← Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
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- [00:00]
A
So Jen, a weird thing happened to me today.
- [00:03]
B
Oh yeah, tell me about it.
- [00:04]
A
Sarah. So everybody, my actual name is Sarah, but I write under a pen name because everybody writes under pen names for reasons. So anyway, I write under a pen name for a reason. And it's a complicated reality here in this house because I do not. I also did not take my husband's name when we were married. So we have like three to surnames.
- [00:27]
B
Sure.
- [00:28]
A
That like wander through this house now and then. But gen, generally I expect that the people in my life who like are, you know, nice enough to send me gifts, for example, know my name.
- [00:42]
B
Sure.
- [00:43]
A
And I would especially expect that of my actual human mother.
- [00:49]
B
Okay.
- [00:51]
A
Who does not listen to the podcast or whatever.
- [00:53]
B
Sure. You could say this. Right. But.
- [00:54]
A
But today. So it is also my birthday this week. Actually it's my birthday today. Wednesday, if you are listening.
- [01:01]
B
I was literally like, oh, I am a bad friend. I was literally.
- [01:05]
A
It's not, it's not my birthday today in our life, Jen.
- [01:09]
B
Sure. It is my birthday today. Did you see me completely like lose my mind? Like glitch?
- [01:14]
A
Meanwhile. You know what though?
- [01:15]
B
You're a present.
- [01:16]
A
You got a. You sent me a great gift.
- [01:17]
B
I sent you another great gift and it arrived yesterday.
- [01:20]
A
You can open it though.
- [01:20]
B
Sure.
- [01:20]
A
Cuz I'm not going to tell you. From Jennifer. From Jennifer Prokop. And I was like, listen. How many? Listen, speaking. Speaking of full names, they just fucking.
- [01:31]
B
Fill that in on Amazon.
- [01:32]
A
Legal name.
- [01:33]
B
I know who you are. Fill that in on Amazon. You're like, it's a gift. And then if you don't stop and like stop them, they're telling everybody your business.
- [01:40]
A
God forbid you should take the two seconds to just write love, Jen. But that's okay. It's from Jennifer Pro cop.
- [01:46]
B
So anyway, you know what? This, this, I put it under the tree.
- [01:50]
A
Thank you. There is no, to be fair, there everybody. I should say there no present under Jennifer's tree from Sarah McLean or any of the other names that I have.
- [01:59]
B
You know what? I am expecting basically zero presences here from anybody in my life. And I think that's fine. I don't care.
- [02:06]
A
Presents are for.
- [02:07]
B
They sent you something.
- [02:07]
A
It's just not there yet.
- [02:08]
B
I don't. It doesn't matter. Nothing matters.
- [02:10]
A
I mean, it should matter because I'm your friend and you should get presents from your friends. Anyway, can we get back to me though?
- [02:16]
B
Sure. Yes, sorry. And your mother.
- [02:18]
A
It's my birthday this week and my mother sent me a birthday card and it is addressed to Sarah MacLaine.
- [02:23]
B
That's weird.
- [02:24]
A
Which has literally never been my name continues to not be my legal name.
- [02:31]
B
That's weird.
- [02:32]
A
So, I mean, I probably shouldn't laugh because this probably. My mother is quite aging and like, this probably is indicative of something, but I like to think that it's indicative of the fact that she finally read one of my books and now believes that I have a career. My mother's very British and there was no fucking way she was gonna read a romance novel. Not from the very jump. And then she read Storms and she said, I enjoyed it.
- [02:58]
B
That sounds nice. My mom listens to the podcast sometimes. You just. She doesn't always listen.
- [03:03]
A
I'm glad for that. I'm glad for both of those things.
- [03:06]
B
I'm glad she listens sometimes.
- [03:07]
A
I'm glad she doesn't always listen. I expect Carol would tap right out if.
- [03:13]
B
Yeah, I mean, yeah, she needed to. This is a woman who has very strong self preservation instincts. And for sure that's true.
- [03:22]
A
She does not listen to the New Year's Eve episodes.
- [03:24]
B
No, I mean, I'm sure they don't even appear like some quirk of, like, fate, just, like, universe, like, just poof, gone.
- [03:34]
A
Even though it's funny. So I did this event with a book club in California over Zoom a couple weeks ago, and it was really funny because I got on the thing and like. And like, there was this lovely group of women, some of whom maybe listen to Faded mates. Welcome if you are part of this lovely group of women. And they immediately were like, we have to say we have to tell you a story. And she told. And you know, and the moment she. So the thing is, is that the moment somebody says that to me this year, I either think they're going to tell me a story about their absolutely bananas crazy pants family.
- [04:15]
B
Okay, sure. Oh, yeah.
- [04:16]
A
Because of story. Oh, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Which they love to do. Or, you know, who knows, right?
- [04:21]
B
But it's.
- [04:22]
A
It's rare I hear something that I haven't already heard. And she says, well, I was listening to your book on audio. And then another woman from the club interjects, we've never read anything so dirty. And I was like, my friends, the water is fine.
- [04:39]
B
Listen, pally, they're all watching Heated Rivalry now and learning things. Listen, may I introduce you to Wicked and the Wallflower.
- [04:48]
A
So seriously, that rooftop scene, blowing minds across California. Anyway, point is. And then she's like, I got in the car and I was. I was listening in the car and then I came into the house. And my teenage son and his friend.
- [05:04]
B
Had to borrow the car.
- [05:06]
A
Like, had to use that car to go somewhere. So they immediately, like, we sort of traded. And it never occurred to me that.
- [05:14]
B
My phone from inside the house was still connected.
- [05:19]
A
Meanwhile, when her last 17 year old.
- [05:22]
B
And his friend got in the car.
- [05:24]
A
And it was the scene where Alice and Jack are exploring the desk in her father's office. And I was like, listen. And she started it. And I was like, I know exactly.
- [05:34]
B
I know exactly what you're gonna say. Right, exactly.
- [05:37]
A
And then I said, you know what, ma'? Am. I mean, I didn't call her ma' am because I'm not an idiot.
- [05:41]
B
Sure.
- [05:42]
A
I'm not cruel. I was like, you know what? Moms deserve nice things, too. So all I'm saying is you don't know what your mom was into. And she might be super into, you know, New Year's Eve stuff.
- [05:53]
B
Sure, sure.
- [05:56]
A
But also, there's no reason for you to discuss that with your mother, is my point.
- [06:01]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [06:02]
A
You or anyone else. This is me. You like. Broadly.
- [06:04]
B
Sure.
- [06:05]
A
You and the.
- [06:05]
B
Sure.
- [06:06]
A
Kind of second person.
- [06:07]
B
Yes. I was literally like, no, 100.
- [06:10]
A
Not you, Jen. Also you, Jen, but not you. But, you know.
- [06:14]
B
Sure.
- [06:15]
A
Anyway, so here we are. So I'm getting mail from my mom with a different name on it than I have had legally my whole life than she gave me. So that's weird, but, you know, that's. That's life. Welcome, everyone, to Fated mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them. I read a lot of romance novels this week. Yes.
- [06:38]
B
And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And. Well, yeah, it's. Well, we have a lot of fun things to talk about, and it's debut week, so we'll get to that. Heated rivalry is still going hot, speeded, and rivalrous. Speaking of people not understanding a lot about sex, I've seen some things.
- [07:02]
A
All right, headphones in, everyone, because I.
- [07:04]
B
Will talk about this. Oh, yeah.
- [07:05]
A
Okay, listen, everyone. I am interested in self preservation from all things. So I have not watched Heat of Rivalry yet because I did not grow up in the age of commercial breaks and having to wait a whole week for television to do that anymore. Like, that's just uncivilized behavior. So now I wait until the whole thing's out, and then I will, you know, download HBO Max, and then I will watch the whole show in one sitting, and then I will get on the texting and I will say to Joanna and Andriana and Jen. That I understand them, but I have read the book, and so I feel comfortable saying that when the Internet blew up this morning, because apparently there was an. There was a scene this week or.
- [07:46]
B
Yes.
- [07:46]
A
I don't know. Where Shane takes care of both of them with his hand at the same time.
- [07:53]
B
Correct.
- [07:54]
A
Which I did not know how to name, by the way. Oh, yeah, it has a name that I'm a straight. And I did not know that I had a name.
- [08:00]
B
I did know about the name. Yeah. Cuz I like to read. What's it called? Fring.
- [08:04]
A
Wait, you like? That's like a word that you've seen in books? Yeah, no, I've never seen that word in a book.
- [08:12]
B
All right, all right. Well, I.
- [08:13]
A
You're more well read than me.
- [08:15]
B
I. Okay. I don't know. Maybe it's, you know, rotting.
- [08:18]
A
First of all, that's not as. I know. It's not a sexy word. Sexy. I think that's the word I want to see in print.
- [08:23]
B
Yeah, but that's. I think now I'm like, I wonder. Okay, doesn't matter. That's a word. I knew.
- [08:28]
A
It's a mashup of like, friend and rod.
- [08:35]
B
You're so.
- [08:57]
A
Okay. Okay. This is an audio podcast that we have to come back together. Okay. And the reason why I say that, everyone, is because.
- [09:20]
B
Good news, everybody. Carol's. Carol's gone. Okay. I'm fine.
- [09:31]
A
All right.
- [09:32]
B
I'm ready.
- [09:32]
A
Okay. All right.
- [09:34]
B
Okay.
- [09:35]
A
We're professionals. We are not.
- [09:37]
B
But. Okay, but you know what, everyone? Right now, there's a Golden Globe for best podcast now. And I really feel. Now I'm looking it up. It's from the French for to rub.
- [09:50]
A
Oh, is that how you say rub in French?
- [09:52]
B
I have no idea. I like my way better, honestly.
- [09:58]
A
Okay. Anyway, everybody.
- [10:01]
B
Oh, when you look it up on Wikipedia, there's, like, actual illustrations, including one all the way back from the Moguls. What a time. I mean, what a time. Everyone, I would say look down at your podcasting app and you could enjoy this right now, but sadly, you can't. So let's go. They were on the cave paintings. That's where the word comes from.
- [10:23]
A
Check show notes for all this information, everyone. But the point is, is that if your friend has a rod and you also have a. If you also have a rod.
- [10:35]
B
You.
- [10:35]
A
Can touch both of them at the same time. And if you're Shane, you could do.
- [10:38]
B
It with one hand. Sure.
- [10:39]
A
And apparently this happens in this episode of Heated rivalry, and the straights were confused.
- [10:45]
B
That's the Part that I've got to tell you, having watched this, supreme lack.
- [10:49]
A
Of imagination on the part of everyone here.
- [10:52]
B
Yes.
- [10:53]
A
Because even if you didn't know, even.
- [10:55]
B
If you weren't prodding, sure, you could probably be like, I wonder what's happening right now.
- [11:00]
A
Also, guess what? If you can get off doing it, humans do. So I don't know.
- [11:04]
B
Correct. Correct. Anyway. Amazing. This. I don't even know where we're gonna go from there, to be honest with you.
