$300,000 Of Debt To "Flee Trump’s America" | Financial Audit

Summary

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Financial Audit with Caleb Hammer

Episode: $300,000 Of Debt To "Flee Trump’s America"
Date: October 6, 2025
Guests: Savannah Grace & Steve

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Overview

This episode centers around Savannah (27, currently unemployed) and Steve (28, a senior systems administrator) from Arlington, TX, who are grappling with significant debt (over $300,000, including mortgage), unstable employment, and a desire to move abroad for political and lifestyle reasons. Caleb Hammer critically examines their finances, life choices, and readiness for such a drastic move, offering unfiltered advice and sharp commentary. The conversation exposes dysfunctional financial habits, deflection from accountability, and relationship tensions over money, responsibility, and future plans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background & Relationship Dynamics

• Savannah: 27, unemployed, history of short-term jobs, and past family responsibilities (custody of younger sisters).
• Steve: 28, earns $90,000/year as a senior systems administrator, pays majority of household bills.
• Relationship: Dating ~9 months, living together since Savannah lost custody of her siblings; Steve rescued her from unstable housing.
• Dynamic: Steve financially supporting Savannah (who cannot find employment), creating a possibly unequal and "sugar daddy" style relationship.

2. Current Financial State

• Combined Income: $5,000/month hitting their account (Steve’s salary; Savannah unemployed).
• Expenses: Spending far exceeds income (last month: $6,782 spent on $5,000 earned).
• Debts:
  • Steve: Multiple maxed-out/over-the-limit credit cards (Southwest, Amazon, Amex), repeated late fees, over-limit charges.
  • Savannah: Car loan (~$4,700; car recently totaled), utility collections, former apartment debts, no current income.
  • Mortgage: $285,000 owed on a house Steve bought with an ex, $10,000 equity at best.
  • Total Non-mortgage Debt: ~$13,500.

3. Desire to "Flee Trump’s America"

• Both want to leave the U.S. for political/lifestyle reasons (citing dissatisfaction with U.S. politics, healthcare, and society).
• Countries named: New Zealand, Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Switzerland.
• Rationale: "Quality of life," "political climate," better healthcare, but unable to specify concrete, practical reasons.
• Caleb regularly counters these points, noting the economic/tech realities and stricter immigration requirements of these countries.
  • Quote:

    “You're willing to give up a $90,000 a year job when literally everyone is begging in tech for a job and Europe has a tech sector that’s not even close to the U.S.?” – Caleb (08:00)

4. Accountability and Victim Narratives

• Savannah: Frequently references past trauma and hardship as reasons for present struggles or inability to act (trouble holding jobs, not signing up for available healthcare, financial instability).
  • Caleb: Calls out repeated self-victimization and inability to follow through with practical solutions.
  • Quote:

    "You are doing nothing that would be considered trying. You are not trying. I don’t want to hear it. This is some bullshit." – Caleb (52:28)

• Steve: Sometimes expresses concern about being taken advantage of, but quickly backpedals, expressing guilt and an urge to “provide.”
  • Quote:

    “I am worried that you’re taking advantage of me a little bit… but I want to trust you.” – Steve (37:03)

5. Financial Mismanagement & Spending Habits

• Rampant overspending—almost $1,400/month on going out to eat, constant purchases on Amazon, expensive impulsive buys (e.g. $3,600 Victorian-style portrait).
  • Caleb highlights the disconnect between their declared hardship and their actual spending choices.
• Late fees: Multiple cards, high interest accrual, auto-pay systems neglected until pre-show, financial “stability” only attempted prior to being on camera.
  • Quote:

    “Three cards we've talked about so far, three, all have had fees. All have had fees. This is what you’re attaching yourself to.” – Caleb (77:11)

• Savannah used a one-time grant (meant for caring for siblings) to pay down part of Steve’s debt, forgoing covering her own critical bills.

6. Repeating Cycles & Deflection

• Both demonstrate patterns of deflection—Savannah via recounting trauma or focusing on systemic/political complaints; Steve by dodging accountability for missed payments.
  • Caleb: Consistently tries to refocus the conversation on practical actions and concrete problems.

7. Relationship and Communication Issues

• Steve admits he feels Savannah could be doing more and sometimes resents the imbalance, but struggles with open, productive communication.
• Arguments about finances often end with Savannah self-deprecating and Steve feeling forced to comfort her, rather than resolving the core issue.
  • Quote:

    “I'll bring something up and end up having to comfort her… then it kind of ends up fizzling out because I don’t get to get my point across.” – Steve (39:05)

8. Unlikely Plans & Immigration Realities

• Plans to move abroad repeatedly shown as unrealistic: lack of concrete plan, no savings, no job offers, and immigration requirements not being met.
  • Guest input from Valeria (head of HR with New Zealand experience) underscores the high cost of living and challenges of non-citizens finding work as non-married partners, especially with unemployment and weak savings.
  • Quote:

    “Unless you’re making $150,000 and have a lot of money in the bank, the standard of living in New Zealand is going to be pretty rough.” – Valeria (66:12)

9. Repeated "Do-Over" Pattern

• Savannah has “started over” many times, often abandoning responsibility mid-way, which is pointed out as an unsustainable pattern.
• Both lack concrete plans, save for vague "starting over" mantras.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fleeing the U.S.:
  • “Is there an actual plan here or is it a wah wah, I hate the America?” – Caleb (05:05, repeated at 09:46)
• On Healthcare:
  • “Girl, you haven’t signed up for health insurance to go to the doctor when you get it for free.” – Caleb (11:46)
• On Deflection:
  • “Is there anything in your life that is just not Trauma Olympics?” – Caleb (29:38 & 33:47)
• On Relationship Balance:
  • “I am worried that you're taking advantage of me a little bit… but I want to trust you.” – Steve (37:03)
• On Repeated Jobs Failing:
  • “You don't seem to be very good at literally anything. I don't mean that as an insult, but have we talked about one thing that you're able to do and not complain about and be victimy?” – Caleb (20:35)
• On Spending:
  • “Going out to eat was $1,323. Couldn't afford your payments off know for a fact, you guys's minimum payments outside of the mortgage is less than that.” – Caleb (94:57)
  • “You bought a $3,600 Victorian portrait of yourself and your cat.” – Caleb (94:35)
• On Immigration Reality:
  • “New Zealand seems a little off the table... unless you’re making $150,000 and have a lot of money in the bank, the standard of living there is going to be pretty rough.” – Valeria (66:12)
• On Credit Cards:
  • “You’re printing our bills on a card that is over the limit? That is accruing interest that we can't pay off to save our fucking life.” – Caleb (55:08)
• On "Starting Over":
  • “I’m not giving up. I’m just starting over. I just started over again.” – Savannah (33:59)
• On Accountability:
  • “Take accountability. Life based on your actions, not your thoughts.” – Caleb (32:56)

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Important Timestamps

• Getting to Know Savannah & Steve: 01:01 – 05:00
• Relationship & Living Situation: 04:09 – 05:14
• Why Flee America? Immigration Fantasies: 06:02 – 15:45
• Healthcare in the U.S. – Realities vs. Rhetoric: 10:04 – 13:26
• Cycles of Victimhood & Deflection: 15:46 – 22:24
• Past Trauma and Current Inaction: 26:16 – 34:06
• Financial Dependency Arguments: 36:12 – 43:42
• Late Fees, Credit Card Debt, & Reckless Spending: 52:28 – 64:24
• Valeria (HR, on New Zealand): 63:00 – 66:07
• Monthly Budget Breakdown: 96:23 – 98:47
• Spending Exposed, $3,600 Cat Portrait: 94:35 – 94:48
• Final Budget Math & Takeaway: 98:47 – 100:34

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Tone & Style

• Language and Tone: Blunt, irreverent, often confrontational, with moments of sardonic humor. Caleb doesn’t hold back criticism, but does so referencing common sense and practical steps. Occasional crude language matches the “tough-love” tone of the show.
• Relationship Dynamics: Tense, as undercurrents of resentment and manipulation surface when honest conversations are steered into emotional territory.

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Conclusions & Takeaways

• Savannah and Steve are in no position, financially or emotionally, to make a drastic international move.
• Their immediate priority should be to curtail reckless spending, create a realistic plan to pay down debt, and for Savannah to secure employment.
• Both need to take real accountability for their circumstances rather than blaming long-past events or outside political climates.
• Until they address their core relationship issues, financial codependency, and cycles of deflection, their situation is almost certain to repeat—regardless of what country they live in.

Final Advice from Caleb:

• “Go get a job. You go bring in a thousand bucks a month, we can pay off your debt in like two years. That's not that bad. Bring in more, we can pay it off a lot quicker.” (99:00)
• Financial Score: 1.5 out of 10 (“rounded up”).

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For more honest, often brutal financial interventions, subscribe to Financial Audit or visit calebhammer.com to take your own financial health quiz.

Transcript

[Caleb Hammer]

To watch episodes of financial audit a week earlier. Check us out on YouTube.

[Steve]

We really want to get the out of this country.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is there an actual plan here or is it a wah wah, I hate the America?

[Steve]

I wouldn't say that.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, we can disagree with every elected official.

[Steve]

They were elected now know about Democratic.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is there anything in your life that is just like not trauma Olympics?

[Steve]

You don't put in enough effort. You could do more.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're doing nothing that would be considered trying.

[Savannah Grace]

I'm trying to.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, you're not, because you're doing.

[Savannah Grace]

Yes, I'm saying you.

[Caleb Hammer]

You are not trying. I don't want to hear it. This is some bullshit. Sign up for the new and improved dollar wise budgeting app. Take the free trial and if you like it, sign up for the annual version to save a ton of money and get my budget friendly cookbook signed by me and mailed directly to you. And for a limited time only, if you want to bundle all of my educational programs together with the budget app, join dollar wise Central and save 80%. Take the trial and learn [e-mail].

[Savannah Grace]

Hi, I'm Savannah Grace and I'm 27 years old.

[Steve]

Hey, I'm Steve. I'm 28. We live in Arlington, Texas, and this is financial audit.

[Caleb Hammer]

Thanks for coming down to Austin, guys. I appreciate it. Savannah, you're the one in front of me. Oh, you're welcome. What do you do for a living?

[Savannah Grace]

I'm currently unemployed.

[Caleb Hammer]

Great job. And what do you do?

[Steve]

I'm a senior systems administrator.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. I really thought it was gonna be starting your own brewery. Okay.

[Steve]

I want to open a game store with a cafe. I can see a cafe. And I can see.

[Savannah Grace]

I think he's talking about your hipster mess.

[Steve]

Yeah, I can see. I get it. I get it. But. So you're not off the mark entirely.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hipster mustache, stuck in 2010 and septum piercing. So I got the full combination.

[Steve]

You got the classic like, bisexual with the. With the nerdy boyfriend combo.

[Caleb Hammer]

I thought you were calling yourself bisexual. What are you homophobic? No, no. What do you. What do you make?

[Steve]

I make 90,000 a year.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so this is why you're unemployed. Why are you unemployed in your own mind? Because 90,000. Yes, obviously we can survive the off the households that. Well above the median household in the state of Texas. In the city of Arlington, I'd bet. Certainly in the city of Austin and certainly in the United States. So why are you unemployed right now?

[Savannah Grace]

It's just been really hard for me to find a job I've been applying for.

[Caleb Hammer]

What jobs are you trying to find?

