Fire Escape Cast #116 (The Silksong Episode)

Summary

Fire Escape Cast #116 ("The Silksong Episode") – Summary

Date: September 22, 2025
Hosts: Dan Ryckert, Mary Kish, Mike Mahardy

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Fire Escape Cast trio—Dan Ryckert, Mary Kish, and Mike Mahardy—dive deep into Hollow Knight: Silksong, the long-awaited and much-discussed sequel. The gang also reflects on the grueling war film Warfare, shares stories about classic children's board games, discusses the realities and anxieties of modern meals, and debates baby names and castle-era survival. A meaty, laughter-filled episode with real catharsis for Silksong fans, plus candid thoughts on Borderlands 4 and the slick action game Shinobi. Segments are packed with brutal honesty, friendly bickering, and the crew's signature mix of old-school and contemporary gaming insight.

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Major Segments & Discussion Highlights

1. Silksong Deep Dive (53:29–1:41:00)

Main discussion begins: 53:29

• All three hosts have dedicated significant hours to Hollow Knight: Silksong, coming in at various progress points.
• Mary describes the game as a "powerhouse," praising its demanding challenge and the sense of accomplishment it delivers, but admits it's "brutal... punishing me as a person" (57:44).
• Dan highlights the intense emotional rollercoaster: "With Hollow Knight, I have had moments where I'm at a 1 out of 10 and then I have moments where I'm at a fucking 15 out of 10." (59:16)
• Boss fights repeatedly test patience, learning, and skill, with the narrative and world design keeping players compelled despite frustration.
• Deep exploration of player entitlement and the pressures on games journalists and guide writers, specifically after Silksong was not distributed pre-release.
  • “That is a failure of management at that website. Not Team Cherry.” (Mike, 70:01)
• The cast compares the absence and presence of accessibility features in challenging games, referencing both Silksong and the Soulsborne lineage.
• Insightful critique of Team Cherry’s approach to challenge, with Mike asserting: "I think they're confusing frustration slash annoyance with challenge." (79:56)
• Mary, Dan, and Mike all agree: Silksong is not for the faint of heart. Despite exhausting runbacks and “trolling” benches, the game’s payoffs are immense.
• Scores (99:01):
  • Dan: 9.5/10
  • Mary: 9.5/10
  • Mike: 8/10 (so far; expects to revise upward as he continues)

Memorable Quote:

“These benches are liquid gold. They are chocolate for the eyes. They are like heroin. I’m so elated when I see a bench anymore.” — Mary (62:22)

2. The Warfare Movie Experience (23:28–39:10)

Segment begins: 23:28

• Dan and Mike watched the new, harrowing war film Warfare directed by Alex Garland, praised for its authenticity and gut-wrenching real-time storytelling.
• Mike’s personal connection—his brother fought in the same battles depicted—deepens the discussion about war movies, their emotional cost, and the impossibility of genuine anti-war films.
• The cast reflects on the difference between depicting historical brutality for entertainment versus as a stark reminder.
• Mary: “I’m really looking for escapism… I can’t even watch The Bear right now.” (37:13)

Notable Conversation:

“I don’t think I’ve seen a movie quite like this.” — Dan (36:18)

3. Childhood Board Games & Nostalgia (13:09–17:01)

Segment begins: 13:09

• The trio reminisces about games like Twister, Candyland, Mousetrap, Hungry Hungry Hippos, Don't Wake Daddy, and Operation.
• Delightful recognition of how simple pleasures once entertained them for hours.
• Mike appreciates the modern resurgence of Jenga and classic games as communal bar activities.

4. Life, Tomatoes, and Seasonal Melancholy (41:09–52:54)

Segment begins: 41:09

• Mary shares her long struggle to grow a single tomato in Portland (“I got my first tomato this weekend.” 41:37), reflecting on how simple victories feel enormous in a stressful world.
• Entertaining breakdown of heirloom tomatoes, their flavor profiles, and the pitfalls of mass-produced produce.
• The gang transitions into the joy (and meme-ification) of fall—apple cider, pumpkin spice, and the validity of widely popular tastes.

Notable Quote:

"It's the journey, not the destination, right?" — Dan (43:09)

5. Borderlands 4 Review and Modern Co-Op Gaming (106:02–116:47)

Segment begins: 1:46:02

• The cast unpacks Borderlands 4: improved over Borderlands 3, with better moment-to-moment gameplay, less grating humor, but still fails to feel essential amid a crowded release schedule.
• The open world design is appreciated, but advancement feels too incremental; loot and builds lack punch compared to genre peers.
• Mike: “It's commendable for a lot of the improvements it made, but it's also like I don't think it's going to change your mind on Borderlands.” (115:33)
• Minor discussion about the game's endgame and the enduring fun of "Friend Slop," but consensus is a lack of urgency to keep playing.

6. Shinobi is a Power-Fantasy Palette Cleanser (117:00–1:26:00)

Segment begins: 1:57:00

• Shinobi emerges as Dan’s standout recommendation for anyone burned by Silksong's brutality.
• Mike and Mary praise the game's immediate sense of empowerment, slick controls, and visual style—though Mary notes the avalanche of moves can be overwhelming.
• Shinobi is suggested as the ideal “palate cleanser” for 2D action-platformer fans.

Notable Quote:

“If Silksong is not clicking for someone and it’s just too brutal or whatever, I cannot imagine a better palate cleanser than going to Shinobi.” — Dan (125:09)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Hollow Knight Silksong:

  • "I have never felt so pushed with my ability to deal with serious combat situations, stress. The platforming of sections are so long and arduous..." — Mary (57:44)
  • “With Hollow Knight, I have had moments where I'm at a 1 out of 10 and then I have moments where I'm at a fucking 15 out of 10.” — Dan (59:16)
  • "You get nothing. We didn't even put anything here. We hate you." — Mary, on Silksong’s stinginess (124:48)

• Warfare Movie:

  • "This is an apt comparison. Weapons is like this horror movie that's meant to scare you. Warfare is this movie that's presenting something matter of fact, that happened based on eyewitness counts that. With me way more in a horror sense..." — Mike (31:02)

• On Guide Writing & Review Pressures:

  • “That is a failure of management at that website. Not Team Cherry.” — Mike (70:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Silksong Main Discussion: 53:29–1:41:00
• Warfare Movie Reflection: 23:28–39:10
• Childhood Board Games: 13:09–17:01
• Tomatoes, Fall Nostalgia & Popular Tastes: 41:09–52:54
• Borderlands 4 Review: 106:02–116:47
• Shinobi Discussion: 117:00–1:26:00

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Additional Topics

• Reader Mail & Comedy:
  End-of-episode listener questions spark irreverent debates on what skill would keep them alive in medieval times, baby names they’d never give, and which loved one would be most terrifying if they “weapons-style” chased them.

• Food and Meals:
  A real talk about modern food delivery, calorie tracking, and efficiency, triggered by Dan’s ongoing hand injury saga and the need for streamlined, healthy meals during busy lives.

• Upcoming & Future Content:
  Hints at upcoming coverage for games like Yote and Hades 2, as well as promotion for Mike’s wine bar Smash Bros. tournament and preparations for the annual Game of the Year extravaganza.

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Tone & Style

True to Fire Escape’s legacy, this episode is raucous, honest, and self-referential. The hosts lean into their unique chemistry—alternating between raw emotional admissions, deep design critique, and absurdist riffs. Irreverence and vulnerability both shine as they navigate both the highs and lows of challenging games and real life.

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Recap: Should You Listen?

If you’re a Hollow Knight or Silksong fan, this is essential. The discussion is thorough, nuanced, and unwilling to gloss over the pain that’s as much a feature as a flaw. If you love hearing war stories—both literal and about tomatoes—or want to know what’s worth playing (or skipping) this fall, this is peak Fire Escape.

Recommended for:

• Metroidvania & Soulslike fans
• Listeners who appreciate candor & spirited debate
• Anyone wondering why the grind (in games or life) sometimes pays off

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Next episode tease:
Hades 2, Yote, and likely more collective yelling about game difficulty, food, and bodily decline.

Transcript

[Mary]

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[Mike Mahardy]

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[Mary]

Shiraz piss.

[Mike Mahardy]

No. No. Mario's closer.

[Dan Reichert]

No.

[Mike Mahardy]

Just because she guessed a wine.

[Mary]

No. It depends on the brand. Let's be real.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's Oregon Pinot Noir.

[Dan Reichert]

That was my second guess.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. All right. What's happening, Billy Crappening it is Monday, May 5th 16th. I'm your host as always, Mike Mahardi here with episode 267, May 16th. And that's Dan Reichert.

[Dan Reichert]

What date did he say?

[Mike Mahardy]

Jumping in before his Q, as always. That's Mary. What Mary?

[Dan Reichert]

What did you say it was?

[Mike Mahardy]

I said, it's episode 267.

[Dan Reichert]

I thought he said May 16th.

[Mary]

None of these are right.

[Mike Mahardy]

And Mary Cash.

[Mary]

This is all inaccurate.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, it's not.

[Mary]

You know, we are in the age of misinformation and you are killing it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Thank you. What are you guys up to? What are you doing here? I'm kind of busy. What do you want? It's my favorite bit to do with Mary. When we were doing Knievel, we should. She'd start recording and be like, what do you want? I'm busy.

[Mary]

As my favorite every time.