- [11:11]
A
This was great. Cut it, print it, send it to Adrianna and Joanna.
- [11:14]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, as soon as this is live, I'm gonna be like, please just listen to us. Like fucking laughs. First 11 minutes of the episode. You know, I, unlike, I, as everyone knows, do not watch tv. But I have been watching the show in real time and I'll tell you, it has been a real delight because it. Like a water cooler. Just know, like the water cooler effect, right? Like talking about it with people who are watching about it at the same time and are really excited on the discord. I have like a couple friend groups at work who are watching it and the guy at the front desk at school and I chat about it and we send each other little memes and so it's been great. So it's. I. You can. It is not too late for you to get on this train, everybody. That's what I'm saying. Unless, of course, you're in a place where you can't find it yet, but it will be coming to a train station near you and you're gonna have a nice time. Let's see, it's nearing the holidays. I think that if you have not yet ordered our book box from Pocketbooks, I can't guarantee. I think at this point probably it's not gonna come in time for the holidays.
- [12:19]
A
Come for the holidays. Although mine did come within, like two days.
- [12:22]
B
Mine did come also really fast. But what I will tell you is, even if that's not winter is coming and it's here and you're gonna want some nice books to read. And so heated rivalry is going to end and you're gonna need something to read. And this box from Pocketbooks is full of great things for you to read. So if you haven't yet had a chance to get that, please check it out. Okay? So do we want to talk about debuts? Sarah? This week's episode of Faded Mace is sponsored by the Scandals and Swoons festival.
- [12:54]
A
This is so exciting. If you are in and around Orlando, Florida in January, you are gonna be so psyched because this Scandals and Swoons festival is a celebration of historical romance. It is a brand new historical romance conference and it is specifically designed to uplift marginalized and diverse voices in historical romance and celebrate historicals with a group of people who really really love our little corner of romance. The inaugural event is in Orlando on January 18th and it is a one day signing with two signing sessions and an add on VIP dinner featuring some incredible authors and like authors that we love here at Fated Mates. Addie Jalak will be there. Alice Murphy, Elizabeth Everett, Alma Albin, Harper St. George, Joanna Lowell, who we love so much. Joanna Shoup, who we love so much. Lenora Bell, Liana De La Rosa this is going to be a absolutely star studded historical romance event for those of you who are in or interested in heading to Orlando in January where it'll be warm and there will be lots of romance authors ready to sign your books. Tickets start at $30 and again that event is on January 18th.
- [14:11]
B
This is a perfect thing to be doing in the very cold and snowy month of January, heading down to Florida for something warm and spicy. So if you would like to check it out you can go to the Scandals and Swoons fest website@swoonsfest.com so that's SW O-O-N S F-E-S-T.com and thanks to the Scandals and Swoons Fest for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [14:39]
A
Yeah, so we started this last year this idea of doing like a debut episode and I think part of the reason why we asked why we talked about this and I know I don't want to repeat myself because I know we talked about this exact problem a couple of episodes ago, but I think you and I both kind of felt like it's very hard to keep track of new names in genre.
- [15:05]
B
Yeah.
- [15:06]
A
And what I mean by that is discoverability. As we've been saying over the last, you know, it feels like forever is very difficult in romance and so many of our listeners come to us to like learn about new authors. But we have a we you and you and I, if we decide that, you know, this is what our work is to make sure our listeners have access to new authors and like are hearing about new authors. It's our work to find them. And the logical, I mean obviously every episode we try to add at least a couple of books that we've by people we've never talked about on the podcast. And romance is a massive pool and that's pretty easy to do. But the debut of it all is difficult because if you're not kind of the biggest book of the year debut, which sometimes does happen, then often you can be just sort of like a quiet book that doesn't get very much attention, but should have gotten attention. And it's because, you know, you're brand new to the, to the, to the genre or to publishing and you are not getting the support that you need in house or you don't really, you don't have a community or a network of other authors to like, talk about your book, you know, and it becomes very, very difficult to find all those like 10 touch points that you need for an, for a reader to be like, oh, I've heard of that person before, I've heard of that book before. I'm going to get it. So last year we went out to all the traditional publishers and then also to our discord and to you all and we said, we're looking for debuts. Please, you know, fill out this form. We had a Google form and we asked all the publishers to please send us their debuts. And the rul were very clear. We were like, we don't, we want true debut authors. We don't want people who've changed genre. We want people who like, are, this is truly their first published book. And last year it felt like we got a fair number of books from traditional publishers. This year, not so much.
- [17:15]
B
Yes.
- [17:16]
A
And I think, and like kind of a shocking lack of debuts. And that's not to say that there weren't obviously a number of them, but I mean, I would say at least half of what we had last year.
- [17:32]
B
Half the number for sure.
- [17:34]
A
One other thing I want to say is our other rule is it can't be something that has been self published or independently published and then was picked up by a publishing, a traditional publishing house.
- [17:45]
B
Unless it's in the same year.
- [17:46]
A
Unless it's in the same year, which is very rare. So. So for us it felt very much like we were, you know, houses are saying like debut romance, you know, this is a debut and it is a debut for them, but it's not. Or in traditional publishing, but it's not actually a debut. It's a book that's been on KU for, you know, a year.
- [18:09]
B
So yeah, we did, we had publishers kind of just being like, we don't really have any.
- [18:13]
A
Yep.
- [18:13]
B
We had other publishers like, not respond. And then I had like sort of lists that I had been keeping and you know, so there are some books on here, here that like, you know, we think, I mean, it's just, it it's just really interesting. And I. I think the thing that I would say. Right. Is for me, like, reading for the. And maybe it's like a good time to talk about, like, sort of our process because.
- [18:37]
A
Oh, yeah, we should.
- [18:38]
B
Right. Like, so. And we've. This is now the second year that we've done this and like, the process. This process worked really well for me last year and then, like, not as well for me this year. So maybe I'm still kind of trying to figure it out. But I think one of the things I did last, essentially, like, I just had this big stack of books because we asked publishers to send them. You and I had also done a better job of, like, splitting up the list. Kind of like, I'll tackle these. You tackle these. This year we kind of like, we. It was late. The. We didn't really happen. So it was just kind of like we were working from like a spreadsheet. And then I had some books and then some were on my Kindle. So I think I just wasn't as organized. But the reason I kind of like, essentially dedicating a couple weeks to reading them or try attempting them. Like, at one point I told Sarah, I was like, I feel like I'm like, you know, in ied in Immortals After Dark, like a demon to find his mate has to, like, attempt a lot of people, and then they don't know until they do it. That was me. I was attempting a lot of books. And it was really interesting. What I liked about it last year and still this year was kind of like, even if there are books I didn't quite finish or I didn't quite get to. To like, see, when you look at a whole group of books, like, what are some of the, like, the commonalities? Right. So, for example, there were like, more at least three books this year that were all about gaming. Right. And I don't think I would have like, clued into that necessarily if I had not. And I'm not gonna like, talk about actually any of these books, but, like, I. So I think there's something useful about like, sort of thinking about, like, the sort of thematic similarities. And then also, are there, like, sort of similarities in the writing or there things you're seeing bubble up that you're like, oh, there really are more heroine only point of view books out there. Right? Like, this is kind of like what this group of books looks like as a collective. I think the reason it didn't quite work for me was maybe my aforementioned, like, lack of. I don't know, organization.
- [20:48]
A
I mean, I did the same. I mean, yes, we were less organized this year about it. And I felt like in the last like two weeks I've been sort of really scrambling to find all of the, all of the debuts that I wanted to attempt over the course of the year that I missed back. Although you'll, you'll hear I'm gonna talk about at least one that like I have talked about before. And I think that there, there are a lot of reasons for that. Like one, I think I actually did read less this year. I read, I read fewer books this year, just sort of naturally. And I did, I was doing a lot more re. And you know, it was a busy year for me. But also 2025 was sort of a chaotic mental mess, like for me globally. And so it, I, you know, for me, I was really reading to the podcast every week.
- [21:32]
B
Yeah, me too.
- [21:33]
A
And so, you know, it was just, it just felt like a different kind of process. But also it was an exercise in discoverability for me. Like, because knowing that that fee. There were fewer books coming from traditional publishers. Right. I went out looking for indie published romance. And like, that is a, that is also a different. You can't just get to Google and be like, show me all the debut indie published romance in 2025.
- [22:02]
B
Right. It's impossible. It doesn't exist.
- [22:04]
A
Yeah, people don't do it. I think a lot, A lot. A lot of debut authors, like, are hesitant to call themselves that. Like, and so, you know, even in the description, it's very difficult to sort of know is a book by an author I've never heard of a debut, like, yeah, right. It's just a lot more research intensive. Well, and I think, and then it's.
- [22:25]
B
Worth saying too that like the opposite can also be true. Like, right. Someone could have written a bunch of books under a different pen name.
- [22:32]
A
Right.
- [22:32]
B
Like in a different sub genre, for example. And then you're like, oh, this looks like their first book. But then someone's like, oh no, that's so and so. Right. So it's also really tricky to sort of run some of that down in a way that feels at all doable.
- [22:50]
A
Correct. And then there was also the sort of the DNA of this episode.
- [22:56]
B
Right.
- [22:56]
A
Which we talked about a lot because last year we were very, very committed to like, we wanted it to be like bangers. Yeah, Right. And this year I think we continue to want this episode to be bangers. These are people who, we think their first book indicates that they could be a long standing voice in genre, this could be an author who you, ten years from now are able to say, I read her when. Right. And I think I read them when. And I think that's really valuable. And I think that requires finding the bangers, requires reading many, many more books. Right. We could have done this the way we do, say, quarterly roundup, where we don't.
- [23:48]
B
We.
- [23:49]
A
You know, those are the four episodes that we do a year where we basically play Discoverability for you.
- [23:54]
B
Yeah.
- [23:56]
A
But we haven't read all of the books. And so we just say, like, here are. Here are, you know, 40 books we're excited about in the next 30 in the next three months. So there's that, too. And that is. I want to say, we also said, all right, we're going to come with four books each. So this is not to say these are the only bangers, or. I mean, and we also missed a bunch of books, because, of course, we do. Like, we are two people just trying to get by in the world. But I would like to talk a little bit about how we come at debuts, because I think that's what I.
- [24:30]
B
Want to talk about.
- [24:32]
A
I think we are different in the way. I mean, we are different readers, as everybody who listens to the podcast knows. And sometimes my favorite is when somebody comes up to you, like, at a. Some. Somebody comes up to me an event, and they're like, you know, I'm a Sarah. I'm. I'm a Sarah reader. I'm. I'm a gen reader. And. Or they'll say, like, you know, I know that if you love a book.
- [24:51]
B
I'm not gonna like it.
- [24:53]
A
I'm like, great. Listen, I'm really glad that I can help you, like, do that work. But I. I will say, most of the time, people are like. I also know, though, like, that that book is gonna be good. Like, somebody will love that book. It's a good book. It's just not for me. And so. But I freaking love a debut. Like, And I'm publicly, like, give me the messy ones.
- [25:19]
B
Give me.
