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- [00:00]
Stuart Whitson
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- [00:38]
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- [01:24]
Stuart Whitson
Foreign.
- [01:31]
Matt Kittle
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections Correspondent at the Federalist and your experience Sherpa on today's quest for knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio the federalist.com follow us on XDRLST. Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast and of course to the premium version of our website. As our guest today is Stuart Whitson, senior Director of Federal affairs at the foundation for Government Accountability. We discussed today the age of accountability in government. Stuart, thanks so much for joining us on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
- [02:13]
Stuart Whitson
Thanks for having me on.
- [02:14]
Matt Kittle
Am I overstating that the age of accountability in government is are we making America American government at least accountable again?
- [02:24]
Stuart Whitson
I think that's absolutely right. I think as President Trump would characterize it, we are definitely entering a golden era for America when it comes to accountability, the Doge effort. Obviously, a lot of the things that Doge is uncovering already are some things that had already surfaced. There's some things that other people had flagged in the past, but it just was never able to get the attention and energy behind it to actually not just identify the wasteful spending, but do something about it. And so I think that's what's so great about the Doge effort, about President Trump's leadership. Behind it is things are actually getting done and Americans love it.
- [03:04]
Matt Kittle
Yeah. The polling does show it indeed, that Americans, as opposed to what the left, the Democrat Party, is saying that Americans are beside themselves. They're, they're tearing their clothes over federal bureaucrats being sent packing, that foreign aid to absolutely criminally insane programs is being ended. Now, you spoke before the, the Doge Committee last month. It was the House Oversight Committee's subcommittee on Delivering on Government Efficiency. And you said some interesting things. First and foremost, I always love, you know, the facts, the updates of what Doge is doing, the Department of Government Efficiency. But more than anything, you said the next target should be Medicaid, noting that one out of every five dollars is an improper payment, costing U.S. taxpayers more than a trillion dollars perhaps over the next 10 years. How did we get here?
- [04:18]
Stuart Whitson
Well, I think there's kind of a confluence of factors that came together. But if you want to go back, it would really have started during the Obama administration. And so basically what they did is they tried to transform what had historically been, you know, a program, Medicaid program for the truly needy. What they've tried to do is push as many able bodied people as they can onto the program to kind of create a type of government dependency. And so under the Obama administration, what we saw is new regulations that basically made it harder for states to kick people off the program who are ineligible for the program. And so what does that mean? It's people that either earn too much money to be on the program, people that maybe have died, people that may be trying to collect the program in multiple states. And so what they did is they put these requirements said states can't check more than once per year to make sure people are still eligible. And they suspended some other rules. Fast forward, Trump administration came in, obviously knocked those rules down, tried to bring some accountability back to the program. Then Covid hit. And so when Covid hit, massive amounts of money went in to a number of different programs to try to help because basically the government pushed a lot of people out of the workforce overnight. And so that push, a lot of people got pushed into the program that maybe shouldn't have been in the program because states primarily weren't able to monitor the programs and make sure only eligible people were there. But then once they got in the program and Biden came into office, then he exacerbated the problem through a number of actions. One of the biggest things he did was a thing called the Medicaid streamlining rule. And so basically, in a nutshell, what that rule did is it created this new requirement for the states that prohibited things like in person or phone interviews to verify that people are actually eligible for the benefit.
- [06:19]
Matt Kittle
Amazing.
- [06:20]
Stuart Whitson
It also did this. It required these, quote, reconsideration periods for people that are deemed ineligible. So even when the states would identify people that they knew didn't belong on the program, the Biden administration would require them to keep them on the program anyway.
- [06:36]
Matt Kittle
Wow.
- [06:37]
Stuart Whitson
To make, to do a reconsideration to make sure that was accurate. But get this all this together. The Congressional Budget Office, which actually has a record of underestimating the cost of government programs, but even they estimate that that rule alone cost taxpayers $224 billion over the next decade.
