Financial Audit’s Biggest Gold Digger

Summary

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Financial Audit Podcast: “Financial Audit’s Biggest Gold Digger”

Host: Caleb Hammer
Guests: Elle (31) & Paul (38) from San Antonio
Date: June 9, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Financial Audit, host Caleb Hammer sits down with Elle and Paul, a married couple who, despite a strong household income of nearly $12,000/month, are teetering on a financial cliff due to habits of overspending, debt accrual, and lifestyle misalignment with their means. The episode serves as a real-time intervention—revealing the disconnect between high income and financial health, and delving into the psychology, communication patterns, and practicalities behind their persistent debt cycle. Caleb offers hard truths, actionable budgeting strategies, and direct confrontation about sacrifice and priorities, all peppered with the show’s signature candor and engagement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background and Income Snapshot

• Elle: Recent college grad in biology, Navy veteran, mother of two, planning for graduate studies. Receives VA disability with dependents.
• Paul: Navy police officer, retiring within a year, expecting disability income post-retirement.
• Household Income:
  • Paul: ~$7,200/month (two $3,600 paychecks)
  • Elle: ~$4,750/month VA disability
  • Total: ~$11,900–$12,000/month

Caleb: “When you just get to go to school and have this income... Why are we struggling so much? What the possible is happening?” (05:11)

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2. History of Debt and Prior Attempts to Get Out

• Patterns: Repeated cycles of accumulating and “paying off” debt, largely via consolidation or home equity loans, but never changing underlying behaviors.
• Previous Methods: Dave Ramsey’s snowball approach; home equity consolidation (2023).

Paul: “Over the last 10 years... we’ve come out of [debt] twice, paid off everything... and then racked up a lot more debt.” (09:03)

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3. Where Is the Money Going?

• Misc. (“BS”) Spending:
  • $4,137/month on random, unnecessary stuff—exclusive of fast food and dining out.
• Dining/Takeout:
  • As much as $1,200/month
• Kids' Activities/Experiences:
  • Gymnastics, baseball, gym equipment, birthday parties—spending justified as “memories” but often excessive.
• Hobbies & Fun Money:
  • Elle focuses on children’s clothes, gifting, and home items; Paul collects (movies, board games), convention tickets, gadgets.
• Out-of-Control Amazon Spending:
  • “Go buy anything BS. Amazon” — small items accumulate rapidly with little friction or scrutiny.

Caleb: “You’re losing $2,000 a year just in interest on two cards...” (59:55)
Caleb: “Spending $7k-8k a month on BS when we could have fully… The amount of money we could have put towards debt was crazy.” (98:37)

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4. Denial, Communication Issues, & Rationalizations

• Elle and Paul both acknowledge issues, but differ wildly in perception and urgency. Elle minimizes ("it's still stable"), while Paul wants to draw the line.
• Communication around purchases and budgeting is virtually nonexistent:
  • Purchases over $100 no longer discussed.
  • “We talk after the purchases usually, but…” (18:38)
• Rationalizations include:
  • Creating memories for kids
  • Inflation (“doesn’t feel like we have more”)
  • Justifying purchases as “fixable,” not “easy,” repeatedly

Elle: “It’s not financially smart, but it is stable as long as you can make payments.” (34:11)
Caleb (challenging): “It is not stable if our debt is just building, building, building, because the dam breaks.” (34:15)
Paul: “I don’t want the kids to only see stress between mom and dad… you are going to put them in a horrible situation.” (21:54)

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5. Hard Numbers: Debt Breakdown & Minimum Payments

• Credit Cards: Over $44,000—minimum payment routines; $24,600+ maxed on one card alone; over $3,000/month total minimums
• Home Equity Loan (Consolidation 2023): $38,309 at 7.45%
• Car Loans: Two expensive new vehicles (truck and Ford Escape), high payments ($1,229 for truck, $606 for escape)
• Other Loans: Furniture, medical, emergency AC repair—all on 0% or low interest, but principles are growing
• Mortgage: $213,000 at a very favorable 2.75% rate

Caleb: “If you make just the minimum payments on [this card], it’ll take you 32 years to pay off. Last Christmas takes 32 years to pay off.” (47:03)

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6. Interest and Opportunity Costs

• Year-to-date interest on various debts already over $5,700 and climbing.
• Home equity, truck, credit card and other loan interests swallow massive cash that could fund family dreams.
• Discussed lost opportunity: $6,000/year currently spent on “fun money” could have provided $25,000–$50,000 college funds for each child by now.

Caleb: "This year so far, $5,752.48 has been taken from your hands in just interest... sounds like a pretty good chunk of a Disney trip if I've ever heard." (92:24)

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7. Budgeting Attempts and Behavioral Obstacles

• Use of Excel spreadsheets for bills fell apart; resistance to automated tools; fail to stick with manual solutions.
• Fun money allocation ($200–$400/month planned, but actual BS spending up to $8,000/month).
• Both describe themselves as “spenders,” unable to resist frictionless spending (ESPECIALLY Amazon).

Caleb: “You said about half [was BS]. No, about 75%: Panda Express, Krispy Kreme, Auntie Anne's… just bad, entertainment, more board games...” (54:12)
Paul: “We just say 'I.' Everything's on auto pay and it comes out of our debit. Bills are on auto pay.” (32:47)

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8. Clash of Values and Reluctance on Sacrifice

• Elle resists the “sacrifice” of things like streaming services, elaborate holidays, and expensive kids’ activities.
• Paul admits to milking his surgery for extra home purchases; values comfort/fun sometimes over math.
• Caleb underlines the necessity of actual deprivation—cutting out all fun spending that's not required for survival—until debts are paid and an emergency fund is built.

Caleb: “If you can fit them in the TP fund, you can. But if you can’t, they’re canceled... You are, I mean, that’s a spoiled mentality.” (108:13)
Elle: “But it also has to be livable.” (108:36)

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9. Action Plan & Path Forward

• Step 1: Downsize both vehicles, sell and replace to immediately cut $25,000+ in debt, slash minimum payments.
• Step 2: Implement zero-tolerance budgeting; every dollar tracked (recommendation: use budgeting app with account connections).
• Step 3: Snowball approach on remaining debts, using freed-up cash from car/BS spending.
• Step 4: No new consolidation until six months of changed behavior and aggressive debt payoff are PROVEN.
• Step 5: Build emergency fund (at least $30,000; six months' expenses).
• Step 6: Only after all debt (but mortgage) and emergency fund are in place, resume fun spending, trips, holidays.

Caleb: “If you do [these steps], in five years, bad debt free… you have no idea what life is like on that other side… you guys will literally have $5,000 a month at a minimum to blow on whatever you want if you really want to..." (112:02)

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10. Memorable Quotes & Turning Points

• On their flawed logic:

  • Caleb: “How is that considered financially stable if we’re spending 14k and making 12k...?” (34:11)
  • Elle: “It’s not financially smart, but it is stable as long as you can make payments.” (34:13)

• On their children and priorities:

  • Paul: “You are going to put [the kids] in a horrible situation…because mom and dad are finally going to have the conversation about money... blow up.” (21:54)
  • Caleb: “Kids don’t recognize the value dollar…they want the experience, the warmth of Christmas.” (45:06)

• On self-awareness and making changes:

  • Caleb: “If it’s fixable, why haven’t we fixed it? …Last time, to get out of debt we had to take equity from our home. If it’s so easy, then why are we here?” (71:32)
  • Paul: “We did not change our life at that moment when we paid it all off. It was nice, it was great, but we did not change any of our lifestyle…” (61:53)

• On the hard reality:

  • Caleb: “Your truck payment is as much as your mortgage. That is the most American thing I’ve ever seen, and that is not a good thing.” (103:22)

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Notable Timestamps

• 05:24: Caleb exposes the disconnect between their strong income and financial distress.
• 09:03, 09:14: The couple discuss their repeated cycles of paying off and rebuilding debt.
• 11:26 & 16:45: Discussion of spending habits, lack of budget, and avoidance of financial confrontation.
• 25:30–27:50: Breakdown of the maxed-out $24,600 credit card; justification of recent spending (son’s birthday).
• 34:11–34:26: The “it’s not smart, but it’s stable” rationalization challenged, with the dam analogy.
• 47:03: Caleb calculates “32 years to pay off” last Christmas if only minimum payments are made.
• 57:53: Hard comparison: “We can choose lazy or financial security.”
• 92:24: Total interest paid just this year: $5,752.48.
• 103:22–104:09: Shock at the truck payment equaling the mortgage; broader warning on minimum debt payments.
• 110:20–113:10: Caleb provides a concrete, stepwise plan for debt freedom (downsize cars, snowball debts, emergency fund, restricted spending).

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Final Financial Scores (by Caleb)

• Spending/Budgeting: 0/10
• Debt Management: 2/10
• Emergency Fund: 1/10
• Retirement Prep: 7/10 (military pension, TSP, VA disability)
• Real Estate: 6/10 (good rate, but home equity loan drags it down)
• Overall Hammer Financial Score: 3.5/10

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Recap & Takeaways

• Diagnosis: High, stable income is masked by destructive spending habits, poor communication, and a refusal to face or adjust for hard realities—especially around debt and emergencies.
• Prescription: Severe restriction of spending to survival essentials, liquidation/downsizing of vehicles, hard budgeting, and a zero-tolerance approach to debt accrual.
• Outlook: If both fully commit, within five years they can be debt-free except mortgage, have a robust emergency fund, and enjoy guilt-free spending/family trips.
• Hard Truth: “Sacrifice is non-negotiable. Until the behaviors change and the financial house is stable, there’s no room for luxury.”

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Memorable Closing Moment

Elle (half-joking): “I did just recently buy 7 LA Dodger NBC New York Yankee baseball caps and I didn’t want to tell you.”
Paul: “You don’t need all seven!”
Caleb: “You’re spending in a budget. Score is 0 out of 10... just shows how easy it is to get out of this situation if you guys actually sacrifice and grind and not prioritize your fun.” (114:26)

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For Further Content

Join the Post Show!
Caleb teases even more, “thousands of hours” of exclusive commentary and follow-up in the Hammer Elite version—accessible only through the show’s YouTube membership.

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For listeners: This episode is a masterclass in personal finance “tough love.” Whether you’re a high earner or not, the lessons about communication, sacrifice, and the pitfalls of lifestyle inflation are universally applicable. The solution is not magic—it’s discipline, teamwork, and facing uncomfortable truths head-on.

Transcript

[A]

To watch episodes of Financial Audit a week earlier. Check us out on YouTube.

[B]

Financially, we are.

[C]

No, I don't think financial work.

[A]

If it's so easy, then why are we here?

[C]

I guess we're near the breaking point. I guess.

[A]

What?

[B]

We're not. We are at the breaking point, babe.

[C]

It's so fixable, though.

[A]

Bull. You have $100 in your checking account.

[B]

But you're still buying stuff that we do not need. Constantly.

[C]

Who wouldn't want more of their money to spend or to control in the way that they want it?

[A]

You are not seeing the alarm sound like he is.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I don't know about that.

[A]

Download my and take control of your money once and for all. And for a limited time only, sign up for the annual version of premium and get my cookbook and notebook signed and mailed directly to you. Link in the description and pinned comment below.

[C]

Hi, I'm Elle. I'm 31.

[B]

And I'm Paul. And I'm 38.

[C]

And we're from San Antonio and this is Financial Audit.

[A]

Thanks for coming up from San Antonio, guys. I really appreciate it. Al, you're in front of me. Let's start with you. What do you do for a living?

[C]

I'm a student. I just barely graduated from utsa.

[A]

Barely graduated?

[C]

Yeah. Well, December, as in.

[A]

Okay, so you're not that you almost failed?

[C]

Oh, no, sorry. No, no, no. I recently graduated graduate with. I have a bachelor of biology.

[A]

Very good. What are we going to do December? So it's been a second. It's been about five months.

[C]

Yes. So I want to become a physician assistant. So I'm applying over the summer to physician assistant programs, but I'm expensive. Currently, I'm a master's student, but it starts in June for another program. I got accepted. Yeah, I'm doing okay. So it's really competitive. Physician assistant.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[C]

Only like 13% of the people get accepted. And so I thought to be more competitive, I would get a second master's degree.

[A]

A second master's degree? You have another master's degree?

[C]

Well, no. I just got accepted into unthsc, which is based out of Fort Worth, Texas, and it's a master's of lifestyle sciences and health coaching.

[A]

Okay. Why not just pick up a lot of hours at hospitals and different things, Doing a lot of things. Someone I know I knew that was going into physician assistant school. She was just grinding at hospitals, working nights, all these things, picking up those hours, and that was really helping her application to get in. I did consider that endless school.

[C]

Well, not Endless. But I actually have a lot of experience in the medical field. I've been in it Since I was 16 and I was in the Navy for six years and I was a hospital corpse.

[A]

So was undergrad paid for?

[C]

Yes, totally paid for.

[A]

So there's no student loans even though I have a massive stack of debt. So the fact that it's not student loans is extra worrying. What do you do, Paul?

[B]

I am in the Navy, about to retire.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Very good. What does income look like right now?

[C]

Well, he makes 3,600 twice a month and I make 4,750. So together we bring in around 11,000 or 12,000.

[A]

How are you making money?

[C]

Oh, I'm a VA disability with dependents. We have two kids.

[A]

Right. Okay, 4,700 twice a month.

[C]

No, I make 4,700 once a month and he makes 3600 twice a month and it equals between 11 and 12.

[A]

Are you gonna get disability too?

[B]

Oh, yes, I will.

[A]

There is not a single veteran that has come on the show that does not just get endless money for the rest of their life with disability.

[C]

It breaks your body and mind.

[B]

I'm old, I've done a lot. I'm a police officer for the Navy. So I've done a lot of hard working stuff throughout the, throughout the time, which I'm just. I got issues all around.

[A]

But even people that just serve for like three years and they just sat on a base, they get it. Like there has not been one single person on this ENT that doesn't get thousands of dollars for the rest of their life. I think it's like 5% of our budget now.

[B]

It's something crazy.

[A]

It's something crazy like that. It's just disability is forever.

[C]

Well, they serve their country and they.

[A]

Probably have earned it, but it's disability.

[C]

Yeah, I get that. But there's things that when you serve your country and you break your body or you can't.

[A]

I totally agree. I'm saying every single person that has ever been on this show who has literally just sat at a base and did nothing.

[B]

And I also get this. I know a lot of them. Yes, they will be able claim some stuff. Yes.

[A]

I'm not saying if you go get hurt or anything, like, I think that's why it's there. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Right. That's what it's intended for.

[A]

That's what it's intended for. But. Okay, so we're making 11,900 right now.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What are you going to be making in retirement about.

[B]

Yeah, a Little bit. No, a little bit less than that. Cuz I'm going to have my retirement pay for after, you know, 21 years. I'll have also the disability. We don't know what that's going to look like. The goal obviously and the, the prayers, the 100% disability that will bring in the same amount as her and then the retirement will be a good chunk. So we're looking at about similar to.