- [25:20]
A
Because for me, first books are really telling. I think. I think they are a showcase of an author's instincts before they are checked.
- [25:37]
B
Yeah, I think that's.
- [25:39]
A
And so, you know, for me, like, I expect debuts to be kind of flabby.
- [25:45]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [25:46]
A
I expect them to have characters who maybe shouldn't be there to be messy.
- [25:49]
B
Yeah.
- [25:50]
A
Yeah. Like, plot movements that, like, might have been tightened up in the hands of a more seasoned author. Like. But I also expect them to be raw, like, you know, I want the emotions to be sort of dialed up to 11. I want it to feel like there's, like, this person came to romance to write romance because they love something about the genre.
- [26:16]
B
Yeah.
- [26:16]
A
And so I really love a book that's doing something weird in. I mean, you all know that I love a book that's doing something weird no matter who writes it. But I feel like debuts who do things that are weird are, like, really a unique. Yeah, that's a unique book that I really. I really enjoy reading them, even if I'm like, this is terrible. You know, though I will say I did not say that about any of the books I'm talking about today. I did not think any of them were terrible.
- [26:47]
B
Yeah, no, I think we are alike in that way. I mean, I think there are books where. There are things that. Like, in some of these books where I was like, if this had been someone's third book, this would have driven me bonkers. But because it's a debut, like, it's not a big deal, I found myself really thinking about, like, which books I kept, like, what. What were the, like, X factors in, like, the books that kept me reading. Obviously, the first one is just, like, the writing's really good, right? Like, this is a smooth. Right. Like, it's genre fiction. I would like very much to just pick up the book and fall into it and have the reading experience feel like a slip and sl. Right. Like, I'm not looking for a lot of bumps in the road. And so that can mean both, like, the sentence level work, right? Like, sort of is. Is, you know, like, that kind of thing. Right. I'm not stopping to be like, wait, what's going on here? Right. So the writing feels good and, you know, really readable to me. But then I would say, like, the other big things I was looking for is feelings, right? Like, I just want the feelings to be there. So whatever. And whatever those feelings are. And I don't mean, like, I have a book that I thought was full of grief that I really liked. I had another book that I just thought was really almost, like, zany, Right. And I think that's it. It was like, I think. But, like, to me, those are probably my two, like, the kind of the two ends of the spectrum for me, which is like, I also just want to feel that the author is, like, really leaning into their own premise, right? Like, whatever story it is that they are telling, it's a story they really believe in. And that means that, like, there's, you know, like you said, Even if it's like messy and raw, that there's just like a real sense of this person, you know, just really like this. I don't know, there's a kind of, I don't like a kind of commitment to it. Right. That I find it's very hard obviously to like name what that looks like. But as I was reading I was kind of like I could feel it or I couldn't. And I think that's the part that, you know, these book, the books I, the four books I'm talking about are actually pretty different. And then I have a handful of other ones that I like kind of like didn't quite finish but think were interesting and intend to finish and maybe we'll be talking about or like you'll mention one, I'll be like, oh, that reminds me of. These were books more than anything else that I when I was reading thought I can't wait to get back to it.
- [29:26]
A
Yep, agreed.
- [29:28]
B
I can't wait to get back to it. What's going to, what's going to happen to these people? Right. That's all I wanted. Yeah. So the one other thing I would, I think was really interesting is that I would say that I found overall these books to be honestly not very sexy. I don't know, I guess I'll just say it.
- [29:50]
A
I think that's a fair assessment. Of the pool.
- [29:55]
B
Yeah, of the pool.
- [29:57]
A
I, you know, I, if you follow me on threads, you know that I was sort of pushing my threads followers to like wreck me books this year over the last couple of weeks. I was particularly looking for that sort of High Heat billionaire. Like the sort of straight down the middle.
- [30:20]
B
Right.
- [30:20]
A
Like High heat billionaire in like indie published. Like, I don't know, like hockey. Like whatever it was, just give it to me. Like what's the what's. I wanted that sort of very, very basic classic contemporary.
- [30:38]
B
Yeah.
- [30:41]
A
And I honestly did not find anything debut that scratched that particular itch. And that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I guess what I'm saying here is if you know of that author, somebody who wrote their first book and it was this kind of, I mean one handed read. That's what I was really looking for is like something with like a real like fierce intensity in terms of like the, the sexiness.
- [31:17]
B
Yeah.
- [31:18]
A
I don't want it horny, I want it sexy.
- [31:20]
B
Yeah.
- [31:20]
A
If that makes sense. And that's. It feels. I agree. And it. I wondered, I thought a lot about whether that's. I mean I think there's no question that we're seeing that shift in romance or I mean, we had seen that shift. It has happened.
- [31:36]
B
Yeah.
- [31:37]
A
And the books just aren't quite there.
- [31:42]
B
Well, you know, I had this thought and I sort of, I sort of auditioned this thought on Blue sky this week because of course, heated rivalry is very sexy. Not just hot, but sexy. And, and the storytelling through the sex is terrific. I will, I will include a really great article by Jenny Hamilton, I think is her name, who wrote about sort of like she writes this series called Anatomy of a Sex Scene on her blog. And she wrote about heated rivalry and it was like a really strong defense of something, like we say all the time. Right. Which is like sex is doing work in romance. Right. It's telling us about the characters in their relationship. I've had lots of really interesting conversations on our discord about this and how it's working in the show. And I found myself thinking, well, if you're writing romance in 2025, almost 2026, and you don't know that and you don't believe it, then maybe one of the reasons that the books feel like they aren't working is because like a sort of thing that romance has always done really well, using physical intimacy to sort of tell the relationship story is like we've like thrown out one of our most useful tools. Maybe we've lost the plot in romance because we've literally lost the plot. And that plot being the physical intimacy arc of these people is going to tell us something about who they are and where they are in their relationship.
- [33:17]
A
Yeah, I mean, there's something, obviously we've talked about this before and I don't know, sometimes everybody. We also have this. If you're on the Patreon, you know that once a, once a month we do an, an extra episode and that's an episode where Jen and I really like dig deep on like something craft related or some theme that we're seeing in romance. So I'm not sure if I talked about this on main, this, this podcast or in banter on the Patreon.
- [33:41]
B
But.
- [33:43]
A
You know, I think obviously we can tell a lot about. If we think about romance as like. And genre in general as like holding up a mirror. Right. A lot has been going on in sex in the books. Like the sex means something. It meant something in 70s, it means something. It meant something in the 90s, it means something today.
- [34:05]
B
Right.
- [34:07]
A
And I think I spoke certainly this year at some point about the fact that I see there's like a significant lack of, you know, the sort of golden rule of sex and romance, which was always, like, she comes first. Like, she comes first. She comes twice for every time he comes once. Like, that rule seems to be, like, out the window on a lot of books now. We're not seeing as much oral, like, oral for women. We're seeing more focus on blowjobs than we are on cunnilingus. We're seeing. There are trends that are very clear in romance. And I think what's interesting is we're seeing the contemporary romance, to a certain extent, sort of chased toward the really big names. Right?
- [35:00]
B
Yeah.
- [35:00]
A
Abby Jimenez writes Closed Door. Emily Henry's romances have, like, one or two sex scenes. And they are set. They are like, those books are horny, but, like, the sex scenes are very short. Right. And so I think. I think there is a certain. And I will say, I have always said this. Anytime anybody's like, oh, you know, editors are pushing authors, too. I will say that in my 15 years of doing this job, I have never been pushed by an editor to make something sexier or less sexy. What I will say is that a lot of editors have said to me, authors do it themselves.
- [35:40]
B
Like, they're the internalized.
- [35:42]
A
Whatever look at Abby or Emily and say, oh, they're writing, like, less sexy or less overtly sexy on page. And so I'm gonna pull back. And so, like, it's just all the question is, like, are we doing it ourselves or is it the market that's asking for it?
- [36:03]
B
And.
- [36:04]
A
And I don't have an answer to that. Right. It's the chicken or egg conundrum. But I mean, it's. Ally is certainly not pulling her punches. And she sells, you know, the market, loves her books.
- [36:14]
B
Sure. Well, I wonder how. I wonder. You know what? Here's the thing I would say about, like, Back to Heated Rival, which is, like, the sexiest thing I've seen lately. And Red. Right. Or not red, but, like, you know, in terms of, like, romance. And I was like, you know, I think the thing I kept thinking is, like, when you watch it, though, you're like, this is a show that's being made for grownups. Yeah.
- [36:34]
A
But also, Jen, it's a show that's being made for grownups based on a book that came out before this movie.
- [36:39]
B
Well. And also made in Canada.
- [36:42]
A
Made in Canada. Right.
- [36:43]
B
I mean, like, I don't think we can discount the American. The very American problem of, like, rising fascism, book bans. Right. Like, all of the things that are going to impact people and make them think, like, if I am paying my bills by writing these books, then I need to probably make sure that my books can stay on the shelves. I mean, I don't. Again, I can't speak to that. But like, for sure it just felt like watching this, it was impossible. And I'm not the only person or the first person to say it that had this show been made by HBO Max instead of just airing on HBO Max, it probably would have been different. And I think that it's not just that. So anyway, I mean, it's just really interesting and I think we should probably talk about some of these debuts.
- [37:27]
A
Yeah, let's do it.
- [37:30]
B
This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Mariah Scarpolini, author of the Titans Rose.
- [37:38]
A
This one is for our Greek mythology girlies framed for a crime he didn't commit. Udais is the forbidden son of Hades, cursed by Zeus to live in exile as a terrifying beast. But when war erupts between Olympus and the underworld, Athena's mortal born daughter Aria is caught in the crossfire. She is forbidden from seeing her mother until she proves herself and she has to navigate this world of betrayal and ancient magic and divine politics on a quest for justice. And I'm guessing she's gonna have to negotiate that terrifying beast. So as the Titans prepare to destroy the universe and loyalties fracture, Udice and Arya have to choose. Saving the realms or each other. This one is a Beauty and the Beast retelling and is for anybody who loves a cursed hero and a forbidden love. Which is all of us, let's be honest.
- [38:38]
B
Agree. So if you are interested in checking out the Titans Rose, please know that Mariah is also really building a world and a fan base before the debut launches. So check out voting on the book cover, taking quizzes to discover your divine parent, seeing your name appear as a character, and even enjoying a curated Spotify playlist. Step into a world you won't want to leave surrounded by characters you will love.
- [39:05]
A
If you want to be among the first to enter the world of the Titans Rose, you can visit fatedmates.net Mariah that's M A R I A H which will redirect you to Mariah's page where you can sign up to learn more about the book. You can also follow Mariah on Instagram at Mariah Scarpellini, Author Links to all of this will be in show notes and thanks to Mariah Scarpolini for sponsoring this week's episode. I am going to start with what I'm going to start with the Best Worst Thing by Lauren Okey, which was recommended to me multiple times by people who were looking for. When I said, like, I was looking for a debut book. And the reason why I want to talk about this book is because this book is messy. And I don't mean it's messy in the writing, I mean it is messy in the story.
