Ep 1208 | Caitlin Clark & The WNBA’s Rope-A-Dope: Why A Storm Owner CURSED OUT Kids

Summary

Fearless with Jason Whitlock — Episode 1208 Summary

Episode Title: Caitlin Clark & The WNBA’s Rope-A-Dope: Why A Storm Owner CURSED OUT Kids
Date: July 30, 2026
Host: Jason Whitlock
Guests/Panelists: Charles Robinson, Maurice, Steve Kim

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the latest controversy in the WNBA, where a Seattle Storm co-owner verbally attacked two teenage girls holding supportive signs at a game. Jason Whitlock and his panel dissect the incident, the WNBA’s and media’s reaction, and what it reveals about the current culture in women’s basketball. The wider discussion explores the pressures on superstar Caitlin Clark, the dynamics within the Indiana Fever backcourt, league politics, and the role of envy as a driving force in sports and media narratives.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Inciting Incident: WNBA Owner’s Outburst

• The Seattle Storm’s part-owner, Celeste Keaton, confronted two teen girls at a game (00:00–04:00).
  • She told the girls, “I hope Jesus can forgive you for what sin you've done,” called them “effing insane,” and berated them until one cried (01:40).
• The girls were only holding a sign: “Thank you, Sophie, for speaking up for the girls.”
• The WNBA confirmed the incident and issued a suspension and fine, but their official statement minimized the incident as mere “comments” and did not name the owner.

“She packaged profanity and Jesus and screamed at two teenage girls and they call it comments. And that this happened like it was the weather.” – Jason Whitlock (03:41)

2. Media and League Response: The Victim on Trial

• The league and mainstream media are accused of downplaying the owner’s misconduct while pivoting criticism and pressure onto Caitlin Clark.
• The press quickly asked if WNBA players were being “forced into politics” instead of focusing on the incident’s accountability.
  • Dan Le Batard Show Clip: Framing Caitlin Clark as a political symbol, not a basketball star (07:02).
  • Elle Duncan: Called for Clark to denounce her fans for actions done by others, fueling an endless cycle of blame (10:30).
  • USA Today: Compared the situation to Emmett Till, dramatically escalating the rhetorical stakes (11:08–12:00).

“Caitlyn Clark has already on tape more than once, but never enough on tape [denouncing things]. The denunciation has never been the point.” – Jason Whitlock (11:08)

3. Staged Culture Wars & Manufactured Drama

• Whitlock and his panel insist the situation feels “staged”, with both sides—pro and anti-trans rights—possibly planting fans and signs for maximum media exposure (12:32–13:10; 38:43).
• The media’s focus is viewed as strategic: keeping Clark embroiled in controversy, not basketball (13:07–14:09).

“Somebody assigned these roles before the ball went up. The owner plays the heel, the media plays the prosecutor, and Caitlin Clark is cast as the defendant…” – Jason Whitlock (13:10)

4. The Rope-A-Dope Analogy: Making Clark the Dope (15:12–21:59)

• Whitlock compares Clark’s treatment to Muhammad Ali’s “rope-a-dope” strategy.
  • Instead of beating Clark on the court, critics are trying to exhaust her emotionally and mentally with relentless off-court controversies.
  • He warns Clark: “Are you the dope? Because right now, Caitlyn, you're fighting Foreman's fight, playing the victim. And the victim is the dope.” (19:11)
• Advice: Clark needs to avoid emotional traps, stop seeking justice from referees, and focus on winning.

“If you control Caitlin Clark, the Fever win it all, and your critics lose it all. Step off the ropes. Stop asking the referees for justice, and go take it on the scoreboard… Don’t be the dope. Be the champion.” – Jason Whitlock (21:39)

5. The Real Threat: Clark’s Economy & Changing the League (15:13–16:12)

• Clark and Sophie Cunningham are bringing record crowds and revenue.
• Cunningham, previously a little-known bench player, is now selling out shoes and gaining stardom off her unapologetic, all-American persona.
• This threatens the league’s established ideological and social hierarchy.

6. Race, Envy, and Divide & Conquer Tactics

• Envy, not just ideology, is argued to be a driving force behind the constant controversies (“Wrath is cruel and anger is outrageous. But who is able to stand before envy?” – Proverbs 27:4, 00:01).
• Efforts are seen to sow division—especially between Clark (white) and Mitchell (black)—to keep the focus off basketball success.

“Clark's critics want to drive a wedge between [her and Kelsey Mitchell]. So far, Kelsey Mitchell won't let it happen. She's too smart, too mature, too filled with grace.” – Jason Whitlock (16:16)

7. Indiana Fever Backcourt: Chemistry, Credit, and Growth

• Detailed discussion of Caitlin Clark and Kelsey Mitchell’s partnership (40:13–51:18).
  • Debate over who deserves more credit for the team’s surge, with Charles Robinson explaining basketball nuances (e.g., backdoor cuts, dribble handoffs).
  • Agreement that both are crucial, and the chemistry is now “officially back” (48:02).
• The panel warns against orchestrated narratives that pit the two stars against each other.

“This is the best backcourt the WNBA has ever seen. It's the best backcourt combination basketball has seen since Steph and Klay were in their peak.” – Charles Robinson (40:23)

8. Sophie Cunningham’s Meteoric Rise

• Sophie’s off-court popularity—shoe deals, image, controversy—sparks jealousy and adds new pressure to Clark (51:28–54:56).
• Discussion about whether Cunningham’s rise helps or hurts Clark, with most panelists agreeing that it intensifies scrutiny and possibly animosity.

9. Hatred and Jealousy: Player Dynamics vs. Media Narratives

• Charles Robinson claims that most supposed hatred among players is media-driven and overblown, arguing it's more on-court competition than personal animus (55:57–57:08).
• Maurice counters with examples of mean messages, suggesting some real jealousy exists.

“The hatred is not what you think it is. You can't take the action of a few and try to put it in with a whole group. That's just not fair to them.” – Charles Robinson (57:08)

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Memorable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the Owner’s Actions:
  “A grown millionaire owner used the name of Jesus as a weapon against those two girls, two little teenage girls for holding a thank you sign.”
  – Jason Whitlock (03:07)

• On the League’s Response:
  “She packaged profanity and Jesus and screamed at two teenage girls and they call it comments. And that this happened like it was the weather.”
  – Jason Whitlock (03:41)

• On Media Pressure:
  "People who think they are her [Clark’s] fans but are using her. And if she would say, stop that. I don't want it. I'm tired of it... stuff has to stop."
  – Elle Duncan (10:30)

• On the “Rope-a-Dope” Strategy:
  "They want you flailing at referees. They want you emptying your emotional tank into every insult in the building. Swinging at ghosts until there's nothing left in the eighth round. That's a rope-a-dope... and a rope-a-dope only works on one man in the ring. The dope. So a question for you, Caitlyn. Are you the dope? Because right now, Caitlyn, you're fighting Foreman's fight, playing the victim. And the victim is the dope."
  – Jason Whitlock (18:08–19:11)

• On Sophie Cunningham’s Sudden Fame:
  "Sophie Cunningham. A backup, a role player. She dropped a shoe line and it sold out instantly. A reserve guard outselling All Stars. Because Sophie's fearless... She's becoming the second biggest star in this league off the bench."
  – Jason Whitlock (14:17)

• On Dividing Clark and Mitchell:
  "That's a strategy. It's a strategy to put Caitlin Clark at odds with her teammates, particularly Kelsey Mitchell. Clark is white and Mitchell is black. Clark's critics want to drive a wedge between the two of them."
  – Jason Whitlock (16:12)

• On Clark and Mitchell Backcourt:
  “This is the best backcourt the WNBA has ever seen. It's the best backcourt combination basketball has seen since Steph and Klay were in their peak.”
  – Charles Robinson (40:23)

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Additional Segments

Tony Romo’s DUI Incident (58:39–61:10)

• Brief discussion on whether Romo’s DUI and associated negative press could endanger his broadcasting career, especially since his poor judgment extended to lying about a family emergency.

Travis Kelce’s “Dad Bod” & The Chiefs (62:36–65:13)

• Light-hearted segment on preseason NFL, poking fun at Travis Kelce’s shape and discussing the Chiefs’ outlook.

