Investigator/Researcher (2:05)

But let's acknowledge from the start, when you find somebody murdered, you can find all sorts of evidence that they were murdered without being able to find any evidence as to why.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (2:19)

Welcome to episode 10 of Fatal the Death of JFK Jr. I'm your host, ex homicide cop, Colin McLaren. So far we have tracked the most troubling events in John Jr. S short life. Now it's time to look a little closer at the crash that killed him to start our investigation and hear facts from some of those that don't believe it was an accident.

Narrator/Host (2:44)

He'd been flying for a long time. He was a very meticulous pilot. He knew what he was doing, never took any risks. So that could not have been a reason for the accident. It could not have been his fault. It must have been something else.

Investigator/Researcher (2:57)

The Pentagon took over. That doesn't make any sense. They announced that there was no flight instructor. That doesn't make any sense. It took them 15 and a half hours to send any search and rescue ships or boats to the crash area when they knew the area to within 3ft the instant that it happened. Those are all facts.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (3:19)

Lets break this mystery down. On the night of July 16, 1999, John F. Kennedy Jr. Taxied his airworthy Piper Saratoga plane down the Runway at Essex County Airport, New Jersey and took off into the faded light. He was headed for Martha's Vineyard. On board was wife Carolyn and her sister Lauren Bessette. It would be a night flight and the pilot was alone in the cockpit. Just over an hour after takeoff. Something went horribly wrong. But what? I asked pilot Kyle Bailey and air crash investigators Jeff Gazzetti and Richard Bender to talk me through those final moments.

Pilot/Expert Witness (4:02)

At nighttime over water, when you get in real close proximity, you really can't tell exactly how high you are. Actually, are you 1 foot over the ocean or 10ft or 20ft, because all you see is blackness and you can't see where the sky ends and the ocean begins.

Investigator/Researcher (4:20)

So there's no lights underneath anymore. So a pilot doesn't have any reference to where the ground is. The eyes and the inner ear were playing games, tricks. You can't see with your eyes which way is up and which way is down. I think he made two turns. As I recall, he came out of one of the turns and his brain says he was straight and level when he was actually still turning. And he was also descending and his airspeed started to go up. So he pulled back on the controls to slow it down. And what that did was increase the rate of turn. And at that time, the airplane began a descent. And that descent varied between 400ft per minute and 800ft per minute.

Pilot/Expert Witness (5:06)

But since the plane is in a turn going downward, that pulling back on the control column is actually making the spiral tighter and increasing these G forces tremendously, possibly overstressing the plane and possibly causing components of the airplane to fail, such as, you know, the wing, parts of the tail, perhaps parts of the flaps or the landing gear if it was extended or not. And you would feel tremendous G forces on your body.

Investigator/Researcher (5:36)

He kept pulling back and kept increasing the rate of turn.

Pilot/Expert Witness (5:40)

You would feel the plane descending, spiraling, and just tremendous G force is on your face, almost like you would on a roller coaster when it's going through turns. And you probably had, I'm sure, screaming passengers in the back realizing that things aren't going well, to put it very lightly, and everything happening. And now he's doing this, pulling back, and now that's getting tighter. So I mean, it probably was complete chaos. And I'm sure he was probably aware that the end is probably coming, you know, as the spiral is just being

Narrator/Host (6:15)

aggravated more and more, the airspeed increasing

Investigator/Researcher (6:20)

until the airplane's rate of descent was close to 5,000ft per minute. So it's really screaming down there. And the airplane struck the water in a nose down attitude. Down he went.

Pilot/Expert Witness (6:32)

It's the snap of a finger. Everybody's dead. It's just the snap of a finger. Everything is over.

