← Federalist Radio Hour
Federalist Radio Hour
Chris Bray On Chaos In Minneapolis And The Future Of The Culture War
00:44:37
On this episode of The Federalist Radio Hour, Chris Bray, a journalist, former soldier, and author of the https://chrisbray.substack.com/, joins Federalist Senior Elections Correspondent Matt Kittle to explain what Minneapolis provocateurs'...
Loading summary
Transcript52 lines
- [00:18]
A
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the Federalist and your experience Sherpa on today's quest for knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio@the federalist.com follow us on XDRLST. Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast and of course to the premium version of our website as well. Our guest today is Chris Bray, journalist, historian, former soldier, whiskey, enthusiastic and the guy behind the tell me how this ends substack. Always an interesting and informative read. Chris, thank you so much for joining us on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
- [01:04]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [01:06]
A
I'll jump right to the the core of our conversation here. Now, I don't want to put you on the spot, but can you tell me this? How does it end? I ask, I ask you that as a guy who, you know, who takes a look at the issues of the day and oftentimes projects and see where this is going. But you also look into the past and I can tell you the America today. And we are people of about the same age range. This is not the America I grew up in in so many places. It is a strange land and I am an absolute stranger. So from Minneapolis and you know, the home of George Floyd and now Renee Good, you know, from Minnesota and its Somali welfare scandal to California where there's plenty of scandal going on there, to the death culture of, of the left in this country, including the assassination of Charlie Kirk, of course, just a few months back. How does this thing end?
- [02:21]
B
That's, that's a big box to unpack. But the first thing I want to say about it is when you feel like you're living in death cult decline America that you don't recognize that you didn't grow up in. Turn off the computer, turn off the television, get in your car.
- [02:39]
A
Yeah.
- [02:40]
B
Go elsewhere. There's I think we have now performative America, media America and America America. And they're not the same place. And if you go out into the country, I live in Los Angeles and I have to escape it sometimes. So I just get in the car and get out and like over the weekend and through Monday, I went up camping in northern Central California and I drove through a town called Taft, which is a big oil producing town, up Highway 33, which is called the petroleum highway in California, and then turned and then went up through a big cattle ranching region. And when you drive through, I drove a couple hundred miles through oil and cattle country in California, in the bluest and most captured of states, and went camping with normal people. And through all of that, I never saw any sign of all of the total insanity that has descended on us. And I spent. I was going camping with some people who didn't show up the first night I went up there. So I stayed in a hotel in a little town that's majority Latino with a very large population. I looked this up. I sat in Coalinga, California and said, how many people here are citizens? Because the main street through Coalinga is lined with these little shops that say there's notary public here, there's an immigration lawyer here, we can do your immigration paperwork for you. So I said, sitting in that town, there are a whole lot of people here who aren't citizens and there are a whole lot of people here who have to be worried about deportations and ICE showing up and how many protests, how many no ICE here signs did I see? How much chaos and disorder did I see in the streets of a small agricultural town, sort of in a pivotal point right between oil producing California and cattle producing California? How much chaos and misery did I see in this town where a whole bunch of people aren't from here and a whole bunch of people have to be thinking about ICE and worrying about it? I saw no chaos, I saw no disorder, I saw no misery. It's a peaceful, quiet, small town.
- [05:04]
A
Chris, is that because the leftist, the Marxist, Marxist won't, they won't come there because the, the population doesn't allow the, the Latinos there to be called Latinx.
- [05:19]
B
That could explain a lot. You know, it's fascinating. I've been watching for a long time for the, the, this would open another kettle of fish. But watching for the ICE raids to show up in force in agricultural country in California and so far I don't see that happening. And I think what's happening is that ICE is going where leftists perform against ICE like you, you. The more you say, like Jacob Fry now says daily on, on social media, I demand that ICE leave. The more you do that, the more you create heat that draws ICE to you and that, that the more resistance they face, the more they send people there. So I think there are places all over the country, even places where citizenship and deportation is a genuine issue and people are really thinking about it, where there is no chaos and misery at all and people are just living normal lives. And if you find yourself, and I think we all do this, you and I both, we make our living from media and politics and looking at all of the show that's going on and I descend into a, something like a state of despair. Like, my God, how can, how can we be this crazy? And I never find that turning off the television, turning off the computer and getting in the car doesn't fix it. All over this country, the country you grew up in, still exists. It's just not on television.
