S07:19 Back in Time with Harlequin Blaze

Summary

Fated Mates - A Romance Novel Podcast
Episode: S07:19 Back in Time with Harlequin Blaze
Release Date: January 21, 2025
Hosts: Sarah MacLean (Host/Author) & Jen Prokop (Romance Critic)

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Introduction and Announcements

[00:00] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah opens the episode with announcements, promoting her upcoming "Start Your Romance Today" class scheduled for February 23rd. She emphasizes that it's a beginner-level class covering all aspects of writing a romance novel. Additionally, Sarah provides a content warning for the week’s episode, which delves into romance novels from the early 2000s, noting that societal awareness was different back then.

[01:35] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen engages in a brief light-hearted exchange about social media frustrations, highlighting the transient nature of platforms like TikTok and Instagram.

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Opening Game: Literary Character Association

[03:01] Sarah MacLean:
To kick off the episode, Sarah introduces a game inspired by an Instagram video by @and.dot.some. She challenges Jen to name three literary characters—past, present, and future selves—which serves as an icebreaker and sets a playful tone for the episode.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah: “This is a personality game. It's a party trick. It's good at a... I bet it's good on a date or at a dinner party.” [05:07]
• Jen: “The ashes of the world are down around me, Sarah. But I found my lady love.” [05:16]

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Deep Dive into Harlequin Blaze

[06:12] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah officially welcomes listeners to the episode, announcing that it’s dedicated entirely to Harlequin Blaze—a category romance line from Harlequin. She expresses nostalgia and excitement to explore Blaze's history and impact on the romance genre.

[07:15] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen provides a historical overview of Harlequin, detailing its various lines and how each served different romance sub-genres. She explains that Harlequin Blaze was introduced in August 2001 as an extension of their Temptation line, which had been gaining popularity due to its sexier content.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen: “Harlequin introduced the Blaze. Now, I think it was actually, from what I can tell, probably like an outcropping of another line where they had, like, blazing hot.” [09:37]
• Sarah: “These were people who are like, games. This is fun.” [31:01]

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Significance of Harlequin Blaze in Romance History

[10:36] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen discusses the proliferation of Harlequin Blaze books, explaining how readers would subscribe to receive multiple Blaze novels monthly via mail. This subscription model fostered a dedicated readership and allowed Harlequin to cater effectively to the market's demand for more sexually explicit romance novels.

[12:15] Jennifer Prokop:
She reflects on how, before digital platforms like Kindle Unlimited, Harlequin Blaze represented a pivotal shift towards sex-positive storytelling in romance, empowering heroines to embrace their sexuality unapologetically.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah: “Harlequin's market has sort of been eaten for lunch by KU.” [11:50]
• Jen: “These were people who are like, games. This is fun.” [31:01]

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Diversity and Segregation in Harlequin Lines

[22:40] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen highlights a significant issue with Harlequin Blaze—its lack of diversity. The Blaze line predominantly featured white characters, paralleling Harlequin's Kymani Romance line, which was exclusively for Black authors from 2006 to 2019. This segregation underscored the publishing industry's racial divides during that era.

[23:56] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah agrees, noting that Black authors had limited opportunities outside dedicated lines like Kymani, reflecting broader societal segregation.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen: “This was a segregated line, and not just... if you were black, like, there was no space for you outside of Kimani for many of those years.” [23:56]
• Sarah: “We've heard this from the trailblazers... it wasn't just the line.” [23:56]

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Comparative Analysis: Harlequin Blaze vs. Contemporary Romance

[27:24] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah emphasizes the importance of understanding romance's history, especially with lines like Blaze that championed sex positivity. She laments that modern romance lines have lost this overt celebration of female sexuality and empowerment.

[33:00] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen concurs, expressing sadness over the regression in romance novels' portrayal of women's sexuality. She contrasts Blaze's empowered heroines with current trends where sexual experiences often lack depth and agency.

[36:14] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen critiques the current state of romance, where character development often trumps plot, leading to narratives that are less engaging and sex-positive compared to Blaze’s offerings.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah: “Romance is reflective. It is a mirror of what is happening.” [27:24]
• Jen: “This is, like, the first one. I was really excited to read it.” [87:52]

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In-Depth Book Discussions

1. "Let's Call a Truce" by Amy Buchanan (Sponsored Segment)

[15:20] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen reviews "Let's Call a Truce," highlighting its enemies-to-lovers trope between Juliana Ryan and Ben Thomas. The audiobook narration by Charlotte North is praised for effectively conveying Juliana's inner turmoil and fantasies.

[17:16] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah complements the review, encouraging listeners to explore the audiobook.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen: “Charlotte North does a great job capturing both Juliana's inner angst, but also her kind of dreamy fantasy life.” [16:39]

2. "His Girl Hollywood" by Maureen Lee Lenker (Sponsored Segment)

[36:53] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen summarizes "His Girl Hollywood," describing the rekindling romance between Arlene Morgan and Don Lazzarini amidst Hollywood's glamor and mob-related turmoil.

[38:38] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah praises the book's blend of historical setting and romance tropes like forced proximity and enemies-to-lovers.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen: “They are clashing constantly. He's trying to keep his secrets, she's trying to not unpack old wounds.” [37:05]
• Sarah: “It's the perfect title… but no. A reporter and an undercover philatelist.” [81:37]

3. "Just Watch Me" by Julie Leto

[40:06] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah discusses "Just Watch Me," detailing the plot of a private investigator accidentally wiring the wrong house and developing a complex relationship with the unintended target.

[43:17] Jen:
Jen praises the book for its unique plot twists and character development, mentioning its departure from typical romance narratives.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen: “It feels like nothing I've literally ever read before in a romance.” [43:52]
• Sarah: “She doesn't know who she is for 85% of this book.” [59:00]

4. "A Bloomy Head" by J. Winifred Butterworth (Sponsored Segment)

[60:30] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen reviews "A Bloomy Head," a Regency murder mystery intertwining romance and suspense as Kate Easting teams up with Dr. Thomas Holyoake to solve a family-related murder.

[62:44] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah lauds the book’s seamless integration of murder mystery elements with a heartfelt romance.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen: “This has like all of the great elements of a murder mystery, a really beautiful romance.” [62:44]

5. "Hot Island Nights" by Sarah Mayberry

[87:54] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen delves into "Hot Island Nights," exploring the tumultuous relationship between Martin and Elizabeth, who seeks her true identity after discovering unsettling truths about her past.

[88:00] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah is impressed by the book’s handling of themes like self-discovery and empowered sexuality.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen: “This was extraordinary. It was so playful and so fun.” [46:43]
• Sarah: “The sex itself was just, in a lot of these books, really playful.” [30:54]

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Reflection on Harlequin Blaze’s Legacy

[93:14] Jennifer Prokop:
Jen reflects on how Harlequin Blaze offered a sanctuary of sex-positive and empowered narratives, contrasting sharply with today’s romance novels, which she feels lack this vibrancy and affirmation of female sexuality.

[94:32] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah echoes Jen’s sentiments, emphasizing romance's role in combating negative perceptions of sex and advocating for a more overt celebration of female agency and pleasure in relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen: “It feels like were in a generation of romance where character is a placeholder for plot.” [35:27]
• Sarah: “You don't have to... like, if you're not feeling rewarded by your relationship, don't.” [72:15]

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[97:29] Sarah MacLean:
Sarah concludes by emphasizing the importance of remembering and studying lines like Harlequin Blaze to understand romance's evolution and advocate for more sex-positive and empowered storytelling in the genre.

[99:01] Narrator Clip:
The episode wraps up with a narrated excerpt from Macmillan Audio’s audiobook “Let’s Call a Truce,” providing a teaser for the next sponsored segment.

Closing Remarks:

• Sarah and Jen encourage listeners to provide feedback, express interest in exploring other old category lines, and promote their social media channels and Patreon for additional content.
• They also highlight an upcoming live conversation in New York about Rebecca Romney’s collection and her book "Jane Austen's Bookshelf."

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Key Takeaways

1. Harlequin Blaze’s Impact:

   • Introduced in 2001, Harlequin Blaze was pivotal in promoting sex-positive, empowered female heroines within the romance genre.
   • Blaze’s success highlighted a market demand for more explicit and character-driven romance narratives.

2. Diversity Issues:

   • Despite Blaze’s progressive stance on female sexuality, the line was predominantly white, reflecting broader racial segregation within publishing.
   • Harlequin’s Kymani Romance line catered exclusively to Black authors, further emphasizing industry divides.

3. Evolution of Romance Narratives:

   • The episode underscores a lamentable shift from character and sex-positive plots in lines like Blaze to contemporary romance novels that often prioritize character over plot and lack overt sexual affirmation.
   • Hosts advocate for a return to or reinvigoration of sex-positive narratives to empower readers and combat societal stigmas around female sexuality.

4. Book Analyses:

   • Detailed discussions of various Harlequin Blaze titles illustrate the line’s commitment to engaging plots intertwined with empowered, sexually confident heroines.
   • The hosts highlight both the strengths and problematic aspects of these novels, reflecting on how societal norms have evolved since their publication.

5. Call to Action:

   • Listeners are encouraged to explore and preserve the history of romance lines like Harlequin Blaze.
   • The hosts seek to foster a community that values and advocates for progressive, empowered storytelling within the romance genre.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sarah MacLean:
  “If you have been waiting for my start your romance today class to run, now's your chance to join it.” [00:00]

• Jennifer Prokop:
  “Harlequin introduces the Blaze. Now, I think it was actually, from what I can tell, probably like an outcropping of another line where they had, like, blazing hot.” [09:37]

• Sarah MacLean:
  “Romance is reflective. It is a mirror of what is happening.” [27:24]

• Jennifer Prokop:
  “This was a segregated line, and not just... if you were black, like, there was no space for you outside of Kimani for many of those years.” [23:56]

• Sarah MacLean:
  “These were people who are like, games. This is fun.” [31:01]

• Jennifer Prokop:
  “It feels like nothing I've literally ever read before in a romance.” [43:52]

• Jen & Sarah:
  Engage in playful banter about social media, life events, and appreciation for featured books.

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Final Notes

This episode of Fated Mates serves as both a nostalgic trip back to Harlequin Blaze's influential era and a critical examination of how the romance genre has evolved since. Hosts Sarah MacLean and Jen Prokop not only celebrate the empowering narratives Blaze offered but also highlight the industry's ongoing challenges with diversity and the need for continued advocacy for sex-positive storytelling in romance novels.

Listeners are encouraged to engage with the hosts through social media, Patreon, and upcoming live events to further explore and support progressive narratives within the romance genre.

