← Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
Loading summary
Transcript422 lines
- [00:01]
Sarah MacLean
Right before I walked into my office, Jen, Eric said to me, don't forget to talk about the collections. Bring up virgin heroes. That'll set Jen off.
- [00:09]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, my God. Okay, so first of all, I am obsessed with collections.
- [00:16]
Sarah MacLean
Okay? Tell everybody what they've won with collections.
- [00:19]
Jennifer Prokop
So Eric had this great idea, which is that we should essentially, like, you know, like, our. We have pages that are, like, okay, it's enemies to lovers. You can look at these books. But we really. There's so many people who have great ideas about love. Like microtropes. Right? Like, smaller. Like. Right. A smaller way to organize or collect a series of books. And one of the reasons that this becomes, I think, especially important now, and this was, I think, Eric's idea, too, is that it is harder and harder to find good lists of romances on the Internet. Right when you and I started, you could easily be like, all right, give me, you know, blah, blah, blah, romance. And you could easily find people's lists. But now, oh, the Internet is just so hard.
- [00:59]
Sarah MacLean
It's too big. There's impossible to discover things.
- [01:01]
Jennifer Prokop
Right? It's agreed. Right? And so he was like, like, let's get, you know, people essentially, like, our listeners, authors, the two of us, to, like, make groups of books that are basically, like, your favorite microtrope or just, like, something you've noticed about, you know, a bunch of books, a way to read a bunch of books together. And we are calling this the collections department, which is funny, only we promise, like, never to call your mom and tell her that you didn't pay your bills. And, like, some of them are just like our, like, right. Like every deep dive we've ever done, all of our best of. Right? So you can kind of look at those as an easy way to see all those at once. But then we have, like, people who have, like, microtropes. Like, so we asked be in her books, and she made one about mustaches.
- [01:47]
Sarah MacLean
Or my friend Shane did one about food in historicals. And then the. And Jen did, too.
- [01:54]
Jennifer Prokop
I did only ones up so far.
- [01:56]
Sarah MacLean
Only ones up. He. He's. He's.
- [01:59]
Jennifer Prokop
Why isn't the other one so funny?
- [02:01]
Sarah MacLean
He's not every. He's like, jen can wait. Everybody else is going up. So Jen did one. It was called. Originally. Was called Hoops. There it is.
- [02:09]
Jennifer Prokop
No Hoop. There it is. Like, it was.
- [02:12]
Sarah MacLean
There it is. And then. And then. So it's a basketball one. And then Eric put it to the text thread. I changed the structure of this title to match the title of the song with parentheses and exclamation point.
- [02:28]
Jennifer Prokop
And I was like, okay, that's fair enough. But the funny part is. So he was kind of like, you two need to actually make some, you dummies. And I was like, okay, so I made these two. And the thing that's fun is like, it can be like. Like, okay, the MNBA is in playoffs, the WNBA season. Oh, my God, you guys. When the time you hear this? It started last night, right? So I'm like, in my. In a great time for me. So I was like, oh, it'd be really fun to have, like a basketball romance one, right? So they can be topical, whatever. There's. So there's so many really great ones. So Shreya apparently submitted Virgin Heroes. And I, like, check out the collections page. And I sent Eric this text and I was like, excuse me, are you literally trolling me right now? Virgin Heroes went up before hoop.
- [03:16]
Sarah MacLean
There it is. What I love about this, though, is the Virgin Heroes list. I mean, everybody knows Virgin Heroes are not for Jen. And so it's interesting to me because we may never do a Virgin Hero episode. The closest we'll ever have gotten is when we did. We, like, did an episode related to Fate of Mains Live. No. So I know. So we did an episode related to Fated Mates Live. And we talked a little bit. I talked a little bit about Virgin Heroes, but now there's a list. And a lot of these books I didn't. I have not read.
- [03:59]
Jennifer Prokop
See, there you go.
- [04:01]
Sarah MacLean
What is very. The coolest thing about the collections for me is like, I am into a lot of these microtropes and I think of myself as being somebody who knows the score. But there are so many books in these collections that I've never read. I'm so excited.
- [04:17]
Jennifer Prokop
I really like about it is. So then Eric does a nice job of being like, you know, we've talked about this book or this author. But yeah, it's like if. And I think the other thing is, as you all know, just when you're looking for a discoverability buddy, right. If you find a collection that has, okay, two books on it you really loved, you can kind of like, hey, I'm probably gonna like the rest of these, right? Also, it's fun. Cause people come up with their own titles. And my. The one that I think of as being really funny is by some Heather Varlow, who wrote one called Getting Sprung.
- [04:51]
Sarah MacLean
Which is oh, so clever, right?
- [04:53]
Jennifer Prokop
About essentially when people get broken out of jail. And I was like, so clever. God, why do I love this?
- [05:00]
Sarah MacLean
And then Alice Murray did one called First Come First Curve. About plus size Heroines and historicals.
- [05:08]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, Secret Tattoos from art. The person, my favorite, right, who made the Discoverability Buddy name.
- [05:14]
Sarah MacLean
And then Andy has done a couple Nisha. By the time these are up, Nisha's got a couple in here. I sort. You can go to faded mates.net collections or just go to faded mates.net and it's right, there's a link on the main page that's to collections and so you can head over and take a look and explore. And what we love about this is it's giving an opportunity for people who we love and who we respect and who we think are great, you know, our great Discoverability buddies, a chance to have space on the website. And I love this structure too. Like you could think to yourself, like, I don't know what I want to read. And you don't have to listen to a whole episode though you should, right?
- [06:00]
Jennifer Prokop
And just be like, I wonder what From Starchy to Feral could be about. Well, it's about a starchy hero who comes completely undone. Thanks, Hilary Bowen. That's another great one.
- [06:12]
Sarah MacLean
And you can also find a full list of all of the deep dives like Jen said, and a full list of all of our best lists on here too. So welcome everyone to Fated mates. I'm Sarah MacLaine. I read romances and I write them.
- [06:26]
Jennifer Prokop
And I'm Jennifer Prokup, a romance reader and editor.
- [06:30]
Sarah MacLean
And if you are a member of our Patreon, an announcement has been made. So check your email is what I'll say just quickly to anybody there and then everybody else will get that announcement next week, I think. So there's that, that's a little bit of housekeeping that I wanted to do. And then can we talk about pagebound?
- [06:49]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh yeah.
- [06:50]
Sarah MacLean
And we have like Romance Domination page.
- [06:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Give the people what they want, Sarah.
- [06:57]
Sarah MacLean
Pagebound. We've talked about it on a couple of podcasts, but it's a ferocious and growing community of book lovers. And you go there and it's basically like a place where you can collect the books that you've read and talk about the books that you're reading and meet other like minded readers. And so once we partnered with pagebound and we said, all right, we've got a quest. We're going to be here, we're going to send our listeners to you. This week I went over to Page Bound and there's just romance everywhere as far as the eye can see.
- [07:29]
Jennifer Prokop
And I think the other part that is really cool is it's like very conversation based.
- [07:35]
Sarah MacLean
Right.
- [07:36]
Jennifer Prokop
Somebody wrote like, there's like a topic that's like iad for the win. Basically there's a cheat code for a gold medal and hence having read all of the IED books the show covers. And I was like, look at this. Here's a fun question. Two scenarios. What's your take? And so it says, scenario one. Someone who has never read romance before asks you where they should start. You must recommend one book from this quest. Which do you choose? Or scenario two. An experienced romance reader is in a slump and desperate to find something to get them back in the game again. You must pick one book from this quest. What do you recommend?
- [08:10]
Sarah MacLean
Being really thoughtful.
- [08:11]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. And then it's like really super fun to read. Like read people's answers too.
- [08:17]
Sarah MacLean
So yeah, I love, like today Eric sent me a post that somebody had posted and they were like, what's a book Sarah and Jen have never talked about that you wish they would read. And there were a couple books in the list and I was like, I've never even heard of that book. Like, so you guys, I'm paying attention. I'm.
- [08:39]
Jennifer Prokop
We're listening.
- [08:40]
Sarah MacLean
I'm doing the job.
- [08:41]
Jennifer Prokop
And listen, we all need those fun places to go, especially places where it's just like all books. Bookish community. It feels great. So yay. Speaking of fun and bookish community, did you go to any independent bookstores yesterday? Sarah?
- [08:55]
Sarah MacLean
Let's talk about that. Yesterday was independent bookstore day. So when you all are listening, last weekend was independent bookstore day. I did. So I did this thing originally. I've. I actually was in multiple independent bookstores all week long. And in Brooklyn there was like a bookstore crawl and you were supposed to like get stamps through like 15 independent bookstores in Brooklyn. And of course I was in like six over the course of the week. And did I have my card for stamping? I did not. So I failed in my, in the like, most obvious way. I failed. But the. But what's interesting is it felt squeaky this week. There was the Barnes and Noble pre order sale, which is now it seems like maybe quarterly, which is, you know, great. Everybody great. That's 25, 15% off or 25% off your preorders if you do it through Barnes and Noble in all formats, which is, you know, a big, A big discount. So that happened and then like suddenly Amazon announced that they were going to do some sort of like Amazon sale yesterday Saturday. And that felt shit, like, shitty.
- [10:10]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, and it was funny because, like there was a guy On Blue sky, who was like an author, like a historian. He's like, hey, I just looked and my book is only like $10 on Amazon. I don't know why. And someone was like, it's because Amazon is trying to undercut Independent Bookstore Day. And the guy was horrified because of course he was just like, hey, I want people out there buying it. But like, if you are not hooked into that, it's real easy to see how you could not know.
- [10:32]
Sarah MacLean
And here's the thing. Independent Bookstore Day is always the last Saturday in April. So it does feel like Barnes Noble was a little bit eating. Eating Indy's lunches too. I think so anyway. So I think. But interestingly, I think the, the fact that Barnes and Noble and Amazon both were like doing these kind of shenanigany things made the indie like elevated Indie Bookstore Day, at least online. Like, I saw so many people talking about it. So then I posted, I, I'm gonna post about all the bookstores that I love. And then I got to 20 and I was like, it's too many bookstores and that. And then it's one of those things where it's like you're giving a speech at like the Academy Awards and then you're like, I'm just going to forget.
- [11:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Like, I can't, I can't remember everybody.