[Mike Mahardy]

We finished Resident Evil 4 Remake finally because Mary was fucking dragging her feet for a year.

[Dan Reichert]

It's very good.

[Mary]

I just had to bully.

[Mike Mahardy]

I still maintain that both Resident Evil 4 and Resident 4 Remake. The last third of both of those games is not good.

[Mary]

It's a bit of a slog, isn't it? Let's finish. I was like, let's go. Like, let's finish it. Whereas like the first third of that game, you don't want it to ever end. I was like, this is awesome. I'm loving it.

[Dan Reichert]

Castle are great.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I really like. That was the era when it's like when I was buying games where it's like anytime it was longer, it always equaled good to me because I'm getting more for my money. And so like when the castle ended and then it's like, wait, are we going to this whole island? There's going to be a whole other thing. I was like, yes. And like I. As I got older and also started getting games for free that probably helped mature. Then it was just like, oh, okay. Longer doesn't always equal better necessarily. And yeah, that. That could have ended after the castle and been okay.

[Mary]

It was still fun. I still liked the regenerative, by the way.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's reset. It's res.

[Mary]

Are not.

[Mike Mahardy]

There's. There's gotta be. There's be a secret underground laboratory. It's Resident Evil. So I'm fine with that happening. It's the fact that you like the. The zombies are this like fully armed militia with like garage doors that are on a timer that does this for some reason.

[Dan Reichert]

Search lights. And it's just this laser commando or something which normally no problem with, but.

[Mike Mahardy]

It'S in and of itself.

[Dan Reichert]

But yeah, but the village and castle were so like. I feel like there's diminishing return. Like there's three acts there. Village, castle, island. I think it is slightly diminishing returns each time, even though I like all of it, you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

And I think Resident Evil 4 remake did a really good job with the castle. Especially, especially the Metroidvania aspects of the puzzles that you're going back to underground. Like the, the knight you have to kill that one night to get the weapon upgrade or whatever it is. Or you get that the. The merchant gives you the, the blue note to go kill him. That stuff's great. And then also what the ways that they changed the blind Wolverine dude fight with the bells. I think they did a good job and remake with that. I like what they did with the lake, but oh man, we're finally done. Mary kind of finally sacked up and fucking finished it.

[Mary]

I really, I've been, I've been bad, bad girl. But I was like, let's do this. Let's finally do this. And I, I'm proud of myself for finishing another Resident Evil game. I mean, we're like past 10 of these games now.

[Mike Mahardy]

Like, we've done well past 10 more than that. I think we're. I think Resident Evil 4 remake was season 16. 16, 16.

[Mary]

All right. That's worth a lot.

[Mike Mahardy]

Bar mitzvah. 1112. Yeah, that one's 1313, I think.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's when you become a man.

[Mary]

Jack off, like discussing game amounts in birthday sacraments.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah. Like how Mario's just an actual middle aged man now.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah.

[Mary]

Legal is what we say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas maybe what they said in the 90s. I don't know if it's okay to say that anymore. I feel like that's kind of fucked up. Upon reflection, it's like Mario's legal.

[Mike Mahardy]

Wait, but wait, I don't.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, he had a mustache.

[Mike Mahardy]

You're talking about a 46 year old. I'm saying they've been legal for 38, 28 years.

[Mary]

Eight numbers. And we're like, oh, Quinceanera sweet 16. 18 is just. Was like legal when I was growing up. That was like.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's still a phrase for it.

[Mary]

But is he not legal?

[Dan Reichert]

No, he is part of this world. As a plumber with a mustache, Mario is a man. Not like baby. Mario is a different situation. That is a baby.

[Mary]

Well, they were both born, were they not? Are you saying they came out of the womb? Like, so I did.

[Dan Reichert]

There's no evidence of Mario between baby and plumber man.

[Mary]

But I think it's just different universes. Like Marvel, where it's like, oh, this Is a different timeline where, yeah, where Mario is a baby. That's what he actually used to look like when he got legal.

[Dan Reichert]

I've never thought.

[Mary]

Now he looks like Mario.

[Dan Reichert]

Do you know what?

[Mary]

I'm using this joke.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I don't, I don't. I'm going to let you play it out because I'm.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

When I was growing up, people used to say that all the time. And I was like, that's really up. And now look at me.

[Mike Mahardy]

You're gonna get us pulled off the air.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay, here's the deal. I, I, I. They showed the new Mario tennis in thing in the direct and there's a baby. Jesus Christ. I'm already drunk. Baby Waluigi. And I was like, yeah, we got a baby Waluigi. Which, like in, in Mario lore, everyone's got a baby thing. There's baby Rosalina, baby Peach, baby everything. But there's nothing between baby and adult. If they announced any kind of official Mario project, whether it's a cartoon or a movie or a game, and there was like a 16 year old Mario, I would hate it so much. Just like, you know, I'm a kid, I'm kid Mario. Like, I would hate that guy Mario.

[Mike Mahardy]

With like broccoli hair and, and the bangs.

[Dan Reichert]

Mario influencer Mario.

[Mike Mahardy]

He plays Roblox.

[Mary]

God, they have baggy jeans. Jankos.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, he doesn't ever. He's straight edge. Yeah, no, he vapes.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I would take, I would take drunk Mario. Like Mario just has a bad turn and.

[Mary]

No, no, they're at that age. It's just like they're scraping cigarettes off the ground and you know, asking you to buy them beer. Can you say tween Waluigi three times fast?

[Dan Reichert]

Twin Waluigi. Twin Waluigi. Twin Waluigi. Nice. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I've been practicing, you know, he was ready. No, but this would work for me like a shithead high school age, really.

[Mike Mahardy]

Dan knows how to say tween while doing research history. Really well, spell it really quickly.

[Mary]

Yeah. What's your desktop image? Pervert.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh no, look, I brought this up on the bombcast and this is fucking insane to me. Which, and it's not there nothing wrong with this, whatever people are into. But we'll get to the hollow knight discussion later. But I, I have frequently while playing this game, searched blue sky for like, you know, I like the trojo boss fight I was having trouble with. And so I was like, is it just really, I just need to see, I need to see if people are having Problems with it. And I just searched the word trobbio and I go by latest to see what are. What people are saying. Every fucking other thing is just like, here's my drawing of Throbbio jacking off with this giant cock. Or here's Hornet fucking sucking off trobbio. Or here's. I. I sort to. Today I started Act 3 and I literally just typed in the phrase Act 3 because I was like, man, this got really hard really quick just to see what people were saying. And it was like, here's fucking DP Hornet with fucking last judge or whatever. What?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

People are fucking horny.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah. Like, all the time.

[Dan Reichert]

The only emotion Hollow Knight would be the thing though. Like, I know people get very horny about video game characters and stuff. We've discussed that.

[Mary]

But like, yeah, rules.

[Dan Reichert]

I wouldn't expect the cartoon bug game to be that, you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, dude, you can.

[Mary]

Anything.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I wonder if there's more of it with Silksong or. I'm just seeing it because I'm searching for Silksong. Terms. I'm sure it helps. Terms. Would it be like, oh, look at this cross puzzle. Fucking bukkake.

[Mike Mahardy]

Did you see. Did you see the Pikmin 3 shit?

[Dan Reichert]

What?

[Mike Mahardy]

Did you see the Pikmin 3 shit.

[Dan Reichert]

A couple years back? I'm gonna. I'm gonna.

[Mike Mahardy]

You said bukashi.

[Dan Reichert]

I know, I know, I know you made it up, but just. I'm gonna see if I can just type in something as innocent as Pikmin is pure into blue sky. Go by latest and.

[Mary]

Okay, is Blue sky just like overwhelmed with porn right now?

[Dan Reichert]

I think so. And I think it's a lot of like, video game art porn and stuff. Yeah, it's. It's not as filthy as the Hollow Knight stuff. Maybe that's just like. But there is just some kind of like corny ish drawings of Pikmin here.

[Mike Mahardy]

There's a lot of Lois from Family Guy porn out there too. You ever noticed that?

[Dan Reichert]

I've heard that.

[Mary]

I can see the market for her. I just don't understand.

[Mike Mahardy]

I only ever heard about. People told me.

[Mary]

Yeah, okay, okay. A friend at lunch, a friend named.

[Mike Mahardy]

Mize my heart and said.

[Dan Reichert]

So I. I will say Pikmin does seem to buck the trend here. I'm not saying a lot of good a thing of Wario's ass and it says, what's the aroma of the day?

[Mary]

That's you're on a blue.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I don't know. It's.

[Mary]

I. I feel like we Maybe. Maybe it's just societal, or maybe we're just, like, at that part of the Internet where, like, you can't Google something without it being disgusting. But, like, my friend the other day was like, oh, like, when was the last time you watched Shrek? And I, like, googled Shrek, and I just saw Shrek's. Like, it was a meme of, like, Shrek's butt, and he just was turning around and going, get out of my swamp.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And it's funny, but I was like, I didn't want to see your butt.

[Dan Reichert]

That's our thing is trying to figure out, like, what percentage of it is ironic and what percentage is like, actually, like, I'm whacking off right now.

[Mary]

You know, hear me out is like, a very popular trend right now. Do you know what that is, Dan?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

We did this on this show. Yeah.

[Mary]

We should do a hear me out kick.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, yeah, we did a few episodes.

[Mary]

I bet Tween Waluigi would be on dance.

