Controlling Karen Resents Her Deadbeat Husband

Summary

Financial Audit Podcast – Detailed Summary

Episode Title: Controlling Karen Resents Her Deadbeat Husband
Host: Caleb Hammer
Guests: Athena (32), Carter (35)
Air Date: June 10, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode of Financial Audit features married couple Athena and Carter from Oklahoma. Caleb dives into their fraught personal and financial history, exploring complex issues of addiction, relocation, communication breakdowns, financial mismanagement, and their efforts to stabilize their family life—while also contending with deep relational and mental health challenges. Throughout, the couple’s dynamic oscillates between combative, raw honesty and moments of vulnerability, all under the lens of how their finances (and lack of joint planning) reflect these deeper rifts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Relationship & Addiction Background

• Meeting & Marriage: Athena and Carter met while both were in recovery and faith communities; they have been together about seven years.
• Substance Abuse History:
  • Athena: 9 years sober from alcohol; heavily involved in AA and the recovery community.
  • Carter: Multiple addiction phases, including opiates, psychedelics, and currently kratom binges and other low-level dependencies (e.g., energy drinks, video games).
  • Notably, Carter nearly died from substance use four and a half years ago (00:38, 03:34), and Athena claims ongoing fear about his ability to stay sober.
• Strained Relationship: Their history is thick with codependency, mutual attempts at rescuing/change, threats of separation, and recurring cycles of relapse and recovery.

Notable Quote:
"When our daughter was six months old, I found him dead on the floor. And the last thing the ambulance told me is I don't know if he will live or die, but you can follow me." – Athena (03:38)

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2. Personal Challenges & Recent Moves

• Physical & Mental Health Crises:

  • Athena suffered a major stroke, was told to prepare for death, and expresses resentment about Carter’s ability to care for the children if she were to pass.
  • Carter's ongoing addictive personality prompts concern for long-term family stability.

• Family Structure: Three children (ages 3, 4, and 8); oldest daughter currently lives with her father for educational support (11:03).

• Recent Relocation:

  • Family moved from California to Oklahoma about 2.5 months ago, partly due to affordability, job prospects, and interventions from Carter’s family aimed at supporting his sobriety.
  • The move cost $8,000 and left them financially strained, with debts mounting due to unforeseen hotel stays, a new mattress, and ongoing expenses.

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3. Financial Dynamics & Conflicts

• Income & Employment:

  • Carter: Garage flooring installation, $2,600/month after taxes (16:24).
  • Athena: Healing work (including Amazonian spiritual medicine), hairdressing, and side gigs, $1,500/month previously, aiming for $2,000/month (18:38).
  • Both describe side hustles and attempts at increasing income, but inconsistent pay and licensing hurdles post-move have made stability elusive.

• Financial Management:

  • Past bankruptcy (2023) after a failed hair salon business (19:00).
  • Finances are 'combined' but Carter’s spending and lack of oversight drive resentment.
  • Frequent use of credit cards to cover basic expenses and investments in speculative ventures (e.g., Metazoo collectibles).

Host Commentary:
"Guys, we're just beyond unorganized, beyond irresponsible." – Caleb (66:29)

• Spending Habits:
  • Recurring purchases on Amazon, energy drinks, fast food, and video games—even when paying interest on maxed-out cards.
  • Athena admits to reactionary spending fueled by resentment when Carter spends on wants instead of needs.

Notable Quote:
"Why are we still going to Chick Fil A if we don't have money? Why are we shopping on Amazon if we don't have money?" – Caleb (26:56)

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4. Debt & Asset Overview

• Credit Card Debt:

  • Multiple cards, most balances hovering near (or over) $1,000 each, accruing high interest.
  • A PayPal credit line recently paid off using their tax return to avoid deferred interest.
  • Ongoing dependence on Carter’s grandmother for financial bailouts (approximately $3,600 still owed) (60:21).

• Auto Loan:

  • 2020 Kia Telluride, $33,440 balance at 12% interest, worth around $25,000 (significant negative equity).
  • Monthly payments are a struggle but prioritized due to lack of reliable alternative vehicles (35:13, 82:01).

• Other Notable Assets/Debts:

  • Mattress financed: $1,500 with no interest for 12 months, but tight payoff timeline.
  • Motorcycle (Athena’s): Insurance payments continue. Mentioned as essential for sobriety and mobility but not a liquid asset.

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5. Budgeting & Communication Patterns

• Budgeting Efforts:

  • Athena keeps a detailed, handwritten list of bills and minimum payments; attempts monthly sit-downs, which Carter resists (51:54).
  • Disorganization is highlighted by inconsistent record-keeping and confusion over what has been purchased/paid (49:06, 50:45).

• Therapy & Self-Reflection:

  • Repeated failures to attend therapy, mainly due to cost and lack of childcare (13:21).
  • When pressed, Athena and Carter give their household financial score as “3” and “1” out of 10, respectively (22:21).

Notable Moment:
Athena offers sexual incentives to get Carter to engage in financial planning—a sign of the desperation and imbalance in responsibility (52:13).

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6. Speculative Investments & Priorities

• Metazoo Collectible Card Investment:

  • During a period of unexpected COVID-related income, Carter drove speculative purchases of Metazoo cards, which initially appreciated but have now backfired, trapping capital that could have gone to debt repayment or savings (68:42, 69:43).

• Retirement & Savings:

  • No meaningful retirement savings; previous Roth IRA and Marcus account cashed out during crises (69:53).
  • Zero emergency fund currently, reliant on government assistance and family.

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7. Underlying Patterns: Deflection & Responsibility

• Host Observations:

  • Caleb repeatedly calls out both partners—particularly Athena—for deflecting blame and failing to own their roles in a recurring financial and relational chaos. Most bad decisions are rationalized by circumstances, rather than recognized as preventable.
  • Example: Repeatedly blaming circumstances (landlords, health, Carter’s relapses) for insolvency and failed savings (72:26).

• Acknowledgement of Fault:

  • By the end, Athena explicitly takes responsibility for the failed business and spells out her pattern of retaliatory spending, but only after persistent prodding (75:16).

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8. Solutions & Recommendations

• Practical Steps from Caleb:
  • Sit down together and make high-level decisions about where the family wants to settle to enable stable careers.
  • Commit to monthly joint budgeting meetings.
  • Take advantage of free/online counseling and budgeting resources.
  • Use all benefits as intended—properly report income for assistance programs.
  • Prioritize building an emergency fund (aim for $8,000–$9,000, but at their current surplus it would take 2.5 years).
  • Stop speculative spending and focus on stable, practical financial practices.

Notable Quote:
"You need to sit down with each other on a monthly basis, go through the budgeting program together and take the quizzes together." – Caleb (76:53)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Addiction and Family Responsibilities:

  • "It's not like I'm telling you what you can and cannot do, but it's to the point where like you need to make a decision if you just wanna f** around with these things or you wanna be with family."* – Athena (04:14)

• On Financial Consequences:

  • "It's not even close. This is absolute disaster." – Caleb (29:56)
  • "You are not credit card people." – Caleb (27:20)

• On Deflecting Blame:

  • "So it's always someone else's fault. From everything I've heard, it's always something." – Caleb (34:16)

• On Accountability:

  • "What are the actions when you're willing to take responsibility, as you say you are, what was irresponsible that you've messed up, that you are willing to take responsibility for?" – Caleb (73:56)

• On the Severity of Their Situation:

  • "We're just beyond unorganized, beyond irresponsible." – Caleb (66:29)

• Score Reflection:

  • "Hammer financial score: 0.5 out of 10." – Caleb (92:03)

• A Moment of Humor and Humanity:

  • "Ground yourself, man." – Athena (68:01)
  • "Girl, I'm as grounded as I could be. I am right here." – Caleb (68:05)

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Segment Timestamps

• Early Relationship & Substance Abuse: 01:12–07:45
• Financial and Family Tensions: 11:49–17:19
• Move from California to Oklahoma: 14:32–15:39
• Career, Income, and Financial Management: 15:44–24:31
• Debt Breakdown & Spending Patterns: 25:04–58:42
• Budgeting, Benefits, and Emergency Fund Discussion: 76:53–85:08
• Host’s Final Recommendations and Score: 87:55–92:03

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Overall Takeaways

• Disorganization, mutual blame, and past trauma have left Athena and Carter trapped in destructive financial (and relational) cycles.
• Addiction and recovery history deeply influence—not just spending habits—but core trust and responsibility within the relationship.
• Speculative financial moves and emotional spending are exacerbated by lack of clear communication, joint goals, and proper planning.
• Caleb’s repeated push for accountability, structured budgeting, and therapeutic intervention underscores that until the couple addresses root issues, no superficial financial fix will last.

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Final Thought

For listeners, this episode offers a candid window into how financial problems are almost always rooted in deeper relational, behavioral, and mental health patterns—and how real change requires both partners facing uncomfortable truths, together.

Transcript

[Athena]

You say you'll never join the Navy, that living on a submarine would be too hard. You'd never power a whole ship with nuclear energy, never bring a patient back to life or play the national anthem for a sold out crowd. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea.

[Caleb Hammer]

You say you'll never join the Navy. Never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea. To watch episodes of Financial Audit a week earlier, check us out on YouTube.

[Athena]

Hi, my name is Athena and I'm 32 years old.

[Carter]

Hi, my name is Carter and I'm 35 years old. We're based out of Oklahoma and this is Financial Audit.

[Caleb Hammer]

So this has already been interesting because they don't know we just started filming. But the tension's a little high here. It's been a little, little testy here. So we're married, right?

[Athena]

Yes.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so what's going on in general? I guess I may as well just ask that out of the gate so we can get a picture here.

[Athena]

So I love my husband dearly. We've been together almost seven years. We met in May, one year, started dating June, got married in November. We're two months pregnant on purpose. It was now or never for me. When you know, you just kind of know. And he was a very different person back then. But I don't know if life's gotten good and he's self sabotaging, but we've had very big conversations on the fact that like if we don't start to rope this in as a couple and not me just saving us financially, you know, figuratively, then I'm kind of like gotta make decisions on is this marriage. And I like to me marriage is everything. But I can't continue on this path.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you talking about divorce?

[Athena]

I hate to say that word, but it, yeah, it's. It's either looking at that or just a long separation so he can get right and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Long separation, that's some heavy, not specific accusations but saying going down a wrong path or taking some bad things.

[Athena]

So I'm sober nine years. I'm aa, strictly alcohol. I didn't even drink all the time. I just, when I did, you never.

[Caleb Hammer]

Knew it went hard.

[Athena]

Yeah. And I'm military and all that so you know, I. Most people will say I don't need aa. I love aa. I love the community, I love sharing My story with other women. I love men who come in and change their lives around. I love to see women grow. Like I'm a big, very big in the community. Sure as.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Athena]

He was sober for about almost a.

[Carter]

Year and we met like two weeks.

[Athena]

Well, he, we. We met when he was two weeks sober. I didn't want to start this relationship throughout the, the. The time frame of us falling in love through church and through guided people. He asked me to marry him three times and I was like, you know what? This is the path. I don't.

[Caleb Hammer]

With what.

[Athena]

So he's strictly a addict.

[Carter]

Yeah. So mainly at the end.

[Caleb Hammer]

It was at the end of what?

[Carter]

At the end of all my addictions because I went through different phases with different stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

So it's finished.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

No.

[Carter]

Well, I mean I was messing around with psychedelics.

[Athena]

It's not that he messes around. Like when our daughter was six months old, I found him dead on the floor. And the last thing the ambulance told me is I don't know if he will live or die, but you can follow me. Was this about now? Four and a half years.

[Carter]

Right at the start of COVID Right.

[Athena]

At the start of COVID when I had my third baby. We were in the hospital. I was having a very hard delivery and needed him and he said he was coming off of a big binge of. And couldn't. He was sick to his stomach. Couldn't really be there for me. There's been multiple times where we've had these I love you conversations. But we gotta change. We gotta be better for our family. We gotta give our children, you know, the best lives. Like I love you no matter what. And it's not like I'm telling you what you can and cannot do, but it's to the point where like you need to make a decision if you just wanna around with these, these things or you wanna be with family.

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[Athena]

It gets a little crazy. So you don't know my backstory, but.

[Caleb Hammer]

Before we can When's the last time you've done.

[Carter]

Oh, the last time I've done any opiate was that time the four and a half years. That was the time I was like.

[Athena]

So now it's mostly Kratom binges. It could be anything. It could be a Jamba Juice. And he's addicted for that week and nothing is going to stop him. Nobody's going to get in his way.

[Caleb Hammer]

Not children, no idea what the Jamba Juice is. I've never heard.

[Carter]

Never heard of.

[Athena]

Oh, it's. Well, we're originally from California, but it's like a smoothie place. It doesn't matter with. With him.

[Carter]

He's just saying I have an addictive personality to anything.

[Caleb Hammer]

I thought that was a new. Oh yeah, that's been invented.

[Athena]

No, but.

