← Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones
Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones
Listen to This Before You Co-Sign That Loan (Dear Sugar Mama)
00:40:30
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Hey guys, this is Molly Sims, host of Lipstick on the Rim. So I have a little bit of a pet peeve that I think you're going to relate to this. I'll be having a great day, feeling good and someone will say to me, you look tired. And I'm like, I promise you I'm not really tired. But here's what I've learned. My eyelids, they do sit a little low and once my doctor explained that to me, it actually kind of made a lot of sense. She prescribed me Upnique, the first and only FDA approved prescription eye drop for adults with low lying eyelids. One drop per eye in the morning and I noticed my eyes look more open awake within minutes. It's like just one simple step. That's it. And the results? Guess what? They last up to eight hours. Learn more about upnique.com that's you P N E E Q.com or talk to your doctor. Just a little quick safety note about Upneek Oxymetazoline Hydrochloride Ophthalmic Solution 0.1% tell your doctor your symptoms and medical history, including blood pressure, blood flow, issues in heart, brain or eye disease. Drooping eyelids can be caused by other more serious conditions such as a stroke. Do not touch the tip of the upne vial to your eye or any other surface this is not a complete list of risks.
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What's up, rich people? It's me, Haley, aka Mrs. Dow Jones, and this is Financial Tea. What's up, rich people? It's me, Haley, aka Mrs. Dow Jones, and this is Financial Tea, the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. Thank you for being here, sippers. Today is a very exciting episode. It's about debt. Please do not turn off the episode now that you know what it's about. Cause I know that debt is triggering. You know, there's good kinds, there's bad kinds. There's the kind that you're ignoring right now that's currently sitting in your Klarna account. I know that it feels like this emotional, intense issue when you have it. You feel like it's like a personality flaw. But we're gonna break all that down today because the truth is, it's not your fault if you are in debt. And it's not a financial death sentence sentence either. So we're going to hear from some real sippers who are dealing with debt and who have some very interesting questions. The tea is hot today. And then we're going to go through how to get out of it. Because if you have a plan, you don't have to be in debt forever. Today we're going to stop the tears and we're going to start the strategy. Okay. Also, if you are in debt, I just want to be clear, it's really not your fault. Like, I talk about this a lot in my book, Future Rich Person, the New Rules of Building Wealth. But we are living in the era of frictionless finance, and it has truly never been easier to spend all your money. Like, think about it. For our parents generation, they had a lot of friction. If they wanted to buy something, if they wanted to have like a real shopping addiction, they had to put in work. They had to physically drive to a store, pull out a checkbook, or hand over like cold hard cash and actually watch the money leave their hands. There was, like always this psychological ouch involved in every single transaction. And I just feel like today that friction is gone and it has screwed us over. Like this whole Apple pay like Apple be paying vibe where you can just scan your face ID and buy a $2,000 couch while you're half asleep in bed. Not great for the wallet. And I truly believe that when money is invisible, debt becomes inevitable. So we're going to talk about the new rule of building wealth in this frictionless society. Because obviously we can't get rid of where we're at, but we can create systems and habits and train ourselves to exist without just falling victim to it. And by the way, the latest data from the Federal Reserve. Love you. Jerome Powell just came in. And total US household debt has now hit a record high of $17.94 trillion. So, yeah, this is needed. We gotta get into it. But before we do, please can we just go through the market report for the week so that you know what's actually going on on Wall Street. Oh, and if you wanna be in the next year, sugar mama, always anonymously email T missesdow Jones, I literally read all of your emails. They're so interesting, they're so juicy, and I would love to feature you. But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report so we know what's going on on Wall street these days. Okay, sippers, this is a special edition of the MDJ Market Report because there's only one story to cover this week, and that is what's happening in Iran and what is going on from a financial perspective and how it is going to affect your wallet. And I want to be clear. I am recording this on Monday, March 2nd. So by the time you are listening on Thursday or maybe a different day, things will have developed, they will have changed. But the massive financial implications of this war and the attacks are already in motion. So let's get into them. And obviously I am covering this from a money Lens Because I'm Mrs. Dow Jones, that's my job. But we cannot ignore the human cost of this conflict. People are losing their lives, families are being destroyed, uprooted. And that obviously matters