[Dan Reichert]

No, look, I love Waluigi, but I can't say I have any interest in seeing any form of sexual Waluigi. No, thank you. No.

[Mary]

I would struggle with any of this. I. I understand that it's like. Yeah, maybe it's like a part of our culture, but is nothing sacred anymore? Is Tetris clean?

[Mike Mahardy]

No way. Those straight. Those straight lines.

[Mary]

You can't look like that going into.

[Mike Mahardy]

A whole perfectly formed for it. You kidding me?

[Dan Reichert]

I guarantee there's Tetris porn.

[Mike Mahardy]

There's absolutely Tetris porn. Real sex is basically Tetris and Twister combined.

[Dan Reichert]

So the Bible described it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mary]

Did you see her shape? I mean, come on.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. By Exodus 23:23, verses 16, 14, when a man gets left hand yellow and the woman gets right foot red, only then shall vision of God come into the bedroom. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Twister still a thing? I feel like Twister was such a mainstay in our childhood.

[Mike Mahardy]

My niece and nephews play it every once in a while.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay. Okay. I don't know.

[Mary]

So I don't think it is. I think it was, like, a classic game. I wonder if they play Candy Land anymore.

[Dan Reichert]

It. That game does just suck. It really does. Like, there's just nothing.

[Mike Mahardy]

Like, you're just shooting reskinned.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

What about Mousetrap?

[Dan Reichert]

I like. Oh, it's a mousetrap. The actual game sucks ass. Like, the actual. Like, I never actually. It's like, oh, you have to get.

[Mary]

Like, nobody played the game.

[Dan Reichert]

You set it up. You do the thing. The green guy Backflips into the fucking tub. And then it's just a great time for everyone. That's how simple it was back then. We watched that same fucking mousetrap thing go through 4 billion times. And we loved it.

[Mary]

Loved it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Did you play Don't Wake Daddy?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Mike Mahardy]

That game was an anxiety.

[Dan Reichert]

I remember the commercials. I remember the commercials.

[Mike Mahardy]

We played it. That's a jack in the daddy. And you get. You roll it.

[Dan Reichert]

You.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think, like, I'm probably butchering some of it, but you roll a dice or you roll a die and it tells you how many times. You basically press this thing. Button on his alarm clock.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

And it's like a jack in the box. It randomly resets every time you put his torso back down.

[Dan Reichert]

It's like the gator tooth thing where you press the gator.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, that was terrifying.

[Mary]

And then, like, stressful too.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, it was terrifying. And then also, Don't Break the Ice was another game.

[Dan Reichert]

Don't Break the Ice is awesome.

[Mike Mahardy]

When you would. You would put. Speaking of Tetris, you would flip this platform upside down. Yeah. With the hammer. And then you'd fit them all in. So, like, it would be pushing to the middle tile.

[Mary]

Games. You like push stuff. I think that feels good. Hungry Hungry Hippos.

[Dan Reichert]

Hungry Hungry Hippos is great. I think one that has the surprise element and the tactile element is perfection. Do you remember that? Where you had to take the yellow.

[Mary]

Pieces and you put it in at.

[Dan Reichert]

A certain time or operation. Operation, operation. Where you have shaky hands going, oh.

[Mike Mahardy]

My God, you could kill that guy so easily.

[Mary]

Did it just buzz or did it shock you? It just buzzed in my mind.

[Mike Mahardy]

It vibrated.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, it shocked. But it made, like, the worst of.

[Mary]

The child, though, Right. I think it was in my head that it hurt you.

[Dan Reichert]

Is it like, electrocuted you to a near lethal degree?

[Mike Mahardy]

Roll good. It vibrated. Trust me. No, but it was the. Yeah. Perfection. Messed with me too. But the. Yeah. Don't like daddy always causing.

[Mary]

You get caught up in the crossfire.

[Dan Reichert]

The idea of crossfire was always better than the game, though. Like.

[Mary]

Yeah, that had a sick trailer, though. Like.

[Dan Reichert]

No, the commercial was incredible.

[Mary]

Kids were, like, really excited.

[Dan Reichert]

And the ball, like a cyber landscape. Yeah, it was great.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Robots is good.

[Mary]

Oh, yeah, that's old.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's old.

[Mary]

Old.

[Mike Mahardy]

I do appreciate Jenga's, like, resurgence as this beer garden brewery game. The giant one.

[Mary]

Giant Jenga. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Or the. The drink. Like in college we did the drinking game one and where everything has something in Sharpie written On it where. Yeah, you gotta chug a beer. You gotta. You can give out two drinks. You can. You know that stuff. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think I just want to stop talking about video games for good and go play Jenga board games.

[Mary]

Yeah, sure.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

It changed the podcast a lot.

[Dan Reichert]

There's a lot of good games.

[Mike Mahardy]

There are a lot of good games. We're going to have quite a few to talk about tonight and next episode with embargoes lifting. I think we're all playing something that we can't talk about right now, but looking forward to that. But we have plenty to talk about before that any. Oh, I forgot to mention I should have mentioned this at the very top of the episode. In fact, I might actually apologies if I'm repeating myself and I re recorded it to put it at the top because I should have. If you find yourself in the Venn diagram overlap of people who like wine and video games and you're in the tri state area or Pennsylvania or you can be in New York in like, let's tentatively say October 20th, which is a Monday, which I realize is tough. The wine bar I help out at, we're doing a fighting game tournament and we've got three prizes that are. We're lining up. So put it on your calendar.

[Mary]

What game?

[Mike Mahardy]

Smash Bros. We're. Yeah, so I'm torn.

[Dan Reichert]

We're.

[Mike Mahardy]

We're deciding on that between melee and Ultimate. We're going to do melee. We're going to do like three stock rules, no items, one on one. But basically it's going to be a tournament. We're aiming for 32 people. Doesn't mean if you're. If you're not in the tournament, you could still come hang out. The wine bar. Going to set up one TV for the tournament itself. Another TV for just like warming up or hanging out, practicing or like, you know, to show the scoreboard once you get into the final four and whatnot. Gonna bring a bunch of different controller options. First prize is gonna be. We're aiming to make it. Actually I shouldn't get into the prizes yet, but there will be some really cool prizes whether you're super into wine or not. They will be wine related, obviously, but it'll be a fun time. It's the bar I help out at. So if you're in the area, it could be a good opportunity. Come hang out. Kind of a meetup. I'll be there. That's one of us three go by Mike. Yeah. Come hang out.

[Mary]

I love the concept of a meetup is just if you Run into one of us in the street.

[Dan Reichert]

Come say hi to Mike.

[Mary]

The fire escape meetup is so successful again. Ha. This is.

[Mike Mahardy]

What happened to these grapes?

[Mary]

Now they're alcoholic.

[Mike Mahardy]

Check it out.

[Dan Reichert]

Is this your character when you are the wine guy?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. People hate. Like, people hate it when I welcomed them to the bar with that.

[Mary]

Ha.

[Dan Reichert]

Good.

[Mike Mahardy]

Welcome this response.

[Mary]

But sit around.

[Mike Mahardy]

Come trick it. Yeah. So put October 20th in your calendars and then we'll put it on. I haven't asked Dan and Mary about this, but I'm gonna put it on Patreon and then we'll. We'll promote it.

[Dan Reichert]

I know we're gonna have to huddle about it and.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, okay.

[Mary]

Sign some paperwork.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Check the business rules.

[Mike Mahardy]

If you're listening to this, Jake is coming to town in a couple days to hang out here. Our producer, Jake Decker, he's coming for my. My B day, my bidet.

[Dan Reichert]

He's going to be having a meetup. He's in a hotel. So just go say hi to Jake in The hotel.

[Mike Mahardy]

Room 237.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

At the Holiday on Holiday Inn on the Lower east side.

[Dan Reichert]

Just knocking 37. The Haunted Shining room.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yep. That's what.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Decker requests that at every place.

[Mary]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

He doesn't understand.

[Dan Reichert]

He brings a naked old lady.

[Mary]

He brings a weird old naked woman.

[Mike Mahardy]

With him and puts her in the tub and says, stay here.

[Mary]

Drills a hole in the wall.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

He's like a Porky's meat shining situation. Yeah.

[Mary]

Strange guy. We love him dearly, though.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, he'll be there. So go say hi to him. But yeah, no, he's visiting.

[Mary]

That's cool. It's nice when your friendos visit. Feels good. Speaking of, I mean, like, we're gonna all be visiting each other pretty soon in like a couple. Not that far away. It's. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Some dates and stuff. Not quite ready to announce yet, but, you know, we're doing our usual game of the year business doing Minnesota and that's going to be great this year. I was talking to Mike when I first hopped on this call about this year is going to be insane. As far as the top 10, like, there's just a lot of sleeper stuff that, like, you know, it's not necessarily the huge titles that you would expect that are. That came out of nowhere and are just like, oh, these are like some of the best games I've ever played. Um, it's. It's awesome. Like, every. I looked at my, like, top 10 right now, and every one of them is just a killer you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Last month or two for me has started to get tough, or not tough, has to get really fun. But then has caused me to, you know, see Game of the Year as this tough thing to rank. Because early on in the year I was like, oh, this is fun. This is great. Oh, that game's amazing. That will definitely be. I can't see anything surpassing that. Now all of a sudden, I have like six games I'm kind of playing simultaneously. Other games might be demanding all my attention because I'm obsessed with them, but yeah, it'll be. It'll be interesting. Won't be vitriolic at all.