Transcript

[Sarah MacLean]

Hi everyone, it's Sarah. I have a couple of things to say before we start the episode. The first one is, if you have been waiting for my start your romance today class to run, now's your chance to join it. I'm giving it on February 23rd at 1pm it is a two and a half hour long class live by Zoom, but the recording is available for one month after the class. And it's really a beginner level class. It covers everything, soup to nuts about writing your first romance novel. So if you have an idea or you've been kind of kicking around the idea of starting to write a romance, this is the class for you. You can learn more at sarah mclean.net writing romance. Or as always, you can click on the link in show notes. Another important thing. This week's episode covers a lot of ground and was very fun to record. But we do talk about a number of books that were published in the early 2000s. And we want to make sure that if you need content warnings, you check them before you go blazing off to read some of the books that we have selected this week and that we discuss. Books that were written in the early 2000s don't always have the same level of awareness that books written today do. And we want to make sure that you all understand that we're deep in the rabbit hole of romance history this week. Enjoy. Jen, I have a game for you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, all right, I'm ready.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay, so TikTok is who knows what Tick Tock is doing? Mark Zuckerberg is doing whatever Mark Zuckerberg is doing. And I'm sort of feeling like we're at the end of the world in terms of social media. And so it's like a literal matter of days before I'm just off all of it. Right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

I literally had a conversation with my, with my new editor or the editor of these summer storms, which is out in NetGalley, everybody, if you have a NetGalley account, you can request it. And I was like, what are the odds that social media is going to be literally anything in July?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And we basically netted out at Super Great. You have a podcast, Sarah, like well, well considered seven years ago anyway. But now there's doing this thing where like all of the Tick Tock people are now moving over to Instagram. And so my Instagram algorithm is like filled with content that I would never have seen before. But this morning I was, you know, laying in bed scrolling and thinking to myself, like, oh, some of this is interesting. Like, I didn't Follow anybody new. But, you know, I was feeling magnanimous. Feeling, like, generous with my time for these people who are trying to build I don't know what on Instagram now. And I stilled on a. On an Instagram video by somebody called and dot some t. Okay. And this was a game. And I was like, I'm gonna play this with Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay. I'm excited.

[Sarah MacLean]

You ready?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Think of a literary character. Character from a book, any way you want.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay. Wait, like a romance. Do I have to do a romance person?

[Sarah MacLean]

There's no the. That is the rule there. I have given you all the information you need.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

All right. You can name them if you want. This is not a. I'm not gonna guess or anything. It's not like a.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay. I was like. I was. I was like, o. Okay, I'm ready. What's next?

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

All right. Am I naming them then? Yeah. Do I have, like. How many do I do?

[Sarah MacLean]

Three. You're going to do three. No, you're just. By right now, there's just. This is. It shouldn't be this complicated, but it is, apparently. Just pick one literary character and name them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Minerva Dobs from Bet Me.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay, good choice. All right, now put Minerva away.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

Somebody totally different than Minerva. Go.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Stephen Dedalus from Ulysses.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, interesting. Okay, and now put Stephen Dedalus and Minerva away.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

And she's a third literary. Any literary character.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I feel like those first two are easier to come up with.

[Sarah MacLean]

Different, but any literary character.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay. Derek Craven.

[Sarah MacLean]

Derek Craven was my number two. But. So, okay, then. Then the woman goes, okay, now you have your three people. The person you said first is who you were in the past.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay. I was an actuary. Everybody you didn't know.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay. Like, past you, the person you said second. This is interesting. This is you now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

This year. And then the third person, Derek Craven, is who you will become in the future. Listen, that's the game.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I like the game.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's a personality game. It's a party trick. It's good at a. I bet it's good on a date or at a dinner party.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure, sure. Okay. All right. I like it. I like it a lot. Future Derek Craven. I like it for myself.

[Sarah MacLean]

All right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The ashes of the world are down around me, Sarah. But I found my lady love.

[Sarah MacLean]

You on your lady love? You're a little bit tacky.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, listen, why not? Why not?

[Sarah MacLean]

Why not?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I've left my game. Listen, I've left my gambling empire behind me, everybody. That's what you need to know. Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

Mine were Jay Gatsby.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

In the past, sure. Derek Craven in the present. A little bit tacky. I see it. And Paddington Bear.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You'Re like, I just want to hide.

[Sarah MacLean]

Sandwiches. And a nice, quiet family in London.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Cozy place. Yeah, that does seem okay. Well, I also have a nice, quiet, cozy place in London.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's a little more garish, but yours burns down. Sadly. You don't have marmalade sandwiches, but you do have a chef from France, so it all works.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That's true.

[Sarah MacLean]

Anyway, everybody, welcome to Fated mates. I'm Sarah MacLaine. I read romance novels and I write.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And.

[Sarah MacLean]

And it's a weird week, so we're doing what we can, and we're celebrating the past. The Harlequin Blaze.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, my God. So everybody, listen, if this is your.

[Sarah MacLean]

First podc, because you're one out for Harlequin Blaze.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, we pour one out for Harlequin Blaze all the time. And then we finally were like, let's pour out an entire episode for Harlequin.

[Sarah MacLean]

Blaze, because we really. We feel very nostalgic about Blaze, and I'm very excited to talk because.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

I feel like what I'm nostalgic for is not necessarily what I think I'm a nostalgic for.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think that's correct. So let's do it. Let's talk a little bit about the.

[Sarah MacLean]

Why don't you introduce our. Our listeners who may not know. To Blaze.

[Jennifer Prokop]

To Blaze. Okay, so everybody, I'm like, how far back do I go? Okay, let me start with the simplest. Simplest. Harlequin.

[Sarah MacLean]

When two people love each other, very. People love.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Perfect. Okay, so Harlequin as a publisher, has a lot of different. Publishes a lot of different kinds of books, right? So Adriana's books are published by Harlequin, but they are, like, you know, part of a series, but they don't, like, look like what? You know, for a long time, people would essentially go to the spinner racks at the grocery store, and there are all these different lines, right. Of category romances and category, like, kind of like a cheat sheet for that. It's just like it's capped at a certain word count usually. Like, I don't know, what are these? Do you think these are 50 or 60,000 words?

[Sarah MacLean]

Barely. I mean, 50. Around 50, 000 words?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, that's my guess. You know, and then there's, like, some sort of, like, thing tying this line together. So, like, if you look at a Harlequin Presents. That's the one with, like, the round window on the COVID They used to be white for a really long time. Now they're kind of black with the round window. You know, those are often, like, international. You know, the Spanish Italian billionaires.

[Sarah MacLean]

Pregnant mistress.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Correct.

[Sarah MacLean]

My favorite. My.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Whereas Harlequin Desires were more like. They were almost always stateside. They were more soapy, maybe. Right. Things like that. And then now a lot of the category lines actually are. There's, like, a lot like Harlequin, just regular romance is, like, pink. And it was. There was. Those are always closed door. So, like, if you knew how to.

[Sarah MacLean]

Crack the code of American. Harlequin, the American line, that's also quieter.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't think they do those anymore. Right. The thing I don't think I realized as, like, a kid is that these were like. And so. And like, each category had. You know, each line has, like, four come out every month or six or whatever it was. And, you know, and they change. I mean, I don't think this is the part I don't realize. Like, so Harlequin Presents has been around since the 70s, but other lines, like, come and go. And so in 2001, August of 2001, before.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right. Before the whole world went Jaywire.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Harlequin introduced the Blaze. Now, I think it was actually, from what I can tell, probably like an outcropping of another line where they had, like, blazing hot. And then they were like, oh, these are selling really well.

[Sarah MacLean]

Desire got. I think so some of the desires. Okay, so they were also. Because here's my thing. Desires are also red.

[Jennifer Prokop]

They used to be. Now they're yellow.

[Sarah MacLean]

Now they're yellow. Whatever. I don't. I. I.

[Jennifer Prokop]

If they even still exist now.

[Sarah MacLean]

But they were red. And you knew when you picked up a desire. And I know this because I did pick up many a desire. That they were going to have more sex in them than the other ones. So I do think you're right that there was, like, a move in the late 90s and, like, 2000 to hotter. Oh, Temptations. You're right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

We got. You got to take a picture of that so we can put it on the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This is from 1998. So basically, I think what happened is.

[Sarah MacLean]

And yes. So forget what I said about desire. It was.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No. So it was Harlequin Temptation.

[Sarah MacLean]

But I think people realized fast, like, okay, women specifically who are reading these books are looking for things that are sexier. They could tell that the books that were sexier were selling better. I see the COVID that you just showed a show which says Temptation Blaze. Hopefully that if you look down at the podcast, you can see this now. And then they must have just been like, let's just go online really.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, right, exactly. So, I mean, and by the way, what's really interesting now is like, some of the. Probably from what I can tell, like now, a lot of the really popular Harlequin category lines are. They're called Love Inspired, and these are essentially closed door. And some of them, I think, are explicitly like kind of Christian or Amish type romance. So, you know, Harlequin is, I think, has been for decades very adept at figuring out what the market is and trying to meet it. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And now I think what's happening is Harlequin's market has sort of been eaten for lunch by KU.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. So agree.

[Sarah MacLean]

Where we. In 2001, I mean, we didn't have ebooks, let alone Kindle Unlimited. And so we were getting sexier. There was sort of a move toward wanting the books to be sexier. And this was how we got it. These were rku. You'd buy all four of them every month and just tear through them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, and this is the part again, I'm gonna really like. This is for those of you who have were not there. So when you go back, if you ever get one of these books in hard. A hard copy of this book, a paper copy, you would essentially, like, tear out this card in the middle, right. And you would subscribe, right. And so you would get your four or your six blazes every month in the mail and like a brown box. And, you know, then you would have your four book. Four or six books from the month. And, you know, and you would figure out like, well, which one of these. Which one of these lines is my line? Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Mine has a scratch off. Blackjack. I'm gonna scratch it off right here. While we are. While we're excited, we're gonna see what I can win. Maybe I'll mail it in. Let's see what.

[Jennifer Prokop]

See what happens.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay, so here, this is what it says. It says, the lucky hearts game, scratch off and get free. Free books and a free gift. So if you get 21, you get two free books and a free gift. Here's my theory. I think I'm going to get 21.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And everybody gets 21.

[Sarah MacLean]

Everybody gets 21. And if you get 20, you get two free books. If you get 19, you get one free book, and if you get 18. So sorry, but you got to try again. So hang on, I'm scratching it off getting a coin. I'm getting a thing to do it. Wait, that didn't work. Is it possible that these scratch off things don't work after a while?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Maybe. Could be sure they're 20 years old now. There. I have one that says Lucky 7 Slot Machine Game. Just scratch off the silver box with a coin, then check.

