The Kylee Cast feat. Katy Faust, Ep. 24: "Why IVF, Gay Marriage, And Divorce All Violate Kids' Rights"

Podcast: Federalist Radio Hour / The Kylie Cast
Host: Kylie Griswold
Guest: Katy Faust, founder of Them Before Us
Date: January 15, 2026

Episode Overview

In this compelling and provocative episode, host Kylie Griswold interviews children's rights advocate and Them Before Us founder Katy Faust. Together, they tackle the controversial and emotionally charged nexus where reproductive technology, modern family structures, and law intersect with the fundamental rights of children. Topics include IVF, surrogacy, gay marriage, adoption, and divorce, all explored from the perspective of prioritizing children's rights above the desires of adults. Faust argues that current practices and legal norms often require children to bear the costs of adult choices, ultimately inflicting deep and lasting wounds.

Tone: Unapologetic, urgent, advocacy-driven, with an emphasis on challenging mainstream narratives and calling for courage among listeners.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Katy Faust’s Background & Mission

• Raised in Portland, Oregon, Faust is the child of divorced parents; her mother later partnered with a woman, giving Faust a unique perspective on non-traditional families. (03:22)
• After converting to Christianity as a teen, Faust's worldview shifted, especially as she engaged in ministry and adopted a child herself.
• Inspired by the rhetoric around gay marriage, particularly about children "not caring" about having same-sex parents, Faust became convinced that the loss of a mother or father is deeply wounding for children.
• Founded "Them Before Us," the only organization exclusively focused on defending children's rights to their own mother and father. (07:29)

"When a child has two moms, that means they have lost their dad. And when a child has two dads, that means they have lost their mom." – Katy Faust [04:34]

Child Rights vs. Adult Desires: The Foundational Principle

• The conversation centers around whether society prioritizes children's rights or adult desires, with Faust asserting that nearly all adults, regardless of personal circumstances, are tempted to put their own interests first. (08:42)
• Emphasized the inability of children to advocate for themselves: "It is our job to protect the rights of the most vulnerable for the voiceless. We speak up on their behalf." – Katy Faust [09:48]

In-Depth: IVF and Fertility Technology

Why Faust Argues IVF is Anti-Child

• IVF often results in the destruction of embryos: only about 3% of lab-created embryos are born alive, meaning the process is, in her view, more destructive than abortion. (11:04)
• Additional issues:
  • Children created via donor gametes often lose connection to one or both biological parents, leading to identity issues and feelings of commodification.
  • The process tends to prioritize adult preferences (e.g., genetic selection, sex selection).

"IVF destroys more little lives every year than the world of the baby takers of abortion." – Katy Faust [11:24]

Ethical Quandaries for Well-Intentioned Couples

• It's rare and highly cost prohibitive to do IVF in a way that aligns with pro-life ideals (e.g., not discarding embryos, no genetic selection). (19:53)
• Economic constraints and industry incentives make “truly ethical” IVF options nearly unattainable except for the mega-wealthy.

"You can do it the quote unquote pro life way, but not unless you're a millionaire." – Katy Faust [21:37]

Advice to Those with Frozen Embryos

• Faust's blunt advice: “Go get your babies.” Parents should reorient their lives and do "hard things" to raise every created child, even if burdensome. [22:10]
• Acknowledges the moral tragedy for those unable to give birth to all created embryos, calling it an ongoing human rights crisis. "We have somewhere between 1 million and 10 million children frozen in this country." [24:48]

Restorative Reproductive Medicine

• Counsels listeners to seek underlying causes of infertility and to avoid quick referrals to IVF clinics, recommending "restorative reproductive medicine" instead. (25:51)

Adoption vs. Surrogacy: The Money & Vetting Distinction

• Adoption is tightly regulated to prevent trafficking; adoptive parents cannot legally pay birth parents for children. Money covers costs, but not the "buying" of children. (15:05)
• By contrast, surrogacy (and most IVF arrangements involving egg/sperm donors) is built on direct payments for parental rights—a model Faust calls "baby buying." [15:05]
• Extensive vetting exists for adoptive parents, including background checks, home visits, references, and post-placement follow-ups. By comparison, surrogacy has little to none, making it ripe for abuses and child trafficking (28:42).

"The vetting for adoption is extensive. The vetting for surrogacy is nonexistent." – Katy Faust [28:42]

Surrogacy: Fragmenting Motherhood

• Surrogacy splits “mother” into three components: genetic, gestational, and social mother. Children, says Faust, need all three unified; every separation creates loss. (37:07)
• Even “altruistic” family-member surrogacies are problematic from a child’s rights perspective.
• Uses stories of abuse, neglect, and scandals to highlight dangers arising from lack of surrogacy regulation. (28:42 - 32:22)

Policy Reform: What Should Change?

• Faust advocates at least:
  • Mandated record-keeping on IVF outcomes (33:16)
  • Legal recognition of embryos as children deserving right to life from conception (inspired by Alabama 2024 court case)
  • Removing financial incentives from sperm/egg “donation” and surrogacy
  • Banning commercial surrogacy outright, or at least foreign surrogacy
• Warns that most clinics will be unviable if forced to respect embryo rights (33:16 - 36:45)

Gay Marriage and Parentage Laws

• Argues that legalizing gay marriage has led directly to removing “mother” and “father” from parenthood statutes and redefining parentage based on contracts—not nature (40:12).
• Recounts how states have redefined infertility, created Uniform Parentage Acts, and established contractual rights for unrelated adults to acquire children via surrogacy or IVF.