- [06:57]
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- [07:57]
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- [08:59]
Matt Kittle
That is criminal waste. That is criminal abuse of what this program was intended for. Is, isn't this just really. I'm asking a question I think I know the answer to, but isn't this really just the attempt of the Obama ites and the, the Biden folks to socialize medicine, make a nationalized socialized medicine system?
- [09:25]
Stuart Whitson
Absolutely. I mean, there's no other explanation as to why they would try to push again, able bodied people onto a program that's designed to benefit truly needy folks, elderly, disabled children in extreme poverty. And so instead of helping those groups, they're pushing the 20 year old who's sitting on the couch playing Xbox all day, pushing them onto Medicaid and basically discouraging them from entering the workforce at the same time. So there's a number of problems it creates besides just draining the Medicaid program.
- [10:01]
Matt Kittle
So how did doge highlighting all of this waste and folks like you, government watchdogs saying, hey, we need to change this. How did this become, at least according to the left in this country, President Trump going after Medicaid for the people who really need it, cutting Medicaid, as they say?
- [10:25]
Stuart Whitson
Well, I think it's basically for the left. They're being asked to defend an indefensible position. And what's that? It's, there's all this litany of wasteful spending there, as you described it, rightfully so criminal, you know, handing out of Medicaid benefits that actually is hurting the program. And so the left is caught between a rock and a hard place. They can either admit that the President's right, they can admit that this wasteful spending is happening, but if they do so, that creates two political problems for them. One is it makes it harder, you know, with the mid, when the midterms come up to recognize that the President was right and he fixed a problem. But it also is a tacit admission on their part that all this waste, fraud and abuse happened when it happened on their watch.
- [11:16]
Matt Kittle
Right.
- [11:17]
Stuart Whitson
And so I think that's the problem. And so, and that's why you see, even with the litany, you know, we, you know, you can rattle off the list, whether it's the thirty two thousand dollar transgender comic book to Peru, another one, this one from yesterday, National Institutes of Health, seven hundred thousand dollar grant to study cannabis use among, quote, sexual minority, gender diverse individuals. And so all this list of wait I don't even know what that is, but I don either all and I don't think they do all this list, though, is problematic. And then it actually creates a third problem. And that's the problem that, you know, we're just scratching the surface here of. But it's the corruption. So right now, Doge has uncovered massive amounts of wasteful spending stuff that any American, no matter what political party they're from, they can look at it on its face and know it's harmful, wasteful spending, but they haven't gotten yet to the corruption. And so, you know, we're going to find that, too, where it's, you know, who are these groups that are receiving this grant? Are there any connections between the people, you know who are running these groups and folks in the Biden administration who approved the funding? Are there any kind of kickbacks going back to the, you know, to the Democrat Party? And so I think the left knows this. They know this is all coming down the pike. And so they're kind of scrambling to back up a little bit on your question. So why so aggressive against Medicare? You know, Medicaid, this is kind of classic. So there's a big bill coming up called the reconciliation bill that they're going to pass in Congress. And one of the areas that they're, you know, so in order to extend the Trump tax cuts and do a bunch of other good policy, they also want to cut a bunch of wasteful spending. And so the instructions for that big bill have told the Energy and Commerce Committee, which oversees Medicaid, to find $880 billion worth of savings to be part of that package. And so they've so Republicans have already found a huge list of great things just like that, that Biden's Medicaid streamlining rule. Like I said, if you get rid of that, you get a ton of savings just from that alone. And so you can easily reach that $880 million figure without touching benefits at all, without even cutting benefits. Actually. Benefits would still grow. And so the left is panicking. And what they're doing is they're basically just lying to the American people and trying to convince Americans that, you know, in order to reach those cuts, that they're going to go after these programs. But it's just inherently untrue.
- [13:54]
Matt Kittle
There it is. There it is. But before we get back to that, I just want to say, as you, as you noted, soon, we're going to start taking a look at a closer look at the corruption, who was involved, who made these decisions. And I might suggest that based on the $700,000 grant program that you mentioned before, how these decisions were made, and it would seem to me that a lot of these decisions were made while people were very high on some sort of drug, that, that absolutely distorted their sense of reason, rationality, proportion. You can't look at some of these programs and say these were decisions based on good mental health. That said, let's go back to the Medicaid situation.