- [40:03]
B
I was really drawn to mess before you get started if your book was messy.
- [40:08]
A
I have a couple that are messy.
- [40:10]
B
And I was like, thank you. Let people be messy.
- [40:13]
A
And now listen. And I wanna content warn this book is fully not for everyone. Like, I wanna say that off the bat, which again, like, that often means, like, if somebody's like, this book is not for everyone. I'm like, give that to me. Let me read that first. So the premise of this book is our heroine is going through severe infertility issues. She has been, she is married. She has been married for a long time. And she and her husband have been going through fertility treatments, IVF for at least two years. And they are, the, the, the structure of their IVF is that they have a surrogate, but they are taking, they are taking an egg from the heroine and sperm from her husband, and then they are like, implanting the egg into their surrogate because she can't carry a child. And so it begins with this sort of like, you know, a very, very sort of intense couple of chapters where you're deep in the, like, muck of the emotional churn of this kind of hope despair. Hope despair of ivf. And this is not an experience I've ever personally gone through. So I, I, you know, I. Your mileage may vary on this and I just want to, like, name it, you know, so they, they extract the eggs, they implant them into the surrogate. She comes home from a trip, she walks into their apartment thinking that her husband is not there, and discovers that he has been having an affair with their dog walker. And it is brutal. It is a brutal moment. Okie does not pull away from it. It is, you know, she is wrecked. She goes to her, you know, her sister, she goes to her best friend. She is like, it's over. Like, we're, I'm not doing this like this man. And like, there is something very raw about the emotional state of this heroine at the beginning of this book where, like, she is like, I have put everything into, like, having a child with this man. And he has been, it turns out, like, cheating on her for a long time. And she leaves. So she leaves him. She's basically like, this is Over. But of course, it's not over because the surrogate is pregnant. And there is. And this is a complex situation where, like, again, sort of. I feel like this is a romance that is doing something that I've never quite seen done this way because the husband is in the picture in this book in a, like, messy, gross, like, kind of everything about this marriage falling apart is terrible kind of way. Right. But at some point in the past, the heroine had a. A, like, guy at work who she had a great relationship with. Like, not a sexual relationship. He was, like, her work husband. And they flirted and they were happy. And the book is written in dual timeline where we sort of go back and we see this kind of years ago, this opportunity. There was a chance for another path. And she didn't take that path because she had this, like. She had this. This man. She was in a committed relationship. It was just like a missed connection. But it's like her best friend and her sister are both like, oh, like, Lucas was always sort of a possibility. Like, what if. What if you just, like, explored that with him and, like, just had sex and, like, enjoyed yourself and, like, you know, took your body back in a lot of ways. Like, there's this sort of very kind of. Of freeing sort of moment here where she thinks, okay, and then she goes to him and he kind of gets it. Like.
- [44:25]
B
Yeah.
- [44:26]
A
She doesn't tell him, though, about the. The surrogate who's pregnant. She doesn't tell him that. Like, there's a legal mess here. Like, if they divorce before the baby's born, like, what happens to the child? Like, there's a lot of mess here, Jen. And again, like, I don't know that this book. I. In fact, I will tell you, this book is definitely not for everyone. But, like, what is happening on the pages of this book is very interesting to me. It's. You know, I will say, like, it has this, like, wildly sexy first kiss that comes, you know, sort of.
- [45:00]
B
They're in a.
- [45:00]
A
They're in his car, and it feels, like, hot and, like, humid. And it feels like something that they've just. They have both wanted this and deserve this for years, but they haven't been able to have it. It. Even though, like, she's. It's. She really, like, threads this beautiful needle where it's like, it's never. She wasn't intellectually cheating. It wasn't. She was. She was not, like, lingering on this man. But, like, there's just this moment where you feel like these two really were meant for each other. And it just didn't happen then, but maybe it can happen now. You know, I. I mean, there's some really charming moments here. There's. And then, like, there's this kind of. Of constant. This sort of push, pull. Obviously there's lots of reasons why they can't be together, but that there's really a beautiful moment where she realizes, like, they're about to have sex and, like, it's gonna happen. And she. They're both in it. Like, it is. And you're in it as a reader. You're like, let's do this. And then she thinks to herself, like, oh, I can't. And it's not because she's still married or, like, whatever, because that's over. And, like, we all know that's over. It's because she hasn't told him the truth. Truth about, like, the surrogate, the life, the, like, all the past, like, mess. And she thinks to herself, like, we're strangers. Even though they've known each other for so long and they clearly care about each other, like, this is a complex way of looking at, like, two humans.
- [46:23]
B
Yeah.
- [46:23]
A
Finding each other. And it's very messy. And I. I did enjoy it.
- [46:29]
B
Yeah.
- [46:30]
A
You know, and I think this is a. This is a writer who, like, I will. I will be very interested in reading her novel next book.
- [46:36]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [46:37]
A
So that is Lauren Okey's the best worst thing. Okay.
- [46:41]
B
Well, it sounds like we're going from, like, if we're starting with messy, let's do mess. Well, I'm gonna start with my. The book that I thought, like. And by mess, I don't. I mean in this case, like, I. So my book is gonna be Once Upon a Time in Dollywood by Ashley Jordan. And I would say I would not call this, like, a mess in the same way necessarily. Although to me, what. I mean, when I'm talking about mess, it means, like, these are deeply human characters with lives that are in a mess. Right. These are people who are struggling for whatever reason. And so in Once Upon a Time in Dollywood, it starts off with Eve, who is a playwright in New York City who has just had a. Like a second miscarriage in. In a pretty short turnaround time with her fiance. And she. It's this awful scene where they're sitting in his therapist's office, and she did not want to go. She did not want to go talk about her miscarriage with, like. Right. And she's just so fucking furious at, like, sort of being made to perform a certain kind of, like, Feeling right for the sake of this therapist and this man. And it's really clear from the narration that like she is actually. She desperately wants a child. You know, she's had these two miscarriages. They're. She and this. I can't remember the fiance's name, Leo. Are not very happy in other ways. But you know, they've sort of stuck it out because of this. And then they go to like her parent and then she basically like just. It's great, like gets up and walks out. It's just like, I can't do this.
- [48:27]
A
Nice.
- [48:28]
B
Goes to her parents house who live, you know, again I think in Brooklyn. And they are also like, she's. And it's really interesting because you think like what she wants to do is go home and tell them what she's gone through. And instead she's like withholding from them too. And what she basically decides is that she is. So she basically like walks out on her relationship with Leo. Walks. Walks out on her parents and goes to her grandmother's like cottage outside of Gatlinburg, Tennessee where she had spent time as a teenager. And she has not been to this. She has not been to this house. Her grandmother's just died and sort of like now I can't remember. It doesn't really matter if the house has been left to her parents still own it or whatever. So she goes to this little cottage and she's like, you know, she's a playwright. She's like, I'm gonna have writing to do. I'm just gonna. I need a brain break. And so she basically just like walks out of her life. So then as she's like walking around in this like sort of new not neighborhood really because it's like pretty secluded. She sees this white man, Jamie, who's basically like, kind of like, who are you? And she's like, oh, great. Now this, right? Like he's going to think I'm stealing or right, like whatever. And it turns out that Jamie was her has like a house up there. It was her grandmother's neighbor. He loved her grandmother too and was like, oh my gosh, you're her, you know, her granddaughter. And they strike up this sort of tentative like friendship, right? Cause he's like, you don't have groceries, you don't have heat in your cottage, you need firewood. And it's really. And he in the meantime has just had a long relationship with a woman and had to go that she found her cheating on him. They never got married. Cause she kind of wouldn't marry him. But they do have an eight year old son. And he had to sue for full custody because this, you know, essentially like he wanted to like, kind of figure out how can we share custody. And his, you know, this woman was. I can't remember her name either. Always trying to like, essentially like she wanted full custody, but she doesn't have any money. Jamie's basically supporting her, right? Like, these two are messy, messy lives, lots going on. And what we find out is like then though, when they're up in the mountains together, right, they become friends and then they become kind of tentative lovers. Although, like the. This book is probably one of the sexier books too. And like the first couple times they fool around, we get like how deeply traumatized Eve is around sex. And it turns out that the reason she had spent that time with her grandmother as a teenager was because she had sex on her prom night, got pregnant and her parents essentially like, like cast her out. They sent her to her grandmothers and forced her to give up the baby for adoption. And it's devastating. And basically everything about Eve's life, it's almost like Arrested Development, right? Everything about Eve's. Eve's life, like what she thought she wanted for herself, what she thinks about herself as a sexual being. The kinds of relationships he's. She's had were sort of of, I don't know, like just like frozen at that time period where her whole like, right, this one dumb teenage mistake, her parents are very religious, essentially gets treated as, you know, the worst kind of teenage rebellion. And it's really a beautiful and heartbreaking book. I found, like, full of feelings, which is what I wanted, right? Like, so as Jamie is sort of kind of like come to Nashville, like meet the family. Like, she can't even bear to talk about his son. Cause it's too painful for her, right? She has Leo that she basically like walked out on, right? She's still sharing an apartment with him in New York. She has her parents who she's basically cut off and like won't talk to anymore. And it's like she sort of has to like allow like refine who she is in this really real way. And Jamie is someone who helps her do it. But he is also messy.
- [52:38]
A
It's not like he.
- [52:38]
B
You know what I really liked about this book? It would have been very easy for him to be just like generic good guy who's like waiting around for her to like get her shit together. But he is also right. Someone, this woman cheated on him. He's not sure he can trust Eve. Why? Why can't she like just like give him this, right? Why, why is she so afraid of talking about Leo? And so the way that they. It's like like two porcupines, right? Like, and, and I think that's the part that I would also say about this book is, you know, no one hearing all that is going to be surprised here that a third, third act breakup comes. But it is one of those third act breakups where when it happens you're like, well, of course this was going to happen. It's deeply rooted in all of the ways that they can't be together yet. They're not ready for it. It's so perfectly done. And it's also the kind of thing where when it all goes down, you literally. I literally thought to myself, I am so sympathetic to both of them. And I think that that to me is the part about this book by Ashley Jordan that makes her like wonder, really watch for me is here she has taken two broken people and we can see that they will be perfect for each other. But she is not alone afraid to like let them be broken. And she's also not afraid to like let them be mean to each other to say kind of shitty things to, you know. And I just found it really probably one of the most rewarding reading experiences I had this year. I really, really loved it. So.
- [54:20]
A
Well, it sounds like she's doing a ton of character work.
- [54:23]
B
The character work was so good. Yeah. So it was, it was terrific. Once upon a time in Dollywood.
- [54:32]
A
This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Atria Books, publishers of the upcoming debut romance Bloodbound by Alice Hunter.
