Podcast Episode Summary

The Kylee Cast feat. Frank DeVito, Ep. 26: "What Does A Vance GOP Look Like?"

Date: January 29, 2026
Host: Kylie Griswold (Managing Editor, The Federalist)
Guest: Frank DeVito (Senior Counsel and Director of Content, Napa Institute; author of JD Vance and the Future of the Republican Party)

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode explores the political philosophy, cultural influences, and likely future impact of J.D. Vance as Donald Trump’s chosen vice president and presumed frontrunner for the Republican Party in 2028. Drawing from Frank DeVito’s new book, the discussion probes Vance’s faith, his vision for conservatism post-Trump, his critique of libertarianism and fusionism, and unique “America First” policy inclinations—especially as they pertain to issues such as abortion and the meaning of community.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Write a Book on J.D. Vance? (02:49)

• Importance of Vance: Frank anticipated Vance's centrality as Trump’s VP pick and possible 2028 GOP nominee.
  • Quote (DeVito, 02:49):
    “He could have picked somebody who checked a demographic box… instead he picks this young white Christian guy from a safe red state in Ohio... you're picking a potential successor... it’s Vance’s race to lose for 2028.”
• Vance as ‘one of our people’: Unlike other politicians, Vance’s intellectual and faith journeys resonated with conservative intellectuals.
  • “He’s writing op-eds on really interesting matters of politics and policy... really high level, engaging with matters of political philosophy.” (A, 04:30)
• The Party’s Moment of Transformation:
  • Trump’s tenure has realigned the party’s ideology and base. The post-Trump era is wide open, making Vance’s approach particularly noteworthy.

2. The “Brain Drain” & Defense of Place (10:10)

• Vance’s Rejection of “Just Move” Libertarianism:
  • Critique of Ben Shapiro’s “just move” ethos.
  • The importance of generational ties, community rootedness, and the dangers of uprooting talent from small towns for elites.
  • Quote (DeVito, 10:10):
    “We are from a place... It’s not good for individuals to uproot and be somewhere where they’re not, divorced from not just their extended family and community... but the multi-generational effect.”
• Vance as Example:
  • After Yale and Silicon Valley, he deliberately returned to Ohio, seeking to rebuild what had been lost in Middle America.

3. The Poisoned Garden Analogy & “Muscular Conservatism” (15:28)

• Vance’s Analogy:
  • America’s institutions have been so distorted (“poisoned”) by liberal, technocratic interventions that “hands-off” libertarian approaches are insufficient.
  • Quote (DeVito, 19:13):
    “It’s not enough in this era to say, okay, gardener, just stop the intervention, stop the big government. If we have this world where Facebook and Google are arguably more powerful than most nation states... telling the government don’t act isn’t going to fix what ails us.”
• Critique of Fusionism:
  • Modern conservatism’s “fusion” with libertarianism has left it unable to respond to today’s crises.
  • “Freedom for its own sake is not conservative. It is not necessary... to always choose freedom over government action.” (DeVito, 22:12)

4. The Limits of Libertarianism and the Real Meaning of Freedom (22:12)

• Freedom as a Tool, Not an End:
  • True freedom is valuable for the good things it allows—not as an end.
• “Leaving individuals and communities subject to the choices of drug companies and transnational corporations is a political choice.” (DeVito, 22:12)

5. Vance’s Trump Pivot: Substance or Opportunism? (24:04)

• Genuine Evolution:
  • Vance moved from Never Trump to Pro-Trump not out of opportunism, but because of a realization about the corruption of American institutions.
  • Quote (DeVito, 25:06):
    “What I changed on is my view of American institutions and how bad they are... Maybe Trump was right.”
• Context:
  • Many past “Never Trump” figures have transitioned.
  • Vance’s honest reckoning is contrasted favorably with more self-serving flips elsewhere in the party.

6. How Shocks Like COVID & 2020 Protests Changed Conservative Thinking (29:06)

• Societal Events as Eye-Openers:
  • School closures, politicized healthcare, and 2020’s BLM riots led many conservatives to see “how broken some of these institutions are.” (B, 29:06)
• Quote:
  “Covid opened a lot of minds to how deeply infected the schools were and the health system, certainly the other one, too... the Floyd riots... and the trans movement... really woke a lot of people up.” (DeVito, 30:02)

7. Abortion: Realism vs. Idealism in Vance’s and Trump’s Approaches (32:03)

• Vance and Trump as Realists:
  • Both recognize the lack of cultural appetite for strict abortion bans.
  • Importance of not overreaching and risking backlash (e.g., “dog that caught the car” post-Roe moment).
  • “If the abolitionists of abortion could get what they want and ban it tomorrow, it’s not going to hold in this culture.” (DeVito, 32:03)
  • Even in red states, abortion restrictions are deeply unpopular.
• Vance Is More Credibly Pro-life:
  • Trump was always transactional on life issues; Vance’s Catholic convictions are more deeply held—even if his policies are similarly constrained by reality.
  • “Vance cares very personally about this issue... I think we can count on Vance to do what he thinks is politically possible on this issue.” (DeVito, 44:43)
• Critique of Vance on Mifepristone:
  • DeVito’s only substantive criticism of Vance: one cannot prudently defend access to abortion pills or IVF. Prudence can justify inaction but not affirmative support for intrinsic evils.

