S08:13 KJ Charles’s the Magpie Lord: We’re Gonna Get to the Tattoos

Summary

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Fated Mates – S08:13

Book Deep Dive: KJ Charles’s The Magpie Lord (“We’re Gonna Get to the Tattoos”)

Main Theme & Episode Purpose

This episode of Fated Mates is a vibrant, in-depth discussion of KJ Charles’s beloved historical paranormal romance The Magpie Lord. Co-hosts Sarah MacLean and Jennifer Prokop break down the book’s themes, plot, craft, and emotional resonance—with trademark humor, critical insight, and a focus on what makes this queer romance a trailblazer of the genre. The episode covers not only the novel’s haunting magic and gothic suspense, but also how the story and its characters negotiate trauma, power, and joy, leaving listeners with a thorough understanding of the book whether they’ve read it or not.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pre-Book Banter: Community, Reading, and Romance Culture

• Discussion of snow and biking in cities: Jen and Sarah chat about city biking, the dangers of black ice, and how winter impacts urban life and exercise.

  • Memorable Quote:
    • “If you are a hardcore asshole, please know that Jen said that and not Sarah.” – Sarah (05:09)

• Romance reader community online: They highlight the “watercooler” feel of their Discord, the pleasures of watching TV shows week to week (e.g., Heated Rivalry), and how passionate and engaged romance readers are as a group.

  • “This is because romance readers… want to talk about everything.” – Sarah (11:06)
  • Reference to using Discord stats: Realization that they're in the TOP percentiles of Discord users, reflecting how robust the community is. (10:27)

• Book Boxes & Gifting: The hosts spotlight their “Best of 2025” book box with Pocketbooks (18:04), encouraging sharing and holiday reading traditions.

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2. KJ Charles and The Magpie Lord: Context & Impact

The Author’s Publishing History

• Is this KJ Charles's first book?

  • Jen confirms that while she had read much of Charles’s work, this was her first time reading The Magpie Lord, which was also Charles’s first full-length novel (22:35).
  • Explains the challenges of book discoverability in pre-social media days and how indie/small-press romance publishing (like Samhain) changed the game for a lot of marginalized voices and inventive romance subgenres (25:42–31:52).

• Trailblazer status:

  • Charles’s early and prominent place in mainstream queer romance—a game-changer in broadening what romance could be, both in subject and in craft (26:53).
  • “KJ was one of the first romance writers who was writing queer characters. And… the books broke into the mainstream.” – Sarah (26:53)

The Book’s Structure, Craft, and Publishing Legacy

• Pacing & Structure:
  • The book is lauded as a “masterclass in how to structure a story,” category-length, and “paced like a bullet from a gun” (27:12–28:17).
• Industry Shifts:
  • Explains the rise and fall of small presses like Samhain and how business and Amazon algorithms influenced what readers could find and authors could publish (34:16–36:21).

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3. Deep Dive into The Magpie Lord

Plot Overview & Initial Impressions

• Opening Scene (36:28):

  • The novel opens shockingly: Lord Crane, in despair, is prevented from killing himself by his manservant, Merrick—an arresting, risky start for a romance.
  • “This book begins with a bang that I’m not sure would be found in 2025.” – Sarah (37:04)

• Setting & Characters:

  • Crane (Lucien) has returned to England after decades in China, carrying trauma and family baggage.
  • Merrick, his fiercely loyal servant, calls in Stephen Day, a magician, to investigate the supernatural danger targeting Crane.
  • Stephen is “pixie-sized, shabby, and hates Crane on sight,” which roots the story in deep, personal history—the Vaudrey family’s abuses ruined Stephen’s family (40:27–42:56).

• Dynamic Tension:

  • The contrast between the two heroes (tall, returned-exile lord and small, powerful magic-user) sets up both sexual tension and narrative conflict.
  • “In order for you to write a bad guy… you have to be willing to go there. And [KJ Charles] is.” – Sarah (41:47)

The Magical Mystery & Gothic Stakes

• Supernatural elements:

  • A cursed object (the “Judas Jack”) attempts to compel Crane into suicide, establishing high-stakes, gothic intrigue.
  • Stephen proves his magical power by saving Crane from the Jack, identifying it as the weapon that killed his father and brother—a mystery that sends the characters to the Vaudrey country estate (43:49).

• Country House Gothic:

  • The ancestral home is full of magpie motifs—creepy portraits, carvings, magpie-filled skies, and an uncanny absence of natural magic (52:27–57:01).

The Magpies & Tattoos

• Magpies as Symbol:
  • The magpie, family crest and curse alike, is everywhere. Crane, scandalously, has SEVEN magpie tattoos on his body.
  • Memorable, steamy moment:
    • “He takes off his shirt, and there are five [magpies] showing… The other two are lower down. Two for joy.” (54:00–55:06)
    • “This is the greatest scene in romance, everyone.” – Jen (53:30)

Romance & Consent: Power, Trauma, and Yearning

• Crafting Tension and Consent:

  • Consent is deeply interrogated—both sexual and magical—especially as Stephen, wounded by Crane’s family, must navigate both attraction and deep emotional wariness (72:42–74:12).
  • The dynamic shifts as Stephen subtly uses (and then is caught using) magical influence (“fluence”) on Crane, prompting fraught discussions of control, autonomy, and trust (64:37–68:18).
    • “Perfect example about how romance novelists use eyes better than anybody else in the whole business.” – Sarah (66:16)

• Social Context (England vs. China):

  • Crane’s time in China is contrasted with the English shame and legal danger around queer relationships—used to explore not only character psychology but colonial context and the safety of love (88:09–89:11).

Unraveling the Mystery

• The Bad Family Legacy:

  • The misdeeds of Crane’s family—rape, financial devastation, violence—are neither minimized nor deflected; the community’s complicity is confronted head-on (75:18–78:46).
    • “You can’t just passively bear evil. You have to try and do something that is right.” – Jen (78:38)

• Ghosts & Haunted Past:

  • Crane and Stephen face the literal ghost of Crane’s monstrous brother, ramping up the gothic stakes and symbolism (69:08–70:44).

Romance, Magic, and HEA (Happily Ever After)

• Sexual and Magical Climax:

  • The book subverts romance conventions by withholding consummation until after the magical battle is won, giving the love scene explosive metaphorical significance:
    • “It’s so great that literally it wakes up the house, like Encanto-style… All the magpies start to… come to life in the paintings, on the walls, in the dishes—and on Crane’s body.” – Sarah (94:13)
  • The sex is transformative—joyous, magical, and healing—blending myth, tattoo symbolism, and fully-earned emotional catharsis.
    • “The two of them are so full of joy in this moment together that it feels like pure, distilled happily ever after.” – Sarah (95:00, 95:12)

• Notable Quotes:

  • “And Stephen’s hand is on Crane’s chest. And a magpie flies from Crane into Stephen’s skin… It is so hot. It’s like the hottest thing I’ve ever read.” – Sarah (94:26)
  • “Justice… these two big ideas just banging into each other for the whole book.” – Jen (90:52)

• Themes:

  • Evil vs. good; legacy, trauma, and found family; joy and liberation powerful enough to heal and restore.

• Series Hook:

  • Follow-up books continue the adventures of Crane and Stephen as a magical, crime-fighting pair, sustaining both the romance and the fantasy plotting.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “If you are a hardcore asshole, please know that Jen said that and not Sarah.”
  – Sarah MacLean [05:09]

• “KJ was one of the first romance writers who was writing queer characters… the books broke into mainstream.”
  – Sarah MacLean [26:53]

• “This book begins with a bang that I’m not sure would be found in 2025.”
  – Sarah MacLean [37:04]

• “There’s a fearlessness to this book that comes with, like—I’m going to leave it all on the table.”
  – Sarah MacLean [41:18]

• “In order for you to write a bad guy… you have to be willing to go there. And she is.”
  – Sarah MacLean [41:46]

• “[The] tattoos… he takes off his shirt, and there are five showing… the other two are lower down. Two for joy.”
  – [54:00–55:06]

• “This is the greatest scene in romance, everyone.”
  – Jen Prokop [53:30]

• “You can’t just passively bear evil. You have to try and do something that is right.”
  – Jen Prokop [78:38]

• “The two of them are so full of joy in this moment together that it feels like pure, distilled happily ever after.”
  – Sarah MacLean [95:00, 95:12]

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Important Timestamps

• 21:16 – Book intro, why the hosts chose The Magpie Lord, context for KJ Charles.
• 26:53 – Charles’s trailblazer status, move into mainstream and writing queer leads.
• 36:28 – Book plot summary begins: Crane’s attempted suicide, introduction of Merrick and Stephen.
• 52:27 – Arrival at country house, magpie symbolism introduced in full.
• 54:00 – Tattoo reveal, “two for joy.”
• 64:37 – Magical “fluence,” issues of consent and autonomy.
• 69:08 – Ghost in the rose garden; stakes escalate.
• 78:38 – Jen’s reflection on real-world evil, complicity, justice.
• 84:59 – Shrinking distance between characters; the slow-burn, gothic build of romance.
• 94:13 – Magical, joyous consummation; magpies come to life.
• 95:12 – Joy as an unusual, precious quality in romance.
• 96:07+ – Series continuation, community feedback, and wrap-up.

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Tone, Language, and Style

• Warm, candid, and irreverent: Sarah and Jen maintain an upbeat, intelligent, and often hilarious tone—balancing critical depth with fangirl exuberance.
• Candid acknowledgment of the book’s harrowing subject matter and content warnings (“there’s stuff happening in their past you might want to know about”).
• Deep respect for genre history, book craft, and KJ Charles's mastery—especially in plotting and emotional resonance.
• No kink shaming; sex-positivity, and celebration of diverse love stories.

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Conclusions & Takeaways

The Magpie Lord is lauded for its brisk, precise plotting, its ferocious gothic mood, its fearless handling of trauma, and—most of all—its emotionally rich, searingly joyful queer romance. KJ Charles’s debut full-length novel marks a pivotal moment in the romance genre, opening new doors for queer love stories and raising the standard for crisp, character-driven storytelling.

Listeners are encouraged to seek out the rest of the series, join the Fated Mates Discord, and revisit the KJ Charles trailblazer episode for more behind-the-scenes insights.

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Links:

• KJ Charles Trailblazer Episode
• Fated Mates Discord & Patreon
• Fated Mates Book Box Info

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End of summary. Suitable for listeners (or readers) new to the episode or the novel, capturing the heart, humor, and critical analysis Fated Mates is known for.

Transcript

[Jennifer Prokup]

There's a lot of snow here, Sarah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, God. Yeah. I've been reading about Chicago. You're like, oh, we don't get that here.

[Jennifer Prokup]

We.

[Sarah MacLean]

I keep wishing for snow. I'm like the New Englander in me. And you must feel this way from Ohio. Like, God, I love a snow day.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Even though I don't get a. I mean, right.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Sure, you can give yourself snow day.

[Sarah MacLean]

That's what everybody. My job is 10ft from my bed, so.

So I have to go to work whether or not there's snow. But, man, I love a, like, big snow.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. It's actually been really pretty.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. I love that first big snow. And we just don't get it as much.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

As we used to know.