- [07:02]
A
I think that is great advice for, for all of us. But I still want to go back to a time when I was playing pitfall on Atari 2600 and, and watching the, the NBC Thursday night lineup, which included Cheers, of course. But it's a different world. My, my beloved sainted mother used to say before she passed several years ago, all the, the people that I used to watch in the movies and hear on the radio are dead. And of course, I'm getting to that point in my life now. That's a natural thing. But this performative thing that you're talking about from the left that has sowed the seeds of so much chaos is not natural. It is absolutely what they are going after. I mean, you don't have to look too far back to see what was happening. And Trump won. Same kind of thing. So do you see the chaos ramping up even to 2020, BLM style leftist chaos this year, an election year?
- [08:15]
B
Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. But I think you have to notice what's happening with all of it. I think you have to notice. I'll tell this story. I'll say it this way. Go Google or go use the search function in X. Go look for Democrats demanding that senior leaders in the administration, cabinet officials in the administration resign. Go look for it. Go look at the number of times it's happened. They started 10 minutes after the inauguration. Pete Hegseth has been ruined, Absolutely ruined. He's finished. There's no way he can remain in office. He's been, he's destroyed. He's been destroyed a dozen times now and he's still there and he's still extremely effective. He's still doing his job and doing it well. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Has been destroyed over and over and over again. He's been absolutely ruined. He's had no choice but to resign and give up over and over and over again. And actually, I googled up a specific example this morning. I must open this and look at it because I think it's so telling. December Representative Delia Ramirez, one of the less important members of Congress in a body of people who are not important, one of the least important but not important people in December, Delia Ramirez posted on X. She said, kristi Noem, you have three choices. You can quit today or Donald Trump can fire you today, or I'm going to have you impeached and removed.
- [10:03]
A
Wow, that's, that's, that's a lot of threatening language there.
- [10:07]
B
You're done. And then Kristi Gnome completely ignored her and just went on doing her job and she's still there. And, and you're done. You're finished. You have no choice. Actually, she, she did have a choice and she just went on doing her job. I think that's where we are. I think we're at this point at which the performative reaction is going to get more and more insane and, and clearly is getting more and more insane. And they are now saying basically daily like, you're finished. We demanded, we order you to stop. And you just don't. You just ignore them and go on.
- [10:49]
A
And thank God that they do. I mean, because, I mean, take, take a look at this guy. We're. I, I think before you and I started our conversation, we were getting some word that the ICE officer who was truly struck by a weaponized vehicle. It becomes a weapon when you accelerate and drive into an individual. That ICE Watch activist and alleged domestic terrorist Renee Good was driving that vehicle. We've learned that this gentleman, at least according to some sources being reported today and some of your finest corporate media outlets, that he suffered internal injuries from that. So he, he, he must have, something must have happened in that, that situation. But of course, you could set your watch by the performance that came out of that. You wrote a great piece that's up now on your substack. It's called the Fall of Soy Gan. I want you to explain that headline here in just a bit. But the cdc, as we used to say in newspapers, to speak through the masks. The point of the performance, you write, is the performance, like art that exists only to comment on the meaning of art. You tie this all into what we've been talking about. Dan, you say this in, in very direct terms. The min. The Minneapolis Circle Jerk is producing endless video of middle aged white leftist women doing the same performance endlessly. Like there are a thousand pieces of footage that all show the same moment with different faces. And then you point to one where your reader can click on, come back when you're done. And then you go on to talk about the performance. But I think that really sums it up. But first and foremost, where did you get the Fall of Soy Gon?
- [12:53]
B
I stole it shamelessly. And I, and I credit the person I stole it from on the post, the. The leftist journalist Aaron Rupar lives in Minneapolis. And he posted very dramatically on X that his wife and children were evacuating as the city falls to ice.
- [13:12]
A
Oh God.
- [13:13]
B
And some totally random dude whose username is Paul said it's the fall of soycon. And it resonated with me. So I thought it was the most brilliant thing and so I stole it as a headline. This performative idea that everything's falling apart and everything's going bad and we have to flee. And it's crisis and chaos.
- [13:42]
A
And it's.
- [13:42]
B
Crisis and chaos that people on the left are creating and then pretending to be afraid of. So the fall of soygon refers to the idea that we've arrived at a moment of collapse, but the collapse is totally contrived. Regime change sounds great, but what's the real story in Venezuela? The Watchdog on Wall street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. Maduro's captured, but his entire apparatus is still there. Are they truly liberated? Will the US have to cut a deal with whoever's left even after this.