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Structural Notes

• Format: Fast-moving dialog with clear attributions, passionate and conversational, often combative and richly detailed.
• Tone: Combines sports talk, cultural commentary, and a “calling out the nonsense” sensibility.
• Panel Dynamics: Varied perspectives prevent groupthink; plenty of friendly needling and pushback.

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Key Takeaways

• The WNBA’s latest controversy is illustrative of larger, orchestrated culture wars and media-manufactured drama, aiming not at accountability but at protracting division.
• Caitlin Clark is both the league’s savior and scapegoat, targeted with unceasing demands and blame. The league and media simultaneously benefit from her popularity and resent the audience she brings.
• True “inclusivity” and grace are found in the athletes themselves (Clark, Cunningham, Mitchell), not in the leaders or media talking heads.
• The only way for Clark to transcend these challenges is on the court—by winning and refusing to play victim to engineered cultural warfare.

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This summary covers all critical topics and memorable moments, paraphrases and includes direct quotes with timestamps. It provides context for the WNBA incident, expert basketball analysis, and the broader cultural debate, all in the direct, opinionated voice of the show’s contributors.

Transcript

[Jason Whitlock]

Proverbs 27 and 4. Wrath is cruel and anger is outrageous. But who is able to stand before envy? Nobody. Nobody stands before envy. The WNBA suspended one of its own owners yesterday. Find the franchise for what? For a part owner of the Seattle Storm standing over two teenage girls, telling them she hoped Jesus could forgive their sin.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

And.

[Jason Whitlock]

And cursing them until one of them cried. The league admitted it happened. They punished her. And in the same breath their statement called. Screaming profanities at children. Comments. And their head coach called that night successful. They confessed to the crime and defended the culture in one motion. Because the culture is the point. This league begged for attention for years and. And Caitlin Clark and Sophie Cunningham finally

[Charles Robinson]

delivered it, along with millions of traditional sports fans.

[Jason Whitlock]

That fan base is exactly who they hate. Let's start with what's not in dispute, because the league confirmed it Tuesday. Two teenage girls sit courtside holding a sign at the Fever Storm game. Thank you, Sophie, for speaking up for the girls. That's the provocation. The. That's the whole crime. And Storm co owner Celeste Keaton walks up to those children and unloads. I hope Jesus can forgive you for what sin you've done. God can save you. Points at her own head. Calls them effing insane. One of the girls, I've never been yelled at like that. She started screaming at us and cussing at us. It was caught on video. Listen for yourself.

[Teenage Girl 1]

Well, we were just sitting there through signs that said, like, we love Sophie. Like, thank you, Sophie, for speaking up. And so we were holding on, just watching the game again. We were being super great. We hadn't said anything to anyone else. We were being super respectful. We were just holding our signs and cheering for both teams. And this lady, older lady, comes up to us, and she comes up to us. And at first, I think she's gonna be nice. And she asked like, what are you guys doing? Or something like that.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Yeah.

[Teenage Girl 1]

And then it was like, jesus loves everyone. That's what she told us. And I was like, oh, I. Like, I'm religious. Like, I know. Like, yeah. And she's like, oh, I hope Jesus can forgive you for what sin you've done. And, like, something like that. And then she told us that we were effing insane and that we did. And she went like this. Yeah. She's like, you. You better stop this and stop pulling this. Yeah. And for you guys, I hope God can save you. Yeah. She said for you to come here and pull this. She said the word.

[Maurice]

Yeah.

[Teenage Girl 1]

Did she say effing insane or the. No she. Yeah, she said the word nobody around you. Spoke up for you. No, no, I will say Annalie, when I came over, you were in. Yeah, I've never been yelled at like that. I mean, I've had people hate on me on the Internet, but like, it doesn't really affect me as much because it's just people online. But that just took me side surprise because I thought she was gonna be nice and then she started like screaming at us and cussing at us.

[Jason Whitlock]

So, yeah, a grown millionaire owner used the name of Jesus as a weapon against those two girls, two little teenage girls for holding a thank you sign. Then. Then the mask really drops. The WNBA suspended her and fined the team. So they can't tell you it didn't happen. Now let's read the apology they built around it. One of our own, one of our co owners made comments To. To 2 fans, we apologize that this happened. Made comments, we apologize this happened. She packaged profanity and Jesus and screamed at two teenage girls and they call it comments. And that this happened like it was the weather. A cold front moved through Seattle last night. They never name her, never say what she said, and then pledge an inclusive

[Charles Robinson]

environment where every fan is treated with respect.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

Respect.

[Jason Whitlock]

The exact value the the she torched. Reprinted as brand promise. Their head coach asked if fans felt welcome, said the night was successful.

[Charles Robinson]

Take a listen, coach.

[Teenage Girl 1]

There was an anti trans rally before the game inspired by a WNBA player. As a member of the LGBTQ community and in your workplace, what was your reaction knowing that this was happening right outside of your door?

[Stephanie White]

Yeah, I mean, you know, Seattle and this organization and Climate Pledge, like, we always want to be an area where people feel welcome coming into this building. I think we've always done a really good job with that. So I know our organization was, you know, working closely with Climate Pledge and with security to just make sure that, you know, everybody feels safe and included and welcome when they walk in this door. And from what I understand, that was successful.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, that was successful. That's not contrition. They punished the woman and defended the culture that produced her in the same press release. And the actual leader in this story is the bench player they were fighting about, Sophie Cunningham. Listen to what Sophie Cunningham had to say. I truly believe there is a safe space and love for everybody. Biological girls, biological boys, trans women, trans men. Everyone is welcome at my table. You can disagree and still be kind to the girls. Bravo for standing up for what you believe to the owner. Truly embarrassing, unfortunately shows the type of leader she is. So here's Sophie Cunningham. The most grace, the most, the most backbone and the most actual inclusivity in this whole story came from the role player the establishment is trying to bury. Not the owner, not the league office, not one analyst at espn. This was never about a sign. It's about who that sign represents. Caitlin Clark, Sophie Cunningham, and the millions of normal heterosexual sports fans they dragged in to these arenas. This league resents the audience that legitimized it.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

There's that fire. Grab your popcorn.

[Jason Whitlock]

If this were an organic fan, dust up. The story writes itself. Owner behaves badly, owner gets punished. Everybody moves on.

[Charles Robinson]

That's not what happened.

[Jason Whitlock]

The whole media apparatus turned around and, and put the victim on trial. Same afternoon Dan lebartard's show, he asked with a straight face, are WNBA players being forced into politics?

[Charles Robinson]

Play the clip.

[Dan Le Batard]

Caitlin Clark is now a political figure. Could not have thought of any of that in her dreams. Whatever her dreams were about being a basketball player. Could not have imagined they're going to be talking about my technical fouls all the time. The amount of pressure and stress we are putting on all of these people, all of these people in sports, not just. I'm not. I don't want to make Caitlin Clark sound like a victim. It just sucks to see her reach her dreams and have it not feel good. Like it have sports feel super shitty when you're doing the things we all want sports to be when we're dreaming about it in the backyard.

[Steve Kim]

I, I think the part that's unfair to her, to Angel, Reese, to all of them, is that they become avatars in, in a proxy war between people who don't give a about their sport, that's the big thing. If it were heated, like people saying LeBron or MJ, like, at least when you talk about LeBron, MJ, even though it's a dumb argument, like, you know, that the people arguing here actually watch basketball, actually care to say that LeBron is greater than Jordan or vice versa. Right. When it comes to people arguing Caitlin Clark versus fill in the blank. Like the majority of the combatants in this arena are people who don't really watch. They just, they like, oh well, Caitlin Clark or I heard that she's like, da, da, da. Like, oh yeah, it stands up for good American values. And so now I'm going to say she is my favorite. Sophie Cunningham is my favorite player. Player that averages less than 10 points a game, who is a very nondescript role player in the wnba becomes this kind of lightning rod for people who don't watch Women's basketball.

[Charles Robinson]

This is rich coming from the Le Batard show. I mean, it is really rich.

[Jason Whitlock]

I just sit here and think, oh, how did we get here? You know, they're. They're forcing politics on all these players. And, and it's just unfair. And.

[Charles Robinson]

And me and Dan used to be friends, good friends. And I still got affinity for Dan,

[Jason Whitlock]

but the lack of self awareness here. You remember the show I did or the shows we did when Dan and

[Charles Robinson]

those guys had Michelle to foyer on and, And I pointed out, like, hey,

[Jason Whitlock]

what are they doing to Michelle to Foy? She's on to have a conversation about

[Charles Robinson]

her new career, her transition off of Sunday Night Football.