- [11:23]
Sarah MacLean
So then I slowly like deleted all the bookstores that I had been talking about. And I just said like, thank you to every independent bookstore because indies really are like a huge part of how we succeed as people, as writers in the world. And then last night Eric and I went out for dinner and we went out to a restaurant like a block from the Ripped Bodice. So I popped into the Ripped Bodice and Catherine from the Ripped Bodice was like working and it was packed in there. It was like seven and there were so many people, which was great. And I was like, it feels like 7 o'clock on a Saturday night for a bookstore. Does not feel like you would normally.
- [12:02]
Jennifer Prokop
Expect it to be.
- [12:03]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah. And she was like, oh, no. And this is. She's like, it has been like even busier all day. So it sounded like that was. And then I was in my local bookstore too. Bookmarks in Bay Ridge, which is nice.
- [12:14]
Jennifer Prokop
I only went to two. There are like kind of five independent books, like within a mile of me. But I went to. Last week I went to a new black owned bookstore at like the northern end of Hyde park called Call and Response Books. And I bought like five or six books. So I was like, okay, and so yesterday I was like, I'm going to drive by and if I can like find an easy parking space, I'll pop in. But I couldn't. So I just kind of kept going. But I, I went to 57th Street Books. I wasn't able to make it into Seminary Co Op, but they're like essentially the same owner. So I was like, again, it was just like too busy down by one. But I was able to find parking at another one. And then I went to a really cool new bookstore like in my neighborhood called the Book Joint, which is another black owned bookstore. And it is a beautiful space and it really, it has like a very lovingly curated selection of essentially like call and response does essentially all kinds of people of color. But like, this bookstore is really like black owned books. But I found a really cool book for my husband. He doesn't listen to the podcast so I can talk about it about like black TV shows. And so like they had really cool books and then just like a really nice, like seating area. It was like a really bright sunny space. So that was. I had a good time there. And then I did not go. There's a Powell in my neighborhood. But like the Hyde Park Powells is just like, it's like boring books from university. No, it's not. I'm just like, nobody wants to read your old textbooks, you weirdos. A. I'm sure all these books were owned by Nobel prize winners, but whatever.
- [13:48]
Sarah MacLean
Not useful to me unless you put your name in them.
- [13:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Correct. So it's actually, it's in great shape and it's like, everything's really well organized. But like, sometimes I'm just not in the mood. I think a good used bookstore, you have to be in the mood to just discover what comes your way. It's a different vibe.
- [14:09]
Sarah MacLean
So my thing is, I think I've talked about this recently because I did this when I went to Montgomery and Taggart too. But I went to. When I go to a romance bookstore now, like the only I. I tend not to browse. I tend to just like immediately go to the manager and be like, what should I read?
- [14:30]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [14:30]
Sarah MacLean
Because. And then if they recommend me a book that I have never read before, I buy it because, like, I've read so much that it's hard to find, you know, whatever. So I was at the Robotus yesterday, like I said, and I bought Katherine recommended Sarah Grunder Ruiz's Luck and Last Resorts, which we. I think I feel like I mentioned her next her second book on. I think she has A new book coming out. So I bought that. It's a ship romance, which I'm into.
- [15:03]
Jennifer Prokop
Sure. I mean, summer is on our way, right. I like it.
- [15:06]
Sarah MacLean
And then I bought my daughter. I didn't realize that Ashley Herring Blake had written, like, middle grade, like, lower ya. So I bought my daughter the Mighty heart of sunny St. James. And then when I was in. When I was in bookmarks, I bought my daughter actually reads this, like, graphic novel series called the Love Report. And there's a brand new one that was out this week. So I got to be a good.
- [15:38]
Jennifer Prokop
A good mom.
- [15:38]
Sarah MacLean
And I bought a collection of Audre Lorde essays. I just. And then I just. They just pile up. All my books just pile up.
- [15:47]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm afraid that is.
- [15:48]
Sarah MacLean
And then instead I came home and I read he did Rivalry. Wait, before we get there, though. And Jen, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to turn off your ears because I gotta say this out loud to the crew.
- [15:59]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay.
- [15:59]
Sarah MacLean
What are you about to say? I did take my 11 year old to see Pride and Prejudice remastered, the rerelease on the big screen.
- [16:08]
Jennifer Prokop
And how was it?
- [16:09]
Sarah MacLean
Listen, it was a fucking delight.
- [16:12]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm so glad.
- [16:13]
Sarah MacLean
I had a great time. She had a great time. We ate popcorn and drank Diet Coke and watched Mr. Darcy be Mr. Darcy all over on.
- [16:25]
Jennifer Prokop
Is this the one where he clenches his hand?
- [16:27]
Sarah MacLean
Yes. That part's nice. That hand. That hand.
- [16:30]
Jennifer Prokop
Did you intuitively understand the power of that moment? Oh, yeah. Okay.
- [16:33]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, yeah. This is the. I think I've told this. I know I've told you this story. I'm not sure I've told this story online, but this is the movie that sort of like, awakened her to, I think, like, romance in general. She was maybe 8, and I was having a day, and so I was watching it and she sort of like, toddled into the living room and was like, what is this?
- [16:57]
Jennifer Prokop
What's this boring thing? And then you're like, oh. And then she was like, no, it's great.
- [17:01]
Sarah MacLean
There's a scene and it's raining and they're in a gazebo, and he proposes and she turns him down. But then they get, like, real close. You know, they do one of those, like, real close, almost kiss things. And she was leaning forward on the couch and she went, kiss, kiss, kiss.
- [17:17]
Jennifer Prokop
And you were like, look at. It works.
- [17:20]
Sarah MacLean
Look at this. You've done so well. So anyway, we had a great time. I'm very grateful to, you know, film in general for deciding that we all needed us that this week and I'll be honest. Like, I saw Sanj. Sanj went too, at some point, and she was post. She posted on Instagram about it, and. And she was like, it was so emotional for me. And I was like, you know, it was really emotional for me, too, in like, a very, like, cathartic way. Like in a sort of. I just. It's such a romantic movie. And so I had a great time and I got all teary at, like, totally irrelevant. Like, all teary at moments that I shouldn't have gotten all teary at, but just, like, felt emotional and nice. So, anyway, well done, Keira Knightley. Well done, Matthew.
- [18:09]
Jennifer Prokop
Well done, Keira Knightley.
- [18:10]
Sarah MacLean
Everything, if you were wondering, everything holds up there.
- [18:14]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, I mean, it is kind of a I do not believe classic story that's held up for a long time.
- [18:19]
Sarah MacLean
You know what? I don't believe we need constant remakes of Jane Austen.
- [18:24]
Jennifer Prokop
And yeah, I think.
- [18:25]
Sarah MacLean
I think this one is good.
- [18:28]
Jennifer Prokop
But this one seems okay.
- [18:30]
Sarah MacLean
This one is. Well, it's 20. What is it, 25 years old? I think it was 20 years old. 20, okay, 2005.
- [18:38]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, yeah. Then 20.
- [18:40]
Sarah MacLean
Okay, listen, 20 years old. But here's the thing. If it's beautiful, it's set in the Regency, so no one knows. It'll just last how old it is.
- [18:48]
Jennifer Prokop
Exactly.
- [18:49]
Sarah MacLean
Costumes are the same, and yet somehow they are not. All right, so that is that. Everybody reporting in. I saw Linda took her statue to the movies. That's some.
- [19:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Of course she did. Linda. Real vibe.
- [19:02]
Sarah MacLean
Linda, we love you.
- [19:05]
Jennifer Prokop
Meanwhile, have I. Had I been with Linda, I'd been like, I have to get up and sit in another row now. What is happening? Oh, my goodness. It'd be like me going to Mad Max Fury Road and bringing out, like, a skull. I don't know. What are you guys doing?
- [19:21]
Sarah MacLean
Bringing your Tom Hardy poster?
- [19:24]
Jennifer Prokop
Sure. Furiosa.
- [19:28]
Sarah MacLean
That's also. That is a movie I would really love to go see in the movie theater again.
- [19:33]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [19:35]
Sarah MacLean
Anyway, I'm putting that. So maybe I'm manifesting that for next year.
- [19:39]
Jennifer Prokop
Maybe we just need to rent one of these movie theaters out.
- [19:42]
Sarah MacLean
You know, I did the mat. I. I did some research on this because I thought, oh, it might be fun to rent out a movie theater to, like, do a screening of. Of Pride and Prejudice. And I just didn't get around to it. But I did send the email, and I got an email back, and the one, the guy was like. And this is for a movie theater in New York City. So, like, it was $750 and that which for like a 40 seat theater. And then plus like the expectation was like people would spend like $15 I think per person, like for food. And I was like, that's actually not a terrible amount of money for a private screening of something. So I don't know, maybe everybody, we should just do that more.
- [20:28]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't. Yeah, we could just watch whatever we wanted.
- [20:31]
Sarah MacLean
Just. I mean, my whole theory is you should just like there should be like a Wednesday afternoon curated fated mates movie. If we all lived in the same.
- [20:41]
Jennifer Prokop
Place, everyone imagine it would be so fun.
- [20:43]
Sarah MacLean
It would be the Saint Moonstruck. Be a real weird group. Something with Jason Statham in it.
- [20:54]
Jennifer Prokop
Just a super cut of like Explosions on my day.
- [20:59]
Sarah MacLean
The first episode of Reacher.
- [21:03]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [21:04]
Sarah MacLean
Oh my God, that Reacher man sings a lot on the Internet and I find it questionable.
- [21:10]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't know anything about that.
- [21:11]
Sarah MacLean
Really? No.
- [21:13]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, you know, I took all that off my phones.
- [21:14]
Sarah MacLean
He's a musician. I think he was originally musician. I'm talking about this like big giant.
- [21:20]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, yeah, sure. Alan.
- [21:23]
Sarah MacLean
If you ask AI to build you Jack Reacher, this is the person it would build you. Except AI is not good because it wouldn't build you a person who can carry a tune probably. And this guy was like a musician at some point and so now does a lot of like singing to his camera, which, you know, I have no idea. Anyway, so you should go follow him. Alan. Is that his name?
- [21:47]
Jennifer Prokop
Something? Alan something something.
- [21:50]
Sarah MacLean
You watch that show, don't you?
- [21:51]
Jennifer Prokop
I do, but I apparently don't pay attention to the credits.