[C]

What we make now.

[B]

Yeah, 6,000 in probably a year. Oh, I'm sorry. A month.

[A]

A month. Okay.

[B]

So. And that's just, just by retirement purposes though.

[A]

When, when does that come in? So we'll go from 11,900 to 10,700. When does that.

[B]

290 days. I retire. So. February.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, okay. Okay. Very cool, very cool. So we have a little bit of time with a little higher income. Yep. Okay. Okay. So what's going on? Cause this is an incredibly strong income. Incredibly strong income. When you just get to go to school and have this income. So incredibly strong income. Why are we struggling so much? What the possible is happening? What's going on here? I feel like I have two halfway reasonable people in front of me.

[B]

Yeah, what's going on?

[C]

Well, I think we just have some bad spending habits and I think, I think the mentality that partly got us here has just been like if we can afford the payment, we can take on the debt. Like when it comes to cars.

[A]

So is this getting their minimum fee payments forever?

[C]

Yeah, we do.

[A]

I literally have a spending category called miscellaneous bush. There's things that just do not improve life. This is random swipes. It is nothing. It's not fast food. But it could be a video game. It could be whatever. I don't know. I haven't gone through. I go through and blind with the audience. But this is the pre work that my team has done. That was $4,137 within a month. That's just miscellaneous bull. That is not going out to eat, by the way. Which there is an additional. A lot of money which we'll go into for that and then other things we prioritize.

[B]

Fun.

[C]

Yeah, we do.

[B]

We have two children. They're young.

[C]

So you know, creating memories.

[B]

We are creating memories, but they're costing us.

[A]

What are the ages of the kids?

[C]

Seven and eight.

[B]

We have a daughter who's eight and a son who's seven.

[A]

Now let me ask you this. We've talked about the military disability, right. And I'm not saying it's something that shouldn't exist for obviously People that need it and have earned it. But of course, we know there is probably abuse as well, which has certainly been shown on the show. However, that being said, do we think we probably feel, if I'm adding all this up, minimum 6, $7,000 on bull, do we think we probably feel like we can just go do that on a monthly basis? Because you know this is going to come in no matter what you do in your life, no matter what, you can go do anything, you can go fail out of college, you can do whatever and you will get this money. And because of this social safety net, because of this thing that is just there for you, no matter what, we're just like, oh, let's just go blow all of our money. Because it's basically retirement forever. You never have to think you can just f around.

[B]

And we have, we've actually, we've come out of debt twice.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, we've managed to come out of debt over the last 10 years. We've been married for 10 years.

[C]

10 years.

[B]

So over that time frame, we've come out of twice, paid off everything. You know, once with children, once without children.

[A]

What was payoff? Tell me, tell me how that looked.

[C]

We were completely debt free. All of our cars were paid for. We didn't own a mortgage. We were renting at the time and we had no credit cards. That was the first time.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And we did it through Dave Ramsey.

[B]

The snowball effect on stuff.

[A]

How are we possibly in this position?

[C]

Well, then we.

[B]

And then we cath kids, we racked up a lot more debt. We went through again and got debt free. And then the big problem is what.

[A]

Was the debt free in that situation? How did we get debt free?

[C]

Then the second time, we're not actually debt free. We did a debt consolidation through our home equity.

[B]

Okay, so debt free without the. The cars and the. And the mortgage.

[A]

But it was a debt free move.

[B]

It was, it was a.

[A]

It was moving the debt somewhere.

[B]

Was not.

[A]

Did we close the cards and everything after that?

[B]

No.

[A]

Meaning we moved the debt somewhere and then we built up the debt again.

[C]

Right. That's exactly.

[A]

When did we do that?

[C]

That was in 2023. So like two years ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so we've accumulated this in just a couple of years.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. This is through the experiences. And I mean, they are in the experience ages. A lot of people are. When they come on the show, they're like, oh, I'm going for the experience. But their kids, like 2, 3, 4, and they're like, okay. They're not even forming core memories. You actually are 7 and 8. So I kind of understand that. But I mean, making a super strong income, I mean, let's be honest. Is that 11,900? What's hitting after taxes? Everything. Is that what's kind of settling our account? That's. I mean, that's incredible. With that, we're talking $142,800 a year after taxes. You can live in an incredible life in San Antonio. Cheapest major city in Texas. You can live an incredible life on that. What kind of. Why are we living at $250,000 lifestyle on that? Because you can still do great experiences. You got a great zoo, you got SeaWorld there. You got a lot of things. Then you got major metros. You can go everywhere we don't need to be. I don't know what you guys are doing, but what like why aren't we living what could be an incredible life off of this and then just cap and do that? Because if you budget $142,000 net you can still live. I mean double the median household income for San Antonio if I had to guess. Just about maybe 33% higher. But even still like that's still great. So what are we doing?

[C]

Well, one of our major expenses is our kids are in sports and activities.

[A]

Okay, that's one.

[B]

Gymnastics.

[C]

My daughter's a gym. She it caught. Well, she does four different lessons a week. She has two group classes, two private lessons.

[A]

How much is that?

[C]

So 232 for the two group lessons.

[A]

And a week or month?

[C]

A month.

[A]

Well you can budget. You can afford that.

[B]

But then it's all the other stuff that my wife likes to buy. The. The.

[C]

Yeah, she has an at home gymnastics gym in our.

[A]

But that's one time, right?

[C]

Well, yeah, it just cost a lot.

[A]

How much, how much does that cost?

[B]

It keeps building. It keeps building.

[C]

Well, I'm, I'm done now. I think. I've. I don't know put all the things in there that need to be in there.

[A]

How much does it cost from zero to now?

[C]

Well, each mat is $100 and she's got about seven and then she has two bars two beams gun.

[A]

Honestly, couple thousand you can afford it over the course of a year. So like that's all?

[B]

No, this was all within like six months.

[A]

Six months, you can afford a couple thousand again. You really can. I don't know what your life is.

[B]

I mean it's a lot.

[A]

Your mortgage for taxes isn't that crazy? I don't know how you guys are this up. Yeah, this is gonna be like a science experiment to figure this one out. Cause mortgage we're sitting at 213.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That is not bad for this world. That is actually below the median purchase price for a home in the United States. You guys make again if we're thinking pre tax well above you're double the median household income in the United States. How are we this up? It is not a $2,000 thing over the course of six months. But what it could be are multiple $2,000 things over the course of six months. Stack, stack, stack, stack, stack forever.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Well I also think like once you start. Well you know this because you're a financial expert but you.

[A]

Well I Mean, I just got out of debt, but congratulations to you. No, I'm saying I'm not a licensed financial expert. I am someone who got out of really bad debt, accumulated a quarter million net worth before I started my show. Like. Yes, but I want to be clear. There is no license. But there isn't needed for this kind of conversation.

[C]

I just was gonna say I think the interest, once you get to really high debt, really starts adding up. And I think like the inflation with the economy, that's also had an impact on us.

[A]

And then report just came out Today, it was 2.4%. What are you talking about?

[C]

Well, like, things just sort of cost more than they used to.

[A]

If you always will, inflation always exists forever. You don't want deflation or stagnation. But like our income inflation's 2.4% right now. What are we talking. We haven't had a bad inflation report in a year and a half. What are we talking about?

[C]

I was going to say, like we make the same amount of money and even though it's like steadily, like same.

[A]

Amount of money since when? Since what? Your disability hasn't been.

[C]

I got out in 2018 and it's. Yeah. Pretty much been the same. I mean, maybe pretty much been the same. I mean, a little increase.

[A]

What's the increase? What percentage increase?

[C]

I don't know, maybe 1% every year.

[B]

I don't know. I don't remember what it was.

[A]

Oh, come on. If we're Talking inflation at 2.4%, you think they usually do like the Social Security increase every few years or so. I mean, they kind of boost it near inflation levels pretty close. I mean, depending, you know, sometimes it's a little. Sometimes.

[C]

Do you have all the information on inflation for the last like couple of years or relatively.

[A]

Yes, when it peaked, inflation, what, 2023, we're at 9.4, but it was on a steady decrease all of 2024, 2025 so far. Last year was the best year in S&P 500 history this millennium because inflation rates were going down and Fed was cutting rates, which made debt more.

[B]

I think. I think in general, not just like inflation specifically is something item. It is just overall, in general, all the items we do, all the stuff we do consistently has been expensive, cost more.

[A]

I mean, that's how everything works forever. Except for TVs. Yeah. I mean, everything goes up. The cost of everything goes up. Cost of your labor goes up. So the cost of expenses go up.

[B]

It does, but we don't. We don't plan for that. Kind of style.

[C]

I think we just.

[A]

You don't plan for money going up, which is what it's always done since the history of money. Yeah.

[C]

Who really plans for that, though? Like, we just didn't adjust our lifestyle are responsible.

[A]

I don't know. I mean, you get again, I bet you've gotten an increase more than 1% if we're being real.

[B]

I. I don't. I wish. I. I don't know. I don't pay attention.

[A]

So we know that inflation's bad, even though you don't know the percentage of what's actually happening, but you don't know what your income is. We know that the cost of things go up, but we don't know that our. If our disability is going up.

[C]

I know it increases every year. I just feel like.

[A]

Okay, feel. I don't care about feel. Budget. Why don't you budget? What do we budget? Do we budget? What's the conversation around finances in the household?

[B]

We use. We were using Excel spreadsheet to pay.

[A]

The bills, which it can work and for a lot of people, but they prefer that. But for most people, honestly, it doesn't work because it's so manual that it requires putting in the time, putting in the work. And sometimes putting in the time, putting in the work is good because then you see the statements. But the automated process of like a budgeting app is what is preferable. I don't care if you use mine. You can use any ones. I prefer mine. I prefer the simple one. Whatever, that's fine. But it's the automated like account connections and everything. That is what is gonna actually help versus you sitting down. Have to do it. Cause we probably didn't stick to it, right? No, exactly. And that's what always happens. Instead of just being able to open up and see like what is actually happening. For the sake of the month. What are the conversations around money in this house?

[B]

The conversations of finances within us is just go buy it. Buy it.

[C]

Well, okay. It's not exactly.

[B]

Yeah, we don't have a. Oh, we used to. I think we used to a long time ago, had a budget of if you're gonna spend anything over $100, anything over $100 needs to be between you. And that was, you know, years ago, before the kids. And we haven't done that in a long time. But that was something that we had that was going to be helpful. Now she's, you know, she. And I'll throw myself in there. She and I are buying whatever we want over $100 without you know, asking or discussing it with someone. We're just doing it. And then afterwards we're, hey, I bought this, you know, And I'm like, are you serious?

[A]

Like, so what do we. What do we do in those instances then?

[B]

Forgetting and moving on.

[A]

Why? But that doesn't produce anything going forward. Well, that's not gonna get us anywhere.

[B]

No, but that's what we've been doing, you know.

[A]

And is it to avoid confrontation?

[C]

No, I don't think so.

[A]

Then what is it? I think, what's the logic? Let's hear the logic.

[C]

Like, if I spend money on stuff for the kids, like clothes or activities or holidays, and he's unaware. He knows it's happening.

[A]

Yeah, he knows it's happening. Does he know how much?

[C]

He doesn't know how much.

[A]

Is there a reflection? Do we sit down and discuss how.

[C]

Much at some point?

[B]

Yeah, no, it shows. It shows afterwards when the boxes show up at the house.

[C]

Yeah, that's when we usually talk about.

[A]

Talking about the monetary amount.

[B]

Oh, I do. Oh, I do. Oh, I do. We bought new gym gym members or gym beam and thing that was crappy, you know, and stuff like that. Got home and then we're not even going to use it. And it was over a hundred dollars, you know, so, you know.

[A]

But we blame inflation instead of our inability to just have a conversation or sit down about it or not. I wouldn't say inflation.

[B]

We don't blame. I say we kind of did.

[A]

She kind of did she?

[C]

It's one of the factors, I think.

[A]

I think the bigger factor is you guys don't talk. No, we talk about before you purchase.

[C]

Oh, we don't talk before we purchase now.

[A]

Yeah, I would say that's a little bigger of an impact.

[C]

We talk after the purchases usually, but.

[B]

Again, it's not always, you know, the best because, like, I'm like, you didn't need to buy that. You don't need to buy that. Oh, it's already bought. Well, that's.

[A]

Who wears the pants here financially? Neither.

[B]

None of us.

[C]

I think we're both spenders.

[B]

We are both spendering.

[A]

One of the ways I'm a spender, but I also know how to budget. I allocate the amount of money that I'm allowed to spend. It's okay to be a. A spender. Just have any kind of knowledge into your financial situation. Again, I mean, just blaming inflation, it's in our way out, right? It's actions for you. It's going to be actions more than anything. Again, literally this time last year, to now 2.4%.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I don't pay attention.

[C]

I believe you. It doesn't feel like that, but I believe you feel.

[A]

Because you want to spend more if we're being honest, right?

[C]

Well, yeah, I mean, who wouldn't want more of their money to spend or to control in the way that they want it? But yeah.

[A]

When you guys got together, the finances.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Was one of you. One of you good? Both of you? Both of you good? What did it look like? What is this like? I wanna see what you guys have been through in these 10 years financially related before we dive into this. Cause I need to see who's where and what's happening.

[C]

So we met when I was 19, he was 26. And we were both in the Navy.

[A]

I don't need the love story. But who's the. Where were you? So there's finances.

[B]

When we were there, I had a lot of debt, prior marriage, you know, obviously being in the Navy, you know, by myself. First time living San Diego, going overseas, coming back to, you know, to the.

[A]

States, boys on the boat, you know.

[B]

Lots of expensive purchases. Myself, you know, lots of things just to live right. So I racked up a lot of debt before I married her.

[A]

Did you know that?

[C]

No.

[A]

Really?

[B]

No. I did because I knew that I was about to go overseas into the Middle east where I was gonna make a lot more money.

[A]

And that's where goals forgiven.

[B]

That's where the goal was to hopefully pay off the debt before we were able to live together again after the marriage. So she knew about a little bit, but she didn't know all of it. It wasn't like I was intentionally trying to hide all of it and stuff like that. I was just like, hey, let me, let me, let me pay off what I can then. So then I went overseas to Bahrain. I paid off $20,000 of the debt there, which was nice, you know. So coming back together, I had still a little bit of debt for myself still. When we, when we, you know, got to.

[C]

Got to live together geographically together, because I was in. I was stationed in Spain and he was stationed in born.

[A]

Yeah, but what was your thought about the debt when you heard the debt and how long? Because obviously we learned that, I mean, we only paid off the debt not horribly long ago the first time. So I'm assuming that part of the debt was some of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who's been the accumulator debt in the relationship?

[C]

He came into the relationship with a lot of debt. But after we paid off that debt, then probably maybe I've taken on more debt but it's been pretty equal.

[B]

I think we both have been, you know, spending a lot of the debt, putting everything in the debt. However, I think it's been a lot more with the children. You know, can't blame the kids. But I'm not blaming the kids.

