Ep 1212 | Why 50 NFL Execs Ranked Shedeur Sanders Last — Deion = Stringer Bell

Summary

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Fearless with Jason Whitlock — Episode 1212

"Why 50 NFL Execs Ranked Shedeur Sanders Last — Deion = Stringer Bell"
Blaze Podcast Network | August 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the striking revelation that 50 NFL executives and coaches unanimously ranked Shedeur Sanders last (35th out of 35) among veteran quarterbacks entering the 2026 season. Host Jason Whitlock uses "The Wire" TV show analogies to frame a nuanced, critical discussion of Deion and Shedeur Sanders, the shifting media landscape around race and football, and the consequences of hype and branding that exceed on-field performance. The panel also tackles the blurred line between journalism and entertainment in sports media and finishes with candid social commentary on Cam Newton’s strip-club confessions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. NFL Execs Rank Shedeur Sanders Dead Last

Timestamp: 00:29 – 09:55

• Context: Mike Sando of The Athletic conducted a survey of 50 NFL execs and coaches, all of whom placed Shedeur Sanders at the bottom of the league’s veteran QB rankings.
• Racial stats: 6 of the bottom 7 ranked QBs are black; 10 of 14 at the bottom are QBs of color.
• Media shift noted: Whitlock argues that the honest, merit-based assessment of Sanders marks a turn away from racially guarded narratives that previously dominated mainstream sports media.

"The sports conversation is crawling back toward merit and off the racial scoreboard… A year ago, that list dies in an editor’s trash bin. Three years ago, the messenger gets called a racist before lunch."
— Jason Whitlock, (01:34)

• Rob Parker clip (03:10): Parker, often identified as part of “the racial grift,” admits Sanders “was bad last year,” aligning with the execs’ verdict.
• Protection racket metaphor: Whitlock argues that the old media shield for celebrity black athletes (like Deion) is thinning—there's no longer media cover for bad performance.

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2. The Wire Analogies: Deion = Stringer Bell, Shedeur = Cheese Wagstaff

Timestamp: 04:00 – 16:00

• Deion as Stringer Bell:
  Whitlock layers an extended analogy comparing Deion Sanders to Stringer Bell—ambitious, image-conscious, thinking he could launder street reputation into legitimacy, but ultimately not tough enough for the game nor smart enough for the big leagues.

"Deion Sanders is Stringer Bell with a headset, a gold chain and a Nike deal… Prime time, prime video... The press conferences that feel like product launches."
— Jason Whitlock, (05:16)

• Racial protection ending: The racial “umbrella” sheltering Deion and Shedeur is shrinking. Now, transparent scrutiny prevails; reputations and brand-building can't overcome poor results.

• Shedeur as Cheese Wagstaff:
  Shedeur’s image—chains, bravado, family name—evokes Cheese, the legacy child living on talk and access rather than results or earned status. Whitlock plays a contemplative interview clip (09:56 – 11:45) with Shedeur, who discusses identity and mental health, which Jason reads as brand relaunch rather than genuine evolution.

"That is not growth on the field. That is packaging. After the product failed the inspection, Cheese always had a story about who he was. The story never matched the tape."
— Jason Whitlock, (12:32)

• Panel debate on analogies: Dre Baldwin and others challenge Whitlock’s analogy, suggesting maybe Shedeur is closer to Randy Wagstaff or D'Angelo Barksdale, but Whitlock insists: "Shadour is not nearly smart enough to explain the game of chess to anybody." (31:54)

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3. Changing Media Landscape Around Race & Merit

Timestamp: 21:36 – 29:00

• Old regime dying: The group discusses how a column or anonymous poll branding a black quarterback as “the worst” would be considered racial bias in past years.
• Merit returning: Whitlock contends the climate has shifted so thoroughly that execs now speak honestly, unconstrained by fear of racial accusations.
• Panel disagreement: Dre Baldwin argues Shedeur’s poor play alone would have resulted in the same ranking even three years ago, and the difference is only in publicity and willingness to discuss it publicly.

"I think we've now moved into truth-telling season... They don't have that racial fear that they used to have. It's back to merit."
— Jason Whitlock, (23:45)

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4. Journalism vs. Entertainment: Stephen A. Smith’s Credentials Challenged

Timestamp: 44:32 – 56:50

• Wilbon vs. Stephen A.: Mike Wilbon asserts Stephen A. Smith is “not a journalist anymore.” Stephen A. responds defensively, claiming his Hall of Fame broadcast induction proves his decades of work and journalistic credentials.
• Whitlock’s critique: Whitlock eviscerates Stephen A.’s claim, labeling him a “DEI hire,” “a prop,” and a broadcaster, not a journalist—never respected for his reporting skills.
• Panel adds: Journalism requires truth-seeking, verification over assertion, and independence; Stephen A.’s career is now about “being the show, not covering the news.”

"Stephen A. doesn’t know what a journalist is because he’s never been one… He’s been a prop and a DEI hire."
— Jason Whitlock, (48:40)

• Broader point: Sports “journalists” today often cross over into pure entertainment, losing any stake in real news or accountability.

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5. WNBA: Sophie Cunningham Steps Back from Transgender Debate

Timestamp: 60:25 – 64:46

• Sophie Cunningham clip: Having become a focal point for speaking out on transgender issues in women’s sports, Cunningham now says she wishes to focus only on basketball and move past distractions.
• Whitlock’s analysis: Praises her for shifting back to the game but notes the irony—“she started the fire” but is now trying to quietly end it.
• Panel musings: Suggest a subtle orchestrated effort among players (including possibly Caitlin Clark) to de-escalate the circus-like atmosphere around social issues.

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6. Cam Newton’s Strip Club “Competition” Logic

Timestamp: 67:26 – 76:17

• **Newton explains he never went to strip clubs for women, but to competitively outspend other men, driven by ego and status signaling.
• Whitlock’s critical take: Sees this as emblematic of toxic competition among young black men, misplaced priorities, and poor money management.
• Dre Baldwin warns: Newton’s flippant tone can negatively affect young, impressionable fans who see him as a role model.
• Panel’s consensus: Newton’s commentary is a cautionary tale—without a positive counterbalance, this narrative perpetuates cycles of self-destructive behavior.

"When you have a mother and father like Cam does... this is so much disrespect toward your parents that you’re this clueless, foolish with money... Cam, there’s a way to talk about the mentality you had, but you need to be talking about it as something you’ve outgrown."
— Jason Whitlock, (71:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Shedeur’s Brand vs. Play:
  "You can strip the chains. You can scrub the lyrics. You can build a salt room and call the darkness a color scheme. You can tell Nadeska you were born into hate and that hate is nothing new. None of that moves you off 35 of 35. The tape does not care that dad stood next to Nick Saban in a commercial."
  — Jason Whitlock, (16:00)

• On the End of the Narrative Shield:
  "The NFL is Slim Charles with a depth chart. Those 50 ballots were the first clean shot. Rob Parker on national radio was the second. Training camp is going to be the third."
  — Jason Whitlock, (13:27)

• On Stringer Bell’s Fate/Deion’s Parallel:
  "Stringer did not die because he was stupid. He died because he was between the worlds and loyal to neither long enough to survive either. Cheese did not die because he was quiet. He died because he was loud in a room that had run out of patience for counterfeit bosses. Deion is the man without a country. Shadour is the nephew who thought the last name was a country."
  — Jason Whitlock, (19:55)

• On Stephen A. Smith:
  "He doesn't qualify in any way, shape, or form as a journalist... The news is not the show. You are the show. And when you become the show, you're not a journalist anymore."
  — Dre Baldwin, (55:06)

• On Cam Newton & Influence:
  "Young men, especially those who don't have fathers at home, are listening to people like him... These are the kind of things he's talking about on interviews. And there's nothing wrong with saying something funny and flippant... But there's a time and a place."
  — Dre Baldwin, (69:06)

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Panel Segment Highlights

Steve Berman, Dre Baldwin, "Scap":

• Debate whether Whitlock is “overzealous” burying Deion and Shedeur (21:36–25:50)
• Discuss the lasting impact of fathers; the dangers of flashy, superficial branding in QB play
• Analyze the evolution of quarterback media narratives and whether performance truly wins out (26:11–27:15)
• Deconstruct the Wire analogies—are they apt, or do other characters fit Shedeur better? (29:18–38:43)
• Address Deion’s probable fate at Colorado given dire projections (39:47–43:05)

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Section Timestamps

• Shedeur Sanders Ranked Last, Media Shifts — 00:29 – 09:55
• Wire Analogies (Deion/Stringer, Shedeur/Cheese) — 04:00 – 16:00
• Panel on Fatherhood, Race, & Merit — 21:36 – 29:00
• Stephen A. Smith: Journalist or Entertainer? — 44:32 – 56:50
• WNBA: Sophie Cunningham's Step Back — 60:25 – 64:46
• Cam Newton’s Strip Club Philosophy — 67:26 – 76:17

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Final Thoughts

Whitlock delivers a scorching examination of hype, black celebrity, football meritocracy, and the shifting winds of sports media. Using "The Wire" as both allegory and mirror, he contends that the time of rhetorical safe spaces and narrative bodyguards is ending for figures like Deion and Shedeur Sanders. The episode also sharpens lines between true journalism and entertainment, and grapples with the influence public figures have, for better or worse, on young men.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone following the cultural crossroads of football, media, race, and American storytelling.

