Predator EXPOSED On Financial Audit

Summary

Financial Audit Podcast Episode: "Predator EXPOSED On Financial Audit"

Host: Caleb Hammer
Guests: Willow (26), Lucas (33)
Date: July 15, 2026

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Main Theme & Purpose

This intense episode of Financial Audit brings Willow and Lucas, a divorced-and-reconciled couple from Lubbock, TX, into the studio for a financial audit. Beneath the financial chaos, the conversation exposes a disturbing history of abuse, DV, trauma, and dysfunctional relationships—giving the episode its provocation title. The main goal: to analyze their financial situation, but the episode rapidly spirals into raw, unfiltered confrontation of personal, ethical, and safety issues at the core of their lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction and Immediate Shocking Revelations

• Within the first minute, Willow references major past allegations regarding Lucas’s behavior toward her, their children, and her young sister ([01:12]-[01:29]).
• Caleb dives immediately into the most serious and traumatic details, setting a candid, no-holds-barred tone.

Memorable Quote

Caleb: "What issues would lead to that insinuation?"
Willow: "My little sister spent the night one time and he stayed in the living room and she walked out to go grab a drink and he was on the couch doing very inappropriate things. How old is she at the time? She was like 7." ([01:12])

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2. Financial Overview: Incomes and Disputes

• Willow: Administrative assistant, salaried at $2,486/month, takes home $1,749 after taxes/benefits ([02:31]-[03:29]).
• Lucas: Irregular income from dog-sitting/pet-sitting ($400/month per Willow; Lucas claims $1,500–$2,000, which Willow disputes).
• Lucas is described as a "stay-at-home dad," but the numbers show Willow is the financial backbone ([04:21]-[06:58]).
• Significant disagreement and communication issues about finances.
• Caleb challenges Lucas on his ignorance and lack of awareness of the household’s financial reality.

Quote

Caleb: “How the f*** is there that big of a disagreement? That’s an insane 400 to 1500.” ([05:56]-[06:02])

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3. Timeline of Relationship & Patterns of Abuse

• Willow and Lucas married young (Willow was 18, Lucas 24) after meeting at Burger King; disturbing power dynamics and “grooming” accusations arise ([08:26]-[10:30]).
• History of police involvement, domestic violence, and divorce. Willow describes incidents including choking while holding a newborn, physical threats, and repeated calls to law enforcement.

Quotes & Events

• Caleb: “You guys worked the same job at 24, 17. What were you doing?”
  Willow: “Burger King.”
  Caleb: “You are the greasiest man I have ever met in my life.” ([09:29]-[09:45])

• Willow: “He choked me while I was holding our newborn baby...” ([01:32], repeated [36:19])

• Willow: “He punched a hole in the wall… accused me of calling him a [slur]…” ([17:00])

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4. Confrontation of Predatory and Abusive Behavior

• A centerpiece of the episode involves returning to the sexual misconduct with Willow’s little sister and Lucas’s subsequent gaslighting, minimization, and defensive behavior.
• Caleb refuses to let Lucas rationalize or minimize these behaviors; makes clear his disapproval and concern for safety.
• Willow repeatedly references Lucas’s lack of accountability, and ongoing defensiveness about the past.

Quotes

Willow: "It's the fact that he, like, defends them. Like, obviously, y' all see the defensiveness. If he would just own up to it and be like, yes, that's what I did. I up great. But it's the defensiveness behind it." ([36:19])

Caleb: "How have we moved past that, guys? I don't know if that's something we move past, especially with kids in the picture." ([40:39])

Lucas: "I was sleeping in the living room. They were sleeping in the room."
Caleb: "You still go to the bathroom as a myself. I know… Nobody sets out in the living room…" ([20:24]-[20:39])

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5. Financial Catastrophe and Family Dysfunction

• Ongoing cycle of financial instability: taking out high APR title loans (36%), living primarily off Willow’s income, reliance on Willow’s grandfather for support ([75:39]-[81:35]).
• Discuss use of government programs (SNAP, SSI for autistic son), yet remain on the edge of eligibility and do not utilize every option available.
• Significant out-of-control spending observed: frequent DoorDash, takeout, Amazon; recurring overdraft and negative balances.
• Willow’s grandfather covers significant debts but expects repayment, totaling $25,000 ([81:23]-[81:40]).
• Disjointed attempts by Lucas to justify absence of employment, lack of effort, or failed job searches.

Caleb’s repeated refrain:

“No job is below you, and you don’t have a job. You have kids. You need to put food on the table.” ([63:09])

“You would have a job at McDonald’s yesterday. You’re not embarrassed nearly enough.” ([81:57])

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6. Why Did Willow Take Lucas Back?

• Willow describes being worn down by Lucas’s persistence, family intimidation, and lack of boundaries. She admits she “applied to the show to get my shit together,” but now feels herself getting re-entangled ([49:30]-[51:27]).
• Willow concedes, “I admit I have got feelings for him again and we've tried to rebuild things, but…you're gonna get your shit together too. I'm not doing both parts in a relationship…” ([44:08]).

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7. Lucas's Excuses for Not Working

• Claims inability to work due to low self-worth, limited education (lack of GED), and feeling jobs are "below" him; expects future as business owner but provides no tangible plan ([63:39]-[64:15]).
• Caleb remains highly skeptical, continuing to challenge his lack of motivation.

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8. Financial Audit Results and Guidance

• Net monthly household income (after adding SSI): $2,743
• Mortgage: $1,200/month
• Utilities: $394/month (plus Internet)
• Essential Debts (not collections): $202 title loan at 36% APR ([79:41])
• Food: On SSI/SNAP, should be near zero (Caleb advocates maximizing benefits)
• Pet care, TP/fund, car insurance (~$202, currently not carried), gas ($250)
• Overwhelmingly negative net worth, recurring overdrafts, and unpaid debts (<$0 bank balances)
• Willow encouraged to get out, secure independence, maximize assistance, and, if possible, let debt fall into collections. Caleb insists, “Kick this out. Get that independence. You can break even.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On past abuse:
  Willow: "He choked me while I was holding our newborn baby." ([36:19])
  Caleb: "How have we moved past that, guys? I don't know if that's something we move past, especially with kids in the picture." ([40:39])

• On Lucas’s defensiveness and accountability:
  Willow: "It's the fact that he, like, defends them… But it's the defensiveness behind it." ([36:19])

• On financial self-sabotage:
  Caleb: "Why would you refinance it to 36%?"
  Willow: "Because I was young and—well, not young, because... whatever... they didn't explain to me." ([80:00]-[80:21])

• On outright financial priorities:
  Caleb: "We can't afford that in our life. We can't. YouTube's free, I'm sorry. Taco Bell. Definitely can't afford that. Energy drinks. Peacock. Not even worth it. What the f*** are we doing?" ([86:24])

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Important Timestamps

• [01:12-01:29] — Willow describes the first major red flag incident involving Lucas and her 7-year-old sister.
• [02:31-06:58] — Financial discrepancies between Willow and Lucas highlighted; income breakdown.
• [08:26-10:30] — Background on their relationship’s origin; introduction of “grooming” narrative.
• [17:00-20:39] — Violent outbursts over “girls trip”; explanations and minimizations of abusive behavior.
• [36:19-40:39] — Willow's account of choking, defensive minimization by Lucas, and Caleb’s intervention.
• [44:08] — Willow explaining why Lucas returned; her attempt to assert boundaries.
• [75:39-81:35] — Willlow/Grandpa’s debts, title loans, and grandpa’s ongoing financial support.

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Raw, confrontational, and at times, darkly comedic.
• Host Caleb oscillates between incredulity, sarcasm, and genuine concern—often calling out Lucas for gaslighting, avoidance, or defensiveness.
• Willow is weary, frustrated, and at points defeated, yet shows resolve in seeking a better life for herself and her children.
• Lucas alternates between deflection, poor excuses, and sporadic admissions of fault, but rarely shows deep self-awareness or ambition.

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Summary of Guidance

• Caleb’s Prescriptive Advice:
  • Willow: Seek independence, maximize benefits/aid, stop supporting Lucas financially or emotionally until he proves full accountability/change.
  • Lucas: Get a job immediately—“no job is beneath you”—and get therapy.
  • As a couple: “You need to kick him to the curb. ...I don’t think you guys are meant together. There’s just too much trauma here.” ([93:55])
  • Let old debts go to collections—focus on financial survival, not credit repair.
  • Budget ruthlessly; end takeout/spending, prioritize essentials.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a financial audit that’s barely about money—drilling into the deep dysfunction, trauma, and cycles of abuse that underlie this couple’s situation. While the audit remains unequivocally bleak, Caleb’s candor and refusal to gloss over their personal failings (especially Lucas’s) produce a raw but forceful call to action for Willow and an unambiguous condemnation of abuse—making this one of the podcast’s most harrowing and memorable episodes.

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Listen only if you’re prepared for intense, real-life trauma woven into financial disaster.

Transcript

[Caleb Hammer]

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[Willow]

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[Caleb Hammer]

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[Willow]

He accused me of calling him a because I said it was weird that he wanted to go on a girls trip. We had issues in the past with issues.

[Caleb Hammer]

What issues would lead to that insinuation?

[Willow]

My little sister spent the night one time and he stayed in the living room and she walked out to go grab a drink and he was on the couch doing very inappropriate things. How old is she at the time? She was like seven. And unfortunately it wasn't the first time that cops were called like and so he has me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why are there other times? No, why are there other times?

[Willow]

He choked me while I was holding our newborn baby. I walked around the side of the bed and I said I swear if you don't stop I'm leaving. And that's when he ended up grabbing my throat.

[Caleb Hammer]

I still had that's when he grabbed the throat.

[Willow]

He threatened to shoot up my parents house.

[Lucas]

Okay. I told her. I was like you can't just tell me no when I'm supposed to be in charge.

[Caleb Hammer]

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[Willow]

Hi, I'm Willow. I'm 26.

[Lucas]

I'm Lucas, I'm 33 and we're from

[Willow]

Lubbock, Texas and this is Financial Audit.

[Caleb Hammer]

Thanks for coming over from Lubbock guys to Austin. I appreciate you. What do you do for Olivia? Let's start with you, Willow. In Lubbock.

[Willow]

I am an administrative assistant.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure, why not? What do you make?

[Willow]

I make 2486.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Listen, I mean Lubbock's an interesting, interesting things out there in west Texas. It's one of those like higher income per capita regions in the country thanks to the good old oil. So like I actually don't know how 24 stretches there. That's curious. How is it, how is it stretching there? Is it stretching?

[Willow]

Not at all.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, how many hours a week are you getting?

[Willow]

So I'm salary. I work 40 hours a week. Eight to five.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, okay. So that's salary just broken down on an hourly basis. Okay, very good. What's your paycheck? Per paycheck? Cycle. What is that cycle?

[Willow]

I get paid monthly and I bring home 1749 monthly.

[Caleb Hammer]

Once a month?

[Lucas]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Once a month. It's a monthly paycheck.

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

And it's 1749.

[Willow]

That's it.

[Lucas]

Well, after.

[Willow]

After insurance.

[Caleb Hammer]

After all the worst insurance ever known is the highest cost insurance ever made in the world.

[Lucas]

She has savings account for the boys. She has her life insurance.

[Caleb Hammer]

How much is going to the savings accounts for the boys and the life insurance that's coming. That's hitting the pre check before.

[Lucas]

Yes, yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Everything putting towards all.

[Lucas]

That's the same thing.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Lucas]

Like I asked, the same thing.

[Caleb Hammer]

She doesn't answer you.

[Willow]

Well, it's like 975 all together. So taxes, insurance, health insurance, life insurance, 401ks, all that kind of fun stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. I mean we should probably only be taking matches at this point. If you're on the show. If you're bad enough to be on the show, we only take matches. And that's if even if you're not even break it even then we're not even doing that. So 17. What?

[Willow]

1749.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Willow]

This is what hits the account.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, Lucas, please make a good amount of money because you ain't going to do that.

[Lucas]

Nope. No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, what do you do?

[Lucas]

I watch dogs. I'm a pet sitter.

[Willow]

He's a stay at home dad.

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

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[Willow]

Deal.

[Caleb Hammer]

I did. They were two sweet boys. They were absolutely wonderful. I almost never interact with people's kids, but you know what? They're out there. They're hanging out with the babysitter. And I played uncle. It was. They were lovely. How old are they?

[Willow]

Seven and four?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. No, they were great. Okay. Yeah. Stay at home, dad. Shit. We can't. No, I mean, we literally just can't. At 1749amonth. What are you making? Dog sitting?

[Lucas]

It depends on a month. I mean, some months, average month. Okay, average. Probably about 1500, 2000.

