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Federalist Radio Hour
‘For Christ And Country’: Charlie Kirk And The Spiritual Battle For America’s Soul
00:47:46
On this episode of The Federalist Radio Hour, Drew Allen Thomas, author and host of The Drew Allen Show, joins Federalist Senior Elections Correspondent Matt Kittle to examine Charlie Kirk's faith-filled mission and explain what the Turning Point USA...
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- [00:18]
A
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the Federalist and your experience Sherpa on today's quest for knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio the federalist.com follow us on XDRLST. Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast and of course, to the premium version of our website as well. Our guest today is Drew Thomas, author of For Christ and Country the Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk. In it, Drew asserts that the left killed Charlie Kirk not with a single bullet, but with years of hatred, slander, and moral corruption that made his assassination inevitable. More so, Kirk's death was not an isolated act of violence, as we know, but the culmination of a toxic political movement that has gone mainstream, now fully embodied by the Democratic Party. Drew, thank you so much for joining us on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
- [01:25]
B
No, thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to talking to you about this.
- [01:28]
A
Yes, absolutely. This is in a year filled with big stories. This one was huge because I just think it took our collective breath away. I think it took the conservative movement's breath away. I think it took away the breath of those who knew Charlie Kirk and loved him. And even for some members of the left, although I think what we learned in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination is that we really are living in an assassination culture on the left. This was certainly quite an undertaking because, you know, you. You go from September 10th and, you know, putting this, this all together now, I, I know that you've been, you know, looking into examining the life of Charlie Kirk, a conservative icon. But this really hits home on. On all of those points.
- [02:35]
B
Yeah, it. I mean, I was Charlie's publicist last summer for Right Wing revolution. Yeah.
- [02:40]
A
But.
- [02:40]
B
But as I make clear in the book, I didn't know Charlie Kirk personally. You know, I've worked with a lot of famous people. Tulsi Gabbard, Dr. Ben Carson, Kerry Lake, a lot of people. And a lot of these people I have talked to and I have met. And some of them, like Christina Bob is a, you know, I consider her a friend. But Charlie was different because I didn't interact with him. And I think like millions of other people, I was struggling to process why his death devastated me in the way that he did. I mean, we, you know, the older you get, the more people die. I'm 38, and no death I've experienced in my life affected me like this. And part of it was it hit so close to home. I've got two young kids who are basically Charlie's kids age and as a matter of fact, Matt, I was the day Charlie Kirk died. You know, it's kind of like in the book I have a chapter called 910 is the new 9 11. And that's not to downplay 9 11. But you know, I, I remember where I was on 9 11. I was a freshman in high school. And I think a lot of people probably remember where they were when they learned the news about Charlie Kirk. And for me, I did something I rarely do. I accompanied my wife to pick up our two and a half year old from preschool. And we pulled into the parking lot and that's when I got the notification. And then as my wife went to retrieve our daughter, I was, you know, refreshing news feeds. I was looking on X and then I came across the video and your gut, everyone's got told them that it wasn't survivable. And as I was starting to process that, my wife is bringing the dot, my daughter towards the car and my daughter's running towards me and she's just, her face is lit up with joy, Matt. And she's just saying dada, Dada's in car. And I was just confronted with this duality. You know, here's my daughter that's so happy to see me and so innocent. And someone else's little girl, Charlie's girl and son would never have that experience again. And then to see the celebrations by the left, the mockery, it reminded me of 911 too, because more shocking to me, I think even in the towers falling was the jubilation in the streets in the Middle east by certain Muslims who were celebrating our collective pain. And I just realized, you know, this country, there's too much fear to confront the severity of the situation we have in the country. And we need to take it head on and we need to call it out. We need to hold people accountable. And you know, these weren't jihadists celebrating over in Pakistan. They were leftists that were politicians, they were news anchors, they were people I went to high school with that all showed such disregard for the life of a human being. A Christian, a father, a husband and an inspiration to so many millions. And that's what really gave birth to this book.
