Podcast Summary

Federalist Radio Hour, ‘The Kylee Cast’ feat. Emma Waters, Ep. 36: A Biblical Alternative To Tradwifing
Date: April 9, 2026
Host: Kylie Griswold
Guest: Emma Waters (Heritage Foundation Policy Analyst; author of Lead Like Jael: 7 Timeless Principles for Today's Women of Faith)

Episode Theme

This episode centers around Lead Like Jael: 7 Timeless Principles for Today's Women of Faith, discussing what biblical femininity looks like, engaging with contemporary cultural movements (from feminism to “tradwife” trends), and exploring how scriptural women—particularly Jael—provide principles for faithful modern womanhood. The conversation delves into discernment, shrewdness, marriage, motherhood, wisdom, and how to live out one’s calling as a woman of faith in a complex culture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction and Guest Background ([00:30]-[02:46])

• Kylie Griswold introduces Emma Waters, highlighting her expertise in policy (IVF, surrogacy, family policy) and her new book.
• Emma Waters offers personal context:
  • Policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation.
  • Writes and speaks in Christian and policy venues.
  • Married with two daughters and a third on the way.
  • Lives in Pittsburgh; husband is in seminary.

Who is Jael? And Why Her? ([02:49]-[04:46])

• Emma retells Jael’s story (Judges 4-5): Jael kills the Canaanite general, thus fulfilling Deborah's prophecy that victory would come from a woman.

  • "Jael, is entering into the long line of female head-crushers in the Bible." (Emma, [05:20])

• Not promoting violence, but extracting spiritual lessons:

  • Jael represents biblical femininity’s strength, resourcefulness, and faithfulness.
  • She uses distinctly feminine tools (domestic tent peg, mallet) to fulfill her calling, showing how ordinary, “mundane” domestic faithfulness can enable extraordinary acts.
  • Jael isn’t disengaged ("not just a man’s job") nor radical (“not a social justice warrior”), but embodies engagement, wisdom, and preparedness in the home.

Quote:
"She neither took on the feminist line of, 'I'm going to be just like a man, pick up a sword and run into battle,' ... but on the other hand, she doesn't fulfill some of the tradwife motifs that we see today..." (Emma, [07:21])

Seven Timeless Principles ([10:02]-[11:12])

• Emma’s book explores:

  1. Discernment
  2. Shrewdness
  3. Resourcefulness
  4. Hospitality
  5. Marriage as a battlemate
  6. Motherhood as warfare
  7. The role of older/wiser women

• Each chapter highlights a different biblical woman.

• Jael chosen for the cover because she’s “an unconventional and unexpected vision of biblical femininity” and counters both shallow church “girly” stereotypes and feminist misreadings.

Quote:
"I want to find a way that’s truly feminine and yet fight a very real, very powerful, very hard battle. And Jael was just such an incredible embodiment..." (Emma, [11:53])

The Importance of Discernment ([13:04]-[15:52])

• Toxic empathy and emotional manipulation are key issues used to sway women from biblical truth.
• Discernment is foundational: it protects against substituting emotion for truth (as Eve did in Eden) and the perversion of sympathy or nurturing.
• Lack of discernment leads to “winsome”/“Third Way” Christianity: a faith reshaped by culture, not gospel.
• “The enemy is not someone to play footsie with...we mortify that sin…” (Kylie, [16:26])

The Maiden, Mother, Matriarch Trifecta ([17:38]-[22:33])

• Historic/Scriptural model of female development:

  • Maiden (youthful, open to possibility)
  • Mother (in authority, applying lessons in new contexts)
  • Matriarch (mentor, wise leadership)

• It’s about wisdom and orientation—not strictly life stage or biological status.

• Modern culture idolizes perpetual “maidenhood” (arrested development), rejects motherhood as fruitful, and undervalues matriarchal wisdom.

• Practical implication: "You want to faithfully give your best to each season so that one day you can look back and say...I have fought the race faithfully..." (Emma, [22:19])

Lady Wisdom vs. Lady Folly ([23:06]-[27:01])

• Proverbs offers two archetypes: Lady Wisdom (prepares, invests, calls to virtue) vs. Lady Folly (lazy, seductive, offers shortcuts like "water and stolen bread").
• Lady Folly persuades women to forsake biblical stages for perpetual youth, or to avoid fruitful roles.
• Practical example: Media mocks prioritizing marriage/motherhood early, preferring career ("feminism for thee, but not for me").
• "Young women...hear it and...it's deeply confusing...a complete inversion of who a matriarch should be." (Emma, [26:47])

Information vs. Wisdom ([27:36]-[30:29])

• Culture is saturated with information but lacks wisdom and discernment—confusing data with depth.
• Women especially susceptible to this via social media sound bites and regurgitated content.
• “You can know every fact about the apple, but it actually takes wisdom and discernment to know how to use the apple in a given situation.” (Emma, [29:50])

Shrewdness—Scriptural & Modern Application ([33:06]-[41:56])

• Shrewdness: “as innocent as a dove and shrewd as a serpent” ([33:28]).

