← Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
S08.08: Romance Short Stories and the Ladies in Waiting Anthology
02:10:01
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- [00:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Sarah, I don't mean to laugh, but you look like you're literally recording from a pillow fort.
- [00:05]
Sarah McLean
It's true. I'm in Rhode island, cat sitting for my sister, which means, like, already I've had to stop and put the cat out of the room because I don't have a cat traditionally. So I don't understand that. They just do whatever.
- [00:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, they're in charge.
- [00:24]
Sarah McLean
They're like, oh, you're busy. That means I'm in. I'm going to be on your lap right now.
- [00:28]
Jennifer Prokop
Meanwhile, if you wanted them, they'd be like, no, I'm sorry, I'm not available right now.
- [00:35]
Sarah McLean
So anyway. But my sister has a very beautifully designed home. Like, stunning. Everybody is very jealous of her.
- [00:43]
Jennifer Prokop
Gorgeous home.
- [00:44]
Sarah McLean
But the truth is that there is no, not a single soft edge anywhere in it. So Eric was like, can you put a blanket over your head to record?
- [00:54]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Then I'll be calling him. I'd be like, call 91 1. She passed out.
- [01:01]
Sarah McLean
And then. And Jen was like, absolutely not.
- [01:03]
Jennifer Prokop
What's happening?
- [01:05]
Sarah McLean
And it is true. There's, like, no way to do this. So if it's a little echoey, everybody, please don't blame Eric. Please blame my sister for her design motifs.
- [01:16]
Jennifer Prokop
And I'm sick. So it's fall. It's, you know, the weather has changed, and I'm going to get an upper respiratory infection and end up at Virgin Care. And I did.
- [01:27]
Sarah McLean
So it's a mess today. And Eric is doing yeoman's work, as they say. I mean, you know, we have to keep it. We have to keep it exciting for him or else he'd just get bored and he would be done with us.
- [01:40]
Jennifer Prokop
That's true. So.
- [01:42]
Sarah McLean
But we have a really fun topic today, and I'm excited about it.
- [01:46]
Jennifer Prokop
So introduce us first, Sarah.
- [01:49]
Sarah McLean
Welcome, everyone, to Fated mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.
- [01:55]
Jennifer Prokop
And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And this week is an exciting week for Sarah. Tell us why.
- [02:02]
Sarah McLean
Well, so I have a book out this week, which is kind of a surprise, honestly, to me. Every time I think about it, I don't actually have a whole book out. I am one of a collection of authors who are included in a short story collection from Simon and Schuster called Ladies in Waiting. And the premise of this short story collection, when it was proposed to me by the editor of the anthology, was, do you have a character from an Austen novel who you love very much and who never got a happily ever after in the text? And would you be interested in writing a short story in which you give that character a happily ever after? And I immediately knew who I wanted to write about and I said yes. And it turned out that we ended up in this remarkable anthology with, you know, nine authors who are all just every one of them is amazing. From, you know, Diana Quincy to Nikki Payne to Eluisa James to Adriana Triggiani. It's a tremendous group of people. Eleanor Lippman is in it. Not everybody is a romance novelist, but everybody kind of takes a swing at the happily ever after or at least the happy for now. And I think that people really, really enjoy it. And. But it's interesting because I have written. This is now my second romance short. Actually it's my third romance short story and I wrote one called the Bladesmith Queen, which is available if you sign up for my newsletter, but you can also get it online because I know Jen, for example, hates to have to sign up for a newsletter for something. But I also know that lots of people like a free thing when they sign up for newsletters, so it does a little double duty. And then I have another, which is ya, which is, um. What's that one called? It's in a book called Generation Wonder.
- [04:11]
Jennifer Prokop
I know I was like in Generation Wonder, but I don't know the actual name.
- [04:14]
Sarah McLean
It's in Generation Wonder and I wish I could remember the name of it. Anyway, it's.
- [04:20]
Elle
I'll.
- [04:21]
Sarah McLean
It'll come to me.
- [04:22]
Jennifer Prokop
I'll.
- [04:22]
Sarah McLean
I'll, I'll get it.
- [04:23]
Jennifer Prokop
I'll get it. It'll be in show notes.
- [04:24]
Sarah McLean
Exactly. And so, and as I was writing this, I was really thinking a lot about how difficult short stories are in romance.
- [04:38]
Jennifer Prokop
I want. Because you didn't mention, for example, the Duke who has a sheep.
- [04:45]
Sarah McLean
We don't know the names of anything that I've written. A duke worth falling for. But that's 40. That's almost 40,000 words.
- [04:52]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. So I do want you to talk about like when we talk about like, so we're going to talk really about like super short fiction today and like how, you know what I mean? I don't think a lot of people who are just readers really think that much about length in like, right by word count. So is there like standards, you know, talk to us about how that all.
- [05:14]
Sarah McLean
Breaks down when you originally really good thought. Because I do think romance lends itself to say the novella format, which is longer. So when we think about a full length romance novel, something that I, you know, if you're thinking about One of my historicals or sort of any, any, any romance novel that you think about. You're thinking about generally about 75,000 to 100,000 words, which is a significant difference in terms of page count. But, you know, and so most normal people do not think about word count. But so I guess we're sort of thinking about maybe 350 to 450 words, I'm sorry, pages. And then you have the category romance, which we've talked about many times. Those are those kind of old fashioned Harlequins. Those are more like 50 to 70,000 words. So again, like 250 to 350 pages. And then you have novellas which are maybe 100, 150, maybe on the high end, 200 pages. And novellas are obviously a much shorter. They're a much shorter format. They strip out traditionally anything that is a B plot or like secondary characters don't really get very, you know, very much full attention. We, you rarely in a novella see the hero or heroine or, you know, any of the protagonists kind of separate from the other protagonists in the book. And so you kind of, as things get shorter, stuff gets cut out. But you know, several years ago, maybe five or six years ago, I was talking to my editor at HarperCollins and we were talking about the. What are the, the kind of. Is it New American Library or is it Norton? Like the kind of best American short stories? Those, you know, those collections?
- [07:16]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes. Yeah.
- [07:17]
Sarah McLean
Is it Norton? I don't, I can't remember. It doesn't matter. Point is, and it's like, you know, they have a collection every year and it's like best science writing, best American short stories, best, you know, best mystery short stories or best, you know, whatever. And I said to her, it's sort of weird, isn't it, that there is no best romance short story. And she said, well, Sarah, romance is very difficult to write in such short formats. So when we talk about short stories, we're talking about, you know, between 10 and 40 pages really short. And you know, when we talked about that, she said, and, and I think she was really right. Like, it is very difficult to build up the level of emotion it takes to have a satisfying romance in 10, 20, 30 pages. You really need to be. Short fiction needs to be your, your art form for you to be able.
- [08:19]
Jennifer Prokop
To pull that off.
- [08:20]
Sarah McLean
And I think that romance just doesn't lend itself to that. And so we don't tend to see that many very short romance novels like short, short stories in romance. And so I had written, I was Writing the My short story about Ms. Bates from Emma, which is called the Triumph of Hetty Bates in this book, Ladies in Waiting. And I read Nikki Payne's short story in this, in this anthology. I read Diana Quincy's and I thought, oh, this will be really. This would be an interesting topic. Like, let's talk about like histor. Not historical. Let's talk about romance short fiction and see if we can come up with a list that are worth reading. You know, and this is not an exhaustive list. There are obviously many, many romances that are worth reading. In fact, I, when I was looking for it, because it's very easy to come up with a novella, right. For example, the after the End anthology, which Adriana and Ali Hazelwood are just now. The Kickstarter that is just now coming to pass. Like those are all novellas we're talking about, you know, 40 to 50,000 words you can find. You can throw a stone and hit a great Roman romance novella. But I went online to Threads and I said, hey, if you have an, you know, a romance, a short story under 15, 000 words, which is about 60 pages, would you send it to me? And so and. Or would you at least let me know and I'll put. We'll post a link to that thread in show notes so you can go look. Because we did not, obviously we are not going to talk about every short story in that thread.
- [10:12]
Jennifer Prokop
And although the ones that I am I'm going to talk about did come from that thread. Like I was.
- [10:17]
Sarah McLean
Some of mine came from that thread too, but also some of mine came from other things. So. But you had a thought about short stories.
- [10:29]
Jennifer Prokop
So this isn't really about romance as much as it is about like life in my day job as a teacher. Right. And I think as readers right out there in the world, I'm sure you, like me, are seeing I'm talking like the audience know, not just you, Sarah. Seeing a lot of the like sort of articles about the decline in reading.
- [10:53]
Sarah McLean
Yeah, right.
- [10:54]
Jennifer Prokop
Not just in among children. Right. Which is kind of a, a very specific kind of problem. Right. But like, just like the decline in reading overall. If you're a reader, of course, you're just like, why aren't people reading? Like, what is going on? Reading is the best thing ever. Right. And I think that there's like a lot of way and there's a lot of competition for our time. So I mean, I think we've all had that experience of kind of how, you know, why did I spend so much Time scrolling instead of reading. And I think it's very easy to sort of point the finger. You know, schools aren't doing the right thing, Teachers aren't doing the right thing. You know, I mean, obviously. But it was very interesting because I saw a. I think it was on Blue Sky. I don't actually remember. It might have been on threads where someone was like, pointing out, you know, this is also. It's like, very easy to sort of point fingers. But this is also in many ways, like a class issue. Right? Like, leisure time for reading is. And then, like, books are more expensive. And then also, you know, people are working multiple jobs or so much more worried about how to make ends meet. And so reading, you know, it's like, you know, the bad things for you are free. TikTok is free. You can just scroll all day on that thing. But, you know, finding a book and reading a book is. Or like, having access to things can. Can cost more, right? Your time, your money, whatever. I really was trying to spend some time thinking about this too. Like, what would be the appeal of short fiction is, like, it's so easy. And I'm sure we've all had this experience of, like, really realizing our reading stamina is different than it used to be.
- [12:47]
Sarah McLean
Right.
- [12:48]
Jennifer Prokop
And so maybe right now, if you're listening, you're like, you know, I used to read a lot more, and I just don't have the time or the energy or whatever. You know, reading some of these shorter things might be a great way to just sort of like, build that capacity again.
- [13:06]
Sarah McLean
Exactly.
- [13:07]
Jennifer Prokop
And. And it's fun. And it just also, you know, sometimes it's like, I don't know, like, it's just like a pure shot of romance as. You know, one of the things I was really thinking about when I was thinking about the books I was reading is like, these books are pure romance reasons.
- [13:22]
Sarah McLean
Oh, a thousand percent, you know, because.
- [13:26]
Jennifer Prokop
There is not a lot of time for backstory. And it's just like, boom, here's what it is. And so I think that it, you know, if you're struggling a bit with, I don't know, like, I don't, you know, or you're in a reading slump. I feel like sometimes changing up what you're reading can really help.
- [13:47]
Sarah McLean
This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by K and L, the hosts of the what in the Smut podcast.
- [13:57]
Jennifer Prokop
So listen, One of the most popular and amazing channels on our discord is one where people talk about bananas books. And listen, we love a bananas read here at Faded Mates. But we do not talk about a bananas read every week. For that you are going to have to turn to L and K. And they're brilliantly funny. What in the Smut Podcast. What they do is every week they talk about a smutty book all about how the smut works and the relationship dynamics, the feels and what the lore brings to the table. And so you know, honestly this is just like a really amazing opportunity for you to just hear about whatever wildly funny over the top read that they happen to to be talking about this week, but with curiosity and no judgment. Every week they are looking to answer the age old question is the smut smutting? They love getting recommendations from listeners and they have covered many of our favorite bananas reads such as for example Morning Glory Milking Farm. They have done an episode on Ice Planet Barbarians. They've done an episode on Railed by the Easter Bunny, one of those, I think peeps romances. This is really for those of you that are just in the mood sometimes for a great laugh and people who love the fun bananas bonkers romance books. The more bananas the better.
- [15:24]
Sarah McLean
Well, did you see that they also just recently over the course of October have done multiple Headless Horseman romances. And I was like how did I miss Headless Horseman romance?
- [15:35]
Jennifer Prokop
Now you don't have to miss it, Sarah. They've got you. Thank you.