[Willow]

Sorry.

[Caleb Hammer]

Don't apologize. What the was like. What was that reaction for? Tell me. Give me.

[Willow]

Not at all. Average is about $400 a month. No, I've done the math. I had to do the math to get like, to prepare budgets for y'. All.

[Caleb Hammer]

For y'?

[Lucas]

All?

[Willow]

No, not for y', all, but for the show.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, for us, not for you. Okay.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. How the. Is there that big of a disagreement? That's an insane 400 to 1500.

[Lucas]

Yeah, well, because every once in a while. So I have a regular dog I watch almost every week. I get paid about 140, 180, depending on his hours.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, a week. A month.

[Lucas]

A week. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that gets closer to her number than yours.

[Lucas]

And then I also have another dog we watch and depending on, like this month, we got paid.

[Caleb Hammer]

Stop hitting the table.

[Lucas]

Sorry. We get paid. I got paid 1,000 this month.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. This month?

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

We talked about the average month.

[Lucas]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

She says the average is 4. Did you remember hearing me say the word average?

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you remember me saying the word average?

[Lucas]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

She said 400.

[Lucas]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Where's the disagreement here? Maybe you can tell me.

[Willow]

The average is about 400. He's going based off of his good months. He does not include the months that he does not get any dogs. And the one that he just said that we get about 180 a week. We literally got 110 for this last month. For the entire month, for the one month period.

[Lucas]

So off.

[Willow]

Not the whole month he has the statements.

[Lucas]

I can literally go to cash app and you can see where he cash apps me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, show me. How are you so off? How is someone so off here, like legitimately?

[Willow]

Because he doesn't pay attention to the finances and it's not.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you do.

[Willow]

Yes, I try to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you manage the finances? Are you the finance manager of the

[Willow]

house as of the last like six months? Yes, I have to be. Otherwise.

[Caleb Hammer]

Six months. What happened?

[Willow]

I was a single mom until then.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are they not yours?

[Willow]

Yes, we were married, got divorced.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, well, okay, so six months ago,

[Willow]

what did it look like six months ago? It was a lot better than it was now.

[Lucas]

Me?

[Willow]

No, no, no, no.

[Caleb Hammer]

You said you were a single mom. Why were you a single mom six months ago? You said you got divorced with someone. Did you get back together six months ago?

[Willow]

So six months ago he moved in.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you finally got back in the life of your kids. That's usually a good start.

[Lucas]

Yes, sir.

[Caleb Hammer]

Being a father.

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. How long was he not living with you?

[Willow]

October of 24 is when we got divorced.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, I feel like we gotta go back a little bit. When did you guys meet? Because 7 year old is not like a super young.

[Willow]

We met in 2017. No. Well, October of 2017. Okay. Started dating.

[Caleb Hammer]

Where were you? Like.

[Willow]

Yeah, I was 17 years old.

[Caleb Hammer]

Seventeen, okay. Which makes you 24.

[Lucas]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hey, how are you? Good.

[Lucas]

Why don't you sit right over there? We weren't dating at the time, though.

[Willow]

He purposely made us wait until after

[Caleb Hammer]

he purposefully did the. The grooming technique. Okay, well, I mean, it is the usual.

[Lucas]

It was even. Was even like that. She was in a very toxic relationship. The guy was putting his hands on her and all kinds of stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. At 17.

[Lucas]

Yeah. Well, the guy was 45.

[Caleb Hammer]

Made. You have to wait till like. Listen, in the state of Texas, you wouldn't have been punished anyway. Do we say that's appropriate? No, I wouldn't sign off of that. Be inappropriate. Do I care what people who are young making mistakes do? Not really. It'd be different if you were like 30 or something. Well, we not signing off on it as go do it, but I'm not going to burn the world down either.

[Lucas]

Well, we were like talking. She came to work with makeup on, rubbed her eye, had a black eye. I asked what happened at work.

[Caleb Hammer]

You guys worked the same job at 24? 17. What were you doing?

[Lucas]

Burger King. May I please have the water?

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm sure you look like you just left one today. No, you were in the fryer.

[Lucas]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

You are the greasiest man I have ever met in my life.

[Lucas]

I do have greasy skin, though. I hate it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Blot it. I have greasy skin, too. I blot it. No, blot it.

[Lucas]

Blot it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Blot it.

[Lucas]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, blot it. No, that's not blotting.

[Lucas]

I don't know what you're talking about, man.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, Mark, can you go get it from my desk? Let's get this man some blotting paper. This poor man's skin has never had a break in his life. What the.

[Lucas]

Okay, I sweat a lot, man. Like, over every little thing. I just sweat.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was your job at Burger King as a manager? What was your job at Burger King?

[Willow]

I was supposed to be a manager. He came and took it for me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, but I'm sorry. Okay, listen again. Was I freaking out? Like, it was not appropriate necessarily, but now it's actually getting bad. A 17, 24 year old manager.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Getting together.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you waited till 18 even though you guys were talking about it before? Yes, clearly. Because you made the plan. So you guys. Before 18?

[Lucas]

No.

[Willow]

No, not at all.

[Lucas]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? If you were already planning on it and talking about it, why.

[Lucas]

We weren't talking about getting together.

[Caleb Hammer]

She just said you did. You said you're waiting till 18. You don't wait without talking.

[Lucas]

No. She had the biggest crush on me

[Willow]

two weeks before turning 18 when he admitted that he had feelings for me as well.

[Lucas]

Yes, but.

[Willow]

But that's also when you tried to set me up with. Cause you thought it was better.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, whatever. That's weird. Take this and you just dab around.

[Lucas]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Give this skin its first break in 33 years on that rub. There you go. Around every little corner. Yep, there you go. This shit's gonna be so disgusting. It just takes. It separates the oil.

[Lucas]

Ow.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, do your nose, man. That's. It's the. The shale field itself.

[Lucas]

That is insane.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes. You're disgusting.

[Lucas]

Yeah, that is nasty.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, you're nasty. And you barely even touched it. Your cheeks are still horrendous. But doesn't he actually look almost. Well, it's like it's the first time she got wet in about eight years. Okay, sure. Okay, so see?

[Willow]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is that when you. What? How old are you when you have the kid? No, you would have been 19. So, okay, you guys got together at 18. Did you get married at 18? Does anyone know the answer?

[Willow]

Yes. So we got married in June of 2018.

[Caleb Hammer]

No. So you were 18 in June. When's your birthday?

[Willow]

November.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, okay. So, I mean, yeah, sure, it was a quick marriage overall, but it's not like you did the weird thing where you're just waiting for her to turn 18, and then you just went, no and knocked up. So. Okay. And then pregnancy. Now, what the happened to lead to this divorce where you guys are back together? What is happening here? What the f happened?

[Willow]

I went on vacation with my mom and two sisters. He got mad that he had to stay home with our children because they were young.

[Caleb Hammer]

She can't go on vacation. That led to a divorce. A vacation.

[Willow]

It led to me coming home, my door getting smashed in, cops being called.

[Lucas]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Caleb Hammer]

Pause, pause, Paul, pause. Who smashed in the door? You're getting rock.

[Willow]

He did.

[Lucas]

She locked me out.

[Willow]

I did not lock you out. You had the keys.

[Lucas]

I did not have the keys. I even told you that. I even said, open the door or I'm going to open your door.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm sure you did.

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Willow]

With our two kids sleeping in the other room, as I had literally just. I'm sleeping in bed because you're leaving. You have the car keys. You're getting in the truck.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the is wrong with you? Why'd you bust in the door even if you didn't have the keys? You knock, you call.

[Lucas]

Well, I did knock, and she said she wasn't gonna open it. So I was like, I'm just gonna open the door myself, say, I'm white

[Caleb Hammer]

trash and I'm in trouble.

[Lucas]

I'm white trash and I'm in trouble.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, okay. What happened? Oh, take me back. Take. Sorry, guys. I feel like you probably just jumped ahead because I'm confused and. But that's, like, a legitimately concerning thing. You went on a vacation. He was upset. What was the vacation even?

[Willow]

It was for my little sister's birthday.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's wrong with you, man? Why are you upset at that?

[Lucas]

I wasn't upset about that.

[Caleb Hammer]

So she literally said you were upset about that?

[Lucas]

Well, no. The kids kept asking me where their mom was.

[Caleb Hammer]

I told them why.

[Lucas]

Don't want to tell them because I don't want them getting upset.

[Caleb Hammer]

And so the mom was on a trip. Why would they get upset?

[Lucas]

I mean, I don't know.

[Willow]

It feels like they would feel left

[Caleb Hammer]

out, which maybe make it a learning lesson.

[Willow]

I told my kids when I got back, and they were super excited. They were like, oh, can we see pictures? After we had moved out, and they were super excited. When was this? That was back in October of 2020. 4. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

I think at least the seven year old would understand. I don't think the fucking one year old at the time would have known two year old, what was even happening. So, okay, you're upset. How long was the trip?

[Willow]

Two days, buddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the is actually wrong with you? Where'd you go?

[Willow]

Dallas.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, my goodness. She drove like, what is that, five hours?

[Willow]

Mm, four and a half.

[Caleb Hammer]

You freaked out about that for two days?

[Lucas]

It wasn't even like I freaked out about that.

[Caleb Hammer]

It was just like, what'd you freak out about then? Cause you said it was just telling your kids where she went is what made you upset.

[Lucas]

Well, not only that, like, so growing up, I never had like childhood. I grew up very poor. And so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh my play the sad music.

[Lucas]

And so I don't want to tell the kids, hey, look, like you couldn't go to your aunt's birthday, all that. And so I came distracted.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I also grew up not very well off. I have not busted the door on any of my partners. Continue.

[Lucas]

And so my. Our oldest kept asking, where's mommy? Where's mommy? And I was like, well, she's out of town, like. And he's like, we're doing what? And I was like, well, she just be back in a couple of days.

[Caleb Hammer]

How does that lead to immense rage. I'm so confused.

[Lucas]

And so she gets home and like, I have dinner made. Everything else, everything's going good, and then just. I don't know, it just went bad.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, you tell me. I. This dude, I think he's just trying to under line everything.

[Willow]

So he went to his best friend's house. His best friend hated me from the get go.

[Caleb Hammer]

Him, his best friend?

[Lucas]

Ex best friend.

[Willow]

Yeah, now ex best friend. But so they went over there, they were talking. He was talking crap. And so I was texting him, not knowing any of this, and I'm like, hey, how are the boys doing? Just trying to get an update on the boys. He was ignoring me, would not answer me. Then when we're on our way back, he finally, out of the blue, wants to start acting like everything's normal. Oh, I love you. I hope you had fun. We miss you, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, I'll be home. And so I get home and he did. He wanted to act like everything was normal. Had dinner ready, and I was like, dude, what has been up with the last few days? Like, what have my kids been up to? What? Why are you ignoring me? And now acting like everything's okay. And he said that he didn't want to talk about it. And I said, okay, I'm going to bed. And so then I ended up getting up to. I don't remember what. I was grabbing. I was grabbing something and I just said, hey, it's hurt my feelings that you want to, like, give me the cold shoulder. Obviously you're upset. Just talk to me. And he's like, well, it's bull crap that you were able to go out of town, blah, blah, blah. And I said, I think it would be weird for y' all to come on a girls trip that I've had

[Caleb Hammer]

for the first time. Dad, for a couple days. Let her go. Live a little life. What the is wrong with you?

[Willow]

Sorry, I called it weird. He punched a hole in the wall and accused me.

[Lucas]

Not on purpose. Not on purpose.

[Caleb Hammer]

What does that mean? How do you. I have also never accidentally punched a

[Lucas]

hole in the wall.

[Willow]

He accused me of calling him a. Because I said it was weird that he wanted to go on a girls trip. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Pah, pah, pah, pah, Paul. So to be clear, you said my words.

[Willow]

No, no, it was weird. It would be weird that you wanted to come on a girls trip as a guy and two sons.

[Caleb Hammer]

And he said, and you called me

[Willow]

up and went just like this and punched a hole in the wall.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the.

[Willow]

No.

[Lucas]

So our bathroom wall was real thin tile and there's nothing behind it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Punch it.

[Lucas]

And so I just still punch the hole and the tile just kind of fell. Cuz it was already broken. Well, it was broken before.

[Caleb Hammer]

You still punched it.

[Lucas]

And so why do you think she

[Caleb Hammer]

was calling you a.

[Lucas]

Well, because I was like, we've been to Dallas before to Great Wolf Lodge all together. And I was like, we see also

[Caleb Hammer]

where we went when we were poor. I get it.

[Lucas]

No. Well, I went with her family, her mom, the girls, her.