"They made mothers and fathers optional in parenthood law." – Katy Faust [40:12]

• Previewed the “Greater Than Campaign”: a new coalition reframing the debate not as “adults’ rights” but as “which arrangements serve children best—their own mother and father, or adults assigned by contract?” (44:25)

Divorce & Changing Definitions of Marriage

• No-fault divorce cited as the first “redefinition” of marriage, removing permanence and harming children demonstrably—especially girls and boys, per recent studies. (46:16)
• Divorce’s destabilizing impact endures into adulthood and affects intergenerational family support structures.

"[Gray divorce]... now that middle generation supports above and supports below. So now they are the load bearing wall for all the generations." – Katy Faust [50:19]

Children in Foster & Adoption Care: The "Wouldn't Two Dads Be Better Than Foster Care?" Argument

• Urges listeners to avoid pitting exception against exception: the statistical norm is that biological parents are most invested and protective.
• Emphasizes that unrelated adults statistically increase a child's risk of abuse/neglect, even if exceptional, loving homes exist.
• Instead of expanding non-traditional placements, encourages Christian and married couples to “put them before us” by adopting hard-to-place children. (53:15)

"You have to recognize what you're doing. You're pitting exception against exception." – Katy Faust [53:15]

Reforming Adoption Policy

• Adoption should never be easy or centered on adult desires; designed solely to serve the best interests of children who've lost parents.
• Recounts an anecdote from her adoption agency experience: “We are not here to give them a child. We are here to find parents for every child that does not have them.” [58:08]

Courage, Complicity, and the Mandate for Christians

• Faust admits she too delayed speaking out for fear of social consequences, but urges courage despite real costs.
• Identifies adult self-interest as the greatest societal threat to children.
• Calls on Christians to continue the historical legacy of child defense, with strong language challenging religious complicity.

"You are confronting what I think is the most powerful force on the planet, and that's adult self interest." – Katy Faust [60:16]

"Your mandate has not changed. Your mandate is not to hinder any of these little ones from coming to Christ." – Katy Faust [63:34]

Notable Quotes & Moments (W/ Timestamps)

• [04:34] Katy Faust: "When a child has two moms, that means they have lost their dad. And when a child has two dads, that means they have lost their mom."
• [08:42] Katy Faust: "In this world of children's rights, nobody gets a pass. Single, married, gay, straight, fertile and infertile, all sacrifice because the only alternative is kids sacrificing for you."
• [11:24] Katy Faust: "IVF destroys more little lives every year than the world of the baby takers of abortion."
• [15:05] Katie Faust: "If any of the money that my husband and I spent to bring home our fourth child ... went directly to his birth mother ... that would be trafficking. ... There should be no payment to genetic parents or birth parents for relinquishing parental rights. ... Big Fertility also involves a lot of money, but it's built upon direct payments from intended parents to genetic parents and birth parents ... This is baby buying."
• [21:37] Katy Faust (on “ethical” IVF): "You can do it the quote unquote pro life way, but not unless you're a millionaire."
• [28:42] Katy Faust: "The vetting for adoption is extensive. The vetting for surrogacy is nonexistent."
• [37:07] Katy Faust: "Surrogacy splices what should be one person—mother—into three purchasable and optional women. ... The problem is none of these women are optional."
• [44:25] Katy Faust (on strategy): "This is not going to be pitting religious adults against gay adults. This is going to be forcing the court to answer a different question, which is, do children benefit from their own mother and father more than an adult who is assigned to them by the state via contract?"
• [46:16] Katy Faust: "No-fault Divorce was the original redefinition of marriage because it removed permanence."
• [58:08] Katy Faust (on adoption): "We are not here to give them a child. We are here to find parents for every child that does not have them. And that means some adults will not get a baby. But if we do our job, every child that has lost their mother or father is going to be placed in a loving home."

Key Timestamps for Segment Navigation

• 00:53 – 07:29 | Katy Faust's background, conversion, and motivation
• 07:29 – 09:39 | The "children vs. adults" framework
• 10:03 – 21:41 | IVF: moral issues, child rights, and systemic problems
• 21:41 – 25:22 | Frozen embryos, advice for parents, scale of issue
• 25:51 – 28:19 | Restorative reproductive medicine vs. IVF
• 28:42 – 32:22 | Adoption vs. surrogacy: vetting and abuse risks
• 33:16 – 37:07 | Legal reforms: reporting, banning surrogacy, etc.
• 37:07 – 39:41 | Surrogacy, fragmented motherhood, and "altruistic" scenarios
• 39:41 – 44:25 | Gay marriage, legal changes, and the "Greater Than Campaign"
• 46:16 – 52:02 | Divorce, marriage's meaning, and damage to children
• 53:15 – 57:37 | Adoption, foster care, and the "two dads vs. foster system" debate
• 58:08 – 59:21 | Policy, philosophical, and practical adoption reform
• 60:16 – 63:55 | Courage, social cost, and the legacy of Christian child defense

Conclusion & Call to Action

Katy Faust challenges listeners—especially Christians—to speak out for children, even at personal cost, and offers avenues for engagement (ThemBeforeUs.com, Greater Than Campaign). The episode closes with a reaffirmation of the need for a cultural shift prioritizing the rights and well-being of children above adult desires, regardless of societal or peer pressure.

“In a just society, we, the strong do hard things on behalf of the weak.” – Katy Faust [61:44]

Resources & Further Engagement

• Them Before Us: thembeforeus.com
• Greater Than Campaign: greaterthancampaign.com
• Books:
  • Them Before Us: Why We Need a Global Children’s Rights Movement by Katy Faust & Stacy Manning
  • Raising Conservative Kids in a Woke City by Katy Faust & Stacy Manning
  • Pro Child Politics (with 19 guest experts)
• Katy Faust Social: X/Twitter @advo_Katy

"The truth hurts, but it won’t kill you." – Kylie Griswold [66:10]