[Caleb Hammer]

So addictive person. I have an addictive personality, which is why I honestly don't allow myself to do a lot of things that fall quickly into addictions. So for you right now, it tends to be, like you said, psychedelics and Kratom. You don't think any of that's going to accidentally lead you to spiral again with these past addictions? If you had relapses of any kind on any or anything.

[Athena]

Well, yeah, when you're in. When you're in sobriety, you're supposed to.

[Carter]

Anything counts. If you go in it with the mindset to get messed up, then how he is a relapse, how he went.

[Athena]

Off on the four and a half years ago was because I brought a bottle of alcohol into the house for ear infections. My Indian client, she recommended it and it worked great. And he didn't think he was an alcoholic, but only addict. He ended up drinking that whole bottle and that's when he.

[Carter]

Yeah, then I doubt the other bad decisions.

[Athena]

But like we've had this heartfelt conversation two weeks ago. I've. I don't think you love me anywhere anymore the same as you did. And that's.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you do? Don't you smoke something?

[Athena]

I Do Hop a.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's that?

[Athena]

So Hoppe is unprocessed tobacco ash and different plants from the Amazon jungle. Now two years ago, about two years ago, I had a massive stroke. And then I had a mini one after that. And they told me I was going to die. There was nothing they could do. We went to the emergency room. We've done all these testings. They gave up on me. They said, plan your burial, plan your life insurance.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're going to die. Whatever.

[Athena]

We both do this. But not the same. See, it's a spiritual plant medicine. I actually work for. For the Kuntanawa tribe in the Amazon jungle. I've been there. I've made Hoppe with them. I spiritually distributed. I'm one of their guardians in the world.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you guys even connected? You seem so apart.

[Athena]

Well, it's. We got in a huge fight two days ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

Two days ago?

[Athena]

I think even yesterday we had a very.

[Caleb Hammer]

You decided to come on the show? Well before that.

[Athena]

Yes.

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[Athena]

It's just. It's just everything for him.

[Carter]

I think it's a lot of stuff built up over.

[Athena]

He says it's the stress.

[Carter]

Little things Will make us blow up. Kind of.

[Athena]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean she called you a head in the pre show interview. Essentially.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

To say when they say like your three dollar drinks are not a necessity. And he's like, well, crack is cheaper but I won't be a present father and you won't have a paycheck coming in.

[Caleb Hammer]

When's the last time you smoke?

[Carter]

I've never smoked crack.

[Athena]

No, it's.

[Carter]

But I don't. I don't do those.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

I don't know the difference. I've never taken calls too.

[Carter]

I did.

[Athena]

He didn't become an adult until two.

[Carter]

Weeks before him when I was like 22 or something. I'm 35 now, so it's been a minute.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, good, good, good, good, good, good. That's what's. That's what's important. You made it sound like via the interviews and stuff that we had that literally he potentially has smoked recently.

[Athena]

No, he didn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Well that's how like it was he his choice.

[Athena]

You can. I don't know if you record the calls was he's been sober. But he did die on me one time.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Athena]

Then I almost died because of health reasons. I scary that by going to an Going into my own body. And I don't believe in any of that stuff. I'm very black and white. I'm very in sobriety. Like no cbd, no nothing like that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure. All.

[Athena]

And now I can't sit here and say that it can't help somebody because it healed me. But I know that if I die tomorrow and there was $500,000 because of my life insurance that I pay. I don't trust him with the kids and doing the right. Making the right decision.

[Caleb Hammer]

How many kids do we have?

[Athena]

We have three. Two together. One previous preview.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who Me. Okay, but three.

[Athena]

But three.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, wonderful.

[Athena]

Ages three, four, seven. I mean eight. Sorry.

[Caleb Hammer]

She's going up pretty young one going to that middle school life.

[Carter]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Pretty soon if not already. Okay. No, pretty soon.

[Athena]

So she's only in second grade at eight.

[Caleb Hammer]

Isn't first grade five? I. I don't know. They're stinky and smelly, so I. I'm.

[Athena]

Not Kindergarten is five.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, this is obviously a financial but it is good to get the background stuff that we've already received on you. So finances in general. Well, first I'm gonna. I'm gonna get a finance score for the household because we're still married. Is. Wait. It's like. Is like the base of this conversation. Like how close are we to divorce? Could this, like, send it towards that edge.

[Athena]

For him, it's never. And for me, it was always, never until, like, I had this. Like I said, I don't think you love me like you used to love me, and that's okay. Maybe there's a woman for you out there. I. I love you too much that.

[Carter]

I don't love her like you used to. I probably don't show it like I used to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why do you think you don't?

[Carter]

Maybe because we're just together all the time with the kids, and I feel like I never get time alone. I'm more introverted and she's more extroverted.

[Athena]

But you also don't want time alone. You'd rather sit there and play video games.

[Carter]

That's my time alone, though. That's, like, where I get to do what I want for me, that makes me happy and fun, like.

[Athena]

And I don't go out and do things for my own. The only thing I go out and to do is help other women stay sober, go to meetings, go to meetings, and every time I walk out the door, try and make money.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

So we're both in a stage where we decided to have these kids together. We said it was gonna be hard. We knew that we weren't gonna have much help, and you signed on for that. And then we had this huge conversation. He cries two weeks ago and then says, I know what I need to do. I need to take something. Something. And I need to go with him. I need to take. What is it? Oh, the kid, 2 CB, whatever. Psychedelic. I don't know.

[Carter]

It's not new. It's just, like, for you.

[Athena]

No, but he needed to go inside himself. And then the next morning he tells me, oh, it told me, I just need to love you more and. But I also need to not quit my games because I'll resent you.

[Carter]

Well, no, you ask, you set your intention, and you go into it. And then during the trip, you. As your mind is wandering these different directions, you realize, like, what it is.

[Athena]

And I can't say that it like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Have you guys seen a therapist?

[Athena]

I have tried for years to go to counsel.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why have you not, then?

[Athena]

He doesn't want somebody to tell him he's wrong.

[Carter]

That's not exactly that.

[Athena]

You said that. Exactly.

[Carter]

We have kids, so we. We don't get a babysitter to have fun. How are we going to get it to do other stuff? We can't even get babysitters right now for both of us to have jobs at the same time.

[Athena]

It's very hard.

[Carter]

So I just don't see how it's.

[Caleb Hammer]

Going to work in house.

[Athena]

Maybe. Well, I also.

[Caleb Hammer]

Someone who could come to you.

[Carter]

Oh.

[Athena]

I also suggested that we can go one on one, but again, too expensive. We don't have money for that.

[Caleb Hammer]

I would rather you guys go together.

[Athena]

World of Warcraft. We have money for stupid. Like I've tried this for my wife. I got one massage this year. No, we're going to go into this because he can't seem to let it go. I got one massage this year. Okay. And every birthday, every Christmas, every Mother's Day Day, I'm gifted gifts from other. Other people because he never gives me anything. Okay. He goes, oh, I didn't have any money. Or I couldn't. Or I couldn't write you something.

[Caleb Hammer]

I didn't have any money. You guys. Are you not combined?

[Athena]

We are combined, but he just spends. He just spends.

[Carter]

She makes it sound like I spend way more. If you look since we moved to Oklahoma and I get it. Only spent stuff since Oklahoma. Maybe like we moved from California. 25 bucks on the game one time.

[Athena]

So we spent about $8,000 to move here.

[Carter]

But that buried us. The move.

[Athena]

But why didn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

When was the move?

[Athena]

Two and a half months ago.

[Carter]

February.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, wow. And why was the move.

[Athena]

Why was the move. Why are we not going to. Our original plan to go see my daughter in Florida and be with my daughter.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is this one. Is this another one or is that.

[Athena]

My daughter, the 8 year old? She lives with her dad right now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Okay.

[Athena]

She has dyslexia and they're trying to get her extra help that we can't afford.

[Carter]

Yeah. Her dad makes more money and we.

[Athena]

Were supposed to go straight to Florida. We agreed on this as a family, like, you know, us, like, how do you call it? The initial family. And then he went on a binge with me and saying he was going to go within himself. And he never uses it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Going inside ourselves. That's very interesting.

[Athena]

He never uses anything like it's meant to be done. I can't sit here and say it doesn't work for some people. The people out there getting help with it. I've seen it cure PTSDs. I've seen it do a lot of things. It saved my freaking life. I'm not going to sit here and judge you if you need to go do it. But all I've seen is he went into a for 20 something hours. He fried his brain. And his grandma was like, you need to go to your dad. And in Oklahoma. And you need to. He's got a job for you, which he didn't have a job for him, but he got him a job.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, okay.

[Athena]

That's where we're at. So now I'm screwed. My hair license hasn't transferred.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

And I don't have a job right now. So I'm making money. I have a little book. I've made a thousand, almost $2,000 this month with my kids in my hand. So I don't want to hear you don't make money. You don't try. And you don't have a job, because even on the sidelines do not have a job.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do I do right now?

[Carter]

She does a bunch of.

[Athena]

I do healing.

[Carter]

I do floors.

[Athena]

And I don't like to say I'm a healer. I'm not that I do healing with the hoppe. I go.

[Caleb Hammer]

I've the tobacco.

[Athena]

I've helped a lot of women and men.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. And you do floors?

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like flooring.

[Carter]

It's not epoxy. It's a different polyurea, I think. But it's the flake in the garage.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes. How much do you make a month?

[Carter]

About. What was it, like, 2600?

[Athena]

He. Yeah, he dropped his pay for 3000.

[Carter]

But after the taxes and stuff, it's like.

[Athena]

He used to get paid $35.

[Caleb Hammer]

Now that's gonna happen. California's cost of living.

[Athena]

But he's also so good. And as a wife, you know, you want to. You want the best for your spouse and you, You. You commit them and you push them to do better. And he even started his own little company in California. And then it kind of seemed like he.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why Oklahoma?

[Athena]

Because his dad's here and his dad is supposed to set him straight.

[Carter]

So the main reason was I came straight into a job, which that's not the main reason.

[Athena]

The main reason was everybody was worried that you're going to go out and use again.

[Carter]

But that's why Oklahoma was. We needed to work. If we went to Florida, I would have my hair. You had no guarantee.

[Athena]

I would have my hair license right away. Because you don't need.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you not afraid that the stress of this, this back and forth, this fighting, it is going to lead to any. Because you just said the fear is that he would go back into using something.

[Athena]

But it's your choice at this point. You have a. You have an obligation to your wife and to your kids, just like I have an obligation to you. And if you're not stressed out, he needed a reason to do it. So what's your excuse now?

[Carter]

Well, I'm not gonna do it this time because I've learned a lot from all my pastimes.

[Athena]

You know how many times I've heard that?

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know. It just makes me a little nervous because I think the successful rate of people getting off of opiates is about 1%.

[Athena]

And I've seen it happen over and over. I've seen successes. I've been one of the successes through alcohol. I get it's not the same as.

[Caleb Hammer]

But it's not. It's. It's.

[Athena]

It's harder. I get that. And that's why I don't.

[Caleb Hammer]

For alcohol. It doesn't work for opiates.

[Athena]

Well, there's Naomi.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Athena]

And AA is part of na, and actually, a lot of people that go to NA don't have a success rate, so they go to aa and they were able to quit because AA is stricter and AA has different guidelines. And all I'm saying is I love you dearly. And we don't usually bicker this much about it, but it's all been coming out, and I'm very soon.

[Caleb Hammer]

We're not happy in Oklahoma.

[Athena]

I can make it work. Like, I just. I was crying about it, but then I'm like, you know what? My life's here. My husband's here. I will find a way to provide. Bring my daughter here if she wants to come over here. Her dad said she's going to leave it to her, as, you know, when she gets to a reasonable age, like 11, if she wants to be with.

[Caleb Hammer]

Mom still trying to loop us back to finance. What do you bring in? Normally, averagely. It sounds like maybe we've had a good month, but normally. What's your average monthly?

[Athena]

Before that was 1500 with no job, too.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so let's say 15 then.

[Athena]

But yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you setting anything aside for taxes?

[Athena]

Not yet. Why? Because I have no spare money. Because I gave the finance.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that's not spare money. Regardless. Okay, so that's money you owe.

[Athena]

I gave the finances back to him after my stroke. After I filed for bankruptcy, we tried bankruptcy. Yeah, I filed for bankruptcy.

[Caleb Hammer]

When did you file for bankruptcy?

[Athena]

2000. The beginning of 2023. We. After.

[Caleb Hammer]

I got a year ago.

[Athena]

A year and a half, maybe. It's Maybe almost two years now. Yeah, we.

[Caleb Hammer]

Explains why the majority of the debts in your name and not yours. But.

[Athena]

Well, no, I paid off most of his debt. We put everything on to mine. We. We were gonna pay it off. We started a bigger hair Salon. I had a business.

[Carter]

Yeah, I had a successful business for seven years. Like she wanted to move to her own suite out of the landlord mini.

[Athena]

Ones and kind of this over. He said he doesn't work with women.

[Carter]

It ended up costing us a ton of money.