more than any gas price or ticker symbol. But let's get into the data. Okay, so the TLDR is. Over the weekend, the US And Israel launched what they are calling Operation Epic Fury. And this was an attack on Iran because they said that Iran was close to completing their nuclear weapons and they wanted to eliminate that possibility. So the strikes killed Iran's top leader and other people in power. And in retaliation, Iran has been launching strikes against US Bases and targets. And it's just now like this huge mess. And it's now a global conflict because of the Strait of Hormuz. So Iran controls the northern side of the Strait of Hormuz, and basically 20 million barrels of oil a day flow through this. So that is a fifth of all global production. And as of Monday today, it is effectively closed, which means that 20% of the world's oil is stuck. If this blockade lasts more than a few days. We'll see what happens. By the time Thursday rolls around, oil is easily going to blow past $100 per barrel, which could mean like a 20 to 30% increase in gas prices the next two weeks. And it's not just oil that's been affected. Major shipping lines have also suspended operations. And we all know when global shipping gets expensive or stopped, the price of everything from electronics to clothing goes up because it just costs more to move them. Now let's talk about the stock market, because that's obviously the other big factor here that is getting very affected by what's happening in Iran. So in the stock market, we are seeing major volatility because there's one thing the market hates. It is geopolitical conflict and uncertainty. Two sectors that are doing really well, though, are defense and energy stocks, because they obviously profit from conflict and from high oil prices. But on the flip side, airline stocks and tech stocks are getting absolutely hammered because fuel is getting more expensive. And obviously with tech, conflict means interest rates will likely stay high for longer. Meanwhile, I just want to give a shout out to gold, because gold is really having like the year it never saw coming. It is hitting record highs over $5,400, which just proves that it is still the ultimate safe haven asset for when people are scared. But remember, gold does not compound. Gold is not like an asset that is really going up crazy amounts in value. It is just basically a store of value. So now that I have probably scared you a little bit and made it clear everything that is going wrong because of what's happening, let's talk about the action steps that you need to take to make sure that your financial life survives this. So first things first, and I haven't heard a lot of people talk about this, but you need to lock down your digital life because while all this is happening in the Middle east, there's definitely an invisible war also happening, like in the cyberspace. In times like this, groups are always trying to hack, like US Financial institutions and government databases. And so I would really recommend, if you haven't done this yet, for freezing your credit. It's completely free. My credit personally is always frozen. Super easy to do. And also audit your passwords and make sure that you have two factors set up. And then the next thing is just don't panic. Sell. I know that you probably want to. It's scary when you have money in the market and the market is so volatile, it makes you feel really uneasy. But never make permanent decisions based on temporary fear. I always say don't never let your emotions be your financial advisor. Stick to your long term plan. So no panic selling. And I just want to give a shout out to everyone who has an emergency fund and a high yield savings account because the Fed is probably going to be keeping their interest rates high with this new wave of inflation likely coming and so your cash is going to continue earning a solid return. And I will also say if you own energy or defense stocks, it might be a good time to like take some of those profits rather than riding the roller coaster back down. Just like depending on where you're at with your stock market portfolio. And then the next thing that I would really say to do is just prepare for inflation. Like I was seeing a lot of videos this weekend of people filling up their gas tanks because the price at the pump usually lags behind the oil barrel price by a few days. That's a great idea. I would also say delay any major purchases if you can, like a car or you know, if you want to buy a house because borrowing money is likely about to get a bit more expensive. Expensive. And then I will also say that if you have travel coming up, like if you're thinking about going to Europe this summer, you want to book your flights, do it now before the airlines bake these fuel surcharges into your ticket. And then the biggest thing in times like this is just also to stay informed and try not to be overwhelmed. Like the news cycle makes so much money off of these conflicts. Like see it. My friend Caitlin is a reporter on CNN and she was working all weekend. She did such an amazing job. But it's like, you know, they are pumping out content and the more scared that you are, the more you're going to watch and the more ads that they can sell. So limit your scrolling, limit your watching. It just leads to bad financial decisions if you need to check the markets in the morning and at the close. But like, don't be a panic participant, just