[Savannah Grace]

6 months, just like an office job. Honestly, the last 3 years of my work history, I've been in and out of offices.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, in and out of offices probably doesn't look good on a resume. Who wants you to come in if you're going to be out?

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, I've got. Just had like a lot of struggle with stability and I've never really been able to hold down a job.

[Caleb Hammer]

So no one's going to hire you then? If that's being shown on your resume, I certainly wouldn't. Well, just going to say. Okay. What hits our account on a monthly basis?

[Steve]

5,000 total.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, cool.

[Steve]

A month.

[Caleb Hammer]

How are we doing on this 5k?

[Steve]

We are surviving, but not thriving.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? And by the way, usually people are not really surviving when they're on the show. I'm just gonna let you know. So I'm probably gonna call bullshit.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

But. Yeah. Why? What's going on?

[Steve]

Well, we have like all the bills covered, but a big. A big thing is a big.

[Caleb Hammer]

Never late.

[Steve]

No, I don't. I wouldn't say never.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, he says, I wouldn't say never.

[Savannah Grace]

I. I've not missed any of my bills in the last.

[Steve]

Cause I'm paying the bills.

[Savannah Grace]

Well, he's paying them for me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait, wait, wait. Are you guys married?

[Steve]

No.

[Savannah Grace]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you're not. Oh, this gets real Sugar daddy. Real quick. How long have you guys been dating?

[Steve]

It's been about eight months. Almost nine.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, very young relationship here. Okay.

[Savannah Grace]

We actually met in high school.

[Steve]

Yeah. We've known each other since high school.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah. But we just kind of went separate ways and recently reconnected.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure. Is marriage on the horizon? I don't even know this early into a relationship. Are you guys living together?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

How long have you guys lived together?

[Steve]

Since April, May. Since you guys moved in immediately. Yeah.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Steve]

It happened pretty fast.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. That's very interesting. I mean, I did too, for what it's worth, but, you know, interesting circumstances. I'd love to hear yours.

[Steve]

Main thing is she had a situation with her younger sisters. She had custody of them for like six months. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

For six months?

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

How old are they?

[Savannah Grace]

They were 17 and 10 at the time.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure.

[Steve]

So she had custody of them, that fell through, and then she was left kind of with nothing. And so I was like, well, I would prefer you not be on the street, so come live with me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Weird dynamic. Is it a weird dynamic?

[Savannah Grace]

No, I feel like it's pretty balanced.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well balanced. What's the buddy's taking care of your bills. He got you off the streets, he's taking care of all your bills. You can't hold down a job to save your life. Feels like a weird dynamic to me.

[Savannah Grace]

Well, so actually I received a grant shortly after I moved in with him.

[Caleb Hammer]

For what?

[Savannah Grace]

It was like a reimbursement for taking care of my sisters.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, well. Okay. That's not a job. I'm sorry. I mean the grant, the grant isn't. You got the one time grant is out of the way. It's done. Because you don't have the custody anymore. You're not doing it anymore. Right?

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Where are they?

[Savannah Grace]

My 17 year old sister, she turned 18. She decided to live with some other family members. My 10 year old sister. Sister is currently about to be placed with her mom.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, okay. Interesting that she wasn't already. But I. I get it. Life's complicated. I get it. So what are we talking about today, guys? What are we talking about? What's going on?

[Steve]

We're. We really want to get the. Out of this country.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Steve]

In the next.

[Savannah Grace]

We'd really like to move out of the United States. That was a big thing that we were in alignment.

[Caleb Hammer]

Go where?

[Steve]

Like we have a few options that.

[Savannah Grace]

We talked about like New Zealand or.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's not a cheap one. That will be a failed one. That'll be an extra failed one.

[Steve]

Germany, Germany, Northern European countries like Denmark, Switzerland, Netherlands.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Steve]

She's also. We've also.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Steve]

Just because of the political climate, you know, we don't think things are going great.

[Caleb Hammer]

Europe's going to the right as well.

[Steve]

Yeah. I mean the whole world is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Worldwide reforms about the just smash and win the next UK election. I don't.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Italy. You say Italy. Everyone, Everyone.

[Steve]

I don't want. I didn't say it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who says Italy? You're saying Italy. You know, they're best news to me. You know, everyone, everyone on like in the United States and whatnot calls her a fascist. Right?

[Savannah Grace]

Really? You know, I know. I didn't know that.

[Steve]

You know what?

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, the white's gonna likely win in France as well.

[Steve]

You know, you know what Italy did in World War II, right?

[Savannah Grace]

Well, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I know that.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know why we're talking about 100 years ago, but. Okay. Yeah, 80, but Lord. Okay. And how's this productive to you guys? Because you're making a United States income right now substantially higher.

[Savannah Grace]

Well, that with him being in it that he could get a job kind of.

[Caleb Hammer]

There's tech sector. Is not even close to what the United States is by far.

[Steve]

Yeah. Just based on like research I've done.

[Caleb Hammer]

Even close.

[Steve]

I know my, I know my career field is in high demand in a.

[Caleb Hammer]

Lot of different places certainly, but even the United States I t of where we have a booming tech sector.

[Steve]

Tech is rough right now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Not easy to get hired in at this exact moment. So that seems like a bit of overconfidence.

[Steve]

Sure. I mean I have like, I mean I worked at Amazon before. I have a really great resume.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's great. A lot of people have really great resumes right now and they're not getting jobs. You're willing to give up a ninety thousand dollar a year job when literally everyone is begging in the tech world for a job and Europe has a tech sector that's not even close to competing with China. United States. I don't know what we're talking about here.

[Steve]

Well, I mean we're just. I, I guess it's like the trade off is, is I make less money. But the idea is that, you know, our quality of life would be better in a different country.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, to a certain extent. I don't know. What kind of life are you trying to live?

[Steve]

I mean, I want to live.

[Caleb Hammer]

He doesn't have a job, so.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, well, I'm currently trying to go back to school. I want to be an English teacher of English as a foreign language in another country.

[Caleb Hammer]

And that could work. What's the quality of life? Because if we're talking quiet walkable communities, sure, you can get that.

[Steve]

But yeah, I mean that's kind of what we're going for.

[Caleb Hammer]

You can find that in pockets in the United States as well. It's less common, but I don't know, even still, when it comes to dollars left over, I mean the math has been done. You take every subsidy, you get everything from the government funded healthcare. One on this is in Germany alone. You take that, you compare it to the United States. After everything that's free over there that we have to pay in the private sector because our incomes are so substantially higher, we still at the end of the day have more leftover money. It's not substantially more, but even after everything with all taxes, all social programs combined, we technically have leftover money. More. So that quality of life, where is it? Is it in the community specifically? A lot of people are complaining about the communities over there right now. Like, I don't know.

[Steve]

Well, the idea is that it's in.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is there an actual plan here or is it a wham wah, I hate the America.

[Steve]

I mean, I wouldn't say that. I mean, I mean what do you hate?

[Savannah Grace]

Like literally everything about America.

[Caleb Hammer]

Let's get a couple specifics.

[Savannah Grace]

All right. Because everything's a lot the healthcare industry.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, what about it? I know that I have like so many undiagnosed conditions you guys make.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, you're not married, but at $90,000 a year, I mean you guys get pretty top end health care as it.

[Savannah Grace]

Combines been able to take advantage of that.

[Caleb Hammer]

You guys aren't married, you're not on his health care. But even still you $0 the welfare state that we have, you get a pretty robust coverage still.

[Savannah Grace]

I mean they're.

[Caleb Hammer]

Have you applied what have you applied to? What health insurance do you have right now?

[Savannah Grace]

None.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's your fault. The Affordable Care act is there for you@the healthcare.gov for you to enroll in things that are completely subsidized.

[Steve]

I mean I've been trying to get you to apply this stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

This sounds like a you problem. You're complaining about something that you haven't done. Don'. Get me wrong. Health insurance in this country is ridiculously expensive. You're not going to get me defending it by any means. But when you take an idiotic stance of it's bad, but I've done nothing, it's like what the am I going to say? You're going to make me sound like I'm the most Roo roo. Yay. Let's charge a billion dollars constantly. But for what it's worth, remember, if you can afford it, we do have the best health care in the world. And you guys as a combined household income of 90,000 when you're married, you would have access.

[Savannah Grace]

I just can't believe that because especially.

[Caleb Hammer]

Leave that because of feelings.

[Savannah Grace]

Woman in the United States. Okay, well you're talking abortion present with I've actually had two abortions. Okay, but when you're a woman in the United States and you have like a chronic health condition, you are more likely to go undiagnosed for 10 plus years.

[Caleb Hammer]

Girl, you haven't signed up for health insurance to go to the doctor when you get it for free.

[Savannah Grace]

I mean even when I've had health.

[Caleb Hammer]

Issues, that's a. I'm being a person that's not signing up. Girl, you have nothing but time. And then again you. This is the crazy thing, I hate that you are getting me to defend our system, which is a certainly broken system. Everyone agrees on that across all political ideologies and you're getting me to defend it because of the simple fact that you just literally haven't taken five minutes to go online and sign up for something that I pay taxes for. And happily. And it's because you're a woman.

[Savannah Grace]

All right.

[Caleb Hammer]

I think it's because you haven't gone. Go on. Let's hear something else. Cause that one was lost. That one up. What else do we hate other than everything? Because this is. Listen, we're not doing, you know, big United States debate. The thing is, we are making a massive financial change where you are going to go to a place where you are objectively going to get paid less. Okay. You get social benefits. You know, it almost offsets it in certain places. France? No. Italy. Definitely not. Germany. Potentially northern European countries. Certainly more like Norway with the sovereign wealth fund. Very. They invested it very capitalistically and very well. Wish we could do that with Social Security. We did it. Now we're. But either way, good. So we're making a big financial decision here, but you can't bring up an actual point as to why when you just say you hate everything. Can you give me one thing it's a little more valid.

[Savannah Grace]

Just feel like with the.

[Caleb Hammer]

Feel like, here we go.

[Savannah Grace]

Regime that's in place, that we're democratically elected.

[Caleb Hammer]

You can disagree with them towards. We can disagree with every elected official.

[Steve]

We now know about. Democratic.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Okay. Federalism. Yes. Okay. Okay. So you just disagree with the president and that's fine. You know, you would not agree with the prime minister of Italy at all. They call her a fascist. Everyone like you, Septon Pierson, calls her a legitimate fascist.

[Savannah Grace]

To be fair, I hadn't done much research.

[Steve]

Yeah. I was gonna say.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that's as clear as day.

[Steve]

She got the. She got the Facebook reel treatment, you know.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hey, how do you deal with that? Because that would drive me crazy. If we can't have any realistic conversations.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

About our future life.

[Steve]

I mean, I definitely feel like I'm more of the realistic side of the couple. You know, I'm the one always saying, hey, we need to spend less money. We overspent in this area. You know, I was like, hey, we need to start a plan. Like, she didn't have a plan to go back to school really until I kind of, like, helped her with it.

[Savannah Grace]

ChatGPT helped me with that.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, are you able to do anything yourself?

[Savannah Grace]

Yes.

[Steve]

You can't feed yourself.

[Savannah Grace]

Oh, that's true.

[Steve]

Getting her to eat is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Glad we're laughing about it. But are you. I did. Have you been an adult once in your. Nah. Nine Years of adulthood.

