin
So this was culture trying to get used to the new fabrics. Like, how do we do this now?
- [18:05]
David Kibbe
People don't know it yet. They really. And this is why we're going back, really are people, you know, like online people have no idea about modern fashion. They think it's trends and it's not. You know, trends are recycled if you live long enough. Like my mother always used to say, don't throw anything away because it's going to come back. And we'd be wearing something and she'd go, oh, we used to wear that. It's really true. There isn't anything new. I mean, everything today was there in the 70s or the 60s. Really, truly a Little bit different version of it, but not much.
- [18:33]
Jessica Matlin
So when you went into this Facebook group or when you saw how people had co opted this concept that you.
- [18:39]
David Kibbe
Came up with, it was a nightmare.
- [18:43]
Jessica Matlin
I remember at one point someone was like, the 13 Kibby types. And Jess and I were like, there's 13. What I've seen that there were.
- [18:50]
David Kibbe
It was different because I was moving away from. Okay, then I wrote that book. I started doing what I'm doing in 1982. All right. And then I wrote that book pretty well. I started right away. It took about four years to write it, and it was published in 87, I believe. And right around that time was when things were changing. I remember the day that these two women that were publicizing, they worked for Charles Jourdan, which was a very famous shoe line, and they were publicizing. They were introducing lycra and pantyhose to America at that point. And they came into my office and they presented it to me because they wanted to do a promotion. And it was a huge deal because it just changed everything. And so it was starting to change then. So I had written the book. When we're talking about that old silhouette, the structured silhouette, you really did have to deal with what was available. Even if you were, like, very curvy and it was all tailored clothes, we had to fit you into those. So the only thing you could do was sort of more. You would try to shape them as best you could. There were ways of doing that. And then it was more like sort of a personality. Like there used to be a thing called clothing personality, but that's kind of where that was. And I was moving into something new because I was trying to introduce a new way of working to people that wasn't so rigid, but it was tricky. You only are able to do what's available in the stores. You know, if they aren't creating them.
- [20:11]
Jessica Matlin
You can only do people sometimes, like a rule. It gives them guidelines.
- [20:15]
David Kibbe
Yeah, well, guidelines are different from rules. You see, all art, and I consider style to be your personal art. All art has requirements. You want to play the piano, you've got to learn your finger exercises, you've got to learn your scales, you've got to learn hand position, you've got to do that. Can't just sit down and play Rachmaninoff. You have to do all that. But those are requirements. But they're not rules, okay? I'm against the rules because they put you in a box, you know, and the putting you in a box is the rules. Reverse of style.
- [20:42]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah.
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Jessica Matlin
So is that what bothered you about how people had like made you?
- [20:46]
David Kibbe
Yeah, because I created to free people from these things.
- [20:48]
Jen Sullivan
But you thought that people thought they were rules.
- [20:51]
David Kibbe
Yeah. Well, you know why? Because they wanted to go to the end of the story rather than go through the whole journey. See, style is a journey. You start out, you're a little child, you know, and you're dressed by your parents. Then you know, like let's talk about girls, mainly six year old, they start to really get creative and it's so much fun to watch them walk down the street because they'll have every possible color on. They'll have like striped tights and tutus and you know, it's just amazing. And because they're individuating, then you get to your teenagers, which is all about rebellion. You know, you don't want to dress like your parents, but you still want to dress like each other. So it's still peer group, but it's starting. Then you get to around mid-20s or something when you're life really changes and also the brain changes and you have a different need. So style keeps evolving through life and it has to be like that. So if you put yourself in a box, that's it, you're done, you're dead. And you know that's the end of your story. But that's not the way life is. I don't have any idea how old you are, but you're different from when you were 15. And think about you're going to be different when you're 30 and you're going to be different when you're 40. And in my view you get better and better and better because the there's more of you. And that's good, that is a good thing. When you have experience, you have so much more to draw on that you can't even know in the beginning. So people are more rigid as they're younger because part of it is they want to be like everybody else in their peer group, but they want to be somewhat different and they certainly want to be different from their parents. But if you think about rules and you think about trends, trends and style are the opposite. Because trends mean it's trending. Everybody's doing it. That's why we call it a trend. Style is about you as an individual person. And I created this system to be like the system for you as a person to develop your own style. So these names, they're not boxes to put you in. It's part of the technique to give you focus Foreign.
- [22:54]
Jen Sullivan
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- [23:17]
Jessica Matlin
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- [23:53]
Jen Sullivan
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- [24:17]
Jessica Matlin
Jess, I know we've talked about Olive and June nail polish on the podcast, but the brand doesn't just do polish. They make the whole act of getting manicure easier with their systems.
- [24:25]
Jen Sullivan
The Olive and June mani system has completely changed the way things are rolling at my house. Game changer. When I have the mani system, they look fresh, they look clean, they look polished. No pun intended. And actually some people have thought that I actually went to the salon and got them done, which was high praise.
- [24:43]
Jessica Matlin
Oh my God. Same. The polish itself is great and the color lasts really long without chipping. But the system has it all. They have tools. The remover, the cleanup brush, the file, the cuticle serum, the top coat, your choice of six polished colors. Best thing in the box though is the poppy. That's the thing you call the doohickey, but it's called the poppy. And you pop it on the brush's top and it makes it easier to hold and balance so you can do both hands perfectly even if you're not like ambidextrous I'm also obsessed with their Valentine's Day mini polish set they have right now. You get bottles of four sequin heart polishes. You can wear them on their own or as top coats. The Cupid who shade is so cute. It has tiny black hearts and like little sequins. It looks like fishnets over your nails. It's great. If that sounds good to you. They also do press ons. They have quick dry polishes. Just go check out their site. Visit oliveandjude.com mascara for 20% off your first system. That's Olive and June O L I V E a n d J-U-N-E.com mascara m a s c a r a oliveinjune.com mascara for 20% off your first manicure system.
- [25:50]
Jen Sullivan
Can we talk about some of those names? Because. Yeah, I think that will help people understand what the world of kibbe is all about. What are some of those names? You've got a bunch, but what are some of the. What are some of your favorites?
