He Needs To Divorce Her | Financial Audit

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "He Needs To Divorce Her | Financial Audit"

Podcast: Financial Audit
Host: Caleb Hammer
Date: March 9, 2026
Guests: Sandy (25, stay-at-home mom), Jared (30, painting business owner, husband)
Location: Phoenix, AZ

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Episode Overview

This emotionally charged episode dives into the financial and personal chaos plaguing a young Mormon couple, Sandy and Jared, whose marriage is cracking under the stress of misaligned values, chronic financial mismanagement, and entrepreneurial instability. Caleb, with his trademark sharpness and sarcasm, facilitates a brutally honest (sometimes uncomfortable) audit of not just their finances but every aspect of their household, relationship, and worldview.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Business Instability & Financial Mess [02:17-20:00]

• Jared’s Painting Business:

  • Claimed cash flow: $50-60k/month, but only takes home $7k/month.
  • Transitioned from W2 employees to contractors after several months of business losses.
  • Admits to poor management and not tracking why losses occur; struggles to break down business spending.
  • "Part of your work is balancing the books, knowing what's happening in the business and why... You can't tell me why it's been losing money." – Caleb [09:13]
  • Frequent pivots to new businesses (mobile mechanic, house flipping, attempted mobile home park); a running joke among their friend group.

• Chaotic Operations:

  • Hired and fired up to 17 employees in a year, constantly switching between employment models and pay methods.
  • Morale “bad,” confusion among workers, and frequent late/on-the-fly payments.
  • “Who wants to work with a guy who can't even figure out if we're doing subcontractors or... performance pay?” – Sandy [28:27]
  • Sandy accuses Jared of poor leadership and chasing new ventures at the expense of stability.

2. Marital Strain & Value Misalignment [10:46-20:03, 36:40-46:07]

• Fundamental Differences:

  • Sandy wants normalcy, stability, and Jared home more often; Jared is driven by entrepreneurship’s demands.
  • Caleb: "You guys are not meant for each other. You have very different values, expectations, and desires." [20:03]
  • Tension over who makes sacrifices: Jared claims time is needed for business, Sandy wants more support at home, especially postpartum.

• Communication Breakdown:

  • Money conversations trigger panic (Sandy) or retreat (Jared).
  • “He doesn’t bring up money... it just ruins your mood. So it feels like you can’t have a conversation.” – Caleb [45:10]
  • Both avoid or melt down during financial talks, eroding accountability and teamwork.

3. Personal Finances: Overspending, Debt & Denial [31:03-80:00+]

• Spending Patterns:

  • Frequent “childlike” spending (Chick-fil-A, Starbucks, Instacart, energy drinks).
  • Overdrafts, buy-now-pay-later debt (Affirm, Sezzle, Synchrony), and late fees are rampant.

• Debt Situation:

  • Mortgage: Home is now a rental but loses money monthly.
  • Non-mortgage debt: Over $60k, much to family (due to failed mobile home park investment), credit cards maxed, auto loans underwater.
  • “Half a million dollars in debt... You don’t realize the hole you’re in. You wanted to soak in the hole.” – Caleb [75:16]

• Financial Enablement:

  • Family assists with groceries, utilities, even loading Chick-fil-A app with mom's credit card.
  • “She thinks it's out of love, but it is so enablement. You can't change behavior to save your life.” – Caleb [74:14]

• Absurd Priorities:

  • Power gets shut off, but they keep buying fast food and toys.
  • $862/month dining out, $614 on “miscellaneous” spending, thousands in credit card interest and late fees.
  • “If we can’t even pay bills, why are we spending $860 on going out to eat?” – Caleb [35:05]

• Reluctance to Change:

  • Neither wants to take hard steps (cutting convenience, switching roles, or seeking outside work).
  • Sandy floats working nights; Jared resists unless she works for him.
  • Caleb: “If she wants to work, let her. What are you doing?” [41:57]

4. Family & Religion Dynamics [03:07-24:00, 44:21-47:01, 76:38-79:40]

• Cultural Pressure:

  • Mormon background influences family size, stay-at-home expectations, and avoidance in addressing hard truths.
  • “Probably because we’re Mormon, and that’s kind of just what you do.” – Sandy [13:31]
  • Caleb skewers the religious rationalization for life choices (“Your culture is broken.”)

• Role-Playing & Infantilization:

  • Sandy at times refuses accountability, blaming youth or lack of knowledge at time of marriage.
  • “The moment I put it on you, you just infantilize yourself... What is this part of our culture?” – Caleb [44:21]

5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Exchanges

• [07:13] Caleb: "I haven't been able to get a single answer out of you... What is she hearing? Because I'm hearing nothing."
• [13:03] Caleb: “Why'd you guys even have kids if your worldviews on this are completely not aligned? Clearly.”
• [20:03] Caleb: "You need that traditional, he's at home a lot... and he needs the entrepreneurial grind. Those two things do not align."
• [35:00] Caleb: “Dude, allowing the electricity to be shut off in your kids is unacceptable as a man, as a provider, as a business owner.”
• [41:57] Caleb: "So just let her work, dude. What are you doing?"
• [45:09] Caleb (sarcastically): “I was too young. I was 20. And I'm still 25 and I don't know what's happening.”
• [47:45] Caleb: “You are both beyond irresponsible with money, just in completely different ways.”
• [75:33] Caleb: “You could be meth addicts. And your kids could be in CPS. But you're not. This is still horrible.”
• [96:19] Caleb: “Step one, couples therapy. Not an option, religious or not, I don't give a [expletive].”

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Recommendations & Next Steps

1. Therapy & Education [96:19-98:13]

• Caleb emphatically insists on couples therapy regardless of Mormon reluctance.
• Assigns the couple to his in-house finance advisor to untangle personal and business cashflows.
• Access to in-depth budgeting courses ("Master Your Money"), budgeting community, and practical budgeting app recommended.

2. Tough Love on Spending

• No more buy-now-pay-later; close out credit cards, use debit cards only.
• Make all energy drinks and coffee at home, cook meals, cease fast food/Starbucks/Instacart.
• Strict budgeting enforced, no new “investments” or flipping until stable.

3. Role Realignment & Acceptance

• If Sandy wants outside work, Jared should allow it (not only work for him).
• Both must accept and adjust to realities of business owner vs. stay-at-home models; if not, radically rethink family structure and finances.

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Timeline of Major Segments

• 00:52 – Utilities and bills going unpaid, power shutoff, borrowing for groceries.
• 02:17–20:03 – Breakdown of business chaos, conflicting accounts, how money “disappears.”
• 20:03–35:00 – Values misalignment, impact on marriage/family, role expectations.
• 35:00–41:57 – Conversation disintegration, emotional triggers around finances, who should work.
• 41:57–47:01 – Deep dive into spending patterns, family enablement, persistent denial.
• 47:45–57:39 – Credit card, loan, and buy-now-pay-later debt audit; exposures of overspending and irresponsibility.
• 75:16–75:57 – "Soaking in the hole"–reality check about the depth of financial crisis.
• 96:19–98:13 – Caleb’s final verdict: couples therapy, expert intervention, diet of radical honesty.

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Tone and Takeaways

Caleb maintains a characteristically irreverent, provocative, and direct tone, making no effort to soften the blow for either spouse and frequently lampooning both religious and personal rationalizations. He pushes fiercely for radical honesty and change, seeing their situation as unsustainable without “beyond deep compromises.”

The episode is both a masterclass in real-world financial dysfunction and a cautionary tale about the impacts of unaddressed value clashes, marital breakdown, and unchecked spending. For listeners, it's a stark look at what happens when avoidance, entrepreneurial restlessness, and domestic expectations collide without open communication or clear leadership.

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Transcript

[Sandy]

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[Caleb Hammer]

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[Sandy]

Mom talk has just been blowing up. Whitney and Jen are on Dancing with the Stars. Taylor is a bachelorette. Saying that out loud is crazy.

[Jared]

Like that is huge.

[Sandy]

But all the cool opportunities could pull us apart. It's causing issues in everyone's marriage. My whole world is falling apart right now. It's chaos.

[Caleb Hammer]

Watch the Hulu original series the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers to supply to watch episodes of Financial Audit a week earlier. Check us out on YouTube. This is the spending of a child. Yeah, you are the parents.

[Sandy]

It's literally a joke in the friend group about how much he pivots different businesses.

[Jared]

You can't just jump ship when it gets hard because every time it gets hard we pivot and then guess what? We have nothing.

[Sandy]

You're the one who jumped ship like seven times. No, I'm fully invested in this. I'm trying to like freaking buy groceries for our kids and we can't even do that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can't even buy groceries when my kids

[Sandy]

have to experience like the lights going out multiple times during the year and

[Caleb Hammer]

they're asking, yeah, you had utilities cut.

[Sandy]

It's so bad. It's so bad.

[Caleb Hammer]

You guys are not meant for each other.

[Jared]

I'm used to living feast or famine that's just kind of been even growing up. That's what we had. So.

[Sandy]

So pull me right in with it.

[Caleb Hammer]

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[Sandy]

Hi, my name is Sandy. I'm 25.

[Jared]

Hi, my name is Jared and I'm 30. We live in Phoenix, Arizona, and this is Financial Audit.

[Caleb Hammer]

Guys, smell that coffee.

[Sandy]

Lucky I didn't get coffee this morning.

[Caleb Hammer]

Gosh, Mormons. You. It just must suck.

[Jared]

She loves coffee.

[Caleb Hammer]

The. You're. That's a bad Mormon. Right under the bus there. A what?

[Sandy]

A Jack Mormon. I.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is that a different prophet that I don't know about?

[Sandy]

I don't follow the rules.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is that the fourth prophet or fifth? What are we on now?

[Sandy]

I don't know. See, that's how much I know. I'm not.

[Caleb Hammer]

What does that make you? Beat her. How does that work?

[Sandy]

Pretty much.

[Caleb Hammer]

I laugh about getting beat as well. Spousal abuse.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Very comedic.

[Sandy]

I love that. Love that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I'm sure the Mormons do. Listen, thanks for coming down.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Arizona Desert Mormons. Well, actually, I think Utah is kind of a desert. Either way, Sadie, you're the one in front of me. Sandy. I messed that up before the show as well. Weird fake. Not a weird fake name. I just did not actually write it down.

[Jared]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you do for a living?

[Sandy]

I am a stay at home mom to four kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so you're doing trad wife that way. Why aren't you? Trad Mormonism in another way.

[Jared]

Everything but coffee, right?

[Sandy]

Yeah, I like to cherry pick. I'm a cherry picker.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Classic religion. And she's gonna giggle all the way about it till the end.

[Sandy]

I am.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so stay at home, Mom. I'm gonna guess that is zero dollars.

[Sandy]

Yeah, zero dollars.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, Jared, you better make some money. Big, big little big little guy, because

[Jared]

I have no idea.

[Caleb Hammer]

There needs to be something here. Yeah.

[Sandy]

Looks too much. That's what it is.

[Jared]

Seven thousand a month.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, what do you do?

[Jared]

Oh, I own a painting company.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, really? So you're just going out there painting? I love it. And I'm assuming we're painting houses, we're painting businesses. We're painting just anything and everything, right? Yep.

[Jared]

Anything that needs it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Cool. All right, what does this business bring? Do you have employees?

[Jared]

We're a full contract model now.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you have contractors?

[Jared]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, what are you paying out to these contractors on a monthly basis? On average 30 to 40k a month. Oh, good. How much does the business make a month usually?

[Jared]

Cash flows 50 to 60.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why did you say 7,000 hours? Was the rest of it going to anything and everything?

[Jared]

Learning? Yeah, it's been.

[Caleb Hammer]

No wild. Does the rest of it go to. You guys need money to live. I don't know if you know this sounds like you have kids. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sounds like there's 20 to 30,000 hours left on a monthly basis. How are you bringing in seven? What the are we talking about? Hopefully that is post taxes, but I don't know.

[Jared]

Definitely overhead. You know, we got a lot of overhead.

[Caleb Hammer]

What you said, what you said, you're contractor only. What's your overhead? Where's the last year?

[Jared]

Last year we weren't contractor only.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but you are now. Where's the rest of it going?

[Jared]

Well, the rest of it's just January 2nd. We trying to pivot over the new model so it's not really separate either.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, well, that doesn't matter. You gave me the example where the money goes to contractors on a monthly basis.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So given where we are today in that same very example, where does the rest of the money go?

[Jared]

It's hasn't come in because we're not.

[Caleb Hammer]

I know it hasn't gone in, but you, you pay the contra. You're giving me the example of what it looks like today. Yeah, on what it's going to look like, on how you're paying the contractors. Why can't you do the same thing for where the rest of the money is going? Why are you only able to give me what the contractors look like this year, but where the rest of the money goes last year because we haven't

[Jared]

made a lot of money.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh my gosh. That shouldn't matter. You're telling me how much you're paying contractors on an average month this year? The income is not necessary to tell me where the rest of it would go. You're able to tell me how much the contract is making. You should be able to tell me where the rest of the money goes.

[Jared]

So we're averaging 50 to 60.

[Sandy]

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[Jared]

See, last year, this year we've only. We've only done 30 this month, so it's not nearly as much.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, well, that. First of all, the month's not done, so it doesn't even matter. Listen, if you've made 30 by this time in this month, it looks like it's being projected to be about 50 at this point. With where we are on the month. I don't know. Listen. Okay, say you make 50. Where does it go?

[Jared]

There.

[Sandy]

The lines are blurred between personal.

[Jared]

Definitely not. No, no, they are.

[Sandy]

They really are. So. Yeah, they are.

[Jared]

You know, software, we've got.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, because I. Painting software, My favorite. Oh, my gosh, it's great. Microsoft paint. How much?