[Savannah Grace]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

How you abandon every job, you can't feed yourself. You're trying to run to a country that you don't even understand. That, by the way, is a completely failed economy. Italy, good. The luck. People don't even leave their homes, their parents homes anymore. People don't move out because there's no job opportunities. It's really bad. Northern Italy is okay. Southern Italy, completely gone. Probably don't know anything about that. Okay, that's fine. Great. I just. I see an extreme lack of knowledge on literally anything and extreme lack of ever doing anything with effort or maturity on your end, which is deeply concerning to me.

[Savannah Grace]

That everything I've struggled with up until now has prevented me from being able to get to a point of stability in my life. And I don't know, part of wanting to come to you.

[Caleb Hammer]

You won't even apply for literal, subsidized free health insurance. This is the best in the world. Absolutely not. But you will get preventative care with it and emergency care. A hundred percent. I'm confused. You won't do that. You say you have no stability. You will not take five to 10 minutes.

[Savannah Grace]

I just honestly hadn't thought about that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, I. I will be. I will be candid. I. I went through the process. Listen, it wasn't fully justified, I'll be honest. And I ended up paying it all back in the end, for what it's worth. But I went through the process because I was laid off from a company I was working. Double got laid off from the one I wasn't working. Who would have thought? Okay, fair enough. And I'm not criticizing them for that at all. Totally justified. This was years ago now. But I freaked out. I was a little nervous. I lost my health insurance. So I went on to the healthcare.gov and I applied and, you know, I kind of set it up where it's like, okay, it could be free and stuff like that. Literally took me 10 minutes. And I had great health, Great health insurance. Pretty much cost me nothing. Okay. I had to pay it all back in the end of the year because clearly it showed. That year I made a lot of money because I had another job. I was just freaking out, very nervous. This is so easy. You could do this in no time. No, this sounds like a sponsorship for it. It's not.

[Savannah Grace]

I was gonna say. Are you plugging them right now?

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I'm plugging you. Not being an immature.

[Savannah Grace]

Guess. I gotta work on it then.

[Steve]

Yeah, I've been saying that. I mean, getting hurt.

[Savannah Grace]

You don't Know me.

[Steve]

I've been broken up with, apparently.

[Caleb Hammer]

By the way, even for what it's worth, people like you again, the septum piercing army right now, even in Germany, is the center right party. The chancellor is the center right party, which of course, anything centrist or center right is immediately a fascist right now.

[Steve]

So.

[Caleb Hammer]

You sure we want to move there?

[Savannah Grace]

No, that was just on, like, the short list of places it might be fun to go.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, we're going to need to get you on the short bus when you leave the studio today for the sound of it. I don't even advocating because, like, I, I know how this conversation is going right now because I'm talking to someone like you who has, like, been pushed to the far left very clearly. I sound like I'm on the right, where I go very nuanced position to position. I just go where the facts are. But because any, whenever you talk to any extremists, you sound like you're on the other side. And it's killing me because people are immediately going to see this. Be like, girls are republican, fascist, blah, blah, blah. It's just like, you guys are morons. If you guys were on the far right, I would sound like. I would sound like, okay, liberal. It's like, but what the. You're clearly so far gone that you can't even have, like, a nuanced take on the society you live in. And you, you won't even look into the resources we literally have. What is our government? Our government's what, 60 to 70% federal spending goes to social services, and you're not even taking advantage of anything.

[Savannah Grace]

I just feel like I won't qualify for them.

[Caleb Hammer]

I feel like. Except you. Would you make no money? Are you ridiculous? Would you get on unemployment? No, not right now. Nor should you. You're not entitled to that. You paid it in the system a little bit and that's well gone. Yeah, but of course you would be covered with health insurance. This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. And the kids. And the kids. Did you. I'm. I, I'm. Did you give them back? Did you leave them? I'm confused because it seems so sudden that you had them and then all of a sudden they're not.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, there was. I honestly bit off more than I could chew, and I wasn't capable of taking care of them. We all just had a lot of conflicting issues, and putting all that together was like trying to toss a salad without a bowl. It's just a mess. Chaos.

[Caleb Hammer]

Big guy, you seem a bit more reasonable. Okay. And I don't care if you're politically left or right. Doesn't matter. I'm assuming you're left, but you're reasonable and. And that's all that matters because everyone can be on all political sides. Okay? You're not to the far extremist. Like extremism. Scary and ridiculous. What the is your take on all this? This is crazy. And you're going to again, pack up, lose all this money and just go for something you don't have even a job lined up for?

[Steve]

Sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is very.

[Savannah Grace]

It's more of a long term plan. Like 5.

[Caleb Hammer]

Long term without a short term plan usually doesn't end up being long term.

[Savannah Grace]

I'm not very good at making plans.

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't seem to be very good at literally anything. I don't mean that as an insult, but have we talked about one thing that you're able to do and not complain about and be victimy?

[Savannah Grace]

No. You. You've pointed out a lot of my weaknesses and I just.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's been like what, 10 minutes and I haven't. You don't know what to take. Maybe reflection. Okay. Yeah. What's your take, guy?

[Steve]

Antidepressants.

[Caleb Hammer]

Huh?

[Steve]

Antidepressants.

[Caleb Hammer]

What. What about antidepressants?

[Steve]

Well, she's taking antidepressants. I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm on Celexa. Reminds me. I don't. Okay. It didn't turn me into a. That freaks out and cries about everything and gets all my information from Tik Tok and Reddit.

[Steve]

Sure. Well, the. The sister situation, buddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

More that you are abandoning everything you've built because your girlfriend's terrified of everything and gets all her Tik Tok and thinks that is reliable news.

[Savannah Grace]

I actually don't use Tik Tok.

[Caleb Hammer]

Could have fooled me.

[Steve]

I mean, reals is the same thing, more or less.

[Caleb Hammer]

Little more fun. Racism on reals. I'll be honest. But continue.

[Steve]

Yeah, I mean, we. I know it's. It's not, you know, the smartest thing financially to like, leave my job and go to a different country.

[Caleb Hammer]

Not even talking about even that alone. It's latching yourself to her. Someone that can't hold on her job that is a victim in everything and abandoning what you have here for that.

[Steve]

I mean, she's not a victim in everything.

[Caleb Hammer]

She haven't heard one yet.

[Steve]

I mean, yeah, she needs a lot of help, but like, she. She's been through a lot and she just needed a lot of help.

[Caleb Hammer]

Everyone's been through a lot. Everyone's life is complicated.

[Steve]

I mean, yeah, but we're, we're dealing with that stuff. We're working through it. And, you know, I.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I will be hearing that when you guys are 60.

[Steve]

I, I think so. I have, I have faith that, like, she has, that she'll be able to, you know, grow in the areas that she is struggling with.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is concerning.

[Savannah Grace]

So, honestly, when I was a kid, my biggest dream in life was to go back to school. And when I graduated when I was a kid.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you Woke up at 7 years old and had a dream that you wanted to go back to school? This is. Guys, thanks.

[Savannah Grace]

I wanted to go to college.

[Caleb Hammer]

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[Savannah Grace]

I wanted to go to college my whole life. Okay? When I graduated high school, my parents refused to fill out my FAFSA for me and I actually went and applied for scholarships on my own.

[Caleb Hammer]

Filling it out.

[Savannah Grace]

Like you had to have their tax information in order to fill out the.

[Steve]

They wouldn't provide the tax information.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, they refused.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean there has to be a workaround. There's people that don't have kids. Listen, I'm not overly informed on the FAFSA application as a whole, but to say that only like there's so many child or parentless kids or deadbeat parents that get advantage things or Pell GR grant situations even.

[Savannah Grace]

So I actually went and Applied for my own scholarships.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, good start. That's great.

[Savannah Grace]

Then at 19, my parents didn't like the guy I was dating. Which is fair in retrospect because he was black.

[Steve]

No, his parents would feel that way.

[Caleb Hammer]

Probably that he was black or her.

[Steve]

Parents would probably also feel that way.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I was joking, but. I see.

[Steve]

Okay, you unwittingly hit the nail on the head on that one.

[Savannah Grace]

But. So they kicked me out and they kept my scholarship money until two weeks before it expired.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can I do a little tangent real quick? Just because you had racist piece of parents doesn't mean you have to go to the extreme other side as well.

[Savannah Grace]

I feel like it's my responsibility to make up for their lack in life.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no, no. Extremism matched with extremism does not work. We are so done. Okay, continue. Okay, great. So did you go to college? I don't know.

[Savannah Grace]

No.

[Steve]

Fight fire with fire.

[Savannah Grace]

No, I wasn't able to go after I turned 18 and when I was 23 I applied on my own and I didn't have any financial aid come through again.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, and why did you go to community college?

[Savannah Grace]

Dude, I didn't even have anybody to co sign my student loans.

[Caleb Hammer]

No community college. You could have cash flowed community college.

[Savannah Grace]

No, I couldn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, you could have. Community college is as cash flowable as anything. So I'm still confused how. I feel like the more I push back, the more you talk about something that is sad in the past that has nothing to do with actually what's.

[Savannah Grace]

Going on though right now. I've just been, you know, trying to take care of things. I've been applying to jobs. I put in over 300 applications in less than three months and I just not heard anything back from any of them except for a couple of mlms.

[Caleb Hammer]

Surprised you haven't fallen into that by the way.

[Steve]

That's what I said, by the way. That's what I said by the way.

[Caleb Hammer]

Look, fafsa, here we go. Because this took me about three seconds while I was also listening to you.

[Savannah Grace]

You can just reapplied for FAFSA on my own this year.

[Caleb Hammer]

Again, quiet lady. I was talking. You're doing a me where I interrupt you. That's very rude of me to do that.

[Savannah Grace]

All right, as you were saying?

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, this took me about five seconds. Back then you could have claimed independent status and file without your parents info.

[Savannah Grace]

They were still claiming me as a dependent on their taxes.

[Caleb Hammer]

How old were you?

[Savannah Grace]

17.

[Caleb Hammer]

You could have skipped a year and still done it though.

[Savannah Grace]

I was Homeless at that time. A year later.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you were not emancipated. Is there anything in your life that is just, like, not Trauma Olympics?

[Savannah Grace]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, great.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So how do we do anything ever? Do we just give up and say, oh, no, 18 to 20 sucked and we will never do anything in our life? Like I said.

[Savannah Grace]

When I was 23, I tried again to reapply to college.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, 23, you would have been totally fine for FAFSA. Independence.

[Savannah Grace]

I actually, I did refile my FAFSA. I didn't get anything. I tried to apply for student aid. I didn't get anything. They told me that two weeks before I was supposed to, like, sign up for my classes, the, like, counselor called me and told me that my SAT and my ACT scores were expired and I would have to wait until October and November to retake the equivalency test.

[Caleb Hammer]

Fair enough.

[Savannah Grace]

And then have to reapply the next spring.

[Caleb Hammer]

Fair enough.

[Savannah Grace]

And at that time, I had just found out I was pregnant a second time.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you do not have any kids.

[Savannah Grace]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

So, I mean, you solved that one.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. So that didn't really impact much. It sounds like.

[Savannah Grace]

Well, I just. I was. And also, by the way, supporting my ex at the time and when my. That I was pregnant.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is impossible. This is why this is impossible. Listen, you struggled with some things and many things I sympathize with. And I would have at that time, if it was happening right now, hugged you and cried with you. It is not happening. This was a long time ago, and you are using it. As 27 years old, I can't do anything.

[Steve]

I mean, that stuff has an impact on you now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Has an impact on you now. But if you give up, you're never gonna do anything.

