Benghazi: Episode 2 - We Will Stay Here

Summary

Fiasco: Benghazi – Episode 2: "We Will Stay Here"

Podcast: Fiasco
Host: Leon Neyfakh (Prologue Projects/Pushkin Industries)
Date: September 8, 2025
Theme: The origins of the 2012 Benghazi attack set within the whirlwind of the Libyan Arab Spring, tracing the country’s descent from revolutionary optimism to chaos, and the pivotal role—and tragic fate—of U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens.

---

Episode Overview

Episode 2, "We Will Stay Here," vividly traces the Libyan side of the Arab Spring, the fall of Muammar Gaddafi, and the difficult transition period that gave rise to post-revolutionary chaos and mounting insecurity in Benghazi. Neyfakh weaves together the perspectives of Libyan revolutionaries, U.S. diplomats and military liaisons to show how global hopes ran headlong into local complexities, setting the tragic stage for the events of September 11, 2012. The episode explores the human stories behind political upheaval and the calculus behind the U.S. Embassy’s decisions—especially the determination of Ambassador Chris Stevens to maintain a diplomatic presence in Benghazi despite growing danger.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Precarious Position of Gaddafi’s Libya (04:25–10:14)

• Khamis Gaddafi’s 2011 U.S. Tour

  • Khamis Gaddafi, the son of Muammar Gaddafi, travels across the U.S. on a business-oriented visit, while trying to conceal his infamous family name due to the regime’s reputation.
    • “He was extremely hesitant to allow himself to be identified as Gaddafi's son. Everywhere we went, he asked that we introduce him as Captain Hamis, not as Captain Gaddafi.” (Brian Linville, 06:48)
  • The West holds a measured hope that younger Gaddafis could nudge the regime toward reform after Muammar’s death.

• Gaddafi Regime’s Military Strategy

  • Khamis commands the elite 32nd Enhanced Brigade, reflecting Gaddafi senior’s policy of privileging loyalist units over a professional army to prevent coups.
    • “He focused on developing specific regime protection forces that he knew were loyal ... manned by family members or tribal members.” (Brian Linville, 09:44)

2. The Arab Spring Reaches Libya (10:14–14:44)

• Spreading Protests
  • Sparked by Tunisia and Egypt, Libyan protests begin in Benghazi after the arrest of human rights lawyer Fathi Terbil, catalyzing broader unrest.
    • “We were hopeless. ... We thought that we never kick out Gaddafi.” (Iman Bugegis, 18:14)
  • The regime’s response is to arrest activists and increase security presence, setting the stage for confrontation.

3. The Benghazi Uprising (18:48–25:26)

• Day of Rage, February 17, 2011
  • Led by women and families of Abu Salim prison victims, protests escalate in Benghazi turning from calls for reform to calls for regime change.
    • “We left our children with my mother and my mother knew and we knew that she might not see us again. ... It’s our responsibility, the older generation, we have to do something.” (Iman Bugegis, 22:17)
  • Protests morph into a popular revolution as crowds chant for Libya.
    • “For seven, eight hours, we were just chanting about Libya. ... It was like a love song, you know, all of a sudden we recognized.” (Iman Bugegis, 23:36)
    • “Declaring love for Libya was revolutionary in and of itself. Colonel Gaddafi had only ever encouraged love for Colonel Gaddafi.” (Leon Nayfak, 24:04)

4. Uprisings, International Response, and U.S. Debates Intervention (25:37–40:23)

• Regime Crackdown and Massacre

  • Violent suppression, including reports of mass killings—Gaddafi vows total war on revolutionaries.
  • Human Rights Watch cites hundreds killed by late February; regime’s intransigence leads U.S. to evacuate embassy staff.

• U.S. and International Intervention

  • Intense diplomatic debate: U.S. reluctance to lead but pressured by allies and humanitarian concerns (“leading from behind”).
    • “Obama agreed to a kind of compromise. The US would participate ... but only as part of a collective effort.” (Leon Nayfak, 38:12)
  • UN authorizes force; Operation Odyssey Dawn begins with French and U.S. airstrikes on Qaddafi’s forces as they approach Benghazi.
    • “We welcomed the international intervention. We didn’t have any other option. It was a survival.” (Iman Bugegis, 37:35)

5. Aftermath: Revolution’s Victory, Chaotic Transition (41:06–48:55)

• Splintered Libya

  • Tripoli remains under Gaddafi, Benghazi becomes the rebel “capital”.
  • Chris Stevens is deployed as U.S. envoy to Benghazi—valued for his curiosity and rapport with Libyans.
    • “We felt that he had the right personality to play this ambiguous liaison role ... because of his background, because of his personality, because of his ability to connect with people.” (Jeff Feltman, 42:07)

• Dangerous Diplomatic Environment

  • The mission initially operates from a hotel, then moves to a villa compound lacking normal diplomatic security standards.
  • Stevens insists on outreach—meeting all stripes of Libyan society, including Islamists.
    • “Chris would push back and insist on meeting with anyone who might have the ability to influence the direction Libya moves in the future.” (Jeff Feltman, 45:22)
  • Feltman is alarmed by the lack of security: “The way you closed that suite at night ... was you put a chain with key lock on it. That horrified me.” (46:12)

6. The Fall of Gaddafi and Aftermath (48:55–52:57)

• Collapse of the Regime
  • Rebels seize Tripoli; Gaddafi is eventually killed after brutal treatment, raising both relief and horror.
    • “There was a sense of horror at how he was killed. ... But there was also a sense of relief that it would probably be harder to have a sustained independence insurrection against the change in Libya.” (Jeff Feltman, 52:04)
  • Libyans hope for a democratic transition—but, as Iman Bugegis notes, “It didn’t happen.” (52:59)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Iman Bugegis on Protest’s Emotional Power
  “For the first time, we were singing for our country and we were saying that we will stay here. Libya. We will stay here.” (25:12)

• Jeff Feltman on Stevens’ Courage
  “Again, he also was sort of fearless. ... He did not inherit an office or a local staff ... He didn’t inherit the old proverbial roller decks from his predecessors.” (42:43)

• Gene Kretz on Western Withdrawal
  “After the regime fell down, most of the Western countries felt that their mission has been accomplished. ... Libya is a stateless society. Any political vacuum can be felt by anybody ... fertile soil ... for extremism to grow.” (56:33)

• Chris Stevens on Risks in Benghazi
  “You can't understand the story of Libya if you don't know what's going on in Benghazi. And Chris knew that if we shut down operations in Benghazi, we would be blind.” (Brian Linville recalling, 59:48)

---

The Gathering Storm (53:17–62:47, 62:57–64:23)

• Post-Gaddafi Instability

  • Militias multiply; security is outsourced in absence of a functioning state.
  • June 6, 2012: Bomb attack on the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi.
    • Stevens insists: “If we gave up on Benghazi, we were giving up on Libya. He didn’t want to do that.” (Brian Linville, 59:48)
  • Security warnings escalate—“That would have been our moment to shut down operations in Benghazi.” (Brian Linville, 61:24)

• First Free Elections

  • July 2012: Elections go more moderately than expected; Iman Bugegis: “For the moderates, it’s a turning point in the history of Libya.” (62:43)
  • Despite optimism, militia power, bombings, and Islamist rallies raise red flags for U.S. security.

