‘You're Wrong' With Mollie Hemingway And David Harsanyi, Ep. 200: The People Have Spoken

Summary

Federalist Radio Hour
“You're Wrong” With Mollie Hemingway And David Harsanyi, Ep. 200: The People Have Spoken
Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Matt Kittle (with guest hosts Mollie Hemingway & David Harsanyi)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mollie Hemingway (Editor-in-Chief, The Federalist) and David Harsanyi (Senior Writer, Washington Examiner) explore the aftermath of recent Republican primaries, the dynamics of political loyalty and principles within the party, and shifts in the landscape of American popular culture. Their conversation ranges from the fate of Sen. Bill Cassidy and Rep. Thomas Massie to the cancellation of Stephen Colbert’s late-night show, the evolution of shared American culture, and recommendations for engaging books and art. Throughout, Hemingway and Harsanyi use candid, opinionated, and often humorous language, pushing listeners to question conventional narratives.

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Key Discussion Points

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1. Airline Frustrations and Modern Travel

Timestamps: [00:46–03:56]

• Brief personal anecdotes open the episode, with David describing his hellish recent travel, being stuck in a plane for three hours after landing.
• Mollie jokes it meets the "legal definition of kidnapping," highlighting modern travel frustrations.
• Notable quote:

  “At one point, the pilot said that they were bringing out a staircar thing, which I use all the time at Reagan. ... But they brought up the wrong sized stair car, so we had to wait a little longer for that.” – David Harsanyi [03:01]

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2. The Fall of Bill Cassidy in Louisiana

Timestamps: [03:59–14:07]

• Cassidy's third-place finish in the GOP primary tied to his impeachment vote against Trump and perceived lack of advocacy for Louisiana voters.
  • Mollie: “I think he dropped all his principles to vote for RFK, who, you know, I am, you know, don't think highly of at all. I found that to be incredibly cowardly. So I'm happy that that didn't save his job.” [04:22]
  • David: “The real problem is that Cassidy was not delivering for the people of Louisiana in the way that the people of Louisiana cared about, or at least the primary voters ... Cassidy trying to impeach Trump did not put him in a good relationship with Trump. ... So the people of Louisiana clearly weren't feeling particularly having their needs well met by Cassidy.” [05:27]
• Both push back against media narratives that Trump’s “hold” on the Republican Party is uniquely strong, noting parallels with historic presidential influence.
  • Mollie: “This idea that Trump has some magical hold over senators is ridiculous. The plenty of Republican senators outran Donald Trump locally because they're liked, because they give the people what they want.” [07:52]
• Exploring the “principle” narrative, criticizing DC pundit-class for lauding Cassidy’s principles post-loss.
  • David: “What you're describing is not principle. ... Some people like me actually prefer the open vindictiveness and pettiness.” [13:15]

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3. On Political Principles and Pragmatism

Timestamps: [14:07–17:35]

• A reflection on whether politicians act out of true principle or calculated popularity.
  • Mollie: “Normal Americans just hold positions. ... You should just be do what you got to do.” [14:21]
  • David draws from his own book on Alito, discussing the value of clear rules and morals.
  • Conversation around Chief Justice John Roberts as an example of selective principled consistency.

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4. Supreme Court, Birthright Citizenship, and Dobbs Decision

Timestamps: [17:35–20:15]

• The complexity of Supreme Court reasoning, especially with birthright citizenship cases tied to the 14th Amendment.
  • David: “It'll be interesting to see on the birthplace citizenship case whether they ... say it's up to Congress ... If they do that, then that will show they're being consistent.” [17:35]
  • Mollie draws a link to Dobbs and the court returning issues to legislative branches.

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5. Thomas Massie’s Primary and Libertarianism in Congress

Timestamps: [20:15–29:53]

• Discussion of Rep. Thomas Massie’s primary fight, his Ron Paul-style libertarianism, and controversy over his handling of the Epstein files.
  • Mollie: “They don't move anything forward. They're just standing there preening. ... How he acted during the Epstein file debate I think was remarkably irresponsible. Not something a libertarian would do.” [20:54]
  • David: “It's totally fine and good even to be concerned about people like Epstein and ... want information to come out ... but there's also a responsibility ... If you are a member of Congress you should know better about rule of law.” [22:07]
• On campaign dynamics: outside money, Israel-Palestine politics, accusations of anti-Semitism in Massie’s campaign strategy.
  • Mollie: “He puts little Jewish stars up in ads, you know, and stuff like that, which obviously upsets me.” [24:26]
  • David: “How are you conveying you oppose that? ... There are ways, I don't want to be overly sensitive to it.” [25:42]
• Debate about the efficacy of hardline, "principled" legislators:
  • Mollie: “Why are you there if you're just going to stand up there and showboat about how principled you are every day? ... Do it on a podcast.” [26:00]
  • David: “You can handle your time in Congress however you want to. It's up to the individual. Incrementalism is a choice.” [27:33]
  • Distinction between Rand (effective) and Ron Paul (showboat).

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6. Washington D.C. Culture & Political Weirdness

Timestamps: [29:29–30:59]

• Observations about the personal foibles of political figures, the nastiness of intra-party races, and the unique dysfunctions of life in D.C.
  • Mollie: “I will never forgive Washington, never, for making me read about the sex lives of these people. ... There's something wrong with you.” [29:29]
  • David: “Something very wrong with a lot of these people. ... I am so thankful to have a happy, healthy marriage.” [29:53]

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7. The Death of Late-Night TV and the Fragmentation of American Culture

Timestamps: [31:34–46:31]

• Colbert’s exit serves as a lens for the decline of common American popular culture.
  • “It is incredibly tedious watching the comedian turn into that person for real. ... Stephen Colbert, he made fun of pompous midwits. He is a pompous midwit. ... Are you telling me that Bernie Sanders whiny socialist nonsense is actually appealing or entertainment or entertaining to people?” – Molly [31:34]
  • Noting Colbert’s frequent promotion of leftist politicians and his alienation of half the country.
• Personal reminiscences: loving Johnny Carson’s nonpartisan, inclusive humor and lamenting the politicization of late night.
  • David: “What has happened in general to the late night franchises is just so sad. It's a loss of a country when we had a shared culture.” [36:05]
• The role of the internet and cable/satellite TV in breaking up monoculture.
  • Mollie: “I don't know that we ever had a monoculture, but it was definitely a way to have common culture.” [38:47]
• Economic impracticality for legacy late night shows; praise for the podcast model as a new space for wide-reaching, lower-cost cultural conversation.

