The Pro-Life Roadmap To Midterms Victory

Summary

Federalist Radio Hour

Episode: The Pro-Life Roadmap To Midterms Victory
Host: Matt Kittle
Guest: Marjorie Dannenfelser, President of Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America
Date: March 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour, host Matt Kittle sits down with Marjorie Dannenfelser to discuss the state of the pro-life movement headed into the critical 2026 midterm elections. Focusing on both strategy and policy, they examine the challenges facing the movement post-Dobbs, the impact of abortion drugs, ground game tactics, political motivations, and what’s at stake for pro-life voters and the nation.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Pro-Life Electoral Strategy & Mobilization

Timestamps: [02:16], [32:56]

• Grassroots Mobilization: Marjorie credits success to "incredible grassroots canvassers and true believers on the ground" who connect directly with persuadable voters—weathering everything from "Wisconsin cold, [to the] Arizona heat" ([02:48]).
• Sustained Ground Game: The movement has honed its voter outreach strategy since 2014, leveraging both personal interactions and multiple communication channels (mail, digital, text).
• 2026 Investment: Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America plans to spend around $80 million in Senate, gubernatorial, and House battlegrounds ([04:20]).
• Personal Connection: Door-to-door canvassers engage in "the most deeply human conversation you could have," addressing both moral questions and personal experiences with abortion ([32:56]).

“We’ve been able to really kind of hone our skills and, and really perfect something that was really important... to leverage all of that wisdom, all of that passion into elections.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([03:28])

2. Motivating Pro-Life Voters After Dobbs

Timestamps: [05:24], [09:36]

• Trump & Post-Presidential Midterms: Kittle and Dannenfelser discuss challenges in motivating "low propensity" pro-life voters with Trump off the ballot ([04:39]).
• Regulatory Setbacks: The Biden administration's relaxation of abortion drug rules has lessened enthusiasm, as these drugs now undermine state-level pro-life laws ([05:24]).
• Political and Human Toll: The "jubilation" of Dobbs was quickly followed by "exhaustion" and a "robbing of that success" through proliferation of abortion drugs, which Dannenfelser describes as "a horror in her own home" for women ([09:36]).

“We created a great possibility, a great opportunity. But now that incredible success is being directly threatened by the flow of abortion drugs with absolutely no oversight.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([05:24])

3. Abortion Pills and Federal vs State Power

Timestamps: [12:51], [17:26]

• Legislative Action: Dannenfelser highlights recent legislative pushes, such as collaborating with Senator Josh Hawley on a bill aiming to restrict or revoke FDA approval of abortion drugs and restore in-person dispensing ([12:51]).
• State Sovereignty Undermined: The hosts argue that blue-state governors (e.g., Gavin Newsom) are effectively overriding the pro-life laws of other states by facilitating cross-border access to abortion drugs ([17:26]).
• Constitutional Implications: Dannenfelser calls this a "direct violation of the Constitution," framing it as a matter of states' rights and federalism ([18:22]).

“It means that Gavin Newsom is in charge of the laws of Alabama and South Carolina and Georgia and every other state that has a pro life law.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([18:22])

4. National Sentiment and Party Positions

Timestamps: [23:56], [28:32], [30:14]

• Democratic Party Stance: The discussion delves into the "arrogant" and unyielding pro-choice position of Democratic leaders, referencing Newsom and others ([23:56]).
• Public Opinion: Polls are cited showing that while around 60% of U.S. adults support legal abortion in all or most cases, about 76% want at least some restrictions ([30:14]).
• Limits and Incremental Change: The importance of starting with consensus restrictions, such as late-term bans or opposing taxpayer-funded abortion, is emphasized as the way most Americans approach the issue ([30:14]).

“As much as many of us want to have it all, we have to start somewhere because not everybody agrees with us... you try to gain, you go where you make a law, where consensus is.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([30:30])

5. The Pro-Life “Roadmap” and Looking Ahead to 2028

Timestamps: [41:43], [45:10]

• Eyes on Iowa and South Carolina: Early primary states are positioned as crucial for both 2026 and 2028 in shaping the pro-life agenda and presidency ([41:43]).
• Candidate Accountability: There is concern that pro-life voters might punish Republicans seen as insufficiently supportive, which could affect down-ballot races ([42:41]).
• Risks of Losing Congress: Dannenfelser stresses the stakes: losing the House or Senate could result in sweeping national abortion rights legislation that would pre-empt state protections ([45:10]).