- [54:41]
B
So this is a debut romantasy. It's a high stakes fantasy romance trilogy set against a once in a generation duel to the death between rival witches and dragon riders. The stakes of the battle is the source of their magic. One of our main characters is Astrid. She has always known that she's destined to die. She's the last witch and heir to a queendom. But that has been cursed by the centuries old covenant to participate in this duel with the heir to the kingdom of Vatra. And Astrid's time is now up. She has to head into enemy territory to face Prince Xiron, the most powerful dragon rider in ages. With only her familiar, her potions and her wits to aid her, she knows she's going to die. And if she does, her chance at a queendom and of carrying the blight that's ravaging her lands will die with her. Meanwhile Deep in Dragon Country, Skylar and her traveling troupe arrive in Vratra's capital, ready to profit off the legions of spectators swarming the city ahead of the duel. She despises these royals and all they stand stand for. Especially since the king's guard murdered her mother. So when her friend disappears, suspected to have been taken into conscription, her search takes her closer to the royals than she ever could have imagined. As this duel looms over the kingdom, Skyler and Astrid's fates intertwine. They must battle a growing rebellion, their inner demons, and ultimately those they love most, to determine if if together, they can save or doom their world.
- [56:18]
A
This debut fantasy is available right now for pre order. You can pre order the deluxe edition with a re jacket, sprayed edges, design end papers, and a foiled stamp case right now, wherever you get your books and if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Atria Books and Ellis Hunter for sponsoring this week's episode. Well, I'm gonna go continue on Mess. Okay, but I also. But this one is a real different kind of mess. So I picked up Annie Mare's Cosmic Love at the Multiverse Hair salon because the owners of Pocketbook shop in Lancaster, Pennsylvania put it on their best of the year list. So everybody, you know, Pocket does our book box, which is which you can look at our best. You can get 8 of our 10 best of the yearbooks@fadedmates.net bookbox but if you go to that page also you can add on to the book box some of the Pocketbooks favorite romances. And this was on their list. And actually when I went in to sign a bunch of copies of Storms when it first came out in the summer, I said what are you guys reading? And two people there were like, you gotta read Cosmic Love at the Multiverse Hair salon, which I immediately bought there. And then of course like sure sat on my bedside table and did not look at until two weeks ago. But what a fucking charming book.
- [57:46]
B
Love it, Jen.
- [57:47]
A
I had a great time reading this. I actually. Okay, so the, the structure here is on first at first glance I was like, I'm not sure this is for Sarah. And then I was like, wait a second. I think this might like have unlocked a new for Sarah.
- [58:03]
B
Ooh, fun.
- [58:04]
A
So okay, here's the premise. There are Tresephae, our first heroine is has. Is like a Instagram star slash like hair stylist. And she has this she like dresses, she's super sexy. She's like, she has is really, like, deeply free and, like, has, like, basically no inhibitions. And she posts pictures of herself, like, dressed in, like, wild, fun outfit, like, oftentimes very sexy outfits at her hair salon, where she is sort of magic with scissors. Not magic. Real magic. Magic.
- [58:50]
B
Okay.
- [58:51]
A
Because there's a lot of weird stuff that goes on in this book, but I want to be clear. No one's a witch. So the. So she is sort of famous in this. In this play, in this, like, city where, you know, to. For hairstyling. And also she's, like, kind of a minor media celebrity or social media celebrity. She is also kind of, like, not that interested. She's come out of bad relationship. She's not really. She's not really ready for a relationship. And so on a night when a bunch of her friends are all, like, planning to go to a bar and, like, meet new people, she's like, I'm going home to, like, eat soup and sit with my cat. And so she goes home and she gets a accidental text message, which, you know, like, immediately I'm like, like, whatever's gonna happen here is gonna be so fun. She gets this sort of accidental text from this woman named Meryl who is at a bar who's just been, like. Who's, like, checking to see she's there on a blind date. And, like, she texts Tressa Faye's phone, think, looking for her date, and it has the wrong number. Her date stands her up that night. And so she and Tressa Faye, like, Like. Like have like, a flirty text exchange. And Tressa Fay is like, this is amazing. I haven't felt this way about a person in a long time. And she's like, actually, you know what? Stay where you are. I'm gonna come to the bar and meet you. She goes to the bar, and she gets there, and Meryl is not. She can't find Meryl. Meryl's like, I'm at the bar. I ordered, like, margaritas or whatever. I have a picture of margaritas. I'm waiting for you. And Tres Fe's like, I'm at the bar, and you are not here. Like, Like. And. And then she, like, talks to the hostess, and the hostess is like, we haven't served margaritas all night. Like, I don't. Yeah, there's. And. And so she's like, fuck this lady. Like, this is like, an intense gas.
- [60:42]
B
Yeah, like, I'm being bullshit, right?
- [60:46]
A
And she's basically like, never text me again. Lose my number. She blocks the number, and then that's that. The next day she's, like, thinking about it, and she's like, this sucks. Like, I really felt, like, so connected to her. Like, I don't understand why she would feel this way. Like, she doesn't. She had given her, like, an Instagram account, and she went to look at it, and, like, this person seems very wholesome and nerdy, and she realizes. And so she decides she's going to message the Instagram account and just say, like, listen, I'm pretty sure I was catfished last night by somebody using your information, your Persona. So she does, and then that's the end of that. That a couple days later, she turns. Like, she turns up. Or that somebody comes into the books, the bookstore, the hair salon, and it's two people, and they're like, how could you have possibly. Like, don't you understand how cruel it is that you chose two days ago to message Meryl? You know, when you stood her up six months ago, and then a month ago she went missing. And, like, what the is wrong with you? And it's Meryl's sister and Meryl's ex boyfriend who is now her best friend. And they are like, what the. And she's like, hang on a second. And it turns out that Meryl. She looks at the, like, date stamps on her texts. And Meryl's texts have come through in May. Yeah, but it's October in the.
- [62:15]
B
In the book. So weird.
- [62:17]
A
And so I know it's like a very. So then, like, the whole thing is about, like, multiverse theory. And, like, Meryl goes missing, and then instantly, her best friend is former boyfriend is like, tell her. So what they discover is that Tresephae can text Meryl through space and time. And so her boyfriend or her ex boyfriend or best friend now is like. Like, tell her not to go to, like, this bar that she went missing from in September. And so she does. And then instantly in the book, Jen, they all have a shift in their memory where they're like, she didn't go missing from the bar, she went missing from her apartment. Like, and they remember, but they're still like, this is a. It's like a break in the multiverse, right? Because it's like they remember both things as being true. And, like, so then it's sort of like, Meryl is a genius. She's, like, super sciencey and nerdy and she. So she and Tressa Fae start, like, running experiments, like, to try and figure it out. And then, like, Meryl goes to Tressa Fae's hair salon in May, but, like, alters the future, like, alters the way Tresephe feels about her in October. Like, it's so cool. And the whole time, like, first of all, all, very clever, like, very carefully threaded, very carefully, like, interwoven to make sure that it all makes sense. And also so that, like, a dummy like me can, like, follow. But also there's this, like, great moment where. And of course, there's sort of this big mystery that there's this looming disappearance. Right? So, like, we know that Meryl is in danger the whole time. We don't know why. We don't know what's gonna happen to her. And then, like. But at the same time, like I said, it's incredibly charming. It's a huge cast of characters. This is a sapphic romance filled with, like, a bunch of queer characters. It feel. It's really a massive community. It's lovely. But there's this great moment where, you know, one of their friends is trying to explain how multiverses work. And she said, all your love exists everywhere, all the time.
- [64:32]
B
Oh, I love that.
- [64:33]
A
And it's so beautiful because it feels like that is how love is. Like, it does exist everywhere, all the time. And I. I just. It's interesting because I thought about, you know, the. The Oki book. I told you, like, the part. One of the charming things about that book is that it feels like these two, like, they just missed their chance.
- [64:52]
B
Yeah.
- [64:53]
A
And like, this cosmic love at the multiverse hair salon is like. Like they. They're just trying to find their chance.
- [64:59]
B
Find their chance. I love it.
- [65:01]
A
And it's so charming. And I. I really loved it.
- [65:06]
B
I am definitely gonna read that. Cause, you know, I love, like, a book that fucks around with time. This reminds me, listen, if you're like, that sounds cool, but you have some, like, litfic reader in your life. One of my favorite lit fix books like this is called Version Control by Dexter Palmer. It's a fucking banger. It's great.
- [65:23]
A
Okay, cool. So, I mean, it seems complicated to write, honestly.
- [65:27]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, but you keep it all. Yeah, well. And yes. So I'm really excited about this also. We are planning to do a time travel episode, everybody.
- [65:35]
A
So, yeah. So this will come back probably on.
- [65:38]
B
That episode, of course. Okay.
- [65:40]
A
All right.
- [65:41]
B
I am going to talk about Hopelessly Devoted.
- [65:47]
A
Oh, boy.
- [65:48]
B
By Audrey Goldberg Roth. And I've got to tell you, everybody, I really was like, I'm not gonna like this one, because I don't know why. I don't know why I decided I wasn't gonna like this one, I think I have a very specific, like, window for reading witchy romances. And it is not, like, 10 days before Christmas. So, whatever, I was wrong. This one's delightful. And then I was kind of like, oh, maybe I should wait till next Halloween. I don't care. Okay, so. And one of the things that I really liked about this book, I think, is there are quite a few things, but I would say the most important right in the. There are, like, a lot of things this book does well. But the thing that I really love that this book did well was, like, lean into a truly unbelievable amount of plot.
- [66:39]
A
Right.
- [66:39]
B
Like. Okay. And I was, like, instantaneously, like, I am not sure that. Right. Like, in a future. Future books by this author, maybe they would be talked into, like, doing a little less or streamlining it or, like, cleaning it up or whatever. And I was kind of, like, chilling out. Yeah. And I was like, no, bring it on. Cause there are so many books now where nothing happens. And, like, an insane amount of things happen in this book. Okay, so in the book, the main characters are as. His real name is Azrael Ashemadi Hart. He is twice named after a witch. And his parents basically are like, like. And he's a witch. No, twice named after the devil. He's a witch who is twice named after the devil, but he's not evil. And his parents very much are, like, in the. Like, wildly in love. Like. Like the Addams Family. Like, Right. Like, just like, the whole vibe was, like, Morticia Adams and whatever. I guess. I can't remember his name.
- [67:39]
A
Gomez.