[A]

The thing is situation high income earning households. They can get even more than low income earning households because you have the ability on paper to qualify for more debt and you'll get yourself in a position that is just. Absolutely. Then you're going to put your kids in a horrible situation. You want to give them the life now. You want them to give them the experiences now. Now. But you are going to put them in a situation where they are only going to see stress between mom and dad because mom and dad are finally going to have the conversation about money and it's going to go. It's going to be a blow up because oh no, we can't pay our minimum payments this month.

[C]

That's. I don't think that's ever happened but happened.

[A]

You're on the track to happening.

[B]

I don't want that. I don't want. I don't want the kids to be.

[A]

You want to take out a home equity loan to start paying off some debt or something. Good luck with where the market's been overall. Like you can only do that so many times. You would have to have a complete boom in the market to be able to keep pulling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then where's like if we're maxing out our debt, debt to income is really bad. Where's our exit from debt? Besides bankruptcy? At a certain point it just becomes bankruptcy consolidation might not be able to apply. How are we getting out of debt?

[C]

Only more recently I think he's been more on board about switching some of the lifestyle things. I think it's hard for both of us to like. I think we both needed to be fair. Like if I'm getting rid of something, he has to get rid of something. And so just agreeing on what to cut.

[A]

What's your fun? What's your fun? Yours is the gymnastic whatever. What's your fun?

[C]

That's my daughter's.

[A]

Your fun is playing with the kids. What's your fun?

[B]

I'm a collector. I collect a lot of things. What Collecting a lot of different things. I go through phases. So I've done movies, DVDs for the longest time when they were still making DVDs and stuff like that. So I have a very large collection of that.

[A]

Then who's More motivated. Motivated to get out of debt.

[C]

Me? Probably.

[B]

Probably her.

[A]

Why wouldn't you be motivated? I mean, we're reaching retirement.

[B]

I'm motivated. I'm motivated. I just.

[A]

Why do you see her being more versus you?

[C]

I'm leading the conversation.

[B]

She is.

[C]

Of fixing our finances.

[A]

Yeah, but your conversation's only post spending.

[B]

I think. I think there, you know, there needs to be a lot of stuff that she needs to stop doing and spending on and I need to stop spending on.

[A]

What would you say she needs to stop spending on?

[B]

Oh, clothes or, you know, things for the kids that are not needed. Birthdays, Christmases.

[C]

I was trying to get things on sale, like, and then I don't know. If you go to shopping centers in December. They're insane. They're so packed, there's nothing left.

[A]

What do you think he should start sending on?

[C]

Maybe, like, ebay, all of, like, the old military memorabilia.

[A]

All right, well, let's see where the spending is, guys. I'm gonna go three, two, one, go. At the. At the same time on go, I want you to give me what you think your household financial score is 0 to 10, 10 being the best, 0 being the worst. Okay. Just where you think you are in the world of finances. Okay. 3, 2, 1, 2, 3. If you want to see where you stand, take the assessment. You can go to calebhammer.com or click that link in the description below. And you can come sit across from me at this table by going to calebhammer.com apply. Never forget, if you don't want to be like any kind of guest on this show, all you have to do is download my budgeting app. And for those who sign up for the annual version, I'll sign our cookbook that can't be purchased anywhere else, and I'll send it directly to your door. Navy Federal. No surprise. So what is going on with this card, guys?

[C]

Is it. I think the first one's mine, right?

[A]

Oh, my.

[C]

Me.

[A]

The one that's basically maxed out at $24,608.43. Yeah, that's.

[C]

What the.

[B]

That's yours.

[A]

That's an insane balance. What are we doing? That's an insane balance. Yeah, that's a disgusting balance. With the $1,757.25 of purchases while only making the minimum payment. If we could only make the minimum payment, it's basically max out interest is occurring. We can't pay it off to save our life. Why the. Are we purchasing $1,757 on here of all Places.

[C]

Why?

[B]

Why?

[A]

Oh, come on. You seem like the reasonable one. You're the one that wants to get out of debt. You're the one that's pushing the household forward. You're the one that's starting the conversations. But you're also the one that's gonna go blow up this card and purchase thousands of dollars on a card that can't be paid off, that is accruing interest.

[C]

My son's birthday was last month.

[A]

Oh, for sake.

[C]

And parties are really. I do.

[A]

I want him to have a college fund. I want him to not have to go save mommy and Daddy when Mommy and Daddy can't keep a roof over their heads, when he's in his young adulthood and has to all of a sudden sacrifice. Come on, We've seen this happen in life. I've seen people come on the show who are the parents that the kids have had to help. I've seen people who are the kids that have to help the parents. It's a birthday we can do. Young kids, right? I don't have one. Okay, but young kids. We all know young kids. You can do without being bougie and crazy and they will still love it. Okay? I mean, we're talking teenagers when they start to be like, what the. Okay, so it's like.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Well, I think they definitely snuck up on us that, you know, all of the payments stuff, because we. We didn't plan for it.

[A]

What snuck up on a birthday?

[B]

The charges? The payments? No, just whatever. Just buying whatever.

[A]

This is a purchase of a thousand seven hundred fifty seven to maxing out the card. How did that sneak up on us?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

How could that sneak up? That's not a sneak up. What do we mean, sneak up? This isn't. It's not al Qaeda come behind you.

[B]

I just. I just think that with all this stuff, we. The way we live and the way we do it is that we have our main debit card that we use, right? That we purchase everything that we get paid. On that one, I get paid twice, you know, a month. She gets paid once a month. We use that money. Once it's gone, we switch to our credit cards. And that includes. That's whatever, you know, oh, hey, I gotta get gas now. Because we're down to $100 left in our bank account.

[A]

No. So I guess you guys do not get down to $100 in your bank account with your income less than that.

[B]

We have to.

[A]

What are we.

[B]

We have all these bills. If you look at that, there's a Lot of.

[A]

If we have all the bills and we're not having birthdays.

[B]

We are having birthdays.

[A]

No, no, we're going to McDonald's.

[B]

We are going to McDonald's for.

[A]

For the birthday. And that's the one thing we're doing that month, that year. Yes. If we have bills that we can't pay and we have $100 in our checking account, that's how.

[B]

No, every year. The thing is, every year, she wants to have one child, have a good birthday, right?

[A]

One child. We select two.

[B]

No, it rotates between the children, okay? And one child gets to have a birthday of something extreme, a birthday party, whatever it is.

[C]

And the other one has, like, a family.

[B]

So this year, my son, he took his three best friends to an entertainment place, all right? And we had to pay all that stuff there, all right?

[A]

And that is more important than the household stability of our financial situation for the sake of their future?

[B]

No, I just don't think. We thought about it. We didn't include it. We just did it.

[C]

I just think our house is really stable, okay?

[A]

Bullshit. You have $100 in your checking account. You can't feel $100 in our checking account, okay?

[B]

Our house is stable for living and family and stuff like that. What she's talking about. She's talking finances. That's what you're talking about. She's not talking about finances. She's not talking about finances.

[C]

Yes, I am.

[B]

Financial, stable.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

We're not.

[C]

This is my opinion, is that we have money coming in every single month. Stable income that you can expect. I know. I'm not saying that the spending is stable, but the income, that's what it is.

[B]

That's the problem, right? The. The income is coming in. Yes, I. I understand that, babe, but you have. The problem for us is that. That when we do it, we spend that money that is not stable.

[C]

Okay, well, agree to disagree.

[A]

Okay, we agree to disagree.

[B]

So that's why he's here. That's why we're here now. Because we. It's not a disagree to disagree.

[A]

How could you disagree with that? Hey, pookie. Our Memorial Day sale is happening right now, and it's your shot to grab some of the tools you need to own your financial Future. And for 10 short days, May 23 through midnight on June 2, every single one of our classes is discounted. Pick any individual course and slash 20% off. Just $157 each. Or you could go all in with the complete master your money Bundle and save $237 at 30% off so you can secure the Core 4 courses at a massive discount. And inside you'll find step by step lessons on budgeting, crushing debt and beginner to advance investing. Everything you need to start making smarter money moves today. And this deal disappears the moment the clock hits midnight on June 2nd. Click the link in the description below. Lock in those Memorial Day savings before they're gone. Take control of your financial future today. See you in the classes.

[C]

You're saying that financially we're instable, even though we're making all the payments.

[A]

Girl, your debt's going up. That's how you're making your payments. Because in order to purchase the things that you want in order to make the payments. I will give you an example. May I, may I draw this for you? May I draw something? I'm going to have a little drawing exercise. You know, let's go back. We have a top camera now. Hello, top camera. Okay, let's say this is our income. Okay. Okay, let's say that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And let's say this part's our min payments. Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So this is our minimum payments in order to make that. And maybe let's say we're making that. I don't know. Well, let's go through. But you still want it like you spend the entire party chart, even though these are minimum payments, how do we do that? How do we spend the full column?

[C]

Well, we spend the full column.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. How do we spend the full column? How do we do that? How do we make that work? If we want to spend this much, but we also have to unfortunately allocate that much to minimum payments, how do we do that?

[B]

I don't have the answer. That's why.

[A]

Well, the answer is we're here, take this amount of spending right here and we put it on credit cards. Because if you put this amount of spending that is needed to go to minimum payments, but we want to spend it on fun, you spend it on fun here, you spend it on fun on the credit cards in order to make the minimum payment. If you are not spending on credit cards, you could not make your minimum monthly payments. If you did the same amount of spending you did on the debt like on the credit cards that went up that you made minimum payment on that push it to the max. If you put this on checking, you could not make minimum payments. You're only able to feel like you make the bills paid because you put fun on credit cards.

[C]

Okay, that's true, that's true.

[A]

So how are we financially stable? I Feel like we're going into debt.

[B]

We are. That we are.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

We're not financially stable. We're not financially stable.

[C]

Well, okay, I still disagree. I do feel like we are financially stable, but I do hear where you're coming from.

[B]

Oh, my God. No.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Well, sir, we have a financial insurgency happening. Put it down.

[B]

I mean, I just. The fact of the matter is we both live way without our means. We have a lot of fun. We pay a lot of money towards fun, whether it be on the credit card or whether it be debit card. I don't think we have a stable process to do anything. We just say, I.

[C]

Everything's on auto pay and it comes.

[B]

Out of our debit bills are on auto pay.

[C]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

Which is. Okay, that's that. But what I'm talking about, like, just in general, anything we do, whether groceries, the gas, the traveling, the whatever we're doing. All right, now I will tell you. I will tell you. There is a lot of times when we are. One parent is with one child at their activity, the other parents with the other child at the other activity. So we're not even together for dinner time. We're not together to do a lot of stuff. So we're spending double the amount of stuff. Things going through that, you know, that happens a lot too. There's a lot of things that just come into fruition for us that we just end up going, all right, just put it on the green card. Put it on the green card.

[A]

All right, let me ask a question. We know what your income is, right? 1,900. And that's basically what we saw last month.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Yeah. Actually basically identical.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

What do you think was spent on minor.

[C]

His.

[A]

Nope. Household.

[B]

Oh, what was spent in a month? Yep.

[A]

In the most recent month, I would.

[C]

Say probably for the statements that we have 14,000.

[A]

Okay. And you.

[C]

14, like, total for the whole month. Like, how much is coming out?

[B]

We. Oh, we get 11,000. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[C]

Well, 12ish thousand is coming in.

[B]

Yeah, it's over. It's over 11,000. I'll give you. It's like 13,000.

[A]

If you are the disagreer. How is that considered financially stable if we're spending. Let's. You said 14,000 for spending 14,000 making 11,900. 12,000, let's say. How is that financially stable?

[C]

It's not financially smart, but it is stable as long as you can make payments.

[A]

No, no, no. I need to correct this mindset because it's dangerous for the future. It is not stable if Our debt is just building, building, building. Because then it gets to a point where all of a sudden the damn breaks.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And we've been there. That's why we. That's why.

[A]

And that's when you did the consolidation. Because it got to the breaking point.

[C]

I would have never been to the breaking point. I don't know what you mean by that.

[B]

The breaking point is the way that we have been like all the money that's been accumulating over everything.

[C]

Well, okay. I think we are to the point. The fact that I'm of almost maxed out my credit card and we don't.

[A]

No, it's. It's at max. I mean, come on, you can go get a couple fries from McDonald's.

[C]

But it's nice, right? Well.

[B]

And you've raised.

[C]

I guess we're near the breaking point. I guess. But I don't know. I don't.

[A]

What?

[B]

We're not. No, no. We are at the breaking point.

[C]

Big okay.

[B]

We are at the breaking point. That's why we're here now to try to hopefully get a grasp.

[C]

Yeah, I do want to make changes.

[B]

We need to make major changes. We need to make a lot of changes. But we are at that point right now that we are literally needing to do this because we do not. We can't live. We're living outside of our payments.

[C]

I agree.

[B]

Okay. That is not financially stable.

[C]

Well, I just came from a really uninstable, financially unstable household.

[B]

Good.

[C]

And to me, this is fantastic. Financially stable.

[A]

No, that's great.

[B]

No, this is.

[A]

And you know what that should do. I came from a financially unstable household. Foreclosure notices. You know what that did. That made me get my together. Why would you seem financially unstable? Mean. Let's replicate that for my children.

[C]

I think our children have a really great life.

[A]

They have a great life by you going into debt. Whenever my parents were able to send me to go do something cool with summer camp or something, it was on debt. And then I saw that stack to the point where minimum fee payments could not be made, which meant the mortgage payment couldn't be made, which meant foreclosure notices.

[B]

And we don't want.

[A]

I don't want to get there, but we're headed there. What do we do? If one half of the relationship honestly thinks that, okay, we're not at the breaking point, we can continue going down this path, but the other doesn't. How are we able to combine that? What can we do?

[C]

I don't think either one of us wants to continue on the Track we're on.

[A]

But you are not seeing the alarm sound like he is.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes.

[C]

I don't know about that because I'm the one that brought us here.

[A]

I've heard your language, though.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

I mean, we've all heard you talk in this conversation. I'm not trying to bully you. I'm not trying to stack up against you. I don't like when it gets 2v1, but what do we do when it gets to the point where he sees the wee woos and you're not?

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And this has happened before, really opposite. What do you mean where I was the one that wasn't seeing the. If you want to say, you know, the bells and whistles. Right. And she was the one going, hey, this is the situation. We're to that. And that's where we were able to come together, pay off the bills, pay off the debt. Right. The first time. And it was nice. It was great. Snowball. Great, right? We finally got on because I was not understanding it. I was just living. Just living right, Doing what I want to do. So she got me onto understanding that. And here we are now, years later. And now it's reversed. And I don't think it's reversed. It is reversed. It's reversed because you don't see the bells and whistles as he wants to say. That's pretty cool.

[C]

Okay, I don't think. I don't see the bells and whistles, but I do think we need to fix our finances.

[B]

We do. That's.

[C]

Can we just agree on that?