- [14:51]
Stuart Whitson
Can I add something to that too?
- [14:52]
Matt Kittle
Yeah, absolutely.
- [14:53]
Stuart Whitson
I also think it's just a dereliction of duty.
- [14:56]
Matt Kittle
Yeah.
- [14:57]
Stuart Whitson
It's not being so. When you're spending people's money, you don't care the same way you care about yours. And so for lack of being a good steward of taxpayer money. And then the other thing, I'd say besides, and I agree, but I agree with your point, the other, the other thing is the timing of the funding. And so people heard about this in the media and Lee Zeldin's doing a great job at EPA uncovering this, but they literally, this was a Biden person characterizing it as throwing gold bars off the ship as it's. And so that's the other thing is how much of this wasteful spending came in the waning days of the Biden administration after the election. So they knew Biden, the Biden administration knew they were out of power. They KNEW that starting January 20, that President Trump was going to come in and that they would all need to find new jobs. How much of this funding was pushed to benefit NGOs that many of these folks are ultimately going to land jobs in. So that's, that's where you're going to see a lot of corruption.
- [16:00]
Matt Kittle
That is to me, and it goes back to the whole Medicaid issue. When you have the facts of the matter, you have this reconciliation bill to, to be able to pay for tax cuts that Americans absolutely deserve. They deserve their money back. Particularly after what we, we've been talking about and they have for a long time and they should well into the future. But you know, the whole position of the left, the Democrat Party, which is screaming over basically, and please correct me if I'm wrong, what they're screaming over with this streamlining situation under the, the Biden administration is their argument is that the 20 year old playing Xbox is going to lose his Medicaid. Is that, I mean, is that really what, that's what the Hill that they're dying on? Yeah.
- [16:54]
Stuart Whitson
And. Well, the argument they're making is untrue. They're trying to make it seem as if benefits are going to be taken from the truly needy. Yeah, and which is inexcusable because it's actually the total opposite. You know, when you have a program that has a finite amount of dollars invested in it, if you remove the able bodied people off of that program and encourage them to go back into the workforce where they can get their own health insurance, that, that frankly is better quality and more suited for them individually. But when you get them out of that entitlement program that frees up resources and dollars for the truly needy. And so that's the great irony here is they are actually hurting the very people that they're claiming they're trying to help. And so, and this is what, I don't need to tell you this too. When they have the left wing corporate media on their side as well, they can just re, you know, hit the same false narrative and the same false talking point over and over and over. And it just convinces everyday Americans, you know, like most Americans don't know the difference between Medicare or Medicaid. They just, you know, think about benefits for healthy people. And so if they hear that same talking point all day long from the corporate media, then, then they start to believe it. And so that's, that's what the left is gambling on, is they can use that to sway public opinion. But I don't think that's going to work.
- [18:21]
Matt Kittle
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- [19:59]
Chris Markowski
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi Dan.
- [20:02]
Dan Morgan
Hey, how's it going today?
- [20:03]
Chris Markowski
It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [20:06]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [20:12]
Chris Markowski
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently. It said 20 billion won. 20 billion is an insane number.
- [20:21]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year and each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [20:33]
Matt Kittle
Awesome.
- [20:34]
Chris Markowski
So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?
- [20:39]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.
- [20:49]
Stuart Whitson
Wow.
- [20:49]
Chris Markowski
Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.
- [20:53]
Dan Morgan
Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.
- [20:59]
Matt Kittle
Now I don't want to talk about that. But that's the word, isn't it? Entitlement. And that's entitlement programs. You're entitled to this which first and foremost is problematic. And it comes, it comes as a loaded word because people who are really deserving, who have fallen through the cracks, we have, you know, the vast majority of Americans have said, yeah, I can see helping out for a time, particularly in a transitional period to help people get back to where they, they need to be. What Americans of course are sick of is the sense of entitlement that comes from expanding Medicaid to people who truly do not deserve it, who are able bodied that can go out and work. And so that ties into that accountability question what you're talking about with the accomplice media. Over and over again they are pushing these narratives and these stories of the, the, the person who's about to lose their, their health care under the mean nasty Trump and Republic couldn't be further from the truth for people who really need these programs as you mentioned. But will they ultimately be successful? Where do things stand on the accountability front for not only the liberal politicians but for their water carriers in the so called mainstream media?