• Lead-up to the Attack

  • September 2012: Stevens travels to Benghazi despite security warnings. Jeff Feltman expresses concern and hints at the tragic end.
    • “I do wonder about that 2012 Benghazi trip. ... the horror of what happened to my friend.” (Feltman, 63:32)

---

Notable Timestamps

• Gaddafi’s Son Khamis in America: 04:25–06:17
• Gaddafi Military Strategy: 09:09–10:02
• Day of Rage/Early Protests: 18:48–25:26
• Crackdown and Uprising’s Violence: 25:37–29:09
• Obama’s Address: 28:09–28:49
• UN/NATO Intervention Debate: 31:46–40:23
• Chris Stevens’ Arrival in Benghazi: 43:04–44:32
• Security Fears at U.S. Outpost: 46:12–47:06
• Collapse of the Regime: 48:55–51:46
• After Gaddafi’s Death – Political Vacuum: 56:07–56:53
• Stevens’ 2012 Return and Mounting Dangers: 59:18–61:57
• Free Elections & Final Days Before the Attack: 62:28–63:54

---

Tone & Language

The episode strikes a balance between sweeping historical narrative and intimate, personal recollection. Neyfakh’s narration is clear and evocative, while guest voices—especially Iman Bugegis and Brian Linville—bring urgency and emotional resonance. The episode concludes with a sense of foreboding, underscoring both the optimism and naivety that characterized the revolution and its aftermath.

---

Summary for New Listeners

“We Will Stay Here” is a sweeping, emotionally charged immersion in Libya’s 2011 revolution and its chaotic aftermath, culminating in Chris Stevens’ fateful decision to return to Benghazi. The episode pulls you into the lives of Libyan activists and U.S. diplomats navigating hope and horror, showing how well-meaning idealism, local realities, and international caution collided to shape a tragedy that would soon draw the world's gaze.

---

Next Episode Tease

The next episode will examine Stevens' final visit to Benghazi and the violence and tragedy that ensued, bringing together all the forces and warnings detailed here.

---

[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Iman Bugegis]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster and level up every tool in their arsenal. T Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the Experts@ookla Speedtest. And they're using that network to launch Super Mobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built in security and seamless satellite coverage. That's your business Supercharged. Learn [e-mail] seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the US where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by OOKLA of Speedtest Intelligence data 1H2025.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

You've probably heard me say this connection is one of the biggest keys to happiness and one of my favorite ways to build that Scruffy hospitality. Inviting people over even when things aren't perfect. Because just being together, laughing, chatting, cooking makes you feel good. That's why I love Bosch. Bosch Fridges with vitafresh technology keep ingredients fresher longer so you're always ready to whip up a meal and share a special moment. Fresh foods show you care and it shows the people you love that they matter. Learn more visit Boschomeus.com as a small.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7, so when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free. Share it with your network and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place. Here's how it works. First, post your job. LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Second, either post your job for free or pay to promote it. Promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants, then get qualified candidates. At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is is the quality of the candidates you attract. And with LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're getting the best then Data. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of SMBs using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates and last share with your network. You can let your network know you're hiring. You can even add a hashtag hiringframe to your profile Picture and get two times more qualified candidates. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Gladwell Fake that's LinkedIn.com Gladwell Fake to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

[Leon Nayfak]

Pushkin hey Leon here. Before we get to this episode, I want to let you know that you can binge the entire season of Fiasco Benghazi right now ad free by becoming a Pushkin plus subscriber. Sign up for Pushkin plus on the Fiasco Apple Podcast show page or visit Pushkin FM plus now onto the show. Previously on Fiasco he's been called the world's number one terrorist, A madman who exports terrorism around the world. Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, the first time in almost a quarter century the US has.

[Brian Linville]

Diplomatic ties with Libya.

[Jeff Feltman]

We were sent out there and told just to go find what you can find. Chris Stevens was always willing to open.

[Leon Nayfak]

A conversation with people from pretty scary Islamist backgrounds.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Nobody demonstrated or protested in Gaddafi's Libya, but they didn't really care anymore. They'd lost everything.

[Leon Nayfak]

Hamis Gaddafi arrived in Houston, Texas on January 20, 2011. While in town, Hamis, one of Muammar Gaddafi's sons, was scheduled to visit a Nassau facility and the Port of Houston. There's a photo from the trip in which Camus can be seen smiling with the Chairman of the Houston port Commission and 10 other men in suits. Camus was around 30 at the time and in the photo he looks sharp wearing jeans and shiny weather shoes with a sport coat, a simple black necktie. Camus's visit to Houston was part of a wide ranging tour of the United States sponsored by a large American infrastructure firm with business in Libya. According to Camis schedule, the trip was to include a VIP tour of Universal Studios and visits to Apple, Google and Intel. Whether he ended up doing all that we don't know for sure because it wasn't reported on at the time. The specifics of what Camus actually did in the United States are fuzzy. One of the few people who knows some of the details is Colonel Brian Linville.

[Brian Linville]

Hamis went to the United States, not as a part of an official government function per se. Instead, at that time he was working on his master's degree at a school in Spain and was really interested in the business management aspects of the United States.

[Leon Nayfak]

At the time of Camus's American Safari, Linville was a foreign area officer in the U.S. army. He was living in Tripoli and serving as a diplomatic liaison to the Libyan military.

[Brian Linville]

Foreign area officers like myself refer to ourselves Hyphenated as soldier diplomats, because it really does incorporate the aspects of both, and you can't separate the two.

[Leon Nayfak]

Linville accompanied Camus on the part of his trip that was planned in coordination with the Department of defense. The DoD had agreed to take Camus on tours of the US Air Force Academy, West Point and the National Defense University. It fell to Linville to escort Camus to each of those stops.

[Brian Linville]

I sincerely believe he wanted to go and observe and learn and take back something that might be to the benefit of his country, his military.

[Leon Nayfak]

For most of the trip, Camis tried to keep his identity under wraps.

[Brian Linville]

He was extremely hesitant to allow himself to be identified as Gaddafi's son. Everywhere we went, he asked that we introduce him as Captain Hamis, not as Captain Gaddafi. He wanted to disassociate himself from any stigmas that might be associated with that name. In the United States, officials are saying.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

No to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.

[Leon Nayfak]

Does anybody think that Muammar Gaddafi is not a terrorist?

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

This is a man who simply does not accept a responsibility for Libya's terrorist past.

[Brian Linville]

Camis knew that we'd had a Iraqi past, and his purpose wasn't to make waves or to ruffle any feathers.

[Leon Nayfak]

Camis's American hosts didn't want to ruffle his feathers either. He and his brothers were important to the American government because they were widely understood to be the future of Libya. Whatever happened after Muammar Gaddafi eventually died, his sons would be a huge part of it. In the meantime, it was possible they could serve as a positive influence on their father.

[Brian Linville]

With Hamis, we knew that he had the potential to talk to his dad and explain what he'd seen and and encouraged the Libyan government to make some changes.

[Leon Nayfak]

Not all of Gaddafi's sons inspired this kind of faith or enjoyed equal standing in the eyes of the West.

[Brian Linville]

The Gaddafi boys were a motley assortment.

[Leon Nayfak]

Perhaps the most respected of the Gaddafi brothers was Saif Al Islam, whom you heard about in episode one.

[Brian Linville]

Saif al Islam, as the heir apparent, took on a much larger role than his other brothers and much more political role, whereas the other brothers struggled to find their way.

[Leon Nayfak]

Those other brothers included Matassam, who once paid Beyonce a rumored $2 million to perform at a New Year's Eve concert in St Barts, and Soddy, who was caught using steroids during a stint as a professional soccer player in Italy. By comparison, Camus did not attract much attention. While his brothers made headlines in the New York Times and Gawker, Camus seemed to fly under the radar as he worked towards an MBA in Spain. But back home in Libya, he had another role.