[Savannah Grace]

But I haven't given up. I've already reapplied for school again.

[Caleb Hammer]

He has to feed you.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, but he. When. When everything happened back in March, he offered to do that for me. He offered to take care.

[Caleb Hammer]

He says you would not feed yourself and you would be homeless and all this stuff if you. If he didn't. So, no, I would offer it too, because I'm not going to let someone die.

[Savannah Grace]

I would have figured something out. I am very resilient. I have been through so much in my life. I have started over and redone everything a dozen and a half times.

[Steve]

She's lived a lot of life and been through a lot of stuff. So, you know, she. That's why I have faith in her, that she'll.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's why we're moving from the United States. And also if your parents, if you're dependent but your parents won't or can't provide info, you can do a special circumstances appeal. If your parents refuse to provide any tax info but still support you, you can submit FAFSA without their data to only be eligible for unsub federal loans. I know, but I'm saying I found this in literally less than 30 seconds.

[Steve]

Isn't it FAFSA? F A? F S A, not FAFSA. Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

I know Google existed back then.

[Savannah Grace]

I, I just, I didn't, I didn't know to look for stuff like that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can't do anything. Okay. Okay. From there. Like what? Again, what I struggle with in this conversation. This is a. Take accountability. This isn't a. Bad things happen. We've all been through bad things. I've been through bad things. Not as bad as yours. He's been bad through things. Not as bad as yours. We're not doing a jerk off session comparing which one was worse. And we're also not sitting here and justifying every single failure that you're doing and that you're not willing to make any improvements. Life based on your actions, not your thoughts. Because life was hard five to seven and eight and nine years ago. I'm sorry you went through that. That doesn't mean life is done. And that is not this conversation and not this show. But you've. You say you're not giving up, but your entire life looks like giving up. You're not willing to apply for health insurance right now in 10 minutes, like you can't do anything.

[Savannah Grace]

I'm not giving up. I'm just starting over. I just started over again.

[Caleb Hammer]

But he's upset you haven't found a job. The producer's saying he's actually upset you haven't found a job. Ladies and gentlemen, a financial audit. This is one of the most exciting moments in this channel's history. You know, I've been working on building all these educational tools, our budgeting app, all this crazy stuff over this past year because that is where my passion is. We finally did it and now we put it all into one program called Doll Wise Central. You get the premium version of my budgeting app. You get the cookbook mailed to you and signed by me. You get to learn about debt, investing, budgeting, real estate, basic beginner stuff, and finance all the way to the advanced stuff collaborated by experts with the lowest refund rate in the industry for a reason. And guess what? If you are struggling or you want to learn More or you want to change your life in any way whatsoever like literal tens of thousands of people have done with our programs? Go to Dollarwise.com click that link below. Your life will change. It'll be incredible. And I am here for you with an incredible support team that you can reach at any time. This is a no brainer$wise.com let's go. If our significant other is feeling that clearly there is something more here. And listen, this is a tale as classic, as old as time again Reddit, TikTok. Get on it right now. You'll see it. You will absolutely avoid any pushback or accountability for what your life looks like today by leaning on oh things were sad in the past of which again, at that time I would have supported you, I would have hugged you, I would have cried with you. Great. That's not happening now. And you are using it as a deflection for what you are not doing right now. And he's upset you're not getting a job. He's upset. The guy taking care of you. The guy who's willing to lose his good paying job to go work in a tech market that doesn't exist in a different continent with languages he can't speak unless you go to uk, but good luck there.

[Savannah Grace]

Well, him wanting to move was a thing that he wanted before I even came in the picture. And that was part of the reason that we.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you're upset about her getting a job? Walk, walk me through it.

[Steve]

Yeah, I mean we've definitely had, whenever we have arguments about our financial situation, it always, you know, boils down to, well, XYZ would be better if you had a job and an income and. Yeah, I mean, I feel like you don't like, put in enough effort. I feel like you could like, you could do more like, you know, you sleep in a lot and you're, I mean, I'm cooking, cleaning, taking care of the animals, watering the plants and I water my plants.

[Savannah Grace]

You don't water my plants.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean I lost my awards. I'd give one, but I, I can't find them right now. Sorry, continue.

[Steve]

I mean that's, I mean the plants is just one thing. But like I still like contribute in every area on top of working. And then I just, you know, I don't, I mean, I am worried that you're taking advantage of me a little bit, you know, but like.

[Caleb Hammer]

I, I.

[Steve]

Want to, I want to trust you.

[Savannah Grace]

Implicitly when, when we've talked about this at home. Like you've never, you've never said that before.

[Steve]

I mean, I mean, maybe I wasn't direct enough about, about it, but I've been trying to communicate, you know, like, hey, you could put in more effort. Like I, I just think that you could be doing more. And I feel like there's definitely an imbalance like that I'm, I'm kind of doing everything and you know, you're not even working.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, remember when you said your, your exes were financially taking advantage of you? Now here's the thing. You're right. He may not have said that, but this happens in, this isn't obviously official as couples therapy, but in settings similar to this. In couples therapy, that's where the real thing comes out that people hold back from wanting the same person because they don't want to start a fight, they don't want to start an argument at home. You, this is that and to use language from your world, a safe place.

[Savannah Grace]

That's fair.

[Steve]

I try to be that for you. You know, I want you to be able to come to me with stuff and talk to me about things and be open and you know, I feel like I don't have the same opportunity. I feel like if I bring stuff up, like you get upset and you get angry and tell me about that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Tell me about how those conversations go where she gets, she gets upset and angry.

[Steve]

Well, I'll just bring something up and I end up having to comfort her at the end of it, you know, because it's like she'll start saying I'm such a like worthless partner. I, I, you no, she says that about herself and then I have to be like, no, no, no, you're not. Like I have to like comfort her and reassure her a lot. And then, you know, then it kind of ends up fizzling out because I don't get to get my point across. And then yeah, that's kind of kick the can down there.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's actually again, let's take more notes from your TikTok community. That's an incredibly manipulative and almost gaslighting thing that you're doing where you have a real conversation and then you go, oh, I'm not a good partner. I'm not contributing anything that is manipulative as to not be able to have that conversation and then go in there with that bull, that self victimizing bull that's up.

[Savannah Grace]

I feel like we always like resolve our issues.

[Steve]

I, I, I mean, you feel that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because you deflect self victimize and he stops the conversation and you feel resolved because he embraces You, I mean we.

[Steve]

Do, we do get to finish the conversation. But you know, I feel like in, in that area, especially with looking for another job, like I like every, everything can be like you know, some people like the tradwife thing. Some you know, it like different relationships have different like, like ratios of stuff.

[Savannah Grace]

Whoever wants to do things specifically told me that if I don't want to work, I don't have to work. That you would get a higher paying job and that I could just stay at home.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you did set it up like that, it would be a little weird to go against it.

[Savannah Grace]

He has said that to me multiple times.

[Steve]

I mean that's an option but like that's, that's not.

[Savannah Grace]

And that's not what I want. I want a job. My self worth is directly tied to how productive I can be and I have.

[Caleb Hammer]

But no offense, you've never been productive.

[Savannah Grace]

I've, I've been.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's the longest job you ever had?

[Savannah Grace]

A year and three months.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Savannah Grace]

Was end of life care for an elderly man with dementia.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why do you always have to go See, this is what she does. She always has to go into the conversation with bringing up something sad to shut it down. You see how this works? I mean it's not good. It is not a healthy way to live or to have conversations. But I hope you recognize this.

[Steve]

But like all this stuff has happened and it does have an effect on her.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm not saying it doesn't, but it's the way that every conversation is with her. You bring up a valid point, then she has to bring in something where it gets sad. And if you then push on that valid point again, you all of a sudden look bad because oh no, something sad happened. Cuz you can't be a dick and push back against someone where something sad has happened. Cuz then you look like a piece of. And it's a tactic people like her use to get out of any valid criticism.

[Steve]

I just don't think she's doing it on purpose to try and.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it's in her DNA. This is how she lives. This is how she's gotten past any criticism in her life. This is learned and it's instinctual to her.

[Steve]

And we're working on helping her emotional terrorism. We're working on helping her change that. You know, are we.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because I'm the first one to bring it up and you haven't brought it up and you don't even see them seem to agree with me right now.

[Steve]

I mean I feel like I was. It's a process.

[Savannah Grace]

When I was in therapy last year.

[Caleb Hammer]

I should probably do that times three.

[Savannah Grace]

Well, I just.

[Caleb Hammer]

But not an enabling therapist, which again, I don't want to loop you in a group, but many people, like, yeah, they only wait. They only go through therapists until they find the therapist that enables their thoughts and behavior and world view. And it's very bad because you need someone to challenge you.

[Savannah Grace]

I'm. I'm ready for a challenge.

[Caleb Hammer]

A year and one month worth of one.

[Savannah Grace]

What's that in reference to?

[Caleb Hammer]

The job?

[Steve]

A year and three.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, three.

[Steve]

Hey, those two extra months, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is a mess.

[Savannah Grace]

That being said, though, I. For the last nine years of my life, I've bounced around. I've been homeless, I've been with partners that took advantage of me. I was the sole breadwinner in all of those relationships.

[Caleb Hammer]

Here's the tactic. We just talked about the tactic and she's doing it. She gets valid criticism and then falls back on the victim so that the valid criticism can no longer be pushed.

[Savannah Grace]

My point is that I was the sole breadwinner for most of those relationships. I was the only person taking care of other people and my debt and stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, I mean, come on. I don't know what happened back then. Again, that was nine years ago. So things with the collections, they would have fallen off by now anyway, so that doesn't matter. But either way, cool. Let's 100% take what you just said as real. You were the breadwinner. You were the breadwinner. 100%. And there was, you know, nothing flawed in that. You were the breadwinner. You know what I say? Very good. Why don't you do that then, if you are such an expert at it?

[Savannah Grace]

I am applying to jobs.

[Caleb Hammer]

Never held down a job for more than a year and three months.

[Savannah Grace]

It's because I've literally never been in one place that long.

[Caleb Hammer]

That is your choice. I mean, it was to a certain extent, you're right. Maybe you have to leave that apartment, but you can go to an apartment down the block.

[Steve]

No, I mean, like, she was in situations where she couldn't leave, right? Like, yeah. Leaving abusive situations is not always so simple as just like walking away.

[Caleb Hammer]

Not saying that one, but the you. So you've only been in abusive relationships for the last nine years?

[Savannah Grace]

I mean, I've for.

[Caleb Hammer]

In the last nine years. Every instance of your life has only been abusive relationships?

[Savannah Grace]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then there. So shut the up with that criticism because this is the fallback. I never said she cannot. Or she could just Move from the abusive. I didn't say that. She suggested it was maybe a couple years. She just said for the last nine years she was endlessly moving. So off with that bull. That is such a deflection to try to play victim. I do not support that relationship, obviously. And I know it is impossible to just leave, but to say I moved around and couldn't stay anywhere for the last nine years and it's because of abusive relationships that only existed for two to three. Shut the up. That is some dumb pushback. That is some dumb cope.

[Savannah Grace]

Also, when I wasn't in those relationships, I would end up going back to take care of my siblings.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, and then you couldn't do it, and then you gave them up. So clearly that didn't work.

[Savannah Grace]

No, I mean, when my. At the time, when our father was working in Fort Worth and we lived in Abilene, I would go and stay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Doesn't even matter. You're getting the government check.