Investigator/Researcher (6:38)

When we recovered the wreckage, it was pretty well chewed up with what we call hydrostatic damage to the whole airplane, really. I mean, there was no way it was survivable by anyone in the aircraft

Pilot/Expert Witness (6:51)

the minute it's impact that the whole plane is completely destroyed and you know, the bodies are probably just completely beyond recognition from the impact in the g forces.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (7:06)

John Jr. The charismatic, wildly famous son of a murdered president and nephew of a murdered Attorney general, a man seemingly with the world at his feet, was suddenly shockingly dead, aged only 38. The world reeled then asked how and why. Initial reports were simply that John Jr. Carolyn and Lauren were missing. They had simply failed to arrive at Martha's Vineyard as scheduled. Presidential historian Doug Weed remembers the moment he heard the news and feared the worst.

Doug Weed (Presidential Historian) (7:41)

So I was in an automobile and the radio was on and it came over the news that John F. Kennedy Jr. His airplane had disappeared over the Atlantic. And I had chills go down my spine. I thought, this is just wow. I heard it. And I thought this has happened over, over and over throughout history. This cannot be a coincidence. There must be some terrible pressure. I don't believe in curses, but there must be at some subconscious level something very strong that's going on that some terrible pressure that's going on.

Narrator/Reporter (8:25)

Ted immediately brought in his team of advisors into Hyannis where they had been gathering for cousin Rory Kennedy's wedding. And what was supposed to be a beautiful weekend for the Kennedys to celebrate the marriage of Rory turned into an absolutely terror filled weekend of waiting for news reports, waiting for reports from the feds that Ted Kennedy was able to get because of his position as a senator. And even at this time, there were fears of possible terrorism. Had something happened to John? Had his plane been shot out of the air? Was this some type of terror attack on the Kennedys, making JFK Jr. A target?

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Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (11:10)

Pilot Cole Bailey, who had been the last man to see the party before they took off, raced out of his home and headed back to Essex County Airport to see what he could learn.

Pilot/Expert Witness (11:22)

So I went to the airport. I saw some police cars. It was starting to get light. It was light for maybe an hour or two, probably two hours prior. And that's when like everything went crazy. It went to the Associated Press and then it was like the whole media just kind of exploded on the airport and then it was just chaos from that point after

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (11:46)

the deaths of John, Carolyn and Lauren were finally confirmed five days later when divers recovered the remains of their bodies lifted from the ocean floor along with the wreckage. Once again, the most famous family in America had fallen victim to the so called Kennedy curse. And Barry Levine says the tragedy continues to resonate over 20 years later.

Narrator/Reporter (12:11)

Over the years, there's been a deep divide between the Bessette family and the Kennedys that even though all these years have gone by, Carolyn Bessette's mother, Ann Freeman, has really never fully recovered from the loss of her tragic loss of her of her two daughters. And on the Kennedy side, while Ted Kennedy, of course, has passed on. Friends tell us that Caroline Kennedy has really never been the same person she was before the death of her brother than she was after his death. That there was something missing from her life. And even though she has raised her children and has worked tirelessly in many aspects of politics and for various fundraising and philanthropic reasons, that Carolyn has never really recovered either from the Death of the 3. What Caroline Kennedy and Carolyn Bensett's mother share, of course, is this deep, grief stricken loss of those closest to them.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (13:33)

Just a few weeks before his death, John Jr. Met George Urban, also known as Ugly George. He's a late night cable TV host as famous for his shocking on air antics as he was for his unlikely interviews with a listers such as Michael Jackson and John Lennon. George provides us with an unusual insight into the psyche of Junior at that time.

Ugly George (14:00)