[Brian Linville]

He was the commander of the regime's most important and probably best equipped, best trained regiment, the 32nd Enhanced Brigade.

[Leon Nayfak]

The 32nd Enhanced Brigade was one of the few elite units of the Libyan military, which on the whole, was underfunded and poorly organized. This was at least in part because Colonel Gaddafi liked it that way. As he saw it, if a military coup were ever attempted against him, it would be much easier for his loyalists to defeat a weak army than a strong one.

[Brian Linville]

He focused on developing specific regime protection forces that he knew were loyal and were manned by family members or tribal members that were loyal to him and loyal to the Gaddafi government.

[Leon Nayfak]

And so Kamise led the main one of those.

[Brian Linville]

Yes, that's correct.

[Leon Nayfak]

While Kamise traveled the United States, the Middle east was experiencing a historic convulsion. A little over a month earlier, In December of 2010, a street vendor in Tunisia had doused himself in paint thinner and lit himself on fire. It was a protest against corrupt local authorities who had harassed him and confiscated the scale he used to weigh his produce.

[Brian Linville]

His closest friends, anguished by Mohammed's actions, took to the streets and began a popular uprising.

[Leon Nayfak]

When word spread about what the produce vendor had done and why Tunisians poured into the streets in protest, anger erupted onto the streets.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Today, riot police rock rushing a crowd carrying banners reading yes we can. It was enough to bring down the government and force the nation's president to flee.

[Leon Nayfak]

Before long, the president of Tunisia was forced from power and the revolutionary mood started spreading to Egypt.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Just listen to the chants roaring in downtown Cairo, the hundreds of people walking to the streets. It's unprecedented for people to march to the streets this way as an actual of protests without security trying to Prevent them.

[Leon Nayfak]

On January 25, 2011, protests erupted in Tahrir Square in Cairo as thousands of Egyptians demanded that President Hosni Mubarak step down. It was the beginning of what would come to be known in the west as the Arab Spring.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Of course, a wave of protests has swept through the Arab world and now many are wondering how far that wave will spread and what it means to the rest of the Middle east in including.

[Leon Nayfak]

Mubarak resigned as president of Egypt on February 11th. That same day, Kamis Gaddafi was in Chicago sitting in on a class at Northwestern University taught by Deepak Chopra. The class was called the Soul of Leadership, and at one point, Chopra brought up Mubarak and the Egyptian revolution as Camus took extensive notes. After his visit to Chicago, Camus flew to dc, where Brian Linville took him to the National Defense University. At a roundtable discussion with American government officials, a US ambassador asked Kamise the question that was on everyone's mind.

[Brian Linville]

And he said, you know, I can't pass up this opportunity. I want to ask what are your thoughts on the uprisings that are going on? And I think Kamis shocked the room when he said, I think it's a good thing. I think it's good that the people of the region are finally having an opportunity, opportunity to express themselves in this way. And you could have heard a pin drop in the room.

[Leon Nayfak]

From D.C. camus traveled to New York City, where he toured the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. The next day, he was scheduled to take in a performance of Mamma Mia on Broadway. Brian Linville, who was supposed to meet Kamise in New York, was still at his hotel in Washington when he heard about unsettling reports coming out of Libya.

[Brian Linville]

On the news, there were reports that there'd been some uprisings in eastern Libya around Benghazi.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Well, in a rare show of unrest, hundreds of opponents of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi clashed with police overnight.

[Leon Nayfak]

Linville was getting ready to travel to New York when he got a phone call.

[Brian Linville]

My cell phone rings and it's Hamis's handler. Well, the handler says, hey, Hamises cutting his trip short and he's flying back to Libya to tonight. And that was it. We both knew what was going down. The Arab Spring had arrived in Libya.

[Leon Nayfak]

When you say you knew what was going down, like, you mean you understood what he was going back there to do?

[Brian Linville]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Hamis was going to go back to Libya and play a prominent role in putting down the uprisings. I think we were both airborne at the same time, different planes, and we both probably got back to Tripoli at about the same time. Then ultimately we would go on to be on opposite sides of the battlefield.

[Leon Nayfak]

I'm Leon Naifak from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Brian Linville]

Dramatic showdown between a dictator with a ruthless grip on power and a population demanding freedom.

[Iman Bugegis]

My mother knew she might not see us again.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

It's easy for people to say, you take the consequences if somebody, something bad happened.

[Gene Kretz]

I just said to him, you've just guaranteed your future as an ambassador.

[Jeff Feltman]

He went in, into Benghazi in the height of a war. It was pretty remarkable.

[Leon Nayfak]

Episode 2 We will stay here, in which Libya revolts and a beloved American diplomat makes his mark in Benghazi. We'll be right back.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

In today's super competitive business environment. The edge goes to those who push harder, move faster and level up every tool in their arsenal. T Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network according to the experts at Ookla Speed test. And they're using that network to launch Super Mobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built in security and seamless satellite coverage. With Super Mobile, your performance, security and coverage are supercharged. With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity even in times of high demand. With built in security on the first nationwide 5G advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients. And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite to mobile constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid. That's your business. Supercharged. Learn [e-mail] Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the US where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by OOKLA of Speedtest Intelligence data 1H2025 Imagine that.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

You'Re on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone to land this plane.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this. Until this, pull that, turn this. It's just I can do my eyes closed. I'm Manny.

[Gene Kretz]

I'm Noah, this is Devin.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

And on our new show, no Such Thing, we get to the bottom of questions like like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence.

[Leon Nayfak]

Those who lack expertise lack the expertise.

[Chris Grimes]

They need to recognize that they lack expertise.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the Runway. I'm looking at this thing. See, listen to no such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Grimes]

Barbie's gone blockbuster, OnlyFans is rewriting the rules for creators and ESPN is leading the game in sports media. I'm Chris Grimes, the FT's LA bureau chief, and on September 17th and 18th, I'll be hosting the Financial Times Business of Entertainment Summit in West Hollywood, where CEOs from Mattel, OnlyFans, ESPN and many more will tackle the future of Entertainment. Head to FT.com Entertainment to unlock your exclusive FT discount. You use code ftpodcast to save 20%.

[Leon Nayfak]

There was a joke that went around in early 2011 that summed up how a lot of Libyans felt at the beginning of the Arab Spring. It had to do with Libya's geographic position in North Africa, sandwiched between Egypt and Tunisia.

[Iman Bugegis]

The Tunisians were joking about us. They say that we asked Libyans to sit down so we can see Egyptians and inspire them to start their revolution.

[Leon Nayfak]

This is iman Bugegis. In 2011, she was an orthodontist on the teaching staff at the University of Benghazi. The joke she's referring to here basically meant that no one was expecting the Libyan people to join in when the revolutionary wave started sweeping the Arab world.

[Iman Bugegis]

Because we were hopeless. They knew the atrocity of Gaddafi, and we thought that also. We thought that we never kick out Gaddafi.

[Leon Nayfak]

But sometime in early February, social media posts started circulating calling for mass protests to take place in Libya on Thursday, February 17. It was being called a day of rage. Brian Linville, the American army liaison, says the Gaddafi regime started quietly mobilizing for potential unrest.

[Brian Linville]

It was apparent that the regime was nervous, right? We noticed a definite uptick in security forces in downtown Tripoli, and there was a certain tension in the air because you'd watch on Al Jazeera and every other news agency as these governments started to topple across the region, and everybody was asking, can it happen here?

