"Financial Audit Doesn't Work"

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Financial Audit – "Financial Audit Doesn't Work" (Dec 12, 2025)

Host: Caleb Hammer
Guest: Charlie, 34, HR Coordinator from Seattle, WA

---

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth financial "audit" for Charlie, a payroll/HR professional from Seattle. The central theme centers on Charlie's struggle with debt, the efficacy (or lack thereof) of popular personal finance tools and philosophies, and confronting the ways that mindset and behaviors—rather than just plans—drive financial outcomes. Caleb maintains his signature blend of tough love, humor, and sharp critique throughout, resulting in both practical advice and a vivid examination of excuses and self-sabotage that often undermine financial progress.

---

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Charlie’s Profile & Current Situation (01:16–04:19)

• Charlie works in HR/payroll at a healthcare company in Seattle; earns $3,120/hr or ~$3,800/month net.
• Lives alone in a studio on Seattle's East Side, paying $1,030 in rent—considered unusually low for the area.
• Also owns a house in Missouri (used to live there; rents it to a friend; now plans to sell).

Caleb [04:20]: “That gives you room left over with your income... what the f*** is going on?”

---

2. The Problem with Budget Tools & Financial Scores (04:33–08:25, 22:44–25:03)

• Charlie attempted Caleb’s "Hammer Financial Score" and found it "lacking nuance," mainly due to her unusual scenario (being a renter & an out-of-state homeowner).
• Charlie prefers Ramit Sethi's "Conscious Spending Plan" for its detail/context.

Charlie [05:52]: “I just really feel like it’s super missing nuance.”
Caleb [06:04]: “It’s just a quick snapshot... not an evaluation of your entire life.”

• Hammer’s take: Any tool can only be an assessment or a plan, not both. Different tools and approaches fit different personalities and situations.

---

3. Socializing, Debt Accumulation, and Excuses (08:25–13:50)

• Charlie blames part of her debt on "trying to keep up" with wealthier friends and her ex-boyfriend’s social lifestyle.
• Admits to racking up credit card debt after moving, travel (notably a trip to Hawaii), and trying to maintain social engagements multiple times a month.

Caleb [09:31]: “You wouldn’t be going into credit card debt because you have enough money left to go socialize.” Charlie [13:09]: “Three to four [concerts] a month... My Chemical Romance, A Day to Remember, Coheed and Cambria...” Caleb [13:24]: “That’s a crazy number... you could afford this!”

---

4. Relationship & Avoiding Tough Conversations (10:20–16:38)

• Charlie seeks to improve finances for her new boyfriend (dating eight months) who’s financially disciplined but dismisses money talk as “not important” for their relationship.
• Caleb repeatedly challenges her self-worth and questions whether the relationship helps or hinders her goals.

Caleb [11:22]: “...he says he doesn't care. That is a massive impact on your life. I'm sorry, you sound desperate.”

---

5. The Car Accident & Systemic Critique (16:38–20:27)

• Charlie totaled a car in 2017 after running a (second) red light; underinsured; stuck with a $40,000 uninsured balance.
• Attorney advised prepping for bankruptcy; stopped paying debts; credit tanked.
• Moved into subsidized housing; Caleb criticizes both her choices and the broader inefficiencies/problem of such systems.

Caleb [19:00]: "You got a car you couldn't afford. You were a literal moron and ran a red light and smashed into a car." Caleb [20:07]: "The system's f***ed... It has never worked in the history of ever..."

---

6. Financial Philosophy Smackdown: Hammer, Ramit, Dave Ramsey, and Others (22:44–25:03, 32:15–32:39)

• A lively back-and-forth on the relative merits and limitations of various financial gurus, scoring systems, and plans.
• Caleb’s bottom line: “As long as it works for you and you actually change your behavior, it’s all good.”
• They agree all plans are similar on basics; approach (tough love vs. soft encouragement) is the primary difference.

---

7. The Reality: Spending Habits, Missed Payments, and Excuses (35:10–48:15)

• Despite consuming money content for years, Charlie’s spending hasn’t improved; recent months show $600+ eating out, $800+ groceries, etc.
• Repeated use of “out of sight, out of mind,” lack of rigorous budgeting and missed minimum payments.
• Repeatedly attempts to take credit for “wanting to change” or “mindset” as if these were accomplishments.

Caleb [38:10]: “You cannot tell me this is healthier... you spent $700 eating out.” Caleb [41:12]: “...That is not health.” Caleb [47:00]: "That is your fault. Your spending behavior, your lack of responsibility, your immaturity."

---

8. Budgeting Systems and False Starts (43:23–46:00)

• Charlie bounces between pen-and-paper, buggy apps, and failed attempts at automation (auto-pay, Rocket Money, DollarWise).
• Caleb insists that "not being able to afford DollarWise" is a self-delusion given her spending elsewhere.

---

Notable Quotes / Memorable Moments

• On Excuses & Coping
  • Caleb [75:31]: “I’d rather you shut up than say that. Okay good. ‘I’m going to.’ Maybe you can tell me why you didn’t. But don’t give me a cope. ‘I want to change.’ ... Everything here suggests you won’t.”
• On Behavior vs. Mindset
  • Caleb [68:32]: “Mindset, not behavior. So I don’t care. ... Just because your mindset has changed does not excuse not changing your behavior.”
• On Systemic Blame
  • Caleb [20:02]: "The system’s f***ed... It’s just a performative policy. It’s a virtue signal policy..."

---

9. Details of Charlie’s Debts & Spending (51:14–90:22)

• Multiple cards maxed out ($2K+ each, 30–36% interest, all closed or closing after failed “self-control”)
• IRS debt ($550+ from prior unfiled return, $53 from last year—unpaid out of “forgetfulness”)
• Student loans ($56,000 federal, Perkins loan in default for study abroad)
• Affirm and other buy-now/pay-later plans for tech/gadgets she admits she doesn’t need.
• Ongoing theme: buying things she “wants” but can’t afford (“Bluetooth headphones for walking”; “expensive watch as part of a bundle”)
• Still attempts self-justification: "It was my FSA money..." / "Had to buy the bundle..."
• Charlie rarely acknowledges how choices drive her situation, defaulting to “I’m trying to change” after pushback.

---

10. Current (and Not-So-Sound) Solutions Proposed (57:51–91:10)

• Charlie plans to sell Missouri house (claims double its value, estimates from realtor/Zillow) to pay down debt, though admits her habits haven't shifted enough for this to be genuinely sustainable.
• Caleb is skeptical, noting any one-off windfall/“consolidation” without ongoing behavior change risks simply repeating the past.

Caleb [58:24]: “That’s not a sustainable debt payoff plan... I’ve seen it on the show: every time someone’s tried to do that, it doesn’t work unless the behavior changes.”

---

Financial Snapshot / Final Tally (Summary from [88:50] onward)

• Total minimum payments (non-mortgage): $734/mo.

• Utilities/Internet: $160/mo.

• Phone: $100/mo.

• EV charging: $160/mo.

• Medical: via FSA, maxed out yearly.

• Food: $300 meal-prep; up to $700/month eating out (recently).

• Car Insurance: $350/mo.

• Leftover after basics (theory): ~$1,889/mo.—but disappears due to non-budgeted spending.

• Retirement: ~$7,000–$8,000; dramatically behind for age.

---

11. Final Thoughts & Advice (91:10– End)

• Hammer’s prescription:
  • Budget honestly (digitally recommended, not pen/paper)
  • Prove ability to follow a budget 2–3 months before using house-sale windfall to pay debts
  • Prioritize emergency fund and retirement immediately thereafter
  • Stop seeking gold stars, hug-tokens, or victory laps for mindset alone—a behavior shift is the real win.
  • If audience members identify with Charlie, they must focus on real change, not just hope or intention.

---

Most Striking Exchanges

• Behavior over Mindset:

  • Caleb [67:38]: “You’re taking the ‘W’ before it’s happened... you’re getting the win of saying, ‘I’m going to work on it’... instead of actually putting in the results.”
  • Caleb [68:39]: “You can’t come on here, say, 'I’m changing'... when everything on paper is completely sh*t and expect a high five.”

• Tool or Plan Doesn’t Matter Without Action:
  Caleb [24:45]: “Follow whatever plan you want to, as long as it works. That’s all that matters.”

• On Systemic Subsidies:
  Caleb [19:00]: “So you making dumbass choices equals you get funded by us?... What a joke.”

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Charlie’s Career and Housing Situation: 01:16–04:19
• Financial Tools/Score Discussion: 04:33–08:25, 22:44–25:03
• Personal Debt Details: 13:50, 35:10–48:15, 51:14–91:10
• Behavior vs. Mindset Clash: 67:38–68:39
• Systemic Policy Rant: 19:47–20:27
• Financial Plan Going Forward: 57:51–91:10
• Final Budget Breakdown: 88:50–91:10

---

Summary Verdict

This episode starkly illustrates how knowledge of financial principles, the existence of powerful assessment tools or plans, and strong intentions count for little without real behavioral change and accountability over time. Caleb repeatedly presses Charlie to confront uncomfortable truths about her choices and dismisses the notion that “mindset” or “trying” alone will fix deeply ingrained habits. Listeners will find both catharsis and a cautionary tale: real improvement means acting—consistently, and sometimes uncomfortably—until results, not just intentions or plans, show up in the numbers.

---

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Caleb [12:13]: “You’re the one... It’s your choice.”
• Caleb [19:00]: “You were a literal moron and ran a red light and smashed into a car.”
• Caleb [68:32]: “Mindset, not behavior. So I don’t care.”
• Charlie [82:58]: “Bachelor’s in English literature.”
  Caleb: "Oh, good debt. What are we doing?"

For more, watch the post-show for follow-up and deeper dives (Hammer Elite membership required).

Transcript

[A]

Tito's handmade vodka is America's favorite vodka for a reason.

[B]

From the first legal distillery in Texas, Tito's is six times distilled till it's just right and naturally gluten free, making it a high quality spirit that mixes with just about anything from the smoothest martinis to the best Bloody Marys.

[A]

Tito's is known for giving back, teaming.

[B]

Up with non profits to serve its communities and do good for dogs. Make your next cocktail with Tito's, distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas.

[A]

40% alcohol by volume.

[B]

Savor responsibly.

[A]

To watch episodes of Financial Audit a week earlier, check us out on YouTube. You got a car you couldn't afford.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You were a literal moron and ran a red light and smashed into a car.

[B]

Yes, it was an accident.

[A]

Yes, it was a car accident. So you making dumb choices equals you get funded by us. But I'm sure. Can you shut the up? I'm kind of talking to you.

[B]

I mean, I am a Gemini 400.

[A]

My Black Friday site wide blowout is live. You can get 20% off everything in the store with code BF20. That is 20 off courses, merch, and even the brand new master your money membership. But don't wait too long. This sale ends at Midnight on Friday, December 5th. Happy Black Friday and enjoy your savings.

[B]

Hi, I'm Charlie. I'm 34 from Seattle, Washington, and this is Financial audit.

[A]

Hey, thanks for coming down to Austin. We're filming on Halloween. That's why you're spooky. It doesn't really match up for when these people are seeing that, but I appreciate it. What do you do up in Seattle for a living?

[B]

I am an HR coordinator. And so basically, I mostly do payroll.