- [05:43]
A
Yeah, you're absolutely right. These weren't jihadist overseas. Some of them were jihadist here, unfortunately, because we know what's happened with the unvetted immigration failures of the auto Penn Bide era. All of that said these were Americans. These were people you went to high school with. These were people you're on a Facebook feed with, and you're saying, my God, these are teachers, these are professors. And they're saying this. They're celebrating the death, the assassination of this young man. Okay. And I say that because I know a lot of our listeners are a little long in the tooth, like yours truly. You know, I been around the. The block several times as a fella in my 50s, and it's the kind of stunning stuff that we have watched in this country over the years. A young man named John F. Kennedy, you know, who's shot right in front of us. And those images still remain with us, of course. And you go down the line of those. Those assassinations, those very public assassinations, and you talk about your kids, your little ones. There's Charlie Kirk's little ones. The last image that they have of their father is this horrifying murder that is committed at a college where Charlie Kirk is defending free speech, proselytizing for free speech, and for, more importantly, I think, his core beliefs, his faith in Jesus Christ, in God, in family, and in country. And that's really what your book comes down to?
- [07:32]
B
Yeah, it's. It's really, you know, I mean, part of the book is just my own personal testimony related to my own transformation as a Christian husband and. And father because of Charlie Kirk's amazing life he lived and then obviously, his death. And, you know, Charlie Kirk was so unique because he sought debate. He. He relished walking into hostile environments and talking to people. Most people don't have that courage and conviction. And I asked myself, why. Why didn't I have. I mean, I'm not tepid. I. You know, I have a podcast. I go on shows like this, and I talk about my beliefs, but there's still this fear that we have of. Of that type of action that Charlie Kirk undertook. And where did it come from? It came from his Christian faith, plain and simple. And, you know, he. He. It was just. It's. It was just remarkable to see the response after his death to the. The. It was global. I mean, you had the Prime Minister of Italy, Giorgio Maloney, you had others in South America, and you don't see reactions like this of grief, except in very rare cases, maybe Ronald Reagan's funeral or Billy Graham's crusades. And Charlie Kirk was important, obviously. He advised the president, advised many politicians, but he wasn't in that level of power himself. And that's often the case with martyrs, too.
- [09:05]
A
Yeah, no doubt. Were you Surprised the, at the, the vitriol though, from, from the left. I mean, let's face it, it was a little more than a year before that President Donald Trump, campaigning for a second term in office, was shot in a field in Pennsylvania during a campaign visit. We have now there's a, an interesting report that came out earlier this year from Rudkers, and it was about how 55% of those who identify as left leaning individuals believe that assassination of political figures on the right is certainly fine, you know, at least at some level. But were you still, were you surprised by what we saw, the reaction from the left?
- [09:59]
B
I'm always surprised and not surprised at the same time because you just have this hope that maybe the left will, you know, display some kind of decency, look in the mirror and accept some accountability or at least just stay quiet. And they couldn't do that. And I just, we have to confront this head on. I mean, the, the left today is not dissimilar from the radical left, is not dissimilar from radical Islamic. You know, look, the jihadists commit their acts of terrorism and murder in the name of religion. Radical leftist activists commit these acts of violence in the name of so called progress. That is a religion unto itself. And Charlie Kirk, one of the things that made him so special was his ability to do an autopsy on this cultural decay where it was coming from. And fundamentally it came because let me say this, first off, the left, all they do is propagandize. And we've heard these lies for so long about, you know, all episodes of extremist activity come from the right. And they do this by cooking the books, using the Anti Defamation League, excluding acts of prominent left wing terrorism and including obscure acts that don't have anything to do even with the ideology of conservatism or MAGA or you know, Christianity. And you know, the, the, the left, their rhetoric is leading to violence. You can draw a direct line. And you know, I, I just kept thinking of all these, you know, similarities. But I mean, first to get back to Charlie and what his autopsy was, you know, really it's not, it's not left versus right so much anymore as it is the God fearing versus the godless, in my opinion. And that is to say that Charlie would talk about, look, you know, what, us different, me different, the right, conservatives different is our belief in a transcendent power. We believe in moral absolutes. We accept that this nation has a Christian founding and that our freedoms flow from that. And on the left, they despise God. It's like communism. I mean, it is Marxism at this point, and therefore everything is relative. And so to take one issue, Matt, you know, Charlie Kirk