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A
This episode of Financial Tea is brought to you by Ancient and Brave. They have been an iconic and trusted wellness brand in the UK for years and now that they will launch in the US across the pond I have been integrating two of their hero products into my daily routine. I like their True Creatine plus and their True Collagen. And let's start with the True Creatine plus baby, because suddenly everyone is taking creatine. But what's interesting is that women naturally store 70 to 80% less creatine than men, which means we can actually experience more noticeable benefits from supplementation. And Ancient and Braves True Creatine plus not only helps enhance physical performance, but it has added taurine, vitamin D and magnesium. So it also helps support energy, improve cognitive function and just overall well being. It's neutral tasting and I take it daily, even on my non workout days. I've been stacking that with their best selling clinically studied True Collagen which is a hero product for positive aging, active lifestyles and just like that, beauty from within. Go to ancientandbrave.com planet and use code T for $10 off any purchase. That's ancient and brave.com planet code T for $10 off. Okay guys, I just upgraded my mattress and honestly like thank God I found out about Birch when I did because those mattresses are stylish, they're comfortable and most importantly they are crafted with responsibly sourced materials. And every Birch mattress is constructed with non toxic materials and they have a focus on breathability which really helps keep you cool at night. But the best part of the whole thing is that you can do an 120 night risk free trial just to see how your body adjusts. And it's so easy. The mattresses are shipped directly from their facility to your door for free and it comes rolled up in a box and it's super easy to set up. I want all my listeners to enjoy a deep restful night's sleep and a new mattress from birch. Go to birchliving.com financialtea for 27% off site wide that is exclusive for listeners of financial tea that is birchliving.com financialTea and you will get 27% off sitewide birchliving.com financialteA I think that's what makes it fascinating.
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B
People are like what is it that makes Anna Wintour decide to pick you? That you get to go and walk up those steps in a dress custom made for you by one of the world's greatest designers. You know, what is it about you?
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A
What's up rich people? It's me, Haley, aka Mrs. Dow Jones. And this is Financial Tea. Today is a very exciting episode of Financial Tea. I have been wanting to talk to this guest for a long time. I was trying to figure out like what the right moment was and I thought the first week of May would sort of be the perfect opportunity because we can talk about the Met Gala. And my guest is Amy Odell, author of Gwenneth Paltrow and Anna Win's biographies. She has an amazing newsletter, she hosts the Back Row podcast, and she is the best selling author of both Gwyneth Paltrow and Anna Win's biographies. You guys, if you are going on vacation or you just like need a new book in general, like, these are two of my favorite biographies of all time. They are so juicy. You're truly an enemy of both of those ladies states because you found all of the tea out. So girl after my own heart. You really brought a lot to the surface. I would call you a tea leaf reader of celebrity power and influence. And I'm excited for you to be here so that we can talk about the Met gal and all the finances that go into it.
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B
What an intro. It feels electric. Was electric. Thank you.
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A
But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report. Okay, today's Market Report is a special edition focused on the business of influencing. Please don't turn this off. Even if you're not an influencer, you are affected, I promise. Like, as Oprah once said, were you influenced or were you an influencer? Jk, she said, were you silent or were you silenced? But like, same thing. Let's start with Nara Smith, though. She just announced her cookbook Homemade, which is dropping October 13th. It has 80 recipes, it's got a custom Redart cover. She's wearing Ralph Lauren, she's wearing Thom Browne. And look, I just wanna be real. This woman has 17.2 million followers. So, like, if you think this cookbook and the lifestyle that she's selling is about staying home and baking bread and taking care of your husband, it is not. It's a business, a very successful one. And here's the thing that I wanna highlight. Tradwife Content sells this idea of opting out, but it only exists because the person creating it is hyper, online and fully opted in. So, like, what you're looking at is an eight figure business model basically disguised as domesticity. And importantly, the product is not the lifestyle. Like, the product is emotional relief. Like, right now, people are overwhelmed. Like, burnout is high. We all just Want chickens and eggs and like, a life outside in a barn. Like, the cost of living is so high, the future feels unstable. So, like, what sells control, simplicity, this fantasy of a slower life. And, you know, I talk a lot about the monetization of nostalgia in hard. And this is exactly like that. Because, like, behind the scenes, this lifestyle requires filming and editing and negotiating and building and distribution. And like, that is called a full time job, honey. A high skill, entrepreneurial job. Okay? Nara is not opting out of work. She is rebranding it and then selling you the illusion that she did so in a lot of ways, I just think this is like the girl boss era in a corset. It's the same hustle, but it's got a new aesthetic and better performing content. The 2010's Girl boss said, I can do it all at the Office, and the 2026 trad wife says, I choose to do it all at home. But the difference is that the tradwife era also carries a genuinely risky financial message underneath it. Because in today's economy, if you actually opt out without income, without ownership, without leverage, when you become reliant on a man because you're just like at home taking care of, you make yourself incredibly vulnerable. So, like, the aesthetic is beautiful, but the financial reality, it implies that being financially dependent is a positive thing, is not. So I just want to be clear. The trad wife isn't opting out of capitalism. She is winning at it. But the question is whether her audience knows that they are the product. And that's sort of the theme of this whole market report. Oh, and speaking of the audience not knowing they're the product I want to talk about. So sponsored influencer weddings because we are entering wedding season and an influencer just had her wedding sponsored by Drumroll, please. Capital One. Okay, and this has become normal. We're