← Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
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- [00:00]
A
Well, today's gonna be a goofy, fun one.
- [00:03]
B
You know, we deserve nice things. As I like to say, we're having a good week. We are.
- [00:09]
A
Everybody, listen. Faded states did the job.
- [00:12]
B
We alone.
- [00:14]
A
Alone. It was just us against the world, and here we are. No, listen, it's Wednesday the 5th, and yesterday was election day, and as you can imagine, the text threads were bopping and we did very well. We're feeling very good. Sea to shining sea. We have done the job that we should have done last year, but we'll just let that go. Let that go. And all I just want to say is any person who helped us by giving to the fated states giving circle with the stage project this year. I know we were pushing it. I know a lot of you were like, oh, do we have to have to listen to another blather about this? A lot, A lot. A lot of you gave money. We hit our $10,000 goal, and that $10,000 went directly into the pocket of candidates in Virginia who were door knocking and phone banking and getting out the vote. And we flipped. As of today, 14 House delegate seats.
- [01:20]
B
Yeah, those numbers were wild, right?
- [01:23]
A
We ex. We were hoping for three, and we got 14.
- [01:29]
B
Yeah.
- [01:30]
A
So, wow.
- [01:33]
B
And you know what?
- [01:33]
A
It was way to go, Virginia, but.
- [01:35]
B
Way to go everywhere. Mississippi, I mean, Mississippi has been locked in and gerrymandered into, like, for what, almost 15 years, and they finally broke that super majority.
- [01:49]
A
Amazing.
- [01:49]
B
You know, California school board races around the country.
- [01:53]
A
I mean, incredible.
- [01:54]
B
I saw a really funny quote that it was like. I think it was like, Heather Cox, maybe It was somebody. I don't think I could find it really fast, but it was basically like if they could be voted out and somebody had, it was like the local dog walkers union. You know what I mean? The power in that is like, it's one thing to hope that we're not alone, that there's more of us than there are of them, but it's pretty fucking great to see it in action.
- [02:20]
A
Yeah, people turned it out. It was great. I want to shout out my own district here in New York City, which is. Was. Is a, like, deeply purple district. Often read our.
- [02:33]
B
We have.
- [02:34]
A
Nicole Malliotakis is our. Is our House rep, but the Democrat beat the Republican for city council to the tune of 18 points. So, like, listen, New York did the job. Everybody sort of turned out. Places that are blue went bluer. Places that are purple went blue. Places that are red when purple. And listen, excellent work, everybody. We're just so happy. Stay tuned. Faded States is not ending it never does, it never will. And next year, remember, we've got a good a big midterm, so we'll be back to the phones but also raising money with the states project because now we know that that money actually changes the game on, on the ground. There are some big states coming into play house and at the state level next year. So stay tuned for more of that. Although if you're giving circle donor, you can continue to just give and that money will just like quietly accrue in an account at the state's project and we, we will direct it to the state that they think we can be most helpful with. So if you just feel like being once a month just popping $10 into that account, you are able to do that and that you are welcome, you are welcome to join us right now for early 2026.
- [03:57]
B
We'll also be talking about some potential possibility to do some phone banking in Iowa even this year for Chloe Angel's husband who is up in gonna run for senate in Iowa. And so there's lots of like, you know, we've been talking about other things to do now that these midterm or whatever off year elections are, are done. So, you know, we're always cooking up a way to be a community together and a community of the larger world. So we love you and you're awesome.
- [04:33]
A
We are thrilled and continue to be really proud that you all trust us to hang out with you and, and you're still here listening to us but blather on about democracy. Also, this is your regular scheduled reminder that if you would like to run for school board, you should run for school board. We need smart, thoughtful people who care about books and keeping reading free and keeping books on shelves in schools. You can learn more about your local school board races if you sign up at Run for something, which is, I think the website is runforwhat.org but we'll put it in show notes. So run for school board, everybody. If you do, we'll give you $1,000 to seed your campaign. Look at us, we're trying.
- [05:29]
B
We're trying, everybody.
- [05:30]
A
Look at us. Anyway, welcome everyone to Fated mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.
- [05:37]
B
I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And tell them what they've won this week, Sarah.
- [05:42]
A
Yeah, well, listen, it was getting stressful here. It was getting stressful, stressful there. Jen's had a cold. Like we're just sort of, we're, we're doing a lot of reading in the Lead up to the end of the year. As you all know, the end of the year episodes, we don't really. We don't really plan this, right, Jen? The end of the year, every year. How.
- [06:01]
B
How. How am I right now?
- [06:03]
A
Like, oh, listen. And so what ends up happening is at the end of the year, we end up reading a bunch of books because we do a debut romance episode, and we do a holiday romance episode, and we don't. We do our best. The year year episodes. So we do a lot of rereading as well. And we know that you guys love all those episodes, and we would never stop doing them, but it does start to get stressful. So. So we were talking about, like, well, what can we do that would be just, like, fun. And, you know, we talk about this a lot as we're doing episodes over the course of the year. We talk about microtropes that we really love. And so Eric said to me today, when I told him what the topic was that we were recording, he was like, I wish there was a better word than microtrope. It's such a, like, kind of wonky, boring.
- [06:45]
B
Oh, yeah, right.
- [06:47]
A
And I totally agree. But. So maybe we'll come up with that over the course of this episode, too. But the reality is, is that we often, you'll hear us describing a book or one of us describing the book for the other, and. And one of us will say, oh, that's one of my favorite microtropes. Like, I love it when, you know, they, I don't know, buy their girlfriend's silk sheets. That's not one of mine, that. I just made that up. But point is that. And then you sort of think to yourself, like, oh, I really do love that. Like, what. What is the thing about that? Why do I love that so much? And, like, where did I. What book did I read that in? And so we decided that what we do today, and if it's successful, we'll do it sort of a couple times a year, maybe we'll do a microtrope episode where we talk about things that we really love. Microtropes. Little things that happen in romance novels that give us a lot of joy. And then we'll recommend a book or two that does it. And in fact, tonight we were just saying before we started recording, like, maybe we'll introduce the microtrope and then try to, like, brainstorm more than the one that we have come up with.
- [07:52]
B
Yeah, I mean, this is, I think, the problem. I mean, the good problem is, like, the 100 million romance books in my brain and then like trying to extract like such a specific piece of information. And I was thinking, I think that's why the joy of the microtrope is like, you can't go searching for it. You have to. It's all. It's the joy of discoverability in like. Right. So you just like come across it and you're like, oh, I love this.
- [08:26]
A
My favorite.
- [08:27]
B
Yeah, it's my favorite. And I think that that's part of the joy of it. I also think, you know, we have the fated inmates collections, which we haven't talked about in a while. And I think some of those are very like microtrope driven. You know, it's a secret tattoo or it's spectacles.
- [08:45]
A
One of my favorites. Yeah.
- [08:48]
B
Before we talk about like specifics or whatever, I was thinking, I mean, so I don't like, how did you. I want to talk about how you tackled this.
- [08:55]
A
Oh yeah.
- [08:56]
B
And then I want to talk about like, do you find any, anything interesting in your list or similarities or anything like that? And then I don't know, like, just make it happen.
- [09:07]
A
I also want to talk about microtropes in, in writing. I don't usually talk, as you all know. I don't love to talk about my books, but I. I do. Microtropes are one of these things that I have thought about a lot. Like, this is sort of a new concept in romance. Like, I feel like we have only na recently named this thing.
- [09:28]
B
Like for me, I think it's because we have so over relied now on tropes to describe the plot that somehow talking about microtropes is instead talking about like the reading joy in a way that tropes really aren't anymore. But I think used to be.
- [09:45]
A
That's a good point. When I started, you could say, like, it's. There's only one bed and people would like flip their lid on and be.
- [09:51]
B
Like, oh my God. Yeah, exactly. Right.
- [09:53]
A
But the reality is that now there's only one bed is in every freaking marketing, you know, Instagram post. And so it doesn't, it doesn't hit the same. Right. You need, you need a. You need a, you know, a stronger drug.
- [10:10]
B
Yeah, right, exactly. Or one that maybe can't quite be, I don't know, co opted the same way. I mean, you know, we say all the time that tropes aren't plot, but golly, golly Sarah, I wish people believed us.
- [10:24]
A
Yeah, listen, tropes aren't plot and microtropes aren't plot either. Microtropes are even Less plot. They're like. They're the wallpaper in the room.
- [10:34]
B
Yeah. I mean, it's like essentially like you put a tchotchke on the fucking table or whatever.
- [10:39]
A
Yeah. It's like you walk by and somebody's watching a TV show and you're like, oh, I love this show. You, like, sit and watch it for a little while.
- [10:47]
B
It can't be co opted. It feels they've at least not yet. They feel really pure in some sort of way. I also think they are like fingerprints to a specific reader.
- [10:57]
A
Yeah, right.
- [10:58]
B
Like what you like and what you don't.