Transcript

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[Jason Whitlock]

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[Jason Whitlock]

See terms Mike Sando did not rank Shador Sanders Last 50 NFL executives and coaches did. Sando's job at the Athletic was to collect the ballots. 21 executives, 29 coaches, 50 men who get paid to decide who starts and who sits and who gets cut. They place 35 veteran quarterbacks into tears for the 2026 season. Chador Sanders sits dead last 35 of 35. Six of the bottom seven are black quarterbacks. 10 of the bottom 14 are QBs of color. That is not a columnist. Hot take that is the league talking with the lights on. A year ago, that list dies in an editor's trash bin. Three years ago, the messenger gets called a racist before lunch. Five years ago, the New York Times never even green lights the idea, let alone the copy. Instead, they fire Sando and hire Scott Templeton from the wire to unpack the Dickensian aspect of Shador's quarterback plight. The overall overwrought color story. The orphan in the wheelchair who never existed. The Pulitzer for the fiction the city desk was not allowed to fact check. Gus Haynes gets demoted. Templeton gets the Pulitzer Prize. That was the old sports media. The Athletic published the executives. Anyway, the sports conversation is crawling back toward merit and off the racial scoreboard. There's that fire. Grab your popcorn. Ryan Clark's exit from ESPN was the warning shot. Inject race into every whistle, every hire, every highlight, and the network finally cut the cord. Ten NFL coaching jobs opened this offseason. Zero went to black coaches. Skin color stopped being a resume line that worked. The grift lost its protection racket. People can speak honestly about the Sanders family again. Rob Parker. Rob Parker said it on national radio. Fox Sports Radio. The odd Couple. Not a TV panel with a producer riding the mute button. Parker built a career on the racial grift. He still buried Shador Sanders on air. Take a listen. My thing with Shador is. I don't know what you were watching. I mean, he was bad last year.

[Steve Berman]

I don't.

[Jason Whitlock]

I don't know how anybody other. I don't think they're picking on him. He was bad well enough. It was like the worst, right? Rob G. What was it the worst? Starting quarterback numbers. Historically. I know a lot of people, they love his dad. And if he was George Smith playing quarterback with those numbers, you just wouldn't be you. You talk about his personal or whatever. No, George Smith would be getting killed. I don't think we Would anyone be talking. When your own mercenary stops running interference, the brand is cooked. Still, Skip Bayless is the last hired gun still working the detail. Everybody else has left the building. Which brings me to Deion Sanders and to the greatest television show ever put on American television. Russell Stringer Bell, Idris Elba. The Wire, Season three, especially. Stringer was Avon Barksdale's second in command. Sharp suit, clean lines, camera ready face. He ran meetings by Robert's rules of order. He sat in macroeconomics at Baltimore City Community College. He kept Adam Smith's the Wealth of nations on the shelf like a Bible he half understood. He formed the New Day Co op with Proposition Joe. Rival dealers at one table, talking supply and murder rates like a chamber of commerce. He bought politicians, he bought fronts. He bought the fantasy that the corner could be laundered into condominiums and federal housing grants. Stringer thought he was the Albert Einstein of the drug game. He was a man who read the right books but still could not read the room. Deion Sanders is Stringer Bell with a headset, a gold chain and a Nike deal. Prime time, prime video. The sunglasses, the fur coats. The press conferences that feel like product launches. The commercials next to Nick Saban. Nick Saban. Six national titles at Alabama. Every second of that air time earned the hard way. Dion stood in the same frame. Like the resumes matched. It does not match. Saban built a dynasty. Dion is 16 and 21 at Colorado. 4 and 8. 9 and 4. 3 and 9. Projected 15th in a 16 team. Big 12 this season. That is not a rebuild. That is a sales pitch that outran the product. Stringer got away with it for years because Avon, Avon's name, Avon's muscle, the bodyguard, stayed paid. Deion's umbrella was the racial grift media that treated every critique of Shedeur or Deion as a hate crime. Defenders who ran to the cameras the second a scout whispered mechanics. A culture that made celebrity a substitute for wins. As long as that racket held, Dion could stand next to Saban and the audience was trained not to laugh. The brand protected the record. The narrative protected the brand. Then the umbrella closed. Clay Davis Rainmade Stringer Bell. Rainmade is a political con. A scammer. Takes your money for a service he has no actual control over. Takes total credit if it ever rains. Demands more money when the drought hits and is long gone when the weather turns for good. Grin like a billboard handout for the envelope Stringer paid for federal housing access and political cover. Clay Davis pocketed the cash and left him holding permits and excuses. The sports media version of Klay Davis sold Dion generational and culture shifter. When Colorado went 4 and 8, the Rainmakers blamed the roster. When they went 9 and 4, the Rainmakers claimed the miracle. When they went 3 and 9, the envoys doubled checks cleared. The winds did not. That is the Rainmaked the drought. The drought is always your fault and the rain is always their gift. Avon's line is the whole diagnosis. Late in season three, talking to Stringer. I look at you these days, String. You know what I see? I see a man without a country. Not hard enough for this right here. And maybe, just maybe, not smart enough for them out there. Not hard enough for the street. Not smart enough for the legitimate world. No country. That is Deion Sanders in 2026. Not tough enough for the scoreboard. 16 and 21 does not lie. Not legitimate enough for the room he bought with celebrity. The racial grift that used to bodyguard both of them is thinning out in real time. 50 coaches and executives ranking his son last is the evidence. Parker's radio hit is the evidence. Ryan Clark's empty chair is the evidence. When the bodyguards leave, you learn who you were, who you were without them. If Deion is a man with no country, we should not be surprised his son struggles with identity. Stringer Bell raised the Cheese Wag staff of quarterbacks. You remember Melvin Cheese Wagstaff. Proposition Joe's nephew. Loud, branded. Always talking, always performing. Always louder than the work. Cheese did not build the Co op. Joe built the Co Op. Cheese inherited the last name, the access, the corners and the assumption that blood made him a boss. He wore the life like jewelry. He talked the life like a press conference when the real players move. Marlo, Stanfield, Chris Chris, Snoop, Cheese, Flip. He sold Joe to Marlow. He sat in the meeting like he had earned the chair. He had not earned the chair. He had rented it with the last name and a mouth. Shador Sanders is trying to rebrand in real Time. You can see it in his interview with Nadeska Alexis on Apple Music. He sat down to talk, turned back and the Browns and a first year away from the family compound. Listen to what he is selling. Take a listen.

[Shedeur Sanders]

You could tell in the music there's no cussing, you know, I mean, do I say bad words sometimes? Yes, I do.

[Dre Baldwin]

There was cussing in the first one, right?

[Jason Whitlock]

Perfect timing.

[Shedeur Sanders]

It was a little bit.

[Sophie Cunningham]

It's cool.

[Jason Whitlock]

A couple years ago, things changed.

[Shedeur Sanders]

Things changed. Things changed. I know I hold the power within myself and those items is just accessories. That's not who I am. So it was times. It was times, you know, I was down and I thought, let me put on a chain right quick. Like, let me feel back to being me. But that didn't do anything. I don't look at social comments. I don't. I look at, like, I'll say. I look at DMs from like my aunties and uncles that really show love, you know, I really appreciate them. I think this is my first year without my family. First year, everything. So it's simple. Like it's small things in life that, that, that, that I understand, you know, really being on your own and really understanding what that family bond is. So I appreciate my family much more now. I have created things within myself to bring me peace. Like, I just put. I'm thankful to my mom. She helped me with a salt room in my house and everything. And it's like I. Off season is just to prepare yourself mentally to go through whatever you're going to go through during the season. I know a lot of people took a lot of losses in their life, but my loss, big loss.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Shedeur Sanders]

I mean, but it's not even a loss. I changed that. I really won.