[Athena]

The roof started leaking. There was no hot water. We were bind into this, but luckily I fought for it. We got out of it. But initially my biggest regret, which still. It's a learning lesson. It's not a regret is I didn't hire like a lawyer to look at the contract. So it said I was responsible for roof and everything, even though it's his responsibility.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. How many hours a week do you work right now?

[Athena]

I don't. Well, like on the side.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Well, yeah. That's your income.

[Athena]

I usually make about $100 an hour.

[Caleb Hammer]

So 15 hours a week. You.

[Carter]

Me, I get paid for 40, but I usually work about 30 maybe.

[Caleb Hammer]

Now, one thing that did concern me a little. I don't. I just have to call this out of just like a high horse thing. We talk about what we do in each other's free times and you say, well, you play video games while I go and volunteer. Like, if you're choosing to volunteer, that's great, but I don't. I don't think. I don't think it's fair to say, okay, because I'm doing this high and mighty thing. It's bad that the other person.

[Athena]

No. So volunteering, like for my sobriety, going to meetings does not count as fun time. It's. It's for our sobriety. It is essential. Well, you have.

[Caleb Hammer]

You guys made it sound. That's what you do when you have free time, though.

[Athena]

Well, because.

[Carter]

Well, that's. She watches.

[Caleb Hammer]

And also there are like. When we're talking about seeing therapists and stuff. I mean, since COVID everything's has remote options just on a webcam.

[Athena]

Our kids are very wild, so it's very hard.

[Caleb Hammer]

Something tells me. Something tells me a marriage therapist will be okay with you having to get up every once in a while and be like, yo.

[Carter]

Yeah, I don't think he's. They are pretty.

[Athena]

They're wild and free.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm very fine never meeting them as well.

[Carter]

Yeah. But no, we almost had to bring.

[Athena]

Them because we got canceled on like seven times for babysitters. Like, really?

[Caleb Hammer]

So you got babysitters this time?

[Athena]

We got a babysitter.

[Caleb Hammer]

You said you wanted to be close for your parents. Can they not help at all?

[Athena]

His dad just had a baby.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

So he's in his own little world right now.

[Carter]

He made it sound like he would, and then he doesn't so much.

[Athena]

His. His.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's preventing us from getting to Florida if that's the main goal?

[Athena]

He relapsed.

[Carter]

Moving costs again.

[Caleb Hammer]

Relapsed.

[Athena]

He relapsed.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you said you didn't relapse.

[Carter]

No, that was my grandma's the last time.

[Athena]

Well, it's not a relapse. He relapsed on a bunch of and psychedelics and fried his brain. I moved out. I said I'm not staying here. I'm not watching this. I'll take my kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hey, this is insane. Okay, When's the last time you did that?

[Carter]

That. That time.

[Caleb Hammer]

When was that?

[Carter]

A couple weeks ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. All right. Household score. I want you to say it at the same time. I'm gonna go. 3, 2, 1, go. @ go. You are gonna give me what you think the household financial score is.0 being the worst possible score, 10 being the best possible score. So I'm gonna count down and I want you to give it to me at the same time. Three, two, one.

[Athena]

Three.

[Carter]

I'd say a one, maybe.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

This is different than those first seven when we came here.

[Carter]

Yeah, that's because I watched the show and I saw you prepared.

[Athena]

Yeah.

[Carter]

I was like, no.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why do you think it's worse? Why do you think it's better?

[Athena]

I only think it's a three because I've been on my own since I was 17 and what you guys have.

[Caleb Hammer]

Been married for, like.

[Athena]

But I've been on my own without my parents.

[Carter]

Yeah, she moved out of her parents house early in the.

[Caleb Hammer]

At 17, you said?

[Athena]

Yeah, at 17. Okay. So one year I raised a baby as a single mother. Her dad separated. Yeah. I've always paid my bills on time before the bankruptcy went.

[Caleb Hammer]

How does this make you a three?

[Athena]

Because I survived and I still. I find ways to go out and make it. So I know financially we're.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but this, it's literally a score of where you're at, not, oh, where we're at now. Powerful you are. What?

[Athena]

No, it's not that I'm powerful. I'm just saying, like, I've. I've managed to not miss a payment. Like, I've always paid everything.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that's the bare minimum. That's why they're called minimum monthly payments.

[Athena]

When he adds debt and then I don't see it, and then I have to pay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, what, you go out and add that?

[Carter]

She doesn't even add that, though. She keeps. If you look, you see through ourselves. Go through it. You can see what I've spent.

[Athena]

Maybe like we both don't spend any more.

[Carter]

200 frivolously. This since we moved to Oklahoma.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you want your Hammer Financial score, it's free. Description below. And if you want to come on and also not bring your children, make sure you apply@caleb hammer.com apply. Okay, let's. Let's. Let's go into this. So we're gonna go through yours first and hers and then some of the combined accounts.

[Carter]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

And just clarify if we've just got it slightly wrong about who's on what account. Just feel free.

[Athena]

But we're on both.

[Carter]

Yeah, we both use both. So however.

[Caleb Hammer]

So they're on both your credits.

[Athena]

Yeah, well, sleep for mine is for, you know, hair stuff and business, which, again, I usually pay off right away. But then when I started taking the finances back, when I started watching this show and I started looking in, he didn't even know when his payments were. And there was some deferred interest that he signed up for.

[Caleb Hammer]

Have you ever taken care of your finances, ever?

[Carter]

Slightly. I set up auto pay. Why did you take care of it?

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, why'd you take. So you took over because of the stroke?

[Carter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Athena]

Before that, I was managing everything.

[Caleb Hammer]

When was the stroke?

[Athena]

One more time, about two years ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, when were you just back to.

[Athena]

I mean, I just took him back like around six months ago when I found out he had this Deferred interest for PayPal. Deferred interest for best.

[Caleb Hammer]

So what were you doing?

[Carter]

Well, some of that was her purchases. All my account.

[Athena]

Some of them were mine, but when they just.

[Carter]

It's like six months. Some of them were a year later.

[Athena]

So you forget about responsibility like I told you. And I tell you.

[Carter]

And then she said, why didn't I pay more than the minimum? I'm like, we had no money to pay more than the minimum.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why do you guys have no money? Why do you guys have no money?

[Athena]

Every time we do have money, he thinks it's like, okay, we can go out and eat. We can go get on my Red Bulls. Especially in California, my yerba mates, every single day. Like, I used to drink. What do you call it? Starbies a lot. And I stopped because my family's more important.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, okay. City Diamond, City Diamond. Let's get into the money. City Diamond. 1,600. This is tough Love dollars.

[Athena]

Just so you know, I love him to death. I know I sound. But I just. It's like a heart.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know, we've talked.

[Carter]

She makes me look so bad. It's so funny.

[Athena]

It's not that great. Like, would you. I've never lied to you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, to be very clear, being bad with finances doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. Unless. Unless you're putting yourself over someone else or other people. So it's not like considering each other bad people in this sense. 16.87.8 2. Minimum monthly payment 56.3 1. But again, yes, if we're putting over, like our children and stuff. Yes, that would make you a better.

[Athena]

Like we had assistance for food and he would spend a lot of it on energy drinks. And to me, that's. That's like you have to make a sacrifice of not drinking that.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

And providing for.

[Carter]

Why do you have to go to work and maybe we make drinks. So I said, I tell him the joke. I told her, I said, it's cheaper than.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, great.

[Athena]

And at least he'll be president Paycheck. But that's his humor. And it's wonderful. It's humorous to most people.

[Carter]

It's funny to me because that's not. I'm not addicted to it anymore. But if I said that years ago, it wouldn't have been as funny.

[Athena]

But you are addicted to. To yerba mates.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you have to okay a. $43 of purchases only making the minimum payment and $40 of interest accrued. Amazon Prime. Amazon Prime, Apple Bill and Chick Fil A. Why are we still going to Chick Fil A if we don't have money? Why do we. Where are we shopping on Amazon if we don't have money? Why are we getting things on Apple in app purchases if we don't have money?

[Athena]

We don't go to Chick Fil A anymore. Oh, yeah, Amazon.

[Caleb Hammer]

Really? Because that's the most recent statement. That's literally within the most recent. Chick Fil a is where he went. Where do you think he went? It's Chick Fil A.

[Carter]

That's you.

[Athena]

Okay, Take a chill pill. Bring it down. I love you. But Amazon Prime. So I've never ordered anything. But he says we pay something because of.

[Caleb Hammer]

There's two things on that ad.

[Carter]

Free, stupid.

[Caleb Hammer]

Two things.

[Athena]

I told you to delete that. Watch your ads. I watched the show Taquitos.

[Carter]

Yeah, I did. I did put that one on there.

[Athena]

This is all you.

[Carter]

And then Apple music. It's. That's probably what that is. What the.

[Athena]

I will say, though. I've. I've. I will say open up your subscriptions.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's on your Phone he wanted.

[Carter]

It might be her extra space on her phone because she fills it up. That might be what that is Discover.

[Athena]

Discover was all the movie. I actually paid off that card.

[Carter]

We had it paid off and then we moved.

[Athena]

And it's Max moving truck alone was.

[Caleb Hammer]

But it wasn't even just that because then you went 2238 of purchases right now. Right now.

[Athena]

We didn't have a place to live for the first four days.

[Caleb Hammer]

So 7,000. You guys weren't ready to move. You had to move that urgently?

[Athena]

We had. Our. Our LA apartment was infested with cockroaches. They deemed it unlivable. We came back from a healing convention.

[Caleb Hammer]

There's no legal requirement for them to find you an alternative.

[Athena]

They. They were supposed to, but they were shady as well.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then you.

[Athena]

There was not the only thing I tried to. I tried to contact the. What do you call it?

[Carter]

The.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is starting to sound like the.

[Athena]

The people upstairs contacted them. So I was like, I will with you. And they got him out and they screwed him over and our water was off every other day. And having they did that for this.

[Caleb Hammer]

Conversation immediately already sounds like the. Okay, well, here's the thing. Oh, that doesn't work because of this. Oh, here's the thing. Oh, that doesn't work because of this. So it's like the immediate. Nothing ever works.

[Athena]

So when you put. I put in the paperwork. Right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Athena]

With the people. I told them it is infested with cockroaches. They said they have no choice but to wait 30 more days. All of our stuff got ruined. If we would have stayed there 30 more days with cockroaches running around in daylight.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you still spent hotel money and this stuff. Could you not spend hotel money at that area? In that area for the 30 days?

[Athena]

I would have loved to stay. I would have loved to stay if we were supposed to meet. But we made a decision for my daughter who's 8 years old and needs it.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you didn't make it to Florida?

[Athena]

We didn't make it to Florida because.

[Carter]

I'll say. Why. Because I didn't want to move there with no job, nowhere to live and not even my dad. At least with my dad we could stay there a little bit. In Florida we have.

[Athena]

We could only stay three days and then he was gone.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

So.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, geez. 142. Always make it work on this again. $2,238 of purchases. 113.89 of interest rate Guys use in fizz card if you're gonna use a card. This is not. You are not credit card people. It's not even close. This is absolute disaster. Oh, this is just for road because we needed somewhere to stay. We're going to get Thai cuisine and then. Yes, there. He spent 117 staying somewhere. But then Chick Fil A Nicoles and Water Burger and Amazon.

[Athena]

More Amazon.

[Caleb Hammer]

Remember the last one? It was just one Amazon ad free thing. Well, there's more Amazon Mattress Clinic. Did we go and get a new mattress?

[Athena]

Yeah, we had to because it was cockroachy every. Even our couch. But we saved.

[Caleb Hammer]

We could have got a cheaper mattress though.

[Athena]

It was on me. We. I told him we could get the blow up one for like 400. But we had already been sleeping on the floor for four months at his grandma's, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

So sacrifice for another four.

[Athena]

You.

[Caleb Hammer]

You just did it.

[Athena]

I did say that, but he said listen is okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you said it was on you and now you're saying it's on him.

[Athena]

No, I want. I wanted a nicer bed because I think I enable him. Like I just want him to live the best life.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, best life included sushi and hibachi. And Buffy Inc. $251 comforter. Comforter.

[Athena]

Oh yeah. His grandma paid for that. She paid us back.

[Caleb Hammer]

Great.

[Athena]

Cuz he had to have his blankie.

[Carter]

B, wasn't that you?

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you guys.

[Athena]

I'm pretty sure you said I want my blankets.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then one of two within your statement salon visits that over are a hundred dollars. Even though you know how to do things. But we go yeah, $124.

[Athena]

Honey, I own a business. That's me buying products and selling them.

[Carter]

That's where you buy all those dyes.

[Athena]

I have never paid for my nails, hair, anything. I do everything myself.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, good. That's what I was about to be on you about.

[Athena]

Excuse me? I lied. I got my nails done one time because she did them for free for two and a half years. I paid her one time when I went to la.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's pretty cool.

[Athena]

And she only gave me. She made me pay $40 and I was happy to pay it. Two years of free nails.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, what do we have this car? A 2020 Kia Telluride. Telluride. I don't know the Tell Telly. Look up a picture.

