Talking with the True Crime Queen Nancy Grace

Summary

That's So Criminal – Talking with the True Crime Queen Nancy Grace

Podcast: That's So Criminal
Host: Lyndon Blake (The Daily Wire)
Guest: Nancy Grace
Date: April 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, investigative reporter and host Lyndon Blake sits down with renowned true crime commentator and former prosecutor Nancy Grace. The conversation traverses headline cases, Nancy's deeply personal connection to justice, her own experience with violent crime, and her advice for parents and crime survivors. The focus is on the ongoing abduction case of 84-year-old Nancy Guthrie, the complexities of kidnapping investigations, the realities of emotional resilience in crime-fighting, and Grace's perspective on infamous cases like Casey Anthony's. The discussion is candid, at times intense, but always underscores Nancy Grace’s passion for advocacy and justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nancy Guthrie Abduction and Unique Aspects of the Case

[02:24 – 06:22]

• Ransom Notes and Scams:
  Callers have contacted the family and media, demanding Bitcoin to share Guthrie’s whereabouts.
  • Nancy Grace: “I think it takes a devil straight from hell to be capitalizing on and trying to make money off an 84 year old grandma who may or may not be dead. And to me, that's just like a vulture or a hyena.” [03:01]
  • She finds the delayed and atypical nature of the ransom notes suspicious, especially as they lacked proof of life.
• Speculation About Perpetrator(s):
  Nancy theorizes that more than one individual may be involved, given the disparity in articulation between ransom notes and the actions of the “bumbling porch guy.” [03:57]
  • Potential use of AI in composing ransom notes is mentioned.
• Why the Reward Isn’t Claimed:
  Nancy questions the credibility of those demanding Bitcoin instead of claiming the $1.2M+ reward. If they genuinely knew Guthrie’s location, they would go through official channels.

2. Law Enforcement Response and Cold Case Myths

[06:22 – 12:00]

• FBI Belief in the Ransom Note Sender:
  Host and Nancy reference reports that the FBI believes the author of two initial ransom notes could be the actual kidnapper.
  • The analysis of blockchain and Bitcoin payment techniques has yet to yield leads, but behind-the-scenes efforts persist.
• Is the Case Cold?:
  Nancy forcefully rejects the idea that the case is cold, emphasizing the enormous ongoing effort and the complexity of major investigations.
  • Nancy Grace: “Just because some... A hole out of nowhere... says it’s cold does not mean it's cold. I guarantee you that the FBI has teams of people on this case right now... This is not an episode of Law & Order.” [09:20]
  • Nancy contrasts public impatience with the reality of methodical investigation.

3. Investigative Failures and Evidence Loss

[12:00 – 16:04]

• Critique of Local Police Handling:
  Nancy calls out Pima County Sheriff Nanos for not immediately treating the scene as an abduction, resulting in destroyed or lost evidence.
  • Lack of advanced forensic techniques at the local level compared to federal resources.
  • Delay in allowing the FBI access allowed suspects to solidify their alibis or dispose of evidence.
  • Nancy Grace: “They didn’t even get the welcome mat, which was probably covered in her blood. ...Ordering a pizza on the crime scene. Ridiculous.” [14:02]
• Modern Forensic Tools Missed:
  Discusses technology like the MVAC for collecting microscopic DNA and static lifts for shoeprints—processes likely skipped or botched in this case.

4. The Personal Toll: Coping as a Crime Victim and a Public Figure

[16:04 – 21:15]

• Compartmentalization and Grief:
  Nancy shares her strategies for separating personal pain from professional duty—she cites compartmentalization as a survival mechanism honed after her fiancé Keith’s murder.
  • Nancy Grace: “I don’t think I’ve ever told anybody in the media this before. It got to where every time I would think about Keith, I would get almost immediately a horrible, horrible headache...I just immediately stop thinking about him because I couldn’t go on.” [18:55–19:04]
• Supporting Children Through Family Trauma:
  Nancy relates to Savannah Guthrie’s daughter coping with her mother’s disappearance—emphasizing the need for mothers to project strength and shield their children from despair.

5. The Casey Anthony Case & Advocacy for Victims

[21:38 – 24:15]

• Nancy's Motivation:
  Her desire to center the victim, Caylee Anthony, rather than focus on the media circus surrounding Casey Anthony.
  • Nancy Grace: “I wanted to be the voice of Kelly [Caylee Anthony]. There was a huge miscarriage of justice… George and Cindy [Anthony’s grandparents] have been dragged through the mud by top mom Casey Anthony...” [22:54–23:17]

6. Nancy's Journey: From Prosecutor to Crime Advocate on Television

[24:15 – 27:31]

• Turning Tragedy into Purpose:
  After Keith’s murder, Nancy switched paths from teaching to law, ultimately choosing prosecution over civil or defense law. The abrupt career turn from prosecutor to TV commentator occurred when, as she puts it, “Mr. Slayton [the district attorney] retired… One week to the day… I flew to Court TV up to New York and started Court TV with Johnnie Cochran. And that's how it happened. It was a complete fluke.” [27:21–27:31]

7. Empowering Parents and the Public: Safety Advice

[28:04 – 31:27]

• Lessons from ‘Don’t Be a Victim’:
  Nancy’s advice is direct: “Ever vigilant, ever vigilant. And to persevere. Don't stop. Even when you're tired, don't stop. Your child's life could depend on it. ... It's a tough, tough way to see the world. But it's true. I know it's true because it happened to me.” [30:13–31:27]
• Predators Are Not Stereotypes:
  Most danger comes from those close to us, not “the stereotypical freak in a trench coat.” [30:00]

8. The Lasting Impact of Violent Crime

[31:27 – 33:45]

• When Offenders Are Released:
  Nancy recalls finding out about Keith’s killer’s release from a viewer, not authorities, and the profound sense of emptiness and betrayal.
  • “I remember just feeling empty, just empty and let down. And I just shut my door and sat there and watched traffic go by.” [31:40]
• Irreparable Loss and Survivor Strength:
  She admires Elizabeth Smart for her resilience, but reminds listeners: “That's the thing about violent crime. You can never replace what was taken.” [33:20–33:45]

9. On Unwinding and Family Life

[34:04 – 35:52]

• Daily Routines for Joy:
  Nancy finds happiness in daily walks/jogs, family meals, and cooking. Her favorite moments are dinner conversations with her children.
  • “My favorite thing in the world is sitting down at the end of the day with the children and hopefully my husband... and hearing about their day.” [34:54]
  • The day is organized around her family's schedule, ensuring she’s present when they’re home.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It takes a devil straight from hell to be capitalizing on and trying to make money off an 84-year-old grandma...a vulture or a hyena.” – Nancy Grace [03:01]
• “Just because some... A hole out of nowhere... says it’s cold does not mean it's cold.” – Nancy Grace [09:20]
• “The scene was destroyed because... you can never put it back together again. The scene was destroyed because you were saying there’s technology out there that you can pick up evidence that the naked eye can’t see.” – Nancy Grace [14:33]
• “Whenever I would think about him [her fiancé Keith], I would get almost immediately a horrible, horrible headache...I just immediately stop thinking about him because I couldn’t go on.” – Nancy Grace [18:55–19:04]
• “You can never replace what was taken.” – Nancy Grace [33:45]
• “Ever vigilant, ever vigilant. And to persevere. Don't stop. Even when you're tired, don't stop. Your child's life could depend on it.” – Nancy Grace [30:13]
• “My favorite thing in the world is sitting down at the end of the day with the children and...hearing about their day.” – Nancy Grace [34:54]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:24 – 06:22]: The Guthrie ransom notes and atypical elements of the case
• [06:22 – 12:00]: FBI, cold case debate, law enforcement methods
• [12:00 – 16:04]: Forensic errors and evidence loss
• [16:04 – 21:15]: Coping as a victim; supporting children through trauma
• [21:38 – 24:15]: Casey Anthony case and focus on victims
• [24:15 – 27:31]: Nancy’s career—transition from law to TV
• [28:04 – 31:27]: Safety advice from “Don’t Be a Victim”
• [31:27 – 33:45]: The lasting impact of violent crime
• [34:04 – 35:52]: Nancy’s daily life and family routines

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Tone & Language

This episode blends the tenacious, unfiltered style Nancy Grace is known for with moments of deep empathy, personal revelation, and passionate calls to vigilance and justice. Both host and guest communicate directly, with conviction and heart, relating complex crime stories to deeply personal experiences and actionable advice.

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For listeners new to Nancy Grace or this case, this episode is a masterclass in the reality of investigative work, personal resilience, the impact of violent crime, and unwavering advocacy for victims.

Transcript

[Lyndon Blake]

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[Nancy Grace]

That's so criminal.

[Caller/Listener]

We got another letter today from this person, an email saying I know where her body is and who the kidnapper is. Give us, give me half a bitcoin and I'll tell you. And this person has been really persistent.

[Interviewer/Host]

These new notes that Harvey got yesterday that he said he believes there's some type of truth to them that said Nancy was dead they still know where the kidnappers are. They were, you know, Nancy was spotted and Mexico. What is your take about these new notes that TMZ has received?

[Nancy Grace]

Number one, I think it takes a devil straight from hell to be capitalizing on and trying to make money off an 84 year old grandma who may or may not be dead. And to me, that's just like a vulture or a hyena.

You ever seen a hyena? They're horrible.

I mean, they make this creepy high pitched laugh and they smell horrible because they have been eating dead flesh. They're disgusting. And that is what this ransomware is. Okay? Now does he know he, she know anything? And I guarantee you it's a man.

It's a man. This is a.

This is a stereotypical man thing. Okay? Now the man may not have had the sense to write, write it all on his own. He may have had a woman help him or even use chat, GPT, something like that. AI of some sort. Because I noticed the dichotomy between the bumbling porch guy tried to put plants over a door cam and apparent. The apparent articulate nature of the ransom note. And I find that to be a stark contrast. So it made me think that either A, it wasn't the same person, that they were not connected or baby, there's obviously more than one person involved. Someone that can speak and write or has a sense to use AI or and then the other one who's a bumbling idiot with grass in his hands. So I really think that this was. Many people thought this wasn't a ransom because it's very atypical. Usually immediately after the person is kidnapped, the ransom note is sent because they want the money. They don't want to take care of

an 84 year old woman and cart her around.

They want the money and be done with it. But I think one likely scenario is that Ms. Guthrie passed away before they could see him. Proof of life or many other reasons they could not send proof of life. Therefore, you've got A, they did not send the ransom note quickly and B, they never offer proof of life. And C, they went through Harvey Levin at tmz, who is a friend. Friend.

Think a lot of Harvey.

All of those are atypical for ransoms. So many people discounted that. I did not because I think this is clearly a kidnap for ransom that somehow fell through. It didn't work. I think the last two are bids for money by hyena. Is it real? If it is real, why don't they just accept the 1.2 plus million dollar reward for information leading to Ms. Guthrie's whereabouts. Why do they want a half of bitcoin now and another half later?

It's ridiculous.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, it's weird.

[Nancy Grace]

So I'm not convinced that they really know where Mrs. Guthrie is.

[Interviewer/Host]

So another Harvey Levin bombshell. Since, you know, he is a main character at this point in this situation. Because of the ransom notes he said the FBI said. Sender of deadline ransom notes. Those first two, they believe is the kidnapper. We know that. Savannah told Hoda she believes that was true as well. What is it going to take? If that is the case and the FBI thinks that Cinder is the guy,

[Lyndon Blake]

how do they figure it out? Because Harvey was saying they've come, they've tried, they've gone through the it. And they cannot figure out who that

[Nancy Grace]

person is ever since. Well, at the beginning, I thought there was about a 40, 60 chance. 40 being it was the kidnapper. 60 being it was not the kidnapper. I thought there was a good chance the deadlines were the kidnapper. Then Savannah confirmed that when she said she believed it. Now, why would Savannah believe it? Savannah is very smart. I worked with her at Court tv. She's not just a pretty face. She's genuine. She's real. What you see on TV is how she really is very kind and gracious. But she's also a trained lawyer. So for her to come out and say she thought the two ransom notes were real tells me that the FBI. That Harvey Levin is correct, the FBI does think they're real. Because I'm sure Savannah consulted with them and is convinced that they are real. Now, I don't think that bodes well for Ms. Guthrie or they would have sent proof of life. Doesn't mean. Does not mean she's passed away. All right? But it does not bode well. How do they find them? I think that so far, their analysis, the blockchain analysis that is used to track bitcoin, has not worked. Everything they've done so far has not worked. That we know of. For all I know, they may be on his trail. I mean, why would they tell me or Harvey Levin one way or the other? I don't know that they would. Because any tip off could. It could ruin it, ruin the whole thing. If they are, in fact, close, it could be ruined by someone leaking.

They're close.

[Interviewer/Host]

And repeat, cinder ransom. You know, got angry yesterday, called the case cold. Was offended that no one has paid him the half a bitcoin. You have been very strong in your beliefs. And I Love when you get on Sean Hannity about how this case is not cold, do you still feel that way on day 66?

[Nancy Grace]

Hold on just a moment. Just because some. A hole out of nowhere that floats down out of the ether says it's cold does not mean it's cold. I guarantee you that the FBI has teams of people on this case right now. They had over 10,000 images to go through. You want to tell me they're not scouring every single traffic cam, every LPN, license plate, lpg, license plate grabber out there? They are on. Takes time, I know from working my cases. Sometimes simple, sometimes complex. It's very hard to work a complex case. I remember sitting in the floor of the DA's office looking at stacks. I mean, 30 stacks of papers surrounding me, each one representing one topic or the next, a similar transaction. My scientific evidence, my fiber evidence, my blood evidence. It could be my witness statements, my legal briefs all around me and thinking, what in the world? Where do I even start? I know how they feel, and they have so much more volume to wade through, frankly. I know a lot of people not familiar with trying cases, preparing cases, putting together complex cases think, oh, it's cold because we haven't heard anything. This is not an episode of Law, Law and Order. It's not easy, and sometimes it takes time. And that's what's happening now. This is by far not a cold case. I only pray it's in time to save Mrs. Guthrie's life. Realistically, I do not hold out much hope. But I do hold out hope from your people calling this a cold case are people that are not familiar with the criminal justice system, that have never put together or investigated a case, that are on the outside looking in. And I don't expect them to know. And I'm glad they don't know. Which means their lives have never been touched by violent crime. I'm happy for them. But for those of us that have put together cases like this, that have beat the street, that have argued the appellate motions, that have argued before a judge about suppression and so many other legal issues, I want them to know this case is not cold. I know I'm a voice in the wilderness compared to all the talking heads, but I'm telling you, the case is not cold. If it were cold, I would say it's cold. Calm down. It's going to take a while, but it is not cold. That's why I'm doing it every single night.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes, you're doing a great job on crime stories and your personal Opinion. I know you've expressed frustration with Nanos and how Pima county has handled this. What do you think, though, as we look at this case as a whole, in month three is the most frustrating part about the case of Nancy Guthrie.

[Nancy Grace]

That's hard to pick. There's so many things. I think from my vantage, it would be that the scene was destroyed by Nano's team at his direction. At the beginning, we lost a lot of evidence because of mishandling the scene. And I do not blame the men and women on the ground. It's like this.

Okay, let me think of a good example.

No, because I wouldn't want that city to feel bad when you have a small, smaller city, even the side size of Tucson, which is not small compared

to where I grew up in Macon, Georgia.

But they are not equipped with high level forensic capability the way that the Feds are. I mean, even nypd, Chicago, Louisiana, Atlanta, they do not have the resources the feds have. That is the federal government, the single most powerful government in the world. So their capabilities by far outshine those of a local law enforcement. And the time that was lost while Nano's had his turf battle about whether to allow the feds in or not cost a lot. Every hour that passed, they got further away with Nancy Guthrie. Every hour that passed, their cover got better. Every hour that passed, witnesses, memories fade, witnesses disappeared. So so much evidence was lost. I mean, you've seen the front porch a million times. They didn't even get the welcome mat,

which was probably covered in her blood.

I mean, it just ordering a pizza on the crime scene.

Ridiculous.

Ridiculous. They lost time and they lost evidence. I'm sure no one thought to, for instance, lift electrostatic prints through like an MRI through magnetic residents. It just. So many things could have been done, but once it's destroyed, it's like Humpty Dumpty. You can never put it back together again. The scene was destroyed because you were

[Interviewer/Host]

saying there's technology out there that you can pick up evidence that the naked eye can't see.

[Nancy Grace]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer/Host]

How does that work?

[Nancy Grace]

Well, there's so many different things. Like I was just referring to static lifts and which is done through magnetic technology, which actually, how do I say it almost fluoresces. I mean, you can see the dust

from a shoe print.

It's not like making a cast out of a mud print or a snow print. It's completely different. But once someone walks over it, it's destroyed. There is the M vac, which is used to get microscopic DNA fiber off of various porous substances, porous surfaces such

as carpet or a bedspread, which I'm

sure was not used by the local authorities. All sorts of high, highly intricate DNA, mixed DNA, degraded DNA, microscopic DNA, all of that. I'm sure it was either not obtained or destroyed when the first local law enforcement went in. And also the scene was snake bit from the get go because the local law enforcement, over the objections, the family, treated it as a wander off that she had just wandered off. And that was, that was the kiss of death. That was the death knell because it was not treated as a kidnap immediately.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, Savannah returned Monday to the Today show and I watched it all. And you know her personally and I was so impressed at how she navigated the news, especially because she had to interview a military analyst about the missing airman that was rescued over the weekend. And you know better than anybody how you have to put on that professional front and that has to hit so close to home because her mother's missing and now they're talking about this miraculous rescue for this U.S. airman. She's doing a wonderful job handling the interview. But can you from personal experience describe how hard that is when you're talking about a subject that is your real life right now?

[Nancy Grace]

It's really, it's really hard. There were many times I would be working in court.

I remember one specific time when it

was a case of a three year old little girl that had been beaten into a coma. And then in the middle of trial I, in the middle of trial I learned something that was not contained in the medical documents.

I learned that she, the little three

year old girl, had been sex molested.

I didn't know that going into it. So on top of being beaten into

a coma, never ever to come out, the rest of her short life was as a vegetable

to have that happen to her as well.

I remember it was pouring rain. I left the courthouse, I had to pull over on the side of the road. I remember where I was too. I was on MLK Drive on the other side of the courthouse. I had to pull over in the rain and just cried.

But in court I couldn't do that,

couldn't do that or take my focus off that, proving the case, which I did, by the way. It's really hard because I'm sure Savannah at some point thought why him and not my mom? Not that she would ever wish for the our military servicemen not to be found. Not that, but why not her mom? We could find him in the caves, in the jungles, but not my mom. I know it had to hurt her. But knowing Savannah, she didn't let herself think about it during that interview. Maybe later, she fell apart. But not on air. She's just a pro. She wouldn't. And I think it's due to compartmentalization. And I learned that trying cases. I learned it, actually, after my fiance was murdered and I finally went back to school. Whenever I would think about him. I don't think I've ever told anybody in the media this before.

It got to where every time I

would think about Keith, I would get almost immediately a horrible, horrible headache.

It had to be psychosomatic because, I

mean, there was nothing physical that would have done that. But I almost. Well, I did not almost. I got to where I would just immediately stop thinking about him because I couldn't go on. And if I did think about him, it would just. I would just slide back into a horrible depression I couldn't get out of.

So that compartmentalization

really helped me try my cases as well, because if I stopped to think about it, if I let myself really think about it, I couldn't go forward.

[Interviewer/Host]

And a lot of people know that your fiance was murdered. And recently you said it wasn't until you had the twins you felt that happiness again. And I can think about Savannah telling Hoda she has to be strong for her kids. Her kids can't lose their mom because of what's happening to Nancy Guthrie. Can you explain as a mother how you have to put on that strong front because you've done it, and now Savannah's having to do it for her kids.

[Nancy Grace]

Oh, gosh.

Well, I consider my number one duty is to try. Try to be a Christian.

And from that flows my number two duty, and that is to my. My son and daughter. For me, that's my world. And I do not want them to have a sad mother that cannot focus on them. No, I want them to have all my attention and all my love,

[Interviewer/Host]

you

[Nancy Grace]

know, their whole lives. So I have to control everything else, to control all the other emotions and not let that come into bearing for their.

For their good.

And I imagine. I mean, I'm projecting. I imagine that Savannah feels the same way. She may cry when she's alone, but I doubt that she does in front of her children. I'm sure she puts up a brave front. You know, that's just my understanding of what I know of Savannah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it's hard, but I know. I mean, you guys are just incredible. I want to pivot now to your career, which is goals to me. You've made such an impact on so many families. I got into journalism to help people and to do the work and to share stories and to make the world a better place. And you got into prosecuting and all of this to make the world a better place, to be a voice for victims. And the case that just took over my life was the Casey Anthony case. And you covered that better than anyone on the planet. What stood out to you about that, where you were so convicted, to give that case your attention 24 7?

[Nancy Grace]

Well, I felt that the grandparents, Cindy and George, were under siege.

They were being followed and hounded every single day.

And I felt like someone needed to be the voice of the voice for Kelly because all the focus was on Top nine. Casey Anthony and Kelly seemed to be

just like a peripheral player.

And I didn't like that. And I wanted to be the voice of Kelly. There was a huge miscarriage of justice. People do a lot of finger pointing about why it happened.

I have my own theories, but it happened. And George and Cindy have been dragged

through the mud by top mom Casey Anthony, and it has been a horrible, horrible ordeal for them.

[Interviewer/Host]

I can't believe it was in 2011 because it still seems like yesterday to me. It's just incredible what a landmark trial that was in case in general and how you can still think about the evidence, the chloroform. It's just. It was just very bizarre.

[Nancy Grace]

But you've just horrible, horrible, horrible.

[Interviewer/Host]

And that was just like one of the many cases that you cover and you're still covering. And I mean, this is a grueling job to be in prosecution and then to go into covering crime stories, the horrible stories, people's tragedy. How do you do it every day? Where do you get the strength from to continue going and to hear people's worst moments and to try to bring them justice.

[Nancy Grace]

When I started, well, after Keith is murder, I didn't know what I was going to do. I dropped out of school. I knew I didn't want. Didn't want to be in a classroom and teach Shakespearean literature. And then I was with my sister. She was a professor at the Wharton School at that time in Philadelphia. And I saw the students all going back in. In out of the bookstore. They were coming back to school. And I had the idea to go back to school, to law school. And I did. I had to finish undergrad and then go on.

That was hard.

It was really hard. Just getting through, just each day was a struggle. As far as prosecuting. That was all I ever wanted. To do. And I had two jobs in the law before I became a felony prosecutor. I was a law clerk to a federal judge. And then I worked in antitrust and consumer protection at the Federal Trade Commission. And I loved it.

But I always, always wanted, I never

lost sight of wanting to prosecute violent crime. I finally made it into inner city Atlanta to prosecute. And when I tried my first case, I felt like a bird out of a cage. I remember that moment. I was walking along the sidewalk. I couldn't afford the parking deck close to the courthouse.

I had to walk like half a mile dragging on my stuff.

But I remember I felt like I could just take off and start flying. I knew that's what I was supposed to be doing. And then after 10 years having been named not the first, but one of the first female special prosecutors in inner city Atlanta, my elected district attorney, Mr. Slayton, was like a grandfather to me.

Decided to retire.

Longest serving DA in the country at that time. I think it was 32 or 37 years. Well, I didn't know what I was going to do, but I had sat on a panel of so called experts

in New York at the Great hall of Justice.

And I sat between fortuitously, Johnnie Cochran right off Simpson and Roy Black right off the William Kennedy Smith debacle.

And I didn't know any of those people.

There were like 300 people there.

I didn't care.

I tore everybody in newer end, told them what I thought, why they were representing horrible, horrible people that were in fact guilty. And I left.

And that night they said, hey, would

you do he say she say Cochran and Grace? I'm like, no, I have no interest

in being on tv and I have a serial rape case.

I got to go home and get ready to start next week. I don't know why I'm even here. So I left.

Okay, well, that's when Mr. Slayton, now she's going to retire. I'm like, oh, my stars.

I'm certainly not going to be a defense lawyer.

I don't want to chase ambulances.

I don't want to do billable hours.

I called them back and went, hey, I'll do it.

So one week to the day, Mr. Slayton left office. I flew to Court TV, up to New York and started Court TV with Johnnie Cochran.

And that's how it happened.

It was a complete fluke.

[Interviewer/Host]

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[Interviewer/Host]

That is in gospel. And then you've just been on the airwaves ever since. And this is more of like a parenting question, but I want, I mean like of course I'm gonna go to Nancy Grace for this. You wrote the book don't be a Victim and it's just full of good advice. And what's the main takeaway? You want someone like to read your book and go on in life and always remember from it?

[Nancy Grace]

Well, there's a lot of great parents out there. They don't realize the kind of world we live in. I mean, I grew up in a very idyllic childhood. I we were poor, but we didn't know it. Everybody else was in the same boat,

but it was a place where there

was nothing but soybean fields and pine trees as far as I could see. We could ride our bikes after school until we heard the hymns in the Methodist church playing God will take care of you and his eyes on the sparrow for real. And we knew it was time to come home. And I knew nothing about violent crime. And I learned about it the hard way. And it was a real shock. Most people only see it on TV or in a movie or a TV program. And it doesn't seem real the way it didn't seem real to me until it happened to me. So there's no reason that people should be in fear or hyper, hyper sensitive to what's going on around them. And that's very hard to explain, that there are predators out there that look just like you and me. They're not the stereotypical freak in a

trench coat at the edge of the playground.

That's not what it's like. It could be your piano teacher or your soccer coach. I mean,

it's hard to explain it,

but the best advice, and it seems so cliche to be ever vigilant, ever vigilant. And to persevere. Don't stop. Even when you're tired, don't stop. Your child's life could depend on it. Maybe not, probably not, but it could. And that should be enough to Make a parent take every precaution. And I don't mean just in natural life. I mean on the Internet, on social, there's at school, at church, at synagogue, at scouts. You have to be hyper vigilant at all times.

When you travel especially, it's so easy

to fall into the bubble of relaxation and fun. A lot of people fall victim on vacation because they kind of suspend their, their natural vigilance and it's just, you can't. And it's a tough, it's a bitter pill to swallow. It's a tough, tough way to see the world. But it's true. I know it's true because it happened to me.

[Interviewer/Host]

When Keith's killer was released from prison. Do you remember the emotions in that period of time and how that affected your day to day life?

[Nancy Grace]

Oh yes.

I didn't even know. No one alerted me. I remember I got off the air and I must have still been doing a day show because I remember looking out my office window and watching all the cars go by on 3rd Avenue and I think it was just about to start raining because it looked gloomy and I was reading viewer mail and somebody wrote in on the public court TV screen website and went, nancy, did you know Keith's killer was released? And I didn't know. And I remember just feeling empty, just empty and let down. And I just shut my door and sat there and watched traffic go by.

[Interviewer/Host]

I really can't imagine that. And other people. Elizabeth smart, different scenario. But when Barsi was released, the same thing with her. It was like, wait, she's out and there's no alerting the victims at that point. And that has to be terrifying.

[Nancy Grace]

It's, it's awful. It feels like such a betrayal, you know, because nothing will ever bring Keith back. Nothing will ever give Elizabeth back what she lost during the time she was kidnapped. And it forever changed her life. She's an amazing person and has so much strength and strength of character.

And what's amazing is she, every time

I see her, she has a smile on her face and she's very strong and gives such a, an amazing, an amazing example about how to overcome. And I've just, I just think she's an amazing person. But that's the thing about violent crime. You can never replace what was taken.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, we're gonna end on a fun high note because, which I know you've said it over and over, I mean this like you were locked in all the time, except for maybe when you're at, you know, one of your kids activities but what does Nancy Grace do to unwind? What do we do for fun?

[Lyndon Blake]

You're my Southern gal. I feel like we're just like soul sisters.

[Nancy Grace]

You know the truth?

People ask me that all the time. I walk slash jog every single day. I cook almost every single day for our family because that is my favorite thing in the world. My favorite thing in the world is sitting down at the end of the day with the children and hopefully my husband, if he's here, and hearing about their day. In fact, right now, I have a big old pot of vegetable soup. I got it early this morning and made. I asked them what they wanted for supper, and they both said, I gave them choices. And they picked lentils and rice with cheese.

It's an Indian dish I make, and I'm looking forward to that. I'm already planning, what am I going to, what surprise am I going to

make them for dessert?

And it gives me so much joy.

I'm either working most of the time, I get up really early, like at 5 in the morning to make supper and start working, looking for stories, looking

for updates, get them off to school.

And then I'm in the makeup chair by usually 7:30 in the morning and the day starts. But it's all geared toward trying to be free by the time they get home, by the time they finish school and soccer practice and tutoring and all that. So finally, 12, 14 hours later, I'm free to just completely focus on them.

[Lyndon Blake]

That is Nancy Grace, folks. I look up to her so much as a mother, as a prosecutor, as someone that after all these years, still has the same enthusiasm for fighting for justice for these victims of violent crime. Thank you so much, Nancy, for coming on our show. Be sure to check out her show, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Lyndon Blake, and you've been listening to that's so Criminal.

[Nancy Grace]

That's so Criminal,

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