[Jennifer Prokup]

So we got maybe like 6 or 8 inches last week, and then it stayed cold, so the snow's still on the ground. And then we probably got three or four inches overnight. So it's really very pretty outside. Fresh snow.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, I do. Because, you know, city snow, sure. You get like, 40 minutes and then.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It turns into, like. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

But it's nice when it refreshes.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Well. And I, like, live close to, like, big parks and, like, sort of open areas and like, the lake. And by work, I work by Lincoln Park. So, I mean, it is. I will say then you kind of be like, all right, this isn't just, you know, terrible black slush on the side of the road. But I will say I see people riding their bikes, and I really am scared for them because it is the thing that's really dangerous. It's like, you know, black ice. Right. So it's like, it melts a little, and then there's just, like, water on the surface of the road or the sidewalk.

[Sarah MacLean]

It gets freezes.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And, you know, and I do. I like, I just. I worry about people. So I hope everyone is being safe.

[Sarah MacLean]

And the driver out your window. Make good choices.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Well, mostly it's. I worry about cars. Right. I mean, these people know the bikers know what they're doing. It's the people recklessly driving around them that scare me. So.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, that is the one thing. I mean, as. As everybody knows, I was in Copenhagen. I was in Denmark and Sweden in the fall, and in Copenhagen especially, it's like a bike city. And like, I would say half something. Something like half of all people, like, commute to work on bikes. And it really just underscores how incredibly car reliant we are because they are so everybody's. It's like bike first there.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And everybody's so safe. And they're all. It seems very scary. And we didn't do it because I was like, I feel like we would cause a bike wreck, like just not knowing all of the rules of this.

But yeah, I just, I wish that more cities were really committed to bike lanes.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

You know, we're getting better and better about that here. But in fact, we have. Do you have city bikes in Chicago?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, yeah. So we have. So for those of you who don't live in cities, there is this like bike share. It's basically like a bike share. And there are all over the city, there are like pods of maybe 10 bikes like locked in. And you just, I think like scan your app and then like city bike to like take your bike to wherever you're going and then drop it in a pod near where you are. We just got a city bike pod at the end of our block, so that is nice.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, there's one at the end of my block too. And I think it's mostly like a summer thing. My. My work is. Is too far to bike too.

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, I think, I mean true, true bikers.

[Jennifer Prokup]

True bikers would be like fine, happy to bike there.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's also freezing.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Well, I mean this time of year, but even. And it's when it's nice. The problem with like biking on the lake is the wind. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

So being blow right over.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. So from like, just from my neighborhood from Hyde park to like Soldier Field is I think maybe, I don't know, like five or seven miles. Right. So you can like bike up there and then like turn around and bike back and it's like, you know, a good ride or whatever. And there was a time, this is like a couple summers ago where I like biked. It was. That's probably like the farthest I'll go just on the lakefront path because then you're like, you get like really hit a lot of pedestrians and stuff. So anyway, I biked up there and it was like, I don't. I don't know how long that would take me. I don't remember. And then like I turned around and I was riding directly into the wind. And it took me essentially like double the time it took me to get up there to get home. And. And you're just like, oh. So I mean, that's the part you like kind of count can't account for is just how intense that all is. Anyway, also now that it's full, freezing. Although as I like to tell people, no matter how cold it Is. I don't care how cold it is. I have never been like. Because I drive up, like short drive to get to work. There's never been a day where I have not seen at least one person out there walking or running.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh yeah, you know what I mean? People are.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, but like, so some hardcore, like minus 20. I don't care. I like how you call them hardcore because it's. Seriously. I'm like, well, I mean the other thing.

[Sarah MacLean]

If you are a hardcore asshole, please know that Jen said that and not Sarah.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Listen, the heart again. I worry about these people because when.

[Sarah MacLean]

It is that cold, be safe with your lungs and your heart and the.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Lake will sweep you away. Like, I'm not even kidding.

[Sarah MacLean]

So the lake does not freeze, right? Because it has a tide.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It can freeze everyone.

[Sarah MacLean]

Welcome to Fated Maze.

I'm Sarah maclean, I read romance novels and I write them. And yeah, we're just interested in bodies.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Of water today and other bodies. I'm Jennifer Prokup, a romance reader and editor. Yes, the lake can freeze along the edges. And it's actually interesting like the. So it has to be really cold for a really long time. And like the surface of the lake will freeze, but it won't freeze.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's not like you can ice fish.

[Jennifer Prokup]

These lakes are too big.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm gonna wait, you guys. So we all know that my. If you listened last week, you know that I have been. My social media has been locked down. So now I really have to like, think carefully about what. At what point I'm gonna get on social media and for how long. It's stressful here. And this week I did see a video that was of a, of a like city council meeting somewhere in Michigan about ice allowing ice fishing on like a local lake. Have you seen this video?

[Jennifer Prokup]

No.

[Sarah MacLean]

And it's like like a classic elderly, gray haired white.

On city council who has the microphone. And he is the like city council councilman. And he is like, my concern about allowing ice fishing on this lake is that once we allow ice fishing, like, where does it end? Because then are we going to have to allow ice huts on the lake? And you know that, you know, if we allow ice fishing and then we end up allowing ice huts, that leads to its natural conclusion. Prostitution.

[Jennifer Prokup]

What?

[Sarah MacLean]

And it's like, how is this. And the like, long lie, the long pause before. And I'm like, what's he gonna say? What is the natural. Like, what's he gonna. Like, are people gonna die? Like, fall through the ice? Like, are we gonna need more emergency services. Apparently it's pro.

And now, listen, everybody. I'm going to find that video and we're going to put it in show.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Notes, because talk about a hardcore asshole, right?

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, and what's amazing is it cuts off, like, kind of right after there. And I'm like, what is the response to this?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Do you think he was joking? Like, and then he was like, no, I'm just kidding.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's emergency. Never told a joke in his life.

I don't know where he is or who he is, but I know he's never told a joke in his life.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Anyway, I will find that.

[Sarah MacLean]

And that leads me to. Eric asked me to do a little housekeeping Today, everyone.

[Jennifer Prokup]

A very natural sex work leads me.

[Sarah MacLean]

To Eric, my husband, telling me to do some housework. Housekeeping. But listen, he asked me to let everybody know that if you have noticed that the chapter images are missing from your podcasting app, we are aware that there is some kind of problem. We've been. And I will say Eric, not we.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, not we.

[Sarah MacLean]

Eric has spent, like, literally daily. He has been in conversation with our podcast host. People try and figure out what the problem is. Apparently, they are showing in some apps, but they're not showing in every app. And we know, and we're trying to fix it because we also know, apparently, basically, like, 1% of all podcasts use that feature.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes. And we've been doing it since the beginning.

[Sarah MacLean]

We've been using it since the beginning. And what's interesting is that at our old. We used to host somewhere else, and at our old place, they were, like, fascinated by us.

And. And now this new place is, like.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Nobody 1% of people.

[Sarah MacLean]

But Eric's really sad about it, and by extension, we care about it. And if you two are sad about it, just know we. He sees you, like, recognizes, like, all.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right, for those of you who are still using Spotify, and I will admit to being in that, like, kind of shameful group, fine. You get, like, Spotify wrapped, right? So at the end of the year, it tells you, like, all this stuff about you. Like, the, you know, humiliating thing this year is it told me how, like, my listening age was 66, and I was like, fuck you. And pardon me, I went through a, like, a Pink Floyd phase earlier in the year, and they were like, bitch.

[Sarah MacLean]

You'Re old in that Dark side of the Moon album. It slaps.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It slaps you into being 66 on Spotify. So just.

But then this part's really funny. Okay, so everybody knows we have a discord and Our Discord is hopping. Right? And I kind of was like, yeah, I'm in it, but I'm in another really big busy Discord.

[Sarah MacLean]

You can join [e-mail] Patreon. Yes.

[Jennifer Prokup]

You can also give it as a gift. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

To somebody.net gift.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay, so here's the part. Apparently Spotify. Not Spotify. Discord now will give you, like your Discord stats. Okay. And I can't remember what it's called. Count Countdown or something, whatever. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Somebody told me I had to look for it. And I was like, I can't find that.

[Jennifer Prokup]

You're like, that's simply not my business. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay.

[Jennifer Prokup]

You have to update your app. I will say that's what did it for me.

[Sarah MacLean]

Is that what the issue is?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. So here's the thing. It tells you, like, okay, you've made however many, you know, like, comments or whatever that puts you in, and then it gives you like a percentage of Discord users. So we have all these people on our Discord that's like. And you know, like, top. I was like 6% top, you know, 6%. And I was like, they just mean like in our Discord, bitch. No, they mean in Discord. No.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I was like, top 6% of commenters in all of Discord or our Discord is.

[Jennifer Prokup]

All these people in our Discord have numbers like mine that are like. And I was just like, oh, God.

[Sarah MacLean]

This is because romance readers are.

[Jennifer Prokup]

They want to talk about.

[Sarah MacLean]

And honestly, unique and special in a lot of ways.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes. I was like, listen, come on. They cannot possibly mean we love you.

[Sarah MacLean]

All very, very much.

[Jennifer Prokup]

They do mean all.

[Sarah MacLean]

I love that the Discord is always hopping. I also just want to give a shout out to the Discord because there's all sorts of like, listening, listen there. This is not just. This is not just a community for romance readers anymore.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

It is a community for romance readers. But there are tags about people who like exercising. There's stuff about. There's like a whole channel on gardening, parenting. Gardening on food. And I will say that I slid into the parenting channel the other day because I think I mentioned this, but I did one of these. I did a couple of like angel gifts.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Things for an organization here in New York City. And I was assigned to 17 year old boys. And I was like, what do I get them? This is like a. You know, I don't know what this is. You might as well have told me I was assigned a blue monkey. Like, I don't know. And so I went on There. And I was like, help. Like what do I give to two 17 year old boys that I don't know? And people were really helpful. And especially because when you're doing one of these angel gift things, you don't know like what a. What a 17 year old boy has or doesn't have. Like you don't know if they have access. They're housed like you don't know sort of.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Any thought of the pieces of the puzzle. And so I just want to shout out that part of the discord because people were really helpful.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, no, it's honestly amazing. But yeah, it's like a full service discord at this point, right? Yeah, but yeah, it just really. I was like, they can't possibly mean like discord. And I was like, oh, they mean discord. So anyway, the other thing that has been really nice for me, I'll mention is I have, I have jumped on the heated rivalry TV show train.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh yeah, you're in it now.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, I mean, and here's my thing, like what I had forgot. So one of the reasons that I have. I. Okay, so I'm a very. I. I would like to watch one hour of TV a week at most. And so in the era of streaming, I am really outside of like the bounds of how most people watch tv and I just like lose track of them really quickly. Even like Bridgerton, which is like something I probably should have really been like on board with. Like it just drops all at once and I get like, I'm like overwhelmed. I can't do it. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

So.

[Jennifer Prokup]

But this, I was like, oh, it's like one episode a week. And then, you know what is really fun is like there's a whole heated rivalry channel. And so it just is kind of like water cooler. I've been calling it Discord Cooler. Right. Where you can actually have that like sort of old school experience of kind of like everybody watching it and then the next day or two just like chit chatting about it and what they thought and what they noticed. And I do think that it is a rewarding way to watch a television show. Right. Like just as opposed to just like gulping it all down all at once. I would like to gulp down a romance novel all at once. But I'm really okay with like sort of the pace of, you know, this show. And so. And I like the sort of pleasant buzz of being like, oh yeah, there'll be another one coming in a week or whatever. So anyway, that has been really fun. But also that's why I was like, no wonder this place is hopping. It's like literally everybody in here is like, top 10% of Discord users. We're just in here all the time chatting. Exactly. It's really fun.