[Caleb Hammer]

I get it. It's the white trash Kalahari. I know. Continue.

[Lucas]

And so we stayed in a separate room. And so I was like, me and the boys could stay in a separate room. Like, we could have went down there again together.

[Caleb Hammer]

And this story is why he thinks you called him a. Because you guys went to Great Wolf Lodge before. What?

[Lucas]

Well, no, because, like, it'd be weird for you stay in the same room. I was like, we wouldn't be staying in the same room. I was like, we had separate before

[Caleb Hammer]

they were going on a girls trip. It was a girls trip.

[Lucas]

It wasn't even a girl's trip. It was a birthday party. But.

[Caleb Hammer]

But it was a girls trip.

[Willow]

That when my mom brought it up and said, hey, can you come with us? He was like, yeah, go, go have fun. Was all excited for her.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's a girls trip. Do you not know what girls trip is? How does that equal you being a. How connect. That insinuation.

[Lucas]

Cuz she kept saying, it's weird. Why would you want to go? Why would you even want to go and be.

[Caleb Hammer]

She didn't keep saying it. Sounds like she said it like one time.

[Lucas]

No, she said it three times.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, but even still, how do you get off from that? Unless you're a.

[Lucas]

No, because the way she.

[Willow]

Because we had issues in the past with issues that we had already resolved, but then he.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? What? No, no, no context please.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What issues would lead to that insinuation?

[Willow]

My little sister spent the night one time and he stayed in the living room. And she walked out to go grab a drink and he was on the couch doing very inappropriate things. Proceeded to lie to me and my mom about it when she wanted to go home. And so then he tied me, saying it was weird, into the past experience. How old was she at the time? She was like seven. Which granted, he didn't know that she was gonna walk out. Like it was not meant to be like that. But he then tied it back to that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Guys.

[Lucas]

What the.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. 17 year old in the. 7 year old in the house. Why are you in the living room getting all. No, no, no, you don't. No. First of all, I just got a note that literally nobody knew this, by the way, but if a kid is in the house, we don't set up sexual exposures unless there is like a intent to be caught in some way.

[Lucas]

No shit.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no, no, no. Nobody sets out in the living room.

[Lucas]

No, I was sleeping in the living room. They were sleeping in the room.

[Caleb Hammer]

You still go to the bathroom as a Myself. I know, and that's why I said

[Willow]

it was one night. Like she was spending the night. One night eating a.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was he caught doing specifically? Jacking off just full out in the open?

[Lucas]

No, I was under a blanket.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, doesn't sound like it from what's being said.

[Willow]

She said that she saw everything and then he proceeded to call her a liar at the time.

[Lucas]

No, I was.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? Why? Why? If it was a mistake, admit the mistake. If. If you're going full defense and calling her a liar.

[Willow]

Yeah, no, literally did not even tell me and was like, oh, she must feel sick. And that's what she then ended up saying.

[Lucas]

I didn't say that she said that?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Willow]

And he's like, oh yeah, yeah, she must be sick. And went along with it, didn't tell anybody. And then I didn't know.

[Lucas]

I didn't know she seen me. Like at. At the moment. I did not know that she seen me. Cuz I was under a blanket, it was dark, there was no lights on.

[Caleb Hammer]

She said she saw everything.

[Lucas]

And so when she walked in, I stood up to pull my pants up and that's when like what? And I didn't know she said anything, but apparently she walked out cuz it was completely dark.

[Caleb Hammer]

Which we have passed.

[Willow]

But he tied it back.

[Caleb Hammer]

You worked past that?

[Willow]

Well, I'm saying he tied it into.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no, we don't want past that. First of all, can we just appreciate for a moment that. What the is this show? This is a beautiful thing on the Internet. This is absolutely crazy. No one expected this. Can you guys look at the camera real quick? Are you guys real? Are you actors? Did we tell you to say no? Lindsay didn't even know that existed. Are you guys real?

[Lucas]

Yes, real.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the is this show? This is a finance show. But what the is this show? Besides that. This is crazy. You said instances. What do you mean it wasn't singular?

[Willow]

Oh, no.

[Caleb Hammer]

You said instances in the past.

[Willow]

Yeah, no, it was only an instance. But yes, I had brought in it up before because I was still upset about it. And so he tied.

[Caleb Hammer]

I think so. In front of your seven year old sister? Yes.

[Lucas]

It wasn't in front of her.

[Caleb Hammer]

Buddy, no one sets up in the thing where, you know, people could be walking out. Nobody does that. Nobody in the right mind does that. Nobody in their right mind does that. I am a professional. I've never done that. The thrill of public or public sex is the thrill that there might get caught. That's the thing. That's the. With that you would not be doing that. I wouldn't have moved past that. So that's what you thought she was insinuating in that moment?

[Lucas]

Well, kind of.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, kind of. What then? What else? Then?

[Lucas]

No, she kept just saying like, well, why? Why would you want to go? I'm like, because it's fun. It's great with flaws. Like girls trip, dude. Like, why wouldn't somebody want to go have fun at a theme park? At a water park?

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, okay, I mean, something was just typed to me and I just. I guess I have to just ask. I'm gonna be real with you. Your debt is not the same as everyone else's. You've got your Own unique mix of credit cards, maybe some medical bills, personal loans and collections. Whatever. Your interest rates are different, your payments are different, your life is different. So why do you need some one size fits all solution that treats you like a number? Some generic calculator that spits out just pay more as if you hadn't thought of that already. That's what sets PDS ap. They don't just look at your balance and say good luck. They work to understand your specific scenario and help provide alternative solutions to becoming debt free. Whether you're struggling with credit cards, personal loans, collections or medical bills, PDS Debt has customized options designed specifically for you. Not your neighbor. Not some average case study. You. They've helped hundreds of thousands of people get out of debt. And here's the thing. There's no minimum credit score required. They're not here to judge you. They're not here to shame you. They're here to help you get out and help you save more. Pay off your debt faster and start putting money back in your pocket. This is a company that is plus rated by the Better Business Bureau, boasts thousands of five star reviews on Google and holds a five star rating on trustpilot. That legitimately matters. Here's the thing. If I needed help paying off debt, this is exactly where I at. Ollie.

[Willow]

We've got wellness down to a science. From PMS to pregnancy to menopause, our women's wellness line offers science backed support for every stage. No judgment, no shame, none of the stigma. Just supplements designed to meet you wherever you're at. Ollie. Choose science over shame. Find support at a retailer near you or on ollie.com. that's o l l y.com go for help.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're just 30 seconds away from being debt free with PDS debt. Get your free assessment and find the best option for you right [e-mail] hammer that is pdsdebt.com hammer pdsdebt.com hammer get stuck with money. So you download a budgeting app. You start with the classic one Ynab but everyone just delete the because it's way too complicated to use. So you go to everydollar. That's Dave Ramsey, the personal finance guy, right? Well, they're gonna force you to use it his way. That's not very personal. Finances. Rocket Money. They got a lot of commercials but they're owned by Rocket Mortgage. Guess what? They want to sell you in the end. Then there's the new guy on the block. Monarch. Hundreds of millions of dollars of private equity raising so far. But private equity doesn't have the best track record when it comes to private data. That's why I like Dollarwise, built by these people just like you for people just like you. No private equity, no gimmicks. Just the best budgeting app there is. Download it now and start the free trial. Dollarwise.com, link in the description below. What's his relationship with Roblox?

[Willow]

No, that he uses as a bonding experience with our kids. But he does also play when nobody else is home.

[Lucas]

I just played Tycoons past time.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, you know there's other video games.

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Out there.

[Lucas]

Yeah, but we don't own video game systems or anything like that. And so I only have Roblox on my phone and. Well, Minecraft.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait, wait, what the is. Okay, I'm being, I'm being told he will specifically not stream it on TV when you're. When you say to stream it on tv.

[Willow]

Granted, I had no idea Lindsay actually told me that. That was an. Like, when we were talking, I was like, oh yeah, we can get Roblox on her tv. And she's like, well, he doesn't do that. And I was like, no, he's always on his phone doing.

[Lucas]

I didn't know we could do that, honestly, like. But she has my. She catch my phone any given time, and I hand her my phone any given time, like, and I see your phone. Yes, absolutely.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, no, no. Open please.

[Lucas]

Yeah,

[Caleb Hammer]

don't arrest me for touching this.

[Lucas]

Her little sister wanted to chat with me on there, and I didn't even know how to even chat on Roblox. Like, I even told her, like, if you want to message me, you got to message me on text messages because I don't use chat.

[Caleb Hammer]

He does have WhatsApp.

[Lucas]

That was her. She downloaded WhatsApp on my phone for being told.

[Caleb Hammer]

Another one. Let me see if you have that one. Remember, he doesn't have. I've never heard of Zangy. And he doesn't have Telegram either.

[Lucas]

Remember you download WhatsApp when we had to create that account for. What was it you were saying? Get that number? The fake number for. When you were creating WhatsApp.

[Willow]

That's text now. And that was for the Walmart plus

[Caleb Hammer]

because I got locked out. There are no chat communications happening in here.

[Lucas]

Yeah, I, I like, I don't use it whatsoever. She literally downloaded it for Walmart Plus. That's what it was. Because she was creating new accounts on Walmart plus so we can get the Walmart plus deal.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can you open one more Time.

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'll be honest.

[Lucas]

There you go.

[Caleb Hammer]

How old's the sister now?

[Willow]

She is 14. Yeah, I think.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you ever see her?

[Lucas]

Oh, yeah, all the time. And I mean, we all moved.

[Willow]

We did not see each other for a long time until she moved. Like she was okay with seeing him again.

[Caleb Hammer]

And that's what we got too.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Roblox and Minecraft. First two things that pop up.

[Lucas]

Minecraft is I play with her and our oldest. I. I don't like Minecraft. I go in there just to break stuff as they build stuff in Minecraft. I play with both my boys and sometimes her sisters when they online too, with us. But they'll join the game with our kids and me. And then other than that, I just play tycoon. You can go. You can open and go. Look at my recent games on there. I don't mind.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no.

[Willow]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

He's never had those other apps. Now, for what it's worth, they wanted me to see if he had any of the ones that I guess like child CP people use. But I don't think he's smart enough to actually use those extra things. I think they would be in his normal form.

[Lucas]

First of all, I'm very against that. Like, I.

[Caleb Hammer]

How are you? Yeah, most people don't have to say that. Okay, so that's why you divorced them.

[Lucas]

I had a gun held to my head because of it. What the.

[Caleb Hammer]

What?

[Lucas]

Because I went after somebody because of it.

[Caleb Hammer]

What?

[Lucas]

Like, I am very against it. I was molested as a kid. Like, I am very against it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. I mean, and sympathies. That is the usual reoccurring thing though, right? You actually shouldn't have said that because now I'm even believing the thing with the sister even more. Like, again, I do have sympathies for that, but it is usually the people that are the ones who do that stuff happened to them. And that it's actually not. No, wouldn't have said that.

[Lucas]

No. Like, I literally, like, will go and fight and go to prison.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. You have to hyper defend. You're not making it look better by hyper defending. Most people don't have to, guy.

[Lucas]

I'm not hyper defending. I'm just saying.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, okay, so. And then he punched a hole in the wall.

[Willow]

He punched a hole in the wall.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why am I told multiple holes?

[Willow]

Yeah, Yeah. Because he did. He punched the hole in the wall.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that would scare me, especially with kids in the house. If you're punching.

[Willow]

I said you need to chill out. Because if my kids wake up, I'm gonna be pissed. And he didn't want to chill out and went, grabbed the keys. He's like, you know what, I'm done, I'm leaving. And I said, okay, grab the keys. And so I followed him to the front door as he's yelling, screaming, and outside in our front yard, I said, are you. Oh, my bad.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's okay, it's bleeped.

[Willow]

I was like, are you sure you are leaving? And he said, yes, I'm not staying here. I said, okay, I'm letting you know I'm tired. I just got back from Dallas, I'm going to bed. Shut the door, locked the door, walked to my room, and by the time I'm starting to get undressed and ready for bed, my door gates kicked in. And I mean to the point where the door frame fell off.

[Lucas]

What?

[Willow]

Dude couldn't close the door?

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, no. So I called the door locked out. Just kicks the door in. That's not a natural response.

[Willow]

And it wasn't even.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's been locked out on accident before. I call a locksmith.

[Lucas]

I mean, it was.

[Caleb Hammer]

I call people. How quickly of him trying to get in did the door get kicked in?

[Willow]

I mean, literally, it's a 900 square foot house. I walked to the bedroom, so maybe 10 steps.