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8. Culture, Art, and the Pursuit of Beauty

Timestamps: [46:31–52:46]

• Visit to New York's Met Museum and reflections on high art versus modern, intentionally grotesque art.
  • Mollie: “The virtue that is in beauty. You see the modern world rebelling against it and embracing actual ugliness … when you're in a museum with, in some cases, millennia of beauty behind it.” [46:58]
  • Emphasis on intentionality in personal culture, especially within family and religious communities.
• The value of reading and the shift away from widespread literary or artistic reference points.

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9. Personal Recommendations and Book Picks

Timestamps: [52:46–55:26]

• Molly and David share recent reads:
  • Athens and Sparta by Adrian Goldsworthy – for ancient history enthusiasts.
  • Love Goes to Buildings on Fire by Will Hermes – on NYC music history, late ‘70s punk, jazz, salsa, disco, and more.
  • Will Hermes’ biography of Lou Reed also recommended as a compelling music read.
• The importance of seeking out art and literature that challenges as well as affirms beauty and tradition.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If you triangulate everything to keep yourself as popular as you need to be, it's a difficult way to live. And it's almost impossible to be principled.” – Molly Hemingway [16:03]
• “Incrementalism is a choice. You don't have to be. Sometimes it is better.” – David Harsanyi [27:33]
• “Johnny Carson became the host... only days before the Cuban Missile Crisis, the closest we've ever come to nuclear war... yet he could do it without politicizing everything.” – Molly Hemingway [44:25]
• “What has happened in general to the late night franchises is just so sad. It's a loss of a country when we had a shared culture.” – David Harsanyi [36:05]
• “Find a good spouse and have a happy marriage with them and life is infinitely better.” – David Harsanyi [29:53]

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Conclusion & Tone

Hemingway and Harsanyi offer a critical, witty, and often nostalgic look at both political events and the state of American life. Their discussions emphasize skepticism toward establishment narratives—especially those blaming Trump alone for Republican shifts—and a lament for lost avenues of shared experience in politics and the arts. The episode closes with personal book recommendations and a call for listeners to stay engaged and principled, echoing the show's consistent blend of cultural commentary and political analysis.

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Contact & Feedback
Listeners are invited to share feedback and recommendations at: [e-mail]

Final Note:
“Be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.”

Transcript

[Molly Hemingway]

Want to be a star?

[David Harsanyi]

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[Molly Hemingway]

Welcome back everyone to a new episode of you're Wrong with Molly Hemingway, editor in chief of the Federalist, and David Harsanyi, senior writer at the Washington Examiner. Just as a reminder, if you'd like to email the show, please do so at radio@the federalist.com we'd love to hear from you. So, Molly, I saw yesterday you were stuck on a plane that had landed for three hours. Is that true?

[David Harsanyi]

I was stuck on a plane for three hours after it landed, yes. And it wasn't exactly taking off totally on time either. And the previous flight had gotten delayed three hours. So I switch to this new flight. So it was, it was not a great day of travel. And I've been doing a lot of travel recently. I have a very, very, very long flight today to a different country. I flew up and back from New York to do some stuff for Fox on Sunday and Monday and on Thursday through Saturday, I flew out to California and back. So it's just been one of those weeks where you're barely home and you're on a plane a lot. But to get on this flight that was different than the one that was delayed for three hours, I had to sit in the back row. And I am pretty claustrophobic. So I invest so much time and energy into not sitting in the back of a plane. It's usually okay if it's not rainy out. I don't know why that matters so much if the mugginess of the air just makes me feel like I can't breathe. But to be trapped in this tiny regional plane for that long. At the end, someone said something to me like they didn't know I was claustrophobic, but someone said something about how calm we'd all been and how calm I had been. And I was deeply appreciative because inside I felt like I was on the verge of a panic attack the whole time.

[Molly Hemingway]

I feel like surely what happened to you meets the legal definition of kidnapping. I mean, you're literally holding someone against their will for hours. I don't know if anyone signs off on such a thing. It should never happen. They should just let you out on the outside, like bring one of those old fashioned stairs things to you.

[David Harsanyi]

One of the delays that we experienced when we Landed and the pilot said, we might be here for an hour. That sounded insane. By the third hour, it was like, oh, yeah, this is where I live now. I live on a tiny regional plane. These are my family members and friends. But at one point, the pilot said that they were bringing out a staircar thing, which I use all the time at Reagan. It's a small airport. It's totally fine. I don't know why they didn't do this right away, but they brought up the wrong sized stair car, so we had to wait a little longer for that.

[Molly Hemingway]

I love the regional. I like the small regional planes. They're a lot more fun to fly than the big jets. For me, I like flying, but they cram you in there so tight these days that I. I don't know, I just. I don't like flying anymore. Okay. I think the travel.

[David Harsanyi]

Okay, good show this week. Talk to you later.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah. Where do you want to start? Let's start with Bill Cassidy, senator in Louisiana who lost his. His primary race in the Republican Party. I think he came in third. Right. So the top two, I believe, have run. Have a runoff or something like that.

[David Harsanyi]

I believe so. The top two who reach a certain threshold. Yeah.

[Molly Hemingway]

Right. So he's been around a while and obviously. Well, it's not obvious, I guess, but he did vote to convict Trump in 2021 over the impeachment over the Capitol riot. That one was retroactive impeachment. Correct. After Trump was gone, he probably, in my estimation, didn't ever think Trump would be back. But Trump is back and he's the president, and that probably cooked him. I'll let you speak in a second. I'll just say I don't care about him because I think he, whatever you say about the rest of his career, the way that he, I believe, dropped all his principles to vote for rfk, who, you know, I am, you know, don't think highly of it all. I found that to be incredibly cowardly. So I'm happy that that didn't save his job. Were you surprised by this? I wasn't very surprised. I thought this was something that people thought was a very real possibility.