[Sarah MacLean]

Hello. To see the gift. You want a silver box of mine?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, it's already so.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm so sorry, everybody, but I can't. We'll never know. We'll never know when I might have won. Oh, wait. Yes, I can. Hang on, hang on. It's happening. No, I'm just scratching a hole in the paper. Well, so that's that. I'm so glad you were all here for that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Exciting. I for sure subscribed to Blaze for a while. I remember earlier subscribing to Love Swept for a while in these subscription boxes. The other thing is, right, there was no Goodreads. There was no social media. There was. The way that you found out about upcoming books was also. Was also in the books themselves, right? So at the beginning of each book there was sort of a little like little letter to you from the editor or whoever, right? And then it would sort of introduce the book and then kind of be like next month in Blaze and it will tell you kind of like what.

[Sarah MacLean]

Books were coming, what's coming.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so the way that you would find out about other books was like, in the books themselves, right? Like there was a whole way in which, like, each. The book sort of Daisy changed, you know, from one to another.

[Sarah MacLean]

This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by Macmillan Audio Audiobook, publishers of Amy Buchanan's Let's Call a Truce.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So this audiobook is narrated by Charlotte north, which is perfect because it is a single point of view romance. And our main character is Juliana Ryan. The book opens in a prologue where she has just lost her husband and she has to go back to work. And she goes back to, like, a company that she used to work for. She has, like, a friend. She does, I think, like hr and well, when, like, the book opens, she overhears her new colleague, Ben Thomas, essentially questioning whether or not she should have been hired and whether or not she has earned the position that she, like, is now going to, like, reenter the company at. And so this sets up a real enemies to lovers vibe that then picks up two years later for, like, the main part of the story. And of course, Juliana has basically been hating Ben for two years for what she heard him saying. And Charlotte north does a great job capturing both Juliana's inner angst, but also her kind of dreamy fantasy life. Right. So there are times when we get, like, really into Juliana's thoughts, and sometimes those are, like, kind of steamy fantasies about men. Sometimes they're more like, I'm gonna kill this guy fantasies. But, like, just the tone of Charlotte's voice really captures that we are not, like, in the. Like, in real time. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

I love that. That's so hard.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think it's really hard to do. And I'm often. When I'm just reading on paper, sometimes I'll find myself thinking, like, how would an audiobook narrator do this? And it was really terrific. So I could totally tell the difference between Charlotte's kind of fantasy inner world versus her, like, I'm at the job now world. So this is a great audiobook. I think you' like it. And it's a great love story between a woman about a woman who really had the love of her life and lost him and now is like, am I really attracted to this jerk I work with? I mean, something I think is.

[Sarah MacLean]

I love that setup.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, it's terrific.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, if you would like to listen to let's Call a Truce, you can do that right now, wherever you get your audiobooks. And for Faded Mates listeners, macmillan Audio has a little treat. You can listen at the end of this episode for a sneak peek of let's Call a Truce.

[Jennifer Prokop]

If your podcast app supports it, you can click on the chapter title for a chance to win one of five copies of the audiobook, you can find the link on fadedmates.net as well. Thanks to McMillan Audio, Amy Buchanan and Charlotte north for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Sarah MacLean]

Let's talk about how you and I got the books that we went through this week, because.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

Ebay is a real joy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

In these. In these moments. So we. We decided we were gonna do it, and then I thought, I'm gonna go through my own collection. And I discovered, like, I basically had, like, a bunch of desires and temptation and, like, three blazes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, so you go first. I. That was not true for me.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then I went to ebay, and I was like, show me blazes. And I bought a box, a case of 50. A lot of 50 blazes from some person in South Carolina. Blessed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. I bought 25 for, like, 25 bucks.

[Sarah MacLean]

And a massive box arrived at the house, and Eric was like, what is this? And you were like, research a tax deduction.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Hello.

[Sarah MacLean]

And. And I open them up, and I Pulled them all out. And then I have this moment of, like, real, like, awareness that I was like, I had been. I was being past a collection that somebody had really, like, been devoted to. Because some of the books I'm gonna talk about today, like, these books are from like August 2003. Like. Yeah, these books have been in someone's house for 20 years.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. A lot of mine have never been read. Like you.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, no, mine are all. All of them are like, the spines are all cracked.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, I had a couple. Some. Half of mine were. And then half of mine were just like. You could tell that no one's ever opened them.

[Sarah MacLean]

She was like, I'm not into that. Whatever that was. Like, it was like that. I'm not into Cops. I'm not reading any of those books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. So mine was. Felt more like a random lot. Like they weren't all in order. Right. Like, and they spanned like a whole 10 years worth of time. Like somebody maybe. Who the heck knows? Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Some of them had like, Walmart stickers on them still or, you know, things like that. I also, though, did look through my own collection, my own. And I. And what I found is. So I had for a run in like 2000, from like 2009 to maybe 2011, which is when I probably got my first Kindle. They had a one click buy where you could get essentially the same thing. Right. Like, you would essentially get the. So I got one click buy August 2009, Harlequin Blaze. And it had six blazes in it.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. And they would have the cut. The covers were like. There were four covers or six covers on the. Yep. I remember I had like a handful of those.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So clearly I would sort of just kind of be like. Well, I'm not sure because you have to remember back then there was no KU.

[Sarah MacLean]

No, that was a cheap way to get six books. You would pay like 3.99.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm actually gonna look and see how much I paid for, like, one of those. So it was $10 for six books. And then I actually went to Fiction DB and I was kind of looking up like, yeah, some of the authors. And if they seemed familiar, I would Google them. And I had like a bunch of them, like, single title ones by like, Tony Carrington and Leslie Kelly. And there are a bunch of authors that I was clearly, like, kind of really committed to that I. You know, Jolie, where I ordered several. Sarah Mayberry. Several of their books as like, standalone ones at some point.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yep.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, also, we should. We should shout out these Are Blaze is the line that had the Tiffany Rice Halloween, Thanksgiving and New Year's or Christmas, New Year's books. We really like her Naughty Holiday, which is a Halloween book. I'm sorry, which is a Thanksgiving book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Those are from 2016.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yep.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So that was, like, near the end, say this, but.

[Sarah MacLean]

So Blaze lasted until May of 2017, and then it. It disappeared. And all of a sudden I start. While I was reading it, I was sort of thinking about just like. Like, what these books are and how they work and how they represent, like, sex and sexual. Like, sexual identity and sexual, like, comfort and what. How women and sex exist in the world and how completely revolutionary they are in a lot of ways. Like, because they are doing a very different kind of thing than all the other sex. All the other lines. And that was very cool for me. And I don't think I ever realized it when I was reading them in 2005.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, can I just say, before we do that, can I talk about one other thing? Like, as a bit of an aside, the other thing that's, like, really notable about this line is that it's almost entirely, from what I can tell, white characters. I did find one from Jade Lee, where the hero was not white, but the heroine is. And the thing that's, like, really interesting is kind of parallel to the run of Blaze was the run of Kymani Romance, which is essentially all. Was where all the black authors that Harlequin hired were writing, and that was that kymani ran from 2006 to 2019. And so, you know, I. It is important for us to, like, just sort of note that, like, this was a segregated line, and not just.

[Sarah MacLean]

A segregated line, but. And we've heard this from the trailblazers who've been on and taught the black women who are trailblazers who have been on to talk about their careers and romance. It wasn't just the line. It was, if you were black, like, there was no space for you outside of Kimani for many of those years.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And. And then it became a kind of remarkable thing when somebody was like, oh, my book is going to be a desire, or my book is going to be a temptation. It was a. A unicorn. You know, there are some sort of legendary stories about RWA during that sort of teenage. The early teen years, because I started writing, my first RWA was 2010. And for the first couple of years of that decade, you would go to RWA and people would sit. There was a very real sense of, like, the members of romance, the authors of romance, starting to really acknowledge the level of, of, of the disconnect between how these publishing houses were running their, their tr. Their romance imprints and how the world was changing. Right. Like, yeah, not to put too fine a point on it, but like, Barack Obama was president and you still couldn't sell. You know, and there we would sit in publisher showcases at RWA and an author of color would raise her hand and say, like, I, where, where should I pitch my, who should I pitch my, you know, inter, my, my interracial or my multicultural book to? And authors would say, with authors. Editors with their whole chest would say, well, you, we have a line for you. For you, quote. And like. And that was really the beginning of, I think, the end of rwa. It took a decade, but when you're looking.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I think this is, it's, especially now is, it's jarring. I found the experience of just like being like, wow. I, I, they really, with, like you said, with their whole chest were like, yeah, these are books about white people, you know, and so, so yeah, I just want to, like, I think it's impossible for us. Yes, we love this line, but like, we're two white ladies, right? There was always something for us here. And I think, you know, Blaze is it. That's not to say that you can't read whatever you want and that probably there are plenty of black readers who enjoyed these books or vice versa. But it really is pretty. An appalling part of romance's history. And I think, you know, one of the things that I think, you know, as we look at corporations rushing to resegregate. Right. I, I, I don't know, it just really felt, I felt away about it. I guess I would just say, right. Like it was very noticeable. And I just hope that, I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to say.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm just saying let's make sure we don't go back. That's what you're.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

I think also while we're in the mix of, of history here, Right. I think there is something to be said about how these books live within the, the history of sex on the page. You know, and I, I sort of started talking about this earlier, but.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I.

[Sarah MacLean]

Think one of the things that I keep coming to, I keep hearing especially now because everybody's sort of moving around on social media, so we're forming, we're, you know, all the groups are reforming and wherever the, the social media places are, but there's sort of this Sense of, you know, know your history. Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And what's interesting here is I think a lot of new readers and new writers to the genre aren't really aware of the fact that like we've been here before.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And it just was in print. Yeah. And so it's interesting because as I was reading them, I want to get into the books that, that we've been, that we, we picked because there are so many what's. There are a couple things that are really interesting to me. One is the authors who. I just didn't realize like so many of the like big author or the authors who like are romance household names now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

We're here.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I think that's really interesting because I think writing, I think the sex positivity of it all is very embedded in romance in general. Right. But I'm curious, I know that you have, you've probably had the exact same feelings because I started really thinking as I was reading them, like we don't have this level of sex positivity in like the like Hot Shots. The quick, the quick reads of 2025.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, it's. It was really interesting to read these books because. And what you mean by and like, look, don't get me wrong, like there are plenty of like one handed reads where like you know, the whole point of Jessica book is for you to get off. Right. Like there's not a lot of plot.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. But Jessica is a great example. Right. Because all those heroines are young, inexperienced. Many of them have never had an orgasm before. They're like sure. Getting lessons from. And listen, like this is kink. This is King Jessica's kink. Right. Like if you're into that, I'm so happy you have that. Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

But what's interesting about these books is these. I don't think I read a single version.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh no.