This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Zara Doyle, author of Bianca and Her Wolf.

[Sarah MacLean]

We love a fated mates story here at Fated Mates, and we love it even better if they're resistant to the whole thing. And that is what we've got going on in the fourth of the New York City Werewolves series. Bianca, our heroine, has known that she was Fated mates with Mike, our hero, for more than nine years. Problem is, back in the day, Mike brutally betrayed her and she refuses to forgive him. She refuses to do a lot of things, including feel, feelings and cry. But Mike can always get under her skin. And now that skin is even thinner than usual because her mother has died and he is back in town at her mother's funeral because he's responsible and he's respectable and he knows how to be a good mate. And Bianc doesn't believe it, but she does wish that he didn't smell so good, and she does wish that he didn't look so good. She's busy. She has a job. She has a life. And now she has to clear out her mother's home, which is full of stuff and also memories. And every time she looks outside, Mike's just there, standing, hands in his pockets, waiting for his mate to come to him.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Well, I hope that he continues to suffer, because that's the kind of reader I am. But I'm sure it will work out for these two crazy kids in the end. Keep an eye on your content warnings for this one. Although this is a book in the New York City Werewolf series and a standalone, it is Enemies to Lovers, love triangle age gab. But there's definitely a lot of stuff happening in their past that you might want to know about. So it is available in print, ebook, and with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Zara Doyle for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Sarah MacLean]

Let's talk about the book box, Jen.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay, well, because I got mine and it was awesome. So yes, as you know, everybody, we have a best of 2025 list, right? Our favorite 10 Romances of the year. And our friends at pocketbooks in Lancaster, Pennsylvania have put together a box where you can get eight of those 10 books. Two of the ones that are like sort of self published or not in the box. So you get sort of all eight. You can also do an add on, right? Like any romances they have in the store, they have some of their favorites listed. And so you can just really get like essentially this awesome box. And the total price of the box ends up being like 25% off of like what these books would be in the store. So for eight books it's like a totally great price. And then you can do what I do which is like, you know. So some of them I wanted to keep for like my keeper shelf. Some of them you know, I already had copies of. But like this week it was actually really funny. I brought all like sort of some of the extras and then like other books that I had that I wasn't gonna keep to work and I took a picture of and then I sent it out to like my romance reading friends at school with like a little like. And then I did like a little like come and get em and then for each book I did like a little like here, here's what this one's about. Just like a sentence and it was so fun and like by the end of the day all the books were gone and it was really great.

[Sarah MacLean]

That is really, really fun.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, it was really fun. And so you know, then I got to sort of like, you know, talk it up to people and you know, give them. And then I'm also putting like my romance reader friends at work in contact with each other because one woman who was her name Sarah, she actually is one of the teacher shoes at Faded Mates Live. My other friend Elizabeth last summer she was really interested in Anne of Avenue A which I had what a copy of and was like giving away because it was great and I loved it. But I was also like it's a Christmas book, let me share the love. And she was really interested in that one because it was a, you know, a Jane Austen retelling. And so I was like well just reply to everybody and be like who has this one when you're done with it, like pass it back to me. So anyway, this book box at Pocketbooks is terrific and I just think it's a great way for you to get like books, these awesome books that you know, maybe you have heard us talk about. And it's a great gift for yourself or for others or even a great gift that you can like split up. Keep some of them, give some of them away. We really hope that you will check it out. They have sold quite a few of them. But they do still have. Have some left in stock. And given that it's what, December, what, 9th or 10th or whatever today, you know, this should be hopefully time for you to get it for your cozy winter reading plans.

[Sarah MacLean]

That's right. I always wrap a bunch of them up and put them in my little free library, like, as a. So fun, you know.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Blind date with a book thing this holiday. And I always feel like they go. Well, they go right away. And often, I think, are people getting. Taking them out of here and then, like, passing them on as gifts and to other people, in which case, I'll bet it.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Good job.

[Sarah MacLean]

Have a great time, everybody.

[Jennifer Prokup]

What do I care?

[Sarah MacLean]

I always imagine, like, I wonder if there's, like, in my head, it's always a boy headed by, and they realize they, like, didn't pick up a gift for their mom.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And then they're like, here, Son of the morning. I'm not sure what it's about, Mom.

[Sarah MacLean]

And here I am just delivering them.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Amazing. That's awesome. I love it. Oh, yeah. Just please check out Pocketbooks and you can look at that list and see what's on it. If you go to Faded Mates, best of. And then I think there's a link there to that will take you to Pocketbooks. And then you can just click on. On their site. I think it's really easy to navigate to. I think it's like book boxes or something, so.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, that's that. We've now we've gotten through, you know, we've talked about bodies of water. We've talked about the chapter images, we've.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Talked about the book box. So, yeah, last time we're gonna stop talking about bodies of water and start talking about birds.

[Sarah MacLean]

Birds. Who could have imagined that birds would be so sexy? We'll get there.

[Jennifer Prokup]

We'll get there. It's like wildlife time. Did you.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, my God, you guys.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Last week, when were you talking about squirrels and I sent you and Eric that video of that squirrel. You didn't even reply.

[Sarah MacLean]

Wait, really?

[Jennifer Prokup]

I don't think I got it.

[Sarah MacLean]

Was I able to get onto it?

[Jennifer Prokup]

I have no idea. Is it possible you sent it while I was. I was walking. Oh, I don't know. No, it's like in your text. So anyway, I was walking down the street. Everybody, there's a squirrel that. I was like.

City squirrels have zero fear.

[Sarah MacLean]

New listeners are like, what the fuck is this podcast?

[Jennifer Prokup]

You know what? They understand that in December, we're a bit distracted. Anyway, so today we will be talking not about squirrels, but about birds. And that is because we are reading the Magpie Lord by K.J. charles. Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And now listen, Jen, tell me, have you read this book before?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay, I have not. In fact, this. Or let me tell you, this is one of those books where you're like, I haven't read this book. And so you go to buy it and Amazon is like, you bought this book in 2023.

[Sarah MacLean]

Congratulations. You've owned this book for years.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes, lifetime. So I have read quite a few of KJ Travel's books, but you know what? I have not read this one. And so I was really excited to read this. And this is like you were saying before we got started, like, one of Adrianna's favorites.

And so it's always really fun to, like, read, you know, I mean, obviously reading KJ Charles is always like, bless the. Bless the authors with the big, big backlists. Right? Because then you just like, dive into, like, a favorite author. Like, you know, there's something out there you're gonna read and love. But it's always also interesting to be like, why is this someone's favorite? Like, what are the, like, things about it that make it so great? Now here is my question, and I don't know if you looked this up. Is this KJ's first book?

[Sarah MacLean]

Let me look that up. I think it is possible because this book is much older than I thought it was. Yes, it is for sure her most popular book. Like, it is the book everybody talks about.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay, now everybody should know that K.J.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Charles.

[Sarah MacLean]

Was a trailblazer for us. We've had her on the show to talk about her own life in romance and how, like, how she came to write. She is an editor, which is something that I think is important to. To sort of think about as you're going through this. She used to work for Mills and Boone. So I think all of that sort of feeds into this, like, what this book actually feels like as you're reading it. The answer to you is, I believe this is her first full length book. She wrote. It looks like a ton of shorts beforehand, but this looks like it's the first full length. And it's really interesting because I have never read this and I hadn't read it because I think in my head I was like, I don't know. I knew that it was sort of a series. I knew it. There were, you know, a number of books that were, like, related to it. And I think in my head I was just like, I don't. I was always like, oh, I don't have time to, like, start going down this path.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Even though I have read almost all of KJ's other books. So, like, I don't know how it is that I missed this, but I did.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It's interesting because looking at this, I'm like, this is 2013. Yep. I mean, and so I know how I missed it, because I really did not. Well, I guess that's not true. I had a baby. Yeah, you. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

That'll do it, everybody.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. And well, also, I think, like, here's what I would say is I had a Kindle at that point, but I did not have social media. And so I would say that I was very much still reading essentially, like, what I could find in a bookstore. And then I was replicating those searches on my Kindle, right? So I could walk into a bookstore and see, you know, there's no reason I wouldn't have. I love a historical, right? And I would have been reading a lot of historicals at that time. But what I would be doing is, like, going into Barnes and Noble or whatever, because that was probably the only place you could buy a romance in a store at that point. And I'd be like, okay, well, here are the authors I see. And then I would sort of buy some books, but also those would be the authors I was reading. And so, you know, the ecosystem of, like, what happened to my reading when I got on social media, when I got on Twitter, right. It was life changing just for, like, the depth and the breadth and, like, you know what I mean? The discoverability of it shot through the roof for me. So I think, for me, it's really obvious why I was. I had no idea that this had happened. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

I also feel like I wasn't reading a ton of indie or, like, small press at the time. Like, you know, by the time in 2013, I had only been publishing for a couple of years. And it. I think it was maybe 2014 or 2015 when I was like, I'm not reading diversely enough, like, widely enough.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so I like, really, that was the year where I sat down and I really shifted the way I read to being extremely intentional that year. And I did a whole thing where I was like, for every CIS het white romance, I'm gonna read something that is not, you know, like, not. And that work.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Like, the.

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, it doesn't even now I look back on it, it never felt like work, but it was like that sort of intentionality in reading, which is something that we talk about all the time. Whenever anybody says, like, well, it's. I don't think about that. I just, like, read the book that shows up in front of me and it's like, yep, that's why you have to think about that. Like, you in or unless you're reading with intention, you're not going to find, you know, a lot of these books. And I think KJ was one of the first.

Romance writers who was writing queer characters. And, like, the books broke into mainstream. By 2014, 2015, we all knew who KJ was, and, like, we were all looking at her books and reading them.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

But I also think this is one of those situations where, you know, her craft is so tight and her ability to structure a plot is so tight. And, I mean, I was reading this, and it's really interesting because I was reading this on either and, you know, it shows you the percentage on the bottom. And there's, like, 10% of this book that I didn't know because I, like, was reading as I was going. But, like, this book ends at 90% on your e reading experience. And it was really funny because I kept sort of, like, turning points were happening. And I was like, this is really interesting. Like, this feels like it's happening, like, kind of later than it should.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Like, yeah, right.

[Sarah MacLean]

There was a percent. I was like, this is so fascinating. Like, how is this structured? Where's she gonna go? Like, with 10 more? Like, 10% more. And then it ended, and I was like, oh, no, she's perfect. She hit every beat exactly where it was supposed to be. Like, I feel like this is a masterclass in how to structure a story. And you said it to me because you read this before I did. And you were like, sarah, it's so fast.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It's fast.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I didn't know also. And although I do know she was an editor for Mills and Boone, which is everybody, the original Harlequin for of categories. And so, like, this is category length, and it is paced like a category, like a bullet from a gun. Boom.