[Jason Whitlock]

And these guys are the Mike Ryan

[Charles Robinson]

guy who now, you know, he went all those years pretending to be Puerto Rican or Mexican or whatever, and then Tran or, I'm sorry, pretending to be a white guy. And then when 2020 happened, then it all of a sudden, hey, I'm Mike Ruiz. I'm not Mike Ryan or whatever he

[Jason Whitlock]

did, he transitioned into a person of color because it was convenient and there was an advantage to it. That guy sitting on air trashing Michelle to foyer while Dan LeBatard allowed it to happen. And it was all over politics. And we're wondering why Caitlin Clark is getting treated the way she's getting treated. Message, no. The millionaires on the floor, they're the victims now, now. Not the teenagers crying in the concourse. The WNBA is inexplicably political organization. People like Levitar and his show made the WNBA or helped them be an explicitly political organization. Now, Elle Duncan, she's over at Netflix now. She's jumped in. She's demanding that Caitlin Clark denounce her fans for what other adults did and for what the usa. What USA Today wrote.

[Charles Robinson]

Take a listen.

[Elle Duncan]

People who think they are her fans but are using her. And if she would say, stop that. I don't want it. I'm tired of it. As opposed to what we've seen, which is the media makes up these narratives. The media makes up this discourse. That's not true. The media highlights the stories and they show it. But at the same time, like, the media did not make up that members of Congress are trying to get literal government intervention into whether you get fouled too hard. Like, yeah, right, stuff has to stop.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

It's.

[Charles Robinson]

I. I can only take so much. El Duncan. She's nice little attractive eye candy that's been put way out over her skis.

[Jason Whitlock]

She's an idiot. Caitlyn Clark has already on tape more than once, but never Enough on tape. She's already done the things El Duncan is demanding she do because the denunciation has never been the point, never the sickest card in this deck. A mainstream outlet, USA Today, brought Emmett Till into any in any. All of this about Caitlin Clark, a 14 year old boy who was murdered in lynch and turning his murder into a club to racialize a fan base full of moms and daughters in fever jerseys. And now I got Elle Duncan and Dan Levitar preaching to me about what they did, what they participated in. Here's what the cameras won't show you. Sitting courtside, almost shoulder to shoulder with those two teenage girls. There's this older woman with her own pre printed sign, no hate in these United States. A counter protester. Planted. And yes, I'm using the word planted in the same frame. Rebuttal already made ready for the shot. Two kids thank an athlete and there's a grown activist positioned right next to them with the comeback in hand. Spontaneous fan moments don't come staged like that.

[Charles Robinson]

And I'm let me question everything.

[Jason Whitlock]

This is like this whole thing seems staged, including the two cute little teenage girls juxtaposed against this tatted up, angry, unattractive older woman. This is like a movie script. All of this stuff feels scripted. The media will run with the owner's apology all day. They will not show you that sign. They will not show you all the casting that was done here. The owner got punished. A five game suspension. She can't come back to the arena

[Charles Robinson]

or game for five games.

[Jason Whitlock]

There's some sort of fine, but the coverage still pivoted to why won't the golden goose. Why won't Caitlin Clark apologize for this? Somebody assigned these roles before the ball went up. The owner plays the heel, the media plays the prosecutor. And Caitlin Clark is cast as the defendant in a trial where the verdict was tight before she woke up. Let's flip the scenario. A conservative owner walks up to two teenage girls holding a pride sign and screams that Jesus needs to forgive and their sin. That owner isn't suspended five games.

[Charles Robinson]

That owner is gone by Wednesday morning

[Jason Whitlock]

and it's a week of primetime specials. Same act, opposite politics. You already know the sentence would be different. So why are they running a psychological

[Charles Robinson]

operation on their own Biggest star? One word.

[Jason Whitlock]

The word from Proverbs. Envy. And money doesn't lie.

[Charles Robinson]

So let's talk money as well.

[Jason Whitlock]

Caitlin Clark is the most popular player

[Charles Robinson]

in the history of this league.

[Jason Whitlock]

It's not close, but watch what's happening underneath her. What floodgates has she Opened. Who is she invited into the arena? Sophie Cunningham. A backup, a role player. She dropped a shoe line and it sold out instantly. A reserve guard outselling All Stars. Because Sophie's fearless. She's got the classic All American good looks and she says the quiet parts out loud. She's becoming the second biggest star in this league off the bench. Think about what that does to a league office. Built on specific ideology and a specific hierarchy. Two women, Clark and Cunningham, moving the merchandise and filling the buildings. Nearly 20,000 in that arena Tuesday for the WNBA. That's Clark's economy. That's Cunningham's economy. Now the part that terrifies them.

[Charles Robinson]

The basketball really terrifies them.

[Jason Whitlock]

The Indiana Fever are the highest scoring

[Charles Robinson]

team in the WNBA.

[Jason Whitlock]

100 plus points in four straight games. Caitlin Clark dropped 32 in that Storm win. Kelsey Mitchell erupted for 18 in the fourth quarter and 28 for the game. Clark and Mitchell are the new Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. They're sugar and spice. They make the Fever very nice. A threat to win it all. And a Fever championship doesn't just hang a banner. It validates Caitlin Clark's greatness permanently. It ends the argument the establishment has spent two years trying to muddy. Envy. Can't allow that. Can't stop her on the floor. So stop her often. Surround her with chaos. Make every arena a hostile deposition. Keep her name welded to controversies she never started. Until the joy of the game curdles

[Charles Robinson]

into a job she dreads.

[Jason Whitlock]

That's not a fan problem. That's a strategy. It's a strategy to put Caitlin Clark at odds with her teammates, particularly Kelsey Mitchell. Clark is white and Mitchell is black. Clark's critics want to drive a wedge between the two of them. So far, Kelsey Mitchell won't let it happen. She's too smart, too mature, too filled with grace. But for how long? Let me take you guys back.

[Charles Robinson]

Let me make an analogy and bring this whole thing home.

[Jason Whitlock]

Let's go to October 1974. And let's go to Zaire. The Rumble in the Jungle. Muhammad Ali against George Foreman. Understand who Foreman was? A monster. Undefeated. He didn't beat men. He destroyed them. Took Joe Frazier, the man who beat Ali, and put him on the canvas six times in two rounds. Nobody gave Ali a prayer against Foreman. On paper, Foreman was bigger, younger and

[Charles Robinson]

hit harder than than anyone alive.

[Jason Whitlock]

So Ali didn't fight him. On paper. Ali fought him between the ears. Before the bell, Ali had the whole country chanting, ali boomaye. Ali boomaye.

[Charles Robinson]

Translate Ali.

[Jason Whitlock]

Kill him. Everywhere Foreman walked the drums the crowd, the whole continent against him. Ali sold him on the idea that something bigger than a fighter was in that jungle. That, God, that fate had already picked a side. And it wasn't George Foreman. Then Ali does the craziest thing you

[Charles Robinson]

can do against a monster. He laid on the ropes and let

[Jason Whitlock]

Foreman hit him round after round. The rope a dope. Foreman throws bombs, empties the tank. And Ali leans back, covers up and

[Charles Robinson]

whispers in his ear, that all you got, George?

[Jason Whitlock]

They told me you could punch. And Foreman punches himself out into a man who isn't going anywhere. Eighth round. Foreman's got nothing left. Arms are like anchors. Ali steps off the ropes and beats the brakes off that exhausted monster beating to the floor. Greatest upset in the history of the sport. One informan's mind before his hands ever threw a punch. Hear me, Caitlin Clark, that is the exact fight being run on you. They can't out punch you, so they're doing what Ali did, convincing you. The whole jungle is against you. The crowd, the owners, the analysts, the drums. They want you flailing at referees. They want you emptying your emotional tank into every insult in the building. Swinging at ghosts until there's nothing left in the eighth round. That's a rope.

[Charles Robinson]

A dope.

[Jason Whitlock]

And a rope. A dope only works on one man in the ring. The dope. So a question for you, Caitlyn. Are you the dope? Because right now, Caitlyn, you're fighting Foreman's fight, playing the victim. And the victim is the dope. Clark has a habit. She whines. She works the officials in the Storm game, every foul called against her, she wanted a replay review. Review it like the refs owe her a challenge flag on a reach in her own head. Coach Stephanie White ignored her smartly. Didn't run to the scorers table, didn't fight the fight Clark wanted and Caitlyn's cult demands. Because White has been around this game and she's actually smarter than most of

[Charles Robinson]

us give her credit for.