[Caleb Hammer]

So don't with me. You didn't have the keys then. Don't lie to me to make yourself look good. Yes, I have a car key, but you don't kick the keys. You don't kick the door in within 30 seconds.

[Lucas]

I tried, said, let me in, let me in. She walked out, said, no. You said, you're leaving, I'm letting you in.

[Caleb Hammer]

I said, so you think the appropriate response there is to kick the door in? Even still after I said that, yes,

[Lucas]

I was dumb and I made mistakes. Like, yeah. And I've learned from mistakes.

[Caleb Hammer]

And I would hope so because so far what we have is in front of a kid and not in front

[Willow]

of a kid being walked out on

[Caleb Hammer]

whatever, setting yourself up for it. And two, knocking the door in in

[Willow]

a DV type situation to which then cops had to arrest him.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh my. Okay, so you broke down the door. He broke down the door. And you called the cops immediately.

[Willow]

I told him, I said, I swear, if you take another step towards me, I'm calling the cops. Had them doubt. And he did. He wanted to start coming at me and what, what are you doing?

[Caleb Hammer]

She said, no.

[Willow]

And so I did. I called the cops and I was like, I need an officer out here now I'm genuinely scared for my life,

[Caleb Hammer]

and I'm being told he was throwing things. Was he throwing things?

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was he throwing?

[Willow]

He threw my purse that was set on the table from my vacation that I had just gotten back from.

[Caleb Hammer]

Lucas, what did he. Where. Where did he throw it?

[Willow]

Towards me.

[Lucas]

No, not towards you. Towards the room.

[Willow]

No, which is where I was standing. I was standing in the doorway of our boys's room. So you could not get to the boys because you said that you were going to take the boys. And I said, no, my boys don't need to see you like this. Don't take another step towards me. And you wanted to take a step towards me and throw things at me. And that's when I called the cops. And the cops told me that they were about 30 seconds away and to get out of the way because they were going to make it to the boys room, and they did. They pushed right past me and then ended up apologizing because they literally pushed me to try and get to my kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

I appreciate that. I appreciate that. They did. Right?

[Lucas]

That's good.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the is wrong with you, man?

[Lucas]

I just. I don't know.

[Willow]

He didn't smoke that day is what it ended up.

[Caleb Hammer]

Back to buddy not looking the best right now. Well, you have a redemption arc by the end of this.

[Lucas]

Yes, I quit smoking. I.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, that was the issue. That was the issue we were concerned with here.

[Lucas]

No, what the.

[Willow]

It did. It led to a lot of his issues.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, come on. Yeah, that le. Yeah, sorry. When I don't have my coffee, I also just jerk off in front of a kid. Like, what?

[Willow]

And unfortunately, it wasn't the first time that cops were called. Like, and so he has me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why are there other times? No, why are there other times?

[Willow]

He threw a bowl at my head.

[Lucas]

No, not at your bowl. It was in the sink.

[Willow]

He said it was at the sink, but he was in the living room and. What?

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you kidding, Porter?

[Willow]

As I'm in the.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you doing?

[Willow]

And then he tried to fight his ex brother in law because he said, don't throw things at her. And literally he went and tackled him. Not tackled him.

[Lucas]

I didn't throw at her. I literally threw it at the sink because it was my dinner.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why would you be throwing a bowl at the sink? Even your excuses make no sense.

[Lucas]

Because I was in the living room and I was like, you know what? Why are you throwing your bowl from

[Caleb Hammer]

the living room to the sink?

[Lucas]

It was only, like, from here to that wall.

[Caleb Hammer]

And So I never throwed a bowl.

[Lucas]

And so I was like.

[Caleb Hammer]

I was like, okay, yeah, continue. Sure.

[Lucas]

I was like, I'm done. I don't want to eat no more. And I was like, I just threw the bowl at the sink.

[Caleb Hammer]

Classic, classic end of dinner, I'm done. I don't want to eat no more. Classic normal dinner situation. What are you. What are you talking about? That excuse is insane.

[Willow]

And then we both adjusted.

[Caleb Hammer]

And how did your head magically appear in his hitbox?

[Willow]

I was standing right there. I. Me and his ex brother in law both believe it was directed at me. He was.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, yeah, yeah. Cops got called.

[Willow]

He ended. His brother in law ended up literally saying, no. He threw it at her.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Were there other cop calls?

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What?

[Willow]

He choked me while I was holding our newborn baby. And my issue isn't even all the experiences. It's the fact that he, like, defends them. Like, obviously, y' all see the defensiveness. If he would just own up to it and be like, yes, that's what I did. I up great. But it's the defensiveness behind it.

[Lucas]

And the reason, no, the choking was because in the beginning relationship, we were in, like a BDSM relationship where I

[Willow]

was but not holding a newborn baby. That's even where I said that I drew the line. I had a newborn baby.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't think free use and stuff is usually when holding the newborn baby. I don't think ropes are when holding a newborn baby.

[Willow]

Yeah. And then his mom called me with death threats on the exact same night because I took his son away from him. And I was this big, horrible person.

[Caleb Hammer]

How did I choke you?

[Willow]

It was 10, 15 seconds.

[Caleb Hammer]

So if it was an accident and you noticed, if it was just BDSM and it wasn't good, it wouldn't have lasted for 15 seconds.

[Lucas]

No, like, it was hardcore BDSM stuff. Like when she got upset with the baby.

[Caleb Hammer]

She was holding the kid.

[Lucas]

She grabbed the kid after it was started.

[Willow]

Bullshit.

[Lucas]

Like, we were already. And so the thing was, when she started acting up, I was supposed to step up, put her in place, tell her to stop. She picked up the baby, and I was like, no. Like, this is.

[Willow]

That's why I literally ran around the freaking side of the bed. Because you were acting like a psychopath. I had in my hand.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was he acting like a psychopath?

[Willow]

We were in some stupid argument. I had our oldest with me, and he was acting stupid. And yes, he threw up. Oh, well, we're in this type of relationship. I said, stop. No, we're not doing this right now. I have my kid. And so I walked around the side of the bed, and I said, I swear, if you don't stop, I'm leaving. And that's when he ended up grabbing my throat. I still had.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's when he grabbed the throat.

[Willow]

Yes. And I still had our oldest in my hands. And then I got up, I called, at the time, his brother's girlfriend, and I said, I need you to come pick me up. I'm not safe here. I can't be here. And on the drive down to her house, that's when his mom called me, threatening me.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you're in a BDSM relationship after a big argument, after a. No, I don't want to do this. Why is that when the choking would begin?

[Lucas]

Okay. I told her. I was like, you can't just tell me no when I'm supposed to be in charge, like.

[Willow]

And that's why.

[Caleb Hammer]

Excuse me.

[Willow]

That is exactly why I stopped.

[Caleb Hammer]

Make that make sense. So I'll give you a second attempt

[Lucas]

here because we agreed upon this as we.

[Caleb Hammer]

With a safe word.

[Lucas]

Well, she didn't have a safe word, really. I mean, but, I mean, it was like, you do it or you get punished for it. And she knew this. We agreed upon this.

[Willow]

But again, not with a baby in your hands. You're missing the whole big point that. At least my point. You don't do crap with a baby in their hands. Yes. And the fact that I said quit. The fact that I was walking away from you with our child and my hands.

[Lucas]

But you were also acting really crazy, too, though.

[Caleb Hammer]

Was she? Yes, I think she.

[Willow]

What?

[Caleb Hammer]

Not at that point.

[Lucas]

Yes, you were.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? Oh, let's give.

[Willow]

Is.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't even want to give an attempt, honestly. But out of just the fairness of conversation, why the not sure. What? What?

[Lucas]

Because. So she was already in a bad mood and yelling and cussing. And I thought I was like, look, you need to quit your. Or you're gonna get punished for it. And she wanted to keep on. Keep on yelling, cussing, yelling, cussing. And then she pushed me, and I said, no, you're not gonna push me. Like. Like, that will get your ass, like, in a lot of serious trouble. And then we got into, like, an actual argument, and I was like, no, like that. Like, this ain't gonna happen this way. You're gonna quit your shit.

[Willow]

Actual argument. So, see, you understand the difference between doing things sexually and doing things seriously.

[Lucas]

But it wasn't all the sexual. You know, this.

[Willow]

The issue is Is you don't do shit with a baby in your hands. And that's why I literally just sat here and said is that you cannot just own up for the shit that you've done. That's my whole issue. Yes, we've moved past it, but the problem is, is you have never actually sat down. I'm sorry.

[Caleb Hammer]

How have we moved past that, guys? I don't know if that's something we move past, especially with kids in the picture. I'm sorry. I mean, what are we on, like, five, six things that Lindsey, who did your entire. She didn't know any of this. She knew the door thing. I didn't know the door thing. She knew the door thing. Everything else is blowing everyone's mind in this room. Got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I see all their faces. Everyone's minds are blown.

[Willow]

The problem is we do. We have moved past it. But when it's just defending and defending and defending the action.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, because he hasn't moved past it. He's defending it today. Today he is defending him. Today he is defending masturbating in front of a kid. Today he is defending choking you out

[Lucas]

of a kid, buddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Today he is defending breaking down a door.

[Lucas]

It's a lot worse than what it was. What?

[Caleb Hammer]

How else would you describe it?

[Lucas]

Like it was an accident. She wasn't even supposed to be walking out.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's not an accident. No one sets himself up there without the risk, the hope, the kink of it.

[Lucas]

No, see, that's where your up mind comes from.

[Caleb Hammer]

No. You go to the bathroom. Are you a. Everyone knows to go to the bathroom. No, I've never had a situation where anyone would assume or insinuate because I've never been caught. Is that just my mind? That you go to the bathroom when a kid is going to come out?

[Willow]

I should not masturbate for one night.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, there is that, but everyone, I guess, according to you, everyone in this room is a pedophile. Because everyone raised their hand when they said we'd just go to the bathroom.

[Willow]

And that's not the point. Just stop. Just admit that, yes, it was fucked up. Everybody here. You've.

[Caleb Hammer]

And also gaslighting the kid, gaslighting the kids in there, lying, all this stuff like, that's not what you say. If it was an accident. If it was an accident, you own the accident. You don't do the gaslight. You don't do the bullshit.

[Lucas]

I didn't even know she even seen me until, like a week later when it came out.

[Willow]

I knew that Night.

[Lucas]

Nobody told me that night though. You told me that she didn't feel good, she was going home. And then I found.

[Willow]

Because that's what I got told from a seven year old.

[Caleb Hammer]

So who all was in the house?

[Willow]

Me, our oldest, my sister and him.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, regardless, let's pretend the kid's not even there if her and her sister's there. I'm not. You want to know something fun? My girl back home, her sister's in town right now. I'm not in the living room.

[Lucas]

Yeah, I mean, it was a mistake, okay?

[Willow]

It was.

[Caleb Hammer]

It certainly was.

[Willow]

Buddy, that is better than sitting here and defending yourself. Yes, it was a mistake.

[Caleb Hammer]

Also, we, I, I, I did catch it earlier and they caught it too. You were like, when you're defending, you were gonna, or your ass is gonna get consequences or whatever you were gonna say your ass is gonna get beat. You caught yourself in that moment. Come on.

[Lucas]

No, I, I don't physically hit her.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, just choke.

[Willow]

Well, we don't throw this and do anything anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, well, you guys live together now for six months, which blows my mind that you let him back in the house.

[Willow]

But see, I didn't even try and let him back in. It was supposed to be a one week thing. And that's why I even applied to come on here, because I was like, I need to get my shit together and if you're going to be here, you're coming with me. Because you were supposed to stay for a week and it's been pushed out. Pushed out, Push out. Yes. I admit I have got feelings for him again. And like, we've tried to rebuild things, but I was like, no, you're gonna get your shit together too. I'm not doing both parts in a relationship and not having Wait.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, you don't even work.

[Willow]

Yeah, you don't even work.

[Lucas]

I was working.

[Willow]

Was July 2024 is when he last worked at Real Time. July 3rd, to be exact.

[Caleb Hammer]

You gotta stop with your attempt to defend. Because once we learn the reality, it's even worse. I wouldn't have known that if you didn't just try to defend it. You gotta just stop. You gotta stop.

[Lucas]

We talked about me staying home because she wants to be stay home. Mom first. Didn't like it too much, got real bored with it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, that's fine.

[Lucas]

And so she's like, well, how about you stay home with the kids, I go get the job. And so we're like, okay. Because when we both try to work, we get into arguments because when the kids get sick or Something happens. We can't both take off work.