not gonna have white wedding dresses anymore. We're going to look like NASCAR drivers walking down the aisle with, like, different patches from brands. Like, brides are designing their days with a will go viral mindset. I saw acquired styles at Phuket's getting her, you know, group of bridesmaid spray tans. Lord knows where they're off to by the time that I release this. You know, it's all a content moment. Sure, the day is still emotional. You might really love the person you're married, but it's also a shoot. And here's the part that nobody is talking about. These influencers aren't paying for any of it. That Phuket suite She didn't pay for that. The photo booth gifted the florals a partnership. The dresses, the late night fireworks, it is all split. Sponsored. The whole thing is essentially a free wedding in exchange for content, which, again, respect the hustle. But, like, when that wedding goes viral, it becomes the new benchmark. So, like, the average bride who does not have a Capital One deal is now trying to recreate a $500,000 event on a $30,000 budget. And look, the American wedding industry is already a $70 billion machine built on the idea that your wedding should be, like, literally the most spectacular thing that you've ever done, the best day of your life. And I feel like all of these influencer weddings have just poured jet fuel on that. And it's worrisome because couples are going into serious debt trying to match this esthetic that was literally free for the person who said it. I don't know. I just think this whole thing is like a trend setting machine where the person at the top pays nothing and everyone downstream pays everything. It's basically mlm. It's an mlm, you guys. And I don't think that's love. That is a funnel. And then our last story is about sandwiches. If you didn't know this about me, I'm the biggest Jersey Mike's girl. We eat it like once a week at my office. It is so good. I'm obsessed. And they are ipoing. And my phone was blowing up. Cause everyone was like, haley, you're obviously gonna buy the Jersey Mike's ipo. And I was like, actually, girl, I ran the numbers and I would never buy the Jersey Mike's ipo. And so I want to explain what an IPO even freaking is and why they're not right for everyone. So basically, an IPO is an initial public offering. So it's when a private company goes public and everyone can then invest in it, and then, like, the early investors get to cash out. So let's talk about what the Jersey Mike's ipo specifically. Like, who is going to benefit from them going public on the New York Stock Exchange. In this case, it's going to be Blackstone. Yes, Blackstone, the private equity group that everyone loves to hate. They, and my ex works at bought. They bought Jersey Mike's in 2024 for $8 billion. And two years later, it had a $12 billion valuation. So, like, this isn't really about Jersey Mike's even needing capital to scale. It's really about Blackstone getting out. Like, they want to flip it the sandwich is the vehicle. The exit is the point. So you always need to ask when you see these things, like, who is selling and why now? And it's like, yeah, Blackstone wants to make some money. Okay? The next thing that you want to do when you see an IPO is. Is read the numbers, not the narratives. Like, obviously, like I said, I love Jersey Mike's. Oh, yeah. You would think I want to invest in them because I love their juicy, juicy sandwiches. Absolutely not. I looked at the numbers. Their revenue is up 10.6%, which sounds great, but their net income is down 23%. So that gap is the most important line in the filing, and most people are going to skip right past it. Healthy companies grow both and when they diverge. You need to find out why before you hand over your money. So the next thing you need to do is understand, if you're even getting a good deal, like, understand what you're paying for. So Jersey Mike's at $12 billion, at $309 million in revenue. That means that you're paying 39 times revenue. And, guys, that is not fast food math. That is, like tech AI Company math for a sandwich. So it's overpriced. And I get it. You're buying what someone is promising it will become. That's like, the whole point of investing. But I'm just saying, like, those re. That's crazy to me, like, that I'm paying, like, tech prices for sandwich. And the last thing I will say with an IPO is you always want to watch the signals, because they always shift around, like, who's leading the company before they go public. Like with Jersey Mike's, they just hired the guy who took Wingstop public in 2015 and delivered a 700% return over a decade, which to me, is like a message to Wall Street. You know, it's not even an operations decision. They're just like, yeah, we mean business. And you know what? I'm rooting for them. I love Jersey Mike's, but I will not be buying this stock, this IPO. Absolutely not. At 39 times revenue, with falling net income. Like, I don't care who the new CEO is. You have to really believe hard in that story to get on board. And the job of every IPO is to make you do that before you even see the receipts. But we are here at the financial T. We are sippers. We always look at the receipts, and we know the difference between a great sandwich and a great investment. And that's why we are so rich and smart. So, yeah, don't fall for these IPOs, baby. Just buy low cost index funds. They honestly, they all tank. Okay, now let's get into our interview. You started as a journalist, right? And then you forayed into writing these books that have, like, really cemented your place in the culture. As you know, this expert on, of course, Gwyneth Paltrow, but also Anna Wintour, who's someone who just has such a legend about her. And what I loved about your book was learning that Anna had always been Anna. Like, even when, you know, like she was like in high school, like, changing the hems on her skirts, speaking back to the teachers. At her first job, she brought in new furniture for the office. Like, she has always been that girl with, like, her own perspective who, you know, had her own vision of how things were supposed to be. Like, can you talk a bit more about that?
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B
Yeah. So Anna is the daughter of Charles Winter, who was a very well respected and well known newspaper editor. And she's very much like her father. He was called Chilly Charlie. One of the people who worked for him told me that he would, like. Anna's not big on small talk. When you're meeting someone for the first time or hanging out with someone who you don't know. I think many people have the natural inclination to fill the space, to just, you know, make conversation. But Anna doesn't do that. And actually her father, someone who worked with him, told me he would write down things to talk about at lunch, like if you took a staff member to lunch, and then that would help him drive the conversation. But he was known as being cold, foreboding, intimidating, rather like her.
