Feminist Survival Project: "Diving into the Shadow—An Introduction"
August 27, 2025 | Hosts: Emily and Amelia Nagoski with Becca and Chris
Podcast summary by [Assistant]
Overview
This episode introduces the concept of “the shadow” from Jungian psychology and explores why and how “shadow work” can be a valuable practice for feminists—and anyone—seeking to understand the parts of themselves that are hidden, denied, or shamed by themselves and society. The discussion is practical, compassionate, and often witty, balancing lived experience, metaphor, and scientific grounding.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Defining the Shadow (00:53–02:05)
- Jungian Concepts: Becca explains that "the shadow" comes from Jung—an archetype representing the parts of ourselves incompatible with our self-image or that we've learned to hide because society punishes or rejects them.
- Quote: “It’s just made up of the parts of yourself that you have been punished or parts that you have witnessed other people being punished for exhibiting. And so you have learned to hide those parts of yourself. You put them in the shadow.” — Amelia (01:50)
- Archetypes: We all have “caretaker,” “leader,” “sage,” etc., and each archetype has its own shadow.
2. Pleasure-Favorable vs. Pleasure-Adverse Emotions (03:00–05:04)
- Panksepp’s Seven Core Emotions: Amelia outlines emotions aligned with pleasure (lust, curiosity, care, etc.) and those society often teaches us not to show: fear, rage, panic/grief.
- Quote: “Rage is the emotion that’s about moving toward to destroy. Fear is about running away... Grief is about feeling isolated and trapped.” — Amelia (13:31)
- Cultural Suppression: Especially for girls and AFAB people, rage and grief are shadowed—leading to an internal “closet” filled with denied emotions, referencing Monica's closet from Friends.
3. Shadow in Daily Life & Relationships (10:25–16:40)
- Mirrors: People who trigger us often reflect those shadow traits.
- Discrimination & the Collective Shadow: Cultural shaming (e.g., of fatness, non-normative behavior) creates a collective shadow, reinforcing exclusion through bullying and reward for conformity.
- Quote: “When you see a person whose body does not conform... that's your shadow saying, you better not let that be you.” — Amelia (11:46)
4. Why Do Shadow Work? (13:10–17:43)
- Indicators for Shadow Work:
- Stuck in fear, rage, grief
- Repetitive patterns, cyclic issues
- Persistent sense that “something is wrong”
- Worrying you’re “the asshole” or have qualities you dislike in others
- Song Moment: Becca jokingly sings, “Am I autistic or am I an asshole?” as a way of expressing self-doubt about shadowed parts (16:05–16:46).
- Quote: “If you recognize in yourself... ‘I feel like I'm alone and I can never be connected.’ First of all, it's not true. You're listening to our voices. You are therefore connected.” — Amelia (14:06)
5. When and When Not to Do Shadow Work (18:07–21:41)
- Not for Beginners: If shadow is trauma-based, seek professional help. It's confronting and can be destabilizing without support.
- External vs. Internal Problems: Sometimes what feels like a “shadow” problem is about environment (job, relationship, housing)—not your psyche. Change the concrete first if possible.
- Quote: “Shadow work will change your internal circumstances... If your problem is made up of external circumstances, change your external circumstances.” — Amelia (20:28)
- Personal Story: Becca shares a detailed story of how leaving a toxic relationship with her husband’s ex-wife improved her life (21:41–25:54), illustrating when the “problem” is outside, not inside.
6. Conflict, Power, and Shadow (26:10–30:16)
- Resource Struggles: Power struggles are often about control over limited resources (money, time).
- Shenpa: Introduces Pema Chödrön's idea of getting “hooked” (shenpa)—being unable to let go of emotional responses, especially when old wounds get pressed (30:57).
7. Practical Shadow Work Techniques (33:26–49:57)
A. Dreamwork (Jungian Analysis) (33:26–41:45)
- How To:
- Before sleep, write a question.