[Willow]

It's not how it started. It started on. We were not getting back together unless he had a job. And he kept pushing it off and pushing it off and pushing it off and saying, oh, nobody's hiring. So then I started applying for him. He would get calls back when I was applying for him. And then, yes, then he brought it to my attention that, you know, how are we going to do this? And he's right. My job is very demanding. I am trying to get promoted, things of that sort of. And so, yes, now I've agreed that, you know, it is better that he does be there.

[Lucas]

I was doing applications on Indy too.

[Caleb Hammer]

Traditional home security only alerts you after a break in. And that's too late.

[Willow]

Simplisafe is changing that.

[Lucas]

Stop.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is Simplisafe. Police are on the way. We don't just alert.

[Willow]

We stop crime before it starts. Simplisafe plans starting around a dollar a day.

[Caleb Hammer]

Save 50% on your new system with

[Willow]

professional [e-mail] Spotify or with promo code

[Caleb Hammer]

Spotify Outdoor deterrence requires a Simplisafe active guard outdoor protection plan starting at $49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com licenses for alarm license information.

[Lucas]

Tennessee 2012 I did like five different interviews from. Indeed.

[Caleb Hammer]

Five interviews?

[Lucas]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Since when?

[Lucas]

Since what? October. It was this year before we sat down talking about me just staying home with the kids.

[Willow]

Because I was like, yeah, so from

[Caleb Hammer]

October to October, buddy, I did five interviews a week at a minimum. When I was trying to find another job before I got the job that I had before this. A week minimum. That was my minimum threshold for me to not off myself. What are you talking about? How do you not feel shame as a man?

[Lucas]

I put applications in. I just wasn't getting called backs.

[Caleb Hammer]

Where do you put applications in?

[Lucas]

Indeed.

[Willow]

He's saying, what companies?

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no. What platform? Indeed. Yeah, show me your indeed. Go ahead.

[Lucas]

I don't think I'm indeed on my phone anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, why not anymore? Why not anymore?

[Willow]

Because I tried going through it.

[Lucas]

No, that's not it. That was the old phone. It's on the green phone at the house or the white phone. Whatever.

[Caleb Hammer]

I actually, I need to. I need to wrap up my at least understanding. So, okay, after the door situation, it's like the fifth police phone call and I'm sure there's even more, but whatever, let's just go from there. Is that when you divorced?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. How quickly after the domestic violence Situation. Did you divorce?

[Willow]

So I moved out that very night.

[Lucas]

Good.

[Willow]

And I told him I was done about two weeks later and everything was finalized in December.

[Lucas]

Good.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Two years of divorce.

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why the did you let him move back in, even for a week? So I'm sure your. Your family was on your side, right?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

When they were okay. Very much okay. Good. And they probably don't. How do they even think about you guys being together now? Dude, if I was like your relative, I'd be burning shit down.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

In protest.

[Willow]

They. They're okay with it because I seem to be okay with it.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? They're okay with him moving back in?

[Willow]

My mom was very cautious towards, like,

[Caleb Hammer]

it's not a real word, but.

[Willow]

Yeah, whatever. Yeah. She wanted me to proceed with caution.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's good.

[Willow]

And as of right now is kind of tolerating.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why am I being told they didn't even. Your family didn't even know when you moved them back in?

[Willow]

Because they didn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, well. Why are you telling me they were okay? Just move with caution.

[Willow]

Yeah, they are now.

[Caleb Hammer]

How long until they knew?

[Willow]

What, four weeks?

[Caleb Hammer]

If you or your child spent years growing up on social media and experienced serious mental health struggles, you should hear this. Recently, a jury ordered Meta and YouTube to pay millions for their role in designing and promoting addictive platforms. They knew their apps could contribute to anxiety, depression, and body image issues, but did not share those risks while prioritizing profits. The recent historic verdict underscores the consequences of those decisions. Now Morgan. And Morgan is stepping up to hold these platforms platforms accountable for the harm they caused. Click the link in my bio to take a short quiz. You may be entitled to a potential recovery of over $1,000. I just launched the brand new Hammer Elite app, available on every major platform. So you can watch every show anywhere you want. You'll get three exclusive dedicated shows every single day, Monday through Saturday. Refer a friend after you sign up, and you get an additional 30 days of hammer Elite access. What the. So why did you let him move back in? Because this past is one of the more extreme. No, it's the most extreme past I've ever seen on the show.

[Willow]

So I said no.

[Caleb Hammer]

Two years later, what happened?

[Willow]

I said no multiple. Multiple times.

[Caleb Hammer]

So, okay, well, walk me up to that. So, like, towards the beginning of the year, he started asking.

[Willow]

Yeah, what was he saying?

[Caleb Hammer]

What was going on?

[Willow]

Got kicked out of our rental that we originally had in January. So about a month after the divorce was final and he was staying from hotel to hotel, kept asking me to fund a hotel.

[Caleb Hammer]

Get a job, loser.

[Willow]

And then he basically. Long story short, at the time, I was staying with my mom. Things were getting stressful, and so my grandfather ended up trying to help me get a house, and I moved into the house and he found it very convenient that I then had my own house and was like, oh, I really want to work on things and we need to be back together. And was trying to prove himself to me. And I kept telling him, get a job. And then he couldn't stay with his friend anymore. So he came to me and he's like, look, I don't have anywhere to stay.

[Caleb Hammer]

And why doesn't anyone want you to live with them?

[Willow]

That's it?

[Lucas]

No, I didn't want to say my friend because he was smoking weed and I was trying to quit smoking weed. And so I was like, he didn't

[Willow]

quit until I officialized the divorce. He told me he quit in October. He didn't quit until about two, three months later.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, continue. So he kept asking, you said, get a job.

[Willow]

Yeah. And then he finally asked me if he could stay with me for a week. And I said, yes, you can stay with me for a week. He was supposed to have job interviews lined up, which I did.

[Lucas]

And I was doing the job interviews, and then they were like, oh, yeah, you're going. It's doing great. And then I'll get emails saying that they found another candidate, but I can't.

[Caleb Hammer]

But we didn't get a job. Why'd you let him move back in?

[Willow]

So he was already staying there.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? Why was he there?

[Willow]

Cause I was letting him stay for a week. One week.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so what happened at the end of the week?

[Willow]

I did not hold boundaries because obviously, as y' all can tell, there's been multiple police calls.

[Caleb Hammer]

Multiple. And other incidents, let's say.

[Willow]

Yeah. And I was stressed and I did not want to initiate kicking him out, end up on bad terms for not only me, but for our kids. Because he and his family would always be like, oh, well, we run this

[Caleb Hammer]

town and we run Lubbock.

[Willow]

Yeah. And his kick ass family. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do they run Lubbock?

[Willow]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do they do?

[Willow]

So his brother used to be a really big time person in Lubbock.

[Caleb Hammer]

Doing what?

[Willow]

Selling drugs.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Willow]

And so, yes, when I was getting threatening phone calls, I was like, honestly scared to lose my kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

How would the drug dealer take your kids?

[Willow]

I don't know. Anxiety. It was just. I was very anxious about the whole situation. And he was. He was trying to show me that he was Changing and that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hey, buddy, what have you been typing for like about a thousand years?

[Lucas]

No, nothing. I'm trying to download the Indeed app.

[Willow]

You can go to the Safari.

[Caleb Hammer]

You can log in via web browser. Okay, sorry, Continue.

[Lucas]

Sorry.

[Caleb Hammer]

What did his parents do? How did they run the town? Is your drug dealer brother gonna kill me for you saying stupid things on my show?

[Willow]

No, he's.

[Caleb Hammer]

I would prefer if you actually answered that question.

[Lucas]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, good, because my security guard's a better shot.

[Lucas]

I doubt that, but.

[Willow]

And it's comments like that that were scaring me at the time.

[Lucas]

I'm just saying.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, we. We got the top level people, so.

[Willow]

And then.

[Lucas]

I'm not saying that like threatening. I'm just saying like he. It's a good shot too. Like he. He likes shooting guns anyway. But no, it's not anything like that.

[Willow]

How is he gonna do that from where he is?

[Lucas]

I know, I'm not saying not like that. I'm just saying like, what does he sell?

[Willow]

He doesn't anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's good. He got his life.

[Willow]

No, he's locked up.

[Lucas]

He's in prison. Oh, on a murder charge.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who'd he kill?

[Willow]

Supposedly one of his really good friends.

[Lucas]

Huh. He didn't. He didn't do it. He actually has Project Innocence looking to his case because he was framed for it. He didn't do it. I

[Caleb Hammer]

support that man. And he is innocent and everything's good and he's a good guy and just.

[Lucas]

Let's see.

[Caleb Hammer]

He didn't do it.

[Lucas]

Like, no, like literally, like there's about 1500 pages of evidence that just got turned into Project Innocent scene.

[Caleb Hammer]

Am I on the side of that evidence? I am. I'm on the side of it. He's a good man, did nothing wrong.

[Lucas]

No, I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong. I'm saying he didn't do the crime he got locked up for.

[Caleb Hammer]

I agree.

[Lucas]

Caleb, I promise, bro.

[Caleb Hammer]

That I'm safe.

[Lucas]

Yes. Promise.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so what else?

[Lucas]

I promise.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so what else did they do around that town?

[Willow]

That was basically it. But. So his brother threatened me.

[Caleb Hammer]

And what was the threat?

[Willow]

Well, me and my dad, he threatened to shoot up my parents house with

[Lucas]

kids because her dad. Her dad put a gun to my head, told me he's gonna shoot my head off because why would he do that?

[Willow]

Because he was not a very good guy towards me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Why do we have so many violent people in all in our lives here, guys?

[Lucas]

I know her dad would literally beat the shit out of her mom, go in her Room.

[Willow]

Her. Her?

[Lucas]

Yes, her. I found out. And that's how me and her dad got on vacation. And when I showed up to his house to call him out, he put a gun on my head and put my head to a hood of a car and said, he's gonna blow my brains out.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is happening in Lubbock, Texas?

[Willow]

Like, oh, my goodness.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, is he in jail?

[Willow]

He is, yeah. He passed away. You can say he passed away.

[Caleb Hammer]

How'd he die?

[Willow]

You don't have to say it like.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I'm glad he's dead.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, that guy. I'm glad he's dead. His daughter. I'm glad he is dead. I would kill him myself.

[Lucas]

Her mom wound up shooting him because he was going to the little sisters.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's good, right?

[Lucas]

Well, I mean, yes and no. I mean, they were.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I mean, it's your DEP. Some like it. Okay, so, yeah, interesting situation for me to balance here, but close your ears. Can you just close your ears for my sake real quick? I'm glad that motherfucker's dead.

[Lucas]

But, yeah, so when he pulls a gun on me, my older brother was like, no, like, you're not gonna pull a gun on my little brother.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I think that's fair. I am actually on the side of your brother there for sure. That's crazy. That is. Is he on the browser? What's he doing?

[Lucas]

Yeah, I'm on Indy.

[Willow]

He just got logged in.

[Lucas]

Sorry.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so. Okay, so after getting the threats, you said, okay, you can just stay longer.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So he's there under threat?

[Lucas]

Not this time.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, well, I thought you were saying,

[Willow]

this time, past threats, but yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, so you're just scared from the past?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, why'd you leave? Let him stay there over a week if you didn't want to?

[Lucas]

That's not an end.

[Willow]

Because we were trying to rebuild things. We were trying to see what we could do. I told him he needed to get his crap together because I didn't want to be with someone who can't hold his own while I'm sitting here holding me and my kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. I clicked on his jobs, zero saved, zero invitations, zero applied, zero interviews.

[Lucas]

It might be different account because.

[Willow]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Would you like to log into the other account?

[Lucas]

I could try. I mean, I like that. I. I don't know anything about phones or anything like that. Like, the only thing I do is

[Willow]

which account did you sign into?

[Lucas]

I don't.

[Willow]

Email.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. How are you guys doing today?

[Lucas]

I mean, I thought we were doing great. I mean, we haven't we haven't even been in, like, an argument, really.

[Willow]

He's right. We have not been in an argument since.

[Caleb Hammer]

But we have not talked since. We haven't been in an argument since,

[Lucas]

like, since I moved in.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, really? But you haven't talked?

[Willow]

Yeah, we often.

[Caleb Hammer]

I have. How often do you guys have sex?

[Lucas]

Well, that's a tricky question because she has medical issues that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, there's other things that can be done. How often are you guys sexual Intimate?

[Lucas]

Not very often.

[Willow]

Couldn't tell you the last time.

[Caleb Hammer]

So not since he moved in.

[Lucas]

Yeah, we have.

[Willow]

Once. No, twice since you moved in.