be an observer. And like I said, we're thinking of everyone who's on the ground in this conflict and we hope that you are staying safe. But now let's get into our debt. Q and A, which I think you're really going to love because most people have debt. I would say most people listening to this have some debt. And this is going to be the episode where we turn things around, we take control of those loans and we finally learn how to pay them off once and for all. Let's get into it. Okay, if there is one thing that I'm like low key obsessed with financially, it is preventative health care. Healthcare is so expensive. We all know this. If you live in America like Taylor's oldest time, it is pricey to get sick, but as you get older it gets even more and more expensive. Every time that you ignore a dental cleaning or you postpone an annual checkup, or you just like convince yourself a weird system is just vibes, you are actually like putting yourself in a bit of financial peril because something could actually be wrong that you don't know about. And that's why I love ZocDoc. Because I know that health admin often feels like you need like a PhD in patients. But when you use ZocDoc, it's a free app and website and you can literally just go on there and search by specialty or even by symptom, read real patient reviews to understand the vibe, see real time availability and then just book an appointment. So there's no calling, no waiting on hold, no front desk Olympics. Like they basically removed everything annoying about making your doctor appointments so that you can just find and book high high quality in network doctors. Find someone that you love without needing a PhD in patients. And if you want to do in person, awesome. They can accommodate it. If you would rather do video also great. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments. Go to zocdoc.com financialt to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's z o c-o c.com financialt thanks Sockdoc for sponsoring this message. Okay, we need to talk about quints because this is exactly the kind of brand that makes getting dressed easier, smarter and cost less. Quints is all about elevated essentials that feel effortless. So like the kind of pieces that you can actually build a wardrobe around. And everything is designed for layering and mixing. So you're not just buying trendy one offs that you have no idea how to actually style. Like you're buying those staples that you can reach for over and over again and actually make getting dressed easy. What they're really good at is nailing the basics, but with quality that's made to last. So like 100% European linen and organic cotton. And it shows the stitching, the feel, the way the pieces hold up season after season. Like these are clothes that really can earn a piece in your rotation. So refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com financialtea for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-N-C-E.com financialtea okay, first question. Do I pay off debt or build my emergency fund first? I have $13,000 in credit card debt and almost nothing saved. If I throw everything at the debt and something comes up, I'm just putting it right back on the card. But if I focus on saving, I'm pleading 24% in interest every single month. I'm not paying it down. Every move feels like the wrong one. Dear Sugar Mama, help. Okay, this is such a good question. It's one that I get all the time and I feel like it comes from a really good place because for most people, their first step in their financial journey is just like saving emergency fund or paying off debt. And you like, it shows that you want to do something like you've got that dog in you. You want to be a future rich person. So like, I salute you, I see you. I think that's awesome. I will say though that you should focus on saving a three to six month emergency fund first before you pay off your debt. I know that it seems counterintuitive because you're like, wait, but I'm paying all this money in interest every month. Shouldn't I just knock that out and then focus on my savings? And the answer is no. You need to focus on your emergency fund first. Because if you are paying off your debt with no emergency fund and then you get into more debt, like say you have a job loss or you got in a car accident or like your pet needs surgery, any of these things that just come out of the blue, you're going to have to take on more debt to get out of that hole. Versus if we start saving that emergency fund, then we start to like plug that hole, which is really productive. And I will also say, like, there is no better way to save your emergency fund than to automate your deposits every month. Like, I would not be a millionaire, but like just going back, I would not have an emergency fund if I had not automated those deposits into my high yield savings account. So like, if you're listening and you're looking for a first step, it's set up that high yield savings account and then automate those deposits. Because then on autopilot, you're going to be building that emergency fund without even thinking about it, without even lifting a damn finger like the princess that you are. So that's definitely step one. I will also say, like, there's this crazy story about Kim Kardashian. I don't know if you guys knew this, but she was married when she was 19, not to, like, Ray J or anything to this random guy. And it was a really bad