[Leon Nayfak]

On February 15, the Gaddafi regime arrested a prominent lawyer in Benghazi named Fatih Turbil. It was seemingly a precautionary measure. Turbil was best known as a representative of the families whose loved ones had been killed at Abu Saleem prison in 1996. As you heard in episode one, the Gaddafi regime had been allowing the families to protest every Saturday outside the courthouse in Benghazi. Fatih Turbil, who was helping the families in their fight for restitution and who had also lost relatives in the massacre, often joined them.

[Iman Bugegis]

They were the mothers, the sisters, the wives of political prisoners. And always they were asking, they were making noise and requesting to know the fate of their relatives and what had happened. They wanted the truth. Because at that time, even at that time, there was no clear admission of the regime of what happened exactly.

[Leon Nayfak]

Gaddafi apparently thought that arresting Turbil would silence anyone who might be thinking of revolution. Instead, soon after Turbil's arrest, a group of 15 to 20 women, all family members of Abu Suleim prisoners, gathered outside the building where Turbil was being held.

[Iman Bugegis]

They came in front of the intelligence headquarters and what they were saying was, wake up, wake up, Benghazi. This is the day that you are waiting for. It walked us that sentence, it walked us. After that people started gathering. It was very strange to see women protesting and with all of this courage. So the people and the youth started to come and then they walked till the city center which was few kilometers.

[Leon Nayfak]

Later. That night, Fatih Turbil was allowed to go free. But like the self immolation of a street vendor in Tunisia, Turbil's arrest had sparked something unconfirmed video, it's claimed shows protesters outside a police station in Benghazi on Tuesday. They've come to demonstrate against the arrest of human rights lawyer Fatil Turbil.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

After dark, the protesters regroup outside the city's security directorate.

[Leon Nayfak]

Their chance turn against the government and.

[Gene Kretz]

The 41 year long rule of Mauma Gaddafi.

[Leon Nayfak]

On February 17, the day of rage, Iman Bugegis left her home to join a protest on the steps of the Benghazi courthouse. She was joined by her sister Salwa, another lawyer who had been helping the Abu Saleem families as they headed to the courthouse. The sisters didn't know if they would return home alive.

[Iman Bugegis]

We left our children with my mother and my mother knew and we knew that she might not see us again. We didn't talk about it. We thought that it's something we have to do regardless. So we didn't. What if? What if? No, no, no, nobody thought about that. You know, we have something we have to do. It's our responsibility, the older generation, we have to do something. You know, we have students, we have children who deserve better life, they deserve to live in peace, to have good education.

[Leon Nayfak]

Iman joined her sister in front of the courthouse just before 1pm at first the protesters made relatively modest demands, calling for constitution and social reforms not full on regime change. But as the afternoon wore on, the crowd kept growing and many of the new arrivals were young people who were less restrained in their ambitions. They didn't just want change, they wanted Gaddafi gone. Iman initially tried to discourage them because she was afraid that Gaddafi would simply kill them all if they called for his ouster. But by 4 o' clock, she could tell the tide had turned. A revolution had started and there was no going back.

[Iman Bugegis]

For seven, eight hours, we were just chanting about Libya. It was the first time that we say Libya, Libya, it's our country, we love it. It was like a love song, you know, all of a sudden we recognized.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

How much we love our country.

[Iman Bugegis]

This is our country, we love it. We love you, you know, it was unbelievable.

[Leon Nayfak]

Declaring love for Libya was Revolutionary in and of itself. Colonel Gaddafi had only ever encouraged love for Colonel Gaddafi.

[Iman Bugegis]

He didn't use the name Libya for anything. So for a long time, he replaced Libya with himself. So at that time, we just moved away that curtain and Libya returned to us and we discovered how much we love our country.

[Leon Nayfak]

It was a euphoric moment. Even though the revolution was just starting, the mere act of public dissent felt like a victory. On February 18, a man climbed up a utility pole in Benghazi and hung the old flag of the Kingdom of Libya red, black and green with a star and crescent in the center.

[Iman Bugegis]

We were screaming, you know, it's our flag. It came back to us.

[Leon Nayfak]

Thousands of protesters in Benghazi joined together to sing a protest song called Salfa Nabka Huna. We will stay here.

[Iman Bugegis]

For the first time, we were singing for our country and we were saying that we will stay here. Libya. We will stay here.

[Leon Nayfak]

The unrest wasn't limited to Benghazi. Within a week, protests were occurring throughout Libya. The response from the Gaddafi regime was quick and violent.

[Brian Linville]

Dramatic showdown between a dictator with a ruthless grip on power and a population demanding freedom. Gaddafi is lashing back with force and.

[Leon Nayfak]

Brutality on a scale not yet seen.

[Brian Linville]

In the revolutions that have been sweeping.

[Leon Nayfak]

Across the Arab world.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Reports of casualties have come from all over the country. Sources suggest Libyan security forces shot and killed demonstrators.

[Brian Linville]

With borders closed and telephone and Internet.

[Leon Nayfak]

Jammed, it's impossible to get an accurate.

[Brian Linville]

Picture, but there are reports of massacres by the military.

[Leon Nayfak]

Army attache Brian Linville returned to Tripoli from his trip with Kamis Gaddafi on February 19, just two days after the Day of Rage. By this point, the uprising had reached the Libyan capital as well.

[Brian Linville]

As soon as the sun went down, we could hear outside, like echoing through the streets, this chanting, this low roar, angry people in the streets. Shortly after that, we started hearing gunfire, and that gunfire developed into machine gun fire and we started seeing tracers shoot across the sky. And the chanting got worse and worse throughout the night. It was all night long and looking out across the city and hearing all the gunfire, you knew people were dying. There was no way it could be any other outcome.

[Leon Nayfak]

By February 20th, Human Rights Watch had put the countrywide death toll at 173. Two days later, Colonel Gaddafi appeared on state television from his compound in Tripoli. Gaddafi looked like a ghoul, his skin gray and pallid. Ranting for over an hour. He vowed to never relinquish power and called on his supporters to track down protesters and search for them. Zenga. Zenga. Roughly alley by alley until the country was clean of dirt. Muammar Gaddafi is not leaving without a fight.

[Brian Linville]

He's trying to extinguish protests like these.

[Leon Nayfak]

That keep popping up. The number of people killed ranges anywhere.

[Brian Linville]

From 300 to 1,000, and residents say militiamen are roaming the streets firing their weapons.

[Leon Nayfak]

Some fear that will trigger a civil war where they are begging the world to get involved. The US Is considering sanctions to put pressure on Gaddafi. In the meantime, protesters say they will continue to march in the streets and won't stop until Qaddafi is no longer in power.

[Barack Obama]

Good afternoon, everybody.

[Leon Nayfak]

On February 23rd, President Barack Obama addressed the nation from the White House, with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton standing by his side.

[Barack Obama]

We strongly condemn the use of violence in Libya. This violence must stop. This is not simply a concern concern of the United States. The entire world is watching, and we will coordinate our assistance and accountability measures with the international community.

[Leon Nayfak]

Obama underscored that the uprisings in Libya, Egypt and Tunisia were organic, not the result of foreign interference. But he made it clear that the protesters had America's support.

[Barack Obama]

This change doesn't represent the work of the United States or any foreign power. It represents the aspirations of people who are seeking a better life. And throughout this time of transition, the United States will continue to stand up for freedom, stand up for justice, and stand up for the dignity of all people. Thank you very much.