John Kennedy Jr. Was at the lowest moment of his life in 99 when he and I accidentally met on 8th Avenue because George magazine had foundered completely. That was his only accomplishment in his life and he had failed completely at it. And I'm walking down the street one night coming from a friend's house, very, very disillusioned about a lot of things. I didn't even have my camera on. And a very friendly voice comes up to me, all right, and he says, hey, Ugly George, how you doing? You try to pick up my sister. But it wasn't like, you know, the New York version of I'm gonna punch you in the nose, you try to pick up my sister. He said it as a joke, sort of, and I said, I know that voice. And I looked and it's John, John. And we began to talk a little bit and feel each other out a little. He says, you know what, let's go in the corner here and have a little cup of coffee in this little dopey coffee shop that happens to be here. We had to talk for half an hour and I was very flattered and amazed. He leveled with me. And he told me why he leveled with me. He said, george, you know how many phonies I'm surrounded by? You know how many glad handers I'm surrounded by? You know how many phony friends I have who are with me because my name is Kennedy and I might even be the next president of the United States. They don't like me. They just want to use me to help themselves. And he said, I gotta tell you this, George. One of the things that really gets to me is the failure of my George magazine. When I came out, the first edition went through the roof, and I was so pleased with myself. My publishing partner was pleased. Everybody was thrilled. But it didn't take me too long to figure out. And I heard this from other people. He tells me why it sold so well. Phony liberals. Every phony liberal in New York has a coffee table. And what's on that coffee table defines their place in liberal society. You have to have the right book, you know, Jacqueline, Suzanne and Valley of the Dolls. You have to have this, you have to have that. And when George magazine came out, it was required. Right in the middle, you have George magazine there with Cindy Crawford on the COVID dressed as George Washington. You know what? Most of these magazines were never even opened. They didn't even bother to read them. They just wanted it there as a prestige thing. But the bad news was, once you had the first edition of George on your coffee table and you were phony, you didn't need any more. So no one subscribed to it. And he said to me, you know, I got some integrity. Yes, I'm worth a lot of money. He kind of shrugged. And, you know, I'm famous and all this stuff, but it really gets to me that I've never been a success. You know, everything I do is because I inherited the name and inherited the money and this and that and the other thing. I myself never achieved anything

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (17:05)

according to Ugly George. It was not only his career that John felt he had failed at.

Ugly George (17:11)

His love life was not what the public said it was. And he was more than a little disappointed. I'm not sure he ever pronounced the word divorce. I can't recall whether he ever used that word. But he came close to it, all right. He was having a lot of trouble with this Carolyn Bessette. A lot of trouble. His marriage was a non marriage. It never was a marriage. He had made a bad mistake with Carolyn. She was not a nice person, you know, okay. And may have even been a gold digger, if I'm allowed to say that. And he saw and what he really wanted, he told me this was kids. And she just kept pushing him away. And it looked like he was not gonna have any kids. So this fairytale Camelot wedding, which existed only in the press and the popular press and the intellectual press. Okay, was a phony. Why don't I have any children? Why isn't my wife pregnant? You know, he didn't have to say that for me to understand that that's what he meant.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (18:22)

As we have previously seen, Junior was undoubtedly in poor spirits at the time of the crash, with his marriage in trouble, his publishing venture haemorrhaging, and he himself suffering under the pressures of expectation. But was he capable of committing suicide? While it's too early for me to say, others were convinced that whether by design or error, John had nothing to do with his own death.

Narrator/Reporter (18:48)

So was there a possible reason to take John F. Kennedy out? Yes, absolutely.

Investigator/Researcher (18:54)

Let me say, and we haven't scratched the surface, but there's just so much evidence that he was murdered right away.

Narrator/Host (19:01)

I had felt that there might be more to the story, just like with his father's death and his uncle's death. And sure enough, there's a lot more than the Chevrosian has led us to believe.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (19:26)

We're going to explore aspects of the case that some believe prove that John Jr. Was the victim of another Kennedy assassination. First of all, here's John Hanke, writer and director of Kennedy documentary Dark Legacy.

Investigator/Researcher (19:42)

The murders of John Kennedy Sr. And the murder of Robert Kennedy and the murder of John Kennedy Jr. Those are part of a pattern. I started doing all this research and it just leaped out at you. The first thing I read that in the news report that I heard that morning, they said that there was a flight instructor on the plane. And when I picked up the LA Times the next morning and read it, there was no mention of a flight instructor. And again, the hair is standing up on the back of my neck. And I ran into on the Internet an article, a lead article in the Boston Globe complaining that it took them 15 and a half hours to send the first search and rescue craft to the side of the plane crash. And the reporters writing this story were just outraged, and rightly so. John Kennedy Jr. Had a very modern plane with all the latest bells and whistles and that it was equipped with electronics that if his plane descended below 200ft, any place but the tarmac of the target airport, it would have set off an alarm in the faa. Alarms should have gone off at the FAA headquarters before the plane hit the water. In addition to which, I talked to the head of the West Coast Coast Guard. Both of these guys were just, you know, amazingly friendly and forthcoming. And he explained to me that with the current transponders that planes are equipped with, they can locate a plane crash to within three feet so that they should have been scrambling before the plane hit the water and they should have known the location to within three feet.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (21:40)

John Henke also says he doesn't believe officials are telling the truth about a crucial detail in John Jr. S final flight.