[Sandy]

And it's like three.

[Jared]

Our software cost.

[Caleb Hammer]

It was.

[Jared]

It was 3,800amonth last year. And then we had a guy come in and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is she in the business? No, she's just speaking like she's in the business.

[Jared]

She hears this crap from. From me.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, here's what I'm trying to get a single answer out of you, and I haven't been able to get one. What is she hearing? Because I'm hearing nothing.

[Sandy]

Well, a lot of. A lot of spending. Like, I. I mean, I had to pay his employee out of our personal finances.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the. Like, what. What are you doing? Why?

[Jared]

Yeah, yeah, we lost a lot of money in the last two, two, three months of the business. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Jared]

Just insane. Like, losses on projects and.

[Sandy]

Wow.

[Jared]

I boil it down to, like, poor management.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you're boiling down. You can't actually tell me what actually was.

[Sandy]

There's not.

[Jared]

No, I can't put my finger.

[Sandy]

There's not a lot of. There's not.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Three months of losses and you can't tell me why that would lead months losses meaning good luck paying bills. How. Dude, when we have a video, do poorly, we know within a couple hours. Why? How are you three months in not knowing why you're getting these continued losses?

[Jared]

Dude. Yeah, so we had. It was a W2 model, and we're losing on wages, right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Uhhuh.

[Jared]

And then we switched over the contractor model, and we haven't made up the gap.

[Caleb Hammer]

So.

[Jared]

And then.

[Caleb Hammer]

So what's the difference specifically, other than potential benefits required, potential tax liabilities and whatnot with the W2?

[Jared]

Insurance.

[Caleb Hammer]

Insurance and everything. So what's the price difference? What have you guys calculated out for the loss between the W2 model and the contractor model for these people?

[Jared]

So on W2, I'd say gross. We're gross. Like 30. 30% profit, gross.

[Caleb Hammer]

How is that possible? If you lost money for the last three months, where's the profit? There's no profit. What do you mean profit? Have you ever heard of profit?

[Jared]

Yeah. So the overhead, right? Overhead's pretty expensive. We were buying equipment.

[Caleb Hammer]

You just said you had 30 profit margin on your business. What the are you talking about?

[Jared]

Gross. Right?

[Caleb Hammer]

You said profit margin.

[Jared]

Yeah,

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Jared]

No, I got that wrong. Yeah. Okay. No, no, I see.

[Sandy]

Okay, we're a little bit like.

[Jared]

So I just show up and I do the work. I can make clearly cash appear, but I'm the owner.

[Caleb Hammer]

Part of your work is balancing the books, knowing what's happening in the business and why it would be losing money. You can't tell me why it's been losing money.

[Sandy]

I can tell you. I think that the.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so the person not in the

[Sandy]

business tell me the issue. A lot comes from like, first of all, morale of the employees. There's none.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like what. Why the. Does that even matter in this situation?

[Jared]

It's a production industry. So like if they're not. If they have to produce with our own two hands. Right. So if morale.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, yeah, morale's great. It is important. I'm not saying it's not an important thing, but we're talking about how we lost money for three months because morale is down. Can assign that to something. Assign that to a value somehow.

[Sandy]

He's not really tracking anything. Like, I just.

[Jared]

It's. It's not that bad. It's not.

[Caleb Hammer]

How do you even know the morale's bad?

[Sandy]

Because like when, when he goes and like gives everybody a job and he's like not showing up to the job site and there's like nobody.

[Caleb Hammer]

I can't get to the job site

[Jared]

if I don't leave the house until like 10 or like so. And the most important part of a big holiday is the morning. And if I can't kick start the team in the morning because I need

[Sandy]

your help in the morning.

[Jared]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, he does have to run the business like we have to kind of. You can't blame him for not being at the job if you're the one not letting him go to the job. And I understand the baby thing. I would want him to be supportive as well and support what you need. But the thing is, running a business is also like having a baby. It really is. It isn't showing up to a nine to five. There's a lot more that goes into it. There isn't really a set schedule when you own your own business and you have employees Non employees, I guess, but agree.

[Sandy]

But I think that if like I didn't choose that lifestyle. He chose it. And.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, but you're in it. So what are you going to do? Do you want him to leave the job and have his own? Should he go into a 9 to 5? If so, make that be known. But you can't tear down something without building up a replacement.

[Sandy]

I've made that known and he doesn't want.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you want that?

[Jared]

I don't see how it's physically possible.

[Caleb Hammer]

Physically possible? What are you talking about physically possible? You can't work a job. People don't work jobs. What are you talking about? Everyone around here works a. Yeah, I

[Jared]

don't see how I could pivot into a job with the way our finances are.

[Caleb Hammer]

So if you make seven. If. Well, okay, here's a fun fact. You made negative money the last three months. A job would give positive money. So yeah, I made that math work.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

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[Jared]

Yeah, seems to be a little bit simpler to say though than to do.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you told me you lost money. You can't tell me how. She said because of morale. You said Morales because you're not Showing up and then you don't allow them to show up. So I'm. Where's the win? Is there a win here? Well, there win that can be found anywhere.

[Jared]

Just a lot of cash flow. I mean.

[Sandy]

Well, okay, so I. Because I think that he needs to be a father too. And part of that is like showing up postpartum and that's.

[Caleb Hammer]

And why the did you guys have kids if you guys are clearly not aligned on how we live?

[Jared]

He.

[Caleb Hammer]

You want to do the stay at home mom thing, but you also want him to be a father. But he's not in the nine to five job where he can just fully disconnect the five and fully disconnect until nine. He's not. He's in the business owning world. Especially in a lot of the contracting things where the hours are weird. There's a lot of management. Look at the lack of management. How's that ending up? He needs to put more, more time and energy and education into it than he even is now. Why'd you guys even have kids if your worldviews on this are completely not aligned? Clearly.

[Sandy]

Well, probably because we're Mormon and that's kind of just what you do.

[Caleb Hammer]

Cholesterol's not a good excuse. That means your culture is broken.

[Sandy]

It is.

[Jared]

We love our kids and I, I think kids are phenomenal because they keep you motivated.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure. You know, you never see them, but sure.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I see very.

[Jared]

A lot of time with them.

[Sandy]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, just the way she said absolutely do.

[Jared]

I'm out with them on the weekends.

[Sandy]

Here's the thing.

[Jared]

Every morning I have them.

[Sandy]

You'll have two stints of like, okay, yeah, I got to work at 10 o'.

[Caleb Hammer]

Clock.

[Sandy]

Two weeks stints of. I got word. But then it's like, okay, he wakes up at 7 and is home at midnight. And it's like, I don't like when do they ever see you? You think on the weekends, but I'll

[Jared]

have like one or two weeks where I need to work till midnight. But like. And that's like in a three or four month stretch. And that's like the anchor point of my identity for you.

[Sandy]

It's definitely more than that.

[Jared]

It definitely isn't.

[Sandy]

Yes it is. Because you literally, you had Godaddy, you had Ron's, you had whatever and everything. Like okay, so we had three largest

[Jared]

jobs that we've ever painted for Good Godaddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, yeah, you'd want to support that. That's a huge job.

[Jared]

But it screwed me cause it was in another city and I had to drive up every day.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why'd you take that? It didn't screw you. You screwed yourself if you accepted a job that was true.

[Jared]

No, I did the first leg just fine. So this is the second part of

[Sandy]

the contract because you actually showed up to the job.

[Jared]

You're right. I worked the hours that I should have, and then as soon as I can't work the hours I should, then I get burned by an employee that screws the whole job up because of lack of management.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, not employee, because you don't treat them as that.

[Jared]

Well, I don't have. No, Definitely not anymore. This year, we're definitely just contractors not dealing with that crap anymore.

[Sandy]

Yeah, as you should, I guess.

[Caleb Hammer]

What does that mean?

[Sandy]

I mean, I just. Like, there's certain people who can handle employees and certain people who can't, and I think that he's somebody who can't handle employees.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why is the can. What's the can't?

[Jared]

I have, like, 16 years in this industry of nurturing teams, and it's not a lack of skills, it's a lack of time.

[Sandy]

You nurtured your brothers.

[Jared]

No, no, no.

[Sandy]

That's a whole different thing.

[Jared]

Because three to four new employees a year. When I was working for my father's business and I built that could run with family, and that were like it was grapevine. But it wasn't. There weren't. There were strangers. Right. And I had to keep morale high. I had to keep production up. Like, I've got the skill.

[Sandy]

But you had the fallout from your dad, like you had. Or a soft place from your dad, like, it wasn't really a real managerial position. You just had, like, oh, I have to, you know, watch for. Oh, and if my brothers don't show up? Oh, no. Like, I'll yell at them.

[Jared]

And there's actual employees in the company outside of family.

[Sandy]

Church members. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

No.

[Sandy]

Had friends and family.

[Jared]

No, there were strangers. Plenty of strangers. He's in multiple states.

[Sandy]

So not when you were working.

[Jared]

No, no. But he actually has an actual business doing this. And I've got a good example of what it's like to run the business doing this.

[Sandy]

Okay. But it's not showing it. So why don't you just get to work?

[Caleb Hammer]

Why don't you just get a second wife to help offset her? Isn't that what you people do?

[Sandy]

We've been thinking about it.

[Jared]

Right. No. I don't know how anyone could ever manage two spouses.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's.

[Jared]

That would be too much.

[Sandy]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, this one's already nagging you enough. Not that it' not justified. I'm not saying that, but. Oh, I can already tell what this house is like. Come on. I mean, Colton kind of had an issue. The producer for this show. Because you were telling Colton that he works all day. All day, all day. Never seen the four kids. But then when he looked into it more talking to you guys, he says he works seven hours a day.

[Sandy]

Okay, but.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you want him to work less than seven hours a day that he's already working? Like, I'm. I'm like, like Colton struggling with that. When he heard that in the conversation, he fed it to me, I read it and I'm struggling with that. Like working less than seven hours a day. He wouldn't work less than seven hours a day if it wasn't his.

[Sandy]

But it's.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's the alternative? Do you just not want an income for the house to take care of the kids?

[Sandy]

Well, I do, but you want a

[Caleb Hammer]

dream world that doesn't exist in the reality.

[Sandy]

I think that, like, I think that I want him to be home. Like, I want him to have normal hours. I don't want to have this whole. Because when he is home, he's still on his phone. He's still working. It's.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can he be home though, at normal hours? If he's painting for godaddy, can he be painting all throughout while the employees are at the office? Might not be the reality of the situation.

[Sandy]

I allowed him to do that and he like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Allowed him to do that.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I mean, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you're the boss of the boss.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I'm the boss.

[Jared]

I got permission.

[Sandy]

I let him go do the GoDaddy thing and I didn't complain. Nothing. I had all the kids with me, whatever. And then he stays up in Phoenix for however long and like two, three

[Caleb Hammer]

guys must be right outside of Phoenix then.

[Sandy]

Yeah, if you're saying that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Because I had Phoenix.

[Jared]

Okay.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I know he took a work call in the green room. Colton said you were giving him the glare of death.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I'm just tired of the work calls, like constantly.

[Caleb Hammer]

We can't ever do anything.

[Jared]

I had a job I had to make sure the customer is taking care of. Without clients. Clients, we don't have a business.

[Sandy]

I understand that, but it's like, where's your priority? Because it's like work is the first priority and then what?

[Jared]

Like, then feeding the family is the first priority.

[Sandy]

Okay, but.

[Jared]

But like feeding, Feeding the family.

[Caleb Hammer]

To be clear, it is very different. I do need to be clear as Someone in a business owning position. It is different than a 9 to 5. It very much is. And if you're not okay with it, why'd you guys get together? You don't seem aligned.

[Sandy]

He wasn't doing that when we first got together.

[Caleb Hammer]

I thought, he's been doing management and business his whole life.

[Sandy]

I thought, no, he was working for his dad for, like, since he was 12. He worked for his dad. And that's when I met him. He was still working for his dad and he dropped off working for his dad to go start a mobile mechanic business. That flopped. And then.

[Jared]

But it paid the bills for three years.

[Sandy]

Well, no. And then we stopped and we pivoted to upkeep. Like, it's literally a joke in our friend group about how much he pivots different businesses. Like, he.

[Jared]

Okay, so I have had an issue with rolling through models, I guess, like rolling through what I want to do because I didn't want to be in the same market as my father doing the same thing.

[Sandy]

Okay. But, but like, I'm just truly fatigued by it. Like, I'm just fatigued by the constant. Like, it's not knowing what's going on. Like, I want to. Yeah, like, you just always want a hot business.

[Jared]

It's part of the journey. It's part of the journey. It really is.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, both of you are right and both of you are wrong. To be very clear. I mean, I'm just reading this from the outside. Both of you are right and both of you are wrong. You guys are not meant for each other. You already have kids. So we're going to make this work. And you probably love each other, but in terms of actually building it together, Building your guys's needs in a relationship are not aligned, to be very clear. They're really not. Yeah, you need that traditional. You know, he's at home a lot. He's helping with the kids a lot. And he needs the entrepreneurial grind, building a business. Those two things do not align. You guys do not align on a very core, fundamental thing in this relationship.

[Jared]

We did in the beginning, like, in the beginning of a relationship, it was.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, she said you worked with your dad. It was different. Different.

[Sandy]

Yeah, it was a little bit hard

[Jared]

when I started getting into, like, flipping houses and stuff. Like, that was totally fine.

[Sandy]

Yeah, let's get into the flipping of houses and flipping everything. You just love. You're a big flipper. You love to flip.