[Jason Whitlock]

She knows a player who can't control her emotions in the first quarter is the player the other team controls. She wasn't disrespecting Clark, she was pulling her off the ropes. And the smartest thing that the Indiana Fever franchise did all night was after the game, Clark and Cunningham were not made available. The leading score, the two biggest names. And they sent out Kelsey Mitchell and Monique Billings instead. On purpose. Because the Fever know exactly what Seattle media does. The second Clark and Cunningham sit in front of those microphones, they lob the transition Transgender question bake the controversy. Harvest the clip. So they pulled their two stars out of the ambush and refused to hand the director his final scene. The organization figured out it's a setup. The star hasn't yet. So this one's for Caitlyn, not espn. Not the Storm. They're running a mind game on you. And right now, I'm not sure you survive it because you like being the victim. Most women do. It's comfortable. It feels righteous. But the victim's chair is the one seat in that arena the director reserved for you. Every time you berate a ref, every time you let a crowd into your chest, every time you look wounded instead of dangerous, you're on the ropes, punching yourself out, being the dope. Mark 15 verse, 10 tells of Pilates. He knew that the chief priest had delivered him for envy. He saw the movie. The mob was manufactured, the trial was rigged, and the innocent one said nothing. Didn't take the bait, didn't plead to the crowd, kept his eyes on the assignment. You can't control the envy, Caitlin Clark. You can't control the owners, the analysts, the actors they send. You control one thing that ends all of it yourself. If you control Caitlin Clark, the fever win it all, and your critics lose it all. Step off the ropes. Stop asking the referees for justice, and go take it on the scoreboard. Hang the banner. Make yourself undeniable. Because a championship is the only verdict they can't overturn. Don't be the dope. Be the champion.

[Charles Robinson]

All right, that's my fire starter for today. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. Obviously, Maurice and Charles are here. My two WNBA experts.

[Jason Whitlock]

Steve Kim is with us as well. Maurice, I'm gonna start with you because

[Charles Robinson]

you were the MVP the last time we had you on, and I want to.

[Jason Whitlock]

Do you agree with me that they're trying to bait Caitlin Clark into being someone that's beatable? Because if they don't beat her in the head, they can't beat her on the court.

[Maurice]

Yeah, I think. I think you're spot on, Caitlin Clark. And like you said, Caitlin Clark and Indiana Fever have been playing really well. And I think at this point, they are trying to do anything they can to throw her off of her square, to get her to focus elsewhere, focus on the referees, focus on this, focus on that Caitlyn Clark. I'm just put. Put it out there. She doesn't need to speak out for anyone else anymore. She has spoken up for black, the black women of the league during her rookie year. She just did it again. She has spoken up. She's done everything she can for everyone. She doesn't need to speak out for any of these communities. Just play basketball, be a great teammate and enjoy playing the game and play with that joy again. She doesn't need to speak out for these people. L. Duncan, you've lost your mind. Monica McNut case, you've lost your mind. All of you have lost your mind. Stop begging. I mean, Whitlock, what is it going to be next? Is it going to be a group of vegans demanding that Caitlin Clark comes out and explain why people need to stop eating meat? What is going on? Stop begging her. Stop bothering her. She just wants to play basketball and that's all she needs to do. She has to focus and not allow all of the foolishness surrounding this league due to the lack of leadership up top with Kathy Engelbert. She can't let it get to her. Just focus on basketball and none of this other nonsense.

[Jason Whitlock]

Do you think she'll be able to do that?

[Maurice]

Well, Caitlin Clark is a bit of a firecracker. So, you know, I think, you know, some of her tiffs with the refs have to be under. Get under control. I mean, she's already on the verge of suspension. So, you know, maybe. Maybe her being on the verge of suspension is a good thing. Maybe that'll just get her to stop for now. But I think she has the ability. I mean, we're talking about a female basketball player who gets a level of attention and scrutiny that no woman has ever gotten because people, quite frankly, did not care. I mean, that's just the honest truth. No one cared. So, no, no. No other female has faced this level of pressure in women's basketball. But if there's anybody who's up to handle it, I think it's Caitlin Clark. She's shown that she's one of. I mean, forget one of the probably only mature player here. I mean, with everyone else getting drunk and. And drugged up All Star Weekend, it seems like there was only one person who was able to show up to things on time and be a professional face for the league. So I think she could handle it.

[Charles Robinson]

Charles, I know that I'm a bit

[Jason Whitlock]

of a conspiracy theorist,

[Charles Robinson]

but I am what I am. Do you think I'm crazy for suggesting, like this noise and chaos around Caitlin Clark is intentional and part of a strategy?

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Well, to be honest, which I got mad listening to your monologue because I was under the silly impression that I was going to be the one to break it, that those signs Were plants on both sides. I was wondering why nobody else saw that. Yeah, these two 16 year old girls are 15, you know, let's. Let's go do this. No, as far as Caitlyn Clark goes, I, I've said this from the beginning. She just wants to hoop, all right? I don't think anybody's putting any pressure on her on the court. I mean, k. Caitlin Clark for all the great things that she does. For some strange reason, she acts out on the court, all right? That's what, that's where all the act off the court. You've never heard a peep from her. I mean, this is not about anybody trying to control her as a basketball player. This is about two different political ideologies trying to claim her. And there's a certain lifestyle that's saying, hey, you need to check, you need to stand up for us. This is what all this about. Nobody really cares what Caitlin Clark feel personally, all right? Unless she feels the same way they do. Now, if she was to come out and say, okay, y' all want it? Here it is, and she told you what she really thought, well, that wouldn't work either because not half the people in the country are gonna really hate her. It may flip overnight, if you want to know the truth about it. She needs to just keep playing basketball. And I don't want to say she need to shut up and dribble because I don't believe that if she wants to speak up for something that's on her. But let it, let it happen with your basketball. And, and I got to commend the Indiana Fever for what they did in the post game. The players you called in after, after the game for to go meet, meet with the media. There was no reason for them to call Sophie Cunningham in there unless they wanted to talk about this transgender stuff. And so they said, no, not only you're not going to get Sophie, we're not going to give you Caitlin. We're not going to do that. Good job on their part.

[Charles Robinson]

Very Charles, you seem to be indicating. I'll go back or I'll go to this question. I'm arguing that envy is driving this more so even than ideology. But you seem to be arguing the opposite, that it's these competing worldviews, the Alphabet mafia, as I like to call

[Jason Whitlock]

them, and trying to get Caitlin on

[Charles Robinson]

board with the, with their ideology that that is driving things even more than

[Jason Whitlock]

just their natural envy amongst each other.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Well, all you got to do is, you know, kind of, kind of follow some of the threads online and it's like, there's no way this person really believed what they just tweeted out there. It's a chance to spite the other side. Everything is just a calculated response to the other side. Oh, I bet I can get a jump. Hey, got put up a poll last night. And. And he won't. And he said, you know, Caitlin Clark should be the WNB MVP right now, knowing. Knowing that all hell was going to break loose on that. And I'm sitting there thinking, okay, he. He got what he was looking for, because, I mean, there's as good as she is. I mean, you can't make a rational decision that she should be the MVP of the league at this point. All right? And anybody who knows basketball knows that. But you'd be surprised at the comments that people were putting out back and forth. And here's what I want to get to. When I'm talking about the wnba, when I'm talking about Caitlin Clark, I don't have to say anything bad about any other player in that league to talk about how good she is. I don't have to do it. If somebody else plays good, I don't want somebody telling me. But, yeah, the other night, Caitlin Clark did this. No, you don't. Everything doesn't have to be either or. And sometimes two things can be true.

[Charles Robinson]

Great response, Steve. I really wanted to include you in this conversation because I knew I was going to make the Muhammad Ali analogy and the rope a dope strategy and

[Jason Whitlock]

that they're trying to beat Caitlin Clark

[Charles Robinson]

between the ears because they can't beat him.

[Jason Whitlock]

They can't beat her on the court

[Charles Robinson]

with the actual play. What did you think of my Muhammad Ali analogy?

