S08.07: Romance Demons: Problématique (Italics)

Summary

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Fated Mates S08.07: Romance Demons: Problématique (Italics)

Podcast: Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
Hosts: Sarah MacLean & Jen Prokop
Episode Date: October 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

In honor of Halloween, Sarah and Jen embrace the spooky season by diving deep into “demons” in the romance genre. They explore why demon heroes hold a particular kind of appeal (and angst), how they compare to devils and other monsters in romance, and review the shifting trends over time—from early-2010s paranormal staples to contemporary, playful (and occasionally “problematic”) demon books. The discussion is candid, funny, and at times, deeply appreciative of “problematic in italics” romance favorites. Classic series, new discoveries, as well as the hosts’ personal reading kinks, all get equal time.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Halloween Traditions and the Evolution of “Occult” Episodes

• Past Halloween Episodes ([00:14]-[02:10]):
  • 2022: “Spooky stuff”—Halloween romances and whether it's possible for romance to be scary.
  • 2023: Serious tone, focusing on mortality and the role of grief in romance.
• 2025 returns to a lighter, giggly mood ([01:44]):

  "Too serious. I mean, we... I don't think I had a giggle one time. That is not the way today is gonna go." — Sarah ([01:44])

2. Defining Demons vs Devils in Romance

• Demons vs Devils—Historical vs Paranormal ([04:26]-[06:33]):

  • Devils: More common in historical romance, confident, unashamed.
  • Demons: Typically paranormal, always a little tortured, ashamed, and “self-abnegating.” Deeper feelings.

  "The devil doesn't hate himself... The devil's like, I am great. ... Whereas demons are like, oh, I'm like a little more tortured. I think they feel it a little. Like they're a little more emotional." — Jen ([06:13])

• Recurring ‘Shame’ Trope ([05:25]-[06:13]):

  • Demons often “made wrong,” feel ostracized, not easily lovable.
  • Hosts joke about loving "a hero with shame."

  "I love it when they hate themselves!" — Sarah ([06:08])

3. The Problematic Allure: Incubi, Succubi, and Patriarchal Roots

• Incubus & Succubus Lore ([09:14]-[13:04]):
  • Biblical and mythological origins, Lilith as a “succubus.”
  • Incubi/succubi tropes rooted in patriarchal anxieties about female sexuality.
  • The problematic but compelling undertone in these stories, especially the succubus as both powerful and demonized.

  "There’s all this kind of like this idea of women taking semen and using it as life force in like a negative way. ... It feels like patriarchal in some way." — Sarah ([11:11])
  "But incubi actually do seem like fucking problems." — Sarah ([11:52])

4. Paranormal’s Heyday: Kindle Memories & Romance Shifts

• 2010s Paranormal Romances ([17:53]-[21:40]):
  • The big surge of demon-centered series: Larissa Ione’s Demonica, Richelle Mead’s Succubus Blues.
  • Kindle-era nostalgia: binge reading and book borrowing.
  • Urban Fantasy’s “PG-13” flavor vs steamy paranormal romance.
  • Memorable note: "Which books were early on-ramps to the paranormal highway? Always books where the heroine was human." ([42:08])

5. New Demon Romances: From Banter to Monster Sex

• Contemporary “Romcom Demon” Books ([26:02]-[27:39], [32:26]-[34:13]):

  • Playful takes: A Witch's Guide to Fake Dating a Demon by Sarah Hawley, I Accidentally Summoned a Demon Boyfriend by Jessica Cage.
  • Kimberly Lemming’s I Got Drunk and Yeeted a Love Potion at a Demon is cited as a recent favorite.
  • Recent Sapphic standout: Alexandria Bellefleur’s The Devil She Knows — a bantery, Faustian-bargain love story ([66:58]).

  "I want a character like a demon to not be cute. ... I want there to be stakes that feel like the end of the world." — Sarah ([27:55])

• Monsterfucking & Genre Fluidity ([26:08]-[33:49]):

  • Demons as versatile: can be anything from dangerous and tragic to sweet and sexy.
  • Monster romance expansion means “more of everything”—horns included, sometimes used as “sexual organs... you have to be able to use them to steer them!” ([07:57])

6. Recurring and Classic Demon Romances

• The Kresley Cole Catalog ([06:49]-[07:57], [44:09]-[51:28]):

  • Detailed discussion of Immortals After Dark (IAD) standouts: Malcolm (Demon from the Dark), Ruhn, Cadeon and Rydstrom.
  • Sarah's and Jen's personal favorite demon archetypes: sad, tortured, deeply feeling.
  • Notable Enemy-to-Lovers: Kiss of a Demon King.
  • Succubus heroine in MacRieve.
  • “Check your content warnings” cautioned with some of these.

  "They hate each other so fucking much. ... and they are like cruel and unusual to each other. And still many, many people claim this to be their favorite Crustley book." — Sarah ([47:23])

7. The “Problematic in Cursive” Canon

• Problematic Faves and Their Appeal ([34:13]-[38:01]):

  • Pleasure Unbound by Larissa Ione: set in a demon hospital, incubus heroes, a heroine who’s never climaxed—and plenty of dubious consent.
  • Host confession: These books are wildly horny, fun, and foundational for many readers' paranormal tastes.

  "If he takes a partner and is in love... she has to be able to come. ... Our heroine does not come. Like, has never come from a partner." — Sarah ([38:01])

• Historical Demon: Stephanie Laurens' Sinster Family ([53:43]-[59:35]):

  • A Rogue’s Proposal: Hero nicknamed Demon (real name Harold!), classic age gap, racy for its time, features lengthy sex scenes and powerful heroine initiative.
  • Laurens credited with “pioneering the 25-page sex scene” ([56:17]-[56:37]).

8. Demons as Symbols: Community, Shame, and Redemption

• Devils Are Confident, Demons Are Lonely ([75:52]-[76:18]):

  • Demons’ sense of shame stands in for outcast/otherness, and their journey is about coming to believe they can be loved.
  • Demons = “teamwork and community,” while devils are stand-alone “big bads.”
  • The messy, “feelings-full” demons make for “prime therapist bait.”

  "Devils are just like, you know, I'm the big bad... Demons are like, oh, I have all these feelings of I'm not good enough." — Jen ([76:06]-[76:22])

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Notable Book Recs & Segment Timestamps

Classic Paranormal/Urban Fantasy:

• Demonica series by Larissa Ione ([34:50])
• Immortals After Dark by Kresley Cole ([46:34])
• Night Huntress series by Jeaniene Frost ([25:23])
• Succubus Blues by Richelle Mead ([20:12])

Recent/Contemporary Demon Romances:

• A Witch’s Guide to Fake Dating a Demon by Sarah Hawley ([62:01], [65:09])
• I Accidentally Summoned a Demon Boyfriend by Jessica Cage ([40:08])
• I Got Drunk and Yeeted a Love Potion at a Demon by Kimberly Lemming ([32:37])
• The Devil She Knows by Alexandria Bellefleur ([66:58])
• Demon Lover by Heather Guerre ([73:55])

Historical:

• A Rogue’s Proposal (Demon Sinster) by Stephanie Laurens ([55:09])

Sapphic:

• The Devil She Knows by Alexandria Bellefleur ([66:58])

Additional:

• Dionysus in Wisconsin: Not a demon romance, but notable for demon antagonist ([75:08])
• Our Vicious Oaths by N.E. Davenport—promo, not a demon book ([59:45])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Demons vs Devils:

  "Demons just, like, can live in hell. Like, the devil is like the devil... Whereas demons are, like, a little more tortured." — Jen ([06:16], [06:29])

• On Demons’ Core Appeal:

  "I love it when they hate themselves!" — Sarah ([06:08]) "I want a monster to feel dangerous... I want there to be stakes that feel like the end of the world." — Sarah ([27:55])

• On “Problematic in Italics”:

  "When I say problematic, imagine it like in, like, cursive problematic." — Sarah ([34:16])

• On Old-School Eroticism:

  “Why not a 25-page sex scene?” — Sarah, recounting Stephanie Laurens’ signature style ([56:34])

• On Demon Trope Diversity:

  "Now when I think about demons, I feel like there’s just more of them out there because, like, you make your demon whatever you want... There’s not—The blueprint is not so intense as it is like with vampires." — Jen ([27:25])

• On Devils vs Demons as Love Interests:

  "You can't love me because I'm unlovable. And also, I've never felt a feeling." — Sarah (as “devil”) ([76:11]) "Demons are, 'I have every feeling!'" — Jen ([76:22])

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Episode Structure & Flow

• Intro & Halloween Recap ([00:00]-[03:58])
• Devil vs Demon Analysis ([04:15]-[06:49])
• Incubus/Succubus/Myth History ([09:03]-[13:12])
• Paranormal/Urban Fantasy Boom ([17:53]-[25:23])
• Monsterfucking and Current Trends ([26:02]-[34:13])
• Book Rec: Pleasure Unbound ([34:50])
• Book Rec: I Accidentally Summoned a Demon Boyfriend ([40:08])
• Deep Dive: Kresley Cole/IAD Demons ([44:09]-[51:28])
• Historical Demon: Sinster ([53:43])
• Recent/Cozy Demon Romance: Hawley, Bellefleur, Guerre ([62:01], [66:58], [73:55])
• Final Thoughts: Demon Stories as Community & Healing ([75:52]-end)

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For First-Time Listeners

This episode is a wild, affectionate tour through romance’s demon territory. Expect lively debate, joyous nostalgia, “problematic in italics” confessions, and a ton of thoughtful recommendations spanning from the foundational to the newest in demon romance. Episodes like these capture Fated Mates at its best—smart, self-aware, and always joyfully pro-romance.