[Steve Berman]

Yeah.

[Dre Baldwin]

I can't imagine.

[Shedeur Sanders]

I gained knowledge. Yeah.

[Sophie Cunningham]

That's.

[Shedeur Sanders]

This year got me closer to God and everything. Like, I was watching sermons and everything every morning and then it was just saying, like, you know, you winning if you just keep going. I know I ain't win no awards tonight. I probably got the people's champ award, but that's probably it.

[Jason Whitlock]

So deep. So just so deep. I don't know, man. You know, the people's champ, you know, music with no cussing because perfect timing had some. And things change. Chains as just accessories, not identity. He said there were nights he was so low, he put a chain on quick to feel back to being me. And it did nothing. He does not read the comments. He only opens dms from aunties and uncles. He's got a salt room in the house. Sermons every morning. Wisdom over money, purpose, legacy. Five year thinking. People's champ. Energy with no hardware. The whole package is a soft relaunch. Less jewelry, cleaner lyrics, therapy, talk tithing language. Garden vi garden. Garden variety. Give back. A young man sanding the edges off the brand that got him drafted into A league where 50 executives and coaches just ranked him last among 35. That is not growth on the field. That is packaging. After the product failed the inspection, Cheese always had a story about who he was. The story never matched the tape. When Prop Joe was gone and the co op sat under new management, Cheese still talked like the room owed him oxygen. Slim Charles ended that conversation. And in one of the most satisfying scenes in the final season of the Wire, one shot clean. No speech from Cheese that mattered. Slim's line was short enough to carve in stone. That was for Jill. People watching at home celebrated. I know I did not. Because murder is beautiful. Because the loudest fraud in the room finally met a man who did not care about the last name, the jury, or the monologue. The NFL is Slim Charles with a depth chart. Those 50 ballots were the first clean shot. Rob Parker on national radio was the second. Training camp is going to be the third. You can strip the chains. You can scrub the lyrics. You can build a salt room and call the darkness a color scheme. You can tell Nadeska you were born into hate and that hate is nothing new. None of that moves you off. 35 of 35. The tape does not care that dad stood next to Nick Saban in a commercial. The tape does not care that the old media wanted a Dickensian feature instead of a ranking from the men who hire quarterbacks. The tape is Slim Charles. It does not need a monologue. It needs a reason to keep you alive in the offense. Shador has not given it one that survives honest light. Stringer could not protect the corners and the condos at the same time. He wanted the suit without the scars. He wanted Avon's protection while he sold Avon out to the police. Mutual betrayal. Omar Little and brother Muzan walked him down at the unfinished development site. The building that was supposed to prove Stringer had gone legitimate. Rebar sticking out of the dream. No Avon, no co op. No Clay Davis. Just the streak collecting what the street always collects. Dion wanted the Saban commercial without the Saban resume. He wanted the racial shield without the wind column that makes shields unnecessary. He wanted Shador protected by narrative. After the tape stopped protecting Shador, Slim Charles told Avon to keep the war going even after Stringer was dead and the organization was bleeding. If it's a lie, we fight on that lie. That is the Sanders playbook in real time. The Nadeska interview is the latest round. Less jewelry, cleaner lyrics, salt room sermons. All of it is Slim Charles logic. Keep fighting on the narrative because the narrative is the last thing standing. The problem is Slim Charles said it to a man who still had corners, muscle and soldiers willing to bleed. Deion is fighting on the lie with a 1621 record, a son ranked 35th by the People who cut the checks, and a Big 12 schedule that does not negotiate with brands. Same eulogy, different city. And the sun raised inside that countryless house is doing what Cheez did when the umbrella fell. Talking louder, dressing cleaner, spiritualizing the loss, calling the rebrand wisdom. Cheese called his seat at the table destiny. It was inventory. Shedeur is learning the difference on a Browns roster that does not owe the Sanders name a single snap. McNulty searched Stringer's apartment after the body hit the ground. Clean, stylish, tasteful. I the books were real. The ambition was real. The gap between the man he performed and the man the game required was also real. Respect does not reopen a closed casket. Dion's house is full of the same furniture. Common documentaries, brand deals, dynasty talk. A son drafted into a league that ranked him last. Shadour's interview is more of the furniture, soft lighting, cleaner bars, no cussing, accessories demoted to accessories. The dream is still loud. The record is still quiet. As the racial Griff loses voltage, the gap stops being a media debate and starts being a career with an expiration date. Stringer did not die because he was stupid. He died because he was between the worlds and loyal to neither long enough to survive even either. Cheese did not die because he was quiet. He died because he was loud. In a room that had run out of patience for counterfeit bosses. Dion is the man without a country. Shadour is the nephew who thought the last name was a country. Slim Charles does not grade on pedigree. Neither does September. Neither do 50 executives and coaches with a ballot and a job to keep chickens come home to roost on a 1621 record dressed up like a dynasty and on a quarterback ranked 35th by the People who actually employ quarterbacks trying to out talk a depth chart. College football marked the father in chalk. The league is lining up the sun. The pusher man of the old grievance inventory is restocking fewer shelves. The ballots got published. The the radio hit landed the bodyguards walked. A man without a country does not need a villain. He needs a mirror. Stringer got his at half at a half built site in Baltimore. Cheese got his from Slim Charles in a co op meeting on the streets. Dion is getting his on Saturdays in the Big 12. Shador is getting his every time the Browns post a depth chart that does not care what he told Nadeska about chains. One honest scoreboard at a time. Oh, you know, you can smell September and football season. If I'm back in my wire bag making analogies to football and the greatest TV show of all time, Steve Kim will have no complaints about me and the wnba. Today I am. It's football, baby. It's the wire. It's. It's old school. Whitlock, he never went away. He just, you know, just August. We're rolling into September. It's football season. I'm, I'm, I'm back in my bag. Before I get to the panel, let me just remind you all of why I'm able to get back in my bag. And it's because we got supporters and sponsors and a partner like Preborn. Pre. Pre Born shares my worldview, our worldview that life begins at conception. Preborn is the organization that supports that worldview better than any organization in America. Preborn provides expectant mothers who are considering abortion, provides them. An ultrasound introduces that baby's heartbeat and image to the mother while the baby's in the womb. That woman is now twice as likely to choose life. And that's when Preborn really steps in and steps up and supports that mother and child for up to two years. They can do it. Because me, you, and everybody that can hear the sound of my voice supports preborn. Each ultrasound cost $28. Five ultrasounds is $140. Your best gift today could and will save a baby's life. You need to give it today. Go to visit preborn.com fearless that's preborn.com fearless or dial £250. Say the keyword baby. That's £250, keyword baby, please. If you want to feel good about yourself, if you want God to feel good about you, let's help save babies lives today. Preborn.com fearless£250 keyword baby thank you, preborn. And thank you guys for supporting preborn. All right, let's get to my panel. Steve Kim, Charles Baker. Dre Baldwin. Steve, I'm gonna. Oh, I'm sorry. Scap. Not Charles. I'm sorry, Steve. I'm going to start with you. Am I being overzealous, burying both Dion and Shador before any football game has cooked all kicked off, college or pro.

[Steve Berman]

Of course you are. But I respect the consistency. I respect how you're staying on Brand. You know, Bobby Knight had the motion offense, Lombardi had the power sweep. You've got this.

[Shedeur Sanders]

I get it.

[Steve Berman]

You know, it's the priest. By the way, Carson Beckmania starts tonight. Hall of Fame game, not. You could have mentioned that. But that's okay. I'm already beginning my tailgate to watch that fine football contest in Kent, Ohio. You are being very hard, but I think you're also being very honest. But, Jason, I have a question. Aren't you being a little hard on the father son relationship? I know a lot of people are being critical of Coach Sanders visiting his son. Don't a lot of fathers do that, though? Is that really an issue with you?

[Jason Whitlock]

I'm going to blame Dion for the things I see in Shador that are a direct reflection of Dion. And I think the bluster, the over emphasis of swagger and confidence, the jewelry, the hate. Look at me. I blame Dion for that because Shadour doesn't have the talent to carry that type of attitude and that type of swagger, and he plays a position that doesn't honor those things. I blame Dion for foisting those attributes on the Shador.

