Federalist Radio Hour

Episode: Deportation, Due Process, And Deference To The American People
Date: April 17, 2025
Host: Matt Kittle (Senior Elections Correspondent, The Federalist)
Guest: John O’Connor (Former Federal Prosecutor, Author of "Postgate," Host of Mysteries of Watergate Podcast)

Overview

This episode dives into the growing friction between the executive and judicial branches over issues of deportation, due process for illegal immigrants, and the power struggle stemming from activist judiciary trends. Host Matt Kittle and guest John O’Connor dig into the constitutional, historical, and cultural reasons behind this friction, explore media complicity, and discuss what’s at stake for democratic governance and American sovereignty.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Activist Judiciary and Executive Power

(03:36–07:48)

• Kittle kicks off by criticizing what he sees as an unprecedented abuse of power by federal judges who overrule executive orders, especially regarding immigration and DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) policies.
• O’Connor asserts we’re not seeing “intentionally rogue” judges, but rather the outcome of decades of judicial activism that’s now unchecked. He labels this trend as “well-meaning” but ultimately harmful, noting that “the perfect is the enemy of the good” when it comes to due process for illegal immigrants.
• O’Connor explains:

“You can only extend so many rights to so many... marginalized people like illegal immigrants that the whole body politics suffers.” (04:31)

2. Due Process and Illegal Immigration

(07:48–09:45)

• O’Connor distinguishes between immediate deportation at the border (where due process is limited) and cases where immigrants have remained in the country, creating a situation where activists demand more procedural protections.
• He argues:

“There really isn’t much in the way of due process due him [the illegal immigrant caught at the border]... The law does not concern itself with trifles, and we have trifling matters here of due process, in my opinion.” (05:53)

3. Judge Shopping and Nationwide Injunctions

(09:45–14:52)

• Both agree that legal maneuvers (e.g., avoiding habeas corpus filings in Texas to get more sympathetic judges in D.C.) undermine the proper administration of justice.
• Kittle cites recent bipartisan concern about “judge shopping” and excessive use of nationwide injunctions, referencing efforts in Congress to curb these practices.
• O’Connor contends that such practices essentially turn judges into policy makers:

“Now he declares a nationwide injunction... now he’s setting policy.” (12:52)

4. The Supreme Court’s Role and Needed Restraint

(12:38–14:52)

• O’Connor stresses the Supreme Court should provide clear guardrails for when, or if, lower courts can issue nationwide injunctions so that “lower courts get the message.”
• Critiques the hero status granted to lower-court judges for blocking Trump-era policies, arguing it feeds the activism.

5. Constitutional Intent and Immigration Law

(14:52–18:51)

• Debate over whether illegal immigrants are entitled to due process under U.S. law.
• O’Connor’s view:

“Their due process rights are very slight and slim because of what they’re doing... I don’t think the original intent of the framers... was to do that.” (16:16)

• He asserts that granting individual hearings to millions of illegal immigrants is a distortion of constitutional intent.

6. Executive Actions—Obama, Trump, and Biden

(21:52–25:37)

• O’Connor analyses how presidents have stretched their executive powers (e.g., DACA under Obama, mass entries under Biden) and argues that judicial branch double standards prevent subsequent administrations from reversing course.

“An activist executive can create rights, but a conservative executive cannot undo them. And that doesn’t seem to make sense.” (24:31)

7. Media’s Role as the "Fourth Estate"

(28:12–31:26, 33:00–42:31)

• Kittle and O’Connor critique what they see as a complicit media that advocates for certain narratives rather than reporting facts—specifically, amplifying stories sympathetic to illegal immigrants while ignoring crimes or abuses linked to left-aligned administrations.
• O’Connor connects this trend to the legacy of Watergate, where the media’s pursuit of stardom and activism has led to systematic bias:

“Rather than calling balls and strikes and not being judgmental at all, but just reporting facts and letting people decide for themselves, they’ve tried to shape public policy and public perceptions.” (36:46)

• He argues this has resulted in misinformation shaping justice, policy, and public perceptions, especially visible in the Russian collusion narrative.
• O’Connor further complains:

“If you have an unbiased media, we would not be having these convulsions in our country.” (39:50)

8. Accountability and the Path Forward

(41:06–45:58)

• Kittle points out the lack of accountability for those responsible for actual crimes while the judiciary increasingly criminalizes executive actions, especially conservative ones.
• O’Connor brings historical perspective, referencing Jefferson, Jackson, and Lincoln’s fights for executive rights, comparing them to Trump’s current situation.
• He calls for more “judicial deference” and warns against “constant manacles forged by the judiciary.” (44:20)
• On deference to the will of the people, O’Connor says:

"There should be some deference to me as I’m trying to do their will. And that’s what’s happening here. You have an elected president... one of the main reasons we elected him was to clear up this immigration problem, which is a serious, serious problem." (45:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The perfect is the enemy of the good... Just as not practical. And it’s not really required... by the Constitution."
  – John O'Connor (05:21)

• "You’re setting policy. And if you’re dealing with things like due process where there’s not a written statute, it’s his opinion about what due process is."
  – John O'Connor (13:25)

• "An activist executive can create rights, but a conservative executive cannot undo them. And that doesn’t seem to make sense."
  – John O'Connor (24:31)

• "Rather than calling balls and strikes... they’ve tried to shape public policy and public perceptions."
  – John O'Connor (36:46)

• "If you have an unbiased media, we would not be having these convulsions in our country."
  – John O'Connor (39:50)

• "There should be some deference to me as I’m trying to do [the people’s] will."
  – John O’Connor, referencing Andrew Jackson (45:16)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:36 – Opening discussion on “rogue” judiciary and judicial activism
• 04:30 – Impact of extending due process to illegal immigrants
• 09:45 – Judge shopping, nationwide injunctions, and procedural manipulation
• 12:38 – Lower courts shaping national policy, Supreme Court’s needed intervention
• 14:52 – Are illegal immigrants entitled to due process under the Constitution?
• 21:52 – Executive orders, DACA, and double standards between administrations
• 28:12 – Media activism and the roots in Watergate
• 36:46 – Watergate’s legacy and harm of activist media
• 41:06 – Lack of accountability and what history teaches about executive-judicial conflict
• 44:47 – The importance of deference to the will of the American people

Tone and Language

The episode maintains an urgent, combative, and historically rooted conversation, with both host and guest adopting a patriotic/nationalist lens. O'Connor provides legal insights seasoned with historical anecdotes and direct criticisms of media and judiciary trends. Kittle’s tone is often incredulous at perceived institutional bias, keeping the dialogue lively and engaging for listeners skeptical of mainstream narratives.

For listeners seeking a sharp, skeptical take on immigration law, judicial activism, and media ethics—with a strong adherence to constitutional originalism—this episode delivers a detailed and historically nuanced discussion.