- [15:38]
Sarah McLean
Thank you. What in this month, if you too would like to thank what in this mutt, you can do that by listening to the podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, head over to the app, maybe you're listening on right now and search what in the Smut to get a taste of it. But if you'd like even a quicker taste of it, just stay tuned to the end of this episode and you'll get a sneak peek at what in the Smut. A special episode is going to be dropped right here for you. Thanks so much to K and Elle and the what in the Smut podcast and Headless Horsemen everywhere for sponsoring this week's episode. I want to go back to the the Austin anthology just for a second because as I started to think about this episode and what you know, the ways the framing, framing device to use as we were thinking about how to recommend things. So one of the things that Caroline Linden, who I have said on the podcast many, many times, you know is one of I think the best romance novel novella ists or you know, the one of the best writers of novellas in romance and I remember talking to her just about like How I think her, her novellas are so tightly structured and there's. They just, they're like a, you know, a bullet from a gun. They just go so fast and they're so like compulsively readable. And I remember her saying to me, like, novellas are the best thing, her favorite thing to write because she's like, I just leave out all the boring stuff. And I think, you know, there's something to that. Like, as a writer, obviously, you know, hopefully when you're reading a novel, you're not bored ever. But there is a lot of sort of exposition. There are scenes that have to be in the structure of a long form novel to sort of move the plot from A to B to C in a way, way that like you said in a novella it can be tighter. And in a short story, it really is like, boom, we're starting exactly where the story starts and you're just getting the romance part. That said, I think there are a couple of structures for short stories that work better than anything else. So obviously in the Austen anthology, and this is not common amongst, among romance short stories, but it is common among fanfic, which we know a lot of readers come to romance through fic. You know, this anthology really is a lot of. It's sort of fic adjacent, right. I don't write thick, but this is after the, After Emma ends, What happens to Ms. Bates? So from in my, in my story, we're still in Regency, we're still in Austen's world. I'm playing in Austen's playground with Austen characters, right. And I add a missing man to this world, right. I bring in a character who plays in the Emma world. You know, there are other characters. Nikki Payne, for example, reimagines Georgina Darcy. I'm sorry, not Georgina Darcy, Caroline Bingley from Pride and Prejudice. And in that scenario, you know, Nikki picks her up from Pride and Prejudice and sets her down in New Orleans in the late 1800s. Right? So Nikki is moving, is sort of inspired by a character, like changing the universe. And then, you know, there are other people who are telling kind of similar stories with the characters and some of them are, you know, moving the characters around. And so all of this is. Is from fit, right? We're using a specific character that Austin fans know and love.
- [19:35]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [19:35]
Sarah McLean
And so like there's something, there's something. Naturally, the short story works in this manner because the characters already know, the readers already know who the characters are. Right?
- [19:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [19:51]
Sarah McLean
Then there's. So that's Ladies in Waiting. And I Don't have anything else on my list that is similar to that. But what is interesting, though, is that the other thing that really, really works here, and you must have several of them on your list, I imagine, is Second Chance, right?
- [20:10]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, yeah.
- [20:10]
Sarah McLean
Characters who already know each other. And the reason why it works so well, and I would say it is incredibly difficult to succeed writing a short story with two characters who've never met before because you have to drop them into the story with an existing emotional relationship. And I think that that is. That's the really, like, I think all of mine are also characters who already know each other, and most of them are characters who at least one of them already has feelings for the other. And we've also. And we're also catching feelings in these 30 pages.
- [20:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, wait, I know. I do have one where they meet at the beginning, and I have one.
- [21:01]
Sarah McLean
Where they meet at the beginning, too. But it's new adult, that one.
- [21:06]
Jennifer Prokop
And then some of the other ones also started off as, like, audio. Right. So the one that I'm thinking of start. You know, there's. That. Is it called Read Me Romance Podcast? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So I read something, and I didn't realize until after that that it started off on that. But, I mean, like, a lot of there's, like, Audible originals, like, so Sonali Dev has a Audible original that is, you know, 60 pages or whatever. So I do think that maybe those would be ones. But those are gonna be on the. Almost to novella length anyway. Right. But if we're talking short 15,000 words or less, all of those are they. They know each other already.
- [21:53]
Sarah McLean
I guess now is a good time for me to talk about the one that I. That. That where they don't know each other already. And interestingly, I have. I have one. I wrote one that sort of straddles the line. And I can talk about that one, too. But the.
- [22:09]
Jennifer Prokop
All right, sorry. I have another question, though, before we dive into that, about the ladies in waiting, which is. And I know that you're not a big, thick writer, but I do wonder. I did find myself wondering, did it feel higher stakes to borrow a character from Jane Austen? Did you feel a bit of imposter syndrome? Sarah?
- [22:34]
Sarah McLean
I mean, listen, no offense to Stephenie.
- [22:36]
Jennifer Prokop
Meyer, but.
- [22:40]
Sarah McLean
No, I mean 1,000%. I mean, there was definitely a moment where I tapped, texted Nikki Payne. I was in the middle of writing it, and I texted Nikki Payne. And I was like, not me over here. Like, just fucking writing literal the world of Emma. And, like, thinking I Mean. No. Yeah, it was. It was awful. Like, there was. There were definitely moments where I was like, this is a crazy thing to do.
- [23:07]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Different even than, like, a retelling. Right. Which, like, Nikki obviously has. Has done. I mean, those. It almost feels like, you know, there's so many Pride and Prejudice retellings. Like, I feel like the stakes have to be, like, a lot lower. But, like, I took a Jane Austen character and thought I. Like, I was like, that does seem kind of intense.
- [23:27]
Sarah McLean
I think the way that I got around it was, like, mentally how I wrapped my head around it was. I reread Emma and I highlighted all the places where Ms. Bates. So those of you who don't know EMMA Very well, Ms. Bates is kind of an aging spinster. In the context of Emma, Emma is a really sort of. She's a deeply unlikable character. Like, as you. You know, when you spend a lot of time with Emma, you're sort of like, oh, she's like, spoiled rotten. She's very wealthy. She, like, is constantly meddling in other people's affairs. She's, you know, her. Her good friend falls for a kind of farmer. Her good friend who is not wealthy and not well off and not. Not, you know, noble in any way, falls for a kind of very sweet farmer in the neighborhood, in the. In the village. And Emma's like, no, you can't be with him. Like, he's a. He's just a farmer. We're gonna hook you up with somebody better. And, like, it just. Everything about Emma on, you know, I love her in a lot of ways because I like a character who really has to do a lot of work over the course of a book, but she's not a kind character. Like, she makes a lot of mistakes along the way. And there's an aging spinster who is poor and never had. Never was never married. She's the daughter of a vicar. She was the daughter of a country vicar, the village vicar, who then died. And so she and her mother have really, like, they exist within the. The universe of this world as like, two kind of ladies who rely on the kindness of their neighbors.
- [25:13]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [25:13]
Sarah McLean
She is the opposite of Emma. She is not beautiful. She is not young. She is not wealthy. She's not. She's none of those things. And she's sort of presented by Emma, the character as being silly, but she's presented by Austen as being really lovely, like the third person narrator. The narrative structure of this book tells you a different story about this character than Emma the character tells you about this character. And so what I did was I went through Emma. I reread it. I highlighted every reference to Ms. Bates made by the third person omniscient narrator and any other character who wasn't Emma. And then I wrote a book about that person and gave her, or a book, a short story about that person and gave her the self awareness to be able to acknowledge that what Emma believed her to be is what the rest of that society started to like, treat her as. And so it was really. I had a lovely time once I sort of got myself into the. Into thinking, like, I'm not actually writing like Austin. I'm not. I'm not trying to do like Austen part 2. I was more real. It became a real character study. And also, like, she's a darling, wonderful, like older spinstery, you know, character. And I wanted her to have a heroic ending. Like, I wanted her to have love. And, you know, but it does. I think if you know that book, you will find that this is. There are a lot of like, touchstones from the text in it. So it ended up being really me leaving a lot of Easter eggs for readers. So I think if you love Emma the way I love Emma, you're gonna have a great time with it. But yes, of course. No, I had to really figure out a way to navigate this story without telling myself. I had to write like Jane Austen.
- [27:29]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, I mean, that seems like it would be really intense. But you know what? If Amy Heckerling can do it, then you can too.
- [27:34]
Sarah McLean
Oh, thank you so much. But Amy Heckerling really was great. So.
- [27:37]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, so, yeah, I just was like. I feel like you were skating past that. I know you don't like to talk about yourself, Sarah, but.
- [27:43]
Sarah McLean
Well, I mean, thank you for the question. And I should say also the Ms. Bates story that I wrote is a second chance. It is quite literally. There was a man when she was young, and she loved him and he loved her and they could not be together. And now he has returned. And so it's, you know, 20 years later and he is back. And there is a little bit of a secret. There's a little bit of a twist. Anyway, so. But I want to talk, first of all, before we do anything else. I want to talk about Nisha Sharma. I want to talk about no Taste Like Home by Nisha, which is a YA sort of. The heroine is a freshman in college and it's in the Home has no Borders anthology, which was edited by Samir Ahmed. And the concept of this book is to bring short stories about South Asian young people. They, you know, Samira, you know, collected a number of short stories from South Asian writers about South Asian young people in the United States. And so each one, not all of them are romance. Some of them are love stories that sort of end, you know, not quite so happily ever after as Nisha's does. And others are just different kinds of stories. But this is kind of an anthology. If you're out there and you're looking for an anthology of stories for a young person in your life, this might.
- [29:20]
Jennifer Prokop
Be perfect for you.
- [29:21]
Sarah McLean
Anyway, Nisha's story is very cute and really, like, a clever little setup.
- [29:27]
Elle
It's.
- [29:28]
Sarah McLean
Gosh, I don't. I didn't. I read. I read this one on. On E. But so in. On in the table of contents, it's about 25 pages. So that gives you a sense of, you know, it's very tightly done. And so the premise is that the heroine of this book, who is it is her first week on campus. She's, like I said, a freshman in college. And her name is Reet Kumar. And she has been. Her parents sent her a care package from Seattle. And so she has to go to the mail room at school to pick up the care package from her parents. And she gets there and she's like, waiting for the. She's put in her slip. She's waiting for the people to. To get her package. And they call out Kumar. And another person, a very, very handsome older boy, he's a sophomore or junior, steps forward because his last name is also Kumar. And he is also receiving a package. He's waiting for a package. And so they kind of like, they have a very, very sweet meet cute in the moment in the line at the. At the, you know, male center. She refers to him as Kumar number two. He immediately falls into Kumar. She's. She's Kumar number one. They have this very cute, like, back and forth. Obviously have a, like, tiny little crush on each other part ways without giving each other their numbers. And just. She sort of like, goes Rico's home to her dorm, sort of thinking, like, oh, I hope I get to meet him again. I get to see him again. Gets home, and it turns out that they've switched boxes. He has her box, she has his box. And what's really charming about this book is that they both. She opens his box, like, not knowing, and then realizes that what's inside is not for her. And what's inside of his box is a bunch of food, like treats from his mom that. That have been sent to school. And when she meets up with him to give her box to. To like trade the boxes again, they open her box and everything that's in her box is her favorite treats from home, from her family. And they're from different parts of India and so, you know, they share treats or the families are from different parts of India and so they share their different sort of like. Like cultural touchstones, but also like the taste of home. And then they. There is this beautiful moment where they combine like his favorite treat and her favorite treat and they eat it together and it's like better for being the combination of both. And it's just like, listen, it's very sweet. I'm not even sure there's a kiss in this story. But at the end he's like, you know, do you have a boyfriend? And she's like, no, do you have a girlfriend? And like now they're gonna, you know, it's just very charming and sweet and it's a like, it's a delightful little morsel. So that is Nisha Sharma's no Taste like Home in the Home has no borders anthology.
- [32:56]
Jennifer Prokop
This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by William Morrow Publishers of Akwaeke Emezi's Son of the Morning.
- [33:06]
Sarah McLean
We have been waiting for this book, and by we I mean all of publishing has been waiting for this book forever. Because when we all read you made a fool of death with your beauty, we fell in love with Okwaeke's writing. And now they are back. And they are back with a steamy paranormal romance set in the black south. A kind of journey of magic and fantasy with a very clear of sexy romance right through it. Our heroine, tenderhearted Galilee, was raised by the Kincaid's, a formidable clan of black women sequestered deep in the weeping willows and the dark rushing creeks of the south. Galilee has always known though that she is different. Though she can't put her finger on what it is, she knows there's a kind of secret around her very existence that has made her feel somewhat hollow since she was a child. And like she's just kind of has to deal with it until she meets Lucifer. Are you ready?
- [34:06]
Jennifer Prokop
I am ready.
- [34:07]
Sarah McLean
All of a sudden I'm like, what? What? He is fronting as the head of security for her wealthy friend and he's protecting a mysterious and ancient artifact. But the moment Galilee lays eyes on him, she knows this is not a human man. And from the first time he touches her, Lucifer knows something that galley doesn't even know about herself. Which is that she is not human either. Enter Leviathan, Lucifer's most TR Prince of Hell. Levi is ruthless and determined to eliminate Galilee because she's a real danger. She knows more about Lucifer than anybody else, and if she reveals it, they're all screwed. I mean, hopefully in multiple ways. And so an unseen battle rages between Hell and Heaven and Earth. There is a loyalty situation here. Lucifer and Galilee are falling, getting deeper and deeper into attraction. The tropes listed for this book include mmf. So I'm expecting that to get into here too. And I just honestly cannot wait to just dig into this big paranormal romance. We all deserve nice things, yes?