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

Not bad. You know what? Finally, what really caught my eye. It's about time you called out Lebatard. Honestly, you've been. I get it. You've been his friend. You treat him with kid gloves, and I get it. We've all been there. But Leverton's thing is, like, that's like an arsonist saying, wow, we're up in flames. How did we get here? Like, really, like, you weren't the whole match in the kerosene to this thing. I. I find a lot of this discourse to be completely dishonest. And are they trying to draw Caitlyn in? They probably are. The Al Duncan clip I thought was on brand for her. She's what Caitlin Clark and her supporters of all colors remind me of. In the position that they are in, when certain people move out of neighborhoods, they're ripped for white Flight, move in and improve the neighborhood. All these gentrifiers, these colonizers, they can't win. They cannot win. So all of you guys, whether it's you, Maurice, coach, none of you guys and Caitlin Clark cannot win. They are perpetually in. Or you guys and Caitlyn are in a perpetual no win situation. That is just the reality. I was watching SportsCenter real quick. Indiana seems to be playing well now. And I was watching the highlights. I was like, wow, this is almost entertaining. But they're playing well, scoring a lot of points by WNBA standards. It's good basketball and now it's being completely overshadowed. And coach, I kind of disagree with you. I think those two girls, I don't think they planted those signs. I think they really said, hey, Sophie, thank you.

[Dan Le Batard]

We believe.

[Charles Robinson]

No, no, I do. Let me just say. Let me. And I don't say this with any negativity, Steve.

[Jason Whitlock]

Those shirts that they were wearing, that's

[Charles Robinson]

a. Jennifer say, she's been on this show. She's been promoting the XXXY T shirts, the whole movement.

[Jason Whitlock]

And, and those, those girls sitting courtside in those shorts, in those shirts.

[Charles Robinson]

That's great marketing that they, they're.

[Jason Whitlock]

Both sides want this conversation.

[Charles Robinson]

They're at war with each other. And the people from Riley Greens to Jennifer say, and everybody that's talking about it today and yesterday, this is orchestrated. And I'm not.

[Jason Whitlock]

And look it, I'm not trying to

[Charles Robinson]

beat up real particularly their side. Uh, I'm not trying to beat up their side.

[Jason Whitlock]

But. But those two little cute teenage girls juxtaposed against. And I actually think the same people may have paid for that ugly overweight

[Charles Robinson]

woman to sit there and hold the other side. I'm just. I really do.

[Jason Whitlock]

It's an incredible contract. Do we have to put that picture back up? You can't, you cannot convince me.

[Charles Robinson]

No, no. The ones. I think we had one up earlier where you could see the two girls and you could see her sitting a little bit for, I mean, a seat or two away. We played it early. It's clear as day. It's not a close up on a

[Jason Whitlock]

woman, but for them to be sitting

[Charles Robinson]

that close to each other where they

[Jason Whitlock]

can be captured in the same frame. I think Marie.

[Charles Robinson]

Marie. Sal, these groups are planted and probably

[Jason Whitlock]

by the same group.

[Maurice]

Yeah, I definitely think they were placed there. I actually saw. So the, the lady that the two teenagers was with is a lady Brandy Cruz.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

She.

[Maurice]

Yeah, so I saw her entire story. So, yeah, I definitely believe that they were. They were put there strategically. But you know, to Steve Kim, you bring up a good point about the Caitlin Clark fan and Charles, whoever that account was on Twitter that said Caitlin Clark's mvp, send me their account. I need to give them a follow. Very knowledgeable account there on X. Now think about this, Steve Kim, think about this. You had a co owner make some teenage girls cry. You had a Caitlin Clark fan assaulted, spit in the face after all of the things that went bad in the Seattle Storms arena. Caitlin Clark is the one that needs to come out and talk about this stuff. Wait a minute. If we were in Indiana and a fan of an opposing team was approached and was spit in the face, do you know the stories that will be being run right now? I mean, I mean, come on guys. Why does Caitlin Clark have to come out and talk about? Shouldn't the owner. A five game suspension isn't anything. Shouldn't the owner have to come out and address this assault that took place in her arena? I mean, why are we asking for Caitlin Clark to speak even more? I mean, Steve, can you make it make sense for me? I don't understand.

[Jason Whitlock]

She.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

Look, here's the problem with Elle Duncan. Her subtext is everything. Eventually blame whitey. It is. We have to be clear about it. That's going to be her go to position. That's her fallback all the time. Caitlin Clark in her view is symbolic of white privilege or whatever it is or place in society. So she's never going to be able to win. But I find it interesting that you're right. This whole debate or this discussion, no matter what we think about it, centers around comments made by Sophie Cunningham. Just think about that. I mean this is between A and B. Caitlin needs to see herself out of it. And I, I, I feel bad for her. I know I've been critical of her in my view not being tough enough at certain times. But this is completely unfair. How she had nothing to do with these comments, yet she has to be the spokesperson for a certain side that she doesn't even realize if she's on or not.

[Charles Robinson]

Go ahead, Charles.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

In, in fairness to the media, there's no way the Indiana Fever go on the road and play the Seattle Storm. And Caitlyn drops, Caitlyn Clark drops 32 points. And the media doesn't ask for Caitlyn Clark in the press room. So the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the clear, the clear clue was we want Sophie Cunningham too. That's when you knew it wasn't, you know, it wasn't about just basketball, but it would have Been irresponsible for them not to ask Caitlin Clark to come in, that she could have gone in and she could have said no comments on. Except for anything but basketball. But, you know, when you drop 32 on the road. Yeah, they, the media is probably going to want to talk to you.

[Charles Robinson]

Yeah, they would have made the request

[Jason Whitlock]

and would have asked the question and, and Caitlin would have backed away from it. And that would have been a controversy, everything. Also, she wouldn't answer the question. She wouldn't defend or she wouldn't call out Sophie Cunningham.

[Charles Robinson]

She wouldn't, she wouldn't do this, she wouldn't do that. Everything is a rig job for her. And there is a consistent. And Steve, I'm going to talk to Maurice and Charles here because this is more specific to the whole basketball element.

[Jason Whitlock]

She needs to win a championship. And the best way to stop the Indiana fever.

[Charles Robinson]

And I know they've been playing bad competition and putting up big numbers against

[Jason Whitlock]

some of the weaker teams, but this

[Charles Robinson]

Sunday they're going to play the Minnesota Links. That's going to be a big deal.

[Jason Whitlock]

I believe that game's in Minnesota, which is.

[Charles Robinson]

Am I right about that? Is that game in Minnesota? Yes, and that's.

[Jason Whitlock]

That'll be hardcore.

[Charles Robinson]

That'll be a hardcore Alphabet crowd inside that arena. And so they'll want.

[Jason Whitlock]

There could be some more staging going

[Charles Robinson]

on because I want to show you. This is the image we played earlier in a video. Put that back up. This is what, this is how close these two were sitting next to each other.

[Jason Whitlock]

Look at that.

[Stephanie White]

Oh, yeah.

[Maurice]

That's no coincidence.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Yeah. Come on, Steve. Yeah, that's. That's the plan.

[Jason Whitlock]

Look, look at the contrast.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

I'll resend my comment.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah. Innocent. Yeah. And, and, and, and here's what's crazy. This is how I know this whole thing's rigged.

[Charles Robinson]

No one's talking about the other woman at, at all.

[Jason Whitlock]

It's like she's irrelevant, doesn't exist. But this is the pictures and the

[Charles Robinson]

images was sent out.

[Jason Whitlock]

And what the media, the left wing

[Charles Robinson]

media has figured out is like, oh, this is staged.

[Jason Whitlock]

So we're not going to show the other part of the staging.

[Charles Robinson]

We're not.

[Jason Whitlock]

Because, because this is brilliant marketing by whoever's behind this, Jennifer, say the XX X Y T shirt people.

[Charles Robinson]

This is all part of a bigger movement of trying to draw the contrast

[Jason Whitlock]

of two young teenage girls that look

[Charles Robinson]

like, oh, man, I wish my daughter. I wish that was my daughter. As opposed to the other person that, you know, I hope she doesn't move into My neighborhood or. I don't know, it's very obvious this is staged. But. But Maurice, I'll start with you here because, and I say this with affinity, not trying to put you on the defensive, but you know, you're someone. And a lot of content creators are

[Jason Whitlock]

people that aren't big fans of Kelsey Mitchell.

