This Has Never Happened Before | Financial Audit

Summary

Financial Audit Podcast – Summary

Episode Title: This Has Never Happened Before | Financial Audit
Host: Caleb Hammer
Guest: Caleb (33, IT Manager, Las Vegas, NV)
Date: September 17, 2025

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Overview

This episode features Caleb, a 33-year-old IT manager who claims to be "the smartest guy in every room," but is struggling to translate his intelligence into sound financial behaviors. The conversation is a mix of tough love and financial reality as Caleb Hammer and co-host Lindsay dissect the guest’s contradictory approaches to net worth, spending, debt, and future planning. The episode explores themes of denial, rationalization, compulsive spending, debt consolidation traps, the gaming addiction spillover from gambling, and the urgent need for behavior change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Guest’s Financial Perspective and Mindset

• Caleb describes himself as rational and "well-informed," but dismisses net worth as "just trivia" [00:46, 07:00, 29:39]
  • "Net worth is just trivia. I don't really weigh that." (Guest, 07:14)
• He prefers short-term enjoyment over long-term planning; admits to having previously been "extremely broke."
• Acknowledges recent change of heart influenced by his more financially conscious girlfriend [09:07]
  • "My current girlfriend, she's way more money conscious than I was... made me grow up a little bit." (Guest, 09:07)
• Lacks substantial savings, disregards retirement investing, and resists budgeting beyond what feels "comfortable."

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2. Income, Debt, and Irrational Spending Habits

• Income: $6,000/month take-home as an IT manager in Las Vegas [01:37]
• Total Debt: Approximately $36,000, including recent debt consolidation loans [02:36]
• Spending Pattern: Spent $22,723 in a single month, attributed partially to a debt consolidation loan [03:30, 03:45]
• Debt Consolidation History: Second debt consolidation in recent years, without behavior change [03:54]
  • "Anyone who does what you do, you come back on a year later, it's going to be double the debt." (Caleb Hammer, 03:59)
• Bougie Purchases: Repeated large, impulsive purchases—$2,500 guitar, $10,000 computer, plans for $5,000 TV; expresses need for "the latest and greatest" in everything [22:19-22:54]
• Rationalizes big spending with "research" and "a spreadsheet," but fails to follow through with debt payoff or savings [49:42, 53:08]

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3. Addictive Behaviors and Substitutions

• From Gambling to Gaming: Stopped heavy gambling but replaced it with compulsive spending on online games (e.g., Star Citizen—$1,300+ per year, $900 for a virtual ship) [34:00]
  • "Guilty pleasure... something I really enjoy doing, and it's hard to say no sometimes." (Guest, 34:17)
• Still gambles occasionally—rationalizes it as "every three months," but host calls this a recipe for backsliding [17:08]
• Extensive and frequent food delivery via DoorDash and similar services—often for 7-Eleven or fast food multiple times a day [82:13–84:05]
• Subscribes to multiple luxury and entertainment services, including triple duplications like three YouTube Premiums [89:13]

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4. Debt Structure and Poor Financial Products

• Debt Spread: Multiple maxed out credit cards, high-interest Affirm loans, recent car lease with $2,000 down (via Affirm at 36% interest), new store card, and a recent 30%+ SoFi personal loan for consolidation [56:00 onwards]
  • "You are living a $200,000 lifestyle on $100,000 a year." (Caleb Hammer, 57:38)
  • Minimum Monthly Debt Payments: Over $2,500/month [90:16]
• Behavior Rationalization: Claims to be logical but repeatedly fails to make prudent financial decisions
• Asset Liquidation: Recently cashed out a small 401k to “pay off debts,” but the money is still just sitting idle post-penalties [87:06]

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5. Relationship & Life Decisions Impacted by Money

• Girlfriend Influence: His girlfriend’s fiscal discipline is motivating minor changes, but real change is lacking [09:07]
• Cohabitation Issues: Missed out on moving in with girlfriend due to insufficient savings for rental deposits and down payments [10:08-10:53]
• Lifestyle vs. Planning: Continues to prioritize “current happiness” over responsible long-term actions like saving for retirement or building assets
• Secretive Behavior: Took out loans and cash advances for relationship events without involving or informing his partner [77:02]

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6. Host’s Analysis & Notable Quotes

• Denial and Rationalization Theme:
  • "Your research has led to net worth being an imaginary concept? No, it's just math." (Caleb Hammer, 07:04)
  • "I don't give a shit about your special little spreadsheet... all that matters is what is actually happening." (Caleb Hammer, 72:18)
• On Addictive and Self-destructive Spending:
  • "You live such a horrible, disgusting life, if we're being completely candid." (Caleb Hammer, 83:34)
  • "Saying your behavior is a child. Capital one. Here we go..." (Caleb Hammer, 84:05)
• On Ineffective Debt Consolidation:
  • "You found like the worst consolidation you could get." (Co-host Lindsay, 63:16)
• On Repeated Excuses:
  • "Your worldview you have on what is bad and good, man, it makes no sense." (Caleb Hammer, 67:00)
• On Guest’s Self-view:
  • "If you're going to be the smartest guy in the room, actually listen so that you can respond to the things that are being said." (Caleb Hammer, 00:48; 76:18)

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7. Final Budget Snapshot & Financial Score

• Essentials:

  • Rent: $1,600
  • Utilities/Internet: $450/month (includes high-speed, top-tier internet)
  • Insurance: $180/month
  • Car Lease: $800/month
  • Food: $300/month (but spends vastly more on delivery)
  • Cat expenses: $40/month

• Debt: $2,500+ minimum payments/month, leaving little room for discretionary, fun, or savings money

• Score: Guest receives a 1 out of 10 on the Hammer Financial Score (rounded up from 0.6) [93:19]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• Appearance of “The Smartest Guy in the Room”:
  • "I assume I'm the smartest guy in the room as soon as I walk in. And you got to prove to me you're not an idiot." (Guest, 00:34 and repeated at 04:25)
• Host’s Frustration About Contradiction:
  • "You care about retirement but you don't give a shit... None of this is making sense." (Caleb Hammer, 08:54)
• Long-Term Rationalizing:
  • "It's incremental improvements. It's not a flip the switch overnight." (Guest, 17:58)
  • "Incremental improvements that never actually get to the place where you're in a positive means nothing to me." (Caleb Hammer, 18:01)
• Behavioral Callout:
  • "The only reason you are no longer accruing interest here is because you have a debt consolidation. So I don’t give a shit about your special little spreadsheet. All that matters is what is actually happening." (Caleb Hammer, 72:18)
• Gaming Spending Revelation:
  • “Year-to-date, $1,600 maybe [on Star Citizen].” (Guest, 34:08)
  • “The last one I got was $900, a capital ship destroyer in a video game.” (Guest, 36:30)
• Addiction Substitution Admission:
  • “Oh yeah gaming’s huge… but he has a dating simulator for $25 a month. It’s Farmville mixed with dating.” (Caleb Hammer, 38:27)
• Double Down on Denial:
  • "My mindset has to shift because I was living my best current life." (Guest, 46:07)
• Recurring Disbelief:
  • "You are living a $200,000 lifestyle on a $100,000 salary." (Caleb Hammer, 57:38)
• Budget Reality/Score:
  • “You barely make it. $5,362.26 after debts and basic living expenses, no fun money, no savings. Hammer Financial Score: 1 out of 10.” (Caleb Hammer, 92:03, 93:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:34 – Introduction of Guest’s Attitude (“I’m the smartest guy in the room.”)
• 01:37 – Guest income disclosure and Vegas cost of living discussion
• 02:26/02:36 – Debt total identified and confirmed
• 03:30–03:54 – Debt consolidation loan revealed and rationale challenged
• 06:33/07:00 – Guest’s definition of being "broke" and attitude toward net worth
• 09:07 – Girlfriend’s influence on changing financial habits
• 15:19 – Rationalization around debt consolidation, incremental improvements challenged
• 17:08 – Gambling and addiction behavior
• 22:19-22:54 – Large impulsive spending detailed
• 34:00–36:30 – Detailed conversation about Star Citizen video game spending
• 46:07/46:55 – Mindset shifts and repeated rationalization deflections
• 56:00–57:38 – Car lease, use of Affirm loan for car down payment, escalating lifestyle
• 67:00/72:18 – Host’s challenge on guest’s worldview and spreadsheet defenses
• 90:16–93:19 – Full budget breakdown and final verdict, Hammer Financial Score assigned

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Style: Tough love, confrontation, and relentless focus on the numbers. Hosts express real frustration but root their arguments in logic and genuine care for improving financial behavior.
• Humor/Relatability: Quippy exchanges about being "fat and fatter," over-the-top purchases, and “magical spreadsheets”—lighten a heavy but crucial discussion.

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Conclusion

Caleb’s episode is a masterclass in financial self-sabotage masked by rational “research” and surface-level incremental progress. Despite a strong income, he is mired in debt because of addictive spending, a refusal to confront net worth realities, and rationalizing bad decisions with empty logic or short-term rewards. Even with some external motivation (his girlfriend), real change is not yet evident and the “magical spreadsheet” mentality leaves him trapped in cycles of debt, consolidation, and denial. The hosts’ relentless fact-checking, tough love, and practical breakdowns underscore just how urgent behavior change is for long-term stability.

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For listeners: This episode is a stark warning that intelligence and a good job do not guarantee financial health. Behavior, not income or knowledge alone, determines stability—especially when rationalization, addiction, and denial are running the show.

Transcript

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[Caleb Hammer]

To watch episodes of Financial Audit a week earlier, check us out on YouTube. You don't give a about anything. Finances.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I assume I'm the smartest guy in the room. As soon as I walk in, you got to prove to me you're not an idiot.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you sure you're the smartest guy in every room?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I like to think so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Your research isn't leading anywhere.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I don't see value mixed in with net worth. Like, yeah, so retirement.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can you explain that to me please?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Net worth is just trivia, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you want to be the smartest guy in the room, actually listen so that you can respond to the things that are being said. The tools to change your life have just been upgraded. Download my budgeting app, rebranded to Dollarwise today and start your free trial. Sign up for the annual version and I'll send you my budget friendly cookbook that can't be purchased anywhere else and I'll personally sign it and mail it directly to you. Download the Dollarwise budgeting app today and take advantage of your free trial.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Hi, my name is Caleb. I am 33 from Las Vegas, Nevada and. And this is Financial Audit.

[Caleb Hammer]

Thanks for coming over to Financial Audit, Caleb with a K. Traitor of the race of Caleb. What do you do for a living?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm an IT manager.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, you are.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, I look it, huh?

[Caleb Hammer]

You look it. What are you making? Because you also look like you make a lot of money being an IT manager.

[Guest (Caleb)]

After taxes I take home 6,000amonth.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, he makes good money. Listen, Vegas, interesting situation. Definitely a boom town. Slowed down a lot since you know, recession fears, spendings have gone down but either way boomtown more expensive than it was. Still not uberly expensive compared to most things on the western side of the United States. How you living on that $6,000?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Quite comfortable, I can't complain.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, good. Why the are you on this show then?

[Guest (Caleb)]

My spending is quite wild. I am a self proclaimed bougie. I got to have the latest and greatest of everything.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then how is your. How you can't complain?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, I'm comfortable.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you're not worried about it?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm well informed so I have a very strict line of where my finances are. So.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, what's the exact number down to.

[Guest (Caleb)]

The cent that Your debt is 35,400.

[Caleb Hammer]

And change and change.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Close as I can get you off the top of my head.

