← Federalist Radio Hour
Federalist Radio Hour
Fighting The Abortion Industrial Complex Four Years After Dobbs
00:45:35
On this edition ofThe Federalist Radio Hour, Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America President Marjorie Dannenfelser joins Federalist Senior Elections Correspondent Matt Kittle to reflect on the fourth anniversary of the Supreme Court's Dobbs v. Jackson...
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- [00:02]
A
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- [00:48]
B
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist Radio hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the Federalist and your experience sherpa on today's quest for knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio the federalist.com follow us on x@fbrlst. Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast and of course to the premium version of our website as well. Our guest today is Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of Susan B. Anthony Pro life America. Today we discuss life after Dobbs four years later. Marjorie, as always, it's a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Federalist Radio hour.
- [01:31]
C
It's a pleasure to be with you. My favorite Sherpa. I'm very happy to be back again.
- [01:38]
B
We will climb the mountains of knowledge, as it were. At least we will do our best. I am talking to you on a remarkable day, at least a remarkable anniversary. Yes, it is the anniversary of the end of some really bad law in America. You know, first and foremost, it was bad law that murdered millions upon millions of unborn children. Children who think about the lifespan, strange, strange terminology, but the lifespan of Roe v. Wade, almost 50 years. That's the span of basically of my life. You know, you think about all of the, the human beings that would be here now if we hadn't had this, this abominable decision from the, the U. S. Supreme court in, in 1973. And so here we are 2022 and you, you have this magnificent day for the pro life movement. Just a miraculous day, a day that you had looked for for so long, you and all in the pro life movement. But I want to take you back several weeks before, before we get to the Dobbs ruling because I think that is essential to the context of kind of where we're at in America still. It was in early May of 2022 and all of a sudden politico has a bombshell report. It's the leaked draft decision, the draft ruling of the Dobbs decision. And I'm, I can imagine that you were, upon first hearing about this or reading about it, you were, you were absolutely overjoyed. And then that, that overjoy must have, you know, come also with the real concern that organizations like yours quickly being targeted. We have death threats and death plots, murder plots against Supreme Court justices. It was a very volatile time in America to say the least, was it not?
- [04:09]
C
Oh boy, it was. And I'll have to admit that when that leak, so called leak, came out, I really didn't believe it, mainly because I couldn't let myself believe it. I suppose that I and many other in the movement were like, let's don't believe everything we read coming out of Washington. I mean, we had all sorts of thoughts like maybe this is the other side trying to influence some of the on the borderline justices because they knew that the violence would come out. And look, I have no idea. But as it turns out, it was a leak. It was an actual authentic leak. And at that time, as you know, there was a surge of violence. I mean, for me, just a tiny taste of it, but I had to have 24 hour security for more than a year. And it was, I'm good with that, I'm fine with that. But you know, it brings that to those around you who didn't ask for it. So again, it's nothing compared to what other people had to endure. But it did give you a sense of what the other side is made of. And I'm very clear on the fact that they were, that they are sharp and smart, Sol Alinsky level smart, thinking about seeing the handwriting on the wall and planning ahead. And while they were doing that, our side, meaning many of our elected officials, in fact, I would say all at the top of the food chain in the Republican Party, completely caving on the responsibility to lead at a very sensitive moment when a landmark decision is coming down, arguably, let's say top among the top in the history of the nation. And while they were imploding in terms of leadership, the other side was planning. And we're seeing now the fruition of that plan. That plan was to shift from the idea that a woman and her doctor are a sacrosanct relationship. And let's take it out of that relationship and move it all to the mail. Which happened, of course, during the Biden administration, quickly after, during COVID and now we're living with this strategy of theirs and slash Covid hangover, slash Biden policy that allows women to be coerced, harmed, injured and has increased the abortion rate in this country by 1.6% when we thought it would be going down. And abortions are up in red states. So they just shifted gears in a nefarious way. And we know it's good to evaluate and understand how the person on the other side of this fight is, is working. And it's time for our folks just to fight smarter. And that means the administration really needs to step up now.
- [07:16]
B
And we're definitely going to talk about that coming up. But as we move to where we are today, do you think that Republicans in the main were more worried about their political lives in 2022 than the lives of so many unborn?