- [26:02]
David Kibbe
Okay, this is. You're talking about. You're talking about the image identities. Yes. Okay, so let's talk about that term first of all, because that sort of gives you the whole thing. Image identity. That's a different thing from type or body type. Type means you're of something that already exists. Image identity means this is the image of your identity, your identity as a person. That's the hogestalt of you.
- [26:26]
Jessica Matlin
What's your image identity, David?
- [26:29]
David Kibbe
Okay, well, I would be the male equivalent. I think we need new names for the men of what's called a theatrical romantic.
- [26:35]
Jen Sullivan
That is one of the types. That's one of the identities. Sorry, sorry. No type.
- [26:38]
Jessica Matlin
No type.
- [26:39]
David Kibbe
Yeah. Think of them as like image identities. That's okay.
- [26:41]
Jessica Matlin
What is a theatrical romantic?
- [26:43]
David Kibbe
Well, okay, so you want to talk about me or you want to talk about women?
- [26:47]
Jessica Matlin
Well, in general.
- [26:49]
David Kibbe
Okay. Well, in a woman, a theatrical romantic is like a femme fatale. So she is moderate to small. Her bone structure tends to be more delicate. She's curved, dominant, but she has a little sharpness. So Vivien Leigh was the most golden age archetype of that, if you want to call her that. Or someone like Ann Margret is like that.
- [27:07]
Jessica Matlin
I love these references. It's a very particular time period. The references.
- [27:11]
David Kibbe
Well, talk about celebrities and the trap of that. Maybe a little later today you're talking about Ariana Grande.
- [27:17]
Jen Sullivan
Ok.
- [27:18]
David Kibbe
If you want somebody else from a little older. A woman of color is Dorothy Dainbridge. Did you ever see Carmen? That movie? Carmen?
- [27:25]
Jessica Matlin
No.
- [27:25]
Jen Sullivan
But we know who Dorothy Danger is.
- [27:27]
David Kibbe
She's phenomenal. Gorgeous. And the clothes in that movie can be worn today. So that has a little bit of a retro style. It's feminine but sexy. I think the best way to talk about the image identity is to go with the extremes first. And how I get to them is a combination. It really is what we call your Yin Yang balance.
- [27:44]
Jessica Matlin
Yes. You have a whole workbook in the book to help people figure out their Yin Yang balance.
- [27:49]
David Kibbe
You get to the image identity by doing all these games that help you then experience yourself in a way so that you're not limited, because it's really hard to look at yourself and say, well, are my shoulders wide or are they narrower? Or. That's not the way it works because you can't see it that way. But you get to a combination of Yin Yang balance and personal line. That's how we get to it. But the extremes are the dramatic and the romantic. So the dramatic is a very angular type of a person. The romantic is very curvy. Okay. The two old extremes of that would be Katharine Hepburn versus Marilyn Monroe. All right.
- [28:19]
Jessica Matlin
And when you think everybody knows those references.
- [28:21]
David Kibbe
Exactly. That's what we use.
- [28:22]
Jen Sullivan
I have a question, and I don't know if I'm, like, preempting this too much, but, like, I read the book. If you're. You had a plus size for every version.
- [28:33]
David Kibbe
Yes.
- [28:33]
Jen Sullivan
But if you are not a stick, are you kind of more likely to be a romantic?
- [28:41]
David Kibbe
No, not at all. No, no, no. Because you're both structured. Like, okay, let's say you're someone like Katharine Hepburn because she's very bony and angular. You know, that's true. Tilda Swinton, if you want to think of somebody today. Okay, great.
- [28:52]
Jen Sullivan
Is she dramatic? What's her type?
- [28:54]
David Kibbe
Oh, yeah. Things can be scary dramatic. I adore her, but, you know, she's a person. All right, so if she's very straight. So if she puts on weight, she's going to still be straight. It's going to be wider. But if you're voluptuous and hourglass and curvy, like Marilyn Monroe. Okay. She could be stick thin. Like, let me see. Well, Sabrina Carpenter. Not Sabrina Carpenter.
- [29:18]
Jessica Matlin
Fruits are easier, but I love it. You're seeing the person for their whole person and all the thing that makes them them. Not a number on a scale, not a measurement of a weight.
- [29:30]
David Kibbe
You won the prize. Yes, because that's what we are.
- [29:33]
Jessica Matlin
It's a hard thing to do, though.
- [29:34]
Jen Sullivan
You have to kind of person, like, would, like. You don't know. If you saw Sabrina Carpenter walking down the street, not in her little, like, cutie getup, would you be, like.
- [29:43]
David Kibbe
She'd still be a little darling. She would be. There's no question about it. Could she.
- [29:46]
Jessica Matlin
I think she's 411. Yes.
- [29:48]
David Kibbe
Yeah. And she's got that darling face with the big eyes. You know, that's like a Betty Boop or Leslie Caron was like that. You know, that's Fiji. She's light that. You know, she just is. You could dress her in any way you want to, but she'd still be that. She just.
- [30:00]
Jessica Matlin
What is her image identity? Sorry?
- [30:02]
David Kibbe
She's a soft. Sabrina Carpenter. She's a soft gamine. Gamines are combination of opposites. So they're little, but they're angular. Or they might be.
- [30:09]
Jessica Matlin
David, I tried to do. You're gonna. Yeah. Can you, like, look at Jess? Like, can you.
- [30:12]
David Kibbe
No, no.
- [30:12]
Jessica Matlin
Look at both of us.
- [30:13]
Jen Sullivan
Don't put both of us. Both of us. Because you can't see, like, you haven't. You can't see what Jen and I look like from the chin down, really? Can you tell what Jen.
- [30:22]
David Kibbe
No, but I see your face is. I cannot. No, no. But that's why we have to have teeth.
- [30:26]
Jessica Matlin
Oh, he's got to be in person because he's got to get the whole. He does.