[David Harsanyi]

Yeah. I was more interested in the commentary about Cassidy's loss than his loss. I saw some people immediately say, oh, this is what happens when you cross Trump. And it is certainly true that Cassidy trying to impeach Trump did not put him in a good relationship with Trump. That's true. But the real problem is that Cassidy was not delivering for the people of Louisiana in the way that the People of Louisiana cared about, or at least the primary voters of Louisiana cared about. And I know Trump is a very important person. I know he's a powerful person. I know that, you know, if he endorses or says not to vote for someone, that usually has a profound effect. I'm not denying any of that. But it annoys me how the people always get removed from any discussion, particularly when it involves Trump. So, you know, going back to 2015, 2016, the idiot pundit class of DC would always say, like, oh, Trump is making people be this way, instead of realizing that Trump was responding to the desires of the people for a different approach to all sorts of things, whether it was illegal immigration to, you know, things that you probably like and things you don't like. You know what I mean? Illegal immigration or protectionism or thing, you know, there's. There's a part of the Republican Party that was not having its desires met, and he was responding to it, not creating it. And I'm not, again, denying that he has an outsized role here. So the people of Louisiana clearly weren't feeling particularly having their needs well met by Cassidy. He came in, it was all about how he's a doctor and he's going to fix Obamacare. And that did not happen. He did not have leadership in this aspect of things. And he just seemed like another one of those Republican politicians who will go along with whatever the Democrat is. Info op of the day is, as evidenced by his impeachment vote. I'm not surprised the people of Louisiana, of all places, would say, yeah, we just, we could do much better than this. And I don't know who, you know, which of the two that made the runoff are better, but they've got to be better than Cassidy.

[Molly Hemingway]

Well, yeah, I don't know anything really about the. Is it Julia Letlo, I think is the name. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. I am. I'm happy he brought this up. This idea, and we've been dealing with forever, that Trump has this hold on the party that is somehow unique. Unique is, I think, I think, largely a myth. How many senators, when, you know, stood up and went against Barack Obama or even Bill Clinton or George W. Bush, none do. The president always has this kind of hold on the party. They're just not so direct about it, and they don't air their grievances in public. If you're a disloyal to Barack Obama, trust me, the whole Obama machine was going to probably destroy your political career. Or try to, at least. So this idea that, that Trump has some magical hold over senators is ridiculous. The, the plenty of Republican senators outran Donald Trump locally because they're liked, because they give the people what they want. And I'm not saying part of that's not being loyal to the president, the Republican president. But I just. This idea that it's some kind of like illiberal, undemocratic, top down control is

[David Harsanyi]

ridiculous, particularly when you're dealing with the type of things that get noticed for this, oh, he went against Trump, so he's out versus oh, he like for Obama, it would have been he failed to praise him at the level that we want. Therefore, he's out going against the president when it comes to literal impeachment of the president is pretty bad in the eyes of a lot of Trump voters. Whereas with Obama it would be like, oh, he didn't endorse him early enough. He's on the outsy list. I mean, I'm not even.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, well, I was just gonna say there were some stories about how Maha took its first head and RFK was there. I don't, I don't buy that that that was, that that had much to do with this. I, I know that maybe I, you think that, that that movement is more important than I do, but I just reading about this as it was going along, it didn't seem like it was a big or important factor in this. It just seemed like people got sick of the old guard. He went out against Trump, he impeached the Republican president, and he wasn't a team player and so Republicans turned on him.

[David Harsanyi]

Okay, so I do disagree with you on that a bit for you. Cassidy didn't win your heart because he didn't fight RFK enough for a lot of Republican voters. They thought that he fought RFK way too much. And polls do show that rfk, this is not in the Harsani household, but RFK is the most popular or sometimes just slightly less popular than he's the most popular cabinet secretary or the second most popular to Marco Rubio. They both are at the high levels of approval ratings. I know that RFK is polarizing, but your views are probably not the same views of a lot of primary voters who just thought how ridiculous it is that Cassidy voted for every single Biden appointee, no matter how reprehensible, but then made life difficult for his big, you know, on behalf of his big pharma friends for RFK Jr. So I do think that plays differently outside your world than in your World.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, that's fair enough. I don't buy that he is as popular as people think. Not because I'm not saying those polls aren't correct. I'm saying that people don't see him every day. He has no real power. He's not that important. I think he's as reprehensible as anyone in the Biden administration. In fact, he would have easily fit in in the Biden administration, I think. But I get it. But. So, anyway, this is gone because we're

[David Harsanyi]

at a part where we can make jokes about disabilities. Now, I'm not sure, but I saw a tweet the other day that just said, has RFK Jr just thought about clearing his throat?

[Molly Hemingway]

What is his disability, by the way? I can't even stand listening to that.

[David Harsanyi]

Oh, I don't know. Some vocal cord issue that he has. Okay. There was one other thing I wanted to say, which I also love about the D.C. pundit class. They say about Bill Cassidy, they're like, he went down because of his principles. He has principles, which is why he voted to impeach Donald Trump. When the Democrats tried to impeach him for reasons that were never entirely clear, it was his principles. And then without even waiting a breath, they'll say, and, boy, is he going to make life miserable for Trump during his last few months. It's like, well, if he's motivated by principle, there should be zero change whatsoever. Right.

[Molly Hemingway]

I might have fallen for the principle thing, but then if he had real principles, he wouldn't have. When Trump came back, he tried to get in Trump on Trump's good side. He voted for RFK Jr for cabinet position. So nomination.

[David Harsanyi]

So people would do the same thing no matter what.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah.

[David Harsanyi]

So if he's going to change and everybody says he's going to be so changed, he's going to be like Thom Tillis now, another principled person who, once he knew he couldn't win reelection, started being really bad to Donald Trump. It's like, these aren't. What you're describing is not principle. And it's also why it annoys me when people talk so much about how Donald Trump isn't principled. He's vindictive and petty. Okay. What you're describing about what you think Cassidy is going to do and what Tillis has done, that's vindictive and petty. So just be. Just, just describe them the same way. And some people like me actually prefer the open vindictiveness and pettiness. Like, if we're going to have to deal with it. I would like it to be more open than the way that these very effeminate DC Republicans act like they're so crafty when they're being petty.