[Mary]

Quarter of this year was a little dry. Like, I. I don't remember having so many games where I was like, these are big contendees. And then all of a sudden there's like six right now that I'm trying to race to.

[Dan Reichert]

Prince Blueprints was an early one.

[Mary]

Yes. There's no question about that one. But, like, fairly dry.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. What else did I have from early this year? A lot of them, like, the summer. About. I liked about a lot about.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, about was great.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. I got plenty more of that. Spring and summer is when it started to really pick up for sure. But yes, we will get to games in a bit. Obviously, Silksong, the big one, I have not talked to outside of some very brief first impressions with the three of us. We've not really got into, but we'll do that.

[Mike Mahardy]

Listening. This is the first time all three of us are talking about that game as a group extensively. There's definitely been one off DMs where I'm like, what'd you think of this specific thing? Or did you also hate this? Or did you also love this kind of stuff?

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I literally don't even know if Mary, like, likes it or anything.

[Mike Mahardy]

We really don't. I'm not on social media. I have no clue.

[Mary]

I haven't said anything about it yet. But, like, it's hard to not. We're not going to get to games just yet. But I just want to say, like, usually this first half is like, what have you been up to lately? And the truth is, this is what I've been up to lately. I took the day off of work and played silksong for 11 hours. That is what I did. And when you ask me, like, in the last two weeks what was really memorable for you, it'd be like, oh, pouring 35 hours into this game. That is what I have been doing when I am not working or, like, eating Food. I am usually playing this game or thinking about this game all the time.

[Dan Reichert]

I guess if we are. Yeah. Because we usually do just talk about. This is catch up bullshit.

[Mary]

This is bullshit time.

[Dan Reichert]

There's one thing I think I did which, you know, Tuesdays is me and Bonk's movie night. So we did watch a movie. So I did one non hollow night thing in the last couple weeks. Good for you. I saw Warfare.

[Mike Mahardy]

What the fuck? I was literally about to bring this up.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, I watched it last night.

[Mike Mahardy]

So did I. This is Deja Vu.

[Dan Reichert]

That is an intense movie. And like, I was curious because Mike.

[Mike Mahardy]

I feel like did like maybe because we like Hulu promote it to. Or put it front and center for both.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, I thought we watched on hbo Max. Yeah. Oh, since it got. We saw the trailer and we heard just the concept of the movie and Alex Garland being involved and everything. It's like everything just kind of like, oh, this seems like us type of movie. And then I was very curious when I watched it to Mike, hear from you because family in the Iraq war.

[Mike Mahardy]

And stuff in that. In Ramadi.

[Dan Reichert]

That was in that area.

[Mike Mahardy]

I made the mistake of watching that movie late at night after a man had gone to bed and I had had a few drinks and I read and I know Alex Garland and I were.

[Mary]

True story too.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Sorry, Dan.

[Dan Reichert]

So the idea of it is, is that this was the director. Alex Garland has a writing and directing credit on it along with. I think the guy's name is Rex something. Who is one of the soldiers. That was Ray. Maybe Ray Mendoza.

[Mike Mahardy]

Let me look it up.

[Dan Reichert]

Mendez. Yeah, I forget the name, but. So basically in this incident and Garland shared. Yeah. Navy SEAL shared writing and directing credits and like they basically recreated like it all kind of takes place in. It's like an hour and a half long. It's in real time, which I'm a huge sucker for like that real time storytelling thing. And of just this. I don't want to like say exactly all the things that happened. Basically they're stationed in Iraq in this one area and they're just kind of like hanging out, making sure that there's not, you know, conflict popping up or whatever. And then some shit goes down and then it's just like real time what went down. And it was supposed to be like, it was pitched at least as like, extremely accurate. Like working with the soldiers that were there based solely on their testimony. There's no like created characters or anything like that. It's just supposed to be like we made a movie very Specifically about this thing. Like, Mike, did it read to you as authentic?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I wasn't there, but, like, so the. I believe the movie took. The incident in. The movie took place in shorthand. Anglican anglicization is Ramadi, but the town is called Ar Ramadi. Two months. This took place two months after September 2006, which is, you know, Felucia got a lot of the headlines. Felucia. I think everybody is part of everybody's, like, kind of vernacular now because of some fucked up shit that we were doing and stuff that was happening there. Just like one of the worst parts of Iraq. And then Ramadi is actually where my brother was with the Marines. He went twice to Ramadi. So I didn't realize a lot of that. I knew what the movie was generally about. I knew it was Alex Garland. And Navy SEAL worked with him to ensure authenticity and help direct. I knew the dude who played Luca from the Bear was in it. I know the guy from Shogun was in it. He was the sniper. I knew a bunch of actors were there. I'm like, all right, Amanda went to bed. It's 90 minutes. It'll be a tight 90 minutes. I'm sure it'll go by quickly and not feel like an eternity. Parts of it to me felt like the worst, but, like, certain scenes.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

So I ended up watching this movie where I was like, oh, shit. So this is what it was like for my brother when he was 25 fucking years old. So this happened a month and a half after my brother was there during some days when we basically were calling hotlines. So many Marines were dying that my parents were calling. They couldn't dispatch enough people to front doors to say your son had died. So there were hotlines set up to like, check on whether your son or in some cases your daughter was alive. And luckily he. He was. But like, I. Of the, like, war movies I've ever seen, this is the most, like. I think the word is overused. I think it's cliche. This is a fucking visceral movie. Yes, there are some. And it's not like it's not over the top. When violence happens, it comes out of nowhere and it's. It reminds me of Green Room. I don't know if you saw that very, very different movie. When violence happens, it's so matter of fact and like that, it's somehow way grosser. It's not Hollywood it up.

[Dan Reichert]

It'll be like, oh, here's some blurry in the background. That's like audio.

[Mike Mahardy]

The. The. This explosion just happened. And now there's no audio for six minutes straight.

[Dan Reichert]

It's one of the most effective parts the whole movie for me. And I'm not going to, like, spoil specific stuff again. This is the thing that really happened, so I don't know if spoilers.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, it's not really plot heavy. There is.

[Dan Reichert]

Is an explosion that happens and in the immediate aftermath of it, it's very much doing that Saving Private Ryan kind of trying to emulate the like, you know, disorientation and kind of the tinnitus type stuff and everything. And like, you're kind of hearing muffled yells and stuff like that. And at one point they pull one of the guys who's yelling into the house. And then it does this harsh cut from like super tinnitus, the guys that were outside to like, hearing what his screams are like inside the house to just like people who weren't, you know, concussed and tinnitus and stuff. And it is just so jarring. You just hear these awful screams and this guy is in a real bad way and. Oh, my. Unbelievably effective.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. And also, like, I've never. From a movie and, you know, I've talked my brother about a lot of stuff like that's neither here nor there, I guess, but he went through some very, very bad stuff. Like, you know, none of which I obviously condone, but that's it. It's. It. You know, it's. It's. It's been done. And, you know, he's. It still affects him to this day, but, like, I've never watched a movie before where the movie itself and how certain characters are acting put me in the situation. So quote, unquote. Well, there are certain characters that, like, were going in, like, locking up and going into shock. And I kind of. I like, I understood it and I'm like, how the fuck. You're 25, you're 23, you're 21, you're any age. And this is happening right outside this building. And all of a sudden you have to go out and grab this dude and drag him when, you know, there are a bunch of these people who are just defending their town.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Right outside. And like, somehow, like the way the camera comes in over people's shoulders and then later on, and they're basically waiting. There's a past, a certain point. Again, like, I don't. It's. It's a. You can't really spoil this movie. It's not super plot heavy. They're waiting at a certain point. They're like, hey, people know we're in this house. We're no longer this, like, recon outpost. We are this target. So we need people to come in and help us. Oh, cool.

[Dan Reichert]

Like, medevax. And hearing that, like, oh, it's gonna.

[Mike Mahardy]

Be six minutes, two Bradley tanks coming in. So then they're like, I'm pretty sure the six minutes is real time, so they don't. So you're like, you're waiting six minutes on your couch watching it. And I'm like, that six minutes felt like 40 minutes. And I'm like, it's. It's so good at setting that stage. And when stuff. When shit hits the fan, it's the most horrific movie I've seen in a while. Like, I watch weapons, and weapons mess with me less. Like, oh, yeah, they're very, very different. Like, you know, it's not sensationalized different. No, I know.

[Dan Reichert]

But.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, no, but this is way, like, I'm okay. This. I. This is an apt comparison. Weapons is like this horror movie that's meant to scare you. Warfare is this movie that's presenting something matter of fact, that happened based on eyewitness counts that. With me way more in a horror sense, because all of a sudden, I can't. Every single horror movie I've ever watched, minus, like, the Descent and Borderlands Mary, which you and I watched for the podcast we did every single horror movie I've ever watched.

[Dan Reichert]

Borderlands was a bad movie, but I didn't know what the.