[Steve Berman]

Jason, I will agree with you on that, because a father's influence is a blessing and a curse. It absolutely matters. Especially, and I agree with you, if you're not going to be that prodigious, once in a lifetime talent, you have to be more humble, more modest, especially at a position where over 45 men look up to you and you have to lead them. I agree with you on that. But I. I will say this again, to my original point. I did not have much of an issue with Coach Sanders visiting his son before his own training camp started, because reality is, he's not going to see him for a while, most likely so. But overall point, I do think you said a lot of things I believe that most people would agree with. A lot of people don't want to admit.

[Jason Whitlock]

Dre, I'm going to come to you. The 35 out of 35 ranking from Mike Sando and the 50 coaches executives he's talked to. I really, truly believe that if this were two or three years ago, even in off the record conversations, I don't think a group of 50 NFL executives and coaches would have been willing to anonymously vote Shadour that low. I. I think they would be too afraid of the blowback of being a again, it's all anonymous but they just wouldn't participate or, or they would have ranked him higher and he would have never finished 35 out of 35. But I think we've now moved into truth telling season and, and people aren't they. They don't have that racial fear that they used to have and it's back to merit and it's more back to hey, this is my honest evaluation. Am I right or wrong here?

[Dre Baldwin]

I say wrong. I think he still would have got ranked the same way if his performance was the same because this is still a performance based business. I think it would not get as much attention back then. Probably people would try to bury it and act like it's not a thing and be able to paper over it similar to the analogy you use when it came to cheeks Cheese Wagstaff on wire. But I think he still would have got ranked the way he got ranked because these anonymous people are ranking him anonymously. So if he didn't perform, he didn't perform. There's no way that you can act like that didn't happen. I think these days more people are willing to talk about it and be open about it and talk about why he got ranked, where he got ranked and just be honest on his performance rather than act as if it didn't happen or act as if there's some way to dance around it. Nobody's dancing around it now. I do think though, we still have the season in front of us, so you might have, I don't know, Jason, you may come to regret what you said here. You may have put some battery in the back of Shador Sanders to go and make you eat your words this season.

[Jason Whitlock]

I'll never regret it. Even if I'm dead wrong, I won't regret it because it's what I believe it. Let me ask you, let me reframe the question differently then. Do you think three years ago, and this is the Athletic, which is the New York Times, do you think they would have even published this article three years ago?

[Dre Baldwin]

Probably not.

[Jason Whitlock]

Not in.

[Dre Baldwin]

That's what we're talking 20, 23. So we were right kind of in that transition when it came to the, the blm, the racial stuff. It wasn't a big deal in the NFL, I don't think. Not with somebody like Shador Sanders. He has played into it much. His fans have, but he personally has not. Dion has, but Shador has personally not. So would the New York Times have run it Maybe, but it might not have gotten as much juice behind it, is what I said.

[Jason Whitlock]

Scap. I completely disagree with J. Dre, particularly on his first take, because I think Kaepernick or Kaepernick is where I'm going. I think Shador would have gotten the Colin Kaepernick treatment. Like Colin Kaepernick was trash his last year in the NFL and people still talked about him as if he weren't trash anonymously. On the record. I think Shedeur would have gotten the Collard and Kaepernick treatment. Everybody would hear no evil, see no evil, just buried their head in the sand. Oh, he's, he's still headed to being a franchise quarterback. Jay.

[Ryan Reynolds]

JAY yeah, for whatever reason, Jason, there's still this running racial narrative regarding quarterbacks and how quarterbacks aren't given a fair crack if they're, if they're black. So I think that you're right. When, when a, when a prominent black quarterback not saying Shador Sanders was, but his name kind of makes him that when, when they, you know, aren't performing. I think there has been over the last several years, that push by the media to offer that protection, despite what the product we're seeing on the field. So I don't think, I don't think that's an unreasonable take by you at all. And I think it does signal that we are, though, moving in a new direction, that we're calling out exactly what it was with Shador last year. The guy was garbage. Seven touchdowns and 10 interceptions. And the fact that this is even being presented as a quarterback battle right now. Look, desean Watson is. He's one of the biggest tragic characters in sports, if you ask me. The guy was incredible for his first four years. His rookie year before he shredded his knee up, he had like 19 touchdowns and 1700 yards in six games. He was well on the way to maybe the best rookie quarterback statistical campaign we'd ever seen. And then in his age 25 season, his last one in Houston, he was undeniably a top five quarterback. He led the league in passing yards, second in total QB rating behind only league MVP Aaron Rodgers that year, and above Patrick Mahomes. That's who Deshaun Watson was that last year. Now he, Tiger woods himself over the last three seasons, basically. But who knows? The guy's making 40 plus million dollars this year. He's going to be given every opportunity to get that job. And if it's Shador Sanders and the product we saw last year, I don't see any way Shador should even be insinuating himself into this quarterback battle.

[Jason Whitlock]

Jay, I do want you, and I'm gonna circle back to you on this as well. Dre, could you rank. I've done a lot of wire analogies throughout my career.

[Shedeur Sanders]

A lot.

[Jason Whitlock]

I really believe this was some of my best work. I mean, I've been perfecting this now for nearly two decades, so it should be. But the quality of my wire analogies here, comparing Dion to Stringer, comparing Shador to Cheese. Any thoughts, comments on that? Evening? Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car. I'll be moving in.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Let's get started.

[Jason Whitlock]

Sorry, I think there's been a mistake.

[Dre Baldwin]

I bought it from Carvana.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You what?

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no. No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I guess I'll let myself out.

[Jason Whitlock]

Congratulations. I mean it.

[Dre Baldwin]

Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana.

[Jason Whitlock]

Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven day return [e-mail].

[Ryan Reynolds]

well, Jason, it was a terrific, thoughtful, and thoroughly well executed analogy on your behalf, I have to say, tip of the cap and bravo to you. My. The only reservation I have is I actually like Stringer. He was a character. He was kind of a sympathetic character for me. I rooted for Stringer. So I hate to analogize him with Dion. And I you. As for your. For your Shador comp with. With Cheese, I guess it would just be. I have to ask, what was. What is Shador's true motivations behind that interview? Is it all tongue in cheek? Is it all just him popping off, talking? Is it words? Only if it is, I agree with your Cheese comp. Otherwise, if that's a. A remorseful kind of rebranding and. And something that he wants to move in the direction of now, overall, I don't know, Jason. I see more of a d' Angelo Barksdale type figure there after Wallace's death, you know, and he turns and he flips on Avon. I see. Maybe in that interview, is that Shador flipping and turning on Dion and realizing I have to be different here. I have to change. I can't. I can't get away with all of that bravado that that prime had, because prime had this skill, obviously, that Shador doesn't possess. So maybe he actually is turning on Pops. Maybe this is a Barksdale type situation going on.

[Jason Whitlock]

Listen, I gave some thought to d' Angelo Barksdale, but I just reached the conclusion Shador is not nearly smart enough to explain the game of chess to anybody. And so there's no way I could compare him to d' Angelo Barksdale. But, Dre, where do you come down on this?

[Dre Baldwin]

So I like the fact that you tried to integrate the wire. I don't think the connection matches too well. Was, first of all, Cheese's son was Randy Wagstaff. I think you might shouldn't have gone with Cheese and Randy, because Randy, he gets. He. Let's say Shador is Randy. He gets drafted to a new family, the Cleveland Browns. Someone firebombs the house of that new family. Now he's a man without a family. And now he has Bunk leaving him behind at the boy's home, saying, hey, you gonna take care of me?

[Jason Whitlock]

I don't know who that would be, but go ahead.

[Dre Baldwin]

Was that car okay? Carver. Right. So now I think. But we would have to figure out who Carver would be. And as far as the d' Angelo Barksdale, the challenges. D' Angelo didn't have any kids, and d' Angelo didn't fully flip on the Barksdale family. He flipped halfway. If he really flipped, he wouldn't have took that 20 years. But his mom made him take the 20.

[Jason Whitlock]

So we would have to get flip, though Stringer had. Yeah.

[Dre Baldwin]

His wife. His mom.

[Shedeur Sanders]

Yeah.

[Dre Baldwin]

So they. We had to get his mom involved. And then somebody had to be McNulty saying, hey, mom, why are you making your son take the years? So this could go a lot of different directions. I don't think we have enough characters right now. And the last thing I've got enough characters on the real side, the NFL side. The last thing is, if Shador was really trying to rebrand, he wouldn't have even done that interview. Because a quarterback who threw seven touchdowns and 10 interceptions. Why are you doing interviews? What are you talking about? You didn't do anything. So what he's doing is still trying to be Dion Light. While he has not done Dion's performance. Dion came right into the league and dominated. Shador has not done that. He should be very, very quiet until his performance is louder than his off the field stuff. I don't think he's capable of doing that.