[Lucas]

No, it's been more than that.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I wouldn't say we're necessarily in the healthiest relationship at the moment if we're not communicating out of fear of arguing. You know what is so interesting? What is so interesting after all of this, Honestly, some of the craziest shit I've ever heard in my life. Your kids are the absolute sweetest. It's like they've been through nothing. What the. They're perfect. They're literally perfect in the limited interaction I had.

[Willow]

Well, thank you.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the. Is happening?

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do I just need to make sure my kids grow up in a horrendous household? And then they're just gonna be the sweetest little things? Okay, guys, what do we think? Our fund? I'm gonna get shit for even giving you guys a financial audit. You know what the audience is telling me right now, right? You know what they're saying in the comments? That I shouldn't even do it. That I should get you arrested. I mean, I can't. That's not how this works. But you. You know, that's what they're saying.

[Lucas]

For what? I haven't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. But, like, it's like, you know, that's what they're saying. They're saying I shouldn't even do this. What do you think I should do here, guys? What do you guys want from me? How about that you two collectively? Collectively, what do you want from me? And I will do that. Cause you're the ones on the show,

[Willow]

regardless of whether we stay together or not. I applied because I need my shit together.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is this all you, or is it him, too?

[Willow]

So there's a couple of his. Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, well, I'll separate it

[Willow]

now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? When Lindsey asked you about you filling out jobs, you said filling out job applications is impossible for you because you have a bad memory.

[Lucas]

Yeah, my memory is shot.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's okay. But why can't you fill out job applications because of a memory?

[Lucas]

Well, cause, like, it'd be like, when did you work for this job? And so I'm like, write it down.

[Caleb Hammer]

Make up a resume.

[Willow]

I've made him a resume.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, my God.

[Lucas]

Which I. Which when she made it, I started using it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait, what was your. What was your job in 2024? What can we roll that experience into? What were you doing? What was he doing?

[Willow]

He was a cleaning technician.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, what were you cleaning?

[Lucas]

Commercial hood vents and restaurants.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, that sounds like maybe some money. Ish. What were you making?

[Lucas]

I was making 3, 200amonth.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, yeah, listen, that would double literally, or that would more than double our household if you guys would.

[Lucas]

But the problem is, is the guys working for was a real big piece of. And I would literally go in like maybe a couple days out going to sleep sometimes because he would book four restaurants a night for us to clean, and then we go and clean those, get home. And then he had me run to Home Depot to go get supplies up to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, you were working. You were getting paid for the labor. I mean, it was. It was a hard job.

[Lucas]

And then.

[Caleb Hammer]

And if you don't like a hard job, you apply to other jobs. You actually have to apply. You apply to other jobs, get another job, then leave that job.

[Lucas]

Well, I love the job. Like, it wasn't the job, it was the guy. Like, he was.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then different manager you could have tried to get requested under.

[Lucas]

No, it was just there's probably other

[Caleb Hammer]

companies that you could have rolled that experience into that. Clean hood vents.

[Willow]

He signed a agreement with the guy that if he went to another company like that, he would sue him.

[Caleb Hammer]

For how long?

[Willow]

Two years?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, two, three years? Well, yeah, probably two years, but yeah, I mean, that's fine. You can work somewhere else for two years and then go back. Okay, well, either way, you clearly did it like the job because the manager ruined it. Right, but what. What was the issue? Okay, so this is. This was the why things were bad, according to Mr. Lucas. Lucas said you guys had a lot of stresses going on and you were in a stressful job at the time. That was the. Go, go, go. That's what you were telling me. Right. But when you're working for the job. This is what you said. This is confusing to me. His boss. Your boss made you go to a strip club.

[Lucas]

Yeah, so we were in Odessa and

[Willow]

then lied to me about it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Odessa, a classic old town.

[Lucas]

Yeah, dude working fall. I tried. I don't have a high school diploma.

[Caleb Hammer]

So get a ged.

[Lucas]

I've been trying to do that for a couple years.

[Caleb Hammer]

How do you try to get a GED for a couple years?

[Willow]

Well, he stopped going.

[Lucas]

Well, because.

[Caleb Hammer]

Just get a ged. This is not a difficult thing.

[Lucas]

I mean, I'll get you a course,

[Caleb Hammer]

career certification in a trade. They have lots of trade things there. H Vac, all that good stuff. I'll get you one of those people who use them in the audience to get a six figure paying job. That's good. But, I mean, I'd love to also take advantage of the oil market out there right now. Get a GED as well. Okay, but go ahead. What was the strip club?

[Lucas]

So we went out to. Go out to eat. He got a little too drunk. We were catching Uber back to the Airbnb. He told the Uber driver, I'll give you 400 cash if you take me up to the strip club. Boring.

[Caleb Hammer]

I understand why either left or got fired in confusion. Blah, blah, blah. Why haven't you got a job since?

[Lucas]

I mean, I applied for jobs. I just wasn't getting called out.

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't. I just went into your indeed. Now you. You literally don't.

[Lucas]

She seen my indeed? I don't know what account.

[Caleb Hammer]

What have you seen?

[Willow]

They were all jobs that he thought were true and they were not. They were scam jobs.

[Lucas]

They were not.

[Willow]

Yes, like he was trying to get scammed.

[Caleb Hammer]

You were a manager of Burger King. Go work in fast food.

[Willow]

He says that's below him.

[Caleb Hammer]

No. What?

[Lucas]

No, no.

[Caleb Hammer]

No job is below you, and you don't have a job. You have kids. You need to put food on the table. What government benefits are y' all on?

[Willow]

None.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? That doesn't make sense.

[Lucas]

We don't have government benefits, but you can apply.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, I guess that's something I don't know. Okay, that's fine. So what do you want to do? Oh, they're telling me what you want to do. Yeah, why don't you tell me what you want to do?

[Lucas]

I mean, eventually I want to try to open up, like, a business.

[Caleb Hammer]

There it is. That's what he said. What does that even mean?

[Lucas]

I mean, I figured. I've been watching a lot of videos on Facebook, stuff of, like, owning a laundry mat or getting a vacant lot for, like, trucks or an RV park, something like that. So that way it's passive income. But it's not like you have to be at the job 24 7, so I can be there for my family and the kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

How can you afford any of that without even. Let's Just like. I'm not even gonna talk about that. It's just like, what the are we doing?

[Lucas]

Well, I figured get a loan or something, like. Cause they said that get a loan without a check, you get a bank loan.

[Caleb Hammer]

And who's gonna approve you for a loan?

[Willow]

I mean, he thinks if he puts it under money.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you're gonna put it under her. You guys are officially divorced? So you're not married again? No. Good. Not engaged, right?

[Willow]

We are boyfriend and girlfriend.

[Caleb Hammer]

Thank. Just start there. My goodness. I don't even. I would honestly advocate against it, but it. I'll go with it. Business owner.

[Willow]

That's.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why can't you just get a job, buddy? Why can't you go work at Burger King again?

[Lucas]

I applied for Burger King.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? They said no?

[Lucas]

Well, because of the issue that we kind of lost our jobs for. Because of the manager.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you guys lost your job? You got fired from Burger King?

[Lucas]

No, I did not. Not technically, but he did. I didn't get fired either.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, how'd you lose your job?

[Lucas]

So the whole thing of her dating the other Manager, that was 45 and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, what's wrong with you dating?

[Willow]

He's not 45. He was 36, and he lied to me. And you were about. Yeah, 17. He lied to me about his age, and everybody up there knew that he lied about his age.

[Lucas]

I did not know. When I found out, I told her. I was like, you know, this guy is this old, and she's like, are you? I was like, yes.

[Willow]

I had no idea.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why are you dating a manager at 17 anyway?

[Willow]

Yeah. Trauma. Rough life, trying to get away from my parents.

[Caleb Hammer]

And how does that equal to any

[Willow]

person who had a house?

[Lucas]

Okay, but he didn't have a house. They. He actually stayed in the motel. And.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, my goodness, Lubbock is an incredible place. McDonald's, then Wendy's. Come on.

[Lucas]

I worked at Wendy's.

[Willow]

You worked at Wendy's.

[Caleb Hammer]

Good. Do that.

[Willow]

He got into a fight with manager.

[Lucas]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

McDonald's. Jack in the Box.

[Lucas]

We don't have Jack in the box.

[Caleb Hammer]

McDonald's, local restaurant.

[Lucas]

Well, the problem is, is so when I start working at restaurants and I come to managers, I find out I get paid a lot less than what I was supposed to be getting paid.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I don't give a. Go make money. You have to put food on the table for your kids. You're not working as selfish right now. Objectively, you guys are gonna stay together.

[Lucas]

You're not working as Promise. We sat down, we talked, and we agreed on that. It'd be best right now for me to stay home with the kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's true.

[Lucas]

And take care of the house, the animals.

[Caleb Hammer]

Was 1749amonth.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

How are you guys affording bills at all?

[Willow]

We're not.

[Lucas]

We were. And. But then we went until the tax

[Caleb Hammer]

refund money dried up.

[Lucas]

No, not even then. We took a trip to Galveston and

[Caleb Hammer]

everyone's favorite vacation destination and kind of

[Lucas]

went over a budget. In Galveston or on the kids. And so that kind of puts behind.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are we doing? Oh, you took a loan out for that trip? I'm going to literally die. This is insane. Guys. What life have you lived?

[Lucas]

A pretty up one. That's why we're here, trying to fix our lives and get on the right track of learning how to budget.

[Caleb Hammer]

Answer a question honestly. If I ask it.

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's the youngest person you've ever been with without knowing your age first? Because maybe you're a 17 year old with like a 15 year old. What's the youngest person. What's the youngest person you've ever been with?

[Lucas]

I've always dated.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's the youngest person you've ever been with? Okay. Is that true? She vape. Okay, he's not telling the truth. What is it? Tell me.

[Willow]

I'm not saying her actual name.

[Caleb Hammer]

Don't say the name.

[Willow]

Your wife before me.

[Lucas]

Oh, she was. She was younger than you by six months.

[Willow]

Oh, but y' all were, he said, the youngest person that you've ever dated not knowing your age, that was what, 15, 16?

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, fair enough.

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

And that's fine? That's fine.

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you don't know the wife. And why'd she leave you?

[Lucas]

She died. She had muscular dystrophy and passed away.

[Caleb Hammer]

She left you permanently?

[Lucas]

Yeah. She had muscular dystrophy and died.

[Caleb Hammer]

That one's sad. We don't like that one. Rip Sympathies. It's very difficult to have sympathy for you, but like sympathies. You didn't have a kid with her, did you?

[Lucas]

I did.

[Caleb Hammer]

Shit. Okay. That poor kid. I have sympathy for the kid. Yeah, that's really difficult. Where's the kid?

[Lucas]

He got taken by cps. But I. I have. I have evidence.

[Caleb Hammer]

Rare to get a butt after that.

[Lucas]

I have an evidence where my shit was. Was butchered and chopped and up the whole case.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, okay.

[Willow]

Technically, he didn't get taken.

[Caleb Hammer]

When was the kid.

[Lucas]

Well, I get.

[Caleb Hammer]

When was the kid not technically taken?

[Lucas]

Back in 2015, buddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Evidence for the last 11 years.

[Lucas]

I've tried. Lawyers are very expensive.

[Caleb Hammer]

When's the last time you seen.

[Willow]

Four years ago.

[Lucas]

No, we seen him at the park. What was it?

[Willow]

Yes, a informal, like from me to Lindsey.

[Lucas]

He's 16 now seeing.

[Caleb Hammer]

How was your relationship?

[Willow]

He's not 16.

[Lucas]

He was born 2013.

[Willow]

Yeah, that's 13.

[Lucas]

Oh, 13.

[Caleb Hammer]

How's your relationship?

[Lucas]

The cost of parents. Won't let me see them. Huh? The cost of parents. The foster parents.

[Caleb Hammer]

Foster, okay.

[Lucas]

Yeah. Won't let me see him.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Lucas]

Well, because. So when I gave up my rights to him in court.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why Boring.

[Lucas]

They were like, oh, well, we need to do a drug test. And when they did a drug Test, they found 14 drugs took the kid. And I think it was more like maybe the cosplayers were like paying CPS something. I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Lucas]

But there was a lot of sketchy stuff going on in 2013. CPS down there. There was a kid in shallow water that.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's his evidence? You say you have evidence. What's the evidence?

[Lucas]

I did it. Got stolen out of my car. My car got broken into. We were staying in a motel. I had a briefcase, a metal briefcase, and it got stolen with a bunch of other stuff out of my car.

[Caleb Hammer]

You believe everything here?

[Lucas]

She's seen it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but do you believe everything here?

[Willow]

90% of it.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you not believe?

