B (1:55)

Exactly. Well, in fact, then I think I. I'm gonna tell this really funny story before in a minute. But, like, basically, quickly, I. So basically, what we're doing is Sarah said, romance, baby, and we, like, basically, like, completely lost our shit. And we were like, yeah, we should definitely do that. And so then what happens is we go to our corners and think about our feelings. And usually for me, that's like a Books just bubble up to the surface. Or I have ideas and I try and like, jot them down all in the same place. Sometimes I don't. You'd think I'd use my phone for that. But what is the joy in that when you could instead have several pieces of paper. Paper all over your house and. Or workplace with little notes on them?

A (2:38)

I mean, we're very. I'm glad to know that you are also sort of disorganized in this way, because I don't know how we do this.

B (2:45)

And then, you know, we. Here we are, right? But the fun. Here's like a really funny story about, like, romance Baby. And I. I guess I want to say other thing. I started going down a deep, depressing road about romance baby. And then I was like, no, Romance baby is only for fun topics. So everybody just know that. I know they're depressing romance baby things, but you can listen to our other episodes where we talk about bodily autonomy if you would like to hear that.

A (3:11)

This is not a secret baby episode.

B (3:13)

No, no, no, no. Well, I think that's what you said. We've never done Secret baby. And then we did, like, romance baby and we left ourselves silly. But when I first started reviewing for Kirkus, this was before the pandemic. And so I would get books in the mail. Like, it was like, here's the next book you're going to do. And one of the very first books I was assigned. So it's like, sitting on my kitchen counter. And it's like the COVID I can't tell you the title, but the COVID is just like, a man and a baby. And my husband, like, picked it up and he was like, what's this? And I was like, well, I'm a big, bad Kirkus reviewer now, and that is the book I am reading. And he's like, well, I thought you were reviewing romance. And I was like, well, yeah, that's a romance. What do you think that is? This man dead looked me in the eye and said, babies aren't romantic.

A (4:06)

I mean, he's not romantic.

B (4:08)

And I was like, this is in fact true, but romance baby is romantic.

A (4:15)

Romance baby is always romantic.

B (4:18)

And so we're going to talk about

A (4:19)

some of the rules of romance Baby, too.

B (4:20)

There are romance baby rules. And here's the other really funny part about this. At one point, like, maybe yesterday, I was like, well, Sarah, maybe what we really want to do is call Sarah this episode Romance parenting. And Sarah, that's also not sex recoiled so hard that she Left like a Sarah shaped like imprint in her back wall.

A (4:43)

Absolutely. I just. A visceral, Visceral, devastating reaction to romance parenting.

B (4:50)

Absolutely fucking not.

A (4:51)

Jennifer. Also, because everybody, I'm not sure any romance hero or heroine would win, like, a parenting award.

B (5:03)

No.

A (5:04)

From the book.

B (5:04)

Because the best thing about romance baby is they're not even there. Romance baby is a plot point only, basically. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. I was like. Well, I mean. And also, like, in romance parenting, you always have enough money for groceries. College is no big deal. Like, totally. You have enough money for that.

A (5:25)

Like, exactly. Nobody worries about, like, Nobody worries about anything related to romance baby.

B (5:31)

No.

A (5:31)

And if the baby gets sick, it's only an external conflict to serve the.

B (5:36)

Because. Because the doctor is the person you're in love with or whatever. Right, Exactly. So, yeah. So we're gonna just be silly today.

A (5:45)

Can we begin?

B (5:46)

I would like to. Point of order.

A (5:48)

I'd like to begin with a romance baby from 1986 who really installed a.

B (5:53)

Let's go. I'm ready. So.

A (5:56)

Okay, everybody, as you all should know by now, when I say a romance baby from 1986, I am not necessarily recommending we all go out and read this book.

B (6:08)

No.

A (6:09)

In fact, I would say that I did reread this book about 10 years ago, and it was a real ride for me. And it was. Doesn't. Although, you know, now I'm like, oh, with all these women who like stalkers, it might actually work for them anyway.

B (6:27)

Your mileage may vary, but I want

A (6:30)

to talk about the absolute fucking great Sandra Brown.

B (6:34)

Oh, yeah. Let's do it.

A (6:37)

Who wrote under the name Erin Sinclair. She wrote. Or Sinclair. Erin Sinclair. She wrote. I want to. It was a silhouette. You remember those silhouettes?

B (6:49)

Oh, yeah, Listen. Do I remember.

A (6:51)

It was an intimate moment.

B (6:53)

Those were my favorite. Everybody.

A (6:54)

And you guys, the. The structure, for those of you who don't. Who are not so, like, plugged into the category romance lines of the 1980s, these were the ones where, like, the book was actually white.

B (7:04)

Yes.

A (7:05)

But then there was, like, a strip, like a little water. It was like a curvy little strip. And inside the strip was a watercolor painting. Like, two people who just love each other beyond measure. Okay, so this book is called above and Beyond. It was published in March of 1986, and I was 8 years old, so I did not read this when it came out. But it for sure was under my sister's bed when I was, like, 10.

B (7:35)

Sure, sure, sure.

A (7:35)

And it is one of the early ones. It is actually in partnership with a different Aaron Sinclair book called Honor Bound. That is. That one is a whole separate kind of ride. And that is a secret baby book. But this book, above and beyond. The premise is there is. Okay, first of all, I just feel like I should paint the picture of the COVID which involves a man with an eye patch. Okay. Contemporary Romance, 1986. He does have an eye patch. It's fucking great. In fact, I'm sending it to Jen right now so she can see it and experience it live. You can experience it live with her.

B (8:15)

Romance is unmatched.

A (8:17)

Unmatched, unmatched. And you know what? He has an eyepatch for a really good reason. And I'm going to explain it to you in a second. I mean, not that. Listen, listen, I'm looking at this.

B (8:27)

Oh, yeah, listen.

A (8:28)

I mean, surrounded by flowers, he's wearing, I believe, a leather vest over a denim shirt.

B (8:35)

Oh, yeah.

A (8:36)

I mean, this guy, he is slick.

B (8:39)

He is. And also delighted to be with her.

A (8:42)

Oh, and she's like a stunning redhead in a green dress.

B (8:45)

Yes.

A (8:46)

Which, if you remember the 80s, all redheads wore green dresses. That was like a rule.

B (8:50)

That's romance law in romance. Romance law, romance color, romance wardrobe, all at once.

A (8:59)

Okay, so the premise of this book is that Kyla, our heroine, is married to a man who she loves so, so very much. He is in the military and his name is Richard and he is stationed away somewhere. Romance globe. And there is. And they, like, loved each other so much. And she's pregnant with their baby and she's about to go into labor and he's out with his best friend Trevor on the base or somewhere near wherever and they are partying it up because Kyle is about to have a baby and he's just like that. Richard is so happy and he can't wait to get home to her and, like, hug his wife and like, be with his child. They get extraordinarily drunk out there. And when they get home, the bunks that they live in, usually Trevor is on top and Richard, the husband, is on the bottom. But what they actually end up doing is they reverse because Richard can't get Trevor up there. Sure. Upper bunk. Tragedy strikes and there's a collapse. And because of the way there's a bomb and because of the way everything happens, Richard on the top bunk, dies. But, like, when it collapses, Trevor is like, saved. And he's saved with battle scars. Like, he has a. I think he might have a limp. I can't remember. He definitely loses an eye, hence the eye patch. And he Is in, he's alone, he doesn't have family, he doesn't have friends. Friends. Like his best friend has died and he is rec. He recovers in like you know, a German hospital with only Kyla's love letters to Richard to keep him warm.

B (11:06)

Listen, I love everything about this and I've definitely read this book.

A (11:11)

He falls in love with her. Now back at the ranch in America, Kyla has had a daughter and like tragically like Richard dies and she goes. He, I think actually Richard's death like sends her into like early labor and

B (11:26)

like, of course, of course she has

A (11:27)

like in trauma and she has this baby romance labor. I mean, and then there's, there's a. And so she has a little girl and like Kyla's a single mom, like just trying to get by because she loved her husband so much and now he's dead and now she's this baby and like, oh, it's so awful. And Trevor, now feeling much better or you know, moderately better.

B (11:50)

Sure.

A (11:50)

Comes back to the United States, goes to the town where Kyla lives and instead of like a normal person introducing himself to her.

B (12:01)

No.

A (12:02)

And admitting that he is racked with guilt because he should have died. Jen. Of course.

B (12:09)

And Richard should have lived.

A (12:12)

He instead pretends to be someone else and stalks her and seduces her into loving him without her knowing who he really is. It is perfection. It may not be perfection in 2026. This is a 40 year old book. So.

B (12:31)

Yeah, you know, but like, listen, if

A (12:33)

you like all these stalker romances, this could be for you. It definitely has that like edge to it now. Like, ooh, this all feels problematic anyway, so he's harboring this like enormous secret and he like she is flat out in love with him. This man is like carrying her daughter around because of course, sure, in romance baby, all men are great with kids.

B (12:58)

Yes.

A (13:00)

I mean like there's never been a kid. A romance baby always runs to the

B (13:04)

hero of the book. Yes, 100%. That's just. Yes, of course, of course.

A (13:09)

No child is ever shy around the hero of the book. And so he's like carrying this little baby around or she's not a baby, she's like a toddler now. And like he's, you know, he's in love with them, they're in love with him. And then there is this like moment of. Nobody does a moment of revelation. Like Sandra Brown does.