[Jared]

It's, I, I, I'll do side stuff to make money.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, are we headed to the New thing, though. If your business is losing money the last three months, it seems like in the steamrolling that you're doing. We're about to steamroll to what business number? 3, 4, 5? Whatever we're at, it seems like that's where we're headed. 7. Which I can understand why that would be exhausting for her, especially with four kids.

[Jared]

You can't just jump ship when it gets hard because every time it gets hard, we pivot and then guess what? We have nothing.

[Sandy]

You're the one who's jumped ship like seven times.

[Jared]

No, I'm totally invested in this painting.

[Sandy]

I totally was totally fine. And then it. And then it cost us our house. And then it's like, you expect me

[Caleb Hammer]

not to lose our house.

[Jared]

We bought a house that was more expensive than we could afford. And, well, so we were doing business

[Caleb Hammer]

that cost the house or we were getting a house we couldn't afford.

[Jared]

We were doing fine at the time, but we could afford it. And then our kind of fell off a cliff because I made a bad investment.

[Sandy]

Business decision. What?

[Caleb Hammer]

What did you do?

[Jared]

I tried to start a mobile home park.

[Caleb Hammer]

What?

[Jared]

Yeah. And it's a lot different than flipping. So it was like totally out of my wheelhouse and I got raked over

[Caleb Hammer]

just doing all these different things. Man. Why can't you just lock in on what.

[Sandy]

And that's the. That's the core of his.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I understand why that would be annoying because that's also. That's an unproductive side of the entrepreneur. It is. I mean, that is. You're. You're a classic. Move on to the next thing, try to build something. I am too. Like, I'm able to resonate. But you have to learn this flaw. We're the same age. I've learned this flaw about me. I don't allow myself to do like, as many new things, you know, I really don't.

[Jared]

That's where I'm trying to be at this year. But I. I still will pick up real estate if it's easy. And it's like right there, why not? Gotta figure out how to make money on this.

[Caleb Hammer]

I really want to.

[Jared]

Like, I. I have the connections.

[Caleb Hammer]

Real estate is not easy. If. So I've been in real estate. Real estate is not easy. And real estate is certainly not resource lacking.

[Jared]

Geared up, up to go ahead and flip a house. I've got the resources in the connection.

[Caleb Hammer]

You have the resources, you've lost your house. How do we have the resources?

[Sandy]

And we're underwater on it. So it's Not.

[Jared]

Yeah, well, that and you were three

[Caleb Hammer]

months negative in your business. Where's the resources for real estate? Resource. So it's very resource intensive. Real estate.

[Jared]

Yeah. But you know, you close. You get a busy season in the business and then you're doing fine.

[Caleb Hammer]

But shouldn't that be set aside for the slow season to make sure we can pay our bills and not be underwater on mortgage?

[Jared]

Probably, but you also got to be able to make money when you can make the money.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I agree, but that doesn't mean you immediately throw it into.

[Sandy]

Because he's gone.

[Caleb Hammer]

Crossing our fingers. Investments.

[Sandy]

He loves a good, good debt. An accumulation of good debt when we can't even afford to debt.

[Caleb Hammer]

Good debt is good, but good debt can quickly become bad debt when we can't afford it. That is not good debt anymore.

[Sandy]

Right, but we're not understanding that.

[Jared]

We aren't you. I think I am. I think I'm doing just fine with it.

[Sandy]

Right, which is why we buy Sandraels and razors and everything when we're underwater.

[Jared]

Better than buying stuff that you eat and shit out. I mean you don't get any value out of Starbucks.

[Caleb Hammer]

The kids need food.

[Jared]

You don't get any value out of it.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're talking spending.

[Jared]

Yeah, bullshit spending. Okay, if I buy a Sandrail and I I can sell it for more just because it's tax season. It's busy.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's why. Again, you guys are not aligned. You have different values of where you want your money to go. Mine are more aligned with you. But that does not mean she's wrong. I'm able to see this from the outside perspective. Like she wants to prioritize those. Life might not make sense when we're in debt, but same with the Sandrail or whatever. Might not make sense while we're in debt as well. Like so.

[Sandy]

But then he gets these investments and then it's like our kids suffer from it because you freaking sell their favorite thing ever.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? @blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments.

[Jared]

It's about you. Your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the

[Caleb Hammer]

confidence of knowing it's done right. From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is

[Jared]

made to fit your life life and your windows.

[Caleb Hammer]

[e-mail] the only thing we treat better than windows is you. Visit blinds.com now for up to 50 off with minimum purchase plus a professional measure at no cost. Rules and restrictions apply.

[Sandy]

He just Bought a razor, like two months? No, like a. A side by side. Yeah, he bought a side by side, like two months.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know what any of these words are.

[Jared]

It's like razor four wheeler.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Didn't we just have one of those? I feel like I just heard that on Monday. You suck with money. So you download a budgeting app. You start with the classic one, ynab, but everyone just deletes it because it's way too complicated to use. So you go to everydollar. That's Dave Ramsey, the personal finance guy. Right. Well, they're gonna force you to use it his way. That's not very personal. Finances. Rocket Money, they got a lot of commercials, but they're owned by Rocket Mortgage. Guess what they want to sell you in the end. Then there's the new guy on the block, Monarch. Hundreds of millions of dollars of private equity raising so far. But private equity doesn't have the best track record when it comes to private data. That's why I like Dollarwise. Built by these people just like you for people just like you. No private equity, no gimmicks. Just the best budgeting app there is. Download it now and start the free trial. Dollarwise.com, link in the description below. They're fun, okay.

[Jared]

Yeah, it's fun.

[Caleb Hammer]

Great.

[Jared]

That was.

[Caleb Hammer]

But your kids wanted it. Well, you did it to get what you wanted. It sounds like she's saying.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Heartbreaker. You chose the heartbreak. You're the one that did the heartbreak.

[Jared]

I had to make payroll. I had to make payroll. And these guys, like the projects were not going well at all. And it was the last month of having in house employees, so of course I sold it.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then you said you fired everyone. I covered. Did you transition them to contract?

[Jared]

I told them I didn't. I'm not risking your transition. I told them in December, hey, you guys don't have a job anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

How many people did you fire?

[Jared]

It was only two. Is the last two.

[Caleb Hammer]

Last two? How many people did you fire before?

[Jared]

Oh, this year, like 14.

[Caleb Hammer]

You fired 14 people? Yeah, it's laid off a couple people mostly due to performance, but I had two where the positions just didn't make any sense and resources need to be properly allocated other places as they're scaling the business. But I've never just fired an entire company. That's ruthless. That's evil, actually. I would say that's evil. I would say it's a little gross. Those people rely on you for their income. You fired 17. You. You employed 17 people. You just fired them all.

[Jared]

What?

[Caleb Hammer]

What the.

[Jared]

We kept some people around long term, but the thing is. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

You just fired your last two. What do you mean, long term?

[Sandy]

What, kids?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Jared]

The difference is, in my industry, there's such a low bar barrier to entry that they're like crackheads. They're doing drugs.

[Caleb Hammer]

Chose to hire who you chose. You're the one that signed the contract.

[Sandy]

Entrepreneurial.

[Caleb Hammer]

I.

[Sandy]

Personal.

[Jared]

The problem is I try to help people, and if I see them, like, trying, it's okay, but then. Then. Then they get money and they relapse and it's like, well, I.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, yeah, that sucks. I mean, I wouldn't be risking my bet on those people, but either. Either way. Well, you did, so don't. I know you're the one that did it. But either way. Listen, I understand more than most people. When most people see someone getting fired, it's like they immediately take the sympathy of the person that's being fired. Listen, I'm on both ends. I'm someone that's, you know, like, I've seen a layoff, and I've also been the person that's responsible for a layoff. Like, I get it. I can see the other angles of it in a more nuanced position that most people can't. But the fact is, it's. When you fire someone, including when I have had to fire people, it's the last option. There is no more that they've given every training opportunity, they've been given every chance, you know, or you've tried to move, or if their skills weren't suited for the position and their resources could be better allocated somewhere else. You try to see if there's a place for them to be fit where the resources can be allocated. And it's a last. It's like that person just doesn't fit anymore. And it's really sad. But you just killed 17 people.

[Jared]

No, no, I. I try that.

[Caleb Hammer]

17 people that rely on you, they. You. They rely on. I took.

[Jared]

I took a csr, put them in a sales position. That didn't work out.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is one guy. You killed 17 people last year. In one year, they don't show up. Okay, but you chose to hire them. That was your responsibility.

[Jared]

When I hire them, how do I know they're not going to show up? Right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Vetting. My gosh, dude. Yeah.

[Jared]

You vet? I vet plenty. Plenty.

[Caleb Hammer]

You just had a fire. All 17 people that worked for you?

[Jared]

Well, we were a hybrid model, so I had contractors, too, so it's not like I.

[Sandy]

Then we Switch from. It's like. But you switch. You keep going back and forth between subcontractors, between your payment methods. Like, everything. You're just going back and forth.

[Jared]

We tried in house performance.

[Sandy]

Who wants to work with a guy who can't even figure out if we're doing subcontractors or if we're doing a mix of subcontractors or if we're doing performance pay or if we're doing salary pay. Like, nobody knows what to expect. Like, I wouldn't want to work there either.

[Jared]

Everyone gets paid a decent wage to get paid on time and they're treated well. And then they get.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then they all get fired. So what the.

[Sandy]

But it's confusing along the entire way.

[Jared]

The thing is, at least I'm not having people quit because they have a bad work environment. I have to do the firing because

[Caleb Hammer]

they want the choice to quit. You fired them all.

[Jared]

Yeah, well, they wouldn't quit because they get good pay and they get good hours.

[Sandy]

They get paid, but then it's extreme. Sometimes late. Like it. Like multiple times.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, oh, you said you make so much money. How are you having late Pay pay also 17 employees bringing in $50,000. And that seems crazy.

[Jared]

Not at one time.

[Caleb Hammer]

Right? So, okay, what was your max like

[Jared]

salaried employees or hourly at one time?

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know. Employees? Employees. W2.

[Jared]

No, no, no. So like the whole team Overall was like 25. But sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

But what was like the max you've had at one time

[Sandy]

is that counting subcontractors?

[Jared]

No, no, no, it's not. Not so, like, no.

[Sandy]

I'm confused by the whole thing.

[Caleb Hammer]

6 is still pretty chunky for $50,000. What are they making?

[Jared]

Entry is like 19. And then like top was like 30, 32. But at one point last year. Now we're doing like 40, 45 an hour. Yeah, they had a performance pay system. They were making good money.

[Sandy]

Sometimes they had a performance.

[Caleb Hammer]

If their performance pay was hitting the top end of performance, why were they fired?

[Sandy]

Because it was.

[Jared]

Because they. Because they stopped hitting performance. And that morale. The first performance based system was.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm confused on this. Morale. How can you even dictate. How can you even tell me morale is down? How do we even know that?

[Sandy]

Because. Because when you have these two guys and they have no idea what to do because he doesn't have any. Like, oh, okay, this is what we're doing today in the morning. Or doesn't. What do you show up?

[Jared]

What are you talking about?

[Caleb Hammer]

We're all scheduled.

[Jared]

We're Scheduled out for months.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are there no project leads on those jobs? When you're not there?

[Jared]

There is a project lead.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then why were they confused?

[Sandy]

It always gets messed up. It always gets.

[Jared]

There was always mess ups. That was the issue we're having.

[Sandy]

Well, then your software, like, went out and there was a ton of like, issues there.

[Jared]

The broken calendar integrated like, it's. It's a mess. That's the problem that we were having last year.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Sandy]

And so I would also not want

[Jared]

to, like, they know where to go, what to do when they're getting paid, what they're getting paid, what the job is. Like, they've got everything laid out. They just got to show up and do the job. And most of the time they don't even show up.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then mess, guys. This is a mess. How do you guys even communicate on money? What does it even look like?

[Sandy]

Not great.

[Jared]

Not just.

[Caleb Hammer]

I need to know what happens in this household. Please, someone just start telling me, just even baseline.

[Jared]

She tells me what she needs and I'll just make it work.

[Caleb Hammer]

Kind of how. If we're losing money for the last three months, though, this doesn't.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I'm just trying to like freaking buy groceries for our kids and we can't even do that.

[Caleb Hammer]

You can't even buy groceries?

[Sandy]

No, I have to freaking borrow from family to get any sort of money

[Caleb Hammer]

to buy groceries within this last two months. I have one of those months. And you spent 600 more than came in. Yes. And apparently. Do I have the business accounts as well?

[Jared]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because they're all integrated.

[Sandy]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

I thought you said.

[Jared]

No, no. She likes to think that I do all spending. I paid payroll one time out of our personal account. I just gave our guys a bonus.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that's crazy.

[Jared]

It's like.

[Sandy]

But it's not.

[Jared]

That's what the accountants for. I told him, like, hey, I'm running this out of personals.

[Sandy]

Your parents have confused.

[Caleb Hammer]

If we're struggling for groceries, why do we spend $862 and 6 cents going out to eat? And why do we spend $614.02 on miscellaneous? Could be video games, could be a card game, I don't know. But it's miscellaneous. Not going out together is minimum. Minimum? Minimum. Minimum what? 1300. 1300. It's probably upwards of what I'm seeing across the categories. If we're able to break things down a little bit more, probably close to about 2,000. If we're complaining about not being able to put grocery food on the table, which he spent $900 on groceries, which doesn't seem like a big struggle to me to get food on the table if we're spending 900. But either the way, if that's what we're complaining about, why the are we spending $1,300 a month? On what?

[Sandy]

Well, I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, going out to eat I said was like, yeah, 862. Well, so we know that for a fact. So what the. So what's our communication again? Our communication is I need money to feed the kids and he can barely give that to me and we almost suffer the. You talking about. That's a lie. So tell me what actually happens in the communication around the money and where it goes and when it comes in. In everything in this house, there's no

[Sandy]

communication because nobody knows what's going in.

