Financial Audit Podcast: "I Had To Kick This Insane Guest Off Financial Audit"

Host: Caleb Hammer
Guest: Macy
Date: March 7, 2025

Episode Overview

In this especially combustible episode, host Caleb Hammer sits down with Macy, a 26-year-old Domino’s employee and former Marine from Colleen, Texas, whose personal finances are in chaos as a result of a compulsive commitment to horses, a house she arguably can’t afford, and a cycle of high-interest debt. The conversation quickly devolves into frustration as Caleb tries to help Macy see the gravity of her situation, while Macy clings to her priorities—even when Caleb points out their long-term consequences. Notably, Caleb ends up stopping the interview in exasperation, marking this as one of the most dramatic and contentious episodes in the podcast’s history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Macy’s Background and Income Sources

• Military background: Joined the Marine Corps at 18, was stationed in various states, and returned to Texas after service.
• Current employment: Works at Domino’s for $9.75/hr, ~30 hours per week; not interested in management.
  • "If they want me to be, I will be [manager], but… I’m not interested.” (01:54 – Macy)
• Disability income: Receives $3,800 per month from the VA for 100% disability.
  • “Honestly, there hasn’t been a single person that serves in the military that doesn’t have some kind of disability. So yes, I am 100% with the VA.” (02:59 – Macy)
• Total monthly take-home: About $5,200/month (wages + disability).

2. Ambitions Versus Reality

• Dreams: Macy wants to live on land and train horses, eventually earning income from breeding and competing.
  • “I want to train my horses and go and show them and earn money… Start a small breeding program.” (06:15 – Macy)
• Reality check: Caleb repeatedly presses Macy on the lack of a concrete, realistic plan for achieving these goals.
  • “To get to this goal, you are requiring a lot of money and we’re not getting there at $1,400 a month.” (05:14 – Caleb)

3. Horses & Financial Consequences

• Current situation: Macy owns two horses; one acquired at 14, the other purchased recently.
• Horses’ annual cost: Caleb breaks down the average cost per horse as $15,800/year, totaling approx. $31,600/year for two.
  • “Fifty percent of your income is dedicated to horses.” (05:05 & 42:19 – Caleb)
  • “That’s what I want to do with her. Gotta start somewhere.” (05:08 – Macy)
• Rationalization: Macy views the horses as non-negotiable—her life passion.
  • “Not if my goal involves the horses that I have.” (44:14 – Macy)
  • “The horse thing is a non-negotiable thing.” (55:10 – Macy)

4. Debt, House Purchase & Poor Financial Decisions

• Bought a house sight-unseen in 2022 using a VA loan: $129,216 remaining; $976/month mortgage.
• Massive use of high-interest debt: Took out loans to start utilities, replace windows, and cover emergencies—all at double-digit interest rates.
  • “You borrowed $1,350 but then financed on top of that. The finance charge was $1,115.73.” (31:33 – Caleb)
  • “You literally borrowed $1,080 with a finance charge of $549.” (62:48 – Caleb on Cross River Bank loan)
  • "You borrowed [just] to get tires." (70:24 – Macy)
• Cycle of borrowing: Frequently uses personal loans and cash advances to pay for basic living expenses and ongoing horse care.
• Credit card debt: Owes $20,178 on a Navy Federal credit card, with a $451 minimum monthly payment that absorbs almost a third of her earned (working) income.
  • “Thirty-three percent of your earned income goes to this on a monthly basis… It takes 31 years to pay off.” (73:29 – Caleb)

5. Financial Blind Spots & Evading Tough Truths

• Victim mentality: Macy blames creditors for offering too much credit, sees herself as unlucky, contrasts herself to those “worse off.”
  • “But they should have known better than to give an 18-year-old [that much credit].” (11:42 – Macy)
  • “It makes me feel better about myself.” (16:44 – Macy on comparing herself to others' worse situations)
• No respect for the dollar: Shows little concern for sums over $100, often dismissing Caleb’s concern as overreaction.
  • “$100 is like—not insignificant, but… in the grand scheme of things…” (25:45 – Macy)
  • “You have no respect for the dollar… Because it is money that you are not working for, I think you have none of the dollar.” (26:04 – Caleb)

6. The Numbers Don’t Add Up: Goals vs. Habits

• Lack of actionable plan: When pressed to quantify the potential income from showing or breeding horses, Macy can't provide details.
  • “What places make money?” (50:08 – Caleb)
  • “I don’t know.” (50:06 – Macy)
  • “Why are you doing it if you don’t know?!” (48:08 – Caleb)
• Constant rationalization: Macy continually invokes passion, determination, and comparisons to justify her financial choices, instead of facing the math.
  • “I just have determination.” (46:43 – Macy)