relationship. Like, he was really in control of her financially. And she didn't have any money, she didn't have an emergency fund, and she actually had really bad credit. Like, they talk about that on the show on, like, the first episodes of Kardashians too, that, like, when they started Dash, they needed to get all of the credit cards through Kourtney. Cause her and Khloe had really bad credit. But anyways, the guy was an asshole and she really needed to leave him, and she couldn't afford to. But Chloe had one of those. Did you guys have those when you were little? Like those huge Coca Cola bottles that were the piggy banks? We had one of those in my house. You, like, put your change in it or the dollars in it. So Chloe had one of those. And Kim really needed money. They obviously weren't like Kardashians as we know them yet. And so she cashed in her piggy bank and was able to get Kim, like, a few thousand dollars so that she could leave this guy and get a down payment on her own place. And obviously, Kim has since paid Chloe back. But I think that's also what's really important about emergency fund is that it gives you the power to leave situations that aren't serving you. Which, like, especially for women is so important. Like, even if you have, like, a toxic boss or you're in that toxic relationship, just having that money set aside is so important to be your step one because. Because it just gets you out of those shitty situations and allows you to build your empire like him. So emergency fund first, then debt. Okay, next question. I'm 41, and I co signed a car loan for my younger sister four years ago. Oh, my gosh. I don't know if my sister would do that for me. She stopped making payments six months ago. Okay? And now it is taking my credit score, and she won't return my calls. What are my options and how do I fix the damage she's done without completely blowing up our relationship? Oh, lordy. Okay, this is a tough one, because I'm sorry that we did not know each other when you signed that loan. But the truth is, like, when you co sign a loan, like, you are the loan, babe. Like, that is now your loan. You're not a backup. You're not a favor. Like, you are fully responsible the moment that you sign. Which is why, like, I mean, personally, I don't really. I don't co sign loans. It's not my. Not my thing, not my hobby. But obviously, you know, we all do things by accident sometimes, especially financially. Cause we're never taught. So right now, though, you do have options. And first one is just to make the payments yourself to just stop further damage, which is so annoying cause it's not your car, but like, okay, we gotta talk about it. Or you can call the lender and ask about, like, hardship or restructuring options. Or you could consider voluntary repossession to stop, like future fallout. And obviously none of these are fun, but all of them are better than doing nothing. And I feel like that's so important when you get into sticky financial situations is I feel like we all just freeze. It's actually called the ostrich effect. Like when ostriches get scared, instead of, like running away or anything, they bury their heads in the sand, which I feel like people are always doing with their finances. So this is not permanent. This is something that we can get out of. But you just do have to take action. And if she resurfaces, like, the only acceptable solution is refinancing into her name only and getting you completely off the loan. But like, for your credit, the late payments, yeah, they're gonna hurt, but don't worry, they're not permanent. Negative marks fall off after seven years. And like, their impact fades over time. And also, like, credit scores are really important, but like, they're important in the moments that you need a good credit score. You know what I mean? Like, if you're trying to get a new credit card or if you're applying for a mortgage. And it's like, if you're not doing any of those things right now, you also can spend this time just rebuilding and trying to figure out your next step forward. And you don't need to stress so much about it because, like, credit can be fixed. If there's one thing that I know, it can absolutely be fixed. And I would just say also keep your other accounts perfect and your utilization, credit utilization low, so that your score will recover quickly. You need to go knock on her door and like, figure this out, you know, because right now you are inextricably linked to her financially, which sucks. But you need to, like, figure out how to get out of that and like, where her head is at, you know? And like, if she can't pay off the car loans, then maybe, like, you create a payment plan with her, you know, that like, feels less horrible for her than like, dealing with the actual car loan company. Like, I Feel like you need to try and talk to her. Like if you've only just called her, like, can we like go in person and bang on her door? Like, we got to figure out what's going on with that girl. But keep us posted. That sucks. And if you are listening to this and you are considering co signing a loan, I've heard from people who like went on four dates with a guy and he's like, want to co sign a loan? It's like, do not co sign the loan. Unless you literally like are married to someone and like fully know their credit score and like know that they're good for it. And like you, you guys share your finances like it is a no. No. Next