[Jason Whitlock]

Steve, I'm gonna bring. Steve, I'm gonna bring you into this because Dre has finally unseated you as the most annoying person on this show. For Dre to suggest that I was wrong about my wire analogy and do it as matter of factly as he did it is the kind of disrespect I normally don't tolerate on this Show. I get it from you, and that's it. But I can see that Dre is definitely after your seat in trying to be the most annoying person on the show. And I can't remember, Steve, if you. If you. You. I didn't include you as much in this part of the conversation because I can't remember if you even watched the Wire.

[Steve Berman]

I watched the Wire here or there. And I'll respectfully disagree. I thought the White Shadow was the greatest show ever and only lasted three seasons. But the Drake's point, I think that the reason why should Door interviews. I think.

[Jason Whitlock]

Steve, we're gonna have to reboot you again, bro, because this. This is terrible. We got. We got some work to do. Cut Steve and let him come back. We got some. This two days in a row. This is not good. I don't know.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Jason. Jason. I feel like possibly that was just the. The Internet connection. God. Striking him down for suggesting the White Shadow was better than the Wire. It's basically. It's between the Wire and Breaking Bad. Those are the only two reasonable or realistic shows you can bring up.

[Jason Whitlock]

Sopranos. I'd have to put. Put in there, too, and the Shield. But anyway, we. I go to continue. Scap.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah, just. Just a terrible. A terrible take was in the authoring by Steve. So in terms of. Back to your analogy, though, I. I do. I'm begrudgingly. I'm with you on the Stringer Bell Dion analogy, even though, again, I really do. I always liked Stringer. I actually. Avon was the criminal in the two of. Of their relationship. So then I would lean more to. Towards a Dion. Avon comp. Basically, Avon, essentially, he was what he was, right? He did. He never changed. Like, Stringer was at least trying to evolve, whereas Deion. He's not trying to change. He's trying to. He's trying to utilize that same bravado, the. The same arrogance that he always deployed when he was on the football field. But he doesn't have those same skills and talents as. As a head football coach. So I feel like he's just rigidly sticking to what he knows and who he is, which would be more like Avon. And, you know, for me, luckily enough, I disliked Avon. In fact, I don't like that actor in any of the things he's played. He. He was.

[Jason Whitlock]

He remembers Wood, Woody Harris, I think Wood, Harrison. Remember the Titans. You don't. Come on, man.

[Dre Baldwin]

He was the guy with the book bag and above the rim.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I most think of him as Birdie's lead. Lead guy in above the rim or who ends up. He's the one that ends up shooting Shep at the end of the movie. So I. I've always disliked that character because that is who I primarily align him with.

[Dre Baldwin]

Here's what I would say. Scat. First of all, you said Avon was a criminal. Stringer Bell, first of all, was devoid of morals when he got d' Angelo Barksdale murdered in jail. What is the first thing he goes and does and sleeps with d' Angelo's woman? That's the first thing he went and did. Secondly, even when he was trying to do the deal with Clay Davis, he was money laundering. That's illegal, what he was doing. Secondly, Clay Davis just beat the charges. But that was money laundering, what Stringer was doing. And Avon was right. Dude, you're not smart enough to go run with those guys. They know the game. They used you. And now you're only halfway in the street game, to the point that Slim Charles, who's supposed to work for a Stringer, disrespected him and said, I'm not going to do what you're telling me to do. And he said, you do what I tell you. And Slim Charles is like, no, I don't know about that. And then Avon said, no, you're not going to do that. So I can't say that Stringer Bell was this upstanding, moral character. Yeah, he had a nice apartment and it was nice and clean, but the guy was just as much a criminal as everybody else in that show. Only thing is, he was trying to do it the quote unquote, white collar way, but white collar crime is still crime. What I would say when it comes to Shador Sanders is Jason, you would have to put the pieces together with this. I think it's Cesric Daniels talking to Carver and saying to me, those stripes aren't earned. Shador is walking around as if he has stripes. What stripes do you have? Where did you earn them? You got your number retired at Colorado for playing, what, two seasons? Because your dad works there. You're walking around as if you have stripes. Why is he doing interviews? I still don't understand it. How many interviews has Lamar Jackson done this past offseason? How many did Patrick Mahomes do, who won the Super Bowl? How many interviews did he do? Why is Shador Sanders doing interviews? Why is he doing podcasts? He hasn't done anything. He's talking about getting back to himself. But yourself is not good in the NFL. You haven't earned your stripes. He needs a Cedric Daniels to look him in the face and say, you have not earned your stripes. And I don't think his dad is that guy. That's his problem.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah. The only way it's going to happen is someone like Slim Charles gonna have to walk up behind him and say, this is for Joe, you loud mouth, fraudulent punk, and put him down. He is cheese Wagstaff. I don't wanna. I. I don't want to go too far down. Down this, down this deal. I. I do wanna let me switch to a little bit more of just the football aspect of it and this. Did Steve come back? Because Steve could help us here. But, but. All right, Steve, I'm gonna let you start off here, and if we got the connected issues, we'll just have to punt and call it a day for you. But Colorado is projected 15th in the Big 12 of 16 teams. If that happens, Dion definitely gets fired. What do you think? Is that a fair projection or are they the 50? I've seen these midget videos saying it's a team of midgets running around, but 15th in the Big 12, that. That seems like a death sentence for Dion.

[Steve Berman]

It does. When you're projected to be. If it's 15th place in a conference that's Big 12, that ain't good. And I. Here's what I think will happen. If that comes true, he will then say, I'm stepping away due. Due to health reasons. And it'll be. I don't know, we want to call it a graceful exit, but I think it'll be one that both sides would be amenable to him.

[Jason Whitlock]

16 and 21. And perhaps headed they. They'll play a 12 game schedule. I'll give them four victories. That'll be 20 and. And eight more losses. That 20 and 29 scap. That's an embarrassing tenure for Dion at Colorado.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah, 100% an unmitigated failure. And I think if that does happen, that's exactly what I was thinking. By the way, what Steve said. When you're projected 15th in a conference called the Big 12, you're not on good footing, obviously, before the season begins. And I don't see any way with. With, you know, the fact that he has no goodwill built up with any of these previous seasons, I don't see any way he escapes it if that is indeed what happens if they finish towards the bottom of the conference. He's got to. Whether it's by his own doing or by the administrations, he has to be done. This has to be his final year.

[Jason Whitlock]

Dre, do you see any way that they pull it out, and, you know, I think he's probably got to win seven games, six games at least be bowl eligible to keep this thing going. Do. Do you think Dion can get the ship going a different direction?

[Dre Baldwin]

As an athlete at heart, Jason, I always have to defer to the performance. So we're talking about what might happen. This is a projection for the season, but, hey, they might not finish 15th. What if they finish 5th? What if they finish 4th? What they win the conference? I'm not saying it's probable, but they could. They still have a say on the field beyond what the critics have to say about them. Do I think it's possible he could do it? Yes, because, I mean, that's why they play the games. As Steve Berman would often say on the NFL show after the games, every Sunday, they got to play the games. If they do finish in the bottom and they have a losing record again, I think. I don't think Dion is going to be fired. I think he's going to be allowed to decide to step down and walk away. I think they'll let him walk away with some dignity.

[Jason Whitlock]

I don't. Yeah, I don't know if he's capable of walking away with some dignity. I think he's capable of saying, y' all didn't give me the resources and that if a white coach had done what I had done year two, this or that would have happened. I think. I think Dion's ending is messy. Whether Colorado wants it not to be messy or not, it's going to be messy because Dion is never going to be taking any blame or any accountability for any failure. It will be Colorado's failure. You know, his mouthpieces in the media have been diminished, but he'll get Shannon Sharp and Ocho Cinco and others to spread, Skip Bayless to spread, you know, just how Colorado just wasn't comfortable with an authentic black man and support it. I really. Steve, you agree with me? Yeah.