“The consequences are not medium for a midterm. They're still very strong... they will absolutely press if they've got the House, Senate and presidency immediately, they will pass a law that will strike down every pro life protection in every state across the country.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([47:10])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Motivation after Dobbs:

"There is an exhale that I think many people experienced. And they were kind of looking for that moment where they could finally just not have to pay attention so much anymore... Within two years, it robbed the victory."
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([09:36])

On Federal Drug Regulation:

“The combination of compelling motivate, beautiful words and zero action is callousness towards the issue, which is very hard to see.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([14:48])

On Democratic Leadership:

“He’s like the arrogant student government president that doesn’t hear and never look you in your face... He just sees a crowd, not any individuals in the crowd.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser on Gavin Newsom ([23:56])

On the Ground Game:

“Everybody who’s going to door has a tablet... you nag like a mama: Did you vote? Did you vote? Until you know that they voted.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([37:05])

On the Importance of Iowa and South Carolina:

“We are and will be in Iowa and South Carolina for quite some time.”
— Marjorie Dannenfelser ([41:43])

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:16] — Introduction to grassroots mobilization efforts and successes since 2014.
• [09:36] — Impact of abortion pills post-Dobbs and the resulting "exhale" among activists.
• [12:51] — Dannenfelser's statements from a recent press conference with Senator Josh Hawley.
• [17:26]-[18:22] — Federal vs. state power: How abortion pills cross state lines and constitutional arguments.
• [23:56] — Sentiment about current national and Democratic leadership on abortion rights.
• [30:14] — Discussion of polling, consensus, and incremental policy goals for the movement.
• [32:56], [37:05] — Details of the pro-life ground game, including technology and personal conversations.
• [41:43]-[45:10] — Midterm stakes, 2028 presidential strategies, implications of losing Congress.

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Tone and Style

The conversation is urgent, personal, and deeply engaged with both political strategy and moral conviction. Both speakers blend policy analysis with storytelling, faith, and lived experience—as well as the occasional light-hearted aside and sports metaphor to keep the tone accessible.

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Summary Takeaways

• The pro-life movement has professionalized its voter outreach and is investing heavily in contested races for 2026, adapting to changing technology and voter habits.
• Motivation of the base is challenged by the current administration’s permissive stance on abortion drugs and lack of policy movement at the federal level.
• The loss of the House or Senate could result in sweeping national policies that would override current state-level pro-life gains.
• There’s a concerted effort to educate, mobilize, and have real conversations with voters, leveraging both digital and analog strategies.
• Iowa and South Carolina will continue to be central to shaping the 2028 presidential field as well as the trajectory of the nation’s abortion policy.

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For listeners and activists alike, this episode offers a candid window into the evolving pro-life playbook as the 2026 midterms approach—and positions the movement’s fight as not only political but also deeply personal and cultural.

Transcript

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[Matt Kittle]

Hey, it's Cole Swindell. After I give everything I've got to

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

land a perfect vocal, I usually take

[Matt Kittle]

five before jumping into the next track.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

And I've learned exactly how to recharge in that time. Some folks grab coffee, I hit a quick good luck spin.

[Matt Kittle]

Next thing you know, the break is just as fun as laying down the track. A better break makes for a better take.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

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[Matt Kittle]

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[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

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[Matt Kittle]

We are back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the Federalist and your experience Sherpa on today's quest for knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio the federalist.com follow us on x@fdrlst. Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast and of course, to the premium version of our website as well. Our guest today is Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America. We talk about the fight for life in another critical election year. Marjorie, thank you so much for joining us on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Matt, thank you so much for having me. You're my favorite Sherpa.

[Matt Kittle]

Oh, thank you. You know what? I've had some problems in the Sherpa union lately, and that makes me feel very good.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Well, I'm a good vote getter, so I'm going to work on that.

[Matt Kittle]

You sure are. And in fact, let's start out there about how good of a vote getter you are, because you definitely were in 2024. And let's face it, Marjorie, you folks have been doing a great job on that. Not just, you know, representing the values of the pro life movement, but also moving politicians and moving voters. As I understand it, you're going to spend quite a bit of money doing just that in in this midterm election.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Yep. Well, that's true. And when I Say I'm a great vote getter. What I really mean is not me at all. It's all of these incredible grassroots canvassers and true believers on the ground who go door to door, day in, day out, Wisconsin, cold, Arizona heat. No matter what it is, they're going to the right people, meaning the people that either haven't voted, who normally vote, who are persuadable, they're just great, incredible team. And we, we've been doing this plus a whole lot of other voter interactions through all sorts of other means since 2014. So, so for over a decade, we've been able to really kind of hone our skills and, and really perfect something that was really important. And if you would just allow me to kind of express how important this gap was in the pro life movement for so many years, for decades, as we fought all the wonderful education arms, the pieces of the movement that brought me in were all robust and attractive. But there needed to be something that would leverage all of that wisdom, all of that passion into elections. And so we've been very blessed to be part of that and very much part of leading the voter aspect and really closing the gap in battlegrounds for pro life candidates all over the country. For a while now we're headed into a midterm really quickly. After that, it will feel it presidential. In this cycle. We'll spend about $80 million in Senate and gubernatorial battlegrounds and House battlegrounds across the country.