[Molly Hemingway]

I don't know. I don't like the way we talk about the principal thing and I don't like your little feminine thing when anyone doesn't go along with Trump. But I'll tell you something.

[David Harsanyi]

No, I'm saying that if you go against him, just go against him like with your fist, not with this, like crap.

[Molly Hemingway]

Why can't you. Why? And I'm not speaking about those two, but why can't you just go along with him when you feel like it and not when you don't feel like it? Like what? I don't understand that, but I just want to say this principle thing. People sometimes like, mock me. Oh, you think you're so principled. This and that. That's just. I'm just talking like a normal human being. You think normal. No one talks about themselves the way politicians do. Do you think a normal American gives. I'm almost always cursing. I was telling Jordan the other day that I should just let loose and then she'll bleep it out later. The. No, the. What was I going to say? So the, the normal American just holds positions. He's not like, oh, I'm principled. He doesn't like, think about his, how he's perceived by others and what he's doing. You should just be do, do what you got to do. I know it doesn out politically, but, you know, Cassidy's a doctor. He can go back to whatever kind of doctor he is. I don't even know, you know, and

[David Harsanyi]

that's my Alito book is all about that issue of being principled and pragmatic, you know, thinking about being prudential, thinking through how things are going to affect other people. But I was realizing recently that my own autistic tendencies are, are added on to by my inability to remember complex things. And so for me, principle just makes things very easy. How do I operate in a certain environment? I'm going to it with my rules and then I think through how those rules apply to the situation. This is, this is like the best thing my parents gave me were these clear rules and morals and ideas. It's just easier than if you have to be trying to decide in a particular situation why you're going to act this way.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah. If you triangulate everything for to keep yourself as popular as you need to be, it's a difficult way to live. And it's almost impossible to be principled.

[David Harsanyi]

I mentioned this in the Alito book as well. Many bright, thoughtful, conservative law types really do not have high regard for Chief Justice John Roberts because he tends to be all over the place. He'll rule like one way in one case, and then like the very same case comes a few years later and he's the other way on that. But one person pointed out to me, he's actually quite principled on the things he cares about, which for him is thankfully, affirmative action. He's very principled on it. He thinks racism is bad and it should not be. We should not pretend like it's in the Constitution when it's explicitly forbidden in parts of it. And he's very principled on that.

[Molly Hemingway]

Doesn't it seem like he is consistent in the sense that he feels he wants a court that doesn't undermine the Democratic. I disagree with this, but that does as little as possible to undermine the democratic will of people that it shouldn't really be involved in politics. I guess the Obamacare decision kind of is the most famous time that he's kind of given a speech about that. The court's not there to save you from yourselves. I think it is, actually. But is it fair to say as some kind of principled consistency in that view?

[David Harsanyi]

I don't think many people would agree with that completely. Yes, he and the Court in general tends to say, okay, it's not about whether we like the president or not. There is a strong executive branch and here's what they get to do. Or it's not whether we think Congress is functioning or not right now, but this is given to Congress so they will handle it. And he's part of that. And I think that's a really underrated part of the success of the current court. And it's a big theme that Sarah Isger keeps trying to point out to people about that the court isn't acting incoherently. It tends to have this practice that you see. But even on cases like that, he sometimes does not rule. That way is the beef that people would have. I think it'll be interesting to see on the birthplace citizenship case whether they do that because, like, the way. The way that the court that we're told it is, you know, would handle this, would say it's up to Congress to set policy for immigration, including the policy, which is not in the Constitution, of whether you get to be a citizen. Even if your mom came here to have you born and immediately went back to China, that's a policy issue that Congress should set. Probably they might say Congress or the President. If they do that, then that will show they're being consistent. And if not, it'll show otherwise. Probably.

[Molly Hemingway]

I don't think it should be the President. But is there any precedent to say the Constitution's so unclear on this question that we have to just give it back to the voters and let them essentially decide how this goes?

[David Harsanyi]

Well, not just. It's not clear. Well, you're saying. You're saying. Yeah, I'm thinking of Dobbs, but Dobbs wasn't saying that. It wasn't clear. It was saying. It's just not there.

[Molly Hemingway]

It's also just a decision. I mean, this is an. In an amendment of the Constitution, So

[David Harsanyi]

based on the same amendment. Right. The people who invented the right to abortion said it was in the 14th amendment. And the 14th amendment is also where we discuss birthplace citizenship. So the difference being that with Dobbs, it's just not in there. Abortion is not in there. Whereas different arguments about birthplace citizenship could arise from the 14th amendment. I think the originalist explanation has the most sway, that this does not mean that if you are born here to parents who are subject to another country that you are automatically a citizen. But we'll see. I'm not. I do not have high hopes. I just listened to those oral arguments again, and it didn't seem like the justices were locked in or really understood what was going on. And I don't usually say that about them. I think they're usually pretty good.

[Molly Hemingway]

Our next topic also, I think has something to do with alleged principles and all that. And let's talk about Thomas Massey, who's recording this. I have to say we're recording this on Tuesday, so by the time it airs. Right. Matthew will know if Matthews won his. His primary fight or not. Tom Massey is a libertarian. Can we say he's in the Ron Paul mold, where basically votes against any kind of spending or anything that he views as unconstitutional, though I don't actually think that's true. He's running against someone who isn't. I think it's Ed Gallerin, maybe.

[David Harsanyi]

I think so.

[Molly Hemingway]

Farmer, Navy seal, you know, impressive resume. I don't. Honestly, I don't know if he'll be a good congressman or not. I am. I am not a fan of Matt. I wasn't a fan of Ron Paul's either, despite my libertarian inclination. They don't move anything forward. They're just standing there preening. But when he went in on the end, and now I think he's off. I think he's off his rocker, basically. I think he's aligned himself with Jew haters and conspiracy theorists and all kinds of despicable leftists. But how he acted during the Epstein file debate I think was remarkably irresponsible. Not something a libertarian would do. You don't force the Justice Department to violate its policy, to embarrass people, to smear and malign people who committed no crimes without a trial. He did all of that. Keeps using the phrase Epstein class. And his supporters keep saying he brought, you know, pedophiles into the light. He did none of that. He did none of that. And so I hope he loses. I haven't talked to you at all about this. I don't know what is your take on, on Tom Massey?