[A]

So you're getting laid off soon?

[B]

No, I'm the only person who does payroll at my company.

[A]

Okay, well, maybe not then. Just HR is just so many HR layoffs this year. Like, the easiest one to cut.

[B]

Well, I live. I work in the health care field.

[A]

So healthcare is also getting cut this year.

[B]

Is it really?

[A]

Yeah, it's recession resistant. Not recession proof. There is still, especially on more local instances. I mean, Seattle's a major metro, so you probably have a little extra protection there, but who knows? Okay, very good. What do you make in this job?

[B]

Yeah, I make 3,120 an hour.

[A]

Okay, how many hours a week are you working?

[B]

40 hours a week.

[A]

Good. What hits your pay per paycheck?

[B]

Net is right at 1900 a paycheck.

[A]

That's every two weeks. I assume. Very good. Now we're talking 3800. Seattle ain't a cheap city by any means. Yeah. How we doing around that 38?

[B]

Oh man, it's. It's not easy. Thankfully I make enough that I can live on my own in a little studio apartment, but.

[A]

Well, are you in like the heart?

[B]

No, not really. I live what we call on the east side, so. Across the lake.

[A]

Is it because it's in the direction of the east?

[B]

Well, yes, it's on the east side of the lake.

[A]

That is a unique name that they call that. That is in no other city.

[B]

Yeah, no, of course not, but people from Seattle will know.

[A]

People from every city will know where the east side is.

[B]

Well, no, because. So Seattle.

[A]

Okay. I don't care.

[B]

Oh, wow. I mean, I don't.

[A]

Who does? I'm sorry, that's. I mean, I'll just be blunt. Okay. So people come in and they ask for help to fix with their checks. Other than that, you're really just pushing button.

[B]

Yeah, I mean for the payroll is.

[A]

Mostly automated unless there's like bonus and things coming in. But even still. That's still mostly automated.

[B]

Yeah, I mean I answer any questions that they have about payroll and then I also update for a 1k benefits, things like that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. I also partially work in finance for the company. I help out in our accounts payable and accounts receivables departments.

[A]

Uh huh. Help out. Well, you're not getting paid more for that, so that's in your.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Again, I don't really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doesn't really impact anything here. But that's exciting, I guess. Extra things to put under your resume belt. Now you're able to afford the studio apartment on the east side. The very unique east side. Well, that's good. How much does your studio cost?

[B]

10, 30.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Again, Seattle, it is an expensive area. Not even downtown studio.

[B]

That's actually really cheap bucks.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Area.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's still pretty. But I mean that gives you room left over with your income. I mean you're well within that like 30% and that's pretty net income. So what the is going on? What are we talking about?

[B]

Yeah, so I, you know, I have tried to like keep up with social lizing in Seattle and try to keep up with socializing. Yeah. And I kind of tried to do your financial score, but.

[A]

You tried?

[B]

I tried. I did it. But it wasn't. It wasn't super accurate. It was really missing nuance for.

[A]

What's your nuance yeah. So I didn't take into account that you're trying to socialize.

[B]

No. So I rent an apartment in Seattle, but I own a Missouri.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Well.

[A]

That is. That would apply to your real estate score.

[B]

Yes. So the real estate score is like, do you live, do you own your primary house?

[A]

Well, it's not a primary residence.

[B]

Have debt.

[A]

It's not a primary residence.

[B]

It's just really simple and it's.

[A]

That's not a primary residence.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If you answer the question correctly, it goes into another bucket. That would further clarify.

[B]

Right. So the section that I'm looking at it like it's talking about my real estate availability and it doesn't have an option once you say you own a house to say, no, I don't live there.

[A]

But you marked it as your primary.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. I just really feel like it's like super missing nuance.

[A]

Super. Mostly just on the. You marking.

[B]

Well, it's just really, really simple. Like, it's simple, it's easy.

[A]

It's just a quick snapshot of where people stand. Yeah. Doesn't evaluate entire life tell you if you should commit suicide or not. That's not what it's doing. It's not. No. This is. It's a very. It's a quick snapshot. Caleb hemmer.com take yours. Yeah. It just tells you kind of where you are.

[B]

Yeah. I just feel like it really doesn't understand context.

[A]

Context of a very specific thing that you said. Yeah. I'm sure you could answer the question based on your thing. It is a little more rare for someone to own a rental property yet not have a primary residence. Because. And that would be calculated in a score because no one recommends in any financial space, mostly with real estate, of owning a rental property without owning a primary residence. That's the first step. How do you own a house out in Missouri?

[B]

Because I bought it when I was 25 and I grew up in Missouri, so it was where I lived. And then I moved to Seattle and didn't get rid of it.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because it was my backup plan. Like if.

[A]

Well, what's it doing now?

[B]

It's just I have a friend who lives there. They pay rent, they pay the mortgage.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It would be calculating a score. I'm so confused. I don't know. I feel like you didn't take it. Okay, maybe. And how long have you been in Seattle?

[B]

Since July20, 25 years.

[A]

Okay, so five years. What are you going to do with the house now then?

[B]

I am putting it on the market, actually.

[A]

Okay, so I don't really understand your complaint. Then. I'm a little confused. Okay, what did you get?

[B]

1.7.

[A]

Old Colton, the algorithm graded you wrong because it counted you as a homeowner. You are a homeowner.

[B]

Yeah, but it didn't give me the option to say both, Caleb.

[A]

Both what? Homeowner and renter.

[B]

Owner and rent.

[A]

But you're at least in the real estate market. That's what it's calculating whether or not you're an owner. It's not taking points away for being a renter either. It's being in the real estate market. You're. So what are you. Okay, great. I'm glad. Listen, I'll take your quiz next, okay? Okay, so we gave you a score, 1.79, which rounds to a 2. So you would have been a 2 out of 10 again. You get yours to Caleb Hammer dot com. It is free. So we stand in the world of finances. That's exciting. I'm glad you have an issue with the score. But you said one of the things you're focusing on why are. Is because you're trying to socialize. What does that even mean?

[B]

Yeah. So have you tried to socialize? Trying to socialize? Well, because I am 34 and I wanted friends, but also, a couple years ago, I was dating someone who made a much higher wage than I did. A much higher.

[A]

What does that have to do with socializing?

[B]

He's very social. Like he.

[A]

Okay, great. He made more money. What does that have to do with you not being able to socialize? So you're throwing your life away to socialize? What's socializing? You should have about 3/4 of your income left, right? Just about. To your rent. Closer to two thirds, maybe. I don't know. But even still, what is this socializing you're talking about? You're dropping hundreds at a bar every night.

[B]

Not every night.

[A]

What the are you on about?

[B]

Hundreds every weekend.

[A]

But even still, that shouldn't destroy you with where you're at of your needs versus.

[B]

Yeah, if you're looking at just my base cost, for sure. Yeah.

[A]

So that gives you wiggle room. So what are you talking about then?

[B]

Credit cards, man. They're killing me.

[A]

Okay, why are the credit cards killing you then? Because even still, you wouldn't be going in credit card debt because you have enough money. Money left over to go socialize.

[B]

Well, because the credit card debt existed before the socializing started, though.

[A]

Why? Why? If what we're spending on is socializing, how did they exist before the Socializing.

[B]

Well, so like, some of them exist for from moving, and then like, four of them were taken out for a trip to Hawaii with that.

[A]

Exactly. He made substantially more. But they didn't pay for it.

[B]

Well, we were technically broken up at the time.

[A]

Why the did you go?

[B]

Because legally, due to certain things, he couldn't take anyone else, and he had already paid for the flight and everything could.

[A]

Venmo, you okay? It doesn't matter. I mean, I have a note that one of the reasons you want to come on is cause you're in a new relationship, so we're not talking about that guy anymore. Anyway, you want to fix your debt so you can get more serious.

[B]

Yes. Ooh.

[A]

How long have you guys been dating?

[B]

Eight months.

[A]

Okay, cool. So you're wanting to get more serious and you want to fix your.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because he's really amazing with finances. He pays off his credit card every two weeks whenever he gets paid. He only.

[A]

Why don't you?

[B]

That's a great question. Because right now it's racked up high enough that I don't feel like I. With the minimums.

[A]

What does he know about your debt? If you're trying to get more serious. Eight months in certainly financial conversation by then, potentially.

[B]

I've tried to talk to him about it. He's not really interested. He doesn't really care.

[A]

Oh, sounds like he really likes you.

[B]

Yeah, I told him the situation with my car, and he's like, why? Why? Why are you telling me this? I don't care. And I was like, I mean, yeah, sure. He just.

[A]

You said, yeah, sure. Wow, that's love.

[B]

Oh, no, no, for sure.

[A]

Sounds like, let's get more serious with that.

[B]

No, he just doesn't think that my finances affect him. Am I desperate? No, absolutely.

[A]

Spending a ton of money to socialize. And you complained about getting 34 and trying to socialize. And now you're compromising a guy who you bring something you want to talk to about to him. He says he doesn't care. That is a massive impact of your life. I'm sorry. You sound desperate.

[B]

Oh, wow. No.

[A]

How else would you describe it?

[B]

So there's this thing called the Seattle freeze. It usually takes newbies a couple of years before they start to be able to get friends in Seattle. It's a normal thing.

[A]

Normal thing that happens in no other, you know, adulthood. When you move to a new location, you think everything is very unique to Seattle guys. It has any side guys. It's harder to make friends when you're adults. And you Move there and you're not going to school The Hannah bout. You're one of those people that thinks they're from a really unique city.

[B]

No. So when I finally did start making friends, I tried to keep up with them and they make exorbitantly more than I do.

[A]

Why'd you try to keep up with them? That's your choice. You're the one it.

[B]

Because I felt like that was what I needed to do at the time.

[A]

They would have judged you. What were you trying to keep up with? Or like what was what was needed? What was being done that you needed to keep up with?

[B]

So going to concerts, events you can.

[A]

Afford concerts and events. Your knees.

[B]

Not with my finances, no.

[A]

Well, no, no, no. But you're suggesting why you're in these finances are because of that. Yeah. So that doesn't make any sense. You would have been able to afford it without putting them on credit cards.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So no, it's not because they were finances. Your finances are there based on what you've done. But you should have been able to do that. Cash flowed.

[B]

Yeah, you would think so for sure. But.

[A]

So this doesn't make sense. Going to a concert every once in a while wouldn't make a break every.

[B]

Once in a while. Okay. Three to four times a month.

[A]

How big? Concerts? Cause concerts aren't always expensive. If they're a local concert, it's not huge.

[B]

I mean, it's like all time low. My Chemical Romance A Day to Remember Coheating Cambria I know one well. My Chemical Romance.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wow. Okay. Yeah. All time. Yeah. Just like emo C Split Rizz music.

[A]

Yep, yep, yep. We got it. Okay, so again with the number you have, Is it a crazy number? No, but if we're comparing it to the studio price you have for your rent and then we budget everything else in. You could afford this, it would not have been. What is your debt? What is your total number of debt that you try to tell your boyfriend who you love, who doesn't care?

[B]

So I have about 56,000 in student loans.

[A]

How about. What's your total debt?

[B]

135,124.