- [67:40]
B
Gomez. Jesus. Like, good Lord. Anyway, and meanwhile, Vicky is our heroine, and her parents are, like, the richest people in town, but they are, like, ice cold, just terrible people. Everybody hates. And when the book opens, as is about to. They're essentially about to leave for college. He's kind of wildly in love with Vicky. Has been his whole life, but he just cannot bring himself to, like, sort of tell her the truth about his feelings. Feelings. And so he, like, gets on the plane to go to California, and she, you know, he wants to be a screenwriter. And, you know, and she is gonna stay in their, like, small town in, I don't know, everybody, whatever. Vermont, Maine, one of those. Okay, sorry. And what happens is then we, like, pick up. And now it. It's, I guess, seven years later, right? They're 25, 26, actually. She turns 26 now. Book. So. And his parents. And this, again, I thought this was, like, a really interesting choice, right? His parents have died due to, like, Essentially like a pandemic, but that is only hitting like sort of magical people, right? And it, it's kind of very Covid coded, right? Like, there's not really like they're not even trying to pretend that that's not the case case. But it's had like a really specific impact on the ability of like, remaining magical people to travel. And so when his parents died as like was not able to be there for the like, funeral and you know, he's finally sort of like made his way back home. Meanwhile, we find out that Vicky's parents had made a deal with the devil when she was a baby. And they essentially like, the deal was, is that they would be like, rich and powerful and famous. Famous, you know, not famous, but rich and powerful. And you know, that they would be collecting souls on behalf of this devil that they'd made the deal with. And in return, it turns out though, that like, the magical power they bargained for, they gave to Vicky. So she's like, been at their beck and call her entire life in a very disgusting and kind of gross way. And the book starts with her essentially deciding that she has to like, break up with her parents. And they're like, if you do this, we're gonna disown you. And she's like, I don't care. And she, what she wants to do is she's like, I've done all of these things for you in order to make you rich and famous and use this like, skill I didn't even want. And what it is is that she can talk to ghosts. And in return, all I'm asking is for you to let me buy hopelessly to voted, which is like, as is parents tea shop that they loved in town. And they're like, we're not gonna let you buy that garbage tea shop. And so she's like, well, fuck you, disown me, I'll go buy it myself. And this is sort of like how the book starts, is right? Like, essentially, as comes back to town, he is grief stricken over the death of his parents. He has his sister still there, but just his like, guilt and shame over somehow like not being able to be there or not being affected. Meanwhile, Vicky is. I'm trying to run this, you know, tea shop that was your parents. And that is like really a. I don't know, like a testament and honor to like, their love and how they felt for each other. And then it turns out, you know, like the devil who her parents made the deal with shows up and is like, well, you're Gonna have to, like, finish up the bargain. So I'm gonna need three more souls from you. And he, you know, and as is, like, what, you made a deal with the devil, right? And it turns out that there's like, a mega church.
- [71:29]
A
God damn it.
- [71:30]
B
Right? And she's like, well, he's kind of handsome. And he's like, they're always handsome. No one makes a good deal with like, like, you know what I mean? And then there's like a mega church in town that is like kind of the pure, like, of the real evil in town, of course, is being headquartered there. And like, the two of them have to like, figure it out. Now here's the thing. Like, I. So I was kind of delighted by how plotty it was. I was delighted by, like, the really fun banter and the like, like, I don't know, like, the world building, frankly. Right. Like, the idea about, like, what Az's magic actually was and how it worked and. Well, how her magic worked. Like, essentially if she can hold someone's like a beloved object from someone, she can like, talk to the dead and like, sort of interview them almost on the behalf of, like, someone else. And so, like, there's a really heartbreaking scene where Az is like, I just want to talk to my parents. And again. Right. Like, from beyond the grave. And. And I. So all of this is to say I was really delighted by kind of like the zaniness of all of that. The plot, the story, the town, the townspeople, the tea shop. Right. Like, all this stuff. Another thing I thought that the book did really well and I think it's really hard to do well is utilizing texting as storytelling. Right. The truth is, in our modern world, people do a lot of texting. Yeah. And the thing about Vicki and as is during college they had essentially like a kind of a one night stand. Like, they see each other and then as like, gets cold feet and like, kind of backs off and it broke her heart. And they. They've been essentially estranged now. So, like, right. Seven years ago he went away for college. Five years ago, this all went down. And you really see them rebuilding their relationship, their friendship, via text. And I think it's really effective, like the teasing and the banter and. Right. Like, and I just found myself thinking, like, this is really how people are now.
- [73:42]
A
Right.
- [73:42]
B
And I think that, you know, sometimes in a book, all I want is like, okay, just text once or twice so that I know that you're doing it. But this book really leans into lots of texting as a way of, like, showing us what they're willing to say to each other and what they aren't and how you get a text and it's like, you know, you just see the three dots. But now we are seeing, like, what is really, really causing someone to kind of pause and what they're thinking. And I just thought it was really effective. They. The author, I think, pulls a lot of business to kind of keep these two apart. That I think would be. Have been frustrating, frankly, if had not been, like, a debut. Right. Like, at the beginning, you're like, these two have been wildly in love with each other all along. Why can't they be together right now? Well, because that devil has put, like, a curse on them so they can't touch each other. Fine, fine. I'll allow it. But, you know, fine, I'll allow it. But there was a lot of, like, blocking, for lack of a better word. But it also, I think, was utilized in a great way. Like, there's a really sexy scene where they, like, mutually masturbate and just watch each other. My favorite, because they can't touch each other. So I do think that there are ways, like, that really worked. And overall, though, I just. The writing delighted me. The observations about the world, the way that they were relating to each other, the town and how it was made. So this was a book that I really like. Again, I had that. I fell right into it feeling. And because there was an insane amount of plot, it really, like, kept me going. Yeah. And I. I loved it. That's the whole.
- [75:16]
A
That's. I mean, people complain all the time. They're like, I don't want my romance to have plot.
- [75:20]
B
Yes, you do. Yes, you do.
- [75:21]
A
That's how the pages turn.
- [75:22]
B
Yes.
- [75:22]
A
Like, yeah, that's literally how we do the job.
- [75:25]
B
Yeah. Yeah. There's a really cute bit where, like, nobody's coming to the tea shop, but as has this, like, he can, like, snap his fingers and, like, work magic. And so she's always like, what's he doing back there? And he's, like, making it so, like, that the smell of tea is, like, wafting further down the street so that people will, like, come into the business. And it's really cute. Yeah, it's great. Hopelessly to voted.
- [75:49]
A
That's adorable.
- [75:50]
B
Yeah, it was great. It is adorable.
- [75:53]
A
All right, I'm gonna talk about plot, but also mess, but also, like, okay, so people have been telling me that I should read Lindsay Barrett's Savannah Royals for a long time, and I. Again, this is another one that's, like, Been sitting on my bedside table, and I finally picked it up, and I had a great time with this. So this book is set in the nineteen teens in Savannah, and it is about a group of kids who are orphaned and left to themselves. Like, they sort of find each other kind of Oliver Twists or not Oliver Twist. What's the one with Fagin? Is that Oliver Twist? Who. Who gets it?
- [76:42]
B
I think so, yes.
- [76:43]
A
I was like, it's like one of those Dickens groups.
- [76:46]
B
I was like, that feels like a pop quiz, Sarah. I wasn't ready. Had not done my Dickens reading for the week.
- [76:51]
A
Anyway.
- [76:51]
B
My dick reading. Yes. Dickens reading. Okay.
- [76:56]
A
Carol's gone. Heated rivalry. Carol's gone.
- [76:58]
B
Everybody. It's fine.
- [77:02]
A
Anyway, so it. Basically, a group of, like, orphans find themselves in the catacombs of Savannah. I didn't know there were catacombs underneath Savannah.
- [77:09]
B
But either. There we go.
- [77:11]
A
And they become like a criminal group, like a little gang, okay, Called the Savannah Wool, called the Wolves. And as they age, they become tougher and tougher. And it's three boys and a girl Cat. And as they get older. And so initially, Cat's sort of invisible. She's, like, little and sort of girl. She's a girl. She's a child, and she's nimble, and she can, like, pick a pocket, and she's really useful. And then as she ages and becomes, like, more voluptuous and more beautiful her role, they realize, like, they can't hide her anymore. Like, she can't be invisible now. She has to be very visible. And so what they decide is that they're going to use her as she will become, like, the. The one of the four of them who will enter into kind of Savannah society. They'll pass her into Savannah society, and then she'll be there, like, link so that they can start robbing, like, really doing real crime. Like, they're gonna. They're gonna.
- [78:20]
B
She's.
- [78:20]
A
She's like a master thief.
- [78:22]
B
She's a jewel.
- [78:23]
A
A jewel thief. And they are like, that's what they're gonna do. So that's the plan. And, you know, Lindsay gives us a little bit of. She gives us a fair amount, actually, of, like, the backstory of these kids and how they come to be Cat Falls is kind of like. She doesn't really have a choice. She's young, and the rest of them are young. And it sort of becomes very clear that, like, like, she and Paul, the, like, leader of this gang who is, like, a year older than her, are, like, meant to be. And so, you know, they have like, he has a king of diamonds tattoo and she has a queen of diamonds tattoo. And like there. It's kind of like everyone sort of agrees like she and Paul are fated. And then there's another guy in the group, Abe, who is like. It becomes clear that like Cat and Paul have kind of an open relationship and sometimes like Abe like joins them and sometimes Cat like you know, sleeps with Abe. And like it's a. This is a very sexy book where like you know, Cat is very. There's something very interesting that Barret is doing here with class that like, you know, there is a. Cat's not as. There's like she's not ashamed of her like sexual skill. She's not ashamed of her sexual history. She, she doesn't think there's you know, she's just very like open. Yeah. And she and Paul have this sort of like open relationship. But there's always a little bit of like an edge with Paul and you're not really sure like what's up with that. And then you. So Cat has been. They've like cobbled together enough money and not, I mean they, they've like, they're in like a crime. Talk about a book with a lot of plot. There's also like a rival gang. They're doing like a crime war situation. They have a lot of money. So they've taken all this money and they've sent Kat to essentially like a financial finishing school where she's like being finished along with like Asters and Vanderbilts and sort of. They're not like the New York ones. They're like the you know, second cousins who still are like rich and, and like fancy but they're rich and fancy Georgia, not rich and fancy New York City. So she goes to this like finishing school where she meets all these people and the idea is like she will one, be finished at this school and then two, she'll meet all their brothers and so then like she'll find her way into society. Right. And Paul's basically like it's us but like you gotta go find like a Vanderbilt, an Aster or whatever. So she finds this guy Matthew who is like a doctor and like the second son of like a great American family and you know, up in you know, a made up one but like friends with the Astors and in the Vanderbilts. And Matthew, this doctor is like hot and he is, you know, he's, he's brilliant and he's committed and he is su. He like comes off as being just like this perfect, perfect Like Prince. And then you become really. It becomes very clear very quickly that, like, Matthew is also, like, kinky as.
- [81:31]
B
Oh, I like that.
- [81:32]
A
And he's like, well, let me write this down. Game recognizes game, right? And so Kat, every time she, like, turns up at one of these, like, you know, 400 club meetings in Savannah, he, like, at a party, the two of them sort of, like, find their way into these, like, very sexy, flirty experiences. And then they, like, play, like, strip pool and, like, they.
- [81:59]
B
Of.
- [82:00]
A
They're very. It gets to be very sexy.
- [82:02]
B
I'm doing a little dance, everyone. You can't see it, but I am doing it.