[David Harsanyi]

I have a very similar thought as I did about the Louisiana voters. It is 100% up to his congressional district, whether they think he's doing a good job or not. I know there's a lot of outside money in that race, but I care about whether his district feels that they are being well represented by him. And I have conflicting feelings about him. I, I think it's a little bit overwritten how principled he is because he's had some really weird votes that he had during the Biden administration and other administrations. You know, key votes, like he voted a bad deficit busting budget out of committee. Didn't really make sense. Like, I don't know what vote trade was going on or why he would do it, because he does tend to be pretty principled about adding to the deficit, about war powers, about things like that. So I like, I have tended to like him. I don't think he's very smart about how he utilizes his power. And then also I thought the Epstein stuff is almost disqualifying. It's so bizarre the way he handled that and the way he, like, handled it. Not as an attorney would, I know he's a mathematician or whatever, but for political gain is not great. And I, I think it's totally fine and good even to be concerned about people like Epstein and what they do to people and to want information to come out about it. But there's also a responsibility, like, I will if someone that I encounter at a party is Epstein obsessed in a way that says, and he says something that's not quite right about the Epstein controversy. I'll be more forgiving than if you are a member of Congress who should know better about rule of law and why certain things are not released and why they shouldn't be and who's actually in the Epstein papers and you know, just not to be a complete crazy conspiracy theorist. So I assumed for the longest time that he would win no problem. But I saw some polls showing that he's having a battle there, so.

[Molly Hemingway]

Well, yeah, it looks like, I think the Real Clear Politics poll showed him behind now, I don't know. And part of this is also that he doesn't, he does not help the President accomplish his goals. And whether you like it or not, the President is the face of the party. He's the most powerful person in the party and the party says we could have someone there who's going to vote with this occasionally and that would be nice. People send out these rankings like he votes with Republicans 99% of the time. It's actually 71% in the last, I think few years, but not when it matters. That 1% is the 1% that Donald Trump cares about. So why wouldn't Donald Trump just speak out against him? It makes all the sense in the world. As for the money involved in this race, a lot has to do with foreign policy. There are a lot of pro, I would call it Islamist people throwing things in, you know, throwing money at the race and there are a lot of pro Israel people throwing money at the race and they have every right to do that. This is America and Americans. He keeps calling it foreign money. That's a lie that he, he perpetuates. He puts little Jewish stars up in ads, you know, and stuff like that, which obviously upsets me. But so I do hope he loses.

[David Harsanyi]

I mean it's a little, it's a little challenging. Right. Because he is an opponent of US foreign policy which is very allied with Israel, the symbol of which is the Star of David. So how are you conveying you oppose that? You know, there are ways, I don't want to be overly sensitive to it.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, I, but also he's on all these shows with these rank anti Semites. He, he's terrible. But the Jewish star they put wasn't the Israeli flag. He put, he, they made the Jewish star be a rainbow colored of David putting it next to Paul Singer's face, stuff like that. I mean, I'm not, you know, we're not, we don't have to be blind here about what's going on. In my view he's trying to say the election's bought by Jewish people. You could say that. And it's fine. I don't think that's a fair assessment by the way. Also I think People Money matters 100% in politics, but no one can force the voters of Kentucky to vote against him. And I doubt highly that most of them are going to vote against him because of Israel or anything to do with Israel. It's going to be about the Trump stuff. I think that's the most. And his inability and you know, to help the administration. If he loses, it's going to be close. He may win or maybe it won't be close. I don't know. I can't tell the future. I think he's useless. And I say this as someone who actually probably, in a larger sense, until recently, agree with most of what he's saying. You have to be an incrementalist. Why are you there if you're just going to stand up there and showboat about how principled you are every day? Don't go to Congress. Do, do it on a podcast. If you're there. You should be moving the ball forward in some way to help, you know, get some concessions, make the bill better. Do something. All guys like this do nothing. Him and Ron Paul, it was just like their little personal celebrity.

[David Harsanyi]

First of all, you can. You can handle your time in Congress however you want to. It's up to the individual. Incrementalism is a choice. You don't have to be. Sometimes it is better. In fact, I would say if Congress were less divided, like there were a stronger majority for either party, Massey's antics would be so much more favorable to the average voter because he would be this voice in the wilderness. He'd be saying, here's how we should be doing things. The problem for him, really, is that he has not handled this narrow majority as well as many Republicans would like. That's probably why he's having some struggles, as you know, going against popular Republican things like the war in Iran, which is popular with a lot of Republican voters, if not the rest of the country. And he's just done poorly. But Rand Paul, I actually think, has done a pretty good job.

[Molly Hemingway]

Oh, no, no, no. I was talking. I was talking about Ron Paul. Like, he is kind of the same template. He's the. Ron Paul is the template for what he's doing, which is just personal, like I said, preening about how principled you are and never giving in, but essentially doing nothing to. To help. Rand Paul is much more effective, I think, and does things that he's done

[David Harsanyi]

great work on some investigations dealing with government.

[Molly Hemingway]

You're a senator. You have a lot more power, it's fair to say. I don't know if you saw that story about Rand Paul's son. I don't really get into that, actually.

[David Harsanyi]

Okay. But I don't want to get into that. But that does remind me that this Massey race is far and away the nastiest primary race I have seen in a long time where people are pulling out personal stories about both candidates who are the, you know, running against each other in this primary that I really wish I had never encountered.

[Molly Hemingway]

I will never forgive Washington, never. For, for, for, for making me read about the sex lives of these people. I'm so sick of it, I can't tell you. But they all, not all, many of them. There's something wrong with them. Is something wrong with you? I don't know if it happens when you get to D.C. or you're there because something's already just a little messed up about you.

