Financial Audit Podcast - Episode Summary

Podcast: Financial Audit
Host: Caleb Hammer
Episode: The Most Insane Debt I've Ever Seen | Financial Audit
Date: September 26, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Caleb Hammer sits down with Cassie and Andre, a married couple from Oklahoma, to dissect and discuss their deeply troubled financial situation. Facing the imminent arrival of a new baby and managing multiple streams of debt, their household has accrued a staggering amount of “bad debt” through a combination of unsecured loans, consumer purchases, and poor financial choices. The episode is a raw, sometimes contentious, and often bewildering exploration of dysfunctional money management, addictive spending habits, and the consequences of ignoring the basics of personal finance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Income & Household Finances

• Cassie (29): Works at a child development center, making $22/hr for 35 hours/week. Monthly net: ~$2,000.
• Andre (33): Maintenance engineer, $22.81/hr, 40 hours/week. Monthly net: ~$2,600.
• Rental Income: Roommates pay $900/mo covering part of the mortgage/utilities.
• Total Monthly Income: ~$4,600 (excluding occasional CashApp/eBay transactions).

2. Perpetual Financial Struggle

• The couple exists paycheck-to-paycheck, with no emergency fund despite a median household income for their area (Oklahoma).
• Cassie explains: “We’re fine until we’re not.” [03:15]
• Andre notes a lack of wiggle room: “All of our monthlies get paid, but there’s no wiggle room past that. No emergency fund.” [03:18]

3. Communication & Money Roles

• Historically poor communication about finances; only recently did they merge finances into a joint account.
• Andre: “She says she wants a thing, and I make it happen... I didn’t have an issue with it until now because we’re expecting a baby.” [05:28]
• Cassie admits to a lack of collaborative budgeting: “I’d rather just be told what to do.” [12:18]

4. Allowances & Control

• Andre provides Cassie with a specified “allowance” post-bills—a system both describe as infantilizing and frustrating.
• Caleb: “You’re about to be a mother of a child and you’re being given an allowance. What is going on? That’s weird.” [06:48]

5. Spending Problems—Both Sides

• Both accuse the other of being the problem spender, but both have clear spending issues:
  • Cassie: Big-ticket items—electronics, conventions, gadgets.
  • Andre: Nicotine, soda, energy drinks, and smaller “justified” daily outlays.
• Andre admits: “My purchases are smaller increments. I’m sure it adds up to around the same… But it’s smaller increments.” [13:52]
• Revealing quote: “We go through electronics and computers like people go through underwear in this house.” - Cassie [33:50]

6. Debt: Shocking Volume, Varied Origins

• Total Debt: $168,000 (incl. $96k mortgage, ~$72k “bad debt” (credit cards, payday loans, utilities, computers, electronics)).

• Payday loans, Affirm/Afterpay loans for consumer purchases, collections, student loans, multiple delinquent accounts.

• Examples of debt insanity:

  • $3,300+ gaming PC on Affirm (broken on arrival due to faulty parts).
  • Repeatedly trading in and upgrading electronics within weeks.
  • Buying a $1,000+ gaming device (Steam Deck) and reselling it at a loss after minimal use.
  • Maxed-out subprime credit cards ($490, $495), several in collections.
  • High-interest car loans ($26K on Camry, $27K on F-150—both underwater).
  • Payday loans, multiple accounts in collections.
  • Borrowing money from roommate/tenant for emergency home repair.

• Notable quote: “This is some of the most insane behavioral issues I’ve ever seen from people that are almost 30 and well within their 30s.” - Caleb Hammer [48:08]

7. Lifestyle Justifications

• Justifying expensive gaming gifts (gaming PCs, game consoles) to children and relatives, including a $1,100 PlayStation for a nephew with medical issues.
• Rationale: “I spent a lot of years where I couldn’t buy them anything. I know it was a dumb financial move, but I’m going to die on that hill.” - Andre [40:35]
• Both frequently make impulse purchases and seek validation/competition through spending (“hobby hopping” and outspending each other).

8. Repeated Debt Cycle & Addictions

• Cassie has a history of payday loans and revolving debt, buying consumer items with borrowed money, and defaulting—destroyed credit.
• Andre reveals past addiction to in-game purchases (~$92,000 on League of Legends skins lost due to account ban). [53:15]
• Both struggle with impulse control and admit to consciously making poor decisions, often enabled by each other.

9. Family Dynamics & External Support

• Free child care due to Cassie’s job.
• Andre provides sporadic, non-formal child support for children from a previous marriage, plus covering school/activities directly.
• Cassie has a pattern of quietly borrowing “emergency” money from her grandmother and not sharing with Andre.
• Both have borrowed money from friends/tenants for emergencies, further blurring boundaries between personal and household finances.