- [35:18]
Jennifer Prokop
So if you would like this wildly original fantasy, it is available in print, ebook and audio. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to buy the book. Thanks to William Morrow and Akwaeke Emezi for sponsoring this week's episode. The one I'm going to talk about. Where they meet at the beginning is called Falling for Nola by Katie Russ. And Katie writes like a lot of romantic suspense and she is like, always delivers a real good story. So I, when I saw her reply to your thread that she had one, I was like, oh, I should check this out because I like her books. And I was really curious about it. Like I said, it's on the longer side because it started off as being for the Read Me Romance anthology. So I think like, it's like 50ish pages. And the thing that's really interesting about this book is to me is that even though it's a really short page count, it's a long timeline. And I thought that was like, very interesting because what happens is, okay, so Nola is our heroine and she wakes up in the middle of the night for like the third night in a row because her new neighbor has driven home with his super loud motorcycle. And she's like, I'm not gonna put up this bullshit anymore. And she like rushes outside to basically yell at him. Like, you know, everybody's asleep and how dare. And it turns out that he is a firefighter who has either, like, just bought his own house. And like, and like, genuinely is really kind of like, like, I mean, honestly, it felt very real. Like, kind of like I didn't even really think about it, you idiot. And so, you know, she yells at him and they sort of, you know, it's like sparks fly. But you know, Nola is not gonna be. And this takes place in New Orleans, which is also really funny. Her name's Nola. So they meet up at, like, a community, like a party, a picnic in the neighborhood. And, you know, he offers to have a ride on his motorcycle. And, you know, basically he's kind of like, you know, like, let's, you know, make out or whatever. I don't know what he really says, but she is like, you're my neighbor, and if this goes sideways, then that's not gonna work for me because then I will have to deal with you being next door to me. And that seems like a bad idea. The book then, like, essentially, like, sort of skips forward kind of like sometimes like weeks or even like months at a time as they, like, become friends through, like, community parties and picnics. And I think there's like a, you know, even. What is it? What's Fat Tuesday? I'm like, space Mardi Gras. Mardi Gras. I'm like, what's the name of it again? Okay, sorry, I'm a little fuzzy, everybody. And finally, like, at the end, and this is what's also really interesting, is like, this is. It's a. It's a closed door romance. I'm not saying that in a bad way. Right. Is finally at the end, you know, it's like. And then it's like Christmas. And, you know, they really are essentially like, okay, we're friends, you know, now we're friends, and we know what we are to each other. And so I'm in love with you. You know what I mean? And so it's really kind of an interest. It was interesting to me because I feel like the timeline on so many romance novels is so sped up. Right? Like, here it is 300 pages and it's two weeks, and here instead it's 50 pages. And it was like, not a year exactly, but it was a. It was months. She really feels like Case has to prove to her that he is, I don't know, like, worth the potential. Like, what if it doesn't work out, right? Like, prove to me that you're, like, legit first. You can't just be the guy who wakes up all the neighbors. Anyway, I really liked it. It was really fun. And I did not listen to it on audio. I just read it with my eyes. But I bet it is still available in audio on the Read Me Romance podcast, if you want to try checking that out. Or other, you know, stories by authors you might know. And I think the way it works is don't they release like, one chapter a day or something or. Yeah, for, like, I think, yeah, for a week. Or something thing. So.
- [39:51]
Sarah McLean
Okay, so I don't think I have anything that goes for a long, like, over a long period of time. I think everything else that I have is, like, pretty tight. But I do just want to say that I did read, after she advertised on the podcast several weeks ago, I did read all the. His Duchess's Lovers books by Elizabeth Rube.
- [40:14]
Jennifer Prokop
Did you really?
- [40:15]
Sarah McLean
I sure did. One right after another because they were like. Like 30 pages long. So you can get all these books in KU and you'll just, like, blow through them. And what I would say is that they start out and it's very heavily erotica, these books. But the premise is that these people have been married, and it's sort of been like, while they respect each other, it's been like, kind of a loveless marriage for them. And she's had, you know, four kids. I think, like, she's, you know, done having children. She's done having his children. He's sort of a rake and, like, kind of debauched, and he has had mistresses. These are two people who just like, should not have probably been married, but they were, because he's a duke and he needed to get married and have babies. So she's kind of done with it. And she basically goes to him at the beginning of the first story, and she says, I'm done. Like, I have had your kids. Kids. I want to go out, and I've never had an orgasm with you. You've never given me an orgasm. I mean, she says it straight up to him.
- [41:18]
Jennifer Prokop
Wow, amazing.
- [41:19]
Sarah McLean
Like, I want to go and I want to explore the world, right? And he's like, fine, but I would like for. I. You know, he has political designs. And so he's like, I don't want you to essentially, like, ruin our reputation in the world, like, doing this. Let me help you. Be discreet. And also, I'll never touch you. Like, I would not. I'm not going to touch you, but I am. I would like to watch, like, I would like to, like, witness all of this. So it's like, the first couple are very erotic. And then it becomes, like, over the course of the stories, there are five of them, and then there's a six that is a separate couple. And over the course of the five of them, it becomes really clear that. That he's starting to, like, really like her. Like, because here's this woman. Like, he's been kind of rakish and, like, into sex and into sort of kinky stuff, and he just never assumed that his wife would be. And now she is. And he's like into it. And so over the course of the fourth and fifth books, he really like falls hard and has to win her. And these are very short. So like I wouldn't necessarily. And they, they're very much doing a different thing. These are like one handed historical reads. But I do just want to call them out because I did enjoy them and I read them all like one after another. And then I wanted to talk about though, while we're still talking. So I discovered while I was going through these that in this scenario, in the short story scenario, this might be the, the only way Friends to Lovers works for me. And in order for me to talk about that, I want to talk about one of my very favorites who is Angelina Lopez? Because her. She released, I think last year an anthology called Give it to Me, which is just a bind up of all of her short stories. And it includes a number of letters like after the Happily Ever after shorts, like, you know, of her characters. Right. However, it includes at the very, the very beginning of. This is the first, which she refers to because she also gives like a little page about a little overview of what she, you know, of why she wrote this and what it is. So the first book, the four, the first short story in the anthology is called the Phone Call. And it, she refers to it as the first short romantic short she ever wrote. And it is so emotional that on the reread this month, this week, I really was like, as a writer considering, like why it is that it works so well. So the premise is this. The heroine is a widow. She's in her mid-30s, she lost her husband, she has two daughters in elementary school. And it begins with her making a phone call to her husband's, her dead husband's best friend. And it's clear that they have been in touch over the last two years since her husband died. Like regularly, almost every day they speak by phone. He's been like, really her support system. She's wanted on a number of occasions. Like, she's needed. Like, he lives, you know, she lives in Boston. He lives somewhere far away and maybe Texas or. But you know, however, like, if she needs, you know, something done in the house, he'll. They'll FaceTime or call and he'll like walk her through how to do it. Like. And so they've really become each other's, you know, in many ways, like best friends since his friend died and her husband died. And she calls and she says, like, hey, listen, what are you up to? Next weekend. And he's like, oh, that's Valentine's Day weekend. Like, like nothing. And she's like, well, would you come and visit me? Would you come to Boston? I'd like to buy your plane ticket. And he's like, abs, like, you don't have to buy my plane ticket. Like, yes, sure, I'll come visit. What's going on? And she's like, I need you to come here because I have a thing that I need. And he's. He's like, what kind of thing could this be? And of course we know what kind of thing it is. And she's basically like, it's been two years I haven't had sex. Like, I miss sex. And I. You're basically the only person I trust to do this. And there's like. And this is by phone. So, like, the. It's. You're. Watch. You're reading the phone conversation, and he just, like, freezes up. And then she's like, oh, no. Like, this is bad. And then they have like. Like, kind of a, like, stilted conversation where he's like, okay, I. Yes, okay, I will do this. And then it skips forward, and the day before he's supposed to fly in, he sends her a text message that's basically just like, I can't. Like, I can't come. I can't do this. And she's like. Because, like, he's been in love with her all along. Right, Right. But she's also just like, I this up.
- [46:39]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. Yeah. Right.
- [46:40]
Sarah McLean
Which is the whole ball game when it comes to friends, to lovers. Like, you have to believe that, you know, the friendship is that valuable that, like, if you lose it, it's awful. And then it becomes clear that, like, you know, he's. He's it up. Like, she's it up. And, like, she's. She's so upset about it. And then he calls her, like, a week later or whatever. Like, maybe not a week later, but he calls her, and she's like a wreck because she has been trying to reach him all week to basically apologize, and he hasn't answered the phone. And there's this perfect line that Angelina writes where she's like, I've. I've called you so many times. I've memorized your outgoing voicemail message, and I've never heard it before this week because you've answered the phone every other time. Well, and then, of course, yeah, you can imagine, like, how it all kind of, like, falls out. I mean, it's literally. It's. I would Think this is barely 20 pages, the story. And it is so sexy and so romantic and it like just somehow Angelina hits every beat of like, these are two people who are destined for each other anyway. That's called the phone call. It's the first in Angelina's Give it to Me anthology.
- [48:06]
Jennifer Prokop
This week's episode of Faded Mace is brought to you by HarperCollins, publishers of When I Picture you by Sasha Lawrence.
- [48:14]
Sarah McLean
So Renee Feldman really did have her whole life together. She was getting her MFA in documentary filmmaking. She like had a big plan for a creative, expansive life as a filmmaker. But you know, she, she lost the creative spark while in the middle of her mfa. She decided to take some time off, but she is really stuck. And what's interesting is at her sister's wedding she reconnects with Lola Gray, who is a pop star who was supposed to be the songwriter of a generation, but doesn't feel like she's got the creative spark anymore either. It's been a year since Lola has her. A secret relationship that Lola had has imploded. And in that heartbreak, Lola has really lost herself because she had been expecting to like come out and live really authentically and publicly as a lesbian, but that relationship died and now she doesn't really know where she's at. But at this wedding, everything comes to a stop because when they were kids, Lola had a huge crush on the fearless lesbian Renee next door. Such a huge crush that it actually inspired her first like juggernaut album. And she finally gets a shot at Renee and she takes it and they have a one night stand that is just so hot and so unexpected and so perfect. And while Renee's willingness sort of accept that it's a one night stand, Lola's not ready to give her up. So it just so happens that she's about to have a tour documentary and they need a director. And doesn't she just have a hot documentarian to hire?
- [49:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Perfect. So if you are a fan of a sapphic rom com that is a celebrity dormy romance like no one loves that like Sarah and childhood friends to lovers, then when I picture you might be perfect for you. If it is available in print, ebook and audio and if your podcast app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Harper Collins and Sasha Lawrence for sponsoring this week's episode. I have one that's pretty sexy and it's funny cuz I think the other thing that I thought was really interesting is a lot of these were like closed Door or. Right. Like, kisses only.
- [50:39]
Sarah McLean
Yes. Because there isn't a lot of space for it.
- [50:42]
Jennifer Prokop
Sure. Exactly. Like, once you're gonna put sex on page, it's either almost like, all or nothing.
- [50:48]
Elle
Right.
- [50:49]
Sarah McLean
And.
- [50:50]
Jennifer Prokop
And I get that. I get why, like, I think we're so, like, if, in fact the sex is going to be doing work, then it's going to take up some Runway to do that. Right. And so it makes sense to me that they might, you know, essentially do less.
- [51:07]
Sarah McLean
Right.
- [51:07]
Jennifer Prokop
So anyway, in this one, though, there it is. The whole point is the sex. The book is called Hands On Learning by Maggie Elliott. And what happens is it's. And this is like the book that made me realize, like, oh, yeah, this is, like, all romance reasons. Right? So Lily shows up at her. She's like. They're in their, like, late 20s, and her best friend's brother is Derek. And she shows up at Derek's, like, their house. And Derek's kind of like, you want me to, you know, like, my sister's not here. It's not actually really clear, like, why they, like, grew up next door to each other or something. So she's known this guy her entire life, and it's just always been, like, teasing, and, you know, he's just never, you know, she's just always kind of thought he was a jerk, but she comes to him and she's like, I'm not looking for your sister. I'm looking for you. And the reason why is I'm supposed to be getting married in, like, two weeks or whatever, you know, this or a month or however far it is. But my fiance dumped me because he said I'm not good in bed.
- [52:10]
Sarah McLean
That's a. That's a favorite microtrope for me. I'm not good in bed. Help me.
- [52:15]
Jennifer Prokop
She was like, you know, but, like, the wedding has to go forward. Everything's set, everything's ready. I refuse to kind of believe this. So I need somebody to teach me to be good in bed. And you don't even like me. So you're like.
- [52:29]
Sarah McLean
With the idea that she would go back to the fiance.
- [52:31]
Jennifer Prokop
Go back to the fiance.
- [52:33]
Elle
And I was like, oh, all right.