[Savannah Grace]

Live with the kids. No, this was not. This is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then you should have done that.

[Savannah Grace]

Than you should have done, like, in between those abusive relationships, I would have to go take care of my siblings for him. Because you didn't have anybody else to take care of them.

[Caleb Hammer]

What does that have to do with today? That past, like you said you were able to do breadwinner, you haven't. You're not. Now you're milking off of him. He said that specifically. This has nothing to do with anything. You can trauma dump all you want. Has nothing to do with the fact that you are not doing it now. And if you were such a good breadwinner, you would be able to do that now. And I bet your resumes. Because you've left jobs endlessly and you don't know how to curate your resume to the jobs you're applying for. No offense. If someone like you walked into the door, I'd be afraid that you'd take my business down.

[Savannah Grace]

Anyway, for the past six months, I actually had all of my own bills covered by myself.

[Caleb Hammer]

What bills did you have?

[Savannah Grace]

My car loan, my insurance, my phone bill.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so three bills.

[Savannah Grace]

And like, was it a subscription to Netflix and Crunchyroll?

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know about you guys, but my entire social feed has become a health circus. One day it's cottage cheese as a diet plan, the next it's slam olive oil at sunrise. Yesterday I saw someone rub garlic on their feet to balance hormones. What are we doing? Let's give the algorithm a break and leave health advice to, you know, actual professionals. That is where zocdoc, today's sponsor comes in. Zocdoc is a free app and a website where you can find high quality in network doctors and book an appointment instantly. Mental health, skin issues, back pain, whatever's going on. ZocDoc has over 100,000 doctors across every specialty. You can filter by your insurance, nearby locations and even real patient ratings. And get this, appointments typically happen in 24 to 72 hours, sometimes saying day, no more waiting months just to get a hold of cutout dairy. It's what I'd use if I needed to book a doc fast. Stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to Zocdoc.com Caleb to find an instantly book a top rated doctor today. That is Z O C D O C.com Caleb Zocdoc.com Caleb let's get back to the show. All right, real talk. Figuring out what's covered by insurance shouldn't feel like studying for a bar exam. But for most people it totally does. But that's why RO built something genuinely helpful. The Insurance Checker. It is a free tool that tells you which GLP1 medications your insurance might actually cover. No, it doesn't submit anything to your provider and it won't give you the cost, but it will tell you what's covered. And if you need a prior authorization, that's valuable info up front and you don't even have to be a RO member to use it. A few days after submitting your info, you get a detailed report that demystifies all that fine print. And over 500,000 people have already used use ROE to check their coverage. And nearly half of RO members do have insurance coverage for these meds. So go to Ro Co Caleb for your free insurance check that is Ro Co Caleb to see if your insurance covers JLP1s for free. And of course, go to Ro Safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP1 medications. Let's get back to the episode.

[Savannah Grace]

My little sister still uses my Netflix in my crunch.

[Caleb Hammer]

Very good. So like 600amonth again. I, I, again I lost my awards. I apologize. Okay.

[Savannah Grace]

I mean, so that was, that was.

[Caleb Hammer]

A time I want you guys to give me what you think your household financial score is 0 to 10. 0 being the worst, 10 being the best at the same time. Okay, 10 being the best, 0 being the worst. You don't have to go back to school to figure out the scale. Okay. Zero ton. Zero ton. Same time. I'm gonna go. Three, two, one, go. And on go. You're gonna do it same Time. Three, two, one, two, one. Apparently, you did need to go back to school to do it. Ladies and gentlemen, if you want to figure out your financial score, where you stand in the world of finances, where you need to improve, and where you're doing great, take the quiz@caleb hammer.com. it is free. Check it out. And if you don't want to be like a guest that shows up on the show, well, you're gonna need a lot more than this this time. But for this episode. But download the $w the free trial and if you like it, sign up for the annual version to save a lot of money and I will mail you my budget friendly cookbook signed by me, mailed directly to your door. It's a good time. And sign up for dollar wise central if you want to bundle it all together with all of our education for 80% off. Check it out, Dollarwise dot com. Okay. Oh, you did do doordash, though, it looks like. So you were hustling on door dash. How long did you do DoorDash for?

[Savannah Grace]

About three hours before I totaled my car.

[Steve]

It'd be like that sometimes, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you doing good with this conversation? What am I involved in right now?

[Steve]

I hand. I. I had to handle all the insurance stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

Of course you did. She can't do anything. We know that already. Remember when you bit off more than you can chew? You're bragging about taking care of your kids, but then you said you. Your. Your siblings, one of which was 17, by the way, could 100 take care of themselves?

[Savannah Grace]

Oh, she couldn't. Actually, she has.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't care. I don't care.

[Savannah Grace]

She's not.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't care. I do not care. I do not care. Probably abuse, mental health, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't care. I'm sorry. Sake. Oh, I don't care. I'm done with your. You're just. You're the most miserable among us. Yeah. You know, people go through lives and then take that and then go live incredible lives. Yeah, you're just milking it to death and you're laying in it and then using someone else to survive. It's disgusting. Come on. People take that. That horrible traumatic past and they go become the best people in our society.

[Savannah Grace]

I'm trying to.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, you're not. Because you're doing. No, you're not. Because you're doing nothing that would be considered trying. You are doing nothing. You won't even get the subsidized health insurance that takes 10 minutes to get. Then he complained about not having health insurance. You. You are not trying. I don't want to hear it. This is some bull. Southwest Rapid Rewards. Whose card is this? This for Sake?

[Steve]

That's me.

[Caleb Hammer]

I will hold your hand and do victim with you once. You literally try everything that I would suggest and then you fail and it doesn't work. But you haven't tried. So off with that. It's a balance of $5,267.37. The Are you doing?

[Savannah Grace]

Will you sign my lubu?

[Caleb Hammer]

I will burn that.

[Savannah Grace]

Pretty please.

[Caleb Hammer]

La Booboo. Who the are you? Labubus is a new form of gambling. It is a waste of money. You just made a billionaire become much more billionaire. What? His like. The feet on this one is like. He's broken.

[Steve]

He's sitting down.

[Savannah Grace]

It's a sitting labu. He sits not very well, though. Pretty please?

[Caleb Hammer]

Shut the. Dude, this is so stupid. This is so stupid. You got a lot. You got Luffy food thing in the world and the people that get him.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, his name is.

[Caleb Hammer]

What am I doing? Fine. Okay.

[Savannah Grace]

Did you do your initials on the put?

[Caleb Hammer]

There's an actual signature. Thank you, Sake. What are we doing here? So dumb. Great. I'm glad you brought your labubo. You know, waste of money. Someone that doesn't have a job, complains about not being able to afford health insurance, is going out there and gambling with La Boo Boos. How many La Boo Boos do you have?

[Savannah Grace]

Have None. That's not mine.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who's. This is.

[Savannah Grace]

Who's my friends.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is so stupid. What's going on with the Southwest cards guy?

[Steve]

We. I mean, I've had it for a long time. Like several years. And that's kind of been my. My go to for a long time. It's been my go to kind of filter everything through that card.

[Caleb Hammer]

You mean filter everything through that card. What. What does that to you? What does that mean?

[Steve]

Like. Like, I would pay. I'd pay my bills on it and then your bills. Well, and then pay it off after. But it was just like to get through.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? It's maxed out.

[Steve]

Well, sorry.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're right. It's not Max too. You're right. It's not max out. It's over the limit by $267.37. So you're printing our bills on a card that is over the limit? That is accruing interest that we can't pay off to save our fucking life. Oh. Oh, God. That is accruing fees. That is accruing fees. The Producers, they were watching you. They said. You seem surprised by that.

[Steve]

I did say. I did say.

[Caleb Hammer]

You did not know. You probably don't know his finances.

[Savannah Grace]

Over max.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's over maxed. So you becoming financially dependent to someone that can't even manage his own finances. Well, people use less credit cards in Europe, so maybe you will be better off there.

[Savannah Grace]

I. I gave him $3,000 to help pay off some of his cards.

[Caleb Hammer]

How much?

[Savannah Grace]

3,000 from the kid fund from my grant. Yeah, it wasn't for the kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

What car did that go on?

[Steve]

That went on the Amazon and the American Express.

[Caleb Hammer]

But not the Southwest. No. So you purchased $140 on here. You had $189 of fees. Dude, you tit. $117.68 of interest accrued and we got a $368 minimum monthly payment. What the is going on? So really, let's be honest. You stacked up a lot of debt. You. Your life. And now you just want to flee to get away from it. Instead of taking any ownership and beating this down own. Let's be honest. That's what this is really looking like.

[Steve]

No, I mean like we can't leave the country with debt, right? Like we want to pay it off. That's why we're here, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Ding, ding, ding. So I'll say this. Just gonna say, listen, I'm okay with the center left government. I'm okay with the center right government. I like good and nuanced in the middle where you can fly back and forth. A nice little fence it, you know, I like that right up in. But you guys, well, her right now just like people on the far right. Anyone slightly to the left is a communist. Her. She's on the far left. Anyone slightly to the right is a fascist. This is what the Internet is right now. Here's Europe. Right wing governments currently Finland, Italy, Hungary, Croatia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Netherlands, Sweden, Austria, Poland plus Germany. You ain't gonna be happy there, not with the way you view this. Also headed towards the right. Belgium, Romania, potentially France, Spain, and well, Poland definitely just did. It's a shift across the board. Dude, good luck. That's all I'm gonna say. Yeah, we're over by $267 past due. 158. Why are you cast? Dude, you. What. What are we doing? Our. Our. Our. We want to leave the country so we can flee fascism. So we have to pay off debt in order to do that. But we're past due. Please make that make sense to me. For me.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

You need help with that one?

[Steve]

Well, just had bills that need to be paid.

[Caleb Hammer]

So this is a bill that needs to be paid.

[Steve]

Yeah. And I mean, I pay that bill the minimum monthly.

[Caleb Hammer]

You didn't pay that bill. Well, many times this year. You have $258 of fees this year so far on this card. You.

[Steve]

I have it set to how to pay now, but.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, congratulations. Right before he came on the show where his finances will be exposed, he pushed the button. That means nothing. I'm talking about what you did this year. Multiple late fees.

[Steve]

Sure. Well, before, like, I didn't have it on autopay because I was. I would often not have enough money in my account to auto pay. So I And like, make sure all. Everything was covered. So I turned the auto pay off and, you know, I would miss it by a day and then pay it off.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is all of this new to you? Do you know any of this?

[Savannah Grace]

No, I didn't know anything about this card because this isn't one of the cards that I hope pay off.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, what do you think? Because this is. And the fact that the only reason he ever paid off cards was you bringing in some money. What the do you think of this? This is insane. You know how many late fees he's had this year? Many. This is crazy. Just on one card alone, then. 676 hours of interest accrued. If a late fee is 40 bucks, minus the annual membership fee of 149. Great. Divided by 40. He's had about three late fees this year so far, so about a third of the year.

[Savannah Grace]

Is that the card that you put the movers on?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Savannah Grace]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Aren't you moving your own dude?

[Steve]

No, we moved her.

[Caleb Hammer]

Aren't you moving her, dude?

[Steve]

Well, we got. It was part of the.

[Caleb Hammer]

You get the friends, you buy them pizza. That's a move.

[Steve]

Sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

But part.

[Steve]

Part of the grant was pays partially for moving expenses. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

You put it on your credit card. That is over the limit. That is having three late fees this year and accruing interest like none other.