was a huge advocate of the unborn, and there was no nuance in his position. I mean, it was, the unborn has the right to live and be protected. And so the left, as he would point out in these arguments and, well, debates with people on campus, you know, if, if you're 10 or 20, whatever, it doesn't matter how many weeks pregnant you are. You know, if a woman wants the baby, it's considered a viable, you know, a human being worthy of protection in life. If the woman doesn't want the baby, then it's just called a clump of cells and dismissed. And so if you understand and start with the abortion issue, you can begin to understand why the left is so predisposed to violence. It's not symmetrical. It's completely asymmetrical. It's all coming from the left. And to the left, Charlie Kirk was simply a clump of cells. You know, so morality isn't based on absolutes. It's just based on whatever justifies the behavior that you want. And of course, as a Christian, we're called to call out sin. It's not that we don't love people. Love, you know, calling out sin, addressing it, not condoning it, is an act of love. That's what Jesus taught us to do, and that's what Charlie did. And the left says those words are violence. And then when an actual act of violence takes the life, claims the life of Charlie Kirk, they would say that that was righteous, that it was good in the collective because Charlie Kirk was an evil monster, Hitler, Stalin, fascist, you know, all those names. And I'm just sick and tired of seeing this in the country. And there's no accountability whatsoever.
- [14:14]
A
Yeah. And I think that it is amazing the impact that Charlie Kirk in his, you know, just. Just over 30 plus years of life on, on this planet, how he was able to connect, particularly with a young audience. That's why he, he concentrated so much on college campuses. He knew that's where the battle lines were being drawn. He knew that we had to start fresh in our college campuses because the right in this country had ceded influence to the left in our institutions of higher education. And this society is paying dearly for that. But do you think that the left's hatred, almost demonic hatred for Charlie Kirk had something to do with his appeal to an increasing number of young people who I think are longing for exactly what you talk about in your book, you know, more than just this vast void of, you know, whatever feels good or, you know, the. There is no truth. You know, you're speaking your truth, as the left likes to say.
- [15:35]
B
Well, in their view, if you aren't one of them, you're an enemy to be destroyed. Let me draw another parallel between radical Islam and the radical left. Both are ideologies that demand complete surrender. They're ideologies about complete domination. And this is the radical lens through which they view the world and their opponents. And of course, they hated Charlie Kirk because he was effective. I mean, Charlie Kirk exposed, you know, I mean, it's their snake oil salesman. The. The left promises utopia, but delivers their recruits into darkness. And they can never lead any of their, you know, loyalists to actual peace and happiness because it's not designed to do so. It's designed to create constant victims and outrage and stir up anger. They don't want peace in the soul. Peace from the soul comes from Christ. It comes from Christianity. It comes from belief in something greater than yourself. And they don't believe in anything greater themselves. The Left, they are gods, right? This is how they view things. Charlie Kirk understood there is actually a God and there are bumpers up, you know, on, you know, what is acceptable and appropriate in terms of how we create a society and how we conduct ourselves. And Charlie Kirk would go to these young people and he would show them a better path. He would show them a path that would ultimately lead them to actual fulfillment. So you've got all these disillusioned, angry people who have been indoctrinated by the left and told that, you know, this is the path to enlightenment. But they never feel enlightened, they never feel happy. And this in itself is a vicious cycle that eventually leads to violence because you get angrier and angrier if you. If you're a farmer and you're sitting on a barren patch of soil, and every season you repeatedly try to plant in that soil. Over time, you're going to become frustrated, and that frustration is going to lead to anger, rage, and that's what's happening. And so Charlie Kirk had the antidote to all of that. Some of it, of course, was political in nature in terms of policies, you know, affecting the black community, for example, that is, keeping them victims. Policies regarding the border, regarding the economy, things like this. But others were spiritual antidotes. And it was saying, hey, you know what? I'll tell you what brings you fulfillment. It's not what the left says, you know, to women that you should, you know, Pursue careers at the cost of family and children? No. Get married, have kids, raise a family. These, these, you know, historically, throughout history, we know these things create stable societies, and the left is tearing those things down. And it's not surprising. They, they lead to unrest and turmoil. So he was so, he was such a genius and so articulate and so studied and honestly, he was so compassionate that he was able to. To bring those people out of darkness. And that's taking away from the left's ranks. And they couldn't abide it.