[Charles Robinson]

And you tend to more celebrate Caitlin Clark. And this is where I've been saying, hey, guys, y' all need to be careful.

[Jason Whitlock]

Man, this back court is incredible.

[Charles Robinson]

This is the best backcourt the WNBA has ever seen. It's the best backcourt combination basketball has seen since Steph and Clay were in their peak.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

And.

[Jason Whitlock]

And y' all are so passionate about Caitlin Clark, you're not really giving Kelsey Mitchell her full credit that this combination is what can win a championship for the Indiana Fever.

[Charles Robinson]

And I think you're falling a bit

[Jason Whitlock]

into the taking the bait of they want conflict between Caitlin and Kelsey.

[Charles Robinson]

And so far the only reason why

[Jason Whitlock]

there isn't, in my view, is because Kelsey is so mature and so smart, she won't take the bait.

[Charles Robinson]

But.

[Jason Whitlock]

But what I think they're really trying

[Charles Robinson]

to get at is create tension between Caitlin and Kelsey.

[Maurice]

Oh, Jason, I'm back. Oh, I'm back. I'm back on the Kelsey Mitchell train.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Listen, listen.

[Maurice]

The backcourt is unstoppable. Here was my thing. This was my thing. I felt like up until, you know, these last maybe handful of games, even while Caitlin Clark was on restrict minutes restriction prior to all star break, I hadn't really seen them play well together in the same games. Kelsey Mitchell have a big night. Caitlin doesn't play so well. Caitlin have a big night. Kelsey Mitchell might be. Have. Have a slow game these last handful of games. Obviously the talent is there on both parts, but the last handful of games I've. I've saw the chemistry that I have not seen since the post Olympic break during Caitlin Clark's rookie season. And that's why I got on Stephanie White. I felt like she played a large part into it. The chemistry. We. We never had the conversation on if they can play together during the post Olympic break during the rookie season. Jason, we never had that conversation. It was the most spectacular show in women's basketball. And for a while it just seemed like Kelsey Mitchell got used to playing without Caitlin Clark, which isn't Kelsey Mitchell's fault that Caitlin Clark wasn't healthy. And the team structure seemed like it shifted some. And all I was. Our thing was, hey, we saw how this offense looked with Kelsey and Caitlin before you got here. We don't need you coming here messing it up. I see Kelsey Mitchell getting four or five baskets a game off. Backdoor layups that she don't even have to work hard or dribble for. Again, I feel like the chemistry is back.

[Jason Whitlock]

Hold for one second. And I do think that small little

[Charles Robinson]

slight that you do that you don't even know you're doing that too, that

[Jason Whitlock]

you don't know you're crediting Caitlin Clark with Kelsey Mitchell's constant moving movement and knowing when to do the back door cut again. You just credited that to Caitlin Clark

[Charles Robinson]

rather than Kelsey Mitchell.

[Maurice]

No, I'm crediting Kelsey, too, because she's smart enough to know in order for Caitlyn to be effective, she has to have the ball. And that's just the truth. Kelsey's knows I can. If I can get 10 points a game that I don't even have to

[Jason Whitlock]

work for, I still can go 20 on my own. No, I'm working for it, Maurice. She's working, moving without the basketball.

[Charles Robinson]

Go ahead, Charles.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

All right, all right. First of all, Maurice, I'm shocked because two games ago, your big post was about the Indiana Fever and Stephanie White iced out Caitlin Clark. That was two games ago.

[Maurice]

Stephanie White.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Let me explain these backdoor cuts to everybody, all right? She's getting them off dhos and ball screens. So when you get a pin down

[Charles Robinson]

or dho, the rule is DHO is what, Charles? Talk.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Dribble, handoff.

[Charles Robinson]

Dribble handoff. There we go.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

It's the same as a ball screen. So when you get that, when that's happening, the defense's responsibility is to get into your man and make them go over the top. All right? She's so fast with her movement, a lot of times they'll try to beat her over the top. And the rule is, if the defense get above you, it's an automatic cut back door. It's got nothing to do with Caitlin Clark having the ball to pass it to you. It's an automatic read that everybody in every league does. College, pro, whatever.

[Maurice]

See Jason? See Jason. You see Jason?

[Jason Whitlock]

That's what it is, Maurice.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

That's not a debate, Jason.

[Maurice]

God wasted. God. God wasted. No time to see if I would get defensive. And I'm not going to be defensive. I am on the K, the Kelsey Mitchell side, okay? I don't want to get defensive and have to tell you how Caitlyn Clark is the best thing since pants with pockets. I'm just going to let you have it. It's okay. I'm Team Kelsey.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna tell you why you team Kelsey today. Because for the last three or four games, it seems like Kaitlin has been playing good. And you saying, okay, as long as Kayn can play good too. Because when it was Kelsey playing good and. And Kayn was struggling. They need to get rid of Kelsey Mitchell. They need to get rid of him. They can't play together. I heard that all summer long, and I kept telling everybody, what do you mean? Two of the most talented guards in the league, Both averaging over 20 points a game, can't play together. They're not having a problem on offense. They never have.

[Charles Robinson]

And. And where I always thought. And Maurice, obviously, like the last show earlier this week, you saved us, and you're great. And there's no negativity coming from me or Charles, but. But I'm.

[Jason Whitlock]

What I have seen is people not

[Charles Robinson]

understand because this is where we've been in total agreement.

[Jason Whitlock]

It's like, hey, does Stephanie White know what she has? The Stephanie White understand how well Caitlin and Kelsey could work together? Because we saw it under Christie sides

[Charles Robinson]

in the second half of.

[Jason Whitlock]

Of Caitlin's rookie season. And it's like, Stephanie, wake up here.

[Charles Robinson]

That, and people like me believe Caitlin

[Jason Whitlock]

is the best player on the team, but Kelsey Mitchell is really, really close. And if you want Caitlin Clark to be an mvp, you better not take

[Charles Robinson]

Kelsey Mitchell away from her if you

[Jason Whitlock]

really want her to be the best, because they work so well together if used properly. And for the first time in this Seattle game, I was like, okay, they let Caitlin play the entire first quarter, and they subbed out Kelsey Mitchell before they subbed out Caitlin Clark.

[Charles Robinson]

And I was like, oh, okay.

[Jason Whitlock]

Stephanie might have figured out who her best player is.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

And.

[Jason Whitlock]

And with no slight to Kelsey, because I can tell. I've said it during Caitlin's rookie season, I said.

[Charles Robinson]

I was like, hey, man, y' all need to slow down.

[Jason Whitlock]

Kelsey Mitchell might be the MVP of

[Charles Robinson]

that 2024 season of the Indiana Fever.

[Jason Whitlock]

And if you look at that second

[Charles Robinson]

half is like, I think she was

[Jason Whitlock]

slightly better than Caitlin Clark, which took no shine off of Caitlin Clark.

[Charles Robinson]

And I think sometimes the complaint Charles and others of us have is like,

[Jason Whitlock]

hey, man, y' all trying to take the shine off of Kelsey, thinking that's making Caitlin brighter, and it's just not true.

[Maurice]

I think the.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

The.

[Maurice]

The best thing, obviously last game, they both.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

You.

[Maurice]

You saw the offensive talent with them being able to put the ball in the basket. I think the most telling thing in that game was. Caitlin Clark goes off in the third quarter. She's the only one to make a basket. Caitlin starts the fourth quarter on the bench, and Kelsey Mitchell, who had.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Who.

[Maurice]

She just wasn't playing well for the first three quarters. I mean, she hit a switch, and when she saw one shot go in, it's like. It was like throwing a rock in the ocean. Caitlin reenters the game after scoring 16 in the third. In every play down, she made sure she got the ball to Kelsey Mitchell. Every single play. That shows the chemistry and the unselfishness between them two. When one of them see the other going, they continue to feed them, and I think that is going to be big going forward. I think the chemistry between Caitlin and Kelsey is officially back. WNBA is in trouble. Yeah. Look, if Caitlin Clark. You think us Caitlin Clark fans are insufferable right now. If the Indiana Fever win a title, you may as well delete the YouTube app off your phone. Get rid of every social. We will be insufferable.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

What if they win the title and Caitlyn's not the mvp? Can you live with that?

[Maurice]

That's okay. That. That's okay.