[Caleb Hammer]

35,000. Okay. Are well informed.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Let me confirm because I don't know, I go in blind with the audience, but if you're going to set yourself up with that, it is $35,844.30. So. So pretty close for what it's worth. Okay. Actually that's not your total debt cuz there is an extra debt. So it's $36,143.99.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

But still pretty close.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, usually I ask this a little later, but if you're 100% con, you know, informed. Whoa. Weird things happened last month with money coming in. Well, payroll is 6355. Okay. Oh, it was a new loan disbursement hit.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What the.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because I was like, how did 31,000 hours come in? A new loan disbursement came in.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I took a.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was spent? I like this isn't going to be possible for you even to say, but I mean, what do you think was spent last month?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Every penny.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, fully informed, but it was $22,723.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was skewed pretty wildly from. So that was a debt consolidation loan. So a lot of kind of changed hands. So it looks like I spent a lot more than that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Now someone with a self confessed spending issue, why would they be doing a debt consolidation loan? Because that never really fixes any problems at all in any way whatsoever.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was a good deal. Interest rate was lower than the credit cards. So I got the offer. I'm like, I might as well.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. But that's not what fixes the problem. No, that's what has never fixed the problem in the history of the show. Anyone who does what you do, you come back on a year later, it's going to be double the debt.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah. This is my second debt consolidation loan, so I've kind of learned from the first one and this one. We'll see.

[Caleb Hammer]

You sound like you got it all figured out.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, yeah. I walk in.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you need from me then? You walk in every room.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I walk in every room.

[Caleb Hammer]

Trust me, everyone feels it.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Boom. Roasted. Oh, well, I assume I'm the smartest guy in the room as soon as I walk in. And you got to prove to me you're not an idiot. So I always kind of weigh that when my conversations like, oh, I know what I'm doing. You know, I got everything Figured out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so what do you need from me, big guy? Looks like you. You got it. I figured it out.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Solid budget. Good, good.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know why, why should for me you have it all figured out. So we're just guy in the room. Self confessed.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's not a bad idea to get other opinions, you know, do research and peer review and that doesn't see what people are doing.

[Caleb Hammer]

That doesn't sound like what you like based on how you've set your personality up.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, I'm not going to just take it at its word and just do exactly what people tell me. But I'll take that into consideration with how I do my plans.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you want me as a consideration?

[Guest (Caleb)]

As a informed third opinion from myself and other research I've been doing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, what's other research? What, what research? By the way? This is just don't spend more than you make. But yeah, sure. What is your research led to?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's been on a downward trend of total overall debt. You know, I'm doing better than I was previously. Had some issues in the past, you know, overspending. Even worse than doing now. Yeah, the last like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I mean you certainly spent more in this last month for sure than came in now. Consolidation is definitely wild. I mean if you know everything down to the core, how much went to going out to eat and. Oh, we know, we like to eat. Oh, I mean, I like to eat too. I'm filming a show where I'm literally eating right after this. So trust me, I'm there.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, believe me, right there with you. I eat out a lot, admittedly so.

[Caleb Hammer]

So that's an interesting number.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I, I couldn't tell you exactly how.

[Caleb Hammer]

Much but you're the informed one, you're the research one, you're the totals.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I know the total spend. Not, not that this much on food. This much on.

[Caleb Hammer]

Isn't that kind of what's critical?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Not really. The bottom line is what matters.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, not where things are going because you would know what you can cut in order to make that bottom line a little different.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I don't necessarily want to cut anything.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I know that. Stop setting me up.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Well, to give you some context, I've been extremely broke before. Like to. To the point where I had to trade electronics for flour and water.

[Caleb Hammer]

Would you say that you're not right now?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, I'm living extremely comfortably now. But I'm taking that into context.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is that not broke? Your net worth is positive.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Broke is where I, I couldn't acquire anything if I tried. I would have to that's poor. Sell something.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, you're broke.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm. I'm. I'm strained. I'm not. I'm not broke. I'm.

[Caleb Hammer]

Buddy, your net worth is negative even though you have a strong income. Yeah.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Net worth is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Your research didn't lead to that.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No. Net worth is an imaginary concept. I don't weigh.

[Caleb Hammer]

Your research has led to net worth being an imaginary concept, or it's really what you own versus what you owe equals net worth.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, it's just trivia. Net worth is just trivia.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, that doesn't make sense. It's a math. It's. No, it's just math. You're setting yourself up to be fat destiny. But, like, your research isn't leading anywhere.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, my research is. How could I spend optimally? You know, I'm not concerned about saving or, you know, putting.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why. Why would you not be concerned about savings?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I just haven't had that mindset, and that's slowly changing.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, no, but why are you not concerned about savings? What's your mindset?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Well, my mindset previously was money comes in, money goes out. I just spend what I make, and then as I'm getting older, I'm learning.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why was that your mindset as you're getting old? Yeah. I mean, you're 33, buddy. We're not. You're not going from 1821 hard.

[Guest (Caleb)]

You know, I'm 16 forever. You know.

[Caleb Hammer]

16 forever is an interesting mindset to have for the rest of your life.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay, so my mindset, you know, previously, just spend everything I make, and I'm not gonna say now as I get older again, but I don't want to end up, you know, working for the rest of my life. I would like to retire at some point. You know, I. I don't want to be, you know, homeless.

[Caleb Hammer]

But then why does. But. But you're saying net worth doesn't matter. That is critical when it comes to retirement. I'm confused. This is very contradicting.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I mean, net worth in comparison to, like, a retirement account. Sure. But I don't see it, like, number go up, number better. I don't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Number go up number better. I. I number go up number better. How do we say otherwise? I'm just confused. I'm really trying to get your worldview here, big guy.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm. I'm a very interesting case. You know, I. I'm a very. Don't. Don't give a. You know, I just kind of live life and.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you care about retirement, but you don't give A shit.

[Guest (Caleb)]

And you just want to let this.

[Caleb Hammer]

None of this is making sense.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm starting to. I previously did not.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is your starting to. Why are you starting to. What's different?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I. My current girlfriend, she's way more money conscious than I was. And seeing my comparison to how she kind of lives her life to how I was living my life is so stark. It kind of made me take things into contrast and kind of made me grow up a little bit, to be honest.

[Caleb Hammer]

So she's the reason why you're giving a shit now?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you guys gonna get married?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah. I mean I haven't thought too that far ahead, but if it were to happen, I'd be happy with it. I don't want to put any kind of labels on anything, but I'm happy. I'm very happy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Would you label her your girlfriend or sugar baby?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, girlfriend. She doesn't want any money.

[Caleb Hammer]

Vegas. Right. And you guys do not live together yet.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm assuming she spends most of her time at my place, but she has her own place, so we're not living together. We almost did about a year ago, but finances, her age, she's 30. Okay. Yeah. So we. We almost moved in but finances didn't work out, so we decided to take another year.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait, what happened? Tell me what happened. I mean this sounds pretty critical, being.

[Guest (Caleb)]

A little more responsible, you know, looking into renting houses potentially and down payments and costs for that. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

But splitting rent with someone seem to be financially responsible, so.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What happened? Something. Something went wrong.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It would just have been a big strain on me at the time and that kind of what gave me that kick in the ass.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait though, because you would have split rent with someone. I'm confused. What's the strain when you have no.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Savings whatsoever and you have to move.

[Caleb Hammer]

Right now, you have no savings, but rent is only on you.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I'm. I'm still confused. How would it have been harder?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Because the down payment would have been pretty massive for a house.

[Caleb Hammer]

To rent a house.

[Guest (Caleb)]

To rent a house. First year versus an apartment.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's usually month. Last month.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Type thing.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah. It'd probably been like 3,4000.

[Caleb Hammer]

You could have come up with that in a month. If you just put a little bit of effort into something.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, probably.

[Caleb Hammer]

You knew it saved more long term.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you sure you're the smartest guy in every room?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I like to think so.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you smart about?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm pretty logical, you know, I'm not very emotionally driven.

[Caleb Hammer]

Doesn't seem down so Far because if you're logical, saving more money on rent would have made more sense.

[Guest (Caleb)]

The numbers just didn't shake out when I plotted it all out.

[Caleb Hammer]

What? That's not logical. And logical numbers go up. Equals not good is not logical.

[Guest (Caleb)]

That's a separate conversation where I don't see value mixed in with net worth. Like, yes, retirement.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can you explain that to me? Please explain it logically.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I don't want to see myself as like a dragon hoarding this pile of gold.

[Caleb Hammer]

And if you're caring about retirement, how are you able to retire without a pot of gold?

[Guest (Caleb)]

That's where if it were just a retirement account and not worried about like investments and all these other things is.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What are you talking about?

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you think retirement it is? Are you not going to invest? Is it cash under the bed?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, it'll go into a, probably a Roth IRA or something where it's managed. I don't have to touch it. I'm not going to be like, oh, I want it.

[Caleb Hammer]

So you have to choose what a Roth IRA is put. You still have to choose what it's invested in within it.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's usually like Defaulted. You can pick like the safest option of stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't want to bonds, government bonds.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I will admit I am completely ignorant in that world. I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then your argument makes no sense about you not caring about net worth. And it's just, oh, I don't want to be this investing guy. What do you think getting to retirement is? You have to take care. You have to take advantage of compound growth throughout the years.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I, I again just completely ignorant. I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you're the smartest guy in the.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Room on most things.

[Caleb Hammer]

I, I will okay what you say you're logical. This, this would be the logical thing with money. And it's, it's honestly quite simple. If we're even a target date indexed retirement fund.

[Guest (Caleb)]

And I've done the calculators, like I get the general calculators.

[Caleb Hammer]

What does the calculator say? What does your research suggest?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Where you put in like your initial investment, how many years, how much you'll add every month. And you can kind of see the graph.

[Caleb Hammer]

But what's your investment? You don't even know.

[Guest (Caleb)]

None right now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then how do you do the calculator if you can't plug in what the investment is? Because usually calculates growth. Theoretical. No, what are you talking about? You're just talking about what happens If I add $20 a month and it stays a zero percent growth.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, you. You put in, like, an estimated percentage.

[Caleb Hammer]

How though, if you don't know what you're investing in?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I look at, like, the averages of different accounts. What the different accounts that are out.

[Caleb Hammer]

There counts that are out there. Dude, that ranges from losing money to making a ton.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah. And that's why it's pretty wild. I. I don't know enough about it. I. I guess another way is happening. I'm kind of scared, you know, to put money in something that I don't know anything about, you know?

[Caleb Hammer]

So you're. Again, that suggests mattress under. Money under mattress.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Right now it's nothing. It's just out the door.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that is a good point. Why the are you even thinking about this if you're obliterated in bad debt?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm starting to think about it. Starting to. I'm a baby in this regard.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Is she not willing to move in with you until. No, he gets this taken care of. I mean, I have a note that she's very frugal and. Oh, you guys have had zero conversations about cohabitating finances and if it'll be splitter. How it'll be hand.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, okay. So why the. Why would she be with you if she's like Graham Stephan frugal over there and you're just blowing everything.

[Guest (Caleb)]

We're going crazy trying to find a nice middle ground.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is that?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Being more responsible than I am now for sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

What does that even look like, buddy? You don't. You haven't done anything. You're not paying off that. All you did was a consolidation of which was your second consolidation, which has proven not to work in your past and in every consolidation in the history of the show. As in the debt doubles because he just consolidate all this debt over to here, and then you build this debt back up that.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Oh, double the debt.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yes. And that's what happened with my first one.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, who would have thought? Shocker. Yes.

[Guest (Caleb)]

And this one, I'm keeping it where it's debts paid off, and I'm just not touching it.

[Caleb Hammer]

You just did this last month. You can't say that.

[Guest (Caleb)]

But you don't say that.

[Caleb Hammer]

All I have is the history of you doing the opposite of what you just said last time.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Now, since the debt consolidation, I've been, you know, solid.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

It's been a month.

[Caleb Hammer]

You. A month?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I've been good for a month.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do we have to do this every episode? Is this. Until these episodes come out. And then. And then I can just yell at people for saying this every time because listen, here's the thing. I don't give a about what you did by the time you knew you were coming on a show where your personal finances were going to be critiqued, if you're going on a diet show, a math education show, whatever, show where you have to learn something or do something or change something. I don't care what you've done before you knew you when once you knew you were coming on the show. Because no, everyone tries to look good right before they come on the show. That's the most basic thing in the history of the world. I care about what you've done in the months leading up to that because that's actually indicative of your behavior and what you might do once you leave this studio.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

So I don't give a what you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did after you applied to come on the show you titled means nothing. It's performative.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Well, I will say the numbers look bad now. They were horrific.