- [19:01]
A
Pay it off.
- [19:02]
C
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- [19:34]
A
He tirelessly fought for the First Amendment and the right to speak, which had been closed down in so many quarters, still in so many ways, is closed down. And, you know, it's not just here. You think about this week, a Christian woman, pro life Catholic, who had silently prayed in the streets across the street from an abortion clinic, was arrested and charged with violating the speech cop laws over there. She'd been down this road before. I mean, you know, we look at them, we say, my goodness, that's. That's the United Kingdom. How could that happen? Well, that has happened here. That is happening here. It's a little better time for Christians in America than it had been, but it's a grave concern all around. And Charlie really wanted to carry that banner to say, you don't have to be afraid to be a Christian. You don't have to be embarrassed about being a Christian. But that's what we see so much in this society. Well, I don't want to offend anybody. Charlie wasn't about protecting people's feelings. But what do you think about those who described him and categorized him as a racist for taking on some, some very difficult truths that they didn't want to hear.
- [21:08]
B
He wasn't a racist. He was the opposite of that. You know, he looked at black, at the black communities that are being afflicted by the social policies of the last 60, 70 years, and he wanted them to have success. And he knew that the current structure and what the left had done and the Democrat party had done to the black community had destroyed it. It's not conjecture, it's just statistical. There's evidence of it. It's objective fact. The black family has just been destroyed by left wing policies, these social policies and welfare. And you combine that with, I mean, welfare one, as he would explain, you know, I mean, it's not designed to get you out of poverty. It's designed to keep you in poverty, to discourage you from improving your circumstances. And of course, all of these beliefs come from Christian faith. We are all made in the image of God. Race is irrelevant. And you know, that message was misconstrued. You know, one of the big things he attacked him on was, you know, he didn't quite do the full Rush Limbaugh, which is, you know, pointing out the absurd with the absurd, as he would say. But when, when you had the DEI hires and, and I had, I, I knew pilots on Southwest and other airlines that were telling me, man, hey, if I were to tell you what's going on in these cockpits, you would never get on a plane again because you were lowering the standards for, for example, minorities. So that would include black pilots. In order to increase the number of black pilots. It should be based on excellence. Now you're denigrating black people as well by doing that. Because the message is, you know, hey, if you're black, you're not smart enough, you're not the equal of this other candidate who happens to be white, for example, so we're going to lower the standards to permit you entry, that doesn't inspire one, any black individual to strive for excellence. It excuses the opposite settling. And furthermore, it raises suspicion. So the obvious out, you know, outcome of that is that it creates actually racism. Because if it's known that you're hiring black pilots on lower standards because of diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives, if any person, including a black person, walks on a plane and they see a black pilot, you're going to think, and Charlie said something to this effect, like, wow, I don't want to be on this plane. He wasn't being racist.
- [23:36]
A
Not at all.
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B
The left were the racists and he was calling them out.
- [23:39]
A
Yeah, no doubt about it. And we have seen, unfortunately, whether the left or people who just don't want to rock the boat don't fully understand. We have seen equity kill people in this country. And Charlie said, wait a minute, let's consider that. Let's consider what? Walking away from merit based hiring, merit based recruiting, all of that does. When did you. Obviously the book came out of the events of September 10th, but had you been thinking about this book for a while or did it really just strike you, what, as you mentioned before and you began the writing soon thereafter.