10. Budget Realities & Bankruptcy Recommendation

• Their true monthly needs, covering just minimums and essentials, total over $5,260, exceeding their combined income + roommate rent.
• Caleb bluntly walks them through an exercise in budgeting, showing they are financially insolvent and would take over two decades to pay off just current debt at their current surplus (which is theoretical, given their overspending patterns).
• Caleb’s Verdict: "Bankruptcy. Change your behavior for three months—sit down, budget, cut out the BS, show you can live conservatively. If you can’t, you’re going to be right back here. Then file for bankruptcy, because your credit is already destroyed.” [92:04]

11. Hammer Financial Score & Final Critique

• Scoring:
  • Spending/Budget: 0/10 – “You overspent.”
  • Debt: 0/10 – “You have collections.”
  • Emergency Fund: 0/10 – “Nothing in savings.”
  • Retirement: 2/10 – “Dramatically behind.”
  • Real Estate: 7/10 – “A little equity in a house you don’t even like.”
• Final Hammer Score: 2/10 [93:14]
• Caleb’s parting words are blunt. He points out the futility of their situation absent drastic change and calls out both for shifting blame, avoiding responsibility, and making choices that endanger their own and their (future) child’s security.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:36] Andre: "I didn't have an issue with it until now because we're expecting a baby, so it's becoming a problem."
• [06:48] Caleb: "You're about to be a mother of a child and you're being given an allowance. What is going on? That's weird."
• [11:32] Cassie: "I was recycling payday loans."
• [13:52] Andre: "My purchases are smaller increments. I'm sure it adds up to around the same... So I'm to blame too."
• [18:13] Cassie: "I'd rather get the best one." (On repeatedly upgrading gaming systems)
• [28:00] Caleb: “You guys spend more than you make. What are you doing to pay it off now? ... I don't even know if this budget will work. We'll find out.”
• [33:50] Cassie: "We go through electronics and computers like people go through underwear in this house."
• [40:41] Andre: “But my nephew was born with a heart condition... I'll defend heart. I know it was a dumb financial move, but I'm going to die on that hill also.”
• [48:08] Caleb: “This is some of the most ridiculous spending I have seen on this show… Not even talking about the debt. Spending alone, some of the most insane behavioral issues I've ever seen...”
• [53:15] Andre: “Like 92,000.” (On in-game purchases at age 19)
• [92:04] Caleb: “File for bankruptcy… Your credit’s already so destroyed it doesn’t even matter.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:45 - Introductions, professions, household income
• 03:00 - Struggling with bills, living paycheck-to-paycheck
• 05:08 - Money communication breakdown and joint account story
• 11:32 - Revealing history of payday loans
• 13:52 - Finger-pointing: who spends more?
• 18:13 - Constant upgrades of electronics/devices
• 19:47 - Spending exceeds income—Caleb reveals shocking monthly outflows
• 20:28 - Caleb’s reaction to total monthly spending
• 22:16 - Debt summary ($168k total, $72k bad debt)
• 29:02, 33:48, 41:01 - Dissection of ridiculous consumer debts (gaming PCs, consoles, furniture via payday/affirm/lease-to-own schemes)
• 40:41 - Rationalizing expensive gifts to family
• 47:01 - Cassie banned from Affirm; abuse of fintech loan products
• 53:15 - $92,000 spent on in-game skins
• 58:09 - Andre claims to be aggressively job hunting, can’t find second job
• 68:00 - Unpaid/forborne student loans coming due
• 79:01 - Overdue, maxed-out credit cards/subscriptions
• 84:41 - Cassie’s outstanding collections inventory (retail cards, payday loans, phone bills)
• 86:07 - Vicious cash advance cycles and dying balances
• 89:10 - Budget breakdown: astronomical debt service eats up their income
• 92:04 - Caleb’s hard advice: behavior change + bankruptcy
• 93:14 - Final “Hammer financial score” (2/10)

Takeaways for the Listener

This episode stands as a dramatic cautionary tale about unchecked consumerism, lack of budgeting, and the dangers of using high-interest financial products to chase short-term gratification. Despite a serviceable income for their region, Cassie and Andre’s refusal to communicate, plan, or change behavior has left them teetering on financial ruin just as a new child is due.

Caleb’s unvarnished, sometimes confrontational approach effectively highlights:

• The spiral of debt enabled by “small” recurring bad decisions
• The dangers of co-dependent, enablement-heavy relationships
• How much easier it is to dig a financial hole than to climb out
• The necessity of real, behavioral change—not just more equity or income—to break the cycle

Conclusion

The Most Insane Debt I've Ever Seen is exactly that: a litany of mismanaged credit, impulsive spending, and mutual enablement. For those not listening in, this summary gives a full color, warts-and-all look into a modern financial trainwreck—and the hope (or at least the prescription) for climbing out, if the couple is finally willing to face reality.