[Athena]

It's a very good car. Our car got total. He got smashed into and pushed into a semi and.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm glad you're okay.

[Athena]

It totaled our car. We waited a long time to find a new car, but eventually it came to the day where grandma said, you got to find your guys's car. And I went to a dealership and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait, why does Grandma.

[Athena]

Because she lent us her.

[Carter]

Had it for a few weeks and she wanted it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Expensive car.

[Athena]

Actually, we got a really great deal on it. Yes. The interest is.

[Caleb Hammer]

I've heard a lot of people say that. And we're at 72 months.

[Athena]

I lowered it like $4,000 from what they wanted, and they were the only person actually in LA.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you lowered it by 4,000, girl. They're not going to take a loss on it. I know, buddy. No, I baked in.

[Athena]

No, they. He. The guy who was trying to sell it to me was like, my boss would never go for that. Crazy. So I walked right up to your.

[Caleb Hammer]

Box, which is what every car salesman says in the history of the world.

[Athena]

No, he was very angry. I walked right up to the back office and I said, hey. And he's like, you know, I like you, buddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

I've worked in sales. I've played that game a thousand.

[Athena]

I'm sure. I'm sure there's a game to it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, oh, my God, my boss would never allow this. Don't talk to my boss. Please don't talk to my boss over there, who will definitely not do this.

[Athena]

Angry was that guy.

[Carter]

I don't really remember. I don't know which one. There's like five.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, my gosh. I'm so angry that my boss just helped me close this sale. Gosh, I can't believe you just got this deal.

[Athena]

Oh, man.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's how he was. And I mean, we're. We're guessing the interest rate's like 16. What is it?

[Athena]

No, 12, I think, or less than.

[Carter]

That was it?

[Athena]

It was. I had to be under his credit because I filed for bankruptcy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, we know for sure?

[Athena]

Yes, I'm pretty certain it's 12.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's not on this paper.

[Athena]

We did have a smaller car before I got totaled, but our car seats wouldn't actually close on the door because we had three car seats. So it's actually.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, yeah, it's not even an option.

[Athena]

Well, back then we. We had less debt, too. So back then.

[Caleb Hammer]

Back when?

[Athena]

Year 2020. After I filed for the bank. But right before. No, after I filed for the bankruptcy, yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you just declared bankruptcy and you thought you were good with finances?

[Athena]

Well, again, I was that. It was all for business. But before that, I had 32 credit cards. I paid them all on time, never had interest on any of them.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you went through bankruptcy?

[Athena]

I yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

So.

[Athena]

And I'm not ashamed of it, because.

[Caleb Hammer]

It'S not about a shame thing, but it's like saying we were good.

[Athena]

We were. How good was I with the finances before we went through bankruptcy? Before we got.

[Caleb Hammer]

Before we went through bankruptcy?

[Carter]

Well, the thing that bankrupted her was the slud.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. So it sounds like we weren't a good business owner.

[Athena]

No, it was the. The building they literally put heads in. They.

[Caleb Hammer]

So it's always someone else's.

[Athena]

No, they.

[Caleb Hammer]

From everything I've heard, it's always something.

[Athena]

They collapsed the roof with water. Water came out on us.

[Caleb Hammer]

Where was your insurance?

[Athena]

I had insurance.

[Caleb Hammer]

So again, everything's always someone else's.

[Athena]

No, we called our insurance, and they said, you are not covered for this building. And I said, but I have it under this.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then you didn't do your insurance correctly. You didn't do due diligence.

[Athena]

They refunded me, though. They refunded me. Said so. Sorry. We don't know what happened. There was a glitch. You did it online when we called you. Something happened, but we are not responsible.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because I have, like, a business attorney look over it.

[Athena]

What can you do?

[Caleb Hammer]

Have a business attorney look over it.

[Athena]

But you have to pay money.

[Caleb Hammer]

When you. Before you signed your insurance to make sure you're.

[Athena]

Oh, no, I just went through the actual insurance. I just signed up that day. Remember the day I got this lawn? I signed up for it.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

And they told me, okay, we're gonna refund you all the stuff that just happened. And then they called us and said, sorry, you're not covered.

[Carter]

Well, they're. They always try to get out of it.

[Caleb Hammer]

It says insurance is always a battle. It's a fight.

[Carter]

And I says, 12 on the car.

[Caleb Hammer]

12.

[Carter]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

So this is our good deal. Car 12, 739. Minimum payment is 72 months with a balance of 33, 440. Good deal. Okay. Do we have a VIN? Do we have anything? Have you given us the VIN? Can you get us the VIN? We have the VIN.

[Athena]

I sent it to them. Would you like me to just look it up again?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yep. Nope. They're calculating right now. We're gonna get what you think. How was the condition of the car? How are we looking?

[Athena]

Pretty good. Besides, he. He used to park on top of my motorcycle handle, so there's a few scratches in the front, but that's.

[Carter]

Oh, they're the kids of the inside.

[Caleb Hammer]

How are we doing making these payments? Because this is a large, chunky payment.

[Athena]

It is. So we are doing good. Making that we actually tried to make an extra payment and then when we called them and said, how do you make the extra payment on just the principal? They said, just pay it. We did. And then they took interest.

[Carter]

They just kept. If you have to send them an actual physical check, otherwise they just keep putting it through there and taking their interest out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Interesting.

[Carter]

So the. Yeah, if you don't send it in, then they're getting their money.

[Athena]

Now, I hate saying this is my fault, but when I got sick, I upped my life insurance.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because you hate saying something's your fault.

[Athena]

No, I just hate saying that like it's my fault that I got sick. Oh, because you can't control that, right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, sure.

[Athena]

Can't control having a stroke, whatever. But I upped my life insurance because.

[Caleb Hammer]

Were you doing anything that was like, physically unhealthy, like smoking, anything like that?

[Athena]

I don't drink. I don't smoke at all.

[Caleb Hammer]

You did for a while though, right?

[Carter]

Well, yeah, she used to.

[Athena]

Very rarely, though. I never.

[Caleb Hammer]

I do tend to agree with you. I just. I always play devil's advocate. I mean, there are lifestyle things that we can do that make it less.

[Athena]

They actually couldn't figure out why. They even said it was really rare.

[Caleb Hammer]

But again, I'm not saying that in your situation, but just because you said we can never control getting sick, it's like, yeah, okay, I mean, I can control me having less chance of having heart disease, but I'm a fat. It's like, can't stop shoving McFry's down his throat. So like, yes, I do have more control on that.

[Athena]

No, no, of course. Oh, but I'm talking about like a seizure or like, you know, I'm just.

[Caleb Hammer]

A natural devil's advocate.

[Athena]

It's okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you're a business owner, I have something for you that could instantly slash your operation costs. I'm talking about NetSuite by Oracle. Let me break it down. Net Suite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR all into one platform and one source of truth. Think of it like the Swiss army knife for your business. With NetSuite, you reduce it costs big time. It's all cloud based, so no fancy hardware needed. Just log in from anywhere and boom, you're in business. And let's face it, managing a ton of different systems is a hassle. And it's not cheap either. You cut the cost of maintaining multiple systems because NetSuite gives you one unified business management suite. Plus, you improve efficiency by bringing all of your major business processes into one Platform slashing, manual tasks and errors. That means less. Less time dealing with headaches and more time working on your business. Don't just take my word for it. Over 37,000 companies have already made the move. They did the math and profits are real. So by popular demand, netsuite has extended their flexible program for a few more weeks. Head over to netsuite.com/ to get details. That's netsuite.com/ start cutting costs and boosting business performance today. Trust me, your future self will thank you.

[Athena]

I upped my life insurance, and so I'm still trying to understand it. I pay a lot a month, but also my daughter, when she went with her dad, I needed life insurance on them because she's on planes. A lot of planes. Going back and forth. She was. And so I just want so the safest travel method. He's just lazy. He would rather.

[Caleb Hammer]

Now it's about him, not planes.

[Athena]

I. I actually were gonna go pick her up and he was like, no, that's not a good idea. You should just have me fly her out. Like, why would you drive saying planes.

[Carter]

Are the safest travel method? So why did she.

[Athena]

Oh, why are this. Are they the safest? Oh, I don't know.

[Carter]

It's just statistically, they are, so.

[Athena]

Oh, well, that's great. But as a mother and you want to, if anything ever happened to your children, be able to bury them without donations?

[Caleb Hammer]

No, of course. But you did that because she's on planes.

[Carter]

Well, she worries about planes a lot.

[Athena]

No, not really. But I upped her insurance when she got started going on planes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Okay.

[Athena]

I opted from 50,000 to, I think a hundred thousand.

[Caleb Hammer]

Now where do we get the money to pay off this PayPal credit? Because it was a chunky thing and then it just got paid off.

[Athena]

We got a tax return, and when I saw the deferred interest, he said, let's just let it slide. And I said, absolutely not. We'll just.

[Caleb Hammer]

We'll make tax return. Probably with. It was decent child tax credits.

[Athena]

And they're actually missed. They missed.

[Carter]

I just got a letter. They're gonna send me like 3,000.

[Athena]

Yeah, they messed up. We didn't get. I thought.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you fully claim all your taxes, though? Because I know you're not setting anything aside for taxes right now.

[Athena]

Yes. I don't. I didn't.

[Carter]

Yeah, I claimed my.

[Athena]

I claimed all mine. Yeah, I claim everything. My Venmo.

[Caleb Hammer]

Everything you're going to be claiming this year. Because I do.

[Athena]

I don't cheat the system. I just don't I don't like to.

[Carter]

She has a good tax.

[Caleb Hammer]

I hope not.

[Carter]

I have a really good tax lady.

[Athena]

Though, and I do put a lot of my own, like, as a business owner.

[Caleb Hammer]

Also, you're underwater in your car by $8,000. It's worth $25,000.

[Athena]

Yeah. Okay.

[Carter]

That's what I looked up all the way here.

[Athena]

We love our car, and we're willing to work harder to pay it off faster and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, nothing like an engine surrounded by some pieces of metal to fall in love with. That is the American way, ladies and gentlemen.

[Carter]

It's comfortable to drive, though.

[Caleb Hammer]

Great.

[Athena]

We're absolutely grateful we have a car.

[Caleb Hammer]

Good. I would take the. That. That makes sense. Why did you decide to throw the.

[Carter]

The.

[Caleb Hammer]

The tax credits and everything? The refund you got, the deferred interest.

[Athena]

Was like 300 something dollars if we didn't pay it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

So I said, it's like.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

I said, let's make a sacrifice. Then here comes his Best Buy bill. And he said, more deferred interest. And so I just paid 300 something on that. So our checking account for, like, the last week has been 22.33. And I'm willing to make sacrifices. It's no problem for me. But here we are. Needed a Red Bull today. I love you.

[Caleb Hammer]

So is. It. Is. It's painful.

[Carter]

And she said, buy the three for eight. Oh, blank.

[Athena]

No, I just said, I know you're gonna buy one on the way home, so please just.

[Carter]

Oh, my gosh.

[Athena]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is there a balance on this card right now?

[Athena]

On which one?

[Caleb Hammer]

Which PayPal credit?

[Athena]

I don't think. I think the Deferred interest was 2,000. You gotta tell them.

[Carter]

I think we paid it all off. And then I may have used it a couple times for, like.

[Caleb Hammer]

That was the. That.

[Athena]

That.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can I see it? Can you pull it up?

[Carter]

Yeah. It might have been, like, food or something.

[Athena]

So he thinks Brahms is $9 for a bag of burgers. And it is true. Like, it's cheaper. I've gotten hot dogs.

[Caleb Hammer]

You guys go to Brahms all the time?

[Athena]

Not. Not until we moved. But I don't eat meat, actually, so I'm not eating any of that. Just so you know. I just. I'm a vegan, okay? And I love me.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's the most vegan thing you've ever said. Like, every vegan has to somehow announce in the conversation that they're vegan. Like, that had nothing to do with this entire conversation.

[Athena]

No, but you said you guys keep going to Brahms and you like Brahms.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don' Mom's only meat.

[Carter]

Yeah, it's like only hamburgers and chicken.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's all it is.

[Athena]

That's all it is. Unless you want ice cream. I don't do dairy either, so. Okay.

[Carter]

Stairs.

[Caleb Hammer]

Maybe it's the one time a vegan calling themselves out. Being a vegan made sense then.

[Carter]

Well, she eats chick fil a too.

[Athena]

Well, I used to, not anymore. They actually changed their meat company sometimes. Listen, if I'm starving and, and I could eat rice and beans. I've done it in the Amazon jungle for two weeks. I. I've done it in Peru. My mom lived in a third world country. I've been to that country. I've lived out there. I could eat beans and rice every day. I can make my family beans and rice every day. He thinks that I am punishing our family by making by rice and beans. It's. It will not feed him.

[Caleb Hammer]

When did you go to the jungle?

[Athena]

Last year. I'm a guardian.