8. Law Shapes Consciousness (47:05)

• Using Law and Rhetoric:
  • Even incremental action and strong rhetorical leadership can shape public conscience on abortion and the value of life.
  • “The law does condition our consciences... it’s important to make whatever moves we can in that direction.” (B, 48:26)

9. Catholic Social Teaching, Ordo Amoris, and Priorities (49:27)

• Vance’s Application of Faith in Governance:
  • The ‘order of loves’ means prioritizing real responsibility toward one’s family and community over abstract, universal causes (e.g., immigration policy).
  • “I can’t love everybody the way that I love my wife. Right.” (DeVito, 49:27)
• Critique of Abstracted Activism:
  • Modern leftism’s “abstract charity” can be an excuse to avoid difficult, tangible duties.
  • “It’s much easier for people to look for issues out there that they can vote on and be crusaders for because it doesn’t involve actual sacrificial love.” (DeVito, 51:44)
• Vance’s Humility:
  • Acknowledges he’s a ‘baby Catholic’ seeking accountability and genuinely trying to integrate faith with public duty.

10. Peter Thiel’s Influence—Overstated? (56:35)

• Influence Clarified:
  • Thiel was the first intellectually credible Christian Vance encountered, but Vance’s chosen path is distinct, specifically Catholic.
  • Financial support from Thiel doesn’t translate into policy indebtedness.
  • “What do I owe them [major donors] in terms of implementing their preferred policies or vision for the country? Nothing. I owe them nothing.” (Paraphrasing DeVito, 57:10-58:00)

11. The Future of the Vance GOP / New Right (60:53)

• Threats to Vance’s Succession:
  • The only plausible alternative is Marco Rubio, but unless Vance seriously errs, the base is his to lose.
  • Attempts by GOP establishment to revert to neoconservatism will be unsuccessful; Nikki Haley, Ted Cruz, and others are not polling competitively.
  • “Nikki Haley would get, like, a half a percent of the primary vote... These are not viable.” (DeVito, 62:43)
• Vance’s Strength is the Rust Belt:
  • His background resonates with key swing states—he cannot be credibly painted as an out-of-touch extremist.
  • “He knows their struggles. So you can try to make him out as this out-of-touch, like elite, far right Republican. He is not that.” (DeVito, 65:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Vance as Trump’s Successor (02:49):
  “He’s the heir apparent, if you want to use that term... I just figured I would do it first. I had the idea right after the 2024 election and said, well, let's see if I can be first to the party here and write something influential on the topic.” –Frank DeVito

• On Community & Place (10:10):
  “It’s not good for individuals to uproot and be somewhere where they’re not... This builds a trust that’s really important… People have the intention of, I’m going to be rooted here. This is where I’m going to raise my kids.” –Frank DeVito

• On the Poisoned Garden (19:13):
  “There is so much [institutional] influence by these organizations… telling the government don’t act isn’t going to fix what ails us.”

• On Freedom & Conservatism (22:12):
  “Leaving individuals and communities subject to the choices of drug companies and transnational corporations is a political choice. Freedom for its own sake is not conservative.”

• On Vance’s “Never Trump” Shift (25:06):
  “What I changed on is my view of the American institutions and how bad they are... Maybe Trump was right.”

• On the Post-Roe Landscape (32:03):
  “If the abolitionists of abortion could get what they want and ban it tomorrow, it’s not going to hold in this culture.”

• On Vance & Peter Thiel (57:10):
  “What do I owe them [donors]? Nothing. I owe them nothing.”

• On Vance’s Electability (65:30):
  “He knows their struggles. So you can try to make him out as this out-of-touch, like elite, far right Republican. He is not that. I think he will do very well among the base in the states that matter especially.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:49] – Why write about J.D. Vance? The future of the GOP.
• [10:10] – Brain drain, place, and critique of “just move” libertarianism.
• [15:28] – The “poisoned garden” analogy and limits of libertarian conservatism.
• [24:04] – Vance’s evolution from Never Trump to Pro-Trump.
• [29:06] – How COVID, riots, and other events changed the American right.
• [32:03] – Vance, Trump, and realism on abortion; post-Roe dynamic.
• [44:43] – Is Vance more reliably pro-life than Trump?
• [49:27] – Catholic social doctrine, immigration, and “ordo amoris.”
• [56:35] – The real influence of Peter Thiel on Vance.
• [60:53] – Threats and prospects for a Vance-led GOP after Trump.

Conclusion

Frank DeVito and host Kylie Griswold deliver a substantive, philosophical deep dive into what the Republican Party may soon become under J.D. Vance. They unpack Vance’s intellectual seriousness, the renewal of faith in public life, a vigorous defense of community, and hard-nosed realism about America’s post-liberal malaise. Though Vance faces criticisms and is not without flaws—especially on how to balance prudence and principle—the episode presents him as the likely inheritor of Trump’s movement and a more thoroughgoing, thoughtful “America First” leader. The base’s support, strategic humility, and rootedness in Rust Belt realities are painted as his secret weapons for the GOP’s future.