- [24:30]
B
So I haven't even explained this to anyone before in an interview. But actually. So I wrote a book in August, you know, my wife and took the kids down to see grandma and I was left a bachelor for a couple of weeks actually. And I did what any 38 year old guy who has kids would do in that situation. I spent all my time writing a book. And that book was on, that was, that was on Trump Russia collusion based on the declassified documents. And that was very important to me. That's going to come out in March. I actually sidelined that book after Charlie was killed because I thought this one was more important because I wanted to address. And let me be clear about something too. I'm really, I don't want to say disparaged, but I'm really disappointed in what the conservative movement has kind of done in the three months since Charlie Kirk's assassination. And what I mean by that is there was a fragile window after he was, he was murdered to have serious conversations that we avoid in this country, mainly related to left wing violence in this country and that ideology that is brewing it. I mean, you had a copycat attack a week after Charlie Kirk's assassination in Dallas, a guy that tried to take out ICE agents and ICE is being demonized as well. So you can see the connection between rhetoric and violence on the left. And we didn't have many of those conversations. In fact, we really didn't have those conversations at any national level. People were peddling conspiracy theories. They were trying to tear down Charlie Kirk's legacy. And it was really disgusting to me. And that was happening even after I wrote the book. It was really coming to fruition. So kind of the silver lining and the decision to just really go hard on this book and talk about these issues was that I think this book offers a course correction that says, look, let's refocus on Charlie's legacy and what we need to do to pick up the slack. You know, there's a lot of rope hanging out there now because he was such a giant and no one can replace him, but we can emulate his example and the example of Christ as well, which is what Charlie did his best to emulate, especially in the later years of his life. And we need to learn from his example and pursue it. We need to Become bold and courageous. We need to put our faith first, and from that we'll have conviction. And, you know, Charlie Kirk wasn't always Charlie Kirk, Matt. He became Charlie Kirk because he had a hunger for truth, a hunger for self improvement. And, you know, a lot of us don't spend that amount of time on ourselves and have clear goals and objectives like he did. So. So, no, I mean, and I didn't, you know, I didn't intend to write a book right away. I just found, like, I. I wrote a book the day Charlie Kirk died, which is in the book that. That became kind of the first chapter of the book. And that was just me wrestling with what I said in the beginning of the show. Like this devastation I was feeling and the tears I was crying, and I don't cry and trying to process all that. And from that grief, you know, I articulated what a lot of people felt, millions of people who didn't know Charlie either personally. And then I felt like an obligation to address these issues that we need to talk about. A reckoning hasn't come, but it needs to come.
- [27:52]
A
Indeed. Our guest today is Drew Thomas, author of For Christ and Country, the Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk. The other book, by the way, as well, sounds fascinating. I hope, you know, you have a standing invitation to come back and talk to us because as you probably well know, the Federalist has been very interested and has spent a good deal of time writing about the whole Russia collusion hoax and all of that, and we're getting a better picture of that. But I think that issue kind of feeds into everything that we are experiencing with the. The modern left is that the truth is relative once again, and that lies can be used justifiably to further the truth that they want in the burning down and the recreation of a republic that many, unfortunately loathe. And that's where we have been for some time. And that's why I think 2024 happened the way that it did, because there clearly truly is a disaffection with what a lot of Americans have experienced over the last several years. The whole idea that this is a. An inherently racist nation, that it is systemically racist, and if you're white, you are automatically racist. And there. There's nothing you can do about that. And we need to find ways to stop. You know, oppression is the big word. And, you know, a lot of people are feeling oppressed about all of that in that mentality. And so I think you're right. I really do, Drew, that we had an opportunity in after Charlie's death. And I think you remember the memorial service and the, you know, the thousands who turned out and the messages that we were hearing across the country. And then it just went away. All of a sudden, I think about, there's a government shutdown, you know, basically right around the corner, which there always is, and it's just back to normal. Why? Why is that? Why can't we sustain on the conservative side of things, something that was just so fundamentally altering in our lives?