- [21:56]
Sarah MacLean
Alan something, I think.
- [21:57]
Jennifer Prokop
Alan. Rick Richson. Richter. I don't know.
- [22:02]
Sarah MacLean
Sure. Oh, yeah. So now let's get to it.
- [22:07]
Jennifer Prokop
This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Laquette, author of Royal Bride Demand.
- [22:13]
Sarah MacLean
Okay, so Reina, our heroine is just like a normal person vibing in the world. Sure, she once had this like great relationship or you know, she had a relationship with Jasiria to be and it fell apart. But she is like over it. Totally over it. And all she really cares about right now is that her childhood home is. She no longer has access to her childhood home. And she wants that more than anything. Well, lucky for her, Jasiri is back in business and he needs to get married. And he needs to get married real fast. Gen. Because he is a royal prince teed up secret. A secret royal prince. He never told Reina about this.
- [22:59]
Jennifer Prokop
Of course he didn't.
- [23:00]
Sarah MacLean
He is teed up to become heir to the island kingdom of Na. And in order to take over the throne. He needs to get married fast. So he has come back to claim Reina, the girl who got away and convince her to marry him and become princess slash future queen of this island country. Now initially Reina is like, I don't know that I want any part of this except he's promised that she can have her childhood home back. He'll buy it for her and make sure she has everything she wants in bed, out of bed, forever and ever and ever and ever if she'll just agree to be a queen.
- [23:44]
Jennifer Prokop
You know, I brain, I believe in you.
- [23:47]
Sarah MacLean
I think she's going to make the right choice.
- [23:49]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay, so if you would like to read this Marriage of Convenience second chance romance that has an Enemies to lovers, But They're Royals vibe, then you should check out Royal Bride Demand. It is available in print and an ebook and if your podcast app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Laquente for sponsoring this week's episode. Well, here's what I'm going to say, everybody. We are about to talk about Heated Rivalry by Rachel Reed. And the reason I am nervous about this is because I, you know, this actually is an interesting question which is like, what are the books that you think of as being so like, beloved by so many people that they become. Right. Like, there's, I think I don't think of. I was trying to think about how to frame this. Like, I don't think of romance as having like a canon. I don't think you have to read anything or not. Like, I, I. There's just too much and I think it's like what you want to read. But I do think that there's a small number of books that have become just like beloved.
- [24:56]
Sarah MacLean
I think there are books that are in the zeitgeist like that like people. It feels like everybody has read them and everybody who has read them loved them. Yes. And often those books are books that like, I have missed.
- [25:10]
Jennifer Prokop
If you One of the things I think is like before Faded Mates, a long time ago when people would ask me like, you know, like, should I read a romance? I would sort of has I had like a two question, right? And it was kind of like, do you want contemporary or historical? And then I would recommend either Lord of Scoundrels or Bet Me because I felt like these were two books where I'm like, if you, for like a. You've never read a book before, you've never read a romance before, Right? This is like 10 years ago, I don't know that I'd say these two books now.
- [25:39]
Sarah MacLean
I'd be like, no, that's interesting, because I definitely would have said Lord of Scoundrels. But I wouldn't now.
- [25:44]
Jennifer Prokop
No. Right. Correct. So this is like, yeah, to be clear, everybody, 10 years ago, and I don't think I'd say bet me now, but I would say, like, what I would say to people is, if you don't like these books, then you don't like romance. Like, I think they're very good at doing what romance does. And they are really well liked and they're great books and they're really. You know what I mean? They're like the pinnacle of, like, romance or whatever at that time. And so I think that in some ways, I think this book, I think a lot of people would think of as being like, this is a. And I think to me, that often feels like a way. Like, this isn't a book that just is insider love of romance. I think a lot of people would say that this book is a romance they would, like, recommend to a lot of people. Right. Like, it's really good at doing what romance does.
- [26:29]
Sarah MacLean
Yes.
- [26:30]
Jennifer Prokop
And I think, like, in. When you then come to that book, like, the two of us have neither of us had read it before.
- [26:36]
Sarah MacLean
Nope.
- [26:37]
Jennifer Prokop
It's like the pressure. I was like, oh, I better love this book. Or, I don't know.
- [26:44]
Sarah MacLean
I mean, it does feel that way. Often you're like, oh, what if I don't like it? And here's what I will say. I really did like it. I enjoyed it. I sometimes feel, though, like, a book like this, because it's in the. Like, I didn't read it the year it came out. So, like. So I think there are a few things at play here. I didn't read it the year it came out. Like, when it came out, I didn't. I like. So now it feels like, well, there's lots of queer romance out there, right? Like, it doesn't feel. As for me, it didn't have the kind of. It doesn't. It doesn't feel like. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, spectacular in that way. Like, oh, I've never read anything like this. I've never anything like it. And also, like, it feels like hockey is everywhere now.
- [27:33]
Jennifer Prokop
I am also really interested, though, when you do read a book that everyone loves and you're coming to it late, it's really fun to think, well, what is it that people love about this book? Right? Like, what is the, what is it about this book that really, like, makes people feel so strongly about it? Right. That's kind of a fun thing to sort of like, almost like you're like retconning it in advance. Right.
- [28:00]
Sarah MacLean
I. And we'll, I'm sure, get to it, but I think this book really rides an interesting, interesting line between what was before and what is now.
- [28:08]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, I would agree with that too.
- [28:10]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, I think it has the sort of tension and because of like, of the way that these two characters have to really shield themselves from the world and like, protect their identities from the world. So it has this kind of very old school feeling of like, you know, truth and, you know, identity and, and fear and like, threat. But it also is about, like, there is something very phone boothy about this book. Right. Like, it's very, like there are moments of real quiet, like, emotional tension that feel very modern.
- [28:57]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [28:58]
Sarah MacLean
Like it's two generations of romance smashed together.
- [29:02]
Jennifer Prokop
I experienced several moments of what I will call like cognitive dissonance between the hopefulness of this book for what it would mean about what it would be like to be openly, openly queer in America or Canada or North America or the world and how it feels reading that now and like the questions it raised about masculinity. Mm. Right.
- [29:34]
Sarah MacLean
Yes. Because these are so. Okay, let's talk about what this book is. Let's give a quick overview for those of you who haven't read it. So Heated Rivalry 2015 by Rachel Reed is the second book in her Game Changers series. This series is entirely about hockey players. They are all queer. The first book in the series is. I'm just going to name check because I think it's like we're going to reference it. I think when we do this.
- [30:07]
Jennifer Prokop
Talk about the plot.
- [30:08]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, when we talk about the plot of this book. The book is called Game Changer. I have not read this, but it is a hockey captain, Scott Hunter, he's important to this book. And juice bar barista, like, fall for each other. Okay. So Rachel has done this really interesting thing where she's created a world in which queer hockey players exist, but they exist within the confines and the construct of what is existing in like sports masculinity in America. Right. So like, there is the threat of discovery or like there is a constant sort of underlying current of if we are found out to be gay, we will, our careers will suffer because sports and masculinity. So it's this interesting. Use. You said cognitive dissonance. Like, it's this interesting world that she's built for us.
- [31:13]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [31:13]
Sarah MacLean
We're like, all of these characters are hockey players within a real existing sports universe. Right. So that's an important thing for you to know. It's not like there are some newer series of. There are some newer queer sports series where like the whole team is gay and like it's just open and normal. Like, that is not what we're dealing with here. Correct.
- [31:37]
Jennifer Prokop
This is more like the real world of the NHL and professional sports hockey where it's kind of. Where it's forbidden.
- [31:42]
Sarah MacLean
Right, exactly. So. And I think that that's part of what's so compelling about this book is like this forbidden. It's a modern day, like, forbidden romance. So Shane is our. Is captain of the Montreal hockey team and he is. And. And Ilya is a Russian hockey player and he is captain of the Boston Bears. And they are. And when we meet them at the very beginning of the book, basically, like, all we know is they've just been on the ice together. They've just been. They've just had a. And then there's like, they are rivals. They are presented to us as like, straightforward, they fucking hate each other rivals. And then in a very. This is a prologue and in a very interesting twist at the very end of the prologue, it becomes clear that like, Shane has gone to this like, secret meeting place afterward and there's a knock at the door and there's Ilya and then they are gonna fuck. Oh, yeah, right. And you're like, oh, shit. Like they're rival captains and rival people. And then it goes back in time to when they were teenagers in hockey camp together. And then the time is really interesting. Like there's a timeline, a timeline structure here where like she then brings a timeline forward every, you know, sometimes in months, sometimes in years to show us how they have like, developed this like, simultaneously public rivalry and a private, like, erotic experience.
- [33:18]
Jennifer Prokop
The book is organized in four parts. Part one is like this like the beginning of their, like, sort of like really just sexual relationship that they develop. And I mean, I think the thing is, is it's like, I want to point, like, so they are at like the world Junior World Championship for Hockey, which is basically like the, like, you guys always makes you laugh when I read these like, college hockey romances, the Final Frozen Four, that's. That means they weren't good enough to be where these guys were.
- [33:55]
Sarah MacLean
Right.
- [33:56]
Jennifer Prokop
And then part two is like, what I thought was like, really interesting was kind of a way shorter, just a couple of chapters where there's sort of like an overture that maybe it's more. And it kind of gets shut down. Right. Like, it's like this little window that, like, maybe there could be more between us. And I thought it, like, closed because of their own fears or feelings.
- [34:18]
Sarah MacLean
Right. Because Shane. So. Sorry. Let me just. Okay. Is it okay if I stop you here or do you want to finish your thoughts about parts?
- [34:26]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, I. No, I just think, like, to me, the timeline was less interesting than the parts. That's what I was going to say. Each part, I think, is doing something.
- [34:33]
Sarah MacLean
Really distinct, is doing something very different. I agree. So. But Shane's character is very kind of like, he's like a sweet baby. It has never occurred to Shane to be gay.
- [34:45]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [34:46]
Sarah MacLean
Like, it's almost like he's sort of written as, like, not only has it never occurred to Shane to be gay, it's also never occurred to Shane really, to have sexual thoughts.
- [34:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. Yeah, he, like. Because he knows.
- [34:58]
Sarah MacLean
He's hockey. That's his thing.
- [35:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, he's.