[Mike Mahardy]

Nice. I could remove myself and I could remind myself, hey, I'm watching horror. It's entertainment. Like, I'm not in there.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

This really, like, pulled me in, in a way. I was having a very hard time reminding myself that I was, in fact, on a couch watching this unfold, and I was not fucking feeling all this.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, well, because in a way, like, you're. I mean, you are, but you're not. Because, like, the whole time you're watching, you're like, jesus Christ, this really happened. Like, and I think that is. Like, I feel like I. I do enjoy war. Enjoy is such a weird thing to say with movies like this because, like, when I rated it on letterboxd, I, like, was thinking about giving it five stars, but then I thought that was kind of like, whoa, you fuck. Yeah, let's watch war. It's like, it's not like that. It's incredibly well done, but I didn't want to. Like, it's not like a. You don't. It's not. That movie kicks ass. Like, no, it's. It reminds me more of like, you know, saving Private Ryan, like the D day scene, because, you know, you have the more kind of like, artistic, you know, the full metal jackets, the Apocalypse now is that are kind of using this war as a backdrop to tell a story about it. And then you have like, the D day scene from Private Ryan and Warfare that I think are just trying to, like, let's just present this as, like, the horrors of war just laid bare here without trying to, like, add a narrative over it or anything. And I think that's what, like, made it so intense and affecting to me is that it's like, this fucking happened, like, horrifying.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I, like, halfway through, I'm like, I don't know if I could finish this. Like, I was like, oh, man. This is like. It's also funny because, you know, they're reconstructing this place where a family member was. And so I was. I was wondering whether it was even good for me to keep watching the movie.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

But I finished it and, you know, I. Jake and I used to do a video essay series for Gamespot called Reboot. And there was an episode where it's like, hey, could video games potentially portray war in a quote, unquote, realistic way? Is it possible? I don't think it is, but there's a quote from. I think it was Francois Truffaut, the French film director, saying there's no such thing as an anti war movie.

[Dan Reichert]

Brought that up after we watched it. She said that, yeah, no matter how.

[Mike Mahardy]

Hard you try to portray war in a bad light in a movie, it's always going to end up being entertainment or it's always going to end up, like, sensationalizing or heroicizing or mythologizing the people in it. Warfare was one of the. Aside from Deer Hunter, I think Warfare, Deer Hunter's rough.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Both of those movies are like. It's up there with Deer Hunter in a sense. And like, Deer Hunter obviously digs into their home life afterward and before and whatnot. That's. That's more of a, you know, like this epic war movie. But, like, Warfare, I came away from, like, I. I just, like, I was kind of had a pit in my stomach, nauseous afterward.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, she. She brought up that quote to me after we watched it, and I was like, man, I don't know what this one, if that applies, because, like, I can't imagine anybody watching this and being like, yeah, fuck yeah, America, War. Like, this was cool. Good thing we were there. Man, I want to enlist. Like, no, it's.

[Mary]

You might surprise yourself. I mean, even, you know, Band of Brothers, like, a lot of the originals when they did this, people do idolize characters, right. And so it. It does end up. I haven't seen it, so, like, maybe I need to watch it and see if I can. But generally speaking, it is almost impossible to do this without being like, oh, but there's a hero in this story. There's good. We root for these guys.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. I mean, there are. There are a couple that people. Later on, and, like, again, you kind of see the effects of, like, shell shock. Not shell shock. You see the effects of, like, this numbness and fear on the original squad. And then another platoon has to come in and help, and they are just these professionals. And all of a sudden you're like. It's just like. Then it becomes sort of about, like, how different leaders can affect the morale. And then you start thinking about, like. And then this other dude does come in and he's gung ho. You're like, yeah, but.

[Dan Reichert]

But it's like, this is so different than, like, I. I did not like American Sniper. You know, like, these ones that are just like, oh, we're going to really, you know, pull on the heartstrings and show the bravery of the fight. Like, it's. I mean, there are definitely instances of bravery and courage and stuff like that in warfare, but, like, it does show these people as humans of, like, they're just getting concussed and shell shocked and panicking. And in a way that is. It's very easy to empathize with them.

[Mike Mahardy]

The whole time. The family that owns the house that they took in was in the bedroom, like, under, like, captive. And then. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

The translators.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

You know, like, it's. Man. Yeah. Seriously, just knowing it all happened this way, it really affected me in a major way. It's like, damn, this is. I don't think I've seen a movie quite like this.

[Mike Mahardy]

I don't even know that I can recommend the movie because I'm glad you watched it. I wouldn't know what. I mean. Like, I do think it's extremely effective and well made. And what it was trying to do. I didn't enjoy watching it. I don't think it's, like, it's not. No, no, no. Sure. Yeah. Exactly. It's. It's. If this all sounds up your alley, I think this is one of the better. To Mary's point, there are episodes of Brandon Band of Brothers that absolutely make those guys out to Be these myths. There are.

[Dan Reichert]

Ryan does that. Like, very straightforward. But then, like, it there. It does turn into, like, look at these heroes.

[Mike Mahardy]

There. There are other episodes that you're like, oh, man, this is rough to watch. This is that episode. This is, like the. This is intense. This is, like, chaotic. This is visceral. This is not the kind of movie I should have watched, like, with a glass of wine after my wife.

[Dan Reichert]

At the end, when it pops up, like, the credits pop up at the end, I was just like, jesus, I.

[Mike Mahardy]

Need to go for a walk or something. Yeah. Yeah.

[Mary]

Oh, you're not selling it for me right now. I'm, like, really looking for escapism, too. It's just kind of like a tough time.

[Dan Reichert]

This is escapism. Back to the quainter time of the Iraq war, right?

[Mary]

Oh, what a lovely time. I can't even watch the bear right now. I'm like, I don't have it in me. Like, I'm not watching, like, eight people scream four, you know, @ each other while they try to make dinner.

[Dan Reichert]

Screaming and bleeding and shooting. Yeah, it definitely is that.

[Mary]

No, this explosion hurts.

[Mike Mahardy]

Ruptures their eardrums for a bit. It's not all screaming.

[Dan Reichert]

It is horrifying. For most of the hour and a half running.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Mary]

When he opens the bottle of champagne, everyone's gets the tinnitus. Yeah. And they're like, ah, I can't.

[Dan Reichert]

No, no. There's the part where he's trying to give morphine to the guy who's bleeding out, and he accidentally does it upside down and jabs himself with the morphine.

[Mary]

Can of beans, and beans go everywhere, and they're like, 18 orders. We are past due.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, and then there's the part where you're like, oh, they gotta roll this guy over. How bad could that be?

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, my God. And then they do the other way. Jesus.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, they're like, oh, wait, his shins are in 80 pieces, so that's gonna hurt a bit. Yeah.

[Mary]

And the guy, he's running out of money for the restaurant, but they've got to make this dinner rush.

[Mike Mahardy]

He's, like, getting rolled over with morphine. He's like, thank you, chef.

[Mary]

I'm gonna.

[Mike Mahardy]

Every time he gets more feet. I shouldn't. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

It was definitely the biggest test of my, like, you know, I talk about, like, you know, movies. Like, I don't really cry. I don't get, you know, emotionally affected by movies, because it's just, like, I can just see that, like, this is a movie. This was a soundstage. In Burbank, this didn't really happen. And my brain can't really do that clicking it. But, like, my brain clicked in with this one because it's like, this happened. So, like, I felt every bit of.

[Mike Mahardy]

It, you know, this movie is extremely good at putting you in a very specific spot at a very specific time for 90 minutes in real time. And if that sounds like it's something you want to see, then go for it if you want to. Like Mary said, enjoy your entertainment and, like, kind of escape. Don't do this.

[Dan Reichert]

Is not that. No.

[Mike Mahardy]

Which I totally get. And I probably should have told myself before I started that movie. I'm not. I don't regret watching it, but, yeah, I. With my personal family baggage attached to it, literally.

[Dan Reichert]

I was thinking about you, like, while I was watching, like, you and your brother was.

[Mike Mahardy]

That was where he was. Like, it took place a month and a half after he was. He was still there when it was happening. But this took place a month and a half after some shit was going down with him and his Marines.

[Dan Reichert]

But it didn't seem like a good time.

[Mike Mahardy]

No. Doesn't. Not, not on my, like, not on my bucket list to, to go through that shit.

[Dan Reichert]

Not so much. Mary, you watched anything?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Travels back in time to be a chef for Samurai.

[Mary]

Got to make filet. But the steak is tough.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, no.

[Mary]

I know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Does she have morphine to help her?

[Dan Reichert]

Morphine, Steak.

[Mary]

Morphine for the steak.

[Mike Mahardy]

I know, Mary. I, I, I really. I wish I had. I wish you were there to tell me, hey, let's watch something that we can not think about.

[Mary]

I mean, not to bring it back to games, but, like, because I've been playing Hollow Knight so much. The idea of, like, finishing a boss in Hollow Knight and going down and a war movie, she's like, get out.

[Dan Reichert]

That was literally not.

[Mary]

I'll have a heart attack.

[Dan Reichert]

No, I played, like, hours of Hollow Knight and then watched Warfare and then.

[Mary]

Do you hate yourself? Do you want to live past 45? Like, we are. We have to be kinder to our hearts. Like, I, I am so stressed. I work and I am like, wow, that was a really stressful day. And then I play Hollow Night, and I'm like, wow, that was a really stressful game.

[Mike Mahardy]

And others work on this.

[Dan Reichert]

This is why hair fell out.

[Mary]

War Frame. I don't.

[Mike Mahardy]

Company that makes Xanax is having a field day, though.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Oh, there's, like, no reprieve. Even my hobbies are stressful right now. I need. I, like, I, I started a. I Every summer I, like, try and grow a vegetable, and every summer I fail because it doesn't get that much sun in Portland. It's like kind of, you know, it's like not the sunniest town in the world, but we've had a really sunny summer and I planted a tomato plant and all summer I watered it and kind of waited and God damn it, I got my first tomato this weekend.