B (13:27)

Like, oh yeah.

A (13:28)

Where she just like Kylo realizes like, oh my God, you were the, you were the one who was in the

B (13:36)

wrong you were the one.

A (13:39)

And she of course, is like, it should have been you. And he's like, it should have been me. Yes. And there it is, Sandra Brown writing as Aaron Sinclair. So I again, I am telling you that this is the romance baby book that installed my romance baby. The first of many romance baby understandings which is also that like the moment where the heroine, a single mother heroine, sees a new hero holding.

B (14:15)

Yeah.

A (14:16)

Her baby or toddler for the first time. That's the money.

B (14:21)

Yes.

A (14:22)

In these books.

B (14:23)

Yes, for sure. Yeah. That's amazing. A plus. Good job.

A (14:28)

I also would like vaguely to discuss. I'm pretty. I couldn't figure out what book it was, Jen, but maybe, you know, I'm pretty sure it was a Devereaux because

B (14:37)

I'm pretty sure it was a Devereaux, like, because there are things that like

A (14:40)

feel Judevre to me.

B (14:41)

Yes, right.

A (14:43)

But there's a very old school historical. A medieval where I mean, it feels medieval. But you know, those ladies were writing regencies. That felt medieval too.

B (14:52)

Yeah, right.

A (14:54)

Where the heroine is pregnant, gets pregnant, has a baby. And then here is another romance baby truth that I just assumed was correct until I was a grown up. And that is because in that book, like, she would wake up every. Like there was no wet nurse. She was feeding the child herself and she was getting up in the middle of the night. And one night they like, they. And then he's like so worried about her, like sleeping. He wants her to sleep through, like the heroine to sleep. So he gets the baby and then he holds the baby to her chest. Oh, sure. It might be Garwood. It's somebody. Somebody basically, like where he's like, there was no bottle. There's no bottle service.

B (15:41)

Sure.

A (15:42)

In like in the medieval times. And so he like arranges the baby and her while they're sleeping so that the baby doesn't wake her up. Because, Jen, as you know, romance babies, they don't keep. They don't impact your sleep schedule.

B (16:00)

No, of course not. Please, that could never happen.

A (16:06)

So if you remember that book, everybody, please let me know what I'm thinking of. The discord will get. Will will be on that.

B (16:12)

They'll figure it out.

A (16:13)

I.

B (16:13)

You know, I'm gonna say I. I does not feel like that would be Julie Garwood. I don't think. No, I think it's Julia would's not get involved with breast milk. I don't think I could be wrong.

A (16:24)

Yeah, no, I think you're right.

B (16:25)

But.

A (16:26)

Well, no, it wasn't like sexy breast milk. It Was this is serviceable. This is just like at some point, the editor wrote in the margin, like, where's this baby?

B (16:33)

Yeah, where's the baby? They're like, oh, fine.

A (16:35)

I got to assume happens. If you're an editor out there, Romance

B (16:40)

editor, you know, and Jen, feel free

A (16:43)

to jump in, but I don't feel like you've edited a bunch of baby books.

B (16:46)

But the.

A (16:47)

If you're out there and you've been editing for a long time, how often do you write, hey, where's this baby?

B (16:53)

I don't care about the baby. That's simply not my business. Romance baby.

A (16:59)

This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Lucy Score, author of Mistakes Were Made.

B (17:05)

All right, so literary agent Zoe Moody has been exiled from Manhattan to a small town, Pennsylvania. She was a publishing agent. She has only one client left. It's her best friend. So she, like, decamps to her town to just like, sort of, like, lick her wounds and figure out the rest of her life. So she has been forced to liquidate her designer wardrobe to keep herself going financially. But listen, Sarah, this is a romance novel, and nothing is going to stop this plucky heroine from climbing her way back to the top. Except that is her gorgeous man, her landlord, Gage Bishop. He's smart, serious, and sexy. He can practice law and be part of his brother's construction business. Of course, he came a full package. So Gage, of course, thinks Zoe is infuriating and chaotic and is allergic to commitment and doesn't like his amazing dog. I mean, come on, what's going on here? But opposites do attract. And so when Gage's world is rocked by a devastating family secret, he turns to Zoe for one night to forget everything. Is it going to be one night, though?

A (18:17)

It definitely is not. It's going to be more than one night. It's going to be every night. Forevermore. Anyway, if this sounds as delightful to you as it does to us, then you will love Mistakes Were Made, which is released this month in print, ebook, audiobook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. And the print book has a special edition paperback with design edges. It's very cute. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Lucy Score for sponsoring this week's episode.

B (18:57)

Okay, so you know, in romance, although there is such a thing as romance baby, there is no such thing as romance babysitter. There. There is only romance nanny. And I think that's the answer, right? Like someone just living in your House and is taking care of the baby. I don't know exactly. Romance, wet nurse, romance nanny. Right.

A (19:19)

There's. I mean, this is the, this is the appeal of the governess, right?

B (19:23)

Yeah, of course.

A (19:24)

The, the nurse, the government, like the wealthy.

B (19:27)

Yeah, sure.

A (19:28)

I mean, like, and I do wonder, like, is it possible that. I mean, I think there are lots of reasons why we turn ourselves to like in historicals to like the upper class. Right?

B (19:37)

Yeah.

A (19:37)

But not the least of which is servants help a lot.

B (19:40)

Yeah.

A (19:41)

Like you could just waver away so much with a servant is including.

B (19:46)

Yeah. Your child care duties. Yeah, no, exactly. The kink of romance baby, is about feelings, not about like kink. You know what I mean? And that is like something about like making a family and having babies is gonna like, cause people to have emotions. And I think that there's like a, like a reason why people then are kind of like, you shouldn't need a baby to feel like a family. And of course we agree that that is true and.

A (20:12)

Oh, a thousand percent.

B (20:13)

Right. And I think it's nice that now, like, we have all these books where people just like, don't want to have kids or, you know, the hea has nothing to do with having kids or whatever. But I do think that like, when you are putting kids on page, even if they are romance kids who are going to just disappear for long stretches of the book when you don't need them around, you know, everyone has a great sex life. No, it doesn't matter that there's a baby in the house. Right.

A (20:36)

That I'm tired.

B (20:37)

Right. No one's tired. There's money for everything. I mean, real romance, real babies, as my husband pointed out, are not romantic. But I think like, it is kind of a way to like, be about feelings. And I think the feelings about it are about like vulnerability. Right? Like this, like you as a parent or a child, someone taking care of a child. It's a huge responsibility. And so then I think, like, the good things about romance baby are just like, what, like people really like having to face that. Like, right. Like they're your. Your life is now out of control in some sort of meaningful way. So the one I want to talk about actually is like, of course, you know, a romance law is like if you have a one night stand and you're definitely gonna get knocked up.

A (21:24)

Right.

B (21:25)

And so a book I want to talk about is called Pregnancy, Wrestling and Dating by Kiana Glide. And what I really liked about this book, so it starts off with Elle, who is a. A black Woman who I think she like writes comics, she sort of like run it, you know, kind of like in a rough time or whatever. And she goes to a local like bar and it's like, it's like video games and is like just like having a great time. And she meets this guy named Logan who is a wrestler. And they, and I. This book is really like propulsive. Like the chapters are really short. They're like flipping back and forth in between, you know, Logan and Elle's point of view. And what happens is, is like they hit it off at this bar. They have a one night stand. It's mostly off page. Like it's not like, like a. It doesn't start with a big sexy scene. And then we get like, sort of. We fast forward like two months and like Elle essentially figures out she's pregnant and she goes back to the bar. Because Logan I think is like maybe an owner or partial owner. He and his friends own it something and is like, I'm pregnant now. She had snuck out of the house, right? Like, so they were at his place, they have sex all night long. And she's the one who sort of like kind of freaked out and like took off. So when she shows up, he's like a little pissy about it, like, oh, you're back. After, you know, kind of disappearing on me, like that wasn't cool and is, you know, kind of like are here to apologize. And she's like, I'm pregnant. And it's like a silence falls over his entire brain. And what I really then liked about the opening of this book in particular is that neither one of them are perfect and in particular like, like, like they'll sort of like text each other. And he's kind of like, you know, he says like kind of all the right things, like I'm here to support you, what it's your choice kind of thing. But then like, you know, he freaks out. I think she sends him a like a picture of the sonogram. He just like his brain just kind of freaks out. He doesn't return her text and then he realizes he's being a J and you know, kind of goes to her and sort of apologizes and you know, the whole thing felt very real. Like you're having a baby with someone you do not know. And I think that like so like romance baby is like the thing that's just gonna like bring these two together. But what I really actually liked about this book is I felt like it sort of breaks a little of like the romance baby Rules. Because instead of it being like, great, now we just are. No, we're going to be perfect for each. These two really have to figure it the out. And I think what Logan brings to the table, like her, like there's a lot of text messages. I think that's, it's really effective for showing like, you know, in our modern world, like you can really get to know someone through text. And you know, there's this one really funny part where he, he like texts her and he's like, you know, really trying. Like they've sort of promised themselves they're gonna get to know each other. Right. Like we're not gonna have sex. And he's like, okay, the sex was great. And she's like, we need to get to know each other, you idiot. She does not say that, but you can tell that's what she's thinking. Yeah. And you know, he has brought her like sort of as a conciliatory gift. Like she's been really struggling with morning sickness. So he like brings her like anti nausea bands and ginger chews and all these things. Like he reads what to expect and like just really is trying to do the right thing. And it's really funny because he texts her and he's sort of like, how's Blobby? And she's like, who is Blobby? And he's like, the baby, of course. And she's like our baby. And she's, you know, I don't think I like that name. And he's like, well, I thought Blobert was too formal and it's just like cute, you know. And I think like the thing that I ended up liking about it is it felt like a really real like, oh shit, we really need to get to know each other way. But also, I don't know, like really hit the highlights of like being pregnant is fucking ridiculous.