- [14:25]
A
Operation, whether it's happening in D.C. or down on Wall street, it's affecting you financially, be informed. Check out the Watchdog on Wall street.
- [14:31]
B
Podcast with Chris Murkowski on Apple, Spotify.
- [14:33]
A
Or wherever you get your podcasts. And hence, you know, to do a little bit of the Alfred E. Newman here in. In truth, what me worry. I mean, why should we worry about this? With, with this caveat, I would say I have some dear friends in, in Minneapolis. They're pretty liberal folks, just like many of the denizens, maybe most of the denizens of Minneapolis in 2020, they did flee their city because they lived in an area of the city that was literally on fire. And, and there were people getting hurt and killed there on a regular basis. Not to say that Minneapolis does not have, thanks to its leftist leadership, you know, a constant train of murders and violent crimes. But this was a special time, a of course, in the Black Lives Matter movement for violent crimes. And so they fled. They got out of there. They could, not everybody could. But here we are, fast forward almost six years later and these two Minneapolis residents I see are putting on Facebook, you know, ice, get out. How horrible this is. You know, you're destroying the city. And I guess that's the point. The performance is being watched closely by people who vehemently vote. And so what does that mean for 2026. And the majority of these Republicans, many of them very unimportant, as you noted, many, many of them unimportant members of Congress.
- [16:25]
B
Yeah, I, I think what we're going to see, and I think we're already seeing it certainly in California. I, I don't know if I've ever talked about who was a member of the California State Senate who, during a legislative hearing a few years ago, they were hearing a bill about one of the infinite number of bills about transgender children that consume the California legislature, because nothing is more important than transgender children. And Scott Wilkes said as a serving member of the state legislature, that my message to California families is get out. We've lost. There's nothing that we apparently can do about it. And he said, as soon as I finish my term in the state Senate, I'm going to move to America. And I think what's coming, I think when you live in Minneapolis and you go through cycles of riot season, like the snow coming, riots are here again, again. I think that the sort, the sorting of America into red and blue is going to accelerate and intensify. I think we can't live with each other anymore. And I think that that sort is going to produce considerable decline and decay in some of the places where productive people are fleeing. I think we have a class of people who generate all of their self worth, all of their sense of themselves and what their lives mean from this performance of, of doing things like standing in a circle around ice agents and screaming insults and abuse at them. We have a performance class that's drawn to places where other people who are from the performance class go to live. And I think that I, Kurt Schlichter, calls, uses the term militant normals. I think normals can't live around that and are going to become increasingly militant about not living around it. So I think, I think the story of Minneapolis is going to be a story of decline. We'll see if that's true.
- [18:42]
A
Our guest today and leave will leave indeed. Our guest today is Chris Bray, journalist, historian, former soldier, whiskey, enthusiastic, and the guy behind the Tell me How this Ends sub stack. It's a great read. As I said, it's got equal shot of a funny and sobering writing as well as you constantly, Chris, take a look at where we stand in this country and in this culture. So with, with all of that said, and the performance goes on and the performance will only intensify. You mentioned California and your lawmaker there who put his hands up in the air and said that's it. Turn the lights out. It's over for conservatives. Well, then, interesting, something funny happens that conservatives, Republicans are winning more seats. They're, they're, they're having more of an impact. There is some, some success to be noted from conservatives in California, and that really has come out over the last several years from the decline that you're talking about in San Francisco and, and Los Angeles and a lot of other cities, blue cities in blue California. Is that indicative of where we're heading? And I say that in context of the wave that came in 2024. Is that sustainable even in a traditionally difficult time for the majority party, the party in control in US Politics, California.