[Steve Berman]

I mean, does he. Does he more authentic than John Embry and Karl Durrell? You know, I know people are going to look at where Karl Darrell left the program, and let's say your scenario happens and Deion walks away or they have a separation. I would compare his run to Mike McIntyre. Mike McIntyre actually took him to a Pac 12 championship game back in 2016. I thought he was pretty good. My argument would be if the Deion Sanders acolytes came out and said, well, they didn't give us a shot or they didn't give him the resources. I would say, okay, fair. But this is the one point that I've never gotten over Jason. He didn't go out and recruit. He's the one head coach that I know of across the country. Never makes a home visit. I don't know of another coach any color, just my opinion. Get away with that type of negligence on his job.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, it's. It's a. A rough, rough look for Dion. I'm going to move on. I want to move on to a conversation Mike Wilbon and Stephen A. Smith had yesterday. And I think it started because Mike Wilbon made a really, what? I think a common sense comment that Stephen A. Smith is not a journalist. He's a show. Uh, let's. Let's play that sot first. Stephen A. I'm looking at you. I love you. You know that?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Stop.

[Jason Whitlock]

You're not a journalist anymore. You're not doing what you did at the Philly Inquirer. Stop. Dude, I know what you did there because I was shoulder to shoulder with

[Ryan Reynolds]

you at Press Road and Press Boxes and practice.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yes, Practice.

[Steve Berman]

Yeah.

[Jason Whitlock]

Allen Iverson's practicing.

[Dre Baldwin]

Stop.

[Jason Whitlock]

No. Stephen A's a show.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He's a show.

[Jason Whitlock]

He knows it. He wants to be the show. That's Mike Wilbon saying something harmless and respectful and saying, hey, you used to be a journalist. I don't agree with Mike Wilbon, but I'll. I'll defer and wait for. For before I unpack, before I unpack my thoughts on that. But Stephen A. Went on his own show and responded to Will Bond yesterday. Let's play that. I do 22 hours of live content per week, over 900 hours a year. I am universally recognized, if for nothing else, my hard work. When I say to an athlete that'll come at me or anybody else in sports, that I'm a journalist, I'm talking about by trade and nature. I'm talking about a body of work that spans decades. No, I don't have to do that anymore. I've graduated. Mike Wilbon's right. Not a journalist anymore per se, in terms of my daily responsibilities and duties. But I'm always a journalist at heart. Because what I was taught is what guides me through this terrain of news and beyond in the world of sports and beyond. Mike Wilbon is a Hall of Famer. If you check the news, somebody's about to be inducted into the Broadcast hall of Fame, which is the creme de la creme come September. His name is Stephen A. Smith. That didn't happen. Cause I talk shit. It happened Because I backed it up with my work throughout my 30 plus year career. Like I said, ain't nobody hiding. It's hard on me, man, because people think I'm a hater. But I, I, I just Mike Wilbon said something harmless and non offensive. Stephen A. Smith knows how fraudulent he is. So he responds to everything with the thinnest skin possible because he's just afraid like oh, Wilbourne said that. And people are going to figure out that, you know, Winston Salem State gave me my grades and a lot about my basketball career and the Philadelphia Inquirer, the editors knew I couldn't write and, and I've been carried. I'm a fraud. So let me go to. I'm a Broadcast hall of Famer and that's because of the work I put in. And anybody with a brain. Broadcast hall of Fame, that has nothing to do with journalism, that has nothing to do with Mike Wilbond's point. Stephen A. Doesn't know what a journalist is because he's never been one. He's been a prop and a DEI hire. And I'm sorry if that makes some of you uncomfortable. It makes you think I'm a hater. But again, the reason why he's not beating the chess. I did this piece of work as a journalist. I, I got this. Awards or accolades as a journalist. He doesn't have any of that. He's never had any of that. If, if the media wasn't so gutless. All the people that knew Stephen a. In the 90s and 2000s and talked smack about him and considered him the bane of journalism that have now all flipped and are afraid to say anything about him because they all were still hoping, well, maybe I'll get hired at ESPN and I don't want to jeopardize that. But Steve, Stephen A. Calling himself a journalist at, during any point of his career and pretending like buying your way into or getting put into the Broadcast hall of Fame is somehow testament to what a great journalist you are. That's a joke to me. Stay.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill? It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time. Fortunately though, Mint Story is better. Every plan, $15 a month, even unlimited.

[Steve Berman]

That's it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Happy ending, zero tears. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Jason Whitlock]

of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12

[Dre Baldwin]

month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy.

[Sophie Cunningham]

See terms.

[Steve Berman]

Yeah. And I thought Wilmont said the most basic fundamental truth. Look, Stephen A. Has been successful. But to say the journalist, I think if you really think about it, he's a provocateur. He's a carnival barker. You could say he's a puppet. I know you do. But say he's a journalist. Here's the problem I have with him even saying that I still have a journalistic foundation. He apologizes way too much for the most basic fundamental truth that everyone else agrees with. To me. And you've been in this position, Jason, you'll see something that people don't like and you know it's true. You just say, look, you don't have to like it, but that's your role as a journalist. But even that paper, there are beat writers and then there are columnists, right? You graduate to that level. The argument that Stephen A. Is making is that I have graduated to that level. Here's the problem though. Most good columnists or every good columnist that I've read, they will say things knowing that they make people uncomfortable and they will never back down. Stephen A. Smith, like clockwork, you know when he is going to apologize, when he offends the wrong people.

[Jason Whitlock]

Scap I know you're a big fan. I'm a big fan of some, some Jim Rome. I don't think Jim Rome would beat his chest about what a great journalist he was. Hell of a broadcaster. Hell of a. But one of the, maybe arguably the greatest sports broadcaster of the last 30 years. But he, he would not be standing up said what a great journalist I am. Stephen A. Smith is a broadcaster and you know, maybe he does belong in the broadcast hall of fame. I don't think so. I think that's a gift as well. He never as clever, as well researched as a Jim Rome or some of the other guys that are great in this business. But your take on Stephen A. Yeah,

[Ryan Reynolds]

look Jason, we just talked about this with Adam Schefter and some of the other the Adrian Ward now and the Sham Sharani is like they may have at one point at least performed the duties of a journalist, but they don't anymore. I mean Stephen A. Smith, whether he was good at being a journalist, Jason, or not, he at least actually had the job of one when he was working, working a beat and when he was reporting in Philadelphia. But he certainly isn't that now. I mean, he, he just, he said it. He's on air 22 hours a week. He's spread himself. He's over saturated the market with himself to such a degree. He's got the radio show, the show on ESPN. He's on like SportsCenter at times. He's barely watches these games. I get the sense he only actually watches a game if he's on location for some halftime show during it. Other than that, he's not watching any of these games. How can you masquerade yourself.

[Jason Whitlock]

Busted playing solitaire at the NBA Finals. He doesn't care about the games.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Exactly. And what, look, watching one or two games of a player or 10 games of a player, I mean, to really understand and be dialed into the NBA or any sport, like, you have to watch all of the games, basically. So I. There is no chance, no way that he's doing that at the bare minimum, let alone actually actively cultivating sources, working different levels of stories there. He doesn't qualify by any way, shape or form as a journalist. And it's not like he's the President of the United States and he's just. He was a journalist 20 years ago, so he always gets to be called a journalist. I mean, what are we talking about here? Like, if you're a teacher when you're 25 years old and you're not by the time you're 50, you don't walk around saying you're still a teacher. I don't understand why he, why Will Bond's comments drew such ire from, from Stephen A. I don't understand.

[Jason Whitlock]

It's. It's. Dre, let me go to you before I potentially sidetracked the conversation.

[Dre Baldwin]

I can, I can answer scap's rhetorical question there. It's because it undermines the, the foundation of what Stephen A. Smith is about, at least what he presents himself as. As I'm a journalist, which means I'm not just a podcaster. I'm not just reacting. I'm not just YouTubing. I'm not just a talking head on TV. That journalism piece separates him from everybody else who can say those other things. And that's his way of saying, I'm elevated. Yes, I'm elevated because of my audience and my position, but I'm elevated in terms of my training and what I've done professionally. To where somebody on the Internet. You can't say you're on the same level as me just because you offer opinions like I do. I think it's a ego Thing for Stephen A. Smith, even though ostensibly in the big picture, as you said, it doesn't really matter. When we look up the definition of journalism, it says the collection and editing of news for presentation through media. And traditionally, journalism is about writing. So technically, a lot of people aren't journalists anymore. But what he talks about is the essence of journalism. And what I see here, four specific things, verification over assertion. Stephen A. Smith fails that test. Number two, independence from the outcome. We know from the Kyrie Irving situation, he fails that one. Number three, accountability, sometimes, sometimes not, depending on who it is. And number four, original work versus amplification. So when it comes to these things, a journalist is the woman who was on the Harmony Channel yesterday, Sarah Fields. That's journalism. The woman who Jason had on talking about the Carmelo Anthony trial. That is journalism. Someone who is independently telling you what happened. They don't have a stake in the outcome, in getting you to believe one side or other side of the outcome. And ultimately, what I see as the essence of journalism is who is trying to get to the truth. Let's find out what the truth is here, find out why the truth is the truth. I'm not trying to push you one way or another. You may offer your opinion, but this is the truth that I see, not just let me become the thing. What Mike Wilbon was saying about Stephen A. Is that, Stephen A. You are the show. The news is not the show. You are the show. And when you become the show, you're not a journalist anymore. You have gotten in front of the news and made yourself the news. Therefore, you are unqualified to be a journalist because you can't be both at the same time.