- [11:00]
A
This gets into what I wanted to talk about. So I have spoken. We have talked a fair amount, I feel. But like, now that I'm about. I'm. I'm starting this sentence and I'm thinking. I don't know, that we have. Actually we talk a lot about like, ID in romance and how like the joy of romance in a lot of ways, like, the. One of the challenges for Roman in Romance, I think right now is that we're sort of moving when we. When romance moved toward the center in terms of Rome, of. In terms of like publishing and people started reading romance publicly and like, thinking about romance as like unacceptable genre. And of course all of this is with like big air quotes, everybody. But you know what I mean? Like, starting to really think of romance as like a genre people read. Right. Like throw a stone and hit a person who's read Emily Henry or Abby Jimenez or, you know, Kennedy Ryan. Like, people are reading these books. And so I think that like, as romance kind of moved toward the middle, we have lost in a lot. Well, the instinct from writers. I don't think that this is intentional, but I think writers are sort of instinctively choosing to write also sort of more books that have like a more broad appeal. Right. And I think this is. I maybe talked a little bit about this because I think this is a little bit where we've started losing historical. Like there are sort of things that are happening that seem to be sort of flat or sort of moving the whole genre into the middle instead of just accepting that, like, listen, the middle also reads Ali Hazelwood and they'll come to us. Like, you know, like, we don't have to move there, but the instinct as a writer is often like, oh, I wanna. I want to write to like, the broadest audience possible. And that means in a lot of ways kind of like cleaning or like, like, like scrubbing off all the, like, little bits that kind of sometimes make it romance. Right. Or make it like the kind of romances that we loved when we were, you know, the gorilla twins, like.
- [13:14]
B
Yeah, right.
- [13:15]
A
You know, Judith McNaught, you know, where he has to shoot the horse kind of thing, right. Like so a very particular kind of romance, right? So as part of this, like, I think that the joy that you and I get from romance is that kind of, there's something sort of primitive in the way that like romance kind of attracts your reptilian brain, right? And so like when you're watching, this is why rom coms don't hit for me. Not the books, the movies don't hit for me the same way a romance novel does. Because like, there's something very palatable about a rom com and there's something logical and like cerebral about a rom com that there isn't about a romance. Like, romance is about like hitting that like primordial spot in your brain, right? And like it act, it fires like a particular kind of like really virile, like vital, you know, interior neuron and then boom, you're in, you know.
- [14:15]
B
Derek Craven this week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Lily Reilly, author of Phoenix's Last Heist.
- [14:25]
A
So Lyra Phoenix, our heroine, is a criminal. She has been stealing from planets all over the galaxy and she is so close to freedom, she can taste it. She's just got one last artifact to steal, one last heist in which she's going to have to visit the planet Zelothian and steal a priceless artifact there. Unfortunately, while she's down there, a self righteous and annoyingly sexy Ranger catches her red handed and everything falls apart because he could turn her in, but instead he's decided he's going to take her captive and use her and all of her knowledge to capture all of the other thieves who are raiding his planet. This puts Lyra's back against the wall in exactly the way that you like a heroine's back against the wall, Jen. But she is not without her own weapon and that is an unlucky and very lucky for us quirk where her stress. And you can imagine there's a lot of stress in a force proximity on a sure, you know, spaceship with a guy who wants to throw you into space jail. Her stress triggers uncontrollable lust in others.
- [15:55]
B
Amazing. Just, everybody just stop right now. Let me click.
- [15:59]
A
I mean, and judging by the heat in Orion's eyes, it's already working. And she warns him not to trust it, but I think these two are gonna do a lot of stuff. In the tiny little spaceship. And I'm gonna enjoy reading about it.
- [16:14]
B
So if you would like to read this sci fi adventure romance that has enemies to lover, forced proximity in space and knife to thr flirting, then Phoenix's Last heist is definitely for you. It is available in print and e and with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcast app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Lily Riley for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [16:45]
A
Jennifer Lynn Barnes, who is a PhD and a professor at and I never know if it's Oklahoma State or University of Oklahoma, but one of them, and I will put it in show notes, is a primatologist. And one of the things that. And so she has studied like chimpanzees in like, you know, obscure kind of like remote places. I should have talked about her on talked about it on Gorilla Twins. Although I will say that did you notice the discord? Sort of made sure to let us know that gorillas are not monkeys and everybody, gorillas are apes. And wait, and also apparently Jane Goodall did not work with gorillas. So what's the name of that thing where it's like, you think that the logo of Starbucks had a, you know, narwhal on it, but it was actually a mermaid or whatever? The sort of like, communal belief, you.
- [17:38]
B
Know what I'm talking about?
- [17:39]
A
What am I talking about? Fuck. A Mandela effect.
- [17:43]
B
I'm sorry, I don't ever really talk about, like, my students on this podcast, but today we're talking about Nelson Mandela at school because we read the Trevor Noah book and a kid was like, is the Mandela Effect named after Nelson Mandela? And I was like, I don't think so, but I will find out. And then for have you bring it up, I was like, I don't know, Mike. Just feels like my context collapsed.
- [18:07]
A
Oh, oh.
- [18:09]
B
It can't possibly be that it's that Nelson Mandela, can it? But I mean, I just looked at this kid like, what.
- [18:19]
A
Mandela effect False. Yes, it is. The phenomenon was dubbed the Mandela Effect. Every will somebody out there is going to have to remember where I was at the beginning of all this. But here we go.
- [18:31]
B
It's not going to be me.
- [18:32]
A
It is. It won't be you. The phenomenon was dubbed the Mandela effect by paranormal researcher Fiona Broom, who reported having vivid and detailed memories of news coverage of South African anti apartheid leader Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980s. Broom reported that hundreds of other people had written about having the same memory of his death while he was still alive. And she speculated that the phenomenon was evidence of parallel realities. The Mandela effect. Huh.
- [19:01]
B
Okay, well, I really was not expecting that. I thought you'd find out that it was like, you know, researcher Adam Mandela of Newton, Iowa.
- [19:10]
A
You know, there is like, and it is Fruit of the Loom, the logo of the clothing brand Fruit of the Loom. Like, generally we all sort of collectively agree that it has a cornucopia on it. It does not Berenstein bears. Berenstein is not spelled with spelled the way that we all sort of think it is. Mr. Monopoly does not wear a monocle. I mean like all these sort of really interesting things. Anyway, point.
- [19:39]
B
Everybody pause now and go Google that shit. I don't know.
- [19:41]
A
Yeah, doesn't sound right. Right? Doesn't sound right. Spell Berenstein for Berenstein Bears.
- [19:46]
B
No.
- [19:47]
A
Okay, fine, Don't.
- [19:49]
B
I can't spell right now.
- [19:50]
A
Play my stupid game.
- [19:53]
B
It's like the pressure, the pressure of a name. The pressure of a Berenstain name. Well, it's gotta be, it's gotta be bear, right? B A R E N S T.
- [20:06]
A
E I M. Okay, well, it's not fair. It's B E R E N S T A I N. And it's the A I N that people are like, that's not right. I've read those books my whole life. I.
- [20:19]
B
Okay, anyway, it doesn't matter. What are we doing right now? But that's wild. I can't wait to find that kid.
- [20:25]
A
Tomorrow and be like, you were right of us. You all love us out there. You're all send us your. Your favorite Mandela effects. Anyway, point is, I feel like a collective chain. Good old Mandela effect is gorillas. Now here is the real question. Why the fuck was I talking about gorillas? Oh, no. Okay, so here's the other thing. I should have said this up up front. Jennifer Lynn Barnes also is sort of very well known for a series. For several series of YA novels, right? She's written, she wrote a series called the Inheritance Game. She's written a few. She's written a lot of like, why? Very, very well received YA novels. Anyway, point is she's a primatologist. She and I. Forgive me for not knowing exactly what kind of like primate ape. Monkeys.
- [21:12]
B
They're all monkeys. Everybody romance monkeys.
- [21:14]
A
I know they weren't gorillas because there's an island in like the South Pacific that is like called Monkey island. And she did a bunch of research there and while she was there and this, this place is like People don't go to it. It's literally just an island populated with, like, chimpanzees or something. And there's a. Jen's giving me a real look.
- [21:34]
B
I just feel like you're making everything.
- [21:36]
A
Listen to me, and then I am listening. Tell you crazy stories and see if you're paying attention.
- [21:41]
B
I am listening, but I am literally like, is she making all this up.
- [21:45]
A
To me with me?
- [21:46]
B
Because I'm fuzzy, and I'll be like, remember that monkey?
- [21:49]
A
I'll be talking.
- [21:52]
B
There's, like, a whole place that's just monkeys.
- [21:54]
A
And people will be like, no, there is. It's called Monkey island here. I'm gonna Google that, too. Here we go. This is everybody's favorite. Pause in the. In the sound while I. Monkey Island. There's a video game.
- [22:09]
B
You mean Donkey Kong?