- [20:37]
B
Is going to become a very interesting test case. I was, I was hoping that Prop 50, which allowed the legislature to override our redistricting commission and create new districts that are very, very favorable to the Democratic Party and that will probably. Allow even fewer Republicans to be elected to the House of Representatives from California. I was hoping that California would wake up a little bit and notice that Prop 50 was destruction and decline. But it passed very, very comfortably. My father was a. My father's no longer with us, but he was a Republican Party activist in the Bay Area for a long time. He, he walked precincts with Republican candidates in places like Berkeley and Oakland. So he had, he had a shell like a turtle. You, you couldn't. He had the thickest possible skin. But even he eventually gave up and fled. We talk about, in California, we talk about, Imagine how much better the state would be if we had a Republican Party. We essentially don't have one. And we have a bunch of candidates. We have a bunch of candidates in the state legislature who are just dreadful, dreadful. It's hard to watch them speak because they're so stupid and they can barely form sentences. And they, they passed shockingly stupid and evil legislation, and they represent fairly purple districts where, where they win by three or four points. And I've, like many people, have begged the California GOP to go hard on some of those districts and shout for the best possible candidates they can find and pour some money into those districts, and it never happens. I don't think California is near term redeemable. But what happens in California is that while the legislature and all of the lower offices just keep filling up with Democrats over and over again, occasionally, occasionally, we managed to flip the governor's office. And I used to make fun of Arnold Schwarzenegger and say, God, what a terrible governor he is and not really producing any results. But many years of Gavin Newsom have Convinced me that I may not have noticed how much Arnold Schwarzenegger was holding back the flood. I think we have a chance at flipping the governor's office this year. I think the legislature will remain a disaster. The state legislature will remain a disaster. And I warn America that we are going to send the biggest idiots in the country to Congress. We have already sent you two of the dumbest senators in the history of the country, and we're just going to pile on. I very much wonder if our very worst state legislature, state legislator Scott Wiener, is going to win a seat in the House of Representatives. I don't think there's a political redemption coming for California soon.
- [24:01]
A
Really, that's, you know, we hear from the California Republicans, the young Republicans, hey, people are paying attention. You know, they're living this disaster. And they may not be conservatives, but they're no longer in line. A growing number of Californians are getting out the far left line. And here is the problem. Even if that is true, and it sounds like, you know, even, even when you have that, you have representatives who certainly don't represent the interest of those, those, those folks who are soon to be, many of them refugees. But here's the problem, Chris. When they leave their Marxist enclave in San Francisco and Oakland and Los Angeles, wherever they go to red states and they say they leave because they're tired of the high taxes, they're tired of the crime, and then they come in and either they run for office or they elect people who bring the same misery with them. How do we stop that awfulness?
- [25:18]
B
I mean, I think certainly from the example of my parents who fled California for Arizona. A lot of the people who flee California are not blue voters, although may the heavens grant mercy on us. Some of them are, and I apologize to America for the cancer were spreading across the country. California is the largest, holds the largest group of Republican voters in the country. Donald Trump got 4 million votes out of California each time he ran. If I remember the numbers correctly, there are a lot of Republicans here, but the state has something like 38 million people now, so they just get overwhelmed. If you drive along the eastern edge of California, you're driving along ranching country and through rural communities that are very, very conservative, where the vote is 70 or 80% Republican. But for example, if you go to Modoc county up in the northeastern corner of the state, which is a giant cattle ranching area, they're very, very conservative voters. And they have 9,000 people in the entire county. There are blocks in San Francisco that outvote Modoc County. So there's just a wait. This is happening in Washington, it's happening in Oregon, it's happening in California. That enormous conservative communities are governed by Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. And so I, I. A lot of the people who are fleeing are very conservative people, but they're not. They're not all. And I am so sorry. I don't know how to solve that problem.
- [27:17]
A
But you know how this ends.
- [27:20]
B
I wish I knew how this ends. I think it ends nationally. I think California is facing a lot more decline before any kind of reality comes back, because so many people have fled, because so many red voters have just given up and left the state, and it produces greater and greater imbalance. But I think it ends nationally. It's been a few years since I did this, but I wrote a series of posts about the psychology of Jonestown.
- [27:52]
A
Sure.
- [27:53]
B
Which started in as the People's temple and with a very large group of people listening to Jim Jones drinking the koolaid, some people leaving and some people leaving and some people leaving. And People's temple moved a bunch of times, and each time they moved, they shed a few people. And as the. The cult got smaller and smaller, the remaining people became more and more fervent, to the point that at the end, there were only a few hundred people left, many of whom didn't question the final order. I think what happens in places like California is that as sensible people flee, as Scott Wilk moves to America, the people who remain buy it more and more and more and say, like I, I absolutely fascinated to see the Donald Trump is literally Adolf Hitler thing still going.
- [28:53]
A
You're right.