- [30:29]
David Kibbe
Because online is. Yeah, okay. This is the other thing. People try to do this from photos. You don't understand. Photos don't look like a person. They're a flat, flat representation and they're always distorted.
- [30:40]
Jessica Matlin
Look at my notes after I did the book so far. I have vertical balance. Dramatic or flamboyant? Gamine winter.
- [30:46]
David Kibbe
Well, I can give you some clues. How tall are you?
- [30:49]
Jessica Matlin
Five. Five. Four and a half.
- [30:51]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah. I'm gonna say Jen's five.
- [30:53]
Jessica Matlin
Four.
- [30:53]
Jen Sullivan
Yes.
- [30:53]
David Kibbe
You know, you could be any. If you're vertical, vertical would be dominant. Then you could be any of those. It's possible. It's hard to imagine.
- [31:00]
Jen Sullivan
I think she's dramatic. I think Jen's dramatic.
- [31:02]
Jessica Matlin
I think I am dramatic.
- [31:03]
David Kibbe
Why was in the face? That would make sense to me.
- [31:06]
Jen Sullivan
And she is a very straight line.
- [31:07]
Jessica Matlin
She's very slim, quite an athletic build.
- [31:10]
David Kibbe
Yes, that makes sense to me. I would say that's very exotic and gorgeous and sultry.
- [31:16]
Jessica Matlin
Okay. So do you walk through life, David, and, like, are you constantly looking at people in their auras and trying to come up with their image identity?
- [31:24]
David Kibbe
No, I shut it off. That would be horrible. When I look at. But I do like to. Can you imagine talking about a busman's holiday? I sit. I have this Starbucks on my corner and it's got a great window on Columbus Avenue. And I just sit and watch people go by. I like to see what people are trying to do. That's what I look for. You know, I look for what their intention is. Because I want to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. This is why we call what I do love based beauty. It comes from the heart and the soul. And it's about what's everything before really when we're talking about these types and all that is based on negativity. Because it's all saying there's something that you're not that is the most negative thing you can see. Sister too.
- [32:03]
Jessica Matlin
I'm curious. Did you update your book or redo? Because there's some things from the original sort of to own back your name and tell people. That's not what I've ever been about. This is what it's about.
- [32:13]
David Kibbe
That's true. But also working online, trying to help people. Okay. Because after I found that out about online. Fast forward a little bit. These three wonderful people wanted to. They knew there were problems and they got in touch with me and they wanted to create a group in Facebook that was based really on what the truth of it really is. Okay. So they created this group called Strictly Kibbe. And they invited me to come in. I'm a guest. I do not even remember Strictly Kibbe.
- [32:38]
Jen Sullivan
That sounds like a show.
- [32:40]
Jessica Matlin
I love it.
- [32:41]
David Kibbe
It should be. Okay, so if you know any producers, we're ready to go Strictly Kibbe because it really is so that people are not introducing other ideas so that they could really learn what it's about. And so I started seeing what people were doing and why they're doing it. And then, you know, like I've invited into all these other groups that are around and they ask for help and I see what they're doing. So I spent the better part almost 15 years online looking to see what people are doing. Also knowing how things have changed and that you have to change today. You have to do it. You cannot do things the old way, you know, and the old book is based on the older way. The philosophy was the same. But you're dealing with a different landscape. You can't do that. So I spent all that time trying to figure out ways to help people and what would give them a better way of doing this that could actually online is all do it yourself. The idea that you can tell other people what they are is foolish because it takes real skill to do that, because you really have to.
- [33:40]
Jessica Matlin
Well, we get. I understand that it's. Yeah, I don't think that that's an easy skill, but I do have to ask. There's a concept that has stayed the same that Jess and I actually are really curious, and that's the colors. Yeah. This idea of seasons that was around in the 80s in your book. Now, look, why are the seasons. Why have humans latched onto that way of thinking about color and what's that all about?
- [34:02]
David Kibbe
Well, because color is a very ephemeral thing, you know, and you need something to work with, but again, it's been distorted. No, I was a part of that. I started all those years ago with.
- [34:10]
Jessica Matlin
Who started the seasons thing.
- [34:12]
Jen Sullivan
Wasn't that Carol Jackson?
- [34:14]
David Kibbe
No, max factor in 1918. And then. Okay, you want to hear the history of this? Yes. Yes. Okay. We wear makeup or you wear makeup today because of Max Factor. He created cosmetics. He really did. And he was working in the movies when it was still silent film. And he had to start developing color products for women. And what he did was he was a chemist, and so he developed the formulas, and he found that there were these four groups of skin tones and that two of them are warm and two of them are cool in order for the cosmetics to look natural on them. So you got to remember these are techniques for these beauty and style products. It isn't necessarily just the person. It's what you do to the person to make the person look more like themselves on camera. That's where it started. Okay. So he developed the four palates and how they were. I mean, the idea of the warm and the cool and the. That there are four groups. Okay. Then in the 20s, there's a man named Johann Eaton, who was from the Bauhaus school in Germany, who was this radical color theorist. And they eventually kicked him out of the Bauhaus school because he was weird. But he developed the concept of seasons because he also noticed that his painters, when their work was successful, were painting what he called the subjective palette. And it just became a poetic way of describing those four palettes. So it started with makeup because they had to make it look natural for color film as it was beginning to come in little by little, and then it progressed through that, and then they've been doing it for years. They were doing it on the west coast, but Carol Jackson popularized it. But I started with Color Me Beautiful in the very, very beginning. I was one of the first Original people that did that.
- [35:51]
Jessica Matlin
What year are we talking about? You were a consultant.
- [35:54]
David Kibbe
Age 81 was.
- [35:55]
Jessica Matlin
So you used her system when you were working with clients?
- [35:58]
David Kibbe
I worked with her. There were. Yeah. Because that was the year it started. And she started training people in 81. I was like, in the second or third group of people that she did. That's how it started. And then, you know, it was so hugely popular, you cannot even imagine.
- [36:10]
Jessica Matlin
No, we were around then. We know.