[B]

Okay. We need to Vs. We all agree on that. That's why we're here.

[A]

Language behind it is not a. I.

[C]

Don'T feel like it's an emergency, but.

[B]

It is an emergency. That's why we need to fix this. Because we do not have the way to live the way we're living.

[C]

Although we do have more income coming in starting in June, July.

[B]

No, but that doesn't. Okay, that's. No, because that's.

[A]

That.

[B]

Is that the problem, though, is that. That as what's coming in a little bit for you to go to school? All right? But next year, I am done. I am done working at the Navy. I will not have that job anymore. And I'm only going to get some partial money back. Right? We don't know what my VA is going to look like. All right? So we have to change our entire lifestyle now before we get to that point. And. Oh, great, Now I'm retired. Now what are we going to do? We cannot live and cannot do this stuff between now until I retire. We have to figure something out.

[C]

Okay, I agree.

[A]

But you agree on the sentiment, but you don't agree on the fundamentals, from the sound of it. Because you're pushing.

[C]

What fundamentally am I not getting?

[B]

Are you serious right now, bro?

[A]

That you think that this isn't horrible as long as we can make the minimum payments, but you're pushing towards that edge. That's what you were pushing back on. You agree with the sentence. They're written on paper. Let's get out of debt. But you guys are not aligned on the fundamental of where we're at, what it takes to get there.

[C]

No, I think we are aligned on what it takes to get out of debt.

[B]

No, you say it. Yes, but then look at your things that you buy constantly. I tell you all the time, just stop buying that. Stop buying that. Good example. Right? Until I freaking did it. But the candle subscription, right? I wanted it, didn't need it, but I kept doing it. You kept telling me to cancel it. It didn't cancel. Until finally when I. We get to the point where, like, now we got to start canceling stuff, but you're still buying stuff that is there that we do not need constantly. You don't need to buy the children a million things of the same clothes, the same shoes, the same stuff.

[C]

They need school, they need sports.

[B]

But what they don't need is 18 pairs of freaking pants because you like the way they Look.

[C]

I have 18 pairs of freaking.

[B]

I'm giving you an example.

[C]

That's not a good example.

[B]

Okay? Pick something else that you know that I'm.

[C]

I'm right on when it comes to the children's clothes.

[B]

No, just anything in general. Anything Us.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

That's what happens all the time, though, okay? You buy stuff all the time. There's always something you buy, and you're like, oh, it's the wrong size. And I tell you that all the time. It's the wrong size. This is the wrong stuff, it's the wrong measurements. It's something like that. You're like, oh, I didn't know. Oh, I thought it was going to work constantly.

[C]

Okay. Constantly feels a little. All right, well, whatever.

[A]

I'm curious. Is that how every conversation goes? Because this is. So what kind of happens, right? Is. I mean, it was a little heated, and that's totally okay. The emotions are good. Like, nothing's wrong with that. You know, he kind of pushed back on you about some of the purchases, and you kind of did the Thing that sometimes upsets me on the show and like. Like the audience isn't here, so, you know, they don't fully get the vibe. And they've kind of called me out when I, you know, get a little upset at it. But it almost feels like. Like, in a way, kind of when people do that to me when I push back on them is they're just kind of saying that just to have it before.

[C]

He said the beam was a bad purchase, I recognized the beam was a bad purchase. I had really good intentions. But then the actuality of it ended up being $150, we didn't need to spend on a second beam.

[B]

Sweetheart, your intentions are always.

[C]

I do have really pure intentions, and I have great intentions, and I do think that has partly led to our.

[B]

Debt problem execution on that.

[C]

Okay, I agree. Okay.

[A]

And for what it's worth, I mean, I'm not saying it's bad to be giving or anything. It's not even at all. But, you know, there's lots of psychological analysis that shows that a lot of the acts of giving, you know, especially on a reoccurring way, is usually. Is also driven a little bit by selfishness because you'd get high dopamine levels through gifting.

[C]

I think it's more about.

[A]

You love gifting, and it just. You see the Lord and it feels really good. And it doesn't mean gifting is bad. I'm not saying that I want to be very clear, but there are. It can very much be associated with a selfless desire to feel the reward.

[B]

I will. I will tell you, we do love blessing others. That is one of our things. We bless others, but you guys can.

[A]

Bless so much more people if we're not in a lot of debt.

[C]

Okay, fair enough.

[A]

But imagine the amount of blessings we can give when we're not. Okay. By the way, the real number, you said $14,000. You thought it was a little less than that. It was $15,116. You spent 27% more than came in. Okay, how long can we do that?

[B]

But I will say that that is our biggest spending moments and our biggest hit to ourselves is from December to May. That's all the birthdays, that's all the Christmases, the holidays. That's all the activities. That's everything that we deal with.

[A]

I'm just saying, if I look at. Look, last fall, last late summer, I'm not gonna see you spend more than you made.

[B]

No, you're gonna see, but not 27. You're gonna see.

[C]

No, you Will, because I went crazy for this Christmas, this particular Christmas. I went way above what's special about this Christmas. It's. I don't know.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

I just tried something new where I started in July, and I was trying to get things on sale again.

[B]

It was a good intention. It was a great intention. I love your blessing.

[C]

I was trying to get things on sale. Sale. And I just was like, so we.

[B]

Wouldn'T be spending a billion dollars in December. Right. It was nice. But the fact. But the problem was is we. Because it all. We consistently. Every freaking paycheck went and got them multiple things and multiple things. And our. In our. In our closet filled up extremely fast. And it was a lot. And here we are for hours and hours wrapping presents. It was a great Christmas for the children, but it was too much. And every time a child puts a new want on their Christmas list, you go and we went and got it right.

[A]

I can only speak it myself as a kid, and we can all associate it with our own things when we look back to Christmas. But I would probably operate on this. If I had kids, I would operate on my own thing. I don't remember all the little gifts I got for Christmas. What I do remember were the cool, special final gift. I remember getting the first thing, Xbox, when that first came out, and playing that with my dad on the day of Christmas. I have that memory. I remember getting like a castle that I could play with my little action figures. And I remember that. I remember, like these very specific things. And that's what's gonna matter at the end. It's not just the little. It's not about the amount.

[C]

Okay. But I feel that it is my. Our responsibility to create the Christmas magic for the kids, whether it's going to see the Christmas lights, drinking the hot cocoa, caroling.

[A]

Hot cocoa's five bucks.

[C]

Okay. I'm just saying. But it's like all the little things that go into each and every holiday, I put that on my shoulders.

[A]

My first, like 10 Christmases, though, and I don't mean to keep bringing it back to me. I guess I do apparently is was basically poor people Christmas, or at least living on debt. We went and we saw the things and like. But it was all on the cheap. And the cider, you warm it up.

[B]

I. I will tell you, I will say, though, we both do come from, you know, a humble background. Humble background.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Like that, Right? So we both, you know, had it as best as my father could give me and my brothers and sister. You know, he Gave it to me. Yeah, it was a phenomenal time. That much.

[A]

But you know, bougie Christmas isn't required for a nice Christmas.

[B]

But we wanted to give that to our children. We wanted to make sure that our children always had it better than what we came up with.

[A]

Would they know if it's bougie versus if it's just nice? Because to me, cinnamon rolls, fireplace, you know, family together, dogs hanging out. That to me is the nice Christmas. With some Christmas music playing and some gifts to open and seeing each other enjoying it. That to me is the nice Christmas. Not having to go crazy. They don't, they don't recognize like the value dollar of it.

[C]

No, they don't.

[A]

They want the experience. They just want the warmth of Christmas.

[B]

I know, but we went, we went crazy. And then, and then on top of that, you know, we got, you know, the big, the big item you want to talk about, right. That they got the iPad.

[C]

We got a new iPad because their.

[B]

Old iPads were dying. Because they were though, you know, our crappy old iPads.

[A]

Couple things with that. You want them to be iPad kids.

[B]

I don't.

[C]

Just cuz they have iPads doesn't make them iPad kids. Heavily into sports and activities. And they're smart.

[B]

But the problem with that was because we bought them two new iPads.

[A]

IPads or iPad Pros or iPad Airs.

[C]

They got two new iPads.

[A]

IPad. What? School iPad. What?

[C]

Got myself just iPad 10.2 I think it was whatever the newest.

[B]

But they got a new iPad. She got herself a new iPad.

[C]

They had a nicer iPad than me. And I'm in school and I use it every day.

[A]

Is it a competition?

[C]

No, but I was like, why does a 7 year old need a better iPad than me? And I'm literally doing it doesn't.

[A]

And neither do you. I mean neither of you need.

[C]

Well, I need it. I use it.

[A]

But you already had one. It sounds like.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Who cares if theirs is nicer? They just have the newer one.

[C]

Yeah, that's just time.

[A]

That's just a timeline.

[C]

Yeah, I ended up regretting my purchase anyway because I like all the better.

[B]

But that, that's just one example right now. There's other things that are just, you know, from December to now is all the expense expenditures, all the stuff. Right. It sucks. I got it.

[A]

We're talking about now. We're talking about the past. Let's talk about the future. How long does this card take to pay off if we only do our minimum payments without doing purchases? Which we're incapable of.

[B]

Currently.

[A]

You do the minimums, but you purchase three times the minimum monthly. But let's say we stop purchasing and we only do the minimum monthly. How long does this take to pay off?

[C]

Maybe a decade.

[A]

A decade? Years. I don't know.

[B]

Five years?

[A]

Five years.

[B]

Six years. Six years. I'll say.

[A]

Okay, we're just going to do some quick math just. Just for the sake of it. You will be 70 years old.

[C]

He's kind of already physically 70 years old.

[A]

Well, he'll be fully 70.

[C]

Right.

[A]

It takes 32 years.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So last Christmas takes 32 years to pay off.

[C]

Okay. That's a good perspective, actually. Good to hear that.

[B]

I didn't know that. That's not good.

[A]

The minimum monthly ON this is $525.39. Let's go through the purchases on this. The interest is a year, by the way, is already a thousand bucks on this. You've lost $1,000 just on one card.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's keep tally of the interest as we go throughout.

[C]

Oh, that sounds fun.

[A]

63.17 on this one. Okay. It's all bull. Except for two things, which I think was like two university things. You got university docs, college transcripts and gas and then dentists. Other than that, it's all bull. Top down. You see this? It's all bull. MJ La Cantoria. Bath and Body Works. The childrensplace.com. crunchyroll, Apple Bill. Glamour Eyebrows. You break it. Bandera, Texas Nail Double Nails. Okay, we're double interrupting. Oh, no. The first one was lashes, wasn't it? I don't know. MV Y B A childrensplace.com Again, $211.

[C]

Clothes for the kids.

[A]

Okay, we already been through the conversation.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Come on now.

[B]

The MV Y B. That one. Whatever. That. That's the. That's our son's baseball.

[A]

So I'm okay with that. And we'll put that into the budget because I truly believe in that kind of stuff. But flicks? Brew house. That's a movie theater. More flicks. Brewhouse. Apple Bill. Apple Bill. Apple Bill. Apple Bell. Clay casa. Children's place.com. because we have to get a new pair of clothes once a week at a minimum. Maybe five times a week. Who knows? Apple Bell. Apple Bell. Apple Bell. Apple Bell. Botox and beyond.

[C]

I tried Botox for the first time and I think it's nice.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't know if you can afford it.

[B]

We did.

[A]

You didn't even know.

[B]

Well, I told her.

[C]

She came Home with it.

[B]

I was away from my phone at the time, so she didn't have the ability to call me about it. All right. But afterwards, when I got home with it, I was able to look at the stuff. That's when she told me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's crazy.

[B]

And that's a lot of money. That was a lot of money, dude.

[A]

Seven years older than you, but.

[B]

He.

[A]

Looks like 31, and he's never gotten Botox.

[B]

Holy crap.

[C]

He's never heard that in his life, but that's very nice.

[A]

It might be because he's aged into it. Well, maybe he looked old. Maybe he's looked 31 forever. But by the time he cropped 31, you know, other than the little grays, you know, do not smooth skin.

[B]

Well, thank you very much. That's. That's wonderful. I'm gonna write that one down.

[C]

You should.

[A]

Apple bill. Apple bill. What are these Apple bills?

[B]

What are they?

[A]

All right, can we pull up our phones? All of our phones.

[B]

What's it.

[A]

What's on here? We have Facetune. Why an iCloud plus? ICloud Plus is fine. This is your storage. You had some kid things and retake AI face selfie. Oh, come on. You're turning into a Facebook mom where you just have overly filtered Facebook pictures. Come on. Don't do that. Yes.

[B]

I don't like those.

[A]

Yeah, nobody likes those. You're the only one that likes those.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

She did it to me.

[A]

Okay, don't. Don't pay for it, cuz what no one likes. She pays 10 bucks a month for it. What?

[C]

We haven't even gone through all of your. I know, Patreon.

[B]

I just didn't know that was 10 bucks.

[C]

I didn't really realize it was so crappy. Oh, okay. Thank you very much. Oh, sorry.

[A]

Fake names.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

Well, the spending on there was shocker crazy and a lot to go through. Second Avery Federal.

[B]

Does this bring us to you $20,000?

[A]

One, buddy, it is not much better. At least it's not maxed out. It's a couple thousand from that, but it is borderline the same. And again, you only made the minimum payment, but then $936 of spending with $238.63 of interest accruing. Why are we purchasing on a card that is accruing interest that we cannot fully pay off, that we can only make the minimum through payment to because.

[B]

We did not have the money in.

[A]

Our check or debit, but we're financially stable. Am I right, guys? When I turn this page, how much of it is going to be bull versus necessities?

[B]

I'd say half.

[A]

Let's see. So what is going on with this card? It's only been stacking up. Stacking up, stacking up.

[B]

Nothing. This is.

[A]

This also takes 31 years to pay off without purchasing a single thing on it throughout that 31 years. Well, okay, what's your insights into his card, into his spending, into here? Do you ever see what's happening on here?

[C]

We don't see each other's credit card purchases. We only.

[A]

That's where you guys purchase all your.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes, yes, I will admit that in the past, yes, I have definitely used my credit card to purchase things such as my collection and hobbies back in the day. Because we do have. We have fun money. I'll start off with this. We have fun money that we set aside for ourselves, that we can do whatever we want with the money.

[A]

I'm okay with that. When we're out of debt and have a fully funded emergency fund, how much are we setting aside for fun money?

[B]

100 a paycheck. All right.

[A]

What? You guys are spending way more than that. What are we talking about? Well, this is just for paycheck. 200, 400 bucks a month total for the household. But you guys are spending on miscellaneous. Bullshit. We calculated about 7 to $8,000, right? Or no, no, something like. It was something like that.

[B]

Well, you know that the goal.

[A]

We added it 0 times 2 onto it.