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For full show notes, including book lists and further resources, visit fatedmates.net.

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Transcript

[Sarah McLean]

So it's Halloween week, which means we always dealt. We delve into something of the occult. We want you to. We want to give you what you want, everybody. You deserve nice things is what we're saying.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, listen, my very nice colleagues had to send me flowers for reasons. And on it, it said, you deserve nice things. And I was like, oh, apparently I say that everywhere. Oh, yes, it's true. So last year. I'm trying to look. Was it. Last year we did devils. So what.

[Sarah McLean]

What we did last year was interesting because it wasn't quite devils, although we did talk about one or two books where it was the literal devil. Yes, we. What we talked about last year was characters named Devil.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Correct.

[Sarah McLean]

Which really does move you into the historical world kind of exclusively. Because I don't understand you guys. Like, why can't contemporary writers name their characters devil? I. I would be fine with it. Just saying, free yourselves. Free yourselves from the shackles of, you know, realism. It's terrible out here in real world.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah McLean]

Character's devil. Enjoy yourselves.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Right now, actually, you know what? That was two years ago. Because last year, you know what we did last year was when we rolled out our theory about morticians. You know? Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, oh, last year we were serious.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Last year we did serious Halloween.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, we were. We were intellectual.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Last year it was in 2023. Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

And mortality and the grief industrial complex inside romance. And listen, I'm very proud of that episode. And people talk about it all the time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. It was like. But it was serious romance episode.

[Sarah McLean]

Too serious. I mean, we. I don't think I had a giggle one time. That is not the way today is gonna go.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No. So 2023 was devils in romance, but, like, characters named devil. October 2022. I'm, like, looking now now that, like.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm glad that you're going deep.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I.

[Sarah McLean]

Here.

[Jennifer Prokop]

October 2022, it just said spooky stuff, Halloween romance. And I think that might be the first one we did.

[Sarah McLean]

Spooky stuff. We don't know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Just anything that was, like, kind of monstery. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. And we were looking for, like. Like, is it possible essentially, like, this horror romance discussion. Right. Which I think we're having.

[Yael]

We're.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm seeing more and more.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, one of the books we talked about was Halloween. Boo. So.

[Sarah McLean]

Okay, so maybe not. But I do feel at some point we talked about, like, is it possible to be scary in romance?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And I think this is a thing that people are, you know, trying to figure out. Good luck to you all.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, that's simply not my business. Like, you'd be horny, but, I don't.

[Sarah McLean]

Know, you'd be scary.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, and I think. Here's the other thing. The whole first season of Faded Mates was monster mash every week. So I don't think we were really like. I think we took a few years before we're like, oh, maybe we can revisit this. So, in particular, shout out this week to one of our listeners, because we had someone really specifically say, like, I think you should do demons. And I was like, you.

[Sarah McLean]

Why not?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Are correct. We should.

[Sarah McLean]

Sounds great. And then, you know what happened, you guys, is I said, this sounds awesome. I am totally in. And then I realized that I'm going to have to confess, like, a certain amount of my own personal reading kinks without shame. And that was a surprising discovery that I had this week, where I was like, oh, no, I'm gonna have to talk about these. I'm gonna reveal myself, sure. As a particular kind of demon reader. Fine. But we're all friends here, and I won't. I won't have the shaming.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So introduce us, Sarah.

[Sarah McLean]

Welcome, everyone, to Fated mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels, and I wr.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Hi, I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And this week, it's like, demon to romance. Now, Sarah, here is my question I wanted to leave with. Please, before you have to shame yourself. Wink, wink.

[Sarah McLean]

None.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Nude judging.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, I've never done that before. On this podcast, everybody's always like, hey, Sarah, have you ever thought about running for office? I'm like, there's eight years of me saying embarrassing shit on the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Can you imagine the supercut? Sarah, what do you think is the hallmark of a demon in a romance versus, say, a devil? I. I have a theory, but I want to know if you have thought of this.

[Sarah McLean]

A demon versus a devil. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, like, if you're reading a book and they're, like, saying the demon.

[Sarah McLean]

Versus, like, a devil, demons are more of a paranormal thing, and devils are more of a historical thing, as we establish.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, all right.

[Sarah McLean]

I think I. Now I feel like there's a right answer, because you've got something in your.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't think there's a right answer.

[Sarah McLean]

I do think horns have to come into play.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Like, literally horn.

[Sarah McLean]

Although not always. And if they', horns, then they better be sexual organs.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

I don't know. You tell me. You've thought about. You already have an answer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Not necessarily, because I think. Listen, one of the things I will say is I was like, oh yeah, I can think of a few of these. And then like I did what I did, which was like I went to Goodreads and I was like, you know, demon romances. And there's millions of them.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So this is clearly not going to be true for all of them. But here's what I will say. I think the real defining feature of a demon romance is like when you first meet this fellow, they're always like a little ashamed of being a demon.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, all right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think dem have like a bit of the self abnegation going on. Right. Like they're like, I'm just so bad and wrong.

[Sarah McLean]

I was, I was made wrong.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Like run is dark fay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

So he's half demon, half fairy. And that's like, oh God.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Opposing no one could ever love. No. That's why he's tragic thing like me.

[Sarah McLean]

To everyone but her. Jen. And he's so ashamed of himself.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I love it.

[Sarah McLean]

I love it when they hate themselves. Yeah. The devil doesn't hate himself.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No. The devil's like, I am great.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, have you met me? I got my own land down here. Exactly. Whereas demons are like, oh, I'm like a little more tortured. I think they feel it a little. Like they're like the, you know, like they're a little more emotional.

[Sarah McLean]

They have, they have more feelings.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Deeper feelings. They have deeper feelings. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean it's interesting because as we were talking in the before we started this episode, I said to Jen, are you going to talk about your favorite demon? And she said, yeah, for sure. And I think so. I think like we have to start with the IID of it all.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Because I, I. Obviously we are not going to only recommend IID books, but it is on brand for us to reference. If you're gonna talk about demons and romance novels, you gotta talk about Malcolm, your favorite.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Maybe. He is like the blueprint for me.

[Sarah McLean]

Just full of shame.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The idea of it all. There's like a middle section with like the demons.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Kiss of a demon King and like.

[Sarah McLean]

Cade and Rides from K the twins.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And my baby Malcolm. And I was like, you know, those are some of my favorites. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Well. And then hang on a second because there's smoke demon who runs all the way through it. And then we finally get his story like I don't know, what, a year or two ago.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And then like I said, my sweet baby Ruhn is half demon. So he doesn't have the horns. Yeah. He's got like the beauty of the fae, but also the darkness of the demon.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And then.

[Sarah McLean]

I was thinking about Wicked Abyss, because as you know, I love cyan, but that's the king of all hells, so I think he's a devil.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He's a demon, though.

[Sarah McLean]

He's a demon king.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah McLean]

But is he like. But he's also the king of hell. Feels like could be the devil, but does have horns. And they are used to steer him, which is, I think, a critical piece of the demon puzzle. If they have horns, they've got to be sexual organs. And you have to be able to use them to steer them. By the way, everybody, this is a Headphones in episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Too late now, Sarah.

[Sarah McLean]

Hello to all of the mechanics out there who have accidentally stumbled to the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Car wash. Guys, thank you for your service. Cleaning out, like, dead candy out of the backseat of this mom's.

[Sarah McLean]

Those guys are like, wait, what book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What book do I have to get for my.

[Sarah McLean]

My lady friend? Not just for your lady friend. Enjoy it, my friend.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, so, no, I mean, so I think, like, that's it. I think demons just, like, can live in hell. Like, the devil is like the devil. Like, that's like Christian mythology. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

But like, I think about, like, that one Alicia Rye book where it's like Hades. Like, I think there's a lot of Hades going on in romance.

[Jennifer Prokop]

A lot of Hades. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And like, that's the devil, right? I don't know. Now we're getting deep into it because I really. Well, you know what? While we're on the Bible, let me just.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Words that probably will never hear again on this podcast. So everybody tune the fuck in.

[Sarah McLean]

You know, not. It's not every time that I actually do do, like, real, actual, like, intellectual research before we do an episode, everybody.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But here we are.