[Matt Kittle]

That is a lot of resources. It's not just the money, of course. It's putting people on the ground and that's, that's a big battle as well. Let me ask you this though. A lot of folks in the, the pro life movement have voted for Donald Trump for the better part of the last 10 years. He is, his name is not on the ballot. His policies, his agenda certainly is on the ballot. But how do you motivate, particularly the low propensity vot the voters that don't come out very often, if at all, to come out during a midterm. And we all know the numbers on what happens to the party in power during midterm elections.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

I think we all know that with this president, there are incredible strengths, historic changes that have occurred, and then also because no one's simple, certainly Donald Trump, there's also some difficulty. So I'll explain what I mean by that. Yes, as you say, without the president at the top of the ticket in a midterm, and this one in particular is very difficult for folks who are primarily, were primarily motivated by him and his personality. And so you, when there is a dearth of intensity, then you've got to work all the harder to make sure that voters are seeing what's at stake, that the contrast will still be there even when the candidates themselves are different. And so, and that is certainly the case this time. And the, the other aspect of the difficulty that I referred to, however, is that adding to that problem of intensity that is endemic to a non presidential year is, is the, is the inaction on abortion drugs in the country and that there's only one. And I mean it in a very specific way, and I mean it on the part of the administration that for the core and important and indispensable piece that the pro life movement is in winning tough races, it's a demotivator. It's the lack of intensity when there's a lack of movement on that. Now, I say that in the context obviously of us being in a historic moment because of the actions of this president when he was elected in 2016 for the first time, we would not be talking about strong pro life states passing laws, 20 of them that were, that are now being undermined by these drugs. So we created a great possibility, a great opportunity. But now that incredible success is being directly threatened by the flow of abortion drugs with absolutely no oversight, almost completely unregulated in pro life states and everywhere, thereby really robbing the sovereignty of those states to pass their own laws to the extent that there is a spike in the abortion rate in this country since the Dobbs decision, not a decline. So back to your point. When you see that happening and this is something that the pro life and you know, it's not just the pro life movement, it's voters who care. They're slowly becoming aware of this. And as they become aware of it, it's, it's always a problem for the unborn child when hundreds of thousands of more are dying. It's always a problem for the women who are being coerced and pimped and trafficked and tricked into taking these pills that are unregulated, which anybody can buy. But there's also a political consequence at the polls and it really is not a small one.

[Matt Kittle]

It is a shame. It's an absolute shame. And it has absolutely undercut Dobs. I mean, I, I remember talking to you before the 2024 election and we talked about, you were in, you were in Iowa at that time, you know, and obviously the, the, the first in the nation caucus state, lots of candidates, Republican candidates, kicking the tires, right Time Uh, at least voters were kicking the tires on them. And we talked about that moment when the Dobbs decision came down and the sense of just rejoicing that you experienced along with your staff. And it was just the culmination of such a long fight. Do. How do you feel about what these abortion drugs and the proliferation of them has done to that moment, has done to Dobbs in particular? And. And as you mentioned, what is that done to voters and their willingness to head to the polls in 26?

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Yeah, I think like many human rights movements that take a very long time to culminate in a moment like that, there is a. An exhaustion working so hard, and then there's also at that jubilation, there's an exhale that I think many people experienced. And they were kind of looking for that moment where they could finally just not have to pay attention so much anymore. And that is what we experience. And with that exhale and with that lack of attention, there was a sneaking in under Biden, under a Covid. Under the COVID policy that Biden put out a complete trashing of the rules around the abortion drug. And it. Within two years. Within two years, it. Or less than two years, it robbed the victory. And what is the victory? Yeah, there's jubilation. It's children. It is a child. It's also a mother that didn't expect what she would experience with the abortion drug, which is a horror in her own home with her bathroom being her abortion center, which she will live in and often has seen and then flushed down the child, down the toilet, because what else. What are you going to do, you know? And so anyway. But the robbing of that success has real human consequences. It takes a human toll. The political toll now is the kind of reinvigorating of the movement once again to see, hey, you got to preserve. Not only preserve this victory, which would entail rules around the regulation. Stop going through the mail. That. That is a big, big deal. Require a doctor visit. So you know what gestation at what gestational age your child is. Know if you have an ectopic pregnancy, know all sorts of the reason. That's the reason you go to a doctor when you're pregnant. Even if you're going to abort the child, you should at least know any health contraindications. So none of that is happening. Restore that now. We just had a press conference with Josh Hawley yesterday, two days ago, I guess. And that call in his legislation is to take away the approval of the abortion drug completely. That the FDA laid upon us. But at a minimum, at a minimum, restoring in person dispensing would save hundreds of thousands of lives and just as many women who experience the horrors of this abortion drug.

