Fiasco: Benghazi, Episode 6 – Radicals (Oct 6, 2025)

Host: Leon Neyfakh
Podcast by: Pushkin Industries

Episode Overview

The season finale of Fiasco’s Benghazi series navigates the latter stages and aftermath of the 2012 Benghazi attack, focusing on two parallel quests for "truth": the criminal investigation to bring a perpetrator to justice, and the political investigation that ultimately fueled one of modern America's most consequential and divisive political scandals. Neyfakh dissects how Benghazi evolved beyond foreign policy debate into a symbol of hyper-partisan warfare, shaping America's political landscape, public trust, and foreign policy, while having profound and lingering effects on Libya itself.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Split Realities of Benghazi (03:30)

• Unifying Question: What did critics actually believe Clinton and Obama did wrong—beyond accusations?
  • Neyfakh explores how, at its core, Benghazi became a "repudiation of a worldview," rather than just a foreign policy failure.
  • The debate drifted into symbolic, esoteric territory, ultimately reflecting entrenched perceptions rather than seeking concrete accountability.

“At a basic level, many Republicans saw the attack as a repudiation of a worldview they had long despised... Benghazi was proof that Obama, Clinton and their fellow liberals were fundamentally wrong about America's place in the world.” — Leon Neyfakh (04:40)

2. The Parallel Investigations (07:30)

A. The Criminal Case

• Julianne Himelstein, Assistant U.S. Attorney, and Mike Clark, FBI Counterterrorism Agent, led the case as a terrorism and murder investigation.
• Surveillance footage analysis and witness testimony were core; witnesses risked—and sometimes lost—their lives to assist the FBI.
• Ahmed Abu Khattala: Identified as chief suspect and eventually lured and captured through a high-risk FBI operation.
  • “People in Libya were scared of Abu Khattala… Some of them paid the ultimate sacrifice.” — Mike Clark (15:10)
• Khattala’s suspicion of the U.S. presence (“a spy base”) mirrored some American conspiracy theories.

B. The Political Case

• Multiple Congressional committees (Oversight, Armed Services, Foreign Affairs) launched overlapping probes, each with partisan divides.
• Polls cemented Benghazi as a “Rorschach test” in U.S. politics, with partisan perspectives driving engagement more than facts.

“There’s an obsession with Benghazi, Hillary Clinton, that some of my Republican colleagues have in the House.” — Democratic lawmaker (21:55)

3. The Rise of the Select Committee (24:45)

• The Tea Party pushed for a more aggressive “select committee” — echoing the scale of Watergate or Iran-Contra.

• John Boehner, House Speaker, faced pressure between party radicals demanding a Benghazi inquisition and concerns over Congressional integrity.

  • “They’re looking for the House of Representatives to do what traditionally a partisan opposition research firm would do.” — Tim Alberta (28:45)

• Fox News and conservative media amplified pressure, making select committee formation inevitable.

• Boehner attempted to broker political peace with Fox News by offering committee access in exchange for less antagonism—unsuccessfully, revealing the depth of media-fueled conspiracy thinking.

“Ailes [Fox News] hears the word Benghazi and basically spirals... talking about how the Obama administration is spying on him…” — Leon Neyfakh (36:05)

4. The Gowdy Committee: Investigative Drift and the Birth of "Emailgate" (39:15)

• Trey Gowdy appointed as committee chairman to keep up appearances of professionalism while placating party hardliners.
  • The committee’s actual early progress was slow (“glacial pace”), prompting staffers to mock the lack of urgency with commemorative pins and wine glasses (46:20).
• March 2015: The Clinton private email story breaks due to a Select Committee information request, transforming the committee’s focus and public narrative.
  • Clinton email scandal becomes the center, eclipsing original Benghazi fact-finding.
  • “This becomes a self-licking ice cream cone… the Clintons are hiding things, and so it became a self-fulfilling scandal.” — Brad Podliska, Republican staffer (53:00)

5. Political Fallout and the Clinton Testimony (56:35)

• Committee pace deliberately slowed to stretch into the 2016 election year.