[Caleb Hammer]

So it's totally. I'm confused. What, what does improved in what way? All you did was a consolidation. I don't know what you're talking about. Also, I don't even have before. All I have is what's here. And what's here is trash is horrible.

[Guest (Caleb)]

As yeah, previously I, I gambled pretty heavily. You know, there's a lot of death there and yeah, it's far too easy. And as I've come into this new mindset that's completely dropped off and okay, good.

[Caleb Hammer]

You stopped gambling. I mean, that's kind of okay.

[Guest (Caleb)]

You don't have to have.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

But I'm sure every time we have an addiction and we stop an addiction, we get that. What's the term for it? You fill it with something else. It's a filler. Oh, but I'm actually being told that you've told producers that you're still going to play slots at the new casino with your girlfriend anyway.

[Guest (Caleb)]

So occasionally, like once every three months.

[Caleb Hammer]

God, what are we talking about? I mean, that's not. Yeah, but that's the easy way to get right back into it immediately.

[Guest (Caleb)]

If you're weak willed, sure. If I'm doing it once every three months, be honest.

[Caleb Hammer]

You have proof that you are weak willed.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, I've got the opposite going for me.

[Caleb Hammer]

I have two proofs, in fact, I have three proofs that you're a weak willed one. Your numbers. You spent $1,296 even going out to eat and then a thousand hours of miscellaneous bullshit.

[Guest (Caleb)]

That's less than I thought.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you have debt and then great. So you're weak willed two and I can speak this from self way you're a F. I'm a F.A.F. we are weak willed. We would rather have greasy sweet fatty down our throat than live a longer life. Weak willed 3. You quit gambling because you knew it was bad for you. Yeah you still go every three months. Weak willed in what way can you tell me you're not I all I see are examples of how you are nothing but weak willed.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's incremental improvements. It's not a flip the switch overnight.

[Caleb Hammer]

Incremental improvements that never actually get to the place where you're in a positive means nothing to me. You can't. You cannot pat yourself on the back.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm not by doing I'm not patting on the front.

[Caleb Hammer]

I know you certainly couldn't reach but you are verbally.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm not giving myself credit. I am identifying incremental improvement from where.

[Caleb Hammer]

It'S but you know what that is doing to you. You know what that is doing to you. You are immediately finding a win in that. And your win is allowing you to comfortable go to bed at night, sleep nice and tidy, all cozy and warm. Okay With a sleep apnea machine and everything. The the fact is that is not a win for you to feel comfortable. Just like debt consolidation is not a win for you to feel comfortable. Because even if you don't build up the other debt again, what a lot of people do with that consolidation is they do it and they find that to be a win. So they let their foot off the gas of actually making progress. You feeling these wins? They're psychological wins, of course. And I'm not saying you shouldn't feel good. I'm not necessarily saying that. But how you're setting this up is you are using this slight improvement as a big win. And you're thinking. You're thinking that you are making much more progress than you actually are. Look, private student loans can make you feel like you're one missed payment away from selling your grandma's heirlooms. We miss you Grandma. Why? Refi says chill out. No more sacrificing the family jewels. They don't reduce you to a credit number. They actually want to see if you actually plan on paying them. And by the way, they're providing interest rates under 6%, which is practically a unicorn in the student loan jungle. I mean, some lenders want to charge so much that you'd swear they're putting your firstborn on layaway. Tired of monthly payments so high you can't afford a single Sweet treat Y Refi has gotcha. They'll rearrange your payment plan, ease the monthly hit, and even let your poor co signer off the hook. Mom or dad can finally breathe. Oh, and if you think you'll just get stuck in a call center, guess what. 4.6 stars. And Google says why Refi actually picks up and treats you like a real human shocker, right? In finance, that's about as rare as me not slamming the desk every single episode. So if you're done fantasizing about robbing a bank, don't do that. By the way, check out why Refi. They're here to help you actually crush these loans without selling your kidneys on the black market. Head to yrefy.com hammer that is yrefi.com hammer or call 880-897-33978 that is 889-733978 and see how a real personal approach can help you escape the private loan nightmare. Because let' living with crippling debt until you're 90 is not the retirement plan you dreamed of.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm not taking as like, oh, I'm doing everything perfectly because I can't say.

[Caleb Hammer]

Perfect, but you are giving yourself way.

[Guest (Caleb)]

More feel that I'm improving and feeling improvement's fine.

[Caleb Hammer]

Feeling improvement's fine. I'd be that's how I feel.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I don't feel amazing. I feel like, okay, I'm improving. You know, I don't take the foot off the gas, but you're going in the right direction.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah but if it's this micro micro micro never actually gets to the point where you're actually doing something good, like objectively good, then that doesn't mean anything to me.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Well, that's what the debt consolidation was supposed to be as a big huge chunk that I can put we just.

[Caleb Hammer]

We'Ve already established how that mindset's we.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Can agree multiple ways.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

No no, no.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, how was enough because you haven't changed your behavior. The only way to go through bankruptcy to debt consolidate, credit card transfer, personal loan however you want to do it. The only way to do that is to prove for at least three months that you have changed your behavior in a perfect debt pay where you would have paid off your debt regardless and now you're just using this tool to actually do it quicker. However, you've only slightly improved in the past couple weeks since applying to come on the show. So you you haven't done the three months of proof that you will be able to stick to it.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'VE done enough proof for myself. I.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

No, no. Micro adjustments are not enough.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's not a micro adjustment. If when I paid off a card completely and I'm putting stuff on it and then paying it off, I'm seeing that as okay, I'm doing things well.

[Caleb Hammer]

We'll have to go through the. We'll have to go through the finances and actually find out then. Because with the con you're having with Lindsay, you're on the edge of buying this massive $5,000 top of the line TV and you're itching, dying, and that is progress. You can make it, throw it towards debt instead of consolidating where you're like, oh, I need to see that.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Not the only one. I got several things that I've got my eye on, but I'm not exactly.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're not. Well, he. You. That's not what you're telling Lindsay. Well. And you literally just bought a $2,500 guitar that consolidate. Yeah, sure. That's progress. Oh, now that means. Because I've made a little incremental progress. Here's why I'm beating hard on this, by the way, because I know it seems like maybe I'm being a strickler. He saw himself making little incremental progress. So he feels good. And that allowed him to go spend 200. $2,500 on a guitar because he's doing well. You, buddy. That is money that could go towards that. That is almost half of your monthly income net.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What are we doing? So I don't want to hear it.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I won't defend that argument, but the guitar was a while ago. But I have bought other big things in the meantime, so I can't wave.

[Caleb Hammer]

That thousand hour gaming computer and whatnot. Absolutely. I got it all, buddy. I got it all. You self confess. Live a bougie life.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Not a bougie life, but I like bougie.

[Caleb Hammer]

That is the exact quote from what you have told our producers. So go ahead. Yeah, come on camera and change your tune. Now that you're getting called out for it. You don't get to live a bougie.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Life saying I'm a bougie.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like exactly, exactly. And you do not to live that life if you are actually making incremental progress. I. I got extravagant $10,000 computers, $5,000 TV, $2,500.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I fit them into my. I have a spreadsheet where I plan things and I could see how much $200 a week.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sports betting during hockey season, $300. Every paycheck at the tables going every three months with our girlfriend. Slots.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm better. I'm better now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure big guy. I'm glad Right after you pushed apply to come on the show. Big, big proud of you. I am happy you've ramped on your gambling. But I am nervous of you going back in still even every three months. Cuz that is an easy slippery slope to head right back down in. Cuz if you are an endless sports better buddy being around that environment and you're not in a good place for it to obviously be very clear. Yeah, well there is that. It's. That's. This is dangerous, man. It's a slippery slope for you. How long have you been in this job?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Three years now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, what were you doing before?

[Guest (Caleb)]

So in my early 20s I borrowed like $10,000 from my dad convinced to open a card shop. That's something I love.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, Okay.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I was heavy into that world. I would travel across the state, turn.

[Caleb Hammer]

To the side, turn, turn. How far can you turn? See that ponytail?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

You understand?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh yeah. Butt crack and everything, you know. You know about the, the car tournaments and the butt crack guy. You don't know about that? Well, a little above you. Anyway, I was in that world pretty heavy and a card shop we was in our area closed down and I was like, okay, well there's a vaccine.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, that means. That means the, the market's really good.

[Guest (Caleb)]

They moved to another area of the city. So.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, that means the really good in that area of the city. Sorry, continue.

[Guest (Caleb)]

We thought it was a good idea at the time, but yeah, started that up and it was going great for several months. You know, I was working. Yeah. Yeah. So we opened for about 14 months total.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Guest (Caleb)]

And the first like six were stellar. We had, you know, solid business every day. The problems were I was still working a full time job. So I would go do that in the middle of. What was that job is delivering pizzas. Yeah. So did that during the day.

[Caleb Hammer]

You gotta stop with every stereotype, man. I'm every stereotype.

[Guest (Caleb)]

If I'm anything that's predictable. Yeah. So I had a friend who loved that world too. Watched the shop while I was working and I'd come back at night and continue on till like two in the morning. Sleep there at the store, do it all again the next day. And that was just my life.

[Caleb Hammer]

What was the store making?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Net was like 4 to 6,000 after everything. And then bad.

[Caleb Hammer]

What happened then after the six months of goodness, what happened?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It slowed, it started slowing. Why do you think some of the big spenders stopped coming through. I'm not too sure why. We had some pretty regular big spenders.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did they go to the other store? Did they have better options?

[Guest (Caleb)]

They never came back to ask. I. I couldn't tell you. But the big incident was some vandalism started kicking off. My truck got broken into. They stole the tailgate off my truck.

[Caleb Hammer]

But insurance?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, for the incidences were scaring people from wanting to come because a lot of our business was late night like eight to like midnight. So they just didn't want to be in that area at that time. So after some hard slowdowns, we just.

[Caleb Hammer]

I got. I would have got a part time security guy.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was a quasi industrial park and we were. I was working on. I say we a lot. It was me and girlfriend at the time. She was helping me with it. I was on the razor's edge of margins, just trying to keep the store open and I. I couldn't afford anything like that. And it got to the break breaking point where it's like, all right, I'm going to keep killing myself doing this because it was a lot of work or I just sell everything and you know, close down.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you pay your dad back?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, I never did. Sick.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? If you were making 6,000 nat pure profit.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I kept reinvesting it. I kept buying more product and stocking things and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but then you liquidated in the end. What did you get in the end?

[Guest (Caleb)]

In the end, I made out with like $4,500 of whatever was left.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why did you not throw it to your dad?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I had other things going on at the time and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but that's a. It's a family debt, man. I don't know. He gave that to you? All the trust and everything in the world.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Several years later he did say, hey, we're. I'm just gonna wipe everything clean. Let's start over. But I don'. It doesn't sit well with me at all.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it shouldn't.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I have full intention one day of doing something really nice for him. When I get everything figured out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, well, that's everyone's dream.

[Guest (Caleb)]

But it is, you know, maybe a pipe dream, but that's my intention.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's. That's why it's a dream.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Dreams come true sometimes, buddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

How is that your intention? If you are unwilling to invest money, you won't even learn about the S&P 500 like sake. That's the easiest thing in the world. Number two, you won't pay off your debt. You'll continue going and spending $2,500 on bull at a minimum, by the way, because we do have large purchases and we don't know what to. And we'll see what those allocated to here in a bit, which was about 7,125, I'm sure some were. Oh, your dad also funded your move to Vegas.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yep, I had to move.

[Caleb Hammer]

Have you done anything in your life that was not by anyone else?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, I. I left some areas to move other places on my own, but I was. That's when I was extremely broke. Cuz I spent every penny doing that. And that's why I borrowed money at the second move.