- [35:01]
Sarah MacLean
His job is hockey. And so that's it. Now, Ilya is Russian, and you get the vibe very quickly that Ilya's job is people.
- [35:14]
Jennifer Prokop
Correct? Yeah, 100%.
- [35:17]
Sarah MacLean
He also is very good at hockey. But this man knows his way around a bedroom. And there's this sort of set. So there's a really interesting tension between them, like, emotionally, because you get this very. And I want to talk. I know you want to talk about masculinity, too, but, like, there is something deeply masc. Like, Ilia feels like. Like he just, like, oozes testosterone. Right?
- [35:44]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, because Shane describes him that way.
- [35:46]
Sarah MacLean
But they're described physically that way, too.
- [35:49]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. But like, we're seeing each other, like, Right.
- [35:51]
Sarah MacLean
There's.
- [35:51]
Jennifer Prokop
It's through their eyes. Right. Like that. That Shane talks over and over again about how Ilya feels like a man and he does not himself feel like a man.
- [36:01]
Sarah MacLean
Facial hair. He has body hair. He's like.
- [36:04]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. Bigger. Right. More broader. All those things. Right. Yeah, of course.
- [36:10]
Sarah MacLean
And then. Okay, so then. And so then there's this kind of sense of, like. Okay, Ilya's Russian, Shane is Canadian, and they have the. For the first two parts of this book, you're really reading an erotic romance. Like you're reading.
- [36:30]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [36:31]
Sarah MacLean
Them. There's very little that they know about each other other than hockey and being hot. Right.
- [36:41]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [36:43]
Sarah MacLean
And then as we move into the third and fourth four parts. Five parts.
- [36:48]
Jennifer Prokop
Four.
- [36:48]
Sarah MacLean
Four parts. Then we start to see them, like, actually become humans to each other. Right. Like Then there we start to see them like, grow up one.
- [36:57]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [36:58]
Sarah MacLean
Which is important. And then in the growing up, they start to have to navigate what are essentially feelings. Right. They start to feel feelings. And that makes everything more complicated because these are not. This is not a structure. This is not a. This is not a conflict that is easily overcome. Right. Like, this is. You have to overcome society. Right. Familial expectation, the masculinity that comes with sports, the expectations of a team, the expectations of, you know, your. Your own expectations for, like, who you are and the face you present to the world. And then on top of it, Ilya is Russian. Right. And so we all know that in Russia, he. There is no way for Ilia to be outwardly openly gay.
- [37:52]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [37:53]
Sarah MacLean
I don't think we have to talk too much more about plot except to say, like, it's basically just like, what, 10 years or not even. It's like six or seven years of them, like, dancing around each other on the ice. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Jillian David, author of Paging Doctor Breakup.
- [38:15]
Jennifer Prokop
So this is the second book in Jillian's Yukon Valley, Alaska hospital series. And the best way to think about this, everyone, is Grey's Anatomy means Northern Exposure. I don't know. If that doesn't appeal to you, then.
- [38:29]
Sarah MacLean
I don't know what to say to you because that sounds pretty great to me.
- [38:31]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. The Pit meets Northern Exposure. I will just like, change it. Okay. So anyway, with no rats. Fine. Okay, I'll stop now.
- [38:38]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, my God.
- [38:39]
Jennifer Prokop
Anyway, Deirdre Stein is the chief nurse. She's a widow. And she's basically like, I am not gonna let my heart ever get broken again. It was too much. Right. So she has been fending off the town's matchmakers for as long as she can. She just can't take it anymore. But this, it really hits a rough spot because her old high school friend Cal Garrett is back in town. Calvin is the head of an er. Fast paced ER in Seattle, but he's. When. Since he's helping his parents, he's also like, putting in some shifts at this small Yukon Valley hospital to like, sort of pitch in and help out. And the town of course, is like matchmaking potential. Just they. They can see it. So Cal and Deirdre enter into a fake dating situation just to like, kind of shut down the matchmakers. Like, eventually Cal will go back to Seattle and they won't have to listen to anybody talking about them. But real feelings start being had when they have these, like, kind of nice dates and all this hanging out, right? So the fake dates are turning into real feelings. Everything is going to come to a head at the breakup Festival. And this everyone is not where Deirdre and Cal are going to break up in front of the whole town, but rather when the ice is going to break on the frozen Yukon River. And so that's when he is slated to go back to Seattle. But this is also like feels like they don't want to break up. Just because the ice is breaking up doesn't mean they're ready to break up. And so what is going to happen when these two have to figure it out? Like they I can't take it anymore.
- [40:13]
Sarah MacLean
What is going to happen? Well, you can find out right now in print or ebook. You can get Paging doctor Breakup Today. It was out this week and if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Jillian David for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [40:35]
Jennifer Prokop
One of the things that it like is worth saying is right so we talked about this book was published in 2019. It is now 2025. And I as far as I know, there is one professional hockey player named Luke Prokop, ironically, who is not even. Yeah, not no relation. Who is not in the NHL. He instead is. He plays for like a, you know, I don't know what it's called in hockey. Like one tier down, right? So he's a professional hockey player, but he's not an NHL player. And as far as I know, there, there are still no openly gay hockey players, right. In the NHL. So the world that they live in, I mean, it's I think very the, the world of professional hockey. I think that we see the homophobia, the, their fear of being outed, their idea that, like, they know gay players must exist. They don't know who they are. They think it would take a lot of bravery. They're Shane's like, I don't think that's me, Ilya. I think it could be. But he very. But he fears like if I'm cut, I have to go back to Russia and I can't go back there. Right. So it's like his bravery for him would be an existential physical danger as well. The other thing though, that I thought was really effective about this book was like, how young they are. And I think, like, you know, you read a lot of these, a lot of romances now when you read about like, you know, they're in college or they're 22 or 20, 23. And they are really not. They're really like, you know, have the abilities and skills and decision making.
- [42:16]
Sarah MacLean
36 year olds, right, exactly.
- [42:18]
Jennifer Prokop
But I mean, these two are kids and I think one of the things that I found really truly effective about it is like, so, you know, they're, you're like kind of in their point of view is like these, you know, hookups are happening. Basically, they're hookups. And then you would sort of, kind of be like, okay, well why can't these two get it together? And then there'd be this like casual thing where Ilya would be like, you know, a brother would call and like demand money. And Ilya's like, I'm 21 years old. And you're like, oh my God, they're so young.
- [42:48]
Sarah MacLean
That's why they can't be together.
- [42:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. And so it's like this question of like, what is bravery when or like what? You know what I mean? Like, I didn't ever find that I was like, disappointed or thought that they should have, you know what I mean? Like, but they are, they as people are very aware of like the pressure and the expectations of the league that they are playing in, of their. And for Ilya, of his family and his country, and for Shane, it's, who is like, it's I guess like a coming out kind of journey. For him though, being with women as a, as a professional hockey player is very easy and he has been with women, but he's never satisfied and he doesn't really like it. And it's clear it takes him a long time to essentially be able to say, like, I think I'm gay. And to say to Ilya, but you're really not. Right? You're bi. And I think like that is part of the journey of this book for them is like the hookups evolve in such a way where like, Shane in particular is on a journey of figuring out who he is, but Ilya is on a journey of figuring out what is possible in terms of his life. And I think they're different. And I think that's another reason it takes them so long to sort of like figure this out. Right.
- [44:20]
Sarah MacLean
Well, it's also really interesting because she teased them up in such a way. Yes. They are so young.
- [44:25]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [44:26]
Sarah MacLean
I mean, first of all, a perfect example of a prologue that's doing a lot of cognitive work for the reader, like establishing them as grown ups before we go back and read them as kids.
- [44:37]
Jennifer Prokop
I think they're smart. I would have had a hard Time without that prologue.
- [44:40]
Sarah MacLean
Smart. Right? So, one, and then I think there's also this, like, I always joke. Like, I say it a million times a day. But, like, heroes should be kings, right? And here are two kings.
- [44:53]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes, Literal king. Like, right?
- [44:56]
Sarah MacLean
They are captains of their team at, like, 22 years old. Like, they are. They are brilliant. They are in the Olympics at their age. Like, Ilya is the captain of the Russian Olympic team at 22. Like, it is. It's unreal how skilled they are in that world.
- [45:18]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [45:18]
Sarah MacLean
And she does. You know, there's this moment, this very. So Ilia smokes. And it's interesting because I'm always fascinated when a hero smokes in a romance, because in, like, there was a time when all the heroes smoked, and then. And now you never. You almost never see it.
- [45:34]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [45:34]
Sarah MacLean
But Ilya smokes, at least when he's young, he smokes. He quits ultimately, over the course of the book. Although, you know, and there's this great moment where they're, like, being fucking men. They're. They're just being dumb men in a gym and they're, like, running on treadmills side by side. And you're in Shane's pov and he's like, I can beat him. I mean, like, he smokes. Like, I should be able to beat him and he can't.
- [46:02]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [46:02]
Sarah MacLean
Like, and the joke of the sort of magnificence of this book is they are both kings and they are equal in every way. Right? Like, so when Ilya wins a game one year, one week, Shane wins the next week. Like, there's no, you know, Ilya doesn't. The. The Russians don't make it to the podium at the Olympics, but the American, the Canadians do. So, like, you know, it's an interesting push pull. And I think what's really fascinating and what elevates this book in a way that, you know, shows Rachel Reed's real skill is that in the hands of a lesser author, this book would have a lack of conflict. Right? Because these are just two very skilled people, like, being skilled on the ice and, like. But because they are both kings, Right. What she has established for them is this situation where they cannot rule until they have overcome their own insecurity about everything.
- [47:09]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [47:10]
Sarah MacLean
Who they are, who they would be if they were revealed to the world. Like, what. That. What would come next if they were outed.
- [47:18]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [47:18]
Sarah MacLean
Or if they were found, discovered. And so I think the stress of that is so well articulated by. And. And it feels existential for them, and it's and it is existential. This is the. The threat of. Of being outed.
- [47:44]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [47:44]
Sarah MacLean
Is it. It is existential. And so I feel really, what was magnificent, what I think she does so well, is give you these two characters who are so powerful, it seems like they cannot fail and then deliver you exactly how they might.
- [48:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:01]
Sarah MacLean
And. And she doesn't. For what it's worth. And, like, this is spoiling it. They are not outed.