[Matt Kittle]

Yeah, I want to play a little bit of that audio from that press conference. Senator Hawley had spoken, introduced you and you had some very interesting things to say about the legislation and where we stand in the pro life movement in this battle. Let's hear a little bit of that audio here.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

It is an outrage that these women standing here and all across the country and men who love women have been co opted into what is termed a feminist movement that has absolutely abandoned women. Instead, they are absolutely attached to the institution of abortion over the lives of women. And it is time to be heard. It is time for these women's stories, their real lives to be heard and made manifest in legislation that would stop the madness. We searched and worked for 50 years to have the handcuffs taken off of the people so that we could pass laws to save lives. 20 states acted courageously to fight for justice and love for children and justice and love for. For their mothers. And then what happened? The. The pills, unattached to any care, flooded into all those states and everywhere. So Gavin Newsom is determining policy in pro life states. I think we all know what that means. No justice for women. No justice for babies.

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[Matt Kittle]

This is a powerful bill, but given the state of things and given the, I don't know how else to describe it, the intransigence at the fda, where do you think all of this is going?

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Well, it is intransigent. Intransigence at the fda. It is as well under RFK Secretary Kennedy, but it ultimately is in the White House and at the White House it is ultimately the president who has decided the abortion drug. The abortion issue is a loser. A lot of other human rights movements have heard that from their leaders. This one is particularly painful, especially because the words at the March for Life say from Vice President Vance and the words from the President are beautiful words. They're compelling words. They don't communicate this is anything other than a human rights movement. So the combination of compelling motivate, beautiful words and zero action is callousness towards the issue, which is very hard to see. Now I, I always say that and I, I don't say this to, to for any other reason than to acknowledge reality, and that is that we wouldn't be here with Roe overturned if it weren't for this president. But it's particularly feels particularly cruel that once the door is open, that because of the allowance of these abortion drugs to go into pro life states, that the door is slammed shut once again and slammed shut in a way that produces a back alley style, worse than a back alley abortion that abortion activists have always threatened. This one is truly hard. So what we make of it, what I think we ought to be thinking about is what do we want in our future candidates? First of all, how do we motivate demotivated pro lifers? Everyone has more than one issue we care about, but this is a fundamental one and it's a big demotivator to hear that it really matters. But I'm going to do nothing. And so how do we motivate? Well, I'll tell you how. And it is that who we are helping are a great group of heroes. The senators that we're helping, the governors that we're helping in battlegrounds, the House battlegrounds where we're fighting. We're fighting for people who are very strong advocates. And while there's difficulty in the administration right now and at the White House, we have incredible champions in the House and the Senate. And so that makes it not easy because it's about how do you get the word to every voter, which is what we're doing. It means there's a contrast. And a contrast is a gift that you must have in politics in order to motivate anybody to vote.

[Matt Kittle]

Well, I'm not naive. I understand the laws surrounding interstate commerce. In this case, interstate commerce means murder. There's no other way around that. I understand those realities and the push and pull of all of that. But what happened to states rights? On, you know, after Dobbs, you had a number of states that put in significant restrictions on abortion and they had, according to the decision, every right in the world to do that. When you have abortion drugs coming in by the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands into these, these states, what does that do to the, you know, the constitutional separation of, of powers between the federal and the state government?

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

It means that Gavin Newsom is in charge of the laws of Alabama and South Carolina and Georgia and every other state that has a pro life law. It means that his pushing of those pills into those pro life states, his insistence against the people and the, and the duly elected people of those of those states, his insistence that he knows better than the voters of each of those states is a direct violation of the Constitution. It is you to have it outlawed in your state and then sent in by other states. Clearly it is a question of how this gets fixed, not whether. Like I said, in the Senate and the House there are incredible majority of the senators and the, and 175 members of the House have, have petitioned, begged, cajoled, screamed out the FDA for help in this area. The country's attorneys general from all of these, almost all of these states have done the same. Louisiana has sued the FDA to, for its initial approval of the drug because of the harms to women in those states and also of course, because their laws are being undermined. So on every level, a constitutional level, a policy level, a human level, let's just say arrogance level. Gavin Newsom had a direct message to the, to the Attorney General of Louisiana when she's suing the state of California. And it was not written in letters. He really said gfu. What? Gfy? Yeah, gfy, which I'm not going to say out loud, which he tweeted at the state of Louisiana through the, through the person of Liz Mural, their incredible Attorney General. Like, this is what I think. So that kind of arrogance. That kind of arrogance. And, and what? It must not, not, must not be put up with. It just, it, it just is an insane moment. The only reason that a lot of people don't know about it is because the administration will not talk about it, but the others will.