[Caleb Hammer]

How did you afford to go to the jungle?

[Athena]

Obviously credit cards.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so you couldn't afford to go to the jungle.

[Athena]

Well, no, I paid most of 78. I've.

[Caleb Hammer]

We still have a lot of credit card debt so. No, we couldn't afford it.

[Carter]

That's what's up.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can I see what the purchases were on?

[Carter]

Yeah, I could tell you it was World of Warcraft. It it auto renewed without me knowing. I swear to God.

[Athena]

And you see my hobbies are free.

[Carter]

I don't pay attention to it. And then I noticed it like a couple weeks after it auto renew.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't mind play without spending. Is is the online service is that.

[Carter]

Yeah, you just. It's a monthly service fee that you have to pay and it's cheaper if you pay. I paid six months in advance because it's $12 instead of 15.

[Athena]

I don't mind hobbies when we have money. I. I get it and I don't mind alone time. But he is alone time ends up being 3:30 in the morning. He has to go to work or this last night he played till what time?

[Carter]

Only 3:30 and we had to leave. I couldn't sleep though. Well, you move my thing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I mean. I mean what was the impact on you in that situation?

[Athena]

Well, the fact that I have to deal with the kids and I have 3:30.

[Carter]

I get up and I do the stuff that I'm supposed to do.

[Athena]

I go to bed.

[Caleb Hammer]

He if he does and I put.

[Carter]

Them to bed last night I put him to bed too.

[Athena]

What are you talking about?

[Carter]

Oh my gosh oh, you put one of them.

[Caleb Hammer]

But all I'm saying is, like, who gives a? Like, I. I mean, I. I give a.

[Carter]

He doesn't want to go to work.

[Caleb Hammer]

If he still does what he needs to do, who cares?

[Athena]

But he doesn't. When he starts.

[Caleb Hammer]

He just said he did though.

[Athena]

He starts and then the next day.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, well, he literally just said he did.

[Athena]

So I don't know what I'm doing. He'll start something, right? And then he'll be like, oh, it's just today and today, right? And then it slowly goes. And then it's all of a sudden. I'm tired. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. Like, you guys are stre me out while you played video games all night. You weren't responsible now. But I have to take care of.

[Carter]

I only do that once or twice a week. I don't do that every night. Okay.

[Athena]

What?

[Caleb Hammer]

You. What? Why? What are you doing?

[Athena]

I have a gift.

[Caleb Hammer]

X Men. What? What is this?

[Athena]

So I am not of this earth. I am in human form.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Athena]

Okay, listen, listen, listen. One second. Okay? I know you hate the whole healing things. I'm not pretending to be a shaman. I'm not pretending to be anything. I am helping the Amazon jungle be restored. I am a guardian for them. I believe in indigenous helping. I believe in the people. I use their medicine. And I have healed and helped over 60 people so far in the eight months that I have done this. I didn't ask for this. It is just part of me.

[Carter]

Oh. She was against it, but I first.

[Athena]

Oh, you can ask some stories. I see dead people now. I don't choose to see it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Be a mental health specialist or something. If you see dead people, why?

[Athena]

If it's helping somebody and I pass on a message to somebody, why is that wrong? Because you can't understand it. But one day, when you need me.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you're seeing objects, that's. That's a sign of like, you don't see them.

[Athena]

A message. You give it to the person and they heal.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, my.

[Athena]

I charge 111 for what I do. It's not fake.

[Caleb Hammer]

Trust me. I don't. I. I didn't say you couldn't make any money off of spreading that everyone can make money off of.

[Athena]

No. You wanna. You wanna tell?

[Carter]

No. I've seen her heal people with it.

[Athena]

You think I chose to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Chose what?

[Carter]

She snows. That you couldn't really know. And the person's like, how the hell did you know that. That's what I've seen.

[Athena]

And how have I helped them? Really?

[Caleb Hammer]

Fine. Tell me something about myself.

[Carter]

Well, it doesn't really work.

[Athena]

It doesn't work.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, it has to be the convenience stuff. Yes. Only when it works.

[Carter]

It's only when it comes to her randomly. She can't.

[Athena]

And it's not randomly. It's usually when I do. Happy? My higher self will talk to your higher self. I can. I can serve you right now, buddy. And you're gonna regret it. Okay. Do you want to get served?

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait, wait. What do you mean? What is it? How does it work?

[Athena]

I blow it through your nose.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I don't want that.

[Athena]

I don't want grabs all your energy. I don't want that you to mother earth and gonna come out Caleb that you've been holding.

[Caleb Hammer]

I pooped twice today. We do not need to go.

[Carter]

It can't make you poop too.

[Caleb Hammer]

I. I don't. I don't need to go to the jungle. I don't need to do this. I'm gonna live in the world. I'm gonna exist here. Noah, he did say. Noah told me he's willing to let you blow it through his nose in the post show. So make sure you guys stick around for the post show and I'll. I'll abuse my position of power.

[Athena]

I love you from a distance. But one day, if you do need me, please call upon me.

[Caleb Hammer]

I will see someone who studies human psychology in the world of science and I will leave the jungle. But you can. Bingo. Bongo bongo. Stick there if you want.

[Athena]

I'm just saying I help people through seizures and everything, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

But I know how much you hate crystals.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know what the I'd do with the crystal.

[Athena]

I don't know anything about crystals either. It just had a pretty sun on.

[Caleb Hammer]

It somewhere and it would look nice.

[Athena]

My mom taught me never to go anywhere without a gift, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that's nice. That's a. That's a nice heart.

[Athena]

I have a very nice heart. I may sound really right now, but I'm the most loving person in the world. Like I love people. I love helping people. I came on this earth. I joined the military on a dare at 18 because somebody dared me. I couldn't do it. And I ended up saving a lot of people and helping a lot of people. So.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

Thank you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Okay. Sure. Price line. That's something that's basically paid off so up. It's nothing. But you have a price line Visa rewards card. But that's Again, basically, yeah.

[Carter]

That's what she flew, I think, to.

[Caleb Hammer]

The episode Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, not the jungle. Like literal. Three Amazon purchases. So there's lots of. Oh, well, someone is. Because we've had multiple purchases. Now we're at six Amazon purchases across the board.

[Athena]

I think you're looking at every month when they just charge us.

[Caleb Hammer]

No. What are you talking about? This is all in one month.

[Carter]

Says the date auto.

[Athena]

So what. What are we buying?

[Carter]

I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

If Amazon and find out.

[Carter]

I remember I bought, like, the stuff to kill any cockroaches in our couch. Like some powder.

[Athena]

Okay, so you bought anti fungus, and then you bought the cockroach stuff and you bought batteries.

[Carter]

Well, what are those bought recently? February.

[Athena]

February, March. There's only been two things purchased.

[Caleb Hammer]

So in the month. In the month of March, there were six things through Amazon as a company.

[Athena]

That's what I'm saying. That's. I don't know which. What we're. We got.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are they renting movies? Are they.

[Carter]

Oh, we did buy a movie.

[Caleb Hammer]

Amazon's a large thing in general.

[Athena]

No, we just bought one.

[Caleb Hammer]

Donate to Twitch.

[Athena]

No, we don't.

[Carter]

Yeah, I think one's probably the prime cost. Same for getting prime. It's like seven.

[Caleb Hammer]

The last thing I bought was $3.

[Carter]

And then seven. If you don't want ads or some like, so that all. They build it all separately.

[Caleb Hammer]

He's a gamer.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

Yeah. And I enjoy that. When we have money. I like. I know you might hate this, but live like no other. So one day you can live like no other because it's Dave Ramsey. And I know you don't agree with him.

[Caleb Hammer]

I like Dave, but.

[Athena]

Oh, you do?

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. I just don't.

[Athena]

I saw one episode where you're like, I don't agree with him.

[Caleb Hammer]

So on the. A thousand dollars, specifically.

[Athena]

Oh, okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

And one size fits all. I like to be more nuanced, but no. I mean, he's helped literally millions of people.

[Athena]

He helped me through. I went through a church program, and like I said, I got out of debt. And I've done it multiple times over and over. And obviously, we're. We're. When we get money, we're being responsible. We're not just wasting most of it. But I don't understand anything past after you get out of debt, what to do, because I was never taught.

[Caleb Hammer]

But in the next Crater Clash, Dave Ramsey and I are gonna. We're gonna fight in the ring.

[Athena]

Good luck to both of you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, good luck to Dave. I'd fight George, but he's short. That'd be unfair. Okay. Freedom. His specifically. You're not on this at all.

[Athena]

No, no it's. That's under his name. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. You're not on this.

[Athena]

No. We probably both again we just use whatever card.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh boy.961 we are not organized at all, are we?961.94 this is nice.

[Athena]

Okay. I've improved a lot.

[Caleb Hammer]

Our dead body is going to fly out of the book when you open it.

[Athena]

I've improved a lot. When I first became on my own because I was not allowed to control the finances with my last with the father of my first child. He was the breeder whatever manly man.

[Carter]

Of all men reader breadwitter I think.

[Athena]

So I had a fun bucket money which was all ones, fives, tens and twenties and hundreds went to bill. So since then again I write a list of all the bills we have have that I understand and know of besides subscriptions or anything he has.

[Caleb Hammer]

I put the minimum for a second for the camera that this is the.

[Athena]

Organization that's the minimum payments the interest if they're interest free. When we have to pay them off how much we're paying and after.

[Caleb Hammer]

Listen, it's a step. It's a step. And I actually am glad that you did that. It's just that I feel like that's very hard to track behind the kind of like a torn up piece of paper. But that does.

[Athena]

No, this is just a copy of it. I didn't bring the root legit one.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh okay. I was gonna say. But that does show like actual effort and I am happy.

[Athena]

And he hates it. Every month I go, can we sit down? He hates it. No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why we got to sit down. Why aren't you sitting down? You got to sit down.

[Athena]

Doesn't want to do it. He doesn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

We got it. Just be aing adult. Be a man. Be a big boy.

[Carter]

I'm not responsible. I know I'm not.

[Athena]

He literally became a man when he met me because he was dangle some.

[Caleb Hammer]

World of Warcraft over his head that.

[Athena]

Would actually I've offered him incentives blowies during World of Warcraft if he can just like I am an incentive person. I am all for my husband. I cannot give him any more love than I've already given him. He's got it. He's got to either do this on his own or he's not going to want to do it. He's just going to fall back into a pattern of sabotaging and nobody.

[Carter]

I kind of feel like so Impossible. Sometimes I'm just like, I do it.

[Athena]

I watch the kids, I work with them in my hands. I come home, I help you. We both do it, but you got to just put in a little more effort. We got to do it together. We're supposed to be a team. Team. We're on the same team.

[Caleb Hammer]

All right. First time we've talked about under desk on this show. It's a new one.

[Athena]

You should try it. World of Warcraft. Who says I have how you keep them, ladies? Not that I have the. Not that people think I am.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, because we're talking about divorce. Okay, 21.76 of interest accrued on this one. Minimum monthly payment was made. No purchases. Thank the first time ever.961.94 is the balance.

[Athena]

You just said on two of them ago there was no purchases. First purchase ever, though.

[Carter]

He said no purchases. But then there was.

[Caleb Hammer]

But then there was. We pulled up the paper.

[Athena]

But though there was one before that you said no purchases.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude, I don't know this conversation. I feel like I've already inhaled your essence of whatever toxins you want to put in the air. Okay. Best buy.

[Carter]

That one's probably not very good right now. What said that one's probably not very good.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's not very good. $1,863 worth of headphones.

[Carter]

No, no, that was 150, but 40 cents.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Carter]

Buying food. The TV. The raider of the TV we bought a few years ago is out there.

[Caleb Hammer]

Minimum payment was made, but then we purchased 348.97cent dollars. What are we doing to 17 cents? So $17 and 61 cents interest of grain.

[Athena]

The only thing I approved of was the iPad because the kids broke it and we only under warranty for so long, so we had to get it fixed before.

[Carter]

Oh, yeah, the screen.

[Athena]

But.

[Carter]

So that was like 50 bucks. And then 50 bucks for a screen.

[Athena]

And I'm fighting them on the screen protector because they told me that was life guarantee. And I fought that man.

[Carter]

She tried.

[Athena]

And he was so mean. I just said, hey, man, this is cover. And he ripped off off. You don't want it? Then don't get it. And I was like, bro, I just was asking you a question. It's supposed to be lifetime guaranteed. And he's like, oh, the actual screen protector is. And I'm like, then can I get.

[Caleb Hammer]

You were pleasant.

[Athena]

I am a very pleasant person.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, but you're a little aggressive sometimes.

[Athena]

Like, I come at me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, I know. But I'm like.

[Carter]

She starts off pleasant I'm having a.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hard time seeing a random NPC out there being such a dick like that without you being a little something first.

[Carter]

You came. I will say you came in a little. Yeah, she had some.

[Caleb Hammer]

You come in hot.

[Athena]

I asked him a question.