- [22:25]
Stuart Whitson
So I think in Recent years, really with, I mean, honestly, it's this. Elon Musk keeps coming back to the forefront, but his purchase of Twitter changed the, the world for the left wing media and started to, you know, revolutionize the way people get information. And so I think the left are still operating off the old playbook that if the corporate, if they can get the corporate media to all sing from the same, you know, left wing hymenal, that they could just kind of pull the wool over the eyes of Americans and kind of do whatever they want to do. But with social media now, with other, you know, the federalists leading the way on, on giving, you know, accurate reporting and in depth, you know, investigative reporting that people couldn't have had access to before, the average American just ha, you know, has the truth at their fingertips in ways they didn't. And so I think at the end of the day they're the. Because, you know, the other, you know, to back up too. We're on the side of right on this. So we are on the winning side. This isn't a winning argument for them if all the facts can get in front of Americans. And so I do, I think with the way media has changed, I think Americans are going to get those facts in front of them and so, and they're going to be able to kind of neutralize this effort by the left to mischaracterize what Republicans are trying to do.
- [23:49]
Matt Kittle
Our guest today is Stuart Whitson, senior Director of Federal affairs at the foundation for Government Accountability. As we talk about the age of accountability in the federal government, at the very least, you said something very interesting. At last month's House Oversight Committee Subcommittee on Delivering on Government Efficiency, you said that we need to ensure entrenched partisan bureaucrats don't stand in the way of reform. Personnel is policy. I thought that was very well put. I think it gets to the heart of the matter of the Trump administration. The president looking at these entrenched bureaucrats who have forever stood in the way of good, you know, good governance, of, of being respectful of the taxpayers money. But the courts, the leftist led courts are blocking that. Where does this fight go from here?
- [24:54]
Stuart Whitson
Well, I think it, you know, and that's kind of predictable. That's one thing the left has always been good at, is using the courts to try to get in the way of good policy change. And so this is where, you know, kind of in my testimony, a point I was trying to really hammer home is, you know, everything that the President is doing through the Doge effort is great cutting Wasteful spending. Identifying the wasteful spending is great. Removing entrenched bureaucrats, that will get in the way of this change is great. But the problem is anything the President does through executive action can be undone by executive action by a future administration. Yeah, the courts can get in the way. They can, you know, they can slow roll things that I think is, are inevitable. So I think a lot of these legal challenges, eventually the Trump administration is going to be able to win. But the left knows it's kind of a long game. They can drag this out long enough and get past, you know, that first 100 days, which are crucial for any administration, that they can, you know, prevent a lot of good things from happening. And so I think, so my point I was hammering on is this is where Congress needs to come in and try to codify some of these things, give the President some power to be able to do things that I think everyday Americans would agree to. The President should be able to fire unproductive or insubordinate employees. Federal employees shouldn't have more protection than employees in private sector or employees in other, even in Congress, people that work for members of Congress are at will. They can be fired if they're insubordinate or if they don't show up to work. So what we've kind of, over time this, you know, federal workers have been given this special protection that what it does is it allows them to entrench themselves and become resistant. And one of the things too, I kind of mentioned in my testimony as well, is the federal workforce is so disproportionately part of one political party, the Democrat Party, that when they try to entrench, when you put these kind of protections on them, that's why it causes so much problems for Republicans is they're coming in to a new administration and it's literally populated with people, all of the opposite party. So it's just extremely difficult to get anything done.
- [27:17]
Matt Kittle
I think a lot of Americans, this American included, want to know why I'm talking to you from the Des Moines, Iowa area. And this state has seen a lot of job cuts in recent months at one of its Keystone Manufacturing employers, that's Deere and Company. Hundreds of jobs lost, you know, families, lives disrupted. Where, where were the, the Democrat politicians with their signs and their protest and their weeping and their gnashing of teeth over those private sector jobs? Why is it just the, all of this show for these federal employees who have enjoyed really an insulated safety of employment for such a long time?