- [82:06]
A
You all have probably noticed that I've just described a love triangle which is not for Sarah, but is also for Sarah in this one specific case, because there's such a big plot going on here and there's sort of a big sense, like, what is happening here is Cat is having to reckon with the past and the future that the past told her was going to be hers. Right? Like, there was never any question that she would end up with Paul. There was never any question that she would have this, like, kind of very intense relationship with these other boys and that they would all, like, they would run in this pack forever. Yeah, right? The wolf pack was going to exist and they were going to do crime and they were going to rise to be, like, kings and queens of Savannah's crime syndicate. But then there is this moment and so, like, the, you know, Matthew's family has this, like, ruby necklace that's like the, you know, the, you know, the holy grail of, you know, jewels for Cat to steal. Right? Like, it's all sort of. It's all kind of written the way that you would expect. But what's happening here is Cat is having to reckon with, like. But shit, I actually really like this guy and I like him for. Because it. He is. I am. I am. He is the first person I have ever been allowed to choose to, like. Yeah, right. Like, right. With these other relationships, I'm not. It was never a choice. It was just like, obviously I'm. I love Paul. And, like, I should say she really does. Like, it's like she's never interrogated what.
- [83:43]
B
Love of Paul is.
- [83:44]
A
Is because she was just destined for Paul. But, like, all of a sudden, without destiny, like, without that sort of sense of destiny, she is no longer, like, just. She gets to choose Matthew. And he's sexy and fun and bantery, and he is everything that Paul is not. And then it becomes clear that, like, one of these men is definitely not what they seem. And. And she has to navigate this as, like, a grown woman. And it is a really good example. We talk all the time about how romance really needs to be, about characters, evolution. Right. They can't start at the beginning and end in the same place. And this is really about Cat, like, coming to understand who she is.
- [84:32]
B
Yeah.
- [84:33]
A
And, like, what that. And she's not going to turn her back on, like, what she has been and, like, how she walks through the world. Like, this is a very hard woman, but, like, because she's had to be.
- [84:46]
B
She's had to be her that way. Right.
- [84:48]
A
Like, she is a jewel in the sense that, like, she. Pressure has made her. But I just think, like, this is real. It's a really interesting way of telling a. Like an.
- [85:02]
B
A Roman.
- [85:03]
A
And also, I mean, I will say, like, I was like, oh, no, a love triangle. How is this gonna work out? And I had a great time with it. Again, like, I think it's just really interesting. It's a book that I would like to read. Like, this is now a series. It's called the Wolves Crime. Fun novel or whatever. And. And I assume all of them will, you know, be part of it. And we'll. We'll see the others sort of match up. And. And I'm super into it. I also. I'll be honest, I was really refreshed by, like, here's a character who's, like, there's sex on the page in this book. That's, like, not with.
- [85:40]
B
Not with the main characters. Yeah, it doesn't matter.
- [85:42]
A
There is a poly. You know, like, they're. You know, Cat's very free to have sex with other characters. I really enjoyed that. And then, of course, it has one of my favorite microtropes, which is we play a game, and every time I win, you answer a question, which is A plus.
- [85:57]
B
Listen. A plus.
- [85:58]
A
I'm a basic bitch, everybody. That's all I want. It doesn't take much to entertain me. So that's Savannah Royals by Lindsay Barrett. And I really did have a great time with it.
- [86:07]
B
Amazing. Okay, so I am going to talk about a. Listen, everybody. I'm sorry. A basketball romance. And it was great. And the name of it. Why are you apologizing? I don't know. It's very basketbally, which is kind of what I liked, actually. So it's called Play youy for it by Samantha Saldivar. And it. In this book, the two women who are the main characters are both. It takes place in, like, I Don't know. Oregon. It takes place in Eugene, Oregon. It's not Portland. And Samantha Saldivar, I actually was looking this up. She is a. The author was a sports reporter, I think, for a long time. Because I was like, you know, when you're reading something and you're like, wow, this just is so. I don't know, like, so into, like, the. It just felt so real, right? It didn't feel like romance sports. It felt like real sports. Okay, so Jordan d' Amato is one of our women, and she is the first woman to be named as a head coach of the men's NCAA Division 1 basketball team. And so, okay, yeah, at the beginning of the book, her. Her mentor, right, the coach who hired her to work at this college has been hired away to go to the NBA, like, only a couple of weeks before the season. The college basketball season starts. The college basketball and NBA basketball both start in the fall, like, late fall, winter. And so she gets called into her, like, the. You know, I don't know, the director of college sports or whatever. I don't.
- [87:49]
A
You guys.
- [87:50]
B
I don't know. Office. Because essentially, her mentor is like, the job should go to Jordan. Of course he has a team that is that caliber. There's, like, a bunch of assistant coaches, but he's like, jordan basically wrote the playbook. Jordan has the best relationship with these players. Jordan is your. Is your. Your new coach. And the. The guy, you know, the sort of guy at the college is basically like, this is bullshit. And she can tell that he does not want to hire her. He wants to hire one of these other assistant coaches who's a man, but for, you know, whatever reason, it. She gets the job. Now, the other character is a woman named Caroline Beck. And Beck is a sports reporter based out of Portland who essentially is, like, at the. Like, at the. You know, she gets sent down for this, like, you know, kind of dumb. You know, she works at, like, a regional kind of station, and it's, like, small time. And she gets sent down to cover this, and she sees, like, Jordan, and she, like, reads the room, and she calls her boss and is like, it's gonna be Jordan demonic, who's, like, a woman. And she ends up, like, just really having the inside track because she is so willing to just say to Jordan over and over and over again, like, hey, can I be the first one to interview? Can I interview you? Can I interview you? Right? And Jordan's like, okay, no. And she actually finally agrees to it one night when they, like, play a game of Horse.
- [89:27]
A
And nobody else has interviewed her.
- [89:29]
B
Yeah. Right. And Jordan is basically like, I have a job to do. I'm not gonna sit down with CNN or ESPN or anybody else. Like, I am gonna do my job. But because of Beck's persistence, she essentially, like, at one point agrees to, like, being interviewed by her. And it's like, really? Then this great scene where Beck goes back to her, you know, her station, and is like, I got the interview. And they're like, great, this other guy's gonna do it. And she's like, what the fuck are you talking about? And so then when Jordan comes, exactly when shows up at the interview and it's this man, she's like, no, I'm not doing it with you. I am doing it with Beck. Like, this is the person who I trust. And the thing that is really terrific about this book is how it really explores essentially misogyny in the workplace for both of these women and how it is both the same and different. Right. And like, the challenges that they have both faced to sort of get to the position they're in. The way that women are expected to essentially just, like, grin and bear it in the face of, like, gross misogyny and assumptions about who can do the job and who can't. Right. The chances that men get over and over and over again and women do not. And I frankly found this to be something I just really enjoyed reading. Like, I enjoyed reading a book where here you have two women and two very different competitive, like, high powered jobs where they are expected not to be women. And the ways in which they, like, were like, just like, I don't care. This is the job I want. This is what I love. Right. Jordan played in the WNBA and, like, had essentially had an injury that led her into coaching. Beck had older brothers, and she just loved sports her entire life. And her two parents were both kind of big time reporters. And they expected her to, like, be a reporter, but not a sports reporter. And then of course. Okay, so that's like their personal lives, which are like a really great part of the book. But then there's also the. Why can't they be together right now? Well, because Beck is covering Jordan's team.
- [91:52]
A
Yeah.
- [91:52]
B
And so Jordan now. Right. And it's not. Not only that it's not ethical, but, like, for Jordan, it's like, well, if I'm honest with you about things that are going on with me at work, you might cover them like it's a story.
- [92:05]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
- [92:06]
B
And for Beck. Right. And so. And for Beck, it's like, if you aren't. If you have the inside scoop on a story and you won't tell me about it, it's impacting my ability to do my job. Right. And so it was such a. Like a surreal conflict, Right? Yes.
- [92:23]
A
Which is so great.
- [92:24]
B
It was so great. It really was.
- [92:27]
A
Not a f. Relationship in sight.
- [92:29]
B
No. Right. Not at all. And Beck has. Know she's bisexual, but has, like, never really sort of been out to her parents. She had, like, a. Everyone thought was her, like, best friend in college was really someone she was with. And she just felt like she could never be honest with her family about it. And so, like, being with Jordan really challenges her to essentially, I, like, kind of be honest with her family about kind of who she was. She's dated men and women, and, you know, now that this is happening, she's. And it's, I think, a really kind of amazing scene. Right. Where she finally kind of. It's like she's home for the holidays and tells her parents, like, not about Jordan, but about the fact that she is not straight.
- [93:19]
A
Yeah.
- [93:20]
B
And. And I just thought that this book was really terrific. I think it's pretty basketball heavy. I think the romance of it all, I think, is. I wouldn't call it Second String. It still feels like a romance, but for sure it is. Their individual journeys are a really big part of the book as well. And I think that's just because you're the first one to do something, like, in Jordan's case, like, it's gonna consume you. And yet then the conversation about, like, when things do go wrong for her and how little chances she's given, the conversation she has, like, with Beck and with her mentor and with other people about, like, what does it mean to live a full life even if you have achieved kind of the pinnacle of professional success? So I thought it was really great. I loved it. And if you are looking for. Or a really great sports romance, where the sports are a really key part of the story, not just a sort of, like, the backdrop is she's a. You know what I mean? Then this might be a book that you will really love. So it's called Play youy for it by Samantha Saldivar. Okay.
- [94:32]
A
My last one is less messy, but still has.
- [94:36]
B
It's a little messy.
- [94:39]
A
And I've talked about this before on earlier episodes this year. I talked about this on horror horse, Regency horse or historical horse, romance horse. But I want to talk about the trouble with Anna, because I really do think Rachel Griffiths is a remarkable writer and I'm always very happy when there is a historical writer who bursts onto the scene with something that is near and dear to my heart, which this one is a Regency, and it is. It just is full of all the things I said at the beginning. Part of why I love a debate debut is because you can often see, like, the things that a writer really loves about the genre. And, like, it's very clear that Rachel loves, like, classic, down the middle historical, full of, you know, horses and stern men. So, okay, Anna, the eponymous Anna from the Trouble With Anna, is a horse girl. She loves her. She is basically like, she would prefer never to show up at a country house party or any form of house party party. She would much be, much. Be much, much happier, just, like, hanging out in the stables and riding her horses. She is very plain and she is a little bit prickly. And the reality is that she doesn't really mind that everybody feels that way about her. Problem is she is at a country house party at some point and her grandfather drops dead. And it's bad. It's bad luck that because her grandfather is also her guardian and she is suddenly stuck the way so many Regency heroines are stuck by virtue of, like, she has nothing. She is not going to inherit the title. She has been saddled with a guardian who believes that he has been saddled with a ward, everyone. And that guardian is her best friend's older brother, Julian. And when the will is read and all she's worried about is her fucking horses. Like, the woman make sure. How will she make sure that her horses, like, there is. Her friend Charlotte is like, I think she'd be concerned about, like, how you're gonna live. And she's like, what about my horses? So in the will, it basically, her grandfather basically said, like, you are now Julian's ward, and if you marry Julian within the next six months, you can keep the stables, the land and the horses, but if not, it all gets sold and you have to, like, go on the marriage market. And she's like, okay, because, like, all that matters is the horses. And Julian is like, no way. Like, he is convinced at the very beginning of this that Anna has basically, like, basically, like, asked her grandfather for this, like, this will, this. This structure for the inheritance. But his. His family kind of convinces him of otherwise. And then he sort of comes around to the fact that he's always sort of like, liked the cut of Anna's jib and. Sure. And she is. And, like, she is. He goes back to her to apologize and she's like, you know what? This is crazy. I will find another way. I don't know what that other way will be, but I will find another way. And of course, and what we see is sort of a quieter romance where they both start to really, like, grow to care about each other. And what's interesting about this, and I want to go back to. We've been talking about character kind of over and over. The way that, like, characters have to shift and change and like, we have to give them complexity and those kinds of things. And I think what's really interesting here is Rachel is a tremendous writer.