[Caleb Hammer]

I know, but if someone comes at me that I've never met, hot, like, I'm immediately defensive.

[Athena]

Okay, and exactly why I'm defensive with you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you signed up, to be honest.

[Athena]

Of course.

[Caleb Hammer]

Of course. Best Buy guy.

[Athena]

But you do understand a little bit, okay? You had a couple military people on the show. We are trained to shoot first, ask questions later. We do not go good in a corner. I will never become a police officer. I've been offered that job millions of times.

[Caleb Hammer]

Please don't.

[Athena]

I will not become one because I shoot first and ask questions later and I cannot rewire my brain. So you're putting me to be like this evil person and I'm not.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't think so. I'm not really assigning anything. I'm just like sitting here. I think I've talked less in this episode than almost any episode.

[Athena]

I told you, I'm a talker.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, Shooting them. Words first.

[Athena]

I want to learn as much as I can. I want to understand as much as I can. Because if anybody's gonna take the knowledge home, it's gonna be me. And try and change so far. Yes. High five.

[Caleb Hammer]

Best Buy total. Why are you. Why do we have a yearly subscription to Best Buy right now?

[Athena]

Oh, because our TV broke and actually can't afford everything.

[Caleb Hammer]

Extended warranty.

[Carter]

I should get rid of it. But I have used it. I got a whole new tv.

[Athena]

They keep replacing our tv. Something keeps going out and so we couldn't. We were going to cancel this year, but what if it goes out again? Then it goes our tv.

[Caleb Hammer]

Gosh, it just really sucks. Cuz we just don't.

[Carter]

It's so funny.

[Athena]

I can get rid of it. And you know what? If we don't have a tv, we don't have a tv.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I mean, go work instead of.

[Carter]

We have another tv.

[Athena]

I did apply to a lot of jobs and I'm waiting to hear back how many jobs. I know you think this is not good because it's not a lot. A lot of jobs, but.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you said a lot, so.

[Athena]

Yeah, five.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, for her, that's not a lot.

[Athena]

Well, no, because I can only work at certain hours.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

What hours? The. The evenings.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. And there's only five places.

[Athena]

Well, no, on top of that, I tried to get a job that Would help us get out of debt. So I guess it's called called Texas Roadhouse. And they wanted military personnel but they asked me if I could wait a week so that their training thing and they'll let me know in a week. So I stopped the process with everybody else.

[Caleb Hammer]

So this happened a week ago?

[Athena]

Yeah, so I stopped because in the beginning we came here and I said, hey, I could be a bus driver. He said that's not going to work with my schedule.

[Caleb Hammer]

How.

[Athena]

Who's going to take him to kids? Who's going to take them? So then I work doordash.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, what's my choice instead of all the herbal stuff that honey cinnamon butter. Texas Roadhouse.

[Athena]

I've never been there, so I don't. I'm happy to serve you steaks owns.

[Caleb Hammer]

This world and you can conquer nations.

[Athena]

Really. So I, I apply. I wanted to apply at like four different jobs and it weren't convenient for him. And then last week he finally was like, yeah, you're right, go get a job. Okay, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

So mission lane. Yep. 81.74 payment. Well, it's close to maxed out. 56.74 of interest again. $172 of purchases more than the minimum with the payment. What are we doing? The balance went up on our constants to growing interest. What is this? Oh, Tina. Bubble place. And then this. So that's getting supplies. Yes, but we're purchasing that on two cards that we can't pay off. Why does that make sense? That doesn't make sense.

[Athena]

Well, I need the products to be able to do their hair. So it's a big investment. But then you start making money. I. I've only been here two and a half months. I've taken five clients on the side waiting.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but why on the credit cards though?

[Athena]

Why do I have the credit card?

[Caleb Hammer]

No, why on the credit cards versus like in our checking account?

[Carter]

We didn't have the cash.

[Athena]

We don't have 2,000. Like it's big purchases. You have to buy in bulk.

[Caleb Hammer]

So it's like 150 bucks.

[Athena]

It's. It's usually a lot more. I've been, I've been trying to like wait till the deals go.

[Carter]

She's found some sales so she bought extra.

[Athena]

And I do have a lot of product that I am from LA getting rid of from my salon. So we, we didn't technically lose out, but it's going to take a while for me to sell off all these products.

[Carter]

Sure. If you sold all this, I would.

[Caleb Hammer]

Have a lot of just keeps going Ally card. I think that is that 878 and that went down. I paid a good chunk 27.

[Athena]

These were the minimum payment until we had your deferred interest.

[Caleb Hammer]

You put a little more towards it and yeah it's that it's good. Okay.

[Athena]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

When does the interest kick again for this?

[Athena]

It just started to kick in.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes it did. And I'm literally a couple days ago. Okay. That sucks. Oh we made it through the desk. No more debts.

[Athena]

That's it.

[Caleb Hammer]

No more.

[Athena]

Oh we do have one that I did not bring up. It's not really a debt. Okay. So his grandma has given us money.

[Carter]

And whenever we're short buddy she'll let us borrow.

[Athena]

She's always just come in save the day for him or buys him something he needs or for the kids if she feels like they're not not like that. She'll send a lot of stuff. But the thing is we did borrow borrow.

[Caleb Hammer]

So this is a debt.

[Athena]

No, she is weird. She gave. I want to pay it back. Okay. I don't how much like owing people. So I paid $20 out of every week of my account. So I don't know what we're at but it was 4,000.

[Caleb Hammer]

For how long?

[Athena]

I just put it to infinity.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no.

[Carter]

When did she give it? February.

[Caleb Hammer]

Since when? February or January. Which one?

[Carter]

I think that's when she started the payments last year. Oh you started a blast in like November?

[Athena]

October. We went through a really rough period.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like it was bad and it was how the 4000.

[Athena]

It was about $4000. Oh it was more. But we paid. I paid her a big chunk when we got her tax return. And she keeps saying and she wants to give it back. She'll just keep buying us stuff. She doesn't want it back. But I don't feel right.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's probably $3,664.

[Athena]

Like that's our only go to if we needed help is his 80 year old grandma who's awesome and she out out does me at 80.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can I say yeah she does because she only has.

[Athena]

I know I Talk a lot.

[Caleb Hammer]

23.22 in your checking account now we have like 100.

[Athena]

But your poor plant needs some light.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude. This. What are you talking about? You're talking about that. You're talking about that little piece of brown that was on this plant. Since we've bought the plant.

[Athena]

Okay, but do you keep it only indoors, buddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

We have these sunlights that are on it all night. Okay, look at the whole plant? The whole plant, except for the parts that have been brown since the day we bought, are doing great. All this new growth. This is luscious green. Yes.

[Athena]

And then a lot of your videos, I see that. I'm like, does it ever go away?

[Caleb Hammer]

It's. Well, I don't. I think that.

[Athena]

Have you ever told it how, Like, I know it's a plant, but have you ever thanked it for, like, the oxygen it gives you?

[Caleb Hammer]

No, because I'm not a freak. There's a sun lamp right there. There's sun lamps over there.

[Carter]

We take.

[Athena]

I was gonna say maybe the plants. These lights help this plant. It's beautiful.

[Caleb Hammer]

Growing pothos, they can just survive anything, right?

[Athena]

So I don't know. I put basil outside and killed it.

[Carter]

Yeah. She killed a lot of plants.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Athena]

I cannot save plants, but I can save people.

[Caleb Hammer]

You can. You can burn them and inhale them.

[Athena]

It doesn't work like that. You don't burn them at all.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. It's pretty much nothing. Oh, good. Here we go.

[Athena]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

800 bucks in this one. And there was a place to stay at some lodge, and then Starbucks. Starbucks. Starbucks.

[Athena]

That was. Yeah, way back then when we were drinking Starbucks. We don't do it anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, way back then. Like a month ago.

[Athena]

No, it's been two and a half months. I did buy somebody a Starbucks because they were supposed to babysit for us. And then somebody took over because she couldn't do the night shift.

[Caleb Hammer]

So expensive. T mobile. I'd switch to helium.

[Athena]

So. Okay, question. Yeah, we took in a kind man. His. One of his co workers. He came from Turkey. Great dude. His family is trying to come over here. Somebody, like, stole his money. How do you say it?

[Carter]

So he was trying to rent a place. They showed him a house and he paid him a down payment and they stole his money. And it wasn't their house.

[Athena]

And so he wasn't used to the culture of California. So we took him in after two months of him being really good and, you know, he was just sleeping on our couch, our cockroach infested couch. Poor man. He started smoking weed and started stumbling. And so we're like, hey, we love you, but we love. We're gonna release you with love. And you have to go figure things out because if you stay here, you're just gonna stop wanting to work and everything. And we gave him. We connected a phone line so he has his own phone. He's paying it every month.

[Carter]

You'll see it pays 35 every move. And it's Hella what? The ballots.

[Athena]

We don't. We can't think. I think we can't cancel until his phone is paid off, which I think it was two years and it's already been like a year. But he said he'll do whatever. He said, my friend, whatever you need, let me know. You've always been there for me. You guys are the kindest people I've ever.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I mean, I would just try to get him to do it on his own. I would try.

[Carter]

He could probably pay that bill.

[Athena]

I can ask him if I'll pay the balance. But he sometimes, I mean, you can.

[Caleb Hammer]

Get out of the contract.

[Athena]

His actual total is 25. We charge him an extra 10 just in case. Case he did run off. We'd have that back thing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Starbucks City bites. Taco Bell, coffee, hibachi. Whole Foods is an expensive way to eat for people who do not have money, especially since it kind of tastes.

[Athena]

Like we have a lot of. No, we have a lot of restrictions. I cook a lot. I cook a lot. But we have a lot of restrictions. My daughter can't have, basically, sugar, like white sugar. My son's allergic to cinnamon sugar, like refined sugar. She gets very.

[Caleb Hammer]

And only Whole Foods doesn't have sugar.

[Carter]

No, but they just have better options.

[Athena]

They have better options when we cook, like, or we just. Everything's organic. I don't drink. Like, I like. I don't drink Starbucks. Or I get really ill if I drink Starbucks now, since the stroke. So sometimes.

[Carter]

Sometimes it's not coffee. Sometimes she buys, like.

[Athena]

Sometimes I buy the kids food if we're. We're traveling around, because like I said at the first time, we didn't have a place to cook. We didn't. Everything had to be eating out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Starbucks is food place.

[Athena]

They like the. The. The impossible sandwich, but we don't like. Again, we found out the ingredients and cake pops. Well, they usually get free cake pops everywhere they go.

[Caleb Hammer]

They get cava going inside a gas station, getting some Taco Bell. Liquor store. Might not be liquor, though.

[Athena]

I know. I. I buy wine for the food. My mom has proven we cooked with a little bit of wine.

[Caleb Hammer]

Just cava. Taco Bell.

[Athena]

So once every once.

[Caleb Hammer]

Chick Fil A. So going out, spinning the bowl.

[Athena]

Oh, you. Did you put the mattress thing down?

[Carter]

Huh?

[Athena]

Is the mattress thing on there? The synchrony.

[Carter]

I just barely filled out how to get access to that card. I could tell you what it is. It's fifteen hundred dollars, and I made a hundred dollars.

[Athena]

There's no interest. If we do it in 12 months.

[Caleb Hammer]

12 months from one.

[Carter]

So I paid 100 last month.

[Caleb Hammer]

So 11 months. Okay.

[Athena]

He couldn't. Somehow they think they.

[Caleb Hammer]

So we need to pay $136 towards it on a monthly basis.

[Athena]

They put our old address or something because they said that we wouldn't get approved if we put a new address.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is another bed.

[Athena]

No, it's the only one.

[Carter]

So I put partial payment on one.

[Caleb Hammer]

Card and then what was that $1,000 we saw for a mattress?

[Athena]

That's the partial payment. It was 2,200.

[Carter]

And then they open that card and that was the rest of.

[Athena]

Last time I bought a mattress was 15 years ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't give a. You can get a cheap mattress.

[Athena]

Where?

[Caleb Hammer]

Where? In literally any mattress store. When I went and got a mattress, I got a $300 queen size mattress.

[Athena]

Oh, I think it's cuz maybe we have a king bed frame, buddy. I wouldn't find. Step on the floor. I've said.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you say Noah just got a 300.

[Carter]

You say that.

[Athena]

Well, his dad did say he got a 400 nectar or something and that.

[Carter]

We should have said he got one off the Internet. It's like a nectar.

[Athena]

Why didn't we do that?

[Caleb Hammer]

Nectar is what I have now. Once I upgraded. Yes. Oh, guys, we're just beyond unorganized, beyond irresponsible.

[Carter]

It's just.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Okay.

[Athena]

I would call sleeping necessary. Yeah, I don't think it has necessary. Did all our kids sleeping? Yeah, they all sleep enough for everybody to sleep.

[Caleb Hammer]

Total progress made on debt. Overall net was $502 where really 3624 with new charges and new interest on all the debts is what we saw.