[Jennifer Prokup]

So it's just. It's funny. I'm looking at it on Goodreads. So it was Originally published in 2013, and it was published by Sam Haim. No. Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

This was the. The, like, golden age of small press.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay. So I. I can't remember when I, like, sort of joined. Actually, I can. I. I would say that I probably joined Romance Twitter in probably 2016. Ish.

So. And, like, all of a sudden, like, I said, the whole, like, world was like. So I was like, whoa. Right? Like, this is all in, completely insane. Everything that is happening. Right. And what I discovered is that there are like three, Several of these, like, romance small presses that were publishing really interesting books, and Sam Pain was one of them. And the thing about these books, right, is that they were doing, like, romance and erotica. They were doing, you know, like, really interesting. I mean, like, kind of paranormally. Right. Like fantasy kind of books like that. And, you know, but like, also essentially, they. My understanding is essentially just like, shut it down. Like, boom.

[Sarah MacLean]

It was a shock. I don't want to tell a story that isn't true, but, like, there is. There are a lot of these presses. Like, we're. They were dominating at the very beginning.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, it was like, you know, everybody always says, like, well, it's not 2012 anymore. Like, what we mean by that is, like, in 2012, like, there was so little.

It felt like. It felt like there was so much indie available to you. Like, there was so much e. Only so much new content on the devices, but it was a fraction of a percent of what there is now.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right, right. So every book, like, if you were a writer who could publish. Who could write. Who could write one and who could publish quickly, like, you can make a ton of money.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And. But it was still before indie publishing. Like, author to market. Yes. Directly to market, had really, really exploded. And I mean, there were some people who were doing it, right. Like, Barbara Friedley was doing it, Bella Andre was doing it. Like, I could name probably 10 people who were self publishing in, like, the truest sense of the word. But a lot of these small presses were had, like, were the middleman. Like, you would still write and you would deliver to one of these small presses and they would handle everything, publish it, and then you would make more money on the back end. Like, you didn't make an advance, but you make more money on the back end. And then I just think the gates opened and people started to realize, like, I can do it myself. Like, I don't, you know. You know, writers who were very fast and were, like, really business minded, understood they didn't need that middleman. And then these small presses weren't able. They had no. They had no ability to sustain their business model.

And a lot of them, and I don't know if this is true about Samhain, but a lot of them, like, stopped paying authors.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Like Dream Spinner.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, it was bad news when all of these started sort of packing up shop.

[Jennifer Prokup]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Alexandra Kate Author of Storm of Fire so Scarlet was.

[Sarah MacLean]

Locked inside a tower as a young girl. It's giving Rapunzel forced to live in isolation until a visit with the devil changed everything. And suddenly fire begins to shoot from her fingertips and she has burned down her entire tower and is forced to accept a devil's bargain that she that brings her to be introduced to an entirely new world that she never believed existed. She's in Hell. And soon she begins to realize that there is far more to her story than she was told. Hel has been waiting for Scarlet's return ever since she was stolen away and hidden from the devil himself. There is a war coming and Scarlet. Scarlet is at the center of it. And as more of her magic comes to light and the promise of Hell's dragons is revealed to her, Scarlet is forced to learn her role and decide if she is willing to take it on. But a lifetime of solitude in a tower has shaped her to be defiant, miserable and overwhelmed. And even if it means defying the devil himself and fighting against everything, she was told to believe she is going to do this her way. This is a romance. It's a hate Hades and Persephone retelling. And Scarlet's hero Lucien proves to be pretty sexy and great partner in whatever crime they get up to.

[Jennifer Prokup]

So if you would like to check out this really fun Romanasy that mashes up a Hades and Persephone retelling with Rapunzel, then you should check out Storm of Fire. It is available in ebook or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Alexander Cate for sponsoring this week's episode.

The Magpie Lord was the first in like a series that had the same characters and then they're like, like kind of a world, right? So like quite a few of KJ's books were with Sam Hain. And it's really interesting because what it says like in the Publisher's Weekly kind of announcement is that the like, like essentially the publisher said that Ebit ebook sales had been really declining steadily over the past couple years and attempts to renegotiate terms with Amazon for better placement on their site have been met with silence. And so this is it, right? As we all know, it's like, right, like if you can't, if they're not gonna put your book, the books in front of people, you know, in the like those algorithmic kind of like, you know, other people who Read this liked or whatever, then it's really hard to, like, find an audience. And so, you know, essentially, they shut down and authors got their rights back. And, you know, so there was probably, like, a transition point where you couldn't get the books. And it's just really fascinating to think, like, I will be honest. And, I mean, we had KJ on, but we've had a lot of people on. So I'm sorry if KJ probably talked about this. Like, I really don't think I had really, like, realized the extent at which, like, she in particular, got caught up in sort of that business, I guess. I'll say. So isn't that really interesting? Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. And they had Maya Banks, they had Lorelei James, they had Vivian Arend. Like, they had names, like, people who you. Who, if you were reading romance at the time, you were reading their books. And I also think, like, listen, KJ clearly knows the score. She knows the way the industry works. Just five minutes of our Trailblazer interview. And, you know, like, this is not a person who. Like, this is a person who. Who chose a small press knowing, like, how it would work. And, I mean, I think Sammy did very well for her in the sense that, like, we all knew who she was, which, you know, at the time was. Is. I mean, frankly, at any time is amazing.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

So.

The book itself. Let's talk about.

Talk about this book. So, okay, we have Crane, our hero, one of our heroes, and then we have Stephen Day, our other hero. And the book begins. I think one of the things that I. I was sort of instantly surprised. Slash, startled slash, like, delighted by, is this book begins with a bang. And it begins with a bang that I'm not sure is. Easel would be found in 2025.

[Jennifer Prokup]

No, a lot of things in this book.

[Sarah MacLean]

A lot of the things in this book are.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, I think it's right. So basically what we get is Crane is trying to kill himself, and his. His manservant Maric essentially, like, stops him. And what we really quickly realize is that there is some sort of, like, bad magic around Crane. And he and Merrick had spent 20 years in China, has had recently returned to England. And what happened is Merrick is basically like, we gotta get a shaman up in here. I mean, there's something really fucking wrong. And I was like, what is happening? Well, right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Interesting, right? Because it feels instantly, like, at the very beginning, all I could think, you know, it's very difficult for me to, like, escape. Like, intense.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, when. When I'm reading and so it's a. I had this moment where I was like, are you. Like, is this when they were like, it's magic. Like, it's the shaman. Like, we have to find a shaman. I was like, is this for real? Like, is magic real in this world? Like, is there. There's sort of this big question mark in your head. Reader.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, what am I getting into here? Because I also, by the way, everybody do not read cover copy. Which is just chaos reading. I know, but like, why should I worry about that? That's not my business.

[Jennifer Prokup]

My job is to just read this book.

[Sarah MacLean]

Exactly. This author had. Has a story to tell me and I don't need marketing involved. So.

But the. So there is this sort of question of like. And Merrick kind of has the. The man servant. So Crane and his man servant have been in China for a long time.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Like decade. Two, like 20 years. Really. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And while they're like, they've been trading, like, Crane has inherited a title after his. What we know is an awful father and an awful brother have both died. But we don't know how. Right. When all of this starts. We just know, like, he sort of returned to England. He's in the family home and he has tried to kill himself.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And we know we're sort of. It's. You know, the POV here is so close. Like, you're really just like. So you're glued to his consciousness.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And you hear sort of the. The man servant sort of say like, not again, not again. And you're like, what's about to happen? Like, where are we? You feel dropped directly into like, just chaos.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so. Yes, he goes. And then it's like, there's magic. We need to find a shaman. We can't find a shaman because we're not where shamanism happens.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he's like, nope. The man servant is like, no problem. I think I know who I can. I know a guy.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. That is your job to know a guy. He's a factotum. Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so he goes off, he gets a guy. The guy comes in.

And.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

Also important for you to know Crane is name is destiny. He's like the tallest person who has ever.

[Jennifer Prokup]

He's all legs. I mean, at one point it looked.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like Crane, like Ichabod.

[Jennifer Prokup]

He like, he was all legs, right?

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, Crane, like the bird.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so he's like very tall and in comes this like, kind of pixie sized, like, leprechaun. Leprechaun.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Like, yeah. And he's. Okay, so Stephen Day is like, you know, he's literally, I think, 5ft tall. He's very thin. He's, like, wan and pale. You know, his snaggletooth. Yeah, Fox. His clothes are, like, really shabby. And also, this motherfucker hates Crane. And Crane's like, we have never met. What could I have possibly done to make you look at me like, I am that terrible? And this is when we get the background around Crane's.

Dastardly family.

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, fucking terrible.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Honestly, at points in this book, I was like, this is so evil that if I was not living in the time of this second Trump administration, I would be like, too much. But I was like, feels reasonable.

[Sarah MacLean]

There's a fearlessness to this book that I think comes with. And this is why I'm not surprised that it's her first book, because there's a fearlessness to this book that comes with, like. Like, I'm gonna leave it all on the table.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And the things that she makes, the bad. Like when KJ Charles puts a bad guy on the page.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

You could be guaranteed this is going to be a bad guy.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And in order for you to write a bad guy, and this is a problem that a lot of us have, myself included, you have to be willing to go there.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And she is. So we discover that. Oh, we discover that Steven has had. Had this, like, wonderful family. And Crane, they came up against Crane's family, Crane's father. Father.

And. And where everybody always had, like, cowed to this terrible man and, like, let him have whatever he wanted. Steven's father stood up to him and couldn't win, like. And he was ruined. He, like, fight. Was financially ruined. Crane's brother, who is just a fucking monster.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Hector.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, Hector comes in and he, like, to punish the. To punish Steven's family even more, rapes Steven's mother. She. She gets ill. There's no money for medicine. She dies. And then his father, like, dies of a broken heart. Right? And Steven is there, kind of in and with the intent that he's going to say, no, I'm not gonna help you.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Fuck off. Right?

[Sarah MacLean]

But he gets there and it's a romance, and he's like, actually, I am gonna help you because this magic is real bad.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, whatever is in here is bad. And he keeps saying. He shows up the house and he keeps saying, like, there's nothing. He can't feel the house. Like, he's like, there's no.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Well, wait, so you're. Wait, because you're still. We're still in London. Hold on. You're a little ahead of yourself. So we're still in London. And what he says is, something here is trying to kill you. And he realizes that this thing, this Judas Jack, has been brought back from the family home, which is right where then they're, like, gonna have to go. Like, essentially the source of the magic has been transported back from the family home. And so in order to figure this out, we're gonna have to go to wherever that is. Right, Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

So before we get there, this is Judas Jack. Just explain what that is.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Well, this is the part that's, like, really interesting and where, like, Stephen becomes kind of commanding. Right? So here you're like. And I think this is also. I. I want to, like, talk about, like. So in. In physical stature, they are, like, night and day, right? And, you know, all of the ways in which Steven looks kind of weak and powerless, but when it comes to dealing with. With this thing, right, that is like, emanating evil. And the way that Judas Jack works on Crane, right, is that essentially it is almost like infiltrating his mind, making him, like, think these sort of, like, evil thoughts that then he directs it himself. And the only way you can escape them then is to kill yourself. So this is like this really clever, but an evil item that is, like, if placed in the home and it has, like, a reaction, it's not going to affect everyone in the home in this case. And it takes even a while to figure it out, right? It's impacting just Crane, because he is, like, a member of the family. It's aimed at him. It's like DNA coded, essentially. Blood coded, I think, to him and his family. So anyway, he figures out that he has to, like, destroy this thing. And there's like, this great scene where he, like, tells Marek, like, basically. Basically, like, you hold him down and don't let him go because it's gonna be really painful and he's gonna want to fight you.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. He says, like, break his arms if you have to. Yes.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Break his. I was like, whoa, it is so about to happen.