- [22:11]
A
Okay, yes, there are monkey islands. I think the one that we're talking about is maybe Cayo Santiago in Puerto Rico, which is not in the South Pacific. Listen, everybody, just.
- [22:22]
B
We're all having so much fun right now.
- [22:23]
A
Just go with me on this.
- [22:24]
B
This is really peak. Jen and Sarah, who it really is.
- [22:29]
A
Point is. Or maybe there's one in Liberia. I don't know. Doesn't matter. You know what? She's not here. We'll find out someday. Anyway, everybody can ask. If you ever meet Jennifer Lynn Barnes in the wild, just ask her this question. Anyway, point is, she's a primatologist, and there's this island, and it's populated, almost exclusive, exclusively by, like, this kind of monkey, whatever it is. And there are cages. Like, they're basically researchers. Go there to study the, like, groups of the communities of monkeys that live on this island. And, like, whatever they are, the chimpanzees or whatever, are close enough to us that they can then sort of extrapolate in thoughts on human existence or whatever. And apparently, when you go there, like, if you bring your lunch, you have to, like, sit in a cage to eat your lunch, because the monkeys will come and, like, take your lunch. It's. She tells a great story about this. Anyway, point is, when she is on Monkey island, she starts to frame this kind of thing, theory of universal pleasure. And what she means by this is, like, in groups, large groups of primates, there are these kind of six clear pleasure centers that experiences that give primates pleasure when they are. When they witness them. And though really you're like, you're making all this up. Have I never told this story on the podcast?
- [23:55]
B
Oh, you have, but I don't think.
- [23:56]
A
I ever Got the multiple attention.
- [23:59]
B
No, I paid close attention. I've never gotten the Monkey island lead in to this story before.
- [24:05]
A
Oh, really? Well, look, I, I keep it. I keep it interesting. And so her concept is. Here are what they are. They are obviously touch, right? So like pleasure via touch or sex. But you know, any kind of touch. And then beauty, wealth, power, competition, and danger, right? These are the six things that are kind of that fire your, like, pleasure center as a primate slash human. Right. And so her concept was. And then of course, it's the reverse. So it's like, you know, touch or like the, you know, isolation, like beauty also like ugliness, wealth and poverty, power and lack thereof. Like competition is all about, about, you know, the, you know, winning and losing. And then danger remains. But in. But of course, like the, the thing that fires in our pleasure center when we think about danger is like watching danger. Like we are safe, but we're watching it, right? So it's like we watch F1 for the car crashes, right? They're dangerous. They're in danger. But I'm perfectly safe on my.
- [25:20]
B
But I'm safe.
- [25:20]
A
Sure, right.
- [25:21]
B
I mean, there's like the emotional. I mean, every romance novel is this for a person, right? You're like, look at these dummies.
- [25:28]
A
So she starts kind of putting it together as like a conceptual framework, as a primatologist, and she is also, if you remember, a YA novelist. And so she starts to think about ID as a universal pleasure center and how these kind of six things can be layered to make a bestseller. Like, is it possible that you can write these things into a book and make a bestseller? And so she starts to say, well, let's look at the Hunger Games, which has danger that is safe because we're reading it. Competition. The whole thing is a competition. It's all about power, about hoarding, like, right? Wealth, poverty, the haves, the have nots. The whole like the entire second act of the Hunger Games is a glow up. Like, that's all beauty. Katniss becomes beautiful. And then like the touch piece is the sort of romance of it all. So she starts to think like, well, if you can put all six of these things into a novel, can you make a bestseller? Right? And her, her research is really interesting. Like when she talks about it, she's fast and she's really fascinating because she'll show you like a best selling book and then she'll walk you through like all the ways that it does all of these things. It's great. And then what she started to do was she was like, but this isn't enough. Right? Because there isn't. Like, you might not enjoy this kind of rote work of, now I have to layer this in, and how do I make sure that this is part of it? And so she came up with this idea of you can actually have your own pleasure center. So there are these sort of six broad universal pleasure centers, or ID concepts, and then there is your own. Own private list. And this is for the writers among us, Right? Like, it's like the things that you love to watch, see, experience, read, whatever, and that you also love writing. Like, they give you joy when you write them. So she always says, like, I love it when my characters eat ice cream. Like, I. For me. So since I heard her give this talk, I have made my own ID list. And every once in a while, I'll be, like, experiencing something. I'll be at a play or watching a movie or reading a book, and I'll be like, oh, you know what? That's a thing I love. And they end up being the microtropes. Right. So it's like, some of these things will not surprise you. I love it when characters are on rooftops.
- [28:04]
B
You do?
- [28:05]
A
I do. I love mirrored gen number four on this list, which I did not realize when I wrote storms, is mirrored sunglasses on stern heroes. Yeah. And so the goal is, like, get it really, really, really specific. And then her whole thing is, once you have this list, when you get, like, bored when you're writing, go to your ID list and be like, well, can I write a scene where the hero is wearing mirrored sunglasses and very stern, and maybe put him on a boat?
- [28:39]
B
And maybe put them on a boat, you know? Yeah, that's great.
- [28:42]
A
So, I mean, like, I love secret passages. I love secret packages that arrive from dressmakers. I love. You know, I love it when large groups of people in a high. In a team do a slow walk out of a burning building. Right. Like, there are. And so, like, you as a reader also have things that you really love. And now for me, I keep a list because, like, I would really like to write, you know.
- [29:10]
B
Right, right.
- [29:11]
A
That more heroines with special skills or, you know, heroes who never smile but then smile one, like, when they finally, like, break. And so for me, like, my list is whatever my list is. But so when you said, how did you come to it? Like, I have some things. I went to this list, and I was like, oh, okay. Some. I'm gonna talk about some of these things. And then I also just was like, what other Like, I just sort of lay in my bed and thought for an hour about like all the things that I really like in romance novels.
- [29:47]
B
I always find it interesting to kind of be like, what are other people's? And then do I have that one right? And like, yes or no? So I actually have like, I was sort of keeping a list on my phone. But for me, often I found myself thinking, if there's a book I reread a lot because everybody knows I'm a scene rereader. I say that everybody knows you all don't. Now you know I'm a scene rereader often more than a whole book rereader. So if I'm. If is it like what is happening in the scenes that I read over and over and over again? This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Kylie Scott, author of so my ex boyfriend is a serial killer.
- [30:36]
A
You know, I was with somebody this weekend and they said that they thought that romantic suspense was gonna be the next big wave of romance. And I kind of hope it is. Especially when you have writers like Kylie Scott, who we avow at Faded Mates is one of the very best writing it. So nothing prepared heroine Sidney Walsh for the absolute embarrassment and definite awkwardness of having unknowingly dated an inefficient, infamous serial killer. She has committed to doing her best to move on, but the reality is that like, this does kind of like harsh the vibes of a social life once, once your ex has been dragged off to jail and convicted of serial killing and she might be able to just sort of like disappear into nothingness. If only amateur investigators, true crime podcasts, creepy fans, and a particularly belligerent police officer would leave her Al. Unfortunately, none of that is happening and her personal life is very quiet and kind of sad. She doesn't have that many friends and the neighbors want nothing to do with her now that you know she's been through this. But a tattooed chef and all around thirst trap. Noah moves in next door and things start looking up. Sydney is being asked on dates for the first time in forever and she is feeling like a real connection and also very sexy. She has a red hot desire for this guy. Unfortunately, we all know that that can't last. And so the darkest moments of her life come crashing back when her ex decides that he has unfinished business with her. And the big question is, will she and Noah make it out alive? And can their love withstand the nightmare of her past? This one's a real you and me against the world book and knowing Kylie, it's also going to be a lot of fun.
- [32:36]
B
So it also has a girls only amateur sleuth club, a rescue dog, and he chops wood for her. So what else do you really need to know? If you would like to check out? So My ex Boyfriend is a serial killer. It is available. It was available first as an Audible original and this week it came out in print and e. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Kylie Scott for sponsoring this week's episode. When I looked at my list altogether, one of the things that I thought that surprised me was how often my favorite, like, micro tropes have to do with, like, people having or not having a sense of belonging. So, for example, yeah, one of my favorite microtropes is they're at a family dinner and.
- [33:35]
A
Right.
- [33:36]
B
People have heard me say this. No one's surprised. And, you know, one of the love interests, right? Often the woman, I'll be honest, her family's just being real shitty to her. And if it's a male, female, you know, the love interest stands up for her, and it's kind of like, you guys are being such assholes to her right now. And so, like, the. As we come upon Thanksgiving, it's worth mentioning, her Naughty Holiday by Tiffany Rice has, like, what I think of as being, like, the iconic one of these scenes, right? And so her name's Clover Green, her siblings Hunter and Kelly and her difficult parents are there, and they're just all being so terrible to her. Eric is the love interest, and he's like, watching this happen, like, what the fuck is going on here? And he cannot help but sort of say, like, you, like, are terrible people. Like, right? And then she throws them all out, and he's like, all right, everybody, let's go. And he means, like, me too. Like, I'm gonna listen to her. And I like. I love scenes like this. And this is one of, like, many scenes where, like, the key element of what I like about that scene standing up to the family, is here are the people that she's supposed to belong with. But what the love interest is saying is, you belong with me. Yeah, we belong together. You don't have to be with those losers anymore, right?