A (25:34)

Yeah.

B (25:34)

And they're like your brain like literally isn't even yours. And like sometimes someone who can like joke around and dispel some of that tension and. Right. Like they're gonna figure it out together. So anyway, I just really thought that this book, I mean it, it leans into the romance baby tropes. Right? Like sort of like, okay, we're gonna do this thing and we don't know each other. But it also really doesn't skip the fact that like now they have to really get to know each other if they truly are going to, you know, in the beginning, of course we're just going to co parent. But at the end it's going to be, you know. No, we're going to be a family. So anyway, it's a. It's actually a really fun book and just like charming and. And like I said, like, I am not a person. I hated being pregnant. So any book that can like make me remember the levity of like, this is the most ridiculous thing people can go through. Y.

A (26:29)

Exactly.

B (26:29)

Really was, I thought, really fun. So yeah, that's pregnancy, wrestling and date and dating. I do like that cover, that title though.

A (26:38)

It's really fun and weird. Yes.

B (26:41)

Yeah, it's great.

A (26:42)

You know, the single parent trope is really the. There are a handful of writers who do it kind of religiously and it is really the home of the category in a lot of ways, or at least it was for a long time. And so I think it's just important for us to like name check Naima Simone.

B (27:04)

Yes.

A (27:04)

Who like really writes a kid into a book in a. In a really strong way. Like Naima doesn't forget the child exists, but she still follows all of those rules. Right. So like we talked about the Blackout Billionaires series where you know, the. One of those books, I think it's the billionaire's bargain is the. There's like a blackout throughout Chicago and like three couples get together. That's like the conceit of the series. And these two get together, they have like a kind of very hot experience during the blackout and then discover that she is his best friend's widow and like she's been in like in contention with his best friend's family who he like is, you know, very, very deeply connected to since his best friend died. They have a son, the best friend and. And the widow had a son. And there is a great moment this goes to like romance baby. In an. In an mf Romance baby always activates the protective instincts of the hero. Right.

B (28:23)

100%.

A (28:24)

So he. the beginning, I think that that book is a really good example of how this, this particular rule works. And that is that. That is because he kind of goes to her. She lives in an apartment in a. Not great. Like her in laws and the grandparents of her son live in like a. On the Gold coast of Chicago. Like very fancy place in Chicago. They have lots and lots of money and they have really been terrible to her. Like there is a paternity question in this book. Like it's. It's really rough for the heroine of this book. And when the hero kind of goes to her apartment, still not 100% sure if he believes like that she has been wronged in this whole story. He walks into her apartment which is like so many apartments in the world. Like she has, she, she. It's not like a brand new perfect apartment. It's very clean, she takes good care of it. But like it's a rough apartment in a rough place because she can't afford more. And he is immediately like I want you to be, you know, more comfortable, safer, have like have less insecurity. Like I want this child to be, you know, taken care of, etc. Etc. And like I think that sort of caretaker piece like there is a deep personal investment in the child from this is especially true in MF when the single parent is the mother. Right. Like there is a kind of a bedrock kind of rule that a hero in this kind of book must take on the role of caretaker and father. Like and there is no step. This is not a stepfather, this is a father.

B (30:20)

Right.

A (30:22)

And so I think Naima knows this and I think Naima does it very well. But I do wanna talk briefly about the single dad project which is a Rose Ben novel of hers. So this one is kind of very cute. There's a. The main character Flo is returned home to Rose Bend or Return to Rose Bend and she is looking for just like a one night stand and she gets it with this kind of very, very hot and classic Naima hero. Like you've. We've read her, we've read this man a million times from Naima. He's you know, super duper dreamy. He's a beast in bed. He is an architect who is there in Rose Bend which is like the her Naima small town to work on a TV show like a this Old House kind of like remodel show. And he is divorced. He has a daughter, Justine. And you know, in classic like romance, he's also like a hero who doesn't love Jen. Liam doesn't believe in love.

B (31:37)

A that's all I want really.

A (31:39)

So Flo and Flo and Adam have a one night stand that is like blazing, blazing hot. And then she turns up at the renovation project because that's her work and discovers that he's like the contractor running the renovation project. And what's interesting is just Dean is again on page in this book like she is a child who is around.

B (32:05)

Yeah.

A (32:07)

And this brings me to the next rule of romance baby, which is all children in romance are wise beyond their years.

B (32:15)

Oh yeah?

A (32:16)

Yes, like wise well beyond their years.

B (32:20)

I mean honestly I will also say like as a teacher, some, some of you, I'M just. It's like an throw this out there. Clearly have never met a child the age you are describing. And you know what? That's fine. I understand this romance baby, but I also think so.

A (32:34)

Okay, so I.

B (32:36)

But I'm like your three year old actually cannot make complete sentences like no. Like, no. But good talk. I enjoyed it. Yeah, yeah.

A (32:43)

I mean very. They're all very articulate and they all can like clock like a parental feeling at a distance.

B (32:54)

Yes, right. Yes.

A (32:56)

And often my favorites. And I will say so I have written one too. Where I have written one book that has a child in it that is like relevant to the text. I think it's only one with a child in it, to be honest. And it's a single parent and that's never judge a lady by her cover. And that child who is like 13, 12 or 13 is like integral to getting the two of them together because she clearly, she knows what's up.

B (33:23)

Well, this is like go, keep going. But like my one I'm gonna talk about next is like all romance children are matchmakers.

A (33:30)

Oh, all romance children are matchmakers for sure. So Justine is actually a little bit of a matchmaker. Right. So she immediately is obsessed with Flo because of course she is. Right. She declares they've already had this one night anonymous they don't know of. I mean it's Naima, she knows the job, the one night stand. They didn't know who each. Who they were. Right. Now they discover they have to work together on this project. And Justine, who is little, she's like, I don't know, five or six is like Flo is. I love Flo. Flo is my best friend. And then like she's just sort of like tooling around and she is like. And she is she showing. She's like the mirror by which each of the characters can see each other more clearly. Like.

B (34:19)

Yes.

A (34:21)

And that is the role. I mean like all romance children are soothsayers in a lot of ways. Right. Like they just get it. And you know, this is a. If you like a child in a romance novel and if you are. Or if you are writing a book where you are writing a single parent and have a child who is like of walking, talking, existing age. This is a really, really good book for you because she is a huge part of the story, Justine. And he is a very good father. Of course there's like the ex wife is sort of out of the picture, not really that interested in her. So there's like sort of a, you know, this. This little girl needs love. And also what I think is interesting about this book is this kind of question that often romance glosses over with single parenting, which is, you know, how is this going to work with, like, you do need to have. You need to take both of us like, we are. We are an immediate family.

B (35:36)

Yes.

A (35:39)

And I think Naima threads the needle on like, that emotional work as well in a way that is rare because I do think often we are like. And now, of course, I love you both. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Neha Liu, author of Midnight at Soulfield.

B (36:00)

Okay, listen, I am super into this because I love a little dark academia. So our heroine is Midnight. Oh, young.

A (36:08)

She's 18.

B (36:09)

She's been keeping her gifts, essentially, like her magical gifts, like, suppressed her entire life. But now she's been admitted to Soulfield, ready to essentially uncover the truth about this place her parents fled. However, every night she's having these, like, incredible dreams where this he comes for her. She can't move. She can't see his face. She only feels claws traces here. Skin incubation. Yes, Sarah. And she hears this voice in her skull saying, we are bound by the cords of fate. So who is this demon haunting her dreams now? She's also got a bit of, like a love triangle going on with some hotties at school. Alistair, the productive heir whose unwavering presence pierces her walls. And Jack, a volatile outsider who mirrors and understands her most shameful secrets. And the possessive demon. So what?

A (37:03)

Let's not lose track of him.

B (37:04)

We would never. So Midnight is fighting for her body, mind and soul, but realizes the enemy might be closer than she could have imagined. So people around her start getting attacked. All eyes turn to Midnight. But in order to survive, she's going to have to do the one thing her parents forbade, and that is stop running for her from her demons and start embracing them.

A (37:27)

Well, you all know who I have selected already as the hero of this book. And you can, you know, do your own work here, but if you think you would love this spicy dark academia incubus romantasy, then Midnight at Soulfield is available right now in print, ebook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Neha Liu for sponsoring this week's episode.

B (38:00)

So an example of, like, a book where, like, the man really has to fucking deal with that is Dream A Little Dream by Susan Elizabeth Phillips. This is the One with Gabe. Right. And so I don't know if you remember this one is he has experienced, like, a tragic. And let me make sure that that's the right Susan Elizabeth Phillips mom book before I say that this is the. Maybe it's not. Hold on. Is that the right one? Yes. Okay, so this is the one with Gabe and essentially, like, he has experienced, like, a real tragedy.

A (38:34)

He.