[Sarah McLean]

Apparently, it's the Valentine's. It's. No, it's not Valentine's. It's. Apparently it's the Halloween episodes where I really deliver. But I want to talk about incub and succubi, which is where we get sort of, like, quietly into my, like, kinky shame, which is. I really love an incubus book and I really love a succubus book. And I know they are problematic. Everybody. I host podcast called Theta Mates, so I think a lot about romance novels. I'm familiar with the problems of incubuses or incubi and succubi. But I do want to point out that the. The history of incubi and succub is biblical in some ways. The incubus is not biblical, but the succubus is. And this is because of patriarchy. But there is sort of a way of thinking about succubi where Lilith, who was Adam's first wife in the Jewish Testament or the Jewish Bible.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Lilith later.

[Sarah McLean]

Became a succubus, which feels interesting to me. I just think these are like, this is an interesting thing because ultimately later the concept in like, folklore, later the succubus became sirens. But sirens come from Greek mythology too. So I think, like, there's all this kind of like this idea of women taking semen and using it as life force in like a negative way. Like stealing semen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Stealing it. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Is interesting to me. Like, it's interesting to me because it feels like patriarchal in some way.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Or that makes sense.

[Sarah McLean]

Like a story of the patriarchy. However. Yeah. According to Wikipedia, at least not all succubi were necessarily malevolent in myth. Like, there are versions of succubi who then, like, basically like, take your semen and they use their own in the taking of your semen. They like, gift you with power. So there you go. They're all different ways. All different ways we can get here. But incubi actually do seem like fucking problems. I mean, I will say the. I will say the art around succubi is problematic in that it's a lot of like, women sitting on like, peaceful male men. Male men. Peaceful men in art. And then they are like. And the theory is that they are like, wet dreams are the result of succubi, like, being on, like, like taking from you. And then incubi, though that is like the result of the night terror. The result of. And then those dudes, they come and they like, take you while you are sleeping. And so listen, I don't hate it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't really think I am into like, demon lore outside of romance. Like, I was kind like, aren't there like, I mean, either like, TV shows, right.

[Sarah McLean]

Or.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Or whatever? Like, I think partly, maybe because I don't like horror, but like, you know, the whole idea of like, demons is scary.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So maybe I just have steered clear.

[Sarah McLean]

Of all that historically. The incubus, right? Like, so incub. Incubi. This is obviously very heteronormative.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right?

[Sarah McLean]

Like, incubi only come for women. Succubi only come for men. And the whole concept. In medieval Europe, there was this theory that like, incubi, if they came to you in your. In the. In night, at night, and you could be impregnated with a Witch or like some kind. And then. Or worse, if your child was born with a. With a disability or with a physical abnormality, then the theory was, well, you had been touched by an incubus. So, like, this shit is used in many ways to, like, diminish women historically.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So that's why in romance it's like, no, you had a chance to fuck them.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, don't worry about it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sounds good.

[Sarah McLean]

So, yes, I'm with you. Like, I certainly am not. I. I feel. I feel it's possible that that, like, Fantasia demon did imprint on me early. Okay. Like, that big. Like those big horns. Also, Tim Curry in that one movie.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I simply do not know what you're talking about.

[Sarah McLean]

Wait, in Legend? You never watched Legend when you were a kid?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Is that the one with David Bowie?

[Sarah McLean]

No, that's Labyrinth.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, boy. Same, same energy. Probably not the same energy at all. Everybody.

[Sarah McLean]

No, I would say Tim Curry is. So Tim Curry plays the Lord of Darkness. Now, I'm being told by the Internet, in legend, he is not the devil, he is just. He is the devil's son. So he is a demon and he. Listen, like, do I believe that he is. If, like, this man walked up to me on the street, would I find him attractive? Probably not. But as a child, did he definitely imprint himself on me? Yeah, probably. Okay, so you can look him up. That's Tim Curry from legend. And these are the horns, though. And listen, there's no question in my mind that Kressley Cole also imprinted on these Tim Curry horns. Here, I'm gonna send you. I'll just send you a picture so.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That you know that I can do a jump scare.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, I feel jump scare. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Zara Doyle, author of Tori and Her Wolf, the first in the New York Werewolves series.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So Tori is approximately 90% certain that her mate Hunter is about to reject her. And apparently that is very painful. So she does what any woman in her right mind would do, which is run. She runs in her beat up Toyota, she hides in Scranton, and she googles Hunter, kind of feeling a little sorry for herself when she notices how many attractive, rich, suitable women are after him. Good, they can have him, Sarah, as long as he does not formally reject her. So her life changes for the better when she's in New York City with an unexpectedly generous new job. There's no way Hunter is gonna find her in these masses of people, right?

[Sarah McLean]

Wrong.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. She stumbles upon him, literally, in the gym. She cannot help but notice his incredibly wide shoulders and muscled pecs. But her brain is in charge, Sarah, and so she is just determined to like steer clear of him. Even though the gym is in her new job's Even though it turns out that Hunter is not just her boss, he owns the company, she is positive now that she's not only is he going to reject her, he's also going to fire her. How much can one woman be expected to take? Sarah?

[Sarah McLean]

I think that Hunter is going to get her is actually what's going to happen. It's going to be really great fun. So if you also love a werewolf book with spice billionaires, forced proximity, enemies to lovers, and a strong woman who refuses to submit, then and you are going to love this one, which again is the first in the New York City Werewolf series. You can get it in print, ebook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited and actually the entire series. All four books are available right now in ku, so if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Zara Doyle for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I have a couple other thoughts about like a little bit about romance, history, mystery. To me, demons are like pretty firmly situated, or at least were in what I would call paranormal.

[Sarah McLean]

Do you see them now in Romantasy?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know. I don't read a whole lot of Romancy, so I couldn't answer that question. I don't think so. Right. I think to me it seems very much tied up in that. And I think that part of it is okay, like back to the whole like, you know, you're, you're. They hate themselves or whatever. They feel like ostracized. I mean, I think that like often these books are kind of like, you know, they don't really fit in anywhere. Right. Like it's some sort of symbol for like, you know, they're from hell maybe or like the underworld or whatever, but here they are on Earth or whatever other realm they're in. And so I mean I think that like a lot of the early like I was just telling Sarah before we started recording, like Larissa, I owns Daemonica.

[Sarah McLean]

Series.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Was the okay, I bought a Kindle. I was. As you can imagine, I'm not a super early adopter of a lot of technology. I just don't really. No one's shocked by that. Eric's laughing his ass off right now, listening to me say I don't care, however, that it was not true of the Kindle. I was like, oh, this Is for me.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, yeah, me too. I had version one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh.

[Sarah McLean]

First day somebody gave me one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't think I had it that early, but, like, I saw one. Someone I, like, had knew when it was had. I knew it was out there, and I saw somebody's and I got one. So this is like spring of 2010.

[Sarah McLean]

Early days.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Early days. And we went on a family vacation to, you know, like, with my husband's parents to, like, Wisconsin. It was just like. Like a, you know, like a condo or whatever. And I just look back. I basically was reading like, one of those a day. And I, like, these were some of the first books I ever downloaded to my Kindle. And I looked back, and it's literally like I just said, Sarah, the screenshot. It's like I ordered one. It was like, May 30, May 31, June 1, June 6, where I just was like, mainlining these books. Yep. So. And then I read it.

[Sarah McLean]

Wait, what year?

[Jennifer Prokop]

2010, I think the Kendall. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, that's the heart.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, that's the heyday of paranormal. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. And I also read a series by Richelle Mead, Succubus Blues.

[Sarah McLean]

Succubus Blues. Now, listen, I was going to talk about Succubus Blues this. This episode, because I really did love those books. Rachelle knows how to write a book. Like, I think if you. If you love an urban fantasy. These are. These are not paranormal romance. They are not. They are like kind of PG 13. They're not. Right. They do not get super sexy, but they are really charming, those books. And there are, I don't know, 10 of them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, well, yeah, I don't know. I might have read. I read those, I think, from the library, maybe those. And that's back. Here's what I also remember about those Reshell Mead books. Back in the day, everyone, there were some Kindle books before Kindle Unlimited that you could let people borrow. Oh, yeah. Remember, Remember?

[Sarah McLean]

That was great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so some of the books, essentially, you could let people borrow. So if they owned it, they could let you borrow it, and then it disappeared from their library while you were reading it until you returned it. And I believe I borrowed those because I don't own them. But I think that then one of the. But, like, this was not the case for all the books, only some of them.

[Sarah McLean]

Wait, I just want to say something else about Succubus Blues before we go on, which is. There are. I just looked it up. There are eight of them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, six.

[Sarah McLean]

Six novels. And then it looks like two novellas, maybe.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I was gonna say six was stuck in my head, but okay.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. And then. But. So this is urban fantasy, which we haven't really talked about very much on the podcast, but leans more toward The Ilona Andrews, J.D. robb side of things, where this is. Georgina Kincaid is the heroine of this series. She is a succubus. She works in a bookstore in Seattle. And she is, like, kind of obsessed with a human named Seth, who is. Which, like, now that I'm sort of recounting this, like, Seth is a really great human name. Like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah McLean]

You know what I mean? Like, a human dude who's, like, hot but very human. Right. Seth. And Seth is. And she's, like, like, obsessed with him, but she cannot touch him, because if she touches him, like, she'll drain. She'll, like, kill him. Like, he'll die. So it's cute in that it's, like, charming because she's, like, got this crush on him. But also, there is, like, kind of obviously more going on. Like, there's, you know, demons and baddies and other bad guys, and she ends up being the one who has to sort of, like, save the day every book. And these are very fun.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, and I think the other thing, like, I don't know if we've ever talked about, like, urban fantasy before. It's not. It feels like a dated phrase. I feel like I just call it, like, contemporary fantasy now. Like.