[Caleb Hammer]

Does anyone attack?

[Sandy]

I have attempted.

[Caleb Hammer]

And what does that look like? Tell me.

[Sandy]

I've tried to go through all of our business accounts, like print out our.

[Jared]

You have not gone through our business finances?

[Sandy]

No, not our business finances. Hell no. I'm not even gonna touch that. There's no way.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then how can you say they're integrated?

[Sandy]

Because they're like when I have to pay as employees, when I have. Like when we have car loans coming out of our personal finances. When we have business loans that go into our personal accounts and then get taken out. Like it just. Like there's too much blurred lines. Yes. Huh?

[Jared]

No, we have what?

[Sandy]

Because your dad will send you like 250 there for materials and. 250 there for materials.

[Jared]

Yeah. So this month when I couldn't afford to buy crap.

[Sandy]

It's not just this month.

[Jared]

Just a float. No.

[Sandy]

Yes. Yeah. You don't even know what's going on with the finances.

[Jared]

We usually have totally have enough to float us. Like on the business side, the personal side, just kind of feast of family.

[Sandy]

We don't. When I have to freaking reach out to family to have any sort of. Really?

[Caleb Hammer]

You're reaching out to family?

[Sandy]

Yeah, I don't. I have no way to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who are you reaching out to?

[Sandy]

Well, like, my mom. Oh my gosh.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why. Why is she having to reach out to mother?

[Jared]

This.

[Sandy]

I told you.

[Jared]

These last couple months have been brutal. We haven't.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you said you were floating. Usually I have enough money to float.

[Sandy]

He couldn't even afford Christmas. Like, we couldn't even do Christmas.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that's okay. That's not an emergency. I don't give a.

[Sandy]

No, it's not.

[Jared]

But it is in. It is in your eyes.

[Sandy]

Okay? Fine.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I understand wanting it, but food on the table. Utilities roof overhead comes first.

[Sandy]

When my kids have to experience, like, the lights going out multiple times during the year and they're ask.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. You had utilities cut.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Jared]

Every single time it's paid.

[Caleb Hammer]

You allowed utilities to be cut?

[Jared]

It's paid within 30 minutes because we have one of those charge accounts.

[Sandy]

We have to charge it within 30 minutes unless you pay for money.

[Jared]

I'm like, crap, and I'll send you money.

[Sandy]

No. Or I have to go ask somebody else for money.

[Jared]

You've never asked someone else for money for the power bill?

[Sandy]

Yes, I have. No.

[Jared]

No. We just go, oh, crap, the power ran out.

[Sandy]

That was three times the power has gone out. I've paid it. I've paid it the past three times.

[Jared]

From the money that you're hiding from me that I'm getting.

[Sandy]

No, not that I'm hiding. That I'm getting from other people.

[Jared]

You definitely just stash it.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I do, because. So I can pay the energy bill.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude, allowing the electricity to be shot off in your kids is unacceptable.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

As a man, as a provider, as a business owner.

[Jared]

Gross.

[Caleb Hammer]

At that point. No, that's when you. You're cutting everything to the bone. And also, if electricity is being cut, why are we spending $860 going out to eat? What the. How's that even an option?

[Sandy]

Because, I mean, my kids like Chick Fil A and they have dietary issues.

[Caleb Hammer]

They like electricity.

[Sandy]

They do.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. What the priorities. I paid, girl.

[Sandy]

I know, but I think, like, they also need things to do, and there's not a lot to do in where we live. And so we go to Chick Fil a to play. And you.

[Jared]

Everybody else gets out with the kids just fine.

[Sandy]

It's hot as hell in Arizona. Sometimes you have to go inside.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I go, yeah, but not when the air conditioning doesn't work.

[Jared]

Six o' clock in the morning is perfectly cool. That's when we go on all our hikes and stuff.

[Sandy]

No.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Sandy]

Don't even say we go on all our hikes. Yeah, that doesn't even happen.

[Jared]

It totally does. I take them out all the time,

[Sandy]

and then I get a sweet treat on the way to.

[Caleb Hammer]

At Starbucks. Then you can moan about the electricity being paid off or cut off. If you're going and getting a sweet treat, you.

[Sandy]

But if I pay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sorry.

[Sandy]

If I pay it.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you're complaining. You were complaining about it. Now you're saying if I pay it.

[Sandy]

Because he's.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're completely wrong towards him.

[Sandy]

He's a Provider.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is he or not? Because you said you're literally in the conversation with Colton wanting him to cut back from his seven hours a day. And now you bitch and moan that he's the provider, not providing.

[Sandy]

He's the seven hours a day.

[Caleb Hammer]

Take your struggle, girl. Is he allowed to work or not?

[Sandy]

Well, he is, but he has to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Apparently not, because you were giving him the glare of death when he was working to make sure a job was getting done in the green room.

[Sandy]

Cause I'm freaking tired of work calls. I'm tired of work.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so is he providing or not?

[Sandy]

No, he's not, because we can't even freaking pay any bills.

[Caleb Hammer]

So are you gonna let him try to or not?

[Sandy]

Well, I have let him. I've tried.

[Caleb Hammer]

Not in the green room. Dagger of death.

[Sandy]

Well, what am I supposed to do? We're freaking at a thing, and he has a.

[Caleb Hammer]

Don't shame him for trying to make sure a job's being done so he can be paid.

[Sandy]

But how is he supposed to be present with anybody when he's just constantly on his phone?

[Caleb Hammer]

You're right. And that's. I'm sorry. The entrepreneurial lifestyle and you both decided to have kids in it.

[Jared]

Yeah. It's brutal.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the is wrong with you guys?

[Sandy]

Yeah, I.

[Caleb Hammer]

How's your old oldest?

[Sandy]

He or seven?

[Caleb Hammer]

Were you doing entrepreneurial at seven?

[Sandy]

No, he was working for his dad.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so choosing to do this while you have kids is more on you than it is her. She didn't sign up for that.

[Jared]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So what the is wrong with you?

[Jared]

I haven't figured my out seven years

[Caleb Hammer]

and you haven't figured out that's a

[Jared]

child while we're here. Yeah, that's why we're here.

[Caleb Hammer]

I can't. Dude, no, come on. Listen to this conversation. What are we doing? What are we doing? Listen to this conversation. This is beyond me. We can all admit that. What the we doing going.

[Jared]

Yeah, I got to work harder is what I have to do.

[Caleb Hammer]

Work harder. I mean, I would agree he needs. But if he's an entrepreneur, he's probably at least the give him nine hours a day. Like, what the we doing?

[Sandy]

I think he doesn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

But he also needs to be able to go to jobs.

[Jared]

I'm sorry. Absolutely not.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you're the one choosing to stay home, that is your choice. And if he is the one choosing to work and have the business, that is his choice. He needs to be able to go and do the jobs. The fact is, if you don't. If you want him to be the stay at home dad and you go work, then that's a different thing. Then you have to do that. The fact is you chose to do the. I'm going to keep birthing children, including one that just happened, and I'm going to stay at home and he needs to be the provider. That is what you have given us in this conversation. Then he's. He needs to be able to go to job sites in the morning. If this is his business, he needs to be able to. Or put your kids in daycare and go work for him.

[Sandy]

I've offered to go work and he doesn't want me to, but it's like what?

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't want her to does. Do you want to work?

[Sandy]

No, I do. I want to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, then go. What is this? So stop being a Mormon freak. Let her work if she wants to work. She's a woman. This is not a rant.

[Jared]

I totally think he wants me to work for him.

[Sandy]

He wants working.

[Caleb Hammer]

Never mind. I take it back.

[Jared]

Office stuff would be nice, but I. I gave up on that years ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

What?

[Jared]

I don't do that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Not a good mix.

[Jared]

Yeah, that. It's like we should say like literally keep our marriage.

[Sandy]

Literally a week ago I said, let me go do like a serving job at night or whatever. And he was like, no, well, you can just work for me and do my ad stuff or whatever. And I don't.

[Jared]

Why would you go out and like work for 16 bucks an hour when like we've got this big nugget over

[Caleb Hammer]

that like actually producing.

[Sandy]

And I don't even have to put the kids in daycare if I'm doing a nighttime serving job. You watch them and then we're good.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like also, do not integrate marriage into the. No. Even if she would make more money there. Don't integrate.

[Sandy]

It's so bad. It's so bad.

[Caleb Hammer]

I wouldn't want to say my lady. Going and working a serving job, that's not the dream. I think you can do better than that. I'll get you a course career certification so you can up your skills, up your resume. A lot of people have converted that into six figure jobs in the audience. So take that for free. But also, this is not a rant. She's allowed to go outside.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Work if she wants to, but if

[Jared]

it takes away from my ability to produce, it's like, should she get daycare?

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, yes, if. If the kids are being dropped off the daycare every day, you should be at the job site. That shouldn't be an issue anymore, period.

[Jared]

I. I don't think that makes sense cost wise.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, maybe not. It'll probably be break even with her job.

[Sandy]

Well, the thing is too like we would get free child care. So that's like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait, why?

[Sandy]

What through, through the government program. We would.

[Jared]

No, absolutely.

[Caleb Hammer]

Makes $50,000 a month. Why are you getting government benefits?

[Sandy]

Because we don't know where to freaking put it. We don't know how much.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why should we subsidize you for not being able to manage your books? That's not fair. I don't think the government, ladies and

[Sandy]

gentlemen, I don't think we should. But when we can't even pay for a doctor.

[Jared]

So it's either we pay for the child care to cover the cost of your job and you kind of work and then cover child care. Or I just work a little bit more or the hours.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but you can't because she needs you to be home for the kids. So that's why if we put the kids in a daycare and she goes to work to cover that, you're able to at least go focus your energy on producing this income, this extra income to take care of our mess. So maybe she can come back home. We don't worry about the finances.

[Jared]

I don't think the cost of what like jobs you would qualify for would cover daycare.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, again, we'll get, we'll course careers her up and hopefully she can get into something.

[Sandy]

Something I'm fine to get. Like we look my stuff. Yeah. Like I'm cool to do real estate license stuff, but I just like, I'd like to get out.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is wrong with you guys? Women. It's either real estate license or only today. Come on, stop. Real estate license. You're not going to make a cent for a year minimum. Let's just say that. And even if you do, it's going to be barely. And 50% of realtors in the last year made $0.

[Jared]

I send out 4 to 6 referrals. Referrals a year or last year 4 to 6 referrals. About that the year before. And I don't get any reciprocal work from these agents. Oh, so it's like why not just send that over to her if she's a licensed agent? That would be like a year's income for.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, maybe she sells. Well, listen, again, 50 made $0 last year.

[Jared]

Yeah, yeah, it's really.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I would rather get like a job. Job job with benefits. Job job. Yeah, because that will offset whatever business struggles there might be because you can get your family on the Benny's. Yeah, that's nice. And dental healthcare. We want that stuff.

[Sandy]

Anything else?

[Jared]

Yeah, I don't think the co. I don't think. Yeah, unless. Unless we do a career.

[Caleb Hammer]

Here's the thing. She wants to work.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So just let her work, dude. Okay. What are you doing? What are you doing?

[Jared]

I can. It's just like that handoff period. How are we gonna cover childcare and pay our bills?

[Caleb Hammer]

That'd be, like, two weeks before her first paycheck.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

There's gonna be a weird little mom weekly.

[Jared]

It's weird to have weird, like, normalized income.

[Sandy]

Right? Yeah.

[Jared]

So I'm used to living feast or famine. That's just kind of been even growing up. That's what we had, so.

[Sandy]

So pull me right in with it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you kind of signed up for it, relatively. You chose to keep having kids once you still saw this happening. Yeah. First kid. Not your fault he pivoted. But you decided to keep taking loads on your own.

[Sandy]

I mean, it wasn't intentional with the first two.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, totally was. The last two.

[Jared]

Totally was.

[Sandy]

Well, his. He.

[Caleb Hammer]

Last two, we were deeper in this than ever.

[Sandy]

I didn't carry four children.

[Jared]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

The surrogate.

[Jared]

No, my ex.

[Sandy]

He married previously.

[Caleb Hammer]

Which one's that? The oldest. Okay, what's the oldest? You two? Four. Okay. Was he going entrepreneurial? Five.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, then this is on you. Come on. You chose to have a kid with this. You chose to have a kid with it. What do you mean? You guys, clearly, lifestyle and priorities and what you want in this world and what you value are not aligned.

[Sandy]

Well, when someone comes to you and says, oh, I have this great business idea, whatever, and I'm gonna tell them

[Caleb Hammer]

to shut the up, because most don't, and they're.

[Sandy]

I was 19. Like, I. How would I have known?

[Jared]

You were not 19 when we had our first kid.

[Sandy]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Math doesn't. Oh, it's six.

[Sandy]

What?

[Caleb Hammer]

The kid is six. I thought you said.

[Sandy]

Well, he's five.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so you were 20.

[Jared]

20.

[Caleb Hammer]

But even still, like, I get it. Well. Oh, he's born in J. My brain wasn't built. Is that. Are we pulling that game? Come on.

[Sandy]

I mean, how was I supposed to know?

[Jared]

I know.

[Sandy]

What?

[Caleb Hammer]

I can't.

[Sandy]

I got married out of my dad's house. I have no.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. You also had another two, too.

[Sandy]

Yeah, but I didn't. I still didn't, like, really know until maybe this past year.

[Caleb Hammer]

So the classic, like, a woman of 20, 26 infantilization.

[Sandy]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why are we doing that Facebook definitely

[Jared]

gets the best of you sometimes.

[Caleb Hammer]

The boomer. Tick tock.