[Sarah MacLean]

Exactly, right.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And so then he sort of says, right, like, he, you know, he kind of destroys this thing. And then he very also kind of quickly is like, where did it come from? And then he's like, this is what killed your father and your brother, right? Like, they weren't accidents or suicides. Like this thing that you are the third victim, essentially. And so what it is, is he has to figure out. He's basically like, we're gonna have to go, right? And Steven. The other thing that Steven is able to do at this moment is we kind of then, like, switch into his. His point of view is that he can, like, tap into something that he calls the etheric flow, right? Which is just the idea that, like, magic is in the world. There is, like, sort of their energetic or energy properties in everything. And the way that he, as a magician is able to, like, restore himself is essentially to, like, tap into this thing. So he had used some magic to destroy this Jack, and now he has to, like, essentially, like, restore himself. And we find out later that, like, one of the reasons he's so pale and wan and thin is that, like, a couple months earlier, he had literally, like, drained himself dry, like, to the bone. To the bone. Like, in. Almost to the point of death, in order to fight off, like, you know, some other evil. And so, you know, it just takes a really long time to sort of for a magician to essentially restore, like, their power. And one of the reasons that Steven is so powerful is that he can tap into this flow. Other magicians have to figure out other ways to restore their magic.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right?

[Jennifer Prokup]

So anyway, they're like, okay, you know, he's like, we gotta go. And the other thing that then kind of comes up here is, you know, he's. Steven is very curious and interested in Crane and Merrick, who speak. He, like. It's called Shanghai is in the right. They were in Shanghai. He speak. They speak this other language, essentially. It's a way that, like, no. So no one else can understand them. He's like, how can you. Your father and your brother were so evil. How can you not have been involved in that? And Crane's like, I have been out of the country for 20 years. I love.

[Sarah MacLean]

He's like, I hated them. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I hated them. They hated me. I got gone, and I didn't come back till I knew they were dead. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

There's one point where he says to somebody, like, if my father was still alive, I'd still be 5,000 miles away.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, yeah, so there's that.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by 1001 Dark Knights.

[Jennifer Prokup]

1001 Dark Knights has been a really big part of my, like, romance reading for a really long time. Because what they do is they find great novellas, often by some of my favorite authors in series where, like, essentially they're not gonna, like, publish a whole other book. This is just a novella about a side character I really love. So, for example, Kylie Scott has some stage dive novellas in the 1001 series. And 1001 Dark Knights is shuttering this part, this imprint after this year. Now the rights are gonna revert back to the authors, but if you do want them in this print form, now is the time to get them. So along with maybe pot novellas you really loved in series you like, they also have all of these great bundles that you've been hearing ad for all year. For example, there's a Midnight Myths and Magic, a paranormal romance collection that has a Gina Show Walter novella in it. There's, you know, a Uniformed Heroes and Bodyguards collection that has a, like a Kylie Scott book, the one of the stage dive books. And so this is just a chance for you to do your last minute, like filling out your collection of some of these favorite books in series series that you might like. And if you go to their website, they have everything that's available and then you can go to your preferred platform to buy them. This is just a great opportunity to be rounding out your print collection of your favorite 1001 Dark Knights books.

[Sarah MacLean]

We're very sorry to see 1001 Dark Nights go, but we're extremely excited about whatever comes next from the people at Blue Box Press. And if you are interested in taking a look at the long, long list of thousand one Dark Knights books that are available through the end of the year, you can go to 1001darknights.com and check out the whole list. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks as always to 1001 Dark Knights and to Blue Box Press for sponsoring this week's episode.

So they head off.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

To the country, which is, honest to God, that's all K.J. charles wants to do. In all of her books, everybody goes to the country, right. There's a house. Like you want to know if you're in a K.J. charles book, is there a country house? Because if there isn't, are you? Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And it's. And like that. It's like it is really true. Like it's a fascinating dichotomy like where who are you when you are in these different places. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And the country also it means something, right? Like you, you're an English teacher, Jen, you know, will like nature means something. A change it. Like setting a book in nature. Right. Is doing a thing. So they head off to the country to sort of figure it all out. Like, what's it gonna be up there? Who was it? And the big question is, who was it? Because what we know is.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Do we know at this point that. Well, he knows the father and the. And the brother have killed themselves?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes. I. Here's what he. I mean, he's like, it was a warlock, essentially. Only someone who's practitioning in the basest.

[Sarah MacLean]

Kind of evil magic, bad magic, could.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Have made this thing. And I.

[Sarah MacLean]

And.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And we don't. And it's really interesting. We don't quite know why. Like, what. At this point you're just like, well, Steven's like, you aren't safe till we figure it out. But what we find out later is that Steven essentially is like the magical sheriff.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. He find this doesn't come. This is a turning point moment. Right.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I like.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's interesting because we don't find this out until the end of act one.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so. And I think this is structurally, I know that, like a lot of authors listen to these episodes, these deep dives, and structurally, this is an interesting choice. Right, so you. So the basic plot of this book at like, the plot of Act 1 of this book is who did it?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right. Like, who made this bad little, like ju. Like juju, essentially.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And how are we going to stop them from doing it again? So they've destroyed the item. The. The.

[Jennifer Prokup]

The. The jack.

[Sarah MacLean]

Jack.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then they've headed off to the country, and when they get to the country, in come the birds. So the book is called the Magpie Lord and it begins with a magpie rhyme. And then you get there and you're like. And then they get to the country and Stephen is like, holy, there are so many birds here.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay, I would like to stop and talk about this at length. Okay, so Crane has a. Okay, first of all, it's really funny. Crane has all these magpie tattoos and there's.

[Sarah MacLean]

We don't know. Wait, now you've ruined it.

[Jennifer Prokup]

No, he knows. He knows about it because at the beginning he knows about the. Only about the tattoos because they're like ripping his clothes off. Because, like. Because the jack or whatever.

[Sarah MacLean]

Magpie feather. There's a magpie feather in the jack.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he says, why magpies? And he's like, magpies are the symbol of the family. Yes. Well, let's talk about this. Okay, we have to go back to when he takes his shirt off.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

This is a romance podcast, Jen.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Sorry. We have to go back to the podcast.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay, wait, we're just going back before everybody pause. We're gonna get to the house. But for some reason I thought that happened at the house, but apparently it didn't. And so. So he's like, can you think of other. He's like, what about the magpies? Steven says. And Crane is like, oh, well, it's the family bird, and it's on the crest, and it's in the house, and it's, you know, on the signet ring, and it's, you know, all the magpies kind of everywhere. It's like the. It's. It's what we are. And Steven's like, okay, cool. Anything else? And he's like, I mean, the tattoos, I guess now Sarah comes online.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Of course you did. I knew as soon as I read this, I was like, this is where Sarah is going to be deeply invested.

[Sarah MacLean]

What tattoos? Please clarify. And Stephen also is like, what?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Well, because, again, this is not. This is whatever year, right? Like, and, you know, Steven's even like, you know, these are common. Only sailors had them. English lords that are earls do not have tattoos. And he's basically like.

[Sarah MacLean]

So he takes off his shirt. He's like, yeah, I'll show him to you.

[Jennifer Prokup]

This is the greatest scene in romance, Everyone, his shirt.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he's got five magpies tattooed across his chest. And apparently, like, over the course of two years, he had this done. And he says. And there's like, this question. No, he. So Stephen, before he takes off his shirt, there's like this question, like, how many does he have? And he says, I have seven. And he takes off his shirt, and there are five showing. And Steven says, I only see five. And now listen, the magpie rhyme begins. One for sorrow, two for joy.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, right?

[Sarah MacLean]

And he says, the other two are lowered down. Two for joy.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I have highlighted this because I was screaming.

Oh, boy.

[Sarah MacLean]

So. And then this is where we are, right? Like, and at this point, you're like, here is a person who I am safe with. This is an author who's gonna give me a great time. Yes, for joy.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right? So also, like, a really funny joke at some point gets made where he's basically, like, really kind of fucking weird. Your family name's Crane and you're why, Right? Like, why are there magpies?

[Sarah MacLean]

Exactly. Has it never occurred to you?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Like.

What'S happening here? So anyway, no, it is amazing, but no. Then they travel to the house, and the magpie thing gets real weird. Not only the actual literal birds everywhere, which I was like. I would like to just, like, rewind back in time and go back to our conversation with KJ Charles and be like, had you been watching the birds? What was happening in Your brain. And what happens is. But also everywhere in the house. It's like magpie carvings. All of the dishes. All of the dishes. Like, everything's got. It's like, it's magpie everywhere.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. And. And they're in all the portraits.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

They're like, there's a. And then on top of it, like, there's. And so they get to this house, and Stephen is, like, taking it there. He's getting the tour of the house, and he's like, I feel this house is bad.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Empty. Like.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Not just empty of, like, people, but empty of, like, soul. Like, there's just nothing here. It has. And he can't keep saying through the whole book. He's like, there's no power in the house.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right? It's dead.

[Sarah MacLean]

Which is a problem for Steven because he draws power. Like, his magic comes from drawing power from all around him. Right? Like. And also, remember, we're in the country, right? Like, we're in nature. He should be able to draw more power.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Correct. And instead.

[Sarah MacLean]

But it's just an. It's a vacuum of power. Except there are so many fucking birds. And to the point where, like, he's even in a room, and it's, like, dark, and he. And it's not dark outside. And he looks up and there's, like, a massive skylight. And he's like, like, if that were clean, this room would be light. And then there's, like, a plop. And, like, the magpies just up there.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It's, like, constantly crazy, right? He's.

[Sarah MacLean]

And. And Crane, who's a big dummy, is like, I don't know. These dumb magpies.

[Jennifer Prokup]

That's weird. What are you going to do?

[Sarah MacLean]

It's never occurred to this man. And then they're in the portrait gallery, and he's like, that's, you know, my dad. That's my grandfather. That's about. He's, like, going back, back, back, back, back. That's my great grandfather. And suddenly Steven is like, wait, I know this man.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It's great, everybody. This book's.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he's like, I know this man. And Crane's response is, well, we look the same.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. And then he puts it together that multi generations ago, this man was known. Was a magician, known as the Magpie Lord. And he ultimately, like, inherited a new title, Crane, and, like, passed it on. And so, essentially, there's this, like, deep magic in the Crane family line and.

[Jennifer Prokup]

In the household and in everything, right?

[Sarah MacLean]

So. And, like, the Magpie Lord, you. Like, it's known that like the magpies themselves, like, were connect. They were his familiar.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so here we are in this place and of course, Crane asks the exact question that we ask at the moment. Perfect writing, right? Which is, does that mean Crane is magic? Right? And he's like, it means maybe. Maybe, but it doesn't. Like, maybe not. Like, it's just. It's not a family thing. Like, but here we are now where this kind of like big question starts to be asked about, like, you know, where is Steven gonna get magic? And then of course, in your head as a romance reader, you're like, I know where he's gonna get magic. Well, now it's interesting because, like, it doesn't happen that way. She doesn't. She could have taken this easy way out where suddenly they discover like, well, when they bone.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, then there's magic, right? But she doesn't.