[Caleb Hammer]

Broke by choice. Right now though, I'm.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm pinched. I'm tight. I'm not failing in my mind.

[Caleb Hammer]

What, what do you mean? You're well beyond under the median net worth, even if it doesn't matter for your age.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I make good money. I live comfortably.

[Caleb Hammer]

Good money is not the answer, buddy. If you have nothing to show for, then you're. Some of the worst financial situations that people are in in this country are high earners because you have access to higher levels of leverage.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I mean, I just, I always see it as like, I don't.

[Caleb Hammer]

401K, $2,000. You're. Buddy, you're dramatically behind. If you're 22, I'd be like 23.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I haven't invested a thing and something I got to change.

[Caleb Hammer]

Median net worth mid-30s, 35,000 to $39,000 in the United States now, certainly under where we would want them to be for sure. But you're dramatically into that. Your net worth is minimum. Negative $30,000. Minimum. It's probably closer to like negative 33, 34.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's just trivia to me.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

I mean, that doesn't make sense.

[Caleb Hammer]

That doesn't make sense though. How is that just trivia? You're not able to fully explain that to me of why? It doesn't matter.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It just. It doesn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

You say you're not informed.

[Guest (Caleb)]

100,000, it means nothing to me.

[Caleb Hammer]

What?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It could be negative. Hundred thousand just means I'm leveraged.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, not if you care about retirement though.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, if I want to build it up at some point and get to it.

[Caleb Hammer]

If you just say, oh, once I get to it, once I decide to do it. That's not how it works. That's not how the math works in terms of compound growth, the return that. Compounding that money, making money from your money. So this is not gonna work. Your mentality is not gonna work. You're not caring about it. You're calling it trivia. Doesn't work.

[Guest (Caleb)]

The whole net worth thing, I think it's, I have a weird mindset around it, negative connotation in my mind. Maybe I don't know where it came from.

[Caleb Hammer]

Change your mindset because it's broken. And objectively, I don't know.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

All right. What do you think Your score is? 0 to 10, 0 being the absolute worst finances, 10 being the absolute best finances. Where do you think you are in the world of finances?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I took your test. I think it gave me a 0.5.

[Caleb Hammer]

Man. You can take that test too. Go to calebhammer.com Take the assessment. See where you stand in the world of money. It'll show you where you need to improve, where you're doing really good. It's free@caleb hammer.com and if you don't want to be like a guest who shows up on this show, make sure you download the dollar wise budgeting app. Sign up for the free trial and if you like it, save a lot of money by switching to the annual version. And I'll also send you our budget friendly cookbook signed by me, mailed directly to you. You can also bundle it with all of our educational products for 80% off with Dollar Wise Central. Go to Dollar Wise.com learn more. Check it all out. Change your life. Tens of thousands of people have. Ladies and gentlemen of financial audit, this is one of the most exciting moments in this channel's history. You know, I've been working on building all these educational tools, our budgeting app, all this crazy stuff over this past year because that is where my passion is. We final and now we put it all into one program called Dollar Wise Central.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

You get the premium version of my budgeting app.

[Caleb Hammer]

You get the cookbook mailed to you and signed by me. You get to learn about debt investing.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Budgeting, real estate, basic beginner stuff and finance all the way to the advanced.

[Caleb Hammer]

Stuff collaborated by experts with the lowest.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Refund rate in the industry for a reason.

[Caleb Hammer]

And guess what? You can try Dollar Wise for free until September 1st. If you are struggling or you want to learn more or you want change your life in any way whatsoever like literal tens of thousands of people have done with our programs. Go to Dollarwise.com click that link below. Your life will change. It'll be incredible. And I am here for you with an incredible support team that you can reach at any time. This is a no brainer. Dollarwise.com let's go. All right, let's get into this. Let's get into this. Okay, what do we got? We got a PayPal.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What's going on with PayPal?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Making a purchase and popped up where, you know, apply here and get off. It was a PayPal credit card.

[Caleb Hammer]

PayPal credit card.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you getting? What are you spending on?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I couldn't tell you. It hasn't been used in a while. It was just a. Hey, let's build it up. And I. I kind of just paid the minimum since then.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I mean, it's been built up for a while. Are you sure? Because it's barely down. I mean, you're only 70 from max. Less than 70. 68.

[Guest (Caleb)]

When I was at my worst and I had my.

[Caleb Hammer]

When were you at your worst? Because that must have happened recently.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I changed about months ago. So a year ago, I was deep in the worst of it. I would see exactly how much credit I had on every card and then be like, oh, I have this amount of purchase. Okay. This card has that much available. Boom. And it just got spent. And it just.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is borderline to the max. $632.17. Takes three years to pay off doing minimum payments only, which, by the way, is what you do. And it's a $30 minimum payment of which you made while $17.25 of interest accrued.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, Yeah. I was riding the red line, just pushing it as far as I possibly could without going over.

[Caleb Hammer]

But you've made absolutely no progress on this whatsoever? I don't know.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Nope.

[Caleb Hammer]

I guess. You used this card for your Star Citizen spaceship game.

[Guest (Caleb)]

That was account you don't have.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Huh?

[Guest (Caleb)]

That. That was an account you don't have. That was PayPal credit, and it's.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's now closed credit. And for Star Citizen.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yes. And that. That's a guilty pleasure of mine.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, how much were you spending on.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Star Citizen total year or not year to date, but all times. Like 3, 500 so far. Year to date, year to date. 1600 maybe.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you doing, buddy? You have debt. You're saying you're making progress? You're the good guy. You're the expert.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What are you talking about?

[Caleb Hammer]

1300 this year so far on Star Citizen.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Guilty pleasure. You know, it's something I really enjoy doing, and it's hard to say no sometimes.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you even spending on? I don't even know the game. They're. I'm being told it's controversial.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, it's. It's a game that's been in development for a very long time. It's like 11 years now in development still. Oh yeah. It's been an Alpha for. It's an Alpha for a decade.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you're giving them twelve hundred dollars a year. What's expensive? What are you getting?

[Guest (Caleb)]

So they're. They're spaceships. You buy virtual spaceships that you can fly around in, you get in combat with, or depending on what type of ship, you can haul stuff or there's a bunch of different work modes you can salvage ships, there's different types you can have.

[Caleb Hammer]

But Alpha for 10 years and you're supporting it with $1300 a year when you have no retirement, negative net worth and horrible credit card debt. And you're only making a minimum payment towards.

[Guest (Caleb)]

If not already, it's going to be the first billion dollar development video game. They had like $800 million like last year, total gained. It's insane, but it's. It's amazing.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's. It's a universe simulator. It's literally an entire universe.

[Caleb Hammer]

Crowdfunded.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It started as a crowdfund and then they did their whole thing. I don't know if you know who Chris Roberts is or.

[Caleb Hammer]

No.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Wing commander back in the 90s.

[Caleb Hammer]

No. Nerd alert.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay. Well, it's that vein of. Of game and it's.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you're just endlessly funding it instead of trying to make your life better so you can move in with your girlfriend and potentially marry her.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Definitely a guilty pleasure. I can't, I can't argue this one away. I just like it.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's okay that you like it, but it's priorities, big guy. You want to move in with your girlfriend, you can't until your finances are figured out. Apparently you make a minimum payment to PayPal. I mean, you could have paid off 2. PayPal's 2. PayPal's entire card. 2. With what you've given to Star Citizen this year so far. We're in the eighth month of this year, by the way. Not even done with this year care.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah. And I'm not necessarily done with ships this year, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, good. So you don't care to change?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I. Yeah, I can't argue it.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's definitely what's so good about getting a new ship. What do you do? What does it reward you with?

[Guest (Caleb)]

You can just do different things. You know what, what are you doing?

[Caleb Hammer]

Last time you bought a new ship, how much did it cost? What did you do?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Last one I got was 900. And it's. Yep. It's a, It's a capital ship destroyer essentially. It's designed to take on the really big ships.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can you walk around in the ship? Is it all walk huge?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Every little place and it's just you.

[Guest (Caleb)]

You know, your friends are in it. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh yeah, your friends are in the ship.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, it can. This ship particular can hold like 14 people. There's 14 stations people can work at and play in.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, sounds pretty cool. But 800 is insane. That is ridiculous. And what did you do with this?

[Guest (Caleb)]

This Played with it. I still play with it all the time. Getting you know, big battles or go mess with other players or means friends get online and you know, basically this is a combat ship. So it's all combat.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's the most you've ever spent on a ship.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's this one. That's the most expensive.

[Caleb Hammer]

Crazy. That could have paid off this card plus more could have all for a ship.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's a sexy ship though. I. I'm not.

[Caleb Hammer]

What about your sexy girlfriend?

[Guest (Caleb)]

She's great. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, wow. Okay. More excited about the ship, by the way.

[Guest (Caleb)]

She's gonna love hearing that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I mean it was from your own language and energy. I guess you're in a concierge club if you.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, if you spend over $1,000, you get in this bougie concierge club where you get special access and early access to stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

And you know, you pre ordered Battlefield 6 as well. We all know not to do that. You don't treat myself.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I wouldn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, you don't pre order ea.

[Guest (Caleb)]

EA is burned so many times.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

We all decided.

[Caleb Hammer]

And listen, the beta looked great, but we do not pre order.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I like a bad girlfriend. I. I just came clawing back. I. I couldn't say no. It's something I'm definitely going to play. I'm definitely going to get it.

[Caleb Hammer]

So unless it launches. The last battlefield was dick suck.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, I'm playing that now too because they give you rewards for playing it right now. It's. It's terrible, but doing it anyway.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're an addict in a lot of things. If we'll be honest. When I said that addiction would translate from gambling to something else. Oh yeah, we have found it.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh yeah, gaming's huge.

[Caleb Hammer]

But he has a dating simulator for 25amonth. It's Farmville mixed with dating. You grow crops and then you get dates and it has a lot of nudity and sexual activity. What the am I reading?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Total Gooner game. Just something I've been doing for a long time and you know, I've stopped relatively recently. But yeah, I was in that pretty deep for a while. Like three years.

[Caleb Hammer]

How much did you spend on this?

[Guest (Caleb)]

25Amonth for three years.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, buddy, that is literally $5 away from your minimum monthly payment on PayPal. You could have made double your minimum monthly payment on PayPal when you're looking at virtual boobies. Like what Vosh level?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I don't understand that reference. I do get outside sometimes to gamble.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Caleb Hammer]

Right now he says he wants to do better. Ladies and gentlemen, I have to say this because he's not telling me, probably because he's embarrassed. Thank goodness Lindsay is just a master at squeezing individuals for information. But he's literally setting an alarm right now for 11:30am Central. We're in Central time zone right now. He's usually in west coast because there's a new ship available in Star Citizen that is $1,600.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What are we doing? I thought we wanted to pay off debt. You.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's. It's a. I'm thinking about it. I haven't made up my mind.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're setting an alarm for it? Your mind is pretty close.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Just to see when it comes out.

[Caleb Hammer]

But if you're setting an alarm.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, because I. There's so much nuance that I. I can't explain. See if I can get it with store credit.

[Caleb Hammer]

Planning to interrupt our filming for this?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, I'm not planning.

[Caleb Hammer]

15 minutes.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm not planning on it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, let's see it in 15 minutes, shall we? Because I will be very curious and if you buy it, I will harm you.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'd be the first one to buy something live.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, we've had someone doordash order something because they were pregnant.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Not that bad.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, but you look triple pregnant. What is wrong with me? I apologize. Kind of. Not really.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I will say you are much thinner in person.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Thank you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I'm losing weight.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I mean, you're not Brandon level, but you're okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, Brandon's doing better than me. Listen, I've been flat these past couple weeks and this is. Yeah, it's. It's not great. But that's why we call. We film a show in Hammer Elite called Fat and Fatter. He's fat. I'm fatter. You can come join us. You can be. Will be fat. Fatter and fattest.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm good.