[Athena]

Is that in this last month or.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's one of the statements that we have, which is only a month's time. Most recent statements. We are we gonna budget together as a couple or are we staying together? What are we even doing?

[Athena]

I never said like I want to divorce. Like I said those. I don't like to say those words.

[Caleb Hammer]

But where are we? Where are we actually headed, George? So I can know like what I.

[Athena]

Think my goal is to be together forever and to get through the hard times. Do you not when you marry somebody?

[Caleb Hammer]

Multiple few hundred dollar kings.

[Athena]

When you marry somebody, you say through sickness and through health. He's sick.

[Caleb Hammer]

A lot of people say it and 50 of them go back. So what are we doing?

[Athena]

Well, it's up to. I'm through sickness and health.

[Caleb Hammer]

It sounds like up to you because he's. It sounds like he wants to stay together forever.

[Carter]

Forever.

[Athena]

Yeah, but then is what you said. Yeah, but then he's also going to be like, but I won't be here for you. I'll just be in my own little world. So that's not really.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are we staying together?

[Athena]

Of course I want to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

But I gotta. We gotta put in the work together. Like can't do everything. I'm stressed. The out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, yeah, I'm stressed.

[Athena]

Oh my gosh. Ground yourself, man.

[Caleb Hammer]

Girl, I'm as grounded as I could be. I am right here.

[Athena]

No, your shoes are on. You're not grounded. Go hug a tree. It'll make you feel better. It sucks, but it does.

[Carter]

Actually one time she told me that and I said shut the up. And then I went, shut the up. I did it and I actually felt better.

[Caleb Hammer]

I was like, probably because you went outside.

[Carter]

Yeah, we were outside when she told.

[Caleb Hammer]

Me that already sun on you.

[Athena]

We. He was already outside.

[Carter]

See? And she's like that tree.

[Athena]

I don't like talking the truth either, bro. But God given earth also.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is this Meta Zoo thing that you guys spent thousands.

[Carter]

It's a freaking card game.

[Athena]

I hate you Metazoo you.

[Carter]

At the start, it was great. We bought a box 100 bucks and it was selling for like 900. So at first we're like, oh dude, like we just made nine times our money. But now the price dropped and it's.

[Athena]

So he bought. He went in a rampage of buying a lot of them. And so if you can't beat them, you outsmart them. So whatever he bought, I bought when we had this, this money, this free money come in from COVID or whatever because we didn't get a. We didn't get a payout for nine months or something. Then we had some money. We were. All our cards were paid and I said okay, if you want to do this investment. But he was opening them. So whatever he bought, I made sure he put one away that he didn't open. So we'd actually have $10,000 worth of Pokemon. We're selling right now.

[Carter]

I'm selling them now.

[Athena]

The Metazoo I brought in 1100. Where we got over is they had this Kickstarter where you buy a five thousand dollar painting, one of the original 25 characters. And some of them are going to be valued at like a hundred thousand if you get Mothman or something. So I told him, if you think it's right, okay. I said if you think it's right. And it's like I'm, I'm behind you. I'm your wife, whatever you do. I do. Let's go. And then they didn't send it till this year.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you guys have any investment accounts?

[Athena]

I do. I had a Roth ira. I do, but I, I. Okay, how do I say this? I have a Roth IRA. I put $600 when my daughter was young. When I separated, I used the $600. They said there was no penalty because I never put. Never took out more than I made put in. And I have not been able to put anything. I did have a Marcus Goldman Sachs account where I had a little bit of emergency fund. It's not a lot. It was like $300. But when his debts came up.

[Caleb Hammer]

So just to be very clear, instead of putting anything towards a Roth IRA or a 401k or even individual stocks in mumu, what we're doing instead. So we're getting some gambling on hoping that a $5,000 we're putting into a painting or something like that turns into 100,000. I'm so confused. What this, this zoo whatever thing.

[Carter]

It's like.

[Athena]

It's Pokemon, but it uses things around you, I guess. Like if it's card. If there's a mirror in the room, you can use this card. It actually went viral. It was crazy. The Kickstarter box went for $10,000. We now have one of those Kickstarter boxes because they were worth about a thousand. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Interesting.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

We didn't, we didn't get it. They gifted it to us because they, they up and didn't send out the pictures and we never got our gift.

[Caleb Hammer]

So someone else's fault again.

[Athena]

They never. Well, you buy something, you expect to get it, right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure. But like just everything in this world. I have no hurt. Have you. Have you taken responsibility for one thing? Yes, I think one thing. You were like, I hate that I'm taking responsibility for this right now.

[Athena]

That's true. Yeah. I can't control that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, yes, correct. So that's the one thing you've taken responsibility for in this entire country?

[Athena]

What do you mean? I've taken care of my kids Responsibility. Like, yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Taking responsibility for like anything going wrong ever. The one thing.

[Athena]

No. Yeah. Life got. I supported him. Okay. I did the wrong thing, but I. I stand by it. I supported him through the Metazoo. And I know it was probably wasn't the right decision, but you choose to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Be in a relationship, the Metazoo was your choice.

[Carter]

Yeah. Because I saw it blow up. I was like, oh.

[Athena]

I said, I don't believe in that.

[Carter]

I don't understand 401k and all that.

[Athena]

Junk. Stupid. But I support my husband. And if you think that's a good call, and if we back up and we fall out, we'll find a way out. That's my responsibleness. Okay, we're out. We're under. Let's find a way. Okay, so now we're selling all this.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you not recognize that? Throughout this entire conversation, just constantly throughout every single piece of paper, every story, when we went and it was just like. It was a deflection and a blame on what someone else did, that was beyond our control. Every single time. This entire conversation, you're gonna have to watch it back. It's been. It's very interesting.

[Athena]

Sometimes it is beyond our control, sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

But everything has been here.

[Athena]

Well, we've had a rough few years that we didn't. We didn't plan it. It happened. But we're dealing with it. We're living through it. We're not giving up.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm just literally. You've blamed it all on outside factors outside of you. Things are going to happen. I'm not going to say that nothing's ever going to happen. But literally everything throughout this conversation has been. It is something. It is.

[Athena]

Well, because when you brought up the fast food, I said we could be better. We could. Like. I said, we could eat rice and beans at home. And I will eat it if he doesn't want to eat it.

[Caleb Hammer]

You said he went to Chick Fil a. That's what you said when I brought up the fast food.

[Athena]

Well, I think we went to the same car. Because for our kids, though it was for our kids. So it wasn't just because.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but that's not what you did. You didn't say, let's get rice and beans. You said, he went to church. Chick Fil A.

[Athena]

Well, that's why I asked. Did you go to Chick Fil A? Because I didn't realize that person. I mean, it is. I mean, I get it. I am taking responsibility, obviously, where everything. This is all me and him together, right? This is us. And now we're gonna.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are the actions?

[Athena]

I go to the job. I work harder.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, no, no. What are the actions that you took that ended up to the place that were irresponsible decisions of yours? What were the actions. What are we able to acknowledge that got us into this place to begin with? You didn't make the choice to have a fully funded emergency fund. Having a fully funded emergency fund would protect Us from a lot of things that are outside of our control. That is an act of choice, because you were not sacrificing things in order to have a fully funded emergency fund. Okay, so that's a part of it.

[Athena]

Of course. Of course.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, what are the actions when.

[Athena]

I save, when I start?

[Caleb Hammer]

When you're willing to take responsibility, as you say you are, what was irresponsible that you've messed up, that you are willing to take responsibility for?

[Athena]

Like, when he purchases something, right? And I. I save, I get angry and I go, well, why am I the only one saving? Why am I the only one sacrificing? And I go out. No, I go out and spend. It's my problem. I have a problem where I'm like, why do I let that get to me? And then I go spend. Why do I give my children what they want rather than what? Like, hey, rice and beans is just as good. Soup's just as good. Listen, like, you know, you guys are young and you don't understand yet, which I've been trying. I've been, you know, learning more of. But there was a period where I was sick. I couldn't cook for my family. I couldn't do these things. I was very ill. I was in the. In and out of the hospital. They told me I was going to die.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. And no one's ever going to say you were bad for that part. When you're in sickness, like, let's not go to the.

[Athena]

So now I'm getting better and I'm, like, working on myself. Of course, every day I am asking.

[Caleb Hammer]

For is taking specific responsibility. You started going down. And you started going down that path for a second, and then you're immediately like. And then I was in the hospital. Like, there's been. There was so much more life before the. What happened?

[Athena]

Of course. And so I started charging things. The car hard. We. We all Americans do it, right? We all do it. And then that's stupid. We should not charge it. We should not spend money that we don't off.

[Caleb Hammer]

Other than child tax credits, which are good.

[Athena]

Wait, what?

[Caleb Hammer]

Your lack of paying them off other than the child tax credits. And then you went through bankruptcy as well. For the business.

[Athena]

The business. Yeah. That. That's all me. That was my mistake. Wow. You said I didn't take it. That was my mistake. The business was my mistake.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, good. That's fine. Earlier you said it was because of the landlord, so it is.

[Athena]

But it's still my responsibility. It shouldn't be under him. He shouldn't take a bankruptcy. He wanted to take a bankruptcy. Bankruptcy for me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely.

[Athena]

So it was my responsibility. I have to do the actions I want.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why would it be under him? Who would ever suggest it would be under him?

[Athena]

Because he wanted business. Well, he wanted. Well, it's our business together, I mean.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you were in the business.

[Carter]

Well, no, I mean I help a little bit. I was supposed to read the.

[Athena]

He has offered to like go to accounting classes and stuff because again, I'm not the best with numbers. I'm trying my best and I'm working up to it. I would love to take an accounting class. Can't afford it. But he's promised me for years he would take it and help we do it together. But most of the time when he offers to help with something, he just kind of dwindles away and I figure it out myself.

[Caleb Hammer]

We didn't spend $442.60 a month on going out to eat or 5.5% of our spending. I think we could take a budgeting program online. Again, I'm willing to give things. I don't know what course careers has in terms of that. Usually it's tech certifications, but I'll give you one if there's one for budgeting miscellaneous things that do not improve your life in any way whatsoever. They're just this miscellaneous. $1,749.19. 21.8% of our spending.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

How about unknown shopping? Typically Amazon is about 2.2% of your spending. Again net. Only 6% of your spending went towards debt. So it's a no. We. It's not a we can't afford it. It's. Your money's going everywhere and you guys just don't know what's going on.

[Athena]

No, of course I don't know. That's why I came here.

[Caleb Hammer]

You need to sit down with each other on a monthly basis. Go through the budgeting program together and take the quizzes together. But let's create you just like a high level budget and say you applied for government benefits last week.

[Athena]

Yes, I had to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, what.

[Athena]

Because I can. Food.

[Caleb Hammer]

Food. Okay. Food assistance.

[Athena]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. What are you guys. But you're not. You're not reporting your income.

[Athena]

Yeah, I did would.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're not paying taxes though.

[Athena]

Why would I I. Everything. My tax lady does, whatever she does and puts it and she says you're under.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Probably because you don't make enough.

[Athena]

Yeah.

[Carter]

She doesn't have three children. Yeah. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. You all gotta use my favorite high yield savings Account where you can get up to 4.6 on your money, plus FDIC insurance up to $2 million. You can also get up to 300 for signing up today. It's the personal high yield savings account that I use for my money. So don't let your money be losing money while it's just sitting there.

[Athena]

There.

[Caleb Hammer]

Click in the link in the description below and get those bonuses. Okay. Have you heard back?

[Athena]

Yes, they approved me for $622 next month, which we discussed that that will be our only spending together. We're gonna try to do it together.

[Caleb Hammer]

On food?

[Athena]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Only spending on food. You think you can. You think that's gonna stretch for four of you?

[Athena]

It's very hard.

[Caleb Hammer]

Could. I think.

[Athena]

But I mean, I make bigger meals that are like. Again, I'm not taking responsibility, but a lot of the time I want to be the one to cook. I want to be the one to not go out. I kind of yell up, like, let them know, like, hey, if we go spend this, that's more debt. We go in. I don't care. I'm happy. Let's go. Oh, I don't care. I'm happy. Let's go. What do you do? You're sad. You know, you don't want to.

[Caleb Hammer]

You meal prep and then you reheat? Is that what we're talking?

[Athena]

No, I cook that day and then usually leftovers the next day.

[Caleb Hammer]

Think about some potential meal prepping as well. Meal prepping can be a really good way to save money because we're buying in bulk. Now, the reason I asked, if that's going to stretch, that could stretch for normal, but there's a lot of dietary restrictions here.

[Athena]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Across the board. So what do you legitimately think, grocery bill we could do on a monthly basis?

[Athena]

Well, we had 900 in California and that barely got us by. But like I said, I will make whatever work. My mom made it work when she was alive for my dad.

[Caleb Hammer]

Please, a number. What do you think?

[Athena]

Whatever the number is for the. So $622.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Athena]

I'm going to try and make. That's what I said in the beginning.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but you can. You can add more cash on top of that with your own.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Athena]

We could. Yeah. If we need. But that's what I'm trying to stick to. I'm trying to stick with.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so we're going to try that.