[A]

And yes, there's a more mortgage in there, which is incredibly cheap mortgage, actually, because the vast majority of the debt is not the mortgage, surprisingly, even though it's $124,000. Okay, so maybe the only reason he finds out what's going on with you is because he sees this episode.

[B]

Well, I told him before, after he.

[A]

Said he didn't give a. Please stop talking to me.

[B]

No. Well, no. So I told him kind of, hey, I applied for this show. I'm going to talk to him about my finances. And he was like, well, I don't think that they're going to accept you because your finances are fine.

[A]

They're going to be bored with finances.

[B]

And Is he. No, he just didn't know about mine. I do a really good job of, like, hiding.

[A]

Fine. Why do you love this guy? This does not scream desperation. I'm sorry. Does it not?

[B]

No.

[A]

How?

[B]

He's amazing. He's gorgeous. He's the best person I've ever met in my life.

[A]

Never date best person you've ever. And he said, I don't give a shit. It stop. It wasn't like, I want to hear about your car. I want to hear about your finances. Off. Wow.

[B]

It was more like, my finances weren't important to our relationship. It didn't impact our relationship.

[A]

He said he didn't care, though, when you brought it up. Yeah.

[B]

So when I brought up.

[A]

That's the worst person you've ever met. That's why I think it's desperation.

[B]

No.

[A]

Why the would you stick with that? I would never stick with that.

[B]

When I brought up the car, it was because I was trying to warn him about the situation with the car and he didn't warn him. Yeah. I didn't want him to see the show and not know about the situation. Yeah, The. The car is an interesting situation.

[A]

I'm sure we'll get into it.

[B]

Yeah, we definitely will. But. Yeah, I just wanted to warn him ahead of time so that he wasn't like surpr and he was. It just wasn't. It was a non issue to him.

[A]

Let me see what this man looks like.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

And if we get his consent to put him on screen. We will, but I want to see what he looks like. Even though technically in Texas we don't need consent. But that's okay. We like to be respectful. Thought he was naked down under with us. Is he desperate?

[B]

No. I'm also amazing.

[A]

Can they see?

[B]

Sure. He looks so confused.

[A]

Hold on to this. As long as you got it.

[B]

Yeah, I'm in love.

[A]

Hold on. I understand why he's in love too.

[B]

Yeah. So in 2017, I got into a major car accident and totaled both my car and the other person's car. I got chased for two years by their insurance company.

[A]

Whose fault was it?

[B]

It was mine for sure.

[A]

What were you doing, you beast?

[B]

So in the city that I was in, the. There were two lights that were less than A block away from each other. And when I also.

[A]

Has never happened in any other town.

[B]

I thought it was odd, but. Yeah. I didn't realize that the second one was red. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so we should take your license away because you're a moron.

[B]

No, no, otherwise I'm.

[A]

I don't feel sick otherwise. Other than when I slammed into someone's vehicle because I can't look at stoplights.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So because of that, they were.

[A]

Oh, and you were slamming in the deer left and right before that accident as well.

[B]

That's my left and right.

[A]

Yeah. You were just kept. You kept. You slammed into multiple deer before that as well.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Oh, yeah. The thing I just said, I had to clarify like three times.

[B]

So my. The previous car, just for some backstory.

[A]

Why did it. Your credit.

[B]

So the previous car had hit two deer in the same month and ruined my radiator. They replaced the radiator. Radiator covered by insurance, but it just kept leaking. So I randomly went and looked at cars and ended up buying a car that was way above my price limit. And three months later, two days after I paid the very first payment on it, I totaled it. And the truck that I ran into was worth 65,000 and my insurance only covered 20,000, so. 25,000. So his insurance came after me for 40,000. They kept moving the date for two years for the court, and my attorney suggested that I prepare for bankruptcy. Told me to stop paying all my debts.

[A]

Okay. So now we understand why your credit's flat. So correct me if I'm wrong in this. You got a car you couldn't afford.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You were a literal. And ran a red light and smashed into a car.

[B]

Yes, it was an accident.

[A]

Yes, it was a car accident. And then that your credit out of your choices and moronicness. Yeah. Which prevented you from getting a place that you wanted, so you milked the taxpayer. So you making dumbass choices equals you get funded by us. Golf. That makes no sense. That is not a justification. That's even worse. You are a moron. You don't know how to look at stoplights. You are a moron. You bought a car you couldn't afford. That doesn't mean we have endlessly higher rents to fund you. What a joke.

[B]

I wasn't the one who set up that subsidy. I just.

[A]

The one who milked it.

[B]

I just took it because it's there and I qualify for it.

[A]

So why not milked it?

[B]

If I'm not going to live there, someone else will. Who? Drive.

[A]

Trust me, I'M criticizing the system and.

[B]

You multiple neighbors of mine who park in the garage have Porsches.

[A]

Yes, I know the system's everyone and it has never worked in the history of ever. It has never been proven to work. Never. There's not a single rent controlled city that has actually benefited the vast majority of people. Small percentage of course, for the negative effect of everyone. It's just a performative policy. It's a virtue signal policy. It's one that sounds good, one that sounds all moral but actually leads to results that hurt the majority. And that's all that matters in the end is what actually happens. Now what sounds good to advocate for so I don't give a look Private student loans can make you feel like you're one missed payment away from selling your grandma's heirlooms. We miss you Grandma. Why? Refi says Chill out. No more sacrificing the family jewels. They don't reduce you to a credit number. They actually want to see if you actually plan on paying them. And by the way, they're providing interest rates under 6%, which is practically a unicorn in the student loan jungle. I mean, some lenders want to charge so much that you'd swear they're putting your firstborn on layaway. Tired of monthly payments so high you can't afford a single sweet treat? Yrefi has gotcha. They'll rearrange your payment plan, ease the monthly hit, and even let your poor co signer off the hook. Mom or dad can finally breathe. Oh, and if you think you'll just get stuck in a call center, guess what? 4.6 stars. And Google says y Refi actually picks up and treats you like a real human shocker, right? In finance, that's about as rare as me not slamming the desk every single episode. So if you're done fantasizing about robbing a bank, don't do that. By the way, check out why Refi. They're here to help you actually crush these loans without selling your kidneys on the black market. Head to yrefy.com hammer that is yrefi.com hammer or or call 889-733-978 that is 889-733-978 and see how a real personal approach can help you escape the private loan nightmare. Because let's be honest, living with crippling debt until you're 90 is not the retirement plan you dreamed of. Wanna know a dirty little secret? And no, I'm not starting an Only you're not broke because you suck with money you just can't see where it's going. If your bank account is empty at the end of every month, that is not bad luck. That is bad tracking. And it's exactly why I use dollar wise. It shows you exactly where your money's going every single month. Spending subscriptions and savings all in one simple dashboard. Everything you need and nothing you don't. And when you download Dollar Wise today, you'll get to try it for free, plus three months for just $9.99, so you can finally take control and see what your money's been doing behind your back. Click below to get started. Okay, so we'll jump in. I guess you have a problem with the Hammer Financial score. Problem with anything else.

[B]

Yeah. So do you know Vermeet? Have you heard of Ramit?

[A]

I've heard of Ramit. I've never made it more than a few minutes into his content because I don't think anyone can.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I watch his all the time.

[A]

I think one of about 50,000 viewers per video.

[B]

I mean, he has over a million subscribers. Subscribers are nothing on the Internet, so.

[A]

And how many seasons was in that Netflix show that came out a few years ago?

[B]

I don't know. I haven't watched the Netflix show yet. But I think his conscious spending plan is more worthwhile than your Hammer score.

[A]

I don't know his conscious spending plan, so I can't speak on it. Listen, I'm goofing on him. I don't actually think bad about him. I saw he made a couple videos where he tried to milk our name, which is objectively bigger than his in every way whatsoever by every metric presented on the Internet.

[B]

Well, I know the money guys like him.

[A]

Yeah, but he's probably good as a person. I'm sure. But after he tried to milk my name in order for his own views, as many youtubers do who just aren't successful on their own, then that's why I'm kind of, you know, being a little goony with him. But I'm sure I'm. Can you shut the up? I'm kind of talking. You listen. She's like, what the is happening? Like, what are we doing here? I'm the interrupter. Not Ramit, not you. I'm so. Yeah, so, yeah, good. But I'm sure he's a good dude. I'm sure he has a good show. Obviously Netflix didn't think so, or else he would have come back for a season two. But I'm sure his conscious spending plan's nice. And I And I. Of the few things I know about him, I think he advocates for renting over buying, which, honestly, I'm on that board now. Market has just beyond outperformed buying. So at this point, it makes more sense to rent. And I'm sure he's a nice student. People like his book, so I'm okay with that. And the money guy plan works. My plan works. Dave Ramsey's plan works. I'm sure Ray meets plan works. Follow whatever plan you want to, as long as. As long as it works, that's all that matters.

[B]

I'm trying.

[A]

Well, then obviously it's not working and you don't vibe with this, so maybe you need a different plan. Some plans work for others. Some plans need. Some people need tough love. Some people need soft coddling. Some people need, you know, intellectual talk. Some people need a nice little goon sesh. Okay? Everyone is different as long as you. The end result is you get better. That's all that matters in the end.

[B]

It said that my fixed costs are 84% of my income.

[A]

Well, you've built all your debt up, you tit. That's what happens. I think my plan would have said that too, if I asked that question, which you don't. It's not a plan, it's a score. Like what? One's a plan, one's an assessment. Yeah, they are different. Okay.

[B]

I also can't do stoplights.

[A]

Can't figure out online assessments. Can't really do much, it seems.

[B]

I also had an issue with one of the sponsors that you did.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. Why do you even watch this show?

[B]

Because I think it's hilarious and I.

[A]

Well, all you have is complaints.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Okay. I've been watching. What's the little sponsor you didn't like?

[B]

It was the payday loan sponsor.

[A]

Not a payday loan.

[B]

Okay. It's.

[A]

It's cash advance, which. No, no, no. Just like credit cards. I advocate for the fizz card as well, which is a credit card. It is borrowing money. Borrowing money is not an inherently bad thing. I like using these tools. I like using a little. If I want to get, you know, something, I do a little advancing. Like, that's okay as long as it's managed, actively paid back, but it's okay.

[B]

So the issue I have with it.

[A]

First of all, if it was a payday loan, it would be like a thousand percent interest. No, it's one of those things where you attach it to your check, know, and when your payday hits, you can, like, get the pay, like a Week early. If like bills are lining weird. So just like credit cards. Okay, you're trying to talk while I'm actually explaining what the thing is because you have a problem with it. And I can actually explain what it is because of course you probably have no nuanced idea of how it actually works. But in reality, just like a credit card, it can be absolutely abused. And personal loans, bankruptcy, private, you know, private student, a lot, even federal student loans can be used for. People use it for things all the time that aren't about school. Every debt can be a tool. It can be a hammer that you can use to build a house. It can also be swung back and hit you in the eye. If you use it incorrectly, then I would tell you to off. Don't get anywhere near it. In any future read I do for it in the future will include something like that of course. But if you used it correctly, why the not It's a tool. It's a tool that can benefit you, that you can use to your advantage. Like a zero percent furniture loans. I do those all the time. When I get something new, I don't abuse it because I'm a critical person who can manage it.

[B]

Yeah. So as a payroll specialist and being in payroll, I see employees all the time.