[Jason Whitlock]

Here's the analogy I wanted to make as a. You know, Stephen A. Early in his career, pretended to be a journalist and the whole journalism industry, I lived it. I was there. They laughed at him. They mocked him. There were all kinds of stories about how brutal and primitive his writing skills were and how he was carried at the Philadelphia Inquirer and how he didn't understand even the basic tenants of journalism. Occasionally, Allen Iverson would give him a little bit of news and. And Stephen A. Could say he broke some news. But as a journalist, Stephen A. Was never respected in real time, always considered a DEI hire who hadn't earned it. That's not me talking smack. That's me having lived and witnessed with my own eyes the experience. And now that Stephen A. Has been given enough success, enough money in this new endeavor of being a blowhard or an opinionist, on espn. He now wants to pretend like he was always this great thought leader in this field of sports media and journalism, and any criticism of that goes anywhere near questioning his journalistic bona fides really, really bothers him. It's an insecurity he can't get over. It's like something that you were ridiculed about as a child that even as an adult, you can't get over. And it's still, I guess, like, the short guy that becomes a billionaire and has a bunch of girls or whatever. You can still get him with the short joke because he just hasn't moved past it. That. That's what this screams to me, Dre. And it's. It's. I gotta. The lack of self awareness. It's. And I'll throw myself into this just so I can make it. Sure, I stay humble and transparent with you all, but it's almost like me not realizing that getting wealthy and famous at an early age didn't help me with women, that if I ran around, man, I was always a player. I was always whoever. You know, we had a guy on our basketball team at Ball state named Pierce McCurdy. Me running around acting like I was the same as Paris McCurdy when it. When it came to, you know, hunting with, I could say another guy, but he's married, and I don't. I don't want to start in trouble. But. But if. If I were running around pretending like, yeah, I was the same as them, blah, blah, back before I had any money and any fame, that would be a joke. They would all be sitting around laughing at me, and deservedly so, but instead, I'm just kind of real with myself. That, like, oh, man, I got a lot better looking, and people started saying yes, a lot more once I got rich and famous. STEPHEN A. Once you got rich and famous, people have been lying to you or letting you lie about what type of journalist you are, and it needs to start. It shows a lack of self awareness and immaturity and insecurity that is so obvious and so undermines him. If he were ever. If he ever got comfortable with himself, he'd be a lot less offended by Mike Wilbond. Just telling the truth here. Like, hey, man, you sit on TV and talk about things you don't really know anything about for a living, for a great living, and just leave it at that. You're not connected to any information. You're connected to the fights you start and the opinions you spout. But that's. That's not journalism. And you know, Wilbon graduated from Northwestern's journalism school, and Stephen A. Smith was given a degree from Winston Salem State. And you can tell the difference. I'm going to put a pin in that conversation, and I want to play you guys this clip of Sophie Cunningham that now seems like she's done. She's had her little run here being out front on the transgender issue, and now just wants to go back to playing basketball. Let's play the Sophie side.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I think that there's so much good going on in wnba. I think that basketball is being played at the highest level it's ever been. I think our team in specific, we are breaking history right now with the amount of points that we're scoring on back to. Back to. Back to. Back to back games. I think the Minnesota game, there's just so much distraction. I think the w. WNBA media, all we ever do is cover everything except basketball. And it's like, what. Like, what are we doing? There's so much like, you can talk about other things. I think those are great stories. I think it shows fans, you know, who people are outside of the court. But I also think we got to keep the main thing. The main thing. And I think when it comes to the Minnesota game, I think there is so much distraction. But, like, the matchup between Miles and Kelsey was phenomenal. Our team, I mean, that game in particular was. Was a great game. And so I think that there's a lot to be said, and I'm going to let people just do the same speaking for themselves. But for me, I want to get back to basketball. It's always been about basketball. That interview happened in. In February when I was asked a question. And so for me, I just want to, you know, make sure that it stays. The focus, stays where it should, because people are playing at such a high level. We have probably like three MVPs that could be MVPs on our team specifically. And so that's why I want to do that now. You know, I was asked a question, and that's simply what it was. I just wasn't making a statement to make a statement. And so I was trying to clear the air, and I did that back in February. And so it is what it is. And like I said, we're in the middle of season. I'm going to keep it that we talk about a bunch of distraction. Our team is good, My teammates are good, our locker room is great. And so now we're just here about to prepare for Las Vegas, and that's

[Jason Whitlock]

where our mind is at I actually love these comments. I. I don't think they're a hundred percent transparent, but I love the comments. And her comments there. I think it's the appropriate thing that she took advantage of a situation, rode that wave a little bit, but she's now come to the realization, or been helped to come to the realization, like, hey, man, we're trying to win a championship here, and we can't have all this circus going on, people following you around, and the whole Sophie deal. And she's like, okay, I'm good with that. And. And let's get back to basketball. I. I love these comments from Sophie. Not perfect, but I love them. Steve.

[Steve Berman]

Okay. You know, a lot of people are going to point that finger right back at her, that little iconic thing. And so you stop. Unlike Billy Joel, she did start the fire. Now, she may have inadvertently started the fire. The fire. I think there's a lot of irony to it, but I think that was her way of trying to be very long winded and saying, all right, enough of the Transformer talk. We talked about the Transformers. You guys can all argue about it. We have a league to take care of and games to play. But you have to admit, Jason, she did start this. Now she's trying to end it. She's got to understand it's not that convenient.

[Jason Whitlock]

Scap.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I. Yeah, I mean, I. I have no problem with the comments either way. I don't have any problem with the comments that started it. She, like, she said she was asked a specific, specific question. It's not like she was out there, you know, just taking it upon herself, pontificating, whatever. She's just answering a question, a question that I think most women would. Would support, and back up that messaging. And now essentially, she's saying, like, I'm a basketball player. I play on a basketball team. And by the way, she's not the best player or the second or third best player on that team, so why not? Let's just get back and focus on. On basketball. On to. What is it, the Bill Belichick quote onto Cincinnati. That's basically the way I take. I took those Sophie comments, and I don't have any issues with. With either set of her comments.

[Dre Baldwin]

Dre, a call came in either from the league or from the coach's office that said, hey, enough of this. Let's get back to focusing on basketball. So she. That sounded like she was trying to remember what she needed to say, and in a female way, it was four times longer than it needed to be. But I understand they. She had to do that. They do need to get back to focusing on basketball. She didn't back off her position. I respect the fact she didn't back off where she stood. There's nothing else that really needs to be said about it until or unless a somebody with penis and testicles joins the wnba. So I guess it just is what it is.

[Jason Whitlock]

As she said, I. I think. I think actually Caitlin Clark had a conversation with her. I really do believe that. And. And. And I think it was an appropriate comment. It's. It's. It's what I suggested in a monologue earlier this week, and she took the advice verbatim, I think. Caitlin Clark and Sophie Cunningham. And. And I don't think it's an accident that Sophie there. Dre, said, hey, the thing with Miles and Kelsey Mitchell was amazing in Minnesota, Never a mention of Caitlyn Clark. I think that's intentional. I'm not saying there's bad blood, but when someone, you know, kind of calls you out and says, hey, look, I. I get it, Sophie, you're making a lot of money. We're all making a lot of money. This is great, but it's a little bit unfair to me. I've got to now answer these transgender questions. My. Our games are being told, turned into a circus. And the winning and losing matters more for Caitlin Clark than it does for Sophie Cunningham. Sophie Cunningham's got her looks and she's got her confidence, and she's got a point of view. It's going to make her super successful off the court. Caitlin Clark's only chance of surviving is to win. And. And she. They gotta have more focus on that. Steve, I'm on the. The. The. We're getting the. The audio issues are. Are not. They're a distraction. They're not good. So I'm gonna let you go. You know, we're hearing too much from the chat and everything. That seems to be the focus. So we're gonna let you go. And Dre. And Scap. I'm gonna finish up this final topic with you, with you guys. This is from a few days ago. Yeah. Today is Thursday. I may have saw this on Monday, or maybe I saw it on Friday. I can't remember, but Cam Newton is in a conversation with two women, I believe, and starts talking about his philosophy on going to strip clubs. And I know I'm not calling you guys strip club experts. This is my area of expertise, but you gotta have this conversation with me anyway. I wanna get you all's reaction to Cam Newton here about why he Went to strip clubs or why he goes to strip clubs. Let's play the club. I never went to a strip club for women. I always went to strip clubs for guys.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Really?