[Willow]

I have a really hard time believing why he was originally taken. I don't think CPS is just going to come and take a kid just because a family member is calling. Especially in Texas where we don't even have grandparents rights. But everything past that. Yes, I've read the documents. I've talked to CPS workers myself. Everything else, drug tests. Yes, I have seen the drug test.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you believe his interpretation and confusion?

[Willow]

I don't know. I do.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't.

[Willow]

I do. But I have hesitation on it because he did lie to me for three months saying that he was not smoking when he was.

[Lucas]

No problem. I had every single drug test. Result.

[Willow]

Result.

[Lucas]

I had every single result.

[Willow]

I am kind of with you. I feel like he was still smoking marijuana and it was laced. I think that's where the other 14 drugs came from. But he says he was.

[Lucas]

That was one drug test. And 22 days. 22 days later, there's nothing else in my. In my hair.

[Caleb Hammer]

Same supplier, though, right?

[Lucas]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Maybe you smoke something that was laced again.

[Lucas]

No, my last drug test, I wasn't smoking weed.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why would. Okay, okay.

[Lucas]

That's why I took another drug test. Literally a week. It was a week from that time.

[Caleb Hammer]

Your solution to everything now because you have like the legal blah blah blah, makes it hard to get a job, right? I guess. Is that what you said? Is that. That's how we got onto it, right? Why can't you work at McDonald's?

[Lucas]

I just don't feel like I get paid my worth.

[Caleb Hammer]

Your worth is determined by the marketplace. They've determined your worth. Your worth is currently zero. You make zero. That's what you want your worth to be. Go get a job. At least you'll be making something. Oh wait, no, you said. Because she said you should be stayed home.

[Lucas]

Well, I mean we sat down and talked about it and yes, we agreed on that.

[Caleb Hammer]

And your solution is to be a business owner, but you don't actually have an idea for a business. You just want to get land, I guess, and rent out for trailer parking. Well, like it's a thing that was like a hustle like 10 years ago. Like it's.

[Lucas]

I mean it still works though.

[Caleb Hammer]

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[Lucas]

Literally.

[Caleb Hammer]

The cherry flavor is insane. Listen, you can also get free samples to see if you like it or 10% off your order at gamersupps gg or click that link in the description below. Type in code Caleb. Yeah, but it's, it's definitely dried up. I mean I follow that. It's like people don't really advise for it. Now you said the laundry mat. It's a thing that can work but you need money and who's gonna, who's going to lend you the money for that? You make nothing. Who's lending someone money who makes nothing?

[Lucas]

I mean you pay it back from the business.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who's going to lend you the money though without you having income?

[Lucas]

I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, well thought out plan me. I'm going to. Okay guys, your Hammer financial score is certainly zero. I'm not even going to ask you what you think it is. Listen, get yours@caleb hammer.com See where you're good, where you're bad in the world of money. Take the assessment just three minutes and it is free. And if you don't want to be like a guest who ends up on the show, make sure you download the dollar wise budgeting app. Take the free trial and if you like it, which most people do, most people sign up for the annual version because it saves almost 50%. Then you get the physical version. My 30 day meal plan. Here you go. That's meal prepping meal plan and the digital version of the cookbook. I sign it and I mail it directly to you. Check it out. Otherwise.com Kalephammer.com, what the is happening? Okay, so you're just telling me what's his okay as I go through this, just tell me what's his okay? Financial one in good standing. $1,859.

[Willow]

So that was a joint decision, but it's mainly mine.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's on both of you.

[Willow]

No, it's only on me. But it was a joint decision.

[Caleb Hammer]

It was a decision for What. What is this for?

[Willow]

It is actually a title loan.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why'd you get it?

[Willow]

Bills.

[Caleb Hammer]

When?

[Willow]

For the first time. About a year ago. Nine months to a year.

[Caleb Hammer]

Have you been telling him to get a job? Wait nine months. You weren't living together. Why'd you get a joint decision?

[Willow]

Because he would not remove his name on the title.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Willow]

Of our truck.

[Caleb Hammer]

You were divorced. Why?

[Willow]

Because he wanted the truck. It was very back and forth. He would tell me to keep the truck because I had the kids. And then he would throw it up and be like, oh, well, I can't do this because I don't have the truck. Give me the truck. You have your family. Let your family drive you everywhere. And I said, I have our kids.

[Lucas]

I just wanted to use the truck.

[Caleb Hammer]

You wouldn't let him use the truck?

[Willow]

I did.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, I.

[Willow]

On multiple accounts. But it was becoming an issue to the point of he was using it to try to get in the same area as me, to talk to me and try.

[Caleb Hammer]

You realize that you're saying that about nine months ago, but you let him move in six months ago?

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you hear how insane this sounds?

[Lucas]

Yes,

[Caleb Hammer]

I will. Before I say this, I will give grace.

[Willow]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of which maybe I

[Caleb Hammer]

shouldn't, but I will give grace. Cause you're a guest on the show and you're in front of me. Maybe you've dealt with hard things and you've become a better person and you've learned and went through therapy or something. Maybe be okay. She's saying no.

[Willow]

But I. I asked him to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Guys, I'm trying to help you here.

[Lucas]

I've agreed to it.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm trying to make you sound better for a second. Maybe you've had. You've done bad things, you've learned and you're a better person now.

[Lucas]

Yes, sir.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, but given everything we've learned here, why the would she ever want you around her and to use the truck? Think about that analogical way. Let's say you got completely better, but just based on the past. Why would she want that?

[Lucas]

I mean, just. Cause that sounds shower. Like, hey, like I'm. Yes, I up and I did. I told her I up and I.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you became a much better person. Love that. Love that. But based on the past, why would she want you around her in order to use the truck? Just based on the past?

[Lucas]

I mean, I guess she wouldn't

[Caleb Hammer]

exactly. Why didn't you have your own car? You don't have a job.

[Lucas]

Well, I had a Car.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, okay. You crash it?

[Lucas]

No, I bought it off Facebook. The alternator went out on it. Huh?

[Caleb Hammer]

The air went out on it.

[Lucas]

Alternator.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, okay.

[Lucas]

And then went and got an alternator. But I'm not very mechanical wise on cars. And so Desiree Willow.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's why I go to mechanics. But, you know.

[Lucas]

Well, Willow is very decent work on vehicles. Like, she's loves working on vehicles.

[Caleb Hammer]

And so she's like, congratulations, you're the man of the household in every way whatsoever except for the DV part.

[Lucas]

And so she was like, yeah, I'll put on there. And then we went and got a loan on it to help out with the mortgage on the house.

[Caleb Hammer]

Didn't you like, grandpa buy you a house or something? Is there a mortgage on the house? So he bought you a house and put the mortgage on you? Not necessarily a gift.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you can't afford the mortgage.

[Willow]

He didn't buy me the house. He bought it because three days before we were supposed to buy it, my lender came back and said, we can't do it. Because of your credit.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Willow]

And so then maybe you shouldn't get it. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's the mortgage?

[Willow]

1200.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude, that's like basically your entire income. What are we doing here? Yeah, what the are we doing, guys? What the.

[Lucas]

How are we.

[Willow]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

$1,859 in good standing. Surprising. What's the monthly payment on that?

[Willow]

202.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's the interest?

[Willow]

36% APR.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? 36% Guidances. I have to. I have, man.

[Lucas]

But we keep refinancing it so we can keep building our credit.

[Caleb Hammer]

You. You refinanced it to 36%?

[Willow]

No, we only refinanced it twice.

[Caleb Hammer]

And it's the 36.

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why would you refinance it to 36%?

[Willow]

Because I was young and. Well, not young, because. Whatever. Yeah. And they didn't explain to me. They sent me a text message and they were like, oh, you can push back a payment and then get this on top of it. And so I was like, oh, okay. And so I asked him, I was like, is there any catch to it? And they're like, no, we push back your payment, you get this extra money,

[Caleb Hammer]

they make more interest.

[Willow]

Yeah. And I did not realize, guys, that.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the are we doing? Guys, this is ins. TXU Energy. You have collections for utilities.

[Willow]

Yes. That was when I moved out of the house. He was still staying there. He told me he was going to pay the energy bill. He trusted him.

[Caleb Hammer]

The guy without a job.

[Willow]

Yeah. He could Not. And then it got stuck on me.

[Caleb Hammer]

400 or $649. I mean, I'd negotiate that. I would try to get on a payment plan. Okay. This is collections of some kind. Is this yours?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

$479?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was it for?

[Willow]

That was for a loan back in 2019.

[Caleb Hammer]

Don't show you guys. Credit's bad. Might fall off soon. Hope it does.

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Lucky they haven't sued you. Got a court order and garnish your wages, of which there are little. Wait, why do you still owe your grandpa $25,000? Outside of the. Wait. Outside of the money he put.

[Lucas]

Wait.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then you owe money for that? What? What's happening?

[Willow]

He essentially has put up money multiple times to fix our car.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Lucas]

And then we won't even ask him, though. He just kind of steps in and, like, here, I'm paying for it, and y' all owe me the money.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry. Get rid of all those and all the other DV stuff. Whatever. Just get rid of that. Just sit here for a second. 3326. How are you guys not pathetically embarrassed?

[Lucas]

I mean, we are. That's why we're here. Trying to.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, you're not embarrassed enough. You would have a job at McDonald's yesterday. You're not embarrassed nearly enough.

[Lucas]

I mean, problem is, you is we have two kids, and somebody has to be there when they.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sounds like you have a lot of family around.

[Lucas]

Yes, but no. Her mom is. Works a lot, and they are typically busy. They will watch our boys.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hey, well, you're working McDonald's, she's nine to five. You're working five to midnight. There you go.

[Willow]

We tried that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why aren't you on ccs and stuff? Like, it would be meant for people like you. I mean, I would. I would still think it's because he's literally choosing not to work, but I would still rather food. Get on the table for your kids who don't deserve the consequences of your actions. So. What the.

[Willow]

I. We can't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Willow]

Because the income level.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? No, your income is nothing.

[Willow]

I know. That's.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you file jointly?

[Willow]

So not last year we did not. But before that we were. Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you're a single mother? According to the irs, yeah. Doesn't seem right. Okay, I have a cash app. Whose is it? 2009?

[Willow]

No, it's mine.

[Lucas]

Okay.

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Not a horrendous balance. Let's see what you do. Okay, well, we can't complain about bills if we're doing this guys, we're talking KFC, sending it out, Amazon, McDonald's, Little Caesars. Going and into Bullshit. What are you getting in Bullshit at Dollar General?

[Willow]

Actually, groceries.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that's not good. Don't go there because you're paying more per serving. That's how they do it because it's cheaper, but you're getting out substantially less, so you're actually paying much more in the end.

[Willow]

Well, I just go on my lunch break because it's right next to my job.

[Caleb Hammer]

We'll stop on the way home, unfortunately. And the dude's there anyway, doing nothing, so you can stop on the way home. So it's like, we have to really be efficient.

[Lucas]

I've asked her to stop on the way home, but by the time work's over, she's exhausted and she's ready to come home. Like, I've asked her to go to Walmart or.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you've asked her to. Hey, why don't you take the kids in the car?

[Lucas]

I have.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you have. Do it every day.

[Willow]

And I ask him to place Walmart plus orders, like I do at work, and he just messages me and is like, what do I need to get? And then it's just more work.

[Caleb Hammer]

You get. Well, you just gotta sit down and you gotta plan it out together. Cause I mean, if he doesn't know, he doesn't know. But you have to sit down and plan it together, like weekly, you know, meal prep and meal planning. Use that shit. You're warming up meals, you're doing shit like that. It's easy. It is literally for your entire household. Could do it on 800 bucks a month in Dollar General. You can't. I mean, KFC, McDonald's, Little Caesars, it doesn't fit in there. Regardless. If we got guys, we can't pay our bills if our grandpa's paying for everything. Come on. Potential Wall Street Walgreens photo. We have to do photos for $20. We have to. We can't pay our bills. Sonic Drive in, getting some bullshit things of potentially groceries. Potentially. Same thing there. I doubt. I mean, it's on the same day, so I bet you went and got some. That's groceries. That's. What do you stop? What do you get? That's some work spice when you stop in and you get. Come on, 12 bucks, what do you get, huh? Monsters Stop here.

