Federalist Radio Hour – “The Children-First Case To Overturn Obergefell”

Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Matt Kittle, Senior Elections Correspondent at The Federalist
Guest: Katie Faust, Founder and President of Them Before Us, Spokeswoman for the Greater Than Campaign

Episode Overview

This episode features a critical discussion on the impact of the 2015 Supreme Court ruling Obergefell v. Hodges, which legalized same-sex marriage nationwide. Host Matt Kittle and guest Katie Faust delve into the argument that Obergefell has had significant negative impacts on children’s rights and well-being, advocating for a children-first approach in marriage and family law. Faust outlines her campaign—Greater Than—which seeks to overturn Obergefell by reframing the debate around children's rights rather than adult desires or validation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Framing the Debate: From Adult Rights to Children’s Rights

• Katie Faust emphasizes that the original Obergefell decision—and most public arguments—were focused on adult rights and dignity, not the needs or rights of children.
• Quote:
  “We were told, I mean, gay marriage was passed on the line, that this has nothing to do with kids…But what we've seen...is so many pictures of motherless babies in hospitals on the hairy chest of men who may or may not be related…A lot of this is happening under the banner of, and certainly with the legal endorsement of the redefinition of parenthood that was part and parcel of the redefinition of marriage.” (03:33)

Shifts in Public Opinion and “Vibe Shift”

• Republican support for gay marriage dropped significantly after peaking in 2022-23.
• The “vibe shift”: emotional manipulation and name-calling have lost efficacy in silencing critics.
• Quote:
  “Your emotional manipulation tactics don’t work on me anymore...We've never liked it, and we're not going to pretend like we like it anymore. You can say whatever you want about me, but the answer is no.” (06:14)

The Core Mission of the Greater Than Campaign

• Advocates reframing questions before courts: focus on whether children’s own mother and father benefit them more than any state-assigned adult.
• Quote:
  “We're going to bring them cases that say, do a child's own mother and father benefit them in ways that a state assigned adult does not. We're going to change the entire question that they're being asked.” (14:45)

The Science: Disputing Claims of “No Difference”

• Critique of 75 out of 79 frequently-cited studies claiming children in same-sex households fare no worse; these studies are said to suffer from poor methodology and bias.
• Gold-standard studies (Mark Regnerus, Dr. Paul Sullins) suggest significantly worse outcomes for children raised by same-sex parents, including increased risk of emotional distress, academic struggles, and abuse.
• Quote:
  “When you actually apply the gold standard method of the scientific method...that no difference actually becomes massive difference.” (22:05)
• Institutional resistance and lack of funding for dissenting research, leading to underreporting of negative findings.

Erosion of the Natural Family and Parental Rights

• Changes in the law have replaced “mother” and “father” with generic terms like “guardian” or “parent,” diminishing recognition of biological ties.
• Adoption and biology have been replaced or minimized by “intent-based parenting,” seen as state-sanctioned trafficking by critics.
• Quote:
  “We have created new pathways in the name of adult equality for unrelated adults to take possession of infants...It's actually just state-sanctioned trafficking.” (36:44)

Societal & Cultural Concerns: Commodification of Children

• The trend is described as treating children as commodities for adult fulfillment, with potential exploitation by unrelated adults, including through surrogacy or intent-based parenthood.
• Quote:
  “That means that children are commodities to be awarded to any and every adult.” (43:17)

The Link to Broader Societal Changes and Marxism

• The movement is compared to Marxist efforts to separate children from their biological parents, enhancing state power.
• Quote:
  “If the government can decide who is and is not a parent...it is much more easy for them to unassign you as the biological parents, as the legal parents of your own biological children.” (36:44)

Next Steps for Greater Than

• Judicial strategy: crafting court challenges that focus on children’s rights.
• Public opinion: turning the conversation from adult validation to child protection, using influencers and impactful storytelling.
• Mobilizing churches: equipping Christian leaders to advocate for child-centric family policies.
• Quote:
  “We are going to change the way Americans think about marriage. We are going to communicate this is not primarily about adult emotional validation. This is about child protection.” (46:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On reframing the narrative:
  “We often say it then before us, the victim determines the policy. So whoever frames themselves as the victim, the policy is going to wrap around them...when we get marriage policy wrong, they're not the victims. Children are the victims. And that's the way we're going to change not just law, but...public opinion.” (09:40)

• On the perceived institutional bias:
  “There has been absolute widespread institutional capture across the social sciences. It's hard to get funding and...approval. And even if you did get it published, ask Dr. Regneris how that went for him. They absolutely tried to destroy him.” (27:15)

• On the ideological evolution:
  “It was about advancing the next wave of liberation and equality...Where's our campaign? Where's our chance to fight for the marginalized and most vulnerable? And gay marriage served that up on a plate.” (34:40)

• On the impact of legal changes:
  “If biology doesn’t matter, if gender does not matter, if children don’t have a claim to their own mother and father, if intent and contracts are the only thing that makes you a parent, then you can mass produce [children]. Pedophiles can acquire them, retirees can raise their own caregivers. All of that is what you get when you legalize gay marriage.” (43:17)

• On the campaign’s confidence:
  “I feel very confident that when we have this question, when we look at this issue through the lens of putting kids first, we're going to see a lot of clarity both in the culture and in the courtroom.” (46:56)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:20] Faust: The harm Obergefell has caused to children
• [03:33] Discussion of polling shifts and emotional manipulation in advocacy
• [06:14] “Vibe shift” away from name-calling and emotional appeals
• [09:40] Victim framing and campaign strategy
• [14:24] Changing legal questions posed to the Supreme Court
• [16:54] Scrutiny of the scientific studies on same-sex parenting outcomes
• [22:05] In-depth on Mark Regnerus and Paul Sullins studies
• [27:15] Challenges in funding and publishing dissenting research
• [34:40] Rise in children identifying as LGBTQ and social contagion theories
• [36:44] Critique of changes in legal and societal definitions of parenthood
• [43:17] Effects on language and law (removal of “mother/father”), commodification
• [46:56] Greater Than campaign: goals and next steps

Conclusion

The episode positions the Greater Than campaign as a new front in conservative activism, aiming to shift marriage debates from adult-centered rights to child-centered protections. It challenges prevailing scientific and cultural narratives, arguing for legal and societal prioritization of biological child-parent bonds and a restoration of traditional marital norms to safeguard children.

For more, visit GreaterThanCampaign.com or explore the “Them Before Us” Substack for research deep dives.