[Matt Kittle]

Well, we got to talk about it. I mean, and I, I know that SBA is definitely talking about it and we have this forum to talk about it. Understandably, you can, you can see, you can feel the frustration out there. It is absolutely palpable in, in the movement and. Well, first and foremost, let's, let's be clear on the record. Gavin Newsom is an absolute creep for many reasons, but he seems to be the front runner for Democrats in 2028 in the presidential campaign. But listen, there are a lot of evils in the world today. It is breathtaking and demoralizing how many evils there are in the world today. But I can't think of anything more evil than what Gavin Newsom and J.B. pritzker and other blue state abortion on demand governors have done with abortion tourism since Dobbs. We're going to go over some, some numbers on sentiments right now. But that has got to hit people, doesn't it? Even people who are, you know, kind of lukewarm on the subject.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Yeah, it's just the sheer arrogance. Yeah. I think people who are lukewarm or undecided or. And then as you mentioned, the polling is really changing on this. They at least are ambivalent. They're not thinking you are stealing women's health care, their ability to get antibiotics. And I am outraged. And I'm going to send antibiotics into your state. I don't care what you say. Clearly there's a cognitive dissonance. They're not thinking through what most Americans are, which is, you know, this is at a minimum a difficult moral issue with which I've got to grapple. Are there two people, Are there two patients? What is that thing that's happening in an abortion? What is it? What is that thing? That's what people are asking even more poignantly since Dobbs than they ever were before. And yet Gavin Newsom and Kathy Hochul and all these others, Hochul of being the governor of New York, they are like the, Well, I would say Gavin Newsom especially. He's like the arrogant student government president that doesn't hear and never look you in your face. He's looking beyond you, not seeing anybody in the crowd. He just sees a crowd, not any individuals in the crowd. And he's going to, with his arrogance will overstep. He and I believe that that is who he is. Certainly on this and many other things. He, you know, he's hoping to moderate on a few things to be a little bit more attractive, to be the, the front runner. And maybe he'll succeed on this one. He won't. He can't. The base won't let him. And, and is he walking into exactly what, what happened in the last presidential, which was put all your chips on just the abortion issue, don't talk about anything. This is the only thing happening. And then, and then lose because you've over, you've over evaluated what it can do for your. Beyond your base.

[Matt Kittle]

Yeah, that would be extremely fatal given all that is happening in the world today and the many concerns that Americans have both at home and obviously abroad. We are officially in a market riptide with Iran.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

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[Matt Kittle]

Our guest today is Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America on the fight for life in another critical election year. Yeah, it is, it is amazing to see that you have people so just absolutely callous to, to these life issues that see no have no compunction about abortion all the way up to the the time of birth in, in so many of these cases. I mean that's exactly what they support. Maybe it's because their SAT scores weren't so high, you know.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

You know, one.

[Matt Kittle]

But there are, there are a lot of people who, like yours truly that didn't get such great SAT and ACT scores. But we can see what a life is, you know.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Yeah. No, I think sometimes it's the overthinking that's the problem. It's the smarty pants that or the people who are so sophisticated that they're going to use their arrogance like the eugenic system that started the abortion. You know, we are so smart. We want more people like us and we want fewer people like those people. They don't think like me, they don't look like me. They're from other places. They're taking up space where I'd like to be and I'm kind of sick of them and they're kind of yucky. Those are not the words they use. But that's the, that's the unsophisticated way to describe the in crowd, the sophisticated crowd like the like thinkers and the like minded that were Margaret Sanger, who started the head of the eugenics movement, who started Planned Parenthood and was very clear that there were certain acceptable and unacceptable people. This is in a straight line legacy. Gavin Newsom and Hochul and the heads of the Democratic Party in general. I think that, I wonder sometimes that the vice grip the Democratic Party has on the thinking on this topic with their candidates think that if it just relaxed a tiny bit, allowed moral conscience to flourish just a tad, then they would actually do much better. Because at least they could say, and I'm not their advisor, but at least they could say, well, let's don't make people pay for it. At least people are grappling with this morally. And while there is an affordability crisis, maybe we shouldn't make them pay for abortions through their tax dollars. That seems reasonable. Also. It seems reasonable that then unless you're saving the life of the mother or some other horrible thing, maybe we shouldn't allow abortions in the last two trimesters or maybe the last trimester. I mean, these are things that real human beings, Democrats, independents, Republicans, non political people at all. That's what they're actually thinking. And Democrats are not allowed to move an iota. Ever since Obama, even under Clinton, it was slightly marginally different, at least in his language, but now, no way. So don't tell them that. That would be a great strategy for them to win the presidency if they get somebody other than Gavin Newsom.

[Matt Kittle]

That's true, but I don't think we run any risk of that, quite frankly, because it's sad. But yeah, and here's why, Marjorie. Because not just Democrats, but people who were all, we all fail, we all come.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Are you sure?

[Matt Kittle]

I'm pretty sure about this. Now listen, I've been around the block a time or two at 50 plus

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

here, and I'm gonna talk to your wife.