[Mike Mahardy]

Nice.

[Dan Reichert]

So what happens then? Is it just a celebration, you have a tomato party? Or is it just like you eat it and it's like, that's that.

[Mary]

I cut it up and I put it into guacamole, but before I put it in guacamole, I had one, like, piece by itself and ate it. And I'm sure there's some, you know, cognitive dissonance in there, which is like, this has to be the best tomato of all time because I grew it, but it genuinely tastes so much better than store bought tomatoes. I wish I could have grown more than one. It was so good.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Is growing numerous harder than growing? Like, let's say you're growing one. Is there a big difference between growing one and growing six? Or is it just like, I gotta put the water over like, I played Stardew. Oh, baby.

[Mike Mahardy]

You want to talk about growing crops? That's all I've been reading about for the last four years.

[Mary]

This tomato was a one. It was a star. It was a star. This would have won the awards at the fair. I think when I grow up, we would do cherry tomatoes. You can get like 30 cherry tomatoes when you do that, because they're small and they just kind of pop out, right? Well, if you're growing one fat tomato, which is what this plant was doing, it just took months for it to, like, shove this one out the door. I was so proud of it for making even one, but I wish I could have had. It's kind of a bummer to be like, I grew tomato this summer. Like, I can't even say tomatoes.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's good. You got one that's better than most people. I. Yeah.

[Mary]

What'd you do this summer? I grew tomato. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

It's the journey, not the destination, right?

[Mary]

No, it's not. I want to eat it. It absolutely is.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, then there's easier ways if you just want to eat one.

[Mike Mahardy]

But they do taste better fresh, like from your own. I mean, they literally are go through way less preservation.

[Mary]

I don't know what tomatoes are like in your supermarkets, but heirloom tomatoes, which is what I would compare a homegrown tomato to right. Like something that's like by a farmer. You know, they're kind of weird looking with all the little noodles and hooks in them. They don't look like your regular tomatoes that you get. They can be like $7. Like they're expensive per pound, but like, that's a lot of money for tomatoes.

[Dan Reichert]

This may shock you. I've never bought a tomato in my life.

[Mary]

You should. Oh, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

No, no, no. I'm new to the tomato game and like, I'm okay with it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Dude, Tomatoes. I didn't. I grew up, my whole family, we disliked them. I think it was because of like the texture. Yeah. But oh my God. Now I think, like, if I, if there's one, I don't know, I'll call it a fruit. I know it's a debate, but I'm gonna say it's a fruit.

[Dan Reichert]

Is it? I think it's just a fruit.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's a fruit of a vegetable plant, I guess. But it's. No, it's a fruit. I don't know. I call it a fruit. If there's one like thing, food thing I could not, you know, ingredient I could not live without. Tomatoes is on the short list. Good tomatoes, I eat them like an apple. Now, heirloom tomatoes. People say, when people ask, like, why do you like heirloom tomatoes? A lot of people say they have more flavor. It's not just that they have more flavor. It's that they have like eight more, eight additional flavors that normal store bought tomatoes don't have that you're not going to get. Like there's, there's, there's several layers to it. It's. They are a completely different fruit and they are just delicious.

[Dan Reichert]

So I just googled image search heirloom tomatoes. Don't know what these are.

[Mary]

I'm just laughing that you guys were talking about war like 10 minutes ago and I was like, I was like, you guys, I'm really into tomatoes right now.

[Mike Mahardy]

You navigated us out of Ramadi.

[Mary]

Try. I'm trying.

[Mike Mahardy]

You're the second squad that comes in.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Dan and I couldn't get out.

[Dan Reichert]

Guys, let's talk about tomatoes.

[Mary]

Fucked up.

[Dan Reichert]

So I'm looking at these tomatoes and to my layperson's eye, when I picture tomato in my mind's eye, it's just smooth and round and it's got the little green thing coming out the top. These. There's way more creases going on.

[Mary]

Yeah, they've got like all these bits and bobs they've got. They like look weird. They almost look like aliens.

[Dan Reichert]

They look like.

[Mary]

Yeah, they got pumpkin Y vibes to them. And I think that's. I wish I knew more about heirloom tomatoes, but I just think, like, they are. They are bred more, like, in small quantities, whereas the tomatoes you're probably eating were made for mass consumption. And so they're trying to go for as many tomatoes as humanly.

[Mike Mahardy]

And you can replicate a shape over and over under these same conditions. Whereas, like, heirloom tomatoes are often grown on small hectares in Europe or whatever. Or, you know, like San Marzano tomatoes in Campania. I think, like, those, like, they grow in an actual, like, field where the conditions are not, you know, it's up to the climate. So then they can, like, grow in weird ways, but again, they develop phenolic ripeness over the course of a growing season. So they can get actual, like, tens of different flavors. So they.

[Dan Reichert]

I was just gonna say all of that.

[Mike Mahardy]

I know. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

So I think my well was poisoned with tomatoes. Because growing up or not just tomatoes, but like, so many different things that took me forever to get to, like, you know, pickles, tomatoes, mustard, things like that. That in recent years I've kind of been like, oh, shit, why didn't I know these were good? Because, like, since everything I fucking ate for my entire childhood was like McDonald's and stuff, I'm sure that's not the top of the line stuff because I just remembered, like, they looked floppy and gross.

[Mary]

And imagine your first tomato being on a subway sandwich. It's like paper thin and looks like been taste like water. Just like complete sad sandwich. Yeah, of course that's not going to be a good impression.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. So I think that's maybe part of why I grew up thinking, like, that stuff looks gross. And now that I can try, like, actual, like, normal ones, not fast food or whatever, it's like, oh, I get it now.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. No, they're. Tomatoes are. I would hate to live without them. Glad you grew one.

[Mary]

Thank you. I'm proud of it. The guac was really good too. I had a nice evening and I bought my other stupid fact. But I am proud of this, so I will share it unapologetically. I like estate sales, and I went to an estate sale and this. This lady must have really liked bakeware or, like, cookware that is seasonal. So they had like all these different pots and pans, but it was like, specifically for Christmas and they had, like, snowflakes on them. But she had an entire set of bakeware for fall and had pumpkins on it. I bought the whole Damn pack. All 10 pieces with their original lids. $70. Like in today's. Yeah, in today's money. This should have been, like, 600 bucks. I'm thrilled. And so I went and made this food specifically so I could showcase all these different pieces.

[Mike Mahardy]

I liked it. I liked all the videos.

[Mary]

I thank you. I was like, I'm. I'm Betty Crocker. I was, like, enjoying the experience of, like, having an excuse to use all my custom fall bakeware, which I will have to put in a plastic bin at the end of, I guess, November, because the season will be over these next three months. I'm going to be insufferable.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, we're. We're holding off on. There's apple cider at the grocery store now. And I make mold cider every year. And also, apple cider is the best thing ever. I used to make homemade apple cider with my grandpa, so it's got, like. I have strong memories attached to it. I held off. I did not getting it till the official first day of fall, which is Monday the 22nd, which is my birthday.

[Mary]

Monday.

[Mike Mahardy]

I always bring in the fall with my birthday.

[Mary]

And your Big Apple Boy. Big Apple Cider boy.

[Mike Mahardy]

Big Apple cider Boy.

[Dan Reichert]

You got juice there, fella. It's tangy brown. You're in cider town.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I'm in Cider Town 24. 7 until November 27th.

[Mary]

How dare you? That quote D. Are you a pumpkin spice girly?

[Dan Reichert]

You know what? I did recently have a pumpkin spice thing. Bonk went to, I think, Caribou coffee or something. They had a pumpkin.

[Mary]

I knew it was bonk. She's the best thing that ever happened to you. Every time I ask you something and hope that you've experienced it, you're like, you know what? Bonk did you think.

[Dan Reichert]

You think you're breaking news to me? No, she. She got me. Whether it was Starbucks or caribou or something, she got me a pumpkin spice something or other. And God damn, that's just a good flavor. I see why it's popular.

[Mary]

It's good. Everybody likes the pumpkin spice. I'm into it. I. I was not as strong as you, Mike. I. As soon as I saw a pumpkin spice coffee creamer, I got it. Because one of my favorite times of year is when my coffee tastes like pumpkin spice. And I'm not gonna get a Starbucks every. Like, that's insane. So I just make it at home in the morning and do my little. I actually like to make the Syrup myself. It's really easy. And you just chuck it in a jar. Then you have pumpkin spice all. All month long again. I'm going to be insufferable. I love this season. It's my favorite season.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Whenever something gets, like, newly kind of very popular in more recent years or whatever, it tends to become a meme to on it between, like, you know, pumpkin spice stuff or. Avocado toast is the go to for, like, boomers making fun of millennials and stuff. But it's like, no, they're just good. Like, avocado toast. Isn't this, like, stupid thing that, like, is. Is a fad or something? It's like, no. Avocado toast kicks ass.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Chris Plant said something when we worked together at Polygon that really resonated.

[Dan Reichert]

He.

[Mike Mahardy]

He mentioned not. And he might have been paraphrasing somebody else, but I remember him being the one to tell me that not everything that's good becomes popular, but everything that becomes popular, there's some. There tends to be something good about it in the entertainment space. Like there might be something really shitty that gets popular. You can probably find something good about it.