[B]

Well, we had our fun money, right? And that was something that we able to use. I. So I'll tell you, the way I worked back, okay. You know, about a year or two years ago, sure was. I would spend all my money on whatever it is I'm collecting, right. However, you know, I memorabilia that I want a couple of hundred thousand dollars, right. And then I'd go, well, if I'm missing 100, 200, I would use the credit card probably, right? Or the Kickstarters that I would back, you know, so that way that I get my whatever I'm backing right down the road. I'm sorry, I know what Kickstarter is. I'm a board game player. We play board games. We're, you know, we're nerds.

[A]

And that's Kickstarter.

[B]

There's a lot of the ones that were coming. They were coming on. They were coming on Kickstarter, but, you know, they cost some money.

[A]

So how often are we doing this?

[B]

It wasn't too often, but it was. It was a lot that was backed up and came out at one time. So there was things like that I would put just on my credit card. Okay. You know, and that's all stopped since then, you know, but now it's more just what are we going to use on it now? Her. Her credit card and my credit card, we don't get. We don't have a. We see, we know what we're buying because, hey, I need you to buy groceries to put it on the green card. Like, that's the stuff we know. Like, oh, I put the groceries on.

[A]

The green card, you know, and the green card.

[B]

Sorry, credit card. Yes, we said we separated by a red and a green card.

[A]

All right. But, but that's when we know we're. Come on.

[B]

Well, that's, that's the problem is, hey, we need to grow groceries or we need gas or we need something. You know, go put it on the green card.

[A]

Color assorted. Just like ra of cards.

[B]

Yeah, well, that's, that's what we was. But as far as the individual, each item, we're not tracking it. We didn't have a way to. Well, we didn't really care to see what it was. We didn't know what was putting on each other's things, you know, unless something just came out and that. That's what it was.

[A]

All right. Obviously, just resources wise, you guys should use the fizz card. It's usually geared towards college and so that actually kind of works for you, but it only lets you spend what's in your checking account. So it works as a debit card. It's a. It's called the fizz card, but it only lets you spend what's in your checking account, so you can't overspend like this. So it works like a debit card, but it still builds credit and you get rewards like a credit card.

[B]

I don't know, I've never heard it.

[A]

We'll get you connected with it if you guys want to use it. I'll also give you three free therapy sessions of sonder minus what the audience gets. It's what I get. If you guys want to talk to a therapist to this, I highly recommend it. And if you want to do anything, this is where I hand out free stuff. Woo. If you ever want to do anything that's not all manual labor in retirement, I'll get you a course career certification. If you want to start looking at like it or anything like that. So whatever you want to do, whatever you guys need, we're happy to connect you. Okay. Well, but before then, let's look at the spending. You said about half. No, about 75%. Bull. Talk about Panda Express, Krispy Kreme, Auntie Anne's. Well, it's all. It's also just horrible. For you, at least. You look like, you know. I mean, you. You stay fit for the military, but my goodness, it's. It's all just bad. Entertainment Hub Chipotle, McDonald's, Little Caesars, M V Y A eBay.com Fling.com.

[C]

Fling.

[B]

Fling.

[A]

That sounds like a no. I don't know what it is.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

Hey, guys always ask me, caleb, what do you invest in? And honestly, I keep it pretty boring. Take a look at this. Take a look at this. This is my investments right here. And this is why you gotta follow me on Blossom if you want to see just that. A couple weeks back, I stumbled upon this social investing app called Blossom and thought, alright, let's give it a try. And it turns out it's actually really cool. Then to be clear, they're not a brokerage. Blossom is a completely free social media platform. They're not your typical investing app. It's social, meaning you can follow exactly what I'm investing in and you can check out my portfolio in real time and even discuss strategies with me and other investors. There's no guessing games, just clear transparency. So if you're curious about how I'm investing or just want to get smarter with your money, download Blossom right now and you can follow me. Kalebhammer. I'll be sharing my exact portfolio breakdown, investing tips, and even responding to your questions. It's totally free, super simple, and way more fun than just guessing stocks alone. So hit that link below, join me on Blossom, and let's grow our money together. Seriously? Right now you can actually see what my portfolio looks like today. It's not $105.

[B]

$105.

[C]

Oh, Flingcon. I remember. That's a board game convention.

[B]

Board game convention.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

It's the opposite of getting.

[B]

Okay. Oh, God. Oh, my God. That was funny. But no. Yes, it was. There's a. There's a convention coming up for the board games that we're looking at. Yes, I purchased. I purchased a little. I purchased the tickets now. Right. It's coming in in July, so I was able to get them. All right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Yes.

[A]

And then Schlotsky's.

[B]

Thank you, babe.

[C]

You're welcome.

[B]

That's a good place.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you guys got to eat a lot.

[C]

Yeah, we.

[B]

We do.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because we're not Always together all the time.

[A]

So we'll take one Sammy's Sandwiches at home.

[B]

Well, we don't. We also. We're lazy.

[A]

We don't need to be together for that. I'm lazy. Okay. But we either get to choose lazy or financial security. In terms of this case, if you guys want to be lazy, totally chill with it. And we can just like. I'll be like, okay, go on your way. You can live the lazy lifestyle. I'm okay with it. I will even support it. Because if you. I want to support. Support however you want to live life, it will end in disaster. No Funded emergency fund, you know, potential foreclosure notices. It'll be. You can live that. We can choose lazy.

[B]

No.

[A]

Or we can choose financial security. Actually grinding down, bringing some discipline to this.

[B]

I agree right with this. For the fact of the matter is like, we didn't. We didn't do that stuff, right?

[A]

Chicken salad sandwiches, so cheap, so easy.

[B]

Now we're at the point where we are doing a lot more eating and hopefully home by. By meal planning. She's come up with a great way, I hope.

[A]

But I mean, I have the most recent spending statements. How much do we think we spent on fast food in the last month?

[B]

Oh, $800. I'm just giving you a rage ton of money.

[A]

800.

[B]

Ridiculous amount of money.

[C]

Probably way too much.

[B]

A lot more than we spent.

[A]

What do you think? What do you think in one month?

[B]

I would say about 400 bucks.

[C]

Because groceries every week is 3 to 400.

[B]

I would say for.

[C]

And then we also eat out.

[A]

400.

[B]

Fast food. 400 bucks.

[A]

What do you think?

[C]

Yeah, I'd say about 1200.

[B]

What, for food? For no. For no.

[A]

Going out to eating out?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, I would say that.

[A]

400, 1200.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Where is the difference here? Do you just, like, not know her spending or she thinks you spend maybe.

[B]

I don't know how much we're eating out. I know we're eating out a lot. I just don't know what the price looks like.

[A]

How is that? How are we so separated? Because that's actually kind of concerning. It's not that. Oh, you don't know the number. My concern here is that we are so far apart on what we think is happening that how can we ever budget as a household? So how. How is there so much separation here in terms of what you think is going out to eat spending?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Well, because every time we go out to eat, it's between like 40 and $100. So I'm just thinking if you're going out multiple times a week, it adds up really quickly. So in one week, I bet we would spend 400 on going out to eat.

[A]

Is that not insane?

[B]

Oh, got it. Not.

[C]

I mean, it's not good.

[B]

So she might be. She might be right on that one. I'll give you that. That I'm probably way lower. I don't know.

[C]

What is it?

[A]

I think 8.1542.74.

[C]

I win. But at what cost?

[A]

Yeah, at the cost of being able to make three minimum payments on one of these Navy Federals.

[B]

That's a lot. Yeah.

[A]

Interest charged on here this year so far. Let's add it to the tally. $9,013.59.

[B]

What was that? That was the interest.

[A]

It's the interest that is accrued this year so far in this. So we're at approximately $2,000 for just two cards. We looked at that. You guys have lost this year so far.

[B]

900. I heard 9,000. Okay.

[A]

I may have accidentally said that.

[B]

$900.

[A]

900. 1359.

[B]

All right. Okay.

[A]

Which is insane.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean, I'm being told. You guys also told Lindsey beforehand that, like, the kids are picky eaters, so eating out is easier for them. I mean, it is like.

[B]

It is. We, again, we went lazy. We went lazy.

[C]

But I do really think that this.

[A]

Is a change that's just gonna fully enable that forever.

[C]

No, but I think this is a change we can make to buy groceries and cook more at home.

[A]

It certainly could be, but we spent fifteen hundred dollars last month, even though you said we're already making changes.

[C]

No, the changes only started within the last couple weeks.

[A]

That's what always happens before people come on the show. They're like, I'm going on the finance show, so I'm gonna look good for a second. And then they maintain it for like a month. And then so it's like, if you guys actually stick with it, the median guest on the show pays off 10,000 in 10 months. And you guys have a better income situation than most people in this country. Most people on the show. So you guys can rock this. If we actually discipline, obviously, we'll get you the cookbook. Is this. Well, you don't even need the budget friendly meals. That's just for people that play. Because make the median. You could double that. Your grocery spending allotment can be great. Like, I don't know.

[C]

I would like the cookbook.

[A]

Well, I'll. We'll get you a cookbook.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

We're having some weird printing issues with China right now because you know everything going on, but yeah, we'll get it to you. Okay. And other than Navy Federal, what the. What even? Oh, this looks like maybe a car. It's a $38,309.40.

[C]

Oh, that's a home equity loan at 7.45%.

[A]

What is it? That's barely even keeping up with the.

[C]

Market debt consolidation we took out in 2023.

[B]

We did. We took that out, paid off all the credit card debts and stuff we had. Obviously not the vehicles and the house, but we used that to pay it off. And then we just did. We didn't change our life at that moment when we paid it all off. It was nice. It was great. But we did not change any of our lifestyle at that moment for moving forward with it. So here we are now, even back up to what we were when we had that consolidation.

[A]

And the house, do we even know what it's worth today?

[C]

Three hundred seventeen hundred thousand.

[B]

We do.

[A]

How are we so on the dollar?

[C]

Well, when we pulled the statements, it gave us the home value at the bottom.

[A]

When was that?

[C]

That was about a couple weeks ago. So it's got about a check, 100,000 in home equity, but with the loan, I only consider it like 66 or 60.

[A]

And this means all the debt we're looking at today is only a year and a half old.

[C]

Yeah, sort of.

[A]

Yeah. That's insane. You know, we've talked about $44,000 of credit cards so far, and we're not even halfway through.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't even know if we're a third of the way through. I don't think we are. And they're saying that your cards are completely paid off after you took out this. Guys. That's insane. That's insane. That's not a that. Okay. Even more than before, I'm extra convinced that this is not sustainable, because I don't think this is sustainable for just another nine months. I think we're there. We're basically at the peak. This home equity was just. That's crazy. Okay, so this was. We have a balance of $38,309.40. Okay. And it is a minimum monthly payment of 504.56 interest this year so far, $967.70. We're at about 3,000 hours gone from you guys.

[B]

Guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

These numbers are going to require that I take a tum.

[C]

Okay. It's good for your health.

[A]

Is it? I don't know, stress. Stress of your debt.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

You guys didn't even have car payments at the time of taking out that loan.

[B]

We did.

[A]

No, we did.

[B]

We did. We didn't put any of the money towards the cards because it went to all the other stuff.

[A]

So did you have car payments?

[B]

Yes, we did.

[C]

Okay. We each have a car as we asked. I think so.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had. We had car payments at that time.

[A]

A Chase Amazon card. Oh, for sake. Here we go.

[B]

No, that was me. So we live right next to a. A distribution center.

[C]

You can like practically see it from our backyard.

[B]

We can see it. And honestly, when we need something, we order it. Right?

[C]

It comes right away.

[A]

What's right away?

[C]

Like within like less than a day.

[B]

I can order something right now if I really want. And if it's something that's a popular thing or very quick to do, I can have it by tonight.

[A]

Yeah, us too. Normally.

[B]

And going to. Driving away and going to a Walmart.

[A]

Same day delivery is how Amazon works for most things for major cities.

[B]

Yeah, well, we use it.

[A]

I don't think it's because you live next to a distribution. It's because you have a distribution center in the city you live in.

[B]

We. We use it a lot. We use that ability to buy a lot of things from Amazon, which gives.

[A]

Us the honestly, again, click, click, click, click, click. The amount of resistance that there is, the friction between purchasing something on Amazon is so low that it's just probably getting you guys, especially using the logic that you use of the distribution center. Even though that's just like what we all do in major cities. It's like that's just making you spend more than you even would, if we're being honest. 408. Only the minimum payment made, of course. New balance $3,292.27. $63.22 of interest accruing. $406.87 of purchases and a $96 minimum payment. Now it's gone up because the balance went up. Do you guys share the same Amazon Prime?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, someone pull it up for me, please, because it's Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon 200. We've had a late fee this year. Oh. Oh, for sake. Neither of us even know this.

[C]

For which one?

[A]

Amazon card?

[B]

This was before the automated payments.

[A]

Why weren't automatic payments happening?

[B]

We did not set it up when we first got the card or during the setting of the card. We were just going through our Excel spreadsheet going to there. Logging into the account, paying it off. There was a point when. Yeah, I do remember that. We just didn't set it up. All right. After that situation. We paid it. We paid the late fee. We did pay the late fee and then we got back onto the the track of paying in the minimum payments and then we did set up the automatic payment for it. So that is now on an automatic payment. But we just didn't do it back then.

[A]

Oh, sake. Okay, we have. I don't even know what the this is.

[B]

I know stakes.

[A]

Stakes for outcome piece. Green artificial. Yeah stakes.

[B]

We have dogs that are digging and stuff like that. So we bought some. Some fake turf to hide the mud area.

[A]

So zone protects. No hole digging. I see. Valve box thing. More cover things. Magnet door anchor anchor. Gym door anchor.

[B]

Stuff for the home.

[A]

Anti fog cleaning kit. Plastic drop cloths. I feel like guys, why recognize this kind of Amazon. And I think we've all been there here and there. This is the go buy anything bull Amazon. This is the f Cking. I need this. I need this.

[B]

I need this.

[A]

This is the all within a few days easy car seat buckle. It's like we need everything. Throat drops fit. Simply resistant loop sharps container. Gymnastics bar there. That is sticky card plug. Sticky card plug refill. I don't know. Oh, it's the fly thing. Yeah, fly traps, salt and pepper. More artificial turf stuff. So we're really booking that up. Penguins for kids. Penguins in Antarctica.

[C]

My son had a original stuff that.

[B]

Was a school project.

[A]

Penguins. National Geographic. Go to the library. It's a good experience for kids, isn't it?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Penguins. The ultimate guide. So we're just buying all these penguins books permanently.

[B]

But now we know about penguins now, thank God. Lots of information about penguins and our son.

[A]

180 pocket card binders. Explore my world. Penguins. Pavlon two pack dance ribbons. Novelty play. 10 piece dance gymnastic thing. There's more turf stuff and gymnastics shirt and 12 piece. Do we understand our spending here, guys? Even if. Yes, I can see see a lot of this being justified. It's just look at the number that is adding up. And if we're going through it in, in your gut how many of these things are like. We're like, okay, if we didn't purchase that, it's not the end of the world.

[B]

There's going to be probably a handful. Yes, I will agree with yes.

[A]

Shiny metallic, you know things.