[Yael]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, essentially it's.

[Sarah McLean]

It's set in modern times.

[Jennifer Prokop]

In modern times.

[Sarah McLean]

And usually in a city. Like, it's usually like, you know, these are set in Chicago or in. This series is set in Seattle.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, right.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And there were tons of series. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Bunches. And they were all great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And a lot of them were, like. It was interesting. Like, there were ones like this that were kind of more romancy. Although, like you said, that was, like, strictly PG 13. But then there was, like, the Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. And those were all. Those were more, like, on the mystery side, I would say, in which. Which, like, Harry Dresden essentially is. And listen, the. I remember these really vividly because the Audi. I listen to all of these in audio because the narrator in audio is the guy who played Spike on Buffy.

[Sarah McLean]

And you loved that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And he's a professional wizard, but he's always, like, you know, running into demons and vampires and all, you know, like, solving essentially all of these, like, kind of paranormal problems.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

In Chicago, I mean, so, like, there were lots of serious. Like this that were kind of adjacent to every genre. Not Just romance. I mean, this was like you said, like, right. The. The heyday in some ways of like, kind of paranormal. And so there are lots of series like this. So, you know, the Larissa I own Demonica series was firmly romance. I would call the Rochelle Mead ones more kind of like swing. Right. Like, it could, like they had romance elements, but like you said, like, there was. It was all like, kisses. Only the Jim Butcher books, the Dresden Files books were more like kind of paranormal mystery, I would call them.

[Sarah McLean]

Yep. And then there was like Janine Frost had a series, the Night Huntress series. Those were all Cat and Bones. Was that his name?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think so.

[Sarah McLean]

I think that's his. That's his name.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But.

[Sarah McLean]

Cat. Yeah, Cat. The heroine's name is Cat. And like every single book it was like Cat and Bones against the world. And she was a half vampire, though.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. So, I mean, I think the whole like, demon thing now, it's interesting because. Okay, as paranormal fell off and like, kind of romantasy kind of rose up, it felt like that there who was gonna like, sort of revive demons. And I feel like it happened in concert with the witch revival. Then you get like, books, for example, like A Witch's Guide to Fake Dating a Demon by Sarah Holly. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Where Sarah, we know, is a huge Kressley Cole fan and was long before she was a writer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But these, you know, with us early in the rom comy Demons. Right. There's still. You know what I mean? And I listen, I loved. I really loved that first book. I don't think I read all the rest of that series, although now I'm like, I don't know. Why not? Just because sometimes it gets away from you. And so I think that like. Like we to me there and then, of course, it also was the rise of like, monster fucking. And so you get like, demons reappearing kind of. Because I think they were a little more. You could do anything with them. Right. It wasn't like vampires or, you know, werewolves, where it was like. It felt like it was so, like, locked in. Everybody was like, well, this is how it is, you know? And so I think that the. The now it feels like there's a lot of books that maybe are featuring demons because they weren't as pigeonholed into being a certain kind of thing. And some of them are like, kind of read like vampires to me, and some of them kind of read like rom com. I mean, so I think there's just like, interesting. Now when I think about demons, I feel like there's just More of a. I don't know. There's just, like, more of them out there because, like, you make your demon whatever you want, you know, you can. There's not. The blueprint is not so intense as it is like with vampires.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. But I also think, you know, it's interesting that you bring this up as, like, the demon, the. The renaissance of the demon, because I.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know if I'd say it's Renaissance, but I do think they're back.

[Sarah McLean]

In say about this. Like, I do have. I have a book on my list. Right. That is a. That is this year, and a demon romance. And I really loved it, and I'm gonna talk about it. But me, I don't know if this is because I'm a purist.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, I don't.

[Sarah McLean]

I don't think of myself as being purist. In fact, I think we often say, like, I'm sort of anything like. But I think for me, I want a character like a demon to not be cute. Right. Like, I want there to be stakes that feel like the end of the world. And I say that, and I'm sort of being caught. I'm being careful about saying that. And, like, if you hear. If you're hearing, like, hesitance, it's not. It's because I'm trying to sort of, like, wrap my head around what exactly I want. Because in the Alexandria Bellefleur book that came out this year that I really, really love is really charming in that way that Alexandria's books can be. Very, very charming. Like, it's funny. The banter's really great. The sort of, like, the stakes are. The stakes are there, but it's not end of the world stakes. It's end of this character's world stakes. Right. Which I guess is, like, it's good enough for me because Alexandria writes it and I really enjoyed it, but it feels to me, and I. Again, I don't know if this is because I sort of came up through Paranormal at the time when Paranormal was in conversation with the world about the literal end of the world.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, we're talking about Paranormal that was. That was. That really rose to power post 911 in the United States. Like, there were State the comp. The dialogue that the text was having with culture at the time was about kind of big bads that could end the. End the universe. And so, like, I wanted Demon to feel dangerous.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Jessica Thomas, author of Dare Me Ellie.

[Sarah McLean]

So this is the fourth book in Jessica's Bennett sister series, which is about a group of sisters who live in a community called Windsong. And Elizabeth is the most recent sister, and she has been married for a long time to a really remarkable man, Cameron. And they have this wonderful, loving, supportive marriage, and she pretty much living her best life. She's the town's librarian, and everything is going great until one day, a man walks into the library, and she realizes that this man is the person who. With whom she had a really traumatic experience when she was in high school, a traumatic experience that she never talks about and that even Cameron has not heard of and doesn't know anything about. This guy's back. And ultimately, like, he sort of remembers her, and he has this sort of misguided belief that she wants. Wants him to be a part of her life as much as he wants to be. And this is really bad for Ellie. She has spent years attempting to conceal what had happened. She's really bad at setting boundaries, and she's really caught between continuing to hide what's happened and continuing to keep those secrets and telling everybody about what happened. And the whole experience is just causing significant turmoil, especially when Cameron figures it all out and he decides he's going to step in and do everything he can to protect her from this man, from her past, even if it means going against Ellie's wishes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So this sounds like a really interesting plot, one that, like, really is a marriage in trouble, but, like, the trouble is what begins the book. And so how do we support each other through difficult times, especially when those times are so rooted in the past? So this has, like, the opportunity to be a really unconventional and interesting love story for romance readers. And please know that Jessica is committed to the happily ever after, even after characters face challenges and heartache. So you were. You're in safe hands if your podcasting app supports it. You can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book, which is available right now in print and ebook and with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. Thanks to Jessica Thomas for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Sarah McLean]

I want a monster to feel dangerous.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And I think now they are sexy.

[Sarah McLean]

They're, like, sweet. Like, orcs are not dangerous. They're sweet.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, so, for example, I know that you enjoyed the. The Kimberly Lemming has demons.

[Yael]

I did.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Yeah. So I think that it's the time.

[Sarah McLean]

I got drunk and yeeted a love potion at a demon. Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think that's, like, the fluidity I'm talking about. Right. And then you have like, A Lady of Rook's Grave Manor, which is straight up demon fucking. Like, just. That's all there is. Right. And I mean, I actually listen, I. And I enjoy a dirty book. And I was like, wow, this is a lot, even for me. You know what I mean? So, I mean, I think that there are books where it's really, like, playing, you know, like, they're. So now there's, like, kind of different buckets. And I think for you and me, I mean, and like, so, for example, like, like Charlotte Stein had that first book with a werewolf. And now the second book that just came out, which I haven't read yet, but I like Charlotte's books, is dealing with a desperate demon where they kind of, like, need help. He needs help or support.

[Sarah McLean]

And Heather Guare has a demon, a demon book, demon lover, which was really fun.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And he's like, blue, like the ice planet barbarians, horns, like, like crest demons. Like, I mean, he's sort of a great combo of things, but also an incubus, everybody. So.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think there's just more. A little more of everything when it comes to.

[Sarah McLean]

There is more of everything. So I. But I do think, like, I think this is one of those episodes where obviously we're going to bounce all over the place, but I do think that we have to have conversations about, like, old romance in order to have conversations about new romance here. And I also think when I was thinking about, like, what's the order? I want to talk about these books that I've picked. Picked in. And I think it's most problematic to least fair.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know what? Okay.

[Sarah McLean]

And like, when I say problematic, it's like, imagine it like, in, like, cursive problematic.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, my God, Sarah. Like, you know what? I'm just like, Moulin Rouge. Yeah, problematic. There you go. Listen, put it in the Lily library.

[Sarah McLean]

Because I'm just going to jump right in. I'm going to jump right in. I want to talk about Pleasure Unbound by Larissa. Ione.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Ione.