- [35:05]
A
Yeah. Part of the joy of that is also, I think that goes hand in hand with one of the sort of cornerstone feelings in romance. The. The things that give me a lot of joy, which is the moment which should be in really every romance, which is, I See you better. Yes. Than anybody has ever seen you.
- [35:24]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [35:26]
A
And so being here in this place where your family just is totally. Not only are they being assholes to you, like, that also means that they don't understand you. Right, Right. They're not even trying to understand you. And all I want is to understand you.
- [35:38]
B
Yeah, well, and like, there's other, you know, another really, like, interesting element to that is her siblings, Clover's siblings have like, kids that they don't bring. And she's so hurt. Cause, like, all she wanted to do was, like, see her nieces and nephews and, you know, and it's like Eric is the only one who really sees, like, how devastated she is by that, like, the withholding of the children from her is so painful. So anyway, it's just like one of those scenes where like, every time I feel lucky, like I'm lucky enough to come across it, I'm just like, yeah, right.
- [36:15]
A
That's great. One of my favorites of that same kind of ilk is Naim is in that Blackout Billionaires series, the Naima Simone series, with the first one, which is the billionaire's bargain, is the one where she is like a waitress and she kisses. There's a blackout and they're in the dark and she kisses this guy who is a billionaire and then discovers that he is her dead husband's best friend. And he kind of has believed that, like, she has. She was the bad guy in, you know, between her dead husband and his best friend's, like, parents. And. And like he saw at the beginning of the book, he sort of is siding with her, with his. With her. Her in laws about, like, how she's, you know, not being respectful to them and she's not honoring the like, proper memory of her husband or whatever it is for the good of the children. The child. And then he realizes, like, as he gets to know her that they're actually assholes. And then he kind of swoops in and saves the day in a real, like, similar way where he's like, no, you guys are assholes. And like, he like, takes her away. I like that too, because I think it's a slight twist on what you're saying because. And this was not on my list, but it's a slight twist on what you're saying because it edges into what I really love from Heroes, which is I was wrong and now I see that you were right the whole time. Listen. Which is all I want from my other.
- [38:01]
B
I'm not sure that's a microtrope that's.
- [38:02]
A
Like the whole ball game, being a woman in the world. That's not. No, but it's a thing that I really love.
- [38:08]
B
Right. Like, a lot of us in the world, right, experience real difficulties with our families. You know, it's like, not everyone has, like, the perfect. Whoever person's gonna come in and, like, be like, don't worry, I'm on. You know what I mean? I'm on your side. And yes, you know, we're together, you know, like, don't worry, your family's got your back, or whatever. And so I think these moments also really speak to probably people who don't have that experience of like, you know, the perfect, you know, whoever in the family or best friend or whatever that's going to come in and sort of, you know, be there to listen or. Or whatever. So.
- [38:42]
A
Yeah, all right. I'm gonna take it to less serious place and I'm gonna say I really like it in Paranormals when the hero thinks the human heroine is, like, fascinating, but is also furious that she is so pure. Poorly made.
- [39:06]
B
This is. This one's broken. Mine's broken.
- [39:08]
A
No, but she. When he's like, I don't understand. Like, you could basically die at any moment. And she's like, I'm just fine like you. And he's like, no, but you really, honestly could die. And then, like. And she's just like, badass and wonderful, but, like. And he can't stop feeling like she's badass and wonderful, but, like, Like, I love it when they're like, oh, no, we. I can't have sex with her because, like, I'll. She'll clear. I will clearly break her. Like, I will clearly break her. This is a fragile, dumb creature kind of Lothaire style.
- [39:41]
B
Yeah, sure, yeah. And then she accidentally, like, cuts his entire head off. So.
- [39:45]
A
Exactly. She's like, fuck you. I'm about to show you how fragile I am. Right. I mean, I really love that. The book that I recommend, if you also love this. And obviously, you know, if you are a lothair lover, you will love for this reason you will love. This is Marion Pereira's the Beast Prince, which I've talked about before, but the heroine of this book is. The concept of this book is like, there is this kind of God king who rules over this town of people. And he is so powerful that he can turn himself into any form of earth. So he can either. He could be. If he's angry, he could be lava, he could be the mudslide, he could, you know, he could be a mountain. He could, you know, grow. He can like grow a feel. He can make fields like, thrive or like make them barren. Like so. And he sort of lives up on high above this town. And every. And this, this town has been like going through it like, and the. And every, you know, however many hundreds of years, they have to make a sacrifice to the king, right? And like, what happens is people go up there and they usually send a virgin, of course, because obviously. And then like they disappear, the virgins go away. And like. And so this time, like the fields are barren or something has happened and they're like, oh shit, we have to feed the God king, right? And so they're like, so. But there's a woman who is the captain of the guard of this town now. And she is like strong and brave and awesome. And she's like, fuck that, I'm going and I'm gonna kill him. And so she like goes up to the palace and of course, like is instantly terrified by. He meets her completely nude, by the way. Another thing I really enjoy, like just a man who's like, listen, I don't care. He meets her completely nude and then like, basically is like, okay, but you're mine now. Like, you walk, you came in, so you're mine now. And literally like immediately is fascinated, like, fascinated by her, but also like, like, oh my God, like you're made basically of like tissue paper. Like, so how does this work? And I just fucking love it. I think this is so delightful. And I don't know why I love it, but I do.
- [42:36]
B
Okay. I have one that is. It has like a couple different forms. The love interest. Okay, so it's about having a. Someone speaking another language.
- [42:47]
A
Yeah.
- [42:48]
B
All right. And in one version of it, this is like the Lord of Scoundrels version. Dane is like telling Jessica everything he feels about her in Italian because he can't tell her in English.
- [43:00]
A
Uh huh.
- [43:00]
B
And he's like, I'm talking about drains. And she's like, I think you're talking about how horny you are for me. And I like that a lot. The second version is more like the Julie Garwood style where she knows, right? Like one of them knows the. The other one's language and doesn't tell them the truth that they know it.
- [43:23]
A
Yeah, I wrote one like that. Yes.
- [43:25]
B
Now I think. I don't know why I love this. This is. I. I think it probably got hard a lot of these. I'm like, this is Julie Garwood just like hardwiring these things. Into me. Yeah, but I. I mean, I just recently, this week read something and I was like, teehee. I'm delighted by it all over again.
- [43:41]
A
Yeah, well, because Julie Garwood does it where it's like, we're enemies, so I will never admit that I understand your language. But then he's, like, telling her how much he loves her, how obsessed he is with her.
- [43:55]
B
Well, but it's the one in. I think these are all from the bride. Like, the one in the Bride where she doesn't tell him she knows Gaelic.
- [44:02]
A
Yeah.
- [44:02]
B
And then, like these, you know, she basically, like, drags a sword out and is about to kill these two. Two dummy kids or whatever, and he's like, oh, you speak gay.
- [44:10]
A
Like.
- [44:11]
B
Yeah. So I love this. I love. I think.
- [44:14]
A
Are you, like, exasperated? Like, you like to see a character on their back foot?
- [44:19]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Right. And I just love. I also love, like. I think I. I love the idea. It's like a shortcut somehow to somebody's, like, real. There's something, like, real that is hidden. It's like the language of your heart.
- [44:37]
A
Yeah.
- [44:37]
B
You know what I mean?
- [44:38]
A
Yeah.
- [44:39]
B
And you think you can hide it, but you fucking can't.
- [44:41]
A
No, I. I know everything about you. Even that fucking language that you think I don't know. Absolutely.
- [44:47]
B
Yeah. I love that one.
- [44:48]
A
I mean, well, since you said the bride, I actually have one from the bride that's different.
- [44:53]
B
I think I have a second one from the bride, too, but you.
- [44:55]
A
Yeah. Which is. It's outdoors and we're cold, and now we have to sleep together in my kilt.
- [45:02]
B
These blankets.
- [45:03]
A
Only one kilt.
- [45:06]
B
A plaid, Sarah.
- [45:07]
A
Only one plaid. Actually, I do have it listed on my thing as only one plaid. The bride. And this is. I mean, of course, listen, the bride installed a lot of buttons for you and for me.
- [45:18]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [45:19]
A
And this is the scene where he says, like, she's. Talk about horning for each other. She wants him and he knows she wants him, but she's like, I'll never submit. And he's like, okay, but I'm the Kincaid, so are you sure? And then they're, like, headed to Scotland. And he. She's like, you should kiss me. And he's like, I'll. I won't kiss you till you wear my plaid. And then it gets cold and they stop and she's cold. And this is the moment where she's like, I won't. Like, I'm just gonna shiver on the ground.