[Jason Whitlock]

That's okay. That's okay.

[Maurice]

Caitlin Clark. Look, all the player of the years, they act like didn't matter because the University of Iowa didn't win a national title.

[Jason Whitlock]

So.

[Maurice]

It's okay. It's okay.

[Charles Robinson]

We got enough.

[Maurice]

We got. I mean, she has, what, 89 or some WNBA records. We can get a WNBA Finals MVP later on. Let's just get this ring out the way. I don't care if Kelsey mvp. Let's do it.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Well, I'm. I'm gonna tell you why I'm not going to give those two credit for being. Being able to coexist together because there's never been a point when they couldn't coexist together. I. I never understood where that narrative came from. Tell you what, the best play in basketball right now, NBA or wnba, is a Caitlin Clark and Kelsey Mitchell pick and roll with one another. And. And I know people are going to say, well, what are you talking about? They've never ran a pick and roll with one another. Yeah. If you know what you're watching, they do it all the time. No, no, no, no. Imagine Aaliyah Boston. Anybody else setting a pick? Monique? Either one setting the pick and roll. And you got Kelsey Mitchell over in the opposite corner. Well, here's what's supposed to happen. Pick and roll. She comes off the screen, but Big is gonna hedge. Well, somebody gotta tag the Road man. All right, Whoever's coming in the corner, their man's gotta tag the road man. I'm watching people play, and they're literally saying, we're going to give up that pick and roll because if we send over there to tag, she's just going to skip it over here to Kelsey Mitchell. And now we got to guard her on a closeout where nobody else can go in the league can just guard her straight up. Now we got to guard her on the closeout. It's an impossible task. So people are literally telling their big and they're going, y' all gotta go out this ball screen by yourself because we can't send a tag man over. Whenever you see Kelsey Mitchie on the opposite side and they running the pick and roll, it's just. It's unbelievable what they get out of it. I mean, Caitlin Clark is just throwing easy passes, these wide open layups to Billings and Boston and whoever. And the reason that's happening is because teams are literally, and I've never seen this, they're literally saying, we can't go tag because if we do, it's 100% impossible to get back out here and guard this woman.

[Charles Robinson]

Charles, we're going to get you a whiteboard, Seriously, and we're going to whiteboard some of this stuff moving forward. Steve, I'm going to bring you back into the conversation.

[Jason Whitlock]

I need you to stick here on

[Charles Robinson]

what I'm going to throw you, and if it doesn't play to your strength, we'll bring Charles and Maurice into it.

[Jason Whitlock]

But does Sophie Cunningham's elevation as a

[Charles Robinson]

budding star in the WNBA and starting to surpass the other players, Asia Wilson, others, you know, her shoe sell, selling out.

[Jason Whitlock]

Do you think that helps Caitlin Clark and provides cover, or does it just increase the animus and jealousy of Caitlin Clark that now there's a second white

[Charles Robinson]

girl and a white girl that they

[Jason Whitlock]

believe is undeserving

[Charles Robinson]

rocketing up the starship of the wnba?

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

I think a bit of both, because I think the argument will be that, oh, my God, I think they're gonna begrudgingly say, well, at least Caitlyn's really, really good. Right? So now that. That. Now that's just purely about ability, that has turned into marketability. Now with Sophie, who's a good player, right, but not quite at the level they're gonna say right there, it's the great white hope. It's a great white hope. I mean, I saw the reaction to her bikini photos, which I know you perused. You can admit It. And, and I just look at all the negative comments, they came from a certain group and I get it. Ass is a little flat. Maybe not your cup of tea. But just, just that animus that I saw, I was like, oh, it's starting. Because for Sophie Cunningham, this rise in popularity and notoriety, it is a blessing and a curse in a sense that from an economic standpoint she will be able to really monetize this and ride this out. So she'll be able to say her NW NBA experience was unbelievable. Right. Problem is for 99 of the other players, this is just a job that probably a lot of them do not like and they find a lot of negative experiences. They're gonna side eye her to a point like that is everything that is wrong in America right there, Charles.

[Charles Robinson]

Or you think her Sophie Cunningham elevating helps Caitlyn? Or hurts?

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

I mean if I'm Sophie Cunningham, I don't care truth about it. But hey, first of all, before we run out of time here, I gotta, I gotta give a shout out to my man Steve here and we should make him an award for this because officially he had the shortest boycott in the history of boycotts.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

What do you mean? What are you talking about?

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Yesterday I saw you online yesterday you was boycotting in wnba. You didn't want to watch him, you didn't want to talk about him. You was done with them forever. And then.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

Wait a minute.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

And then you. Cunningham's booty on the, on the Internet.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

Well, first of all, that was a ubiquitous image. I couldn't get it off. I'm trying to do Cam Ward appreciation tweets, but here's the thing. I am like Daryl Johnston, the Moose. I am a fullback. I sacrifice for the good of the greater good. I don't want to call Jason Whitlock Emmett Smith. He's not that caliber. But my role on Fearless is to be the blocking fullback at service to our audience and the show. This is the selfless nature that I bring. I'm like Kurt Rambis if this was showtime. I'm Kurt Rambis. I do all the other dirty things no one wants to do. Coach there.

[Charles Robinson]

Maurice, does Sophie Cunningham's rise help or hurt Caitlin?

[Jason Whitlock]

Off court rise.

[Maurice]

You said on the court or off?

[Jason Whitlock]

Off off off court rise.

[Maurice]

Oh, off the court. I don't think anything can help Caitlin

[Charles Robinson]

Clark off the court.

[Maurice]

I mean, it really, it really doesn't matter. I mean, they're going to hate Caitlin Clark regardless. I mean, the girl comes in and makes you all millionaires, get you on private planes. And you still hate her. I don't really know what will change it, but I, I side with Charles. If I'm Sophie, I don't care how they feel about it. I'm, I'm a ring card girl WNBA player. I'm a sports broadcaster now. Sophie Cunningham is winning all around the board. I know the WNBA players are really upset about it, but maybe, you know, if there are any other cute blondes who have no problem being a role player, have no problem standing up for a superstar, take notes. And you might want to take a little less on the books to, to get next to Caitlin Clark and do the Sophie. Do the Sophie.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

I don't, I don't think, I don't think the hatred, and this is why I disagree with all you guys. I don't think the hatred is as rampant amongst the players as you guys think it is. I think a lot of it just is competition. I watched Atlanta and Dallas played last night, and everybody knows that Pace Beckers and Angela Reese has been good friends since high school, you know, and they're calling each other left and right.

[Charles Robinson]

And you.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

And it was just. And then after the game was over, you know, it was no big deal. And, and, and if you had been courtside and you caught some of that and you saw how they was reacting and take one of them out and place Caitlin Clark in. Oh, we would all see they hate her. This proves it. It happens all the time on the court. I've seen guys talk to each other so bad on the court that after the game I'm thinking, I gotta get between them. And I had a guy tell me one coach, that's my second cousin, man, we cool, man, we doing that. We cool. It ain't. I think it's more competition than hatred. I really do. I think all the hatred has been. I think that's media driven.

[Maurice]

Charles, did you hear last season, during the off season, Sidney Coulson, who was with the Las Vegas Aces, joined the Indiana Fever. And she got on camera stating how as soon as the news broke that she was joining the Indiana Fever, she got a bunch of messages from players, her friends around the league. She said, I got some nasty, mean messages because I was joining Caitlin Clark's team. Did you see that? You think that has something to do with, oh, competition and you should all better or whatever.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

She, she, she got three or four messages. I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you what somebody told him. Let me tell you what somebody told me one time about how he felt about people talking Bad about him. He said, I don't care about nobody talking bad about me. He said, I got proof that those people who used to talk bad about Jesus, man, I'm good with it. So, yeah, you talk about a handful of people here and there. The hatred is not what you think it is. You can't. You can't take the action of a few and try to put it in with a whole group. That's just not fair to them.

[Jason Whitlock]

And even the people sending those messages.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Hold on.

[Charles Robinson]

Even the people sending those text. There may not be nearly as much animus behind those text messages as what it appears be a good joke. It could be a little bit of jealousy driving it. I. I gotta hit pause here. I gotta pivot. Just only because there's a couple things I want to get into conversation with you guys before I let you go. And one of them. Cause we didn't do it yesterday because we ran out of time. And so, Steve, I'm gonna start with you.