- [30:27]
B
Well, it's because a lot of people we thought were allies in the conservative movement have actually proven themselves to be saboteurs of the movement. And people know who I'm talking about. I don't even need to name their name. I'm not afraid to name their names. But people can just decide for themselves who these people are. But they were the ones that refused to. Except that the killer was who the FBI and a rational mind could see was likely the killer based on evidence. You know, the son of, you know, conservative family, Mormons, who was steeped in radical, you know, leftist ideology, was dating a, you know, trans person at a trans partner. And, you know, I mean, there was ample. You don't, you don't have to even believe the FBI to Occam's Razor. I mean, you know, I. I just. I can't believe what they did to get Erica Kirk involved. And, you know, I'll say her name, I don't care. I've written articles about it, too. But, you know, Candace in particular.
- [31:40]
A
Yeah, right.
- [31:41]
B
You know, what she's done is just, just so wrong. I mean, in all these insinuations and theories that she claims she'll bring receipts for. And the theories change by the hour. And each time she introduces a new theory, it's proof that she lied before. But she was pointing the finger at Erica Kirk and people around tposa. And there may very well be issues within tpusa. I mean, there's a power struggle, probably, and things like that, and I pray for them, and I want them to have nothing but success. But the idea that, oh, the Jews killed Charlie Kirk, this rampant anti Semitism that is brewing in this country, where the Jews are behind every single thing that happens. I mean, we don't need this right now. It's a distraction. And the conversation could have been even from Candace, who claimed to have been such a great friend of Charlie's, which I know actually isn't true, maybe at one point in her life, but, you know, not later, recently, you know, if she loved Charlie Kirk like she said, to and was so upset by this. She should have talked about what Charlie stood for. She should have, you know, promoted his legacy by talking about the things that were important to him and so on. And that didn't happen. And, you know, I, I don't want to just reset to what it was before. I mean, I'm tired of this. I mean, look, Rand Paul's ribs were broken by a Democrat neighbor. You had a Bernie Sanders supporter who shot up a congressional, you know, Republican baseball team practicing and nearly killed Steve Scalise. You had a trans later who came out as trans individual who traveled all the way from California to Maryland with the intention of assassinating Justice Kavanaugh because of the Roe v. Wade, a decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. You have a Trump assassination attempt. I mean, there are more examples. You have trans people that, you know, are targeting Christian schools and their manifestos. Matt, this is not hyperbole. It's in the book too. And it's, I bring receipts. Things are cited, their manifestos, like Audrey Hales in the covenant case in Nashville. It reads like a Barack Obama speech. It reads like a Joe Biden speech. It reads like a CNN panel on, you know, attacking white people. And I'm just fed up with it. And I don't know why enough people don't have the courage to address the left as they are. You know, I don't want my girls to, you know, live in a country that tolerates this, and I'm not going to tolerate it. And the one thing that Charlie's Kirk death did for me, which I imagine people in your audience feel this way too, it really, it really killed the man I was too, before Charlie's death and rebuilt a new me. And that's just somebody who, I don't want to say takes things more seriously. I've taken things seriously in this country. But I have a new courage to, to really steady myself in scripture, to embrace, you know, what God has called me to be and to let the residual fear of attacks from the left or the condemnation of man be more important to me than the applause of God. And I hope that that's the case for Christians in this country because there's more than 200 million of us that claim to be Christian in this country. And obviously many believe in something other than the Bible. They're woke churches and whatnot. But if we actually dug in and were Bible based and lived our life authentically as Christians, we'd be an unstoppable force.
- [35:19]
A
Yes, indeed. Do you look over your shoulder a little more often in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination.