[Sarah MacLean]

In fact almost all of the books I read I'm going to talk about. I read more than I'm going to talk about. I would think all of the books I read were heroin for like the heroine initiates. Maybe all.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's not just that they aren't virgins. It's that the question of their sexual experience is not even of interest. No.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like these ladies, these are grown women having sex. Like they expect sex to deliver them pleasure and they know what they want.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. They know what they like. They've had great sexual experiences in the past. They have not been traumatized by sex and they have in several of the books I read had elder, elder characters, grandmothers, Encouraging them to go out and have great sex.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like family members who are like, you just deserve this. Go have a great time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Go have a great time. And the sex itself was just, in a lot of these books, really playful.

[Sarah MacLean]

These were people who are like, games. This is fun.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This is fun. Having sex is fun and it feels good.

[Sarah MacLean]

How can we make this even more fun? Is like every. These books. Amp it up. It's. And it makes me. It gets me to the point where, like, if you are out there and you wrote for Blaze. Because I did go through. I did the same thing you did where I went through, like, the list. And I don't know anybody on this list personally, though I do know I'm going to talk about Julie Lito and we do know her. And I might send her an email and see if, like, we can get an answer, which we'll put in show notes or something. But was this the brief? Because it feels like, like, were you specifically told, like, sex positivity is a cornerstone of Blaze.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It must be.

[Sarah MacLean]

Has to be, right? Like, not one trauma, not one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, never. No, these are not.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's really.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And like we've lost something is how it felt.

[Sarah MacLean]

But like a mind. Yes. A mindset for me as I was like reading these books from 2004, 2003, 2004, and going, like, we have regressed. Like, I don't, I don't know what happened. But, like, what I do know, and I know you and I talk about all the time is like, romance is reflective. Like, it is a mirror what is happening. And then of course, this week is happening. And like, it all feel like now I'm like, oh, of course. Of course we aren't talking about sex positivity in these books. And this is not to say, listen, I don't want to paint with a hugely broad brush because obviously that is not. Like, there are many of us who are writing sex positive people in books. But like, when you have an entire line at a major, major publisher just lifting up sex positivity, that is missing, that's gone now. There is no line that is doing that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Anything that has this much sex in it is kink often.

[Sarah MacLean]

And even if it is kink, there's like a layer of trauma.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Now here's what I'm also going to say. And this might get me into a little bit of trouble, but here we are. I also think the plots here are really fascinating, right? Because we are in a place in romance and in literature, in, like, room. I mean, whatever. I don't know about literature. I know about romance. We're in place in romance, where character is a placeholder for plot. Right now in 2025. Right. Often.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Explain what you mean by that. Say more.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm. David lynch died this week. And have you seen all of the memes of him going, if somebody's saying, please explain that, and him going, no.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sorry, Sarah, this podcast is not free. Do it. Do the work.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay. I think that we are in a position now where, in a lot of ways, and this is. I have a lot of feelings about how. I have a lot of sort of speculation about why this might be, but romance doesn't. Isn't plot driven. Arguably, romance was never plot driven, but I think for many, many decades, what romance was doing was building a plot that also had these, like, really rich characters, right? So you build a big world. It's that, you know, Heather Birch's thing, right. You build an impossible situation, a relentless threat, and you put unforgettable characters into it, and then you've got yourself a romance novel.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right?

[Sarah MacLean]

Like. And so the plot of it, the story and the plot were important in the sense that, like, there was conflict. There was a straight shot of conflict. It was a very clear, like, two character or a character who had motivation, who wanted, who had a goal in the book. And the book is about that character moving toward that goal, but also falling in love.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

You know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And character is the. Is the. The layer that makes the plot, that makes the book beautiful. Right. It makes the book full of feelings. Like, it makes the book relatable, if that's what you're looking for. The characters are. Are what fills out all of the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The.

[Sarah MacLean]

If you think of a plot as a skeleton, characters are the muscle and bone. I think now we are in a generation of romance, a sort of. Whatever this is. This. This romance era is more muscle and bone than it is skeleton, or, I'm sorry, more muscle and skin than it is skeleton. I don't know what I'm talking about. But, like, my point is it's more character than it is plot, right? So you can put two characters on the page and they sort of vibe together and they move forward and they go and they, like, do things together, but they're not. They're not moving in a straight, straight direction. They're not moving through a plot. Right. There's no beginning, middle, and end. It's sort of all middle.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know what it is? I think part of it is tropes. Like, I did not read a single one of these books and think what tropes this, Right?

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think that right now what happens is people think of a meet cute plus a trope and they are moving forward from a different place. And I think so. I think something about what we're diagnosing has to also do with like what people think of as being the building blocks of a good romance. This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Maureen Lee Lenker, author of His Girl Hollywood.

[Sarah MacLean]

So Maureen's books are all historical, set against sort of silver screen old Hollywood. And this one is no different. Arlene Morgan has always dreamed of being a movie director like so many women in Hollywood in 19 in the 1930s. And when she finally, finally gets her extremely rare shot, she is so excited and then immediately annoyed because she has been paired with a leading man who is a Broadway success named Dawn Lamont. Here's the problem. Arlene's known Don since she was a kid when he was Don Lazzarini, her neighborhood friend, her next door neighbor, her best friend, and somebody she shared all her biggest dreams with. They were gonna make it together and they weren't gonna let each other go. And Don took off one day to become a big Broadway star and Arleigh never heard from him again. Problem is, Jen, that now that he's a Broadway success, it's that the reason why is because he's been under the thumb of this like pretty heavily made gangster manager named Frankie Martino. And he hasn't gone home or seen Arlene or their families because he doesn't want them mixed up in whatever convoluted drama Frankie delivers every time. But now Arlene and Don are on the same set. They are clashing constantly. He's trying to keep his secrets, she's trying to not unpack old wounds. But neither of those things are going to work. And these two are going to have to possibly see each other through a pretty dangerous situation with the mob if they're going to find a happily ever after.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What a fun time. So if you are interested in His Girl Hollywood, it is available in print, ebook and audio wherever books are sold. Thanks to Maureen Lee Lenker for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Sarah MacLean]

When you think about like what is happening in like a very solid one handed read from ku, right? Because you have to compare this. This is apples to apples, right? Like these are one, these were our one handed reads back in 2003, right? So like if you're comparing these two notes, then you might have a one handed read from Ku. That's like, very fun. Very. The characters are really exciting, like, or interesting to read. And it's like next door neighbors who, you know, meet cute and then start and then bone, right? And they like get trapped in an elevator or they like, you know, the power or whatever it is, right? Like somebody. There's a leak and so they have to, you know, one has to get into the other one's bed. Like, whatever it is. There are. There are events that happen that push the book forward and get them to a place where they can. And we can. Whatever, Right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

In this. In these books, right? Like, I read one that was. I'll just talk about it. We might as well, right? I read Julie Leto, Julie Elizabeth Leto's Just Watch Me. Did you read this one?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I didn't, but I.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's a jet. I have this one because I know how you feel about voyeurism, right? These are neighbors, right? She's a private investigator and he is an undercover, like, agent from some, like, government. Government, whatever. They are across the street, neighbors, both spying on the same third party, right? And her, the meet cute here is, aside from the fact that they are neighbors, the meet you here is that she. Her, like whole team, her like video, her audio and video team comprised of her like, kind of like useless father and others, goes into the wrong house. House and wires the wrong house. And she wires the hero's house. So she flips on all the monitors. Like she's watching him be like hot in his house right? Now, I. Where I know we're gonna get to things you couldn't right now because this is a whole separate thing. But, like, that's a really clear plot, right? Like she is there. But there's a third thing. There's like an external plot. They are both watching a bad guy. Obviously something's gonna happen with this bad guy. But also the way that that external plot is established brings the two of them into contact, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And in the conflict.

[Sarah MacLean]

So, like, I guess what I'm saying is these books, part of why they go down so easy is because there's like a very tight plot. Like, the beginning of this book is she is looking for this. She has wired the wrong house. And, you know, for this bad guy to watch this bad guy. The middle of this book is she really likes watching the next door neighbor and he really likes being watched, right? And then the end of this book is the bad guy comes back, right? Like, the bad guy is vanquished. There's a little bit of danger. The two of them realize they're in love. But, yeah, I'm like, there is no fat to trim here.

[Jennifer Prokop]

There are so many cops in these books, Sarah. So many cops.

[Sarah MacLean]

So many.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, an insane amount of cops. I don't even know what to tell you about that. So I actually read another book by Julie Leto.

[Sarah MacLean]

Was it up to no good?

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, it was called Too Wicked to Keep.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, all right. Tell me about that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, wait. It was honestly amazing, Sarah, because she's good.

[Sarah MacLean]

These are good books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

These are great. These are great. So this is the third. So one of these. This is the third book in a series. And I picked this one because in the previous one, I think one of the brothers is like an. It's three brothers, right? And so I was kind of picking up what was going on by reading the third book. Right. And so in. They were all. They had the same father, but they didn't know each other until they were adults, these three brothers. And in Too Wicked to Keep, which was, by the way, entirely delightful. Wait until you hear about this, Sarah. You're gonna die.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm so excited.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, so what happens is. Is he. I thought this book was, honestly, I'm gonna tell you, almost extraordinary. Okay, so in this book, this series is called Legendary Lovers. He is an art thief. And the book opens with a prologue. His name's Danny, where he has stolen a painting from Abby's family and seduced her. And she. It is the night before her wedding, so she was cheating on her fiance with Dani.