[Steve]

Well, I had to get.

[Savannah Grace]

We.

[Steve]

We had to get the reimbursement for it.

[Savannah Grace]

It.

[Steve]

So.

[Caleb Hammer]

And the card is still over the limit, so clearly we did not use it appropriately.

[Steve]

Yeah, I. I put the movers on that card and then paid. I got the reimbursement for it, and then the reimbursement just didn't end up getting onto the card.

[Caleb Hammer]

So $140 also charged for MicroSyst365. Why the would that be on a card that is over the limit that is beyond maxed out, that we can't pay off, that we're paying late constantly and is accruing interest. Why would you have that subscription on this card? Card? What the.

[Steve]

I mean, it's yearly. I just like forgot to move it onto the other card. But I mean I have all my other subscriptions on my. On my debit and stuff, but I just.

[Caleb Hammer]

We'll see about that. Listen, you can use the fizz card. It's a debit card that builds credit so it like works like a debit card, but it is in the world of credit cards, so it is great. And I'll get you a course career certification so you can at least boost your resume and try to get into a job. But I would love that.

[Savannah Grace]

Thank you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Our market unemployment rate borderline across Europe is substantially higher. Mostly yes, you have pockets here and there that are lower. But I don't know, guys.

[Savannah Grace]

I mean, Europe's not set in stone, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, we're talking like Indonesia next. Like the dude just gave a very concerned face when you said that.

[Steve]

What do you mean by that?

[Savannah Grace]

Well, I thought we were talking about New Zealand.

[Steve]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know much about their economy, so I can't actually speak on that. I love getting into the geopolitics and economics of Europe because it's like, like do what they did, do the opposite and you'll be successful.

[Steve]

We learned a lot about it from our friend. She. She also wants to move to New Zealand and she was telling us all about it and it sounds really great place to be, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, probably if you can afford to live there. New Zealand's hyper expensive, is it not? Because it's kind of, you know.

[Steve]

Yeah, like the import a lot of pretty expensive and they have a lot of. They have a lot of restrict like environmental restrictions. So like shipping stuff. There is more expensive and things because there's a lot more taxes and things like that for like environmental reasons on. On shipping.

[Caleb Hammer]

All right, so then if that's the case, I've brought in Ms. Valeria or Mrs. Actually Valeria. She is our head of HR. She's not on camera, but she worked in New Zealand and she's an hr. So like if that's. If this is the big plan to escape life. I don't know, man. From what I've heard, Valeria, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it's kind of hard to immigrate. There is a.

[Valeria]

Not from. From what I know, yes, it is. I mean definitely to, like, help move over there, you probably need to have a job. The laws have changed a lot, and it's just.

[Caleb Hammer]

Just.

[Valeria]

It's a lot more difficult to move.

[Caleb Hammer]

She's also jobless, and they're not married.

[Valeria]

Okay. Okay. That would make it that much more difficult. And the job piece aside with, you know, with you not having a job, and I don't know what your guys's total, like, income situation is, but the cost of living in New Zealand is. Is very, very high.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Valeria]

I want to, like, in the last couple of maybe five, 10 years even, they've had, like, a severe housing affordability crisis.

[Caleb Hammer]

But they want to run from fascism, is their argument. The big argument is we want to run from fascism. Well, that's her big argument.

[Savannah Grace]

Huh?

[Caleb Hammer]

The IT job market right now in New Zealand, there's, like, a thousand job openings right now in the entire country. Tax sector is not very strong right now. It's big in New Zealand. It's actually their third largest export for it. It's worth. But there's, like, a thousand openings right now. You're competing against New Zealanders. Chinese, right?

[Valeria]

Yeah, I know. Yes, there is. Yes, there's definitely a heavy population.

[Savannah Grace]

Over 10 years of IT experience, and.

[Caleb Hammer]

No one else does in this competitive tech world we live in right now. Hey, how's the tech world right now, Valeria? Because we're in it. Yeah.

[Valeria]

I mean, it's definitely rough around here, and we have more of a tech industry here in, like, the US And Austin, you know, you think San Fran, whatnot. New Zealand is smaller, even more competitive.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Valeria]

I mean, you have this constant, like, immigration between Australians coming to New Zealand, Kiwis moving to Australia, and like, Caleb did say there is. Yeah, there's definitely a large population.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why'd you move back? Huh? Why'd you move back?

[Savannah Grace]

Why'd you.

[Valeria]

Why did I move back here to Patriotsville, New Zealand? Because it was actually very unaffordable.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Valeria]

To, you know, the. The quality of life that I have here. Especially if you're looking at, like, a. I mean, I would want to live in a larger city like Auckland. Living anywhere else, you know, your job opportunities go significantly down. But living somewhere like Auckland, I want to say the average housing cost is probably like, over a million dollars, and.

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't work, so. Hey, would you hire her? The longest job she's ever had in her nine years of adulthood is a year and three months, and she bounces between jobs every second of her life. No. Just saying. All right, thank you, Valeria.

[Savannah Grace]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

W's. In chat for Valeria, her first voice on camera experience.

[Steve]

Thank you, Valeria.

[Caleb Hammer]

Thank you. I really appreciate, appreciate it. So that's that. New Zealand seems a little off the table. And on her way out, by the way, she said, yeah, unless you're making $150,000 or and have a lot of money in the bank, the standard of living there is going to be pretty rough. We know if you're on the show, a lot of money in the bank is not an option. In fact, we've only gone over one credit card and it was over the limit. Okay, wonderful. Let's keep going. 1. By the way, I'm curious and I would like to ask you this, especially since you don't really know the household finances. Why would. You guys aren't married. It's okay nine months in, but you do live together. We know what comes in $5,000 a month, what was spent last month in the household.

[Steve]

More than that.

[Caleb Hammer]

I asked her. Savannah Grace, 7,000. Pretty close. 6,782. How the are we getting to New Zealand? Spending thousand seven hundred dollars more than we make. How's that possible? How are we going to do anything? Believe it or not, even in a robust social welfare system, if you spend more than you make, you're still not going to do well. I love the Netherlands, by the way. If I would move somewhere, it's the Netherlands, but only on capital gains. I would not live there as an income tax individual.

[Steve]

We're pretty far from, from capital gains living, I'd say.

[Caleb Hammer]

I was talking about me.

[Steve]

Oh, well, I know you're, you're, I.

[Caleb Hammer]

Mean, how the are you gonna go?

[Steve]

Okay, I'm definitely not gonna be able to pull that off.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, yeah, you have $2,000 in retirement. You're almost 30, so you're dramatically behind. Yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're done. Chase Card, Amazon. Chase Card. Oh, this is the one we paid off. Okay, great. Interest occurred last month. Glad you used that money towards a card that is still creating interest. He's purchasing on it. Oh, no, you more you dick. No, you're a dick for this. Dude. He had a late fee. Had a late fee. Right after you paid it off. Right after you paid it off with the money you got from that grant. He had a late fee. Thoughts? Cause that pisses me off. That pisses me off real quick. Hi, listen here. Financial audit. I've curated the exact resources and tools I personally use or would use if I was in certain situations. So take advantage of These offers in the resources section in the description below. The first one, I've moved my investments to Webull. Do the same and transfer to my investing app of choice and you get cash bonuses of $200 all the way up to to $30,000 depending on initial funding amount and up to 8.1% APY on your money and up to 3.5 matches for your IRA. And then number two, a great new checking account that I've switched over from Sofi and it's called chime. Get that $550 bonus when you sign up with direct deposit and get almost 4% on your money just sitting there. And then 3, 3. Automate your investing with acorns. Usually sign up incentives are only five bucks but you get $20 with my link. 4. You can increase your income and boost your resume with a course career certification. Five, if T mobile is good in your area, switch to Helium and get a literal zero dollar a month phone plan for the same exact service. But most importantly, go get your free Hammer Financial score and see where you stand in the world of finances. Take the [e-mail] you will not regret any of these. Change your life today.

[Savannah Grace]

I'm just hearing about that now. I didn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Does that not enrage you?

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, it does actually, a little bit. Because honestly, like he's always telling me that we like are in this together and then now I'm finding out that I've been kept in the dark a little bit. I didn't know that he was spending on those until I applied for the show for him. And I definitely didn't know about any of the late fees.

[Steve]

I mean. Yeah, but I feel like, like, I feel like we, we, we had to spend on the credit because we, you know, didn't have the cash available to pay other bills.

[Savannah Grace]

I was asking like, are you sure we can go out and do this? Are you sure we can get this thing? Or are you sure? And you would always say.

[Steve]

Yeah, I mean I don't, I, I, I don't want to say no.

[Caleb Hammer]

You got called on your buddy and you have no cope, you can't even cope about it. You have no rebuttal. You got called on your, you got discovered the, you're doing the spending, you're doing the late fees, you're accruing the interest you're accruing on a card that she used her very limited funds to pay off to help you.

[Savannah Grace]

You and I actually we decided to pay off the cards instead of some of my personal debts that would Actually prevent me from being able to get housing if we ever broke up.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is the status of this relationship right now? How are we feeling? Cause this is, like, backstabby. How are we feeling?

[Steve]

I mean, I feel like we're doing pretty good.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's because he's getting. He wouldn't be saying this.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little scared.

[Caleb Hammer]

Reasonable. Thank you. Why. Why are you living in a world of delusion just because you're getting laid?

[Steve]

I'm. I mean, it's not that. I just, like. I want to. I want to, like, provide for her, and I feel guilty.

[Caleb Hammer]

What?

[Steve]

You just.

[Caleb Hammer]

You didn't moaned at the beginning about how she's taking advantage of you. Now you're saying I want to provide from her how the tune changes immediately.

[Steve]

I mean, I didn't complain.

[Caleb Hammer]

When it becomes your.

[Steve]

I didn't necessarily complain that I was providing for her.

[Caleb Hammer]

I just said, know that she's taking advantage of.

[Steve]

I said. I said that she needed to do more to help out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Play it back.

[Steve]

I mean, I am worried that you're taking advantage of me a little bit.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, it was just played back, big guy. No, you called her out thinking, I feel like sometimes you're taking advantage of me. That is what you said. And now you're getting called in your. The tune changes. Oh, I'm just trying to be a good. A good man taking care of her. I just want to be a provider. Now that you're called out. Yeah. The first part of this conversation was definitely bullying her a bit. Absolutely. Justifiably. I would say now you're getting called out and your tune changes.

[Steve]

I mean, I. That's just my reason. I mean, I. I just. I. I don't want to say. No, I don't want to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Thoughts on his reason?

[Steve]

I don't want to be.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you think?

[Savannah Grace]

Like, I. I did feel like he was taking care of me, but I. I thought that we were in a partnership with each other, and I don't know.

[Steve]

We are. I've been saying that.

[Caleb Hammer]

What a mess. Pull up your Amazon. Are you guys in the same Amazon together?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you have an iPhone?

[Steve]

No.

[Savannah Grace]

I have an iPhone.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can you bring up the Amazon then?

[Savannah Grace]

I don't know.

[Steve]

Well, these I don't think she sees because we're. We're on, like, the. The family thing. So, like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, go ahead and pull yourself. Okay. If you can start a screen recording, that'd be great. Okay.

[Steve]

Here you go.