[A]

Because abuse it and not use it correctly.

[B]

These companies offer it as part of their benefits package.

[A]

So abuse it and not use it.

[B]

Correctly, they get stuck in a cycle, Kayla.

[A]

Exactly. Hey, guess what? You're stuck in a credit card cycle.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I see this every day. It doesn't mean I'm Dave Ramsey who says all credit cards should die. If you can use credit cards, use credit cards. If you can use that, use it. It is just like gamb. If you think it is fun and you can actually manage it. I don't care if you can smoke weed and actually manage it. I don't care if you can go have a drink at the bar and manage it. I don't care. If you are someone who is endlessly addictive personality, never step foot near those things. That's why I don't drink or smoke. I know I'd be right. I would be down that hole immediately. If you can't manage credit cards, don't use it. If you can't take a personal loan out to consolidate a debt and then build up your debt, then don't do it. If you can't manage that payroll thing and not completely, don't do it. It is the same for any and every tool activity. If you can't start Gooning without ever being able to finish, don't start gooning because you'll be there forever. If you can't play video games without also being able to go outside and still socialize without it destroying your life, then don't do it. It is the same for everything, lady. Everything is nuance. More than just, oh, you know, I've seen some bad things. I see bad things here every day with that doesn't mean I say don't get a capital one card.

[B]

I'm just saying that I really respected and appreciated that you always, like, told people not to use those. And so it just really disheartened people on this show.

[A]

Yeah, I tell you not to use a credit card because you're a Who can't use credit cards. You're not a credit card person.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

So I tell people on this show, trust me, do not do debt consolidations. You can't. You can't. I do. People on this show do not open a credit card. You can't. They are different. I am different. You are broken. You can fix it and become a person who can use those tools. Hey, people with gambling addictions on the show, I say don't gamble. Lindsay, she loves a nice little Vegas trip. She can manage it. So I say, go, girl. Go. Spend that money. Have some fun. It is a nuanced thing. And obviously the people on this show. You're correct. Should not.

[B]

You and the people on this show are your viewers. You say that all the time. That most people who come on the show are from the viewers.

[A]

Well, one, again, because you didn't listen correctly. Every single person who comes on this show is a viewer. So let's start that. Number two, the viewers are tens of millions a week. I have not had tens of millions of people on this show. We put out surveys once a year collecting the demographics of our show and the financial positions on the show. The at least 50% of the people on the show have an incredible net worth. Do incredibly well. Many people are in the beginning stages and they use this show as finding a way to do better. Not every sponsorship is gonna be for everyone. Guess what, ya tit? I do a netsuite sponsorship as well. That's for businesses that make over a million dollars a year. Is that for every guest who comes on this show? Is that for every single person in the audience? Well, of course not, because that's only 55,000 businesses that. Because not every business is large enough to take advantage of that product. So obviously it is curated to people that would Benefit from that product. You. I'm going to get into these numbers. You are not a smart person. This is. This is ridiculous. Where are you?

[B]

I'm just saying that I.

[A]

You have no nuance. You are like an Internet person.

[B]

Kind of like your score.

[A]

The score has new nuance because if you select an answer to a question and then brackets into different points based on the answers you gave before. If it was you creating a score, it would be a survey with five questions that none of it change or adapt based on your previous responses. Because you're TikTok brained. Your TikTok brain, where you can't see nuance on anything. Brained. I'm not saying you're a tiktoker. Okay, so your financial score sounds like it was a two out of ten rounded up. Yeah. And if you want that, you can get that@caleb hammer.com like I already said. But if you don't want to be like a guest who ends up on the show, one, don't get in a car wreck like her because it clearly ruined her brain. But two, you can also not download the dollar wise budgeting app. Take the free trial, see if you like it. And if you do, sign up for the annual version because you save a lot of money when you do that. And then I'll personally sign my budget friendly cookbook and mail it directly to your door. I usually have a copyright here to hold up, but it appears to have been stolen from me, so I don't have that. And that's okay. Dollarwise app and calebhammer.com anything else you want to complain about that you didn't take more than 30 seconds to think about before you did?

[B]

No.

[A]

What are you going to say on Dave Ramsey's plan of saving up dollars before going into debt instead of having your highest deductible paid for like the money guys advocate for is actually more smart.

[B]

Dear God. No. I don't like Dave Ramsey.

[A]

You don't like him?

[B]

I like the money guys. I like you. I like Ramit.

[A]

You know, we all agree on 95% of financial finances. Girl, you're a fan of this show. This is the judgiest show that has ever existed.

[B]

Okay, but you're like goony judgy.

[A]

Yeah, I'm goony judgy and he's religious judgy. Exactly. It's different. Yeah, it is. Okay. It is different. Okay. Capital one.

[B]

Yeah, Capital one. Oh, man. What's the balance on that one?

[A]

Wow. I would hope you know. Okay. $2,071.58.

[B]

Cool. That's my platinum card that was opened in 2022 because I had to quickly move out of an apartment into another apartment. Why?

[A]

Well, because they decided to stop subsidizing you because you make decent money and you just blow the rest on concerts.

[B]

I mean, not really, but kind of.

[A]

Okay. Oh.

[B]

So I didn't know that that was a subsidized apartment. So I filled out the paperwork and I was approved.

[A]

Good.

[B]

And then three months later, they came back and were like, oh, by the way, you make too much. And I had to move out within 30 days. So I was like, okay. Yeah. No, I was.

[A]

I don't know if I'd kick you out. I'd make you pay market rate until you could transition. That seems like a pretty brutal system that would just make you pay market rate. But. Okay. But you had to borrow to move. So listen, you're in subsidized rent, meaning you had a lot more money left over. Why'd you have to borrow to move?

[B]

Because I don't have any savings. I have a really hard time saving money.

[A]

Hard time? Why do you have a hard time?

[B]

I'm kind of one of those people who. I make sure that all of my, like, minimums are paid every month. Wait, everything's paid and then anything left kind of just.

[A]

I do have a concern.

[B]

Disappears into the ether.

[A]

Aether. I do have a concern.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

You said you've watched the show for two years and it sounds like you've been watching Remit. Is it Ramit or Remi?

[B]

Ramit.

[A]

Oh, okay. I always thought it was Ramit before this, but I guess that is a little more. Yeah, that sounds right. Okay, good. You've been watching him for a while. You've known of Dave Ramsey for a while. If you've been consuming all these things and you've done nothing, what is this actually gonna change this conversation? Yeah, because you've been watching the content. You've been. See, even the 50% that answer our annual quiz that do better, you know, than vast majority Americans who are in the audience. And then about 25% are struggling and 25% are on their way. That's usually about what we see. You know, they still watch the show. 1. Entertainment 2. Motivation. Surrounding yourself with money, content, money, books, things like that. Keep it people motivated to their goals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You've been surrounding yourself with this shit for years and you've done nothing. In fact, I've seen a snapshot of last month and it's horrendous.

[B]

Yeah. What the this year I finally got to focus on my mental health and what mental health. So I don't want to talk too much about that, but it did help me a lot to finally get my meds in line, so now I'm okay.

[A]

So you feel a little better this year. That's good. Great. Well, that we're at the end of the year, so things are getting better. No, no, no. I see a late fee on this first credit card is actually what I see. I also see income coming in of basically what you said, actually a little more. It must have been a triple paycheck month. Okay. That came in. Yet you still spent more than that. Hundreds more, in fact. So, yes, believe it or not, numbers actually add up in equal numbers. And that's what the accountant who went through this found. I know you help with payroll, but for sure.

[B]

No, I totally agree. Numbers do count.

[A]

Yeah. The amount of stickers on front of it is not gonna make the math work more. So the reality of the statements that we have, which is the month shows you bringing in $3,810.92 and total out, out.

[B]

Wait, it was how much in 3,810? Oh, okay.

[A]

Of the statements that we have. Statements that we have, 4108. 52 went out. Can you tell me how much went to going out? Because, listen, you're getting better. How much went to going out to eat?

[B]

Yeah. So going out to eat was about 600, $528.79. Okay.

[A]

And so you wrote that down yourself, and yet you've changed nothing.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That's an interesting strategy.

[B]

In the last month, things have definitely changed.

[A]

Oh, the month I knew I was coming on the show, almost like every single person in the history of the entire existence of this show. That means nothing. If you're going on the Biggest Loser, then it doesn't matter if you were healthy for a month. Like, you know you're coming on the show. So the little. That's why we do the previous month, because this is a real month. This is what the life actually looks like. You're spending almost minimum, a thousand on bullshit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Reminder. We are subsidizing you spending $1,000 on bullshit. That is unacceptable. You're milking the taxpayer. You're making everyone's cost of living go up in Seattle so that you can spend a thousand dollars going out to eat and doing miscellaneous bullshit.

[B]

I don't think that trying to have fun and live my life while also being able to live a more healthy lifestyle is necessarily always bullshit.

[A]

Hold on. I mean, I'm sorry, listen, this is a complicated position to be in. I want to follow your rule for the one. Your thing. Yeah, Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm not gonna make fun of the thing you chose.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just don't follow me. I'm not going to.

[B]

But you can say I'm unhealthy.

[A]

You can't say living a healthier lifestyle. You can't say that here. You can't lie. A gym membership might be nice, but you can't say healthier lifestyle.

[B]

A gym membership.

[A]

Okay, well you can't say healthier lifestyle when a thousand dollars went just going and consuming bullshit. You cannot. I won't make fun of the thing. I follow every rule that the guest tells us to not do. She said don't make fun of it. So I'm not going to. That's great. I respect everyone and you get to make up your own rules. You cannot tell me that you are. This is being healthier.

[B]

So at the end of July, I completed.

[A]

Which by the way, pause. Cause I'm the interrupter. Yeah, I apologize for that. Listen, I will agree that yes, health comes before finances. I've always said mental health comes before finances. There's been follow ups where someone's mental health got worse. Their finances stay the same. I said focus on mental health before you do finances. Physical health absolutely does. We had a caller in to our Hammer Elite Hammer out show where someone needed a surgery and I said, go into depth for it. You need this. It's not an option. You're blowing a thousand dollars going out and doing bullshit. That is not health. If you pointed in here and there was 500 on Ozempic, I'd be like, I'm okay with that. This is not health.

[B]

Can I take one minute?

[A]

Take a step outside. Take a step outside. Welcome back. And I'm glad you're feeling better. We got some tears, anxiety tears. Right, okay. And I wasn't going to. I was just gonna strictly move on because I was like, oh, I don't want to trigger her. But I have a note, I think Colton typed it, that you wanted to explain yourself more.

[B]

Yeah. At the end of July. So middle of July, I went on a trip to Worlds of Fun in Kansas City with my best friend. And in 2023 I started taking WeGovy and I lost 80 pounds.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

So then I had to stop it in September of last year because I switched jobs. I went from a job that paid 23 an hour to my job. Now that May started at 30.

[A]

Why do you have to stop?

[B]

My new insurance doesn't cover it. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And that's why I am not on them anymore. But I am just doing a total life change. At the end of July, I started, I threw out everything in my pantry that was processed and replaced it all.

[A]

With whole foods, which I appreciate, but that comes back to where we ended.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You spent 700 going out to eat.

[B]

I know. I also spent, by my calculations, about 800 on groceries.