[Sarah McLean]

Ione. Larissa Ione. This is book one of the Demonica series. And I start here because I start here because the series started here and I started here. And so you all should start here, too. But yeah, big, like, cursive. Here we are talking about a series of demons. All of these. These books are demon books. The first book is set in a demon hospital. This is again, another situation where it's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like.

[Sarah McLean]

Urban fantasy in the sense that it is set against our real world, like the current. You know, like, it's all happening like, in the real world. So Pleasure Unbound, the hero is. So the. The demon hospital is the place where, like, one. When the demons fight each other, the different, like, factions of demons fight each other and they get hurt. They are sent to this hospital that's, like, basically like Switzerland. It's like, you can't fight each other in the hospital. Like, when you're here, you have to be. You can't harm other. Other demons. Problem. Our heroine Tayla is not actually a demon. She is a demon slayer. So think like, Buffy. This is clearly. This whole series is clearly very inspired by Buffy. Like, Larissa's obviously, like a Buffy lover. Taylor is, like I said, a demon hunter. She gets into, like, a kerfuffle. She ends up at the hospital, and when she gets there, she, like, all the demons who work at this hospital, because it's sort of like a public hospital. Like, and you could good and accidentally sort of stumble into this hospital. They're all in disguise. But the head doctor, who is an incubus and has brothers who are also incubi, a family of incubi, if you will, immediately is, like, looks at her. And all the demons are like, no, fuck this. Like, humans are the worst. Like, there's like, a demon Bible that's, like, basically, like, humans are the worst. And he's like, well, humans may be the worst, but, like. Like, I'm a doctor and I have, like, demon Hippocratic oath. And so I have to take care of her. So he, like, heals her. And like, he either. I can't remember. He, like, either puts her into a coma or, like, she's in a coma, but she's point is she's unconscious. And his brother, who is the demon that she was going to hunt, turns up at the hospital and is like, like, your Hippocratic oath. Like, the. Like, this is a demon hospital. This is a humans. Humans are the worst. Like, I'm gonna go in there and I'm gonna kill her. And he's like, you can't. And so the brother's like, okay, well, I'm at least gonna mess with her. And so this incubus goes into the hospital room, and this is where we get to the problematic part, which is he goes into the hospital, she's unconscious, and he, like, starts to, like, give her a sex dream. The brother, her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, boy.

[Sarah McLean]

And he. So the hero walks in and is basically like, hey, you. You can't mess with her. He's also, of course, like, instantly like, oh, I gotta. I got. Like, she's Amazing. I'm very drawn. He's very drawn to her, right? Also, it's important to note that this hero is like a sex demon who has like, if he doesn't have sex a bunch all the time, he dies. So. But big problem, everybody, because in order for him to have this is a lot. I feel. I feel like I'm just telling. I'm all over the place with this book, but you're going to want to know the. The key things here, which is like, if he takes a partner and is in love with her, like when he makes like a faded mate situation happen, she has to be able to come. Like, that's part of the deal, right? Or else I think like, if she doesn't come, he doesn't come. Which I love it. I'm for parody of orgasm. Problem is our heroin does not come. Like, has never come from like a partner in sex. Like, does not do this business. So anyway, he walks into the coma room and discovers his brother has been like messing with her. He like goes off the handle. He sends his brother out. But like now Jen, she's like in heat. I'm like, what is an incubus to do?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know Sarah. I bet she'll figure it out.

[Sarah McLean]

So anyway, also, if like he doesn't get a fate of me, like within a certain amount of time, he'll go crazy and die. Like, anyway, there's a lot going on in this book also, like a whole plot that is romance reasons. And so I just should. Jerry, if this feels. The sex in this book is early and plentiful. So if this feels like the kind of book that you would like to try appreciating that it is really sort of right at the sort of core of my paranormal kink, then there it is. Pleasure Unbound by Larissa Ione.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, I am going to talk about I Accidentally Summoned a Demon Boyfriend by Jessica Cage. And this is. I don't know that I would call it. Problem. Problematic. I'm not going in Sarah's order, everybody. I just, I'm not. I'm sorry, I have too much pressure to reorder them. You know what? Here's what I will say about this book.

[Sarah McLean]

Is it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This is one of those books that I think is like, the tone is really like irreverent and funny. And so it starts off with Reyna and she's like over 35. I don't think she's quite 40, but I think she's kind of like really sitting with the fact that she's kind of like the last single one, and she can't find the right man. And she's going out on these dates, and it's terrible. And, you know, like, nothing is right and she can't figure it out. And so, you know, she has. She has, like, a really bad date, and the guy, like, ruins her car, and she gets drunk and then accidentally summons demon boyfriend named Matisse. Because she. I think I can't. She essentially has, like, a spell book or something. Right. Like, she doesn't mean to be summoning a demon boyfriend, but that's, in fact, what she does. And so accidental demon. Accidental. Now, in this case, the thing is, is he's like the kind of more mature, serious one. Because even though Reina is, you know, over almost 40, she's just, you know, I mean, I don't know. Like, I think it's really interesting. I was kind of like, sometimes I'm, like, reminding myself of the plot of a book by looking at, like, Goodreads. And a lot of people, like, you know, are like, she's so immature. But, I mean, I think that's what I remember is, like, being the fun of this book. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

That's also, like, a real hallmark of, like, some aversion. A one arm of the paranormal tree is this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right. Like, essentially that. That's part of why, like, you don't. You don't accidentally drunkenly summon a demon if you aren't a little reckless. Like, that is how it has to be.

[Sarah McLean]

You know, not for nothing, but we. When we did our first season about Immortals After Dark, which are all paranormal romances, we often talked about, like, which were the books where you could enter the, like, highway. Like, which were the. On ramps to the. To the highway of this. This world. Right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And invariably the answer to that is any book where the heroine was a human. Right. Because a human sort of comes into the space and needs to be taught about the world, which can lead to a level of, like, reading them, being slightly naive because they are. They don't know what the fuck is happening. She did not expect to summon a demon.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sometimes I feel like, well, if you read the back of this book, you'd have to understand that she was a little reckless. Otherwise you wouldn't get drunk and actually end up with a demon in your house.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Meanwhile, this particular demon has a rotating deck. And so I think that's nice because I think the other thing that a lot of these books really have is, like, really very inventive with, like, you know, now, right. Here on the COVID he does have some very nice horns. So that's all you need to know about that. So it's really. Listen, I thought it was really fun. I had a really good time reading it. And I think if you, for example, did like the Kimberly Lemming, like, to me, even like, the COVID art has like, sort of like, it feels like it is like in conversation, like saying like, hey, if you love Kimberly Lemming, like, this is like a similar type of vibe to that book. So that is I accidentally summoned a demon boyfriend. And although I have not read it, there is a second book I accidentally hooked up with a vampire. And the name of this series is Accidents Happen. So I loved it.

[Sarah McLean]

Let's see, where do we go from here? I think I'm sort of. Oh, no. Well, I mean, we didn't talk. We didn't actually name all the, all the Crestley books. I would say that they are the next most problematic in my list.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I'm ready to talk about Crustley, so you talk about yours and I'm going to talk about my baby, Malcolm. This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Rachel Runya Katz, author of Isn't It Obvious?

[Sarah McLean]

So I talked about this book, the. The fall preview episode, because I think this is such a charming setup and I love you've Got Mail retelling. When high school librarian Yael's secret podcast starts to take off, she is kind of at her wits end. Like, she's got the burden of the podcast, but she's also a school librarian and she's also got her own mental health and she runs a queer teen book club after school. So to maintain her anonymity and to maintain, you know, her own, like, sense of. Of self preservation, she hires Kevin, a remote freelance editor and producer who can, like, help her keep the podcast afloat as it starts to really take off. To maintain her anonymity, though, she has a very strict rule, which is they communicate only via email, and Kevin only knows her by her podcast Persona, L. Little does Yael know that Kevin goes in real life by his middle name, Ravi, and she's met him before when he tried to sneak out of her bedroom window after a one night stand with her roommate, Charlie. Anyway, she never expects him to show up to volunteer at the queer book club she runs, but suddenly, there she is. And while they are clashing in real life and sparks are starting to fly over email, she and Kevin are starting to fall in love. Problem is, Ravi discovers the truth in real life before she does. And he knows that if he reveals who he really is, everything could explode. So the big question is, what happens when Yale finds out? And will these two crazy kids make it work?

[Jennifer Prokop]

If you love a hidden identity romance, and frankly, who doesn't? This forced proximity workplace romance might be for you in love online enemies in real life. Sign me up. So if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. And as a special treat for fated mates listeners, at the end of this episode, you can stick around around and hear an audio excerpt of the book. Thanks to Rachel Runya cats for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Sarah McLean]

So we talked about this, right? There's the twins, Ridestrom and Cade. I didn't even write down the names of their titles. So anybody who's been listening to this podcast for any length of time knows I have no idea what those books are called. One of them is Kiss of a Demon King. That's Ridestrom. And that one is. Listen, if you. You think you like enemies to lovers, you are not allowed to say that until you've read this book. Because Ram and Sabine, which are the two character, the main characters in this book are they hate each other so fucking much. And they are like cruel and unusual to each other. And still many, many people claim this to be their favorite Crustley book, which is, I'm happy for them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I support you.