[Dan Reichert]

Sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

In the sense that, like, something spoke to that many people. There must be something worthwhile about it. I'm trying to think of, like, examples.

[Dan Reichert]

Of things like what. What is the biggest discrepancy between most popularity and least.

[Mike Mahardy]

The Kardashians.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

But even then, they seem to have a good sense of just, like, what. I've never seen the show. But, like, they must have understood.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Audience.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's my point.

[Dan Reichert]

And where reality TV was.

[Mike Mahardy]

And yeah, you might have to stretch farther.

[Mary]

You want something, like, universally hated that's popular. Dan, what are you looking for?

[Dan Reichert]

Is there anything that you would consider objectively bad that got very popular? Like, I mean, you can point to a million different fad things or whatever. Oh, Backstreet Boys or something. But it's like, no people like that. What do you. Why are you fuckers laughing?

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm not. Nothing.

[Mary]

He's not.

[Mike Mahardy]

You're both. Something has to do with what we were saying before we started recording. Just move on.

[Dan Reichert]

We will move on.

[Mary]

There's nothing like that that matches that dish.

[Dan Reichert]

I understand. And we will move on.

[Mike Mahardy]

But no, I think again, apologies, Chris. He listens to us every once in a while. Apologies if I'm butchering your quote, but there is it. I think it's worth remembering that even when something you think sucks and has no redeeming qualities, it got popular for some reason.

[Mary]

You ain't gonna catch me slipping. Even if it was, everything's great. There's actually nothing wrong with anybody.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

That's what everyone's saying. Yeah. Do you want.

[Mike Mahardy]

I like to live now. Let's talk about video games.

[Mary]

You won't see the engineer that slams the Nissan Rogue's door 13,920 times. Or the corrosive chamber that simulates 15 years of life in five months. Or the Rogue heat baked for over 300 combined hours. What you will see is a vehicle that can take punch after punch and keep rolling. Nissan number one in new vehicle quality among mainstream brands by JD Power. We put it through the worst, so you get its Best for J.D. power 2025 U.S. initial Quality Study Award information. Visit JD Power.com Awards Awards based on 2025 model year. Newer models may be shown.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, it's time. Let's talk about Solid day. Silk Song, Hollow Knight.

[Mary]

Solid day.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Hollow Knight.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, that's bad. That's not a good.

[Mike Mahardy]

Let's start over. Let's start over.

[Dan Reichert]

We're not live. You can start over. Take on that.

[Mary]

I want everyone to know who you are.

[Mike Mahardy]

Start over. Let's start over.

[Dan Reichert]

You actually keep that in. That was just terrible.

[Mike Mahardy]

Jake, bleep it out.

[Dan Reichert]

Mary, there's so many people that can do a podcast.

[Mary]

Don't you have a boo button? You have all those fart.

[Dan Reichert]

My shit hasn't been working, so that's.

[Mary]

I have not been able to fart for real.

[Mike Mahardy]

Because you got too many.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't have. No, I think I still have a fart. Hang on. Ones that were, like, grandfathered in. I can do. Do I not have a fart?

[Mike Mahardy]

I love the idea of Dan farting in, like a courthouse and then saying that one was grandfathered in. It's fine.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't think I have a fart.

[Mary]

This is allowed.

[Dan Reichert]

No, I have the built in ones. I have none of my custom ones. No.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's time to get serious. It's time to get serious. No sound effects.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, sorry. So sorry. Okay, do it. Do a witty intro to this segment.

[Mike Mahardy]

We've all been playing a game called Hollow Knight Silk Song.

[Dan Reichert]

All right. Accurate, if not witty. Yes. Okay. Okay, here's the deal. This has been a long running thing going back to the beginnings of this podcast about this game. Going back before that. Going back to me and Mary yelling at each other.

[Mary]

Going back before that, before I knew you existed.

[Dan Reichert]

That's not true. That's not true. I remember being at the Twitch office with you and. And you. We were Sitting in the weird Twitch bar, pinball lounge or whatever in San Francisco. Because I remember being like, wow, she really likes Hollow Knight. I think it had just come out and you were like in full, you know, like four beers in rave mode about it. And I played a little bit and I was like, it was fine.

[Mary]

All right, who's this weirdo? All right, that seems accurate. That does sound like something that happened. I have no memory of that, but that does sound like what happened.

[Dan Reichert]

I remember the whole saga. I do recall. And we've had a lot of evolutions of it. And honestly, we have not talked about this prior. Like, all I have seen is I've seen a couple people in Giant Bomb chat and stuff like that. Mention like, oh, I was watching Mary's stream and she was raging at this boss or something like that. That's true, but we have not talked about it, so.

[Mary]

No, it's exciting. These are like our genuine, fresh first impressions.

[Mike Mahardy]

I also never got the chance to talk about Hollow Knight, the first game on this show, because you two always are fucking.

[Dan Reichert]

You blew it with your fucking intro. Let us have our moment.

[Mike Mahardy]

Mom and dad are always arguing and I'm just sitting in the corner listening to fucking Everclear.

[Dan Reichert]

Go suck off some drapes or whatever you do.

[Mary]

Quiet over there. Solid day.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm fucking out. Yeah, go fucking talk about the game. That's fine.

[Dan Reichert]

Go. No, you're playing it too.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, too late. I'm out.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay. Even start. How do we even start?

[Mary]

I'm gonna start very.

[Dan Reichert]

Mike, you're trying to step Mary down. Mary, the floor is yours.

[Mary]

Mary, thank you.

[Dan Reichert]

I've never been at odds with you with silksong discussion.

[Mary]

I'm happy to have this conversation with you all. I've been almost dreading it a little bit because I. I really do love this game and I am enjoying all of my hours that I've poured into. I think I've poured 35 hours into it, which is crazy considering I have not beat it.

[Dan Reichert]

Quick check in. So 35 for Mary. I'm at about 40 as of today. Mike, you're at 12. Okay.

[Mike Mahardy]

I just. I can tell you the thing I just unlocked. That'll probably be a spoiler though, wouldn't it?

[Mary]

Do you know what act you're on?

[Dan Reichert]

This is good. This is going to be the big Silk song discussion for this podcast. So, like, hey, if you're worried about spoilers, but this is not the segment for you, so.

[Mary]

I agree.

[Dan Reichert]

All on the table. Yeah.

[Mary]

I mean, I'm not gonna, like, get Rid of crazy stuff. But like, yeah, it's. You have to talk about some of.

[Dan Reichert]

The boss and abilities and bosses and.

[Mary]

Yeah, totally.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, I've like, I think an hour ago I unlocked the. The glide ability and slow one.

[Dan Reichert]

That's a very helpful one.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I've been using it for about an hour. Hour two backtracking. I have not gotten to the next big boss, but I just followed.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

So that's where I'm at.

[Mary]

I think it's phenomenal. I think it is such a powerhouse of a game. It really pushes you as a player. I have never felt so pushed with my ability to deal with serious combat situations, stress. The platforming of sections are so long and arduous and yet at every turn and every death. And it is true what you have heard of my streams and me being like these sons of bitches. Which I did say multiple times out loud when streaming this game. I adore this game but it is punishing. Is punishing me as a person. And I have said out loud multiple times, maybe I'm not as good of a gamer as I think I am. And then I do something really cool and I say out loud, I am the greatest gamer on earth.

[Dan Reichert]

I. I think that's. That's a big thing with this game is like Bonk has mentioned like while I'm playing it downstairs, she's hearing me, I'm screaming. I am fucking like I. I've had a couple bosses that it's like, you know, 20, 30 times. It feels like I'm just dying and I get so close and some complete horseshit happens like ah, fuck.

[Mary]

God damn.

[Dan Reichert]

And like I don't get. I'm not a throwing controllers angry gamer type or anything. But like I am so. Because I get so fucking invested. I'm like, this is the time. I know all the attacks I just have to fucking execute. And I've gotten so angry at it. But that's the thing is like, okay, so a lot of games like, okay, for instance, we'll probably talk a little bit about Borderlands 4 and after this Borderlands 4, you could probably play that whole game and be at a solid 6.5 out of 10 enjoyment for many, many hours.

[Mary]

Sure.

[Dan Reichert]

With Hollow Knight I have had moments where I'm at a 1 out of 10 and then I have moments where I'm at a fucking 15 out of 10. You know, it's just. And. And that range like I like it all where it's like, you know, I'll go upstairs after I'm playing and I'll be like, oh, my God, the game's incredible. I love it. And Bonk will be like, yeah, it really sounds like you're loving it down there. Like, you know, sarcastically, because I'm yelling at some and I'm like, no, but no, I do. Like, that's the thing. I do. Like, I'm getting angry and I'm yelling, but it's. I don't think I would change anything. It is brutal and challenging in a way that, like, I am nostalgic for. I think, you know, growing up playing, like, NES games, like, you know, Mega Mans and stuff like that, and beating your head against stuff over and over again, just getting pissed off. And then when you finally beat it. Although it's better than that because, like, there was a lot of horseshit stuff in, like, old NES games and that were, like, not good hard. You know what I mean? This is, like. This is, like, meant to be this way.