- [52:34]
Jennifer Prokop
Interesting, right? Yeah. Because I was like, oh, that's unusual, right? Like, usually it's just like, I refuse to find a new man knowing that I'm bad at this or whatever. And the thing that I. That really kind of caught my attention is he. We switched then his point of view when she's sort of telling, you know, kind of what happened. And he and he thinks it. He thinks her determination to salvage the Jared situation would have bothered me except for the fact that she seemed determined to have a wedding, not necessarily a marriage. And so he sees that this is, like, a real opportunity for him because, of course, also he's, like, been in her all along. So she asked Derek for, like, sex lessons, basically. And then there is, like, most of the book is them, like, having a great time in bed, and it's not like, really, you know, it is. It's really, really sexy and then. But what's also interesting, though, is, like, that it sort of like, skips over things. Right. So she, you know, it's just as, like, a book that makes some really, like, interesting choices. Right. So she essentially like the way it. I mean, like, spoiler alert. Of course she's going to end up with Derek and not with Jared. But it's really interesting, like, how she comes to that realization. And I think the thing that I found myself thinking was interesting about this was, like, one of the first ones I read. And what I found myself thinking is this is like, a real interesting laboratory for romance. And what I mean by that is, like, this book, like, makes choices. It, like, skips, like, the first time they have, like, PNV sex, I think, or it, you know, he gets her off and then she doesn't reciprocate or like. Right. Like, there's all these, like, really interesting choices that get made in a short story. You can make an interesting choice without it feeling super high stakes. And I would imagine as a writer, it would be very fun to experiment in that sort of setting. Right. Like, what is it that you can put on page? What can you skip? What can. You know what? I don't know if that makes sense. And so this was a story that I really found myself thinking, like, maybe if this had been a novel, I would have been frustrated by some of these choices, but instead I could be like, oh, this is interesting. What's working, what isn't. Yep. And that was. So this was one of the first ones I read. And then it really helped me to, like, get into the mindset of you can make interesting choices when you're only working with 30 or 40 pages, as opposed to it feeling like everything has to be sort of perfect in an object level.
- [55:27]
Sarah McLean
Exactly. It's. Yeah, it's because we. We are. We're willing to forgive a lot more, I think.
- [55:34]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, right. Exactly.
- [55:36]
Sarah McLean
The other side of that is, like, you can really elide all of the, like, setup that, like, you just can't you just can't do that in, in a long form text.
- [55:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, we need it. All right.
- [55:52]
Sarah McLean
You need to be able. You're able to sort of see, say, in a short story, like, just trust me, that these two have had a past that is, you know, that leads us to this moment. So I read in the Romancing the Rake anthology.
- [56:10]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, I read this one too. Read some of these.
- [56:12]
Sarah McLean
Did you read the Ginny Moore one?
- [56:14]
Jennifer Prokop
No.
- [56:15]
Sarah McLean
Okay, so Ginny B. Moore wrote a book called. Or wrote a short story called Remedy for a Rake. And in this one, this is a perfect classic. Like, he's had a thing for her forever, right? But he's a rake and, like, he's worried about his sort of, you know, reputation if he falls hard for a kind of blue stockingy heroine. So anyway, Dominic is our rake and Lavinia is our heroine. And she has dreams of becoming a physician. And so she can't do that in the. In the uk. And so she decides that she is going to pack up her bags and go to Paris. And this all happens like, kind of before the story begins. And she's announced to the whole world that she's going to Paris to take medical lessons. And it's the last night. The. The book begins on the.
- [57:06]
Jennifer Prokop
The.
- [57:07]
Sarah McLean
Her final ball in Britain. And she is at the ball. And for every ball for, like, two years, Dominic and Lavinia have danced one dance together. And they've had like, like, you know, lovely conversations. And he's so handsome and she's so fascinating and, like, they just are so drawn to each other. But they have never danced more than that one dance because it would indicate that Dominic was like, potentially interested in setting down, settling down and, like, courting somebody. And he's too rakish for that. And Lavinia is too much of a blue stalking and basically has been like, he's the most handsome thing I've ever interacted with and I think he's great, but, like, there's just no way I ever end up with that. And so she's headed off to Paris to, like, I don't know, dissect cadavers. Although I will say this book begins with the line, do you want to see a dead body? Which made me laugh because it's like a very sort of classic line, right? And so what ends up happening, though is like, basically she's like, it's my last night in the uk. Like, this is my last chance to, like, basically see if Dominic is willing to invest a little more in me. And she Asks him at the end of their. Their dance if he will dance with her again. And he's so, like. He's rendered. Just unable to reply because he's like, too many feelings. Like, too many thoughts, right?
- [58:42]
Jennifer Prokop
Static.
- [58:43]
Sarah McLean
Static. Brain. And so she's like, yikes, if it takes you this long to reply to me. Like, I. I made a huge mistake. And she's like, off into the gardens. And then he's like, shit, I fucked up my favorite. And he's like, after her, into the gardens, except he falls off a ledge and into a rose bush and breaks his ankle.
- [59:05]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, my goodness.
- [59:06]
Sarah McLean
Chaos, right? And then he's brought, like, up into the. Into like a. You know, I think it's at her home, this story. And so he's brought to, like, a. A room upstairs because he's, like, broken. And that night she, like, gets her medical bag and she goes in to check on him and discovers that, like, there are a bunch of scratches on his bare body that the doctors didn't, you know, tend to. And then, like, he's, like, basically not wearing anything. And she's like, oh, he's so handsome.
- [59:42]
Jennifer Prokop
And.
- [59:43]
Sarah McLean
And at one point, there's this great moment, and this is another sort of moment I really love in a romance novel where at the end of a chapter, in her point of view, he's like, you know, all his. He's bare from, like, his chest is bare, his back is bare. And she's looking at, like, the muscles of his body, and she's like, she has to. He's clearly not interested in her, and she has to ignore his muscles. Like, she's doing her very best to ignore his muscles.
- [60:08]
Jennifer Prokop
And then.
- [60:09]
Sarah McLean
Then it flips to his POV in the next chapter, and the first line is, why was she ignoring his muscles?
- [60:15]
Jennifer Prokop
And it turns out that he's been.
- [60:17]
Sarah McLean
Like, flexing, flexing, try and get it her to, like, notice. And then they, you know, do it in this bed. And it's like a perfect example of what you were saying where, like, it's all in one night, in another. Like, in a historical that was 100 pages, 400 pages long. You would have to draw it out. Like, they wouldn't. This wouldn't be able to work this way, but it works perfectly this way because of the format.
- [60:42]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, in that anthology I read the Worst Possible Thing by Melissa Kendall, which was the Guardian word romance, although he's just, like two years older than her and has been scaring all the other suitors away. And that part's really funny. And then I also read Jim Harper is the Worst by Cat Sterling, which just was like a really funny title. And it's set in 1909, I think Seattle. And they're students at the University of Washington and she, they both are rowers. And then at the end, and this is really a short story, like it's like a single chapter and you know, she's kind of like has to realize that she's been like, he's the worst. But really she's been secretly in love with him all along. And he has been kind of waiting for her to figure that out. But then after, at the end, I thought, I found myself thinking like, I bet this would be one of those things where people would write to Kat Sterling and be like, that's not real. Women weren't athletes back then. And so she talked about like the archival research she did at the University of Washington and how she essentially like tripped across this information about the first women athletes who were on the crew team and, and incorporated that into her research. So yeah, that was a really fun one and that's a really long one too. That there was lots and lots of different works in that one. Romancing the Rake anthology.
- [62:10]
Sarah McLean
This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by the Blood and Ash coloring book published by Blue Box Press. And this is cool. It's part of the Jennifer Armentrout Blood and Ash series.
- [62:22]
Jennifer Prokop
Listen, I love this. As we head into holiday gift giving season, I think ideas like this are sure to please many a reader, romantasy reader friend in your life. So what this is is a coloring book that has 50 stunning original illustrations. Inspired by the New York Times bestselling Blood and Ash series, this immersive collection captures the heart pounding romance, fierce battles and unforgettable characters that have enchanted readers far and wide. So that includes things like golden crowns, the awakening of the harbinger and bringer of death and destruction. And you can just really journey through the captivating epic your way. So whether you're a devoted fan or a newcomer to the realms, this coloring book is the perfect companion for those who dare to rise from blood and Ash.
- [63:17]
Sarah McLean
I love this. And listen, this is a holiday gift if ever I've seen one. You could grab this, this coloring book and then maybe the first book in the Blood and Ash series by Jennifer Armentrout. It's great. Some colored pencils, Sarah, some colored pencils. That's a great idea. This is terrific. For people who are big Jennifer Arment Trout fans or people who are just romantasy Fans who maybe want to start a new series. Listen, I love anything that's an easy holiday pickup for a gift. And this one is it. You can get the official blood and ash coloring book right now in print, and you can do that by clicking on the chapter title if your podcasting app supports it. If not, you can find it wherever books are sold. Thanks to Jennifer Armentrout and Blue Box Press for sponsoring this week's episode. I've got one that is contemporary, a little bit of an age gap. Caught in a storm. Another way that you can sort of sell one of these, like, you know, 0 to 100 stories. Cara Dion wrote a book called or wrote a short story called While It Was Storming. You can get this for free if you sign up for Kara's newsletter. And it's a curvy heroine, very sunshiny. She's interning on this farm until she heads off at the end of the summer or whatever to work at a museum in Boston. She's in Rhode island, so I was predisposed to really enjoy this one. And the sort of head. The owner of the farm is the grumpiest grump who ever grumped. Her best friend's uncle, who is incredibly sexy, but significantly older than her and like, also her boss. And this is one of those situations where he is. Everything she does infuriates him because he just can't stop thinking about her. And then a summer storm rolls through. And you know how I love a summer storm, trapping them on this kind of like in this very sort of isolated space alone. She can't.
- [65:34]
Jennifer Prokop
The.
- [65:34]
Sarah McLean
The road is washed out. She can't get home.
- [65:36]
Jennifer Prokop
Her.
- [65:36]
Sarah McLean
Her car is stuck in the mud, and she has to sleep over at his little farmhouse. And she has had designs on sleeping over at this little farmhouse for a long time. And finally, you know, sticks her courage enough to propose that they sleep together in the same bed. Nice. And it's a great time for everyone.
- [66:07]
Jennifer Prokop
All right. I have one that is also kind of stormy, and it's a Gothic, and I really enjoyed it. It's called the Gray Mirror Cliffs by Anne Knight. And I mean, when I say gothic, I literally mean, like, gothic crumbling, you know, mansion or whatever, fortress. Sorry. Okay, so Mary is our narrator or, you know, our main character or whatever. She is traveling north to, you know, like, you know, the wilds of England where her bestie, Camilla, who, of course, she's been in love with Camilla her whole life. But, you know, it was the time and you couldn't be in love with your best friend has married and is expecting a husband. Expecting a baby. She's married and they're expecting a baby. But the letters that she is getting from Camilla are just more and more worrying. So Mary's like, well, I'm gonna go and be with her during her confinement, you know, to help her. Cause that's what friends do. And I'll get to see her again, and that will be good. But when she gets to this castle, everything is real fucking weird, right? And, like, a Gothic is so creepy, right? Everything's, like, mildewy, and there's these two creepy servants. And the husband is, like, strange. And, you know, doesn't really, you know, like, sort of seem to, like, you know, take very good care of Camilla. And, you know, Camilla's like, here's the key for your room so you can lock yourself in. In. And Mary is like, are you safe? Like, what is going on? And then, you know, they're at dinner, and, you know, the husband is like, you know, how long are you gonna stay? I'll ask the servants if it's okay. And Mary's like, what do you mean you're gonna ask the servants if it's okay? And then there's this huge boom. Like, boom. And the whole, like, castle is, like, shaking. And it turns out that. That there has been a curse on the castle for generations.
- [68:04]
Sarah McLean
I love.
- [68:05]
Jennifer Prokop
And Right. Like, oh, yeah, right. And essentially, this dumbass motherfucker that would be her husband, Camila's husband. Essentially. Like, the curse is that you can, like, the master of the castle can leave if, you know, like, there's an heir. And so, like, he has, you know, and he basically is like, yeah, like, once there's an heir, I'll be able to leave. And, you know, Camilla's like, what about me? And, you know. And so, like, Mary and Camilla and what about her?
- [68:35]
Sarah McLean
Well, she has to say, I'm not.
- [68:37]
Jennifer Prokop
Gonna spoil it, Sarah.
- [68:38]
Sarah McLean
Okay. Okay, fine.
- [68:39]
Jennifer Prokop
But basically, these creepy servants are gonna, like, make off with a baby is what she's really worried about. Right? Oh, yikes. And so, you know, like, the castle is, like, being like, you know, it's on the edge of a cliff overlooking ocean. And, you know, Mary is like, I think this whole thing is about to fall into the ocean. And so there's, like, running away in night dresses now. Camilla is very pregnant and still manages this. But it's great. Listen, what happens to the husband is great. What happens to the servants is great. And what happens to Mary and Camilla and their baby is great. So I really liked it. It's a really short but really packed a punch. It's called the Gray Mere Cliffs.