[Jason Whitlock]

No homo.

[Sophie Cunningham]

We went to a strip club.

[Jason Whitlock]

No, didn't. But not for women, though. It was always. And I'll explain this merit. I'm a competitor, so I wasn't gonna spend no money if I didn't see nobody else spending money. As soon as I seen somebody thinking that they got money, that's the competitor in me to be like, okay, you spending 5, I'm gonna spend 6. If you gonna spend 10, I'm gonna spend 15, and then we gonna have a rain off. Yeah, I love it because I said, you do that in onyx. So that's my whole thing. It's like, I don't go to strip clubs for. For. For chicks. Even though I. I want decoration, I was a competitor. Still am a competitor. To think like, you think you got it, but you don't got it. I know I'm the expert here, and so. But. But I'm going to let you amateurs try to evaluate this first scap.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, I'll. All I'll say to Cam is it's lucky he's never been at the same strip club at the same time as Little Game James Harden, because nobody makes it rain like that guy. He dropped a million in one night at a strip club. He's got his jersey retired and hanging from the roof of that strip club. But that is. That's a weird take, Jason. I think I'm going to have to defer to your expertise, but I don't. I've been in a couple strip clubs before, and I certainly haven't been looking around to see the guy, what the guys were doing, and how much money they were throwing on the stage. It's kind of a weird take for me from Cam there on that one, Dre.

[Dre Baldwin]

Well, I tend to go to bed early and wake up early, Jason. So I do not go to strip clubs. But I will tell you, strippers in Miami, they do go to the gym. They do go to the grocery store. They do need a place to live. So I do have come across them. But what I will say as far as what Cam said is this is black male culture right here. But what's interesting to me is when he said, I'm a competitor in a woman home, like he was making a point like, that was something smart. I'm a competitor. So this is why I went to the club, so I can see who can Throw away the most money. And now I can talk about it on the podcast. And the two women are sitting there, like, looking at everything he's saying as if he's saying something intelligent and something insightful. This is the issue. And Scat probably wouldn't even think about this, but this is the thing with black males, youngish black males. Cam's probably maybe a little bit around 40, and he's looked at as a leader. He's looked at as a successful person. That's why he's getting interviewed. That's why he's doing shows. Young men, especially those who don't have fathers at home, are listening to people like him. He was successful. He went to college, didn't graduate, but he went to college, got a career, was great in his career, made a bunch of money, has a big name, and is in media now. He was working at espn. And these are the kind of things that he's talking about on interviews. And there are young men who are influenced by this. That's the thing that I have a problem with, the fact that he is even going on and saying this as if it's something that somebody needs to take up from him. And either he doesn't care or he doesn't realize the impact he's having with the things that he's saying. And there's nothing wrong with saying something funny and flippant and throw away. I do it, Scat. I'm sure you do it, Jason. You do it. But there's a time and a place for it, and there's a way that you make sure people understand the disclaimer to what you're saying, as opposed to saying it as if this is, like, substantial information.

[Jason Whitlock]

And I know it. Not that big of a deal, but part of me was like, I watched this and I saw. I said, why did Cam Newton have me on his show? Why did he engage with me, take that risk, get himself in hot water at espn, have the conversation that we had. And. And again, it's not like he should, oh, Whitlock said this or that, and so you should do this or that. But I'm halfway embarrassed that I was trying to positively influence Cam, trying to, hey, man, I think you have more upside as a broadcaster if you do X, Y, and Z. And. And then I see this, and I said, he doesn't really want success. He just. He wants to be controversial, and he wants strippers. And potentially, it's. Cam, I apologize for saying this, but it's. What you say is what provokes me to say this. Maybe there's some guys, you want their interest as well. Because I heard you say, no Diddy, no homo. But it's contradicted by what you said. You're going to strip clubs and thinking about men and thinking. And I don't say that in the, like, most sophomore or childish, like, gotcha moment way. I say it like, hey, man, it's really weird to go to a strip club and to be thinking about, let me go compete with men. And I know the whole drug dealing, black hip hop culture of whoever's got the most money and whoever can go to strip club and show women they got the most money and all that. But now, man, when you have a mother and father like Cam does, has a father that's a minister, this is so much disrespect towards your parents that, that you're this clueless, that, that you're this foolish with money. We've heard Cam say that one of his regrets is he can't treat his children the way that he used to because the money's not coming in like it used to. And so, Cam, there's a way to talk about the mentality that you said you have, but, but you need to be talking about it in a way. I had that mentality, but I've matured enough, I've evolved enough to recognize the stupidity of this mentality and to understand that if this, if this black men are going into strip clubs and there's all these women around and we're thinking about, how can I compete with another black man? Well, that's part of the explanation of how we end up so violently against each other, because we're always locked into a competition with each other rather than a competition with ourselves. Compete against the man in the mirror. How can you perfect the man in the mirror? There's just no wisdom here. And there's such a rejection of any biblical values that his father, I'm sure, tried to pass on to him, that it just, it makes me question everything. Like, Cam, are you have a good heart? Are you someone that's trying. You spend all this money, you say, trying to help kids in football and trying to be a positive influence, but you don't even have the discipline to, to correct what comes out of your mouth and thinks about how that impacts young people. There were, as Dre has said, there's going to be plenty of young people watching, looking at this and say, this is what you do as a black man. When you get athletic success and millions of dollars, you go into strip clubs and compete against other men and see who can burn up the most money. And I burned up a lot of money in strip clubs. I regret all of it. I. I truly do. And. And, you know, hopefully Cam will live long enough to realize he could. He should regret all that. He could have done a lot of positive things rather than compete because we didn't play the full clip. But he acknowledged that, you know, it was drug dealers and other people that he was competing against. Embarrassing commentary. I'll give you guys a final word each on that, and then that'll be the show. Scap. You go first.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah, I. You know, I said I've been in a couple of strip clubs. I typically me like a bachelor party situation getting dragged in or with a group of guys who want to go in, and it's. The whole culture of strip clubs is really bizarre to me. Overall, I never really understood it, and I feel like nothing really ever good comes from going in a strip club. So I feel like when you were talking, it also reminded me that Cam has a lot of children. Not only does he have children, he's got a lot of them. And the money will never be coming in like it was when he was at the top of his. At the top of his sport. So I feel like, really, that interview can be used by young black men as, like, a cautionary tale of what not to do and how to avoid these pitfalls and how to manage your money when you're actually making it better than what Cam Newton has done.

[Dre Baldwin]

Dre, it becomes a cautionary tale. Scap. Only when there is a counterbalance of another man that they respect who they can say, okay, if I'm not going to do that, who. What am I going to do? Who am I going to follow? And that's the challenge that I have with it. And came to do whatever he wants. He's his own man. But if there's going to be a Cam Newton, who's the counterbalance to a Cam Newton that is cool enough and accepted enough in the culture that they'll listen to. That's the challenge. That's the rhetorical question, and that's the issue that I have with what he said. And overall, when it comes to him. Oh, the thing that you said, Jason, about why did he have you on the show? Well, he was just using you for content, Jason. Obviously, that's what he had you on the show for. You are popular. Your name is out there. You were talking about Stephen A. He works with Stephen A. Hey, let me get in between and interview the guy who bashes Stephen A then go on TV with Stephen A. So he just used you for content. And he got what he needed out of it.

[Jason Whitlock]

Thank you, guys. Appreciate you. Thank you, guys for watching. Give me four minutes, I'll be on the Harmony Channel. I've got a take on my interview with Sarah Fields yesterday about Christine Wells. Wansley. Nolan Wells's mother. There's been some additional fallout to that. I got a great monologue on that. Shemeka Michelle will join me to discuss. We'll see you on the Harmony Channel in four minutes. We'll see you back on Fearless tomorrow.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun.

[Jason Whitlock]

An army hung on her every word. My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely suv. An inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Tonight we feast.

[Jason Whitlock]

An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Pick up.

[Jason Whitlock]

Fees may apply.