- Upon waking, note the dream in the present tense, give it a movie title/tagline, interpret all elements as “parts of self.”
- Focus on emotional responses, ignore dream dictionaries.
- Nightmares = gifts: “If you can turn toward that scary, bad stuff... you can learn so much if you're willing to.” — Becca (40:34)
B. Parts Work / Internal Family Systems (IFS) (41:49–46:29)
- Methods:
- Identify/analyze internal “parts” (e.g., anxiety as a woman with flaming hair).
- Converse with parts compassionately: ask their role, age, what they protect.
- Recognize protectors/exiles; update them when necessary (e.g., “I’m 48 now, you can trust me”).
- Note: Some frameworks differ for neurodivergent folks (“the self is autistic”).
C. Reflection on People You Hate/Worship (46:44–51:00)
- Mirroring: People you loathe or idolize often mirror the shadow traits you’ve suppressed (e.g., shaming someone for surrendering a pet).
- Quote: “The people you hate are mirrors that only show you the parts of yourself that you like the least.” — Amelia (46:29)
- Worship as Distance: Placing people on a pedestal disconnects you from their (and your own) traits.
D. Feedback and Attention (51:11–54:18)
- Projection: When others shame you for “wanting attention,” they’re projecting their own shadows.
- Quote: “They’re telling you what they want and what they believe they are bad for wanting.” — Amelia (51:46)
- Gendered Socialization: Women are allowed things only if forced upon them; wanting is shadowed.
8. Memorable Closure: Poetry as Synthesis (55:08–58:15)
- Rebecca Dupas’s Poem “How to Slay a Dragon”:
- Narrates a dialogue with an internal critic (her shadow), shaped by cultural judgments around age, marriage, and success.
- Key Message: “Until you let their opinions go, you are the only dragon that needs slaying.”
- Quote: “Your inner thoughts really are that rude? You need to get to therapy and get them people's opinions up off of you, because I know your life is beautiful, but the question is, do you?” — Rebecca Dupas (57:00)
Notable Quotes
- “Your shadow is your Monica’s closet of personality traits, life experiences, emotional responses. And for a lot of people, everything they’ve ever experienced that goes in rage is hidden from themselves in their shadow.” — Amelia (05:08)
- “The thing about shadow work is, it's not an easy entry-level self-help tool. It's for when you want to go into the harder places.” — Amelia (18:07; paraphrased)
- “The people you hate the most are just mirrors, reflecting back to you the things you like the least about yourself.” — Amelia (11:27)
- “If you’re worried you’re an asshole... shadow work.” — Becca & Amelia (16:28–16:46)
- “If your shadow is made from trauma, neglect or abuse, you’re going to start with a professional. You’re going to start with a helping professional.” — Amelia (19:08)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:53 – Defining “the shadow” and Jungian background
- 03:00 – Primary process emotions and pleasure valence
- 05:28 – How shadow forms, especially for girls/AFAB
- 10:25 – Relationships as mirrors; collective shadow
- 13:10 – Why to do shadow work
- 18:07 – Risks and cautions of shadow work
- 21:41 – Personal story: When the “problem” is outside
- 26:10 – Power struggles and resource control
- 30:57 – Emotional “hooks” (shenpa)
- 33:26 – Dreamwork: process and example
- 41:49 – Internal Family Systems and "parts" work
- 46:44 – Reflection: People you hate/worship
- 51:11 – Projection and “just wanting attention”
- 55:08 – Poetry: “How to Slay a Dragon” by Rebecca Dupas
- 58:15 – Episode wrap-up
Tone & Language
Conversational, supportive, peppered with humor and cultural references (Friends, Twilight), candid about struggles. The hosts invite vulnerability, normalize difficult emotions, and resist shame-based narratives.
Final Note
This episode is a deep but accessible introduction to shadow work, offering both frameworks and practical strategies. It urges listeners to compassionately explore what they most want to deny, with the reminder that true flourishing requires integrating all parts of the self: “You are the only dragon that needs slaying.”