[Sarah McLean]

We support you here. And then of course, there's Ruhn, who is half demon. And obviously he is my sweet baby and he's set apart because I love him so much. And then there is, we said Cyan, who is the king of all hells. There's some discussion as to whether or not he is the actual devil or a demon. Point is, he does have the big horns. Jen, I did send you a picture. I don't know if you had a chance to look.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I saw that. That. I don't know. I don't. That did. Whatever those buttons are. Those. I do not have those buttons.

[Sarah McLean]

You don't have those buttons?

[Jennifer Prokop]

That button has not been installed in me, no.

[Sarah McLean]

Okay. But then there is McCreeve, which Jen is not a huge FA fan of, but I really love. And the heroine of McCree. So hero of McCree is a werewolf. The heroine of McCreeve is a succubus, but she doesn't know it. No one knows it. And she comes into her succubus powers about halfway through this book. And I will say, this is a tough read. This is a read where like, there is a lot, like, check your content warnings.

[Yael]

She.

[Sarah McLean]

He has a very, very devastating past with child abuse and sexual abuse. And there is just like it. He treats her really poorly because he judges succubi in a really terrible way. But I love the way that he is, like, tortured at the end for all of the bad ways that he treats her. And as you all know, I feel that this whole episode is problematic in a cursive language. So that is. So there is. I love McCreeve. I also believe McCreeve is a place where you can enter IAD because Chloe, the heroine, who is a suck succubus, is a human. And then she becomes a succubus within the context of the book, and she has to learn about the world as a succubus. I also think, though, Jen's favorite is another one that you could enter into with because of the reverse.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, it's Demon from the Dark. This is probably my favorite. And, you know, this is like, kind of the beginning of, like, the Torture island arc in some ways, right? Because what's happened is Caro has been, like, caught is, you know, by, like, the bad guys, sent to essentially, like, this demon realm where she meets Malcolm, and he is a demon vampire hybrid, and he lives in some sort of hell plane. And, like, essentially, she has been sent back. She has been sent by, like, the bad guys, right, to go and extract him. And he is just, like, you know, sad man living alone with his pools of water or whatever. And I think one of the things that. I think there's, like, a lot of things I really like about it. Like, one, I think, like, this is really where I imprinted on the idea of, like, him being like, you know, no one will ever love me. But also, like, he. When he flips, right, when they, like, get out of his. This plane, you know, it's, like, really interesting. I'm always really interested in a book where the main characters form a relationship under one set of circumstances. So in this case, he is the protector. They are alone together in this, like, hell plane that's just the two of them, right? And then when they. Then at some point in the book, there's a big shift, and now they're back on Earth and he doesn't know anything about this world, and she knows everything, and they are no longer alone. They are on the run. And, you know, there's a small child. She has, like, a niece, essentially, that she is now, you know, kind of the reason she essentially betrays Malcolm is to save her niece. From these bad guys. And, you know, the enemies he thought he understood back on his plane are completely different. And I always really like a book that essentially puts people in a phone booth and then dumps them out of it again.

[Sarah McLean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And. Right. And so I think that, like, one of the reasons it's. I just like this book in general is because of it. Like, the plotting of that is always really pleasing to me. And so I think that's also why, like, as Sarah was saying, it's a good starter book for IED in some ways, because Caro has to essentially teach Malcolm about the world. And then Malcolm's ability to sort of understand things and use his own strength in certain ways. And the way that his sad boy feels get, like, used against him in some ways because of his love for her and how betrayed he feels by that. So I just think it's, like, a really great book in the sense that. I don't know, like. Right. I don't know if that makes sense. Like, he's a great character, but I also just love the entire setup of that. And, like, I will say, this is like, back in the day, back on Twitter, this is. You can't find this anymore. It's gone. Kate had a really funny. Do you remember this? A really funny thread on Twitter that was like, which one of your romance heroes, how would they act at Halloween, right? Doing trick or treating? And it was really funny. It was, like, hilarious. And I was like, you know, like, Malcolm would be, like, shocked at bobbing for apples because he'd be like, how are they wasting water like this? Because that water was, like, at a premium. And his little hell plane. And that's the thing, like, right? He gets to Earth and he's. And she's like, yeah, we gotta get out of here. And he's like, Ra is falling from the sky. What are you talking about? This place is great.

[Sarah McLean]

And she's like, wait till you experience a bath.

[Jennifer Prokop]

One of my favorite things, actually, about UID is, like, how much they all are really in showers. Like, what's Laughlin, who's been, like, underneath the catacombs of Paris, like, flush burned off, Is, like, showers. What the. This is the greatest thing I've ever experienced. Wait, you just put the car in D and it drives. I hate everybody. Right? It's amazing. So, yeah, that's Demon from the Dark, and I love it.

[Sarah McLean]

All right, let's talk about Demon Sinister. Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah. I was like, are there any.

[Sarah McLean]

I was gonna save it till the end, but if we're Going in my order. Then I need to put Demon sister in here before I get to the cute ones.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It also is interesting because I was like, there are a million romance heroes named Devil. But, like, I really was like, are there other ones named Dean Demon?

[Sarah McLean]

Not many, I don't think. I think there are. There are, like, historical heroes who are like, the demon of something or like. Yes, right, He's a real demon. Or like, Demon is maybe in the title.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Stephanie Lauren, just like. No, this motherfucker's nickname is Demon. Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

His actual name, though. Do you remember what his actual name is?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I looked it up.

[Sarah McLean]

Harold.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Henry is Harold.

[Sarah McLean]

Listen, computer, call me Demon, which I honestly do not. I would not have known that it was Harold. But I did look at the family tree, because the. The sinister book. So Stephanie Lawrence, we did Devil's Bride in the second season because it was a book that, like, in the 90s, really, like, gave a lot of us joy. And there she created her own family, like so many romance novel novelists, especially historical romance novelists in the 90s. And they were the sinsters. And Demon Sinister is the fourth. But this is the fourth book in the series. And you would think that I would have written down the name of this book, but I didn't roll A Rogue's Proposal.

[Jennifer Prokop]

A Rogue's Proposal.

[Sarah McLean]

A Rogues Proposal. And so it's Demon and Felicity. And listen, nobody liked an age gap like Stephanie Lawrence liked an age gap. So Demon is 11 years older than Felicity. And this. This is repeated again and again. It's a big piece of the story here. But the biggest thing that you need to know is Demon is like. He is a rake. He is a scoundrel. He has a million mistresses. He has mistresses, you know, from here to, I don't know, across the continent. And he has absolutely no interest in two things.

[Jennifer Prokop]

One, marriage.

[Sarah McLean]

He's definitely not doing that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, flat out, a sinister man would never get married.

[Sarah McLean]

A sister man would never get married. And here's something that also is true. He will never say I love you, because sinster men do not say I love you. And that's not a joke. That's real. No sinster man until this book says I love you on page.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I did love this one. Also, there's a lot of romance horse in this book. Oh, yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Like a third of the book is romance horse.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And that's why it's surprising that I loved it. But also, this book is real hot. Like, memorably hot.

[Sarah McLean]

Yes, this is so. Okay. Stephanie Lawrence is sort Of. I'm sure I talked about this in season two, but I'll say it again because so many of you are new here. Stephanie Lawrence is the historical romance novelist who basically was like, why not a 25 page sex scene? Why not?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Why not?

[Sarah McLean]

And everybody was like, we all were reading normal romances and then we were like, we all picked up like, listen, this is the one that really like rocks. Rocks us into 25 page sex scenes. And we picked up a rogues proposal and we were like, holy. Why not 25 page sex scenes. They are long and drawn out and, you know, and I can't complain. Anyway, Felicity the heroine. This also is for anybody who loves a heroine dressed as a stable boy. Because she's actually not dressed as a stable way. She's just in trousers because she likes horses.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah McLean]

And you can't just like jump up on a horse whenever you want if you're wearing a dress. But whenever she's in the stable dress in trousers, everybody just thinks she's a boy. Course he walks in, he's like, that lady has a nice ass. And then that's it. Then he. But then he spends like, I don't know, half the book being like, oh, but she's 11 years younger than me and I'm a. I won't fall in love with a child. I mean, she's not a child.

[Jennifer Prokop]

She's a grown. She's a grownup.

[Sarah McLean]

And then one day, and she wants him so bad. This is another thing that, that, that Stephanie does really well. And then one day she just, just like walks up to him at a ball. It's about, I don't know, 40%, 50% of the way through the book. And she's like, you know what? You. She's like, you're an idiot. You want me as much as I want you. Yeah. This is really dumb. You're really dumb. Has anybody ever told you how dumb you are? And he. No one has ever told him how dumb he is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of course not.

[Sarah McLean]

And so he lifts her directly up, takes her out onto the dark balcony and her against the wall.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Wall. Yeah, there's a lot of. This man has a lot of upper body strength and he knows how to use it.

[Sarah McLean]

A plus work. And that is why we call him Demon.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Listen, I don't even really have strong memories for these scenes. Typically he puts her up on top of a table. Remember this like a dressing like a dressing table or like a whatever. And like.