question. Haley, I'm a nurse. I make good money. But I have $18,000 in medical debt from a surgery I had two years ago that my insurance barely covered insurance be like that. It feels ironic cause obviously I am a nurse, but I've heard that medical debt hits your credit differently now. Is that true? And if so, should I be prioritizing this or my credit card debt? First, first, first of all, you are correct. I don't know if you went to like finance school as well as nursing school, but yes, medical debt was largely removed from credit reports in 2023, and in 2025 that was taken even further. So it's definitely no longer the credit score killer it used to be, which is a huge deal. But that doesn't mean that like, you can ignore it and not pay it off. What I would suggest before we even think about anything else, is negotiating it down because I feel like people do not realize that like, all medical debt is negotiable. Everything is negotiable. And if you're wondering what to say, how to even go about this, I have a free medical bill negotiation guide for you that I will link in the show notes and you can also get just like on my website or even if you just Google like medical bill negotiation, Mrs. Dow Jones. I'm sure it will come up the free guide. But that is tea and has like exactly what to say saying it and it teaches you how to, you know, call the hospital billing department, ask about financial assistance and charity care, see if they'll offer you a 0% interest payment plan. Like, these are all such good options that will relieve the financial burden and allow you to actually like make progress on this debt. So that's definitely like, let's start there because I feel like your bill is probably not even $18,000. Like between your charm and My negotiation hacks, we're going to be able to get her down. But then the real question was like, should you focus on paying off this debt first or your credit card debt? And I would say, like, let's first just try and get the medical debt to being a lower interest rate payment plan vibe, because I feel like they, a lot of hospitals will do like a 0% interest payment plan. So let's focus on getting that going. And then whatever extra money that you have, don't put it towards the medical debt, put it towards your credit card bills, because Those are like 20 to 30% interest rate, which is just so much higher and like just keeps you on this hedonic treadmill where you're just like never making progress. So we always focus on paying off our highest interest rate debts first and we just like leave our lower rate interest sort of like on autopilot until we can, you know, fully focus on them. Okay. Whoa. Okay, this one. I sort of knew this was going to be coming if we talked about debt, but. Okay. I've been married for six years and I just found out my husband has lost $22,000 in sports betting since last year. He told me it was a 20 bucks here and there on football games. It was not. I found a whole separate checking account he opened without telling me, and when I pushed him on it, he got defensive and said I was overreacting. We have two young kids. I don't know what to do. How do I stop him from losing more money? Okay, first of all, I'm so sorry for you. Like, this is such a tough situation and one that I think more families are struggling with than they care to admit because this is the fastest growing addiction in this country and it's one that people suffer with silently. So I will say, like, you are not overreacting. $22,000, that's a ton of money. That's like a child. Your children's college fund, like the beginning of it vanished into thin air. And I really feel like we need to be having the conversation about how to deal with partners who are addicted to gambling more because millions of people are doing this and we're seeing it everywhere. Like, even Kendall Jenner is doing super bowl ads for these apps. And it makes it look like this, like, chic, cute, light hearted hobby. But the reality check that they don't show is like, Kendall is out there collecting this massive check to be the face of that betting brand. And the celebrities that you see, like Drake's always doing that, are also promoting it. But they are staked, which means that they are playing with house money just to like, make the thrill look accessible to someone like your husband. But it's a marketing illusion. Like, they're actually not going to lose any money if their team loses. So they're doing everything they can to make this addiction look like a luxury lifestyle style. And I'm sure you can attest to this. But like, for your family, that lifestyle is not that glamorous. It just costs you $22,000. It fucking sucks. So first of all, when he tells you that you're overreacting, he is gaslighting you. Let's be clear. He's gaslighting you to protect his addiction. Like, it is a classic defense mechanism because the shame of losing that much money is so heavy that he can't even look at it it. So he's going to try and make you the villain for noticing it. But here's the thing, girl. The math doesn't lie. And like, having a secret checking account, that's not what happily ever after and like on the same financial page looks like. And in the world of wealth building, I will say the first rule is protecting your downside. And I hate to say it, but, like, right now, your husband is the downside. It's tragic, it's horrible. But like, we need you to move on from shocked wife