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A
So. But talk about her route to the Met Gala. Because when, like, she started with the Met Gala, it was not what it is now. It was like a small little charity event. Like, okay, you know, and it was in support of. You could tell us about it, but in support of the Costume Institute at the Museum of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, which is completely self funded. So it has to. All the money has to be raised.
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B
Yeah. So Anna's first event was in 1995. And Oscar de la Renta called her and asked her if she would help plan it. And it was historically known as the party of the year. Ooh.
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A
Oh. So even then I would say, yeah,
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B
nobody calls it the party of the year anymore. Cause it's so much more than that. The super bowl of entertainment events. Maybe not just fashion. She took it on in 1995. The idea was that they wanted someone from the Fashion world to planet, but they didn't want a designer because they thought that would be a conflict of interest. She ends up taking it on. And I think the initial plan was for her and Liz Tilburys, who was her rival editor at Harper's Bazaar, to kind of alternate. But then Liz Tilbaras died in the late 90s of cancer, and Anna took it on, and she's been doing it basically ever since. So from 1999 through today, I think they skipped 2001 because of 9, 11. But she's been planning it every single year. And the Costume Institute is unique within the Metropolitan Museum of Art because it has to raise all its own money. It does not benefit from the Met's endowment. And historically, it has sort of been the. I don't know how to say this.
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A
Stepchild.
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B
Yeah, the like, bastard step. Yeah, the.
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A
Yeah, yeah. Like the one that we're going to cut if it doesn't work. Like.
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B
Yeah, it just wasn't like, is fashion art? I think that's a question that, like, maybe it gets debated less to this day. You know, we see designers or brands like Schiaparelli getting big exhibitions in the V and A. I think these fashion exhibits have really proliferated around the globe and become a lot more popular, in large part owing to the success of the Costume Institute at the Met, which is able to be so big and fabulous and splashy because of all the money that Anna Wintour has helped raise for it. So, yes, it has to raise all its own funds. It doesn't benefit from the Mets endowment. And the primary way it does that is through the Met Gala.
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A
In order to go to the Met Gala, it's like for. With most charity events, if you wanted to go, you could go. You just buy a ticket. But this is a charity event that even if you have the money to buy a ticket and you'll walk us through, of course, I hope how much the tickets are this year, because I. I want that. All that data. But you're not allowed to just buy a ticket. Are you kidding? No. You have to be approved by. By Ms. Wintour herself.
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B
Yes. So this has evolved greatly over the years, I would say. Yeah. But it used to be kind of this sort of stuffy, old fashioned society event where, you know, rich people who've done the Upper east side of New York would buy a ticket, they would go, they would have a nice evening at the museum and that would raise sufficient funds. And that was kind of that when
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A
I was a babysitter on the Upper east side. For a boy named Winthrop. But then I had, like, other clients, too. You know, I'd get to Fifth Avenue, whatever. I had to babysit once for the parents going to the Met Gala, like, just a rich couple.
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B
So those people have kind of been shunted. Yeah, I would say. And there was. I think this has kind of disappeared. Well, I think that the whole world. This is a topic for another pod, but I think the whole world of Upper east side polite charity events, like, that's all really changed. I used to cover those events when I was just starting my career as a journalist in New york magazine around 2008. And I. I just feel like there's a lot less of that and it's all really changed. But anyway. Yeah, so it used to be that sort of event in New York.
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A
Talk us through.
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B
So when Anna took It over in 1995, a ticket for one person was $11,000. In 2025, tickets for one person were $75,000. And tables in 2025 started at $350,000.
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A
That's so crazy. But I think it's important to note that because it is a charity event that is tax deductible.
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B
Yes. But I guess it's complicated with the tax deductions, and you probably know more about that than me, but I did pull because I knew you wanted to talk about that. I'm. I'm not an accountant. I'm a journalist, so. But the New York Times did a story about this in 2025, so about a year ago by Benjamin Applebaum. And I can tell you. I can tell you what he wrote about this, because he was kind of saying that in this piece. It's called the really Unfair Thing about the Met Gala. He says, what does stick in my craw is that the Met gets to reap the benefits of a large. Of larger federal tax breaks than your local church or soup kitchen. Americans with bigger incomes get larger income tax deductions on every dollar they donate to charity. If the famous and fabulous people who glided up the Met's blue carpeted steps at the Costume Institute's annual gala on Monday evening actually paid for their own tickets, which ran 75k per person, they could deduct most of the cost. For some of them, that could amount to a discount of about 30% off the price of admission.
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A
So when something is tax deductible doesn't mean that it's right. It just means that you're getting some. Some sort of offset to your taxable income with it.
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B
Exactly. So you don't Pay taxes on that part that you're deducting and the part that you. I guess, you pay for, like, the cost of, like, your meal and the entertainment. And it's the part that is, like, the charitable donation that is protected.
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A
Right.
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B
Okay.
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A
Exact. So they have to. They. Yeah, they have to value how much, like, the rest of it is, and then whatever is left over is what's tax deductible.
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B
Right. So then some people will argue, and I think that what this piece is basically arguing is that, like, you know, if a billionaire donates to the Met Gala, they reduce their tax bill, which means the government collects less revenue, which means that a subsidy is, in effect, going to the Costume Institute versus, say, health care for people who really need it.