- [07:36]
C
In the main, yes, with some notable exceptions, and I think you've reported here many times that the losses that were expected and feared didn't occur. Not one Republican lost a statewide race that was an incumbent. I mean, that is significant. And yes, they hoped for more. But think about this landmark decision and the unilateral disarmament on our side and the attack on the other side and anyone would have expected more. But it's weird when people talk about about that election now, they talk about it as being a huge disaster, which it really wasn't. And the Notable exceptions were J.D. vance, Marco Rubio, Governor Kemp in Georgia and others who right after a really strong pro life measure was enacted or there was a debate about what was going to happen, they did not shrink. They really stepped up and they provided the common sense contrast that you would in an election like that. And they did beautifully. We still use to this day some of their debate appearances as examples for other candidates. And I will send you those. They're really worth reviewing. So the notable exceptions are to people perhaps on the rise. And so that's encouraging. But back to your point, in the main, the people who are really in a place to make a big difference about what is the policy of the Republican Party all fell away and all use the ostrich strategy instead of a bold, confident, moral high ground influenced place to be in the middle of a moment that desperately needed their voice.
- [09:23]
B
I think I know the answer to this because I know you and I know the organization and I know what's going on in politics and policy in America. But here's the question, are we better off in the pro life movement four years after Dobbs than we were before Dobbs?
- [09:42]
C
There are two, there are two ways to look at that question. And I'm not talking out of both of both sides of my mouth with these two ways. There's the Long view, which is very hopeful because the door is open, not slam shut. We have a Supreme Court decision that allows for great leadership, great strong pro life protections. But if you're in the, but if like, like we do measure in the short term in terms of lives lost, we've, we're worse off, clearly. If the measure is lives, lives lost and lives ruined, then we are worse off than we were on the day of Dobbs. But I don't, I, I, I really do see the hope and that is why this next couple of years, 26 and 28 elections and everything going on on the ground that that makes this possibility real are the two elections that will determine whether a strong policy takes off post jobs or doesn't. We went through the scramble. Four years is not very long. When you think about it though, it feels very long in terms of the deaths. But four years to scramble. Okay. And I heard it from more people than I would like to admit that are very strongly pro life. We just need to let the dust settle. Which I can't have to tell you there's nothing that I hate worse than that because the dust turns out to be human life. But yeah, the 26 election will help determine the team. We'll see how we do the team that will move into the Future. And then 28 election and those primaries, especially in Iowa and South Carolina will determine what type of leader we will have fighting the pro life cause. And it's there, it's incredibly consequential so that it doesn't get buried for a generation or more.
- [11:45]
B
What if political disagreement didn't have to become political warfare? That's the idea behind the Future of Freedom podcast. Each week two liberty minded thinkers tackle a major issue from different perspectives. One conversation, two viewpoints. No yelling, no dunking, no debate stage theatrics, just thoughtful arguments presented in good faith, giving listeners the chance to weigh the evidence and reach their own conclusions. In a media environment built for outrage. Future of Freedom is built for curiosity. Listen to Future of Freedom wherever you get your podcast. You mentioned and I want to, I want to talk a little bit more about policy and its impacts and the Trump administration does not get off the, the hook for this. You know, you have clearly a president who has been in, in many ways very good to the life movement. This reversal of Roe v. Wade doesn't happen without this president. Let's, let's be honest about that. But the administration that has proved to be so pro life is dragging its feet, to say the least on what I like to sadly Call the abortion vending machine industry.
- [13:14]
C
Yeah.
- [13:15]
B
And that's really what it is in this death culture. You have an administration that has been good in so many ways on life, and yet we have more deaths of the unborn, more destruction because of the policies in place right now, which again, that began with the Biden administration, but the Trump administration continues them. Is that a lack of political courage? Why, I mean, the best of your knowledge, why do you think this continues to happen?
- [13:51]
C
Well, it's the wrong thing and the politically dumb thing to do. And that is exactly what's happened. You absolutely understand what is going on. And look, I think we all know. And if people don't know, President Trump will tell you that without him it would never would have happened. We could not have done it without a president who was willing to make a promise for only pro life justices.