[Jared]

What are you doing with.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because that's. I swear, the moment that. Listen, I'm putting so much blame on him and he's like, well, yeah, I mean, I'm trying to figure that he's just like accepting that he's pretty much. I think we've all learned that he's these you. The moment I put it on you, you just infantilize yourself. That's what every single woman does right now. What. What is this part of our culture? I'm so confused.

[Sandy]

I'm just a girl.

[Caleb Hammer]

Exactly. There it is. This is broken. This is broken. Why are you like this? Why are you people like this?

[Sandy]

Because I. I don't know. I just want. I just want.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can't accept any accountability. It just becomes infant.

[Sandy]

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[Caleb Hammer]

Position. I. I just couldn't. I was too young. I was 20 and then I was 22 and I'm still 25 and I don't know what's happening.

[Sandy]

I was.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the is wrong with you?

[Sandy]

You.

[Caleb Hammer]

We all made choices. I made the choices I made at 18. Now I may have made choices cuz I was, but not because when I was 18. So he said in the phone call with Colton that you guys, he doesn't bring up money to you because it just ruins your mood. So it feels like you can't have a conversation.

[Jared]

Sets her off. Like I set her off.

[Caleb Hammer]

What happens?

[Jared]

She just goes in like panic mode.

[Caleb Hammer]

So how can we have a conversation then ever?

[Sandy]

And he's like, oh, today sucked. And it. My employee did this and that and I, I like we're. We lost out on however big chunk of money because his job is messed up. And now you won't let him go

[Caleb Hammer]

to a job on time or work more than seven hours a day.

[Jared]

Straight up, straight up. I will. Like the most money we lost on a job last year was 23,000. Like that's a huge chunk to just throw out.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Jared]

And I can't tell her about any of this stuff because she just melts. She just melts. It's Like a meltdown.

[Caleb Hammer]

You might have to internalize it.

[Sandy]

I think it's rightfully so. I don't. I don't.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's better to have a partner that's able support you without them personally freaking out every time you have an issue, including when you have issues. You don't want him to freak out. Like, it's better. You want to help work through it and have those conversations as a good partner. But I understand this isn't good for you. That one with you. So you need to learn. You got to unfortunately internalize that and then probably seek a therapist. That's the reality.

[Sandy]

He doesn't believe in therapy, so good luck with that one.

[Caleb Hammer]

We've already discovered your so.

[Sandy]

So here we go.

[Jared]

I haven't met a therapist that actually helped me, so maybe it's just a volume issue.

[Caleb Hammer]

This business sounds complicated. I wish I had books here so I can look at it.

[Sandy]

He's not helping. Like, he doesn't even know what his business finances are. So there's obviously nothing.

[Caleb Hammer]

I know. That's why we have a finance. Oh, wait, is it not a business guy? It's a household finance guy?

[Jared]

No, no, it's a business finance guy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, isn't that what we want then? If we don't know what our finances are?

[Jared]

Yeah, projections.

[Caleb Hammer]

We have a. We have a finance guy here. It helps.

[Sandy]

Well, I'm saying he doesn't even know what his business finances look like, so obviously.

[Caleb Hammer]

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[Sandy]

Yeah, but then he gave us a projection that like, she doesn't like us

[Jared]

paying that much for a financial advisor. And it's, I think it's totally worth it because I need to understand what's going on.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so what's the future here, guys? If you can't even have a conversation around money, what are we doing without her freaking out? What are we doing? What happens when you bring up money to him? How? What does the alternative look like? Cuz we just, we put you in a bad light there, but I assume it doesn't go great on the other end or else we wouldn't be in this.

[Sandy]

No, it doesn't. It's basically so tell me what happens.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, so you bring up a financial conversation, what happens?

[Sandy]

I'll, I'll talk to him about like, what we want, like we want to get a house or whatnot. And he's like, okay, yeah, in the next 10, 10 years we can get a house and not, and I, I

[Caleb Hammer]

don't, I, I, I wanted this to be the opportunity to be on your side for this a second. But from everything we just talked about, if you're even considering getting a mortgage right now, that sounds like the most moronic thing I've heard in my life. Why would that even be?

[Sandy]

Work hard. Work hard to get to that point.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you don't let him. What? I'm so confused.

[Sandy]

No, I do.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is supposed to be the I'm on your side portion of this because I was expecting like he would give you a bad response or something, but saying, let's get a house, you need to work Harder. But I won't let you work harder. And we definitely shouldn't get a house because that would be a mathematical failure right now. What? What?

[Sandy]

Yeah. I mean, excuse me. Because we have.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the. Are you talking about?

[Sandy]

Kids. So. And by the time. 10 years.

[Caleb Hammer]

But if you won't let him work to bring in more money, what are we doing?

[Jared]

It's. It's pure chaos. Like, on a daily basis. The amount of stuff that comes in that needs to be handled or paid or whatnot is, like, impossible to keep up on.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I agree. You're probably not a good manager.

[Jared]

She'll just throw stuff at me.

[Caleb Hammer]

You might need a manager. Manager.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

And I know you don't want to put up more money, and a manager ain't cheap, but you might just need a guy, because I don't think you're the guy guy.

[Jared]

I can. I can paint. I can get jobs done.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's about kind of. You took a loss for three. The last three months.

[Sandy]

Because he wasn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who knows what this contractor stuff is? Even you wouldn't let him be.

[Sandy]

Yes, I would. We just had a baby. We just had a baby. I'm like, postpartum. I need a little bit of support. We have no. Like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, then we shouldn't be taking jobs there.

[Sandy]

That. Which she did.

[Jared]

So I tried to save up, but we had that mess up.

[Sandy]

I have no postpartum support, so I

[Jared]

had that mess up. Like, they. They messed up that job and I had to go in and fix it with my own two hands.

[Sandy]

Yeah. So I'm just stuck home alone with. Anyways.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, come on. It's not a perfect world situation. I mean, I will say I want perfect world. He's there with you. But also, if he doesn't go fix this, his business might be done. And then you guys have no income, which means no support for the kids.

[Sandy]

Yeah. Which just. Just typical, though. I feel like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sorry, is that a breaking point, dude? Yes. This whole situation. And this is why, honestly, rewind. Six years ago, I would tell you guys, okay, don't have kids and maybe don't be together.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

I would have said, listen, you love each other. That does not change that you guys have very different values in this part. Very different values, expectations and desires. And you guys are not aligned. I'm not trying to break you guys up. In fact, I want you guys to stay together. And we need to navigate this. But it's going to be deep compromises. It is going to be beyond deep compromises.

[Sandy]

Yeah, we'll.

[Jared]

We'll get there. We'll get to the stability.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay? That's how this works. That is a cope. The, the will get there to get out of a negative conversation. That is a cope. That is how people end a conversation without actually accomplishing anything though. We'll get there or I'll do it or it's going to change. That's not an answer. It is not an answer. I mean there's so much to talk about, but I. I need to get into these finances or else this episode will never end. So what do we think the household financial score is, guys?

[Jared]

1 5, 5 out of 10 split.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you. What? You're giggling.

[Jared]

What are you talking about? Split the diff.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know where the diff between what?

[Jared]

We've paid off these credit cards like twice this year.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. And then just keep coming this year.

[Sandy]

Years.

[Caleb Hammer]

26.

[Jared]

Yeah, 20. 26 last year. Sorry, 25.

[Caleb Hammer]

But why are they back up? That. Isn't that actually indication of even being worse?

[Sandy]

It's been paid off like five, five,

[Caleb Hammer]

five times over the course of how long. Why are they back up then?

[Sandy]

Five years?

[Caleb Hammer]

What's the point of even having the credit cards? Cuz you guys just it up every time. Five times we it up. What are we doing?

[Sandy]

I don't have any credit cards. These are yours?

[Jared]

I don't spend on my credit cards cards. So this, this is yours?

[Sandy]

No, I don't.

[Jared]

I haven't spent on my credit card

[Sandy]

since 50 like 6 years ago and all of that stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

When Was your divorce?

[Sandy]

2018.

[Jared]

2018.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, he opened a credit card for his divorce. I mean, come on, that's eight years ago.

[Jared]

It's like. It's not the same balance. It's not that, that Amex right There is almost 100 from the trip to Go Greece. 100% trip to Greece.

[Caleb Hammer]

In what world can we afford to go to Greece? You can't pay your business. What are you guys talking about? When did you guys go to Greece? Who are you going to Greece? What the.

[Jared]

Well, I mean we just. We just flipped the house and we had a little bit of cash and then I wanted to use savings or

[Caleb Hammer]

get the house that she wants.

[Jared]

I wanted to use that for. I wanted to.

[Caleb Hammer]

You wanted to use it for what you wanted?

[Jared]

No, that money was going to go. It went into the next deal. But the, the Amex.

[Caleb Hammer]

What about the grease? I just. But you what? You were talking about this when it came to. I asked you how you got the grease.

[Jared]

We paid off the cred card. We went to Greece. Racked it back up and then I.

[Caleb Hammer]

When the did you guys go to Greece?

[Sandy]

2022.

[Jared]

Why?

[Sandy]

Because I don't know where.

[Jared]

She spends almost all of her money on travel.

[Sandy]

I just wanted to go. It was on my bucket list.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's. Oh, for sake.

[Sandy]

Yeah,

[Caleb Hammer]

you're both beyond irresponsible with money just in your completely different ways. You can't manage a business's average life, let's be honest. And you can't manage your personal spending and desires to save your life. Let's be honest. You're doing all right. You've had three months of loss and you can't tell me why?

[Jared]

Ah, it could be worse.

[Caleb Hammer]

No. Well, you're right. Four months of losses and not being able to tell me why. Sure, that would be worse. Doesn't mean you're doing good.

[Jared]

Yeah, or.

[Sandy]

Well, I have to live my life. I. I want to go travel and see things that usually live my life.

[Caleb Hammer]

You chose to bring four kids to the world. What does this live my life?

[Sandy]

You just made a commitment to live their life too. Like I don't have a newborn.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you talking about? What. OK, what are the ages of the kid? We got 75 and then what?

[Sandy]

Three and three months.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, listen, here's the thing. We don't get the. I just want to live my life, but also bring kids into the world and take on that responsibility. You don't just get to do whatever you want anymore. That's not how this works. You're not that. What the is wrong.

[Sandy]

I want to live my life with them. Like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure, but they might. What a 3 year old in Greece. How was that a 1 year old at the time?

[Sandy]

We didn't. We didn't take that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so is it with them? No, it is for you. You do that for. For you.

[Sandy]

Yeah, but.

[Jared]

So I would like to do a family trip. Well, so I feel like that's. That's a good goal for me.

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't pay your bills. You lost the house, right? Isn't that what I heard? You lost the house?

[Sandy]

Yeah, that way.

[Caleb Hammer]

You rented.

[Jared]

We just converted it to a rental. Yeah, it's. It's losing us every month.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the are we doing on guys? What the are we doing? What do you think your debt is? Your total debt situation? At least that I have not business debt. If there is any. I don't know, mortgage. That is a debt debt.

[Sandy]

So 400.

[Jared]

Well, is it including. Okay, so to like 5000-004000-00423.

[Caleb Hammer]

420. That's horrendous.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

3, 355 being the mortgage. The rest is just horrendous. Disgusting. Horrible. End of the world debt.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is wrong? Okay, guys, so you think it's a one? You think it's a five? If you want your Hammer Financial score, take the assessment. See where you stand in the world of money. It is free@caleb hammer.com where you're doing poorly, where you're doing great. What you need to do to improve, improve. You'll all get that for free@caleb hammer.com and make sure to download the Dollar Wise Budgeting App by the time you are seeing this episode. A massive refresh has been done. New features being added every single month. Guys, this is the budget app. It's not like you need a budget wine app where it's overly complicated and most people don't make it past the onboarding screen. It's not like the Ramsey app where it forces you to use their financial method. No, because personal finance is personal. Why should it force you to do that? It ain't like Rocket Money that's trying to sell you a mortgage. It's not like Monarch that's just right. Raising capital, capital funds from private equity so they can just capture your information. No. This budget app is made by people like you, for people like you. And now with the new update 5.0, it is the best budgeting app on the market. Check it out. Get your free trial at Dollarwise app and only through the end of March. If you sign up for the annual version, which saves you 50, I'll personally sign my Budget friendly cookbook and mail it directly to you. Check that out, guys. Check it out. All those links are in the description below. I gotta get into these numbers. Are we all on the cards together? How does this work? What's.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I think I'm an authorized user on two of them. I think Amex and Alex.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, Amex. So you're both on this?

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's going on with the Amex?

[Sandy]

A lot of Amazon, a lot of Chick Fil, a lot of Starbucks.

[Caleb Hammer]

Cute. Chick Fil A? Why are you getting Chick Fil A in Starbucks if we can't pay our bills? And you just cried about not being able to pay the utilities. Why is Starbucks an hour option? Starbucks is more important than utilities for your children. What are you. What is wrong with you? What the are you talking about?

[Jared]

Chick Fil A is. I mean, it sounds like a bougie restaurant, but we got food allergies.

[Caleb Hammer]

It doesn't sound Like a bougie restaurant. In fact, it sounds like a fast food restaurant, but it is still very good. Bit of a round ass. I don't know why you just said it sounds like bougie. What are you talking about? I mean, you guys can't afford anything, so. Yeah, everything is bougie for what you can afford. Takes 15 years to pay off. Your oldest will be well out. Out of college, so a lot.

[Jared]

Some of that's from like on my flipping. Like on a credit card. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

They're even money on the flip side if it's occurring at 30% interest ongoing for 15 years.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

I haven't got a flip master.