- [28:11]
Stuart Whitson
Well, I mean, the simple Answer is it's because it's their base. You know, a lot of these voters, my, one of my colleagues, Hayden Du Bl, did a study that we published recently that showed kind of what is the political makeup of federal employees? And real quick before I mentioned that. So you know, here's a fact. 84 of political donations from federal employees went to Kamala Harris in 2024. And so they, so that's not, that's not surprising to people. You know, they know that. But, but what's interesting, his study found he looked at federal executive branch employees and just said what is their actual political makeup? And he found that Democrats have a 30 point advantage over Republicans in terms of identification. But what's crazy is if you go to the D.C. area, it rises from 30 point average advantage to 40. And if you shift focus to just the welfare agencies, it rises to nearly 66, 0, 60 percentage point favor to Dems.
- [29:15]
Dan Morgan
Wow.
- [29:16]
Stuart Whitson
And so that's why when you see so these groups, these welfare agencies, if they're getting, you know, mass firings, that is all that is their base. And so that's why they're coming to their defense. But look, you're right on to, you know, this is something that private industry faces all the time. You know, routinely to run an efficient, you know, organization, you have to come in and kind of look and say, you know, do we still need these functions we needed before? Is there any redundancy within the company? Are there, you know, two different departments that are essentially doing the same job as one another? Should we, you know, combine those together? And so all these kind of things that everyday Americans understand, of course this is what you have to do, you know, to keep a business competitive. On the federal government side, they don't worry about this. And the reason they don't worry about this is if there's inefficiency or you know, if they're, they have a mission they were supposed to accomplish and they failed to accomplish it, their solution is always the same. More money, right. More resources, give them more employees. And so what happens is over time, so they're not, they don't have the market forces, you know, pushing on the government. And so what does that mean? It means over time it naturally grows and expands. And I saw this, I spent a decade in the FBI before I joined the foundation for Government Accountability. And you could see like even I, you know, and for the most part the FBI was a, you know, pretty efficient and well run organization. But the sprawl and growth, I mean you, you could see it yourself, like even buildings that were in the D.C. area that, you know, so they're in the same area, but they're separate buildings, you would see the same missions start to pop up in those two separate buildings. And so, and that's just one example. But that's going on across the government. And so that's what's so great about the Doge effort and about what the President's doing, is he realizes, you know, we've been on a reckless spending spree for the last four years. And so if we're going to get control of our government and our budget, we have to come in and look at all this stuff and try to fix it. And so, and I think because of the entrenched bureaucracy, in a sense, the President's hand is kind of forced to do these more aggressive, you know, removal of federal employees in areas. Then you might, you know, that as you, you know, some people characterize it as more of a hatchet versus a scalpel, but it's, I think the President, in a sense, is kind of forced to go with that route because of the entrenched bureaucrats.
- [31:51]
Matt Kittle
Yeah, I don't doubt that at all. And you raise a good point. With all of the sprawl, with the never ending growth of the federal government and in one particular area of the country, this is a big country, as we know, and the question is, do we need to continue to have a, all of these agencies, these many unaccountable agencies, and do they need to operate in one centralized location? And with that, ultimately, is that good governance to have them all in one centralized location?