- [36:12]
David Kibbe
Well, it gave you a way of working with color. It works on you. But you do have warmer school skin tone. That's the truth. If you want your makeup to look natural, for instance, it's got to blend into the skin. People don't do it that way. And they get used to seeing, like, bright pink lips on redheads and things, and it looks awful.
- [36:26]
Jessica Matlin
If you really understand Jess is a redhead. Have you ever worn a bright pink lip, Jess?
- [36:32]
Jen Sullivan
Of course I have, because I wanted to be part of the trend.
- [36:36]
David Kibbe
Now, you know. You know better. So you don't. No, but I mean, there's shades of pink that you can wear, but I mean, I'm talking about exactly that. The trend kind of thing.
- [36:44]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah. It has such a hold now, though. It's so funny on a certain sort, a certain customer, a certain social audience.
- [36:53]
Jessica Matlin
It's like astrology, right?
- [36:55]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah. Why do you think this is going on?
- [36:58]
David Kibbe
Okay. Because if you ever had your chart done by somebody really good and I'm not talking. Okay, then that's a really amazing thing, because they're really brilliant and they really know some things. And if you stop and think about that, everything is energy. I mean, there is something to say. Like, the stars are all moving through the sky, and their life is always happening up there. And if you start to think, well, everything, energy. And you're born, you know, at a certain energy, and you have a certain energy that can have something to it. But that's a lot different from reading today's horoscope in the paper. But that's the way people use color analysis. They use it as a box, you know, and it's very rigid. It's not how it should be. You need to know your coloring. I say, like, you're a painting. You're not a blank slate. Nature made you as a masterpiece. You have beautiful skin, you have gorgeous hair, you have gorgeous eyes. And it is a unit. And if you can understand how it works, and then you can understand, well, let's use a complementary palette. That's all. But that palette should have thousands of shades in It. You can wear a version of almost every color there is if we get you in the right family. But, you see, I feel instead of putting you in a box and saying, well, this little scarf looks better on you, this. That doesn't mean anything because nobody runs around in a little square of color. How do you paint with that? You know, it's like a painter has a palette. They mix colors together, and then they create out of that, but they use whatever palette they're using to do it. So that's what you're seeing. Season should be. It's a springboard.
- [38:15]
Jessica Matlin
So if I want to wear blue, because my style is blue and I really feel blue, then I go to my season and find which blue.
- [38:22]
David Kibbe
Well, yeah, but I would say, here's how we shop. By the time we get to the point where we're in the stores, we know these things about you. So we know your palette, and we know your image identity. So we have a framework of things that will work, and we have a framework of things that won't work. So then what we want to do is what I call shopportunity. All the diamonds in the rough that you don't know are there, but are there.
- [38:43]
Jen Sullivan
Can I come to the shopping trip? Because I got to see this.
- [38:46]
Jessica Matlin
Do you go to the makeup counter with the client?
- [38:49]
David Kibbe
Well, I have my own line of makeup, so when we have our client, it's just for my clients. So I have a system of working with makeup that coordinates to their colors. And I believe that your eyes, cheeks, and lips have to be a unit because they're blended on your. It's a painting on your face. They have to blend together. The problem with, like, coloring of lipstick by itself doesn't have anything to do with the blush or the eye makeup. It doesn't have anything to do with what you're wearing. It doesn't work.
- [39:11]
Jessica Matlin
You want it all. It's like going back to the painting.
- [39:13]
David Kibbe
Harmony.
- [39:14]
Jessica Matlin
It's harmony.
- [39:15]
David Kibbe
So the first thing you do once you know those things, you go to the size of the person on the rack. You can eliminate some colors right away, because if you know, like, oh, yeah.
- [39:23]
Jessica Matlin
We all know those colors. This is one of the exercises in the books, by the way. That was an easy exercise.
- [39:29]
David Kibbe
Okay, great.
- [39:29]
Jessica Matlin
I think you called it your ick.
- [39:30]
David Kibbe
Your yuck, your yuck color.
- [39:32]
Jen Sullivan
Jen, what's your yuck color?
- [39:34]
Jessica Matlin
Oh, beige. A mauvey beige.
- [39:36]
David Kibbe
Okay. And so what I do, I have this other thing that's not in the book. What do I call it?
- [39:40]
Jessica Matlin
I call it Wait, I don't know. Jess's. What's. David, what's your yuck color?
- [39:43]
David Kibbe
I don't have any yuck color.
- [39:45]
Jessica Matlin
Oh, of course.
- [39:46]
David Kibbe
I really do.
- [39:46]
Jessica Matlin
Jess, what about you?
- [39:48]
Jen Sullivan
My yuck color is something that, like, I'm going to segue to the. To the next question. Dave, you come back to the shopping trip. Maybe this will fold the colors that are the colors that should be yuck colors to me. Cause they don't look good on me. Are, like, the colors that I feel, like, spiritually connected to.
- [40:05]
David Kibbe
Oh, well, give me an example.
- [40:06]
Jessica Matlin
Yeah.
- [40:07]
Jen Sullivan
Okay, so, like, let's be specific. One of, like, my favorite color combinations is kind of like aqua and sort of like a cool pink. Like, I love these, like, cool pastels.
- [40:18]
David Kibbe
That's like, Caribbean colors.
- [40:20]
Jen Sullivan
I love Caribbean colors. I have this very orange cast.
- [40:25]
Jessica Matlin
To me, she's an autumn for sure.
- [40:28]
David Kibbe
I'll tell you something. Yeah, you are. That's true. But whoever told you that you can't wear aqua is totally wrong. That's what. That's part of the palette. See, there's thousands of colors in the palette everybody can wear.
- [40:39]
Jen Sullivan
But it's a broader question, David.
- [40:41]
David Kibbe
Like, what do you do if you like colors that you think you're not supposed to wear?
- [40:44]
Jessica Matlin
Yes.
- [40:44]
Jen Sullivan
And even, like, the identities. Like, let's say, like, I did my identities, and, like, spoiler alert. I think I'm, like, a romantic. Well, I'm definitely romantic, but I'm something romantic.