- [48:06]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [48:07]
Sarah MacLean
Like, there is no. There's. This is not done.
- [48:11]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [48:11]
Sarah MacLean
She doesn't. She doesn't deliver that threat to them because. Or she doesn't. She doesn't make good on that threat because the threat itself is so powerful.
- [48:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Doesn't actually need to happen. They just have to live with it.
- [48:25]
Sarah MacLean
Right, Exactly.
- [48:26]
Jennifer Prokop
And now here's where I will admit something. I read this book for the first time all the way through I'd started this book for. And DNF'd it because I think the beginning of the book, like, the part one section in particular, is like, pure erotic erotica, even not even really, like, an erotic romance, right? Like, they have no way of.
- [48:47]
Sarah MacLean
Well, the walls are so high, right.
- [48:49]
Jennifer Prokop
They have no way of actually getting to each other. And at whatever point in time I tried reading it, I was like, I'm just not into it, right? I was like, I don't really just want to read about these guys all the time. Sorry. And it wasn't in. And I kind of had forgotten why, you know, like. Yeah, I don't think I got that far. I just. Whatever. And then this time around, I was like, oh, I remember now. And it was so. I was really fascinated. I was really fascinated by that switch to part two, because I think I was like, okay, what is gonna happen here that's making this part two? It's not really that time has moved along, right? Like, they see each other a couple of times a year. We get, like, it was, I think, really smart, like, kind of subtle. Like, at some point much later in the book, Shane sort of says, like, after March, like, right as. As it's approaching, like, the Stanley cup finals or the. Or the playoffs, they. No matter if they saw each other or not, they didn't contact each other. Like, hockey became supreme. It just whatever they were to each other was not as important. And so I was really interested in, like, those sections between, like, part one and part two. And in part two is where we see Shane by the building, which I thought was really smart for showing just how deeply he wanted to be with Ilya and how Desperately. He knew that, like, I mean, the word safe, they had to be safe. They had to be safe, Right. That he was like, what is gonna make me feel safe to do this?
- [50:26]
Sarah MacLean
Right.
- [50:26]
Jennifer Prokop
And I was. I was really interested in that. And then.
- [50:31]
Sarah MacLean
Right.
- [50:32]
Jennifer Prokop
Like, it's sort of like this part where he thinks, like, realistically about, you know, Russia's laws against homosexuality and, like, what it would mean for Ilya if he was discovered. For Shane, it's more sort of like his emotional vulnerability. But, like, I was really fascinated. I found myself flagging how many times the word safe is used in that section that, like, that's what Shane wants. Like, I want to figure out who I am, but I want to do it in a way that's safe. And because I am one of the biggest hockey stars in the literal world.
- [51:04]
Sarah MacLean
Right.
- [51:05]
Jennifer Prokop
Where is that place for us in Canada? At one point, he's like, we couldn't be in the same room in Canada without people knowing who we were. Right. And then in part three is the part where it transitions from, like, that, like, erotica. It's like erotica, erotic romance and then romance. Right. Like, almost like each part is a different sub genre. And that's when I really found myself thinking, like, oh, I'm really enjoying this.
- [51:34]
Sarah MacLean
You came online.
- [51:35]
Jennifer Prokop
Now I'm getting the things that I really love out of a romance. Right. Which is, like, all those little moments of, like, tenderness and connection and, you know, like, joy and humor and them, like, being together and. You know what I mean? And so I think it's, like, a really interesting read in the sense that the. The. We talk all the time about an erotic romance, like. Right. Like, sex has to do work. It's showing us the emotional intimacy of the relationship. I think that's incredibly true of this book, but I also think it's telling us something about the emotional journey of the reader. Right. Like, I didn't. It wasn't super emotional at the beginning because it really wasn't for them. They couldn't let it be.
- [52:19]
Sarah MacLean
Well, because she's right.
- [52:21]
Jennifer Prokop
She.
- [52:24]
Sarah MacLean
It's interesting, though, right, because I feel like she wouldn't have been able to maintain the tension for the whole book if she'd introduced the sort of heightened stakes at the very beginning, like, for the first two parts. I mean, part one is really the past. Like, it's.
- [52:41]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, they're. I mean, they're babies.
- [52:43]
Sarah MacLean
One is, like, how they. Is basically the rivalry. Like, how the rivalry came to be, plus how they started to be attracted to each other. Right.
- [52:53]
Jennifer Prokop
Like, yeah, but I also want to point out part one was eight chapters and part two was three. The. The parts were not equal.
- [53:03]
Sarah MacLean
No.
- [53:04]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [53:04]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [53:05]
Jennifer Prokop
And I think the other thing that. So I. This is. I did find myself thinking, if I can interrupt and not talk about, like, two people I don't think are in love, but, like, the part that I found really poignant as, like, a WNBA fan is like, I. I have. I watched in real time last year the WNBA create a rivalry between Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. Right. Like, in every way that it was possible to sell the story that these two people hate each other. And no matter how many times you get these two people saying, like, yeah, no, we're fine together, right? The narrative of the league takes over. And I think that that's. The part about part one that is so powerful is like, we have no idea how they could have been with each other if it had not been for the fact that they were set up to be rivals. Right. By the league. And I do think that's part. About an important part of that first section because they have to undo that too, right?
- [54:01]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, I guess it's interesting, right? Because I think. I agree that that's the structure, but I do think that there's. I think Ilia especially likes it.
- [54:13]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, yeah.
- [54:14]
Sarah MacLean
He gets off on the rivalry.
- [54:17]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, yeah.
- [54:18]
Sarah MacLean
And, like, so I don't know that it's like. I think there's something more to the rivalry than, like, it's just how they are. It's how they were conditioned to think of each other. Like, I think Ilya. And I think this is why. Listen, this is really Ilia's story. You know, there's always a. I feel this way about all romances that, like, it's very, very rare that I come across a romance where it's not one character story more than the other.
- [54:47]
Jennifer Prokop
I would agree. Yeah.
- [54:48]
Sarah MacLean
And so I am always sort of predisposed to think about a book as, like, well, whose story is this? And I will say, if you're out there writing romance, often, you're fucked, because it's almost never who you think it's like, whose story you think it is. But in this case, right, like, Shane is really coming to terms with who he is, and he's having to, like, understand himself, and he's going through real, like, for Shane, like, the first half of this book feels real coming of age in a lot of ways. Right. But Ilia, this is like, Ilia's story in that, like, we get to see him really evolve, which is why in, like, later in the book when he starts speaking in Russian and listen. I mean, my favorite. Right? My favorite.
- [55:33]
Jennifer Prokop
No. Yeah, but that's the thing. Like, those are great scenes where you're like, I get it now. Right.
- [55:38]
Sarah MacLean
He gets to rush. Like, Ilya's father, like, is very ill for the first half of the book. We sort of have a sense of what's up. Like, there's a conversation with his dad that doesn't feel quite right, but, like, he certainly isn't interested in revealing himself in any way to. To Hollander.
- [55:58]
Jennifer Prokop
Part of the reason that it's fascinating is because Shane is the one who's obsessed with safety, but his position is far more safe than Ilias is. Oh, yeah, right. I mean, at the end, his parents.
- [56:09]
Sarah MacLean
Are like, he's not going to get deported. He's not. He's not going to get deported to a place where he'd be thrown into a prison for being himself. Like, I mean, there are all sorts of things.
- [56:17]
Jennifer Prokop
He has two living parents and they love him, and he's pretty sure that they will accept him. You know what I mean?
- [56:23]
Sarah MacLean
Like. Yeah, yeah.
- [56:24]
Jennifer Prokop
So I think that's the part that's also really fascinating, and that's why I think it is Ilya's story, because he has.
- [56:32]
Sarah MacLean
I mean, he's got more.
- [56:33]
Jennifer Prokop
More to lose. Yeah, Right.
- [56:35]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah. And so there's this great moment, like, late. I mean, this. It's great. He had. So his father dies and, like, it's one of those things. This. This is not uncommon in a sports romance for, like, something traumatic to happen at home. And then, like, just as, like, listen, Rachel Reed knows the job. Like, you know, we've. We've escalated everything. They've had this, like, very romantic time together. They're like, you know, moving toward the Stanley Cup. There's, like, all this kind of happening, but, like, you're starting to really feel like these two could actually make go of it. And then dad dies in Moscow.
- [57:11]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [57:11]
Sarah MacLean
And Ilya goes home to Russia. And he's alone there.
- [57:17]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [57:17]
Sarah MacLean
Like, he is. There's a moment there where he is, like, at. So at sea. Like, he's without country.
- [57:25]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [57:25]
Sarah MacLean
Like at. In. Back in Canada, slash Boston. It's all the same. Like, he has, you know, this. Whatever the community of players looks like for him. Right. The team, the. The purpose, the work, the sport.
- [57:42]
Jennifer Prokop
His cars.
- [57:44]
Sarah MacLean
His cars. And then he has. He has Shane.
- [57:49]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [57:50]
Sarah MacLean
But in Moscow, he has nobody. His father is dead. He didn't really like his father very much. He doesn't like his Stepmother. He doesn't like his brother, right?
- [57:59]
Jennifer Prokop
They all. They just want him for his money, right?
- [58:01]
Sarah MacLean
Everybody just wants money from him. And so he calls. He makes a phone call. He calls Shane. And there's something very vulnerable, obviously not just about the moment, but also about the fact that Ilya, this, like, king among kings who, like. Like half of this book is him just being, like, fucking, like the biggest cock in the league, right? And then all of a sudden, we see him, like, in deep romance, hero vulnerability calling, and he can't find the language in English. Yeah, he can't find the words in English, but he can't find them. Like, it's all such a, like, struggle. It's just obvious. Like, he can't. He can't feel the feeling. And then Shane says, say it to me in Russian.
- [58:48]
Jennifer Prokop
It's a. And I'll just God tier romance moment.
- [58:51]
Sarah MacLean
I won't understand, but I'm gonna listen.