[David Harsanyi]

Something very wrong with a lot of these people. And it's not just the politicians. It's the people who just live here. And I am so thankful to have a happy, healthy marriage and a wonderful husband because it seems like that drives a lot of the problems here are these fetishes and weirdnesses and it's just a life hack. Find a good spouse and have a happy marriage with them and life is infinitely better

[Molly Hemingway]

indeed. Okay, I'm, I'm very happy. I don't live in that area anymore. I have to say, like, don't text

[David Harsanyi]

your weirdness to people. Just don't do that. You're gonna be weird.

[Molly Hemingway]

I don't, I want to, I want to Molly make fun of some text that Massey sent, but I'm not because I don't like to personalize things. But why? Yeah, I don't, I just don't know.

[David Harsanyi]

Well, and the guy he's running against also, I think twice married, twice divorced just makes things messy.

[Chris Markowski]

Financial media fails again and again. The Watchdog on Wall street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, Chris, help unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. This past week, one of the top stocks from CNBC gurus tanked 25% in one day. At some point in time, you have to understand it's entertainment programming. Whether it's happening in D.C. or down on Wall street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchdog on Wall street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

[Molly Hemingway]

Let's talk about another weirdo, Stephen Colbert, who is burying a 33 year old franchise late show on CBS this week. I, I will Sum it up like this. I think it was somewhat funny watching a comedian satirize like the pompous midwit news program host. It is incredibly tedious watching the comedian turn into that person for real. Do you know what I'm saying? That's what happened. That's the evolution. Stephen Colbert, he made fun of pompous midwits. He is a pompous midwit. Part is a midwit. Right now I'm happy he's gone. I have a statistic for you that might interest you that you might not even believe. So you can go on IMDb and see how many times someone appears on a show. Bernie Sanders, a Marxist, still not popular with most American, appeared on the Late show with Stephen Colbert 21 times making him the most frequent political guest in late night history. Are you telling me that Bernie Sanders whiny socialist nonsense is actually appealing or entertainment or entertaining to people? Do you think? Does anyone think that? Does any producer really think that? And am I supposed to feel bad about him losing his show after that? I'll give you some other people. Rashid Talib. Rashida Talib, Jamal Bowie Cori Bush AOC James Talarico. He him who says God is non binary and white skin spreads racism. He had on Zora Mamdani when he was running, you know, and the city comptroller Brad Lander, just this ridiculous person. Is that the first time do you think in late night history that a city accountant was on? Like who wants to see that though? Molly? To be fair, he had on some Republicans as well. He had on Liz Cheney and out of Kinzinger. So Dave Letterman, yeah, he's a liberal and he, you know, he said some stuff sometimes but it was more late. Late night was more of a common, it was like common cult culture. You could go on there and you could watch people and you didn't have to worry that they were going to just mock slack jawed conservative voters all the time and preach all the time like, like Colbert did some happiest show is dead. I'm unhappy that late night's over because I actually loved it growing up. I loved watching the Late Late show, whatever it was called with David Letterman and I like Johnny Carson even then. I like seeing Charo and Rodney, Rodney Dangerfield on it.

[David Harsanyi]

I don't know if because I'm my parents youngest child, they just gave up on enforcing order but I did not. From a young age I have not slept a lot and I used to stay up and watch the Johnny Carson show with my parents. I Mean, I'm talking like when I'm four and five, six, just sitting there eating my popcorn. And I loved Johnny Carson. Yeah, I think he's just so fine as a, as a talk show host and so entertaining and so much of what I learned about jokes and, you know, he had different comedians on and different celebrities and the flirtation and the, you know, he just was great. And one of my highlights was that my brother, when he was at a military prep school, he went to the Air Force Academy, but he was too young, he skipped a grade, so he was too young to go when right out of high school. So he went to this military prep school out in California and he and his buddy were pulled from the audience on Johnny Carson. Oh, and we have that on VHS somewhere. It's really exciting. I think it would have been his last year hosting that too. My brother just. Yeah, just loved him so much. And then I did also like David Letterman, although I found him a bit caustic sometimes in a way that just seemed like he was. I know most comedians have major issues in their lives, but he seemed to have a lot of anger issues that sometimes bled through in a way I didn't love.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, Carson was non threatening, but David Letterman, there was an edge there all the time and a little bit of darkness for sure.

[David Harsanyi]

Yeah. Never liked Jay Leno. Just wasn't my cup of tea.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, yeah, he wasn't great.

[David Harsanyi]

What has happened in general to the late night franchises is just so sad. It's a loss of a country when we had a shared culture. I was actually talking to one of my children about this, wondering if they understood what had happened to the country in the last few decades that we'd gone from a more of a monoculture where you could talk about things and experience them together, to not even having the same culture at all with a lot of people who live here. This particularly true in Northern Virginia, which has a very high legal and illegal immigrant population, but also true in other places where you've just kind of lost that American culture. And Stephen Colbert never quite did it for me, even when I was watching the Daily show and he was doing stuff there. What bothers me is that the way we regulate the public airwaves, we regulate that late night show as a news show. Same same way we regulate the View as a news show. In exchange for being given these massive gifts of public airwaves that you can make billions and billions of dollars from, you're supposed to have this public responsibility of presenting the news fairly and honestly. And some of the news shows are the Stephen Colbert show and the View. And that these people, in exchange for this amazing gift they got, did that. I mean, it never should have been regulated as a news show probably. But if you're supposed to have this responsibility to not be a partisan loser hack you, there's like failing at it and then there's Stephen Colbert failure, which is remarkable to observe. And the other thing that I found really interesting when he, when it was announced that he had lost so much money for the show that after decades of losing money, they were finally killing the show. I was shocked at how many stupid left wing people were devastated by this. I think it's almost like a televangelist for them that they have poured their, you know, they just, they worship and adore the product that he's worshiping and adore and they've built their lives around this left wing political philosophy that requires a lot of made up stories and, and like manipulation. And he was, he was like their Jerry Falwell. No, that's too mean to Jerry Falwell. I don't know who, like, who are the televangelists that were, oh God, what

[Molly Hemingway]

was that guy's name?