- [98:29]
B
Yeah.
- [98:29]
A
And this is on a. On a number of levels. On like, the most surface of levels. She is a delight to read. Like, the banter is bright and it sparkles and the humor is just so on point. And Anna is so funny and Julian is so dry. And there are so many, like, great moments that really hearken back to, like, the greats in. In historical, like in the Regency genre. Like, there is Julia Quinn level banter in this book. And I think people, like, are if. If that's what you're looking for. Like, that is something Rachel is really delivering here. That said this, these characters are so carefully drawn. So at the very beginning you have this like Julian who's like, got a, you know, stick straight up his spine. And, you know, he's lost his family. He feels deeply, you know, this is. This is a very sort of known archetype in historicals. Like, he feels really committed to, like, having to like, take care of everything. He feels the burden, the weight of his. His title, the weight of his past, the weight of his family. And she is like this sort of like, she's like a blue stocking. Like, she's not a blue stocking, but she horse is her blue stocking. Ness. Right. Like, she's just sort of like, so single minded. And then these two are like, really com. They're really developing with each other. Like, you can totally see that, like, without each other, they would. Would have stayed in their life in stasis. But in every interaction with each other, they crack open a little more and evolve a little bit more. And what ends up happening is these two people who were just so rigid and like, lacking nuance in a lot of ways become like rich, fully formed, nuanced characters by virtue of falling for each other. And it is so well done. And also they. In the stable. I mean, like, Anna's basically like, if we're gonna get married, okay, why don't you show me everything? And he's like, I must marry first. You know, I can't. We must get a special license.
- [101:02]
B
But also he's like, what if I.
- [101:03]
A
Just, like, pull down your bodice and, like, just go to town?
- [101:07]
B
Sure. A.
- [101:08]
A
And it's fun for everyone, so.
- [101:12]
B
I'm.
- [101:13]
A
Really proud of the two of them.
- [101:14]
B
So.
- [101:17]
A
Anyway, like, it's. You will enjoy this if you love a kind of Tessa Dare, Julia Quinn, Julianne Long, kind of, you know, Regency.
- [101:28]
B
That's fun. Maybe. Yeah, I love it. Okay, so my last book is one. It's called Celebrity Crush by Kristy Swift. And I don't love a celebrity romance, but what this is a book that really, like, helped me, like, realize what I was looking for in one of these romances, right? The, like, lean in part because, like, you can tell that Kristy Swift loves a celebrity romance, right. Like, and she just, like, comes up with this, like, kind of wild and wacky premise and then leans right the fuck into it. And I found. Found that to be, like, super refreshing. I like, sort of giggle. Like, I. I'm not a giggler. But like, more than once in this book, like, kind of like, giggled, laughed out loud, like, really was just, like, kind of delighted by how you. I. I don't know. Like, you know how you have always said, like, you can tell when somebody just really puts everything they love in a first book? That's kind of how this book made me feel good.
- [102:23]
A
Right.
- [102:23]
B
And there were things about so. So in the book. Okay, so here's the plot. Our heroine is Emmy. She is just written a really popular book and, like, it's been a bestseller. There's a whole, like, continuing thing in this where it's like a New York Times bestseller, where I was literally, like, every author I know would be like, that's not how any of this works. But it was fine because it just matter where she then admits on her Instagram. And she's like, an influencer, right? So she's written a really popular book, but she also has, like, all of her money comes from, like, doing like, lots of, like, goofy things on the Internet. Like, she has, you know, like, sort of a, like, you know, like weird yoga poses and like. Right. All these things that she does. But when the book came out and people, like, people were reading it and she was sort of looking for ways to, like, sort of like, keep it popular and just like, keep people talking about. About it, she basically admitted that the main character in the book, which was a celebrity romance, was based on her own personal celebrity crush. And then she like does like an Instagram poll, like, who do you think it is? Right? And then like, basically like refuses to tell the truth about which one it is. And she mentions it's like three or four guys essentially who are on the same like, show or whatever. Is it this guy? Is it this guy? Right? And so the book opens with her going on essentially like Oprah, Drew Barrymore, the View type show or whatever where she's gonna be interviewed about the book and how well it's doing. And of course, what does the like the show person do but bring out these four guys and essentially it's gonna like corner her on live TV about which one it is. And I really loved the, the interior monologue at this point because Emmy was basically like, don't blow this. Like, you have to be cute and you have to be charming. You're just a normie. You can, you're like flirting with these like handsome Hollywood guys. Like just lean in and make it really fun and be, you know, this is your one chance. And of course she's asked on live TV like, which one is your crush? Right? And she. It turns out it's Jason Connor. Now Jason has actually had a lot of. Has is like a mess. He has, you know, a long term girlfriend and they have a, a child who's only a couple years old, but they're not married. And you know, he's, you know, they've each been caught out with like, other people. There's been like drinking, you know what I mean? Like, Jason is someone who the. The has enjoyed, let's just say the life and fame that Hollywood has afforded him. And so anyway, like this all. And he is basically what happens, of course, like, what's going to keep them apart is not just that she's a normie, but also that like, he's gotten into so much hot water in the press that his producers say to him, you need to stay away from this woman. Like, you cannot afford to. We cannot afford any more scandal. She is a regular person. You are a fucking mess. Get your life together and cut this shit out. But of course they keep getting thrown back together, right? Like her book tour. Like, essentially the book spikes in popularity, especially after this TV show, you know, that they're on. Sure. So, you know, they get this brilliant idea of essentially having a couple of like book events where he's gonna come to them, like, like, right to the readings or whatever on the West Coast. She lives in Florida where she has actually a daughter who's like 12. And it turns out that as we like kind of get to know the story, you know, Emmy wanted to be part of Hollywood and she had, you know, had gone to like filmmaking school or something. And she has like a one night stand with this like super famous producer who she thinks is gonna like, read her script, like essentially like that classic Hollywood story. And so, you know, she has every reason to be really wary of Hollywood as well. But it's fucking Hollywood, Sarah. And all of a sudden she's wildly popular there and like these, you know, him and his friends think she's like hilarious and awesome and she's going to parties with rich and famous people and, you know what I mean? And so I think the whole way that they. This book really, it really delivers the sort of you're a normie kind of thrust into this world that you always wanted. And at the same time, once she and Jason start spending more time together, like they realize that they actually have so much in common. They have great chemistry. Right. Like, she really, you know, I don't know. It's great. I really enjoyed it quite a bit. I had a lot of fun reading it. I found myself just really thinking, like, these are two people who. It's not quite messy, like the mess. It is messy, but it feels kind of surface level mess. A lot of the mess gets cleaned up pretty easily. Right? It didn't feel like in. In Once Upon a Time in Dollywood. Like the mess is so like really deeply rooted in who they are. This is like, there's a lot of mess, but don't worry, like, like romance mess. It's romance mess, right? Here's the one thing I'm gonna say that is like, really funny is everyone knows I have like one thing that really drives me bonkers, which is like dated pop culture references. And I will tell you, like, this author was born in the hospital I was born in and was in the bed next to me. But I could not for the life of me understand why these 27 year old characters knew about the Pina Colada so song. But I enjoyed this book so much. So much. Right. Why did they love Duran Duran? I don't know, but I. This book was so fun in so many other ways that I was able to overlook this one very specific thing where I was like, kind of hilariously like being like, wait, really? But it was really fun and I just found it like, like, you know how you said like a really straight over the plate, like sort of classic romance?
- [108:51]
A
Yeah.
- [108:52]
B
That's what this book definitely felt like to me. It is really, really Fun. So that's Celebrity Crush by Christy Swift.
- [109:03]
A
Well, I'm really happy with this because I feel like eight New authors is a really nice, solid group of new authors. A new class. A 2025 class. That's what we used to. When I debuted, my Debut year was 2009, and we had a live journal, and that's where we all hung out. I think it was a live journal. It was not anything that we. That exists now. And it was. We were called the class. The debut class of 2009.
- [109:36]
B
Nice.
- [109:37]
A
And as I understand it now, they still do this. They're like discords and things where they do this. But.
- [109:43]
B
But.
- [109:44]
A
And I often think. I. I mean, like, you know, I often think of that class, like, I think about a lot. Listen, a lot of those people did not do not still write. But they were. It was really.
- [109:58]
B
It.
- [109:58]
A
It's an important group. So the people you come up with, anyway, those are the debuts that we really, like, loved this year. Although there are others that we have really, that I think we probably really enjoyed. There is at least one that I found, like, tremendously charming, but, like, it wasn't quite for me.
- [110:20]
B
Yeah.
- [110:21]
A
So head out and take a look at, you know, what's around everyone. Anyway, this is God. Next week we're off. Yes, we are taking the week off next week, you know, for the festivities. Feast and festivity. Short sloth. And then we are back for New Year's Eve with a real one. Everyone, Chris, Lauren Billings from Christina. Lauren will be joining us on New Year's Eve. And that is your clue as to what we are.
- [110:53]
B
Yeah, I don't know. None of us are really ready for about what's to happen, but that is the New Year's Eve vibe in which we enter into the world. Yeah.
- [111:00]
A
That's how I want us to enter into a new year. Just.
- [111:05]
B
I'm gonna start off by saying, Carol, the rails. I need you to turn this off right now. This is nfc. Not for Carol.
- [111:14]
A
Not for Carol.
- [111:18]
B
Anyway.
- [111:18]
A
I am Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop. We are fated mates. We are very, very happy to have you with us, us this year and every year. You can find us online@faded mates.net. that's where shownotes are. Every book we talk about is also in Shownotes. There's a beautiful photo array that Jen puts together every week, along with links to all of the books. We are also incredibly happy to have our Discord members with us, our Patreon subscribers with us.
- [111:51]
B
You.
- [111:51]
A
You can join the Patreon the Fated mates patreon@patreon.com Fated mates. Um, if you are interested in, if you're still sort of being nagged by somebody in your life to give them an idea for a Christmas gift or a Hanukkah gift, now is the time for you to maybe say, well, what if you gave me a subscription to the Faded Mates Patreon? You can join that@fademates.net gift. And what else? You can find us on Instagram at Faded Mates Pod, on Threads at Faded Mates Pod, on Blue sky at Faded Mates, and every single Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. Except for next Wednesday, right? You can't find us next Wednesday. I mean, unless you want to come and hang out at our house. Sure, Jen has some room.
- [112:39]
B
It's fine.
- [112:39]
A
So, I don't know. Happy holidays, everyone. We are hoping that they will be easy and festive, if that's what you're aiming for.