[B]

A lot of it. Yes, I will hard binder stand up for a lot of their stuff that we had bought because it's what we needed and stuff like that.

[A]

Yes. But I'm okay with that.

[B]

But there's some stuff that probably, probably yes. We probably didn't need to get.

[A]

I can.

[B]

It was logically. It was a good one.

[A]

I can logically see a lot of purchases here.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I know for a fact as we go through there, whether or not if we like look back and we're like, okay, I could have lived without it. There was a lot of it. Because all I know is we've lost $229.11 in interest this year so far in this card. That a late payment on this card. The balance is only going up. The minimum payment's only going up. We are losing more and more and more. And our minimum payments are getting to a place where if you want to continue your lifestyle with these minimum payments, mathematically it's impossible.

[B]

Again, we both have the access to that. We both can do exactly what. Buy what we want at the moment that I want to buy it.

[A]

23% interest rate. The things that you're buying. So that's. You're paying an extra 23% fee on everything you're getting. Honestly, if you want to look at.

[B]

It that way, I didn't make sense now, but I didn't think about that way.

[A]

This is more Amazon purchases and stuff. This is. It's brutal. And you're probably. You're getting a 5% cash back, but you're paying 23%. So it's like it's not worth it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're losing 17. This is priorities at that point.

[B]

You know, all priorities are all messed. Yeah, well, I don't.

[C]

I don't agree with that, but.

[A]

Go on.

[C]

I don't think my priorities are personally. We mean financially or financially.

[B]

I am not talking about the way personally or family wise together. I'm literally just talking about financially. Financially. We are. Financially. We have not been doing it. We have not been.

[C]

No, I don't think financially working.

[B]

That's all we're talking about.

[C]

It's so fast fixable, though. Literally. You just have to make life changes. I know, but we didn't.

[B]

We didn't make the fixes.

[C]

But we can't.

[A]

We didn't make the changes.

[C]

I feel like financially we can now is having no money coming in and all the money coming out.

[A]

All the money's going out. Plus 24.

[C]

Okay, well, that's true.

[A]

Financially is. Okay, listen, again, higher income people can get to a worse place because on paper you can qualify for more Debt. Getting yourself in a worse hole than.

[B]

A lot of people have done. Because that's where we got the Amazon card. That's where we got the other credit cards. You know, the rooms to go, which we bought furniture with. You know, like, if you say it's.

[A]

So easy to get out of debt, why haven't we. Why? Last time we get out of debt, we had to take equity from our home. If it's so easy, then why are we here?

[C]

Okay. I didn't say it was easy. I don't think.

[A]

Did she.

[C]

I said it was fixable.

[A]

She said fixable. Okay. If it's fixable, then why haven't you. You. We do get that nail and hammer.

[B]

We didn't change our lifestyle.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's a lifestyle issue.

[A]

It certainly is. But if it's fixable, why aren't we fixing?

[C]

I think we just needed to both want to fix it. And I think we're finally at the place where we both want to fix. I don't think you actually want to experience things because you would experience it if you wanted to experience things. I don't know what you're talking about.

[A]

I certainly hope so. The synchrony card, is it Go on.

[B]

No, I'm sorry.

[A]

The synchrony card is at $3,436.70 with a minimum payment of $185. What's going on with this card?

[B]

Which one is that one?

[C]

This Furniture.

[A]

Synchrony.

[B]

Oh, furniture. Furniture. So I had a surgery last year. All right. Situation on my shoulder. So one of the things was recommended was getting a recliner because his arm.

[C]

Was in a sling.

[B]

Sling. So, hey, find a recliner you can sleep in, right? We don't have recliners. We have couch and, you know, the bed and stuff like that. So when it happens. And bought that. We also renovated our daughter's bedroom. We've done a lot.

[C]

She was a toddler.

[B]

We've done a lot of renovation to our house.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Over the years.

[A]

But if you cash flow, I'm okay with it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But we're debt flowing.

[B]

We didn't. And with rooms. With rooms to go. Specifically, we paid for her big girl furniture. Yeah. Her entire bedroom set of everything that she needed for the big girl stuff. So that was another conclusion. The recliner. And that's it. That was it. Yeah. Now, I will say, looking back at it now, the recliner was a lot of money. Yes. The recliner is a great chair. I ain't gonna lie. The chair is phenomenal. It's massaging. It goes back. It's electronically. It's amazing. Could we have gone with a smaller one and a cheaper one? Maybe. But at that. I'll tell you right now, my mindset was set on that. That, that recliner. And she did. I do think she did show me another recliner that was cheaper, but I didn't like it.

[A]

The thing is, you're in an income situation where you should just be able to get that, but you're living a life around it that makes those purchases detrimental.

[B]

Well, that's what we did.

[C]

I think the interest rate is the highest on this one than all the others.

[A]

No, the interest rate's zero. And see, we don't even know.

[C]

I thought it was 35%. No, it's zero on the furniture.

[A]

Yes. Dude. The thing is, it is right now zero for the vast majority. It's at zero percent until payday.

[B]

If we don't pay it off. Off. If we don't pay it off, then that's what it's. That's what. That's what we're talking about.

[A]

Well, for. For 629, whatever that purchase was, that expires in about a year. The interest free period, the $2,713 and $92 that. Those ones never expire. Those ones are until paid off. Which as long as you make your minimum payment. 0. 0, it'll probably bump up to like 30%. Sure. That 629.

[B]

I guess we gotta pay that off.

[A]

Yeah, but your minimum payment is just another addition to the stack. It's $185.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And we have in the note, I mean, I don't know if you were there for this part of the call, but she specifically said to Lindsey that you milked your recovery.

[B]

Oh, I did.

[C]

He did. And he'll admit it.

[B]

I will admit it. I milked it. I took the surgery everything I could with it. Right. I made sure I relaxed. I made sure I was, you know.

[A]

How you doing health wise?

[B]

Take it easy. I'm doing as good as I can. For somebody who's about to retire.

[C]

No, he is literally break. Okay, I will say he milked that, but in general, his whole body is breaking. Do not let this man fool you. Constant back pain, constant shoulder. But he actually, I think needs another shoulder surgery.

[B]

Again, they're covered by the military. Yeah, that's nice. Great. It's wonderful. But again, my body. My body is breaking.

[C]

I mean, he's been wearing the duty belt for over 20 years and standing watch.

[A]

Why do you want to go Go, go so long past the three years.

[B]

Three years.

[A]

Because you've served for a decade, right?

[B]

Okay, I'm at 20 years now. So why did I want to go so long?

[A]

Yes, 30 years. 20 years. Why, why have we decided to go so long? Especially with, you know, starting the feeling of needing surgery and all this stuff? All right, let's be honest. Making videos sounds really fun until you actually try to make one. Suddenly you're wrestling with timelines, video editing platforms, searching for royalty free music that doesn't suck, and trying to sound like Morgan Freeman on your voiceover. And that's why I'm hyped about today's video sponsor. In video AI, it puts you in the director's chair without needing a whole production crew or a film degree. In video AI is the only tool out there that lets you generate full length videos. With generative AI, you just type in what you want to make a video about and it does the rest. Like literally scripts, scenes, edits, all done in minutes. I tried it out and it was crazy. I asked it to make a video about what would happen to humanity if the dinosaur returned. And minutes later I'm watching what looks like a movie trailer. And I didn't lift a single camera or rent a GoPro.

[C]

I'm Dr. Eliza Stern and I I never thought I'd see this day. For millions of years we've ruled this planet, shaped it to our will. But nature has a way of reminding us of our place.

[A]

It's wild. And here's the kicker. I wanted it a little more intense. So I just typed make the video more intense and add my voice and boom, it was done. Making video edits has never been easier. With 10 million users across 150 countries, this thing is already exploding. And the best part, you can try it for free and save yourself hundreds in production costs. Check the link in the description or scan the QR code on screen to get started today. Let's get back to the episode. Unless you're alerting the future of humanity with AI like I just did. Yeah, it's like you're pushing yourself physically.

[B]

Join the Navy just to get out of the house. Right. My dad was, was an army guy, right. So he did 10. I want to do more than him. At about that 10 year mark is. Well, you know when, when we got together and at that time I wanted to get out. Probably my entire career, probably every single reenlistment, I wanted to get out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I just stayed because of whatever. Hey, I need to, I'm gonna Stay for a little bit longer. I can do it for a little longer. And then we got together. She was in the military, I was in military. We stayed together. We got to that point. We're now, you know, okay, 14 years now. Okay, great. What are we gonna do to do? We're gonna stay in. She got out. I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'm in it for the long. Well, yeah, at that point in time, I was in until I retired. All right, now I'm done. I'm done. I'm. I'm. I am.

[A]

How often are you away from the house? Like, deployed?

[B]

Not away from the house anymore. I did go away for a whole year, year and a half. A year and a half to Poland. They. I got stationed in Poland for the year and a half, and that was about 21, 20. 21, 2022. So I was gone there. So when I came back, back in 2022, the end of 2022, that's when, you know, all the stuff. You know, we started buying the cars and the stuff like that, renovations of the house, things like that. So, yeah, so that was the last time I was gone for the longest. Since then, I'm not going to be gone except for, you know, are you.

[A]

Going to do anything afterwards? What do you want to do? You don't have to, of course.

[B]

No, I don't have a. I don't have a drive anymore or a desire of. What I want to do after the military. What I want to do is support her now because she's been supporting me and doing. And moving with me. So for her PA program, whatever. Whatever program she gets accepted into, obviously we're gonna have to move to or stay here in San Antonio, hopefully. So if we end up moving, then I will find a job in that area for something I want to do.

[A]

You have a YouTube channel?

[B]

I do have a YouTube channel that I would like to join, but it's not. It takes a while.

[A]

What do you do? Yeah, it's brutal.

[B]

I play board games.

[A]

Oh, I love it.

[B]

I play board games, which I will tell you, a lot of my money also went into my setup, you know, so I understand the system and how it goes.

[A]

Bad way to do it.

[B]

Well, that's what I did. And it's in my extra bedroom, so, you know, I'm okay with that.

[A]

The people that throw all the money in up front, just start with the phone.

[B]

I learned the lesson the hard way. I tried my stuff. I'm. You know, I was just.

[A]

At least you had the budget to do it.

[B]

Well, at the time, probably, but obviously now, looking back, I didn't. So, yeah, I have the YouTube. That'd be nice to do, but I ain't gonna be. That ain't gonna be a career. That's not gonna be something I can make money in.

[A]

I know they're very generic, but I'm a big Risk. And Monopoly and Catan, man, we like.

[B]

Katan is on there.

[A]

No one will play Risk with me because everyone hates it. Same with Monopoly, But I love Catan is great. Okay, I have a Wells Fargo card. What's going on with this? This one looks like this is a zero percent as well.

[B]

Yes. So that one, our last. Was it last year or the.

[C]

It was last summer.

[B]

Last summer, in the middle of the hot heat, our AC completely broke and went. Went to. And that was literally eight months after the.

[A]

Why wouldn't you guys have an emergency fund, though? You guys do so well.

[B]

Well, we didn't. So here we are, you know, literally eight months after the warranty went away, which we didn't know that there was an extension or anything we could have done. Right. So it went away. And they're like, oh, yeah, you're eight months past, so you can't do anything about it. So we had to buy a whole new one right in the middle of the hot hit summer. Found the. She found. And she did all the work on this one. She found Wells Fargo, who was able to give us a good deal on that. That as best as possible.

[C]

Zero percent with zero percent.

[A]

Because after 72 months. But you're not making the payments necessary to pay this off in 72 months. The minimum payments are too small for that.

[C]

I think it. As long as we continue to pay toward it, we won't ever have an interest rate on it. I think if you. If we missed a payment or something like that.

[A]

Yeah, that might. Yeah, if you. You'll get a penalty if you miss a payment.

[C]

Yeah, it'll be really high interest rate.

[A]

And of course, we missed the payment on the Amazon card, so it's just like, historically looking. It makes me a little nervous.

[B]

That is one of the ones that's on our radar, that is make sure we always pay this one to, you know, first. You know, so that is something of our knowledge.

[A]

Minimum payment, $67.42. Five years to pay off. So we're going to have a minimum payment for five years. It's not a huge minimum payment, but it's stacking across everything. Of course, that is five years to not have one up in that up, by the way, it can be not you guys forgetting does you want to have it on auto, but accidentally having less than $67 in your checking account, then the payment bounces, then boom, f ked.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And we know we get down to 100 often, so this is not risk free for 5 years.

[C]

True.

[A]

I don't want us to think that this is just boom, set, done.

[B]

No, I didn't. I didn't think about that way. That. That's true. Okay. I didn't think about that way. That's. That's a good way to. Because I would not have thought about that until it happened. So.

[A]

And if that does hit, we're looking at 29% interest on that.

[B]

All right.

[A]

It's brutal.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Cherry. What's cherry?

[C]

That's just a medical cost.

[A]

Okay. So something that wasn't covered by the military.

[C]

Right.

[A]

We're looking at $3263 minimum monthly payment, $251. Okay. No interest. Okay. Just add it to the minimum payment pile, right?

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Cars. Here we are, we have a Ford Escape 2023 at a 7.39% interest rate. So, you know, especially taking into account depreciation, certainly not keeping up that, you know, money in like a marketplace. So you're losing money overall.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so Ford escape, we owe $25,056.15 with a minimum monthly payment of $606.68. That's a brutal minimum monthly payment and not a great interest rate. It's not like a minimum payment until it's paid off type of interest rate. Wish I could see how much went to interest and how much is charged interest this year so far to add it to the pile, but I don't think I'm gonna get that. Okay, so what do you think it's worth?

[C]

I think it's worth around 22,000.

[A]

I'm seeing actually 27.

[C]

Oh, great.

[B]

Well, that's nice.

[A]

A rare case where it had value a little bit. Have you thrown in. How much did you put down on it?

[C]

We did a trade in value. I had a Nissan Rogue 2017.

[A]

So that's probably why. That's why it's allowed you to keep.

[B]

Keep it.

[A]

We'll.

[B]

We'll point out, though, I'm going to tell you that at that time, when we bought that car, her Rogue, at that moment, the entire. Yeah, we always paid off, but the entire AC in it during the summer time frame broke.

[A]

That's a relatively okay fix, though.

[B]

Well, we decided at the moment okay, we're going to trade it in, right. Because we've got some value on it and we'll get her a brand new car that we won't have to worry about this come next summer and next summer and next summer. So we went ahead and bought that purchase. Right.

[C]

And I had never had a new car.

[B]

She's never had a new car.

[C]

I've always had like beaters or things that I could pay in cash.

[A]

But there is a separation.

[B]

There's.

[A]

There's a middle ground.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We can get a $15,000 used car and it's okay.

[B]

Well, no, again, first time she's had a car that wasn't a beater or a used car or something. So we went and we, I got, we splurged. We, we, we obviously.

[A]

But it's because you guys are willing to splurge in everything you do in life. That and cars are not a fucking cheap thing to splurge on.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You see that now? Hindsight.