[David Harsanyi]

Jim and Tammy Faye Baker.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Harsanyi]

And, and so they feel like their faith is being attacked because it is.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, I think that's right. I, I, it's, I don't know that we ever had a mono culture, but it was definitely a way to have common culture. So if you go and watch old videos on YouTube of the Tonight show, which are very funny, quite often you will see a country music person sitting next to like a Catskills comedian. These people come from completely different worlds, but you could sit there and get kind of an overview of American culture, whereas you don't really get that anymore at all. Everyone's in their own boxes. Obviously. I think the Internet did that, had a lot to do with that or allowed that to happen. But we should also say like he lost a lot of money. I think it was 40 million a year. His ad revenue fell from 70 from 121 million in 2018 to around 70 million. He himself makes like 20 million. So in the cost of the show, it's prohibitive. Right. You can do a podcast if you're someone like Conan o' Brien as a podcast, it's very funny, very good. Fraction of the cost, fraction of the cost and you pull bigger audiences. So it's getting tough to make these sorts of shows. But if you're going to make one of these shows, why Would you cut off half your audience, you know, immediately? It makes no sense. And this is still a business. Entertainment is a business. And he didn't treat it like that. So he deserves whatever happens to him. I'm sure he'll be fine. He's, he's very wealthy. There was this, I was gonna write on this and I was doing some research and there's this interview with Johnny CARSON and in 1979, Mike Wallace from 60 Minutes interviews. And for people who are younger, Mike Wallace was a journalist who was a complete leftist in my view. I don't think he was. I think he's, he's much better than anything that's going on today in those kind of institutions. But still. So the question he asked was, do you get sensitive to Carson about the fact that people say he'll never joke about a serious controversy? And I just want to. It was funny to read that because by people he means people like himself, left wing media critics. No one of the 8 or 9 million people who watched every night cared that Johnny Carson wasn't talking about the Middle east or monetary issues. That's nonsense. But he also means you have to talk about serious issues in a way that we demand you talk about serious issues. It's like today, you know, if a singer is not talking about Gaza or something, he's, they're pressured by groups to talk about it. Not if Johnny Carson was a Republican, I have his biography. He was a kind of a moderate, Eisenhower brand Republican. But if he was out there every day slamming Jimmy Carter, slamming Ted Kennedy, slamming Democrats, Mike Wallace would have asked him, you know, people say you talk about politics too much. Are you bothered by that? They don't want you to talk about politics. They want you to talk about leftism and these Jimmy Kimmel and you know, Colbert do that. What's the guy on Jimmy Fallon I think does less or maybe very little of that. So.

[David Harsanyi]

And he's been vilified by his compatriots for not going along with their left wing insanity. They tried to cancel him for treating Donald Trump like the Republican presidential nominee in 2016. They were so upset. They all thought that they held this power and that if you, you had to join in to this dehumanization effort of Republicans and he didn't. And so they tried to cancel him.

[Molly Hemingway]

And here's Carson's answer, by the way, to Wallace. He said, it's a danger. It's a real danger. Once you start that, you start to get that self important feeling that what you say has great import and you know, strangely enough, you could use that show as a forum. You could sway people. And I don't think you should as an entertainer. Honestly, I don't mind political jokes as long as your political jokes go after everyone. But as we know, they never do.

[David Harsanyi]

You remember Carson would make jokes about everybody.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, he would, but. But they had no edge to them. He had a lot of politicians on. People say he never did, but that's not true. But it was meant as a way to. To humanize them, to speak to them like a normal person, not to lift them up. You know, it wasn't earned media. It was just a. But you remember, I think it was this year, like Joy Behar said, that you couldn't make fun of Obama. There's nothing to make fun of. Right. So I looked up, there was a column in 2009 by Maureen Dowd, and its headline was, May we Mock Barack and Colbert is interviewed. Right. Colbert and Jon Stewart are interviewed and she says, it seems like President Obama would be harder to make fun of than George Bush and Republicans, blah, blah, blah. And are you kidding me? Stewart responds. Then he and Colbert both say at the same time, his dad was a goat herder. First of all, I don't even get the joke. But. But the thing there is, you'll notice they're not making fun of Barack Obama. They're making fun of the idiot conservatives who believe bad things about Barack Obama. They, even when they make fun of Democrats, they don't really make fun of them.

[David Harsanyi]

I actually don't quite get how that works because his father was a goat herder. That was what he grew up doing in Kenya or whatever.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah.

[David Harsanyi]

So I don't get the joke.

[Molly Hemingway]

I guess the joke is that he's. Colbert's still playing that character where he is make mocking the President despite his.

[David Harsanyi]

All right, right, right, right, right.

[Molly Hemingway]

That's his only schtick. His only shtick is the Colbert Report. Right, Yeah, I forgot I was going to say. But you know, I also look through, like these people think they have a moral imperative to speak up because Donald Trump is fascism. And it's the worst time in American history and everything like that. So I looked it up. Johnny Carson became the host of the Tonight show only days before the Cuban Missile Crisis, the closest we've ever come to nuclear war, jfk, mlk, Vietnam, Watergate, Iran, Iranian hostages. He went through five recessions, and yet he could do it without politicizing everything. So anyway, I don't know why I'm going off on this. It's just that I feel that we. I'm not usually one for sentimentality, but I think we have lost common culture and that is a problem. And I guess from my youth, you know, Carson was the thing. Are you watching Carson? Did you see this on Carson? What's his name was on Carson. And you don't really get that anymore. I don't know. Do we have any common culture? Maybe the Super Bowl? I don't. I don't really know. Even like Seinfeld finale or the Sopranos finale maybe or, or things like that would bring people kind of together. I don't even know that there's any kind of show like that brings people together in that way or musical act. I don't know.

[David Harsanyi]

I do think that, yeah, just because of technology and because of all the advances and all the different places you can watch really great television shows, we don't have a common culture. It's also true that you can create your own culture and do be more intentional about it with your own family units and people close to you. As a Lutheran, I certainly have. That's where most of my common culture comes into play. And we, we share jokes, we share stories, we read the same books, we're looking at the same. We're interpreting the. The movies and the TV shows the same way. And I think it's important to do stuff like that too.

[Molly Hemingway]

I'm happy you mentioned books. We. There were events, book events that some Norman Mailer wrote a book or. I don't even like Norman Mailer, so I don't know why I brought him up. But you read it and you read the books that, that were classics. Like everyone or most people had an understanding of certain. A Dickens novel. They understood what it was or I don't know that we have that anymore. No one really reads anymore. Or they. At least they don't read books or novels in that way.