[Caleb Hammer]

I have exclusive expressed permission to make these jokes, by the way, before filming. Can you confirm to the camera? Because people think I'm mean sometimes.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Help me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you could do that yourself by not stopping at the drive through every day, buddy.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, just drive through.

[Caleb Hammer]

I wish that wasn't even funny. I'm trying.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No doordash, buddy, think. What's the drive through these days?

[Caleb Hammer]

Me? I'm budget conscious. Doesn't mean I'm not fat.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Boom. Roasted.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Yeah. This is at a 33.24 interest rate. This is crazy. $123 of interest this year so far because it is a small balance, but it's maxed out.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Thank.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is just crazy, man. Listen, you're obviously not a credit card person. I'll let you use the fizz card. It's a debit card that builds credit so you still get those advantage which you can't spend more. That's in your checking account. I guess you don't really need a Core Secure certification, but if anyone you need does. I can gift you one of those. They're really good. They help boost resumes, help people get raises.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I will say my credit's pretty decent right now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I'm sure you're the bank's best friend. I mean, who doesn't want to lend you money? You make them a ton. Samsung. This is a debt for your phone that is affirm. You affirmed your Galaxy Tab S10.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yep. Very recently. Like three months ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's wrong with you? At least it's a 0%. Until when? Until it's paid off?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, till it's paid off.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean it's not. Listen, it depends on the overall context of your financial situation. It's like I would be fine doing this myself for someone that's in $0 to debt and proves that they are able to finesse debt that they are. Instead, instead of going and throwing this a thousand five hundred or sorry 1056 towards the phone, they throw the 1056 in S&P 500 and it grows 10%. Obviously you're making 10 versus 0. That's fine. But that doesn't work for you because you're immediately putting this on a 0% debt and then taking that 1000 and throwing it on star citizens. Yeah, so it doesn't work. Hi, listen here. Financial audit. I've curated the exact resources and tools I personally use or would use if I was in certain situations. So take advantage of these offers in the resources section in the description below the first one, I've moved my investments to webull. Do the same and transfer to my investing app of choice and you get cash bonuses of $200 all the way up to $30,000 depending on initial funding amount and up to 8.1% AP on your money and up to 3.5 matches for your IRA. And then number two, a great new checking account that I've switched over from Sofi and it's called chime. Get that $550 bonus when you sign up with Direct Deposit and get almost 4% on your money just sitting there. And then three, automate your investing with acorns. Usually sign up incentives are only five bucks, but you get $20 with my link. Number four, you can increase your income and boost your resume with a course career certific. If T mobile is good in your area, switch to Helium and get a literal $0 a month phone plan for the same exact service. But most importantly, go get your free Hammer Financial score and see where you stand in the world of finances. Take the assessment@caleb hammer.com you will not regret any of these. Change your life today. You're not finessing. This doesn't make sense to you?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm not saying I was finessing. I'm.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wait. And this is a tablet? It's not even a phone.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, it's a tablet.

[Caleb Hammer]

But why did you need this?

[Guest (Caleb)]

My old tablet was out of date. Couldn't get updates anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

And I was a tablet.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Who gives a cuz Game Pass allows you to stream games with tablets. You can connect a controller to it. I was playing Expedition 33.

[Caleb Hammer]

You already have a $10,000 computer. What? What?

[Guest (Caleb)]

But I don't want to sit in my computer all the time. Sometimes I want to be on the couch or if I'm laying in bed, I'm on the road.

[Caleb Hammer]

On the road? Yeah. While we're driving, let's get.

[Guest (Caleb)]

What? Like when I'm visiting places like the hotel room last night. That's what I was doing is great.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why enjoy a new city and experience the things that it offers. Let's play star citizens in.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I got to say, Austin has not impressed me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I mean it's just a normal city now.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I went on 6th street and seems like a great place to catch Titus.

[Caleb Hammer]

Certainly does. Yeah.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Not impressed.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why do you think it's called Dirty six?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I did not know that. All I know is I was hungry and that was the closest.

[Caleb Hammer]

Go to West 6 or East 6 or Rainy Street. But don't go to the place called Dirty six if you want to avoid Dirty.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay, sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

You love the dollar slices though.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I got some really bougie expensive tacos like on the corner.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wonderful. Okay, so tablet. Let's look a take. Listen. $1,056.66 what is the minimum detainment?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's over two years. It's like 30 bucks a month or something like that. It's really low.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's. It's a two year for a gaming goon tablet.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, but it's zero percent.

[Caleb Hammer]

Looks at people having fun on 6th street and says let's game in bed. Who am I to judge? I did that as well. You would never catch me on Dirty six.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I will say this tablet, top of the line, best one they make. And that's my kind of go to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, that excuses you.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I like the best of everything I gotta have.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

It doesn't make sense because you just.

[Caleb Hammer]

Can'T afford it because you should have the best of life. Best of life is you being able to retire at some point and that is getting further and further away from a reality that you will ever be able to experience.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, my mindset has to shift because I was living my best current life.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, that is. That is such a deflection. I'm sorry, that is like an answer that anyone would give who doesn't want any kind of pushback. This is what you're doing now. Let's a take, listen, push, put. Lindsay, can you put your arm over here for a second? Okay, so here's Lindsay's arm. Okay. Can you tell me, Caleb, you shouldn't hit women.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, you should.

[Caleb Hammer]

Huh?

[Guest (Caleb)]

You should.

[Caleb Hammer]

I shouldn't?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, you shouldn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're right. My mind shift has to change on that. I still just hit one.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's wild.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Like it doesn't matter. Like that is such a.

[Caleb Hammer]

Just like getting out. That is such a. Just a deflection. You're not going to get out of.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What you are literally doing, doing right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Now by saying yes, my mind shift. My mind must shift on this. My mindset needs to change.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I mean, what do you want me to say? Like, screw you, I'm not going to change nothing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like no, but it's more acknowledging the different flaws and whatnot. But just to say my mind shift. That or my mindset has to change. It's just like. I don't know, it's just. It's just a. It's a weird thing to do in a conversation. I mean, you're endlessly affirming things like crazy. You got a $3,000 firm vacuum. We had 10, 10 affirms all at once. Even at the peak. I don't know. You want your girlfriend. You don't even live with her. You didn't even get in a place with her. Wanted a spot Clean vacuum. So you got it and you from the 3000$1. Like I don't even know what we're doing.

[Guest (Caleb)]

A little backwards. I have a three thousand dollar vacuum. But it, it's a lot to put together. It's very, you know, it's the best, top of the line best you can get. So she wanted to like spot clean and didn't want to have to go through that hassle. So I got her cheap, like 151. In addition.

[Caleb Hammer]

See with your access to debt and what I'm seeing with the firm and why I'm not allowing your just little excuses or deflection is because no matter what, what I see you doing is sure, maybe you don't spend money in your checking account that you don't have, but as long as you have access and a limit on a firm or something, if you want a bougie purchase, you just get it. I mean you did it literally last night. You said with the tacos you can't afford that shit.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, I mean, I didn't affirm you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Always have to have the best one, huh?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I didn't affirm tacos.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but you probably shouldn't get that when you're not paying more than your minimum monthly payment on your debt. How do you not understand this? Do you not understand how that could go to something else?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It could, but at the time that was my best option.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it wasn't. It was last night. Your best option is you could have put more money towards debt before you came on the finance show.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I was hungry last night and needed to go somewhere. Well, I literally was the first place on the corner and it's the thing that looked good. That's what I got. I could have gone down the sketchy ass 6th street and get stabbed by somebody, but I just picked the first.

[Caleb Hammer]

Austin's a pretty safe city.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was pretty wild, my guy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, it's a wild street for sure.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I live in pretty rough neighborhoods and I felt uncomfortable.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I mean it's just a crazy party street. Yeah, I don't know. Okay, what is this? What is this? Is this Amazon on a firm or something?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, that's the vacuum.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so this is the vacuum, the cheaper vacuum. Yeah, I mean, kind of, I guess. This is at a 30% interest. So this doesn't even make sense. Why go get expensive tacos? I would prioritize paying something off. That is 30% debt. $227.78. Oh, that's, that would be your total payment. So what? I mean, I'M gonna say the balance is like 150 bucks. What's your minimum monthly on this thing?

[Guest (Caleb)]

33K.

[Caleb Hammer]

I guess if you wanted to be a housewife. Yeah, we can clone some vacuums and whatnot. I just, I don't really understand it, man. Because just if you have the ability to spend and you want something, you do it. When we could be prioritizing debt, just, you have an opportunity that many people don't, where you could literally have this juicy retirement and live a very good life. Sweat, rent, save money with the person you're dating. If you guys are ready to move in together, like that's good. Yet you're just choosing to not do anything that is beneficial to you. I just don't get it. You're not doing anything that's beneficial. Like you have, you can talk well, you have proper speech, you can say the right answers to certain things and do proper deflections, but you are not doing one thing right. So if you're able to speak on that, why are you not doing one thing right? And no, I need to shift my mindset. I want to know why you're not doing anything.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's a deep rooted issue that I've had. I didn't prioritize this at all. Like, clearly it's been a massive issue for me for a long time and I'm not just ready to just flip the switch and completely, you know, know, do everything correct. And I know you're gonna yell at me for this, but incremental improvements on things, other areas of my life I excel at. I, I do things very well. What, work?

[Caleb Hammer]

Star citizen?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, no, I like at work. I'm very proficient at work. I've always been very proficient wherever I worked. I'm like you said, well spoken, very intelligent. I've never had an issue getting a job. I've always like, the most I've ever been employed was like two weeks.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's good.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I always get multiple offers when I apply for places because I, I can't speak competent, confidently and I know what I'm talking about. And you know, being in I t for 15 years now.

[Caleb Hammer]

So if you're gonna put in all this work and energy, let's see the positive result. Let's have something to show for it. So I, I, I don't know the life you could be living, but you're choosing not to live is just, it makes no sense to me.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yes, was choosing and I was okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Until, yeah, he applied to come on the show. Sure. Okay, here's Another Amazon affirm. Okay, so this one's also at 30%. I'm gonna say this is like 150 as well. What was this purchased for?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I don't remember.

[Caleb Hammer]

Honestly, a $33 minimum containment.

[Guest (Caleb)]

The affirm card's so dangerous because you could just spend it, you know, which.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is why you shouldn't have access to it. If you can't control it, close it. Let's say you're Amazon, pull it up and start a screen recording. If you could, please. I assume you have an Android called that?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I sure do. I do not do Apple.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I definitely don't like private and privacy and security either.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Me using an Apple device is like a surgeon using a squeaky hammer.

[Caleb Hammer]

Now, if he did, he would have been able to start the screen recording in about 1% of the time it's taken him so far.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Amazon update.

[Caleb Hammer]

Huh?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Amazon needed to update. Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, we got a. Like scalpels and I don't know what you're planning on doing.

[Guest (Caleb)]

That was a watch repair kit.

[Caleb Hammer]

This very fit, muscular workout clothes.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I was looking for something to make exercising a little easier. It didn't work out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Food storage. He watched the show. He's starting a meal prep the moment he signed up. Multivitamin. We got some gold man's jeans.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm wearing them.

[Caleb Hammer]

We got measuring cups. Because again, he watched the show. He's ready to start meal prepping. So it happens every single time. Crimp tool pass through.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, I just rebuilt my network rack so I had a bunch of wiring I had to do.

[Caleb Hammer]

Men's Solutions. Cat 6, pass through.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Part of the same stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

Cat 6 pass through whatnot. Wi Fi. Wi Fi. Access point. There's the tablet.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, that's what that answer is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Rechargeable batteries for Xbox controller. Xbox controller special. It's a special edition. Probably didn't have an Xbox controller, did we?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was a gift for my girlfriend.

[Caleb Hammer]

Her tubes. Lots of tubes. Yeah, I mean, just projects. Projects. Projects that we don't need to do and gifts that we don't need to do if we're trying to live with her by improving our finances so we can live with her. I would prioritize that, cuz I'm sure she'd care about that more. Same with the vacuum thing. Got our screen protectors for our phone, advanced protection, antisperson perspirant, deodorant. Lots of Dove stuff. We went all in on M. Dove.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Was having some dry skin issues.