[A]

Yeah. But I still, like, I don't care if, like we come from, you know, beating up cars. Math is. Math is. Math is math. It's not a feeling thing. Whether or not we get a brand new car, I'd suggest until we fully get out of debt, which, for what it's worth, a year and a half ago, when you got this car, you were kind of out of debt. But this kind of put us back into debt again. So it's like, it's. This is, it's a weird situation.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. And it just adds an intense minimum monthly payment. Yeah, my monthly payments.

[C]

Bad. Can't wait for you to see his truck.

[A]

I can calculate, ish, kind of how much has gone to interest this year so far. Oh, his truck. Great. Yeah. To lug around all your, I don't know, Predator drones. I don't know. What do you need?

[B]

We use it this week for trees, branches. We it call. But so actually the truck is.

[A]

Yeah, but you could have rented a truck for that one time thing.

[B]

Yeah, but you never know when you're going to need something. So the truck is coming in and.

[A]

You can rent a car.

[B]

The truck is coming in like that. It was nice. And we're in Texas. I'm saying we're in Texas. All right. If you don't have a truck, you're wrong.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. If you don't have a minimum payment that you can't afford in a car that you just use to hold groceries. Yeah, I'd rather have a car that goes fast.

[B]

Well, I don't.

[C]

Well, you don't have kids yet either.

[B]

I like to have.

[A]

It's true. You're right. But mine fits more people anyway. And it goes faster and it's smoother.

[B]

Mine's nice on the highway.

[C]

What do you drive?

[A]

Tesla Model X. Oh.

[B]

Oh, that's nice. Can't get a cyber truck.

[A]

It also drives for me.

[B]

I'd buy you cyber truck.

[A]

Too small on the inside.

[B]

See, that's why I bought a Ford.

[A]

Yeah, well, it's about as small as a Ford in the inside. Still too small for me.

[B]

It's a nice truck.

[A]

Okay, well, you've lost 4, 262 dollars in interest this year so far. For me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Or for the. For this car. For your car, yeah. Okay, so our grocery hauler, the truck. Oh, good. A minimum payment of $1,229 to go to a military base. What the are we doing? This is insane. Come on, guys, this is crazy.

[B]

I just got back from overseas. We only had the one car. I needed to get something cool.

[A]

Get a car, get an suv, I don't care, it doesn't matter. Get a used truck even.

[B]

It doesn't matter. I got back. We did go look at trucks and stuff like that, the used ones, Carmax, things like that. Nothing was catching my eye. We went to Ford. Well, we cared at that time, obviously. This is a great truck. It's a brand new truck. It was the first time I just got back, I needed something immediately. Right. We got it. And look at the interest rate on that is extremely low.

[C]

1.9.

[B]

1.9 interest. So we took the opportunity.

[A]

How much did you put down?

[B]

I don't remember off the top of my head.

[C]

I don't know. Maybe a couple thousand.

[B]

Yeah, it's appreciated.

[A]

About a thousand dollars? Well, no, no more than that. But you're underwater by a thousand. It's not crazy.

[B]

But we did, we did put some down. I don't remember what the price was, but again, I got back, I got the vehicle really quickly and we actually needed it immediately as soon as we did it. Because we were going, you know, traveling something and it worked out phenomenal. And we drive a lot.

[A]

Did you. But again, like when I need a big truck, I rent it and it doesn't cost me $1,229 a month on going forever. I'm okay with the interest rate. However, the value, this is going to go down substantially further, quicker, you know, especially we get closer and closer to a normal car market. This is.

[B]

Okay, well, That's a nice start.

[A]

Okay, great. I'd prefer financial stability, personally. I don't know, maybe it's just a preference thing. Okay, you disagree?

[B]

No, I. I'm not disagreeing. I'm just. It's in the past. It's already happened.

[A]

Yeah, but you can sell it right now and I would.

[C]

I don't see that happening.

[A]

Yeah, well, there's. This is what we talk about, sacrifice.

[C]

I would sell it and get like what, like a used meter?

[A]

Yeah. A 20,000 hour truck will still be good. It doesn't need to be the pretty truck that all the guys jerk off to at the stoplight. It doesn't matter who gives a F. If we're talking utility because that's what you've bragged about it being used for. Then be a real man and just get a truck for the utility. And not to goon to.

[B]

I'll look into it. I mean, I look into it.

[A]

Guys, we can cut our debt and minimum payments like crazy by you selling your car because you have an equity position. You selling your car and we can borrow the difference or even just trade it in. You get a $20,000 car, you get a 15,000 car. Great. We've just cut this part of the debt substantially, which is a substantial part of our debt.

[C]

Maybe.

[A]

Guys, it is so worth it mathematically. And this is just. We're just talking sacrifice for the sake of house. If we want to do more things for the kids.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Sacrifice the car. Like, come on. $20,000 is not gonna be a bad car. This is gonna have some miles on it. Might have like five year outdated internal screens. It's not bad.

[B]

Never thought about that. We can take a look at that and see if that's something that happens.

[C]

Yeah, we can look at it.

[A]

Please do. Because 1,229. That's a disgusting minimum monthly payment. Even at the interest rate. Actually, if you take into account the interest rate, that's a disgusting minimum payment. Cause that's. With a low rate. The truck is taking 11% of our income on a monthly basis. 11% is just so it can sit in the driveway the majority of its life.

[B]

We'll take a look at it.

[C]

We'll look at it.

[B]

And that's not a. Push it off the side.

[A]

That's a. I hope so.

[B]

We'll legitimately take a look at that and see.

[A]

I really do hope so. It's more the minimum payment that terrifies me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Just imagine what that could be doing towards our future. Towards whatever. Towards. I mean, I had A note that I kind of read at some point towards the beginning that said you guys want to go to Disney. That could cash flow us to Disney pretty quick.

[B]

That is the goal is we want to get to stabilize. So that way we do have family trips once a year priorities.

[A]

Where's truck or Disney? Which one's more important? If you had to pick right now, truck or Disney?

[B]

I mean a family mature trip would be. Right. Wonderful.

[A]

Then let's do that because this can cash flow Disney trip in, you know, a few months.

[B]

Never even thought about that. Honestly. That's. And that again, that's why we're here. Because we're not the experts. We're the experts of.

[C]

I was like where are you going with that sentence?

[B]

We're the experts of not being experted.

[A]

So we have a mortgage. 2,200 13,000. Yep. 77. Love the rate. 2.75.

[B]

Wonderful. We financed it. Yeah.

[A]

Home equity, a lot of 7.5.

[B]

Yeah. Well that too.

[A]

Minimum payment 1,290. Of course now we add the additional monthly payment of 504 equity. But yeah. And then of course we have nothing to show for it because all the debt is racked back up.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Oh wait. Actually let me get back to that Truck. I know it's a bit. I want to get this interest.

[B]

Sure. I'm curious too.

[A]

This one's lower. Of course we know the interest and vast majority is going to principal zero. So far we are talking. Well because the balance is so big. $262.80.

[B]

All right.

[A]

It's good to know mortgage. So. Yep. Okay, let's see what is going to interest. Let's add it to the interest column. Interest on this so far, $1,953.20 this year.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We are expected of course in a 30 year loan to have more interest hit up front. Same with cars and everything earlier in the loan. More is going to go to interest than principal.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Is that all your debt?

[C]

I think so, yeah.

[B]

Debt, I believe. Yeah. I don't think going through that's what we all able to calculate put together.

[A]

So okay, this year so far, 5752 $2.48 has been taken from your hands in just interest because you guys are holding the debt. Sounds like a pretty good chunk of a Disney trip if I've ever heard.

[C]

So would another home equity debt consolidation be something to look at or. Absolutely not.

[A]

Why the would we. If our behavior was not fixed last time and we're back into this position, we add another debt Again, double that debt from last time, then boom, get in this position again. Do we just keep doing that?

[B]

No. That's the question I have.

[A]

Are you only allowing consolidation and. Or bankruptcy even?

[B]

No.

[A]

Well, either way, those are applicable if you can prove you've changed your behavior for at least six months. If you stick to a hardcore budget, you are paying off debt, you are going intense cooking from home, cutting back on the bull for six months, and you've proven you can do that, then I will allow it. And if you do it for a month, that doesn't count. You can do anything for a month.

[B]

And then fall back. I think that is a true statement.

[A]

But I would definitely get.

[B]

That's a true statement.

[A]

And the definitely sell the cars for sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Downsize the cars. Just not going to get bad cars checking out.

[C]

Okay, I will look at it.

[A]

Checking it. $1,834 saving 645 savings. Yeah. Apple YouTube membership better be ours. It's not. You're not a fan. We have the best YouTube membership on the entire platform. You know the platform told us that.

[C]

They tell everybody that.

[A]

No, they tell us that because we're in the top program and they have the insights to everything.

[C]

Okay, good.

[A]

Well, I would share more, but I'm under an NDA. But no, they do not tell everybody that. We offer more content than any other YouTube membership. Patreon.

[B]

That's me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's the YouTube membership.

[C]

Super Carly Brothers.

[B]

Yeah, I think.

[A]

Well, I think. Okay.

[C]

I don't know if you've ever heard of them.

[A]

Apple Bill. Apple Bill. Apple Bill. Marble slab Seas, Candles. Venmo. Papa John's.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And other. You break fix. Like, do we go there like breaking.

[C]

No, we got our kids ipods.

[A]

Oh, good. IPads weren't enough.

[C]

Well, it's because they're on the bus and they. My daughter. My daughter was getting bullied and I thought it might help to have headphones on and just listen to music and zone out. And then like when we got them off ebay, the battery was really, really horrible. We had to get it replaced.

[A]

Where'd you get an iPad? On ebay?

[C]

On ebay. They don't make them anymore.

[A]

I thought they came out with like one a couple years ago.

[C]

No, there's no more ipods. It's only iPhones.

[B]

So we will watch other young for phones. Why can't get a phone?

[C]

Yeah, they're too little.

[B]

Figure something that they can have for music. Music to help my daughter and my son just on the bus night. To and from work. School. Sorry. To and from school.

[A]

They don't have phones yet.

[C]

They've got no phones.

[B]

No. But the ipods they have have. Is the ability to listen to the stuff, to stay away from, you know, just issues on the bus. Right. To keep them distracted, to get them to point A, to point B, point A to. Without you know, being part of, you know, the issue that they were having on the bus.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So kind of sucks.

[A]

Grade school kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Kids are mean.

[B]

Yep. You call the. Yeah.

[A]

2019, an iPod pod came out. Oh, wait.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's about. Yeah, that's right. And that's.

[C]

I think the latest one is the seventh generation.

[B]

But it still cost the high price that you would think it would not be. But they came back. We had to get the new batteries just so they wouldn't die.

[A]

And then PayPal transfer. PayPal transfer. Broadway Nation. More Broadway Nation. Barnes and Noble. Smoothie King. You guys just go out all the time. Get cash App Coles.

[B]

Steam games. El Tequila. Yeah.

[A]

Red Robin. McDonald's. Etsy World Market. PlayStation Network. PlayStation Something. Steam Games. Victoria's Secret. It's just. We're just blowing money and not all that's on kids.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

We're also spoiling ourselves. Oh, it keeps going. I keep thinking it's done. Steam Bull. MJ Lock. M V Y B A M V.

[B]

Y B A Softball for the sun.

[A]

Free Spirits. Venmoing out money. KFC Cook Unity Inc. Just cook. Just cook. Just cook. Okay. I do a factor sponsorship here and there and it's great for people that can budget in, don't have debt, don't have a fully funded emergency or who have a fully funded emergency fund. 47 brand. The baseball thing. Apple Huff Gold. Then we're not money. Sonic Drive Inventory. Not money. Amazon. Apple bill. Texas Roadhouse. EBay. Commerce. Oh my. What are we doing? This is so much. This is so stupid. Much. Game Toppers. Cherry Technology. Amazon. Well, that's just a minimum payment. Amazon. Amazon Universal. Cash app. Amazon Cash app. Ours. Entertainment. Ours. Entertainment. Apple Bell Cash app. Entertainment. Ars Entertainment. What is. Oh, the is ours Entertainment.

[C]

That's my son's birthday party.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. It's every five seconds though. Ars Entertainment. Ars Entertainment. It's hundreds of dollars. Hundreds of dollars.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, that's crazy. Free Spirits Lock Wills Lock Block. I don't even know Disney. Free prints. Venmo first course. Free prints. Apple Bill. Apple Bill. Peter Piper Pizza. My goodness, I haven't heard that name in forever. Peter Piper Pizza. Microsoft. More Patreon ebay, Candace International or something. Click Pay champions, Pokemon champion, PayPal out of money, Divine Acres. Again, we are prioritizing over this, our life. Prioritizing this over comfy furniture for after surgeries. Prioritizing this over Disney part over debt payoffs over emergency funds. Divine Acres, Venmo Fabletics.

[C]

Mexican Food Restaurant.

[A]

Chili's Tequila, Mexicana, Cook Unity, JCPenney. Oh, do you guys not realize how insane this is? This is one month. One month plus everything. We've already gone over. This is crazy. Nitto Jack Lackland, Jamba Juice, Raisin Canes, Apple Bill, Venmo Clay Casa Brewhouse, Minimum z payments and PayPal and out. PayPal and out. Apple Bell, Medina Valley Cantina Vending Machine, Krispy Kreme, Etsy's, Olive Garden, Cook Unity, Jimmy John's, Jamba Juice, Apple Bill, Apple bowl, smoothie king, TJ Maxx. That's insane.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Spending seven to $8,000 on bull when we could have fully. We could. Oh, my. The amount of money that we could have put towards debt was crazy. Absolutely crazy. Could even afford your truck. Almost. Yeah. $600 in savings. We're doing all that while we have $1,000 of savings there. $600 of savings there.

[B]

Those savings are savings. They're. They're children's. We are trying to set them up for. For the future stuff. So we are using what, $1,000?

[C]

Yeah, we started a. That's the one you're looking at. But we have a high yield savings account for each of our kids. I think they each have like 1,200, 1,400. We put money towards it.

[B]

Every small amount, small amount money towards it. It's going to build over that. They're not going to get that until they're a lot older.

[A]

So it's a high old savings account. What's the interest rate on this?

[C]

Well, we get like a 4.07 dividend. We got it through Navy Fed.

[A]

You can put it in a 529 at least. That's it. Like, it's a tax advantage.

[C]

Specifically for just education.

[A]

Yeah, for education.

[C]

We want it for like if they want to buy a house, but they.

[A]

Can still pull out and pay taxes on that. At least they can and it will probably if it's going historic. Market trends get 8 to 10% instead of 4%. Plus as interest rates go down, which now that, you know, trade negotiations are being done a bit more and, you know, interest rates might go down.

[B]

What was this called?

[A]

You said a 5, 529. It's a tax advantage plan where you can put it in there essentially tax free, let it grow in the market, you choose the investments of choice and then they can pull it out tax free for school, anything education really.