- [58:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [58:56]
Sarah MacLean
And you're in Shane's pov, which is very smart. And so, like, immediately, like, he speak, he starts speaking Russian. And Shane just, like, is thinking about the sound of his voice, right? And he goes on and on and on. And then he says, and now I'm done in English. And then it switches to Ilya. And Ilya's like, his first thought is, did. He could have recorded the conversation and then put it through a translator. And, like, which is a very sort of Russian. Like, it's sort of a reminder of, like, surveillance and threat and all the things that are looming over Ilia's head. And what I would say is, like, Rachel Reed really threads this needle very carefully because you don't really think about Russia very much for the first two, like, three quarters of this book, two thirds of this book, right? Like, it's sort of mentioned in passing, but, like, suddenly you see, like, Ilya is worried on a level, like, far beyond anything Shane could be worried about.
- [59:54]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [59:55]
Sarah MacLean
And then Ilya. And then he's like. And the worst part was, in the middle of all this, it. He'd confess that he loves him. And of course, I mean, done.
- [60:06]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm like, no, it's.
- [60:08]
Sarah MacLean
This is perfect.
- [60:09]
Jennifer Prokop
But these were the moments, right? At the Perfect. This is. This is where I was like, oh, now I get why people love this book so much, right? Like, because these mo. The. I mean, it's a great moment. It is a great moment. And listen, great romances are made out of great moments, right? And I think that's the other part about this. I was taking notes because I was like, what do I want to remember to say about this book? And, you know, we say all the time, like. Like, heroes have to be kings. These two men are kings. But we are rooting for them. Like, they are underdogs, right? Because we know that, like, yeah, you can be a king in this world, but how are you going to. Like, how are you going to find your way to each other? How are you going to, like, how are you going to find your way to this romance, to being in love with each other? Because there's so many things stacked against you and not just the things, like, in your own heads. Right? And I think the other thing that I think this book does incredibly well, like, again, showing that transition from beginning to end, right. Is the beginning. All those scenes are. It is them in a phone booth. But it's also, like, the isolation of them being closeted, right? Of how afraid they both are of being discovered, of being found, of being heard. What will happen and as time goes on. And so, like, you know, one of the things I was, and I'm sure you were on watch for this too, is I was like, what are going to be the scene? As soon as I started reading, I was like, okay, so what are going to be the things I'm going to watch for as, like, showing them, like, breaking down these walls and the big one. And I know you. I know you know this is the first time they call each other not by their last name, of course.
- [61:49]
Sarah MacLean
I highlighted it. Shane.
- [61:50]
Jennifer Prokop
You did? When you said Shane, I was like, it's over.
- [61:54]
Sarah MacLean
Listen, this is a micro. This is a God. Tier. Microtrope. Yes.
- [61:58]
Jennifer Prokop
And this, this book does it so well.
- [62:00]
Sarah MacLean
We've all used it. It happens a lot in historicals, right? Where, like, instead of referring to the Duke as the Duke, you refer to him by his first name or like, my favorite, when they're insects and he's like, call me first name. Right? Oh, yeah. I mean, perfect. And Shane clocks it and is like. And it's during sex.
- [62:22]
Jennifer Prokop
Yep.
- [62:22]
Sarah MacLean
And it's interesting because I went back and I reread that sex scene because I was like, okay, well, then if this is the scene where it happens, what happened in this sex scene to make it this? Right. And I think. And the structure of the sex scene changes. The pacing of it slows down. She's thinking there are more feelings, like, more emotional feelings in that sex scene than there are physical, which is where the first. I mean, like, she is really doing the job here. And what's interesting about this is it happens and then immediately everything. It sort of goes into chaos. Then he starts to have. Then Shane meets the actress.
- [63:03]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes. Oh, I want to talk about her. Yeah.
- [63:06]
Sarah MacLean
And then. And then this is all. This all, like, sort of predates the way that all of the, like, barriers start to be, like, immediately. The first name is terrifying for both of them. As elate as they are elated, and then they are terrified, and then they both go back to building walls. And Shane goes so far as to, like, fucking date a movie star.
- [63:29]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes. Right, well. And I was really fascinated by that because I. So her name's Rose. Right. And that whole part of the book was really interesting to me, I think, for what it says about Shane. Obviously. I. I think in a lot of ways, she. Rose did not feel like a real character to me. She was just like a paper doll of, you know, a perfectly. A perfect, beautiful, wonderful woman who, like, understood him. Great. But there are two things in particular. Like, I didn't actually really love that part of it, but there are two things in particular that I thought were really great, which is one, when Shane first meets her, he explicitly thinks that she is. She is a movie star in a different, bigger, better way than him. And I think he loves that. I think he loves being. Not being Shane Hollander because he is with Rose. Right. So he, I think, finds a kind of, like, again, like, safety or security or whatever with someone whose stardom is, like, bigger or more expansive. He's like, yeah, people know hockey, they know me, but everyone knows her. I found that part really interesting. And I think the other part is that he genuinely, at this part, he really did like her as a person, and he'd never allowed himself to feel that way about women before. He'd never had that connection with women before. Right. Like, because he was. I think he was like, do they only like me because I'm Shane Hollander?
- [65:05]
Sarah MacLean
Well, and also, I mean, he's very clear. And ultimately at the very end, his parents are pretty clear that, like, he. He's always been gay.
- [65:12]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. Like, his parents were like, we kind of maybe thought.
- [65:16]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah. Like, and then he basically says by the end, he's like, I've had sex with a few women. But, like, it's never been.
- [65:21]
Jennifer Prokop
It's never been.
- [65:22]
Sarah MacLean
Right.
- [65:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Right.
- [65:24]
Sarah MacLean
And so I think you're absolutely right. But I think the running two rows is in direct response to holy. Like, this is becoming very real. Because. Because Shane is the one until Ilia speaks Russian. Right. Short of. Obviously, romance readers know that the moment Ilya used the term Shane, he was in. We all knew that's happening. But if you're just like a normal reader. Yeah. Until Ilya speaks Russian, this romance is dominated by Shane's feelings. You know, like, at any point Shane could. Ilya could walk away and we'd be like, well, that guy was an asshole. Like, but Shane, like, this is Shane, like, reckoning with his fear. For me, this book starts to really sing at that point. Like when Ilya goes to Russia. This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by Measured and Slow Studio.
- [66:32]
Jennifer Prokop
Everyone, Measured and Slow is a studio that is hosted by one of Romancelandia's good citizens, Alyssa Long. If you are on social media at all, she is just like someone who I have followed for a really long time. And she is a expert craftsman with all kinds of fabric arts, right? Crocheting, quilting, sewing, hand dying, if you know, spinning, you name it, she knows how to do it. And she has a really cool site, Measured in Slow Studio, where she has all sorts of fun things that you can shop for for yourself, for a friend or maybe upcoming Mother's Day or Father's Day type presents, right? So there are lots of really cool things, stickers that she designs and 3D printed things, and a lot of really fun bookish items. So in particular, I have my eye on a stack of little book earrings. There are these really adorable little chases like that have a. At the end, anything that you. If you love dragons, there are like really cute, like page holders that have a dragon shape, statues, bookmarks, you name it. So if you are just like looking for something really fun and cool that just is like the perfect romance Landia ethos, then check out Measured and Slow Studio.
- [67:51]
Sarah MacLean
So as Jen said, with the holidays coming up and gift giving sort of always being difficult for those older people in our lives, if you know somebody who might, might be charmed by one of these adorable things, Then head to MeasuredAndSlow Studio and check things out. Alyssa tells us that Anything ordered by May 5 will arrive before Mother's Day in the United States, and that is good news for everyone. Thanks so much to Measured and Slow for sponsoring this week's episode. And again, that's MeasuredAndSlow Studio. Listen, it's a fine romance novel that I, I really enjoyed up until then. But at that moment, when Ilya leaves the country, goes to Russia, and has to deal with the Russian of it all, that's when it really starts to, like, come online for me as like, oh, now I get why people talk about this book like it's yeah. You know, can. It can.
- [68:48]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [68:48]
Sarah MacLean
I want to talk about the fact that from in that moment, while Ilya is in Russia, he says, I don't want to come back here.
- [68:56]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't want to come back here year.
- [68:58]
Sarah MacLean
And he's like, I want to be American or Canadian, but I'm in America. So. And then he's like, well, there's this woman, Svetlana, and what if we got married?
- [69:10]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [69:11]
Sarah MacLean
And Shane is like, what? And he's like, no, I don't mean you and I get married. I mean, what if I marry slip Svetlana and you find a nice girl, you want to have kids. Like, there's another guy on the team who's having children. Like. And so he's like, you know, we could have. We could have this relationship. Like, we could get married. It could be business. He even says, like, svetlan is not stupid. Like, she knows the score. She knows it would just be business. And suddenly there's, like, deep threat of, like, what if? Like, is this. Is this the solution? And it starts to really feel like this can't. Can't go on this way. Like, what?
- [69:52]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [69:52]
Sarah MacLean
Whatever the game is that they are playing cannot continue because there is no logical out.
- [70:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Right? Well, and I think this is why. And when the Scott Hunter of it all happens, well, it's right after that, right? Like, right.
- [70:10]
Sarah MacLean
It feels. And it almost feels like Rachel Reed was like, oh, yeah, Like. Like she had gotten herself so far along the road that she had, like, built the wall too high. Right? So something massive needs to happen in order to pull back down again.
- [70:29]
Jennifer Prokop
And before that happens, I will say it is important to note. And I had a lot of respect for Shane saying, don't marry her. Don't do it. And even though he doesn't have an answer at that moment, he does say, don't do it.
- [70:44]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah. He doesn't say, don't marry her until after.
- [70:46]
Jennifer Prokop
Until later. But he does say, like, come to the cottage. And I think what he's saying is like. And this is like, the thing about this book that I think it's really perfect in the ways that they say things to each other without saying things to each other. Right? Which is, I think, how so many relationships are. But it's like, the weight of all of the ways they had to keep who they were secret means that even when they're talking to each other, it feels secretive. And I think even, like, their texts, right? Like, they don't even have. I was really fascinated how they give each other, like, Names, Right. For texts. Right. Like, so Ilya is. It's like Jane instead of Shane. And then I can't remember what Ilya's name is.
- [71:32]
Sarah MacLean
Lily.
- [71:32]
Jennifer Prokop
Lily, Right. But what. The thing that was really interesting is when they're texting to each other, it would say Shane and Lily. And when Ilya's texting, it would say Ilya and Jane. So it's like, even that part is still, like, sort of secretive. Like, they know who they are, but they're still like, this barrier.
- [71:53]
Sarah MacLean
There's a wall.