This week's episode of Fademates is sponsored by Lumi Gummies. Consistent, mellow and super delicious, Lumi Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of day distressor a midday mood boost or help getting the best sleep ever, Lumi Gummies has a strain that's right for.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay, so everybody, I as you know, have went to a concert this week. I went to see Paul McCartney. And I would just like to say that I think that is like a perfect situation where you would like to have like a bit of a gummy, right? Like you're just enjoying all of the psychedelic vibes of Sir Paul.

[Sarah MacLean]

And Paul McCartney definitely has a gummy before he goes on stage.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I mean, of course. And so did. So did I in the audience. And you know what I just think like at the as in the holidays in particular, right? Like there's just so much going on and sometimes times it's just nice to like be able to like be ever so mellow as you approach your holiday tasks or approach your concert going experience. So it was just like kind of perfect and great. Highly recommend.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, if you would like to experience Paul McCartney in a similar way, then we suggest that you find your way to lumigummies.com that's L U M I gummies.com and use the code faded ma mates for 30 off your first order. Lumi Gummies are available nationwide. And again, that's lumigummies.com code faded mates lumigummies.com code faded Mates thanks to Lumigummies for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Jennifer Prokup]

This book has so much plot, so much, really deeply interesting plot where, like, things are happening and you're just getting, like, pits and pieces of information at the exact right time to, like, sort of clear up things but leave you wondering about what's next. Right. So all of the plot in the meantime, what you're seeing is that.

Crane and Steven are sort of, like, circling around in a really interesting way between essentially, like. I mean, it's like a real power dynamic. Right. So Crane is. Right, like, physically more powerful. He is a lord more powerful. He. Right. Like, like. But there's also all these ways in which Steven is so much more like. I don't know, there's something happening once they're on. Like, the case of trying to figure this out where he's, like, really kind of in his element of, like, sort of. We are now dealing with things that you don't understand. But I do understand. And he's starting to realize once he sees that, like, the portrait, like, whatever it is that's happening here is way bigger than someone just wanting to kill your evil brother and father. Like, so there's no way that this isn't, like, important or meaningful. And what we start to understand, too, is that. So, okay, remember I said that, like, you can get your good magic from, like, the ether, but if you can't do that, if you're not a magician, you can do that. The other thing you can do is tap into people. And so this is like, sort of like when this, like, kind of starts to be unre. Like, revealed. But this is essentially the very definition of a warlock. Right. If you're using other people, like, people. People have power in them. And so if you can't draw power from the ether, and instead you convince yourself that it's okay to draw power from people, that this is like the. You know, this is being a warlock, and this is like the evil. And Steven's job, like, his magical job essentially is to, like, find people who are using evil magic and stop them.

[Sarah MacLean]

And we discover this once he's found the creator for.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Of the Jack.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right, Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

So he. They head out, they find the, like, witch who had put together this, like, wooden, you know, bad. Bad magic thing that was killing the. The family line here. And she's dead. They find that she is dead. But they do discover, like, he goes in, he's like, this is the wood she used. He knows, like, kind of right. It was her.

And then it sort of has this kind of quiet moment. There's a quiet beat, right? This is the end of the second act. There's sort of Crane puts it together that he's more than just like a normal magician. He's now he's like a magician cop.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I can't remember the name of it. Like a gesticular or something.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, like he's like his. He's basically out there to stop bad.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I'll be really honest. I saw this word and I was like, like, I bet if I was British I would just be able to like say this word. But because I'm American, I was like, I don't know what that means.

[Sarah MacLean]

That's not your business. That's not my business.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Sorry everybody.

[Sarah MacLean]

So he. He's out there, right? So then there. And this is the end of. Of. Of Act 1. And you think to yourself as a reader, you're like, well, hang on a second. Like the mystery is sort of solved.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right?

[Sarah MacLean]

Exactly.

[Jennifer Prokup]

So smart.

[Sarah MacLean]

So where do we go from here? So we amp it up and like it's amped up slightly because now it doesn't feel quite. You're not really sure like what comes next.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. And so we get two really interesting kind of scenes in a row back at the house. And one of them is essentially that like Steven uses his magic to essentially like make Crane go away.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, Crane. Crane. Cuz it's listen. But it's actually, it's more intense.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Oh yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Because Crane realizes sort of right after they've solved the problem, he's like con. He's like. He's like high on the. He's not like, he's not like drugged or anything, but he's like, hi. I'm like, okay. That we've solved the problem. Right? And he's like. And they're like out in nature. And he's like.

I know you want me. He's like, I know you want me. Like, why don't you come here and let me have you? And instead of going.

Steven is like, you don't want me. I'm boring. You're not interested in me at all. Like we've never interacted. Like we've never interacted in any form of interesting way. And now you want to walk away from me. And Crane is like, okay, cool. Yeah, I do want to walk away from you.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay, here's my question to you. At that moment, did you like immediately clock that something had happened or did.

[Sarah MacLean]

It take you a minute that something had happened?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Like, I mean like at like it's a very subtle in the. You don't.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh. That he was trying to use Crane. Like he was trying to influence Crane. Yes, yes. Because his eyes. His pupils dilate.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes, right, exactly. But it's very subtle, everyone.

[Sarah MacLean]

If you're reading too fast, fast, you could miss it.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And then the thing is.

[Sarah MacLean]

Perfect example, everybody, about how romance novelists use eyes.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Better than anybody else in the whole.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And then it. What happens is it happens essentially again immediately with these neighbors who come over and are like, you want to come over and meet our daughter Helen? You like her so much. She's so sweet and pretty. And he's like, okay, I guess, if I must. So then you're like, wait, this is a very strong willed man. What the is happening?

[Sarah MacLean]

And then he's like, hang on a second. I'm a strong willed man. What the fuck is happening? And then he figures it out. Because he's also brilliant, right? He figures it out right away. And he's. He sits in the way she writes. It is like he's in his office or wherever he is. He's like, in a quiet room. And he's, like, thinking it through. And he has basically, like, convinced, like, Stephen tried to convince him that, like, the almost kiss didn't happen. Like, there was nothing sexy between him. And he's like, no, but I remember, like, but I remember it right? And then he's like, wait a second. And he sits with it and sits with it and sits with it. And then he's like, oh. And he puts it together and he is furious.

[Jennifer Prokup]

You know what I always think of should be at this moment? Okay, do you remember in the West Wing, that scene where they just see Toby throwing the, like, oh, yeah, tennis. And he's just thinking.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then he puts it together.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And he puts it together. That's like, what this scene. Like, right? You're just watching him, watching him think, like, what the fuck just happened?

[Sarah MacLean]

I know something has happened.

[Jennifer Prokup]

What is it? Yeah, and he.

[Sarah MacLean]

So he essentially, like, they call this fluence, right? Like, like the magic of it all. Like. And so he. And when he, like, storms into Stephen, he's furious. And Steven is kind of, like, shocked, but also really guilty. Like, he knows he's done a bad thing. And he sort of. And he's also. But he's also like, holy. Like, he broke the fluence so fast, very quickly. Like he's seen it happen before, but never so powerfully.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And I want to point out, at least for me, and I'm not sure if this was just because I am a fast reader, I found myself also at that moment unsure if the second person had essentially, like, accidentally. No.

[Sarah MacLean]

Too much.

[Jennifer Prokup]

No. What I actually wondered is, okay, so Stephen had clearly done something to him. Yeah. Was it lingering? And then, like, essentially, anyone who's like, no, you really want to do this, too. About, like. Oh, okay. Right. And so. So, like, does that make sense? So are they.

[Sarah MacLean]

Were they magic or were they, like.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Just normal people.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes. Who essentially, like, stumbled into, like, leftover flu.

[Sarah MacLean]

And it's interesting because I think Steven asked that, too.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. And. Right. He's like, wait, you did what? Were they touching you? And so this is now here. We thought that he had.

[Sarah MacLean]

There's something else going on.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes. There's more bad people after you.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then we find out the rose garden is haunted.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

By, like, a fucking giant monster ghost.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Of the evil brother of Hector, who.

[Sarah MacLean]

Everyone has been terrified of. And then you hear that. Then you hear this crazy story at some point about how, like, at one, like, Crane was terrified of his brother, too. And, like, once his brother was just, like, messing with him and tried and broke his leg in a door.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And, like, it's just the horror of this family is so she does not pull any punches.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

So there we are in the. In the rose garden. He. He's scared away a couple of housemaids, and now they're there, and then, boom, here's the ghost of Hector, who, like, something is wrong with his. With the ghost's head.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And they can't, like, figure it seems like he's trying to hold his head on his body, and he starts to go after Stephen and Crane. I mean, he just loses it, and he hits him and he knocks the ghost's head off, which is fun to watch. I love a justifiable face punching, obviously, even when it's a ghost. And then they sort of go.

[Jennifer Prokup]

They, like.

[Sarah MacLean]

They're like, oh, no, there's definitely, like, more at play here. And at this point, I. As a reader, I'm like, okay, this. Interestingly, like, up until this point, this ghost point, I was like, this is like, a magicy book.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then the boat. The ghost came in, and I was like, oh, no.

[Jennifer Prokup]

We're like, in a. Yeah, this is something way bigger. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

I don't know what kind of book this is anymore. Like, it's. It's bigger than magic. It's. There's, like, ghosts and stuff, you know?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Okay, everybody, this is, like, a really interesting book in terms of the romance, pacing. And so what I want to talk about is, like, this is where. Right. Like, their initial interactions, like, Crane can Really, like, Cranes into Steven. I can tell that Steven's sort of into him. And after, like, sort of figuring out, like, the fluence, right, like, what Stephen had done to him, Crane essentially, like, kind of like, pushes them around a little bit in, like, a sec. Like, you know, like, he's kind of like. It's sexy, right? And he's basically like, you know, he's kind of like, licking at him, literally, and, you know, kind of kissing him and, like, you know, like, whispering right in his ear, right? Like, really using the attraction. Attraction between them. And what he says is, like, right when I. You, Mr. Day, will not be briefly, it will be long and hard and extremely thorough. And. Right. Like, Stephen, you can tell, is, like, really into it. And then we, like, get. He. His mind, like, kicks back in and he's basically like, your father ruined mine. Your brother assaulted my mother. And you think, I'm going to let you have me, like, get off of me. And it's really then this moment where Crane feels. It's. It's been very interesting to see him. You know, he's like, what is my guilt and. Or responsibility to these awful people that I. And he says, like, I don't think of myself as part of them. But of course. Of course you do. You know, I thought you didn't, but of course you do. Everyone does. It's why I hate being here. And in fact, all he wants to do essentially, is, like, go back to. To China where he's been happy and comfortable and can be himself, right? Like, at some point, they end up talking about how essentially, like, there's no.