[B]

But if they don't pull out for.

[A]

School, it can literally be used in high school for sporting things in school related. It can be used anything school related. Okay. I just don't like the restriction, but I get it. But that's why it's tax advantage where you're only getting 4%. If interest rates go down, this could go to 2%.

[C]

Well, we have it locked in for two years at 4%.

[A]

Big.

[C]

Okay, but I'm listening. Okay, okay, okay. I'm just saying. Just explaining why we.

[A]

I get it. I understand. But it's only. Again, it's a thousand hours. You could have. This could easily have been $50,000 per kid by now. If that's what we were prioritizing. Easily by the time where you guys have been and where we are, maybe $25,000 per kid.

[B]

Okay, I'll go with that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It could be stacked. And you guys cannot spend money on birthday parties or fun until you have a fully funded emergency fund because how are you guys going to pay for a big expense when that happens? A kid goes to the hospital, you know, breaks a limb, whatever. Who even knows a car, A car breaks down. There's so many emergencies that might not be covered. Okay, yeah, there are so many things. That's why there are emergencies, because they're unpredictable. If that comes, you have 500 hours saved up or something like that for emergencies. Like that's insane. You guys should at least have 20,000 hours saved on the side for emergencies.

[C]

$20,000 saved.

[A]

We'll figure out what is required for you to survive and then we'll do six months of that. I don't know, I'm just guessing. Might be 15. Okay, might be 12. But even we need to have that before we can even spend money on fun because you guys are putting yourself in such a risky position where you're only going to go into more debt if an emergency happens. H Vac went out last summer. You had to go into debt for it. Luckily you qualified for an okay debt. But your debt to income is getting pretty rough at that point. Credit scores will go down. You will that you'll qualify to be able to fix something like that, a new roof or something that when that happens, maybe you have to have a high interest loan for it. You need an emergency fund and not having an emergency Fund is an emergency.

[B]

We. We have tried that before in our Navy Federal.

[A]

Yeah, don't put it in Navy Federal.

[B]

Well, we have, and that's what we got. So in Navy Federal, we put. We put different savings, such as the house emergency, the car emergency. Car fixtures is what it was called Ex Christmas fund. Right. We've done that small stuff with savings for Navy Federal. Obviously it didn't work because what happened? When it comes. When it comes time for us needing money, we pull from it. Oh, great, we're gonna need money because we've got this bill coming out. Whatever. Or hey, we're at a hundred dollars. We need something. Let's pull it from. Pull it from there. And she asked, you know, which one are we pulling it from? You know, Christmas. Christmas fun.

[A]

Or.

[B]

Or car fixer.

[A]

That.

[B]

Well, that's what we were doing. That's what we've been doing.

[A]

It's a better way to account. You can't even even think about.

[C]

That's a good idea. That's a great idea.

[B]

Like I'm. Yeah, that's why we're here. Because we don't know what that looks like. We don't know what it means. SOFI account obviously said don't do Navy Federal.

[A]

If you have access to it like that, it makes it harder with just your behavior. That's okay. Recognize your behavior. If you're an alcoholic, don't have drinks in the house. If you can't stop eating fast food, delete Uber eats. You know, it's like, take a different path home where you're not seeing the golden arches.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

So you just. You put in those Mac and mechanisms. It's okay to. I. We all have immature behaviors in different ways.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

You just set yourself up for success by not allowing yourself. If you're gonna pull for money easily, don't have it attached to the same account.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Huh.

[A]

I don't even realize this. You know, your truck payments as much as your mortgage.

[C]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

That is the most American thing I've ever seen. And that is not a good thing. Delinquency rates on vehicles are at all, all time high. Higher than during the Great Recession. I don't want you to end up there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

People behind on their car payments.

[B]

I mean, yeah, I don't want to do that either.

[A]

Minimum debt payments, not including your mortgage, but including your home equity is $3,439.10. So that alone is 30%. Debt payments alone are 30% of your income and keep Going down this path, it gets a 40%, it gets to 50%. You see how we start missing payments, then cars get repoed, foreclosure notices hit. Because you have to choose what goes where.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That's the dangerous path we're heading now. So yes, it is an emergency and no, it's not just fixable. I need that to be very clear. So mortgage is $1,290.64. What about gas, electricity, Internet, all that stuff. Utilities combined. How much? Oh, on a monthly basis?

[C]

I don't know. I didn't calculate a lot.

[B]

I wish you would have 35.

[C]

Gas. Gas for me, 65 gas for him.

[B]

Weekly.

[A]

What? Driving?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No, no, no home utilities.

[B]

I know, but no CVS.

[C]

It's at least 800.

[B]

Water. Water for everything.

[C]

Maybe.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's up there.

[C]

Somewhere between eight and a thousand.

[B]

We had it.

[A]

We'll call it nine then.

[B]

All right, call it 900.

[A]

900. I know. Some months will be more, some will be less.

[C]

Phone bill, it's 114.

[A]

Not the worst. I like those third party services that use the same towers. Like helium. Does t Mobile Mint uses something. I would rather do that if you guys own your home outright. Just while we're in a budget mode. So again, I prefer helium specifically, but gas. Vroom, vroom. Drive, drive. How much?

[B]

60 bucks for me, 35 for me.

[C]

Every month.

[A]

A month.

[C]

Oh, 60 plus 35.

[A]

How much a month? How much a month of the house?

[C]

So let's say 400. Because if we do 100 a week, approximately, between the two of us. Okay, we'll say 400.

[B]

Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay. 400.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Car insurance.

[C]

325.

[B]

We have USA.

[C]

It's really high.

[A]

Yeah, it's brutal. Yeah, but we could do food for. Could do food for a thousand.

[B]

Are we talking. We talking groceries? Groceries.

[A]

Strictly groceries. And meal prepping. Honestly, meal prep with the kids. Like lots of spaghetti, lots of meatballs, lots of tuna salad. Not tuna. Chicken salad sandwiches or tuna. If you like.

[C]

You could try it.

[A]

Yeah, I think we can do a thousand. We might be able to boost that. TP fun. This is sports and stuff. Give me monthly costs without purchasing new things. What is needed for their enrichment activities that they are enjoying doing? Because I want to be able to budget that in.

[C]

I think it would be probably around 300. Well, maybe not because. Well, sorry. Because she's got 232 plus the private lessons twice a week. She's trying out for the gymnastics team May 31.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

What do we think, I don't know, maybe say 400.

[A]

Okay, I'm going to do TP fund. Is 500 then?

[B]

Because of Joseph too.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, well, if it's 5.

[B]

No 500 for both children, then I'm.

[A]

Boosting it to 600 because it also includes this is TB fund. You throw those things in. They're the extra little things. This is also toilet paper. I'm doing $650.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You budget those out specifically more on your own. But I call it TP fund. It's those enrichment activities for the kids. It's also your toilet paper, toothpaste, tampons, everything that's needed. All that good stuff, healthcare, stuff like that. You don't really have to pay anything.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Right.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

You have no medical bills. Okay, cool.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Pets.

[B]

We have two.

[C]

Where are they?

[B]

We have a white Labradors.

[C]

Yeah. With two white Labradors in hell.

[B]

They are turning one this month.

[A]

We have pet insurance.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Do you have pet insurance?

[A]

What's the monthly cost?

[C]

It's 115.

[A]

Trust me, it's worth it.

[B]

Is it? That's the question we're gonna have. Because she doesn't want the pet insurance. She wants me to get rid of it. Yeah, I have it, dude.

[A]

My just absolute creature of an investigator of in a dog had to take her to the emergency room again for the millionth time the other day. Trust me, it is worth it. It'll save you thousands and thousands. Especially labradors. They like to sniff around and get in things.

[B]

Yes, they do.

[A]

Trust me, it is worth it. It always feels like, oh, do I really need this? And then, and then all of a sudden you see that 10,000 hour bill to keep them alive because something got stuck in their stomach.

[B]

And it's like, that's good to know. Okay, okay.

[A]

So the pet food, how much on.

[B]

A monthly basis, they're. They.

[C]

It's 160 because it's two bags a month.

[A]

That's fine, 160. Anything else that needs to be in your budget that I have not put in? Think.

[C]

Oh, we have like subscriptions and stuff.

[A]

No, you don't.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[A]

If you can fit them in the TP fund, you can. But if you can't, they're canceled.

[B]

Oh, well, we're talking like Netflix, Disney plus, you're saying?

[A]

Those sure are. I'd rather go to Disney than watch Disney. Have Disney plus.

[B]

Cheers.

[C]

Well, I need to like holidays and stuff.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

Nope, just saying.

[B]

You're saying Netflix and all that stuff is.

[A]

Guys, these are sacrifices. We're either sacrificing or we're not.

[C]

But it also has to be livable.

[A]

Listen, I said this is livable. People live like this. You are. You. I mean, that's a spoiled mentality to.

[C]

Not spend money on holidays.

[A]

Yes, that's spoiled. It's an entitlement. It is not required for survival. I want you to. And you probably can budget it in. I'm not putting it into the budget for what is required to survive.

[C]

Okay? Required to survive, okay.

[A]

Which is how you should be living until you get out of debt. You do not have an emergency fund to cover emergencies. If a roof. If you have to replace a roof, you're. If you have to replace a car, you're. You're done. Christmas is not prioritized over the basic necessities for living and survival.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

I'm sorry. It's just simply not. And if we're not willing to sacrifice that, then, like, then we're done. $8,393.74. Again, if you can fit subscriptions into the $650 TP fund, you can. If you can't, you cut them. And you have to start prioritizing which ones you want.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

For the money that hits our account for now until February, you have an extra $3,506.26. So this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to allocate $506.26 to fund money. Stock that up, use it for a big trip, stock it up, use it for Christmas, or $500 going out to eat on a monthly basis. Whatever you guys decide to do, that is what is allocated. So it gives you an extra $3,000 left. Now, we need to make use of this $3,000 heavily, hard, before all of a sudden the income drops by 1,000, because then we're only going to have 2,000 left. So, okay, this. I would snowball, as you guys did before. I would downsize the trucks. I'm going to assume you do. And I'm going to. Minus $25,000 from your debt because we are going to downsize both vehicles. 5,000 for you, 20,000 for you.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Not including mortgage, but including home equity, because it is not a great interest rate. And then minus that 25,000, we have a total of bad. I don't think I did the math right.

[B]

Let me make sure nobody did it right.

[C]

Should be around 75,000. Is that right?

[B]

No, just let him.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

Let him.

[A]

Okay. Bad debt is 137,000. That's about $170.

[C]

No. Are you talking about. Oh, this is with cars that you're considering.

[A]

With you trading down. That's after you trading down cars.

[B]

Yes, that's right.

[A]

If you don't trade down cars, it's $150,000. A bad debt.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

160,000 just about of bad debt. Okay, that's really bad. That's really bad. Okay, so I'm going to. So it's like 68 and a half months to pay off or five years. That's actually not horrible. But if we have that extra thousand this year. Yeah, I mean, you guys will pay off if you're actually willing to sacrifice, which by the way, I gave you a lot of money for fun money. Should take about four and a half years to pay off our debt. And that's with fun money. Normally I can't give people fun money, so you guys are lucky with that. I would take it and I would sacrifice $500 a month. We can still have a lot of fun on that. Yes, but this gives us debt payoff in four and a half years. But then what we need to survive if we start. Okay, so 8393.74 is what you need to survive now. But we get rid of the debt, except for the mortgage. And you need survival funds of approximately $5,000 on a monthly basis. So we need to save up $30,000 for an emergency fund. Okay, so it's higher than 20,000 hours.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

But that's okay. At that point we'll have a lot of money we can put towards debt. That'll take about, I honestly think six months. So this is going to be a total of five years. Five years. And you. We are bad debt free. All debt free, except for the mortgage, which is totally fine. Hold on to the mortgage as long as you can until you want to move. Okay, so. And then you have also $30,000 six month emergency fund. You guys are like golden. You guys have no idea what it's like on that other side because you've only ever consolidated and even when you paid off debt the first time, you didn't have a fully funded emergency fund. This will be like something you've never lived before. And then, by the way, this is without any cost of living increase. You guys will literally have $5,000 a month at a minimum to blow on whatever you want if you really want to. I'd set some, you know, aside for like rainy days and kids and whatnot, but you guys are Gonna have a lifestyle that you don't even know. But even still, you're living a relatively comfortable lifestyle until then because I'm giving you, I'm giving you on a yearly basis $6,000 to blow.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

That's incredible. So that's what I would do. I would do small step to largest that. Downsize the vehicles, prioritize paying those off, roll them over into the next ones. All the minimum payments that we save from one debt rolls to the next payment.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Save up the fully funded emergency fund.

[B]

Do that. Okay.

[A]

You guys are going to set your kids up for success. It's going to be great. I want to see you guys on the financial audit follow up channel, making some progress in the coming months.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

All right. I will get you your Hammer Financial score. But join us for the post show. That's where there's extra stuff that, that we did not talk about for either privacy or for demonetization or because Lindsay's held something for t related purposes. Join us in the post show. The Hammer Elite version is the best YouTube membership on the entire platform. The platform has said that themselves. Make sure you join. That really helps support the channel. Thousands of hours of extra content. Hammer Financial Score, you overspent. So you're spending in a budget. Score is 0 out of 10. Your debt, it's brutal. But no collections, nothing. And for your income situation, I'm giving a 2 out of 10. Don't like the home equity, but it is, is what it is. Still have an equity position in your home emergency fund. One out of 10, that's what's saved up, is basically, you know, 1 10th retirement. Well, you guys are kind of set because of what you guys got going on, but we just don't have.

[B]

I do have the tsp.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I am gonna give you a. The lifestyle you want to live. I think closer to about a 7 out of 10 there.

[C]

It's fair.

[A]

And then real estate, I like the real estate position. Don't like the equity loan, but so because of that, bringing it down to a 6 out of 10. But love the rate, love the payment.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If we didn't have that equity loan, it would be like an 8Amer financial score rounded up 3.5 out of 10. Which just shows how easy it is to get out of this situation if you guys actually sacrifice and grind and not prioritize your fun. Okay, guys, join us for the post show. We'll see you there. And again, if you don't want to be like a guest on the show. Download the budgeting app link in the description below, sign up for the annual version. I'll send you the cookbook that can't be purchased anywhere else. I'll sign it and mail it directly to you. See you there.

[C]

I'm pretty sorry by the way.

[A]

What are you pretty sorry about?

[C]

I did just recently buy 7 LA Dodger NBC New York Yankee baseball caps and I didn't want to tell you.

[A]

Didn'T want to tell you the color.

[B]

Of this what I'm talking about. You don't need all seven.

[C]

I got it before it got sold out.

[B]

The anchor that I want on there.

[C]

Is a limited edition 700 compared to $30 but still it's the only one that's not comparable.

[B]

Don't ask us how much we paid.

[A]

On our wedding Elusive members content. Click the link in the description or pin comment below and watch thousands of hours of extra and uncensored content.