B (38:34)

His family, I think, died in a car accident. And Rachel comes along and she has a little boy. And Gabe, like, literally can't even bring himself to engage with this child. And because he's romance baby, like, despite how broke Rachel is, she's like, coming back to town. She's like the preacher's disgraced ex. Wife. Wife. And it really is the case where she is like, I am in love with you, but I cannot actually be with a man who does not love my child. And you can't even look at him. And it really is. I was like, it was intense. I thought it was great. It would. And this is like a book I hadn't read in a really long time. But then like last year, all, like, all of her books went on sale and I just bought a bunch of them for like, you know, a couple bucks each and really was like, oh, God, this is so devastating. Like, right. Imagine. I mean. And the reason the book is so good is because it totally does play against type where, you know, instead, like, right in.

A (39:27)

In.

B (39:28)

In. In romance, baby. It's like no one ever thinks, like, is this going to be difficult? How are we gonna. You know what I mean? Like, all the blending of the family essentially seems really seamless because, you know, like, the HEA is for all of them.

A (39:42)

Right.

B (39:43)

As you said. Yeah. But, you know, my other theory I was like, really thinking about is I think just in general, there are authors who are like, like, more interested in writing parents than others. Right.

A (39:55)

Like, I think that's true.

B (39:56)

Yeah. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So I just think.

A (39:58)

And I would say it doesn't. It doesn't come with parenthood.

B (40:03)

No, like, no, of course not.

A (40:06)

I don't wanna. I don't. I'm not interested in it.

B (40:08)

Yeah. Like.

A (40:08)

And it.

B (40:09)

And it. Yeah.

A (40:10)

But I think you're right. There are. There are a lot of authors who.

B (40:14)

Who never write a parent. Right.

A (40:16)

And there are a lot of authors who care deeply about family.

B (40:19)

Yeah, exactly.

A (40:20)

Right.

B (40:21)

And so I just think, like, you know, Naima is a good example of a person who more often, I feel like, has a lot of books where the characters are parents and then there are other people where I was like, has this person ever written a parent? Because, you know, sometimes I'm like, well, let me go to my. Go to authors. Which one did I like? And I was like, this person's never super rare, right? Yeah. Right?

A (40:39)

Yeah.

B (40:40)

Okay, I am going to talk about another back to my. Every romance child is a. Is a matchmaker. I'm going to talk about Single Dad Dilemma by Carla Sorenson. I can't remember who recommended this book to me, but I ended up really, really liking it and kind of feeling like, oh, this is an author I'm going to definitely read more of. I think she has a pretty big backlist, or at least, you know, more than a couple books, which I was really excited about. And this one's really pretty. It's pretty great. Because the other thing is, like, okay, yes, dads always love their children, but sometimes single dads are like, idiots too.

A (41:24)

And this guy is kind of.

B (41:26)

He loves his kids, but, like, deeply loves them, but also is, like, has a hard time parenting them, which I think is what kind of made this book stand out for me. So in Single Dilemma, the book opens with Lily, who is. And this is like, really smart plotting, I think, on the part of the author. Lily is like a person who never sits still. So she essentially, like, has traveled the country, like, for just, like, months at a time, will pick up and move everything, and basically, like, just house sits. Right? Like, that's kind of like what she does. And then whatever her work is, she can just do from wherever I can, like, doesn't even matter. And so as the book opens, she's in Buffalo and the other, the one piece of baggage that Lily has, right? Because we understand that, like, her arc is going to really be about learning to, like, to be still, right? Like, whatever trauma is driving her to, like, sort of never put down roots is something that is going to have to be solved. So her one. Her one piece of baggage is her old dog, Larry. So she has moved to Buffalo. It's winter, she's house sitting, and she's like, outside with the dog trying to convince the dog to pee. And she's basically like, everyone loves Larry, but Larry's a, like, jerk, you know, which, again, if you are going to put romance dog in the book, it better be a charming ass dog. And what happens is there are, like, little kids, and they're like 8 and 9 or 11 or something, they're not super little, which I also thought is sort of remarkable. Sometimes there's baby or teenager, but sometimes there's not. Like school aged kids. And the kids are essentially named Maggie and Bryce. And they're like kind of peeking through the thing and they're like, can we meet your dog? She's like, shit, you know what I mean? And she's kind of like, don't you have a babysitter? And they're like, oh, well, the housekeeper is supposed to watch us, but she won't. And like Lily is sort of like judging this, like, wait, what the fuck is going on? You know, money for this housekeeper. And the kids are really cute and she's kind of like, Larry doesn't really like many people, but then he like sniffs Maggie's hand and she's like, what the is happening here, right? And like Bryce, who's 11, is kind of like, you're not really dressed warm enough. It's really a very, really, really cute interaction. And it's like I think a sign that the kids are not just plot muppets. Like they really are a key part of the story. And what she like essentially discovers is that her, the kids, their dad, Barrett is the head coach of the Buffalo Bills. Now I don't know if she ever says like the Bills, it's like the Buffalo football team. I can't remember. So he, this man has a big ass fucking job and he is basically like just never home. And the other thing that the kids disclose really fast is that their mom, their parents got divorced, their mom moved to la and that like that Barrett like essentially fought for full custody because. And the kids are like, yeah, she didn't want us. So it's really like, you really get right from the jump that this is like a, like a broken family, right? And, and yet there's like these signs of like love there. But like Barrett's big problem of course is like, who is watching his game? Yeah, and it's because it's like, you know, the end of the season, right? It's like the football season, right? This man is like non stop at work and it turns out that like he was a football player and you know, has a brother who I think has like a previous book in the series. I was like, I definitely want to read about the brothers. They're sort of estranged, you know, I mean, but he's just like cannot figure out like how to get the kids home from school and of course, and like, right, who's going to just watch them until he comes home home. And of course what ends up happening is that like you know, the housekeeper just, like, leaves them alone one day, and they end up with Lily because she's like, these kids are alone. And of course, then Bear comes, like, screaming over and thinks, like, you know, basically, how dare you take my kids

A (45:35)

out of my house?

B (45:36)

And she's like, you're a. And it's this great. Like, a really great, I think, other part of, like, sometimes kids and romance, when the. The kids are a big part of the story, is like, you, an outsider, saying, actually, you were fucking this up royally.

A (45:55)

Yeah.

B (45:55)

Yeah, right? And he's like, how dare you just have a dumb dog? And she's like, well, I can tell you're fucking this up royally. So she agrees to, I think, just, like, watch the kids after school. It's only going to be a couple weeks, and his parents are going to be in town. And of course, like, through this process, right, Barrett and Lily end up falling in love. And then, right, the big struggle is this is someone who's ready to blow out of town as soon as these people get back from Arizona or whatever. And. And yet I found it, like, really, truly, like, I don't know, like, here's the man who loves his kids and wants to protect them, but also his job legitimately means that he is real. It's really hard for him to take care of them. She's someone who doesn't want to put down roots, and now she is, like, falling in love with these kids and this man. So it's just, like, the conflict feels, like, really rich and really good. And also, though, it's really funny. Like, I think kids, if. If you are not using kids on page to leverage humor in a romance, I sometimes feel like you're doing it wrong. Like, right, and I think really does it right. So I loved it. It's called Single Dad Dilemma.

A (47:03)

This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by L.J. andrew, author of Heir of Twisted Lies, second book in the broken Souls and Bones series.

B (47:13)

Okay, so Lyra Bien never expected to leave the royal house at Stonegate in one piece after her rare Melder magic was revealed. But once she discovered the truth about, like, why they need her magic and the brutality of her kingdom, she vowed to essentially, like, bring, like, an end to the corruption of the crown. But in order to do that, she has to trust the man who stole

A (47:38)

her heart and then deceived her men the worst.

B (47:44)

So this is Rourke Ashwood. He rose through the ranks to become sentry of Stonegate and personal guard to the prince. But in a heartbeat, he destroyed essentially years of plotting and planning where he'd been, like, essentially undercover as a spy in order to save Lyra. But then that means everyone knows that he was a spy, so. Oh no.

A (48:06)

But also yes.

B (48:08)

So as his two these two lives collide, he has to fight to protect the woman he loves and outsmart everyone in the kingdom who wants his power for themselves.

A (48:17)

I love a man who's willing to destroy his reputation for the woman he loves. So if you also love that, then you might love both. Books in the Broken Souls and Bones series, the Heir of Twisted Lies is available right now in print, ebook, or audiobook, wherever you get your books. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to LJ Andrews for sponsoring this week's episode. I'm gonna jump from that immediately to another book that I think does it really well and has a truly delicious kid scene in it, which is Victoria Doll's Fanning the Flames. So I have talked about this book a few times. I think I talked about it on, like, Firefighter. I think I talked about it on older, like, seasoned romance or, you know, getting Pearl jammed.

B (49:11)

Yeah.

A (49:13)

So. But Victoria Dahl is a. Is a favorite writer for me. Like, I think she is one of the very best contemporary romance writers. And now she writes commercial fiction and thrillers and she's just great. She writes now under the name Victoria Helenstone, but for a long time she wrote under the name Victoria Doll her contemporary romances. Fanning the Flames is a short. It's a little longer than a novella and shorter than a novel. I think we're calling that novelette. Sure. I don't know whatever you want to call it. But the premise here is two. There are. These are both older. This is an. These are older hero and heroine. They're both in their 40s. Lauren, the heroine, is the librarian at the local public library, and the hero is the chief. Or he's like a up and up

B (50:12)

at the top of the Jake.