[A]

That's good. I'm not complaining. Did you hear me call out groceries? Did you hear me call out groceries? I didn't. I complained about the going out to eat. If I'm not complaining about it, I don't care about it. I complained about the going out to eat. I totally eat that. Is that healthy? No.

[B]

Well, hot pot is really healthy for you.

[A]

Really healthy.

[B]

Compared to other options of going out.

[A]

Compared to other options.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

If we're comparing getting going to a salad or a certain versus going to McDonald's, of course. But it's still. It's. I go to hot pot. I like hot pot. It's not like it's still incredibly high sodium. It is still a lot of things.

[B]

But I have lost £15 in the last three months.

[A]

So keep going. Yeah, I keep that going. I mean, that's a win for sure. But it's the 700 going out to eat.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Budget health as well.

[B]

Budgeting is so stinking hard. No, it's hard to start with the debt and then move like, get started, I guess.

[A]

Okay. What's hard about getting started?

[B]

Just like collecting everything, your minimum payments.

[A]

But it's that difficult if you put it in a budget and app like dollar wise though, because it just tells you, well, you get it all.

[B]

I can't afford dollar wise, Sue.

[A]

No, that's a literal blatant lie. You spend 700 going out to eat.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

It is. But also bucks a month, like, I can't afford, like with off.

[B]

Hey, I would like to explain to you. It's a podcast. Can I talk?

[A]

You can, but that was a lie that you can't afford it. Well, yes, but this alone is 400. So I like what?

[B]

Also with my ADHD, out of sight, out of mind, if I don't have it in front of me, I forget to do it. So I have a budget.

[A]

Book your subscriptions. You already spend $47.39 a month. Yeah. So yes, you can afford it now. I understand that. Maybe you're better pen on paper. That's okay, but you can use that to set up because you said setting up the hard part. So let it automate set up and then write it down.

[B]

So I did try setting up autopay.

[A]

That's auto pay I'm talking about. You said it's hard getting all the debt, you know, set up in terms of minimum payments, getting everything. Let the app automate what everything, where everything is going, and then just write that down and then you can manage it from there. But if you have the hard time of just getting it set up, then again, let us have some automate and write it down.

[B]

Well, I tried Rocket Money, but it didn't make any sense to me.

[A]

Well, a lot of them have a higher learning curve, which I also agree is kind of bad. So that's why we moved on from Rocket Money and we support dollar wise because it's much easier.

[B]

So I tried dollar wise at first. I was one of those that like started it right whenever it came out and it was real buggy, so I deleted it.

[A]

That's already done. Yeah, that's. That's long and gone.

[B]

I can try it again.

[A]

Yeah, it's a completely different app. It's not even close to what it was at the beginning. The looks and blue, everything's different. So it's a win win. You get money and I get money. These are called affiliates. And you get that sweet, sweet cash for signing up for some amazing products. The first one is Chime. This is a checking account that I personally use. And you get up to a $350 bonus with a new Chime checking account and earn up to 3.5% APY on your savings. And second, my investing app of choice these days is Webull. And get a 2% match on all of your money that you transfer over. And finally, sign up for for automated investing with acorns. Typically the sign up bonus is only 5 bucks, but with my link, you get $20. Ladies and gents. You get money? I get money. Enjoy. Links are in the description below. Is it just me or did the holidays just sneak up on us this year? One second, I'm judging people for putting up decorations too early and now I'm panicking because my guest room still looks like a storage unit and I've bought exactly zero gifts. Beautiful. But thankfully Wayfair exists. It's your last minute holiday survival kit. I picked up a new rug, throw pillows, and a set of guest towels because apparently paper towels aren't festive. All shipped fast, all for way less than I expected. And yes, the Delivery was free even for the big stuff. No dragging a dining table up the stairs like it's 1847. Wayfair's got everything. Storage for the post holiday chaos, decor to impress the judgmental relatives, and even kitchen gear if you're feeling brave enough to host. I'm talking gifts, guest press prep and holiday mood lighting all in one place. Get last minute hosting essentials, gifts for all of your loved ones and decor to celebrate the holidays. For way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home that is W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style, every home. Let's get back to the podcast.

[B]

But yeah, so paper and pen for me is probably the best but I definitely want to try dollar wise now that you guys have fit fixed it like my brother.

[A]

It's been fixed for a long time.

[B]

He really liked it.

[A]

Yeah. Cause it's good the whole engineering team over there working on it. Last time it was a third party that wasn't very good and that kind of sucks and mistake on my part. But as long as you fix mistakes, that's all that matters in the end.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Listen, you have a late fee on here.

[B]

Yeah. Why the so most of the late fees are because of the platinum card and one of my milestone cards. I didn't realize that they were due earlier then my other credit cards.

[A]

I said you were on autopay.

[B]

So I did try to set up autopay for all of my stuff but then 30 seconds I made a payment on my student loan and I checked the little box that says use this information to set up autopay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Five days later they took out the auto pay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It my account.

[A]

What was the payment?

[B]

260. So it may you should not be.

[A]

In a position where that maker breaks you with where you're being subsidized and where you're spending your money. 260. Will you spend 700 hundred going out to eat like yeah, that's you. That is not the student loan's fault. That is your fault. Your spending behavior, your lack of responsibility, your immaturity. It is your fault. You've had two late payments this year. So okay, maybe that excuses the first one. What about the other one?

[B]

I don't know about the other one. I don't know.

[A]

So this is behavior. This is you. This is not student loans.

[B]

Yeah, but I'm trying to change hundreds.

[A]

In interest this year so far. 30% interest rate. Okay.

[B]

I asked my mom about like how, like, what I would have learned from her about finances. And she said, what would have learned from her from growing up, like, being around her? I was like, how'd you handle your finances? And she was like, well, we didn't have savings. I didn't have 401k, but everything was paid for, and you had what you needed. And that's kind of like how my life has been so far. No, I'm saying it's not good. That's how it's been, and I want to change that.

[A]

Okay. When did you hear that from her?

[B]

Last week.

[A]

Oh, okay. I was gonna say, if you heard that growing up, like, yeah, I asked her.

[B]

I was like, hey, Mom, I know that, like, we never had money for, like, doing a lot of stuff, so I'm just curious how you handled your finances. And she said basically, oh, man, you're gonna love this. So my mom's first husband, the father of my two older siblings, died when my sister was two.

[A]

Wow. I love that.

[B]

So she got Social Security death benefits from that. I'm sorry she didn't have savings.

[A]

Especially because you're crying, you're anxious, you're sad. So I'm sorry for saying this. Oh, no, no, go ahead. But why the does your mom matter right now in this conversation? I don't give a. About how she runs her finances. It's not you.

[B]

What we learn as children with finances.

[A]

You only learned how she ran her finances a week ago.

[B]

But I knew we didn't money. I knew she didn't have savings, so. And that's.

[A]

I'm just saying, shouldn't that encourage you to want to have savings? When I saw foreclosure notices now, When I saw having foreclosure notices when I was grow. Dude, you're 34. When I saw foreclosure notices on my house when I was growing up, that meant when I was 23, starting to finally learn what, like, money is, I was like, oh, I don't want to be that. So I fixed my. By, what, 25, 26? I don't know. Learning to 34. Okay. Okay. This is a firm.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

At a 25% interest rate. You got Amazon, Samsung, Bluetooth headphones. That's what we need to be financing when we're getting our shit together. Yeah, we're really getting our shit together with that.

[B]

Yep. I needed headphones for my hour walks three times a week.

[A]

No, no, your Bluetooth headphones that were more expensive than you could afford. No, I mean. And also, they're a part of you don't need them to go on a walk. You want them for your walk.

[B]

Okay, well, they were part of a bundle with my watch funnel that you couldn't afford.

[A]

Did not need your watch.

[B]

Well, the Samsung One is on 0% interest.

[A]

Okay. It's a minimum payment. You can't afford your minimum payments. You do not need it. You did not need that aura ring that I see around your finger.

[B]

It's actually the Samsung ring and I paid for it with my FSA card.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So that's, that's.

[A]

Well, that is money going from your FSA that could be used on an annual checkup and whatnot.

[B]

Already did. I put 3400 a year.

[A]

It is still your FSA. It is still your money. Just because it's tax advantage doesn't mean it's free money.

[B]

Do you think I should lower my FSA then? Cuz I max it out every year.

[A]

We're not saying that. But you're still spending that money I have on something that you did not need.

[B]

FSA is used it or lose it.

[A]

Could have spent it on GOP's.

[B]

I was going to, but it was not financially but a good idea. Had to use those funds.

[A]

You did not need to get Bluetooth headphones.

[B]

True. So.

[A]

Or the watch.

[B]

I got the watch because I swim twice a week for an hour. And the ring does not track your swimming laps.

[A]

Do you hyper need to track it though? You already know what you're doing. Put it in. Put it in.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Yes, you can track things. You know how most people track their workouts? Well, a lot now on garments and shit. Absolutely, absolutely. But you know what we've done the vast majority of time when since we've had phones, you put in how long you worked out, at what level of resistance or effort. And then it just does like what it thinks your calories is. It's a perfect no. But you're still tracking your workouts. You don't.

[B]

I'm saying you don't need measures that though.

[A]

I know it doesn't. You don't need it.

[B]

I don't know how to measure it without it. How do I measure my heart, heartbeat while I'm swimming?

[A]

No, no, because it's not going to be an exact 100 calorie, but it is going to be in a very good range. Where you Google, if I'm this height, this weight, this age, and I swam at this effort, this pacing for this long, how many calories did I probably lose? Boom. Import it. You're good. I mean, and then you didn't just spend money you couldn't afford. Listen, it's not the worst. It's not the worst. I'm not dying about it. But the thing is. You're trying to justify this. You're trying to justify this. You're trying to justify this. You're trying to justify everything. If we justify everything I'm saying you. Okay, if you got one of them to watch, cool, we'll call it there. You're justifying.

[B]

But it was a bundle.

[A]

You didn't need to get the bundle. My gosh, lady. Okay, your minutes payments are like 100 bucks a month. Pull up your Amazon because you're buying things on Amazon too.

[B]

Hold on. I have to sign in because I deleted it so I couldn't access it and then I downloaded it again for you. So just sec.

[A]

While she's pulling that up, I'll say. On the Merrick bank, we got $956.23 which is maxed out basically minimum payment, $41. Oh, fees. It's an annual, a monthly fee. Okay. Merit with interest. Focus on your Amazon.

[B]

Oh, sorry.

[A]

Four years to pay this off if we do minimum payments only, which is what we do and don't purchase, which I'm sure once there's ability to purchase, we will hundreds at interest as usual. Perfect. Thank you so much. Close. Good. That's good because you're not a credit card person. Okay. We got lots of meal prep containers. I'm not freaking out about that. A little concerned he didn't have them.

[B]

But that's okay if you see they're returned because I spent 120 on them and then I found them on Facebook marketplace for $20,000.

[A]

Pens and aesthetic book. Espresso Classico Colombia.

[B]

That was for my pudding.

[A]

Okay. Leather repair patch tape kit.

[B]

Oh, I got a free office chair for my at home office for work because organic flex seats hybrid. And it's a really nice chair, but it just had a hole in it.