- [35:30]
B
I don't. But I could see myself doing that in the. In the relatively near future. You know, I don't. I don't feel fear right now. And I, you know, I don't, you know, I don't want people to be like, oh, you know, I, you know, I don't want to die. You know, I mean, I. I love my family so much, and I still, like. It's hard not to tear up thinking about Charlie's family and kids. But I, I think if you. If you do what Charlie did and you really make your life faith centered, you don't fear it. You know, I don't think Charlie, you know, feared it. He didn't want to die, but he knew it was possible. And that's one of the things that makes him a martyr as well. But, you know, I mean, I'll be honest with you right now, like, I. I've never been. A.J. rice, my. My boss at Publius, you know, he. He says I'm being hunted right now because Amazon's actually censored this book three times now. It's actually not available on Amazon. I mean, people can try and go buy it. I think it'll let you go buy. And then it says, you know, can't ship to the address, but it doesn't matter what address you put in there, you can't buy it. I think the only place to buy it right now is on. On Target. And, you know, they're giving. There's a whole nother conversation we could have for an hour about what Amazon's claiming to be the reason. Yeah, yeah, well, it's censorship. But what, what there's like. So I've been an author for a long time. I've written, you know, four books. And they're saying. And they can't prove any of this. They use models, but they're saying, oh, this is an AI book. And so now, Now. So I, you know, I wrote this book to, you know, confront these issues that haven't been addressed. And now I find myself possibly having to split my time in future interviews addressing something I never thought about, which is backdoor censorship, which is, you know, they can say that, you know, something's, you know, utilized AI, which is a new tool, by the way. You wouldn't penalize a mathematician for using a calculator. And I've written books before AI. This is the first time I used AI for research and, you know, copy editing and things like that. It's a tool that writers are going to use. I mean, it's, it's here. And so now I'm like a case study on, you know, this whole thing. I mean, you've got Michelle Obama who wrote Becoming, and she didn't write Becoming, a ghostwriter wrote Becoming. You know. No, nobody cares. And so it's not true that this is an AI written book, but I'm not gonna lie and say that I didn't utilize AI as a research assistant and in the production of it I did. But anybody can read the book and decide for themselves if it's an AI book. Right? I mean it's like the free. So anyway, that's, that's what's going on. And you know, I, I, I don't know why the Charlie Kirk book in particular is being targeted like this. You know, my publisher is Post Hill Press. They've done a lot of big books, including two of Charlie Kirk's books. And I'm an established author who've written, you know, dozens of op EDS before the advent of AI so it's just kind of shocking now I'm like, wow. So first it, you know, so anyway, so this is where we are just Matt, full transparency, man. I've never experienced something like this in my life. It's really, it's really tough.
- [38:41]
A
But isn't it something that you're dealing with this, and this is what Charlie Kirk spent of his life fighting the sort of censorship. I mean, we just came out of a period of just dark, dark government driven censorship that I don't think has fully been exposed. We know about the Twitter files. We know about what was happening with the Biden administration and Fauci and Covid. We know about publications like the Federalist that have been, you know, absolutely attacked, shut off from, you know, the main distribution channels by these, these, you know, so called watchdogs of what is proper and, and appropriate content. So we've, we've lived a lot. So none of this should come as a surprise. But are you concerned that what we have seen from some of our conservative leaders out there, especially as we watch the world of politics kind of retreat again, that we could lose the gains that we have in 2026 because Charlie Kirk is gone and who is filling the void of people like Charlie Kirk and who is really going to ex to inspire the conservative grassroots movement to say, hey, I know Trump's not on the ballot, but there's a lot at stake in 26?
- [40:14]
B
Yeah, I think the solution right now is not to look for another leader like Charlie Kirk, to kind of hold this movement together, I think that individuals need to operate a little bit more independently now. I think they need to look at themselves as leaders. You know, you're never going to replace Charlie. You're definitely not going to come close, you know, before midterms. And, you know, people need to look at these midterm elections with the same importance they viewed the presidential election of 2024, because it's all on the line right now. And, you know, you know, God bless Donald Trump, man, what a force of nature he is. He's done so much good despite the fact that, you know, we have these narrow majorities and the Senate won't confirm many of his, his, you know, choices. I mean, you know, a lot of the reason that people voted for Trump is they wanted accountability. The left calls it revenge. We want accountability, and, you know, we can't get it because the, you know, courts are, you know, using loopholes regarding, you know, temporary, you know, placements of, you know, whether it's Alina Haber or, you know, others out there. And, you know, the Senate's not doing its job. I mean, you've got Marjorie Taylor Greene, who claims to be a hero, but is not a hero. She's can't even stick it out for her two year term here. And it's a heck of a time to jump ship. And I think that people need to get serious about what's at stake. Because, look, if the Democrats get the House, enjoy impeachment, you know.