- [40:55]
David Kibbe
Soft romantic, let's say that's true. And I don't know that that is true. Okay, your definition is wrong, because let's say you are a theatrical romantic. That's not a box that you can do anything. Like, you could wear. You can wear a tailored suit. We've just got to work with your body. You can wear a jumpsuit.
- [41:09]
Jessica Matlin
You can wear theatrical romantic. Feels like she's supposed to be in a flowy, drapey dress.
- [41:14]
David Kibbe
Okay, so Susan, my wife, is a theatrical romantic. And she. It runs around in, like, a sweater and tights, but it's fitted and it looks great. And, you know, she'll have, like, a swing coat or something like that if it's cold. She looks fabulous. You know, she doesn't go around in evening gowns. She has some, and she looks great in them.
- [41:30]
Jen Sullivan
And maybe, you know, grocery store, like an evening gown. Excuse me. I'm a drastic romantic.
- [41:34]
David Kibbe
Okay. You want to know one thing? I'll try to.
- [41:36]
Jessica Matlin
Romantic makes you think that, you know.
- [41:38]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah, I'm just like, what if I want to wear sneakers? And like kind of baggy jeans and like a baggy shirt.
- [41:43]
David Kibbe
Well, you can do anything you want. First of all, there's no police around. I don't go around arresting people. Okay? And if you want to do that, that's. That's fine. But when you're doing that, you're hiding.
- [41:52]
Jessica Matlin
Which maybe she wants to play with a masculine identity one day, you know, like, it's baggy.
- [41:57]
David Kibbe
So then if that were true, and I'm not saying you are a theatrical romantic, just say we're pretending. Okay, so then you do like Marlene Dietrich used to do, you know, she wore those tuxedos, but they were fitted to her body and they're very sexy.
- [42:09]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [42:10]
Jessica Matlin
High waisted pants, top hat, and she'd.
- [42:13]
David Kibbe
Wear a tie and. But it would be fitted and curvy. This is a way to do anything you want. It's not about that. It's about understanding what you are. That's really what we're talking about. Your image identity is. It's the end of the road. It's to give you focus. Because if you are a theatrical romantic, okay, you could dress in that outfit that I just said, but if you were Katharine Hepburn, you wouldn't wear that same version of that. She'd wear a different version of that.
- [42:37]
Jen Sullivan
I get you.
- [42:38]
David Kibbe
Same thing with the colors. Everybody can wear light, bright, and dark. You see, one of the things I hate about the way they do some of the colors is they're so limited. Like, they'll talk about autumn.
- [42:47]
Jessica Matlin
Do you mean online? When people, like, make it very derivative and they're like, here's your colors. Buy.
- [42:51]
David Kibbe
It's the way people are trained to do it today too. It's too much of a box. Like, if you look at the autumn palette that people show you online, it looks like mud.
- [42:58]
Jen Sullivan
I know. That's why I hate autumn.
- [43:00]
David Kibbe
Okay, but let me tell you something. That's not what autumn looks like. Have you ever been to New England in the fall and seen the trees? It's a blaze.
- [43:06]
Jessica Matlin
It's vibrant. It's much more vibrant.
- [43:08]
David Kibbe
The autumn palette has the fiery hot colors of fall. It has the rainforest colors, those brilliant rainforest colors. And it also has a hazy sort of desert colors. It's a gorgeous palette. This is like a cliche style. Is not a cliche color. Should not be explicit.
- [43:25]
Jen Sullivan
This looks like mud. It does. It's like punter green pumpkin.
- [43:41]
Jessica Matlin
Do you find it's hard. It's hard for people to do this online too, because we're looking at these little phone Screens.
- [43:46]
David Kibbe
It doesn't give. Yeah, yeah. It's very hard to do that. I mean, some people are very obvious. You know that. Like, you would know you're an autumn, and you would know you're a winter. There's.
- [43:53]
Jessica Matlin
You'll be pretty easy.
- [43:54]
David Kibbe
Yeah. And that's like. But a lot of people are not. And also, the colors they use, the.
- [43:58]
Jessica Matlin
Springs and the summers, those are the hearts ones.
- [44:02]
Jen Sullivan
It's the same girl. It's the same girl.
- [44:06]
Jessica Matlin
No one's cool. One's warm. Spring's warm.
- [44:08]
David Kibbe
And spring is warm. And summer's cool.
- [44:10]
Jessica Matlin
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I got very into this.
- [44:12]
David Kibbe
Okay, but there's another. Like, the summer palette they put online sometimes, too, is just so dull. But that's like summer. Like, if you look at the book, did you see the hearts of the palette in the book?
- [44:22]
Jessica Matlin
Yes. You used fabric squares rather than just flat colors.
- [44:26]
David Kibbe
That's right. But I'm talking about the color explosion. That was helpful because the color explosion.
- [44:31]
Jessica Matlin
Oh, you mean the psychedelic little two page things? I wasn't sure what those were, David, to be honest.
- [44:36]
David Kibbe
That's the heart of the palette. It tells it right before. This is where, you know, you take time. The book explains it. If you take the heart of the palette and you explode the colors through the heavens, that gives you a sense of the range of colors that each palette represents. See, here's the thing about it.
- [44:50]
Jessica Matlin
Are you pulling up the pictures, Jess?
- [44:51]
Jen Sullivan
No, no, no. I'm looking at the questions.
- [44:53]
David Kibbe
But here's the thing about color, all right? Color is not this fixed thing. Color is light that reflects the back of our eye through the retina and passes through all these little cones that we have in our eyes. And there are millions of cones in each eye, and they're all shaped differently. And no two people have the same. And your two eyes are not the same. So no two people see color alike. I always say that you should not say what I see. You should say what you perceive. And so that's the idea of categorizing it as crazy. You want to give people freedom, not a box. So I could give you. I could show you colors in the autumn palette that you will fall in love with. And they'll be very like, aqua is a great. I have an aqua suit in linen that I wear when we go to the islands that I love. You would love it.