- [14:16]
B
He will definitely tell you that. And he will tell you that as this abortion on demand via the mail continues.
- [14:25]
C
Exactly, exactly. And so this whole idea that it's up to the states only is a disastrous failure that as a policy is now, let's just say it out loud, a disastrous failure. Without leadership in stopping the drugs flooding into every state, including the pro life states, without national leadership, Lincolnian style leadership on a fundamental human rights question such as this, that says it doesn't matter where you live, that should never determine whether your life is valuable or you get to live at all without those two things. It has been this, which is what the state's only policy is. It is proven to be a disaster and meaning loss of life, coerced women, women who are getting the pills slipped into their drinks, stuffed down their throat while they sleep, all sorts, fraternities just packing them in just in case. Traffickers and pimps making sure they have them on hand. You know, they're absolutely, you can get it, anybody can get it. Doesn't matter who you are, your age, your gestational, where you are in your pregnancy, get it for your friend, your boyfriend, someone you hate. It's just the wild west and it is nothing like health care. So yes, the administration let me, I'll be just clear about what they are doing because I've had a lot of communication with the new FDA head of the fda, after being very critical in the Wall Street Journal. A lot of good progress, I think, on this study of the harms to women that the pill and this policy has caused. But while one studies, one should act. There is no reason why the Justice Department cannot settle with the state of Louisiana, who sued the fda for undermining its laws, its sovereignty, causing, causing more financial burden because of all of the women coming in with hemorrhages who are on Medicaid. So there's no reason the Justice Department cannot settle, excuse me, with the state of Louisiana and immediately reinstate the rules surrounding the distribution of the drug, which we hate, which we would like to go away, but at least something common sense like you must be prescribed this in a medical environment where you have a sonogram, know if you have an ectopic pregnancy or other underlying factors that would affect you or a future baby. That is unconscionable. It is morally not okay. There's no political reason to do it. It's wildly popular. McLaughlin polls, McLaughlin is the president's pollster, shows that pro choice people, self defined pro choice people think yes, it's, you should see a doctor before, before receiving this pill. It shouldn't just be through the mail. So there's just really, it's a grief. It really is. And it's daily. I mean today was filled with. Today on this anniversary of the Dobbs decision, we're trying to influence senators who are happy to do it to talk to the acting Attorney General who wants to be confirmed. Ask him, is he willing to do this? So far we're hearing no. Let's wait until the study comes out and then, and then, of course, you know how that goes. As soon as the study comes out and any change in policy occurs, there'll be a suit that bogs it down forever. So.
- [18:10]
B
Exactly. It's very frustrating and I can hear that frustration in your voice and I certainly understand why. This is what I do not get about this, this allowance in this policy. I get that Joe Biden came up with it. I don't get why, why Donald Trump and his administration continue to allow this to happen, especially with everything we've learned over the past few years. But here's the other thing. The, the Supreme Court left this to the states. Right? I mean that's really ultimately what Dobbs is all about.
- [18:41]
C
Left it to every legislator include, including federal and state.
- [18:44]
B
No, no, you're exactly, exactly right. The left it to, to legislatures, I should say you're absolute. But here, let's just even take it from the state side of things. If I am a marijuana farmer in, in Minneapolis, where it's legal to do that, I can't send via the mail my product and sell it to the people. In Wisconsin, they have a law against the distribution of marijuana. So what is different about that?