[Leon Nayfak]

Obama's expression of solidarity with the rebels in their fight against Qaddafi masked his reluctance to allow America to be caught in the crossfire. And with violence in Tripoli escalating, the US Decided to abandon its embassy and get its diplomats out of Libya. The day after Obama's address, the 19 staffers still working out of the embassy in Tripoli, including Brian Linville, were tasked with destroying everything so that sensitive information didn't wind up in the wrong hands. One of Linville's deputies showed him what to do.

[Brian Linville]

He's like, all right, sir, take this sledgehammer, take that computer, hit it there, there, there and there. Put a hole there, put a hole there, put a hole there, and then come back and see me.

[Leon Nayfak]

There was a whole embassy's worth of computers and other equipment that needed destroying.

[Brian Linville]

The full destruction took all night. I think the sun was coming up when I was able to crawl into my office and lie on the floor for a few hours to catch a little bit of sleep.

[Leon Nayfak]

After that, it was time to go. Before leaving, Linville and his deputy brought down the embassy's American flag flag. They folded it and tucked it away safely. Then they lined up their convoy and drove to the airport. It was shortly after 2pm and Friday prayers were letting out at mosques all over the city.

[Brian Linville]

That's when the protest started again. This time, the violence started right in the middle of the afternoon, and our convoy had to pass right through several of those protests as they were occurring. We had gunfire going off within a few feet of our car as they were engaging these protesters.

[Leon Nayfak]

Linville and the embassy staff managed to make it safely to the airport, where they boarded a charter plane to Istanbul. The American diplomatic mission to Libya was coming to an end for now. By mid March, the less than a month after the Libyan revolution began, the US had frozen more than $30 billion in assets belonging to Gaddafi and four of his kids, including Kamis. But the Libyan rebels wanted more from the west than just economic sanctions. They wanted firepower. While Colonel Gaddafi publicly insisted that Al Qaeda was to blame for the unrest and that casualties were at most 200, France, the UK and the Arab League pressured the US to join them in a military intervention. When Secretary of State Clinton arrived in Paris for meetings with the G8, the question of what to do about Libya followed her there.

[Gene Kretz]

The Secretary starts her week in Paris facing international pressure for a Libyan no fly zone. Clinton has been skeptical, saying even with international backing, it's the US that takes all the risks.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

It's easy for people to say, do this, do that, and then they turn and say, okay, us, go. Do it. You take the consequences if something bad happened.

[Leon Nayfak]

It was decided that while she was in, Clinton would meet with a representative of what the Libyan rebels were calling the Transitional National Council, or the tnc. It was basically a temporary de facto government whose leaders were trying to replace Qaddafi. For Secretary Clinton, it's a trip to the great unknown.

[Gene Kretz]

She will meet the Libyan opposition this.

[Leon Nayfak]

Week, although what the US might offer.

[Gene Kretz]

And which rebel leaders she should see.

[Leon Nayfak]

Has the State Department working overtime, because.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

We know that there are some with whom we'd want to be allied and others with whom we would not.

[Gene Kretz]

There was no real appetite on the US part to enter into the Libyan fray at that particular point.

[Leon Nayfak]

This is Gene Kretz, the US Ambassador to Libya at the time of the revolution. As Ambassador, Kretz was responsible for making contact with the leaders of the TNC and sizing them up. As Kretz explains it now, one big fear at the State Department was that the rebel coalition would include too many radical Islamists. That in addition to people like Iman Bugegis who wanted to build a democracy there was also a large constituency of ultra conservative anti American Muslims who wanted to impose strict Sharia law in Libya.

[Gene Kretz]

I had been sent to find out exactly who these people were. Was this a real uprising or. Or was it as Gaddafi and his minions were claiming a jihadist plot that America would regret? My view, after meeting people from the TNC and what they were doing was that it was a legitimate national uprising which probably included jihadist elements by virtue of the fact that they existed.

[Leon Nayfak]

One of Kretz's contacts within the TNC was a man in his late 50s named Mahmoud Jibril, the Foreign minister for the transitional government. Jabril had a PhD in Political Science from the University of Pittsburgh and he spoke English fluently. Here he is speaking in a 2012 documentary.

[Gene Kretz]

We were racing with time with my colleagues all over the place. And the meeting with Madam Clinton was very crucial.

[Leon Nayfak]

Ambassador Kretz arranged a meeting between Jabril, Clinton and one of his colleagues from the State Department who had just been named special envoy to the transitional government. His name was Christopher Stevens. Clinton, Kretz and Stevens sat down with Jabrille in a hotel suite overlooking the Tuileries Garden. In her memoir, Hard Choices, Clinton writes that she could see the Eiffel Tower from her window. As Jabril made the argument for American intervention in Libya, he laid out the.

[Gene Kretz]

Case for why America, leader of the world's democracies, should look on this situation and see that there were elements that very much coincided with what America's interests in the world were and what American values were.

[Leon Nayfak]

The meeting lasted just 45 minutes, but by the end, Clinton seemed convinced that Jibril and his fellow rebels were trustworthy and sincere.

[Gene Kretz]

I think the meeting was one of the first times that the US in the guise of the Secretary, was able to meet and put a face to the revolution and to see that these were not wild eyed jihadists and that in fact they were really people committed to setting up a democratic country. The meeting with Jibril then was the one that I think that at least helped convince the Secretary that our participation in this reaction against Gaddafi was justifiable. And then the President made the decision a few days later, I believe.

[Leon Nayfak]

On March 15, Obama called his national security team together for a meeting in the White House situation room. Clinton, who was conferencing in from Paris, told the President she supported intervention, but Obama wasn't yet convinced.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

American forces are already stretched thin with the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we get preoccupied and bogged down in Afghanistan, Iraq and now Libya, we're not going to have much left.

[Leon Nayfak]

Obama was hesitant to put American troops on the ground in yet another faraway country.

[Brian Linville]

It's called war fatigue Afghanistan.

[Leon Nayfak]

That war is very unpopular.

[Jeff Feltman]

The American people hate being stuck in.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Another third world country. Over there.

[Jeff Feltman]

We're stuck in two of them now.

[Leon Nayfak]

It's easy to blow the trumpets.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

It's hard to end the war.

[Leon Nayfak]

But Iraq and Afghanistan were not the only reference points on people's minds.

[Brian Linville]

You can't have another Sudan.

[Leon Nayfak]

You can't have another Rwanda. You could have another Rwandan genocide on your hands in Libya if you don't do something. Susan Rice, Obama's ambassador to the United nations, had worked in the Clinton administration during the Rwanda crisis, and she was adamant that in the case of Libya, US intervention was necessary to prevent a slaughter.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Let's remember President Clinton, in reflecting on his presidency, said his greatest regret was not acting sooner in Rwanda.

[Leon Nayfak]

At this point, Khamis Gaddafi's 32nd Brigade had arrived at Misrata, the third largest city in Libya and the only rebel stronghold in the western part of the country. Rebel commanders in Misrata pleaded for NATO's help as Kamis troops encircled the city. Meanwhile, in the east, other brigades were marching towards Benghazi. It was clear they outnumbered and outgunned the rebels, most of whom were ordinary citizens with little to no military training. Iman Bugegis Again, we could see the.

[Iman Bugegis]

Smoke of Garethi's convoy coming. It was obvious that something is coming. Death is coming. We welcomed the international intervention. We didn't have any other option. It was a survival.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Tonight, things are at a turning point and Colonel Gaddafi could face international intervention. Earlier today, he took to the radio to warn warn the opposition in Benghazi of a looming offensive. We are coming, he said. We are looking for the traitors and shall have no mercy nor compassion.