[Sarah MacLean]

What?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And he comes to her. Wait, this book. I was like, whoa. All right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And this was sort of famous for writing, like, testing every line.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. So this is 2011. And so what happens is, this was. So he comes to her in the prologue and is basically like, yes, I stole this painting and I sold it. But I realize I've made a mistake because I'm. I'm actually really in love with you. And she was like, I don't think that you are. You used me, and you broke my heart. And I told the truth to this man I'm gonna marry, and he still wants to marry me, and so I'm gonna marry him. And you're like, wait, that's not the way this goes. And the book picks up five years later where she had. She happily married that man and was with him for four years after telling him the truth about what she'd gone through and how she cheated on him. And then he died in a car accident. And now it's a year after his death, and the news is that the painting that Danny stole from her family is gonna be out. Like, it's essentially is gonna be out on the black market. And it's a painting of her grandmother in the nude. And it's clear from the painting and the painter that her grandmother must have had an affair with the painter when it was painted, which means that her, like, father is going to be embarrassed if the painting comes to light. It was, like, a privately held item. And so she goes back, she finds Dani, Abby finds Danny, and is like, I want you to steal it back from the guy who's gonna put it on display, because I want it back so I can prevent my father from being embarrassed. And the thing is, is it's like she was never, like, at some point, they talk about her husband and he. And she was like, yeah, we listen. We were really happy. We had great sex. Like, he. I told him why I felt drawn to you, and he realized that he had sort of treated me with kid gloves and neglected me. And he really was determined to, like, like, listen to what I said about what I needed from our life and fix it. And we were so happy. And he happen to die, and that's tragic. And I was, like, really amazed by it, to be honest with you. Like, I was like, this feels like nothing I've literally ever read before in a romance. Now here's the other great part. Dany's brother from the previous book has given him this family heirloom ring. And, like, Danny can't get it off of the whole book. And it's this, like, it has, like, an emerald and some opals or something, and, like, a weird scratch. And halfway through, Abby's like, tell me about this ring. And she's like, it almost looks like, like, a little. This mark. There's a scratch on this emerald or whatever. And he's like, yeah, it's a Z because it inspired Zorro. Like my great, great, great, great grandfather. Perfect.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I was like, no notes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What? Amazing. No notes. That's how it felt. Like, just here. It was so playful and so fun. And the whole restoration of their relationship was really about him, like, wanting to be a better man. And the thing about this ring, and you see this often, like, who writes those?

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, God.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The heart of a. Like a heart of a duchess necklace or whatever. Christy Caldwell. Christy Caldwell has a whole series where there's, like, a necklace that gets passed down from woman to woman, and something about it, like, attracts your mate. In this series book, the ring essentially is, like, inspires the wearer. As long as it's A descendant of, you know, the original Zorro to, like, essentially do the right thing.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, my God.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And then the end is like, his two brothers and their wives come from the previous books and they all, like, go out dressed up like fucking Zorro to a costume party and steal back the painting. And I was like, I. It was astounding.

[Sarah MacLean]

And what's amazing about these books. So you had a painting or, like, I had the. You know, that first one was a bad guy. But, like, in her up to no good. We'll just stay with Julie Elizabeth. So in this one, and this is the thing, I. I want to talk about a sort of theme that started to emerge for me in a lot of these books. And this is why I. I often feel like when I say things like, oh, we're in a arc of romance where, like, character is, like, subbing in for a plot. People get mad and, like, you know, cranky with me. But I don't mean that you have to write a book where, like, the whole everybody acts like Zorro. I mean that you have to have, like, a beginning, middle and end. Right. And so what's interesting is in a bunch of these books, I feel like Blaze is a good study session for anybody who's, like, just trying to figure out, like, how do I create, like, a very easy plot that I can then like, hang character and sex on. Right. And because in this one, Mickey the heroine.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What's the name of this one again?

[Sarah MacLean]

Sorry, it's called up to no Good. And I want to talk about something else, too, about it. So she gets a book called Sexcapades. And it's like, like a. Basically, it's like sex coupons. Like, it's like a book of, like, sexy things to do with your lover. And, like, through a confluence of romance reasons, she and this, like, very wealthy, very handsome man are alone for seven days. And he basically is like, well, you have this book, and, like, it's seven. We have seven days. So why don't we just do the stuff in the book for seven days? And it's like the very. The flimsiest of, like, structures. But, okay, here's what we have here. Yeah, we have a ticking clock. They are only together for seven days. There are reasons why they can't be together afterward. They are having, like, the most fun doing all this, like, sexy stuff from this book. And there's just this sort of sense within it of, like, you know, what you're in for. You know, that there's. There's an end to it and you know that at the end there's going to be a feeling, a moment where they have to change everything because they have been changed by love. Right, Right. It's a very quick, you know, it's a very quick situation there. And I also, while I'm here, I want to say, like, I just want to talk about a couple of these because I pulled a bunch of them. So, for example, there is Anything Goes by Debbie Rollins. November 2003. And these are in this case, Carly, the heroine decides that she's going to take, like, do one week at, like, a sun, like a resort, like a singles, Like a sandal style, like, singles resort. She's the pastor's daughter back at home, and she's gonna take a job as a teacher. But, like, this is her one shot. She's giving her herself again, seven days in paradise. Of course she gets there and her childhood friend from her hometown, Rick, is there and she's like, oh, he's ruining everything. Because, like, I had a plan for, like, anonymous sex for seven days before I start my real life. And Rick's like, I don't have a problem with that plan. Why don't you do it with me, though?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Let's go.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so here we are. Like, he, of course, like, they knew each other when they were younger. It's now 12 years later. He can't get over how great she looks in a bikini. Like, like. But it's. And again, ticking clock. Seven days. Like, right, here we go. Then they go home to, like, real life. And then this one. Okay, this. This other one that I pulled. Kimberly Ray's the fantasy factor. April 2004. Sarah Buchanan and Bull rider Jenny ready for his name.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Tell me.

[Sarah MacLean]

Houston. Jericho. Stop.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I love you. Romance.

[Sarah MacLean]

Stop it. Stop it. They want like a million years ago, watched a porno together. And then during that time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Porno is so.

[Sarah MacLean]

I know they committed to. They committed to reenacting the seven scenes in that movie, but they only got three then. And so now. And Houston left town and it was like a whole thing. Now Houston is back, though, and he's like, you owe me four more scenes. Like, this is all I'm saying it does. I'm not asking for, like, you're like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm not asking for much, am I?

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm just saying, like, just.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I just want the great, great grandchildren.

[Sarah MacLean]

To hang Zoro on is all I'm saying. Hang the characters on something.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Anyway, so I mean, like, listen, please. Bull, right? Houston, Jericho. I mean, this is probably where we should talk about, like, the gender essentialism of it all. Because, you know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, I will say listen. And that was the part where I, I did find myself thinking like, sore.

[Sarah MacLean]

Is a long time ago.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right. And. And I found myself like. So for example, in the Zora one I talked about, there's a scene where he, for romance reasons, has no. Does not have any, like a change of clothes. Right. He's just in his.

[Sarah MacLean]

Because why would he. He doesn't need them, Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He doesn't need clothes. He really doesn't. So she's like, we have to go out shopping. They're in Chicago. We have to go shopping on Michigan Avenue to get you more clothes. And he, and he's like, we can't do that. Like, people will recognize us together or whatever. And so he like, essentially like dresses up like her gay best friend. But it was never like really played for laughs. But it did feel very much of a time.

[Sarah MacLean]

I. I have been writing now for 15 years, 16 years. And like, I'm certain that if I went back and read my first book, there would be things in there that I would not write the same way anymore. Right. And this is maybe where we can start, where we can talk a little bit about like some of the things that are in these books that like, I don't think we would see. Yeah. So for example, in that Just Watch Me the voyeurism book, like the fact that like they have mistakenly wired his entire house with cameras and he is fully nude in many scenes right now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We'D be like, this is a real huge consent issue. Yeah, Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like when he finds out, first of all, he's known for. Because he's not an idiot. He's known. And second of all, he's like, no, it's hot. Right? Like, you like it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And yeah. There's this moment where you're like, oh, like this is great. Like, this is a great moment of like. And then I. Then I think too, at the same time, we're like, well, people are writing this right now. Like a lot of this dark room and stuff is all like stalkers and surveillance.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, and so like. But this feels like light hearted and like, it feels like the, like, you know, the, the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, because she is. I think it also is different because she's the one watching him versus vice versa. Right. I think there's a way that we as romance readers will sort of unthinkingly accept like something that if it was in the reverse, maybe we'd feel icky about.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, can I talk about. So let Me talk about this one?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right.

[Sarah MacLean]

I read Whisper by Nancy Warren.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay, now, listen, this. Okay, there's so much about this book that's bananas. Okay, so this was published in. This is July 2002. I really was deep. And I was deep in the blaze of the Blaze catalog. Okay, so Jenna, our. Our heroine is in New Orleans for a. Like, a conference. Like, a legal. She's a lawyer. She's in there for a legal conference. And she's. It begins with her outside of, like, in the dark outside of this conference. And she is sitting on a bench or standing somewhere, and she can hear, like, on the other side of a bush. She can hear, like, two people fully about to go at it. And when it begins, she's like, wait.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Can I just tell everybody. I just want you all to appreciate that I did not make a joke about her probably still having a bush nowadays. Everything changed.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's terrific. So the. Okay, but here's the deal. So she can hear this. This man, and he's basically like, I want you. And he's like. He's, like, dirty talking another woman. And she's. At first, she's like, I should leave. Like, I should, because I'm doing. Like, this is an inherently, like, wrong thing for me to be sitting here listening to these two. But then, like, they get far enough down the road that she's like, if I leave, they're gonna. Like, I can't get out of here now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right.

[Sarah MacLean]