[Caleb Hammer]

All right, so here's the Amazon. What do we got? We got G fuel hype sauce. Now let's get that twice. Let's get that twice. By the way, after she pays off the card so that we can have a late fiana and have interested crew. Interesting strategy of love. Phillips laxative. Okay, buddy had some backed up poo. Fair enough. Wouldn't necessarily put it in a car. Wouldn't necessarily have it put it on a card that we can't pay off after a girlfriend pays it off. 3 prong adapter. Noka boost. GP20 ultra safe jump starter. Wireless Apple carplay screen. Oh, critical. Critical for life. Yeah, it was a backlit keyboard. A very gay one, so it's probably hers.

[Steve]

Yeah, she I G fuel. She has a.

[Caleb Hammer]

She needs usable earplugs because there's a woman in the house. Am I right? Yeah. Am I right, guys?

[Savannah Grace]

Those are for me. Those are for me because I get overstimulated really easily in loud places.

[Caleb Hammer]

You ruined it.

[Steve]

And the. And the keyboard is because I have a weird keyboard that she can't use.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Steve]

So I got her a keyboard that.

[Savannah Grace]

She can use and yeah, that's. Oh God.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, if it isn't. If it isn't this. If it isn't $141 of late fees is here year so far. Meaning. Oh, that's about four missed payments this year so far. Hey, he's missed half his payments, including the payment after he spent money after youing paid it off.

[Savannah Grace]

He told me they were on auto pay you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why would you say that? Lies.

[Steve]

I mean, they are now. Oh, off.

[Caleb Hammer]

Right before coming on show means nothing. Listen, the balance is small. You just have to pay it on time. You tit. It's 146.62 minimum T payment. $73. Stupid. So stupid. Also, there's gunk on your phone. On the screen.

[Steve]

On my phone. Yeah, my hands are really sweaty. Sorry, dude.

[Caleb Hammer]

It wasn't sweat. It was like. It was. It was like. It was just crusty. Blue Cash preferred card. Whose is this?

[Steve]

That's me. Also, all their credit cards are mine.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, okay, great. Blue Cash. We got a balance of 394. Again, it's not like substantial, especially at your income level. The minimum payment of $40, 299. 70 of purchases. But not only that, 95ft. Fees. $95 to fees. Hey, by the way, three cards we've talked about so far. Three. All have had fees. All have had fees. This is what you're attaching yourself to. This is the person you're dependent on.

[Savannah Grace]

Thoughts Well, I thought that we had already discussed all of the financial stuff and that it was. That I was in the loop.

[Caleb Hammer]

So he lied.

[Steve]

No, I mean. I mean, I'm stabilized now, but, like, earlier in the year.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no. This is your most recent statements. I will not. Not hear it. I. I am sick. I am sick and tired of the guys. I'm so good. I'm stabilized. I did a little budget for a week and a half before coming on the show that I knew I was going to come on. That ripped me into pieces, into finances. You do that for a diet show. You do that for a finance show. You do that for a car repair show. You do that for any show where you're improving something. No, that means nothing. No, no.

[Steve]

I just got. I got laid off from my last job, buddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is your most recent statements. When did you get laid off?

[Steve]

March.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so that. Then. No. You're having missed payments last month, which was not Mark or last March.

[Steve]

Sorry.

[Caleb Hammer]

So it wasn't this year?

[Steve]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm gonna lose my mind with this episode. What the does that have to do with anything?

[Steve]

I mean, I just had, like. I had catching up to do. I had stuff to pay, you know, and what does that have to do.

[Caleb Hammer]

With anything right now?

[Steve]

I mean, like. Like I said earlier, like, stuff that happened before we got together has an effect on now. So. Like that.

[Caleb Hammer]

So that's gonna be your cope until the end of your life? Guys, stuff that happened in life hasn't affected now. Equals. It's okay that bad stuff is happening now. And I'm gonna use the past as a. As an. As an excuse. As a cope. As a get out of jail.

[Steve]

Well, I mean, God, no. I mean, you know, lessons.

[Caleb Hammer]

Right. But you didn't. You're having late fees last month. Golf. Learn lessons. Where's your lessons learned? I'm not seeing lessons learned. You. If you didn't have late fees, maybe we could have that conversation.

[Steve]

It's a work in progress, you know?

[Caleb Hammer]

Nope, not seeing work nor progress.

[Savannah Grace]

I mean, we have had conversations about how I'm scared to be financially dependent on him right now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you desperately, truly are, because you're not getting a job to save your life or stick at one. And not only that, I mean, you won't get on health insurance, so good luck if you ever have to go to the hospital. But not only that. How do those conversations go then? Walk me through that conversation, please.

[Savannah Grace]

Usually I just. I mentioned that I'm having this fear, this anxiety, and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I'm sure he Hears that in every conversation with you.

[Savannah Grace]

But yeah, yeah, we talk about it and you know, he does what he can to console me. We look at stuff together.

[Caleb Hammer]

But I, I, how does it go from your perspective?

[Steve]

I mean, we do, we do talk stuff over and go over stuff and you know, I try to keep her in loop as much as possible, but I.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like these productive conversations. I mean, doesn't seem like it's led to anywhere. In fact, she's learning about a lot of your financial stuff right now.

[Steve]

Yeah, and I mean like we, we talk about stuff and then apparently you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Spent a ton of money building on a recording booth in your house to become a voiceover actor.

[Steve]

Yeah, I mean, please give me your voiceover. I mean, I haven't like, I haven't been in any parts yet, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, I'm giving you a part. I'm hiring you right now. Congratulations. You are selling a budget friendly cookbook. Sure, sell it in a dramatic fashion.

[Steve]

Dramatic, okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dramatic fashion.

[Steve]

Like. Oh, okay, well wait, no, well, I gotta get more like more information about what you want, right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. I want it to make money by you selling it.

[Steve]

Okay, this is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, you're fired. This is your normal voice. Give me a different voice.

[Steve]

Caleb Hammer, budget friendly cookbook.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Okay.

[Steve]

Available now.

[Caleb Hammer]

How much did you spend on that?

[Steve]

That I don't know, a few hundred dollars on the like, so I had like I'd rip the closet out and put the, you know, the foam up and that kind of stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

What a seapot. Cuz that's what we spent $299.70 on this card for.

[Steve]

That was for a friend's birthday that I was hop hot. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

You paid for the full thing?

[Steve]

I, I paid for half and then my friend sent me cash for half and then that half didn't make it onto the card.

[Caleb Hammer]

Priorities of where money goes in your situation where you make substantial income, it's just going down. You have three years of acting classes.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh geez. Okay. Synchrony. Well, also yours. So CareCredit. CareCredit is this. Dogs, cats, dentist. So caring. Care credit credit. $684.40 with the, what's the normal minimum monthly payment?

[Steve]

It, it has a $30 minimum monthly payment, but I'm paying.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's the interest rate?

[Steve]

26%.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. I'm just gathering the loans for now.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah. But right now it's got, you know, the six month interest free. So I, I paid. The last payment I made was $106.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is it deferred interest? Yeah, deferred interest is a current.

[Steve]

Yeah, but you know what that means. Yeah, but I mean, the goal obviously.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is what is the third interest?

[Steve]

It's like it accrues and then if you don't pay it off by the.

[Caleb Hammer]

And that is happening on the secure card.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

100. You know for a fact?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, then what you're doing is. Okay.

[Steve]

And I'm paying 106 on every month, so that way I can have it paid off by the time.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, I'll make that as a note. 106 bucks is needed to pay that off in time. Okay. So dental work was done on this?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, fair enough. Huh.

[Savannah Grace]

Had to get a root canal.

[Steve]

Who, me?

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, I got blessed with my teeth. Really lucky.

[Caleb Hammer]

Smoke cigarettes, don't you?

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, I vape.

[Steve]

I knew I told you he wouldn't like that.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Indigo. What's this? What is Indigo?

[Savannah Grace]

That is debt from my apartment that we actually use the money.

[Caleb Hammer]

And I bet if we talk about it, it'll be a trauma. Trauma apartment. So we're not going to. Okay, well, you owe at this apartment, this trauma apartment, a thousand $455.76. Okay. When was this? March of this year.

[Steve]

This is the apartment that she left to move in with me.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Savannah Grace]

I couldn't afford to.

[Caleb Hammer]

I know we're gonna get into something that's about to annoy the. Out of me. Me. Why'd you leave this apartment?

[Savannah Grace]

I could not afford to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, wow. It wasn't actually trauma.

[Savannah Grace]

Because of what happened with me and my sisters. I lost my job.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you lost your job?

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, having to take care of them because they were sick all the time being kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

I got that. Except obviously they have places to go because they're going there now. One's gonna live with their literal mom.

[Savannah Grace]

No, at the time, they couldn't live with them.

[Caleb Hammer]

Them. Hold on. I got that. That's fine. Why did you lose the apartment though?

[Savannah Grace]

Because I couldn't afford to pay for it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because you lost a job. Why'd you lose a job?

[Savannah Grace]

Because I didn't have anybody else to watch my.

[Caleb Hammer]

The job.

[Savannah Grace]

Texas Health and Human Resource.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, great. Okay. How many hours a week were you working in that job?

[Savannah Grace]

40.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was your pay?

[Savannah Grace]

3,325Amonth.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. And you were getting. But you're getting the grants for the kids anyway.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, but I just.

[Caleb Hammer]

So that would have helped.

[Savannah Grace]

It wasn't enough.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, not enough. But you could have had a part time job. You said this.

[Savannah Grace]

I was also door dashing a 17.

[Caleb Hammer]

Year old that has independence now and is moving in with other family. Right. Because they're 18. What's wrong with them?

[Savannah Grace]

She has just a lot of learning and mental disability.

[Caleb Hammer]

So she could have been okay because she was taking care of the younger one?

[Savannah Grace]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

So it's that.

[Savannah Grace]

It's that they could not have been left alone at all. No offense, but they couldn't be left alone. And I didn't have anybody in my life that could, which I get that.

[Caleb Hammer]

And I understand why you would empathetically want to take care of them. But is it not more of a disservice to put them in the household of someone that can't even take care of themselves? If we're being completely candid and honest.

[Steve]

That was my argument about it. When we talk about it, like, because, you know, I. When, when things were getting rough, I would have to be like, hey, I hate to say this, but, you know, maybe consider that, you know, you can't handle this.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, and you just opened a Costco card two weeks ago.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is that in the stack?

[Steve]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

How. Pull it up. Why the are we opening a brand new credit card if our goal is to pay off debt so we can flee to another country free?

[Savannah Grace]

At the time, I think it was like they had some sort of special going where if you open the card.

[Caleb Hammer]

You get special going.

[Savannah Grace]

You get like, the membership is free, basically.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who gives a go to he Damn B.

[Steve]

We don't have HB go to Walmart.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, great. We immediately. Okay, you open it, you get the benefit. Fantastic. And that's where you leave it, right? Nope. We immediately boosted it up to $1,290.81. Great strategy, guys. We're really getting off of this. Oh, it's up from 563. All right. JA Energy.

[Savannah Grace]

That's also mine from my apartment.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yep, that makes sense.

[Savannah Grace]

Again, I deferred paying those to pay the credit cards for him.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Savannah Grace]

Because those won't have, like, they don't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Have interest on them versus they're on your collections. They're you. They're destroying you.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, a little bit, but.

[Caleb Hammer]

And also, it's his interest, not yours. You're nine months into a relationship. You're not even close to married.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, but at the time, like, I didn't need any big purchases or anything like that, so I thought it would be okay until I got a job and I'd be able to easily pay them back off. Well. And I just. I've never been without a. I'll look at your resume.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'll look at your resume in the post show. Okay. You have your resume if I ask for it?