[Leon Nayfak]

With Gaddafi's forces approaching Benghazi, the US needed to make a decision before it was too late. And so Obama agreed to a kind of compromise. The US would participate in the intervention, but but only as part of a collective effort that would be led by other countries, namely the UK and France. Later, one of Obama's advisors would describe the arrangement as leading from behind. The point was that the US would not be responsible for whatever came next in Libya. It would have to be someone else's problem. With that, Hillary Clinton and Susan Rice began coordinating with NATO and the UN to authorize military action. On March 17, just three days after Clinton's meeting with Mahmoud Jibril in Paris, the UN passed a resolution allowing for all Necessary measures to protect civilians in Libya.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

This evening the UN Security Council voted in favor of a resolution that would take all measures necessary to protect civilians. For the residents of Benghazi, this military intervention is coming in the nick of time because Gaddafi's forces are already closing in on the city. The people of eastern Libya will be hoping it's not too late.

[Leon Nayfak]

On March 19, French jets led the way bombing Gaddafi forces outside Benghazi. The move effectively saved the revolution and likely prevented significant bloodshed.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

The French have gone in with jets and attacked Muammar Qaddafi's military vehicles.

[Leon Nayfak]

American missile strikes followed the beginning of what the US named Operation Odyssey Dawn.

[Barack Obama]

Today I authorize the Armed forces of the United States to begin a limited military action in Libya in support of an international effort to protect Libyan civilians.

[Leon Nayfak]

In his televised address announcing the airstrikes against Qaddafi, Obama emphasized that the United States was not acting alone.

[Barack Obama]

Make no mistake, today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people and we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world. Thank you very much.

[Leon Nayfak]

Did you feel relieved when you heard that the intervention had happened? Did it lift the pressure?

[Iman Bugegis]

Yes, yes, all of us, you know he would have destroyed Benghazi. He didn't want Benghazi anymore.

[Leon Nayfak]

What did you feel when you heard that it was done, that the convoy was destroyed?

[Iman Bugegis]

Big relief. We went after that and we saw the convoy destroyed, burned tanks, burned military cars, a lot. It was very long convoy, but also we knew many people who died. So it was very, very sad. The situation.

[Leon Nayfak]

Libya was now essentially split in two, with Tripoli in the west under Gaddafi's control and Benghazi in the east serving as the rebels base of operations. But with American diplomats out of the country and Obama's strict no boots on the ground policy, intelligence on what the rebels were actually doing was hard to come by. Ambassador Kretz and the team from Tripoli were now working out of a makeshift office in D.C. the consensus was that someone from the American mission needed to go to Benghazi.

[Gene Kretz]

Some of the other European nations had gone back into Benghazi with representation. There was a strong sense in Washington that we had to be there as well.

[Leon Nayfak]

Pretz immediately thought of his colleague Chris Stevens, the man who had joined him and Secretary Clinton for the meeting with Jibril in Paris and who had served in Libya for two years during the brief and ill fated reconciliation with Gaddafi. Kretz suggested Stevens to his State Department colleague Jeff Feltman, the Assistant Secretary in charge of the Middle East. Here is Feltman.

[Jeff Feltman]

We felt that he had the right personality to play this ambiguous liaison role in Benghazi that was sort of undefined because of his background, because of his personality, because of his ability to connect with people.

[Leon Nayfak]

Chris Stevens was about to turn 51. A native of California, he had blonde hair, a tan and a big bright smile. As you heard in episode one, Stevens had helped build the US Embassy in Tripoli that had just been abandoned. Now he was up for another unusual position in Libya, one that his superiors at the State Department thought he was particularly well suited to. Jeff Feltman.

[Jeff Feltman]

Again, he also was sort of fearless. It's not usual to send in a diplomat and basically say, make your way. He did not inherit an office or a local staff that could help guide him. He didn't inherit the old proverbial roller decks from his predecessors.

[Leon Nayfak]

Chris Stevens arrived in Benghazi on April 5, 2011, aboard a Greek cargo ship.

[Jeff Feltman]

He went in by water into Benghazi in the height of a war. It was pretty remarkable at first.

[Leon Nayfak]

Stephen set up his operation in a suite at the Tibesti Hotel, a 15 story building in the city center.

[Jeff Feltman]

When Chris went to Benghazi, there was essentially nothing. He and his immediate staff were essentially inventing a diplomatic facility out of whole cloth. It was a high risk venture, but one that was extremely rewarding for Chris and obviously beneficial for us as we're trying to understand more about what's happening in the most opaque country in the Arab world.

[Leon Nayfak]

Even though the US was now supporting the rebels in their fight against Gaddafi, the State Department still had very little knowledge about who they were, what they believed and what their goals were for Libya. The TNC desperately wanted the United States to recognize them as Libya's legitimate government. But the Obama administration was guarded. They wanted more information.

[Jeff Feltman]

Chris's responsibilities were to figure out who were these guys, what did they stand for? If Gaddafi would leave, what would they put in his place? Was there a chance for them to have a unified government? What was happening with the sort of very nascent Islamist movements that were coming up? These were questions we did not know the answers for.

[Leon Nayfak]

It's worth reiterating that the administration's big fear was that radical anti American Islamists would take over the Libyan revolution. The leaders of the TNC said they were building a democracy, but did they have the power and popular support to follow through? In a country where the population was more than 90% Muslim, religion would inevitably influence the workings of the government. But different people had different ideas about the degree to which Islam should dictate the law of the land. The US feared inadvertently aiding extremists who had no intention of establishing democracy once Gaddafi fell. It was against this backdrop that Chris Stevens launched himself into the work of diplomacy in Benghazi. He was known for taking jogs around town and chatting up regular citizens on the street, no matter what their politics were.

[Jeff Feltman]

You know, there were people who said, chris, you shouldn't meet with Person X. Person X is an Islamist. You're giving this Islamist status by meeting with this Islamist. Don't do it. Chris would push back and insist on meeting with anyone who might have the ability to influence the direction Libya moves in the future. So I don't think he was naive, but he did try to embrace a very wide spectrum of Libyan contacts.

[Leon Nayfak]

The people of Benghazi embraced Stevens as well. When the US killed Osama bin Laden in May of 2011, locals stopped Stevens in the street to congratulate him and said they hoped Gaddafi would be next. Still, when Jeff Feltman from the State Department visited Benghazi that spring, he was shaken by the precarious conditions in which Stevens and his team were working.

[Jeff Feltman]

I was very worried about his security. The doors to his suite were plate glass, so you had these two big glass doors with handles. And the way you closed that suite at night when Chris and his team would go to bed was you put a chain with key lock on it. That horrified me.

[Leon Nayfak]

Near the end of the summer, the State Department leased a compound of villas in Benghazi and moved the American mission out of the Tibesti Hotel. Guards were hired and vehicle screenings were arranged in an effort to secure the property. But the Americans were not allowed to do much to physically fortify it. And because it was a temporary facility, not an official embassy or consulate, it didn't have to meet the State Department's typical security standards. Chris Stevens didn't want to stay holed up in a bunker anyway. He wanted to be out meeting people where they lived. Again, former Libya Ambassador Gene Kretz.

[Gene Kretz]

We both believed that we needed some flexibility in terms of the way we were allowed to operate. We were not cowboys, believe me, but we wanted to do our job. And we thought that we had the ground knowledge to determine what was an acceptable risk for us and what was not. And so we designed a program to allow us to meet people that we needed to meet. And I think Chris certainly shared that view and certainly practiced it to the extent that he could while he was in Benghazi.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Hello.