A (50:15)

He's like either the fire chief or, like, close to being fire chief. Point is, he's super hot. And Lauren has been watching Jake run. Like, basically, he jogs every morning. The fire station is next to the library, and every morning he goes for a run and he does it without a shirt. And Lauren basically, like, salivates over the circulation desk at him. And everybody in the library knows that she has a crush on him. But, like, it's just never going to happen.

B (50:40)

Sure.

A (50:41)

Anyway, so Jake was married and is now A widow. A widower. And he has a daughter named Annabelle who is in college or she's sort of in her. I would say she's. I can't remember exactly, but she's like either late in college or like early 20s and home to this, like. So Annabelle has this boyfriend and she's like kind of around in the context of the book. Jake and Lauren, you know, because of romance reasons, end up kind of getting together. They have. They like, are both kind of hot for each other. They end up at Jake's house making out. Like kids. Like a full on makeout session.

B (51:27)

I love making out. Great.

A (51:28)

That leads to, like, you know, it's clear that like, these are two consenting adults who like sex. And so they're gonna have sex together and it's gonna be great. And Jake has a filthy, dirty mouth and it's gonna be so fun for everyone. Everyone. And so there they are on Jake's couch and the door opens and Annabelle comes in with her boyfriend.

B (51:49)

Oh, boy.

A (51:50)

They can hear her sort of in.

B (51:52)

In like the short, like the entryway,

A (51:54)

like the mud room or whatever. And they freeze. And like his pants are down. Like, she's like. And it's just her. He's already gone down on her because Victoria doll knows the job. So her, like, underwear off.

B (52:07)

Like, it's.

A (52:08)

It's a. It's chaos. And then it's just like everybody, like, so the two of them freeze because they can hear, you know, his daughter in the mud room and he and her boyfriend in the mud room. So they're like scrambling to put their clothes back on and in. And like the daughter comes in and he like, Jake, like, sits up on the couch and she's like, oh, were you napping? And he's like. And then Lauren has to like, sit up on the couch. And then Annabelle is like, Mrs. Foster.

B (52:47)

Oh.

A (52:47)

And it's like, oh, no. And then Annabelle's boyfriend is like, I think we should go. Annabelle's like, oh, yeah, okay. And then Lauren's like, no, no, no, no. She has like full static brain. She's like, no, no, no, I will go. And she like, basically like gets up and she. She's like, well, it was very nice to see you.

B (53:07)

Amazing handshake to Jake.

A (53:09)

And then is out the door. He gets up to like, follow her because he's like, what? Like, he's a big dumb man. And he's like, what do I do? Like, how do I. And Annabelle looks down at the ground and he has her underpants wrapped around his the toe of his shoe. And his daughter, horrifying. Reaches down, and he grabs them.

B (53:33)

Horrifying.

A (53:33)

And he runs after Lauren into the street. And he's like. And she's like, I can't even believe this happened. I'm so sorry. And he's like, I'm sorry. Like, she wasn't supposed to be home. And he, like, gives her her underpants back. And she's like, she called me Mrs. Foster. And, like, it's just this brutal moment where, like, the reality of, like, all of it comes to pass. And then immediately in the next chapter, Annabelle and Jake have this moment where she's like. She's like. They start to have a conversation, and he's like. And she's like, are you dating? Like, what's.

B (54:19)

Dad?

A (54:19)

What's going on? And he's like, well, yeah. I mean, it was sort of. That was our first. And she was like, you move fast. And he was like, oh, it. Like, it just. It's so embarrassing. And then Annabelle is like. There's this very funny moment where he's like. She's like, so. I mean, like, this is crazy, dad. Like, you should date her. She's really nice. And he's like, I don't know how. I. Like, you know, it's nothing yet. Like, I don't know how I feel about her. And she's like, yeah, but, like, we start dating people in the hopes that we'll fall in love, don't we? Like, there's sort of this, like, wonderful sageness about her. And then she says, unless you were just hooking up. Do you know what that means?

B (55:02)

Amazing. Amazing.

A (55:05)

And I mean, it's just this great moment where, like, he, like, she's old enough that she, like, understands the way the world works, but also, he's, like, looking for permission from someone.

B (55:19)

Yes.

A (55:20)

In his life to, like, move on. She's like, you loved mom, but, like, mom's not here anymore. Like, you deserve happiness. And getting permission from your child.

B (55:30)

Yes.

A (55:31)

For that feels, like, even more powerful than getting it from anyone else.

B (55:35)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (55:37)

Anyway, that's fanning the flames, you guys. You're gonna love that one. It's delicious.

B (55:41)

I really love that. You know what that reminds me of? And I'm just gonna say it's briefly. Like, we've talked about this book a lot, but the Tiffany Rice Thanksgiving book,

A (55:49)

which is called, I believe, Her Naughty Holiday.

B (55:52)

Her Naughty Holiday. Yeah, is the, like, he has, like, a teenage daughter who essentially works for the heroine, and then, like, basically the daughter, like, sets them up you know, because she like, is going to see her mom and then she's like, oh, dad, I forgot my wallet at work or something. You're going to have to go to work and pick it up, up. And like, essentially like, they, they understand, like, oh, this art, you know, my teenage matchmaker is, you know, definitely, you know, that's how it works. This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by the Romantasy Letters, breathtaking romantic fiction in your mailbox.

A (56:38)

This is so cool. I. The more I talk about it, the more we get these in our, in our own mailbox, the more excited I am by them. So the concept is a full Romantasy novel. A story of a mortal king and a Fae star weaver bound by a blood treaty full of, you know, duty and danger and a slow burning passion that can unite worlds or destroy them. There's like a marriage of convenience and a lot of sort of stuff, scandalous, exciting things going on. But the story is told through letters that are mailed to you every two weeks in your mailbox. Each one comes with a letter from a character to one character to the other character. So far we've received three and they're all, they're letters back and forth between the hero and heroine, which does actually make sense. And I hope, you know, I'm excited for that to continue. And then sometimes you get, you get art with them, character art and maps and like codicils and like all sorts of cool extra little tidbits and, you know, exciting little extras. This is all totally human made, no AI involved in any of it. And it's a really lovely little gift that comes every two weeks. So I, I'm having a great time with it and if you think like, you might want to try this, I. As you all know, I'm not a huge Romantasy fan. But like, this is really doing it for me. The kind of touchy feely experience of

B (58:11)

an epistolary novel too.

A (58:13)

I also love an epistolary. But also if you have someone in your life who loves epistolary, where I'm doing it with my 12 year old. So far, so good.

B (58:21)

So if you would like to check out the Romantasy Letters, you can bring the magic to your mailbox box. Use the code faded for 20 off your year subscription. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to their website. Thanks to Romantasy Letters for sponsoring this week's episode. I'm still riding the Julia Wolf train. Sarah Wolf.

A (58:48)

Excellent.

B (58:49)

And I'm going to talk about in the details now, if you will remember in the. In the book we talked about last week, I guess, right. Luca has a sister, Clara, who. There's like a bunch of drama around her husband. And at the end of the book, it's. For most of the book, Clara is pregnant. And then at the end of the book, Clara, it, like, gives birth. And this actually is like, a big part of the crisis between Luca and Saoirse because he is essentially like, you can't be with my family.

A (59:23)

Right.

B (59:23)

If I have to be with my family now. And so I was like, I wonder if, you know, I was like, I wonder if Clara gets her own book. Because I was pretty curious about. And this is like, listen, I know there, Sarah, there is part of me that's like, not every secondary character needs their own book. And then there is the part of me that's like, these characters who give him every secondary character their book are heroes. Now here's the part that's really interesting. And I would say, like, this, to me, like, the romance baby of it all is just like, this was the one, I think that was. I was, like, really most interested. That made me say, like, maybe we should do romance parenting. And you were like, no, because it has all of the hallmarks of, like, sort of romance baby. Like, right. But then there's, like, this really interesting twist, and I am going to spoil this book. But also the spoiler is in, like, the subtitle. So if. When I looked at this book, it was. It's called in the Details, and then it says, a dual single parent romance. And I was like, okay, that's actually kind of interesting to me because now we're really having to blend families. And what happens is, is Clara is, you know, has a big job at the Rossi Motorcycle Company, and she also loves riding her motorcycle. And the book starts with her out on essentially, like, a long road trip by herself. Just, like, she's ridden for a couple hours, she's gonna ride back, but she stops at this, like, bar, and she picks up this really hot guy and he. Like, I don't. Like, I don't. There's like a little bit of a thing where I was like, wait, why does he know her name is Cece? I don't know if it's like something he sees, but he calls her Cece. She's like, figure, you know, his name's Jake. They have this, like, really intense one night, like, not even, like, one night stand. Like, they go to a Hotel and they just have sex for a couple hours or whatever. And you know, and then she's like, I'm never gonna see this guy again. They don't exchange any information. But of course, that's not how romance works, right? And so she then is out. So Nellie, her daughter, who is just born in Luca's book, is now three. And again, a dazzling three year old vocabulary, like you cannot believe, right? And she's. Of course, three year olds are really fucking cute. There's like a really cute age. And she now is really interesting because Nelly is like, there's a daycare in the office building where Rossi Motors is located. And what happens is, is so she's like, Claire has picked up Nellie, like they're going home. And all of a sudden Nellie's like, I like the flashing lights, mommy. And there is a cop behind them who has pulled her over because she. Both of her tail lights are out. And he's like, you can't drive like that. But luckily you pulled over. Listen, luckily Romance Rhodes, you've pulled over into. You pulled over into a parking lot where there's like a, you know, auto zone or whatever. And so we can you go over there and buy lights and, you know, Nelly's like, drive us over there with the lights. And he's like, sure thing, little lady. Because, you know, okay, yeah, and this is not the hero, everybody, don't worry. And they. She goes in and she like buys the lights. And like, you know, Nelly is like super charming and she says to this kid, I don't actually know how to put. Do anything with these. And the kids, like, don't worry. This is like, not just like an auto zone where you buy parts, there's also a garage. So I'll go over to the garage and get somebody to do it for you. Well, that somebody is Jake. Now you might think, oh, this is going to be an interesting, you know, class romance. Because she's like a rich lady and he's a mechanic. No, that is not how romance works either, I'm sorry to say. And he in fact just like works one day a week at the garage just because he needs to keep. Get his hands dirty or whatever.