- [45:37]
Jessica Matlin
Are you a fall? Are you an Autumn?
- [45:38]
David Kibbe
I'm an autumn, yeah.
- [45:40]
Jessica Matlin
Okay.
- [45:40]
Jen Sullivan
Okay.
- [45:41]
Jessica Matlin
Well, but to what end are we doing this, by the way? I'd like if someone's listening to this and, like, why would I do this? To look better in clothes. Look better in makeup?
- [45:49]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah. Like, who needs. Who needs this in their life? Like, what are we? What's the self?
- [45:55]
David Kibbe
It depends on what you want to do with your life, if you want to fulfill your potential. You know, you came here as an individual. You came here with a purpose, and part of who you are is who you look like.
- [46:06]
Jen Sullivan
Wow, way to say it. Like, right to the point. It is part of.
- [46:10]
Jessica Matlin
Yeah, because some people do say it's irrelevant.
- [46:13]
David Kibbe
No, they're wrong. You know, that's because people. You know, there's marketing under all of this. You know, you gotta understand, there's always been companies that produce things, that want people to buy things. And today, conglomerates own all the fashion houses. So, you know, it used to be that designers. I mean, there are some wonderful designers out there, and there are some lot of junk. It's both. But designers used to be like sort of autocrats, you know, like Schiaparelli or Dior or Madame Gris, even Yves Saint Laurent. They had a singular vision. And, you know, they put their vision out there today. It's not that they're not brilliant, but they are often successful, subservient to the conglomerates that own them. So the marketing of the collection almost is more important than the concept of the design. I mean, every now and then you'll get.
- [46:57]
Jessica Matlin
Is that a disservice to the art collection?
- [46:59]
David Kibbe
Of course it is. But, you know, what are they going to do? You know, first of all, you want, if you're Michael Kurt, you'd rather be a billionaire than, you know, have your house go under. So that's the way it is. I mean, I'm not trying to fight that system. I'm trying to give people tools to work within it.
- [47:14]
Jessica Matlin
You're not a rebel.
- [47:15]
David Kibbe
I am a rebel, but I'm not. But I'm trying to give people. And I certainly rebel against conformity and homogenization because that's the opposite of style. I'm trying to give people tools to work with the landscape that's there. And that's why this new book is different from the old book, because the landscape is different.
- [47:32]
Jen Sullivan
Very cool.
- [47:33]
Jessica Matlin
I think part of this is so interesting is, like, you're a therapist.
- [47:37]
Jen Sullivan
Really? You are like a fashion therapist. You're a style therapist. Who are you?
- [47:42]
David Kibbe
I'd rather be your style confidant.
- [47:43]
Jessica Matlin
Okay, okay.
- [47:44]
Jen Sullivan
Confidant. Therapist. Sounds a little like.
- [47:46]
David Kibbe
Because I'm on your style, you know.
- [47:47]
Jessica Matlin
And I want and I'VE Yeah, I've seen interviews about you. You are always talking about others. You're helping others. We ask a lot of our guests, what kind of like fashion and grooming products are you drawn to? Like, what do you put in your hair? What's in your hair right now? David, you've got gorgeous hair.
- [48:02]
David Kibbe
Oh, thank you.
- [48:02]
Jessica Matlin
Oh, little pomade in there. I don't know. I want to know about what you use every day.
- [48:06]
David Kibbe
Well, I use Perricone products, basically.
- [48:10]
Jessica Matlin
Oh, on your skin?
- [48:11]
David Kibbe
Yeah.
- [48:11]
Jessica Matlin
Good stuff.
- [48:12]
David Kibbe
I use this thing called Neuropeptide, which is phenomenal. I use an under eye firming thing. That's mostly it. And then I use a pear cone shaving cream that I mix with a little lidocaine. Because there used to be this thing. Yeah, this is a little bit.
- [48:25]
Jessica Matlin
Okay, okay. Go on.
- [48:27]
Jen Sullivan
You threw me with the lidocaine.
- [48:28]
David Kibbe
I know. Well, that's interesting. Okay, here's why. Okay. Aramis, which was men's division of Estee Lauder, used to have this. Came out with this shaving cream in this tub. And it cost a fortune, but you only use a tiny little bit. And it had a little benzocaine in it. I have very sensitive skin, so I always had razor burn, always, until this stuff came out. And it was amazing. And then they just continued it. So then I searched around, well, what can you use? And there was another thing for a while that had a little lidocaine in it. They just continued that, I think, because people didn't want to spend that much money. But, you know, the truth of it is it was really economical because you never. You didn't use hardly any. It's just a tiny little bit. But it doesn't really numb the skin, but it makes it smoother. It makes. It works better. So. So I figured out once I figured out, well, let me see if I could make something myself. And so I ordered. I don't know. Like a witch, right? No, it's like a witch. At the cauldron, I had a little. I ordered a little cream, lidocream cream, which you can get over the counter. It's a simple thing. It's not like this prescription thing. And I mix it with a pair of this pear comb shaving cream. It works really well. So that's.
- [49:31]
Jessica Matlin
And you don't get any irritation?
- [49:33]
David Kibbe
The opposite. That's why I.
- [49:36]
Jessica Matlin
Any fragrance? Do you have a favorite fragrance?
- [49:38]
David Kibbe
You know, I haven't worn fragrance in years. It's so funny because my wife and I were talking about that. We used to be Very into it. And neither one of us has for a long time. I used to wear Antaeus by Chanel, and that was my go to fragrance for a long time. Now, growing up, I had a counter. I had, like, 15 different colognes, and I would wear a different one every day. And I thought that was just the coolest thing, you know? And I was young. English leather. English leather. Lime. Canoe.
- [50:05]
Jen Sullivan
Canoe.
- [50:06]
David Kibbe
Do you remember the ad? Can you Canoe? Yes. Yves Saint Laurent, it was called. I don't even remember all of them.
- [50:14]
Jessica Matlin
You had a wardrobe. You had a whole fray.