[David Harsanyi]

So this, I don't know why this is making me think of this, but I had to be up in New York for some work and I had been trying to go see the Raphael exhibit at the Metropolitan for the. Ever since it opened in the end of March, I think is when it opened and it wasn't working out. So I decided to make time to go see it. I love Raphael. Blessed to see some of his amazing work in Italy a couple years ago. And as I'm there, you know, first of all, it's very crowded at the Met, which I have never been to. And they tell us to go through the. The exhibit for the fashion which did have a bunch of stuff that had been at the most recent Met Gala, including Gala, including things that I really liked. Like, I liked the Heidi Klum statue dress that a lot of people didn't like. And we're walking through there, and some of the fashion is so beautiful it makes you want to cry. And then some is just really interesting and well done in terms of excellence. But then a lot of it was intentionally grotesque on obese. Grotesque, obese models. And the virtue that is in beauty. You see the modern world rebelling against it and embracing actual ugliness as kind of a statement about what's happening in their hearts and what's happening in their minds. And it's horrifying to observe, particularly when you're in a museum with, in some cases, millennia of beauty behind it. And we go from there, beautiful fashion, also really ugly fashion, to the Raphael exhibit. And it was overwhelming to be in the presence of this. This guy's masterworks, but also the people who influenced him and the complexity of what's being conveyed and how much they are taking art in a dramatic new direction to provide more depth and warmth. The. He did a lot of Madonna and Child, but the. The tenderness of that and then what that means about the Christian understanding of Mary and child and Christ's humanity. It's like you're just. You're just awash in all of this amazing stuff. By the way, I just also want to say he had this really cool prophecy of Ezekiel painting. Tiny one that had Ezekiel, like, in the corner, like on the shore, almost of something, you know, looking up and seeing this. Having this revelation of God with four beings that are interpreted as the gospel writers. And you could just sit there and study it for hours, except it's really crowded and you're trying to let other people go through there. And it is so. I have no idea why I even went off on this, but just the importance of putting beauty in your life and trying to excel at the creation of art that's beautiful is meaningful.

[Molly Hemingway]

Well, some of us don't have the skill to do that, but we can appreciate it. I hear everything you're saying, and unlike a lot of my conservative friends, I do. I do like dissonant art or music. I like tension. I like deconstruction of things. I like brutalist buildings occasionally I like that stuff, but it only like it. And it only exists because we know what real beauty is. It's playing off things that we understand as beauty. But a lot of the art I notice and the stuff you're talking about with the fashion. It seems like some at some point and I'm no expert on art people were convinced that just being crass itself was art or upsetting someone was art just to upset them. I don't think Picasso deconstructed art and became a cubist or whatever because he was trying to. And maybe part of it, but just trying to shock people or upset people. It's easy to shock someone. I think that, you know, if I like music or jazz that's dissonant, it's because I understand what, you know, beautiful music sounds like. And this is inverting it or playing on it or doing whatever. Anyway, I don't even know why I'm talking about this sounds so pretentious. But that we can consider what we just spoke about part of our culture section, I think. Right. Did you have anything else going on culture wise?

[David Harsanyi]

Well, I. We had to leave early on Sunday to get up to New York in time to go to church. Like the flights were such that I'd either I'd miss church here and there if we didn't go really early. And I went, I go to this great Lutheran church right on the edge of like the financial district in Chinatown called True Light. Wonderful church. If anyone is visiting New York, it's a great community. Very old Chinese church, but they've started offering services in English for the. For those of us who need that. And was just walking around New York, went to the Met and then walked back through Central Park. I love Central park and it was crowded. It was insane.

[Molly Hemingway]

Oh yeah.

[David Harsanyi]

But I love that people set apart some area for people to enjoy lush greens and just be out there sunbathing. Saw a lot of people wearing next to nothing because it was hot as an oven in New York and playing Frisbee and baseball and just listening to music and it was just great. So enjoyed that. I just think that was culture.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah. When I was young I loved that energy and scantily clad people. But it's funny, I did see I. I mentioned to before the show I saw a text where someone was showed a picture of Central park and said, you know, taxes and government run spaces are nice or whatever but Central park is actually run by a private conservatory. I don't know what it's called where. Where a private foundation pays private institutions to clean it up, to keep it safe, to keep it going, to keep it green. Before that happened when the government ran central it was dirty and incredibly scary when you know, in the 80s or whatever you had to leave at Sundown or you could, you were probably going to be in trouble. So that's nice to know. I, culture wise, did not do much myself because I've been working on a book. But I do have book recommendations which I do every so often and some people like them. There were two books that I've been reading. I put them on my phone so if, if I have to go shopping with my wife, I read while I walk, you know, that sort of thing. When one is a new book by Adrian Goldsworthy, who's a great ancient historian and I buy every new book on ancient history that I can find. I love it. And this is called Athens and Sparta. It's fantastic. It really goes to the, into the prehistory, which I'm, I'm very always very interested in of the Minoans, you know, the whole, the proto Greek people and stuff like that, but also the, all the rest of it. It's excellent, awesome. The other book I have is called Love Goes to Buildings on Fire. It's five years in New York that changed music forever. Will Hermes it's one of the best books on popular music I've read in a long time. It's not a new book, but it's it, it is. It goes through New York in the late 70s. So you're talking about punk rock and all that, but also salsa, Cuban music, disco, how it, where it emerged from, the underground and all everything else that was going all jazz and free jazz style music and stuff. It's just really a great book if you care about that sort of thing.

[David Harsanyi]

So those both sound great.

[Molly Hemingway]

Yeah, they're good. They're really good. Will Hermes wrote a recent book on Lou Reed which was excellent. If, if I've read so many. It's weird that I think that books about Lou Reed probably sell better than any Lou Reed record ever sold. But he had an interesting life

[David Harsanyi]

and

[Molly Hemingway]

that's all I have. But if you'd like to email the show, please do [e-mail] maybe you have some interesting book recommendations for me. And we'll be back next week. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fresh.