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A
Look, there's a lot of issues with the tax code. It was written by the people that it protects. So, you know, and that's like, a bigger, deeper issue that just is part of living in America that, like, you know, so much of tax deductions and things and, like, how it's protected is just because of, like, the fact that it's people protecting themselves. But I will say it is good to donate to the arts.
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B
And that's one argument that I've heard repeatedly for why it's fine that Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez Bezos are sponsoring, AKA funding this year's gala, in part because isn't this what billionaires are supposed to do is to fund their money to museums and to the arts? And not everyone agrees with that, but that is an. An argument in defense of them being involved that I've heard a lot.
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A
I do agree that billionaires should bankroll the arts, like, 100%. I think there needs to be, like, so many grants for artists and, like, free museums and all of that. But I think that what's happening with the Bezos is something that we're seeing with a lot of billionaires where they understand the power of media. And it's not something that you can. It is something that you can just buy, but it's also something that's, like, very sort of mercurial and, like, needs to, like, be created first. And Vogue has all of that cachet. And so their connection to Vogue, to me, feels much more like they are trying to own the narrative of themselves versus actually from, like, a good place in their hearts, trying to contribute to the. The museum.
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B
Yeah, I think the cynical counter argument, or maybe not even cynical, but the counter argument to that point that, oh, they're doing what they're supposed to do. They're giving their money to this thing is that they're using fashion and entertainment and the Met Gala and Vogue, etcetera, to launder their. Their images.
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A
Do you agree with that? I think that's true.
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B
Yeah. I think so. I think that, you know, I was talking to tech journalist Taylor Lawrence about this on my podcast recently, because we're seeing a lot of these tech billionaires just kind of show up in fashion, and it's weird, it's really unexpected to see Mark Zuckerberg sitting front. And she made the point. And I. And I think it's a good one that they're using these spaces where they can just show up, get photographed. They don't have to answer any questions. They just sit there to kind of seem, like, cool and okay, you know. So when Anna took on the Met, there was no sponsorship. It was purely about charity. And one of her publishers at Vogue from over the years told me, like, we were not allowed to monetize, that it was just purely charity. So now that has changed. Vogue sells sponsorships of the content that it creates of the gala. I mean, publishing is not what it was today in 1999, obviously. So now Vogue sells those sponsorships for, like, mega, mega bucks.
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A
Yeah. So let's talk about the media impact value, because I feel like we haven't even touched on the fact that the carpet of the Met Gala actually has a bigger media impact value than the Super Bowl. So think about the fact that, like, it's a known thing that advertisers blow all their money on super bowl ads, but actually, the. Because so many people are watching it, so, like, that's a great place to really double down. But the. The Met Gala has. The c. Has more of an impact in the media than the super bowl does. And so let's talk about those numbers, because I know that those are quantified, like, how much each of those are.
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B
I think what we know about the value of being there is that it's really how it pertains to Vogue's business. And I think you can just see this in Conde Nast's business model as it stands today and as it's evolving today. So they're kind of trying to. What they're doing is they're monetizing the Met Gala very effectively, so they're trying to come up with other events that they can monetize in the same way. That's why we're seeing the Vanity Fair Oscar party kind of evolved into something that's a little bit more like the Met Gala with their livestream that they did this year. I think GQ. GQ's like man of the year event and stuff like that. Vogue is doing Vogue World. It's sort of like they're doing these events just that they can so they can post about that so they can sell ads against the post.
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A
Lately I've been being more intentional about what I wear day to day. Leaning into pieces that feel effortless and comfortable. But I always want to look put together. It just like makes getting dressed simpler. And quints has honestly been my go to. Like the fabrics feel so elevated, the fits are flattering and everything just sort of works without overthinking it. Quince makes it easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. I have their Mongolian cashmere crew neck sweater and it is so soft it is crazy. I have this gorgeous kind of like eggshell blue color but there's also a very pale yellow sort of limited edition version that I'm eyeing. But anyways, refresh your everyday with luxury you will actually use. Head to Quince.comFinancialTea for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.comFinancialTea for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comFinancialTea okay, I have a new financial and emotional support beverage. It's called Oho and it's basically what drinking should feel like if alcohol had better PR. We are talking cannabis infused seltzer that is 20 calories which honestly feels fake. Like spiritually I don't believe that you get zero hangover. It's fast acting and it actually boosts my mood. I never got that like why did I text him that energy. It's just vibes. It's fun, it's chilling. And OHO doesn't just stop at drinks. They also have tinctures, topicals, gummies, chocolate, skincare. I mean even dog treats. So yes, mystery and I can finally be on the same wavelength. Growth. What I love is you can actually choose your experience. So like focus, sleep, social, whatever mood you're budgeting for that day. And everything is sustainably grown, super transparent and it's not giving mystery weird ingredient energy. Go to weareho.com and use code financial tea for 20% off. That's W E A R-E-O-H-H-O.com code financialtea stay hydrated, stay elevated, stay rich. So how Much do they pay? Because I know they always have an amazing performer. How much do they pay them?
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B
So in 2015, Rihanna was paid around a million bucks to perform, as I reported in my book and of the biography. And then we also know that in 2024, when the entertainment was Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo, the entertainment costs were around $1.3 million. And then in 2025, we know that the entertainment costs were about $1.2 million. That was Usher and Stevie Wonder performing.