[Caleb Hammer]

Medical candor. Everyone loves that book business 101 book for you.

[Guest (Caleb)]

My CIO recommended it.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know. It's. It's. Honestly, other than. I mean, sure. Deodorant. Most of it's just like happy stuff and stuff you don't need and gifts when we don't need to be doing gifts, man.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Don't need to be. But you know, we were playing games together and wanted to do something nice.

[Caleb Hammer]

I know what you wanted to do. I don't give a. We're talking about what you needed to do. Dude.

[Guest (Caleb)]

That would be the alarm.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, why don't you check it?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Screen record. If you. If you may, if you may. Let's see if he's about to. Why pay off a debt when we can get a star citizenship, ladies and gentlemen. Which by the way, way. You know the finances we're talking about here. He doesn't have this right now, but not too long ago took out a payday loan in Sacramento to get a car battery at 500% interest rate. This is what we're dealing with here. Wants the proper speak. This is what we're dealing with.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I was extremely broke at that time. Like proper poor.

[Caleb Hammer]

Let's see the ship.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Looks like this wave is already sold out. They're releasing them in small waves every two hours. So we'll be done by then. I'll check it again.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, we'll find out what happened I guess if we ever do a follow up. Okay. Okay, here we go. This looks like a car. What do we got?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It is a 2025 Mazda CX50 brand new car.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're. You're swimming in death debt and you got a brand new dumb car. Yeah, it's lease a $800 lease.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

800Amonth is something you're not even gonna own.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I see a car as a depreciating asset.

[Caleb Hammer]

And get an asset.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Well, I get a new car every two years, so I'm never gonna.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, that's your choice. And dumb behavior. What you're saying because you make a dumb behavior it's justifiable? I'm confused.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Please explain that if I want to have the latest and greatest. Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh my gosh. This latest and greatest is so dumb. Why not have the latest and greatest Retirement.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Hasn'T been a priority.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, that's as clear as day, man. And the bullshit that they bring into this lease with behind the scenes fees and all this stuff that make it just cost dumb money. So this looks like three, three years. About a three or four year with.

[Guest (Caleb)]

A buyout option after two years. And to give you some backstory, on the car itself, I had a 20, 23 CX50 that I had a loan for and I was bringing in it for service. And the shady ass sales guy was like, oh, you know, while you're sitting here waiting, you want to try out this one? And it was exactly what I was looking for. Had all the features I wanted, had ventilated seats and you know, you're a big guy. You know, swamp is a thing. Not as much as yours, but it's an unnecessary luxury. But I couldn't see myself without it now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you should because you can't afford it. I mean, even with leases you got to put money down. How much did you put down on? How do you save up for that? Because you're not saving up for anything.

[Guest (Caleb)]

You're going to be so upset. I put $2,000 down on a firm.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is. Oh my God. The way you are living life makes no sense. Everything you are buying does not make sense for your financial situation. You are living a 200,000 hour lifestyle on like 100,000 hours a year.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Does that mean I'm ahead?

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it means you're affirming everything. It means you're kicking the can down the road for everything and at some point it is going to catch up and all you do to get out of it is a consolidation and you think you win from doing that. This is insane. And we're talking 794.52amonth for years to come and then you're just going to trade up after two years?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Probably.

[Caleb Hammer]

Probably Ridiculous, man. What was your payment on the previous car you had before this?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was 690. It was like 100 bucks less.

[Caleb Hammer]

Just endlessly ramping up, ramping up, ramping up more. Affirm. Is this the Affirm?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Is it 2000?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, s 2000. Well, interest, I mean, yeah. Total payments. What's the balance on this now?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Made like two payments so far, so I think it's down to like 1700 because interest each one.

[Caleb Hammer]

1700?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, they put it out over a year.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's your monthly payment on this? I mean the interest rate for a down payment on a lease is literally at a 36% interest rate. That is insane. That is insane. And to suggest with your proper speak that you are doing anything nearing okay is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. What is your minimum on this?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's 2, 4, 40.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, this is. What a joke.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What a joke. You can't save $2,000 to put down on a car. It was wrong with you spur the moment.

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[Caleb Hammer]

I just don't understand because you're just gonna have spurt of the moments forever.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

If that's all that's gonna happen.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Certain circumstances come up and I've said.

[Caleb Hammer]

Certain circumstances will always come up. Welcome to life.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, I have an impulse issue because.

[Caleb Hammer]

You have no self control and that.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Is what we discussed in the beginning of what you disagreed with. But we are proving more and more.

[Caleb Hammer]

And more that you have no self control in any way whatsoever. So I don't want to hear you of self control.

[Guest (Caleb)]

That was some bull in certain areas. I could say no to certain things.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you even have an equity position or whatever in your last one?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you have to trade over negative equity?

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, I got lucky and it was a straight trade.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you got lucky. We'll man, we'll see.

[Guest (Caleb)]

But like saying no to stuff. I. I had a trip planned at the end of the year to go to Orlando and realize it's not going to make financial sense.

[Caleb Hammer]

We're going to put me in further, walk around.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, I have no issue with that. We just went to Universal like a.

[Caleb Hammer]

Few months Smaller park.

[Guest (Caleb)]

He still walked all day in the hot sun.

[Caleb Hammer]

Smaller park.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Park.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, still a shitload of steps.

[Caleb Hammer]

Smaller park.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Regardless, we canceled that trip because it didn't make financial sense.

[Caleb Hammer]

Probably because you couldn't affirm it. You're maxed out.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I probably could have. That is the last one, guys.

[Caleb Hammer]

Round of applause for him. He did one thing in his history of financial ups this entire year.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, you wanted an example. And there's certain things.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Okay. So out of every three things that pop up, up one you turn down.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Prove that the two things do not capable. I am capable of it, I guess.

[Caleb Hammer]

I guess. I'm sure you wanted to say no to Disney so you could get that $5,000 computer that's coming up or 10,000 hour or sorry, 5,000 hour TV. 10,000 hour computer. All that. Got to get that higher, higher Wham. For your ships, for starships.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I have a mental list of big purchases in my head of things would be nice to have and we will.

[Caleb Hammer]

Find a reason to justify it. You will drop a single frame and you'll be like, no time to go.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm, I'm pretty reasonable in that regard. But things like right now I'm looking.

[Caleb Hammer]

At a bread maker.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I want a bread maker.

[Caleb Hammer]

What a reasonable person like that needed a 10,000 hour computer.

[Guest (Caleb)]

At the time it was all right, I'm going to buy this and it's going to last me a long time.

[Caleb Hammer]

We can always justify it. Here we go.

[Guest (Caleb)]

But this was four years ago at the time. I'm gearing up for an upgrade now because it's starting to age out so. But it's been rock solid this whole time. I, I was right.

[Caleb Hammer]

If I break it down, is gearing.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Up for the upgrade.

[Caleb Hammer]

Here comes needs.

[Guest (Caleb)]

50 90, no 15 90s trash. Next generation.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're gonna wait for 60. Yeah, it's like two years away.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Probably like next generation. So I'm saying gearing up. I'll probably start buying certain parts and reusing the stuff I have now. It's not an all at once expense.

[Caleb Hammer]

Correct me if I'm wrong. It's not necessarily trash. It's just, it's just uberly expensive for what you get. Right, Right. But it with it within itself is still great. This is a dollar value.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, it's fantastic. It's extremely expensive because I, I don't want to compromise on those kinds of things.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but it's Nvidia, dude. I mean if that. They've done that for two generations now with their top end. Right. So you think it's going to be different in their 60 series?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Potentially, but I would have aged so far down that the upgrade is more desirable. It's not a 10% increase, it'll be a 50% increase. And that's like.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, that's actually substantial personal 30% personal ones on SoFi.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

For what?

[Guest (Caleb)]

That's the deck consolidation.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Oh, it's the debt consol to 30% interest. You're usually supposed to save on your interest.

[Caleb Hammer]

What did you say, like 3%?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

This isn't even a good consolidation. People consolidate at like 15 12%.

[Caleb Hammer]

Buddy.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

You found like the worst consolidation you could get.

[Guest (Caleb)]

My credit was trash. That's the best I could give.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Then pay off some debt, get your credit a little better, then consolidate because you will at least have proven that.

[Caleb Hammer]

You can one, pay off some debt.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

And two, get a better rent. Wait, because what is even the point at this point?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I did my research.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, he did his research. The fat fat Destiny Is coming out again. Here he is.

[Guest (Caleb)]

After three months, I can refinance and my credit score has skyrocketed ever since I got that loan.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

That's great, but you still have a.

[Caleb Hammer]

30% debt here, buddy, which is what matters. Yeah, but I can. I don't care about your. You're talking about hypotheticals. Credit score is more hypothetical than a net worth.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Fair, but it allows me to reconsolidate this every month. Consolidate your finance refinance.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, and what are you going to get on your refund?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It depends on what my credit score is. But it will be better.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's more than just credit score. There's debt to income as well, buddy, which is your other debt up now.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

That you've paid off the debt by consolidating.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it won't be.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yes, because I traded in my car loans. That loan came off my credit. So my debt to income looks way more beneficial than it.

[Caleb Hammer]

We'll see. I hope you can show it. But listen, you got a.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's 100 point.

[Caleb Hammer]

You got a minimum monthly payment of $1051. That is insane alone. Regardless of the credit score. Like what we're looking at minimum payment wise. I'm just starting to get nervous. When we have the 240, the 7, 794 and now 1051.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

This is crazy, huh?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It balances.

[Caleb Hammer]

Balances what?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's under what I make.

[Caleb Hammer]

Buddy, it's not about just being under. If you're under by a dollar, that doesn't mean it's good.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's not horrific.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, what percentage of your overall net income is it? Because it could be horrific. And I'm thinking it might be.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, it's probably 85, 90%.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

That's not horrific.

[Guest (Caleb)]

The horrifics. 100, 110, 120%. That's ridiculous. Was unsustainable.

[Caleb Hammer]

So as many of you know, I've been a big supporter of course Careers for a long time. I'm not just a partner. I actually own stock and I'm an investor. So why did I partner with coursecareers? Because I truly believe in what they're doing. A lot of people have questions about online certifications versus traditional college degrees. Let me be clear. I wouldn't put my name behind something unless I knew it worked. The thing is, not everyone has the time or resources to spend four years in college or take on massive student loan debt. Course careers offers a practical, affordable way to launch a career in a high demand field like tech, sales, IT and accounting, where companies are hiring based on the skills needed, not broad college degrees. In fact, right now, one in three companies are dropping degree requirements and that number is only going to continue to grow. I know some people think online programs are a quick fix, but that's not the case here. Coursecareers takes effort and commitment, but they provide you with a streamlined, proven path. Path. They offer up to date self paced courses, one on one or group coaching from people that work in the industry. And most importantly, they help you actually get hired. Just look at graduates like Nemeso, who went from driving FedEx trucks to a cybersecurity job at Disney. That didn't happen by chance. He put in the work and course careers guided him every step of the way. And what truly sets course careers apart is that it's not just about learning skills, about landing a job. Their curriculum is designed based on what employers actually need. And their network of industry coaches will guide you through the entire process, from learning the skills to interviewing, resume help and beyond. So if you're serious about starting a new career without wasting years or piling up debt, give course careers a try. Start with their free intro course linked in the description to explore your options. And when you're ready, use the link in the description for $50 off the full course. Your future starts right now and coursecareers is here to help you shape it. The way the worldview you have on what is bad and good, man, it makes no sense.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's not all doom and gloomy. It's.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is doom and gloom. I'm sorry, this is. If it's 80, 90% of your income.

[Guest (Caleb)]

That'S doom and gloom, I can cover it all. I. It's not going to go worse, buddy, here's the thing.