- [46:01]
B
And everyone else is like, what is that sound?
- [46:04]
A
And it's her shaking, just clattering in the background from being cold. And he opens up his plaid and he grabs her and he pulls her to him and he's a furnace. And then she's like wrapped in his plaid and she's wet maybe. And so, like, she gets naked. I can't remember, but they're wrapped in a plaid and he basically is like, well, now you're wearing my plaid. And then they do it in the woods.
- [46:35]
B
This week's episode of Fade Inmates is brought to you by Lumi Gummies. Consistent, mellow, and super delicious, Lumi Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of day de stressor, a midday mood boost, or help getting the best sleep ever, Lumi Gummies has a strain that's right for you.
- [46:55]
A
So listen, last week was election day and as everybody knows and many of you probably experience PTSD comes comes quick and heavy on election days. And I was of course glued to my computer and watching the results come in, but I had the help, help of a little Lumi Gummy who is keeping me company and making sure that I didn't just vibrate directly off the couch. So what I can tell you is that, you know, I have used Lumi for. I've used these gummies quite a bit over the last few years to sort of moderate my anxiety, my stress, my sort of tension in the evening. I will say they put me directly to sleep usually. And that is a really useful tool. I know. And you use them for sleep also.
- [47:49]
B
I do.
- [47:50]
A
And even, you know, sometimes we have a guest over and they don't drink for a dinner party. But as I think I've said before on the podcast now, there's this thing where, you know, at least two people who've been in my house over the last year for dinner parties have said, do you have a gummy? And I guess, like that's now what we do. We have that along with a red, a white, a rose and a gummy or a gummy.
- [48:13]
B
Amazing. So Lumi Gummies are available nationwide. Go to lumigummies.com that's L U M and use the code faded mates for 30 off your order. Again, that's L U M I gummies.com code faded mates. Thanks to Lumi Gummies for sponsoring this week's episode. So this, my other one from the bride though is we will recommend books.
- [48:40]
A
That are not the Bride, everyone.
- [48:43]
B
Okay, so remember I said a lot of mine are about belonging to. Okay, so, okay, spoiler Alert. If you haven't read this book from 40 years ago. Everybody, she. Every. Jamie thinks everybody hates her. Right? I mean, she's just like I can never fit in. I'm. I'm always causing trouble. I've started all these wars. I'm just a real troublemaker.
- [49:01]
A
Yeah.
- [49:02]
B
And then at the end, right. Repayment for the Lady Kincaid.
- [49:06]
A
Yeah.
- [49:06]
B
Is like. In fact what she. The whole community then turns out to say, no. You're so important to us.
- [49:14]
A
Y.
- [49:14]
B
Right. I love that.
- [49:16]
A
Well, it's interesting cuz the. That that ties into that microtrope which I. I also really love. And listen, I know it's toxic, but whatever. Shut up everybody. I love it when he's like. He thinks that nobody likes her or she's like. He thinks like she's not part of the community. Like he's just. She's just with him. Like she's only his. And then it turns out that like she's been, you know, playing games with him his, you know, seconds in command. Or like he's like hanging out with his buddies all the time. It's like when Chloe in McCreeve, but also in Mafia Mistress, she like. There's a scene where what's his name comes in and is like. And she's like fo comes into the kitchen and she's like chatting up, you know, other people in the mafia. And he's like. And they're all like, ho ho ho. She's so funny. And he's like, get the out that.
- [50:16]
B
Amazing. A.
- [50:18]
A
All right, okay, how about this? How about heroes who like are obsessed with making women have orgasms?
- [50:27]
B
We're so old school.
- [50:28]
A
As you all know, I have a bone to pick with current romance. And it is. You all have seemed to forgotten to have forgotten that there's a very clear rule. I know a lot of people feel like happily ever after is the only rule of romance. I feel that the first and forever rule of romance is she comes first and then he handles himself. And I feel like a lot of people are missing the he loves to go down moment in a romance novel. And I'm lodging. Consider this my formal complaint. But in Mr. O by Lauren Blakely, it literally begins. The first chapter is like so and so. I don't even know his name. Mr. O. He loves three things and it's like video games, money and making women come.
- [51:23]
B
And you're like, what a here. What a man for our time.
- [51:27]
A
Yeah. And it's like he loves cunnilingus and he's not afraid to admit It. And then, of course, this is a book where a favorite actual trope of mine, which is, I think I'm bad at sex. And so, like, I need somebody who to, like, make sure that I'm, like, not bad at sex. And so she goes off and her brother's best friend happens to just, like, really super love making women have orgasms.
- [51:58]
B
A very, like, underrated cousin to this is he goes down on her before they kiss with their mouths. Oh, yeah.
- [52:07]
A
That's a good one, too.
- [52:08]
B
I've been reading Son of the Morning.
- [52:13]
A
Nice.
- [52:13]
B
Bam. And I was, like, elevated the book instantaneously.
- [52:18]
A
Yeah. Everybody make better choices.
- [52:24]
B
I think that's why I love Malcolm, you know, from the. The. Yeah.
- [52:28]
A
He's like, what's that?
- [52:29]
B
Let me get it.
- [52:29]
A
It. The Ice Planet barbarians guys too.
- [52:33]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [52:34]
A
What's this? I'm gonna. I'm gonna eat it.
- [52:39]
B
So wrong. Oh, my God.
- [52:41]
A
Somebody said to me yesterday, Jen, like, an actual real person who doesn't know me, like, know me the way you know me know me the way that people who listen to this podcast know me, an actual real person, said to me yesterday, sarah, you should run for office this. And I said, do you know that there are eight full years of me saying unhinged things?
- [53:05]
B
Yeah.
- [53:06]
A
Like the. The super YouTube videos, the Oppo research. Although what I would say is, to my collective purple district is you all deserve men in your lives who know how to get it done to you. Yeah, I stand by it.
- [53:28]
B
Anyway, I love it when they're, like, at a gala or, like, something.
- [53:33]
A
Yep.
- [53:34]
B
Everybody's real dressed up. And then, like, they're having feelings and they have to, like, take off their tie, you know, Like. Like, like the physical manifestation of their feelings is like, I can't. I can't. You know, like, they're just like, fucking love that shit.
- [53:57]
A
That's good. But I can't think of anything.
- [53:58]
B
I can't either. I think it's so small.
- [54:01]
A
It's like. That makes me think of, like, this is not the same at all. But you said it. And I honestly had a moment where I was like. It's like in Gentle Rogue where she just thinks she has a stomachache. Oh, yeah. The whole time she's turned on.
- [54:14]
B
I think a related subtopic of this is when he's. You know, she's like, my boss is so, you know, locked in and, you know, whatever. And then it turns out his dick is pierced and she's like, like, what? What is. Like, her whole mind is blown because this man, I Mean, I have to.
- [54:31]
A
Be honest, I've never seen this, and it feels like it would be a shock, I'm sure.
- [54:37]
B
Especially if this is a man who you've never even seen.
- [54:40]
A
No, I mean, like, a man you've never seen out of his, like, tailored suit. Sure. Are you kidding?
- [54:46]
B
Are you kidding me? No. Absolutely crazy. So, yeah, I like that. Just because I think that it, you know, it's like, so literally visceral. But. Okay.
- [54:57]
A
There was a period in romance where there were a lot of characters, a lot of heroes had. What are they called? Prince Albert's.
- [55:04]
B
Yeah. Like, was this, like, an actual title that, like, joked about it?
- [55:08]
A
Yes. And also there was. But there is the Kristen Callahan book where he's a virgin. He also has one which. What? That's romance piercing.
- [55:20]
B
That is romance piercing. Now this is a good time to talk about romance tattoo.
- [55:24]
A
You know what? We could do a whole episode on romance piercing because there's also. We won't. Everybody. So we're just going to tackle it here, which is. This is not my microtrope, but if it is yours, here's what we're going to do. Romance piercing would also have to include the Nikki Sloan book the Redemption, where he. She has a pierced clit and he buys her, like, a giant diamond piercing. And instead of her, like, going to, I don't know, a medical professional or whoever it is who replaces your clip piercing. He does it. Him. He does the replacement himself. And I'm like, whatever is going on here is clearly romance.
- [56:02]
B
Yeah, that's romance piercing for sure.
- [56:04]
A
Romance piercings. Kylie Scott has a. Those guy. One of those guys has nipple piercings right in stage now. I don't know, maybe somebody's yelling at me right now.
- [56:18]
B
Yeah, I do like. I do like romance tattoo, I feel like is adjacent and a little less terrifying maybe than romance piercing.
- [56:26]
A
I have a romance tattoo thing on my list. Would you like me to go? Unless you have one.
- [56:31]
B
No, go ahead. And then I'll talk about, like, my one example that I really like.
- [56:35]
A
Okay. So obviously, and everybody knows this because I've written it, like, seven to 12 times. I really like tattoos that are, like, secret but have, like, where the other character doesn't know you have it. And when they discover it, it's something, like, deeply personal to your past, like, together.