[Jason Whitlock]

I want to revisit the Tony Romo

[Charles Robinson]

conversation and the DUI or whatever it is. I want to start there.

[Jason Whitlock]

Do you think this DUI and the

[Charles Robinson]

video, that's kind of embarrassing.

[Jason Whitlock]

Do you think this will cost Tony

[Charles Robinson]

Romo, perhaps after this season, his job at CBS working alongside Jim Nance in the NFL?

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

Maybe. How long is this contract? Because this is really his first defense, isn't it? Right.

[Jason Whitlock]

So the first defense. Hold on, hold on.

[Charles Robinson]

The first defense is all the criticism around Tony Dungy. There's a lot of guys. Or Tony Romo. There's a lot of guys that think he's not a good broadcaster.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

Okay? But that's not an offense.

[Charles Robinson]

That's.

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

That, That's. That's an opinion that's a little different. I actually, maybe I'm in the minority and I hear it from. I still enjoy Tony Romo. I think he's a friendly, personable voice. Okay. I actually think I learned something now. Is he leaning off of what made him good in the beginning? And maybe he doesn't put in the work in the background, pre production meetings of that sort? If that is all true, then, yes, he's on thin ice. There's no doubt your job security sometimes is as good as the job that you're doing. That is the reality. It's not necessarily fair, but that is life. So if he's actually lost favor with the CBS management, an offense like that could be fatal. Or it could be just looked upon as he makes a mistake. But I tell you what's bad, though, Jason, it Came out. Both his grandparents are dead. That right there, that, that right there should cost him his job. Lying about your grandparents death to get out of a DUI or whatever that was. That might be good enough, in my view, to get him out of here.

[Charles Robinson]

Let me ask black Skip Bayless here, who can't wait to jump in on this. Charles Be quick, but don't hurry. Tony Romo in trouble or no?

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Well, it depends on his contrition, his level of contrition. And also, I mean, seriously, are we gonna hold it against a man for what he said when he was drunk

[Charles Robinson]

behind the wheel of a car? CHARLES I think we can hold against him.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

No, I don't want to make light of the situation, but he was obviously drunk. You know, he was barely drunk, you know, 0.9 and it was 0.8. I mean, he could fight that in the court somehow, but I mean, I

[Charles Robinson]

once knew a girl that was barely pregnant.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

CHARLES well, here's, here's the, here's the bad part. If you talk about job security and everything, the bad part is the memes that everybody's coming up with, you know, does he become a caricature? And that's what he's got to look out for?

[Charles Robinson]

All right, Maurice. I don't only think I know about you in football, Maurice, is that you seem to be a prime sexual or he's on the Shador bandwagon. Who's your favorite football team and is Tony Romo in trouble? Maurice?

[Maurice]

Oh, I'm a lifelong Washington Redskin now, commander. We have the best quarterback in the world, Jaden Daniels, and we plan on destroying the Cowgirls twice this season. But I think Tony Romo's in big trouble. I think the optics play a big part. It looked really bad, and I and Tony Romo, you needed the Kyle Shanahan hookup. You needed somebody to not release this. You needed them to do the Kyle Shanahan and cover it up as long as possible. But the optics of this look really, really, really bad. And the Internet is unrelenting, and they are making you one of the biggest memes and all types of things in the world right now. And to Charles's point, I think the Internet's turning him more into a laughing stock online because of this. And I don't know if the network will be able to see past that.

[Charles Robinson]

Gentlemen, we're going to end on a lighter note here, and I'd say we got about three minutes. So that gives everybody about 60 seconds here or so. But I want to show you a Picture of Travis Kelsey and ask you, Steve, is this a sign of concern? Oh, we got the moving. There's a still shot picture of Travis Kelsey showing up to training camp with a real dad bod. It's got a little bit of a gut working. Should we be concerned that Travis not entering training camp in the best of shape? Has. Has Taylor Swift taken his legs?

[Jason Whitlock (continuation or side comments)]

Maybe, but I think that is apropos right there. His body is the state of the Kansas City dynasty. It's over. I remember last year. What did I say about 13 months ago? I said, the Chiefs are over. They're done. Everyone gasped, including you, for a couple weeks as they eked out a few games. People were making. Oh, it's funny. Those people disappear like they flew over the Bermuda Triangle. I, I think we're being a little hard on Kelsey. He's had a Hall of Fame career. He's deep into it. It's over. And if he is still the focal point of this year's offense, that team has no shot. So again, I give Kelsey a little bit of a break here. We've all been in that state.

[Charles Robinson]

Charles, your thoughts?

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

You know, here's what's going to happen. The Kansas City Chiefs, we're going to have to hear all year long about how they righted the ship and what a great turnaround they had, when in reality last year they probably played one of the most brutal schedules I've seen in the past 25 years. It was my. If that was a good team. Kansas City played him and they all went down to the last score and then Mahomes get hurt at the end. Kansas City is not far off as you think. And as far as Travis Kelsey goes, and I don't mean it's in a bad way, but he was never built like Tony Gonzalez to begin with. So I don't see the big deal here.

[Maurice]

Maurice, I think the Chiefs will be just fine. They got number 15 back there, who I still believe is the best quarterback in the league. We're calling out these other guys, Josh Allen, they haven't won anything. There's one guy who's shown he can do it time and time again, and I think Travis Kelce, he'll get in better shape throughout camp and throughout preseason. He'll drop probably 12 to 15 pounds just in, in, in camp. So I'm not too worried about him. They don't need to lean on him. They went and got the running back from Seattle. They have enough pieces around to where we can. You can lean on Travis Kelsey toward the end of the season. Hope he's healthy for the postseason. You don't want to be leaning on him throughout the whole year anyway.

[Charles Robinson]

Yeah, Travis Kelsey is like, you know, keeping a safe place. He's like a fire extinguisher. Crack the glass when you need him. And they won't need him till December, January. And so I do think he'll be just fine. I don't blame him. He just married, you know, one of the richest entertainers in the world, attractive young woman, Taylor Swift. Hats off to Travis. I'd be the last guy to second guess him about a dad bod because I got two dad bods, so I'll just stop there. Maurice, I did want to ask you a follow up, just very quickly, just so I know going forward how seriously to take your football opinions. You think Shadora Sanders is a starting NFL quarterback?

[Maurice]

No, I'm not gonna say. I think it's. He's not proven, but I'd rather watch him play than desean Watson. I know he can't play anymore.

[Charles Robinson]

The same standard for everything. You just want to be entertained. As long as you. You don't care about win or lose.

[Jason Whitlock]

I. I actually think.

[Maurice]

Okay, here's the thing, Jason. I think at. At his best, I don't think Shador Sanders is a top five, top ten quarterback. I think he could.

[Charles Robinson]

You talking about on the Browns roster, maybe be a. You don't. You don't think he's top five on the Browns roster? Is it. Is that what you meant? I know you.

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

No, in the league.

[Maurice]

I'm talking about if he hits it reaches his highest potential. I don't think he has to be

[Charles Robinson]

a top five quarterbacks of the Browns of the last five or six years. Is that what you're saying?

[Maurice]

Oh, come on, Jason, don't. No, don't do that.

[Charles Robinson]

Could he be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL?

[Maurice]

I think Shador Sanders, with the right pieces around him, he could do what Kirk Cousins did. Or potentially a lower level. Dak Prescott.

[Jason Whitlock]

Hey, why not?

[Maurice]

They never won anything. If he can just get on a team and put up some numbers. What did Kirk Cousins ever win? What does Dak Prescott ever won in their 10 years in the NFL?

[Charles Robinson (continuation or side comments)]

Jason, you asking him the wrong question. Sure. This is going to test your football knowledge. If you put all the pieces around the quarterback, can Caitlin Clark be a starting quarterback in NFL?

[Maurice]

Caitlin. Caitlin Clark could be a starter in any sport at this point.

[Charles Robinson]

All right, gentlemen, we're done. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Great show today. I got more work to do. And we're going to be on time today because I'm pushing the envelope here. TJ Mo is going to join me and Shamika is going to join me. I want to talk about Dr. Anthony Fauci and his testimony in front of Congress yesterday, in front of the Senate. We'll do that on the Harmony channel. Give me three minutes. Three minutes from right now. I'll be on the Harmony channel. That's it. And that's all for us today on Fearless. We'll see you tomorrow.