A (63:25)

Because why?

B (63:26)

Sure. Because he needs to keep his hands dirty.

A (63:29)

Like, right. He's a billionaire and he's a man of the people.

B (63:32)

Correct. And what it is. And actually it was like, really, There's a lot of really interesting stuff about families here. I continue to really like these Julia Wolf books. So he and his half brother, right, they have. They share A mom? No, they share dad, but have different moms, essentially own this, this chain of like auto parts stores. And the way that he is then. And so anyway, he comes out and he's like, were you stalking me? And she's like, what the. How do you think I was gonna do this? I'm with my kid. What's wrong with you? And then he like replaces it and Nelly's super cute and he like lets her help and somehow she can manage a screwdriver.

A (64:11)

Fine.

B (64:11)

It's fine. That's how three year olds. Definitely not. You definitely want to give a three year old a screwdriver. And then they end up like going to the same like, burger place and like kind of running into each other again. And like, Clara is just like. And here's the part that's great. They're in the, in the car. She's like, Nelly is asleep. Like she's put her in the car seat. And he's like, okay, give me your number. And she's like, I don't want to date. He's like, me neither. I want to fuck. And you and I both live here now and we had great sex. So like, why? Like, let's just have this be a thing. And like, she actually looks like she's going to go for it. And then he says something stupid. So she's like, fuck off. She peels away in her car. Okay, and you're like, wait, now what's going to happen? Well, he is going to and his brother are going to go to Rossi Motors and make a big pitch and now they're going to see each other again. And now she's like, oh, he's not a mechanic. I'm not a snob. He's not a mechanic. He's a billionaire. Fine. Now here's the part that's really interesting. I am reading this book and I am like, I have been told that this is a dual single parent romance. And yet it is a third of the way through the book before you get like kind of the details about this. And I actually really was like, okay, this is cool. Is he has a 13 year old. He's 30. He has a 13 year old. He was a teenage dad. And he, you know, and this is, I don't know, I don't think they ever married. He and the mom are like co parenting. They're very young to have like a teenager. And it's just like a really interesting book because although. And like, right, there's an age gap. Like Claire is 37 and he's 30, but her daughter is so much younger and his is older and, and all of a sudden you're really getting this look at like how are these people who are so different and have such a different, like they're at different stages of their life. It's inverted in some ways. It's really interesting. And also I thought it was also just like kind of a really interesting look at, I don't know, like the way we carry parenting around with us through our daily life. Yeah, right. And I kind of found myself thinking like, think okay, he doesn't like, right. Sage is his daughter doesn't live with him full time. It's like. But I was just really, really fascinated by the idea of like making, I don't know, like he's a. He was 17 when this child was born, right? Like, or just about to be 18 and really kind of like thinking like, wow, how would that impact your life? And I just don't think that sometimes we don't get that right. Like romance parenting is often like I was, you know, perfectly prepared for this or whatever. But we don't really think like what would that look like all these years later? So anyway, I really loved it. It's great. And just really, I thought like, I don't know, Romance Baby is like preternaturally charming and romance kids are going to be your matchmakers and get you to and put you together. But also just really like the responsibility in the way we just like carry. Carry that responsibility through us. I thought this book did a really

A (67:14)

good job at exploring.

B (67:15)

So that's in the Details by Julia Wolf. Let me think.

A (67:25)

You said something about responsibility like discovering, discovering responsibility related to parenting like that, that, that is a, a piece of, of the puzzle with so many of these books. And I want to talk about Lauren Roe, who I have talked about. Cause I think she writes really sexy, like really, really sexy romance. And I want to talk about finding Home, which is a rock star romance and also a single dad romance. But the conceit is really interesting. So the premise is it's like there's a rock star. You know, he's the drummer, the main character, Caleb is the drummer of a rock band and he has a two year old daughter kind of in the wind. He had a, had a child. He has not been in this girl's life, this child's life. The mother dies tragically when the daughter is two and he is basically summoned home to this small town where he has to step up and become a dad. And I think this is a really interesting tee up. It's something that we've seen a lot in his. In romance in general. This kind of like ne' er do well kind of rakish, scoundrel character having to like become a man, you know, because of responsibility. Everybody knows that. One of my very favorite Diana Quincy books is the Duke who Ravished Me. That's the same sort of structure, this kind of like deeply rakish, scoundrelly character discovering that he has twin girl. Like he's the guardian of twin girls, but in this case. So Caleb is their father and he goes home and discovers that in the house where they were, where his daughter was living with his, you know, with her mother is her. Is her mother's best friend, right? So Aubrey, who was the now now passed away mom's best friend, has been living with them forever. Like she's basically like she's auntie to this little girl. She's the hard, the like the like central figure in this little girl's life. She's the pillar of stability in this little girl's life. And she basically is. And he's, he realizes kind of right away that he needs Aubrey to stay, so he hires her as a live in nanny. But what's really interesting about this book is Lauren wrote also if you've read anything else by her, she really, she really sits in complex emotion in her books. And Aubrey is obviously like, like extraordinarily concerned about this like drummer from a rock band who has never been around turning up to like take this little girl, like to become a father to this little girl who he's never like had a relationship with. He is, has had struggles with addiction in the past. He is having to like deal with sobriety. He's having to prove his sobriety. Custody is on the table here because he's never been around. And so like this is an extremely complicated situation that Lauren Roe sort of thrusts us into. And where a lot of authors would have just sort of said like, okay, he's home and he's a rock star and he's gonna just fall in love with this woman and they're gonna live happily ever after. That is not a Lauren Roe plot. Like, Lauren is gonna make you really like, like sit in the complexity of all of these like strange feelings, these complex moments, these difficult hurdles that have to be cleared in order for you to find happily ever after. Also, it's going to be extraordinarily sexy. So this is Finding Home by Lauren Roe. And yeah, it's just interesting because she does something That I. I don't think I had. I have seen before.

B (71:46)

Yeah. Interesting.

A (71:47)

It is interesting.

B (71:50)

Okay, I want to talk about Alexis Daria. I do think she is a person who writes families and like. Or like parents. Right. And especially kind of like single dads. And in two of the three Primas of Power books, you have like a single dad. Now this is like in. In. In the third book, which is Along Came Amor. Like, it's actually like more like romance matchmaker. Like his daughter is a teenager and like, almost like kind of doesn't need him anymore. And he's really, I don't know, like sort of this like a poignant thing for him. Like he is hyper aware of like his daughter. Like, I think she's even like applying for college.

A (72:36)

Right.

B (72:37)

Like, sort of like kind of like being at the end maybe of like a parenting journey or like.

A (72:42)

Right.

B (72:43)

Like the big. Kind of the big part of parenting. But it's. You had me at hola. Which I really want to talk about. Which this is a little bit of, I think a spoiler for the book,

A (72:53)

but I had forgotten that was a single parent. Yeah.

B (72:55)

But I. Because I think it's like really interesting the way that it plays out, which is Jasmine and Ashton are cast together to be like in a telenovela. Like they're going to be the leads. And you know, there's all of this like really intense chemistry between them. But the problem, I guess is that like, Jasmine can tell that somehow like she's missing something. Right. Like, she. There's like a really like finely tuned sense from her that there is. And I think, you know, like, like essentially that I think Ashton's like keeping a secret. And what it ends up being is that he has an 8 year old son who his. Who lives in Puerto Rico with his parents.

A (73:41)

And that the reason that he keeps

B (73:44)

everything about this child incredibly secret is because there was a, like a kidnapping threat or I can't. You know, it's been a while since I've actually read this. I just was like thinking about this, like something that. That essentially scared the out of him.

A (73:59)

Yeah.

B (74:00)

Right. So much so that he was like, I don't ever want my child to be in the spotlight, to ever be in social media, to have people have any sense of him, of me with him. Like, it. It just is too.

A (74:13)

He.

B (74:14)

He doesn't like.

A (74:15)

Right.