[Willow]

Gamers and stationary.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, you're making gamer subs at home. Just like you make your coffee at home instead of getting Starbucks when I'm in your budget. First of all, this tastes Better than monster. I promise you that you make your energy drinks at home. This is gamer subs. It is delicious. 10% off with my code link in the description below. Get your free samples. Figure out what flavor you like. And I promise the best flavor because we have tried them all and we curated this specifically. Is now the liquid assets your very own financial audit flavor. It is delicious. It is raspberry apple. The combination is crazy. We have tested so many. It's absolutely wild. So that's the normal one that they have there. And then you have my face. One out of every 100 purchases will be randomly selected to get one with my face on it. Check it out. 40 cents a serving. Make sure you get that link in the description below. Yeah there like groceries there and then energy drinks should do gamer subs. Bold Door dash Okay. The excuses. It's across the work. Why are we door dashing dollar General at that point? What are we doing guys? Come on. Some Adventure Cap. $64. And I know and you know you

[Willow]

are training to promotion.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're doing a lot but unfortunately you're going to be more tired because you're going to work more to pay for the lifestyle that you're giving yourself out of you being tired. It's a. It's a doom cycle.

[Lucas]

Hulu.

[Caleb Hammer]

We don't. We can't afford that in our Life. We can't. YouTube's free. I'm sorry. Taco Bell. Definitely can't afford that. Energy drinks Peacock. Not even worth it. What the are we doing? McDonald's Cash App. Cash App. McDonald's. McDonald's. Amazon Kids. It has been since energy drink Sonic Drive in Amazon. Pull up your Amazon door dashing Subway. What are we doing? It's not even good unless it's the cookies.

[Willow]

Yeah. That's what it is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh you guys know that.

[Lucas]

That.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's no good.

[Lucas]

That's her door dashing lunch to work.

[Caleb Hammer]

Cookies.

[Lucas]

Well subs and cookies.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sonic driving money out. Energy drink overdraft. Yeah. No one's surprised. Bullshit. School.com snap food benefits up to. It's up to 3650. $65 a month. You don't get taxed at 50% the shit you're paying for your paycheck. That's not your paycheck. That's for the Texas limit.

[Willow]

Yeah. We also get an SSI check for 9.94.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well so you are getting benefits.

[Lucas]

Well it's our oldest benefits.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why I just met him. There's nothing wrong with him.

[Willow]

He's a level two autistic.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why did he pick those stats at Spawn? I did not notice anything weird with him.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Is he really? Cause he seems very normal to me. I'll be honest.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Autistic. Don't they have, like, communication? The dude was vibing with me and vibing with the babysitter.

[Lucas]

Well, he's in speech therapy. He's been in speech therapy since he

[Caleb Hammer]

was six weeks old.

[Lucas]

Occupational therapy, physical therapy.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's your actual income? What's Your salary listed?

[Willow]

$2,486. It puts us just above the income limit. For a family of three.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Yeah. Show me your Amazon. Let's see. There's a thing in the cart. What's this gonna be? Let's find out.

[Willow]

I have no idea, honestly.

[Caleb Hammer]

Charge your phone, woman. What are you doing? Okay, it's folding tabs, hanger things. I don't. Oh, yeah.

[Willow]

For work.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, let's not spend money on work when we can't afford our bills.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Deodorant. Semicolon. Okay. We don't need the gel stick pants. I know. I want to get it for the kids, too. Definitely don't. It's not for the birthday decorations. It's not hard. Okay, then definitely don't get it. Come on, guys. Whose cash app is this?

[Willow]

That one says 15.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, this is yours. I honestly don't give. No, I'm doing her. Okay. Who's this?

[Willow]

What is that? Mine, I think.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? A hundred collections? Why 100? What's it even the for?

[Willow]

I don't know. I have no idea what it's worth.

[Caleb Hammer]

Trans World. Trans System.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's you?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you 26. Why?

[Willow]

Because it was a energy bill.

[Caleb Hammer]

Great. What about the 218?

[Willow]

That one's actually on him.

[Caleb Hammer]

Don't care. Then pay it off. 640.

[Willow]

That one's on him as well.

[Caleb Hammer]

Don't care. Pay it off. This one?

[Willow]

That one's on him as well.

[Caleb Hammer]

Don't care. Pay it off. First Bank National.

[Willow]

Who? So that's both of us.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're on it together. We're joined. Still. Guys, you're divorced for multiple years. Okay? So snap. No, you are not. The monthly income limit for you specifically, $3,665. The standard gross limit for three is 2,888. Your 2,486 is under. Under both. So you're under both limits, but with the ss. So you're under the Texas, and you're under the Federal. The Texas is more generous, by the way, which is always surprising. When that happens.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So what the. You've been misled.

[Lucas]

So.

[Willow]

Yeah, I. I work with that kind of stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

Huh.

[Willow]

Like, that's what I do for work.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude, this is. It's Right. This is from Texas Health and Human Services.

[Willow]

I understand, but when they.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're not providing some information.

[Willow]

No, when they calculate it, they dim it down to whatever you can receive, and then if it's under a certain amount, they won't issue it because it's not worth.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude, you qualify for kids Medicaid in Texas for a family or family 2,900. Okay, well, you said you weren't on other benefits. You're probably not going to be on your own Medicaid because you're not pregnant or disabled. You'd be on WIC if pregnant or postmortem, so. Or if a child is under five of which you have. So actually you could get under WIC. $4,212 a month is the limit for you look into that at least sometimes. Free meals to school. For sure.

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

See Texas, red state. They do lots of things. I pay a lot of taxes for a reason. It's not all evil out here. Utility help. Yes. So you wouldn't even be failing to pay utility.

[Willow]

The problem is, is it's not under my name.

[Caleb Hammer]

$40,000 a year. Okay.

[Willow]

I'm getting it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Housing assistance. Wait list. But yes, you would qualify. But again, you're on your thing. Tnf, Cash assistance.

[Lucas]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Marketplace. Health insurance. Subsidized. But the subsidies are a lot worse these days after last year. And tax credit. Yeah. Big refunds.

[Lucas]

Of course.

[Caleb Hammer]

Child tax credit. Oligarch. Good stuff. Absolutely. So shut the up. Oh, the sun bit was actually him, so I'm crossing that out.

[Willow]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. So this is actually both of you. So I'll look at it. Let's see. Oh, bounce. Negative $162.18. That's great. Start a negative, ended negative and overdraft. So nothing's happening. You're just getting a. You. You know why you overdraft? Because you had a negative balance fee. You're charged for the negative balance. So you got overdraft fee on your charge for having a negative. You guys, why the was there literally hundreds of dollars going out to eat at that? Like, I would totally have sympathy listening to everything here if I saw no spending. But you guys went out to eat like crazy. Going out to you was basically 500 bucks. It's easier all together. We were at minimum $750. Probably close to $1,000.

[Willow]

It's easier because.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it's not. You're actually negative and. Yeah. Learn how to cook. Dude, use my cookbook. Use my cookbook. You get it now? You get it now? Cook, please. You got. Dude, you have to man up and provide somehow. Please, please, please, please.

[Willow]

There's, like, very few things.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no, please.

[Lucas]

I mean, I do cook sometimes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Shit. Okay, we're done. What is this?

[Willow]

That is actually my 401k.

[Caleb Hammer]

$146. I can survive off that. And what's this?

[Willow]

My investments.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why is there Amazon Kids and Disney plus then? What are we talking about? No.

[Willow]

Oh, no. So that's my West Tex. That's like a bank account.

[Caleb Hammer]

How much money's in there?

[Lucas]

I don't think anything.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's not very helpful. Oh, I see. 900. Okay. Monthly goal. 1,000 return for this is.

[Willow]

That's him.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Okay. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna budget you because you need to leave this guy. You need to kick him to the curb. You can go yourself. I hope you turn your life around, but I think it's time to turn your life around with other people. I want you to be there for your kids at some point, but I don't think you guys are meant together. There's just too much trauma here. There's too much. And the finances are a mess. It's time for her to live her life. Find someone that loves her, that doesn't do crazy, horrible things around her. Okay. And if you get good, I want you in your kid's life.

[Lucas]

I mean, I've been working on becoming.

[Caleb Hammer]

Keep working on it.

[Lucas]

Yes, sir.

[Caleb Hammer]

Go to a therapist. The fact that you refuse that is insane. Let's get your budget. Well, your income's nothing. Get on the. Get a dude. Get on the benefits. Like, literally. We have so many scammers on the show. You're not not. You work. Get on them. I want them for you, man. I want you to get you a better job. I'll get you a course career certification as well. 202 is your monthly for a debt because everything else is in, like, collections. Okay. And with the SSI, you're actually. Okay. It's 1749 plus 994. 2,743. Get with someone. I know you're the person that helps deal with some things, but get with someone. Okay. You figured out because I want to put the food bill basically to zero because, like, we'll pay for it.

[Willow]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So that's what I'm going to work into the budget because you actually need to deal with that. And you're gonna get extra cash as well to help. Okay. What's your. What do you have to pay to the mortgage?

[Willow]

Twelve hundred.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Can you just say grandpa, sorry, I can't afford this. Go get into a rental income assistance place. Sorry. Like that or that destroys our budget immediately basically.

[Willow]

But okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Utilities all combined. Internet. It's all good stuff.

[Willow]

Stuff. So including Internet it is. 394.

[Caleb Hammer]

Phone bill.

[Willow]

I don't pay one.

[Caleb Hammer]

Thank gas. Vroom vroom. Drive, drive.

[Willow]

Probably about 250amonth.

[Caleb Hammer]

Car insurance?

[Willow]

As of right now we don't have any.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're driving illegal. Have you had it quoted?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

How much?

[Willow]

Like 202.

[Caleb Hammer]

202?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

You have any pets?

[Willow]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? You can't afford life. What do you have?

[Willow]

Quite a few.

[Caleb Hammer]

What?

[Willow]

Chickens, lizards. Dogs.

[Caleb Hammer]

How many dogs? How many cats?

[Willow]

Three dogs. One cat.

[Caleb Hammer]

Insurance? 200 probably. Unfortunately not gonna be able to do it. Which means they're gonna die if something bad happens because you can't afford to take care of them. TP fund anything else for you and your kids to exist. Toothpaste, toilet paper, all that good stuff. 200. There's not a gym, right?

[Willow]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

CO pays you shouldn't have at your income level.

[Willow]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Stop contributing to all that because you can't survive right now. So just stop contributing. It doesn't make any sense. I know you're trying to for the future doesn't make sense. Just stop. Stop, stop, stop, stop. We're in survival mode.

[Willow]

Okay?

[Caleb Hammer]

I want you to get a better job, of course. But let's get you on as much assistance as possible.

[Lucas]

Bro.

[Caleb Hammer]

Let's finish this budget. The post show is going to be insane. I can already tell anything else that needs to be in this budget that I don't have. How much for pet food? How about that?

[Willow]

That right. About $40 a month.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. I don't even know how it's that

[Lucas]

cheap, but

[Caleb Hammer]

sure they're alive.

[Willow]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. You're just going super, super super cheap. Technically, if we get your groceries paid for and even with pen insurance, you break even, which is all I care about at this point. I would. You don't need to own this house. Your credit barely even matters with because you already have the house, buddy. I would let everything go to. I would go through. No, you don't need to go through bankruptcy. I'd let everything go to collections and ride it the out because you break even and just try to start over. That gets you independence. Kick this out. Get that independence. And you can break even. You need to get on as much assistance as possible. If you have more, you can start paying off debt and save up a fully funded six month emergency fund. Please. This rent situation makes no sense for you. It really doesn't. I would try to get out of it the best you can, but that breaks even. Okay, okay. If you can get on snap. If not. I don't know guys. This is seriously gonna be the craziest posture. I can already tell the amount of notes that I have that we didn't even talk about. That is the most crazy. You showed up to her work one day in her car and your mom was. Oh my goodness. This is insane. There's insane. Let's get the Hammer Financial score first. It's a. I mean it's. It's a zero. There's just. There's nothing. There's nothing. You're not even on the title for the house. There's nothing. Get [e-mail] now. Join us in the post show. An extra 20 minutes of this episode. Three premium shows every single day, Monday through Saturday. You can join here on YouTube by clicking that join button or you can join on the Hammer Elite app or hammer elite.com either way, wherever platform you want to be on, it's the same membership. So thank you for the support. We'll see you in the post show. It's going to be be crazy.

[Willow]

My kids were legally taken from him as well.

[Caleb Hammer]

This man brings no value. How many times has he been. The police called on him.

[Willow]

In our relationship, five or six. This is the most unmotivated person that I think I've ever met. He's. He's even thrown up our kids in the past.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's. I don't know what that means.

[Willow]

The fact that he does not care if he lose access to our kids.

[Lucas]

I was.

[Willow]

He prefers more being with me than our kids.

[Lucas]

No.

[Willow]

And he's told me that multiple times.

[Caleb Hammer]

I just launched the brand new Hammer Elite app available on every major platform. So you can watch every show anywhere you want. You'll get three exclusive dedicated shows every single day, Monday through Saturday. Refer a friend after you sign up and you get an additional 30 days of hammer Elite access.