[Athena]

Yes. 622.

[Caleb Hammer]

Health, medical, anything ongoing.

[Athena]

We just got sooner. I just had kidney stones two weeks ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Athena]

Yeah. So The VA covers the first two emergency rooms and then they signed me up for something called Sooner and they said, yeah, you need that. And so we just got signed up and then we're trying to get child services where they will help us watch our kids so that we can go get better. Sure, I can go get a better job.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. What kind of. What do I need to put for medical on a monthly basis?

[Athena]

I don't think there is anything.

[Caleb Hammer]

Nothing. There's nothing ongoing. Okay.

[Athena]

We don't take gyms.

[Caleb Hammer]

Shimmer subscriptions.

[Athena]

Oh yeah, good, that's great.

[Caleb Hammer]

TP fun. Anything else you need to survive. This could be school stuff as well. It's really going to vary on a monthly basis. We're just trying to get just an average and I'm thinking about 200 bucks. It's everything else you need in life. Toothpaste, blah, blah, blah.

[Athena]

Because the diapers, he's almost out of them. We're trying our best.

[Caleb Hammer]

Phone bill. What was that? Okay, what's your rent?

[Athena]

1540.

[Caleb Hammer]

Utilities? Water, gas, electric.

[Carter]

So water is like 50 above month. Electricity is like 100amonth and then Internet right now is 90, but I could drop it down to 70.

[Caleb Hammer]

Let's drop it down to 70. Yeah, it's world of Warcraft. I don't think it needs to be.

[Carter]

It doesn't need 500 megabytes.

[Athena]

Well, didn't you like you tried to put.

[Carter]

No, I think no. So they. I tried to get my router installed and then it didn't work. And then they said I was gonna have to pay 15amonth to use theirs. So they made me upgrade the plan to get the deal back. Yeah, it's just a big.

[Caleb Hammer]

Have wrenches insurance.

[Athena]

Yes.

[Carter]

Yeah, we do.

[Athena]

We have two renters insurance right now because we're trying 20 bucks a month. Then it's like 30 something. And then we have the other one that we cannot cancel until our insurance.

[Carter]

Once we get insurance.

[Caleb Hammer]

How much is that on top of the 30 though?

[Athena]

Another 20 something.

[Caleb Hammer]

So 50. Okay, 55. Let's call it gas. Vroom, vroom. Drive, Drive.

[Athena]

We do drive a lot. We go to parks every day we go. We just go to do free things.

[Carter]

Between 50 and 60 bucks a fill up. And we fill up up at least once a week.

[Athena]

Oh yeah, because the doordash that anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, we were doing some doordash.

[Athena]

I was.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Athena]

Without the door. 12am through 3.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do I budget for gas?

[Athena]

I think 200. Can we do? Oh no, say 250 because yeah, he has a car, but he owns it. It's a 1990.

[Carter]

I'll be driving to my dad's down the street. What tank of gas last two weeks.

[Caleb Hammer]

Car insurances?

[Carter]

Oh, I don't know.

[Athena]

One car insurance is two something. Oh, that's for both of us. And then I have a.

[Caleb Hammer]

Two what? There's a lot between two and three.

[Athena]

I think it's like 270. I'm not. We're trying to get it.

[Caleb Hammer]

And the other one.

[Athena]

Motorcycle insurance is 27.

[Caleb Hammer]

There's a motorcycle.

[Athena]

I have a motorcycle.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sell it.

[Athena]

I will not sell it.

[Carter]

Should lose a lot.

[Caleb Hammer]

Should I even.

[Athena]

I will lose a lot of money. It's not even mine.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you mean lose a lot of money? Is there debt on it?

[Athena]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you just mean in terms of.

[Athena]

What it's not worth what you bought? What it's not worth anything compared to what it's worth.

[Caleb Hammer]

What could you settle for realistically?

[Athena]

Because of the special seat I have. Because I tore everything in my right arm in the military or my left arm in the military. Probably not even much, but maybe less than 4,000. But it's not mine. It's. I promised it to my daughter. Harley. That's her name. That's the bike. Yeah. It's from her dad. And it's also essential to me because when he takes the kids in the car that we can actually take the kids in the car. We can't take the kids in the Toyota Camry. I ride that. That's my like transportation to work. But it's not here drive his whatever car.

[Caleb Hammer]

Don't we have two cars, you said?

[Athena]

Yeah, he has. His 1990 is barely working. So we try not to.

[Carter]

To use a 92 Toyota cab. It's.

[Athena]

It was gifted to us for our wedding because he had like a boat pretty much.

[Caleb Hammer]

Just saying is $4,000 could pay off some debt.

[Athena]

And I'm willing to work extra hard to keep that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, guys.

[Athena]

It's actually what got me sober. So it is very, very important to me. It may not be to you, and I understand that.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it's not that. It's just. It's a bad answer for everything. Okay. 297 for car insurance. A motorcycle got you sober? That's interesting.

[Athena]

It actually got me back to civilianhood. Like I couldn't come out of the military. Like I would pass Coke cans and they would look like IEDs and all this. And I sat on a motorcycle motorcycle for the first time. And I do a bunch of nine, 11 rides for veterans. I support a bunch of those things.

[Caleb Hammer]

So yeah, 297 for car insurance, nothing in subscriptions. Anything else you need to survive that I do not know. Other than your minimum debt payments, what else? Is there anything else that needs to be in the budget?

[Athena]

No, we pretty much do everything ourselves. I cut their own hair.

[Caleb Hammer]

I. I am beyond excited for you to reach into Noah's soul in the post show. Just whatever this is, I need this. Oh me. The detmanent payments are insane. $1,339.67. Alrighty. I think you guys more than anything need to have a big conversation where you want to be like literally physically where you guys want to live. And like figure that because if we're gonna put down roots and like. Yeah, first of all, 2, 600 comes in net for you. Yeah, that's nothing, dude. You like, you need another job immediately and then you make even less than that. You need 4,000. Like this is a minimum survival amount. 4,694.67.

[Athena]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Now reason to say anything aside for tax taxes, because you guys don't really make enough. I mean it's just more of a safety thing. But it's like.

[Athena]

So would you recommend, like I watch a lot of your shows. Do you get the emergency fund first or we start paying the things before the deferred interest comes in.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because you guys have kids. I would love to see like a two month emergency fund before certain things. But you. I've gotten up to like $8,000. That's a $9,000. You guys would need to hit that two month. And right now again. Yeah, you guys are literally with the food stamps even included in the income. You guys are still.

[Athena]

Oh, I also get 338 from the VA. I'm 20 disabled.

[Caleb Hammer]

238.

[Athena]

338.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. With that total coming in 5060 with all the benefits. So you actually do walk out with an extra 300 on a monthly basis if you budget down to the most, most basic thing. But again, just getting our two month emergency fund, my dudes, takes 30 months. 30 months or two and a half years? Yeah, 30 months. So it's basically this. I mean this is. This is. This is not an answer. That's not an answer. Cutting back spending is hardly an answer. The very clear thing right now is obviously needing to cut back spending. What I need you guys to do after this on your long ride home, we're talking. Where do we want to. Maybe we need to talk to the virtual therapist about this. Let me pay for one session. Okay. Let me pay for A session of couples therapy. Just see if maybe you guys vibe with it. Vibe with it. Let me pay for an intro session. You just send me the invoice, I'll pay for it. Just go through that and through that. Hopefully, you know, you do a couple sessions, decide where you guys want to be. Is it Florida, is it back in California? Where do we need to be that we can put down is because, you know, if you go on, you try to go get like a better paying job and you try to establish something and then we're moving in a month, it's like everything's chaos. Everything's chaos. Right now. The world's on fire in your life. I need you guys to be established somewhere. I need you to start focusing on your career. I need you to start focusing on your career. Take advantage of the services in the area to hopefully have the kids covered. You know, they're going to be headed into grade school soon. That'll be helping. You know, one of them is still a couple years away, but, you know, kindergarten at least.

[Athena]

Well, yeah, one's still away and one got kicked out of kindergarten.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Carter]

She hits, she hits this teacher, then she hits the teachers.

[Athena]

The teacher told her something about you have to be good to be good and she just threw a chair at her.

[Caleb Hammer]

Listen, I love a good Waffle House 3am fight, but I don't think we need to be doing that in a kindergarten class. But what the do I know? I don't have a three year old, nor do I want one, so. Or four or whatever.

[Athena]

Yeah, a lot. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you guys don't decide where you're going to be, what, even a year down the road of your life looks like there's no conversation to be had. So you guys need to determine that then you really need to stick to the budget. Figure out what your real budget is. This is a high level thing. Maybe you're breaking even. Maybe there's an extra hundred dollars to be found. Maybe you're actually negative. You know, we need to figure that out. When you're moving, benefits might be, you know, affected.

[Athena]

We were hoping to stay here until we pay off debt and save up.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, well, to be very clear, like.

[Athena]

I said, I haven't told you this yet, but my dad has offered to help us get a house. He'll pay the down payment and everything.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know if I want you guys to be in a house because, I mean, I would right now. Right now, to be clear, because, well.

[Athena]

We have no like center.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but.

[Athena]

And there's Been. We're in the city of tornado and there's.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, you're on the tornado alley. I know.

[Athena]

Yeah. And so.

[Caleb Hammer]

But we're literally gonna buy a house for that purpose. I don't know.

[Athena]

My dad. It's my dad's thing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, well, either way, fine. If your dad's gonna do that, then he better agree to pay for anything that breaks. Because that's the concern is once you guys get in a home price or whatever breaks, and it's all of a sudden tens of thousands of dollars on your plate, need a new roof, you know, and insurance doesn't cover it. It's all this extra stuff. Maybe you get a massive property tax increase for whatever reason. You know, all this. That is beyond out of your control. Where even right now renting is more affordable nationwide on average right now than a homeownership. Homeownership is something I want you to have overall because I want you to be without a minimum payment, of course, terms of living by the time you retire. But again, it's. This is.

[Athena]

This is the very rare thing for my dad to come through, but he is very well off. And so.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's well off?

[Athena]

Multi millionaire.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's multi?

[Athena]

I don't know.

[Carter]

Okay, he will tell us.

[Athena]

He goes around the world fixing Apple.

[Caleb Hammer]

Stores, so he doesn't need to tell you. But I was more curious than anything.

[Carter]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, good for him. Yeah, maybe you guys can.

[Athena]

He didn't get. He didn't get until his late 40s.

[Caleb Hammer]

So sacrifice and like, actually, you know, let's instead not have to wait for our mid-40s. Let's start doing that early 30s. Yeah, yeah.

[Athena]

Already in our early 30s. You're almost mid-30s next month.

[Caleb Hammer]

Does your dad know you have magical powers?

[Athena]

Yes.

[Carter]

Oh, yeah. You should tell stories.

[Athena]

He's like, this is his face, guys.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's my face. That's the audience's face.

[Athena]

And then all his friends are like, oh, my God, you do. And it gets really outside. My daughter's good at something.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, no, I don't think that's the issue.

[Athena]

You don't know my dad bad. He's trying his best, okay?

[Caleb Hammer]

Plus the one month emergency fund, paying off your debt and at this pace, and this is, even if it's accurate, takes 203 months. So again, I don't think that's the conversation. This is. You got to just figure out some basic.

[Athena]

The job I applied for, that I'm waiting for in a week. They said they on average makes 1,200 a week. So that's why.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was it again? Oh, Texas roadhouse.

[Athena]

She makes 100 a week part time. I'm. I'm gonna go haul. I don't care if it's 2 in the morning.

[Carter]

Yeah, that would be.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean let's be candid here. I mean. Well, never mind. Let's not be candid. There are people. People take things the wrong way out there. So no candidates. But some people make more money for certain reasons in the serving job.

[Athena]

I mean you think that I'm this negative person but like, like if you want him to, like he was just telling me. He's like you. You walk in somewhere and people give you things and people. You're so kind to people. You're always telling them how magical aura.

[Caleb Hammer]

So they just give you things.

[Athena]

No, it's just you're a good person and you really want to reach out to the next person. But you don't bullshit. Don't. You don't say that like, hey, if I'm having a not having a great day, like hey, I'm not having a great day and you're honest.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm about to have a great day after this because you're gonna blow Noah's mind. Spending on a budget is ridiculous. We're out spending everything stupid. 0 out of 10. Not even a consideration. Debt. Luckily we don't have collections or IRS debt, but it's still pretty bad. I think it's going to be about a 2 out of 10 emergency fund. There's nothing in savings.

[Athena]

Not anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. 0 out of 10. Retirement. 0 out of 10. Real estate 0 out of 10. Being generous Hammer financial score 0.5 out of 10. Make sure to check out all the resources linked in the description below as they are what I use or would use in specific situations, including the best budgeting program in the history of the Internet. Now stick around for the Post show Noah's about to get today on the Financial Audit Post show. I call it hero Get a little aggro in my little meditation. To watch the Financial Audit post show, click the join button below.