B (74:15)

Like, he doesn't deserve that. But also like, I. I can't do that. But like, I can't be responsible for like essentially ruining his life this way. He deserves to be A child. But then what this means is that his ability to actively parent is also really compromised because then he can. Only when he's home and seeing his family, right, Seeing his parents and his son, can he really be a dad. And so he's really, like, kind of almost like, created like a really big wall between his professional life and his personal life to a point that, like, is. It's just really hard for him, you know, And I just found this all very. I remember just feeling really, like, how devastating, right? Like, you really get that. Like, he is trying to. I mean, I think this, to me was. I don't know, like, I'm not sure, like, the ro. What the. Like, the romance baby of it all is. Is like. But just like, then when Jasmine, like, figures out what's going on and this kid is again, like, preternaturally adorable. And, like, once he comes to, you know, really wants to come to New York and, like, you know, Jasmine and his, you know, meets him with his parents, it's just like this great scene, but really, like, you really. I really felt like it became really clear to me that one of, like, the really beautiful things about this book is that the hea for him was not just going to be, like, falling in love with Jasmine, but, like, figuring out how to, like, bring, like, tear down that wall, right? And bring the two parts of his life together. And then, of course, for Jasmine, it's kind of like, well, wait, I'm gonna be a mom now. I'm gonna be a stepmom. I didn't even realize this man had kids. And here we. I am already in love with him. And I just thought it was, like, really a. A really amazing setup for, like, sort of. Here is like a. It is not played. I don't know, like, it's not played for leg laughs or giggles. Like, this is a really serious thing. But, like, metaphorically speaking, the idea of, like, what does it really mean to fall in love with someone when they have a family and a background that you don't know and you're gonna have to, like, blend your lives together? And so it's just like, I felt like also, it didn't. It was great. I really love that book. And I just think, in general, it was a really interesting, really fascinating sort of, like, what would a. How terrifying it would be to be very famous and have children. And have children. Yeah, right. And. And, like, the cost of that. Right. Like, you shouldn't have to, like, not be a parent because people are crazy. So I. I just really Loved it. I thought it was great. And so it just does really interesting things again, I think, with, like, families and. But, like, also, you know, fulfilling a lot of the, like, romance baby tenets. Yeah.

A (77:06)

I have. I have two more that I want to talk about, and they are both slightly different, and one of them isn't really, like. All right. Anyway, I just want to name check because I think it's so clever. The conceit of the whole series is so clever, and it's just like a tiny thing and it's not even really romance baby, but I do. I can't think of another trope that I would be able to sort of sing the praises of this with.

B (77:32)

And that is.

A (77:33)

I want to talk just briefly about the conceit of Eloisa James's Essex Sisters series, which is so. This. The premise is like, she always talks about it as, like, she was reading Little Women with her daughter. And, like, she came up with this idea to write historical romances about, like, the four sisters in Little Women. And the way that it's structured is in the very, very first book in the series, the Essex Sisters have lost their parents and they are sent to the countryside, to the home of a duke who is now their guardian. They become his wards. And they are, like, largely of marriageable age. Like, they become of marriageable age over the course of the series. Right. So the first One is, like, 19, and the others are all younger. He's a drunk. Like, he's. Listen, Eloisa takes a lot of big swings with this series. It is one of my. It is probably my favorite of her series. It's quite.

B (78:28)

It's quite old.

A (78:30)

And she takes a ton of really big swings here that, you know, he's a. He's a duke. He is the hero of one of the books. That book is a Guardian Ward romance. And he is, like. He is an alcoholic. Like, there is. So at the beginning of the book of the series, when we meet him, he's, like, alcoholic duke who's single and rakish. Not even really rakish. He's sort of like, alone in the house, like Beauty and the Beast. And he's been told these four girls are coming to live with him. So he fills the nursery with, like, toys and rocking horses.

B (79:09)

Amazing.

A (79:09)

And pinafores, these girls.

B (79:12)

And then they show up and they're all, like, teenagers. Yeah.

A (79:16)

Marriageable.

B (79:18)

Amazing.

A (79:19)

And it is so, like, listen, I. It's not romance baby, but it is one of.

B (79:24)

You know, if I were to say,

A (79:26)

like, if you said to me like name the 10, the top 10, like, delightful moments in historicals. This might compete for one of them. This sort of revelation of this idiot man.

B (79:38)

Yeah, yeah, of course.

A (79:39)

That he has prepared for four children and he received four, like, women who need to get married.

B (79:46)

Hilarious.

A (79:47)

So that one. And then I think it's worth also talking about Tal Bowers. You and me here. People love Tal Bower and he's a hugely popular author on the Discord. And I know the Discord members are all like, talk about Talbauer.

B (80:06)

I know, I thought that too. Yeah.

A (80:07)

I want to. And the reason why I maybe wouldn't is because this is a very serious. This sort of takes romance, baby. And bring. Like, this is not about romance, baby. This is like a very serious single parent romance. But you and me is two single dads. And one of the single dads is sort of like the golden boy of high school, of the high school football, you know, space. He's the father of like, this, like, bright, beautiful high school football player. And he's. Everybody loves him.

B (80:43)

That's Landon.

A (80:44)

And then the other one, Luke, has lost his wife and he has a son who also plays football and is best friends with Landon's son. And this kid loves football, loves this world, and has. Is really broken by the loss of his mother. Understandable. These are teenagers and Luke is.

B (81:06)

And like, he. Luke is a can't. Does not apparent him. Right.

A (81:10)

This is a lot of tension.

B (81:11)

Right. Yeah.

A (81:12)

And so Luke kind of. Because this is a teenager who's lost his mom, he's like, really in a rough place. Luke has lost his wife. He's really in a rough place. Like, they don't talk to each other. They don't really know how to manage each other. And he has.

B (81:30)

Is.

A (81:30)

Luke is a wreck about this. Like.

B (81:32)

Yeah.

A (81:32)

So he volunteers to basically, like, help out with like, yeah, high school football stuff. But he doesn't know anything about football.

B (81:43)

No.

A (81:44)

And so, like, it. Everything he does makes it worse for him with his kid. Like, he just. Everything he tries, it's just. He just fails. And he is really a real. At the beginning of this book. And Landon is like, perfect in every way. And like, this perfect makes it all look so easy. Football dad. And he makes everything look easy. And so the two of them strike up this friendship where Landon is basically like, I will help you understand football and I will help you understand, like, how to deal with these kids, these boys at this age. And. And so this is really like the story of. And then they, you know, the first third is Them, like, really becoming friends, and then they're. This is a little bit of a bi. Awakening book. Like, they sort of. They realize that they are into each other. It's a very slow burn, but it's really emotional. And it's. I would say, like, it is not. This is not a funny book. This is not, like a fun book. This is a heavy duty book.

B (82:50)

Yeah.

A (82:50)

But it's really doing important work around, like, fatherhood, around understanding children, around. And then, of course, the, like, long slow burn of two people falling in love. So that's Tal Bowers, you and me. And now everybody on the discord is happy.

B (83:09)

I. It's funny because I was sort of on a little mentally on my list too, as one that's, like, really interesting. Okay, I have again, I'm gonna, like. I'm gonna talk about one more, like, kind of romance baby idea and then also tell you some funny things I couldn't think of books for because they just are. They just exist unrelated to a certain text. So. Okay. One really other funny, like, sort of romance thing I thought was, like, okay, romance kids are never mad about moving. Yeah. Right. Because, like, in real life, if you moved your teenagers, they would destroy you. Right. Like, Yeah.

A (83:47)

I mean, I'm trying to think maybe you're right. But also, like, I feel like. Is that true romance kids are never mad.

B (83:54)

No, romance kids. I mean, like. Right. Like, we move. I mean, maybe, but, like. Right. So one of the books thinking about. No, I can't think of anything right. Is this book Big Witch Energy by Molly Harper. And, like, again, it's like, literally an island in Lake Michigan.

A (84:08)

Sure.

B (84:09)

And the two main characters, it's. It's actually, I think this is also really fun, is Caroline, who, because of a curse on her family, cannot leave the island. And then Ben, who was essentially, like, her high school sweetheart, who then, like, left the island and became a doctor. And she was supposed to go with him, but she could never explain. Like, basically, I'm cursed. Cursed. So I can't. And he ends up going off, going to medical school, getting married and having kids. And they then, like, he moves them back to Starfall. Starfall Point, which is like the name of its little island. And the thing that I just, like, remember thinking is, like, Ben's kids are like, again, super cool. Like, totally fine with it. Like, don't worry, dad. This is what we have to do, like, to a certain extent.

A (85:00)

Right.

B (85:00)

Like, as opposed to being like, I hate you.

A (85:06)

Right.

B (85:06)

And I think part of that, though, is. And, like, you know, Part of it's funny because I also didn't reread this book. Maybe there's more of them that than I remember. But I think part of it is there's like kind of two things that like, ameliorate any tension about the move. And one is, is that like, Starfall Point is like, magical. And one of the things that they sort of discover is that the kids themselves also sort of have some magic to them. So there's a way that they like just like lock into this place because it's their home. Right. This is where Ben grew up. But also, I think the other like, really smart thing it does is it sets up this tension between Caroline, who has never been able to like, sort of make a family because she can't leave the island. She sort of, you know, just has like one night stands with like, kind of people who are there for the summer or like brief affairs with people who are there for the summer, versus Ben, who has like left and made a family and is now like back. And so again, there's sort of like a lot of this, like, tension between these two. But yeah, these kids are like, you know, super mature and everything's great. The one I couldn't think of a book for Sarah though, is one of my favorite romance baby things of all time. Tell me, Lay it on me. It's a historical. Yeah. That the parent. The parentage of this child is in question. Oh, oh, birthmark.

A (86:36)

Yes.

B (86:38)

But don't worry, that child will have the birthmark in the exact place that only a child of this family have the birthmark. I did. I mean, it's the best.

A (86:51)

Has not used this as proof of legitimacy.

B (86:54)

Who among us. But I couldn't think of a single specific.

A (86:58)

I mean, this is the problem because

B (86:59)

I think it's so.

A (87:01)

It's so common. Yes.