- [71:54]
Jennifer Prokop
There's a wall. There's a wall. There's a wall. Right. They can't.
- [71:57]
Sarah MacLean
It's protection. It's not just protection from the outside world. Like, who cares about them at this point? Like. Like, it's protection from themselves. Like, it's like, if I bear myself to this person. Also don't, like, the biggest. The really most interesting thing here. Often in other romances, often in romances in general, someone falls first.
- [72:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [72:22]
Sarah MacLean
Right. And so there is a sort of sense of, you know, she's still nervous, but he, like, heroine is still nervous, but the hero is all in.
- [72:31]
Jennifer Prokop
In.
- [72:31]
Sarah MacLean
And he's like, whatever comes, I'm gonna, like, we'll. We'll make it together. Or vice versa. Right.
- [72:37]
Jennifer Prokop
Like.
- [72:38]
Sarah MacLean
Or, you know, in queer romance, it looks like that. Where one person is just so bedrock certain that, like, it will be okay. These two don't know. They can't promise that to each other. So Ilya says, let's get married. And then after that, it starts to get, like. Obviously Shane feels panicked. They both sort of feel like that's. They don't even want to look that in the eye. Right. So then they have these, like, really sexy, like, face. That's right. After that, they FaceTime. They like, oh, that's the first time. Really lovely. Yeah. The sex starts to get really emotional.
- [73:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, yeah, right. Because they do. It's like FaceTime or Skype as, like, show 2019. And at one point he's like, I wanna see your face, not your dick. It was great. And then they're just like. Like, at one point, I think it's. Shane thinks, like, this is how it would be if we were, like, laying on pillows next to each other. Right. If we were in the same bed. And, like, they're longing for this intimacy. I mean, that was a. Like. And that's it.
- [73:46]
Sarah MacLean
Like, it's really lovely.
- [73:47]
Jennifer Prokop
It really was. Like, these were beautiful scenes. So then they start, like, being, like, kind of texting friends.
- [73:52]
Sarah MacLean
And then Shane gets hurt, which you know, I'm like, oh, you love that.
- [73:58]
Jennifer Prokop
Of course. Such garbage for that.
- [74:00]
Sarah MacLean
I'm trash for it. Listen, this is why I don't like a lot of sports romance. Because if you don't hurt these, like, why am I even here?
- [74:07]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [74:08]
Sarah MacLean
Right. If I'm. If I'm reading hockey romance and nobody's getting a concussion, why, If I'm reading F1 and there's no car crash, what am I even here for?
- [74:18]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, like, you have to see. This is like. These are, like, the best athletes in the world, but that means they also can get really injured. Show me.
- [74:25]
Sarah MacLean
Exactly. Jane gets thrown into the boards by Ilya's team member. Ilya together. Great work, everyone. I was like, what's gonna happen now? And interestingly, I will say to everybody that there were a couple of moments where I was like, oh, this is where everybody's gonna find out. And then Jen reminded me that that was the straight white lady in me who was saying, like, I. This is how everybody's gonna discover that.
- [74:48]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, like, Ellie's gonna rush over and be like, that's my boyfriend. It's my man. Goofball.
- [74:53]
Sarah MacLean
No. So, like, I. The coming out trauma, I appreciate. But anyway, so he gets, like, thrown into the boards and. And he gets a concussion, and then he goes to the hospital, and Ilya is, like, trying to figure out, like, how he can, like, simultaneously, like, go check on this man who he loves in Russian, and not he loves in all the Russians, but in Russian especially. And then. And then he. And also, like, not reveal, you know, because still, when they're doing media.
- [75:31]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [75:32]
Sarah MacLean
They're like, Ilya's like, I'm gonna get more goals than this. Like, it's perfect. Listen, I love it.
- [75:39]
Jennifer Prokop
This is the brilliance of having them both be at the top of their game. Because if it was just Ilia being like, it is worth it for me to throw my career away to show that I love this man. But he cannot make that decision for Shane.
- [75:53]
Sarah MacLean
No.
- [75:53]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [75:54]
Sarah MacLean
That's what's so good about it.
- [75:55]
Jennifer Prokop
It is so good. This is the conflict. Right?
- [75:58]
Sarah MacLean
So this is. I mean, like, when I say this book really starts to sing in the second half.
- [76:02]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [76:03]
Sarah MacLean
This is where we are. Right? And then they're like, so then Shane. So Shane's out of the playoffs because he's got a concussion and broken. Who even knows? Just. He's been roughed up. Which is exactly what I want. One. And then. But Ilya is still in the running for the Stanley Cup.
- [76:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [76:22]
Sarah MacLean
Right. So then it turns Out. Interestingly, Ilya. So again, I was like, they're gonna, like, how are they gonna navigate this? Because you don't want one of them to win the cup without the other, like, on the ice, right? And so what they. What she does is she takes them out. He takes. She takes them out of the running, right? Like, Boston doesn't get close to the Stanley cup easy either. They get into the playoffs, but they don't get to the finals. So they're watching the finals together by, like texting.
- [76:51]
Jennifer Prokop
They're each watching, like texting here, right?
- [76:53]
Sarah MacLean
And Scott, you remember I told you about Scott from Game Changer, the first book in the ser. Scott Hunter, Game Changer, the first book in the series, Right. Who that team? Now listen, I haven't read this book, but here's what I'm going to predict. I'm going to tell you what I think is in this book, which is. Is I'm guessing that this book ends with the Stanley cup finals.
- [77:13]
Jennifer Prokop
It's got to listen, right?
- [77:15]
Sarah MacLean
We've seen this scene before from the reverse.
- [77:17]
Jennifer Prokop
100%, right?
- [77:19]
Sarah MacLean
So they're watching. So Shane and Ilia are watching it on tv, texting. And I love this because they never speak by phone.
- [77:29]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [77:29]
Sarah MacLean
It's only texting. So they're texting and Scott wins the Stanley Cup. And then all of a sudden, and they're like, this guy, why'd this guy win? I can't believe it. Scott is making out with a dude.
- [77:47]
Jennifer Prokop
On the ice and they're like, neither of them can believe what they're seeing. Right?
- [77:52]
Sarah MacLean
Holy.
- [77:53]
Jennifer Prokop
And I love this, right. Scott Hunter was kissing a man, not like one of his teammates, on the cheek. And I love you, bro, kind of way. Scott Hunter was kissing a man wearing street clothes. We have full on the mouth, same looked like tongues were involved.
- [78:09]
Sarah MacLean
We have.
- [78:10]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [78:10]
Sarah MacLean
The same highlights throughout this book, Jen.
- [78:13]
Jennifer Prokop
We're the same person.
- [78:14]
Sarah MacLean
Same person. So.
- [78:16]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay.
- [78:17]
Sarah MacLean
Unreal. Okay. And then it's like they have this moment and they're both experiencing like cognitive, like McCreeve brain, right? Just like full, like static brain. Because here in front of them is proof that it's possible that they can have it.
- [78:37]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, it's amazing. It's a great moment.
- [78:39]
Sarah MacLean
Phone rings and what's his name?
- [78:43]
Jennifer Prokop
Ilya.
- [78:44]
Sarah MacLean
No, Shane. Oh, Shane picks up.
- [78:46]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [78:46]
Sarah MacLean
And Ilya says, I'm coming to the cabin.
- [78:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. And then it's part four, Right. So it's like. And this is what I think. You know, I like talk about structure, I like thinking about structure. I think this I think the. The structure, like, separating the book into parts, like, this is really smart because I do think it is telling the reader something really explicit about and because it's like a timeline them, like, looking back, right? Like, almost like these are the big moments, like, the things. When things. This is when things changed, right? This is when things changed. And the hopefulness that you bring from part three to part four, right? Like, I'm coming. I'm coming. This all of a sudden, all the things we thought we couldn't have, hey, maybe we can have them. And that both of them thought it at the exact same moment, right? Like, they are literally having the exact same experience at that moment. I. I thought it was awesome. I loved it.
- [79:48]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, I loved it. So then they go to the cabin and it's really like a. It's fascinating, that cabin thing. It almost feels like that's all just, like, denouement, right? Like, yeah, when. When Ilya says, I'm coming, it really is just like, okay, now they're gonna go. They're gonna figure it out in, like, Idol, right? They're gonna be, like, in love off season and, like, sleep in the same bed and, like, eat food and, like, swim, and it's gonna be great.
- [80:16]
Jennifer Prokop
And they do all those things, and.
- [80:17]
Sarah MacLean
It is great, and it's great, and there's no stress and there's no tension. It's just like these two men against the world, like, in their, like, beautiful place. And then Shane's dad walks in on them, and it's just this kind of, like, lovely moment where, like, the dad is like.
- [80:39]
Jennifer Prokop
And he, like, gets in the car and his dad, his parents live, like, 10 minutes away. And Shane told them, I just need. Need some privacy for a couple of weeks because I'm recovering from my thing. So, like, leave me alone. So he's pretty sure they'll be alone. But I think the thing that. About that moment is, like, he gets to his car and, like, just, like, drives away.
- [80:55]
Sarah MacLean
Well, I mean, what would you. Of course that's what you would do too. Like, oh, no, I've walked into something that I'm not supposed to see.
- [81:02]
Jennifer Prokop
Like, yes.
- [81:03]
Sarah MacLean
And also, like, a decent parent thing where, like, you're not supposed to see it. And, like, you're like, you just want your kid to be happy and you want your kid to come out to you when your kid's ready to come out to you, right?
- [81:15]
Jennifer Prokop
Exactly. Not when you stumbled onto them. Now, here's the part that I thought was great. Another really great moment in the book. The mom?
- [81:22]
Sarah MacLean
Was it the mom?
- [81:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, yeah. But no, wait. But like, the conversation about, like, Shane had been ready to tell his parents anyway, so he's like, I have to go, I have to go. And Ilya's like, do you want me to come with you?
- [81:36]
Sarah MacLean
Shane's like, well, it would be weird, but yes, I think I knew.
- [81:39]
Jennifer Prokop
But I loved it because, like, of course, right?
- [81:41]
Sarah MacLean
For the record, my husband would never. In this case, he'd be like, this is a you thing.
- [81:45]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Listen, your parents walked in on us. Forget it.
- [81:48]
Sarah MacLean
Good luck to you.