[Sarah McLean]

Just does the job. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He's like, if this is the perfect height for me to you, silly.

[Sarah McLean]

And I remember being situation that that Loris Ione guy does, which is, he can't come until she does.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, he can't say I.

[Sarah McLean]

We don't need magic for that. In historicals, histor romance, heroes cannot come until she comes. That's just the way it is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, and I think the other thing, like, part of the scene, if I remember correctly, about, like, the wall and the table and stuff, is she's like. This is like her innocence, right? Like, she's been around a million stables and I've seen horses in the barn or whatever, but, like, knowing that you could, like, you know, have sex on top of a table, I mean, she's literally like, what? Don't be ridiculous. And she's. He's like, well, don't worry, I'll show you. I'll show you how.

[Sarah McLean]

She's like, you're stupid. And he'll say. And he's like, yeah, you want me to show you how smart I am? Let me show you all the ways I can get you rogered.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So, yeah, that was on my list, too. A Rogue's Proposal. A historical demon, but demon sinister.

[Sarah McLean]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by HarperCollins, publishers of NE Davenport's Our Vicious Oaths.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Kadisha is a princess who wants nothing to do with politics. She's a warrior first and foremost and believes her greatest strength will be leading her squadron of elite winged serpent flyers to protect her homeless land. A little catch. She has been bound since infancy to be betrothed to the Hyperion High King. And she's just, like, really tired of all these men bossing her around. And so repulsed by sort of the control they have over her, she decides to spend one last night of freedom in the arms of a dangerous stranger, Malachi, who takes her to sexual height she's never experienced before. Problem is, he is using Khadijah to set a trap for her betrothed, the High King. So on Khadijah's wedding day, Mal Malachi and his special forces attack. Her father is killed. Malachi wounds but does not kill the High King, and Khadijah is taken hostage by him. She is determined, though, not to stay hostage for long, and instead the two form a pact. She will help lure the High King so that Malachi can kill him once and for all if in return, he does not harm her or her people. And so, all of a sudden, politics. She's in it, but the bonds between her and her people seem like the strong to her. Until she starts to fall in love with Malachi, and all of a sudden, their feelings are even stronger. Will they be able to, like, keep this pack, bring down the High King, and, you know, save everybody from the forces of evil?

[Sarah McLean]

Well, the tagline for this book is, the enemy of my enemy is my lover, and I'm very much for that. So if you are also for that or for romantasy with enemies, lovers, shadow, daddies, forbidden Roman romance, et cetera, you are going to love this book. It is a standalone romantasy. It is not part of a series. So you can find our vicious oaths right now in print's ebook or audiobook, and if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to NE Davenport and HarperCollins Publishers for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So I would like to actually, actually return to Sarah Holly, which is Guide to Fake Dating a Demon, which is. Here's a funny story, everybody. I. Okay, wait. I'm gonna pause and tell you why this book was on my mind. And then it was perfect. So I met, like, a cousin for the first time. So we were at a family event, and my husband's cousin's wife right now, like, he's been married to her for 30 years. Like, I should have met her, but she's a little bit older than me. And so, like, you know, this cousin Will came to my wedding, but his wife Dina didn't. And so anyway, we're sitting down, and, like, sometimes people are like, tell people about your podcast. And I was like, I don't wanna. Because what if it's like, people are like, you know, romance novels. Ha, ha. Which I just don't really proselytize about romance. So Dina sitting next to me, and she's like, oh, I love romance. And I was like, okay. And then you're like, kind of like, do they mean that they like Danielle Steele? Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, that's. This is the big question. Are you really a romance?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Really a romance reader?

[Sarah McLean]

You've read a Nicholas Sparks novel one time?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. So she's like, I love Bridgerton. And I was like, oh, okay. I was like, did you read them, too? And she's like, yeah. And I was like, oh, now we're cooking with gas. So we start talking.

[Sarah McLean]

You know, I host a podcast with Sarah McCall. Yeah, right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So I was like, listen.

[Sarah McLean]

I know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And, you know, it's also really interesting because, you know, so many romance readers are not hooked into any, like, romance. Like, they're not on social Media, and they don't listen to podcasts. Like, they have no idea what's out there. So they're just like, whatever's in my library or whatever. And so we were chatting, and I actually. Then it was. There was a big sale. I'm sorry. At Amazon. It was like, buy to get one free. So I was like, all right. I was like, dean, I'm going to send you some books. So I got on that sale, and I sent her, like, one of your books, and I sent her a Beverly Jenkins, and I sent her, like, a list. Lisa Claypus. And I. So I was trying to, like, kind of like. And then I was like, okay, like, now I want to think about, like, I sent her a Kennedy Ryan. You know, I was like, really trying to, like, what are the great romances that I. That are available at this sale? And one of them was this book, right. Which is Guide to Fake Dating a Demon. Because I was like, you know, sometimes people.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, it's a little different.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's a little different. But, like, you know, give it a shot. And I really did. I think I probably talked about this book before on the podcast. I really did love this book quite a bit. And part of the reason is because, along with. So Mariel is the main character, and she, like, the. I don't know, like, the. It has been foretold that she is going to be the most powerful witch in centuries, but she cannot figure her shit out at all. Right. So her parents are like, why can't you do any of these hexes and spells? Right? And she's just like, I just want to, like, bake. Like, what's going on here? And so, like, essentially, she's really. It's like, there's a lot of family pressure, and so she's.

[Sarah McLean]

She's supposed to inherit the business, and she doesn't want to. Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And she doesn't know how to. Right. Like, she essentially is like, everyone says I'm gonna be the most powerful witch, and I can't even say summon flour for my baking project against. Across the kitchen. So basically, when she tries that move, she accidentally summons a demon. Ozarth the Ruthless Oth, I guess, maybe.

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And his job is essentially, like, you know, like, he's collecting souls. Like, more like a devil job.

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so he has had something go wrong. And so he's kind of on the outs with the other demons. And so it's like, basically like, listen, if he get Mariel soul, she's supposed to be so powerful, that's going to be really good for him. And so he is like, listen, I cannot let this go wrong, so I'm gonna have to babysit this dummy, right? And instead they, like. And he's like, it's like classic Grumpy Sunshine, right? She is just, like, cute and adorable and curvy and witchy and wants to, like, bake muffins. And he's like, I'm a demon.

[Sarah McLean]

It's great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I just did, like, I really. I was truly delighted by this book. Like, it's just like one of those ones that it, like, the. The fun of it, it, like, really, really hits. But there is because of this, like, lurking, you know, like, bargain that she might, you know, lose her soul and the one she loves might take it from her, right? This is, you know, it's it. So it does feel like it has stakes, even though it also is, like, really cute and cozy and adorable. So I really loved it in I cannot wait to hear if Tina likes it. So it is A Witch's Guide to Fake Dating a Demon by Sarah Hawley. It's terrific.

[Sarah McLean]

I love it. I want to talk about Alexandria. Bella Flor is the devil she knows, which I sort of mentioned earlier, but I want to get into. It is Sapphic and it is delicious. And if you have read any of Alexandria's other books, you know it's sexy. So there's a lot going on here. But there is something really charming and funny and sweet about this book as well. Like I said, it's full of banter. And here's the tee up. I'm going to give you the, like, meet cute. So our heroine, Samantha, has had, like, the worst day, which it feels like this. We've all seen the romance that begins this way. Like, her girlfriend has left her. She is like, she doesn't have an apartment anymore. Like, there's sort of a lot going on. And she gets into the elevator and, like. And she's just, like, having a really bad day. And there's no one else in the elevator with her. And then there's, like, the lights go off and there's like a crack of thunder or like a flash of lightning. And then boom, there's a woman in the elevator with her. And this woman is the most beautiful woman Samantha has ever seen before, ever. And she introduced me herself, and she says, hello, I'm Daphne and I'm a demon. And she is there to basically say it's. This is not a three wish. A three wish rule, but this is. It's a fian bargain. Samantha gets Six wishes in exchange for her soul.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay?

[Sarah McLean]

And Samantha's like, this is gonna be great. I don't need six wishes. I need one. One wish. And then you will never get my soul. Because I never finished the wishes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This is. I just feel like people really seem to think they can loophole. And I don't think I have that in me. I. I really think I'd be like, my soul, I think I need it.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. And so you all know how this goes. So then she's. So she's basically like, okay. So Samantha says, like, I only need one wish. And Daphne, he's like, sure. Because what we don't know right away is that Daphne has taken 999 souls. And the rule in hell is that if you get a thousand, you are free of your own demon God, demon hood. And so the. And the devil is like, the devil is very intelligent, as we all know. He's very crafty. And he basically like, this is the setup. So Daphne is basically like, okay, fine, you only need one wish. What's your wish? So Samantha makes her first wish with the idea that, like, this is the only wish I will need because it will make my girlfriend love me again and that will bring my life back to normal. Like, all I want is for this woman to love me. I love this too. Because, like, if she. Because it sets it up where, like, there really is an internal conflict here. Like, Daphne might falling for the. Daphne, the demon might be falling for Samantha. But, like, all Samantha thinks she wants is a different person to love her. Right. But at the very beginning, Daphne's not falling in love with Samantha. Daphne is just like, fine, I'll give you all of your wishes. I'll give you this wish, but I'm going to give it to you with a twist that makes you have to use the next one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The rest of them. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Have to use the next one. Except by the time they get down the rabbit hole to like wishes for five.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Five.