- [50:15]
Jen Sullivan
I did.
- [50:16]
David Kibbe
I did. I did the whole counter of my dresser. Was that. One of the things I think that's really important for people to understand is as you get older and you get more refined in any kind of art, it gets simpler because it's not more elaborate, you know, when you're very young, especially if you're younger.
- [50:31]
Jessica Matlin
Why do you think that is?
- [50:32]
David Kibbe
I think because you have wisdom.
- [50:34]
Jessica Matlin
David, how old are you?
- [50:36]
David Kibbe
You really want to know? Okay. All right. I'll have to tell you a story about that. 69. 69.
- [50:43]
Jessica Matlin
Are you sure about that? You said it.
- [50:45]
David Kibbe
Let me tell you why. All right.
- [50:47]
Jessica Matlin
Okay.
- [50:48]
David Kibbe
First of all, I erased the idea of numbers. A long time ago, I came to New York as an actor, all right? And I realized because people ask me that, I think I don't really attach things to those numbers. And where did I stop? I've been lying about my age my whole life. First of all, my mother lied about her age in reverse. My mother was a very ornery type, so she would lie that she was older than she was. So that was sort of in the background that you don't tell the truth about things like that. And I used to, like, forge driver's license to get into bars and things when I was a teenager. And I'm from a small town, you know, in the middle of Missouri. And I seemed older than a lot of people there because I'd been exposed to a lot of things. So I grew up with people thinking I was older. So then I came to New York when I was, like, 20. And all of a sudden, your age in show business is only how people perceive you, and you can't audition for things that they don't perceive you as. And I looked very young, so all I could audition for, all I ever got were teenagers. So then I started lying that I was younger than I was. And then as it got older, I still was doing that, because even by the time I was 30, I couldn't get cast.
- [51:51]
Jessica Matlin
You could play 20 in a. I could.
- [51:52]
David Kibbe
I couldn't get cast as a 30 year old. But if they knew you're 30, they're never going to submit you for that because it's all prejudice.
- [51:58]
Jessica Matlin
You're working with the systems that exist. I get it.
- [52:00]
David Kibbe
That's right. And so then when I started doing this, I was in my mid-20s, actually, when I started doing this, little by little. And then I looked very young, so I wanted to be more authoritative. So I would say I was older than I was. Okay. Then I went in the back and then. So I got used to that. So I kept changing my birth year in my mind in case people would ask. Then I go back into acting again and it's the same thing. I'm still 10 years younger than I was then. So when I'm 40, I'm saying I'm 30. So I realize it's crazy, this idea, this attachment that we have to the.
- [52:30]
Jessica Matlin
Maybe I shouldn't have asked you. I'm asking the wrong question.
- [52:32]
David Kibbe
I get it. No, it's really not. I mean, you might as well know, I'm in July, I'm a July baby. So I turned 69, I was born in 1955, so I really came of age in the 70s. That's sort of like, you know.
- [52:44]
Jessica Matlin
So when you're at a point in your life, though, you have wisdom, you've streamlined, you know who you are.
- [52:48]
David Kibbe
I wouldn't say that about myself. I would say I have ideas, you know, strong ideas. But yes, because, you know, I remember I was in therapy for a long time. I remember early on, my therapist said to me, when I was in my 20s, he said, your life is just beginning. He said, I would not go back to my 20s for all the money in the world. I thought, what on earth are you talking about? You know, this is like nobody older than us knows anything. And then you start to get older and you realize, oh, you said these stupid things when you were younger. And it's like, I hope nobody remembers them, you know, because, you know what I mean? I look back and I think, oh, I hope that didn't get recorded anywhere. So, you know, it's cliche to say you're as old as you feel, but I don't really, if you stay around long enough, you just sort of understand that these things are different. And also, you know, let me tell you something. Ageism is a terrible thing in our society. It's the worst thing. It's the still, the ism that's the worst of all because you don't have to age the way your parents did. You don't have to age the way your grandparents did. Our bodies are meant to be better, live longer and better than we, take care of them. And if people take care of themselves. Not that I do such a good job, but, you know, I'm not like, smoking all the time or something like that, or all the things that do show up, they just do. And I learned to stay out of the sun, which was hard. I was a lifeguard as a teenager, and I taught swimming lessons. Red Cross. I was a Red Cross certified swimming instructor. So I was in the sun every day, and that was when people wanted me to.
- [54:15]
Jessica Matlin
He's had many lives.
- [54:17]
David Kibbe
I have.
- [54:17]
Jessica Matlin
He's like a concert level pianist, too. And then he's an axer.
- [54:21]
David Kibbe
Well, that's where I. Thank you. But that's where I started. It's my piano that gave me everything because I was very talented and I had a fantastic teacher and she taught me techniques.
- [54:31]
Jessica Matlin
I. That's part of the book, too. He goes through that. It helps. It'll help you understand.
- [54:34]
David Kibbe
I thought that that was important to say those things about myself, because if I'm asking people to trust me, they need to know something about me. And also, it's where my philosophy comes from. And everything about this system is based on the philosophy.
- [54:46]
Jessica Matlin
Yeah. Okay. Before we let you go, we do this. I don't want to go. I know we didn't prepare you, but this is a fun thing. We do a little exercise. We call it The Fat Mascara 5. Jess, you want to do.
- [54:55]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah. This is a quick and dirty lightning round. Okay.
- [54:58]
David Kibbe
Okay.
- [54:59]
Jen Sullivan
Very, very, very, like, first thing that comes to your mind. What's the last.
- [55:04]
David Kibbe
Can you flunk this?
- [55:05]
Jen Sullivan
There's no flunking. It's not even possible.
- [55:07]
David Kibbe
All right. That's what I say. Okay, Go ahead.
- [55:09]
Jen Sullivan
What is the last thing you bought, David?
- [55:11]
David Kibbe
Clothes wise?
- [55:12]
Jessica Matlin
No.
- [55:13]
Jen Sullivan
Could be a stick. It could be a pack of gum, could be a coffee.