[Caleb Hammer]

All your spending that you do, that would be considering, you know, if after you make your minimum payments is just done on debt anyway because technically, no, you're not covering it. You're defaulting your fund spending to credit and then your necessaries are on debit paying. Your minimum payments mean you're still spending more than you make. And the math isn't working. Working. Oh, good, you got this the same week you got the car.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, the car. Trading in the loan allowed me to get this because my debt income.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is insane, buddy. What a. What a creature. When was that?

[Guest (Caleb)]

A couple months ago? Two months ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, $25,000. Great. Okay, here we go. So this is gonna take years to pay off, right?

[Guest (Caleb)]

To three year. Okay, but again, after three months I can refinance.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, we'll see. Just tell me Tell me what happens.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I did research on this before I got it and from the reviews that I saw, everyone gets the option to refinance. Some people said it's only a couple percentage points, some people said it was half. So it just depends on how good my credit is at that point.

[Caleb Hammer]

And we'll see what your behavior does to get to that point. I'm seeing score of 688.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's not going to be like a thrilling rate by any means, especially from so far. Pie.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Better?

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure, better. But anything great.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was lower than the credit cards.

[Caleb Hammer]

Again, you're more just to kick the can down the road instead of actually making any kind of progress kind of guy. That is what you are showing with this conversation, especially talking about the reconsolidations and refinancing. Like you are taking a win by saving percentage on interest rates. And sure there is benefits there, but it actually doesn't really matter too much if you're chucking all your money to it to pay it off. But again, you're getting a $5,000 TV. You're getting. You're upgrading your theoretical. Everything's theoretically with you. You. You still do it. You just went to Univers Universal. You. You still do.

[Guest (Caleb)]

My girlfriend's 30.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

I don't give a. It doesn't matter.

[Caleb Hammer]

You are finding it progress saving a couple of percentage points on interest in which I can consider progress.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

But it actually doesn't matter if you're literally just.

[Caleb Hammer]

You're using that as the victory instead of actually putting money towards it and just paying it down, buddy. And you're not. Instead of doing that, you're making a minimum payment on a PayPal card, which is only $30 when you're doing. When you were just until recently doing just about that much on a video game. Discover it. What's going on with this?

[Guest (Caleb)]

That was years ago. It was a B balance transfer card.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, great. So it consistently works time and time again. Okay, Discover it. Great. Well, what are you getting? Cuz you definitely spent 606 bucks on here.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, this when I got it was like three years ago. And like you said, well, you brought.

[Caleb Hammer]

IT up from 71 to 600 at.

[Guest (Caleb)]

16, transferred balances from a bunch of other cards and then spent up those cards so it ballooned out. You're absolutely right. It happens.

[Caleb Hammer]

$25 minimum payment.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Oh.

[Caleb Hammer]

Ladies and gentlemen, the. The best among us, our king here, our champion of personal finance and knowing everything and is perfect in every way, has had a late fee this last month.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay. I can explain it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Make those roles stretch out even further.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I assumed automatic payments were happening, happening, and it didn't. So it's now reset up, and that will be every month from now.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's good. It's still money you're spending. It doesn't matter. You had a late fee, big guy.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, you're on a late fee. They refunded it. They refunded it?

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, yeah, you called, but it just shows your behavior. It just shows what you do.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's the only one. I'm very.

[Caleb Hammer]

I've never had a late fee. You can't just say it's the only one if you've had a late fee. As in being late, as in behavior.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I'm very studious on this. I check my payments every.

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm sorry, what the.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's never gonna happen again. I never get late fees.

[Caleb Hammer]

I hope not. But now, if you have to pay off the entire balance, but you have if 90% of your income, which I don't think it's 90%, is going to debt minimum depayments, that would not leave $616 to immediately pay this off as a full balance, which would lead to either a bounce payment or not paying enough, and then interest accrues or a late fee.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I didn't explain it well enough. All of my subscriptions go on that card. So they charge up subscriptions and then it pays off for the month. So, yes, there is always purchases happening.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but if it pays off every month and you don't have 616 in your checking account, you will bounce this.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, no, I have my spreadsheet. It's always covered. I'm never short to the dollar. I'm. I've got everything mapped out to the dollar.

[Caleb Hammer]

I hope so.

[Guest (Caleb)]

And I get 1% cash back on.

[Caleb Hammer]

That says the guy who literally racked up this much debt, had a late fee, if I'm not mistaken, has a retirement. Retirement lien coming up pretty soon.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Loan at some point.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, a retirement loan like all this. But again, he can. He can proper talk. He can talk, right? He's like, I'm good. I got this. I got this. I have a spreadsheet. I got this. Listen, the person that has it, the person that has the spreadsheet, the person that is perfect in all this, would not. Be. In this situation, would not have a late fee, would not be spending $2,500 in bull alone last month when they have this much debt. I'm sorry, you can speak as well and say you have everything figured out as much as you want, but the evidence of what is actually on paper does not correlate. You would not be in this and you would not continue to be in this.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

So this paper on paper, which is all numbers are, which is all the reality is with your financial situation we're talking hypothetical versus real. Well this is real. I don't give a about your hypothetical spreadsheet. This is an actual debt that exists right now with late fees and interest this year by the way. So does he pay it off every single month? No interest this year? $287 huh?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I just paid this off with the debt consolidation.

[Caleb Hammer]

It just shows. No you don't understand buddy. And this is what aggravates me about you. I know you just paid it off with the consolidation but regardless, before you.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Even had the consolidation this year so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Far you did lose $300 in interest.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Meaning you have not changed your behavior.

[Caleb Hammer]

When you got your consolidation.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Meaning most likely based on the history.

[Caleb Hammer]

Of everyone who has been on when.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

You did your consolidation.

[Caleb Hammer]

If I talk to you three months from now and I hope this isn't.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

The case, but more than likely it will be back up and accruing interest again. You can say you have a magical spreadsheet.

[Caleb Hammer]

It doesn't matter. The only reason it didn't accrue interest.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

This last month is because you consolidated.

[Caleb Hammer]

It with a 30% loan through SoFi.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

But reality speaking, this entire year so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Far you have been paying interest because you cannot pay it off.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Worth meaning based on everything that's ever happened in the world of every you will be back there again. You do not get to jerk off a consolidation that is not you actually making progress.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't understand how you do not.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Understand that you are not a unique.

[Caleb Hammer]

Butterfly that exists in this world that.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Is different than any other person that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Does consolidations without changing their behavior. Especially since I'm here buddy Car washes.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

And space and spend Peacock tv, Amazon.

[Caleb Hammer]

Prime, Microsoft one one Premium Star hang.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Cars shop sale premium again.

[Caleb Hammer]

You have two premium accounts by the way on here. Well done. That's fantastic. Netflix, Hulu, Google going app. Who knows what Google going app is for $50. Robert Space, Samsung doesn't matter. It is money. Well you had a late fee. You can talk about your magical spreadsheet. All that matters is what is actually happening and the only reason you are no longer accruing interest on here is because you have a debt consolidation. So I don't get give a about your special little spreadsheet and then more more Microsoft Payments. And then. These are all my subscriptions here so far.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Those are all my subscriptions.

[Caleb Hammer]

Congratulations. Those subscriptions. That means the purchases don't matter. What the are we talking about?

[Guest (Caleb)]

And they're quite high. It's like $412.

[Caleb Hammer]

Cancel them. It doesn't make any sense. Stop being a boron.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Some of them. There's some that are legitimate.

[Caleb Hammer]

They're all legitimate. Doesn't mean you need them.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Well, like the car wash, the cell phone payment.

[Caleb Hammer]

My dump a bucket of water on your car cuz all you' there is dust.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yes, and it's every couple days. I get a car wash every two days.

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't need that. Don't you got a brand new. You want it to be nice? There's no water. Yeah, no one drinks water. Huh?

[Guest (Caleb)]

We conserve water. All the car washes reclaim their water. So I can't just dump water on the car. It just evaporates.

[Caleb Hammer]

You can't fill a bucket.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I can. It's probably not good for the environment.

[Caleb Hammer]

Might not be the best, but I care about your finances in this conversation.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I care about the environment.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's also a bucket.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, it's the water. Because we're southern Nevada.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, but I'm saying a single bucket.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

It.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, but every couple days.

[Caleb Hammer]

Plus it goes into the sewer system anyway. If you do it in a driveway, which knowing Las Vegas and reclaiming almost all water anyway through its sewer system, you would have been basically doing the same thing regardless.

[Guest (Caleb)]

They'd probably frown on it.

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't give a. Honestly, I care about your finances. You can't afford.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

You can't afford anything.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, I got upgrade. What is this upgrade? That pay by upgrade?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, it was flex pay. It was. Was 34% interest rate and they turned into upgrade. That was the trip to Universal I took my girlfriend.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, I'm just going to die. But he has a magic magical spreadsheet. Guys, everything's okay. Don't worry.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I. I factored in the paper.

[Caleb Hammer]

$77.69. Oh, you must have been miserable to do a school project with.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I did pretty well in school to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do a school project with it. I didn't say you did poorly in school. You're incapable of listening. You know, if you want to be the smartest guy in the room, actually listen so that you can respond to the things that are being said.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay, School projects. People usually just relied on me to get them done so I would get them done. I wasn't miserable to work with. That was great because the lazy kids could just do nothing. And I do it all.

[Caleb Hammer]

Tip number two. You did. Okay. $817.69. 34 interest rate, minimum payment 139. What did we use this for?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was the hotel. It was the park tickets.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sorry, dude. Oh, it was just in June. This was literally a couple months ago. What?

[Guest (Caleb)]

The 30th birthday.

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't give a about anything. Finances. 30th birthday. I don't. Cool. Great. Yeah. You know what I did for my 30th birthday back in February? I completely destroyed my financial life too. And took up a 34% loan. Yeah. Cuz that's what we do on our 30th birthday. What are you talking about?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was a nice thing.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you talking nice thing to do. Your. Your life. You're preventing getting married even sooner for yourself. If you asked her between marriage, moving in, developing your relationship, or taking out a 35% loan on Universal, what do you think she would say?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I think she would say she sees the improvement that I made and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, shut the up. It's a. I. I said choose which one? What would she choose?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Which one would she choose? Yeah, probably to move in together and.

[Caleb Hammer]

Good, you being an adult. Who would have thought they want their significant other to make a mature adult decision?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It was a complete surprise to her. I didn't tell her any of it.

[Caleb Hammer]

So, new car, birthday trip, 34% consolidation loan, new loan, all in June. But he has a spreadsheet, so everything's okay. Guys.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Know where every dollar is going out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Buddy, I don't believe a single word you say. You just want to sound good at this point, buddy. Come on. We're on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Now we're on 10. Okay. City rewards plus.

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[Caleb Hammer]

Us just a random car like City rewards plus size. Am I right, guys really keeping the jokes going this episode.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Am I right?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Ha.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, I'm good. You look like a guy would be sticky.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why? I don't know.

[Guest (Caleb)]

You just give me that vibe.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

In what way?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Humid in Austin. Look at you. I'm not going to explain it any further.

[Caleb Hammer]

I wish you could explain further cuz I don't know what you mean.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I don't know little jab but my.

[Caleb Hammer]

Jabs have to do with the fact that we see your fact that.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, I know.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's your chat based on?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I don't know. Trying to be witty I guess. It didn't land.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. City Rewards plus. What is this?

[Guest (Caleb)]

What's going on with this random card I applied for? There was a period of time where I was just getting whatever cards that had zero annual fees that I could.

[Caleb Hammer]

When was this in your life?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Couple years ago, three, four years ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, well. But basically maxed out. So. All right. Brandon said you shook his hand and it was way more sticky than me. So just. You'll talk to him in the post show. Okay, so you. You had to have been spending on this relatively recently because it is not that far from maxed out.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, no, I. It was open several years ago but again when I was at my worst 35.

[Caleb Hammer]

Minimum payment takes 4 years to pay off with the way you're doing doing it. So let's go to Universal instead of making any progress towards those max out City Rewards plus card. Okay. Yeah, I mean it's sitting around about a 28% loan interest rate.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Still has a balance.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well a balance, sure. But you're still spending likely at least a few months ago on the card for it to be as high as it is. Cuz you would have made a little more Progress.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Gross.