[A]

Whiskers for leather repair kit, braided band watch. I don't need commentary. Thank you. Well, these aren't the worst. Most of them are things like toilet paper tissues. This is okay. This isn't the worst. Lots of all of a sudden chargers and cords that came out of nowhere. That was. We were in an era. And then there's some. We got cases for our Bluetooth, Samsung things. There's the Samsung Galaxy AI smart ring. How much did that cost bundle?

[B]

I think about 350. That was not part of the ring. That was on the FSA Caleb, it's still your money. Use it or lose it. So the only option.

[A]

I know, but you know you have more things to use it on. We've already talked about them.

[B]

But I still have money.

[A]

Oh, hey, good. It's not the worst, but it is a lot of things.

[B]

It is.

[A]

What was the merit card used for before it was closed?

[B]

Merit card was the trip to Hawaii last year in May. Yeah. So we went to Hawaii for a week. We stayed at. At his company's house and we went with six other people, two of which are tech bros who make like 500k a year. And my ex, who's also a tech bro and is at like 250 a year. And so I had to pay for my own food and stuff.

[A]

Oh, that's where I was going. Okay. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

So I opened a credit card so that I would have the funds available.

[A]

Thank God. Glad the city of Seattle and everyone's rents went up endlessly to subsidize their Hawaiian vacation. Well done, Seattle. Maybe I need the mayor of Washington on so I can tell for these policies because at least when I had the governor of Michigan on, they don't have. It's illegal to do rent control policies because it discourages building in their city. And in the cities in Michigan.

[B]

Well, with all the construction I see, I don't think they're not building.

[A]

They're building a lot slower than demand, though. A lot slower than demand. Why do you think the cost of living is so substantially higher there?

[B]

I thought it was just because people make more, but that makes sense.

[A]

They're often correlated though. Yes. People make a ton in San Francisco, Silicon Valley, but they have to. They have to because they have to afford minimum million dollar shacks because they won't build density in Silicon Valley. Crazy.

[B]

And also like nimby's. Right?

[A]

Yes. What do you think Seattle and rent control basically is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You're taking advantage of it. Very good milestone. What's going on with this? Because it's basically maxed out. $910.49.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What I was saying, interest accruing, minimum payment 46, which is what you're doing, takes three years to pay off.

[B]

What I was saying earlier is I have always very much been the kind of person who like makes the payment, then spends what's left, like what you just freed up.

[A]

Yeah. Didn't we already basically firm in capital One? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's still happening. Not I have been. You are.

[B]

That's. Yeah.

[A]

So closing's a good Step cuz I would close cards that you cannot manage. Cuz again, it's the hammer that's swinging back, hitting you in the eye.

[B]

I was trying to pay them down and I was.

[A]

I just kept cling on everything, including your firm.

[B]

As soon as I. I pay them off, I'm planning on it, but it's getting hard to get them paid off and I don't know where my money's going.

[A]

Well, then obviously that's not working.

[B]

Okay, so this is new. I just did this, but my usual money's going. My usual. Is this where I just write down my month? My bi weekly?

[A]

Yeah, I'm sorry your system's not working. Listen. Yeah, you went super girly with it, and it's cute, we love it, but it doesn't work for you, so I don't give a.

[B]

So I don't know what else to do, though.

[A]

We've already discussed it, dude. Use an automated app. Even if it's. You're less inclined to look at it. Set reminders for yourself. They exist for a reason. And why do they cost money? Because every single account you connect automatic costs us money. So it has to cost money. Trust me, the margins are not as great as everyone thinks they are. Most budgeting apps lose money. In fact, we know one of our competitors, Monarch, loses money. At least we have a slight profit margin. Oh, they're pretty big. But.

[B]

Yeah, I kind of have a.

[A]

Plan for a 35.9 interest rate. What's your plan?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So this next one's over maxed? Yep.

[B]

So I'm selling my house.

[A]

Good.

[B]

We'll talk about it later. But it's worth twice what I owe on it.

[A]

I hope so. Where are you getting that information?

[B]

From my Realtor.

[A]

Not good information. Okay.

[B]

And also Zillow, but I know Zillow is.

[A]

That's not great, but at least it aggregates data a little better than a realtor who might just be trying to sell you on it.

[B]

Yeah, okay.

[A]

Okay. Well, that'd be nice. So I'm hoping that's a debt payoff plan, but that's not a sustainable debt payoff plan, because again, that's like bankruptcy or consolidation without changing the behavior in the first place. And I see last month's behavior. Still spending a thousand dollars, which is over a fourth of your income on debt at a minimum, by the way. It's probably closer to a third. We'll see. So would I immediately destroy all the equity you have in your house to build all your debt back up again? I wouldn't necessarily suggest so you can say you're different, but I've seen it on the show every time someone's tried to do that.

[B]

Well, I already closed all of my credit cards and deleted all of the apps off my phone except for the ones that I had to redownload.

[A]

It's a good start. I'm not saying it's a bad step.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

If you don't change your behavior for proven three months before you do this stuff then I wouldn't do it because it needs to be sustainable. Exactly. It needs to be sustainable. Everyone can delete doordash from their phone. I need to see what it looks like over the course of a few months before you jump the guy back.

[B]

On the follow up show. And please do that.

[A]

So why are you over the limit on this second milestone card?

[B]

Late fees. Because I didn't realize. I didn't realize it was due earlier than my other cards. But also, also I found out recently.

[A]

You'Re talking about auto pay because I.

[B]

Don'T have the extra money chilling in my account.

[A]

Yeah, you spend a thousand on bullshit. I know you say you, you have some reasonable talk throughout this conversation. You look at your decisions you're doing right now. This makes no sense. Yeah, like I don't like you. You say some reasonable talk to not get pushback and I appreciate that but like what the. Look what you're actually doing. That makes no sense. Oh, I didn't have 45 off 107. Well no, it's cuz you're late.

[B]

Yeah, also yeah, the late fees over the last couple of months are on purpose. They're on purpose. This because since they're closed, I did the thing where I called them and asked them if they could lower the interest so I could get it paid off.

[A]

Huh. Except that's the late fees for the past few months. I've had a late fee almost every month this year.

[B]

So that one, they lowered it to zero percent interest because it has been late so many times. My other two cards with that same.

[A]

Company, I was delayed so many times. I understand. The past couple months it's been all year.

[B]

It took.

[A]

It was all year.

[B]

I had it set up to come out on my second paycheck of the month not realizing that it was due all year. Yeah, I just realized it a couple months ago.

[A]

So it's like looking at stoplights. Is this incapable?

[B]

Sure, if that's what you want to say, Caleb.

[A]

Well, I mean it's been all year. You weren't seeing anything happen. You're writing it all down in your fancy little books.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which obviously doesn't work.

[B]

The fancy little book is just writing down what is due during that paycheck and then I go in and make those payments.

[A]

You don't check if you ever make the payments on time.

[B]

I wasn't at the time also. So that one is now 0% so I can pay it off. But the other two are not eligible for the 0% because they've never had a late fee. So for the next three months, those will be late because I would rather have the zero percent interest.

[A]

How late though?

[B]

It just less than 30 days because.

[A]

It could hit as a miss on your credit.

[B]

No, no. Yeah. It'll only be like they send me a notice saying it's late, I go in and pay it. Absolutely not wanting it to hit my credit.

[A]

I hope so, based on how you manage things, if you actually manage that appropriately. Very curious. I feel like you're paying with flyer.

[B]

Really, really hard over the last several years to get my credit where it is.

[A]

So where's your card?

[B]

I don't want anything to hit it. It's not great, but it's 622. Pulled up from like 520. I'm trying, Caleb. I'm trying.

[A]

$618.51 on this Destiny card. Almost maxed out again. 21 minutes to pay off. Two years basically. $43 minimum to payment. What's going on with this card?

[B]

Originally open for Hawaii and not just by two cards. Oh, four.

[A]

Great. Multiple late fees this year.

[B]

Clothes and stuff like that.

[A]

36% interest rate.

[B]

Yeah, it's insane. Concord, the company who owns those three cards, it's kind of like, I don't know, just crazy interest rates that I never thought were even possible.

[A]

Credit 1.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

The worst of the worst. What is going on with this?

[B]

So that one, I actually closed it several months ago.

[A]

Okay, you've closed them all?

[B]

I don't know. They sent me a notice asking if I wanted to reactivate it and I want your money. I felt like I was doing better at the time.

[A]

And see, this is the concern with all the good talks she's had with the good talk, like, I'm gonna. I'm fixing, I'm fixing, I'm fixing. She just did this. This. She thought she fixed it like a month ago. Then she reopened and said, dude, no, you can't do this. You can't give me all that good talk, that good self talk when you literally just proved a month ago that it didn't work.

[B]

I know. That's why I reclosed it.

[A]

Caleb, you asked for it and I'm delivering a way to connect the dots to see how the stuff we talk about applies to you, your money, your debt and your goals. The wait is over because Master your money My all in one personal finance platform is finally live inside. You'll get access to all of my courses, budgeting templates, calculators, a community of like minded budgeters, exclusive content, weekly tips and free access to the Dollarwise premium budgeting app. Learn everything from budgeting to investing to in weekly for behind the budget a master your money exclusive and join members monthly challenges to celebrate your wins. And since it's Black Friday I'm giving you access to our members exclusive audits, financial audit post shows and more insider content in our newly upgraded Hammer Elite 3.0 membership, I've wrapped it all into what I'm calling the ultimate Hammer Bundle. Sign up for Master your money today and get lifetime pricing. It's just $39.99 a month, over $100 in annual savings and access to the dollar wise budgeting app premium version one month of Hammer Elite 3.0 for free. Plus a free budget friendly cookbook that you can download. This insane offer ends after Black Friday so if you want to master your money, click below and get started today. Guys, just real quick, don't forget to take your Hammer financial [e-mail] see where you stand, where you got to do better, where you're doing shit. Listen, it just takes a few minutes and it is free. Figure out where you stand in the World of Money Caleb hammer.com yeah, I'm glad you did, but I'm talking about how you immediately thought you did better. It's like a month. So you reopened it then you said now you're going to sell. Your house goes, oh, we fix it, we're fixing it, I'm going to pay it off and it's all going to be good. No, you just proved you can't do that.

[B]

No, that's why I have a plan in place and I'm not ever going to be a credit card person. No matter. Okay, so I have co workers. I have a co worker who I told him I closed my credit card and he looked at me, he said how are you gonna pay for anything?

[A]

I don't give a about your co worker.

[B]

And multiple people have said that to me.

[A]

I don't care, I don't care about them debit card.

[B]

I'm just saying this is like the Seattle attitude. So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text, but which u do you listen to? Is it. We could buy a house in Tulum.

[A]

Get optioning those options.

[B]

We could lose everything. Or let's do a little research. Get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you. Learn [e-mail] TradeSmart Guys, it's the Seattle attitude.

[A]

You gotta have credit cards. No one else thinks that you're weird. You. Why do you think that only happens in Seattle? East side? Making friends in adulthood after school. Using credit cards to buy things. Only in Seattle.

[B]

No. Maybe it's a Missouri.

[A]

No, it's not. It's an everywhere thing. Everywhere has all of those things I.

[B]

Had never heard before. People only spending on their credit cards and then paying with their checking accounts. That's not something that I knew existed. Like, they don't use debit cards at all. Who does that? Do. Do you do that?