- [19:20]
C
Yeah, well, this is why you're the Sherpa. Because there is no difference, absolutely no difference at all. Except for fear. Midterms are soon. Now, I haven't heard that from any person's mouth. And in terms of fact, there's a lot of denial of that fact, but there simply is no other reason. Think of the courage on so many other issues that this administration has shown, just because they think and believe very deeply that it's worth justice, just calls for turning a rule around. That was in the Biden administration. There's precedent for it happening over and over and over again. And all of a sudden now, even though the district court is, the circuit court is not, and the district courts don't think there's a problem in standing now that now the Justice Department really believes standing is a problem. They believe that they can predict, you know, they can, they can second guess the circuit court and the district court and they can say, well, may, you know, in the Supreme Court, they, you know, they might not side with us. That doesn't sound like the DNA of this administration on other things. And so, yes, you hear frustration. It's born of having so much hope and partnership and friendship in this cause in the first administration. And what we see now is an unusual fear. And it won't help in the midterms, I can tell you that, because we are door to door in your state, Iowa. We are door to door in every battleground state and a significant number of House battlegrounds. And we know what we're hearing. You can't keep this information from people they know. So it's not going to help with, you know, things are looking rough in the polls right now, and you need every vote. And we, I mean, no one goes after those votes like the people on the ground working for sba. They, no one does it like this. Not the party, not the, I mean, not the candidates. There's just nothing like it. And it's not good news.
- [21:22]
B
Well, you know, we, we touched upon that a little bit, but history shows us 2022, 2024, the Republicans who ran away from life found themselves in a whole heap of trouble. We know myriad examples of Republicans, whether it be through primaries or in the general election, lost their seats because they lost their heads when it came to core values. And I think a lot of conservatives, particularly conservatives in the life, believe that that is going on right now and it's all just a little history repeating.
- [22:01]
C
But it's pretty much the same story throughout mankind, isn't it? I mean, you, you stick your head in the Sand. We insist on calling it the ostrich strategy. So people can envision it and you get devoured by your enemy. If you want to pretend like it's not there, then you will in politics get labeled that you, you get called a person who wants to put women in jail. You get called somebody who is, who is callous, who is unfeeling and you don't say anything about it. You provide no contrast. That's what sticks every single time. So that's the way it is between human beings all over the place. And it, the same rule applies to politics, which is just about people, is about people talking about who should lead, you know. Yeah.
- [22:48]
B
Voters are quick to recognize courage and they're quick to recognize cowardice. Our guest today is Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America, talking about life after Dobbs four years later. And then here we are with Congress. Planned Parenthood is what, about to get its, its funding back after a huge victory freezing the, the, the abortion industrial complex. That, that's, that I think that's amazing to a lot of people. And so what's, what's the excuse from, from the members of Congress who fought so hard to cut that funding?
- [23:31]
C
Well, it is the expected new policy. I think that's what we all should say out loud. This is the new day. This is the new policy. This is the default. This is what we should be expecting whenever there's a Republican held administration. This should be the fight. But I think the people who are fighting and who are the good people who are fighting are seeing these, some of these guys on the margins that are making life impossible. There are no excuses. There has to be a press, There has to be a vote. If it's in reconciliation coming up, maybe there's other reasons that people have to vote for this. This is what happened last time. It's not as EAS as it looks. It really isn't in the current polarized Congress that we have. It's the handful of pro abortion Republicans that are really causing the problem when there's only a margin of one or two in the House. And on this, we really don't, you know, it's, it's, we should have those votes because it's just taxpayer funding of abortion. When you think of Fitzpatrick in Pennsylvania and Lawler in New York, they are determining whether we have to pay Planned Parenthood to number one, kill our kids, number two, defeat our elected officials and number three, lie to us about what they actually do and fraud the federal government out of out of money, as they do over and over in Medicaid, and they did during the COVID virus. So Fitzpatrick and Lawler should answer for this. If they can't step up and fight for this, they shouldn't just be waiting to see what's in a bill. They should be fighting for it on behalf of the people who just think, whatever you think about this issue, we shouldn't be forced to pay for the number one abortion provider in the nation.
- [25:21]
B
And this clearly is and will have to be reconciliation, because you've got Susan Collins in Maine. And Susan Collins, of course, is desperately trying to be reelected and is in a political battle for her life against a guy with a Nazi tattoo and an alleged history of treating women very badly. Also very, very much an abortion on demand supporter. And Graham Platner. So that's.
- [25:52]
C
Yeah, that's an insane world. You can't even make it up.
- [25:55]
B
Yeah, no, I mean, that's the option for Maine voters right now. And so you have to really wade through a morass and try to navigate through this new reality politics. Speaking of which, I think about life after Dobbs. One of the sickest things. You and I have talked about this before. One of the sickest things. Just a morally depressed, depraved culture. And, and that to me is even bigger than the Planned Parenthood battles. Very important, no doubt, but it's just the, the deterioration of the. The culture. When I see the abortion tourism industry, California and Illinois. Just how depraved can this society get?