- [56:55]
B
Okay, I like that.
- [56:56]
A
I mean, I've written that into a lot of books and. Because I fucking love it. Because I love the idea of him just, like, having been just broken and miserable for 10 to 15 years, just carrying your painful Mark around on his body. That's what I want. Why is that too much for me to ask in real life.
- [57:22]
B
On their body or on their psyche?
- [57:24]
A
Well, I mean, yeah, but I want the physical manifestation of the damage I have done. I want him to have clearly not been to therapy and instead have marked himself with his bare desire for you, his aching yearning for you. And for this one, I recommend Funny feelings by Tara DeWitt, which you would not expect to have this kind of like deeply aching, like, important tattoo situation in it, but it is actually really lovely. The heroine of this book is a stand up comedian. There is. She has like, she has a relationship with her, like, long standing manager who's like slightly older than she is, has a daughter and she has kind of like come. He's a widow, a widower and he, she kind of like comes into their life and of course, like, they have to keep it professional, but like, she really becomes part of him. And the tattoo. I won't say much more about the tattoo, but it is, is a really like, beautiful long standing manifestation of like how important she is to his world. And it's well deployed.
- [58:41]
B
I was just rereading this week. There's this like, series by Katie Wilde called the Hellfire. Hellfire writers. And the ones I like, I like them all, but like the Jack and Lily ones, he's basically been into her for fucking years and her name's Lily. And when they finally, like, it's kind of crazy, the setup, right? And he, and he has like a Lily tattoo and she's literally like, whoa. And I really like that. Like he's like, I have been pining for you for so long and this tattoo has been on my body for so long because that's how in to you I am. And I think it's, yeah, real hot.
- [59:18]
A
So.
- [59:18]
B
Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like a tattoo and I like. I said romance tattoo. A little less terrifying to me than romance. Fiercely.
- [59:24]
A
Yes. I think this next one may not be a microtrope because here's what I want to say. I want to propose to the, to the class. Part of what makes something a microtrope is you really could find it in any romance, like at any point. As you're sort of reading along, you'll find, you could find a moment where like this is in there because it's not relevant to the plot. It's not relevant to like, it's, it, it's, it's shading in the, in the painting. Right. So I'm not actually sure this counts because I think if you were to write it into your book, it would immediately be compared with one of. With a handful of other books. And that is. I really like it when she shoots him.
- [60:12]
B
I mean, I like it when she.
- [60:15]
A
Like, takes him out. Yeah. I think the problem is, though, is that when a weapon is involved, you're going to immediately be compared to either Lord of Scoundrels, which we know is, like, sort of the primordial, like, sure, she shoots a moment, or to Beverly Jenkins's Tempest. And so that is the book that I would say, like, if you are tempted by. Now, in this particular case, she. In Tempest, in Lord of Scoundrels, she fully fucking intends to shoot him.
- [60:45]
B
Yes.
- [60:46]
A
In Tempest. It is a mistake, though, to be fair. She's not that sad.
- [60:50]
B
She's not, like, all broken up about it, though.
- [60:53]
A
She's not gonna let that get to her.
- [60:54]
B
But she's like, seem fine. You deserve. You did deserve it, my friend.
- [60:57]
A
But the greatest thing about it is basically in Tempest, it leads to one of my very favorite men, which is Exasperated Man.
- [61:06]
B
Sure.
- [61:06]
A
And I mean, truly. I feel like all microtropes and somehow, somehow relate to man who is not having a great day. Except for the one where he really likes giving ladies orgasms. Except by the end of the book, when he. When they. When they come into the book, really loving, giving women. Women broadly, like sort of man of the people style, orgasms. Right. Then by the end of the book, the problem is he doesn't want to give anybody else an orgasm. He just wants to give her an orgasm. And then Exasperated Man, Frustrated Man. Man having a bad day.
- [61:42]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [61:44]
A
Basically, that's what I want. I want all heroes to be having a bad day all the time, right up till the end.
- [61:51]
B
You know, it's funny because I now have a couple books by S.J. tilly, which I think. I think S.J. tilly was potentially, like, forged in the same fire that I was in. And one of the things that I think is, like, really important is in romance is, like, noticing. Right. The way we know that the characters are into each other is that they are, like, really noticing each other. And so one of the things I really like and often the example in this book is like, all right, so in Mountain Boss Boss, it's Courtney and Sterling are the two characters. And Courtney has, like, gone up to, like, work at his. She's like, yeah. Like, literally, he has, like, a camp or something. I don't know.
- [62:42]
A
Mountain Boss.
- [62:43]
B
I know, it's crazy. Whatever.
- [62:45]
A
What a title.
- [62:47]
B
I'm not even mad about it.
- [62:48]
A
No.
- [62:49]
B
I don't even think I've read this entire book. Everybody, like, I know exactly what this.
- [62:53]
A
Book is and I want it. And that's romance title.
- [62:56]
B
She's broke, but she's been hired as his, like, you know, like, fix it guy. And I think he thinks it's a man, like, based on her, like, court is how, you know, how she signs her emails or whatever. And he's like, so pissed and just like a woman. And so she is just like, well, I have. I can't tell him that I need anything because I'm barely on the edge here, but I really need this job. And so there's all of these fucking ways that he really misreads the situation. She, like, literally does. There's no. He puts her in a cabin, a different cabin than he was going to because he's like, well, you should have your own space. But there's no mattress on the bunk, so she's like, sleeping on a plywood board. And she's like, I can't tell him about it. He's probably.
- [63:44]
A
He doesn't die if she were uncomfortable.
- [63:47]
B
Listen, it's great when he finally figures it out because he feels like the biggest jackass in the entire fucking world. Yeah. And he is.
- [63:58]
A
Yeah.
- [63:58]
B
And I think, like, the thing. The reason why I love that moment is first of all because, like, I. I have a lot of respect for women with, like. Right. A lot of pride. I feel like Scorpio season.
- [64:10]
A
Right.
- [64:11]
B
Me too. I'm like, I would die first. So I, like, respect that. Like, she's so proud. But then when he figures it out, I mean, the way this man tortures himself over it is frankly terrific. And although I've not finished that entire book, I have read that scene more than once where he, like, goes in and I can't remember why, and he's like. Like, something looks weird there. And then he's like, what the fuck? And it's great. He. Sarah freaks out so much that he, you know, calls down to the. Down the mountain and orders new mattresses for every single bunk, like, in the entire cab. Like, the entire.
- [64:53]
A
Because Jen, he's mountain boss.
- [64:56]
B
And you know what? It's great. Later he finds out she doesn't have enough to eat. I thought he's gonna throw himself off the mountain. And I was enjoying it quite a lot.
- [65:04]
A
Oh, God, that's such a great moment, though, in all of them. Like, she hasn't been eating, she hasn't been sleeping. She has an uncomfortable bed. Her Shoes are too tight, her dress is ripped. Like, yes, My God, it's the moment. Oh, what book am I thinking of? It's old. I mean, like, I was forged in the fire of a very particular decade of romance. And, like, and he, like, walk. It's like Cinderella style. He, like, walks into a room and he sees her just, like, in like, shabby shambles. And he realized, like, she's like this because he was a fucking asshole. God, that's the best.
- [65:43]
B
It's the best.
- [65:44]
A
It's the best. Anyway, I don't know. We'll never know, everyone.
- [65:50]
B
The key part of this has to be, I'm the master of the universe. This is my mountain. I know how everything works here. So for him to get that wrong and in a way that has put her in discomfort, a plus.
- [66:04]
A
Okay. Forced proximity in very weird places.
- [66:08]
B
Oh, yeah, I love this.
- [66:09]
A
Because here's the thing. Like, we all love forced proximity. That's like a fine old trope, right? Like, we're snowed in in a cabin. We are on a boat together. We're in a carriage for, you know, four days, going to Scotland, whatever it is, right? But it's a particular kind of romance that takes your. That forced proximity and kicks it directly up a notch and puts you in a very strange place and forces you to be in proximity with each other. So I want to talk just briefly about Beautiful Sinner by Sophie Jordan, where the main character is, like, kind of. She's, like, plus sized and has been living in this town for her whole life. And she is like the, like, sweet, like, good girl in her family. Parentheses, non sexual. Just like, she's just, like, good. And everybody just thinks she is just, you know, she's just lovely. That's just her. She's just a nice person. And who knows what will ever happen to her because, you know, she's just a nice person. And she gets invited. She's like every. She's all the nieces and nephews, favorite aunt. Like, she just. So she gets invited to a, like, play. Her, like, niece is in a play at high school and it's the high school that she went to. And at the same time, meanwhile, there's, you know, this is part of Sophie's Devil's Rock series. This series is all, like, men who have been in Devil's Rock Penitentiary. Like, and they're all, like, it's, you know, their own experience. Each one has, like, a different experience, like, with the real world once he has left the prison. And so this one has gotten out of Prison. And he did, in fact, do the crime that he was in prison for. And, like, the whole town, he's gone home to, like, the town that they grew up in. And the whole town is basically, like, scandal. Like, here he is. He's out of prison. Like, he's. Who knows what will happen? He's a monster. He's not a monster. He, like, makes sculptures in his back garden. He's very sweet and emotional. Anyway, point is, he was very, very handsome. He is very, very handsome. And now very, very built. Because 1. What else did he do in prison but run around the yard, I guess. I don't know. Chin ups. And so he looked. Listen, he looks great. And she has always had a crush on him. And there's this whole. Oh, here's another microtrope I really love. There's this whole backstory where, like, one night in the dark, like, at some, like, party that she was kind of invited to but didn't have any friends at, he. They kissed in the dark.