There. There's, like, literally no problem with, like, men taking other men as lovers. And so he, like, grew up in a. You know, and lived in society where he's, you know, the sh. Like, the English shame of all of this, he just literally doesn't have. And so I found myself then, like, thinking, like, it's really a really smart way to, like, kind of put the brakes on at this point, because it. You know, if the way that Crane's family has ruined Steven's family is, like, this physical destruction, of course I'm not just gonna let you fuck me.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Of course not. And so. And there's limited sort of trust between them, although it is getting there, right? Like, the sense that.

Crane is like. I think Stephen, at one point he says, like, that's not an apology or an explanation, and I deserve both.

Right? And Steven's kind of like, you do. Because the thing we start to realize about Stephen is He, like, the one thing he feels like he has, it is the one thing about him that is, like, rock solid is his reputation and his knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. Right. And so to have Crane, who he thinks of as coming from the most dastardly family in England, call him on that. Right. I think it. It's like a. A moment of, like, really profound, like, kind of respect building between them.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, and there's this great moment where it's juxtaposed by. So pretty quickly they discover, like, so now we're in act two. Like, we know there's more happening. Like, there's something even. Almost even worse than, like, whatever the. The, like, talisman was doing that's going on. And they go back, they go to, like, town, and this is where they realize, like, just how. And Stephen realizes is just how awful this family has been. And the town has turned on Lucian.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right. So you have this sense that, like, Lucian has come. He's been 20 years away, but the town doesn't know that, like, he's a good vautry and all the other ones are bad.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, the town is just, like, he's a vautri, and we need to eradicate them because Hector and the father have never.

Been kind.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right. I mean, to the.

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, that's a very, like, milquetoast way of saying what's happened. Right. So it becomes revealed that the person who created the Jack did it as vengeance for her own granddaughter, I think. Granddaughter.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Something.

[Sarah MacLean]

This is where it starts to get complicated, Right? Because it turns out that there have been multiple instances of rape at the hands of Hector that the father was told about and did nothing about, and that resulted in two illegitimate children.

And also, I mean, like, incest. Incestual rape. So, I mean, brutal, right? Like, this is one of those things where, like, again, the fearlessness of 2013 is showing its teeth.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

This is a com. A really harrowing and horrifying plot point that Shakespeare us as readers and Stephen and Crane really to the core, Right?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And Crane suddenly realize that Crane is sort of like, I knew. I knew my father and my brother were this bad, right? Like, but Stephen is like, oh. And then Stephen sees the townspeople's desire for Lucian's death, for Crane's death, and, like, for Crane's punishment through a sort of new set of eyes, right? And suddenly he realizes, like, it is his job not just to, like, figure out who's doing bad magic, but also to protect Crane, who is trying also to do Better to like, be more than his, like, like his family. And he steps in, in this moment and he like, does his Jedi mind trick to, like, the townspeople.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, well, and to like the. They're, you know, like, essentially like the. The one woman who created the Jack is dead, but there's like kind of a new magical practitioner. And so, like, Right. He essentially has to convince her to stand down. Right. Like, essentially she will be the one who's like, focusing all of the evil magic potentially and aiming it. Right. Like, so he has to like, quell everybody. And the thing that is honestly.

Really. And again, I. I'm just gonna say, like, right, this book was written in 2013, but I found it. It really quite meaningful to me in my life now and like, the experience I'm having in the world as an American. Right. And what he says is like, essentially like, you didn't do anything about it until it impacted your family. Other families suffered at Hector's hands. And you didn't do anything to hurt your family. Right. And then you tried to kill somebody. Right, right. Crane, who had nothing to do with any of it. That's not justice. And, and then he says, like, essentially, like, there were lawyers, there were guns, there were any number of things that you could have gotten. You could have done to get rid of a hundred of Hectors. The only possible conclusion is that you all liked having him around.

And it's. Listen, it's devastating. It's like you can't just passively bear evil.

You have to try and do something that is right. You can't just like, be evil in response to evil. And I was, I was very. I. I don't know, I just was like, people, you know, there's truth in fiction. I'll say. I found this entire conversation about, about how we deal with the evil that surrounds us to be very powerful.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokup]

For where we are now, I'll just say.

[Sarah MacLean]

And in this moment, he diffuses the bomb and they leave. And what's interesting here is, so we're deep in the second act, like the writing here. She has now introduced all the suspects. Yes, Right. Like the second act is a murder mystery, like Agatha Christie style. And so now we are. We. We have all these, like, possible suspects. We know all of them have sort of motive. We know many of them have skill. And we know that there's still more that's not being clearly. That hasn't been clearly uncovered. We get back to the house and this is where he chokes on the hair.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Well, they go to the dinner that's when they meet the final set of suspects. Right. They do have to go to the dinner.

[Sarah MacLean]

He chucks in the hair before the dinner, though.

[Jennifer Prokup]

No, it's after her.

[Sarah MacLean]

Does he?

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes. So they go, remember. Okay, so Sarah.

[Sarah MacLean]

No, I don't remember.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I mean, I read it.

[Sarah MacLean]

I read it yesterday.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And apparently. I don't know, because that's like, we're so used to books not having plot anymore. Okay, Sarah's right. So Sarah's, like, said, we met all the suspects. And she. Right. The last set of suspects were the people at the dinner. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

The.

[Jennifer Prokup]

The two people with the daughter. The daughter is really. Right. And. Right. So then. And there's also, like, the vicar who refused to bury the girl in the cemetery, who killed herself. That was. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

This is the big thing. There's the child. The. The child. The woman who killed herself and who was pregnant.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Was buried outside the church grounds.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Because suicide is a sin.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. And so this is like the la. Right. So as Sarah said, like, we've met all the suspects. Now, like, we go to the dinner. Stephen can tell that there's something up with these people. Right. Like, Crane is being very, like. Now we see Crane back in power, like, throwing his weight around, Right. Like, you're gonna rebury this girl essentially inside the church grounds. And then again, they go home, right, from this dinner where the family clearly was gonna try and influencing him again to, like, marry this daughter. And I will say, far more upsetting to me, and I don't know what this says about me, the scene where he's choking on the hair than when he tried to kill himself. Because it was so horrifying. Horrifying. He starts, like, almost like he's coughing up a hairball.

[Sarah MacLean]

He's choking on hair and it's growing in his throat. And Steven immediately knows what's going on and, like, gets in there and, like, gets it out. And then it immediately comes back and he's like, you've been cursed. Somebody's taken a piece of your hair and is trying to kill you in such a way that no one will really notice, like, that. That you died in. In, like, some kind of strange way. So he reverses the. He reverses the spell. And, like, the theory is that he has, like, singed whoever it is.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Oh, yeah, exactly.

[Sarah MacLean]

Sent the magic shot, the fire straight through the hair to the other side.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It's amazing writing.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's very clever. It's a very clever little scene. It's also very, like, intense. And, like, there's a sort of Edge of romance here. And what I want is. This is where I want to talk about the romance of this book. Because for the first kind of, like.

Half of this book, I would say, like, the romance is real light touch. Like, in fact, I would say for the first time, first quarter of this book, there's almost no evidence that this.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Will be a romance.

[Sarah MacLean]

This is going to be a romance. Like, it could just as easily be, like, a buddy.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. Or straight, kind of gothic. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. Like, just sort of like a mystery with, like, a detective. And, you know, they just figure it out together. And then there are these kind of very subtle shifts in character through the first act.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Act.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then there is a moment kind of early in the second act where it becomes clear, like, this is going to be, like, hot. And it is when Crane gives Steven a, like, very quick and very dirty blowjob. On the side of the road.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

In nature. And it's, like, hot and terrific and, like, half a page long. Yes. Because you're like, it had. And again, pacing is really interesting here. Right. Like, they're in the middle of public. Like, anybody could walk by. In fact, someone does. Two people do. And it becomes clear that Crane. That Steven, can also, like, basically hide them.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, he can sort of vampire glamour them away, you know, And I mean, very handy. And then even. And I think I said out loud, well, that's handy. And then Crane was like, oh, this is useful.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, that's amazing.

[Sarah MacLean]

And so. But what. But then at this point, you're sort of in the second act. There's a lot of discussion about, like, it's very clear that these two are hot for each other.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And. But Steven, remember, thinks this house. There's something wrong with this house. And, like, like, he is. There is a kind of genuine sense that, like, sex is so personal and so bearing for a person, that he is, like, nervous about going to that emotional space by him. Like, in this house, at least, that's the. That's the instinct that you have as a reader.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Because Crane is like, let's do it. It.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Get it on anywhere you want. You pick.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And Steven is, like, not in this house. Like, not here. And so. And I think part of it is that he's. I think there are a lot of things that are, like, not really said, but are implied in the text about the way Steven thinks about sex through all of this. I think. And I think it's so deft and it's so careful. And it also has a real echo of, like, Old school gothic romance.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

Where like the sex is there, but all it's all shrouded. Like the sort of thoughts about it are all like couched in non sexual things. And what I mean by this is, for example, like, I am certain that Steven has never been in a situation where sex did not feel draining.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And that his concern about sex in this house that has no power will is that it will drain him and he won't be able to have the power that he needs when he is inevitably going to have to use it because there's bad happening all the time. He doesn't say this, he doesn't articulate this like clearly, but it's just so odd. Like the character, the character work here, the plot work. Like the fact that as a reader you fully understand this without a character having to say it out loud. Like, I've been thinking a lot recently about all this discussion and I think we talked about it on the podcast about this, how TV writers are having to write for two screens. Now, I don't know if we talked about it on banter or on the podcast, but like, just to, to recap, there's this kind of theory that TV or not theory, but like TV writers are basically being told, like.

Focus is being divided, right. Like you're sitting, you're watching tv, but you're also on your phone. And so the dialogue in the book, in the, in the, in the text has to be. You have to repeat things, characters have.

[Jennifer Prokup]

To repeat stuff or say what I'm doing, because you can't.

[Sarah MacLean]

Plot has to be sort of dumbed down to the point where like you can follow it with half an eye.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And in. I was thinking about this particular work, like the work of Steven plus sex in this book and the fact that.

KJ Charles explains it all to us without ever having to put the words in his mouth.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah. I think that's a really, really good point. Right? Because. And the reason it's draining is not because he doesn't enjoy it, but because he's so afraid. What if some. Yeah. What if someone sees us? What if I get in trouble? What if someone, you know, I mean, I am already on the edge. I can't afford to be fined or put in jail, Right? Like I'm this will. I cannot be cast out of society. Right. And that's what will happen. And Crane is instead on the absolute other side of this, right. He's basically like, if you've been gone for 20 years, how does everybody know your bad reputation? And there's this great scene where Crane's like, well, I was expelled for. From five schools, three of them, for gross immorality. My father was happy to tell everybody about why he was getting rid of me. But, you know, there's no laws against it in China. So I lived as I chose. And, like, word got back and Stephen is like, no laws? Like, what? How is that possible?

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, Stephen, who runs his whole world by laws.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Exactly. Who is law? Right. And I think that. That. And he's just like. And. And he says that, right? Like, no laws. You mean, like, normal? And he's like, yeah, entirely normal. It doesn't matter. None of it matters. And that is. Then why Crane is.

Just completely like.

[Sarah MacLean]

He doesn't.