- [26:42]
C
Yeah, I mean, I've always. I used to be very pro choice and one of my, one of my first epiphanies. Self epiphany came from others, though I probably credited myself was the fundamental principle that you shouldn't treat other people like an obstacle to your success, your happiness, your freedom. It's a very pagan, very postmodern way of looking at the other that you see. And that of course, is at the core of abortion. That person is in your way is. There's a thousand reasons and there are some gut wrenching reasons, but the bottom line is a decision to not avail oneself of help and getting in touch with those inner resources that you have. But that other person is the problem. You may decide that it's not another person, but it is another person. It's nothing else than a person. The same is true in so many other human relationships and femin and the worst version of feminism. Men are the obstacles to success and, you know, racism. The other race is your obstacle to success or in your way or just basically crowds. Like, I'm sick of so many people around me. We just need fewer of these others because I am the one that matters most and I need to thin out the crowd. That's the basic Planned Parenthood, you know, we need better quality people and fewer of them. Them. That's the Planned Parenthood thing.
- [28:18]
B
Eugenics then.
- [28:19]
C
Eugenics, exactly. Hey, by the way, did you know that Planned Parenthood endorsed Graham Platner in Maine? That guy who was an abusive nut job.
- [28:31]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [28:32]
C
I want to go back to that.
- [28:33]
B
Yes, yes. Exactly. Mr. Nazi Tattoo himself.
- [28:37]
C
No, I know. It's just. It's just crazy. But I. But you're. The coarsening of the culture is there. We have a lot of supporters who. This is important to them. But they see they are involved in a lot of other issues. But they see the abortion issue as the. As a lightning rod for that problem. The how we treat each other and the counter that it is to family formation, seeking the other. The basic, you know, Mother Teresa called it finding Jesus in his distressing disguise. And other people. You know, but it's. But. But the opposite. When we have a culture of life, when we don't see. We see the individuals in the crowd. But not just the crowd. We see people for who they are.
- [29:27]
B
Yeah.
- [29:27]
C
And really see them, then that is where culture flourishes, where families being formed can stay together. And we've got a lot of work to do. But we're not doing it alone. Thank God.
- [29:45]
D
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- [30:19]
B
No doubt about it. And it's good to have friends. Sometimes you look around and it's hard to find them. But the good friends who've been there in the fight for a long time, the ones you can always count on that we, we cherish them. Of course. I want to get to I. What I think is. And there are a number of. Of people, the face of the. The pro life movement and their stories and, and I think you folks do a great job of. Of telling those stories. And I want to get into that in, in just a moment, but I wanted to get your take on the Texas Senate race. There are a lot of interesting races. This to me is one of the more interesting. You have Ken Paxton, of course, a champion for life. And then you have James Talarico, who as the Federalist just reported recently in, in a 2021 podcast, had said or confessed that he is a Christian who hates Christianity, which is an odd thing to say, and, and run for Texas Senate.
- [31:32]
C
Wow.
- [31:32]
B
But this is the same guy, you know, who, who told, you know, people as he was running for elective office, said that, you know, abortion is okay by the Bible because, you know, we had that, that conversation with, with Mary before, before the Immaculate Conception and, and so she consented. So it's about Mary and the consent and that's the, the green light for abortion in the Bible. What do you think about this kind of stuff? I am concerned about it not because far left individuals like him actually believe in this nonsense, but that he is trying to package this form of Christianity that, you know, endorses horrific things like abortion.