[A]

Yes, of course.

[B]

We live very different lives.

[A]

Yeah, you're.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I'm not. We do. I fixed it.

[B]

I'm trying to fix it.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Will do. Maybe.

[A]

Well, I hope you do. Of course. But like this, the way you talk about things is concerning me. I'm trying to be with your. Exactly. And optimism is okay, but blind optimism is not because you're kind of setting your. You know what you're doing. You're taking the W before it's happened.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There is there. There was some report or study done on. We've already talked about weight. So like, essentially it's been like you go up to someone after you've dieted from work. You're like, I'm on a diet. And you already get that win that you would have felt if you actually actively died and worked out for a few months and someone said, wow, you're starting to look good. You immediately get that win even though you've done nothing. You're getting the win of saying, I'm going to work on it. It's going to get better. Instead of actually putting in and getting the results.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So that's why you're doing all this selft talk and all this positive talk and all this. Listen, optimism's okay. I'm not saying don't be optimistic. But you're already accepting the win before you've even done anything. Because we see here. And it's only an L. And your actual behavior and spending that you've done and are doing at this exact moment are only an L. Yeah. Not a win.

[B]

So I think that my mindset has changed a lot. Cool.

[A]

Mindset, not behavior. So I don't care because I'm sorry. I'm not gonna hand a win to it. I'm not. Just for the sake of being a nice.

[B]

I don't want the win.

[A]

Then I don't care what you're saying. Okay, I'm sorry about that. Like, just because you're crying too and I'm sorry. Like, I am not going to just sit here and treat you different. Right? I'm not going to. I'm not going to. Because your mindset has changed. Excuse the behavior not changing. No, like, I'm not.

[B]

I'm not trying to excuse. I'm just trying to explain.

[A]

But the information is a cope.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

It is a preemptive victory, a preemptive victory lap that has not been earned.

[B]

Okay, so do you do it.

[A]

Come on the follow up channel. Follow them on the follow up channel. I don't give you all the high fives in the world.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

I'm not telling you what you're supposed to do, but I will tell you what you shouldn't do and what you are doing throughout a lot of this conversation and we've honestly probably caught some of it because it's been absolutely obnoxious. Is. You're, you're, you're. What are you crying about?

[B]

I'm. It's just reverberations from earlier.

[A]

It's.

[B]

I'm not upset.

[A]

Okay. I feel like you're.

[B]

It's just anxiety.

[A]

No, I get it. I. As an anxious person, I get it. I really do. I understand. Every single time I say, hey, this is bad, you're like, well, I, you know, I'm 100% changed and I'm changing, I'm going to change it and everything's changed. It's not. And I'm not allowing you to take that victory lap because it won't result in anything because you know what you in your brain wants from that and what you're hoping for is a high five. Walk out the door. Like that's what you're instinctively wanting. You're wanting the positive benefit that comes before the change has been actually provided that provides the hands like the high five. Come on the follow up show. Show that you've done it in the behavior and I will give you a high five. You can't come on here, say, I'm changing, it's going to change and everything's great. Well, everything on paper is completely. And expect a high Five. That is not going to happen and I'm not going to allow it it. And it's. That's a bad way to live because that means you will never actually go and do the work to get the reward of actually feeling good because you're already feeling good, telling yourself you're going to do it. Okay, so minimum monthly payment here is $59.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Interest fees. Yeah. You only paid 30 towards it. Oh, is it credit line 30 and a late fee. Well, which was taken off because you. A late fee. So it is usually 30 taken off that time. We've had fees this year like crazy Interest this year like crazy over the credit limit if I'm not mistaken. Great. Okay. Capital One, Quicksilver. What's going on?

[B]

So that was a Walmart card that was transferred over to Quicksilver. So only ever used on groceries. I have since closed it because I would make the payment and then go to groceries and supplies.

[A]

Transactions. I'm having a transaction right here at Walmart. It just happened. I'm glad you did everything like the day before you came on the show. Like I'm sorry, this is what you just did. You just purchased at Walmart. Interest accruing.

[B]

What's the rate on that one?

[A]

30.99. IRS.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What?

[B]

They say that I didn't file in 2018, but I've never not filed.

[A]

Not correctly. Clearly.

[B]

Yeah. So it's that.

[A]

Is it ever your fault?

[B]

I mean it's my fault that I didn't file. For sure it was. I'm just saying that I didn't realize that I was a 180.

[A]

Okay, sure.

[B]

I'm not trying to say that any of this isn't my fault or it's.

[A]

Well, you just said. But I file every year, so.

[B]

No, I said I, I have filed every year. I didn't know that I didn't file. Okay. 2019 was.

[A]

It's only 558. You spent more on bullshit last month. You could have killed this. Yeah, but I thought you fixed it. I thought you fixed everything.

[B]

Well, whenever I do my weekly like my bi weekly budgets, it doesn't feel like I have the money to do that.

[A]

Because you spend it all on. Does your bi weekly budget tell you that?

[B]

No, it just tells me I have like 200 left over after my fixed costs.

[A]

I don't think your cute little pamphlet is working.

[B]

Then you might be right. But I, I want to change that and I want to do better.

[A]

There it is. Well, which I appreciate it. I want you to as well. That does not excuse that this just happened because that's what every single guest will say on repeat when they can't handle pushback. I know what you want. Congratulations. You like what? Okay, a question from me. Yeah, sincere. What do you want from me? When I tell you this is bad, what you did was bad. And then you say, well, I want to change it and do better. Yeah. Do you want a hug?

[B]

No.

[A]

Because the reality is cool. I'm glad you want it. You're doing nothing to fix it. So I'm not just going to accept the fact that you want it and it's okay. Well, I tried like you. You handle every piece of pushback with why I'm going to change it. I'm doing better. No, you're not.

[B]

I tried to set up a payment plan for it, but it doesn't give me the option.

[A]

You don't dude you more than this a last month, you just kill it. I know.

[B]

I didn't realize that I spent that much until I crunched the numbers when I was sending you guys the statements.

[A]

And it's a late penalty. Wait, another irs?

[B]

All of that?

[A]

Is this a separate irs?

[B]

Yeah, that's for this year. It's just what I owe for this year.

[A]

Good. Dude, what are we doing? Please don't tell. Why? Is there a third irs?

[B]

No, that's the same one.

[A]

Oh, Mount Pass through. You're passed on your minimum.

[B]

No, that's just the amount that I owe from 2024. 5366.

[A]

Why do I have $555.22?

[B]

That's the 2018 one.

[A]

No, I have 558 and 555. I have two separate balances.

[B]

No, there's only one.

[A]

Literally from last year. You owe $53 and you haven't paid that well.

[B]

No, not yet. I'm going to. She's going to.

[A]

Okay, so she's excused. Everyone. She won financial audit. She won. She gets rid of. There's no pushback required. What? I'm. How can after we just had that conversation you've had all year. It's the 11th month tomorrow.

[B]

What?

[A]

I'm going to. You.

[B]

Yeah, it's out of sight now.

[A]

An answer I will ever allow on this show in the history of the world, especially from you at this point. You're a repeat record. I'm going to. You should have yesterday, this morning, right now.

[B]

Should have, could have. That's hindsight 4040.

[A]

But you are not getting out of this conversation from. I'm going to. You've had all year.

[B]

Yeah. No, I'm totally fine with you.

[A]

You gave me a.

[B]

What do you want me to say, Caleb?

[A]

I'd rather you shut up than not say that. Okay, good. I'm going to. No, maybe you can tell me why you didn't, but don't give me a cope. I'm going to. When everything here suggests no, the you won't like. I will not accept it as an answer. You can tell me the why behind something, but don't give me the cope. I want to change. I'm going to change. I am changing. When?

[B]

No, at the time, I didn't have the money on me.

[A]

55.

[B]

And then I forgot about it. Out of sight, out of mind. Until I pulled the statements. I forgot that it was there. They don't send you a monthly statement.

[A]

No. But they will garnish your wages. I don't even know, man.

[B]

And I will be the one to process that.

[A]

Garnish your attitude on all this stuff and the way you view the world is like. It's. It's just unhealthy. I. I need. I. I might need you to change your worldview before you change your budget. How you interact with all this. I know you're trying to be positive for the sake of positivity. That's all good. And well, if it's resulting in harm, which it is, then I don't give a.

[B]

So I have kind of changed my worldview over the last eight years.

[A]

Wait, did you just hit me with a. I just changed again?

[B]

No, no. Let me explain. When I first started getting credit cards in 2012, I had in my head that it was. I was never going to pay it off, so it didn't matter if it was maxed out.

[A]

It's all maxed out today.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Tell me how that has changed in two years.

[B]

How that has changed.

[A]

You said you changed your philosophy in two years about credit cards.

[B]

So.

[A]

And you said back then, you'll never pay them off. They'll always be maxed out. Two years later, they're maxed out.

[B]

Yeah. So I used to just treat them like a utility payment, just a monthly payment that I had. And now when I.

[A]

You're only making your monthly payments right now.

[B]

I know. I'm not saying that it's good, Caleb. I'm not.

[A]

No, you're not. I'm just saying. I'm not saying you're saying that. But you're saying you changed in two years. No.

[B]

Yeah. I started watching your show and I'm like, oh, shit. No, yeah, you're right. I need to take care of.

[A]

And then you did nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, great. I know. I'm glad we went down the story.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You didn't do anything. Gosh, I feel like I'm being mean, but you're just. You're giving me insanity to work with. Like that was crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come on. Like, I don't want to just bully you, but what the was that?

[B]

It's multiple changes of worldviews and I need to change that or multiple personalities.

[A]

I can't tell.

[B]

I mean, I am a Gemini 400. So.

[A]

Off $2,468.04 owed on this Chevy EV Volt. What's your minimum monthly?

[B]

So technically the minimum monthly is 280. But I pay 250.

[A]

You pay less.

[B]

Yes. So this car was purchased in conjunction with my ex last sends in April.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he only accepts zero percent from me. And he just pays the payment. So he.

[A]

He only accepts 0% from you.

[B]

So I.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

I offered to pay the full payment and he was like, no, you're not going to pay the interest on this. Just pay me 250amonth. And he's just been slamming down.

[A]

So this is his car.

[B]

It's in both of our names.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

But I actually owe 10,750 on it. That amount is how much he's paid off. And then once it's paid off, he's going to transfer it into my name.

[A]

What? In death.

[B]

I mean, I didn't buy a brand new car when I needed a new car, Caleb. I went and got a used car and I got a good deal on it.

[A]

Oh my gosh. She just wants high fives. I swear, this entire conversation, you literally just want high fives. Is it cause you're a fan of the show? I'm sorry. That's not how I'm gonna treat like. I'm never gonna treat someone like that. I'm not gonna treat you bad to treat you bad. But I'm also not just cause you're like the show. I'm. Don't. Don't come on here. Calebhammer.com apply. If you're looking just for hugs and kisses from me. I'm sorry.

[B]

No, thank you.

[A]

What? Have you listened to yourself this conversation?

[B]

No, I'm. Do we have to say about that?

[A]

Sorry, you don't have to answer. Do we have the value of this car? Vin's not found. Well.

[B]

Well, the last time I looked on KBB, it was 16,000. When was the last time three months ago.