Investigator/Researcher (21:51)

Another issue is that the FAA says he did not contact any of the flight control people on path. And all of his flight instructors, the ones that I was able to talk to, they couldn't believe it. They thought that that was absolutely outrageous in the most extreme terms that anyone would suggest that he didn't contact air traffic control facilities everywhere along your route so they can advise you of any unforeseen abnormalities that you might be flying into. It's just beyond belief. It's, it's the most powerful evidence perhaps that he was murdered that you have this sort of a screaming lie that he didn't contact the air traffic control facilities. So they said that he didn't contact any of the air traffic control facilities in order to be able to explain why the FAA didn't hit the red button when the plane went down below 200ft before it hit the water. Well, he wasn't in the system, they say. Well, that's preposterous. At 12:30 in the afternoon, the Pentagon took over the reporting of John's plane crash. Why is the Pentagon taking over the reporting of John's plane crash? Well, that's another screaming sign. It's really giving the Kennedy family the finger and saying, yes, we killed him. What are you going to do about it? There's the military taking over the reporting. And in their taking over the reporting, they announced that there was no flight instructor on the plane. Well, they had no way of knowing whether there was a flight instructor on the plane. In fact, today no one can state definitively that there was no flight instructor on the plane. If you crash a plane into the ocean and you don't locate it for five days, you can't say the fact that you didn't recover one of the bodies that you thought was there is proof that the person wasn't on the plane.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (23:50)

I also spoke to John Kerner, author of Exploding the the JFK junior Assassination. He says that the official explanation that Junior's disorientation caused him to go into what's called a death spiral simply does not ring true.

Narrator/Host (24:08)

The plane takes off at 8:39pm One hour into the flight. At 9:39pm JFK Jr. Calls in to air traffic control in Martha's Vineyard. And he tells the air traffic controller that he's going to drop off Lauren Bissette and then they're going to head up to Martha's Vineyard for Rory Kennedy's wedding. That was why they were doing this. So at 9:39pm which is one hour into the flight, exactly the one hour marker, he calls in and says, is he going to land the aircraft? He's about, maybe one mile off of the approach. There was nothing wrong with him or the aircraft he was about to land. And then one minute later, the plane drops off of radar. So this is unusual because he would have said something if something was wrong with the aircraft. So you put these two together, there's nothing that could have caused disorientation. We also know that during his training, he was autopilot on April. I'll give you this example, April 28, 1998, well over a year before the crash. He was given conditions of disorientation with the hood on in a simulator and recovered the aircraft without any incident. So he knew how to use autopilot. He knew how to recover the aircraft. In fact, he took this same flight 17 times in that aircraft without a flight instructor. So he knew what he was doing. And the facts indicate that this was not an accident.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (25:50)

John Kerner also believes that he has found witnesses to an explosion in the sky where John's plane would have been.

Narrator/Host (25:58)

And at that point, at 9:40pm There are these witnesses, three of whom see a flash of light and hear an explosion that we're out there fishing. Director Bannock from Pittsburgh, a lawyer. He witnessed the explosion clearly in a very clear night sky. There's three sources for him in the New York Times, Washington Post, and a book called the Day John Died. They all documented his witnessing of this explosion. Seeing the flash light, he was fishing. He fishes all the time out there in Northeast Vineyard. So he. He had always had this special place to fish. And it was positioned right over where he saw this explosion. See the good view of it? Now, I did contact him. So I contacted him and document this in the book. So he tells me, I would love to talk to you. It's great. Just give me some time to finish my court case, and then I'll give you, you know, my version of events, what happened. And then I say, okay, fine, I can wait, sure. And then week goes by, contact him again. He says, okay, you know, give me some more time. I'll let you know, I'll contact you. So nothing. Then I contact him again and I get you know, nothing. So from the point I asked him to say something, he changed his mind. I don't really know why. It was very unusual. People are scared. And I think perhaps Victor got scared.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (27:39)

Had Victor Prabanek been leaned on to keep quiet about the explosion and if so, by whom?

Narrator/Host (27:48)

So we can also mention one more weird thing about this story too. Very strange. ABC News reports at 2:15am that the Navy has picked up a rescue beacon. And they're closing in on it now. Reporting by the Hartford Courier. Good, good stuff here. They found out that the Piper Saratoga had a state of the art rescue beacon that would automatically start issuing a distress call on impact. It was a state of the art rescue beacon that it did this automatically. So if the plane crashed right away it would start meeting this beacon. And it went. And you can hear this beacon for a 50 mile radius. So it's just a massively large radius. So the Navy's closing in and they say they picked up a rescue beacon. And then they tell ABC News and also other news outlets that they made a mistake. It's not the Piper Saratoga. No, they said it's a downed Navy military aircraft in the same spot. They're looking for JFK Junior's plane. I just let that sink in for a second. There are many questions to think about here if that's the case. So at that point, NBC News drops the story. They think, well, if it's not JFK Junior's plane, let the Navy do their job and just let it be a bat. But if that's the case, think about this. How did that plane crash that other plane? Where's the wreckage for that plane? Is a pilot dead? What mission was it on and still in aerospace? I mean, did it collide with JFK Jr. S plane? There can't be another aircraft there. Where's the dead pilot? Did you notify the family? All these questions are never asked. Another question they should have asked too is how can you make this mistake? Rescue beacons for these two aircrafts are way different. For JFK junior's plane, for a private aircraft, it's like a high pitch shrill sound. But for a naval aircraft, it's. It's a very loud repeating foghorn. They're way different. You can't confuse them. There's two possibilities here. Either the lying about this for some weak reason, or there actually is a naval aircraft in the water there. Either one is very disturbing.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (30:24)

If we had a run with the idea that John Jr. Was murdered, the next question any detective will ask is who had motive for the killing. As we heard earlier in the series, he had already been the subject of at least one genuine kidnapping attempt. A plot by Colombian drug cartel boss to kill Junior.

Narrator/Reporter (30:46)

Whether the FBI inform John of this plot is something we'll never know. But there's every indication that John was extremely fortunate. There was three factual kidnap plots, according to the FBI file. Fortunately, all. All three of these were never enacted. And one, in fact, ended in the arrests of several men on that Greek island.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (31:15)

Our search into the FBI archives on the Kennedys did not only uncover the Columbian plot, we also discovered an extraordinary death threat letter John Jr. Supposedly wrote to Senator Joe Biden. A letter that was discreetly filed away. As reporter Leon Wagner explains,

Narrator/Host (31:35)

the only way that John got away with it is because his name and his uncle, the senator from Massachusetts and the legacy of his father who was assassinated and his uncle who was assassinated. No FBI director would have the stomach to prosecute John Kennedy Jr. That's why it was dropped. It was strictly because of his name and his connections.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (32:07)

The FBI may have taken no further action, but senior players in the Democrat party were unlikely to have been so forgiving. And as Ugly George explains, Junior was considering a future in the political arena.

Ugly George (32:22)

When I met John, John Kennedy, he was apprehensive, he said, and it wasn't hard to pick up. He didn't have to keep repeating this thing. I have never achieved anything in my life. I want to achieve something. One of the things I might achieve is what my father achieved. And he didn't have to finish the sentence. I got what he meant by that, meaning being president. I can't recall the exact words, but he said, you know, there are some obstacles to that. And he said something to the effect, there are some people who don't seem to want me to be president. He was a little apprehensive about that. He was going to run for president. Now, here's a guy never held political office, never did anything in his life except inherit money, all right? Never achieved anything. But yet his charisma, his name, his father was so powerful that he stood an excellent chance of getting the Democratic party nomination and very likely in the next year, 2000, right. And being able to take the presidency back. You know, Clinton was a Democrat, and he was going to be a Democrat, but there were certain people, and don't ask me who they were, but even John. John hinted to me who were very fearful of that prospect. They did not want him not only to run for president, but to detract from the people that they had for president, okay? They had their own choices, all right? And it didn't include him. And you know, his big problem was money. He had all the money in the world. So there's a, there's a big word. Beholden. How beholden was John John to the big money boys? He wasn't. And that's what scared them too, okay? He would do what he thought was right for America. And that really scared them rather than, hey, I just put half a billion dollars into your campaign. Now here's what you're going to do, Mr. President, all right? And so it is said that some things were very carefully contrived. Very carefully, all right? And someone got the idea he's gonna fly. He's not a great flyer. You know what, maybe we could introduce a few elements to this flight where we could make it look like an accident.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (34:58)

I have to say, logically and speaking as a homicide detective with decades of experience, the thought that John Jr. Was murdered by elements within his own political party seems a little far fetched, even for a Kennedy conspiracy. But the idea that he was killed because of his political ambitions might hold water for another reason.

Narrator/Host (35:21)

John Kerner explains he also was just obsessed with trying to prove who killed his father, that the fuchsia version there was not the case. He published an article in George magazine by, written by Oliver Stone, talked about this, hired Wayne Madsen to investigate the assassination. His girlfriend, Megazione, in high school, she wrote a book about this book of poems and reflections about her time with him. And she puts in that book that he was just obsessed with trying to prove that the Warren Commission was not the official version of events.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (36:00)

Presidential biographer Doug Wade confirms that finding out the truth about his father's death had become an obsession for John Jr.

Doug Weed (Presidential Historian) (36:09)

At some point, he was hoping to peel back the onion and find out what had happened to his father. John F. Kennedy Jr. Would want to know what happened to his father because he loved his father and he loved his mother and he loved the family and because it was ripped away from him. And certainly the next best thing to taking it back would be to expose the truth and bring to light the people who had ripped it away and how and why it had been ripped away.

Narrator/Host (36:44)

So if he became president, the truth could come out. And if he got into power, then he could use the mechanism of power to hold responsible those people that had killed his uncle and, and killed his father.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (36:59)

Was Junior killed in order to protect the identity of those who killed his father? Leon Wagner and John Kerner believe it's Credible.

Narrator/Host (37:08)

Well, the CIA, of course, is the one who could do this. I mean, they're the ones that do recovery. They close off the area. They're the ones that could put a bomb on the plane. They're the ones that can make sure he's never gets into the White House, because that would be the end of their agency. We do know for a fact that they killed his uncle. We know for a fact that JFK Jr. Knew about this. He was interested in the assassinations of his family. So that's a key problem there. We know for a fact they already killed a Kennedy or two before.

Colin McLaren (Host/Investigator) (37:43)

Murder, suicide, or just a terrible accident? What really happened in the skies over Martha's Vineyard? Next time on Fatal the death of JFK Jr. I'm going to do something not done previously. Study John's final minutes alive and mimic his flight. All 63 minutes inside an identical aircraft at the exact same time. To see if the truth can finally be exposed. We've got ourselves a Piper Saratoga, identical type of aircraft as what was owned by JFK Jr. So we're going to jump on board shortly, take the exact flight path, all the loops, hoops, and all the problems that went with it, and see what happens. The death of JFK Jr. Is hosted by myself, Colin McLaren. It's executive produced by Dylan Howard and Matt Sprouse and is a production of Broad and Water Studios and Endeavour Audio. Executive producers also include Tom Freestone, James Robertson and Andy Tillett. And the series is written by Dominic Utten, reporting by Douglas Monteiro. The series is mixed and engineered by Sean Crabbett and Sam Adda. There is so much more to this story and you don't want to miss anything, I can assure you. Make sure you subscribe to Fatal Voyage, the death of JFK Jr. Wherever you get your podcasts.

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