- [69:20]
Sarah McLean
I love it. So I want to talk about. There's a Jesse Mihalik who we've talked about, talked about before.
- [69:27]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh yeah, I love Jesse.
- [69:29]
Sarah McLean
I mean, she's great. And she wrote two fantasy romance novellas set in the shared world. And these are great. I mean, honestly, this is kind of my dream to like write, just write a collection of romance novellas that are all kind of interconnected or at least connected via a same world without having to do the like, God, I've written 1200 or 1600 pages in this world. Like, it really feels terrific. So each one of these has a happily ever after and they are the series. The book is called Books and Broadswords and you can get it, you know, everywhere. But so this one is, you know, Jesse writes fantasy, sometimes she writes sci fi. But these are definitely perfect for romantasy readers in the group. They are really. They have a, A very, A very, very good way of feeling like a fairy tale situation. And so one of them is about a girl who steals, has been stealing from the king and she steals like from his treasury and runs off to buy books. And she is, she's interrupted one day by a like handsome knight night and she, when he is in, he's in deep trouble. And like basically what she has like, it twists enough that if she, in order to save him and save his life, she needs to confess she's been stealing from the king. So it's this sort of like, you know, will she like. Jesse knows how to like amp up.
- [71:17]
Jennifer Prokop
A.
- [71:19]
Sarah McLean
Conflict enough that it really does feel like in this tiny little amount of text you're getting these like this like big, big sense of sacrifice. And also I really think that it's very. You'd be hard pressed to find somebody who can so beautifully do a kind of retelling of a fairy tale or I mean, this isn't a retelling of a fairy tale, although it feels like a little bit Rumpelstiltskinny, a little bit like, you know, I don't know, you know, Princess Lost in the Foresty. But the reality is that like Jesse seems to be able to like create a fairy tale of her all her own in a way that not many people do. So that is books and broadswords. And if you love fantasy, that will be a very fun one for you.
- [72:07]
Jennifer Prokop
All right, so, you know, it's funny because you said fairy tale and I was going to say, one of the things I also forgot is, I think another. Their shortcut to a short story is to really use a fairy tale because everybody already knows the plot, right? So you don't have to really waste a lot of time on that one. I enjoyed. I really enjoyed a lot, probably was Cinders and Ash by Elizabeth Boyle. And this is obviously a Cinderella retelling. And it. In what Happens is an I. Listen, I thought it was great. Like, I just had a lot of fun reading. It is Ella Cinders. It starts off with Ella Cinders. She is a. Like a seamstress at a, you know, a fashionable motif shop. And she has created a gown for a ball. But this gown and the. The deal, the Ash ball. So this is like the. You know, the. The. He's the hero. The deal is with this ball, though, is you have to have your printed invitation. It happens once a year. And this guy. It's only held when the youngest, you know, the old, you know, the eldest is, like, looking for a new bride. And so obviously this is like a real hot, hot ticket. And so Ella has created this, like, perfect gown, but it's real racy, right? And so the woman that it's for is, like, freaking out, basically. Like, you know, how could you expect my pure bread, you know, pure, beautiful daughter to be wearing such a slutty dress, essentially? And, you know, meanwhile, it's great. Their scene sort of opens with, like, Ella and her, like, friends kind of like, you know, peeking out from behind the curtains, like, watching this all go down in the main room of the shop. So what happens is, like, you know, this woman is essentially, like, you know, like, storming out. And as she storms out, she, like, runs into somebody and everything goes flying. And she accidentally drops the invitation. And Ella or her friends pick it up and tell Ella, you should wear it. Because it turns out that five years ago, during the. The first ball for this particular Viscount Ash, she wore a gown that was very similar. And her friends were like, girl, you know, that you wanted him to recognize your work. You know what I mean? Dervik, you know, that she had had this, like, magical night with him and then disappeared. So this is all the setup in kind of essentially in chapter one. And then we go back in time to five years ago and, like, sort of like, what exactly happened? And it's really pretty smart. So Ella, it turns out, had been taught, was like a. Like a maid to Pamela. And Pamela was, like, running off with somebody else and convinces Ella, like, my mom is so nearsighted, put on My dress, pretend to be me. She won't even recognize that it's not, you know, me. We look so much alike, and she can't see anything anyway. And just, like, pretend to be me that night so people won't know I'm running away to, you know, to elope. And so Ella is, like, kind of young and dumb and lets herself get talked into this because Pamela promises her, like, I know my mom's gonna fire you after she finds out, but don't worry, I'll hire you because you did me this solid. So anyway, she's at the ball and she has this, you know, dance with this handsome man, and she, you know, they totally hit it off. She does not realize that it's Lord Ash. And so then what happens is, you know, she runs into an older woman, right? Like, it's like someone she knows. Like her, you know, a friend of her parents or whatever, who is kind of like, honey, you are out of your mind. Like, you are. You know, there is no way Pamela is going to be able to hire you because she's running off with his penniless second son. You really have. This is not going to work out the way you think. Yeah. So you have your fun here at the ball, and then tomorrow morning, meet me at the docks. I need a companion, and I'm, you know, going to Portugal or whatever, and you can come with me. And so we get from Ella's point of view how she ended up having this stolen night with Lord Ash. And it's great because this older woman's like, have a nice time. You might as well. You're pretty much, you know, ruined. And meanwhile, like, they actually have sex. And Ella's like, she probably didn't mean that, but whatever. And then, you know, then at the end of the book, right, it's now the night of the like, right, We. We bounce back to the present. So I thought it was just terrific. I had such a good time reading it, you know, listen, I love an older woman in a romance who's kind of, like, might as well do have a good time. Here's how the. The real world works. And I think, like, in terms of having that be the kind of fairy godmother figure, right? I'm saving you, but not really in the way you think, right? I'm saving you from this bad situation. I'm not saving you from. For this man can. Or, like, I can't make that magic happen, but I can, like, fix this mess you've made of your life. And I just thought it was like, super, super delightful. And it really did pack, like the whole arc of the story into like a really tight. I mean, this is probably 45 pages long. I thought it was terrific, so it was great. Cinders and Ash by Elizabeth Boyle. I love that.
- [78:17]
Sarah McLean
Well, Elizabeth Boyle's been writing for a million years and she knows how to write a romance novel, so.
- [78:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, she does. I was like, oh, oh, this was. It just was so smooth. It was perfect.
- [78:27]
Sarah McLean
Okay, I want to talk about Flash Me by Laura. Lovely. So we, a million trillion years ago, sat on a panel about podcasts at rt. Rwa.
- [78:43]
Jennifer Prokop
Rwa.
- [78:44]
Sarah McLean
I can't remember. Yeah, I guess rwa. And it was us and like the wicked wallflowers, which doesn't happen anymore, and heaving bosoms, which is totally different now. And Laura, love Lovely, who did a podcast about mermaids. And we've talked about Laura before because she also wrote Pumpkin Pounder, which is a holiday favorite here at Faded Mates. But when I asked for people to tell us about. To tell me about short, short stories they'd written, she self wrecked her Splash Me, which I read because I. And I knew it would be about mermaids because of course it would be movie. I read it and I want to say this. The reason why I put it on the list is because I think there's something incredibly freeing and really lovely when you read a romance novel about two people who have, like, a particular kind of kink that is not your kink, but they really are, like, having a great time in the book. You know what I mean? Because I think, like, it does. I think romance does so much work sometimes around, like, really freeing you from. To like, reveal your fantasies and really explore them. So here's the setup. The heroine of this book has been dating a new guy for. They've been on like five dates. They've had sex. He's cute, she's into him. He's such a nice guy. And they're texting. She's away at work, and they're on a work trip and they're texting and they're having, like, kind of sexy texting time. And he says, tell me your fantasy. And she's like, well, I have, you know, tons of. She's. She sort of thinks to herself what we would all think to ourselves in this moment, which is like, oh, like, what is my. How am I supposed to answer this question? Like, how deep down the rabbit hole am I supposed to go? And. And she basically says, like, give me a some boundaries here for this fantasy question. And he says, Tell me your favorite, like, roleplay fantasy. She's like, all right, well, I guess we're gonna do it. And she says, have you ever seen the movie Splash? And then she's like, I wish that the Tom Hanks character in Splash had, like, walked in. There's an. There's a scene. Okay, everybody. Splash was a movie that came out in the 1980s, and Daryl Hannah and Tom Hanks were in it, and Daryl Hannah is a mermaid, and Tom Hanks doesn't know she's a mermaid at the very beginning. And she, like, gets into a bathtub at his. In his apartment in New York City, and he. She turns into a mermaid and she has a tail. And he knocks on the door, and she panics, and he panics her, and she's like, oh, my God, don't come in.
- [81:33]
Elle
And.
- [81:33]
Sarah McLean
And she thinks. He thinks there's something wrong, and he breaks down the door, and he discovers that, like, she's. She has, like, the tail has gone away. She has dried up enough that, like, now she's just naked, sitting on the edge of the bed and. Or at the edge of the tub. And in this, the main character of Flora's short story is like, what if she hadn't turned back into a person? And what if. If he had seen her tail? And what if they had? And instead of being like, ah, yikes, her, like, new boyfriend is like, yeah.
- [82:12]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay, yeah, let's on top.
- [82:14]
Sarah McLean
Let's do it. I'm down. And so then she goes to his, like, apartment on a date, and he's, like, set up the bathroom to be, like, the bathroom and splash. And he's water, mermaid, tail. And, like, it's so cute and also sexy, but, like, it's so cute because it's like, here are two people who are, like, exploring each other in all ways. Like, they're like, yes, they're having great sex that they're, you know, enjoying, but also like, is this my kink? It is definitely not. But, like, here are two people are just having a great time and falling in love, and I. I really enjoyed this.
- [82:54]
Jennifer Prokop
So fun. That's awesome. I love it. My favorite factoid about that movie is that's, like, where the, like, girl's name Madison comes from.
- [83:04]
Sarah McLean
It didn't exist before.
- [83:06]
Jennifer Prokop
No, it really didn't. Because I remember seeing that movie and her being, like, right there on, like, Madison Avenue in New York, and she's like, my name's going to be Madison. Because she looks up at the sign or whatever, and I just remember everyone being like, that's like a crazy name for a girl. Like what? That's a crazy name for a person. That's like a president. President's name. What? And now it's, like, so normal.
- [83:27]
Sarah McLean
And also a cat. You had a cat?
- [83:29]
Jennifer Prokop
We did have a cat. Maddie. Gosh, what a great cat. She was. Okay, anyway. Fine. I'm fine.
- [83:35]
Elle
All right.
- [83:35]
Jennifer Prokop
I have one more. Okay. I read a couple of short stories in from the A Season for Second Chances, a Hearts Through History autumn anthology. And Hearts Through History is one of the, like, rwa, you know what I mean? Like, essentially, these are historical authors. Yeah, exactly. And they. I guess they come out with one of these every year. And this one I thought was really interesting. And part of what drew me to it was because, like, this time span of these is from medieval India all the way to the 1960s USA. And so I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. And they organize them in, like, chronological order. So I read two of them. I read Whispers of Love by Jayashari Gopal, which is about the one set in India. Cause I was like, 1010 India. I want to read this one. And it's a time traveler. And so what happens is. And I was. This was great. It was like, gosh, it was really fun to read in the. So the way this starts is the main character, the time traveler traveler, her name is Paru. And she and her father are essentially part of, like, a clan that has, like, essentially, like, time traveling abilities. And it, you know, doesn't really spend a whole lot of time going into how or why they can do this. You know, it's just something that they have the ability to do. She's been at it for a while. She and her dad, you know, kind of time travel together, but she sort of is a little tired of it at the beginning. But in this particular story, they are in 1010, and they're in danger. So he basically tells her, go. Essentially, like, hide behind that tree. You know, like, we're gonna have to figure out. And so she does what her father tells her. And then, like, a warrior comes upon her. And it's kind of like giving her a hard time. Like, you know, you shouldn't be here. And, you know, the king is coming. And, you know, she's like, I'm waiting for my father. And so they have this, like, really intense sort of, you know, like, connection. But she is determined. Even though she can travel through time, she is like, you know, wants to go back to modern day. And she's studying to be a Doctor but what she does, kind of without her father really knowing is she is continually traveling back to see him because. And his name is Anna Ruth. She is like, I don't know, they're into each other and. And he knows that she is different, right? She. She uses these words like college, you know, that he's like, I don't know what this is. And so over. What happens then is, you know, kind of. She is basically determined that, like, once I finish studying to be a doctor, I can tell him the truth and, you know, maybe we can have a chance together. And at that point in time, of course, she goes back and she sees him, she thinks, with another woman and a child. And it's been so long since she's been back that she thinks that he has forgotten about her. And so then there's this really long period of time where they don't see each other. And then she hears him calling to her through time and she has to go back and find out why he needs her. And it's great. So I really like that one. Yeah, it was really fun. And then there was another one I read that had, like, big. And I can't. I. I don't remember, honestly, the title of it because there's a lot of. There's like 20 different ones in here. But it's like a Robin Hood story, right? Like, essentially, it's like King John and the taxation. And basically he has come back from the crusade and he. There's a woman that he was in love with, but he. It's called a Harvest Dance. He was. Oh, no, that's not it. I don't remember the title of it. Everybody, he is. She's essentially like, I. He was like, I'm gonna die, so I'm just gonna, like, break it up with her. Break up with her because that way she can, like, find someone else. But he comes back alive and she's like, basically like, fuck you. You know what I mean? You broke my heart. And so they plot and plan a way to kind of get rid of the tax collector, and then they fall back in love with each other. So that was really fun. So that's in a season for second chances.