[Sarah McLean]

Daphne is in love with her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And so the struggle, the internal struggle here is. Is it my. Like, at what cost? Like, if I take your soul, I free myself. But if I take your soul, you're beholden to him for a thousand wishes. A thousand souls.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

So it's emotional, it's sexy, it's funny, it's bantery, it's clever, it's like Faustian bargain, which I always love as a structure. And I had a great time reading it. Yeah, that's Alexandria. Bella Flor's the Devil she knows. And then I Just have one more. That's just very sweet. Okay. Like a full spectrum of devil ro. Of demon romances. And that is Heather Guare's demon lover. So everybody knows that. I actually really love Heather Guare. I thought preferential treatment is. I still think preferential treatment is one of the best romances and one of the best billionaire romances I've ever read. And the structure of this book is very. This is very short. It's about like 120 pages, maybe, maybe a little bit longer. But like, it's. It's a tight read. And our heroine Autumn has been having these, like, back to incubi. Has been having these like super sexy dreams every night. And like every night there is this like horned, like, you know, glowing eyed, blue skinned, just sex God who comes into her dreams and like her and like, gives her a great deal of pleasure to the point where like, she's really. She really looks forward to going to sleep every night. And then one night she wakes up, wakes up like she has like, she has like a very intense orgasm and it wakes her and boom, he is there. And so, boom, demon. Boom, demon in your bedroom. What are you gonna do? And so like, what I will say is this is really like two characters in a phone booth book. Like, they. They don't do a whole lot other than like hang around and like in her apartment and have sex. But they do fall for each other. And it is very sweet. And the. It becomes very clear that she's basically like, I want to free you. Like, how do we get you out? A lot of these demon books are. This is not the world building of, say, Crustley. But like, there are so many demon books where the story. And this goes back to your point about shame, Jen. Like, the story is like, I hate myself because I'm a demon. I want to get out.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this anymore. My job sucks.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like demon union. Like, listen, they need to write somebody write the demon union. Romance would be great. Falls in love, the union organizer, Norma Ray.

[Sarah McLean]

Make it a demon. So, okay, basically, so he is bound to the death devil and the only way to free him is for Autumn to sacrifice her soul. So, like, the thing about all of these books, you can, you know, throw a stone in demon romance and hit one of these. And like, but the work, the real writing work here is these authors have to come up with a creative way to fix it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right.

[Sarah McLean]

That's not always easy. And I think that we don't give paranormal writers enough credit for the plot setting of these books. Like, I sort of wave it away as, like, it's romance reasons.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But, like, right.

[Sarah McLean]

How you actually trick the devil is when, like, it's established, it's lore. Like, it's. I mean, it's everything. It's actual human, real world mythology that the devil can't be tricked. Yeah. So that's Demon Lover by Heather Fall in Love. Exactly. It's sexy and it's sweet and you're gonna have a great time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, we really were talking about, like, essentially, like, books where, like, the main character, like. Right. Like, falling in love with the demon is like, the plot. But, you know, like, sometimes there are the bad guys. Like, you know, everybody loves. I just want to, like, throw out. I love that book Dionysus in Wisconsin so much. And, like, it's a demon who essentially has, like, Is, like the bad guy in the book. And the two men who fall in love have to, like, figure out how to, like, vanquish the demon who has a hold on one of their souls without kind of even realizing that it's happened. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so, like, if you are interested in more of a book where, like, they fight the demon as the bad guy, like, I. I listen, that book is delightful, and I loved everything about it. And I just think it's also like. I think one of the other things I was thinking is a lot of these books is they really, like, lean into the, like, sort of like the teamwork aspect of it. Right. Like, if there's a bad guy and a demon, like, we have to figure it out together. And that is the root of a good romance, and it's the root of a good. Right. These stor. Stories are often about, like, that's it. We have to band together to figure this out. So.

[Sarah McLean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, these are. I think that's the thing that these are, like, demon books often, I think, lend.

[Sarah McLean]

Lean.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Lean into community. Whereas, like, you know, devil books are just like, you know, I'm the. I'm the big bad. I'm the worst bad guy in this part of the town.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But now I'm gonna take you to Gretna Green and marry you Devil in Winter.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly, exactly. You can't love me because I'm unlovable. And also, I've never felt a feeling.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, no.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And demons are.

[Sarah McLean]

I have every feeling.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Demons are like, oh, I have all these feelings of I'm not good enough.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I love. I love a hero with shame. See? Exactly.

[Sarah McLean]

As everyone knows there has never been and never will be a Sarah McLean hero who thinks thinks he's worthy of the heroine. Why would I write that? I have no idea. Today is Eric Mortensen's birthday. Eric is our producer. He also lives in my house with me and we love him and Happy Birthday to Eric. We are Sarah McLean and Jen Prokop. We are Faded Mates and you can find us every week at Beta Mates. You can find us online at Faded Mates pod, on threads and Instagram or you can find us at unfaded mates at Bluesky. We are available at faded mates.net and wherever you get your podcasts every Wednesday. Faded mates.net will also bring you to collections built by our listeners, by experts, by authors who we know and love. You can head over there and click on collections to see they are built by real humans, not by algorithms and all related to, like, fun microtropes. You can also click on Episodes to go read Show Notes, where every book we talked about this week will be listed in Show Notes along with other things like, you know, articles about incubi and succubi, those kinds of things. You'll have a great time. Other than that, we are here, we are with you, we love you for listening and we hope you're taking care of yourselves and others. Don't forget to stick around after the episode for a sneak peek of Rachel Runia Katz's Isn't It Obvious In Audiobook. We're excited about this one. Thanks to Rachel Runya Katz for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Have a good one, everybody.

[Yael]

Yael awakens in a haze, her limbs, her tongue, her very being heavy with the kind of sleep that borders on coma. This hasn't happened in a while and she forgot this part. How everything goes cloudy and waking up seems to be a minutes long process, each part of her brain stuttering on sequentially like a series of breakers being flipped. She hasn't forgotten about hyperventilating on the phone to Sanaya yesterday, convinced she was going to lose her book club and her podcast, which of course would make her lose her day job too, because she knows she'd be entirely checked out already. Without her carefully curated hobbies, her career would be over. She would never get a full night's sleep again. The Olanzapine helps with some of the embarrassment. At least she had managed to wrap her hair before falling asleep this time. Mercifully, when she finally wills herself out of bed and into a shower, she won't spend 45 minutes combing out the beginnings of a lock formed at her crown. She sits up with an aggrieved sigh, her volume proportional to her effort. A loud thunk echoes throughout the room, probably her phone sliding off from where it was, balanced precariously on the edge of her clothes comforter. Christ, Christ, not her phone. She turns toward the voice and is greeted with an unfamiliar man straddling her windowsill and rubbing his hand against the back of his head. A reasonable response would be to scream, but Yael has two and a half milligrams of medical grade antipsychotic coursing through her veins. Her heart couldn't race if a rabid animal were chasing it right now, and for the next couple of hours her emotional response to just about anything will be oh, okay. Which is why she looks at him long enough to take stock of the position of his body, the fact that the pain pushed up above him is unbroken. Are you breaking out, out of my room? She asks. His full lips curve into a sheepish smile. Yeah, I am. I suppose I am. Oh, okay. Why are you breaking out of my room? I didn't realize you were home. I promise, he says. The texture of his voice is smooth and rich, but the tone varies greatly across a few short words. Far too much song in it to be English, but there's an unmistakable Commonwealth quality to his accent. Caribbean, maybe. Yael is too foggy to place it further, and I didn't want to disturb Charles. Charlie, Yael thinks. Definitely thought you were British. You could have just as easily tiptoed to the front door, she says, extending her clasped hands overhead, then to each side, stretching her obliques. The man follows the motion with his eyes, as if momentarily transfixed.

[Sarah McLean]

I.

[Yael]

See he looks at her, tilting his jaw upward, that closed lipped smile quirking again, but he doesn't continue, like he expects her to put something together in her oh, okay state. That's unlikely to happen. I just woke up, she says. My brain is too cloudy to decipher subtext. But not too cloudy to use the phrase decipher subtext. The man said says, his dark, thick, perfectly formed eyebrows lifting upward toward artfully tousled, equally dark, equally thick hair. Yael briefly wonders what she looks like since her silk scarf is tied securely and she seems to be in sleepwear. There's a good chance she brushed her teeth, probably even washed her face, possibly moisture. More than likely, though, her skin is dry, oily, or somehow both, and is creased from wrinkles in her pillowcase. She shrugs. Humor me, she says.

[Sarah McLean]

Why are you in here?

[Yael]

There has to be a better way to sneak away from your sleeping lover than through his roommate's occupied bedroom.