- [32:31]
Stuart Whitson
Yeah, and I think it's not. And I think especially when that one centralized location is so predominantly part of one political party. Because what happens is, if you put these agencies in the heart of an area like DC then all the support employees, the employees that actually run that or the headquarters building, if you will, they're all drawn from the local population because they have to be able to commute to the building. What you do is you populate that entire agency, you know, the permanent folks, with people of just one political party, and then the leadership is kind of coming in and out. Like most of the leadership in an organization like the FBI, they're on, they call them TDY's. And so they're kind of coming into headquarters for a little bit, then moving to another assignment. And so you create this kind of permanent culture within the headquarters element that leans very far to one political party. So it just makes sense to kind of push those out and Again, the great advantage if you do something like this, you know that the drain the swamp type movement, where you're moving all these headquarters elements out, it also gives you this moment to pause and say, do we need this group, you know, this unit we're about to move to Huntsville, Alabama? Should we move them? Do we already have someone else doing that job somewhere? Is this. Is this function even needed anymore? And that's not an indictment on the people. You know, all the, you know, certainly some of the people need to be removed quickly. But there may be solid people that are in a department that just isn't needed. And so you. What do you do? You get rid of that department and you find a home for those good people. You put a hiring freeze. You don't hire any new people, and you find the good people another spot they can land so they can do great work. You know, the solution isn't to just keep that unit going. That's serving no purpose. That's not good for the country or good for the people. And then the other thing is, area like D.C. is what, it's expensive, right? Yeah. It costs a lot of money to put a building into and to have people traveling in and out of D.C. why not put it, you know, somewhere else where the cost of living is a little lower and where it's, you know, just more efficient for the government? So.
- [34:47]
Chris Markowski
Elon Musk and Doge need help.
- [34:50]
Matt Kittle
The Watchdog on Wall street podcast with Chris Markowski.
- [34:53]
Chris Markowski
Every day, Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. Doge is only highlighting the spending problems, but Congress controls the purse strings. Congress needs to follow through and step.
- [35:05]
Stuart Whitson
Up to control the spending, or we'll be back where we started.
- [35:08]
Matt Kittle
Whether it's happening in D.C. or down on Wall street, it's affecting you financially.
- [35:12]
Chris Markowski
Be informed. Check out the Watchdog on Wall street podcast with Chris Murkowski on Apple, Spotify.
- [35:16]
Matt Kittle
Wherever you get your podcast.
- [35:19]
Chris Markowski
I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.
- [35:22]
Stuart Whitson
Hey.
- [35:23]
Dan Morgan
How's it going today?
- [35:24]
Chris Markowski
It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.
- [35:27]
Dan Morgan
I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.
- [35:33]
Chris Markowski
That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion won. 20 billion is an insane number.
- [35:42]
Dan Morgan
Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.
- [35:54]
Matt Kittle
Awesome.
- [35:55]
Chris Markowski
So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan, what would I do if I got into an accident?
- [35:59]
Dan Morgan
Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open or call center is always waiting to take your call. 247360 wow.
- [36:10]
Chris Markowski
Dan Morgan from Morgan & Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the.
- [36:14]
Dan Morgan
Show. Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near.
- [36:17]
Matt Kittle
You. Well, to the politics of it, it's affected the electoral map. Look at Virginia. Virginia is, you know, a, a somewhat a battleground state. It's been taken over by the left in so many ways because all of those liberal Democrat positions in the federal government, Maryland is, is the same way. You know, it could be certainly a much more competitive state in the electoral map. But you know, it's, it's, it's amazing how much politics has played into this. Power has played into this and that is why we have seen so much resistance to change. Ultimately this should all be done for the best interest of the people of this country. And unfortunately a lot of the growth and development in government, expansion in government has been done for the sake of, of political power. Speaking of which, I, I know that the foundation for Government Accountability has done some excellent work, particularly on the legal front on the whole notion of Biden bucks Executive Order 14 019, as it is officially known under President Joe Biden. This was as you have noted, as you have found through some very arduous work on this front, legal work, that this was nothing more. It was billed as expanding access to voting. Sounds all nice and democracy based. But really what it was was a massive get out the vote machine for the left and the Democrat Party. The, the president rightly immediately rescinded that executive order because of the many problems it faced constitutionally for one thing, to federalize get out the vote efforts. But how much of the Doge efforts do you think will come through in looking at the sweetheart deals for all of these NGOs under Biden bucks.