- [55:16]
David Kibbe
Iced tea.
- [55:17]
Jen Sullivan
Okay. Iced tea. What, like on the corner in a restaurant? What's Starbucks?
- [55:20]
David Kibbe
I have, like, about five iced teas a day. I do. I was raised on them. What can I tell you? No sweeteners, no water. Just tea and ice.
- [55:30]
Jen Sullivan
Wait, do you get five Starbucks iced teas a day?
- [55:32]
David Kibbe
Yes. Trenches, the largest size.
- [55:34]
Jen Sullivan
Oh, my God.
- [55:35]
David Kibbe
No. I get. I get four black and one green.
- [55:39]
Jen Sullivan
Do they know you?
- [55:40]
David Kibbe
Oh, boy. Do they ever.
- [55:41]
Jen Sullivan
Do they know your name?
- [55:42]
David Kibbe
Oh, God, yes.
- [55:43]
Jen Sullivan
Do they have them?
- [55:43]
David Kibbe
They have them ready for me. Yes. Yes. On a Tray, of course.
- [55:48]
Jen Sullivan
Oh my God, that is hysterical. That's the funniest thing. I'm not going to forget that. That is so funny. What movie would you consider to be the most stylish movie of all time?
- [55:57]
David Kibbe
Oh, gosh. Fair.
- [55:59]
Jen Sullivan
Oh, that's a goodie.
- [56:01]
David Kibbe
And second one would be Age of Innocence. Mmm.
- [56:04]
Jessica Matlin
Oh, beautiful.
- [56:05]
Jen Sullivan
Okay, what's your favorite piece of clothing that you own?
- [56:08]
David Kibbe
Ah, burgundy velvet jacket that I wear as a suit with burgundy pants, but it's two pieces and it's got big pink lapels and it's velvet. My second one is. I have a second one. Can I give you a second one?
- [56:21]
Jessica Matlin
Yeah.
- [56:21]
David Kibbe
I have a, I have a champagne colored shark skin suit.
- [56:24]
Jen Sullivan
Ooh, wow.
- [56:26]
Jessica Matlin
In the autumn palette. Both of those.
- [56:28]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your favorite snack?
- [56:31]
David Kibbe
Oh God. Today it's a brie.
- [56:33]
Jessica Matlin
Okay.
- [56:34]
David Kibbe
Because we have a lot of it and I've been eating it, so.
- [56:37]
Jen Sullivan
And finally it's 11am on a Saturday. What are you most likely doing?
- [56:42]
David Kibbe
Sleeping, hopefully.
- [56:44]
Jessica Matlin
Have you woken up yet and gone back to sleep or you're just not even awake yet?
- [56:47]
David Kibbe
No, because I don't go to bed until around three or four in the morning.
- [56:49]
Jessica Matlin
Because you have five I teas a day, David.
- [56:52]
Jen Sullivan
What are you doing at 3 or 4 in the morning?
- [56:54]
Jessica Matlin
Darius? Metabolizing his iced teas.
- [56:58]
David Kibbe
Exactly. I'm watching a movie, watching television. I don't know if it were, if it were pre Covid, maybe we'd be going out, we'd just be getting in.
- [57:09]
Jen Sullivan
Yeah.
- [57:09]
Jessica Matlin
Yeah.
- [57:09]
Jen Sullivan
Oh my God. That's really funny.
- [57:12]
Jessica Matlin
This was fun. I think you've. I love hearing from you directly because I think a lot of people talk about you online and social media. So it's really nice to hear from you about what you've created. So we like. Thank you.
- [57:22]
Jen Sullivan
Wait, one last quick question. It's like a yes or no. It's like a yes or no. Are you ever somewhere where you're liking to swipe your credit card, fill out an application and someone's like, are you Kibby? Like the Kibby?
- [57:33]
David Kibbe
Yes. Yes.
- [57:34]
Jen Sullivan
Really?
- [57:35]
David Kibbe
So just like a couple of weeks ago, Susan and I were walking down the street at night and this woman came up to her and everybody's always stopping cause Susan looks so great. And I gave her my card and she looked at it and she started screaming. She goes, when I get home, my daughter is gonna go crazy. She talks about you night and day. Yes.
- [57:56]
Jessica Matlin
Uh huh.
- [57:57]
David Kibbe
Heavens, a lot.
- [57:58]
Jen Sullivan
That is incredible.
- [57:59]
Jessica Matlin
Well, she can come listen to this podcast cause it's been fun getting to know you.
- [58:03]
David Kibbe
Can I say one thing before you go? Because I was listening to your last one. When you're talking about the caviar and the baked potato at the Caviar Cafe.
- [58:10]
Jessica Matlin
Julie talked about Caviar Cafe.
- [58:12]
David Kibbe
Yeah. Oh my God.
- [58:13]
Jessica Matlin
Do you like that baked potato?
- [58:14]
David Kibbe
Oh, I love that plate. I love that baked potato. We went there after it opened, opened with friends and we had that baked potato and oh my God, I have dreams about that potato.
- [58:25]
Jessica Matlin
Okay, well, we'll end on that note. We hope you get another one soon. David, thank you so much for joining us.
- [58:31]
Jen Sullivan
We hope you enjoyed the show.
- [58:33]
Jessica Matlin
It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email your thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your.
- [58:43]
Jen Sullivan
Beauty questions and hear what products you love to share a raise, a one product review, or to ask a beauty question. Email us at infoatmascara.
- [58:51]
Jessica Matlin
If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the United States is 646-481-8182.
- [59:03]
Jen Sullivan
Thanks so much for listening. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
- [59:14]
Jessica Matlin
Here's a show that we recommend this season on the Dream. Supplies are being provided by nurses who run out in the middle of the night and purchase diapers, but the hospital is still charging as if they still have these items. We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy.
- [59:36]
David Kibbe
The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes.
- [59:40]
Jessica Matlin
So you can never stop working. The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly. Starting Monday, January 20th, Acast helps creators.
- [59:51]
Jen Sullivan
Launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.