- [32:34]
C
Well, I, what I think is, well, it's demonic. Anybody who could turn Mary's fiat into a pro choice argument is, is really not probably someone who is making Christianity fit his worldview rather than the opposite trying to make it fit somehow. Right. I don't know, like I don't know him, I don't know his heart, I don't know his soul. But that, but I do think that in any state, but especially including Texas, to use that story will not help him. And there are more things in politics, but it is a fruition of what our hopes and dreams are, hopefully. And I don't think the hopes and dreams of Texans are that Mary is the poster child for choice. I don't think that whether you're a Catholic or an evangelical or even if you're a non Christian, it just is so inauthentic. And I think we've talked about authenticity before. One thing that everybody is looking for is authenticity. Just be who you are and express it as best as you can and don't contort things to fit your worldview. Be proud of what it is. I think of members of Congress that have run for years and really kind of purple to blue districts who are pro life and the gloves have stayed on. Basically the voters, if they're a leaning pro choice district, have come to respect some of these men and women because they see their life in action. So that kind of crazy, I don't think runs well and the only question is, will everyone find out about it or not? I know that we are doing our part and you are doing your part. I believe and I hope and believe I do know Paxton, and I think he will do his part. But it's just that contrast will help Paxton. There's just no way about it.
- [34:32]
B
Well, as we reported at the Federalist this week, Talarico, this podcast that we're talking about kind of unearthed, was the guest on the Roberto Che Henderson Espinosa's Activist Theology podcast back in 2021 1. The candidate said a lot of striking things on this, but just for a little background and context. Espinosa, formerly known as Robin Henderson Espinosa, identifies as a non binary, transgender, Latinx theologian on the autistic spectrum. So a lot of things going on. The ordained Baptist previously taught queer theory and theology, Introduction to Christian Social ethics, the ethics of liberation, and queer theory and religious ethics. All of this sort of stuff is at. Is really what James Talarico is preaching. In fact, he said he was a fanboy of Espinosa at the time. He's trying to walk back his comments, very unpopular comments in good parts of Texas.
- [35:46]
C
Well, I'm really counting on Espinosa traveling across Texas campaigning for his candidate.
- [35:52]
B
Yes.
- [35:53]
C
I mean, we need him right now.
- [35:55]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
- [35:58]
C
Well, kudos to the Federalists for exposing that. And you know, I think sometimes it's pretty simple who, what, what makes more sense that or the agenda that Paxson has on certainly on abortion, but on, on most common sense questions. Yeah, but I look, this is one of the reasons why one of the things I know you don't have unlimited time, so I want to make sure I get one thing. And I think you'll go right.
- [36:25]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [36:25]
C
Over these few years, when you think of it, four years versus 250 years of our nation, you know, where we're basing all our arguments on the inalienable right to life, you know, our founding documents, all this is happening. Four years isn't a ton. It feels like a ton, but it, but it really isn't. One thing that has happened in those years is the conversations, the public and private conversations that are going on are incredibly important and they are leaning, they are helping the country. And what I see is a tracking back to a normal standard that really Roe kind of masked now that the choice is real, meaning people realize, oh my gosh, you really can get an abortion up into the end because that's, that's actually what they're. What everybody's Talking about and what everybody's defending and you're having to have the conversation in that period of time, in the last two years, just two years, young people's identification as pro life has gone up 11%. Yeah, significant. And the pro choice, just a couple of days ago a Gallup poll showed that the identification, The Pro Choice ID went down 7 points and the moral acceptability of just the abortion act was down five points. Now you can't base everything in polls, but I can tell you what we see at the doors, what we see through our work on the ground, non political work in serving women through our organization called her Plan Pregnancy and Life Assistance Network all over the country is that the tendency to underestimate the inner resources of women that where everybody planned parent is telling them you can't do this. They're hearing something else now. They're hearing let's get creative. What can we do to you? Can you can get your, your degree, we can help you out of poverty. This may be the one moment in your life that you can get the help you need to get back on track. And that is what we're seeing over and over, story after story after after story. And that's where I think is going to lead us to good outcomes on the ground among real human beings and also I believe good policy as we move into 26 and 28 after some strong elections.
- [38:51]
B
Yeah, definitely. So I think that that is where the help is most needed. We don't need to plug in billions of dollars more to prop up political allies in communities that are defrauding the taxpay. I talked about this before but, but let's compare. We just talked about James Talarico in Texas. How about Ryan Bomberger to compare those two, two resumes. Ryan, I had the pleasure of, of getting to know a little bit on this very podcast.
- [39:25]
C
He's a hero. I am a huge fan.