- [88:45]
Sarah McLean
Nice. I love that.
- [88:46]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, it was great.
- [88:48]
Sarah McLean
I just want to shout out two other. I want to shout out out the spicy bites anthology from the Romance Writers of Australia. Every year, the Roman. Some of you may remember I was at the Romance Writers of Australia this summer. Every year, the Romance Writers of Australia put out a call for short stories from their membership, and they give them like a idea, like a all this year it's going to be about t, you know, tattoos and then everybody submits, you know, spicy short story that somehow involves tattoos. So you can see those online, you can get them, you can buy them in the United States in ebook and the money goes to help fund the Romance Writers of Australia.
- [89:36]
Jennifer Prokop
Fun.
- [89:37]
Sarah McLean
Yeah. Other than that, that's all I have.
- [89:43]
Jennifer Prokop
That is also all I have. But that was a lot. I mean I think the thing too is like we mentioned anthologies where we read one, but there's like 20 other ones you could check out.
- [89:51]
Sarah McLean
This is a good time for us to remind you that show notes exist everyone. And anytime we do an episode where we recommend a bunch of books, you can go directly to shownotesdamates.net and see all the books we recommended, which is really fun.
- [90:07]
Jennifer Prokop
I put them in order too of like when we talked about them.
- [90:11]
Sarah McLean
The name of the the short story that I wrote for the Generation Wonder YA anthology about teenage superheroes is called Fire that Lasts and it is also a romance. Anyway, I am Sarah McClain. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop and we are fated mates. You can find us every Wednesday wherever you listen to your podcasts and you can find us online@faded mates.net we are on Instagram @faded mates pod, on threads@faded miss pod and on blue sky at Fade and Mate Needs. Please help our sponsors out by downloading their books and reading them. Head over to Show Notes to see a full list of all the books that we recommended and the information on our sponsors again. And other than that, if you really love talking about romance novels, you can head over to our Patreon and join the Patreon. And everybody who joins the Patreon gets access to the Discord where, I don't know, a couple thousand people talk about romance novels all day long. You can go hang out with them. That Information is at patreon.com faded mates or fatedmates.net patreon Pick your pleasure. Other than that, we are thinking about you. We are sending our love to everybody out there in this crazy time. Take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. We love you.
- [91:34]
Jennifer Prokop
Bye.
- [91:39]
Elle
Welcome to what in the Smut podcast.
- [91:41]
Kay
Where the books are horny and so are we. I'm Elle.
- [91:44]
Elle
And I'm Kay. So in true fall fashion, this week we read Seduced by the Pumpkin Spice Latte by Evelyn Cloves. And the synopsis says Melissa is so ready for her first pumpkin spice latte of the season. But what she Discovers when she takes her first sip is that she is into PSLs on a level she never expected. Join her on her voyage of sexual discovery with a few pumpkin spice lattes, a couple hot baristas, and a whole lot of sensual fun. This was just as weird as that sounds.
- [92:18]
Kay
It's so much weirder than it sounds. Where would you put this on the smut scale?
- [92:24]
Elle
I mean, it could be argued for a level three because there are three participants at one point. At one point then begs the question of like, what constitutes sex? Because there's no.
- [92:41]
Kay
There's no penetration. And we literally have. Level one is code blue balls. Because there are orgasms, but no penetration.
- [92:49]
Elle
Oh, okay. Okay. I mean, yeah. Then I guess level one because like there.
- [92:56]
Kay
It's so briefly there are three participants.
- [93:00]
Elle
Do we split the difference and call it a two?
- [93:02]
Sarah McLean
Fine.
- [93:05]
Elle
So there was no trigger warning. There was no, as we like to say, grocery list of potential triggers on this. There was really, really. It just started the book.
- [93:19]
Kay
Oh, it. It did. Yeah.
- [93:21]
Elle
I mean, I guess food play a little bit. Three participants in sexual activities.
- [93:27]
Kay
Potentially a little bit of public.
- [93:30]
Elle
She thought she was in public.
- [93:33]
Kay
Yeah, she thought she was gonna get caught. That's about it.
- [93:36]
Elle
As for reviews, a 2 star from Amazon says you read it for the fall vibes. That's it. I don't even know. It wasn't bad, but it's not good either. It's like, what the fuck am I reading? But then you can't stop reading because it's so short, so now you have to follow through. I'm a pumpkin spice lover, so I just had to pure smut. But you will turn your head sideways. Lol. I'm not mad at it, but still, what the fuck? I mean, it's not pure smut.
- [94:04]
Kay
It's not pure smut.
- [94:06]
Elle
It's just weird.
- [94:08]
Kay
I do agree with you. Will turn your head sideways. It feels emotionally true.
- [94:13]
Elle
Yes. Four star says what? I don't even know where to start. Basic white girl gets her motor running with pumpkin spice lattes and finds two other pumpkin spice around people to have pumpkiny good time with. Wink wink. That doesn't make any sense. No, but neither did the book, so I guess it's fine.
- [94:33]
Kay
Yeah, we'll go with it. A five star on Goodreads says. I mean, I don't know what else is else. I expected this white woman legit herself. Then two others while drinking a PSL. 5 out of 5 for good vibes and laughs. But I will be talking about this in therapy. I will not My therapist cannot know what I read. One star from Goodreads says, seriously, someone sedate me. This took a twist even I wasn't prepared for. And I agree. Yeah, I wasn't ready for this.
- [95:06]
Elle
I wasn't either.
- [95:07]
Kay
And finally, I've never identified more with a review that K has pulled for one of these than this. One star from Goodreads, which just says I think I need to unlearn how.
- [95:20]
Elle
To read this one. Made me laugh out loud. So if it makes me actually laugh, it gets pulled. So as a reminder, if you want to read this, it is super fast. Fast. Probably read this in under a half hour. It was a real quick one. We are going to go through all of the spoilers if you want to stop here and read. The link is in our show notes and we will be back here waiting for you so you can hear what we have to say. And I'm sure there's going to be a lot.
- [95:50]
Kay
We have so much to say. I think there were 14 pages of this book.
- [95:54]
Elle
I think so too.
- [95:56]
Kay
And I think every single page made me so concerned. There was just so much. We start off okay.
- [96:05]
Elle
Yes. And this book was published in 2015.
- [96:10]
Sarah McLean
That makes so much sense.
- [96:12]
Elle
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Like, so we start off and Melissa, our female main character, opens her eyes and doesn't realize why she's awake yet. There was no alarm alarm this morning at 6:23am and usually she sleeps until 7:30. But then she realized what day it was. Indeed, it was the first day that the pumpkin spice lattes were available at Starbucks. Now at this point it gets earlier and earlier. I haven't had a Starbucks pumpkin spice latte yet, but I have had pumpkin spice K cups with pumpkin spice coffee creamer.
- [96:48]
Kay
Incredible.
- [96:49]
Elle
Delicious. Delicious.
- [96:50]
Kay
Of course I'm a fan, but I.
- [96:52]
Elle
Feel like in 2015, maybe I did know when they started selling them.
- [96:57]
Kay
I mean, so 20. It was a different era where it.
- [97:00]
Elle
Was a different time.
- [97:02]
Kay
It was a different time. We're talking 10 years ago. We're talking Obama's second term. Like the struggles of the world were just a little bit different. Pre Covid, the most hated thing in the world was a white woman woman who was considered basic who loved pumpkin spice lattes in 2015 is so true.
- [97:24]
Elle
Oh my God. I didn't even think about it like that. But you're right. Nobody gives a shit if you're gonna wear your ugg boots and drink your pumpkin spice latte anymore. Because the world is burning.
- [97:36]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [97:37]
Kay
So as you appreciate this masterpiece for what it is. I want you to go back in time to 2015 and think about how sardonic this story is if you. If you view it through that lens. Because literally, Melissa is the most basic bitch ever written into fiction. I think it says pumpkin spice lattes were just about her favorite thing in the world right after Taylor Swift brunch. And braids she learned about on Pinterest. And when she gets out of bed, she slips on her ugg boots, which she prefers to slippers, and she gets dressed in a pair of yoga pants, some cute sneakers, and oversized tee layered with another oversized tee, a cardigan, and three different scarves.
- [98:26]
Elle
I do kind of feel attacked in all of this for so many reasons.
- [98:33]
Sarah McLean
Why?
- [98:34]
Elle
One, congratulations to Taylor Swift on her engagement.
- [98:37]
Kay
Breaking news two, as of this recording.
- [98:41]
Elle
I loved me some Pinterest. I still do.
- [98:45]
Kay
You love Pinterest in the year of our Lord 2025?
- [98:48]
Elle
I do, yes.
- [98:49]
Kay
Incredible.
- [98:50]
Elle
Absolutely. I find a lot of stuff on.
- [98:52]
Kay
There still that is wild to me. I don't know that I know my.
- [98:56]
Elle
Pinterest login and yoga pants and ugg boots. I mean, I still wear. So there's. I felt a little bit called out in this moment in reading this, especially in 2015. That was solid. Could have been me.
- [99:11]
Kay
Yeah. The only thing you're missing is the shimmering auburn hair thrown into a messy bun because she didn't have time to try a Pinterest braid.
- [99:19]
Elle
That's true.
- [99:20]
Kay
Did all of your friends post Facebook statuses about how they wanted to get their hands on a pumpkin spice latte like Melissa's?
- [99:27]
Elle
I'm. I don't think so.
- [99:30]
Kay
Feel like even come 2015, posting Facebook statuses about your drink was a little bit cringe.
- [99:37]
Elle
Everyone had moved over to Instagram by that point.
- [99:40]
Sarah McLean
Yeah.
- [99:41]
Elle
And they were posting pictures of their drink instead of their Facebook status.
- [99:44]
Kay
Yes, this is correct. The cringe evolves.
- [99:49]
Elle
So when Melissa got to Starbucks, there was a little bit of a line, but it wasn't too bad. There was a lot of telling. Yes, she toyed with her phone as she waited to get that hot, creamy deliciousness in her mouth. There are so many times throughout this where I'm like, I mean, I get that the whole point of this is sexualizing the pumpkin spice latte, but, like, it went too far.
- [100:13]
Kay
Okay. We did skip over her laying in bed before she gets out up thinking about how she's gonna get a pumpkin spice latte. And it says she ran her hands along her body enjoying her own naked form that would soon be enjoying the Hot, delicious taste of a pumpkin spice latte.
- [100:33]
Elle
The anticipation she felt was almost like the kind she got when she saw a really attractive person. She could feel the desire pulsing through her veins.
- [100:42]
Kay
So I really assumed, and maybe we can blame it on every other book that we've read up until this point, I assumed that we were gonna get a sentient object.
- [100:52]
Elle
I was hoping it would have been better than the alternative of what we actually got.
- [100:58]
Kay
So she gets in, and she is very excited to order her psl. She reached the front of the line where a pretty girl with jet black hair and a Starbucks uniform said, good morning. What can I get? But before she could even finish, Melissa blurted out, aventi pumpkin spice latte, please. Extra whipped cream. And this tips off the Starbucks girl.
- [101:20]
Elle
Yes.
- [101:20]
Kay
That Melissa is very excited for a pumpkin spice latte. And the girl keeps winking at her.
- [101:27]
Elle
Yep.
- [101:27]
Kay
And Melissa thinks that she's flirting with her and is very direct about it, which feels not realistic. And, yes, I recognize that I am taking issue with the realism of this story.
- [101:41]
Elle
I mean, to be fair, of all of. Well, the majority of the stories that we've read.
- [101:46]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [101:46]
Elle
The realism in this is probably the closest to reality.
- [101:52]
Kay
You're so right. And I hate it.
- [101:56]
Elle
There's no magic. There's no magic. It is just a girl getting off to her pumpkin spice latte.
- [102:05]
Kay
You're right. And honestly, having read all 14 pages and now kind of going through it page by page once again, I am still unclear on if the author hates people who like pumpkin spice lattes or not.