- [81:50]
Jennifer Prokop
But I thought it was. So anyway, and the thing that's really great is I, like, really loved his dad for this. His dad has, like, beaten him home, and mom has no idea what's going on. It's not like dad came in like, right. Like, dad's just like, I'm trying to process. And Shane bursts in with. With like, his heated rival, and his mom's like, what is happening? Why are you here? And then all. It just all, like, bursts out, right? And I did. I. I really listen, I. This is the. This is the landing I want every person to have with their family when.
- [82:25]
Sarah MacLean
They come out with their family. It's perfect. It is truly happily ever after in this moment. You're like, these parents are great. Can I tell you my favorite line, though, from this whole scene is when the mom, who we've been told, like, takes hockey very, very seriously, was like, shane, you never let him win, did you? And Ilya's response is, I don't need anybody to let me win.
- [82:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Correct. Right. Well. And then, you know, he says, mom, you let dad win at Yahtzee. And she's like, of course not. He's like, see, it's. No, it's so cute. And then the other thing is that his mom. This is. And then it's great because they say, like, right, like, we have this idea and we're going to have, you know, like, they've come up with a plan, like, part of the time. It's not just like these idyllic, lovely days of being lovers together, right? They have this. We have a plan, right? We're going to form a foundation together. It's going to be for suicide prevention after what happened to Ilya's mom, which is really sweet, right? And this is what we're going to do. And this is going to be the way that we are going to essentially, like, overcome the storm free. And it's going to mean, like, Ilya, who's a free agent, is going to, like, leave his team and go to Ottawa. They'll only be an hour away. Like, blah, blah, blah. Right. Like, they have really thought through, like, kind of, how can we make this work? And so if they tell the parents the plan and the mom is like, you would leave Boston for Shane? And Ilya's like, yes. And we. At this moment, she frowned as if she couldn't believe anything he was saying was real. And you're like, because this is, like, really kind of a big deal to leave your one professional sports team for, like, a worst team. Right. Like, who would do that? Shane's like, no, my mom actually is upset that you don't have loyalty to your team. And I honestly was like, it's real cute, right?
- [84:14]
Sarah MacLean
Perfect.
- [84:15]
Jennifer Prokop
It's really perfect. And then my favorite part is, like, right at the end of the scene, it's kind of like, right. Like. And they're like, since you're like, how long has this been going on? On, of course, is the other conversation now. Of course, again, at this point, it's been going on for six or seven years. They are still 26 years old. Right. Wild and like, right since their rookie season. Shane heard his mother say, I can't believe it. His father's, like, looking at them now, I kind of can, because they're already, like, doing the thing, like that thing when we see people who are just so perfect couple. Oh, I loved it. I.
- [84:50]
Sarah MacLean
It really, really is great. And then. And then there's this. So two things. One, I just want it. There's a throwaway moment where Shane thinks, are there Russian vampires? Because Ilya bites him. And then he's like, no, vampires aren't real. And I was like, point of order. Kressley Cole's vampires are all Russian. So there is that. So that's canon. And then. No, but. And then the epilogue is this kind of, like, moment later where it reveals that the. That Shane's teammates clocked it.
- [85:28]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. His. His one best friend. Yeah.
- [85:30]
Sarah MacLean
And. And now he is out to the team. And so there is this sort of, like, community there where they are not, like, alone on an island. They now have Shane's family and they have Shane's team. And, you know, so hopefully that is that. And then.
- [85:51]
Jennifer Prokop
And then Ilia has Shane's family in some kind of way. Right. Like, that he didn't have a family of his own and that they accept and love him and how powerful that is for him, I think is really beautiful. Yeah.
- [86:01]
Sarah MacLean
And then that is the end of this book. And it sort of has this And I felt really, like, rewarded by this. I felt like, okay, this is good. This is. This ended correctly for me. But a lot of people, I don't think did feel. I think a lot of people felt like they wanted, like, an assured public. Happily ever after.
- [86:22]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [86:22]
Sarah MacLean
And Rachel Reed delivers that a few years later with the Long Game, which is the sequel to this book, which I have not. Again, I have not read. But it's the two of them and their coming.
- [86:37]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Right.
- [86:38]
Sarah MacLean
To the world.
- [86:39]
Jennifer Prokop
I haven't read it either. You know, one of the things on our Discord, like, this book gets a lot of love. And my friend Laurel talks. Talks about, like, sort of as a. As a person, a queer woman herself. Right. One of the things, like, missing from this book is the sense that, like, there's. Yes, they have each other, but they still are sort of isolated from, like, having a queer community that ex. That they are a part of and that any. For any person who is, like, we're the only ones. Right. That, like, community is, like, Of. Of being around people like you. That there's a sense of that being. That there. There's something missing. That it's, like, better for people to, like, feel love and acceptance from people like them. Right. That. That we're humans and that this is, like, one of the things in particular that happens in the Long Game that, like, Shane and Ilia can have acceptance from, like, a larger queer community. I guess there's, like, a scene where they go out to dinner with other, like, couples and that, like, how powerful it is to sort of say, like, you know, one of the reasons that this book, for some people might feel like an HFN is like, yes, they have a plan, but they are still having to hide who they really are are. And that ultimately, like, an hea. Right. That whole idea of, like, the world being righted. Yes, they are together and they have exceptions from Shane's family, but there are so, you know, and Shane's friend. But there's still a way in which they aren't, like, fully realized. And that that book, Long Game, delivers that to them in a way that I think many have. Right. Delivers, like, the full promise of the HEA to them. Them. Yeah. Yeah, I found. You know what I think my thing about this book is? Like, if I were going to reread it, I think I'd be. I'm really curious about, like, people who love it and reread it, if they reread the whole thing or if they reread just the second half. Interesting because I think I know how I am. I love rereading, but I'm like a scene rereader. I don't typically reread whole books, and I think, like, the. But like, those scenes where like, like, I don't know, like, they're teasing each other or they're like. I mean, like, listen, the phone call. The phone call where Russia. Where he's like, I'm just gonna speak in Russian. Right? Or right. Like the scene where they are at his home and, like, really feel, like, free to be each other. There's a part where they're, like, playing PlayStation or they can, like, sleep in the same bed. Like, I could see myself rereading those scenes because I feel like those are the things I want real romance to deliver to me. Right. There's a great scene where they are. One of the things that's also really interesting about this book is it is like a real sports book.
- [89:34]
Sarah MacLean
Not just like, yeah, we didn't even talk about this.
- [89:37]
Jennifer Prokop
It's so sports name only.
- [89:39]
Sarah MacLean
And because, well, Rachel Reed is Canadian, so there's that too. Right. Like, this is not a. This is a person who knows how hockey.
- [89:46]
Jennifer Prokop
Who knows hockey, how hockey really works. There's a great scene where. So the only time they could ever play together on the same team would be during, like, the All Star Games. And. But like the first year of the All Star, they do something, they traded, they, you know, they change it up. This is like the league changing it up. Right? So it's like North Americans on one side and Europeans on another, even though they would normally be on the same team because it's like, you know, the east versus the west or whatever. And so there's this great scene, a scene I really loved, where the first time they play on the same ulcer team, how much they love playing together, that they, like, can just feel like they can just read each other's minds and their signals because they both have been studying each other as athletes, but also know each other so well as lovers. And so it's like this great moment where Ilya's like, I could just like, pass it to him and he will be there in the right place at the right time. And I loved that. Like, I love the sense that, like, or. Or, like when they're at Shane's cottage, like, Shane has his own, like, gym and his own own, like, little hockey rink or whatever, and that they have that in common in a way that the league made them feel instead was not in common. Right.
- [91:00]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [91:01]
Jennifer Prokop
Your rivals, you don't have this in common. You're two different. You're opposite sides. And they're like, no, we have this shared love of this thing together. It was great. Yeah. Lots of hockey.
- [91:11]
Sarah MacLean
Lots of hockey. If you grew up a hockey player, a hockey fan.
- [91:15]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [91:16]
Sarah MacLean
In, say, New England, this is the hockey sport for you. The hockey book for you. Yeah. I, all in all, had a great time.
- [91:25]
Jennifer Prokop
Me too.
- [91:27]
Sarah MacLean
So thanks to everybody for telling us that we had to read it for a million years. Thanks to Adriana Herrera for saying, I've read it a million, trillion times.
- [91:40]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, I think. I think people have. I think, think there's, like, a real comfort, I think, to people who figure it out despite all odds. Right.
- [91:52]
Sarah MacLean
Agreed. Let us know what you think about this book and this series. Let us know if we're right about the content of the first book and the last book in this series.
- [92:02]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. We make wild predictions.
- [92:04]
Sarah MacLean
It's like a new episode where we.
- [92:06]
Jennifer Prokop
Should just, like, make predictions. What happens?
- [92:08]
Sarah MacLean
And in the book, I'm writing that down.
- [92:10]
Jennifer Prokop
That's a great idea.
- [92:14]
Sarah MacLean
Anyway, let us know and let us know if you have other favorite Rachel Reed books that we can recommend to people or we can pop into maybe a collection.
- [92:25]
Jennifer Prokop
Ooh, there you go.
- [92:26]
Sarah MacLean
Hockey books to read. If you loved Heated Rivalry, everyone. Okay. I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop. We are Fated Mates. You can find us every Wednesday@fatedmates.net or wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you want to learn more about collections from other listeners and authors and other people who we love, head over to fademates.net and click on Collections. While you're over there, click on Show Notes and you'll see everything that we referenced today on the podcast and on normal weeks. You'll also see all the books that we reference when we make recommendations. You can also find us online. We're on Blue sky and Threads and Instagram. And if you are just looking for a place to talk more about romance novels, head over to the Patreon and join us. That's@patreon.com faded mates. When you are a member of the Patreon, you also get access to our Discord, which is full of brilliant people saying brilliant things about romance. And you get an extra episode of the podcast every month where we sometimes say things that we would never, ever say on Maine.
- [93:33]
Jennifer Prokop
So that's your little giving away our secrets.
- [93:35]
Sarah MacLean
I know. That's the temptation to join the Discord, I guess, or the Patreon, I guess. Other than that, it's gonna be May.
- [93:44]
Jennifer Prokop
Now Sarah's singing. All right, Alan Rickson. Have a great week, everybody.
- [93:48]
Sarah MacLean
Rickson. Bye, everyone.
- [93:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Sa.