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A
And do you know how much it costs to actually just put on the gala? Like, who, who foots that bill is.
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B
So we can see. So we can see in the tax filings what the, what the fundraising events cost. The Costume Institute, and it's primarily the Met Gala that is those fundraising costs. So in 2025, the Costume Institute spent nearly $7 million on fundraising events.
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A
Okay, so around seven.
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B
It earned. Yes. And it raised, excuse me, $31 million. Wow, that's a good return. Yeah. So Anna has topped her haul, I think, just about every year.
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A
But what's amazing is the event both raises money for the Costume Institute, generates so much money for Vogue because they monetize the content that they're making about it.
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B
That's right.
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A
And that's not being donated. So it's. She's so smart. It's like a juggernaut. Like, it's like they're. She's got you a girl who can do both. She's raising money and she's making money.
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B
So I do know that in 2022, Vogue charged a million dollars for two six second spots over the course of two hours in the Met Gala livestream. And that reporting comes from the business of fashion.
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A
But not to mention, like just all the money they're making on the views, like they're selling spots. But then they're also just like getting so many followers, they're having such a, like they're owning the feed. Like, when you go on your phone the first Monday in May, all that you see is the Met Gala.
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B
Exactly. And then I think it's safe to say too that the celebrities are benefiting and profiting as well. Because let's say you have a contract with a big brand like Dior and you have to wear Dior a certain number of times throughout the year. Well, then you're, you're checking that box or whatever it may be.
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A
Is the gala more expensive in certain years over others? Like, what dictates how much it costs?
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B
Well, I think they just try to make, raise more money. Every single year. And so it's all, like, has also tried to keep it smaller and more exclusive. As much as I hate to use that overused word, you know, thinking that, you know, we'll charge more. Like, we'll be able to charge more if it feels more exclusive.
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A
Everything should be exclusive. It really does. Scarcity drives up the price.
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B
I think that you could also argue that the optics are getting challenging just because of inequality in the country right now.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I interviewed for my backroom newsletter recently, someone from the group Everyone Hates Elon that's planning a protest of Jeff Bezos, pegged the Mac out in New York City.
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A
I've heard there's a lot of people are, you know, they got their, Their. They got their. Their markers out. They're making their signs like they're ready to go.
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B
Yeah. So the Bezos funding of this year's event has been hugely controversial as. As we've discussed. And this group effectively demonstrated at their wedding in Venice.
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A
Oh, yeah, that would. They did a good job.
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B
They made a big banner that they unfurled in sort of like a plaza in Venice about how great Bezos should pay his tax. But that was picked up by, like, every single news outlet. Because I got the right picture, the right words. It created the perfect sort of viral moment. So they're planning something. I don't know what exactly they're going to do. But anyway, the person from this group Everyone Hates Elon, who I interviewed said, I don't think this stuff is that fun anymore. And I. I wonder if that's kind of like the core thing that the gala has to overcome these days is, you know, it kind of expects the audience to lavish praise and attention and fandom on all of these people who get to be there, who get to walk up the steps because they're paid for or because they were able to pay this, you know, extraordinary, exorbitant amount of money. Meanwhile, there's just so much suffering and income inequality is just, you know, getting exacerbated. I'm sure you have all the stats on that, the K shaped economy, all of that. So I think the optics around the event have gotten a little bit more challenging since COVID I think that's such a good point.
- [30:23]
A
And I feel like with celebrity culture in general, something that draws people to it is that it is this form of escapism. Like we can lose ourselves in an episode of the Kardashians or, you know, looking at pictures of, you know, a celebrity on the Daily Mail, and it takes you out of your own life for a minute. But as the temperature in the country has turned up and, you know, wages have stayed the same, inflation has gotten crazy, student debt, no one could own a home, all of these things about how the American dream is. Is sort of dead. And like, we need a new American dream. I think that it's been a lot harder to embrace that escapism.
- [31:06]
B
Exactly. That's exactly what this protester was saying.
- [31:08]
A
Yeah, I think that's really true. But I also wonder, despite the fact that, yes, that's true, how much that will actually change. Because at the end of the day, that's more a thought, but it doesn't really. The way that the media is run right now is so algorithm based and so meta. Whether. Whether they're going to admit it or not, as like a sponsor of the Met Gala is obviously when you open your phone, no matter who you are on the day of the Met Gala, you're being pushed that content. So despite the fact that, like, yes, it is a little dystopian, it doesn't mean that it's not going to still every year get bigger and, like, have more value. You know what I mean? It's sort of like out. It's. It's too big to fail.
- [31:52]
B
I think that there is a risk that people don't go because of controversies associated with it. You know, did hear about stars that were a little wary of going when they did Karl Lagerfeld because that was really controversial.
- [32:03]
A
Yeah, because that's the other thing.
- [32:05]
B
It's like Anna has no problem, you know, staging these elaborate homages to these very controversial people. Karl Lagerfeld was a controversial dude.
- [32:13]
A
It would take the biggest people taking a stand, like the Kardashians and like all the other, like Sydney Sweeney and the big people. But guess what? Sydney Sweeney's lingerie line is sponsored by Jeff Bezos. And Kim Kardashian is. Loves to vacation on his boat.
- [32:30]
B
Yeah, I think people need it. I think people need it. I mean, I think that the thing that. I don't know, it's kind of like, where do we end up with the current state of inequality?
- [32:38]
A
Let's solve it.
