Podcast Summary: Feminist Survival Project - Episode: "Gender: It Begins"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Feminist Survival Project
• Hosts/Authors: Emily Nagoski and Amelia Nagoski
• Description: A podcast for feminists who feel overwhelmed and exhausted by everything they need to do, and still worry that they're not doing enough - hosted by Emily and Amelia Nagoski, authors of BURNOUT: the secret to unlocking the stress cycle.
• Episode: Gender: It Begins
• Release Date: December 6, 2024

Introduction

In the episode titled "Gender: It Begins," hosts Emily Nagoski and Amelia Nagoski delve deep into the concept of gender, its origins, and its pervasive impact on both personal identities and broader societal structures. They aim to dismantle the "binary mirage"—a term they coined to describe the illusion of a strict gender binary enforced by societal and autocratic systems.

The Binary Mirage and Autocracy (00:35 – 08:06)

Emily (Speaker A) introduces the concept of the binary mirage, emphasizing its foundational role in sustaining modern autocratic states. She explains that the enforcement of a rigid gender binary is not a new phenomenon but has been integral to fascist regimes since the early 20th century.

"The binary mirage being enforced, being policed on our bodies, is to keep us fueling the engine to make the richest people in the world who are in control of our government now even richer." [08:06]

Amelia (Speaker B) adds historical context by referencing Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany, highlighting how these regimes used gender roles to control and manipulate populations. She underscores that these rigid roles were strategies to maintain power and suppress dissent.

"Enforcement of rigid gender roles was a major highlight of old school fascism in Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany." [02:50]

Historical Context and Fascism (08:12 – 17:00)

Emily elaborates on how fascist leaders like Mussolini and Hitler used misogyny and rigid gender roles to consolidate power. She discusses the specific ways these leaders targeted various groups, including LGBT individuals, to instill fear and maintain control.

"Adolf Hitler absolutely targeted LGBT people in his regime. He burnt books about transgender health." [04:10]

Amelia connects these historical practices to modern-day autocratic states, explaining that the patriarchal and cis-heteropatriarchal norms remain a cornerstone in sustaining these regimes. She emphasizes that regardless of the target group, the underlying motive is to enforce conformity and suppress diversity.

"There is always a rigidly enforced, patriarchal, cis, heteropatriarchal, specifically misogynist culture, laws, norms integral to all of these autocracies." [05:21]

Personal Experiences with Gender Identity (17:00 – 32:18)

The conversation shifts to personal narratives, with both hosts sharing their experiences navigating gender identity within societal constraints.

Amelia discusses her role as a stepparent and how parenting influenced her understanding of gender roles. She reflects on her initial reluctance to embrace parenthood and how she found fulfillment in it despite societal expectations.

"I actively did not want children, and it was a hesitation for me getting together with my husband... But it turned out to be, like, the best possible thing ever to happen to me." [08:26]

Emily shares her struggles with conforming to gender expectations, recounting incidents where her natural expressions clashed with societal norms. She highlights the internal conflict that arises when attempting to fit into the prescribed gender binary.

"I have been misgendered. I've been called Mr. Nagaski." [20:12]

The Science of Gender Development (32:18 – 57:23)

Emily introduces the scientific framework for understanding gender development, referencing the work of Sari van Anders and Dr. Anfasso Sterling. She outlines the three developmental phases of gender identity formation:

1. Intersubjective Project (First 15 Months): The co-creation of an infant's understanding of their body and gender through interactions with caregivers.
2. Transitional Period (15 to 36 Months): A phase of instability where the child begins to form a subjective sense of self, including gender identity.
3. Subjective Self-Stabilization (After 36 Months): The consolidation of gender identity based on cultural and familial influences.

"Gender identity develops as the product of a lifelong three-part... it's a jazz improvisation of three instruments between your nervous system, specifically your body in general, and your environment." [33:16]

Amelia reflects on her personal journey with gender identity, discussing how societal messages often conflict with internal experiences. She recounts a moment in ninth grade where an assignment forced her to question and eventually redefine her gender identity.

"The first time the feedback loop failed me... it wouldn't reward me for conforming to feminine ideals was in the ninth grade." [37:44]

Language, Pronouns, and Identity (57:23 – 66:59)

The hosts explore the significance of language in shaping and affirming gender identity. Emily shares her experiences advocating for the use of the singular "they" in her book Come as You Are, emphasizing the importance of respecting individual identities over rigid grammatical rules.

"I'm going to use the singular they because the people that include matter more than your goddamn stupid fucking rule." [46:14]

Amelia discusses the challenges of adopting new pronouns, especially for those who are rule-followers or have a strong affinity for grammar. She highlights how societal rigidity in language often oppresses non-cisgender identities.

"The rules... felt like a big ask... I was a rules follower. That was a thing that genuinely stopped me from feeling natural and comfortable with." [45:55]

Exercises for Exploring Gender Identity (66:59 – 67:42)

To empower listeners, Emily and Amelia provide practical exercises for individuals to explore and affirm their gender identities:

1. Analyze Gender Rules: Identify and evaluate the gender norms you’ve been taught. Highlight what resonates and what feels oppressive.
2. Write Letters: Compose letters to an ancestor who was denied opportunities due to gender, and to a descendant, outlining how you’re contributing to a more inclusive future.

"Write letters to an imaginary ancestor... or maybe a real ancestor... Tell yourself a story about who wanted an education and couldn't get one because she was a girl." [63:02]

Emily encourages listeners to embrace their unique identities and challenge the imposed gender binaries, fostering a more inclusive and understanding society.

"When we create space for gender diversity, the people who are included when we do that, it doesn't just make the world better for the people who are included in this new language. It makes the world better for everyone." [53:35]

Conclusion

Throughout "Gender: It Begins," Emily and Amelia Nagoski offer a comprehensive exploration of gender identity, its historical enforcement through autocratic means, and the personal struggles many face in reconciling internal identities with societal expectations. They emphasize the importance of dismantling the binary mirage to foster a more inclusive and equitable world. The episode serves as both an educational resource and a call to action for listeners to critically examine and reshape their understanding of gender.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily: "The binary mirage being enforced, being policed on our bodies, is to keep us fueling the engine to make the richest people in the world who are in control of our government now even richer." [08:06]

• Amelia: "Enforcement of rigid gender roles was a major highlight of old school fascism in Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany." [02:50]

• Emily: "I'm going to use the singular they because the people that include matter more than your goddamn stupid fucking rule." [46:14]

• Amelia: "The rules... felt like a big ask... I was a rules follower. That was a thing that genuinely stopped me from feeling natural and comfortable with." [45:55]

This episode of the Feminist Survival Project provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of gender beyond the binary framework, blending historical analysis with personal narratives and practical guidance for fostering gender inclusivity.