B (87:03)

It's such a trope. Oh, yeah. But I was like, yeah, you can tell who is the parents, the father.

A (87:11)

Now listen, this romance birthmark, this is also. This is a G. Devereaux hallmark, I'm sure. Like, there's, you know, I can see it in my head.

B (87:19)

There was.

A (87:20)

There is one of those classic old school ones here. There's. Let me paint you a picture. He. There's like the. The. It's a. It's got to be secret baby though, too. That's the thing. They go hand in hand.

B (87:33)

Yeah.

A (87:33)

Where he like, storms in and his, you know.

B (87:37)

Yes.

A (87:38)

Wet. He's been riding along the moors. He's heavy with his chain mail or his great coat. Whatever.

B (87:45)

You pick whatever time period.

A (87:47)

We did romance wardrobe last. Last year, last week. And he like throws everything off and he like thunders through the house to the baby like asleep in the bassinet. And then he starts to undress it and she runs to the baby to like save it. To protect it from his like brutish hands. Sure. And she. And he like sort of pushes her. He like knocks her away. Not like, not like scary knots, but like pushes her away.

B (88:16)

Right.

A (88:17)

And then his giant, you know, dinner plate size hands open up the thing and then he checks and she's screaming, don't touch it. Don't touch him. And then he looks and there's like a.

B (88:29)

Sure. Birthmark shaped like a lion's head.

A (88:32)

Yes, exactly. It's always shaped like something noticeable. Of course.

B (88:38)

Of course. A bookmark shaped like a bottle of wine. And we happen to own a winery.

A (88:44)

Who knew? And then he knows that's his child. How dare she keep it from him.

B (88:53)

Sure.

A (88:54)

While he was out there.

B (88:56)

Sure. Killing baddies can around on his big ass horse. I mean, I'm just telling you.

A (89:02)

And I literally was romance biology, but

B (89:07)

I was like, what is like really the most romance baby of all thing is like, you are. This baby is mine. Because this birthday.

A (89:12)

100%. That is correct. But Montgomery.

B (89:17)

Yeah.

A (89:17)

Birthmark or whatever.

B (89:18)

Yes, whatever it is.

A (89:20)

And you know what I love about that, Jen? It just everything we were just like, yeah, okay. Huh. Sure.

B (89:28)

Sarah. I have a birthmark on the back of my leg. I literally remember at one point being with my dad when he's wearing shorts and be like, is that back there?

A (89:38)

Well, because romance, my brother have this. Yeah, sure. Yeah. We just, we just believe it. Everyone has this. And this is my thing whenever anybody's. I see authors online a lot, like newer authors going like, well, like how do I expl. Like I have to explain all this world building or I have to do this, I have to do that. And I'm like, no, just say it is lore. Every person in the McLean line has had a tattoo or has had a birdish mark on their like left. It's also with women, it's with girls. It's always on like the left butt cheek.

B (90:18)

Yes. And it's like something like that.

A (90:19)

Yes. And then like so that he can see it when he's.

B (90:23)

Yes, sure.

A (90:25)

And like it's amazing.

B (90:27)

Perfect.

A (90:27)

Just tell us us it has always been thus and we will be like, yes.

B (90:32)

That is seems great. Here's another thing though. Just like taking away from romance to real life in romance you can take a pregnancy test like a day later and it's gonna tell you.

A (90:48)

Okay, listen, I, I have to say about Bridgerton, I have a bridge real life.

B (90:53)

I would like to. You actually need to wait a few weeks.

A (90:55)

That is correct. Also in real life, you can't get pregnant one day later. Not how any of that works in Bridgerton season.

B (91:06)

Whatever. We're in. Yes.

A (91:08)

Sophie and Benedict not spoiling anything because you're all romance readers. They.

B (91:15)

Before marriage.

A (91:16)

And Sophie is like. Starts to count her date in her calendar.

B (91:25)

Yeah.

A (91:26)

And it's like. And I actually really love the fact that like they were like, okay, she's gonna count. She's tracking her cycle. And I mean, she doesn't say it like we're sort of asked to divine it through. Like, her having a little red X. I don't know where she got red ink, everybody. But it's fine. Don't worry about it. Having a little red. How does a maid have red ink? It doesn't matter. So it's. It is the Bridgeton house. They have a lot of money. So she has a little red, red X on her calendar. And so she's like tracking her days and the Internet currently is going crazy because they fuck eight days before she's supposed to get her period.

B (92:03)

Yeah.

A (92:03)

And she's tracking her days. And the Internet is like, you can't. If they, if they have sex eight days before her period, like, and she has a 28 day cycle, that's way too late for her to. And I'm like, you guys, first of all, this is 1810. Like these are 1816. There's no way these ladies are aware ovulation. Right. Like, these ladies don't even know what happens during sex. Were you paying attention to Bridgerton season one where like Daphne was like, I

B (92:31)

don't know, he's been all over the floor.

A (92:33)

But I'm still not pregnant.

B (92:39)

Romance science wants it both ways.

A (92:43)

Oh. Anyway, but my other thing. So I just want to tell everybody to calm down. Yeah. But also I think, I think it. I. I'm like, okay, this is pretty cool. Like, I'm glad that. I'm glad that Bridgerton is acknowledging that like pregnancy is a real concern.

B (93:03)

Yes.

A (93:04)

If you spent all night Benedict Bridgerton in his childhood bedroom.

B (93:09)

Yeah, well, you know, sure. That seems nice.

A (93:14)

In a echoey room in Bridgerton house. I just.

B (93:19)

Listen, listen, I'm saying I just worked. I am actually enjoying.

A (93:22)

Here's what I would say, everybody. I'm whatever. I'm on episode seven. Oh. Episode six. And I am actually really enjoying the Bridgerton, the Sophie Benedict story. Although I will say there's.

B (93:33)

I'm having a little bit of, like,

A (93:36)

I'm realizing that again, we've talked about this before, but, like, the books have been. Are so old compared to, like, so much has shifted in the way that we think about things. That I am kind of like, the premise of this. This is also not a spoiler because it's in all the trailers for this season, but he asks her, she's a maid, he's not. And he asks her to be his mistress.

B (94:01)

Yeah.

A (94:03)

And her response is a very sort of classic historical romance response, which is like, how dare you?

B (94:08)

How dare.

A (94:10)

How dare you, like, suggest that I lower myself?

B (94:14)

Yeah.

A (94:14)

At least as a maid, I am respectable. And that feels weird in 2026.

B (94:21)

Yeah, well, like, I mean, sex work

A (94:23)

of it all just wasn't there in the text, in the. In 2000 when the book came out, you know.

B (94:28)

No, but I mean, I think this is always, like, you know, romance money is that, like, no matter how much money this man has, you would never say, like, yeah, please claim my electric bill. You're a billionaire, and I, I'm, you know, or whatever. Like, Right. Like, pride goeth before, like, that man's money. And, you know, that's a patriarchy. Let him pay electric bill, everybody.

A (94:46)

But I will say, everybody, we did do a great episode on Mistresses and Courtesans with Adriana Herrera a couple seasons ago, and maybe we'll put links to that in the show notes if you are also looking for just like, a different kind of take on mistressing. Well.

B (94:59)

And you know what? If you would like to hear about breeding Kink, we have an episode for that. And New Year's Milk and Eve, we have an episode about that. But like, Romance Baby is like, like, you know, we're actually talking about kids as people. So anyway, we hope you had a

A (95:11)

nice kids and parents as people.

B (95:13)

Yeah.

A (95:15)

So that's that. Look at us. We talked about books and everything. Eric, you're welcome in. It is March, but April is coming. And on Friday, April 10, I will be at the Rip Bodice in New York City with Kate Clayborn celebration the launch of her incredible new book, the Paris Match. I will have faded maid stickers. We'll talk about fun stuff, including her tremendous book. And the tickets are available right now with the purchase of a book from the red bodice.

B (95:48)

So am I incredibly jealous? The answer is yes.

A (95:53)

Well, it's Friday night. You could fly out, could rush to. To o' Hare fly out to us. Yeah, like a romance hero. A romance hero would. Would not miss it, Jen.

B (96:05)

Well, they're all billionaires with their own private planes, and I gotta go to work, but I love you all.

A (96:10)

Well, if you'd like to get us a little bit closer to Jen being a billionaire, you could join our Patreon.

B (96:16)

That's definitely how it works, everyone.

A (96:20)

Where every member of our Patreon gets an. It gets out access to an extra episode of the podcast every week and the access to the private Fated Mates discord where people are hanging out every day talking about romance and books that they love. At there is this great channel where every time we drop an episode, you know, it explodes with people who have other book recommendations who want to have a conversation with us about the episode and want to have a conversation with each other about the episode. It's very, very fun over there. You can do that@patreon.com fatedmates or fatedmates.net patreon, whichever you prefer. Also, speaking of fademates.net, that's where you can find all of the show notes that we talk about. You can find out, find links to anything that we talk about, including an entire list of all the books that we mentioned today. And that includes even the ones that sort of are throwaway books that we sort of say, oh, and I love this one, but let's talk about this other one. Everything will be there, so you can click through and check everything out. You can also find us online at Faded Mates Pod on threads and Instagram and at Fated Mates on Blue Sky. And yeah, that's the whole of it. We're here every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks so much for listening.

B (97:35)

And I don't know, go have a

A (97:37)

conversation with a kid in your life.

B (97:38)

They're cool.

A (97:40)

They are.

B (97:40)

I agree.