- [32:39]
B
Where do we end up? I just. I don't know. I don't know where we end up. But I see it in my reporting every single day. I see it in fashion. I mean, I'm a fashion journalist, fashion culture journalist. I interview Vic's very important clients who are the top spenders at brands like Chanel and Dior. Some of these women spent half a Million to seven figures and up a year on. On clothes. And they're rewarded with these perks. And then on the other end of the spectrum is she in and Temu and instant fashion that's washing up on beaches in Ghana and causing, you know, a whole host of problems owing to pollution and all that. So there's just the K. It's like the K shaped economy, like, it manifests everywhere. I don't know where we end up, but I do see this tension even within fashion. That is an industry that is very sort of friendly to wealth and to wealthy people. And there's been a big movement in fashion lately to kind of open it up a bit more, like let people who are just fans kind of participate in this industry. And the Met Gala is the very opposite of that. And I think that's what makes it fascinating. People are like, what is it that makes Anna Wintour decide to pick you, that you get to go and walk up those steps and address custom made for you by the. One of the world's greatest designers. You know, what is it about you? Like, who does she deem worthy of that honor? But that has all just come under a lot more scrutiny in the last six years. And I don't. I don't know where it ends up, but I see the tension. I see the strain in just so many aspects of my reporting.
- [34:14]
A
Have you heard any solutions that you think are worth acknowledging?
- [34:19]
B
From what I know, I don't see a lot coming from the Vogue side because, you know, she put Lauren Sanchez in the magazine in these big profiles twice written by Chloe Mal, the new head of editorial content. One, of course, was the digital cover story pegged to her wedding. And then the other was a profile in the magazine which had that famous photo of her and Jeff Bezos embracing.
- [34:43]
A
And my God, in the car, he's
- [34:44]
B
wearing a cowboy hat or something like that. Andy Lobovis, I think.
- [34:47]
A
Yeah.
- [34:48]
B
So, you know, she. She had to have known that that was gonna be. I mean, the first time she did it, it was so controversial, their being protested. That was so controversial. I mean, they had to have known that people were going to, you know, have big feelings about that, which they did. And then now they're funding the me, so I don't know that she cares. And then according to my sources and. And other reporting that I've seen, Anna has wanted to do a John Galliano exhibition, which would be another really controversial one because of his past anti Semitic remarks that got him fired from Dior.
- [35:22]
A
So she really is able to Separate the art from the artist and the money from the billionaire. But it's also a bit of. You scratch. I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Do you think that Kim Kardashian's Vogue cover was, like, a turning point for that?
- [35:35]
B
That's what fans say. I mean, do I think it was a turning point? Yeah, I think it was a turning point for her, maybe more so than Vogue. I don't know how Vogue gets by without acknowledging influencer culture.
- [35:46]
A
Like, do you think we'll see Alex Earle on the carpet this year?
- [35:49]
B
Addison Rae has gone. I think people were like, oh. Like, you know, people don't want to see, you know, TikTok stars there. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how Vogue gets by as an entertainment media outlet without acknowledging influencer culture. And I think that Kim Kardashian is sort of the pinnacle of that, or has been.
- [36:06]
A
Yeah.
- [36:07]
B
You know, she was the first sort of mega influencer celebrity. But I think that what it does. I think that it's important to remember, like, let's not. Whatever it does to Vogue, you know, Vogue is a brand in decline. I like, no matter how you slice it. Um, but I think that the bigger impact is for the stars themselves, because when you go to the Met Gala, when Anna Winter's choosing you, you still get that fashion world credibility. What does that lead to? That leads to lucrative endorsement deals. It leads to more photo shoots, which could maybe lead to more lucrative endorsement deals. Maybe it leads to you starting your own fashion line. Like Kim. Kim and her sisters have done so many different brands, and she obviously has skims, which is worse. Several billion dollars now.
- [36:48]
A
And also it leads to so much content for yourself. Like, now that we own. We all own our own channels. You see everyone monetizing the Met Gala also for their own worth. Like, they might not be paid to go, and they're not paying for their outfits or their, you know, shoes or jewelry, but then they're actually going to make money also from what they're producing from it. I don't know, though, Amy. Like, I feel like maybe we are gonna get to go soon. Like, she is really loosening the reins. I mean, she used to be so anti Kard there. Then now we got even. Chloe gets to go sometimes if she wants. Like, she's really. She's much more democratic, it seems like in these. In the new age.
- [37:28]
B
Well, the Kardashians, according to one of my Mac Alice sources that I interviewed for Anna, the biography the Kardashians used to call and try to go obsessed, and they would be denied. And then one year, Anna, some would say she caved. Well, it didn't have to do with Kanye. Kim went. But Kim was with Kanye.
- [37:45]
A
Yeah. Who was big deal.
- [37:46]
B
Who was connected to Anna may still be. I don't know. Was at the time. And I think that helped grease the wheels for. For Kim to go. When Kim first went, she was pregnant. She wore that floral Givenchy dress with the gloves. Do you remember? Of course. People said she looked like a couch. That was like the meme. The next day, it was like she was like a floral, like, chintz couch. Yeah. So then she went, and then she was on the COVID of Vogue with Kanye, pegged to their wedding, so. And the same thing happened, actually, with Lauren Sanchez Bezos. She was in Vogue on the COVID of Pegged her wedding. Or she went to the Met Gala, and then she was on the COVID of Vogue, pegged her wedding.