- [102:21]
Elle
Or if she wrote this as a joke because she likes it so much that. Yes. Yes. There's not a chance that this was written seriously. No, not a chance. No, not a chance.
- [102:33]
Kay
No, no, no.
- [102:34]
Elle
The barista does say I'm pretty excited too. I think they're the sexiest drink we sell.
- [102:40]
Kay
I mean, I've met weirder baristas.
- [102:43]
Elle
That's true. But of all the sexy drinks, a pumpkin spice latte is definitely not the sexiest.
- [102:50]
Kay
No. Because it's so basic. I love a psl. I do. But, like, if you're gonna go for sexy, like a salted caramel mocha, something that's a little bit.
- [103:02]
Sarah McLean
Yeah.
- [103:03]
Elle
Salted caramel. Ooh.
- [103:08]
Kay
Something that's got a little bit of intrigue.
- [103:10]
Elle
Yes. So, yeah, Melissa says, I'm very flattered, but I'm not interested in dating anyone right now, which is strange.
- [103:18]
Kay
It's very weird.
- [103:19]
Elle
I don't think I would say that to someone that was, like, openly asking me out rather Than just winking a little bit.
- [103:27]
Kay
Yes. And the Starbucks girl just as weirdly says, oh, I wasn't trying to flirt with you. I was trying to tell you how sexy PSLs are. And she winked again. But you are super cute. Come back when you're feeling like dating someone again, and we can talk then.
- [103:43]
Elle
Weird. Weird. So she gives her her name for the order. She gets her order. There it was. Her first pumpkin spice latte of the season. Season.
- [103:55]
Kay
Well, first she was distracted by how attractive the guy who made her drink was.
- [104:00]
Elle
Yep.
- [104:00]
Kay
A cute guy with an afro handed her her drink, and she says, why are all these Starbucks employees so attractive? So we do get a some bisexual vibes.
- [104:09]
Elle
You want to know what I have to say about that?
- [104:10]
Kay
What?
- [104:11]
Elle
She's probably ovulating because you know what? I find everybody attractive when I am also.
- [104:19]
Kay
Oh, my God.
- [104:21]
Elle
She says her latte looks so perfect and beautiful, covered in luscious whipped cream, steaming hot. Just waiting for her to put her lips to the rim and drink it in.
- [104:31]
Kay
Yep. As she took the drink, she could feel the warmth travel through her entire body. Here's another 2015 reference.
- [104:38]
Elle
Yep.
- [104:39]
Kay
It was almost like she was holding hands with a really hot person or looking at a picture of Channing Tatum and slash. Or his wife Jenna do in Tatum. They're not married anymore.
- [104:49]
Elle
No, very not married. Yeah, he's already, I want to say, been married again since then and also divorced again or engaged at least.
- [105:00]
Kay
Ten years is a long time.
- [105:02]
Elle
Yeah.
- [105:03]
Jennifer Prokop
Really.
- [105:05]
Kay
She felt a throb in her body that was undeniable. Was she into this pumpkin spice latte, like, sexually? She pushed the notion out of her mind. That was silly. You couldn't have sex with a Starbucks drink. Or could you? No, you couldn't.
- [105:21]
Elle
So she looks around the Starbucks, and it's early. So we get the information that it's not very busy in there. Like, there were open tables, but somehow she gets kind of pointed in the direction of the upstairs seating area. Have you ever been in a Starbucks that's got an upstairs. Upstairs seating area?
- [105:41]
Kay
No, I've been in, like, regular indie coffee shops that. That do actually talk about basic. I think the Starbucks reserve in Manhattan does have an upstairs. Okay. That's where you can get alcohol in your Starbucks. Oh, top notch. Top notch.
- [105:59]
Elle
I need to add that to my tour of New York City. Book things that I want to do. Yeah, that's Starbucks down there.
- [106:06]
Kay
Anyway, so Melissa goes upstairs, and she still hadn't even had a taste yet, and the anticipation was killing her. She could Feel tingles all throughout her body, sending little shocks of electricity to her nipples. Her nipples. Oh my God. Melissa Brewer. You cannot be attracted to a pumpkin spice latte. That doesn't make any sense. But she could feel it. Her body wanted that pumpkin spice latte and not just to drink.
- [106:31]
Elle
This is just. This is where it starts to get weird.
- [106:34]
Kay
Like, this is where it's just.
- [106:36]
Elle
Yes, because. Yeah, no, it is definitely to be excited about something. There's so much shit in the world to be excited about. Something is fine. If you're going to be excited about a pumpkin spice latte to the point where you're making Facebook posts about it and, you know, getting nipple tingles, that's to great. But like it just started to really go off the rails here as she got upstairs, sits in her favorite chair.
- [107:08]
Kay
I mean, it can't be that memorable of a chair if she forgot that there was an upstairs. That's true of the Starbucks.
- [107:14]
Elle
And then she says out loud, because there's no one else up there, what is this feeling?
- [107:21]
Kay
And then a wave of desire flowed over her entire body and she finally put her lips to the rim of the pumpkin spice latte cup.
- [107:30]
Jennifer Prokop
This is.
- [107:30]
Kay
I just assumed that we were about to have a shape shifted. Yeah, pumpkin spice latte.
- [107:37]
Elle
It would be fantastic if that were the case. But no, that's not at all what happened. She let the whipped cream cover her mouth, licking it off sensuously as the cream spread across her lips. And then the hot liquid took over, over, almost burning her, but not quite as she took a tiny sip as a hot milky stuff ran down her throat. She let out a small moan.
- [107:57]
Jennifer Prokop
I hate it.
- [107:58]
Elle
I do too. But also, you can't drink any drink from Starbucks immediately and not burn your tongue.
- [108:06]
Kay
This is where K takes issue with the realism.
- [108:09]
Elle
Yes. Also, I wish I counted the number of times that pumpkin spice latte was written out on these pages. Contagious. Yeah, it just could have turned into like her drink. But no, it really nailed in the point that it was a pumpkin spice latte.
- [108:23]
Kay
Oh, yes. She checks again that she's alone. As she moved in for another sip, her left hand drifted down to her breast, pinching her nipple through the layers of her cardigan and two oversized teas. And she put a lid on the pumpkin spice latte so she wouldn't be too tempted to gulp it all day down at once, even though she wanted inside her so badly.
- [108:44]
Elle
I.
- [108:46]
Kay
I'm overwhelmed.
- [108:48]
Elle
I'm underwhelmed.
- [108:51]
Kay
She brought the cup down to her breasts, feeling the Warmth between them, letting the pumpkin spice aroma float up and envelop her nostrils. The pumpkin spice latte was almost moving of its own volition. Now with Melissa just acting as a vessel for the sexual pleasure. Pleasure it was bringing her. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for this to be a sentient object. It's not.
- [109:15]
Elle
No. It never comes. But she does. But she does.
- [109:24]
Kay
It's going to get infinitely worse for me because not only does the pumpkin spice latte not come to life and pull its fucking weight around here, it also is going to get everywhere.
- [109:40]
Elle
Elle's least favorite thing is when food or beverages or any other wet or sticky substance ends up on someone.
- [109:49]
Kay
It's so bad. Because that means that this is just a pumpkin spice latte.
- [109:55]
Elle
Yes. Huh?
- [109:56]
Kay
That's it. And it's getting spilled. Spilled all over her. We're gonna start small, dear audience. It's going to become egregious. Yeah, it is.
- [110:06]
Elle
Even by my standards. And that says a lot.
- [110:11]
Kay
I cannot express how much I hated this. But we start small. A small bit of PSL spilled out of the small hole in the lid. And got on Melissa's oversized tea. But she didn't mind. It felt kind of good. Almost too hot, but not quite. And creamy.
- [110:28]
Elle
That was weird.
- [110:30]
Kay
You can't feel how creamy it is through a single. A little drop on your T shirt.
- [110:34]
Sarah McLean
What do you mean?
- [110:35]
Jennifer Prokop
What do you mean?
- [110:35]
Elle
You're wearing two T shirts. Yes. And a sweater and. No. So the pumpkin spice latte made its way down her body, caressing her belly and finally reaching the waistband of her yoga pants.
- [110:49]
Kay
I can't.
- [110:50]
Elle
She's rubbing a paper cup all over her body. Yeah.
- [110:53]
Kay
Yes.
- [110:54]
Elle
No.
- [110:54]
Kay
How is this sensual?
- [110:56]
Elle
Right.
- [110:56]
Kay
It even gets called a cardboard cup.
- [110:59]
Elle
Yes. I feel like I would be more on board with this if it was a mug.
- [111:04]
Kay
Yeah. No, I think you're fucking right. But Starbucks doesn't do that.
- [111:11]
Elle
And so she thinks to herself, was she really going to do this? Was she going to have sex with a pumpkin spice latte in a Starbucks? No. No, you're not.
- [111:19]
Jennifer Prokop
Not.
- [111:19]
Elle
You're gonna touch yourself while you're holding a coffee.
- [111:23]
Kay
That is not the same thing. I'm sorry. That's still masturbation.
- [111:26]
Elle
Yes.
- [111:27]
Kay
No, I'm not sorry. Face the cold, hard truth.
- [111:33]
Elle
So her hand moves under the waistband of her yoga pants to her wet, waiting, ready for her fingers warmed by the pumpkin spice latte, to stroke gently. The PSL remained on the outside of her yoga pants, warming her pussy through the cardboard cup, sending the scent of Fall through the entire room.
- [111:51]
Kay
Like, I can't.
- [111:52]
Elle
I mean, the warmth of that. Okay, like, I guess, sure, all right. But the rest of it. No.
- [111:58]
Kay
She strokes herself as the pumpkin spice latte moved up and down her body, this time splashing a little bit of itself on every part of her.
- [112:07]
Elle
I. It's not splashing itself.
- [112:09]
Kay
It's not.
- [112:10]
Sarah McLean
Is she.
- [112:11]
Elle
She is spilling it all over herself just short of pouring it on herself. Mm.
- [112:16]
Kay
She gets herself there. She has one of the best orgasms she's ever experienced. She let out a cry. She couldn't help it. As her body bucked and writhed in the purple armchair. When it was over, she looked at the cup in her hand.
- [112:31]
Elle
Also, she came as she took the final sip of the pumpkin spice latte. It's almost like the latte was giving her permission to come.
- [112:44]
Kay
Oh, my God.
- [112:47]
Elle
See, I just made it better.
- [112:50]
Kay
I disagree. When it was over, she looked at the cup in her hand. She'd crushed it completely, used it up. But now the pumpkin spice latte was inside her, a part of her now. And this is where it gets weirder.
- [113:08]
Elle
Yep. This is that twist that nobody was anticipating. So she's like, oh, no, Somebody could have walked in and seen me do this. And then she realizes that in fact, two people did come in to the room and see her do this, and it was the goth girl and the afro man. The baristas from downstairs.
- [113:29]
Kay
Yes. And she tries to explain herself, but the pretty goth girl walked over. They're both holding.
- [113:36]
Elle
They. Both of the baristas are double fisting.
- [113:40]
Kay
Are double fisting pumpkin spice lattes.
- [113:43]
Sarah McLean
Yes.
- [113:44]
Kay
There's something horrific about the imagery.
- [113:46]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't.
- [113:47]
Kay
I don't know. So the pretty goth girl walked over to Melissa, set one of her PSLs down on the little table next, next to the purple chair, and stroked Melissa's hair gently. Don't worry, she said. We understand.
- [114:00]
Elle
And she just accepts this way too easily.
- [114:03]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [114:04]
Kay
Also, I hated this line. The guy loped over as well and stood on Melissa's other side. That he ran.
- [114:13]
Sarah McLean
He.
- [114:14]
Kay
He ran with long strides in my head.
- [114:18]
Elle
Loped to me is like, do. That's what I'm picturing is like.
- [114:26]
Kay
No, that's also. That's also bad. Look is like what you use for a wolf, like, to lope is like a. A long legged. Let me look this up maybe. I don't know.
- [114:37]
Jennifer Prokop
No.
- [114:38]
Kay
Run or move with a long, bounding stride. That's insane behavior.
- [114:43]
Elle
And she's not concerned with. With the man with afro sprinting at her. Also, he gets a name. His name is Michael, I believe.
- [114:56]
Kay
We don't get that for another couple of pages, and we're never gonna get.
- [115:01]
Elle
No goth girl does not get a name. So she says to them, you're not gonna kick me out for having sex with a pumpkin spice latte in your Starbucks.
- [115:10]
Kay
Stop calling it having sex with pumpkin spice latte. You didn't. That's stolen valor.
- [115:15]
Elle
It's like so many women are having sex with a glass of wine after a hot day if we're gonna call it that.
- [115:26]
Kay
Oh, my God, you're so right. You're so right. So Melissa had never been so relieved. The goth girl smiled. She had a stunning smile ringed by a beautiful shade of eggplant lipstick. Melissa couldn't take her eyes off her mouth until her eyes traveled down and realized that the goth girl also had a rockin pair of breasts.