to like CFO of the household as quickly as possible so that we can start to plug this hole. Because it will keep going on his end. So we need to protect you. So we need to put a financial firewall up between your money and his habits asap. So like, if your paychecks are still hitting a joint account, let's redirect those babies to a solo account. I want you to pull a full credit report, which legally you are entitled to. And this is so that we can see if there are other secret accounts out there or credit cards. Cards. Or maybe he took out a second mortgage, God forbid. But let's find out what we don't know about. Let's figure out where we're at, how bad this gets because we need to stop the bleeding before we can even think about healing his wound. And by the way, like, he needs help. Like, this isn't something that you can just support him through, isn't something that he can white knuckle. It definitely isn't something that he can just stop doing. And it's not something that a heart to heart is going to heal. Like, this is a clinical behavioral addiction that has been hijacked. His Brain's reward system like he needs a professional intervention. I want you to look for a therapist who is a certified gambling Counselor. They're called CGCs because they will actually speak the language of, like, chasing losses and micro betting to him that general therapists might miss. Gamblers Anonymous also has a lot of great resources out there for, you know, victims of this. But I will say, like, this is about your kids security and your peace of mind. And, like, you wouldn't let a stranger walk into your house and steal $22,000. So, like, we can't let a sports app do that just because your husband is the one holding the phone. So remember, you are CFO of the household. You are going to perform an emergency audit, and we are going to try and stop this drain and also figure out where we're at so that we can rebuild. And legally, you know, you have every financial right to do this, every legal right to do this. And I want you to just figure out and know what's out there and you're going to protect yourself. Now, regardless about what we're going to decide about the relationship, that is obviously step two. We got to, you know, figure out where we're at first. But some really good resources are. There's a National council on problem gambling, 1-800-My reset is really helpful. And Gamblers Anonymous also has resources, but specifically for partners too, which is so important. Anyone who's ever been to Al Anon knows, like, you need to talk to other people who are going through, who are, you know, terrorized by someone's addiction to make you feel less alone sometimes. So I'm feeling for you. I'm so sorry. And at least we know what the next steps are to take. And I'm so glad that you wrote in because now, at least, like, you know what's next. So we're rooting for you. And I'm so sorry for him. And it's this. We really do need, like, federal protection from these apps. Like, they cannot be normalized. I think it's so illegal. We need to lock Kendall Jenner up, lock Drake up. No more celebrity marketing. And they need to be highly regulated because it is truly destroying, especially young men. I mean, older men, too. But, like, it's just. It's horrific. Okay. I think that we can all agree that housing is extreme expensive. Like rent, mortgage. It doesn't matter which one you're paying. It is your biggest monthly expense. So the question becomes, is it even doing anything for you? Like, are you getting rewarded for that money? Well, that's where Built comes in. Built is a membership that rewards you with points on your housing payments, whether you rent or you own. And as of 2026 that includes mortgage payments too. So every payment earns you points that you can redeem towards things that you're already spending on. Like Built Points are honestly so valuable you can exchange them for flights with part centers like United hotel rooms with Hyatt Lyft rides, or even purchases on Amazon.com personally I always use my points towards travel. I just book travel to Los Angeles for my book tour on it. And what I feel like is also really underrated is their neighborhood concierge Like Built members can get help booking restaurant reservations, fitness classes, discovering new spots. It's this very seamless lifestyle driven experience all connected to where you live just like from being a Built member. So I really feel like your biggest expense should feel a little more considered and give you rewards. And with Built it is so join the membership where you live@joinbuilt.com t that's j o I n b I l t.com/t I've been a member since 2022 and I've never regretted it. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA you can you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply. Okay, next question. Everyone online says buy now, pay later. Apps are dangerous in a trap. Drag me. I always am saying that, but I generally don't understand why I use Klarna all the time. I always pay on time and it's never cost me a single dollar in interest. Brag. Can you explain to me like I'm five why this is is actually bad? Because from where I'm sitting it just feels like a way for me to buy the things I actually want at 0% interest. Okay, first of all, if buy NLP leader has no haters, I am dead. Because you guys know they're an enemy of this state. Like we don't mess around with them here. And if you use it like that, how it's supposed to be used, quote unquote, then slay. You're like nothing to worry about. You know, it's not a bad thing. But the issue is that most people are not using it that way and that's where it gets really, really pernicious. I will also say like what are you financing? Because the other issue that I have With Buy Now P leader is that it's a full psychological trap. Like when you split 200, $400 into four, eight, you know, smaller payments, it makes your brain register that smaller amount in instead of the bigger amount by design so that suddenly you're justifying things that you can't actually afford just because you're seeing that smaller number. And the research shows Buy now pay later users consistently spend more than they would have otherwise. And I will also say I'm like getting out of breath because I get so excited about this. Excited in like a bad way. I will also say something that people don't know is that the stores pay the Buy now pay later companies to be at their checkouts because they know that it's going to make you spend more money. So like these services don't have your best interests at heart. They are there to trap you, to get you into debt, to have you be financing as many things as possible. And you know, it all started from a good place. They were originally created to help people who didn't have any credit to be able to finance things, which is wonderful. But they've devolved into something through capitalism obviously that is really harmful to people's finances. And I will also say, like they really brand everything in like cute packaging and all of that. But you know, if you miss those payments from them, say you're not like being a pick me and paying everything back on time. The interest rate is higher than a credit card company and it will hit your credit report. That's something that's starting to happen. You're also not earning any credit card points with them. So like if you are financing something big, credit card companies have 0% interest payment plans. I would much rather you use that if you're doing it responsibly. So at least also you're getting points for those bigger purchases. And then you're able to like, you know, fly first class for free or you know, like use those people points in an optimized way to like live a great lifestyle. So I will say like, you know, to your original question, like if you use it the way that you are using it, no, it's not actually bad. But I will also say like ask yourself the question, are you buying things that you would buy anyways and just managing the cash flow or are you buying things you couldn't otherwise afford? Because one is fine and the other is a trap, but please don't use them. Next question. Haley. I feel like everything I've ever been taught about money is that debt is bad and I should avoid it at all costs. But I keep hearing wealthy people say that they actually use debt to build wealth and that avoiding debt entirely is a middle class mindset. Can you break this down for me? Because either everything my parents taught me is wrong or rich people are just rationalizing bad behavior behavior. And I genuinely can't tell which is which. Okay, first of all, this is such a great question because. And it's really why I wrote Future Rich Person the New rules for building wealth. Because I feel like what our parents taught us and like, how they, like, made money is just so outdated in our new society and like modern 2026 landscape. And leveraging debt. Leveraging good debt is one of the ways that you can really build wealth in this modern age. So, yes, you are correct. There is such thing as good debt. And it all revolves around this 7% rule. And because, like, money is a game. And the 7% rule is really important if you want to learn how to play it. So, like, the first step to leveraging good debt is figuring out if you have low or high interest rate debt. And 7% is the magic number to figure that out out. So, like, if your interest rate is higher than 7%, it is considered high interest rate debt. Credit card debt is usually like 20 to 30% or higher. And if your interest rate is lower than 7%, it's considered low interest rate debt. So that could be like your student loans. Maybe you got a good mortgage rate. And the reason that 7% is so important is because over the past 100 years, the stock market has delivered an average return of. Of 7%, adjusted for inflation. So if your interest rate is under 7%, you will earn more interest investing your money than your debts will cost you. And many people just have debt because they're never really taught how debt works. But there is a game to it. And I'm going to give you the example of Beyonce and Jay Z because they have a mortgage, which is crazy, because they are worth, like, they're the most. They're the richest couple in the music business, but they have a mortgage. They bought an $88 million mansion with a $53 million mortgage. And the reason that they did this is because when they got a mortgage, they freed up that $53 million to invest with. If they put that into the s and P500, and maybe they got 8% back each year and it compounds annually in 30 years, they would have, guys, don't drop your iPhone. They would have $531 million. So their net profit from getting the mortgage would be almost like $450 million. So like if you are able to borrow money at a lower interest rate than you could meet that you could earn investing it, you can