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Good. I'll look at it in the post show. We'll see. $355 is owed on that. Oh, my goodness. Now, what do we owe $4,762 to at Abilene Teachers Federal Credit Union.

[Savannah Grace]

That's my car. That's my car loan.

[Caleb Hammer]

The one that you bragged about paying.

[Savannah Grace]

The one that I just totaled. I have Gap. Yes, but steps for that might be in breach of my GAP insurance.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Savannah Grace]

Apparently, my deductible on my insurance is too high. I didn't know it. I didn't know it at the time. Yeah, I found that out right after the crash. I actually called my bank and talked to them about it.

[Caleb Hammer]

It. All right, well, we have $4,762.66. That's a 13.5% interest rate. You could have paid this, too. $456 is owed on a monthly basis, right?

[Savannah Grace]

On the car. No, that's $263 a month. On the.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's what you bragged about paying. Okay. $262 a month credit card. It's lower than his top credit card payment. His first credit card we talked about. This is the fourth car you totaled. We shouldn't let you be driving. Right.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, it's.

[Steve]

It's more than that, right?

[Savannah Grace]

No, it's four.

[Steve]

Oh, okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Germany. You can have her. He has the blue eyes to go four cars.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the is wrong with you?

[Savannah Grace]

Well, I think it's undiagnosed adhd, but.

[Caleb Hammer]

Ladies and gentlemen, here she is.

[Steve]

Women driving, am I right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Go. Dude, you are the. You are the definition of Reddit and Tik Tok. You are everyone on there combined into one. I'm not even joking. You literally are.

[Savannah Grace]

Where's my award?

[Caleb Hammer]

Your award is you will never be a productive member of society and you could cry about it forever. That's your reward. And our punishment.

[Steve]

Brain rot. Reward.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's not brain rot. Permanent. It's not brain rot. It's permanent victimhood. We all love a good brain, Rod. That's. Oh, good. No, this is a mortgage.

[Steve]

Mortgage?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. You have a mortgage. Oh, so you're going to sell the house to move?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Probably 6.5% interest. That sounds about right. So you probably got in the last couple years, right?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

$285,363.23 is owed. Okay. Minimum payment, $2,861.25.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Fair enough. Okay, good. You have an what's it worth?

[Steve]

I don't know the what it's worth, but I know I have, like, a $10,000 equity position in the.

[Caleb Hammer]

In the home, so it's worth 295,000. Yeah, I'm getting some sad head shakes in the back of the room.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Valid.

[Steve]

That's fair.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so you will lose money if you sell.

[Steve]

Yeah, probably.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you got it with your ex.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's great. Yeah, very.

[Steve]

That was what I was.

[Caleb Hammer]

You guys do relationships so well.

[Steve]

You guys, I got cheated on. That wasn't my first fault, but I will. But granted, getting a house with someone you're not married to, maybe not a smart idea.

[Caleb Hammer]

He took accountability for something.

[Steve]

With no emergency fund.

[Caleb Hammer]

We did it, ladies and gentlemen. Thousand dollars in this checking account. Netflix, Hawaiian Bros. Taco Bueno, Hulu, Amazon, Chick Fil A Puff World, Smoke Shop. Going in, getting some wing. Stop venmoing out $29. Michael stores. Ven out $4.75. Getting some subway. Ven went out $10. Apple bill. Puff World, Smoke Shop, Apple Bill. What the are we doing? Whose checking account?

[Savannah Grace]

What's mine?

[Caleb Hammer]

The are you doing? You're killing her. Wait, you're spending money you literally don't even come close to having?

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Steve]

She was spending.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah, that was after insane. I had paid off my bills for six months. I thought that would be enough for me to find a job, and I just kind of had a little extra left over.

[Steve]

I tried to tell her that she wouldn't find a job all that fast.

[Caleb Hammer]

But what are you guys gonna do if you get pregnant and you're in Texas now?

[Savannah Grace]

She has a vasectomy.

[Steve]

I got a vasectomy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well done.

[Steve]

Absolutely not.

[Savannah Grace]

I don't want kids.

[Steve]

I don't want kids. No, my. Cause I don't think that. I mean, obviously in my situation, it's not right to bring a child into the world when I can. I can't take care of myself. Right? Or us as a couple.

[Caleb Hammer]

Adult, but sure. Yes, I agree. $197 in this checking account. This is yours.

[Steve]

Yep.

[Caleb Hammer]

Bombshells. Hto a re two hands. Poke whiskey cake. Oh, this is all. All while we have credit card debt and late fees.

[Savannah Grace]

You.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're your late fees or not. I had to pay bill. Dude, you're going out to eat every second of your life. Camera. Look at this. Just look at this. This is ridiculous. Shut the up, victim. Amazon Poppies or Popeyes? Umi Sushi Grill, Tesla Life ATM, which are $143 transaction fee. Transaction fee. Texas foe Samanoosi, we all love some Salmanusi Yama Sushi and Sheba Hut. Cheddar Hollows. Water burger, Texas Faux House. McDonald's, Wendy's, Taco Bell. I'll take alterations by going and getting some Taco Bell. All out Saloon. Oh, there's more. Water burger, Taco Bell, Sonic Drive in, Chicken Express, Popeyes. Sidecar social. Sidecar social. Open AI is chat, GPT cash app, McDonald's, Amazon world marker world market HTO container store, bull. You. You do not get to claim any victimhood when it comes to those late fees that were happening in this month. You bought a $3,600 Victorian portrait of yourself and your cat.

[Steve]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, you guys are done. There's no hope. You guys are actually broken.

[Steve]

That was. That's probably by far the one of the dumbest things I've ever done.

[Caleb Hammer]

You need to stop going out to eat. You need to stop going out to eat. You need to quit smoking. You need to stop buying dumb things. Moronic.

[Steve]

I tried to get her to stop smoking and it lasted 24 hours.

[Caleb Hammer]

Of course it did. Members account 1600. You're your retirement 2100. This is good luck, guys. Let's see if we can bot to this. But good luck. I mean, just your guys's worldview is broken, especially yours. Like you're gonna be victimhood forever. You're gonna say, oh, but things in the past impact us right now, so we can't do anything. No matter what, there's nothing happening. Then you're like, well, I had to make payments too, so that's why I was late on my credit cards. Then he goes and blows hundreds, if not thousands on going out to eat. What the are we doing? What are we possibly even doing? So stupid. So moronic. I don't understand what kind of life we are trying to live. Live. It is so stupid. Beyond stupid. Going out to eat was $1,323. Couldn't afford your payments off know for a fact, you guys, his minimum payments outside of the mortgage is less than that. Not including the mortgage and putting in $106 for the care credit instead of the 30. Your minimum monthly payments for debts are 890. Now let's put in the mortgage. That is 2861. Utilities, gas, electric, Internet, all combined. Well, how much is that on a monthly basis?

[Steve]

Let's see. Gases, about 60. Internet is 80 72. What was the third one? Sorry.

[Caleb Hammer]

80, 70. Oh, okay. Any other utility?

[Steve]

Gas, electric, water, is about 80. Electric. Electric. On the higher months it's like 300. So I. I just budget for 300.

[Caleb Hammer]

How much in total? Because now you've just thrown out a bunch of things. How much am I budgeting towards utilities?

[Steve]

See, hold on. 300, 380, 460. 520. And then. Yeah, 520.

[Caleb Hammer]

520 for utilities. Kind of crazy. Gas. Vroom, voom. Drive. Drive.

[Steve]

Like $60 a month.

[Caleb Hammer]

And now you don't have any?

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah. And then I. And I work from home three days a week, so I don't have car insurance a lot.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, none for me anymore.

[Steve]

But mine is $50 a month. But I pay it in like one big chunk.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like this phone bill.

[Steve]

Yeah, 80.

[Savannah Grace]

Mine's 50 plus.

[Caleb Hammer]

50.

[Steve]

130 total.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, good. TP fun. Anything else you need to survive? 200. Medical, health care, Co pays. I'm sure you go to a lot of things.

[Steve]

I don't think either of us have any co pays.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Gym.

[Steve]

We don't have a gym.

[Savannah Grace]

We want to budget that in though.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, let's budget in it.

[Steve]

Yeah, we want to have one.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'll put 50 bucks. Okay. Groceries. $600. Use the meal plan. Use the cookbook. Just meal prep. Meal prep. Meal prep. You guys have pet insurances?

[Savannah Grace]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Should you?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Savannah Grace]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

How many of them are healthy and all.

[Steve]

All are healthy. All are healthy. Two are old. Three or not.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, three. What's.

[Steve]

I have three cats. She has two dogs.

[Caleb Hammer]

Which ones?

[Steve]

One of her dogs. One of her dogs is old and one of my cats. Cats is old.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, there we go. So I'm going to go. Let's call it 100 bucks now. Let's call it 120 for pet insurance. There's no way you guys could afford a vet bill. Anything else that needs to be in your. I'll put subscriptions in. 50 bucks. Anything else that needs to be in your budget that I have not taken account?

[Steve]

I don't think so. That sound like everything, do you? I think that's everything. I finished paying off the portrait so that I don't have to.

[Caleb Hammer]

It was a debt.

[Steve]

That's great. Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Needed to survive is $5,531.25. You only bring in 5,000. You fucked. Okay. I mean the reality of this situation is go get a job and I'm going to review your resume in the post show. But if you can bring in a thousand bucks, we can only start chipping away at this stuff. And the bad debt outside of the mortgage itself. Yeah, it's about, about 13,500. You go bring in a thousand bucks a month. We can pay that off in like two years. That's not that bad. Bring in even more. We can pay off a lot quicker. 1, 500amonth. We can pay it off in a year, get a fully funded emergency fund. Then you guys can do whatever the you want. Yeah, but that's what we're doing now. There's already a few things I know we're going to talk about in the post show. 1. Her resume. 3. Okay, this one's actually crazy and I'm not gonna spoil it. And also just, oh, there's so much. Okay, so yeah, let's get a Hammer Financial score. The poacher is gonna be crazy for this one. Spending in a budget. You ever spend 0 out of 10 debt? Oh, we got collections. If we're doing household 0 out of 10 emergency fund, there's like a thousand in savings. 1 out of 10 retirement dramatically behind 1 out of 10 real estate. You don't own a house. Low equity position. So if you're gonna sell today, it would be kind of rough, but I'll give five out of 10 because you can just sit and hold. So you still have that advantage. At least you're in the market. Hammer Financial score rounded up to 1.5 out of 10. Get yours@caleb hammer.com Join Hammer Elite Bolo to come watch the post show in three premium shows posted every single day Monday through Friday. We couldn't talk about this in the episode because one. This will get us demonetized real quick. She was in three separate cults.

[Savannah Grace]

It was just really messed up.

[Caleb Hammer]

It was messed up.

[Savannah Grace]

He just started like and yelling at everybody.

[Caleb Hammer]

That is crazy. Exclusive members content. Click the link in the description or pinned comment below and watch thousands of hours of extra and uncensored content. It's okay not to be perfect with finances. Experian is your big financial friend and here to help. Did you know you can get matched with credit cards on the app? Some cards are labeled no ding decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. Download the Experian app for free today. Applying for no Ding Decline cards won't hurt your credit scores if you aren't initially approved. Initial approval will result in a hard inquiry which may impact your credit scores. Experian.