[Leon Nayfak]

Good afternoon, I'm Chris Stevens. I got in from Benghazi a couple of days ago. On August 2, 2011, Stevens was briefly back in the US to provide an update on what he had learned about the TNC during his time in Benghazi. By then, it had been almost six months since the revolution started. But as Stevens told reporters, there was no indication that Qaddafi was going to step down or leave Tripoli.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

What is your sense of how much longer the sort of conflict is likely to go on before Qaddafi leaves? I mean, three months, six months, a year?

[Leon Nayfak]

I wouldn't want to put a date on it, but all I can say is that the world has lined up against him and his base is shrinking and the TNC forces are closing in around him and so are sanctions and other things. So I think everybody agrees it's a matter of time. Later that month, the rebels took Tripoli and Gaddafi had no choice but to flee.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi's defenses are collapsing and his regime appears to be crumbling fast. According to a rebel leader, the unit in charge of protecting Gaddafi and Tripoli has surrendered and joined the revolt, allowing the opposition force to move into Tripoli.

[Leon Nayfak]

In Gaddafi's absence, rebels breached his compound, set fire to his tent and carried off souvenirs, including thick gold jewelry and a green golf cart. They also raided Gaddafi's stash of weapons. The next day, rebels busted the locks of the blue cast iron doors of the Abu Saleem prison in Tripoli and set the remaining inmates free. The rebels went cell to cell, breaking the locks with hammers until the prison was an empty shell. After their release, more than 100 former prisoners found their way back home to Benghazi. Just six months earlier, Colonel Gaddafi's son Kamis had been in Chicago, sitting in on lectures by Deepak Chopra, now the.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Senior rebel commander, telling cnn, Gaddafi's son Kamas is dead. The military commander is said to have died during a battle in northwest Libya.

[Leon Nayfak]

A man claiming to be one of Kamis bodyguards told reporters that Gaddafi's son had been killed in a NATO airstrike. Brian Linville, who had accompanied Kamis during his US visit, wasn't sure how to feel about the news.

[Brian Linville]

Sadness isn't the right term, but maybe disappointment, because when I knew him up to that point of early February, his unit had not committed atrocities. He didn't have blood on his hands. I had to contrast that in my mind that, you know, at this one moment in February, it seemed so promising. And then something was lost. Not just an opportunity, but something was lost.

[Leon Nayfak]

That fall, Hillary Clinton visited Tripoli to make a show of support for the tnc.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

This is Libya's moment. This is Libya's victory, and the future belongs to you.

[Leon Nayfak]

During her trip, Clinton toured the new US Embassy. In her memoir, she wrote that she heard gunshots in the distance and wondered if it was fighting or celebration. The embassy staff seemed quite used to it by now, she wrote. Two days later, on October 20, Clinton was in Kabul, Afghanistan, and during a break from a taped interview, she was handed a BlackBerry.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Wow. Huh?

[Leon Nayfak]

Unconfirmed.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Unconfirmed, yeah. Unconfirmed reports about Gaddafi being captured. Unconfirmed, yeah. We've had too many. We've, we've had a bunch of those before. We've had, you know, have had him captured a couple of times.

[Leon Nayfak]

Then it became official. Muammar Gaddafi was dead.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Yes, we came, we saw, he died. Did it have anything to do with your visit? I'm sure it did.

[Leon Nayfak]

Almost immediately, cell phone footage emerged of Gaddafi being beaten by his captors. Word spread that he had been tortured and sodomized and shot in the head. Afterwards, his body was taken to a meat locker where Libyans took photos of his corpse. Again, the State Department's Jeff Feltman.

[Jeff Feltman]

I mean, there was a sense of horror at how he was killed. These were not the sorts of methods that the TNC had said that they would be using to bring to accountability members of the former regime. But there was also a sense of relief that it would probably be harder to have a sustained independence insurrection against the change in Libya.

[Leon Nayfak]

Iman Bugegis, the Libyan orthodontist turned revolutionary, had mixed emotions too.

[Iman Bugegis]

It was a relief that, okay, that's it, our country is liberated. And it was a heavy price. But what happened after that, to him, it was sad, but what he was doing and what he was implanting of hate and revenge, and it happened to him, there was no other way. You know, he forced that. He didn't want to surrender, he didn't want to leave the country.

[Leon Nayfak]

What did you think would happen next?

[Iman Bugegis]

We were hoping that with the elections, then a democratic government will come and things will change and for the better. It didn't happen.

[Leon Nayfak]

We'll be right back.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network according to the experts at Ookla Speed test. And they're using that network to launch Super Mobile. The first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built in security and seamless satellite coverage with Super Mobile, your performance, security and coverage are supercharged. With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity even in times of high demand. With built in security on the first nationwide 5G advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team and your clients. And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite to mobile constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid. That's your business. Supercharged. Learn [e-mail] seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the US where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ookla of Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this.

[Leon Nayfak]

Attention passengers.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

The pilot is having an emergency and.

[Leon Nayfak]

We need someone, anyone to land this plane.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this until this, pull that, turn this. It's just I can do my eyes closed. I'm Manny.

[Leon Nayfak]

I'm Noah, this is Devin, and on.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

Our new show, no Such Thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence.

[Leon Nayfak]

Those who lack expertise lack the expertise.

[Chris Grimes]

They need to recognize that they lack expertise.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run, right? I'm looking at this thing.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

See?

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Grimes]

Barbie's gone blockbuster, OnlyFans is rewriting the rules for creators, and ESPN is leading the game in sports media. I'm Chris Grimes, the FT's LA bureau chief, and on September 17th and 18th, I'll be hosting the Financial Times Business of Entertainment Summit in West Hollywood, where CEOs from, Mattel, OnlyFans, ESPN and many more will tackle the future of Entertainment. Head to FT.com Entertainment to unlock your exclusive FT discount. Use code FTPodcast to save 20%.

[Leon Nayfak]

Six months after the uprising against Muammar Gaddafi, Libya is flooded with weapons and faces a potential power vacuum. After Gaddafi's death, political situation in Libya was delicate. The former prime minister who led the fight against the colonel believes the country is now at risk of being taken over by extremists. Mahmoud Jibril also says it's the result of NATO abandoning Libya after the former regime was toppled.

[Gene Kretz]

After the regime fell down, most of the Western countries felt that their mission has been accomplished. They neglect the fact that Libya is a stateless society. Any political vacuum can be felt by anybody, you know, and it's a fertile soil, you know, for extremism to grow.

[Leon Nayfak]

That was the state of play Chris Stevens inherited in May of 2012 when he was confirmed as the new U.S. ambassador to post Gaddafi Libya. My name is Chris Stevens and I'm the new U.S. ambassador to Libya. In a video posted to the embassy's YouTube account, Stevens expressed hope that the US could help Libya achieve democracy. Standing on a roof with a view of Washington D.C. behind him, he invited Libyans to imagine a better future. Over my shoulder here you can see the U.S. capitol building. In that building, 535 elected representatives from every corner of America come together to.

[Gene Kretz]

Debate the issues of the.