- [39:28]
B
Yeah, he has a very compelling story and I think a winning story for the pro life movement. Ryan Bomberger, just in case you don't
- [39:36]
C
know man, look him up.
- [39:38]
B
Yeah, absolutely. He was conceived in rape, yet his mother chose life. He is a strong voice of what it means to, you know, to become and that is the thing that is what is lost in this conversation. Ryan Bomberger, because of the choice his mother made difficult. She gave him up for adoption. She knew that she couldn't handle being a mother at that time, but she chose goes life. And this young man, he's a young man to me has become such a powerful voice. He's an Emmy award winning creative producer of content. He's got a new book out. This is. These are the people that I think will serve as great messengers for life because their lives were absolutely at stake.
- [40:37]
C
No one knows, like he and I, what, what keeps me going every day is certainly the idea that every single person is sent to this world to do something that only they can do, never be repeated again. An individual creation. But it's the people you meet that almost didn't make it. Like Ryan, who, who, who has devoted his life to bringing, to paying it forward, bringing other people in the same way into the world that, that almost aren't going to make it. People who are by definition on the edge, who are living in the shadows. There's just nothing more beautiful in my estimation than someone who will give his life for a friend. Even friends you don't know sometimes.
- [41:22]
B
Yes, absolutely. All right. We close off our conversation with the question I always like to ask you like to ask many of my guests. It's four years and as you mentioned before, four years is just a few grains of sand. In 250 years of this exceptional republic, what are the next four years, 10 years look like for life after Dobbs?
- [41:48]
C
Well, you may not know this, but it's also the 160th year we're celebrating this month of the 14th amendment.
- [41:55]
B
Oh yes, absolutely.
- [41:56]
C
And so the next, I look at the next two to four years as being pivotal to what happens in those next 10. If in the next two and four years we can base our pro life leadership and when I say our, I mean our elected officials mainly I'm speaking of who the next President is and who the next Senate and House are, but especially the president leadership based on the 14th Amendment, the idea that we're all created equal, that you have inalienable rights. And if in the 14th Amendment, if those rights are not being honored in the states, it's the Congress's responsibility to protect those rights. So in the next handful of years it will be the job of that Lincolnian leader to get to a place where maybe stretch as far as we can consensus this and, and find a national limit that, that our country can pass. And where, where is that? I don't. Is it heartbeat, is it 12 weeks, is it. I don't know where it is, but I do believe that that has to be, that will be led and it has to happen. And if the state's only policy reigns, we will continue to see abysmal failure. No matter what happens, happens with abortion, drugs, they will, they will be very, very hard to stop no matter what we do. And it needs to be a national focus that is the work of the next 2, 4, 10 years where we can save hundreds of thousand lives of lives of people who we need, not just people who we'd like to have around, but they're sent here because we need them. If you have any sense of made in the image of God with purpose us, we know we need them. So that's what I think it's going to look like, or that's what I pray it does.
- [43:54]
B
Well, I think it's interesting that you mentioned Lincoln. I think it's interesting you mentioned the 160th anniversary of that critical 14th amendment. The guy who pushed for that, who led America through its, its crucible, its darkest hour, said this, this. I am naturally anti slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I cannot remember when I did not think so and feel. And I think that is extremely important in the context of what is right and what is wrong to you and, and to yours truly and so many others in America. Abortion is in that camp, that slavery that Americans battled for for so long. And finally the scourge, the great scourge was removed. And I think I feel the same way about abortion. The death culture in America.
- [44:59]
C
Amen. And you know, he also said a culture, a nation divided against itself on something so fundamental cannot endure. I really believe that's okay for everything you just said that that is the case.
- [45:13]
B
It cannot stand. And when he made that famous speech, he said he, he didn't foresee the union falling. It was either going to be all slavery or all free.
- [45:25]
C
That's right.
- [45:25]
B
That's right. That is the battle that you good folks are engaged in right now. Thanks to my guest today, Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America on life after Dobbs four years later. We'll be back soon with more on the Federalist Radio Hour. Until then, stay lovers of freedom, anxious for the fray.
- [46:07]
A
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