• Kevin McCarthy’s infamous admission on Fox News:

  “Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee. ... Her numbers are dropping.” (01:01:35)

• McCarthy’s slip (“Kinsley gaffe”) acknowledged the committee’s political motives, costing him his shot at the Speakership.

• Clinton’s 11-hour testimony (Oct 2015) became high-stakes political theater, with Democrats defending and Republicans attacking.

  • Clinton remains composed, countering accusations:

    “I would imagine I’ve thought more about what happened than all of you put together. ...I have been racking my brain about what more could have been done.” — Hillary Clinton (01:09:05)

• The hearing produced no new evidence; Clinton’s poll numbers rose post-testimony, with some Republicans admitting the committee had failed to deliver.

6. Endgame: No Smoking Gun, Lasting Consequences (01:16:20)

• The Select Committee’s final report found no wrongdoing by Clinton, highlighting bureaucratic failings instead.

• Conservative hardliners turned on Gowdy for not “proving” their case; Donald Trump labeled him a “Benghazi loser.”

• Benghazi and "Emailgate" became rallying cries for Trump’s campaign, fueling wider narratives of government corruption.

• Meanwhile, the criminal investigation concluded with Abu Khattala’s conviction for terrorism, but most committee members didn’t attend his trial—a poignant contrast to their earlier focus.

7. Legacy: The Human and Geopolitical Ripples (01:22:40)

• Reflections on Ambassador Chris Stevens’ ideals: a risk-taking, engaged diplomat who valued local relationships and dialogue.

  • Stevens’ family publicly rejected blaming Clinton or State Department:

    “He decided to take the risk to go there. It is not something they did to him.” — Ann Stevens (01:25:05)

• Benghazi’s aftermath devastated U.S.–Libyan diplomatic engagement. Libya sank further into civil war, with America withdrawing as chaos and foreign powers filled the vacuum.

  • “The Benghazi attack helped put an end to all of that. ...Libya lost its best advocate in the United States.” — Neyfakh (01:28:15)

• Benghazi as a buzzword came to symbolize the weaponization of scandal and the shift toward politics as spectacle.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The ultimate Rorschach test in American politics today may be the word Benghazi.” — Leon Neyfakh (21:25)
• “We had witnesses that were killed. ...They risked everything to cooperate with the FBI because they realized how dangerous the extremists were.” — Mike Clark (17:00)
• “If the Select Committee was, on some level, a PR battle, the Republicans were now winning.” — Neyfakh (01:04:30)
• “The long awaited House Republican report on Benghazi found no new evidence of wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton or anyone else.” — Neyfakh (01:18:15)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Split Realities & Scandal Overview: 03:30 – 07:30
• The FBI/DOJ Investigation: 07:30 – 20:45
• Congressional Committees & Select Committee Push: 20:45 – 36:00
• Fox News/Ailes Meeting: 36:00 – 39:15
• Trey Gowdy & Slow Start: 39:15 – 46:20
• Clinton Email Story Emerges: 46:20 – 53:00
• Kevin McCarthy’s Admission: 01:01:35
• Clinton's Testimony: 01:09:00 – 01:16:00
• Final Report & Fallout: 01:16:00 – 01:20:45
• Chris Stevens’ Legacy & U.S. Withdrawal: 01:22:40 – 01:29:00

Episode Tone

Neyfakh's narration is incisive, occasionally wry, and reflective. He approaches partisan motivations and institutional dynamics with a critical but measured voice, weaving together voices from both sides and emphasizing the long-term impact of political theater. The episode balances meticulous reporting with humane storytelling, particularly in its closing reflections on diplomatic ideals and unintended consequences for Libya.

Summary Takeaway

Fiasco’s finale on Benghazi details how an incident of tragic violence became a fulcrum for American political radicalization, media manipulation, and the corrosion of public trust—exacting costs far beyond the original event. The Benghazi affair catalyzed the era of weaponized scandal, with consequences still echoing in both U.S. politics and Libyan geopolitics today.