- [28:54]
B
Jason Stanley, the philosophy professor who fled Yale and moved to Canada to escape the American Hitler, has a new interview with Mother Jones this week. You know, banging on, still going, still saying, no, no, no, no, no. Look, the evidence is fascism is rising in America and it's rising in Argentina, and it's rising in Russia, and it's rising in Germany, and everybody's a fascist, and it's just so shockingly stupid that I can't imagine he's still convincing himself of it, but he is. So I think a smaller and smaller group of people become more and more insane and performative and outside the blue zones, outside the places like Minneapolis and Los Angeles where the cult is becoming more and more concentrated and incapable of thinking. I think that people will learn what the Trump administration has learned, which is, you know, as leftist members of Congress say, kristi Noemus Dunn, I demand that you resign. They just ignore Them. Yeah, I think we're getting to the point where we're going to have a very, very loud and insane American political left and a growing portion of the country will just ignore them. I've thought this week a lot about the clusters in Minneapolis that you see whenever ICE makes an arrest and 20 or 30 or 100 people surround them and scream abuse at them and blow whistles and try to create chaos and misery and try to produce a response, and the Border Patrol officers and the ICE agents just ignore them and go on with their work. I think that's America in the next few years. I think that is a metaphor for the entire country. A ring of crazy people screaming and making incoherent noise around a country that more and more just ignores them and gets on with its work. And I think there's a bunch of, a bunch of good news. I think we're seeing some significant economic growth. Venezuela is releasing political prisoners. The regime in Iran appears to be collapsing. Let's hope that happens. Yes, we see some good things happening against what seems to be, maybe this is true. We'll see what seems to be increasingly impotent opposition that can only make crazy noises while the country just ignores them.
- [31:46]
A
Well, I have to tell you that after about a half hour of our conversation, I started out feeling pretty grim about things. I felt like your senator who wanted to flee California for America. I get it. You know, I, I, I'm talking to you right now in a deep red state, and I'm feeling okay about things. But I look around the world and I say, my God, what's, what's happening. But basically, what this boils down to, you hear, the left has said this over and over again. There are two Americans. And of course, what they mean is that, you know, they're, there are the privileged and the entitled and all of these sorts of things, of course, never looking at their privilege and their, their entitlements, certainly. But I don't think it's the two Americas blue and red anymore, although that's certainly part of it. I think the two Americas are reason and insanity. And what you're telling us is that you believe reason will ultimately prevail.
- [32:56]
B
So Helen Andrews wrote this piece that got a lot of attention about the feminization of American institutions. And when I say this, I have to immediately follow up and say, in California, all of the most sensible and reasonable activists who've been fighting against the crazy institutions have been women. When we talk about feminization, we're not saying men versus women. All Women versus all men. But we're talking about feminine approaches to problems versus masculine approaches to problems. How do I feel about this? Everyone should cooperate and we should all be friends and everyone should be on board. We should have shared identity and shared values. The feminine values of let's all get along, let's all cooperate. The feminine value of policing status instead of making an argument versus masculine values of. I have to refer to the video. It's not about the nail. Has everyone seen it's not about the nail? I think that's important that you see a guy on a couch saying, well, honey, I think you're having a headache because of the nail. And the woman says, it's not about the nail. Why can't you just validate my feelings instead of doing all of this rational stuff about trying to find solutions? And, and at the end of the video, you realize she has a nail sticking in her forehead. I think, and I don't mean all men and all women, I think that, that the conflict between rational problem solving behavior, and I will use the word hysterical, hysterical, performative conflict, I don't mean all men and all women is that conflict in America. And it's very, very telling, very, very telling that when you watch the video from Minneapolis and you see crowds of people surrounding ICE officers, they tend to be middle aged white women, enormous crowds of middle aged white women who disproportionately are on SSRIs all over the country. They are by far by percentage, the largest population consuming SSRIs. I think we are in a culture war about where you begin a discussion, how you begin talking about here is a problem, what do we do about it? And there's an approach that says let's figure out the causes and let's apply the Trump administration approach. Let's figure out what the problem is and apply solutions to it and see what works. Versus a deeply performative set of, of symbol invocations about hate has no home here. I, I just coexist. Blows my mind. I. By the way, one of the ice, one of the, the SUV's the ICE officers were driving around in Minneapolis, they quite brilliantly put a coexist sticker on the back.
- [36:15]
A
That's good.
- [36:18]
B
I think we're having a culture war over starting points. How do you begin to talk about what's happening? And I think the one that focuses on logic and, and fact and, and solving problems is the one that prevails, though it probably has to prevail against a great deal of noise.