[A]

Okay. Equity position. Okay. What's the interest rate on this? I know you don't pay the interest.

[B]

Difference, but I think it was 10%. And he ended up being the signer on it because the.

[A]

You said you cosigned. I thought. Yeah.

[B]

So he's the main person and I'm the co signer.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because with my credit, it was going to be 18%.

[A]

Now, you want to sell this house to rapidly pay off your debt, but the thing is, you're locked in at a 3.12% interest rate. That's incredible. At a $65,939 balance with a minimum depayment of 622 57. Now. Now, that minimum to payment is hard to stack in with everything else you have, even though it's low for a house. So I do get. Actually wanting to get that off your books, even though your friend pays for it, which helps. But. What were you gonna say?

[B]

It's just a pain in my rear end.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Tired of dealing with it. It's. I just had to spend another 6,000 last week in plumbing issues.

[A]

Yes, that is. See, again. So I'm just over the home ownership thing.

[B]

Even if I wasn't gonna be making 50,000 off of it, then I would still want to get rid of it because I'm. It was my backup plan when I moved to Seattle, and I've been out on my own three years now. Successfully. Well, semi successfully. And I just don't feel like I need it anymore. And it's annoying.

[A]

It's worth $11,222, by the way.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The car, little equity position, about a thousand bucks. And that is kpp.

[B]

I'm glad you found it.

[A]

We found it. Total debt balance. Of what? Of what even is this? I don't even know what this is.

[B]

That's a Perkins loan. They're directly from the university instead of through the government. And it was for a study abroad trip.

[A]

Where'd you go?

[B]

England. Great.

[A]

What a world of difference.

[B]

Yeah, we were going to. We were studying Anglo Saxon literature, so.

[A]

Oh, that really translates to the job market. Okay. What is the minimum fee payment on that one?

[B]

That one's in default, so none right now. I didn't realize that it wasn't a part of the bundles of my other student loans. And by the time I did talk about it.

[A]

It's a private loan.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't understand.

[A]

It won't get garnished unless you gave them your information you could talk to. Why refi. They're one of our people. They help renegotiate your private loans once they've gone into default. So I check them.

[B]

I didn't realize it was private.

[A]

I assume it's from an institution. I would look into it. Take a look.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's okay.

[A]

What do you owe in federal student loans without this?

[B]

2,500.

[A]

Federal student loan. 55,000. $55,349.13. For what? What was your degree?

[B]

Bachelor's in English literature.

[A]

Oh, good death. What are we doing?

[B]

I mean my company really appreciates that I have it because I write a lot of our HR related marketing stuff and like token GPT employee facing documents.

[A]

Okay. $259 and 28 cent minimum three payment.

[B]

Which hurts a lot and it just.

[A]

Dude, it's probably half of what your standard 10 year payment would be. So enjoy it while you got it.

[B]

It just went into effect and nothing.

[A]

In that checking account savings $2.55. Okay. Okay. Capital one model pay debit 230 and that's going in and getting some. Okay. What are you stopping at the market and getting for? 3.74 constantly.

[B]

That's the cafeteria at my work. It's monster zero.

[A]

Oh my lovely lady. Try this.

[B]

I just ordered the sampler pack.

[A]

Yes, the free samples.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is for free. Type in code Hammer. Here, take this one though. It is really good. No more vending machine monster. Make it. I'm sure there's one that tastes like a monster. They have so many different flavors. 25 cents a serving. Instead of stopping in and getting that bullshit. And also 10 off of that alone. Once you order the flavors you want, link in the description below. Gamer Subs GG but yes, energy drinks at home. Make them all work. Shaky, shaky, shaky. Yeah, that is very good.

[B]

This is for really.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because. Okay. Monster, Monster. Taco Bell. Taco Bell. Klarna.

[B]

So can I explain that? Taco Bell. So when I. When I first started the health journey, I was trying to do intermittent fasting and I swam for an hour after work. So I didn't. So basically by the time I got home with traffic, I was going to be outside of my intermittent window. And so I stopped and got power bowls at Taco Bell and naked nuggets from Chick Fil A because they were the healthiest options I could.

[A]

At the same time.

[B]

No, no, there's.

[A]

I'm can't speak for the power bowl at Taco Bell. I mean wouldn't like Chipotle or something be better?

[B]

More Expensive.

[A]

I don't know. What's. Can Taco Bell really be healthy? I don't know.

[B]

The rice and beans.

[A]

Okay. Klarna. Monster Energy Drink. Domino's. I know. They don't got a power.

[B]

That's just a crave. That was a crave. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Alaska in air flight also sounds like a crave.

[B]

That was the winning.

[A]

Got some. Electrify America. Amazon.

[B]

Affirm.

[A]

Affirm. Taco Bell. Taco Bell. Steam purchase. Amazon.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

Laundry. Laundry is okay. I'm okay with that. Amazon Prime. Netflix. Coca Cola. Vending machine. Charging. Charging.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You got the ev.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't charge at home.

[B]

Like, I live in an apartment.

[A]

They don't have charging.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, then I wouldn't have gotten an ev. Selling out money. Grandsboro Market. Taco Bell, Amazon. Yeah. Monster Energy Drink. Monster Energy Drink. Monster energy drink. 60.

[B]

Okay, that was BS Shake Shack.

[A]

They do not have a Power Bowl. Nutty Squirrel. No Power.

[B]

No. But they have a no bun hamburger.

[A]

That is the greasiest patty.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As a Shake Shack fanatic, it was.

[B]

A team launch with the finance department.

[A]

It is the greasiest patty. I will say. Well, they also have a grilled chicken sandwich.

[B]

You're right. You're right.

[A]

Yeah, I am.

[B]

That would have been a better choice.

[A]

Tap. Like a bar. Nothing. Bundt cake. Don't have a Power bowl there. Crunchyroll. Energy drink. Taco Bell. Electrify America. Again. Okay. What's Electrify America?

[B]

Charging My car.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Affirm, affirm, affirm. Shabirina. Shabirina.

[B]

Typically, my boyfriend pays for it, but.

[A]

Vending machine.

[B]

The dessert.

[A]

Laundry's okay. Energy drink. Department of Transportation. Chick Fil. A. Energy drink. Energy drink. Parking. Bar. Bar. Dairy Queen. They don't got a comparable there either. Good to go online.

[B]

Good to go.

[A]

PlayStation Network.

[B]

Oh. Good to go. As a toll for the bridge across to Seattle.

[A]

Warner Media. So that's probably HBO, right?

[B]

It was. Yeah.

[A]

Steam purchase. McDonald's. Wow. Okay. That's an insane amount of spending. And a checking account. And then in this one, that started 300 or. Yeah, started. I think that's rent. And a withdrawal was rejected because you didn't have enough money.

[B]

Yeah, that was when the student loan took out the credit card.

[A]

It was rejected twice.

[B]

Yeah, but you'll see that there was a payment of three something.

[A]

I bet it was 5,900. Okay. Dramatically behind for our age. I'm dramatic, dude. I know.

[B]

I am freaking out about it.

[A]

You should be.

[B]

But I can't afford to put 23,000 in a year?

[A]

Well, no, because you spend a thousand hours a month on bullshit. You're right.

[B]

But even a thousand would just be 12,000. So I'm like, 12,000.

[A]

Retirement. Oh, no, that would definitely suck.

[B]

Well, it wouldn't catch me up.

[A]

Okay. It would be something you. My gosh, what is wrong with you? Okay. Minimum payments, not including the mortgage. And we're not including the mortgage in here anyway. Because your friend takes care of you. Even though you do have expenses that pop up because you're an owner of an home, which. Yeah, I would get out of it if I was you as well. $734.33. Okay, now, utilities, gas, electric, Internet, all combined. How much?

[B]

Yep. No, Gas, electric and Internet is 160.

[A]

Okay, very good.

[B]

Phone bill, $100.

[A]

Okay. Gas. Vroom, vroom. Drive. Drive.

[B]

I spend 160amonth. Charging.

[A]

Yeah. And then tolls. How much?

[B]

I am not doing tolls anymore. I'm just driving.

[A]

Okay. Necessary food, $300. Meal prepping. Meal prepping, meal prepping. TP fund, anything else you need. And it's 100 bucks. Medical, healthcare, co pays, anything like that?

[B]

FSA.

[A]

Very good. Is there a gym?

[B]

No, because I wanted to give myself.

[A]

What about the pool? How much for that?

[B]

It's free. My cousin works for a hotel.

[A]

Subscriptions? Let's do 40 bucks. You have any pets?

[B]

No subscriptions, Please. I already canceled them off.

[A]

Okay. Not in there, but okay. Pet insurance?

[B]

No, he's too old.

[A]

Okay. How much for pet food?

[B]

It's 16 every three months.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

16?

[A]

What is the. The creature?

[B]

He's a Pomeranian mix. He goes, he buys, he goes. I buy a eight pound bag.

[A]

I'll say six bucks a month. Anything else that needs to be in your budget that I have not taken into account?

[B]

My car insurance?

[A]

Oh, yes, please. How much?

[B]

350. Okay. And I think that's it.

[A]

You have $1,889 left over. And. Yeah. We're subsidizing you. That's great. Okay. You get rid of the mortgage. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Get rid of the. If you can prove. If you can prove that you can follow a budget for two months, I will allow you to take the money from selling a house and pay off all your debt and then you start contributing. Get a fully funded emergency fund and then start catching up on retirement. Because he gotta. Yeah, that's pretty much the answer to the question. Okay, that's pretty much it. I'll get you a course, career certification. If you ever Want that by the way, to improve. Like let's get you an accounting one. Maybe you can get an accounting, make some more money. So I'll get you that for free. We got some interesting things to talk about in the post show, but I'm gonna get the Hammer Financial score first. Okay. Spending a budget. Overspend. 0 out of 10. Debt IRS 0. 10. Emergency fund. Nothing.

[B]

Right, nothing.

[A]

0 out of 10. What was the retirement? 7,000? 8,000?

[B]

5?

[A]

6. Yeah, 6,000 dramatically behind. It's about a 2 out of 10. Real estate. That is okay. Don't like that. You don't live in it. It's okay. But it's an actually pretty okay house. Great interest rate. 7 out of 10. I would have a primary residence first, but. Oh, and it actually lined up almost exactly correct. So it looks like it did work. It tip two out of ten. Hammer financial score. Get yours@caleb hammer.com now click that join button and join us for the post show. There's a lot of things to talk about. She owes. Oh, the person that's rented her house she owes money to. Okay, we'll talk about that at the post show. Click the join button now. An extra 20 minutes of every single episode in the Financial Auto post show, including three premium shows posted every single day, Monday through Friday. Join Hammer Elite now. I will see you in the post show. You owe your tenant money. What does that even mean?

[B]

When she came to Seattle last fall to see me, I told her that I would pay her expenses while she was here.

[A]

You can't even afford to take care of yourself.

[B]

I wanted her to live in Seattle. Life.

[A]

Well, the city of Seattle is paying of her flight. Hammer Elite is the best YouTube membership on the platform and I just upgraded it. New dedicated premium shows every single day, Monday through Friday. Join with the link in the pinned comment or description below. This is the best membership you'll ever join. And that's a promise. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it. Guaranteed or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with Lifelock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply.