Finding Nancy Guthrie: Psychiatric Evaluation - Ep. 21

Summary

Podcast Summary: That's So Criminal – Episode 21: Finding Nancy Guthrie: Psychiatric Evaluation

Host: Lynden Blake (The Daily Wire)
Guest Expert: Dr. Daniel Bober, Forensic Psychiatrist
Date: March 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the emotional and psychological impact of the ongoing Nancy Guthrie kidnapping case, focusing on the public response to her daughter Savannah Guthrie's first in-depth TV interview since the abduction. Host Lynden Blake speaks with Dr. Daniel Bober, a forensic psychiatrist, to analyze Savannah’s behavior, address public criticism, and provide insight into how families navigate traumatic public crises. The discussion explores ambiguous loss, coping mechanisms, and the ethical complexities faced by highly visible victims.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Family’s Response Under Scrutiny

• Savannah Guthrie recently gave a long-form interview about her mother's kidnapping, bringing public exposure, both supportive and critical ([00:55]).
• The family's actions, interviews, and choices have been intensely analyzed by media and the public.

Forensic Psychiatry and Ambiguous Loss

• What is a Forensic Psychiatrist?
  "A forensic psychiatrist looks at the interface between mental health and the law. So things like not guilty by reason of insanity, criminal responsibility, competency to stand trial, things like that." — Dr. Daniel Bober ([02:05])
• Ambiguous Loss:
  Dr. Bober explains Savannah is experiencing "ambiguous loss," a grief that occurs without closure, contributing to ongoing distress and intrusive thoughts ([02:38], [03:22]).

Authenticity of Savannah’s Interview

• Dr. Bober characterizes Savannah’s interview as "very raw, very authentic," emphasizing the courage and vulnerability she displayed ([02:38]).
• “This was not a polished PR media interview. This was really a cry for help and to let people know how much she's suffering and how much she wants her mom back.” — Dr. Daniel Bober ([04:06])

Public Theories, Criticism, and Coping

• The family, particularly Savannah’s brother’s suggestion of a kidnap-for-ransom, has sparked conspiracy theories that Dr. Bober dismisses as unhelpful ([04:06]).
• The stressor (the unresolved kidnapping) is ongoing, making it difficult for Savannah to recover or find peace ([05:05]).

Night Terrors and Intrusive Thoughts

• Savannah's intrusive thoughts and night terrors are discussed as natural responses to trauma.
• Dr. Bober notes that, as a journalist and daughter, Savannah "oscillates between logic and emotion" ([05:05]).

Faith as a Coping Mechanism

• Savannah expressed that her faith connects her to her mother, even saying she can "hold her mom's hand through God" ([05:46]).
• Dr. Bober suggests this is a way to maintain hope, not necessarily acceptance of death ([06:00]).
  "She's connected to her mother through God and that is the conduit through which they're connected...hoping, praying that she comes home from this."

Returning to Work: Right or Wrong?

• Savannah plans to return as anchor on April 6, drawing both support and criticism ([06:34]).
• Dr. Bober explains the double-edged sword: returning provides visibility and keeps Nancy's story alive, but can be perceived as inconsistent with ongoing tragedy.
• "Her maintaining her visibility…may shake something loose. Some tip, someone saw something, no matter how small it is, and it may lead to a break in the case." ([07:01])
• Returning to routine can also be empowering and provide a sense of control and normalcy.

Navigating Uncertainty and Resilience

• Discussion on enduring uncertainty ("ambiguous loss") and the need to develop resilience.
• “It’s part of the human condition, tolerating the unknown. You have to learn to move forward and tolerate that distress and find resilience somehow.” — Dr. Daniel Bober ([08:17])

Supporting Children and Family

• Savannah emphasized providing her children certainty so they can grieve, interpreted by Dr. Bober as a need for "predictability" to restore stability ([09:03]).

The Weight of Celebrity

• Savannah’s comments that her celebrity may have contributed to her mother’s targeting are explored; Dr. Bober calls this potential guilt "agonizing" and "horrific," underscoring the unfair emotional burden ([09:58]).

Processing Guilt and Public Judgement

• The family faces criticism for both action and inaction, but Dr. Bober commends their "graceful" handling of the situation.

Morality of Criminals and Hope for Redemption

• Addressing whether "evil" can be reasoned with, Dr. Bober says, “Good and evil is really more of a religious concept…there are people who are psychopaths or antisocial…they lack empathy. For them, this is a business transaction." ([12:14])

Returning to the Spotlight

• Savannah's decision to go back to work is interpreted as an act of resilience, reclaiming her life as a form of resistance against the abductor: "You're not going to completely disrupt my entire life. It sends the message to people that life goes on." — Dr. Daniel Bober ([11:11])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ambiguous loss and hope:
  "She's waiting for her mother's safe return, but at the same time also preparing for the worst...her mind can never shut off." — Dr. Daniel Bober ([03:22])
• On coping and normalcy:
  "She can't just sit home in a ball on the couch and cry. She has to do something. She has to feel empowered." — Dr. Daniel Bober ([11:37])
• On guilt and celebrity:
  "For her to have to live with that guilt is just agonizing. Knowing that she herself may have played a role in it, even though obviously it's not her fault." — Dr. Daniel Bober ([09:58])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Savannah Guthrie's Interview & Reaction: [02:23] – [04:06]
• Ambiguous Loss & Psychological State: [02:38] – [03:22]
• Public Criticism & Conspiracy Theories: [04:06] – [04:37]
• Night Terrors & Coping: [05:05] – [05:39]
• Faith and Its Role: [05:46] – [06:34]
• Returning to Work: [06:34] – [08:17]
• Resilience & Children’s Needs: [08:17] – [09:30]
• Guilt of Celebrity: [09:58] – [10:38]
• Moral Complexity of Kidnappers: [12:03] – [12:52]
• Final Thoughts & Continuing Search: [13:21] – [13:59]

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Conclusion

This episode offers a compelling psychological perspective on the Guthrie case, grounding abstract public scrutiny in human experience. Dr. Daniel Bober provides empathetic, nuanced analysis of Savannah Guthrie’s responses—emphasizing authenticity, the struggle of ambiguous loss, the importance of normalcy and resilience, and the cruel burden of public judgment. For listeners, it’s a reminder of the mental and emotional complexities at play for public families in crisis, and the vital role of community understanding during unresolved tragedy.

Transcript

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[Unidentified Family Member]

I will not let whoever did this take my children's mother from them.

[Lyndon Blake]

Savannah Guthrie announces her return to the anchor desk at the Today show. But is it too soon? And we talk with a forensic psychiatrist who analyzes Savannah's response to the kidnapping of her 84 year old mother.

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

Just that again, I think it came off very genuine. It didn't come off scripted.

[Lyndon Blake]

Is a criticism of the family justified? I'm Lyndon Blake and this is finding Nancy Guthrie. A special investigation on that's so criminal. Over the last several days, everyone has gotten to hear directly from Savannah Guthrie in a long form sit down interview for the first time since her mother's kidnapping. And with that exposure with her talking about new details, talking about how this affected her family, it has come with grace and also criticism. And people are leaning on everything Savannah says as the country tries to find out who took 84 year old Nancy Guthrie. Well, I thought it was important to bring in a psychiatrist who does this for a living. He analyzes, he helps people get through these horrific parts of their life. And Dr. Daniel Bober is a forensic

[Podcast Host]

psychiatrist, to be specific.

[Lyndon Blake]

So he is an expert in this field. And I'm so thankful that he got to sit down with us and give his thoughts on how the family is

[Podcast Host]

handling all of this. Dr. Daniel Bober, a psychiatrist, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast to discuss the latest in the Nancy Guthrie investigation. What does a forensic psychiatrist do?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

A forensic psychiatrist looks at the interface between mental health and the law. So things like not guilty by reason of insanity, criminal responsibility, competency to stand trial, things like that.

[Lyndon Blake]

Last week we were given some special

[Podcast Host]

insight, I guess you would say, from

[Lyndon Blake]

Savannah Guthrie herself into how this has all been for the family.

[Podcast Host]

And it was a two part long form interview with Hoda Kapi airing on the Today Show. I want to first get your overall thoughts on what you saw from the interview with Savannah.

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

Well, to me it was very Raw, very authentic. It was really showing how much ambiguity she's in right now. Right. There's so much ambiguity in this case. There's this thing that we call ambiguous loss, which is a type of grief that occurs when there is no closure and there's no clear outcome. And then there's the forensic ambiguity because we don't know what's going on in the case. So she's sort of in this in between stage where her mind can never shut off and she has all these intrusive thoughts that she spoke about. She's showing a lot of signs of what I would call acute stress that I've seen in a lot of patients. Now, of course, I've never examined her, so I can't diagnose her, but that's what it looks like to me when

[Podcast Host]

she's answering some of these questions, she's giving off details. Her words may not be coming out as perfectly as people on the Internet looking into this case may think, but what I took away from the interview was kind of the same things you did. I thought it was very authentic. I thought it was very brave of her. I feel like she knows the impact that she has in this country, and I think that she knows that they need to keep her mom in the headlines and keep everyone thinking about Nancy Guthrie and thinking about the person that was on the front doorstep to bring her home. A lot of people were saying that they found it odd that her brother, who has a background in intelligence and in the military, said from the start that he thought it was a kidnap for ransom. Did that stick out to you as something that was odd?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

No, because I think a lot of people sitting at home probably thought the same thing. And now there's all these conspiracy theories that are floating out there, which are very unhelpful and probably only make her feel worse. There's this cognitive dissonance that's going on right now where, you know, she's waiting for her mother's safe return, but at the same time also preparing for the worst. So I think she's in a very difficult place right now. And this was not a polished PR media interview. This was really a cry for help and to let people know how much she's suffering and how much she wants her mom back.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And when she mentioned those intrusive thoughts, I mean, I can't imagine. I know you've dealt with a lot of people having to go through their trauma when something like this happens to someone, to Savannah, her siblings, and you have an image of. Of the person that is responsible. Terrifying image on paper. How does someone work through this? How long could these night terrors persist for Savannah?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

Well, the problem is, is that the stressor is just not going any time. The stressor is not going away anytime in the foreseeable future. Right. She's sort of oscillating between logic and emotion being a journalist, but then also being a daughter. So for her, she's in a very difficult place. And until the stressor is gone, it's going to be hard for her to recover from this. And she's using her FAI as a coping mechanism, which I think is very healthy for her. And it helps provide some structure, some sort of understanding as to why this can happen to her and how she makes sense of the universe right now. But it's something that she wakes up with every morning and goes to sleep with every night.

[Podcast Host]

On Friday, she said that she is able to hold her mom's hand through

[Lyndon Blake]

God, basically saying that her faith in

[Podcast Host]

God is now what's connecting her to her mother. Do you think that means she is assuming that her mom is dead, her mom is in heaven?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

I think that's one way to interpret it. But another way to interpret it is that she's connected to her mother through God and that is the conduit through which they're connected. And she's sending that positive energy through that conduit to her mother, hoping, praying that she comes home from this. But I think a lot of people in the world feel that as time goes by that the chances are dimming for her safe return. Remember, we're talking about a woman who's older, who has health problems, and we all want to hold onto faith, but we don't want to reject reality at the same time.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And she's gonna make her return to the Today Show April 6th. And like with anything, there are gonna be people that are supporting her. There are gonna be people saying, how could you do this when your mom, if Nancy is still missing and there's not closure at that time, Go back to your normal life. What is your take on people going back to their routine even in the midst of a traumatic and tragic situation?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

I think it can be helpful. But, you know, it's a double edged sword. Right. The Today show is this sort of happy, airy, evergreen show where they talk about lighthearted topics and this is anything but a lighthearted topic. But on the other hand, you know, it keeps her visibility out there in the real world and people see her and she can continue to give updates about her mom, which keeps it in the public consciousness. And who knows? It may shake something loose. Some tip, someone saw something, no matter how small it is, and it may lead to a break in the case. So I think her maintaining her visibility, there's a real practical reason to do that. But I can see how some people would say, you know, how can you, you know, be on your show talking about Tupperware when your mom's gone missing? It's got to be, you know, how can you compartmentalize like that? I don't think a lot of people could do that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, but there's so many cases, and Savannah has made it known of missing people in the country that go on for decades or never get solved. And I think she's done a good job of showing that empathy to other people going through this. At what point do people. And I guess how do they navigate that? When you have to come to a conclusion that you may not get closure, but you have to move forward, that has to be something that's very hard to balance.

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

Well, I think it's a very human thing. Right. It's really part of the human condition, tolerating uncertainty, tolerating the unknown. You know, you get a cancer diagnosis, and you don't know if you're going to survive. Your kids get into an accident, you lose your job. You know, there are so many things in life that generate so much uncertainty and the unknown, and you just don't know what's going to happen. You have to learn to move forward and tolerate that distress and find resilience somehow, because if you don't, then you're just wasting the time that you have.

[Podcast Host]

She said this in her interview to Hoda. She said that she's giving her kids more certainty so they can grieve properly. What does that mean?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

So there's a loss there, right? We don't know if it's a permanent loss. We don't know if it's a temporary loss. But I'm also a child and adolescent psychiatrist, and so I can tell you that when it comes to children who are going through something like this, you know, you want predictability because predictability promotes stability. And that's what kids need right now. They need reassurance, they need to feel safe, because something like this can really shatter their sense of safety and undermine their place in the world. So you need to give them that feeling of security.

[Podcast Host]

And, you know, it's not just her kids. She has a nephew and she has siblings, and the family has been intensely scrutinized. Just about how they're handling it. Are they saying to too much? Are they saying too little? Are they not out enough rallying the community? What is your take on the last 50 plus days on how the Guthrie family has navigated this horrible situation?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

I mean, I think they've handled it very gracefully. I was particularly struck by her comments about the fact that her celebrity may have led to this. That she, you know, be by virtue of who she is, her mother may have been targeted. And I think for her to have to live with that guilt is just agonizing. Knowing that she herself may have played a role in it, even though obviously it's not her fault, but that if there is an abductor who kidnapped her mother, thinking, well, this is some high powered celebrity, they're going to be able to cough up all this money, thinking that she in some way led to the conclusion for them that this was a target for them to take. I think that's horrific.

[Podcast Host]

And I think that goes even more to the point about the strength she's showing by going back to work, knowing that it is a thought and not just her head, but it is a thought in her family unit that it could be because of who Savannah is. But she is not. She said it over and over again like, she's not gonna have her joy be taken by this situation, by this person that wanted to cause so much pain to the family. And I think to me, her going back to work is saying, like, no, like, you're going to win here. What you're saying.

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

You're not going to completely disrupt my entire life. It sends the message to people that life goes on. You know, it doesn't mean I've forgotten about my mom. It doesn't mean I care any less. It doesn't mean I think about her any less. But I'm going to go back to my life and you're not going to shake the foundation of who I am by doing this to my mother.

[Podcast Host]

With her coming back April 6th, did you find that it was the right time? How do you think she came to that decision, that now is when she needs to return?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

I think it was something that was completely organic and felt right to her. You know, she can't just sit home in a ball on the couch and cry. She has to do something. She has to feel empowered. She has to do something to defeat the hopelessness. And the way to do that is to get back in front of the public, put all that positive energy that she was putting out before and feel like she can accomplish something. And have some sense of empowerment.

[Lyndon Blake]

When the family was at the beginning

[Podcast Host]

trying to reach out to the person behind the ransom notes that Savannah said she believes are real. Do you think evil people can be talked into doing the right thing?

[Dr. Daniel Bober]

As a forensic psychiatrist, good and evil is really more of a religious concept. But there are some people out there who are what we call psychopaths or antisocial. These are people that manipulate other people. They have no remorse. They lie, they cheat, they steal. They. They lack empathy. They put their own needs before they put your needs. So this might be what we're dealing with. This might just be someone who, for them, in their mind, this is a business transaction. They have a famous person's mother. They want money, and that's all they care about. And they have no regard for how they're affecting her or the people in her family.

[Podcast Host]

Another big thank you to Dr. Bober.

[Lyndon Blake]

I thought he gave excellent insight on how the family is processing this information and grieving while still trying to make a stable for their kids and their families. And I've always just thought, man, I

[Podcast Host]

mean, Savannah, when she goes back to

[Lyndon Blake]

work, if this is all still going

[Podcast Host]

on, she's of course gonna be met

[Lyndon Blake]

with criticism of being like, how could you just wake up in the morning and go anchor a newscast when this is unsolved?

[Podcast Host]

But Dr. Bober, again, just gave insight

[Lyndon Blake]

to how victims of cases like this

[Podcast Host]

have to decide to continue on with their life. It's. It's absolutely wild that it's March 30,

[Lyndon Blake]

day 58 of Nancy's disappearance.

[Podcast Host]

And it's a case that we're still looking into, interested in, and of course, wanting to solve. So I'll leave you with the FBI number one, 800, call FBI. Still over a million dollars up for reward if someone can lead investigators to Nancy Guthrie.

[Lyndon Blake]

I'm Lyndon Blake, and this is finding

[Podcast Host]

Nancy, A special investigation on that's so criminal.

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