- [68:51]
B
Oh, I love that.
- [68:52]
A
And she is like, listen, I love the dark. I love rooftops. This was great for me. They kissed in the dark. And she's convinced that he had no idea that it was her. Like, she took off and, like, he was dating. He immediately was, like, dating somebody else. And, like, she never got the courage to tell him. Anyway, through a confluence of romance events at this play or whatever, she ends up locked in a janitorial closet with.
- [69:25]
B
Him in, like, the high school. Right?
- [69:27]
A
At the high school for the weekend. Nobody realizes that she's not with them when they leave.
- [69:37]
B
Amazing.
- [69:38]
A
Now, listen, this is a little bit of Sophie's core story coming out, because she really likes a. A character who has been forgotten by her family and, like, ends up kind of falling into a relationship with a man. But anyway, so they, like, do it. It's. And it's dark. There are no lights on in the. There. I can't remember. I think for at least part of it, there are no lights on in the closet. And so they. What. What are they to do in there? In that closet?
- [70:07]
B
I know what they're going to do, sir.
- [70:08]
A
And yeah, they are. And it's going to be great. And also, like. And also this has another. Another little microtrope that I think. I think it has the other one, which is we kiss and I know it's you.
- [70:22]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [70:22]
A
Which is a very. That's, like, from Zorro or something. Like, there's a masked kind of we kissed and I knew it was you movie.
- [70:29]
B
Yeah. And the Louisa darling. That second one, right? Like, he knows it's her, she knows it's him, but neither of them thinks the other one knows. Yeah, but they're kissing all the time. It's great.
- [70:39]
A
Boom. Amnesia.
- [70:40]
B
Boom. Amnesia. That's book three.
- [70:42]
A
Can you think of forced proximity in a weird place?
- [70:45]
B
Yeah, but it's embarrassing. But I'm gonna. But here we are. Whatever. My mom can't be listening anymore after we talk that much about going down on people.
- [70:53]
A
Hi, Mom. My mom never listens, so I immediately.
- [70:59]
B
Thought of the Hostage Bargain by Annika Martin. This is the first book in the Kinky Bank Robbers series.
- [71:07]
A
Your favorite.
- [71:09]
B
I am so fucking simple, everybody.
- [71:12]
A
You've talked about this on the podcast, the Bank Fault.
- [71:15]
B
No, it is literally they. Okay, so it's like there's three male bank robbers and then one woman. And they. It's not like, whatever swords crossed or whatever people say, right? Like, it's like she individually sleeps with each of them, and sometimes they're all together, but it's not like they sleep with each other, the men. But anyway, the one. Her name's. They all. They're bank robbers. So they have, like, little bank robber names, and they're all after, like, gods. And Zeus has been very distant from her for most of the first book. Her names, they read. They name her Isis after they kidnap her from the bank that she's working in. And at the end, Isis and Zeus get, like, literally, Sarah locked into, like, a shipping container. Container. And I was like, it's not sexy. You're gonna die.
- [72:06]
A
Confusing, right?
- [72:07]
B
It is confusing. And then, really, honestly, it is. And yet incredibly memorable. And as soon as you start talking to guys like. Like that kinky Bay Croppers book.
- [72:16]
A
Yeah, yeah. Forced proximity in weird places. Listen, the amazing thing about romance Earth is there's oxygen everywhere. No one ever has to pee, and that's that.
- [72:32]
B
Yeah, I like it a lot. That's fun.
- [72:34]
A
Okay, are we there? What are we doing?
- [72:36]
B
I have a couple more. Well, I have one more that has, like, a book attached, and then more a bunch on the list that just. I'm delighted when I come across them, and then they're gone from my brain. I don't have no specific references.
- [72:48]
A
Okay, well, hang on a second, because we're gonna do more than one of these every year. Then maybe you just make yourself a list when you come across them.
- [72:56]
B
No, Sarah, no.
- [72:57]
A
That's not fair. I want to play. Lay them on me. I have one left, so you go for a little.
- [73:01]
B
No, I have one. I have One more. And you have one more. And then I'll tell you my, like, you know, like my. My lightning round. Sure, sure. Okay. In Hans, also by S.J. tilly, she is the world's most terrible cook. But he eats all the food.
- [73:15]
A
Oh, yeah. You love that.
- [73:16]
B
I do love that. And I think in the. I can't imagine any book would ever do that trope better than this book does. He is. And she keeps like a blog. He's. She's so proud of her cooking. And he will like, basically the minute she, like drops off the food on his porch, he forces himself to eat it. And like, the descriptions of him, like, trying to make the food more palatable.
- [73:39]
A
He.
- [73:40]
B
She leaves the food on his porch and he. Meanwhile, she never sees him. She met him once, so she's trying to be a good neighbor. So she leaves food on the porch. He has like, you know, he's like some assassin or whatever. The minute she leaves, he'll like go. And then he just. It's like he's starving or something. But he's forcing himself to eat the worst food he's ever tasted.
- [74:02]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [74:03]
B
And then he'll return, like the empty container. That's why she knows he's eating it, but she has no idea that he's like, what are you doing? And he's described.
- [74:13]
A
He's feeding himself food poisoning several times in the book.
- [74:15]
B
Like, at one point, it's like these like, zucchini brackets. He's. He's like, why are these so wet? You know what I mean? And then there's like these corn cookies or something. And he's just like, what is this? But he cannot help it. It's great. It's great. So, yeah, like, somebody's terrible at something, but the other person is like, I can't get enough of it.
- [74:37]
A
That feels like it's old school Garwood too. Like, there's a Garwood where it's like she's cons. Like his pe he has his guards constantly protecting, like, because she's just chaos. Okay. We talked about this on the stream, on the episode that we did about D.C. lA and Chicago. And I mentioned that when we were talking about Streams and Schemes by Rebecca Kincaid, that I really, really love it when the beginning of the book is, oh, no, we're going to die. We'd better fuck.
- [75:09]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [75:10]
A
And when I said that, somebody on the Discord was like, this is a thing. And I was like, it is a thing. Because Odette Stone in Puck Me secretly begins the book, you love That. I do love that. I mean, listen, I also love. I have also discovered that I really love plane crashes in romance novels because it's always, like, two people. I like, meet cutes on planes. I like any romance that has a plane involved in it. I don't know why. I'm, like, not. It's not like I'm, like, a pilot or care much about planes, but, like, when I actually think about it, I sort of love. I love it when they do it on a plane. I love, like, I love all that stuff. I especially love. I sat down next to a handsome stranger, and now we are on this plane together and, like, hot for each other. And then, oops, he's my boss or whatever. But in this case, this is a hockey romance, though it does not start out like a hockey romance. And they are both headed to Vancouver because I think Odette is from Vancouver and she. So she, you know, she has this, like, hockey team in Vancouver, and they are on a plane and like, halfway, she. They sort of. Each notice that the other is attractive.
- [76:17]
B
But of course, like, sure, what are you gonna do?
- [76:19]
A
Plane? What are you gonna do? And then the plane starts to crash, and they, like, she sort of panics, and she, like, grabs his hand and they. And they, like, have this, like, deeply, deeply intense moment. And I think this is another one where she's like, like, I've never had an orgasm. And she just, like, sort of. They. And they're holding hands and they're basically like, well, we're going down. So. And then the plane actually crashes. It does not, like, they do not rectify it.
- [76:48]
B
It's not just turbulence.
- [76:49]
A
Yeah, no. And the two of them are very lucky. And they, like, walk away and then they do it. And then they get to Vancouver finally and discover that she herself, her father owns the team, and she is there to, like, prove her mettle as, like, a marketing person. And he is, like, on the team. And so they have to keep it a secret from her dad. And also. But it's also, like, deeply emotional because they had, like, been through this traumatic experience.
- [77:16]
B
Yeah.
- [77:17]
A
And, yeah, I love it.
- [77:20]
B
I forgot to mention at the beginning, I'm gonna put in show notes on Reddit. I found a person once who wrote a really hilarious. This thing. I've mentioned this before about Mary Baila, Mary Bellow, and how much she loves. It's the title of it is Stern Men who Can't Stop Skinny Dipping.