- [38:24]
A
Meanwhile, that is proof that money cannot buy style or influence, because I remember Kim's outfits every year. Like, it's, like, burned into my mind. I could blindfold me, and I'll sketch you what she looked like at that gala. But Lauren Bezos, I have no freaking idea what that girl wore.
- [38:42]
B
I don't think she went last year, but the year before, and she wore a dress was like, a black strapless Oscar de la Renta dress with, like, shattered glass on it.
- [38:49]
A
Oh, yeah. And she was just snatched. Like, her whole thing is just being like, I can't breathe. Like, I'm so skinny.
- [38:54]
B
Yes. I guess you could use the word snatched.
- [38:56]
A
Yes.
- [38:57]
B
Like a corseted.
- [38:58]
A
Yeah, corset.
- [39:00]
B
But do you think that they should not have those people there?
- [39:03]
A
No, I think that the Kardashians have to be there. They are the most impactful. But I think that someone like Alex Earle is very interesting because she clearly sets the culture. Her brand just did a million dollars in sales in its first five minutes. Like, that's not something to ignore.
- [39:19]
B
Right.
- [39:20]
A
And she's been on a Vogue cover with her sister, but in the same way, she's not fashion in the way. And maybe, you know, maybe from their relationship with. Obviously, Kanye was a turning point for the Kardashians because he then made them so much more fashionable because he was
- [39:35]
B
already in the world.
- [39:36]
A
Yeah. 100%.
- [39:37]
B
And also wanted to be.
- [39:38]
A
And threw out all of Kim's ugly clothing and then, like, put her in this upper echelon, and now she's like, okay, everything has to be archival. And I have, you know, the Best stylist in the world. And, you know, it all matters so much more to her now. She's become really educated and I think, passionate about it in her own right. But then someone like Alex Earle, she's not high fashion. She's really just, like, she markets to the masses. And while she's. While she's gonna wear the, like, new Saint Laurent heel in the way that, like, every girl is, it's not like she's pulling out these crazy looks in the way that Kim was. And so I wonder. I really do. I think she probably will be included.
- [40:18]
B
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. I think that would make sense. And I think for her, as with Kim, it would be great for her to go because that still opens the door for her opportunities in fashion the same way that Kim having that fashion world credibility. I think that really only helps her with skims, even though skims is not a luxury price point.
- [40:36]
A
No, but with any influencer brand, you're selling the idea of the influencer. It's like if you see how stylish
- [40:43]
B
they are perceived to be in the world.
- [40:45]
A
Yeah. Like, when you see you always have to ask yourself, would you buy this without any label on it? Like a car? You know, would you. Are you buying that car because it says BMW? Or are you buying it because you actually, like, know about, like, the horsepower and like the, you know, all the different gears and all the different features? Like, most people are just buying because it's BMW. And the same thing has to do with influencer marketing.
- [41:08]
B
Yeah.
- [41:08]
A
You know, you don't actually know what's going. You don't actually know what's in scams. Does anyone actually know how much cotton is in the bra or anything? No, they're not comparing that to, like, a different bra. So I'm saying, like, it's like, most of it is pretty flammable, but, like, you're really just looking at it as a gateway to maybe feeling like Kim. Running a small business means every hire matters. I have learned this the hard way. Like, a bad hire can really cost you time and money and momentum, but then when you get that really good hire, they can. Can really help grow your business. But the issue is finding great talent takes a lot of time and resources, and you have to sift through piles of resumes to find the right fit. So that's why LinkedIn built Hiring Pro. It is your new hiring partner that screens candidates for you. So instead of sorting through applications, you will spend your time talking to candidates who are actually a good fit. When you run a small business like me, truly every second counts. And it is so important for every member of your team to be delivering at 150%. So with hiring pro, you can hire with confidence, knowing you are getting the best talent for your business. In fact, Those hiring with LinkedIn are 24% less likely to need to reopen a role within 12 months compared to the leading competitor. So join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire.
- [42:33]
B
Get.
- [42:34]
A
Get started by posting your job for free. Yeah, for free, you guys. @LinkedIn.com tea time, terms and conditions apply. Okay, can we talk about how clean beauty you can't see me, but I'm doing that in quotation marks is basically the financial equivalent of saying, like, trust me, bro. It literally means nothing. If you've ever felt like your makeup is actively working against your skin, I need you to meet OG it is a certified organic makeup, but it performs like luxury, which is rare. Usually you have to pick a struggle. Most makeup, 80 to 90% filler and pigment, but OG flipped it. Their crystal contour collection is basically skin care that happens to be makeup. And you guys, I was at Blue Mercury the other weekend and I was trying all these different makeups and OG was one of them and it was like, like I was like, oh, my God, wait, I love this brand. Like, it's like once you try it, you're going to be obsessed. It's got green coffee oil, elderberry extract, cold press, jojoba ingredients. I would normally be financially irresponsible for in Sephora, but now they're in my blush and it's so easy. It's three sticks, so copper for warmth, rose quartz for flush and opal for glow. And five minutes later, you will look like you drink water. You'll look like you mind your business. You'll look like you have zero debt. I use the copper stick and it really gave me that ice summer in Europe glow without, like, suffocating my skin. If you're ready to raise your standards financially and cosmetically, go to og.com financialtea and use code financial tea for 20% off. Overall, though, like, you've given us a lot of numbers. We know that it's gotten, like, so much more expensive. The media impact value is crazy. I. I personally do think that there is a lot of value for brands to be part of it. I know you're sort of on the outs, but. Well, I just.