[Matt Kittle]

Yeah, well, she will tell you, she will give you a list of all of my failings. But that's, but see that's the thing is that, you know, if you have to think about as Democrats would have to, would have to wrestle with this moral issue if they, if they let any of that light come in. That's right, it would break. It would start to melt the callus around the heart.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

That's exactly, exactly what. I'm sorry, go ahead, Matt. I didn't mean to interrupt.

[Matt Kittle]

No, no, but that's, but that's what I see. And, and I guess, you know, your battle is the same no matter what at Susan B. Anthony and that is to change hearts and minds, to go out there and, and really have conversations with people. But I look at the latest Pew numbers And you know, you have to deal with the realities. According to the, the latest polling, the numbers are slightly down, but still about 60% of U. S. Adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. And that is a, a battle that never ends.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Yeah, well, you know, in that same poll, yeah, that, that is true. And the way polls are written always matters. But if that, that wrong number also matters, I'm not going to dismiss it. But in that same poll, 76% of Americans thought that there should be some limits.

[Matt Kittle]

Right?

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

And so that is what it means to take somebody where they are in the fight for the heart and fight for laws. And you, you, you start somewhere. You know, as much as many of us want to have it all, we have to start somewhere because not everybody agrees with us. That's what we get taught when we're in kindergarten. You, you give and take even on something so important. Again, every other human rights movement understood this, and I think that's what, what you do. So you, you try to gain, you go where you make a law, where consensus is, where, where it's clear that consensus is. And then when that happens, people, I mean, as a convert to the cause, I can say then the yarn in the sweater starts to pull and you're like, well, why did I think that I shouldn't pay for that while I could pay for somebody else's antibiotic? Well, because it's different. Well, how is it different? Now that's the kind of conversation that Democrats won't allow. And when you ever see a debate, doesn't matter who it is, one of their consultants, one of their candidates, and one of their activists, they won't have the conversation about what abortion is, what is that that is being taken out, what is it that is when they lose. And that's why they won't go there. They'll always just repeat. They're good at block and tackle. Oh, not going to go there. That's what cognitive resistance really is. That's literally what their brains either can't or won't go there and won't allow it to integrate. So I, anyway, I think, I think that's different from most people. And you know, the, the 75% of the people who are really grappling with this, who want 76% of the people who want some restrictions. What are those restrictions? Let's talk about those. That's where you start.

[Matt Kittle]

Absolutely. And I think that's critically important in, in this election year. So I guess that that's, that's what I, I'd like to, to know. You know, you talked about the $80 million. You invest a lot into the changing of hearts and minds and motivating people to, to get out and vote. How do you do that in particular? What's the, what's the ground game? What's the strategy like?

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Well, first, I'll wax a little sentimental about how amazing these people on the ground are. I've never seen anything like it. It's the closest thing we have to taking this to the public square, because it is door to door. These conversations are more than you might think. You're there to do your job, to gain a vote, to draw a contrast. For instance, the numbers of people who think that you shouldn't abort a baby when a child feels pain are out the roof. And they tend. That has been, over the years, the thing that has really been the greatest contrast, meaning our candidates believe that you should, you should at least do that. So that's like 12 to 15 weeks or so, is when a baby starts to feel pain contrasted with the other candidate who wants it up to the end, also wants you to pay for it. Both of those issues are very strong issues. They don't go away because they keep getting debated and voted on over and over, including in this Congress. So that, that. But there's also the human element, of course, in any of these conversations. It's the most deeply human conversation you could have is about human life. And so very often you're going to find these incredible people who are going door to door having a conversation with women who've had abortions but never talked about them. Now they're leaning, they're either leaning towards us or they're already with us. That's. And, but, but might not vote. So that's who we're generally talking to. But many of us have had terrible experiences and some people, they're experiencing raw pain. So I mean, that is not the number one job. But I do really profoundly believe that the spirit is at these homes. And when two or three are gathered together in his name, he's there too. You know, it's not a religious visit. It's not, you know, Mormons coming to visit and get you to go to church. It's about a vote, but there's a lot going on there. And otherwise, to answer your question, we communicate in all sorts of ways via mail. People still read their mail. Actually, there's less mail now. So some people actually do read their mail. We do through texts, which everybody hates, but everybody reads, especially when it gets close to the election. So every form and digital ads, so you've got the visual conversation in addition to the written conversation, in addition to the human conversation, kind of the surround sound idea of how you communicate with a voter. And that will happen in the Senate battlegrounds, a lot of House battlegrounds and some gubernatorial battlegrounds. And one thing we haven't talked about, but you and I do a lot, and that is about the importance of Iowa and South Carolina. We've got a lot going on there for this election, but as everyone knows, Iowa and South Carolina are vital for 2028 and who our president is moving out of 2028 or the nominee is, and hopefully president is the linchpin for the pro life movement in the future in terms of our ability to pass laws that will save lives and protect the laws that are already in effect.