- [36:42]
A
Ah, a great deal. A deal of Noise in. Indeed. And I'm wondering, is the rallying cry from that middle aged white woman protester, is their new motto drive, baby, drive? And if it is, what does that mean for the future of this country?
- [37:05]
B
It does seem to be. And the next thing she said after the shooting, we have video now of her reaction and the thing she shouted at the ICE agent who shot her wife, her supposed wife. They apparently didn't even get married.
- [37:24]
A
Yeah.
- [37:26]
B
Think about her saying this, because I think this is what's happening in America. She said to them, why are you using real bullets? Mm.
- [37:38]
A
Yeah.
- [37:39]
B
There was an essay at the Substack Bad Cattitude recently about the problem of word people. And I am a word person. I've spent my career in media and academia, except for some years in the Army. But I've spent my adult life working with words and living inside of this, being one of these people. I see the point. There are people who spend their lives doing things, making things, fixing things, putting their hands on things, who start with a perception of reality that has to do with physics and what is. And there are people who spend their lives dealing in symbols. Robert Reich called them symbol analysts. I think, yes, I believe that was the term. The future is in symbol analysts. The culture and the economy will be increasingly focused on symbol analysts. People who work with representations of things, not with things themselves.
- [38:48]
A
Do you mean like Renee Goode's poetry?
- [38:51]
B
Like Renee Goode's just extraordinary poetry. And if you hadn't haven't read any, you should, you should Google some up. But I think we have a set of people who believe that life is symbols and that symbols should prevail and that saying, saying good symbols against bad symbols should work. And they find themselves saying things like, why are you using real bullets? They find themselves slamming into physical reality in ways that are increasingly untenable. And I think. I think that divergence, that cycle of conflict, that conflict between word people and thing, people making things people, is going to get more and more clear and more and more dire. And I think that the word people can't prevail because they sort of walk through life thinking that the words they say, the lawn sign they put up in their. In their yard, the hate has no home here. Immigrants and refugees, welcome sign has a kind of magic effect and will shape reality. Like a member of Congress telling Kristi Noem, you, you're done. You have. You have to choose between resigning immediately or having me remove you, and then it doesn't happen. What do they do next? They don't do anything next because they, they think that because they only know the magic incantation. I said it, so it should happen. And I think their, their magical incantations are failing them. I think they're working less and less. Well, it's, it's. You have to notice this week of all weeks, whenever you watch and there are, there must be hundreds of videos now, if not thousands of videos out of Minneapolis of ice making arrests. And they're inevitably surrounded by groups that shout at them. What are you doing? Get your hands off him. Let him go.
- [40:51]
A
Yeah, right.
- [40:52]
B
Let him go. Let him go. Let him go. Over and over and over and over again like a magical incantation. And at some point, you have to notice that never in the history of crowds shouting, let him go. Have they ever let him go. So the performance, the, the incantations, the, the invocation of words against the physical reality of what ice is doing against the physical reality of the real world just doesn't work. It doesn't ever work, and they just keep doing it. So what, what does that imply about where it ends?
- [41:40]
A
Yeah, and I guess we'll, we'll conclude there concretely, in the real world, what does that imply? Because on the other side of that as well, while you have Renee Good's wife, or kind of wife, wife and name only, I don't know, saying, I can't believe you're using real bullets. You do have. Members of the left were growing increasingly violent and using real bullets on political leaders that they are now literally at war with. So I guess that's the final question. And I think you've answered it over and over again. I think you answer it oftentimes in, in your columns, and that is, you know, we are seeing a. A collision point here. But your ultimate takeaway on how this ends is that eventually, reason, rationality, the real world will prevail because it always does and it always has.
- [42:49]
B
To correct physical reality votes last. Things that exist in the real world vote last. And you can chant and do magical invocations as much as you want. Reality shows up and reality wins. Reality is showing up in California where we talk all the time about how utterly superior we are and how much better the California way is. But you can look at the state and see the decline. You can see the physical infrastructure falling apart. The real world just shows up.
- [43:30]
A
Follow the science, right? Follow the science. Thanks to my guest today, Chris Bray. Journalist, historian, former soldier, whiskey enthusiast, and the guy behind the Tell Me how this end substack. Where can, where can our fine listeners find this fine publication, Chris Bray.substack.com or.
- [43:54]
B
You can just Google up Chris Bray, tell me how this ends.
- [43:58]
A
Excellent. And of course, you can read his good work. Chris Bray's good work from time to time at the Federalist. You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.
- [44:26]
B
Voice of reason.