- [38:34]
Stuart Whitson
I think that'll definitely come into play and I think the other thing I would say too, so the organization I work for, the foundation for Government Accountability, we actually sued the Department of Justice, as you know, because I know you've reported a lot on the, on the Biden box and on the laws, our lawsuit as well and others. But we sued the Department of Justice to get to the bottom of what, you know, they were doing and other organizations were doing to help carry out that eo. Our lawsuit is still moving forward. And so obviously, we're confident, you know, with the new administration that's devoted to transparency, that we're going to be able to help get some of the answers we'd sought from what the Biden administration was doing behind closed doors to help carry out this unconstitutional and illegal order, that we're going to be able to get some of that information and help promote transparency around that. As you rightfully noted, President Trump on day one, rescinded that eo, which is pretty amazing, and I love it, because the left always accuses the right of doing what they do. And so literally, one of his first acts was to get the federal executive branch out of the business of elections, which he could have just used that same program that Biden tried to use to try to keep himself in power. And what did President Trump do? No, on day one, he literally, he rescinded that and called it out for what it.
- [40:02]
Matt Kittle
Was. That's, that's a. Stuart, that's a very important point that I think is lost. And, and, you know, I've, I've written on that, and I think I, I didn't hammer that point home enough. The president could continue this and use this at least constitutionally suspect executive order for the benefit of himself and for his fellow Republicans, but he said no, this was an absolutely unconstitutional order, and it, it definitely benefited one political party, and that's not what the federal government should be in the business of.
- [40:39]
Stuart Whitson
Doing. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And so the good. And so that's the big point. It too is, I feel like that threat has been neutralized, at least temporarily. But the key now is accountability. And so if there are employees still within federal agencies, you know, burrowed in, who are trying to help carry that out, I think it's important to identify those folks and make sure the new leadership that has come in knows, you know, who those folks are and, you know, removes them, you know, through proper means from the, from the agencies. But also just to let let future administrations know, too, that if you do this kind of stuff, if you just ignore the Constitution and you, you try to do something as unprecedented as the Biden buck's executive order was that there's going to be accountability. So that's. So we're trying to continue to do that, and we'll definitely keep you posted on any new developments on that.
- [41:34]
Matt Kittle
Front. That's great because that has been so Vital to, you know, waking up the American people to the political operation that was entrenched that the taxpayers are paying for. They shouldn't have to pay for this stuff. It was the argument with Zuck bucks, of course, 2020. It's just even, it's more massive, certainly with federal taxpayer dollars. These were leftist groups, again, like in Zuck Bucks, entrenched in, in government offices, pushing voter registration mobilization to targeted liberal audiences. If that isn't a, a problem election, an election integrity problem, I don't know what is. We just have left. And you, you brought up the fact before that before you joined the foundation, you were, you served in the FBI as a supervisory special agent leading a large section of, in the FBI's Directorate of Intelligence. I wanted to get your take as you've observed it. What do you think about the changes coming to the FBI with a new director, Cash Patel, and what the FBI is attempting to do in terms of reforming an agency that has quite frankly gotten quite a black eye over the last several.
- [42:57]
Stuart Whitson
Years? Yeah, no, there's no question that the FBI is broken. And it's not just, you know, leadership changes that needed to be made or structural changes or other things like that, but it's also a loss of trust. And so that is what's, you know, as a former FBI agent that was kind of most painful to hear is the amount of trust that Americans have lost in the Federal Bureau of Investigation. And so, and I'm so, you know, obviously we need, you know, we're a nation of laws. You know, we need, you know, ordered liberty. We can't have one without the other. And so it's just so important to have a federal law enforcement agency that that not is not only world class and great at what it does the way the FBI is, but equally important, it has to be one that's trusted by the American people. And so I think the selection of Cash Patel as the next director was, I can't think of a better choice because I think he brings this wealth of past experience not just as a prosecutor, not just on the national security side with Department of Defense and ODNI and other agencies, but also as a former defense attorney. So I feel like that's a unique background to come in and kind of understand, you know, maybe better than, than a lot of others, you know, the danger of when, you know, federal agents at times, you know, can go beyond their power when the government can. I also think he's someone that the president trusts. I think that's important. But I do think he's someone that the American people like, the, especially the folks, you know, on the conservative side, will really trust that if he comes back and says, I looked into something, there's nothing here, you know, this is fine, they're gonna believe him when he says that because they're gonna also see him do things that, you know, the, that the typical type of person you would see appointed to this position wouldn't be willing to do. And so the truth of the matter is, like, you got to do a lot of things to fix the FBI, but to earn, to re. Earn the trust of the American people, you have to do even more. And so that's going to require sweeping structural changes, sweeping changes to the leadership. And I feel like he's, he's, I can't think of someone better to do.