[Jennifer Prokup]

He's like, after 20 years in a sane country, if I'm arrested, Merrick will bail me out and we'll go back to civilization, and that'll be fine. He's not afraid. He does not live in fear of the law coming down on him the same way that Stephen does, as you said, is the law. And so, yeah, I think that is entirely correct. Like, the draining aspect of it, the fear. Right. All of the ways that he's been told, it's shameful. Crane just does not have any of those things.

[Sarah MacLean]

No.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And it's really. And the other part of this, though, is, like, in conjunction with this information, he also, like, when, you know, Steven tries to explain, like, what the ether is. Right. Like, essentially Crane's like, oh, yeah, like, chi means chi. Yeah. And he's like, what? And he's like, yeah, it's like, totally a normal thing everybody talks about in China. Like, it's not something you would hide. Why are you hiding something that. Right. So it's like, everything about them and the way they operate in the world is completely opposite.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokup]

So. And it's like, that's when you see. Right. Like, why is Crane so fearless? Because he has lived away. He. He's, you know, and he's lived away from his parents. We also get this really terrible sort of moment where Merrick essentially reveals that, like, he was put on the boat to take Crane to China and was essentially told by Crane's father, like, knock him overboard. And then when you get there, you can just, like, make your way and do whatever you want in the world. He's, like, paid Merrick, essentially, to kill his own son. So, I mean, like, the pure, like, the evil. And I think that's the thing that's also just really interesting in the book, right? The evil that exists in the world Feeds on itself. And so then you really are. I was found myself very interested in what essentially Crane and Steven were able. And Merrick, right, were able to build for themselves in terms of like. But what does it mean if instead, like, love is what? Right, the positive good ways that we can take care of each other. Other.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, right.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Justice, Right. Like, it really is very much like these two big ideas just like banging into each other for the whole book.

[Sarah MacLean]

Then we get into the third act and I don't want to dwell on like everything that happens in the third act because it moves it. The pace is a gallop at this point, right? So good. We figure out who all the baddies are, right. We figure out what they're trying to do. There is a battle, like a full on magical battle that they like, prep for. But there's. I want to speak about the magpie bit.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

So as they're preparing for it, basically Stephen knows. He's like, they're too powerful. Like, I can't fight them alone. He sends Merrick off to find another person who he thinks, like, if you bring her here, she might be able to help me. Like, then at least I would have. There will be two of us. Right? And then, and then Crane does this beautiful thing where he's like, here is like. It turns out his signet ring was passed down from the original Magpie Lord, the magician who was multiple generations before. And he says to Steven, he's like, you need this. Like, this should be yours. And of course Steven is like, I couldn't possibly. It's the magician's ring. Whatever, whatever. And he's like, you deserve it. Like you use it. And it was like there's this sort of moment where there's sort of a whole hope that this ring will be a talisman, right?

[Jennifer Prokup]

There'll be magic. Help.

[Sarah MacLean]

Channel the magic and help. And then. And through all this, Steven is sort of noodling these birds and like, maybe there's something about the birds. Like something's gonna happen with the birds. Like the birds have power, like what's going on here? And of course the birds do. And there is the birds. Listen, this is kj. Charles is not a dummy. Like, she brings the birds back. The birds are. Have a huge role in the third act act.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right?

[Sarah MacLean]

And then finally these two babies get to.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Well, they've like. But you know what's really interesting and I want to talk about this because I found myself thinking it would have been really easy to have them do it beforehand. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Night before danger bang.

[Jennifer Prokup]

This is our last chance. But they don't.

[Sarah MacLean]

Night before we die. Right.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Because Steven's like, I can't. I, I, I can't do it. And I can't do it because it's my job to protect you and that we can't do it. So I found myself. So they have to vanquish all the evil before they can.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. And then they finally. Which is an interesting choice, right? Because we're. And I mean, like, listen, I'm a pretty big stickler, I would say, with romances that, like, I don't actually think sleeping together needs to happen after, like, the end of the, like, after the happily ever after.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

But in this case, it is so essential because.

The, the, the two of them, so that, so, you know, whatever. There's this big battle they do win. Of course they win. Right. And it resolves itself in sort of very gory, kind of like, horror y kind of way.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yes. Right. Leaning hard into the gothic at that point.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right, exactly. And then these two babies get to finally be together and they have sex. And it's so great that literally it wakes up the house, like, encanto style, everyone. And, like, the whole house, all the magpies start to, like, they come to.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Life in the paintings, on the walls, in the dishes. Like, Right. Like.

[Sarah MacLean]

And on Crane's body.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Oh, my God.

[Sarah MacLean]

It starts to fly around.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Amazing.

[Sarah MacLean]

There's a moment, you guys, if you haven't read it, just skip this because it's worth skipping and, like, not spoiling. There is a moment, so. And Steven's hand is on Crane's chest. And a magpie flies from Crane into Steven's skin, like, on, across his hand and up his arm. And it is so hot. It's like the hottest thing I've ever read.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It is the hottest. I'm like, I want to bang on a table. It's so great.

[Sarah MacLean]

The two of them are so full of joy in this moment together that it feels like pure, distilled happily ever after.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It is perfect.

[Sarah MacLean]

It is. I mean, I'm not sure it's interesting, right, Because. Because I think historicals, especially romance, a lot of romance, but historicals especially kind of trade in, like, the agony of love. Right? Like the brutal, like, I might lose you. This might never work. We might never happen. Like, they can't be together kind of love. Right. I, I mean, I love that shit. Sure.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Me too.

[Sarah MacLean]

But I think that it is so rare in romance to find, like, pure joy between two characters when it is, like, fully earned, deeply believable, and, like, Leaves you with this really satisfying sense of, like, these two are gonna be okay. And because of the joy, like. And I think it's really beautiful.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, it's awesome. It's amazing. Everybody.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I mean, it does sort. And I like that. And they joke together. And, like, you just have this sense of, like, the birds have, like, come to life and protected them in some weird way. And then is the moment of revelation where Steven says to Crane, like, we together are the magpie Lord. And then you're like, yay, now we're.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Gonna go fight crime.

[Sarah MacLean]

Get them a camper.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Also, he makes magical lube with his hand. So I just do want to say, oh, he does.

[Sarah MacLean]

And he's also. He's like a vibrator energy. Vibrator all.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I mean, I was like, there better be some magical sex. It's perfect. So the end of the. Yeah. So then here's the thing. The book ends in what I would call probably an hfn, Right? Like, because they have just vanquished this big evil, then. And this is interesting, right? So in my ebook, at least, it ends with, like, a short story, right? Called Interlude with the Tattoo with Tattoos, where they. We get more of the tattoo sex. Which is correct. I could read every.

[Sarah MacLean]

Which is all I want.

[Jennifer Prokup]

All I want. And then it turns out that there are other books essentially with them, Right? Like, essentially now, kind of urban fantasy style, but, like, make it historical, where the two of them are together. And then, like, in every book, there is, like, a new big Bad they have to fight. And so I am, you know, super excited to keep reading these because, God, what a pure shot of absolute romance perfection that book was.

[Sarah MacLean]

It was great. So fast, like, so well plotted, so romantic. Like, the end was so full of joy. I mean, just.

[Jennifer Prokup]

It really hit all of it.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. I do just want to say one more thing about those tattoos. So obviously, everybody knows I fucking love a tattoo. Like, I love a tattoo. It is in romance. And I. You know, tattoos, like weather and color and animals all mean something, right? And birds are really particularly interesting as tattoos. They obviously were the realm of sailors. They mean they have, like, a very clear meaning in this time period, which is sailors in the 17 and 1800s who tattooed birds on their bodies, did it obviously for freedom. Like, it makes sense that birds feel like freedom, but also the idea was that they would always. They would bring you home.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right, Right. And so that's why sailors put a bird, put birds on their body, like, to bring them home to land. Right? And it feels like in this way, right? Like there's this perfect moment at the end with the bird tattoos flying between them. Like, like there is home. And it is so good. It's a great moment. And.

I mean it. Make that moment made the book in a lot of ways. Like the joyful consummation of their love.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I would say this is one of those examples where we say all the time, like, there are all these rules of romance and like one of them is like, don't end it with sex. Like, yeah, I think this is the case.

[Jennifer Prokup]

All of a sudden the exception proves the rule.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I would say the other thing that was like really interesting is. And again, like KJ Charles is so good at the job. Like, we like understand as the book like is evolving that Crane in particular has always been really attracted to dangerous men.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh yeah, right.

[Jennifer Prokup]

And it's almost like a stick, right? Like he's always getting in trouble.

Right? And then he's like, what? And the, and this moment, right, this, this man who is not physically imposing at one point, Crane looks at him and this after he's like fought off all these like, you know, complete dastardly evil. And one basically is like, there is not a man alive who would not like stand aside for him. That is like the extent of his power right now. And so like that's the other part is, you know, really the fact that, you know, seeing this, it's literally a book that in every way is about like seeing beyond. Right? Seeing beyond what? Like the presentation of a person in of terms to like what they're truly capable of. Like what lies beneath the surface. Oh God, it's so good. What a read.

[Sarah MacLean]

A really great, just fast paced, fun read.

Obviously. Just I mean a trailblazing author. We've already said. And please head, if you haven't listened to it, head over to the trailer laser episode right now and, and do yourself a favor and listen to kj. Just talk about the work. Talk about how she thinks about writing, how she thought about editing structure, the way she thinks about the text. That episode will be in show notes. We'll put it right at the top of show notes so that you can all find it right away. And yeah, if you read this book with us, let us know what you thought of it. Tell us on Instagram on Threads on Blue Sky. We are on Instagram and Threads at Faded Mates pod on Blue sky at Faded Mates. You can also leave comments on Show Notes at the website, which is faded mates.net. i'm Sarah Mlan. I'm here with my friend Jen Proup. We are faded mates and you can listen to us every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts [e-mail] there you'll find show notes where we talk about we leave late links about whatever it is that we've been talking about on the episode. Also on all of our other episodes we leave links and information on the books we talk about and you can do that [e-mail] we are on social media. You can also join us on that discord that Jen talked about at the beginning of the the episode. You can do that by joining the Patreon. There are no levels of the Patreon. You just join at, you know, whatever amount you like and you get access to one extra episode a month and the discord. So that [e-mail] Patreon if you're not in a position to be able to join the Patreon, but you are in the position to be able to have somebody who'd like to give you a gift this holiday season, you can get that or send them the link fatedmates.net gift and ask for a Patreon subscription for the year. We would love to have you over there. Other than that, don't forget the box which is from Pocket books in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. You can find that [e-mail] bookbox a couple more Episodes this year we are taking the week off of Christmas Day, but we will be around for New Year's always with a very much headphones in episode.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I already have headphones in.

[Sarah MacLean]

We have recorded it. But I'm already blushing.

[Jennifer Prokup]

I have been reading some things.

Everybody and I. I'm just shocked. Shocked, I tell you. And you will be too.

[Sarah MacLean]

And when we're shocked, woo. You know what's coming. So the.

[Jennifer Prokup]

You don't. Don't know. I. You don't.

[Sarah MacLean]

You have no idea. You cannot possibly be ready anyway. So that is us. We are very excited always to have you, especially now as the holidays approach. If you are celebrating, we hope you're going to have a beautiful, peaceful, very easy holiday season and we'll see you next week. Thanks everyone. Take care of yourselves and each other.

[Jennifer Prokup]

Sa.