[Leon Nayfak]

They are men and women from every religious, ethnic and family background. I look forward to watching Libya develop equally strong institutions of government. Libyans were anxious to get their new government going too. And elections for the new General National Congress were set for July 7, 2012. As the date approached, some Americans as well as liberal minded Libyans feared that strict ultra conservative Islamists would take a majority in the new government. There was something else on their minds. Militias. For a year and a half, militia groups had fought together to defeat Gadhafi. Now that their common enemy was gone, they were almost like gangs, each one vying to control their turf. Hospitals, airports, even oil fields fell under the control of various militias. And because the new leadership of Libya needed time to rebuild a formal military and police force, the TNC essentially put the militias in charge of security, even putting them on the public payroll. Here again is former Assistant Secretary of State Jeff Feltman.

[Jeff Feltman]

We knew that we did not know enough about the militias. We still thought that with the proper support that the civilian leadership would be able to knit this back together.

[Leon Nayfak]

The problem was the militias all had different interests, different loyalties, different ideologies. And thanks to the tnc, they were all flush with money as well as guns that had been taken from Gaddafi's armories for foreigners. It added up to a simmering sense of danger in Benghazi. And on June 6, 2012, that danger revealed itself when the American diplomatic compound was targeted with a homemade bomb.

[Brian Linville]

One evening, somebody placed a bomb outside an exterior wall of the compound and and blew probably a man sized hole in it.

[Leon Nayfak]

Colonel Brian Linville again.

[Brian Linville]

And of course we took this very seriously and the embassy team huddled to talk about it.

[Leon Nayfak]

Ambassador Stevens, now based in Tripoli, gathered his team for an emergency meeting to discuss the attack. Stevens made it clear he felt strongly that the US Needed people in Benghazi despite the apparent risks.

[Brian Linville]

You can't understand the story of Libya if you don't know what's going on in Benghazi. And Chris knew that if we shut down operations in Benghazi, we would be blind. We missed the commencement of the Libyan revolution because we didn't have a presence in Benghazi. We didn't know what was going on there. And I know Chris was loathe to give that up because it would have crippled our ability to understand the Libyan story. If we gave up on Benghazi, we were giving up on Libya. He didn't want to do that.

[Leon Nayfak]

Not everyone at the embassy agreed with Stevens.

[Brian Linville]

There were voices of dissent saying that this is too much. We need to get out. But the prevailing voice was that we would try to stick it out and as best we could address the security situation. It wasn't like we did nothing.

[Leon Nayfak]

Stevens wanted to keep the Benghazi mission open despite the security risks. He knew that in addition to the homemade bomb, there had been an attack on a UN official's convoy and another on a Red Cross building. In fact, Stevens had flagged the increase in violence in his communications with D.C. stevens also took steps to fortify the Benghazi compound. He deployed security officers from Tripoli to figure out ways the mission could be better protected. And he talked with Libyan authorities about increasing the presence of the militia that had been hired to help guard the compound. They were called the February 17th Martyrs Brigade, named after the day the Libyan revolution started.

[Brian Linville]

He didn't ignore the threat by any stretch of the imagination, but he tried to mitigate it instead of avoiding it altogether and pulling out. You know, in retrospect, that would have been our moment to shut down operations in Benghazi.

[Leon Nayfak]

The warning signs kept coming. Shortly after the bomb attack at the compound, a parade of trucks drove through Benghazi flying black flags. It was a rally of at least 15 different militia groups demanding that the new Libyan government be based on Sharia law.

[Brian Linville]

What are you marching for today?

[Barack Obama]

What are you protesting?

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

We need Sharia law to kill the.

[Leon Nayfak]

Kuffar, to kill the infidels.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

Yes.

[Jeff Feltman]

Yes.

[Leon Nayfak]

After attacking. One month after that Islamist rally, Libyans voted in their country's first free election since Gaddafi's death. The State Department considered it a success, with 62% of the eligible population turning out to vote and the vast majority of polling places reporting no incidents of violence. This is what all of the fighting.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

In Libya was about last year.

[Gene Kretz]

Not just the removal of Gaddafi, but.

[Leon Nayfak]

The chance to choose a democratic, democratically elected government. Despite predictions of an Islamist victory, Mahmoud Jibril's party dramatically outperformed more conservative parties in what was considered a landslide.

[Iman Bugegis]

For the moderates, it's a turning point in the history of Libya.

[Narrator/Host (Leon Nayfak)]

Most people in Libya are savoring their new democratic rights. The many challenges ahead about what exactly they're going to do with them can wait until after the election party it.

[Leon Nayfak]

Was about two months later in September of 2012, that Ambassador Chris Stevens decided to leave the US embassy in Tripoli and visit Benghazi. Stevens would arrive on Monday, September 10, and he would have several days of meetings with the Benghazi City Council and various business leaders. Stevens planned the trip despite warnings from the head Diplomatic Security agent in Tripoli, who was concerned about the escalating violence and tension in Benghazi. Friends who were in touch with Stevens shortly before his trip remember him being excited to return to a place he loved.

[Jeff Feltman]

Chris comes across as this really nice, embracing California surfer dude and I think people can underestimate his intelligence because of just the Persona he had. I have to say I don't want to play blame the victim here, but I do Wonder about that 2012 Benghazi trip. I mean, of course we would all think about it given and the horror of what happened to my friend.

[Leon Nayfak]

Chris Stevens did take precautions, making no advance announcement of the trip and traveling with a larger than usual group of Diplomatic Security agents. He was supposed to be back in Tripoli by Friday. On the next episode of Fiasco, Chris Stevens trip to Benghazi is halted by violence and tragedy.

[Brian Linville]

Scott Wickham does this several times, you know, to search for his colleagues, and I remember him saying that if he.

[Leon Nayfak]

Went in one more time, he would die. For a list of books, articles and documentaries we used in our research, follow the link in our show notes. Fiasco is a production of prologue projects and it's distributed by Pushkin Industries. The show is produced by Andrew Parsons, Ula Culpa, Sam Lee, and me, Leon Nayfak, with editorial support from Sam, Graham Felson and Madeline Kaplan. Our researcher was Francis Carr. Our score was composed by Dan English, Joe Valli, and Noah Hecht. Additional music by Nick Sylvester and Joel St. Julian. Our theme song is by Spatial Relationship Audio mix by Rob Byers, Michael Rayfiel, and Johnny Vince Evans. Our artwork is by teddy blanks at ChipsNY. Copyright counsel provided by Peter Yassi at Yassi Butler PLLC thanks to archive.org, nifeen Alba, Peter Bartu, E.A. berwela, Ben Fishman, Baker Habib, Anna Linville, Ian Martin, Ismail Swaya, Murad, Idris, and Frederick Werhe. Special thanks to Luminary and thank you for listening.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

Why are TSA rules so confusing?

[Leon Nayfak]

You got a hoodie on. Take it all.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

I'm Manny. I'm Noah, this is Devin and we're best friends and journalists with with a new podcast called no Such Thing where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming at me? I can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same, go off on me.

[Leon Nayfak]

I deserve it, you know. Lock him up.

[No Such Thing Podcast Hosts (Manny, Noah, Devin)]

Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeff Feltman]

No Such Thing.

[Chris Grimes]

Barbie's gone blockbuster, only Fans is rewriting the rules for creators, and ESPN is leading the game in sports media. I'm Chris Grimes, the FT's LA bureau chief, and on September 17th and 18th I'll be hosting the Financial Times Business of Entertainment Summit in West Hollywood, where CEOs from, Mattel, OnlyFans, ESPN and many more will tackle the future of Entertainment. Head to FT.com Entertainment to unlock your exclusive FT discount. Use code ftpodcast to save 20%.

[Iman Bugegis]

This is an iHeart podcast.