They're gonna know, right? And then somebody comes out, right? Is that, like. And he's, like, in it. Like, they are, like, talking. He's like. He's like, they are fully about to. And somebody comes out and, like, calls and calls her name, and she's like, not. Not the heroine's name, the other woman's name. And then, like, that woman takes off, and then he takes off. And then she comes up the steps, and at the top of the steps, she sees, like, her, like, best work friend Nick, who is just standing there, like, I think, possibly smoking a cigarette, like, this is where we are, right in the world. And so. And she's like, oh, hey. And he's like, hey, what were you doing out there? And she's like, oh, you know, I was just taking a walk. Like, did you see somebody come this way? Do you see, like, a man come this way? And he was like, no, I haven't seen anybody. Right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And she's like, how do I find this? Like, that man, like, was so dreamy. And he was like, it was Clear that it was like a first tryst in the garden. And it was like going to be a one night nights, like a one off thing. And she's like, I want to meet him. Like, I want to have a one night stand. And so she goes inside and like, she can't figure out who it was. And then she goes to a masquerade ball. And this like masked dude, she dresses as a mermaid, he's dressed as Neptune, he comes up to her and he basically like whispers in her ear and is like, I know you were there. I know you saw us. I know you heard us, like, do you want to? And she's like, yeah, I do. And then so they do, which is terrific. No notes. And then she goes to work, like back to her law work where, like, then she gets a note in the mail that's basically like, hey, I rented this hotel room on Friday night. Why don't you come and meet me at this hotel room? We can keep the lights off. You don't have, like, we don't have to know who each and we don't have to know each other. And he's like, you're Neptune. And she's like, yeah, okay. So she goes and she fucks him in this hotel room on the Friday night. And then it becomes a standing thing. And of course it's been. It's her work friend Nick, of course. And we know as readers that it's her work friend Nick who is slowly going. Descending into madness because he is jealous of himself. My favorite. My favorite. I love that so much. What a dummy, right? And so he's like, wait, on the one hand I get to sleep with her every Friday night, but also, like in real life, like, they kiss and they're sort of like flirting. And every Friday night he's like, slightly disappointed that she comes to him because she. He wants her jealous Nick over Neptune. Anyway, it's chaos and so fun. But here's the truth, Jen. She doesn't know who she is for 85% of this book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he fully does. And I'm like, oh, you could never write this anymore. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by J. Winifred Butterworth, author of A Bloomy Head.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So this is the first in the Regency Cheesemaker series. And what we have is newly widowed Kate Easting. She has been cast out from her dead husband's family, right? Like, they just think she is no good and they send her back. She has no choice but to go back to her own family's farm. And there she essentially has a bunch of chaotic siblings who are all up to their own business. And she is determined to sort of help save the farm by using her cheesemaking skills. When a decapitated body is found near the farm, Kate has no real choice but to like, sort of team up with Dr. Thomas Holyoake. Her twin has returned from the continent with Thomas and he is recovering from a really gruesome injury at their farm and Kate is nursing him back to health. And the thing is, is Kate realizes that the murder, like this murder, the finding this dead body on her farm, could bring untoward attention to the farm and to the Easting family. At the same time that Thomas is afraid that the body is going to bring more attention to him. He has left England where the life and agenda that had been determined for him. He's like, I'm never going back there. And so he is really like. They find solace and comfort in each other, but also like real fear of like, what's gonna happen when the outside world discovers potentially like their love for each other. But also just like Thomas in general, his family might find him and that would be a huge threat to him as well. So this has like all of the great elements of a murder mystery, a really beautiful romance, a bunch of chaot, like really over the top siblings. This is a book that I think really seamlessly threads like kind of fun in the family, but also like a very real sense of danger to the family. And I think that it's a really great read.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, if you're looking for a great read, you can read J. Winifred Butterworth's A Bloomy Head right now in ebook. Wherever you get your ebook books. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Jay Winifred Butterworth for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I also ordered a big stack of them and then I was kind of like, which ones was I buying? So I went through and I found like those groups of them. But I also was like looking through and like, do I recognize these names? And I. One of the authors I both them bought the most often was Tony Carrington. So I had like six or seven that I bought like Harlequin Blazes. And it turns out that Tony Carrington was a husband and wife writing team. And hold on, let me find this. A husband and wife writing team of Lori and Tony Cariani.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And Tony, I think actually died at some point and so I think she might have written on her own for a while. And they also wrote under another name. They wrote tons and tons and tons of books. And in this book, I picked up because I bought it. It was part of the great restoration of my Kindle of July 17, 2016. I'm sure I told this story before, which is at one point, I realized that, like, hundreds of books were missing from my Kindle. And I went on to, like, Amazon and was like, what happened to my books? And they're like, you deleted them? And I was like, that is absolutely not true. You can. Can drop dead. And so now, like, I have, like, literally, like, pages of my content and devices. That was like, you bought this book on July 17, 2016, because that's when they restored.

[Sarah MacLean]

That's when they gave you everything.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, because I went through a fit. That's why I never delete anything from my Kindle, everybody. Because I fear that happening again. But anyway, I bought this one called Shameless. And the re. And the reason I went back to read this one, it was a whole series. And about all three of the series. This was the third one. It was an extreme blaze. And I was like, well, Jennifer, let's find out what that's all about. And this came out in 2008. And what happens is there are three friends. Nina, Gage, Patrick Gage, and then Kevin. And they own, like, a store together in Ann Arbor. She runs the coffee shop. Kevin runs the bookstore. Gage runs, like, the CD store. I was like, oh, none of you are in business anymore? Yeah, because he's the musician. And in this book, Nina, they're all sitting around and they're talking about, like, their sex lives, and they are giving her a hard time because she has this pattern where she, like, gets with this guy, she's super hot and heavy with him, then she dumps him, and then that guy is constantly, like, mooning over her by showing up at the store and, like, trying to get back with her. And they're like, why are you doing this? And she's like, sometimes a girl just needs to get late. And they're like, okay, well, let us set this up for you. And essentially, there's, like, talk. Potentially, the three of them would have a threesome. And I was like, in Harlequin Blaze. But what happens?

[Sarah MacLean]

I read one, too, where, yeah, like, there's, like, she's bi, and she's, like, had multiple women.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Flat out. The talk is like, maybe the three of us would do this. And Kevin's the one who's kind of like, I don't know. I just think that's too much. And so Gage says, well, I'll tell you what, Nina. Why don't we, like, arrange for you to have, like, just some anonymous sex. That way you won't have to worry about it. And it's clear that it's gonna be one of them. And she gets this note that's like, leave your door open at midnight and put on a blindfold.

[Sarah MacLean]

Perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so then there's this intense sex scenes where she has no idea who she's fucking and she wants to have another night, but she doesn't know how to figure out which one of them it is. And the thing that's also really interesting is it's Patrick, everybody. No, it's not Patrick. Sorry, it's not Gage. Patrick Gage. It's Kevin is the one she sleep who shows up. But you also get Gage's point of view as he's essentially playing matchmaker to these two and kind of constantly like. And so she doesn't know, but the other two do know. And I was like, I wasn't mad about it at all. Right. But I was like, it was really interesting because of course she does agree to it. Right? Like, she does say, like, yes, I will agree to this. And she opens the door. But it was like a really interesting. It was a. Again, like a very atypical kind of.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yep.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, romance in that way.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay, I have another. I have an atypical one, but for con, for structure. Okay. So this one. So Silent Desires by Julie Kenner. So Julie Kenner is also Jay Kenner. It feels like anybody who was reading, like, K. Kindle books, like indie published K. Kindle books in, like, the post 50 Shades was reading Jake Kenner. Right. So this premise is Joan Benetti, the heroine, has written essentially a book book for women. And I think I felt like this was so, like, fascinating. This again is August 2003. She's written a book. It's called. I forget what it's called. But basically the premise is, hey, women, the reason why your relationships are so shitty is because you're giving it up too easily. Like, so why don't you tell your husbands and boyfriends that they have to treat you better and then you'll have sex with them. Like, don't just have sex with them for no reason. And so she has written this book and it begins with her on, like a shock jockey, kind of like radio show. And she goes, and, like, a bunch of dudes are calling in to basically be like, your book is trash. It ruined my Relationship. My. My girlfriend left me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Whatever.

[Sarah MacLean]

Somebody calls in, threatens to kill her on the. On the air, and she hangs up. And the shock jock, who, like, is a completely different person when he's not on the air is like, listen, I really feel like you are in a situation here where you need to hire some security. And he gives her a card, and he's like, call these people. They're great. Trust me, I know about security. I mean, like, what was. It's. There was a lot going on here that was really interesting. Just, like, from the beginning. So she calls. She calls another guy. So she calls. I'm sorry, I'm describing a totally different book. I'm describing. I just realized this is, like, literally.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The harlequin race problem, though.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm describing what a Girl Wants by Jamie Sobrato, which is not. I'm not going to talk about structure. This is just a sort of separate thing. So anyway. And the character's name is Jane. Listen, everybody. Here we are. So she calls, and now Luke calls Luke that. So she calls Luke and she gets this, you know, this guy to come and talk to her about security. She. They have a discussion about whether or not she can hire him. It turns out his ex girlfriend left him for the same reason. Because of the book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Because of the book.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he's like, listen, Jen, there's only some. You know what he's gonna say. He's like, listen, I'm gonna show you how great sex can be. And also, I'll protect you. I guess, like, it's a little bit. Whatever.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Blaze reasons.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so these. Yeah, for. For Blaze reasons. And so she's basically like, I don't know. Like, I really feel like I should have the courage of my convictions and not have sex with you. And then he's like, well, but what if I took my shirt off? And she's like, okay. And so they have, like, the sexiest. They just, like, bang all over. And he's. And she starts to fall for him. And then, of course, she goes through this sort of, like, intellectual thing where she's like, well, you know, like, what. How does sex, like, impact this relationship? And it turns. And then, of course, like, one of these guys comes, like, there's a bad guy who likes, wants it, has a vendetta, and, like, comes back at the end to, like, fight her and to, like, to. To damage her. And, you know, Luke saves her, and boom, they're in love. And listen, it's interesting because I really love. Like, there are a lot of moments in this book Where I was like, oh, this is like an interesting kind of Liz Estrada thing where, like, she's discussing, you know, whether or not sex. You know, how sex should. Should be in a part, in a partnership, or in a relationship. But then what she really comes down to is, like, don't have sex with your partners if you don't really want to. Like, I like, this heroine wants to have sex with this guy because he's like, she's into him, he's into her. They're gonna have a great time, they're gonna have fun. She's gonna come. It's all gonna be great. And she starts to really feel like he does respect her. But the more important thing here is like, like, hey, women.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

You don't have to.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, and I'm like, that's sort of transgressive, like, overtly saying that on the pages of our romance novel.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. You don't have to.

[Sarah MacLean]

And if you're not feeling rewarded by your relationship, don't.