- [77:36]
A
Oh, yes.
- [77:39]
B
And I just was like, this is a person who really understands, like, the power of a microtrope. You know what I mean? So one thing that is really fun is if you have an author you.
- [77:48]
A
Really love, find their microtrope, right?
- [77:51]
B
Where you can like, find what their microtrope is. And I think that can be really fun. So anyway, I'll put that in show notes. Really funny. Okay. But here are like four things I had on my list.
- [78:01]
A
Lightning round. Let's do it.
- [78:02]
B
Ready?
- [78:03]
A
I'm. I'm gonna. I'm like, getting in the zone.
- [78:06]
B
No, no. These are like, one of these is so common, but I love it. Right? These are not, like, name them. They're just so common, but I love them when the person leaves and the other one smells their clothes or sheets.
- [78:19]
A
Yes. Okay. Okay.
- [78:20]
B
Now I don't love it when, like, a man, like, picks up the panties and smells them and puts it in his pocket. Too much. But like, just like, too much, too much. I just want a little less of that.
- [78:29]
A
Yeah, okay.
- [78:29]
B
I love that.
- [78:30]
A
Or when you mean when one of them leaves.
- [78:34]
B
Yeah.
- [78:34]
A
And the other one, like, not like, oh, I have to go to work.
- [78:37]
B
But like, no, like, they're gone. But I can't wash these sheets, cuz these are.
- [78:41]
A
You're in cold storage. And this pillow is all you have left of her.
- [78:43]
B
Yeah.
- [78:44]
A
Good luck to you.
- [78:45]
B
I love when the person who never breaks rules agrees to break or bend the rule for the love interest. Right?
- [78:55]
A
Okay.
- [78:55]
B
Yeah, like, just like, you know, I never ever would, blah, blah, blah.
- [78:59]
A
But then I'll never kneel. Goodbye. That's kissing angel, everybody. I will never kneel.
- [79:05]
B
I will never kneel. And you're like, you're right. Who needs to kneel?
- [79:09]
A
And then he's a Romanov prince.
- [79:13]
B
I love it when characters only refer to each other by their last name.
- [79:18]
A
Yeah. Yes.
- [79:19]
B
And then all of a sudden, you.
- [79:22]
A
Love the moment in a romance where the first name is on the table.
- [79:25]
B
Yeah. This is what's with Ilia and Shane in heated rivalry.
- [79:31]
A
But also, that's a. That's a real historical thing where it's like, I only ever address this hero with his title. And then he's like, call me.
- [79:42]
B
Call me Sebastian.
- [79:44]
A
Call me Sebastian.
- [79:45]
B
All right, I have one more. Ready? Someone gets all doped up on pain medicine and tells the other person the truth.
- [79:55]
A
I love that. Perfect, right?
- [79:57]
B
I love that. Like, NyQuil. It's like a truth serum. How could I do anything but tell you the truth?
- [80:04]
A
I mean, I can think, like, there's also, like, the. She got really. She gets real drunk and then says a bunch of, like, inappropriate stuff to Him.
- [80:12]
B
Not in a creepy way. Like, right. Like, in a kind of normal, innocent way.
- [80:15]
A
Yeah, in a way where he's like.
- [80:16]
B
The truth is coming. Exactly. Yeah.
- [80:19]
A
You know what I like? I like it when they say I love you to her to them when.
- [80:24]
B
They'Re sleeping, you know, related to my food. 1. One of my favorite things in Lead by Kylie Scott is that he secretly stuck, like, she. They live together because she's his sobriety companion, and he's been secretly stalking the, like, fridge with, like, her favorite, like, pie when she gets her period every month and she never noticed.
- [80:44]
A
Yeah, he's like, who do you think.
- [80:46]
B
Is getting the pie in the fucking fridge every month? Shut up. You're just rich. It's great. I'm giving you something you didn't even know you needed.
- [80:56]
A
Exactly. All right, listen. I think this was a fun episode, and I think that if we. That we should do it a couple times a year. And in order for us to do it a couple times a year, I mean, obviously if anybody listens to this podcast, they know that we can come up with a couple times a year kind of content for this. However, we care about you all and we want you all to have nice things. So if you can think of a microtrope that you really love, shoot us a message. If you're on the Discord, just drop it in. Ask Jen and Sarah in that channel. Or if you're on Instagram, just drop it in. Comments on this episode. Same with threads or. Or. Or Blue Sky. And we will keep a list. And if you tell us what book you're thinking of, if you have, you know, you don't have to tell us, but if there is a book that is logical for you, then we'll shout it out on the podcast and also try and give you another one. Jen and I really like these episodes where we are challenged to just open the file cabinet of our. The brain hammer of our romance brain, because we don't have very much else.
- [82:03]
B
There's literally nothing else up in there. I have no idea. There is.
- [82:06]
A
Everything up in there is just. Just weird romance novel shit.
- [82:09]
B
It's so true. And then you come across something and you're, like, so delighted by it. And I'm like, why? Why am I like this? Like, can I admit? I almost went on the list, and I guess, here we are. I'm gonna do it. There's a. I was reading one of these, like, guys, I'm not even gonna lie to you. This is like. Like, you know, kind of like a one Handed read. It's like one of these, like, Mafia Rose E. Rose books or whatever called Oops Baby for the mafia boss. Not even. I was like, what's wrong with me? But she's reading a romance novel at work. She's like, listening to an audiobook and then, like, comes in and her, like, earbud skitters out. She's like, scrabbling across the room trying to. To, like, make it stop while our boss is just, like, listening to this sex scene.
- [82:56]
A
I'm actually kind of surprised there isn't more of that. It feels like in. In, like, the rom com world. Like, that is a funny objectively. Anytime anybody messages us and is like, we. I dropped my car off for to be serviced and it was still playing Faded Mates. And it was the part where Sarah was talking about men who just desperately want to go down on women.
- [83:14]
B
Like, yes, it's fucking hilarious.
- [83:18]
A
That's objectively funny. And also. So I don't. I mean, probably a problematic meet cute in the real world, but in romance on romance Earth.
- [83:28]
B
I mean, listen, it's Oops, maybe for the mafia boss. Sarah, come on. It's not like.
- [83:32]
A
No, listen, that's great. I'm for it.
- [83:34]
B
This is one of those books where he runs like, a Mafia.
- [83:36]
A
I don't know that I'm for Oops Baby.
- [83:38]
B
Yeah, I don't. I don't even think I finished it. I was like, I don't really want her to have an Oops baby, but I guess he's rich, so whatever.
- [83:45]
A
Jen. She's gonna get pregnant and he's gonna be like, I have bred this woman and now she is mine and I will just keep her bred forever.
- [83:56]
B
Okay, let's stop now.
- [83:57]
A
We did a breeding episode, everybody. We did it with Joanna Shoup.
- [84:03]
B
We sure did.
- [84:04]
A
And we will link to that in show notes in case that is your trope.
- [84:08]
B
In case you're like, oops.
- [84:10]
A
I didn't know I did that in my life, but it was a fun one to do. It is one of our most popular episodes, everyone. Because you're all pervs. So we're all the same. We're all here in the deep end of the pool just being gross. So stern.
- [84:27]
B
Men who can't stop skinny dipping, everybody.
- [84:28]
A
That's what we love it over here. Anyway, so that is that. Let us know about your favorite Microtropes. I'm Sarah McLean. I am not running for office anytime soon, and I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop. We are fated mates, and you can find us every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts, you can also find us on Instagram at Faded Mates Pod, on on Threads at Faded Mates Pod and on Blue sky at Faded Mates. If you really love having conversations like this and sharing microtropes and asking for recommendations related to tropes and microtropes you love, you should not not miss our discord, which is where we go whenever we have a question about books. You can head over there. You can join the discord@patreon.com fatedmates or fatedmates.net patreon also@thetamates.net you can find episodes show notes which have the names of every single book we talk about during the episode. Very useful for books. Books for episodes like this, where we're just kind of, you know, shooting from the hip, as they say. And Jen puts all those together every week. They're amazing. You can find everything you need there, including all of the information that we promised, including the Breeding episode now and what else? Is that it? Oh, I have an event this week.
- [85:52]
B
Okay.
- [85:54]
A
I am going to be for New Yorkers Thursday night. Let me just make sure it is Thursday night. Thursday night, the 13th, I am at the Rip Bodice with a couple of other people talking about Ladies in Waiting, the Austin anthology that we talked about last week. We probably won't be talking about men who really want to go down on that panel because it has, like, I don't know, impressive, important writers and not just me on it. But if you want to do that, you could sit in the back and then raise your hand and ask a question and that would be super fun to watch. Anyway, that's the Rip Bodice on Thursday. You can get tickets in Shownot or@the rip bodice.com Anyway, thanks everybody for all you did to make this week special for us and for the rest of the country. We love you. We love that you're with us and we hope you're taking care of yourself and each other.
- [86:52]
B
We love you all. Bye.