- [41:48]
A
Yeah, right.
- [41:49]
B
Enjoy endless impeachment, God forbid they were to get the sentence. I mean, I don't think that's gonna happen, but I always prefer to operate as an underdog. So I just, I, if, if, you know. Yeah. All the Charlie Kirk stuff we've talked about. So important. So is this, you know, just please, please. I just, I, I beg people out there start thinking seriously about these midterms and treat it like a presidential election because, you know, this opportunity that we won for ourselves, that we fought for, doesn't come along very often. We earned this, we fought for this, and we will squander it if 2026 is not defended.
- [42:31]
A
All right, final question for you. Because, you know, much of what you write about is not really politics. It's spirituality. It is core morality. It's the thing that I think has bound this country together for 250 years. And it seems like it is absolutely tearing apart at the seams. So given what I thought was just a remarkable and miraculous time following Charlie Kirk's assassination, where you had so many people now rediscovering and asking, where am I in my life? Where am I with my God? Where am I in. In, you know, my path in life? And why do I feel so empty? So more and more people returning to the Christian church, to Christianity, is. Do you see that being sustained? Is that Charlie Kirk's maybe biggest legacy? All the. All the people that he brought to at least thinking about God. And what happens now to Turning Point usa, particularly with folks like Candace Owens roiling the waters?
- [43:48]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, TPUSA is just going to be in a fight for a while. And, you know, I just pray that everyone at tpusa, you know, puts ego aside if that should come up or is coming up, and just really focus on the work that Charlie did. You know, it's just. It's hard to keep an organization like that going because if, you know, people in the organization, it was. It was Charlie, you know what I mean? And there's just no replacement for him. Not like that. I think this is sustainable. You know, I just. Bible sales people, you know, craving that thing that they couldn't identify that was missing from their life, which turns out to be faith and belief in God, Christianity, it's. It's surging. And I'm a personal example that, you know, I've been in Christian my whole life. Kind of an autopilot Christian, though, at times. And, you know, I've changed since Charlie's death, and I haven't gone back to the person I was before. So I think that's testimony. And I'm not the only person, you know, if that's happened to me. The next step, though, is activism. You know, it's just prepare yourselves to be in a cafe and for some atheists to just walk up to your table and want to learn about Jesus Christ. And if you can't talk intelligibly about that, you're not ready. You got work to do. And that's me. So I've been reading so much history of the church and digging into my Bible, you know, and the Gospels and, you know, really studying the history of them and mounting these. You know, I love the apologetics, Right. The defense of Christianity, you know, which is. And that's what I want to become. That's what this nation needs, and that's what we need of people listening if they're so inclined.
- [45:33]
A
Yeah, it was a moment in time that I think we will remember as a marker, certainly September 10, 2025, where we go from here, of course, that remains to be seen. But I think Charlie Kirk planted good seeds in his life. He was a great communicator and a messenger not only for this constitutional republic, but for his Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. That is. That is really where all of this hits the bone.
- [46:16]
B
Amen, Matt. Amen. I mean, that's. That's why he's so big. It's not because the politics, it's because of his Christianity. That's what resonated so strong with me. It's not the other stuff. It's that he was a living example of what a Christian, including him, you know, strived to be and should strive to be. And I didn't say something Matt earlier because it's like doom and gloom, like, oh, I'm being censored, you can't get the book, and all that sort of stuff. I mean, I think people are feeling this and it's swirling in their minds, but. And if I think that they can get the book at Target online. So if you get a Target, you can get it, I think right now, hopefully. Yeah.
- [46:50]
A
Very good. It's very compelling and you know it. We need to take a look at where we've been and where we've going. And as we like to say here, we need to be anxious for the fray. I'm about to do that again, as a matter of fact, thanks to my guest today, Drew Thomas, author of For Christ and Country, the Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk. You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray. I heard the faint voice of reason and then it faded away.