[Jennifer Prokop]

A one that I would say kind of has a similar. In a. In an interesting way, like, kind of thematic. Maybe it's like. It's inverse. Was. So I also bought a lot of books by Leslie Kelly. Like, is on my Kindle. There were tons of them. And I reread one called. I assume I read it the first time. I don't know, like. Right. Called Play with Me. And in this one, what was really interesting about this one is it was kind of a forerunner of the, like, it had a really. I want to see what. When this was published, because it had a. Like a kind of. She'd been cyberbullied a little bit by her previous boyfriends. So she's a pilot, like, a small regional private airline that her uncle owns. Her name's Amanda Bauer, and she has had a run of really bad luck with old boyfriends, and so much so that she was just kind of a good time girl. She's really adventurous. She loved sex. She loved just, like, having, like, casual relationships. And they would always want more from her. And it's one of them found, like, essentially makes a Facebook group that's basically like, Amanda's exes and all of these guys she's dumped have joined it, and it really, like, has hurt her. Cause she was like, I never was with these guys. You know what I mean? So she's just kind of like, whatever. I can't deal with this. I'm too busy flying around the country for my job. And so she has. She's in Pittsburgh. She's and her, she has like a regular, like, standing appointment with this, like, group of older women who like, fly around and do stuff because they're rich old ladies and she really likes them. And it's Halloween, and so she's dressed up. Like they're kind of like. This is like a recurring group of women. She really enjoys, like, their trips. And they're like, oh, we're going to a Halloween party. You should like, come too. Because she sometimes will hang out with them because she flies them like they're back, whatever. And so she's like, wearing essentially like an old timey, sexy stewardess costume with, like, hot pants and like white, like, like go go boots. And then the flight gets canceled, but she's able to pick up another customer. And of course, this is Rhys Campbell. And she flies into Chicago for this business meeting. And they are like, they instantly hit it off and they, like, land at O'Hare and they go to. He's going to also a costume party. So they stop somewhere in O'Hare. She, of course, is flying in and out of her home airport and they get him, like a pilot's costume. So they go together and then they just have great sex. And it's just going to be one night. And then the next chapter picks up and it's like Veterans Day. And they agree to, like, meet in Cleveland for a night, right? And then it's Thanksgiving. And essentially with each one of, like, so it's holidays, right? And with each successive holiday, like, their weekends become, like, their overnights become weekends. And, you know, he and. And Reese is really interested in her as a person, but she's so wary of love. She's like, all I can do is sex, right? And then they have. I think it's like Christmas to, like, New Year. So they're gonna spend a week together in Vegas. And she, like, goes out and she's gonna dress up, like, as a call girl. Cause every. Every single. They have like, something sexy, like playful, right? Like one day she pretends she's like, what at once. She's like, I'm gonna be the investigator and I'm gonna interrogate you. So every, you know, it's like so playful, so fun. And so she's like, meet me out on this corner, you know what I mean? In an hour.

[Sarah MacLean]

I love that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And they basically, like, witness a crime happening. Cause I was kind of like, how's this happening? Like, what's gonna happen here? They witness a crime and on the radar of some bad guys. But the whole plot was very much like that tension between. If I am a person who is really comfortable with my sexuality, and often men are not satisfying to me as anything other than sexual partners. How do I let myself, like, fall in love with this man?

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it was. I, I. Okay. It uses the word hooker, but.

[Sarah MacLean]

You know, okay, I mean, this is the thing, right? Again, we're just like, listen, just telling.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You how it is, everybody, but this is.

[Sarah MacLean]

We're doing some historical work for you. Some, Some, like, we're doing. We're making sure that there is a. There is information out there about.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But I just found myself thinking, like, some of the stuff is completely bonkers and we're doing better now. But, like, I don't understand why these women are more like, I know myself and what I like and what I want from a partner and feel great about it. And I. I am. It is sexy and playful and fun, and I am in charge.

[Sarah MacLean]

Why can't we have both, is my question.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know. This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Jill Chalvis, author of Of Better Than Friends.

[Sarah MacLean]

Jill Chalvis knows how to write a romance novel, Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, she does.

[Sarah MacLean]

This one sounds great. It's forced proximity, enemies to lovers, small town, second chance, all the tropes that everybody loves. And here's the deal. Olive, our heroine, her parents live off the grid, which sounds terrible. They've gone missing kind of outside in the wilderness. And she has no choice but to call in every favor she can find to figure out what's happened to them and to track them down. Down. The biggest favor she's going to have to ask is of Noah Turner, her ex. The only person she really trusts implicitly and a special investigative agent for the National Park Service. So Noah is used to doing this kind of job, finding people in the middle of nowhere. Um, but he was recently injured on the job, and now he is recuperating at home with his very loving but very smothering and nosy family. And he is looking for a great distraction, but he is not looking for a great distraction. As sort of overwhelming as Olive, who comes back looking fabulous as after years of being away and after breaking his heart and sort of upending his life. No matter. He is looking to get out of this house. And so she's given him an avenue to do that. But the question is, is risking leaving on this journey with Olive to find her parents, also risking his heart. And I think Jill's gonna take care of us. I'm not worried about it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Jill would Never let us down. So.

[Sarah MacLean]

No, she would not.

[Jennifer Prokop]

If you are interested in Better Than Friends, it is available in print, ebook and audio wherever books are sold. You can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Jill Chalvis for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Sarah MacLean]

I want to talk about. Wait, I'm not going to tell you the title of this one. I'm not even going to really talk about it. But I want to tell you the plot.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Sarah MacLean]

Then I want you to guess the title. Okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Another game. Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay. This is. Okay. Gwen Chastain. It comes from a family of flatists. She sells. They sell rare. Rare stamps.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

And in this book, millions of dollars of rare stamps have been stolen. And Gwen, like stamps on envelopes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Stamps?

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, they're canceled. It's canceled postage. Why are you asking me questions like this?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sorry, I just want to make sure we weren't talking about like. Okay, okay. Stamps. I'm writing. Ready?

[Sarah MacLean]

Here's the thing. The thief has taken these stamps to a Vegas casino. Don't ask questions. Gwen has to masquerade as Nina, a poker playing bombshell, of course, to get in with a very sexy reporter, Dell Redmond, who is also looking for these stamps. Stamps. And two of them are going to have to work together. No, wait. I know. To find the stamps and win the day.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, wait.

[Sarah MacLean]

Before you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We just recently watched When Harry Met Sally. And so all I could think of is Billy Crystal talking about Sheldon. Right? You mean Del?

[Sarah MacLean]

You think Del Redmond is not. You don't have good sex with Del. I recovered every now given you the plot of this Harlequin Blaze about two people undercover in a Vegas casino searching for canceled stamps. What? I don't even know what I would give you if you guessed the title of this book, but it is the perfect title.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, my God. Okay. Okay. U.S. mail.

[Sarah MacLean]

So close.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Damn it. What is it?

[Sarah MacLean]

Certified Male. M A L E. I was so close. By Kristen Hardy. Certified Male. Listen, sometimes the world just gives you a gift. And the title, Certified Male. About a stamp romance is. Honest to God, when I looked at it and then I turned around and I was reading the back cover copy and it said millions of dollars of rare stamps are gone. I was like, if one of these is in the post office, I'm done. This is like the perfect example of how this goes. But no. A reporter and an undercover philatelist.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I hope you are proud of me for being as close as I was.

[Sarah MacLean]

Incredible. I don't think I could have Done it. Okay, but also, I have a question for you. Did any of yours come with this sticker on the COVID that says put your guy on the COVID Oh, no. So apparently in 2003. And listen, everybody, I need you all to put on your sleuthing caps to. To go undercover in a Vegas casino and find out for us or. Or accidentally wire the wrong house across the street. Tweet and find out for us if you know anybody at all who might be connected to this contest. So the big question in the back of this book is, is your man too good to be true? The answer is definitely not. No man is too good to be true. Okay, here is what it is. If your man is hot, gorgeous and romantic, he could be a harlequin blaze series cover model.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, boy.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm not gonna say anything about this. No, actually I am. It says he could be a harlequin blaze series cover model. And model is spelled M O D E L L. It is canadian.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sarah.

[Sarah MacLean]

The canadian spelling of model. Grand prize winners will receive translation.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So sorry.

[Sarah MacLean]

Grand prize winners will receive a trip for two to New York city to shoot the COVID of a blaze novel. They will stay in the luxurious plaza hotel. Plus they'll receive 500 in U. S spending money. Runners up will receive 200 U. S to spend on a romantic dinner for two. It's easy to enter in 100 words or less. Tell us what makes your boyfriend or spouse a true romantic and perfect candidate for the COVID of a blaze novel. Novel. Include your submission and two photographs. Now, listen, we surely know someone at harlequin.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We can.

[Sarah MacLean]

I really feel like what it is so this contest. So here's the problem. I don't have the books. All the books I have are like 2002, 2003, 2004. I don't have the books for that would have come of this in my box. The contest closed September 30, 2003. So I would think like by the end of the year 2004, we might be seeing these. So listen, if you are out there and you have a collection of blazes from late 2004, early 2005, could you please, yes, please take a look and see if the put it in the lily library. We need to know our real people because amazing. I don't know how else we'd find out because like the line doesn't exist anymore.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, but harlequin exists.

[Sarah MacLean]

Harlequin does exist. We should send an email to somebody there. Anyway, if you're out there and you're listening and you Know anything about. Put your guy on the COVID Listen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

If there was any justice in the world, there would be a Harlequin hotline. Like, there's a Turkey Butterball hotline.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, my God. A Harlequin hotline would be the greatest. Sure. Can I work it?

[Jennifer Prokop]

You and I. You, me, Rebecca Romney, we are the Harlequin High.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm also seeing Rebecca. Oh, wait. Speaking of, let me tell everybody about this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I still have one book to talk about.

[Sarah MacLean]

I don't know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We do love her.

[Sarah MacLean]

Since you brought her up.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I did.

[Sarah MacLean]

Rebecca Romney is amazing. She is the rare book collector who collected the romance collection that is now at the Lily Library that Jen went to visit. And she has a book coming out called Jane Austen's Bookshelf. And it's basically about all the women writers who Jane Austen was inspired by as a writer. And many, many of these writers no one has ever heard of before. We don't know their names. Their books are not in the Lily Library, or they probably are, actually. But, like, their books are not sort of very well known. And so what Rebecca did is she collected all of the names of the authors who. Jane Austen was inspired by women authors, and she's written a book about them. And she and I. If you are in New York on February 18, we are going to be at the Strands rare book room in conversation about that book and all of those authors.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Wait a minute. What day is that?

[Sarah MacLean]

February 18th.

[Jennifer Prokop]

All right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna come to that.

[Sarah MacLean]

You are? Jennifer?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know.

[Sarah MacLean]

Is that school night?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I just.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm sure it is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Is it a weeknight? Why?

[Sarah MacLean]

It's always. They're always. Yeah, it's a Tuesday. But it's President's Day. Do you have. No, it's the Tuesday I need to.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Be at work that day. I'm sorry. God damn it, Sarah. I'm not coming. You just got me on the side.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then ruined it. You guys should just move. You should tell Mysteries Romance that he would be happier if you lived in New York. Be closer to Little Romance.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's true. It's true.

[Sarah MacLean]

All right, well. All right. Tell us about your last book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, listen, I was so excited because everybody, one of our books that blooded us, I think maybe, was that Sarah Mayberry book. Book. Her best. Right. We love that book. But the. Okay, so in that book, Martin gets essentially dumped right before his wedding day.

[Sarah MacLean]

Was the other one ablaze?