really like just run game and build wealth. And for most people those 7% interest rate, low interest rate loans are those student loans. And I know that like for our parents generation, they always told us that like financial success meant being completely debt free. Like we always rush to pay those off even if they're low interest to ring a bell and like scream I'm debt free. But you could potentially make more money paying the minimum monthly payment and investing your freed up cash towards retirement than you would just by paying it all off at once, once. And you can do this with home payments too if your mortgage is low interest rate debt. But just remember, high interest rate debt should always be paid off aggressively. It's very expensive. But if it's low interest rate debt, you can pay it off while contributing like to your investment accounts, to retirement. And money is a game. And that's why we need these new rules for building wealth because they're going to teach you how to play it. And I really believe that like it is the old generation where the culture was like being debt free meant that you were financially successful, but like they were actually catfishing us. You need to run the numbers before you rush to like pay off those debts quickly. Okay, our final question and reminder. Email T Mrs. Dow Jones.com if you want your question featured on the next year Sugar Mama. This is embarrassing, but I covered dinner for a group of six friends two months ago. The bill was $720. Trying to rack up those points. LOL. I sent Venmo requests to everyone the next morning and one friend still hasn't paid. She's seen it. She's active on Instagram. She commented on my photo last week. But we're not close enough for me to make it weird. But we are close enough that it is awkward. Like do I send a reminder that seems aggressive or do I let it go? I feel crazy for caring about $120, but it's the principal. Okay, first of all, thank you for reminding me because I put dinner on my card last night and I do have to. Venmo, my friend Samantha and Naomi both $100 for dinner. So I'm going to do that after I answer this. But you're not crazy. I would be so annoyed. $120 is $120 and I have a friend who does this to me every time. His name is Max. He is my best friend, and he has, like, paid for so many things in my life that he's always like, no, I'm not paying you back for dinner. Like, you've literally come over to my house a million times and I've, like, got you dinner. So I just sort of let it go with him because it's, like, a funny part of our dynamic. But, like, with anyone else, I would be fucking pissed. Like, this ain't right. So I would be aggressive. I would send the reminder, keep it breezy. Send a text like, hey, just flagging the Venmo in case it got buried. Because, like, some people are so type B that they're, like, using their passport at the bar and they completely forget about their Venmo requests. Like, I. My dog walker venmos me. And I have to, like, consciously remember to go into Venmo and to pay her because, like, she would never send me a reminder because she, I think, feels awkward. But it's like, it's not like I'm consciously trying to dodge her. It's just that, like, I'm doing a million things and I sort of forget. But that's neither here nor there. I will say, like, if you do all of that, though, and she still doesn't pay, you do need to write off the $120, because even though you were doing it to get the points, you were basically lending money. And you should never lend money, especially to a friend that you. You can't afford to say goodbye to. And then I would also, like, quietly write off the friendship in that moment, too, and maybe never put her on a group bill again. Like, some people, actions speak louder than words. Like, they will tell you. They'll show you exactly who they are. The bigger lesson is, like, points are great. I freaking love points. Like, I'm going to Morocco next week on points. Flying with points. Like, addicted. But also, like, some people are so weird financially and cannot be trusted. Did. If they think that if you put your card down for dinner, like, you're paying for their dinner, even if you're like, I'm Venmoing you. So for those people, we need to create boundaries and keep them out of our financial lives. And that is the damn truth. And. But don't lose sleep over the 120. I know it sucks. It's a lot of money. But, like, that is the. You gambled and you lost and, like, just never do it again with that person. You know, send a lot of reminders. But then like don't drive yourself crazy trying to search for this. Just move on. Find your peace, find your happiness and don't ever split dinner with her again. Like don't ever put her on your group bill. Okay? Thank you guys so much for listening. I love you sippers and please will you leave a review on Apple Pod? I'm trying to get to 100 reviews. It's my goal and you guys can make it happen. So please go in there. I will read all of them and it would be so exciting. And once we got to 100 I will do job a good give away and I've got a lot of cool things to give away. So make sure if you have any financial tea that you send it to T Mrs. Dow Jones. And thank you sippers for listening. We will be back next week with more money, intel and piping hot financial gossip. Please email tmissdow jones.com and please stay rich. Love you. Bye.
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