[Jared]

You.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're not a flip master. You don't know what you're doing. Like I told you, not a good business owner. What are you talking about? Flipping on a credit card? What the.

[Jared]

Are you talking about buying parts for like, the vehicles are flipping?

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, it's. Vehicle flipping is not even house flipping. Your vehicle flipping. Why are you vehicle flipping? What are you doing? Why can't you just focus on your. Dude, if I find a good deal

[Jared]

on a truck or, you know, a toy or something. Yeah, but all the time you're even

[Caleb Hammer]

spending looking at deals, you should be putting into your business and making sure jobs are being done correct so you're not having a new last minute calls.

[Jared]

It's a fun activity to do.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't care if it's fun. You have to make your business work so you can pay your bills.

[Jared]

This makes me money.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's losing 30% and takes time out

[Sandy]

of being with your family.

[Jared]

But I do it with boys. Most of the time they're out there

[Sandy]

helping me go to work forever and then come back and work on your

[Jared]

go to work for six hours.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are the kids actively participating in this car thing? Because if it is, it's.

[Sandy]

It's a. I disagree.

[Caleb Hammer]

Good for the kids.

[Jared]

They totally do. They help me replace the diff on

[Sandy]

the razor until they start crying and you send them in. Come in with me to watch dinner. So. Or to make dinner. So.

[Jared]

No, sometimes they. They get fed up with like the task or they get bored. Like if I'm doing something technical and

[Sandy]

they can't help, can they be. That's not. That's not. They're not helping on that.

[Jared]

Loves his toolkit. He helps all the time that he got for Christmas.

[Sandy]

So he didn't help previous to that?

[Jared]

Yeah, he did.

[Sandy]

He used. No, he didn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sandy]

It's not happening.

[Jared]

It's happened.

[Sandy]

They do not help. They don't help inside with me. No, they don't. Every time you go and you say, okay, come on, let's go help dad. And then they come in, like, five minutes later while I'm making dinner.

[Jared]

Come in at five minutes to grab a drink or whatnot. They're so fun.

[Sandy]

They're always crying, and I have to freaking mitigate that, too.

[Jared]

Well, they're boys. They fight. But they help me.

[Sandy]

That's not. Fight. Fight with you?

[Jared]

No, they fight with each other.

[Sandy]

No, they're. They don't help. That's.

[Jared]

I beg to differ. They had an absolute blast with the Polaris. They had an absolute blast.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'll give you.

[Sandy]

They help for five minutes. That's it.

[Jared]

They had an absolute blast with the

[Sandy]

F250 and the BO in the 5000 coast.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you're in Arizona.

[Jared]

Yeah. I mean, there's lakes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Lakes are Phoenix. Yeah.

[Jared]

Lakes are 30, 45 minutes away.

[Caleb Hammer]

You have to go 45 minutes to put your boat in water. Why do you have a boat?

[Jared]

It's fun.

[Caleb Hammer]

45 minutes away. You don't have time. We've already established that. Where are you going? To the boat.

[Jared]

There's lakes nearby. It's just a quick, easy trip. And it's cheap and it's got gas.

[Caleb Hammer]

The Polaris that they were, like, working on and you said they loved. Isn't that the thing you were forced to sell.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

To just pay your employees?

[Jared]

Yeah, I did. I did. But, you know, the only reason that broke even on that is because the timing. If I waited another month or two, I would have made a lot of money.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, but you had to actually pay your employees. Maybe you should focus more energy on your business.

[Sandy]

Right. So if he's working for so long, then why is it there's nothing to show for it?

[Jared]

I don't.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's the thing. Not. You're not letting him work more than seven hours a day. I'm against that.

[Jared]

And I'm against you not working postpartum. I don't really get out the door to, like, 9, 10.

[Sandy]

I disagree.

[Caleb Hammer]

You disagree? Wait. Okay. No, no, no. I want us to at least agree on what time he leaves the house, because that should be something that's objective.

[Sandy]

I want to say 8.

[Jared]

Absolutely not. Like 9 or 10. Maybe I get to the job site, like 11:30 every day. 11.

[Sandy]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

How can we not agree on what time you leave the house?

[Jared]

Because it's not regular. There's no structure to this.

[Sandy]

There's no structure.

[Jared]

Structure or routine. It's Just keeping chaos.

[Sandy]

Yeah. For seven years.

[Jared]

I used to wake up at 6:00 every single morning, just get out the door. The first thing I did. First thing I did.

[Sandy]

When you weren't married and had.

[Jared]

No. When we were first married too. I would just get out the door for your dad.

[Sandy]

When you weren't an entrepreneur.

[Jared]

When I was early on as an entrepreneur, I wasted a lot of time on software and like the soft stuff that didn't work.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you talking software? What Software keeps coming up. You're paying. What are you doing? This is like calendar integration software.

[Jared]

What the time are you spending? You know what about it?

[Sandy]

Which will also be on the credit cards.

[Jared]

I'm sure I did not buy that courses. I bought a sales course.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, some can be good for what it's worth. Like course careers. That is good. It's a certification. Our master money program, like thousands of people have used and they literally. We see results in their personal lives. There are good things. That's not inherently bad. Not inherently bad.

[Sandy]

When he doesn't actually do.

[Caleb Hammer]

There's a lot of slop out there to wade through.

[Jared]

Okay, well, you weren't doing the sales course yet, but I see it as a pain point. Like it's a choke point for me. So I need to know what it looks like to hire a good sales

[Sandy]

rep like two years ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, good. I'll put you guys to our master your money program. You need to do it together and take the quizzes. The budgeting class, the debt class. The more the real estate class because you guys are going to need that. You're already that one. And the investing class because you should need that eventually. Join the community, be active in the community. Hold each other accountable with everyone out there. It's incredible what people are doing. Master your money, you get it for free, guys. Okay, the Amex. Back to this sake. You're over the limit.

[Sandy]

Why?

[Caleb Hammer]

What the is wrong with you guys? Why are you spending Leafy. Oh, why are we spending money on a lay fee that we can't even pay off that is going above the limit on a minimum payment that we can't even put towards it on time. Why? That was the.

[Jared]

I mean, we pay it on time. It's just those last three months, you

[Caleb Hammer]

know, we pay until we don't. Asshole.

[Sandy]

Yeah, it's. But not usually.

[Caleb Hammer]

More usually usually means it's not always. And the only answer for it being good is it's always taken care of.

[Jared]

We paid it down from like what, 7,800 down to 80% 4 4.

[Sandy]

45.

[Jared]

I don't know what's on there right now.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, buddy, because I'm not. Because you racked it all up and now it's back up again, dude. And for Alexa skills.

[Sandy]

Ye. Yeah.

[Jared]

What is that?

[Sandy]

That's for White Noise. For the kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

For White Noise? Play a fan. Buy a box fan.

[Sandy]

We have box now. Cuz Alexa's freaky.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're paying for this.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the.

[Sandy]

I need to cancel it.

[Caleb Hammer]

There's no subscriptions to White Noise.

[Sandy]

There is. Too much.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, there is. You just don't need to pay for it. Amazon prime, something there. A return payment fee. Cuz you. It's not that you didn't pay it in time. You didn't have enough money in your channel checking account. Yeah, that hits a fee. Another $30 added. Push you above the limit. Dumbasses. And an Instacart subscription. Go to the grocery store. You have legs, you have feet, you have arms. Go.

[Sandy]

Okay, I guess.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh my goodness. How do you think literal mothers have done this since the history of forever? You know, four kids is barely even a thing compared to what people used to do. Like what are we doing? You're suggesting that no one was. We have more luxury and even ease today than ever before. Autism always existing.

[Sandy]

Yeah, but also that can be like an accessibility tool. I feel like Instacart.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, you can't afford it. Though I would agree if you could afford it. You are literally having your electricity shut off. You're not doing the convenience of delivery, dumbass. What are you talking about, dumbass?

[Sandy]

Well, I think. I don't know. I don't know if I could get rid of that one.

[Caleb Hammer]

That one too. You can. Cause your electricity is getting cut off. Dumb. Dumbass.

[Sandy]

Yeah, but then we. My. My three year old likes when the groceries come. It makes him happy. It makes him happy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Oh, you guys are broken. What the. Yeah. Late fee. $1,369 in interest last year. Yeah, it's stolen from you. Taken from you. It's gone. Never to be seen again. In fact, you have to pay for it.

[Sandy]

Yikes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Ally. Ally. Credit card. That's a rarity. Usually it's a car loan. Who are you both on the. Ally?

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's going on with Ally?

[Sandy]

Probably traveling.

[Caleb Hammer]

What the. If you can't pay your electricity bill, why are you traveling?

[Jared]

Because she goes to like a nearby city a lot to visit family.

[Caleb Hammer]

Visiting families.

[Jared]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Nearby.

[Jared]

Driving, like hour and a half.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's okay. That's not the end of the World. You can budget that. You can pack lunches. Yeah, you can get a cooler.

[Sandy]

I just don't pack lunches.

[Caleb Hammer]

But what the is wrong with you?

[Jared]

Yeah, and then when I go along and it's like in the the middle

[Caleb Hammer]

of a work day, neither of you can do it. To be clear.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't know.

[Sandy]

Great.

[Caleb Hammer]

Good one. Okay. $47 over the limit. Six years to pay off. What? What the are we doing, guys? This is a joke. $111 a month, you purchase $774.43 on this. What the Are we doing fees again? Fee. Well, please don't donate so late fee at least. Don't tell me it's a late paid.

[Jared]

I don't think that's got a late fee yet.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hold on. What is happening? Hold on. Where is this coming from? Eight of twelve months last month were late fees on this card. Eight of twelve months.

[Sandy]

Yikes.

[Jared]

I didn't get nearly three.

[Caleb Hammer]

Four of the year was not paid on time. Three fourths of the year.

[Jared]

I didn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

You guys are broken and you can't. They don't. They want their money. Doesn't matter. It does. That doesn't matter. You have the responsibility. You took this out. You signed the contract. They don't give a. Be a man.

[Jared]

You think they'd give you a heads up?

[Caleb Hammer]

No. Why? They want their money, dumbass. Oh, you guys are the biggest dumbasses I've ever met. You really are. What the are we doing then? You guys can't talk about money. No shit. Leafy beats happen 8 of 12 months. What are we talking about? No, this statement was in November, okay? At that point, you guys missed eight of the 10 payments that was due. Eight of the 10 last year. the time of the statement, you.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is wrong with you? Why? You made one on time. You made one payment on time on this card.

[Jared]

Yay, props. Did you do good job?

[Sandy]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you guys can't talk about money. You don't even know how much money comes in. I can't even put that into the budget. What are we doing, guys?

[Jared]

Surviving.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I would say no. You're really not.

[Jared]

I'd say we're surviving in n out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Arby's going inside to get into bullshit from the gas station. And that ain't the gas.

[Jared]

What are you talking about?

[Caleb Hammer]

Because the gas was 101. Then you went in and spent 717.

[Sandy]

And I just drinks.

[Jared]

Nope. I do my mixes. Well, I Don't have it with.

[Caleb Hammer]

No.

[Sandy]

You go into qt, you get energy drinks.

[Jared]

I do a little drink mix. Energy drinks.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, you do. And now you're doing the better ones here. They're nice and inappropriate for your Mormon brain, but here you got gamer subs. Get the flavor you like. The free samples. Type in Cody Caleb @gamer subs TG. Link in the description below. See what flavor you like. They're free. And then it's 40 cents a serving. You make them at home. You do the little shaky, shaky. Okay, you make them at home. 40 cents a serving. We did a blind taste test. They tied with the best energy drink.

[Sandy]

Nice.

[Caleb Hammer]

So.

[Jared]

So I don't need to go to QT anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

No more qt. You making energy drinks at home. You are making coffee at home. You are not getting stares anymore.

[Sandy]

Espresso.

[Caleb Hammer]

Energy drinks at home. Coffee at home. Energy drinks at home. Coffee at home. Budget.

[Sandy]

Okay, we can do that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Cause he also went inside and got another energy drink. Chick Fil. A pantry. Instacart. Go to the grocery store. Instacart. Instacart. Instacart. Instacart. Boober eats. Go to the restaurant. Except you can't even afford that. So pantry McDonald's. McDonald's can't eat McDonald's.

[Jared]

McDonald's was probably buying it for a team member.

[Caleb Hammer]

Uber eats. Pantry Starbucks. Make your coffee at home. What is wrong with you guys? You have children. Your electricity is getting shut off. This is the spending of a child. Yeah, you are the parents.

[Sandy]

It's for the kids.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, it is for you. Because you said it's easier, it's quicker. It is for you. You Starbucks is bull and a waste of money. And you already know that by making your coffee at home. The rest. So now you need to do that with your energy drink as well. Make gamer subs at home for just 40 cents a serving. And honestly, it literally tastes better. And we proved this accidentally via a blind taste test in our Hammer Elite show. Fat and fatter. The number one ranked energy drink is gaming sauce. Literally, the cherry flavor is insane. Listen, you can also get free samples to see if yellow like it or 10% off your order at gamersupps gg or click that link in the description below. Type in code. Caleb, I am so excited for you guys to finally get your hands on what I've been working on for a year. The brand new dollar wise budgeting app. And listen, I get it. The first iteration was a disaster. Many reasons from working with an external agency to shit infrastructure that I could use. But let's be honest, that was on me. So I put my money where my mouth is. And after investing millions of dollars and hiring dozens people, we've completely rebuilt dollar wise and it is truly incredible. And to celebrate, I am giving you some insane deals to sign up for the first time. Or trying it again after you used the shitty version last year. But these deals only last through March 31st and then they're gone forever. Download now. Take your free trial to test it out and get the monthly plan at a 33% discount for three months. Or take the annual plan for an insane 50% discount and the annual you get my budget friendly cookbook signed by me and my brand new 30 day detailed budget meal plan signed by me as well. Both of them mailed directly to you. But after March 31, the cookbook is gone forever. So this is literally your last chance to get it. Don't miss this opportunity of a lifetime. Download Dollar Wise and start your free trial. Go to Dollarwise.com or click those links below. Guess what? Oh my goodness. It's another fee card. It's a red, meaning it's late. What are we doing? Quicksilver 1. What's going on with this? Who's this? Is this both of you guys again?