- [45:21]
Matt Kittle
It. So what about those, those Epstein files, they coming.
- [45:26]
Stuart Whitson
Out? Oh, I'm sure I, I, without a doubt. I think anything that can be released will be released. But that's a good example, too. There may be some things in there where, if it's going to reveal the identity of a victim, for instance, I think Cash Patel is going to be the type of person that's going to make sure that doesn't happen. And so you're not going to see. So it, but, but anything that can be released will. And then, and I should say too, you know, that decision will ultimately fall on the Attorney General, what gets.
- [45:57]
Matt Kittle
Released.
- [45:57]
Stuart Whitson
Right. So I'm sure she's driving that. But same. You know, I would sing her praises the same way I'd sing the new Director Patel's praises. So I think, I think the FBI is going to be in good hands, but it's not going to, he's not going to be able to write the ship overnight. And I, and I think he maybe more than anyone else is going to face the same kind of challenge from the entrenched bureaucrats that could resist. And so that's not to say so 99% of the agents and support staff and analysts that work there are great, amazing people. But all it takes is that 1% to get in the way to slow roll. I mean, you saw the blatant act of insubordination in the newspapers with a gentleman in New York saying it's time to dig in. That kind of insubordination, it's easier to get rid of because you see it right away. But the other is he's going to give an order and try to do a change, and there's going to be entrenched folks that think they're doing what's best for the, for the agency who are going to just resist his order. And so I think over time he's going to figure out who those people are and replace them with people that will get the job done. But it's going to be, it's not going to be an easy task to do, but I think he's up for.
- [47:11]
Matt Kittle
It. Yeah, you've really answered this question, but I just wanted to expound upon it just a little bit more. It's a big agency and there are a lot of really good and talented men and women still working in that agency. But it doesn't take much to corrupt an agency. So the question is, how many more Peter Strucks are there in the FBI? I know you haven't been there in a while, but is this something that, that runs deep in the.
- [47:39]
Stuart Whitson
FBI? Yeah, I wouldn't say, but this kind of goes back to a point we were talking about earlier. It's, this is the danger with putting headquarters in D.C. i think D.C. is the kind of place that, and I don't think, I don't know Peter Strock at all. So I don't know what he was ever like. I never met him, but I felt. And so I don't think he falls in this category. But other people could be good, solid agents and good, solid people and could come to D.C. and just be kind of ruined by that.
- [48:06]
Matt Kittle
Environment. Most are not many politicians are, that's for.
- [48:10]
Stuart Whitson
Sure. Yeah, but I think you come out here and I think well intentioned people could be looking for their next job or their next thing. And so, so again, just an, yet another reason to just move that out of D.C. where you can, you still would need, you know, some headquarters people there so they can be accountable to the President and be accountable to the Attorney General, be accountable to Congress. So you need, you would need, you know, people there to be able to do that. But most of the support functions and all that, there's just no reason.
- [48:38]
Matt Kittle
For them to be in D.C. accountability is here. More accountability is coming. That's the promise. And we've seen the Trump administration, the President deliver on that. And I'm very interested, as a lot of Americans are, in seeing where all of this goes. Thanks to my guest today, Stuart Whitson, Director, Senior Director of Federal affairs at the foundation for Government Accountability. Sir, thank you so much for joining.
- [49:05]
Stuart Whitson
Us. Thanks so much for having me.
- [49:07]
Matt Kittle
On. You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at The Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the.
- [49:19]
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Matt Kittle
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Matt Kittle
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Stuart Whitson
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Matt Kittle
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Stuart Whitson
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Stuart Whitson
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Matt Kittle
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Stuart Whitson
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Matt Kittle
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Matt Kittle
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Matt Kittle
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