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[Matt Kittle]

Is it a matter of getting. Using the technology as well? Text messages and I guess as you mentioned, it's, it's finding people where, where they are, wherever, where, wherever they're communicating, wherever they, whatever technology or whatever means of communication they're using, this effort is, is targeting them, is that that's where

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

you want to be. And so that. And so what? Whatever kind of community, all those communication methods that I, that I mentioned are all saved within our system. Everybody who's going to door has a tablet and they, they, the person at the door knows they're going to write down what they've said. They have this conversation, you know where they've landed you f you. If they are willing, they say who they plan to vote for. Then you make sure they vote. You follow up later with here's your absentee ballot information and then have you voted? And then you nag like a mama. Did you vote? Did you vote? Until you know that they voted? Because we do know when they vote because that's public information whether somebody has voted. You can't know how they voted, but you can know that they voted. And so then you move on to the next person that times ten and a half million. So that's a lot. Ten and a half million voters in all those battlegrounds. Ten and a half million in, again, those Senate houses, gubernatorial battlegrounds. And so it's a lot. And it's a massive network. And I'm. I just have to say, when I say things like that, because I'm sitting at home right now with a broken foot. This is where the pro life. This is where this. This is where this organization began, was in my home and where it was really me. And there's only one reason that it succeeded, and it is the truth at the heart of this battle. And a lot of people that had a lot more talent than I, but the ability to grow and expand with technology and human interaction and persuasion is. That's just. That is just what a human rights movement is. And we're in the middle of that. I really think we'll look back, maybe not you and me, maybe our grandchildren, and say, wow, that. That was. That was something I was proud to live through, and I'm proud I was on the right side of it.

[Matt Kittle]

Well, part of it is working through pain, literally, as you noted in your case. But you are. You are like, you know, it's. It's March Madness time.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Kittle]

You know.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

You know, Duke is the only candidate out there.

[Matt Kittle]

Well, that's, that's, that's what I hear. I know some Wolverine fans who might disagree, and this Wisconsin Badger fan might have something to say about it. Long, long shots included. But no, you know, this time of the year, you got to play through the pain.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

That's right.

[Matt Kittle]

You've had a long season, but the battle has. Has just begun. And, you know, you're kind of like that, you know.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Well, you are, too.

[Matt Kittle]

64 player. Yeah.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Yeah. Well, you know, I, I'm being honest. Like, I have never been more excited than I am about the presidential 2028 campaign. That must make some people just feel tired to hear that, but not me, because. Because it has so much potential to absolutely steer the direction of this country on this one issue. That is the. The, the right. The first right that anyone will ever have is the right to live. And who the president is will be the person who establishes the legacy of the Dobbs decision. The post Roe era, it either just kind of fizzled out and states kind of did stuff, and then it got undermined with pills and st. And then everybody kind of forgot about the issue, which nobody will ever forget about it, but it'll just kind of seed back. I don't believe the movement will allow that. But what I think can happen because of the, how riveting this issue, how true it is, how central it is, is that we will have a presidential candidate. They're going to have to prove it to the Iowa and South Carolina voters, but we will have a candidate who will be a national pro life leader. I believe that will be true. I believe in the people who are running that they. Well, let me just say this. I think that they will know that they're going to need to be that person in order to win the nomination. And that is for anybody who loves the, the gifts that the founders gave us to influence and change deeply, fundamentally wrong things. That's the best, that's one of the best gifts you can ever have. Iowa, of course, is the first of all. And I know you're proud of that. And I. And so without two of the three primary states, without winning two out of those three, you, you simply can't get, you can't win the nomination. So being in a will, we are, we are and will be in Iowa and South Carolina for quite some time.

[Matt Kittle]

It is critical to get off to a good start. And that's why you have so many of these candidates basically taking up residence Iowa for the better part of 18 months. Yeah, you'll be, you will be here often as well. I know that for sure.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Only because they are right. Exactly.

[Matt Kittle]

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And of course the, the Democrats have absolutely given up on Iowa, but the Republicans holding firm. So that's going to be a huge part of this, as it has been for a long time. Are you at all concerned back to kind of where we started, that we're going to have some pro life voters this year taking it out on Trump, you know, basically taking it out on Trump through candidates on, you know, on the, the ballot, Republican candidates, conservative candidates on the ballot who just did not step up more so for the right to life fight.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

It's a moment to stand up. If you didn't stand up. Yes, it's a problem, I think. And, and our polling has showed that we did a big national signal poll and oversampled Iowa and South Carolina. And what we see is that weakening on this issue, specific ones like the Hyde amendment, like the abortion drug weakening on it makes 32% of the people less likely to vote, period, 34% less likely to volunteer. But you know, huge numbers like 70 and over think this is important, an important part and very influential in their vote and whether they vote in the next election. So the answer to that is. Yes, I have no doubt about that. That's a problem. Where I have great faith though is the, this intensity of this movement to make sure, and the work I'm specifically doing to make sure that voters know actually what they're voting on. They're not voting on who's the president in 2024. They're voting on who will be their senator, who will be their governor, who will be the linchpin House member in their state. To keep the slim margin in the House, to keep the pro life majority in the Senate and most importantly on pro life laws immediately, who will your governor be? That is what it'll be about. And it takes that constant communication which people say they hate, but then most people don't seem to know what's going on until the very last minute. That constant communication about the contrast between the candidates and that is what if you don't start way out like, like we have done already, you're competing with so much, the message might not get through. Yes, it's a problem. Yes, we have the power to kind of pierce through that problem to reality, which is who are you actually voting on?