  • Not license for manipulation or deceit, but wise, godly navigation under evil structures.

• Examples:

  • Amy Carmichael: Used strategic disguise and negotiation to rescue girls from temple slavery.
  • Biblical: Egyptian midwives (“feared God more than man”), Miriam, Rebecca, Esther—all act shrewdly in dire situations.

• Modern:

  • Pro-life activists going undercover.
  • Sex trafficking investigations.

• Shrewdness is for protecting the innocent, revealing evil—especially when other avenues are closed.

Quote:
“Oftentimes women who legitimately at that point then had no other means of recourse...[had] to fight within the means given to her." (Emma, [42:04])

Shrewdness vs. Feminist Rage ([42:39]-[45:14])

• Feminist discourse often valorizes “rage” as women's power—but neuroscientifically, rage is unsustainable, clouds judgment, and is antithetical to wisdom ("You can be shrill or you can be shrewd," [42:49]).
• Wisdom is learned, measured, sustainable, and impactful; rage is fleeting, leaves women exhausted, and doesn't effect lasting change.

Marriage: Girl Boss vs. Tradwife & Biblical Alternative ([45:14]-[48:32])

• Tradwife ideology (#tradwife) is a reaction to “girl boss” feminism. Both, however, offer rigid definitions of woman's worth—careerist or domestic.
• Emma sees the polarized dichotomy itself as unhealthy; instead, scripture champions integration:
  • “First things first,” but “honoring first things doesn’t mean you can’t do anything else.”
• Most women fall between “girl boss” and “tradwife” extremes—seeking purposeful lives, enriched homes, and fruitful work.

Practicals for Women Wanting Change ([48:32]-[52:27])

• Assess your season: Married or single? Children? Age? What first things require your energy now?
• Be honest: Are you shunning marriage/kids for career? Or vice versa?
• For mothers: Presence in the home during early years is vital; working to pay for daycare often defeats the relational benefit.
• Marriage: See husband as “battle mate,” not adversary ("How are you as a wife...working to build up and empower your husband to be the most effective he can be at the thing God has called him to?" — Emma, [52:02]).

Memorable Quotes and Timestamps

• On Jael & Biblical Femininity:
  “She neither took on the feminist line of, 'I'm going to be just like a man, pick up a sword and run into battle,' ... but on the other hand, she doesn't fulfill some of the tradwife motifs that we see today…” (Emma, [07:21])

• On Discernment:
  “If truth is not grounded in the word of God, then it will always be susceptible to the cultural whims and norms.” (Emma, [15:43])

• On Information vs. Wisdom:
  "You can know every fact about the apple, but it actually takes wisdom and discernment to know how to use the apple in a given situation." (Emma, [29:50])

• On Shrewdness:
  “You want to be as innocent as a dove and shrewd as a serpent.” (Emma, [33:28])

• On Marriage & Tradwife Culture:
  “Both [girl boss feminism and tradwife movement] tend to present this very rigid depiction...and yet, in pursuing those first things first...it doesn't mean you can't work flexible...jobs...It’s just a question of what comes first in your life and what fuels the rest…” (Emma, [47:44])

• On Mentor Role:
  “You want to faithfully give your best to each season so that one day you can look back and say with great satisfaction and contentment...I have fought the race faithfully...” (Emma, [22:19])

Notable Segment Timestamps

• [03:12] – Jael’s story in Judges and its spiritual implications
• [05:20] – The biblical lineage of “female head-crushers”
• [10:02] – Seven timeless principles overview
• [13:04] – Why discernment is first and foundational for women
• [17:38] – Maiden, Mother, Matriarch trifecta explained
• [23:06] – Lady Wisdom vs. Lady Folly and cultural counterfeits
• [27:36] – Information overload vs. true wisdom
• [33:06] – Shrewdness in scripture and modern activism
• [42:39] – Why shrewdness, not rage, is biblical power
• [45:14] – Tradwife trends, girl boss culture, and the biblical “third way”
• [48:32] – Practical steps for women reevaluating their priorities and roles
• [52:02] – The “battle mate” vision of marriage

Conclusion

Emma Waters provides a rich, biblically grounded perspective on womanhood, rejecting both cultural feminism and simplistic tradwife labels. Instead, she advocates for a nuanced, Scripture-rooted approach that champions discernment, shrewdness, and faithfulness to one’s season in life—whether as a maiden, mother, or matriarch. The episode is filled with practical insights for modern women navigating an often confusing cultural landscape.

Find Emma’s book at major retailers (Barnes & Noble, Walmart, Target), and her writing at the Heritage Foundation, X (@emlwaters), and The Federalist.