[Jennifer Prokop]

The other one is ablaze. And it is called Hot Island Nights.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm getting it right now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It is. It came out in 2010. And so in Hot Island Nights, his bride, right, essentially the woman he was going to marry, go. Elizabeth, goes off to Australia to f.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he and I bought this June 17, 2017, probably when we recorded.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Probably. Yes. Yeah. Right. No, no, you have this. Okay. So anyway, Elizabeth. So in. So in. So what happens is in her best worst mistake is the bride's best friend ends up with Martin, but they hated each other. It's like the best enemies to lovers book basically ever. These two fucking hate each other. And he gets together with her and there's a couple of scenes where he, like, leaves and comes back. Like, he leaves to go find Elizabeth and try and convince her to come back, and then he's miserable. And then at the end, they're going for Elizabeth's wedding to some guy. And so in this book, Elizabeth essentially breaks up with is this. I can't remember Martin at the beginning because she realizes she's not happy. And she essentially has been raised by her grandmother. Her parents died when she was a little girl. She was raised by her grandparents, and Martin worked for her grandfather. And she's just like, always done whatever it takes to please them. So Martin has said to her, well, you have to order a copy of your birth certificate so that we can arrange for, you know, the marriage license or whatever. And when she opens up her birth certificate, she finds out that her father is not her birth father. So she essentially opens up and Martin. She goes to Martin and she's like. And her grandfather are like. She's like, basically like, how come I didn't know that my I. My father is not my father. And Martin's like, I thought you were going to have that mailed to my office. And she was like, wait, you knew? You knew and didn't tell me that my father was not my father. And so she just realizes, like, I have been basically trying to make everybody happy in my whole life, and Martin is a wonderful man, but I am not in love with him. Him. So I'm going to go try and find my. My birth father and find out what I can and find myself, right?

[Sarah MacLean]

Uhhuh.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so she goes off to Australia and find herself a hot Australian. His name is Nate. He is living in the house that is her father's, like, last known address. And so. And he's like, drinking and it's like the middle of the day and he. And she's like, I'm looking for Sam. And she's. He's like, well, he's not here. So, you know, he knows this guy. She's like, well, can you give me his number? I am his daughter. And he's like, no, I can't do that. But if you leave your number, I will call him and make sure that he knows you're, you know, you're here or whatever. And so then she's just. And she just feels, like, so kind of lost. But then, so that night, they're out at a bar, and she sees Nate, and she is a little drunk, and. And he's kind of hitting on her, and she's kind of like, why not? Why not? Like, I. I want him. And I've never, like, Martin and her had serviceable sex, but it was never great or fantastic. And she's like, I just feel like I want him. Why not? Like, if this is what I want. And the whole point was for me to find myself, then I'm gonna do this. And they end up having this really, like, a. A really beautiful relationship. And it turns out the reason that Nate's been drinking is that six months ago, he was in an accident where he was the driver, and he. His teenage sister was in the car with him and died. And the other thing I would say is, like, these books really, like, there's no content warnings on any of these books, right? And so, you know, you can just trip into, like, a really, truly tragic backstory for this character. And she is just like, I want to be with Nate in whatever way I can. I'm not going to judge him because I'm trying to fit.

[Sarah MacLean]

Figure out who I am.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And she. And it just ends up being a really. I really loved it. I, I. And it's very different from her best worst mistake because it's really different. But the one part I was really outraged by, at one point, Nate goes down on her, and she's like, almost 30 or something, and. And he is like, you really like that? And she's like, well, no one's ever done it before. And I was like, martin, you dirty dog. But that was, like, part of the story is he felt like she was such a good girl, right? That he had to treat her a certain way. And so one of the things she loves about Nate is that he just doesn't treat her like she's made out of spun glass, right? So anyway, I did find myself. This was, like, the first one. I was really excited to read it. I had bought it years ago, too, but was had never, like, just never read it, even though I bought it. I think when her best worst mistake when we recorded that episode. So anyway, it's a Harlequin Blaze. It's called Hot Island Nights.

[Sarah MacLean]

Amazing.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, it was amazing.

[Sarah MacLean]

Listen, I don't know that I read it then and I'm going to now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Sarah MacLean]

So what else? I think we've really done the job here.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

You know, everyone listen here. Here's what we'll say. Blaze was of a time. It's important that we remember that it did exist because none of us were invented in a vacuum. And also, these books are fascinating. They're. I'm fascinated. And I am going to do what I can to find, to figure out what the brief was on them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, the other thing I kept thinking about is we talked a lot when we recorded our 2024 debuts, how when you read, like, a. A set of books that all come out at the same time, it's like a window into that time for romance always. And even though I read books, like, over a wider period of time, I did find myself really, like, it felt really like at home in some ways. Like, I was around the age of a lot of these characters when I read these books. But I also think. I don't know, it just felt sad to me. Like, it felt sad that we have lost a kind of story where. Where people are just like, wow, sex is great.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, sex is really fun.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

I don't know. I would like to see it come back, though. I think that it's one of those situations where we are. We're. We are in a. We're at a real precipice in terms of romance and, like, what romance can do to combat what the world is doing in terms of making young people think about sex in a different way and making young people think about sex in a way that isn't scary or traumatic or unpleasant or in someone else's decision making.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, I really. I will come back to that. That book about the woman who wrote the, like, book about not sleeping with your boyfriend a lot in terms of just thinking about how, like, transformational that is as a concept in romance.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Not because I don't think romance has always sort of said that quietly, like, right, you should enjoy it. It should be joyful. It should be pleasurable. It should be all these things. Things like, you should want to do it. But I think one of the things that I've been reading a lot about is how, like, young women are doing a lot of, like, they're having a lot of sex just because like, their partners want to. And, like, they don't really feel like it, but they're h. Like they're. They're. They'll do it. And I just think, like, we can do better. We can be more overt as a genre.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think one of the things, like, we've talked about a lot is, like, kind of like the. In romance, like, you. Like, the best sex you've ever had is with, like, the person you're going to have the hea with. And that is arguably not necessarily true for these books. It's not like you're going to have great sex with this person that you're now going to have the h E a with, but you have also had great sex in your life that there's no having. Right. There's no reason why the person you're with now has to make you look back and think, think those other partners were a mistake or those other. Right. Like, sexual experiences weren't as awesome as they were. Like, these are people who just feel very rooted in themselves as sexual beings. And I think that that part feels like kind of, to me, like, what we're missing. And let's listen. I don't. I mean, for me, that does feel like a loss. Because. Because it feels like when we go to a time that is more regressive, that is more judgmental, that it. Right. Whatever it is we're heading into that is more restrictive, it feels sad to me. There's something. There's something heartbreaking almost about seeing how far backwards we've fallen.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. Agreed. Okay, everyone. Well, that is our Harlequin Blaze episode and let us know if you enjoyed it and would like us to explore other old category lines. Jen and I would really love to do that, honestly, so it was super fun. If you want us to do that, we're very happy to. Just let us know. I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop. We are fated mates. You can listen to us every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts, [e-mail] where you can see all the books that we've talked about today and all the links that we referenced and other fun stuff that Jen puts together every week in show notes. You can also find us online. We are currently still on social media threads, Instagram and bluesky, but who honestly knows what's coming down the pike? The best way for you to find us is [e-mail] or on the Discord, which you can gain access to if you join our Patreon. The Patreon gets you one extra episode every month that's full of banter and whatever Jen and I have in our minds, so enjoy that and also gives you access to the Discord, where a bunch of other Fademates listeners are talking about romance novels all the time. That's it for us this week. And don't forget to stay tuned for a sneak peek of macmillan Audio's Let's Call a Truce.

[Narrator]

I was going to die in a goddamn public bathroom. My purse fumbled around in my hands as they shook, sending the bag's contents to the floor. I followed, scrambling for the lavender oil my therapist suggested I carry with me. The delicate floral scent flooded the stall as I popped off the top top and I inhale deeply to regulate my shallow breathing. Four seconds in. Hold for seven. Eight seconds out. You've lived through this before. It's not too much for you. I played the mantra in my head on repeat, reminding myself that the pain in my chest wasn't a heart attack. The dizziness would pass if I could get a breath in. I was in control of my life, no matter how I felt in the moment. As the tunnel vision faded, I registered where I actually was. Not just sprawled out in any bathroom stall, but the one at my new job, the first I'd had in seven years. My life. It had been nine months since my life blew up. Nine months of panic attacks and sleepless nights. Nine months of trying to adjust to my new life life and hiding my pain to help my kids through theirs. I swore I would get it under control before I returned to work. I gripped a cool surface to steady myself before realizing it was the toilet seat. My disgusted squeal echoed off the tile as I wiped my hand on my blazer. I inched down to look under the stall, praying I didn't see anyone else. I let myself hope I'd escaped undetected until I spotted another pair of feet in the last stall. Is everything all right? The timid voice was a mixture of concern and caution. I swallowed a curse. It was my first day. If I could get out without being seen, no one would know. I lost it on the floor of the office bathroom, but my voice could still give me away, so I disguised it. Yep, I'm fine, Brain. Whatever signals my brain sent to my vocal cords translated to a bizarre combination of faux masculine and weirdly squeaky. Not to mention obviously fake. I couldn't keep hiding my new boss. Well, old boss turned new again was sitting in my office. God only knew what she was thinking. After I got up and left the room. But who wouldn't freak out about having to introduce themselves at the all staff meeting meeting? Did I even get a coherent I have to go to the bathroom out or did I just turn and sprint? Christina hired me right out of college when I had a degree in human resources but no actual experience. She taught me how to do the job and do it well, and I owed her every professional success I had. The hardest part of deciding to stay home when my first daughter came along was seeing the disappointment on her face. I wondered if she was as equally disappointed in how pathetic I'd become since we last worked together. But that was a problem for another time. Right now, my priority was getting out of this bathroom without being seen. Do I make a break for it or wait out the concerned bystander in stall number four? I ran for it, breathing a sigh of relief when the other stall's door creaked open only after I'd made my escape. I thanked the universe for this one small act of kindness as I dug out the hand sanitizer from my purse. Christina turned the corner as I slipped the bottle into my bag and I let her lead me back to my office. Keep your head in the game, Juliana. You can't afford to lose it again. Literally. When Christina heard I was looking for work, she snatched me up for kmg. Officially Keller, Munoz, and Griffith, though it was never called that since the KNG got bought out by the M. It pushed me back to an entry level position, but something was better than nothing. I'd taken the last nine months to grieve the loss of my husband and get things in order for my girls. Not an easy feat with a 7 and 5 year old who don't understand why Daddy isn't coming home. But Clara and Sophie had to figure it out alongside me. I couldn't put off work any longer or we wouldn't have a roof over our heads. Plus, KMG's architectural and interior design departments had created some of my favorite spaces in Orlando. I was excited to help build their teams. Thank you for listening to this clip provided to you by macmillan Audio. To hear more, look for this title wherever audiobooks are sold.