[Matt Kittle]

So final question for you as we look ahead. And November will be here, as you know, before we know it. Yeah, it's, it's, it just, that's the way it is. And there is a very, as we know, a very slim window of opportunity for anything substantial to get done in Washington D.C. before we hit campaign season. But yeah, what, what happens if conservatives lose the House? What happens if they also by chance lose the Senate in 2026?

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

Yeah, we're going to go from March Madness to Halloween Surprise. Right. You know, Halloween, there's always some big put somebody puts out there on a candidate and nobody has a chance to respond. So in that space of time it'll all get determined and, and there's a lot in between. But as you, as you say, the bottom line will be on, on that day and if we, you know, we've got what, one, a one vote margin in the House and we're historically in a tough place, meaning we've got a sitting president who's a Republican and it's a Republican majority, people are voting any disgruntlement and around the edges kind of mitigates against the Republicans. So it, I mean it will take a lot of work and so be tough if we lose either, if we lose the House, we lose the best speaker we've ever had in Mike Johnson, hands down. There's never been another speaker, believe it or Not I've been here since Tip o', Neill, really an incredible man, a great human being that politics is, is not, not near the first reason that he's involved in all of this. And I think anybody who knows about them or knows that him knows that that loss in itself, him as an advocate and him at the center of policy is, would be huge for life. To lose him as the speaker on the and as a backstop for every. Wherever the administration weakens on something, we need the House to be strong and to make up for it and to press if there's a problem on the Hyde Amendment, you know, the keeping taxpayer footing out of abortion, which the House has a lot to do with, it'd be a big problem. Nobody wants to pay for abortion through their taxes. In the Senate, of course, equally important in the overall battle for what bills get sent to the president, but also because in that space of years there will be many judges confirmed. We don't know what level it could be as high as the Supreme Court. So the consequences are not medium for a midterm. They're still very strong. And taken in conjunction with who the next president is, will determine whether the president that we hope is, we don't know literally who he is, but hopefully he's a good strong pro life president, whether he'll have a team or not, having an ability to do anything or not. And I think a lot of people who are listening here like, oh yeah, you know, we, we get it and then we don't get to do anything. And that really misses a lot. It misses our disappointment should not outshadow two things. One is the opportunity to make an enormous difference on life and other policies too. And that what a really great strong president who's compelling with the leader of the country, but also in the House and Senate, what they could do. And it also misses the point what the Democrats will do. And on the life issue, I can tell you first up, they have no problem legislating on this on a federal level. They will absolutely press if they've got the House, Senate and presidency immediately, they will pass a law that will strike down every pro life protection in every state across the country, even medium level ones in states like, you know, like Virginia or Illinois, you know, just kind of tiny little things that you take for granted. So it'd be absolutism on this issue and many others.

[Matt Kittle]

Yeah, you can set your watch by it. Just like you can set your watch that if Democrats get the House back, they're going to impeach Donald Trump. Yes, because that's what they do.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

That's what they do. They'll spend all their time doing that.

[Matt Kittle]

Yeah, exactly. And I have to tell you, you put me in the Wayback Machine talking about Tip o', Neill, and I want to tell you, the old. The old speaker back in the 1980s. I wonder what he would think of his party today. I just. I think about those things.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

I. It would make his head spin. I think he must be spinning in his grave over. Over. One thing we all know, anybody who ever knew of him was his civility. Like, he fought hard, but he was. He was not a mean human being. And then also his party was mostly pro life, including him a lot of the time.

[Matt Kittle]

Yeah.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

And the Appropriations chairman. All but a couple were pro life. He allowed that to flourish because he believed that it was a matter of conscience. So he would hate what he sees on this right now.

[Matt Kittle]

I think it would turn his hair black. You know, he had that, that. That big coif hair, you know.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

That's right.

[Matt Kittle]

The silver fox.

[Marjorie Dannenfelser]

He was very likable. He really was. Was.

[Matt Kittle]

Yeah. Indeed. Well, the fight is. Is critical. As you mentioned, it is foundational. It is the first of the promises of the Declaration of Independence as we celebrate 250 years, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And you can't have the other two without the foundation of life and a country that has the moral fortitude to protect it. Thanks to my guest today, Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America. You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.

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