[Sandy]

I don't actually know.

[Jared]

I have no idea.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is wrong with you guys. You don't even see. We don't even know what cart. Okay. S$974.

[Jared]

I scheduled a payment for that one and they put it on the cuz I've got two capital ones, $163 a month.

[Caleb Hammer]

But guess what? You purchase that and then it's late because you probably didn't have enough money in your checking account when you scheduled with the payment.

[Sandy]

That would be it.

[Jared]

They doubled up. They doubled up. They. So they did a double payment on the other card.

[Caleb Hammer]

Need some grog?

[Jared]

It's ridiculous.

[Sandy]

I don't know what that means.

[Jared]

I don't know. They took out the the payments and put it towards the.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, return payment.

[Jared]

Platinum past due.

[Caleb Hammer]

40. Five late fees this year so far. Well, last year the due date was okay. You had 11 months of the time of this statement. So four out of 11 you missed

[Jared]

did better than the ally.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Progress clap. So what, is that actually going to be your cop? Is that how we're going to walk away from here? Is that how we're going to live our life? Your kids are screwed. She's had to call family to try to pay the bills. Yet you then you go to Chick Fil A. Do they know that? Do they know that? Because you should tell them that next time you ask for money. You should say, but also, we just spent a few hundred bucks on Chick Fil A last week.

[Sandy]

Well, my mom let me put her card in my Chick Fil A account, so.

[Jared]

Is that how you got all those points?

[Caleb Hammer]

Maybe your mom let her put her card in your Chick Fil A account with your four kids. Why is your mother like this? She thinks it's out of love, but it is so enablement. You can't change behavior to save your life. You'll never be able to take care of them in the way that you need to financially, the way they need. There's no way. There's no chance you'll ever be able to.

[Sandy]

Yeah, she felt bad.

[Caleb Hammer]

She shouldn't. She should tell her kid to stop being a child and grow up.

[Sandy]

Well, she's Mormon, so she probably wouldn't say that, but. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are they not more conservative? Do they not want you to grow up and be independent?

[Sandy]

Well, they do, but also.

[Caleb Hammer]

But giving you her credit card and your Chick Fil A account is the literal opposite.

[Sandy]

Yeah, it's this. The spending is a little bit generational.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's funny. We're dying. We're literally dying. Our children are gonna lose a roof over their head again. And the electricity is going to be shut off. Let's laugh about it.

[Sandy]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[Jared]

I'll figure it out.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, shut the up.

[Jared]

I'll figure it out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Shut the up again. You see, you just did the thing that I said. Everyone does. That's not an answer. That's a get out of jail free card. That's not an answer.

[Jared]

I figured it out all the way up to this point. So.

[Caleb Hammer]

Look, we're figuring it out is figured out, too. Half a million dollars in debt.

[Jared]

Maybe one of them is a mortgage.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, a mortgage that you guys couldn't pay, so you turned it into a rental that doesn't even break even. Yeah. You have not figured it out. You guys are in a hole that is beyond holes.

[Jared]

Yeah, I think it could be worse. I think it'd be worse. I really think.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, it could. You guys could be addicts.

[Jared]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

You could be math addicts. And your kids could be in, you know, cps, but you're not. This is still horrible. Yeah, it's still horrible. You guys are. You don't realize the hole you guys are in. You don't even realize the hole you saw. The hole you wanted to soak in the Hole. I know you Mormons love soaking. Yeah, but you guys are deep in there, man. Guys are deep in there and someone's not even bouncing on the bed for you.

[Sandy]

Well, we do that well enough for ourselves obviously. Yeah 4. So yeah,

[Caleb Hammer]

like what the are we doing? And you're saying you'll figure it out? That's not how this works. I'll let you guys use the fizz card. Debit card that builds credit. That doesn't let you spend more than in your checking account because you guys can't do that to save your life. To save your life. Interest fees destroyed. Horrendous. Over the limit as as always. This one's not for the first time. Capital One Platinum. Who's on this? What's going on? You probably don't know because you're spending money.

[Jared]

I think that's the one that did the double payment.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well that was the last. I thought that was the last one.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I don't know what's going on.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hey, well you owe 438.27. You're a couple years to pay it off. Minimum payment. I don't even know I'm going to say 111. It looks like that's what you tried to put towards it. Fee 38 cuz you're late purchasing. 124. $10.65 of interest. ACR Prime Video. And then payment returned. Payment returned. Cuz we never have enough money in our checking account because we are not adults. You are children. Missed payments. Oh, looks like about can just end everything now. What would Joseph Smith think?

[Jared]

Now Joseph Smith was called a prophet.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dum dum dum dum dum. Do you think I don't know. Is he looking down from his very own planet in shame?

[Sandy]

Well he doesn't get that yet. Just when Jesus comes back.

[Caleb Hammer]

So he has to wait for his own planet.

[Sandy]

Yeah, you do.

[Caleb Hammer]

What does he get colo or something? No, that's where Jesus is, right? Colo.

[Sandy]

I don't know.

[Jared]

Collab. Kol.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, that's Jesus's planet, right? Kolob.

[Sandy]

I'm a Jack Mormon, so I don't really know much about Joseph.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know what that means.

[Jared]

I wouldn't classify yourself that.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is a Jack mor.

[Sandy]

It means that I identify as Mormon

[Caleb Hammer]

but I don't really this like trans. Like a. You're transmor.

[Sandy]

Trans Mormon. That's a good one.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're like. You believe in half the golden plates.

[Sandy]

Yeah, like I pick and choose what rules I follow.

[Jared]

No, it's more like you just go to church, but don't really do much and drink coffee.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. So you get a half a planet.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Probably like a content in it only.

[Sandy]

Yeah, maybe a maybe.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you do with the whole planet?

[Sandy]

That's not really a planet. It's like a kingdom.

[Caleb Hammer]

You get a kingdom. Who's in your kingdom?

[Sandy]

Whoever you want.

[Caleb Hammer]

What, so they don't get their own kingdom? You get a kingdom.

[Jared]

Story is a family that you produce.

[Sandy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

For the family in the kingdom.

[Sandy]

Well, you can create them like God.

[Caleb Hammer]

You can just make people like little slaves. You make slaves. Black slaves.

[Jared]

You make family.

[Sandy]

Oh, no.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you make slaves to whip and abuse on your own planet.

[Sandy]

Yikes.

[Jared]

No need to bring race into this.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who's on your kingdom then? Your family.

[Jared]

Like with the family that you create.

[Caleb Hammer]

Who runs the kingdom? Us. Well, like I think you guys.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So your kids don't get their own kingdom.

[Jared]

That's kind of interesting.

[Sandy]

It's.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, it's like you guys have never thought about this once. I literally. I've done it in five minutes. And I'm not even your religion link.

[Sandy]

A chain link. Right.

[Jared]

So like they get their own.

[Caleb Hammer]

But yeah, there's a train that connects between the kingdoms. High speed rail diagram.

[Sandy]

Event venn diagram.

[Jared]

I think it's more like a mode

[Caleb Hammer]

of existence I don't understand that are linked.

[Sandy]

But this is too complicated for me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Really. This is like one of the basic tenets of your religion. Wouldn't you know?

[Sandy]

Yeah. This is why.

[Caleb Hammer]

Or be able to answer my question as an outsider.

[Jared]

We pick into a mode of existence.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, a mode of existence.

[Sandy]

We just like God. Let's say that we love God. And that's fine.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's nice. But you can answer the question. Question.

[Sandy]

But we can't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Affirm. Overdue. It's all Amazon. Pull up your Amazon.

[Sandy]

Oh no.

[Caleb Hammer]

The math was done and I'm. I'm being. I'm reading that you guys owe $906.

[Jared]

I'm.

[Caleb Hammer]

I bet it's 250 bucks a month. This is all Amazon. You're literally overdue on your at 36% affirm. Guys, this is insane. The is wrong. This is. That's insane. That is ridiculous. What the did I just witness? Overdue on our affirm. How are you overdo on your affirm? What is wrong with you guys?

[Jared]

What's affirm? What is that?

[Sandy]

The buy now, pay later.

[Caleb Hammer]

For what?

[Sandy]

Christmas?

[Caleb Hammer]

Why is your battery at 1%?

[Jared]

Cause our charger's broke on the way in, so we have been rolling without phones for a little while.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Lots of brewing handed oscilloscope for my stepdad for Christmas. I thought you said I couldn't do Christmas. It's so sad because I. Pistachio with no shells. Bust open the shells. Save the money.

[Sandy]

That was for stocking stuffers.

[Caleb Hammer]

Pistachios.

[Sandy]

Wow. Our toddler loves pistachios.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm sure they do. Clear plastic cups and Winchell and coffee syrups. A lot of them. And sonic flavor blasters and a lot of pistachio and push pops. And it's all bullshit. Except for the kids helmets on their bike. And the loofahs. It's all bullshit. And also, you don't even need loofahs these days. Come on. Just wash it. Just wash it. It's all bullshit. Take that before your phone dies. It's all bullshit. Is that a different Amazon?

[Sandy]

It is Amazon.

[Jared]

I just realized it's a work Amazon. So it's all like, parts and material.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is Hypno babies.

[Sandy]

Hypno babies.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hypno. Yes. That's.

[Sandy]

It's a birthing course.

[Caleb Hammer]

A birthing course. Wow. You're right. There is a lot of slop out there. Master Money is good. And there's a lot of good things. I've taken like some home emergency stuff, and those are good as well. There's some good things out there. There's a lot of slop. But now there's like a Tai Lopez in giving babies.

[Sandy]

Well, it's to help you not like, be in pain while you're giving birth.

[Caleb Hammer]

The first to take a course on how to not be in pain.

[Sandy]

Yeah, it works.

[Caleb Hammer]

Take the medications. Oh, man. Glad I paid hundreds of bucks for that course.

[Jared]

The first one, like, was. Was pretty traumatic. Like she. She had a really rough birth, so

[Caleb Hammer]

I did you natural birth?

[Jared]

No, it was like an emergency.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you have medications?

[Jared]

This is an emergency C section during COVID So.

[Sandy]

C section.

[Jared]

It's like.

[Sandy]

So I was.

[Caleb Hammer]

Course.

[Sandy]

Well, I was. I took that one for this past.

[Caleb Hammer]

You failed two payments on this course?

[Sandy]

Yeah, it's that off now. It's paid off now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, I'll throw it away then. But that's good. What the are we doing? Why couldn't you make your payments? Dude, Synchrony pay later. You have synchrony pay laters. Oh, sake. This is like in a firm for synchrony, it looks like. What the.

[Sandy]

Yeah, Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

I guess you owe 577. 7. Let me guess. Your minimum two payments. Like 150. Usually with that Math. What? The synchrony. Amazon pay later. So yeah, the paying for us for that. Why are we doing that?

[Sandy]

Because we didn't have. I had to get stuff for our baby.

[Caleb Hammer]

You didn't already have stuff? You've had so many kids. Isn't the fourth one where it like doesn't need stuff anymore? Isn't that kind of the thing?

[Jared]

She gets rid of all of it and then we have to buy it again.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why you keep reproducing?

[Sandy]

You guys can't stop because we built. We. We live in a double wide. I can't just be keeping stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

You guys live in a double wide even though you own a home?

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Jared]

I wanted to go somewhere cheap so we could pay off debt.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you buy or rent a double wide? You guys are in a double wide?

[Sandy]

We're renting it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Jared]

Oh, we were renting it because it's super cheap.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Yeah. But is it a good area?

[Sandy]

Yeah, it's a good area.

[Jared]

It's a really good area.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Really Literally rival wide community right across

[Jared]

the street is all custom homes and then. And we're just back to desert. It's a really nice area.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. What about the neighborhood of the double wides?

[Jared]

It's really nice.

[Sandy]

Oh yeah, it's fine.

[Caleb Hammer]

The people there are good.

[Sandy]

They have goats and chickens.

[Caleb Hammer]

That doesn't mean they're good. But okay.

[Jared]

It's nice and quiet. There's only like three houses on the street. So.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Double wides. What is this?

[Sandy]

Is that Sezzle?

[Caleb Hammer]

You sent it?

[Sandy]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sezzle. Never even heard of it.

[Jared]

What is that?

[Caleb Hammer]

What the. Is the sesil?

[Sandy]

Buy now, pay later.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh my goodness. You're addicted to every Buy now, pay later. You can get fined.

[Jared]

That's scary.

[Sandy]

Yeah. That was a Christmas present.

[Caleb Hammer]

$304. 73 7. You're. Oh, it's. It doubles up on a monthly basis. $202. $203 a month. So paid off in a month and a half. But what the were you getting? Sportsman Warehouse. What is it?

[Sandy]

A scope for a gun?

[Caleb Hammer]

For who? I thought you didn't have time. I usually.

[Jared]

I mean I take the boys out on the weekends and I'll take my guns.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can they even walk like. Yeah. What ages are these? What were they?

[Sandy]

Five. Three. Three months and our seven year old.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I guess they can. Okay. Just not the. Not the newborn. Obviously. My.

[Jared]

My pastime is just hiking around out in the desert. It's pretty cheap scope.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are we scoping out and what. What's a little spiders? What are there to kill Everything.