- [44:27]
B
No, I just don'.
- [44:28]
A
Know.
- [44:28]
B
I really don't know because I think it's impossible to Quantify, because the numbers that I've seen are coming from companies that Khan asked invested in, or it's coming from Kanye Nast itself. And those companies have every reason to make the numbers seem really super high.
- [44:41]
A
You don't know?
- [44:42]
B
I think we just don't know what it's worth. And like, actually the people who I would trust on that issue are people who work at the brands. I would want to know how they think about it. Like how they think about what they want to get out of their marketing dollars. Is what they get out of their marketing dollars. Keeping Anna Winter in vogue, happy and on their side. Is that worth it? Is what they get out of their marketing dollars? You know, having some amazing model or celebrity look fabulous in their clothes, like, I just, I really don't know.
- [45:11]
A
And you also would, I would love to see the data of like a brand that's not known who gets to go because, you know, like, like Lewis Hamilton bought a table and brought all of these black designers. And I think that they were like lesser known. And I would love to see like, does that actually drive sales, you know, or is that just like, like how does it actually impact someone who isn't like a Gap or a Calvin Klein or someone like in the culture, if you are part of it.
- [45:37]
B
Right. And then for those brands, like if you are a Gap or an H and M, which like sometimes they have their red carpet, what are they get, you know, what are they getting out of that? And they probably have more money than a lot of brand, you know, lesser known brands, lesser known designer brands to go and make a splash. But yeah, I, so I just think it's really hard to say, but overall,
- [45:58]
A
like, where do you stand on it? Like, are you bullish on the Met Gala?
- [46:02]
B
I think the big question is what happens when Anna really steps aside.
- [46:05]
A
Yeah, like Chloe Mal, I'm sorry, she does not have the riz to pull this off, but I do think it sort of stands on its own at this point.
- [46:10]
B
Well, I don't know how much Chloe is getting trained to run the event. I, I do think that Anna is a force and has made it really, really successful and has enabled it to bring in the tens of millions that it is now bringing in. And I don't, I don't know from my reporting that Chloe is being trained to take that on and to do that. And you know, I think it's tough. I think it's a lot of politics. Keeping one celebrity happy must be a nightmare.
- [46:34]
A
Let alone so many, let alone hundreds
- [46:36]
B
or however Many people are going. So I think Anna has figured it out. She does it very effectively. This year is actually a really big deal for her, and she's not big on, like. Like, you know, talking about herself. But this year is a big deal for her because the event opens the Anna Winter Galleries in the media. And that money. Those galleries are made possible by the money that she has raised, and that's why they're named for her. So this should be, like, you know, her crowning achievement. Having planned this event since 1995, as it was described to me by sources. You know, it's sort of the metaphorical lifting of the Costume Institute out of the basement, where it has sort of historically been relegated, you know, to this new space that it has within the museum, like a really prominent physical space. So it's a big deal with Vogue.
- [47:23]
A
It basically, although it existed before Anna, it really is all predicated on her good taste. Like, it's basically a brand built around, like, this one woman's approval that we've deemed extraordinary. And I buy into it. Like, I saw her the other week at a play, and I was, like, gasping to, like, be in the same room as her.
- [47:41]
B
She looks like AI, doesn't she?
- [47:43]
A
It's just like. And she's so famous, like, when, you know, when you see people that you, like, know their image.
- [47:47]
B
Well, she gets it done every day. But her hair is so perfect and her clothes.
- [47:49]
A
Yeah, all of this exists from her image and from her point of view. And so when you talk about Vogue as a legacy brand, where she's now trying to pass it on to the next generation, it's almost like succession. Like, how realistic is that, really, that. That anyone will be able to, like, no. Uphold that when, like, there's not another person in the culture so singularly responsible for what's chic and what's not chic.
- [48:19]
B
Yeah, exactly. I think this is why it's really tough what happens to Vogue without her. I mean, she's still there. She's still overseeing it, so it's not like it's not her Vogue anymore, even though she appointed Chloe Malhev of editorial content. But, yeah, so I. I don't know. I think that the future of the Met Gala hinges on what happens after she leaves and how the succession is handled there, because we don't know.
- [48:45]
A
I almost feel like the Met Gala will survive longer than Vogue will.
- [48:48]
B
Yeah, I think so. I mean, Conde Nast, as we discussed, has a vested interest in staying involved in Vogue or whoever's running Vogue, remaining the chief planner. So, yeah, we'll see. I mean, I have been told that Anna is training Chloe in all aspects of the job, which would include planning the Met gala. But I've also heard from some Matt sources that they haven't really seen that. So I. I just don't really know.
- [49:14]
A
You know her very intimately. Like, you've literally. No one has researched her as well as she. You probably know more about her than she knows about herself. Like, I think we forget a lot about ourselves.
- [49:23]
B
Yes. So it's like we don't know. Yeah.
- [49:25]
A
Yeah. Knowing all of that, like, what would you say about her legacy?
- [49:28]
B
She wants to be remembered for her philanthropy. I think she will be remembered who she is as this sort of Miranda Priestly esque figure.
- [49:38]
A
Thank you so much. Thank you, Amy. This was so fun. You're. I could talk to you for hours. You are so brilliant.
- [51:07]
B
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A
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B
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