[Caleb Hammer]

Not great. 13527 interest rate. Okay. AM Amazon. You and Amazon man. Okay, we got an Amazon card and.

[Guest (Caleb)]

This one not super proud of I applied for.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, cuz it's maxed out.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I wanted a metal credit card and they gave you metal credit cards. That's really it. And then I just treated it like you know all the other credit cards and sped it up.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, it's maxed out. You did pay. Yo, you paid it off last month. So maybe I don't need to put.

[Guest (Caleb)]

The balance on the birthday trip. Spending went on that card.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are you paying off the full balance?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

$1,904 1 of spending of $0.56 brought it to max out. We would spend more if it was available, I bet you. Oh, here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, this is what we're doing. Instead of any progress in our life, retiring, living with our girlfriend, this is what we're prioritizing. Amazon, Amazon Door Dash Shack in the Box. Amazon, Amazon Door dashing 7 11. Door dashing 7. What the is wrong with you, dude? 7 11. Door dashing Red Robin gopuff delivery. Door dashing R. Thai. I think Thai food. Door dashing 7:11. Door dashing Thai food. Amazon door dashing Robert Toast or Robert Os. Roberto.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Roberto's.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Roberto's. Sorry. DoorDashian. Roberto's again. Amazon. DoorDashian 7.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What is wrong with you? This 7 11.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude, you got something going on, man.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Energy drinks, man.

[Caleb Hammer]

Go to the grocery store. You, you creature Red for cuisine. Doordash dash bash. Great dragon tiger noodle. DoorDash dollar DoorDash in the dollar store. Amazon. Door dashing white cat castle.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, we only have one white castle.

[Caleb Hammer]

In the city and so we have to door dash it.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's pretty far go. How was it?

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Work.

[Caleb Hammer]

Pack food.

[Guest (Caleb)]

This particular day I didn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Every particular day you didn't. I have your. Dude, shut the up. What are you talking about?

[Guest (Caleb)]

A lot of that was a business trip too.

[Caleb Hammer]

Durango, Italian. Amazon. Amazon hookah. Great. That's what your lungs extra need at the point. Yeah, you're just killing yourself in every way whatsoever. Amazon door dashing 7 11. A doordashing subway. Door dashing $. Doordashing 7 11. Maverick going in against the bull. Probably Ross stores. This is so. Oh, there's so many pieces of paper here. Oh, my gosh. Thank goodness it's not all this statement. Taco bell going and getting some BS. DoorDashing7 11. McDonald's, Amazon, Amazon. DoorDashian, Little Caesars.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

DoorDashian7 11.

[Caleb Hammer]

Roberto's. Taco Shop. DoorDashian, McDonald's. DoorDashian, Burger King. King. You live such a horrible, disgusting life, if we're being completely candid. $252. What a joke of interest to charge this year so far. What a joke. Okay, well, this card certainly isn't paid off. Why? You know, why pay off this 515, $555.91 card when we can spend $2,000 on Door Dash? Like, what are we doing?

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

This is moronic. Your behavior is insane.

[Caleb Hammer]

Saying your behavior is a child. Capital one. Great. Capital one. Here we go. 555.912, 25 minimum payment is all he makes while he goes and doordashes to seven 11, 3, 3, 2 to 3 times a day on doordash, by the way, is what Lindsay's telling me. What the are we doing, man? You do you. You also order food for your co workers and they don't even pay you back. You're probably just putting Some do.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Some, some.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is maxed out. We got 11 hours and 72 cents of interest accruing. What a joke. 82 hours is here so far. What a joke. Paying for our co workers foods and they don't even pay us back. And we're going. And we're. We're only making minimums on all our cards except for the one card where we're getting all our doordash on so that we can pay it off and spend more on the doordash card.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

So stupid. So moronic.

[Caleb Hammer]

So the only reason we're not accruing interest this last month alone, by the way, is because we consolidated and brought it all the way down. So shut the up 24.24% interest rate. Oh good, more credit cards. Because he has a spreadsheet so we're all safe. Bank of America. Wonderful. What do we have on here? Oh, maxed out. $1,411.69. Wonderful. Minimum monthly payment, $43. Interest charged. 29, 70, 29, 27. Oh yeah, man, I just don't get it. This takes nine years to pay off the way you're doing doing it.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I mean the only reason these last few have had balances because the interest rate was below 30% and anything above that, the debt consolidation loan paid off. So I want to work on them. It's one thing at a time.

[Caleb Hammer]

So is this it then? Is this the end of your debt? Can we finally get into the checking account?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I can't think of anything more.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Thank goodness. Lindsay says there's something else. What is there? There's a new debt that we have a new debt. A new new debt? Are you kidding me?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's your new debt?

[Guest (Caleb)]

You just opened a store card.

[Caleb Hammer]

What store card?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's a B and H audio. It's a computer parts and.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Oh, I know what B and H is.

[Caleb Hammer]

You.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

You got a store guard with B and H? You dumb.

[Caleb Hammer]

What did you get it for?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Some networking equipment? New switch.

[Caleb Hammer]

Which you did not need.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I didn't need it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Come on, need it. Shut the up. I know you didn't need it. What do you owe on it?

[Guest (Caleb)]

0%.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's like 850 minimum monthly.

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's 24 months. So that breaks down to like $26. It's so new. I haven't had my first payment yet.

[Caleb Hammer]

Huh?

[Guest (Caleb)]

It's so new. I haven't had my first.

[Caleb Hammer]

What's your minimum?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I broke it down. It's going to be like $26.

[Caleb Hammer]

What a joke, dude.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, that Math doesn't. Math? Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

What a joke. Wait. Okay, okay. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, here's a 4.1K. 2,125. You're doing so well.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Oh, is that the 401K?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I pulled all that out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Why?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Because I wasn't contributing it to it and I didn't get employer match, so that money was just kind of sitting there doing nothing.

[Caleb Hammer]

It would be growing in the market. You actual creature.

[Guest (Caleb)]

I was going to pay off debts with it, but I'm currently sitting on it.

[Caleb Hammer]

But why even take the penalties?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Because I was thinking of spending or putting it towards debts, but I haven't made up my mind where it's going yet.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Carson, you have a change of behavior.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you're just. What? Your life, man. Your life makes no sense whatsoever. However.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What a joke.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, I'm almost done with this conversation. My goodness. Let me tell you what yet. You're afraid of retirement. You say you're afraid of not being able to retire. Interesting strategy, big guy. Interesting strategy.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Time to turn it around.

[Caleb Hammer]

$800 in our checking account. Really good for the guy that says he's always going to be able to pay his 6, $600 balance when they were 200 away from not being able to shut the up. That made no sense. But I have a spreadsheet. What is Robert Space?

[Guest (Caleb)]

That's Star citizens parent company.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Oh, $35. $5. $26 off.

[Caleb Hammer]

Then we're door dashing Burger King.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Who gets Burger King? Then door dashing, then McDonald's and Applebee's and Hookah. You're gonna die. Robert's taco shop.

[Caleb Hammer]

Roberto's. I apologize. Oh, ultimate.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

One doordashing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Double dash.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, that's why most of them are like two, three times a day. It's like food and then drinks from somewhere else.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Yo, doordash and dash Pass. DoorDash and China.

[Caleb Hammer]

One Samsung.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

You know, they're premium. You have three YouTube premiums.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, you have three YouTube premiums. Premiums. Shouldn't be two on one credit card, one on this debit. Thanks for paying my bills, Guy. Venture Plus Cash App, McDonald's and Uplift.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

Uplift. Uplift the desk.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, that's the loan or the loan payment for Universal.

[Caleb Hammer]

For upgrade.

[Guest (Caleb)]

For Universal. Yeah. Uplift turned into upgrade. They merged.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, there's more. We're venmoing out money. We're zelling out money. $200. $134.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

What?

[Caleb Hammer]

What up? I don't even know, man. Let's see. I. I don't even Want to make you a budget cuz you're like you're this. You won't do anything. Cuz you'll never listen to anyone because you think you're perfect. Cuz you have a magical little spreadsheet. But I'm going to make one out of honestly just curiosity to see if this is even possible. Let's find out. Let's find out, huh? Tell if that's 30 or 36. My job. And none of these are even a mortgage or student loans.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

It's all just bad debt.

[Caleb Hammer]

What a joke. What a hilariously disgusting, nasty ass joke. Oh, what have you done in your life? Your minimum monthly payments alone. And none are an asset. His $2,512.26. What a joke. Income 6,000.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Once you your rent, 1600.

[Caleb Hammer]

Utilities, power, including Internet.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Including Internet. Oh, Internet's expensive.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I'm sure yours is.

[Guest (Caleb)]

450 for power and Internet.

[Caleb Hammer]

You don't have gas?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah, gas is included in that. It's like 20 bucks. But I bundled it.

[Caleb Hammer]

450?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah. Car insurance, 180.

[Caleb Hammer]

Gas, vroom, vroom. Drive, drive, drive.

[Guest (Caleb)]

$60 every three weeks. So 80 bucks a month. Phone bill, 50.

[Caleb Hammer]

Necessary food. Believe it or not, $300 is good enough. You can do that. TP fund, $100. Anything else you need to survive? Five. Medical, health care, any CO pays. Anything? Any gym?

[Guest (Caleb)]

My apartment has a gym, my pool. Oh no, no co pays. I'm surprisingly healthy.

[Caleb Hammer]

Subscriptions? I'll give you $50. Let's find out. You don't have any pets, do you?

[Guest (Caleb)]

I have a cat. Age and health 15. Good health, but okay. Food, everything is like $40 a month. Litter, food, everything.

[Caleb Hammer]

Anything else that needs to be in your budget that I have not taken.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Account has to be. No, I don't believe so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, well you technically make it $5,362.26. We're not getting any fun money in that. I put in $50 of subscriptions. You can allocate that how you wish. That gets you $637.74 on a monthly basis left over. So if you're. Do you have a 401k loan or not? Because I see something pop up.

[Guest (Caleb)]

So there was a 401k loan that finished paying off and then I emptied the 401.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wonderful. Okay, well this takes 56 months.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Well, I will say the SOFI will drop off in three years. It's only three year long.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I know. With your minimum monthly payments, right?

[Guest (Caleb)]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

But yes, this all takes that into account buddy.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Okay. I'm just saying after three years.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

I know.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Thousand dollars just disappears.

[Caleb Hammer]

That is calculated in when you pay buddy. No, I'm talking about if you pay extra towards it. It still takes four and a half years to pay off every everything. I'm going to get your Hammer Financial Score. You're just not a person that's. We can't have con. I can't have a conversation with you. Spending in a budget. You overspent 0 out of 10 debt. You don't have collections. But it's all pretty much horrendous such for your income. It's almost 50% 1 out of 10 when only 50% should be going to needs as a whole emergency fund. I didn't see anything in savings.

[Guest (Caleb)]

No, no.

[Caleb Hammer]

You took out from retirement. So I'll call that 2 out of 10. Retirement 0 out of 10. Now real estate 0 out of 10 of 10. It's going to be a Hammer Financial score. Rounded up just barely to a 1 out of 10. It was 0.6. So I guess when you took the quiz and it said 0.5 it probably rounded down and it did it correctly. Get your Hammer Financial score Caleb. Hammer.com for free guys. Join Hammer Elite below. Join us in the post show. It's going to be good. Three premium shows posted every day Monday through Friday. I'll see you guys there. His girlfriend was going to come on too. And what does she know about your finances?

[Guest (Caleb)]

She knows. Knows I'm.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is that not a red flag? Does she know that you took an.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Upgrade loan to go on that trip? Oh yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

And she was okay with that.

[Guest (Caleb)]

Her idea is like a debt is like oh my God. I have not seen a month that destructive.

[Co-host/Producer (Lindsay)]

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[Caleb Hammer]

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