[Jared]

It's just for a deer hunt. But there's deer in the desert.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Damn. Deer are everywhere. Okay.

[Sandy]

Javelina.

[Caleb Hammer]

The.

[Sandy]

Did you call me javelina?

[Jared]

I mean what like bores? Like pigs?

[Caleb Hammer]

Those are everywhere too.

[Jared]

They're not big.

[Sandy]

They're big.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why do you possibly owe 34,000 to your family? What the.

[Jared]

That was part of that real estate thing where I was trying to do the mobile home park and it just went so far south.

[Caleb Hammer]

Tell me what happened.

[Jared]

Well, we got all the plans drawn up and everything was good to go. And then when it came time to actually drill the well and actually get the utilities.

[Caleb Hammer]

What were you spending money on up to that point? I need you to be able to self diagnosis so I know you won't do it again even in your own business.

[Jared]

Today it was buying. So the mistake I made was actually buying the mobile homes before. Beforehand.

[Caleb Hammer]

Before the land.

[Jared]

Yeah, it was bad.

[Caleb Hammer]

How many did you get?

[Jared]

3.

[Caleb Hammer]

3. And originally.

[Jared]

It was originally like 75, 000. We've paid like 50, 40 off.

[Caleb Hammer]

Goodness. And your family invested into it?

[Jared]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

How'd you convince them? Why did they even go for it?

[Jared]

It was gonna cash flow pretty well.

[Caleb Hammer]

It did not cash flow very well.

[Jared]

It did not. You're right. So the, the issue that I had is I had got stuck with these houses that I had to to sell and the market was kind of turning down at the time. It was not. It was not a good place to be.

[Sandy]

Yeah. So the person we borrowed it from is like somebody that typically would like invest in stuff like that. But it just went very.

[Caleb Hammer]

What a mess. Yeah, what a mess. What a mess.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

When was. Was this?

[Sandy]

20, 21 or 22.

[Caleb Hammer]

So if it was. It was an investment or was it a loan? Cuz you guys are saying it's a owed to family. If it's an investment, everyone lost their money. You don't owe them back.

[Jared]

That's the thing. I'm covering it cuz I don't want to do that to somebody.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well sure, but they real. But okay. No, no, no. Were they expecting it as a loan that be paid back or an investment? Because an investment might get lost in a failed business venture.

[Jared]

It was written up like an investment, but it was. It's more of like turning.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's better written up.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

How has it been turned into a loan?

[Jared]

Because it was like okay then if I want you to repay it and we're going to do a little interest on there.

[Caleb Hammer]

They want you to repair it.

[Jared]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

But honestly I really Think they should take it as a loss if they viewed it as an investment. I really like, I understand you wanting to pay it back, but it was a short.

[Jared]

They're going to have a short term position in the ownership and probably sell anyway. So it wasn't really.

[Caleb Hammer]

Still, it's an investment. Well, that doesn't make. Okay, do you have a minimum payment to them? I disagree.

[Jared]

No, no, it's just kind. They were, they asked for a minimum monthly payment.

[Sandy]

They're supposed to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, what did they ask for?

[Jared]

They asked for what? 500.

[Sandy]

1500.

[Caleb Hammer]

1500?

[Jared]

No, no, it was, it was like a thousand. And I was like, no, I'm literally at the note. It was like 500.

[Sandy]

And she wrote that down and said 1500.

[Caleb Hammer]

I need to know, what do I put?

[Jared]

I'm just paying whatever. So when I do another real estate.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why would a minimum monthly payment. That we could agree with them on B.

[Sandy]

Probably 500.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, we'll do 500. Sake, guys. What a mess. What a good luck mess. Verizon, Is it in collections?

[Sandy]

Yeah, I think so.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is wrong with you? What the. Okay. Verizon in collections. Cns. What's this? Cns. What's cns?

[Sandy]

Caron.

[Caleb Hammer]

Caron for what? What is the car?

[Jared]

Car is there. Is that your Expedition?

[Sandy]

Expedition, yeah. Ford Expedition.

[Caleb Hammer]

Does it drive?

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Go to the grocery store.

[Sandy]

Noted.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so you owe 13, 619. What do you think it's worth?

[Jared]

Probably eight.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

8,700. What's the interest rate?

[Sandy]

Oh, I don't know.

[Jared]

Sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why couldn't you get a statement for me so I, I could know.

[Sandy]

We couldn't get the statement.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is wrong with you guys? $448 a month. Probably a shitty interest rate, I bet. Giving you.

[Jared]

I think it's high credit.

[Sandy]

Yeah. You said 27.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, 27.

[Jared]

I'm not sure.

[Sandy]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is wrong with you?

[Jared]

I had a house, I was flipping and I was like, I'm just going to take that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Stop with this flipping.

[Sandy]

That's what I'm saying. He's a good flipping.

[Caleb Hammer]

Western fund. What is this car payment? That's. That's a work truck. Okay. For work.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you use it for work. Do you put it.

[Sandy]

He drives it Personal.

[Jared]

It got stolen and totaled earlier this year. So what?

[Caleb Hammer]

So have they forgiven? It has insurance.

[Jared]

I'm in the middle of it right now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I'm going to cross it off for now. Geez, that's. That sucks. Well, I mean, it's okay because hopefully it'll get forgiven. Okay. 4890 now at the Home Depot. Receive 12 months special financing and free basic installation on carpet projects with lifeproof. Lifeproof with pet proof technology. Home decorators collection and traffic Master carpets. Bring a new look to your floors or give them a durable surface that stands up to life's tough messes. Get 12 months special financing on installed carpet projects right now at the Home Depot. Offer valid March 12 through March 29, 2026. Exclusions and additional charges may apply for licenses. See homedepot.com LicenseDENumbers this is a mortgage. Oh, that's a minimum. Oh you guys. Mortgage is $5,000 a month. What your income is? No, what you were overdue.

[Jared]

Oh

[Sandy]

yeah. I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Real estate class, budgeting class, debt class, investing class and the downwinds budgeting guys. What the. Use all the tools. How did you guys this up? This is insane. You're buying on a mortgage and someone pays the majority of it. What is wrong with you?

[Jared]

But you get get for the rent like 22. 2,200.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, and it's 2,495. Why can't you come up with the extra 200?

[Jared]

There's a solar system on there too that we have to pay for. Cuz that's not included in the lease.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you chose to get that. Yeah, you chose to get that, you little.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I've tried to tell him to up it but he won't. I don't.

[Jared]

I like the tenants. I think they're great. So I don't.

[Caleb Hammer]

You should be able to make this payment regardless of you, you, you. What's wrong with you guys? Can't even contribute. Don't you have to give a certain amount of money to get your own planet anyway? No, that's Scientology. Well,

[Sandy]

you can come to church with us.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are there good snacks?

[Sandy]

Yeah, she brings them.

[Caleb Hammer]

I will come one time.

[Sandy]

Okay, I'll hold you to that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wow. Can it be here? I'm not going to Arizona. Sure. No offense to Brandon. That's like I don't. There's not many states that are in my non desirables but Arizona is one of them.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is like why? What am I gonna do? Look at sand. Yippee. I'll go to west Texas. I'm still in Texas.

[Jared]

Mountains.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'll go to west Texas and at least I'm still in Texas. You drove through them and. No, you probably came through the Panhandle. You didn't go through El Paso, did you? No.

[Sandy]

Yeah we did.

[Caleb Hammer]

They can't even agree on if they came through El Paso.

[Jared]

I just dropped. Yes, we did.

[Sandy]

We did go through El Paso.

[Caleb Hammer]

You saw it. You saw it. You saw it.

[Sandy]

This is why I like to travel so much.

[Caleb Hammer]

We have an okay desert, don't we?

[Jared]

It looks a lot like Arizona.

[Caleb Hammer]

Exactly. It's all the same. I don't give a. I don't need to go to New Mexico. I don't need to. You're right. Actually, I would go to northern Arizona. My brother, who's not even a Mormon. Him and his gay fiance, they. They're in the Mormon capital of Utah. Why aren't you guys. So many good things are happening in Salt Lake. Salt Lake?

[Sandy]

Yeah, we want to look booming.

[Caleb Hammer]

Things are going great. Can't even agree on that. You're basically landlocked now.

[Sandy]

Well, we have custody. Custody stuff. So we can't move until.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, that is fair.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

And by the way, what's not fair is why are you behind the mortgage? I didn't get an answer for that.

[Jared]

I. Oh, I paid it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do the tenants pay on. No, you did not. It was past due. You. Do the tenants pay on time?

[Sandy]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then why didn't you?

[Jared]

It was the difference. We didn't have the money to come up with a difference.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh my goodness. You guys are broken. You're. Oh, Colton. Your negative $267 in your checking account is what you ended and you started with 564. Go get your planets early. Just go get them. Just go take the journey.

[Sandy]

It probably would feel better than this.

[Caleb Hammer]

So get your little kingdoms. Because your kingdom is crumbled. Crumbled. That cobblestone is flat.

[Jared]

Kingdom has cash flow. I mean, at least we got that.

[Sandy]

Where?

[Caleb Hammer]

Where? Cause wouldn't it hit the checking account? Yeah, for some reason we're still getting an apple bill. Well, there's an overdraft. I don't know. Who would have thought Arby's. Even though we're negative Arby's. That's wonderful. First of all, Arby's. What are we doing? Arby's. Overdraft. Overdraft. Overdraft. Let me tell you, I'm losing my mind. If you can't tell, cuz this is insane. We've only had 23 overdrafts in this checking account alone this year so far. Yo. Then this checking account, which I'm sure there's overdraft cuz it's only at a few bucks. Is DoorDash and McDonald's Black R Coffee, Apple belt, Apple Bell, Affirm, Amazon, Uber eats. Uber eats. Don't Use your Ford that you pay $1,000 trillion for Prime Video. McDonald's Instacart. Instacart. Nintendo Energy Drinks. Apples Energy Drinks. McDonald's Energy Drink. White pages. Apple belt. Apple bill. Instacart. Door dashing fries. Lava Island. Instacart. Instacart. Instacart. Apple belt. Our ant Apple Bell. Chick fil a firm affirm. Instacart. What are we doing? Instagram, Instagram, Instagram, Apple Bell. Instacart. Instacart. Instacart. Sherman Williams. Is that not on a business account? Yeah, Mormon. Lava Island. Lava Island. Lava Island. Lava Island. What is Lava Island?

[Sandy]

It was for our daughter's character.

[Jared]

What the hell are all those charges from Lava Island?

[Caleb Hammer]

Borrowed. That was a one time Roku Zelling. Chick fil a McDonald's Amazon energy drink. Amazon energy drink. Roku again. A double Roku. Motu's getting Roku man. Why?

[Sandy]

It's a bible.

[Caleb Hammer]

Energy drink. Energy drink. Energy drink. Energy drink. Instacart Apple bill. Chick fil a in n out. Instacart Energy drink. Chick fil a Kill me now. In n out. Energy drink. No savings, no retirement.

[Sandy]

I have $30 infidelity.

[Caleb Hammer]

Here's the.

[Sandy]

So if that helps.

[Jared]

It's going to bail us out.

[Sandy]

Here it is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Here's the thing.

[Sandy]

It's growing.

[Caleb Hammer]

I knew this from the beginning of the conversation. Yalls relationship in iuv. This is brilliant. Broken step one. Couples therapy. Okay, not an option. Religious or not, I don't give a. So you can do it in the Mormonism. They'll probably just tell you to beat her, right? Maybe.

[Jared]

Probably tell me to listen to her more.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh really?

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, progressive Mormon church. We love that. Well done Mormons. I hear they decided to consider black people as humans a couple decades kids ago.

[Sandy]

So yeah.

[Jared]

What are you talking about?

[Caleb Hammer]

Woke very woke of you.

[Jared]

We're catching up.

[Sandy]

Not my rule or.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it was that black people could go to heaven. I think they decided a couple years ago.

[Sandy]

I don't know anything about that.

[Jared]

I think congratulations M 1800.

[Caleb Hammer]

You got your own kingdom. Just it took you a while. Okay, first step couples therapy. Go through the master your money series. Use the community and use the budgeting app. That's not an option. And number two, I think we all saw this coming. Unfortunately, this is including your business accounts which affects all this. I don't even have half the picture. I'm sitting you down with Reed. He does our books. He is going to do your books for a month and just tell you what the is happening then he is going to do your personal book. So I'm giving you guys two sessions. I'm paying double. I'm doing doing double read. Okay. He is our in house guy. We rarely have to use him. But you guys are. This is complicated and I only have half the story anyway so we're not making a budget. Doesn't make sense. He will and it'll be good and you guys need to go on with it and I'm gonna go on to the post show because my life. I'm dying and I need to step outside for a second because blood pressure. Oh my goodness. Click the join button. Join us for the post show and Hammer Elite. Best member on YouTube. So I know there was one thing we couldn't talk about in the main episode.

[Sandy]

There's no easy way out of this. And it seems like you're just looking for the easy way out of this situation. Is now a good time to bring up a secret?

[Jared]

You're joking, right?

[Sandy]

No, I'm not joking. Yeah, you don't have. That's what I was told to do too.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I don't forget to download the new dollar wise budgeting app. This is officially now the best budgeting app on the market and I'm giving you a special deal to download, but only through March 31st. Take a free three day trial to test it out and then you get the monthly plan at a 33 discount for the first three months or the annual plan at an insane 50 discount. And with the annual, you get my budget friendly cookbook and my brand new 30 day detailed budget meal plan signed by me and mailed directly to you after March 31st. The cookbook is going away forever. So this is literally your last chance. Don't miss the opportunity of a lifetime download Dollar Wise. To start your free trial go to Dollarwise.com or click the link below.