- [115:46]
Elle
This was very much brought me back to double stuffed, where it's like, was. Was this written by a man?
- [115:53]
Sarah McLean
Right.
- [115:55]
Elle
Because Rockin pair of breasts.
- [115:59]
Kay
Rockin with an apostrophe emphasis, not my own. Yeah, yeah. It felt very out of place.
- [116:06]
Elle
So the guy with the afro is stroking her face with the PSL on her right side. She turned to look at him as he moved the cup down her face, over her neck, and down to her breasts.
- [116:19]
Kay
The goth girl says, we're like you, Melissa, who is confused how they know her name. And then the goth girl laughs at her.
- [116:28]
Elle
Give your name to get a start, but bucks order. Yeah.
- [116:32]
Kay
So then she kisses the goth girl.
- [116:36]
Elle
So I did like this particular sentence a little bit. I liked the imagery. Melissa turned her face and kissed the goth girl right on the mouth, worrying briefly that she'd spoil the beautiful eggplant lipstick. But when her lips hit the goth girl's soft mouth, all her worries dissolved like sugar in a hot cup of coffee. That was nice. Little bright spot.
- [116:58]
Kay
Yeah, the worry about spoiling the lipstick. I think that's funny. What I don't think is funny is that she felt a small splash as the guy with the afro poured a tiny bit of the hot liquid onto her chest. While she's kissing the girl.
- [117:16]
Elle
Yes.
- [117:16]
Kay
And that is intentional, by the way, because it's gonna get worse.
- [117:24]
Elle
So then, unlike Elle, Melissa really likes that. She's just had this poured on her. So then she starts to kiss the guy with the afro again. We don't ever. Oh, we do get a name for him, but he still. We still just have guy with the afro and goth girl. And now the goth Girl moves one of her pumpkin spice lattes down between Melissa's legs, and she pours a little.
- [117:48]
Kay
Bit of the pumpkin spice latte.
- [117:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay.
- [117:51]
Kay
Onto Melissa's yoga pants.
- [117:54]
Elle
And Melissa cried out in ecstasy.
- [117:57]
Kay
I cried out in anguish.
- [118:02]
Elle
So then she strips down from. She keeps her pants on, but takes off her cardigan, two oversized tees, and her scarves.
- [118:13]
Kay
Yep.
- [118:14]
Elle
The goth girl takes a sip of one of her pumpkin spice latte, is swishing it around in her mouth before diving for Melissa's nipple. This I didn't hate.
- [118:22]
Kay
Too sticky. At this point, I have a reputation to uphold. This part was fine. I mean, I like nipple play. So, like, I'm. I'm okay with it.
- [118:33]
Elle
Well, and the temperature change. The temperature piece of it is like, I guess this is all fine. This is fine. Yeah. So then the guy with the afro slips his hand in her pants. But unlike her own hands, his hands are large and strong, and his finger is long and flexible. And when he touched her, it was as incredible as sipping a pumpkin spice latte for the very first time.
- [118:59]
Kay
Insane.
- [119:00]
Elle
He takes a sip of his coffee and kisses her. She likes that. The combination of the pumpkin spice on his tongue and the way his fingers are working, working.
- [119:08]
Kay
That's all fine.
- [119:10]
Sarah McLean
Yep.
- [119:10]
Elle
Brings her to climax. Once more, she whispers, I'm coming.
- [119:15]
Kay
I hated that. But it's gonna get. It's about to get worse. Both the goth girl and the guy with the afro emptied their entire pumpkin spice lattes onto Melissa's writhing body. As the hot liquid splashed on her naked torch torso, the guy with the afro worked her like no one ever had. And Melissa felt herself come with the force of a bolt of lightning. Jail. Jail for a thousand years.
- [119:45]
Elle
There was a lawsuit against McDonald's on hot coffee being poured on infamous.
- [119:52]
Kay
The infamous hot coffee lawsuit.
- [119:55]
Elle
She got no warning. The beverage inside may be hot.
- [120:01]
Kay
It does feel like grounds for legal.
- [120:04]
Elle
Action, if not for Melissa, then for us for having to read it.
- [120:12]
Kay
I am the damaged party.
- [120:14]
Sarah McLean
Okay.
- [120:15]
Kay
The goth girl brought her second pumpkin spice latte to Melissa's lips, saying, now take a sip. It'll be the most incredible sip of pumpkin spice latte you've ever tasted.
- [120:25]
Elle
And that sip makes Melissa come again, almost as hard as the first time.
- [120:30]
Kay
Oh, my God.
- [120:31]
Elle
Kind of jealous.
- [120:33]
Kay
No. And listeners, do you want to guess before we tell you what these people call themselves? Go ahead, take a moment. Okay. There are a certain few people who we call pumpkin spice sexuals. It's very rare.
- [120:51]
Elle
Rare.
- [120:51]
Kay
But Michael and I. She nodded at the guy with the afro Are two of them. And we're very good at spotting our kind. I hate this. I hate this so much.
- [121:04]
Elle
I agree. I also hate this. And she says, when you came in this morning, we knew right away you were one of us, but that you needed to discover it for yourself. Because could you imagine if someone came up to you and said, excuse me, me, I think you're a pumpkin spice sexual.
- [121:19]
Kay
I think I would apply for a restraining order then and there.
- [121:24]
Elle
I would ask questions first.
- [121:26]
Kay
I wouldn't.
- [121:26]
Elle
What do you mean? Nope.
- [121:28]
Kay
I recognize crazy when I see it.
- [121:31]
Elle
It's all that New York time.
- [121:35]
Sarah McLean
Yeah. Yeah.
- [121:36]
Kay
I would treat it like the New York subway. You keep your eyes down and you keep moving.
- [121:41]
Elle
So the goth girl says they let her upstairs so that she could discover this on her own.
- [121:47]
Kay
Indeed.
- [121:47]
Elle
And made sure no one came up here so you'd have enough time to figure it out. And then they say that they locked the door when they came up so that nobody else would disturb them. I question who is making coffees downstairs.
- [122:00]
Kay
Oh, I think they might have locked the store.
- [122:03]
Elle
Oh.
- [122:04]
Kay
Because otherwise. No, they must have locked the store.
- [122:07]
Elle
Although, I mean, I feel like my Starbucks is not very big and there's always like, six or seven people working. So perhaps they were like, we're going to go on our break upstairs. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Don't unlock the door.
- [122:20]
Kay
How big is this Starbucks?
- [122:21]
Elle
It's got two floors.
- [122:23]
Kay
Surely they heard her screaming up here. Oh, maybe that's why she whispered that she was coming.
- [122:29]
Elle
Perhaps. But she screamed the first time, didn't she?
- [122:32]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [122:33]
Kay
Yes, she did.
- [122:33]
Elle
Maybe that's how they. That was. Was their cue to go upstairs. She figured it out, so now it's our turn.
- [122:39]
Kay
Oh, my God. Michael says it takes a little getting used to, but we're happy to help you explore your new sexuality. Drawing a finger down. Melissa's still naked, still wet torso.
- [122:52]
Elle
Calling it a sexuality feels disingenuous to the.
- [122:57]
Kay
It feels homophobic.
- [123:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [123:02]
Elle
Yeah. And they're like, she's trying to bring in different genders to make it seem as though or to give us the indication that Melissa is bisexual. Yeah. But also, I guess, more than bisexual.
- [123:20]
Kay
But, like, she's pumpkin spice sexual. She doesn't care about gender, just flavor profile.
- [123:29]
Elle
Also, and this is a serious question, does that fall under the umbrella of, like, pansexual, or does that only apply to people?
- [123:36]
Kay
You know what? If you. If you'd asked me 24 hours ago, I would have been like, obviously, pansexual is limited to people But I don't know, listeners sound off in the comments.
- [123:49]
Elle
Yes. Like, we understand that this is a very silly book and that. Yeah, you're right, it does sound a little bit questionable that they're referring to it as a sexuality. But maybe not. Maybe we are not informed about it.
- [124:03]
Kay
Maybe we're just ignorant.
- [124:04]
Elle
Which it wouldn't be the first time.
- [124:07]
Jennifer Prokop
No.
- [124:07]
Kay
And it will most certainly not be the last time. So Reddit and Wikipedia both are saying pansexual is for people.
- [124:19]
Elle
Okay. Is there a sexuality toward inanimate objects?
- [124:23]
Kay
I'm gonna have to ruin my Reddit.
- [124:25]
Elle
Algorithm for this, I think so there is a sexual orientation and romantic attraction called objectum sexuality, also known as objectophilia.
- [124:36]
Kay
That seems more applicable here.
- [124:39]
Elle
We've spiraled. We have.
- [124:42]
Kay
We have spirals. So this story ties itself up right here with Melissa still naked and still wet in the upstairs of this Starbucks. And Melissa says, same time tomorrow. And the goth girl who still does not have a name says, tomorrow. I was thinking I could go make us another batch right now. And Melissa smiles and says, that sounds great. Maybe we can try six pumpkin spice lattes this time.
- [125:10]
Elle
So. So this is where we end. That being said, what would you rate this one?
- [125:14]
Kay
This is a one star for me.
- [125:16]
Elle
Is Corndaddy less weird to you now?
- [125:20]
Kay
How dare you attack me in this fashion.
- [125:22]
Elle
Yeah.
- [125:22]
Kay
Yes, Corndaddy's less weird. I'd rather the object came to life. This was weird and gross and full of 2015 references that didn't age well. I didn't like it. What did you rate it?
- [125:41]
Elle
Yeah, this is a one for me. I mean, I am good with weird. This was too weird for me. It wasn't like there were some parts of it that I was like, okay, that's all right, I guess. Yeah. But for the most part, it just. It was too weird for me. It had its moments.
- [126:00]
Kay
I feel like it had no clear identity where it was. Like it was. Wasn't funny enough and it wasn't sexy enough.
- [126:08]
Elle
Yes. It was just kind of weird.
- [126:10]
Kay
It was just weird. It felt ironic in like a mean spirited kind of way. Yeah, it just didn't work for me. But it certainly. I don't know, I'll never look at a pumpkin spice latte the same way again.
- [126:24]
Elle
So my casting.
- [126:26]
Kay
Oh my God, I'm so excited.
- [126:28]
Elle
I mean, give. Given the current state of things, could potentially be also considered a little mean spirited.
- [126:38]
Kay
I know exactly where this is going. Go on, tell the listeners who you cast as Melissa.
- [126:46]
Elle
So for Melissa, especially, given that time frame of the basic bitch in which Melissa was written. I went with Blake Lively.
- [126:59]
Kay
What a choice. It would have been a choice in 2015, and by God, is it a choice in 2025.
- [127:08]
Elle
So I just, I could picture her going to a secluded Starbucks and or secluded area of Starbucks and having her way with the pumpkin spice latte. And for the goth girl, this was entirely accidental.
- [127:22]
Sarah McLean
Okay.
- [127:23]
Elle
But I cast Taylor Momsen, who was on the same cast of Gossip Girl with Blake Lively, and it was completely an accident just because of her whole aesthetic with the fact that she was Cindy Lou who and now is this goth girl is just wild. So that was completely accidental that we had two of the cast members from Gossip Girl in this casting, but also kind of goes along with their Gossip Girl characters.
- [127:52]
Kay
I think that's probably correct.
- [127:55]
Elle
And then for Afro Guy, who we later found out was Michael Corbin Blue from High School Musical fame, another good.
- [128:05]
Kay
2015 pick for sure.
- [128:07]
Elle
Oh man, that man has beautiful hair. I think he cut it recently. Like I think his more recent pictures. He's got much shorter hair, but that is devastating. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous hair that he had back in the day.
- [128:19]
Kay
What a ride this has been.
- [128:22]
Elle
It certainly has.
- [128:24]
Kay
Well, what are we subjecting ourselves to next week?
- [128:28]
Elle
So next week we are going to read a monster romance called Little Slice of Hell by Cleo Evans. This is part of a 14 book novella series that are all standalone but interconnected. And I'm excited for this one actually.
- [128:49]
Kay
Can't wait.
- [128:50]
Elle
Have you read anything else since we talked last? No.
- [128:54]
Kay
Still making my way through inadequate equilibria this moment.
- [129:00]
Elle
Yes. Again, if you've made it this far, we appreciate you, especially after today.
- [129:08]
Kay
Thanks for for coming along with us on this ride.
- [129:11]
Elle
Don't forget to like follow, subscribe. We had a lot to talk about today, so please comment on any of our social media posts or podcasts. Medium, wherever you listen, tell your friends. And we are two weeks out from the Smut Lovers Conference. Well, by the time this is half out from the Smut Lovers Conference. Yeah, we will be in Orlando at the Smut Lovers Conference. If you're gonna be there, come stop by and say hello. We're excited to meet people and with.
- [129:46]
Kay
That, we're at our wit's end.
- [129:48]
Elle
We'll see you next time.