7. Caleb’s Growing Frustration—and the Breaking Point

• Refusal to make financial sacrifices: Macy declares her horses are non-negotiable, regardless of cost or consequence.
  • “Then I’ll work more.” (55:25 – Macy)
  • “No, you're working 30 hours a week, and you said you’re grinding. You can’t work more… You have no respect for money.” (55:27 – Caleb)
• Caleb loses patience: The host becomes openly frustrated with Macy’s lack of seriousness, use of humor as a deflection, and unwillingness to face reality, finally ending the conversation abruptly.
  • “All right, I’m done. I’m done. I’m done… This is the dumbest thing. This is the worst conversation I’ve had in my life.” (81:18 – Caleb)
  • “You’re not willing to negotiate on something that you objectively cannot afford. This is embarrassing—for you, not for me.” (65:02 – Caleb)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On borrowing for utilities & windows:
  • “You paid a fee of $1,500 to turn on utilities, by the way. That’s how that works out.” (36:02 – Caleb)
• On Macy’s ‘non-negotiable’ horse habit:
  • "There's a reason I like animals more than people." (16:05 – Macy)
  • “That’s what I want to do with her. Gotta start somewhere.” (05:08 – Macy)
  • “You have goals you’re trying to get to and you couldn’t start utility payments and you can’t afford anything related to your house. So I think it is price and life impact. And I don’t know what the you’re talking about.” (35:36 – Caleb)
• On financial denial:
  • “You can't afford life. You can't afford anything.” (79:17 – Caleb)
• On potential earnings from horses:
  • “Tell me the why.” (48:12 – Caleb) — Macy is unable to provide any numbers.
• On Macy’s long-term outlook:
  • “You are never going to be in a financially well spot. I know how people like you work unless you completely change this around.” (60:45 – Caleb)
• On Macy’s dad allowing her to take ownership of a horse at 14:
  • "You cannot put a lifetime commitment horse, lifetime commitment on a 14-year-old. That is crazy." (68:13 – Caleb)
• Episode low point and abrupt ending:
  • "This is the dumbest thing. This is the worst conversation I've had in my life... I'm ending this because this is the dumbest thing. This is the worst conversation I've had in my life." (81:28 – Caleb)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------| | 00:05 | Caleb reveals Macy spends 50% on horses | | 01:31 | Macy: Marine to Domino’s career history | | 03:06 | $3,800 monthly VA disability payments | | 05:32 | Macy owns two horses; expenses breakdown | | 11:42 | Blaming creditors, victim mindset | | 21:39 | $23k window loan at 10% interest | | 31:33 | High-interest utility loan cycle | | 35:08 | Horse costs—annual, lifetime, opportunity | | 42:19 | Reality of mortgage + horse costs | | 55:10 | Horses declared as “non-negotiable” | | 65:02 | “You’re not willing to negotiate…” | | 73:29 | $20k+ credit card; 33% of earned income | | 81:18 | Caleb ends the conversation in frustration |

Summary & Takeaways

• Macy’s finances are dominated by two costly decisions: her horses (a lifelong, high-cost hobby and a recent impulsive purchase) and her house (purchased sight unseen, requiring extensive repairs financed at high interest).
• Core financial pitfalls:
  • Massive, chronic use of high-interest debt and credit
  • No clear plan or research backing major life choices
  • Rationalizing poor decisions, dismissing impact of debt
  • Non-negotiable spending on horses, even if it means borrowing for basics
  • Dismissal of advice—Caleb is unable to help her recalibrate her priorities
• Host’s reaction: Caleb moves from concern and tough love to open exasperation, eventually pulling the plug on the session.
  • “All right, I’m done… Download my new, simpler budget app today and take control of your money once and for all.” (19:00, 81:28 – Caleb)
• Broader lesson: Without honesty and willingness to address root problems, no amount of budgeting apps or coaching can alter one’s financial trajectory.

Listen if:

• You want to hear an unfiltered financial intervention that doesn’t go as expected.
• You’re curious how deeply personal priorities can derail financial planning.
• You appreciate candid, sometimes harsh financial advice and how it can clash with strong-willed guests.

Hammer Financial Score:
Not issued—Caleb aborted the audit, calling it the “worst conversation” ever on the show.

For more episodes, personal finance tools, or to appear on the show, visit calebhammer.com.