[Mary]

And some of them are hard. Yeah. I actually said the same thing, which is, I haven't been this angry at a game since Lion King on SEGA Genesis. Like, that last boss fight of Lion King, I was like, first of all, I don't even know how to throw. You know, Scar. This is too. This is too hard. It's not possible. But even once you figure out what you're supposed to do, it can take you so many lives, and then you're. You're gone. You lose your whole save, and you start all over again. That's a brutal game. Yeah, this game is also brutal, but in a different way. It's teaching you very extreme mechanics over time that you will die so many times figuring it out and that even once you're like, oh, I actually figured it out. I know what they're teaching me, you stupid. You're gonna have to do it another hundred times. You're not there yet. You still don't know what you need to do to get it done. That's how tough they've made this game. But it is. It is so rewarding when you are able to actually succeed in this game. I feel such a sense of accomplishment when I am able to get past that boss fight. When I saw the words Act 2, my jaw hit the fucking floor. I. I could not believe. I thought I beat the game. I'm so stupid. This game has humbled me.

[Dan Reichert]

I'm trying to remember what was the moment that does the switch over. Because, like, I have lately just been in the Act 2 to Act 3 thing, and I'm trying to rem. Remember what? Because it's the grandmother silk thing for Act 2 to 3. What is the thing between 1 and 2?

[Mary]

It's the fire bug that has the really long run up. He's like a bug. Second phase run back. And his second phase, he has a fire mallet, and he likes shit on fire.

[Dan Reichert]

Is it the one where the ground is falling out into the lava?

[Mike Mahardy]

No, that's the giant with the forearms.

[Dan Reichert]

I'm struggling to remember which one this is, but, like, so fucking many of these things.

[Mary]

It's a sand area with wind, and it has a really, like, father of the flame run back. And then father of the flame is.

[Dan Reichert]

The one where you break the lanterns.

[Mary]

He has a. Like, a lantern on a. Like, on a metal chain, and he throws it at you, but it's also on fire now. And then waves of fire go. Go by.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay, maybe last year, something Elden ring.

[Mary]

Like.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, yeah, they.

[Mary]

I. I'm surprised. I. This boss is, like, locked in my core memory. This. This one was so hard for me personally. And then when I got it done, I was like, that's it. What a. What an incredible accomplishment. These benches are liquid gold. They are chocolate for the eyes. They are like heroin. I. I'm so elated when I see a bench anymore. I'm like sweet, sweet berry wine. I cannot believe I get to sit on this. I'm so happy. I'm so, so, so happy when I see these. And I just think that this game evokes so much emotion. There have been issues that I've had with it, but, like, generally speaking, what I'm saying is, like, I don't think I've had a game make me feel this way in years.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. And I feel like there are. There were phases of, like, you know, most bosses, I would say, you know, I'd be between, like, the third or fifth time I fought them. And then there were, like, a few that, like, you know, we're in that 15, 20 thing. And, like. Like, for those. Those are the ones I'm. Yeah, those are the ones I'm screaming at. And, like, they kind of all follow the same pattern where it's like, okay, the first, like, 10 times, you're just kind of learning the attacks. Like, okay, when he does this, when he jumps in the air, I just need to not be at a diagonal. And then I can do the pogo stuff or whatever. And then you kind of learn phase two, and then it's like, okay, well, phase three is the last one. That's when the ads come in, you know, how to take like. So there's the part, there's the learning process, which I would say with these really hard ones for like maybe 10 tries. And then there's the like overconfidence where it's like, okay, I know how this guy works. I know all the attacks. I just gotta go in there and kill him now. And that's where I would get the most frustrated is when it's like, I'm not getting surprised by.

[Mary]

I know what to do now. It's just not happening for me.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I'm like, true gamer. It's like, oh, I got it here. Okay, I got the right loadout and everything. I know all the attacks, I'm good. And then you spend like 10 deaths. And like, what the is wrong with me? Why am I up here? Like, oh, that's. And then it's always like at a point where it's like you're at the most pissed off and you're just like, kind of just like over and over emotionlessly, just like doing the run back and just like, fucking, okay, whatever, whatever. And then I would inevitably get into a fight where it's like I'm like halfway through the fight, I'm like, I haven't been hit yet. And like, wait, is this going really good? Hang on, don't get too excited. Don't get, don't get too excited. Don't get. And then it's like, I'm still not getting hit. I'm still not getting hit. This is phase three. I haven't been hit yet. And then you just win. And it's like, sometimes it's like you didn't get hit once and it just like you've just been beaten down so much and the muscle memory has been established and it's like, it happens. And I kind of think that's an awesome process to go through with something. Like, if that was every boss, I would, my beard hair would fall out. Not just my head hair. Like, I would lose my mind and not want to play this. But like, for it to be, you know, every, like 10th boss or something is something that, like I am screaming at the tv like, I like a.

[Mary]

Little hairless mole rat without anything. I feel like you gotta have some hair.

[Dan Reichert]

I consider, yeah, what would that at some point in my life, life, I will shave everything and it's gonna be weird, shiny. Yeah, yeah, you gotta have some. But no, I, I, I do like the process too, of like, okay, if you've been beating your head against it, you know, take a break. Yeah. Or There's a thing like, oh, trying the same thing over and over again, you know, and it's not working. You gotta shift something up. And so it's like, okay, you sit on the bench, and it's like, okay, what tools do I have here? What can I equip here? And then, like, you'll. You'll find certain things where it's like, I got the cog fly. And it's like, oh, shit. Okay. This fight where I can't really. Do you have the cog fly, Mary?

[Mary]

Is that a trap there?

[Dan Reichert]

It's a tool, and it's the. The kind of bugs that you can spawn, like, five of them.

[Mary]

Oh, no, I don't have that.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, my God. I just saved my ass in so many fights because, like, there's so many where, like, the windows to attack these bosses are so, so tiny. And so you're just, like, dodging, dodging, dodging for your life. And then it's like, yeah, I got one hit in, then I gotta run away and heal. The cog flies are a great way to, like, just load up on them. As long as, you know, your tools are at, like, the maximum. You know, your craft kit, your toolkit, all that stuff is all powered up, up, and it's just like, all right, I'm gonna spawn all these dudes. I'm going to attack when I can. But even in the. In between moments when I'm just dodging whatever, these little guys are kind of, like, nipping at him and stuff and just doing kind of nice, you know, it's very.

[Mary]

Like, I. I did use something like that. I had a one that he. When I heal it, it damages everything around me.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, the mirror thing. Yeah.

[Mary]

And I love that because it's so nice to be like, I gotta heal. I'm. And something comes at me to hurt me, and I actually kill it because I'm healing, and I'm like, that is sweet, sweet revenge that I can defend myself. I do think that it is more important in this game than in Hollow Knight to upgrade your person. It is so difficult to get through this game without upgrading your stats. You need to have all the bells and whistles. You need to get your needle sharpened. Do not sleep on these things. I made the mistake of going through a very difficult boss fight before I had the double jump. I really could have used that double jump, you guys.

[Dan Reichert]

There are some things, too, where it's like, there's only a few, like, actual needle upgrades. And, like, your needle is, like, your main point of attack. So it's like, you have to get this pale oil stuff to upgrade it. And, like, I got a couple of them. All right. And there's like, a third one that it's like, I kind of, like, I was like, how do I get the needle updates? And I, I did a few times, like, search, Like, I needed a needle.

[Mary]

Update or I did a search too. I got really stuck on one of them. I just could. I didn't know what to do. Yeah, I, I don't know. I don't think that's, like, a shame for me.

[Dan Reichert]

No, no, no.

[Mary]

I kind of want to hear, like, I really appreciate your opinion on this. I like, also, when your Mike's opinion is, like, as, like, ex journals, there's been conversation about this game from, like, a journalist, because journalists didn't get this game early, which means they had to kind of get through it really quickly.

[Mike Mahardy]

Maybe we should beat that. Maybe we should beat that.

[Dan Reichert]

What's that?

[Mike Mahardy]

I just said fuck off. Not to you, Mary, to the people that were complaining.

[Dan Reichert]

Honestly, I do see that. Like, like, one thing that is kryptonite to me is, like, games, media, entitlement stuff.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Sorry. I, I, I. Yeah, maybe we should beep that. I probably can't.

[Dan Reichert]

No, no, I, I think you're fine. No.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay. I'm sorry.

[Mary]

I thought you were. I thought you were genuinely upset. No, I think that's super annoying.

[Mike Mahardy]

It was annoying that, like, people were complaining about that. I get that.

[Mary]

I saw that.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I, it's the same thing I had where it's like, when. Whenever I would see journalists complain about going to E3 because it's so much work. You know, back in the day, I'd be like, what the? Like, this is the. You're getting paid to go to E3. What the. You can complain about when there was a point where there was, like, a Steam glitch and a lot of us journalists, like, got our, like, press accounts, like, we couldn't log into it. And I saw people tweeting, like, oh, this is a big problem. It's like, no, this is a major crazy perk of the job. And suddenly you don't have it. Like, this is not a problem. This is. You don't. Like, we get a lot of benefits. Yeah, you're gonna be okay. And so, like, I kind of did feel that way with the Hollow Knight stuff, where it's like, when I saw that it was not coming out early, it's like, yeah, okay, I'll play it a bunch. When it comes out, it's fine.

[Mary]

I read one review that broadly was like, listen, this game is like so punishing that it's like almost mean to the player. That's a very not fair tldr. But if I were to cliff notes it, I felt like that was what this reviewer was saying, which is like, it's almost like cruel for as the purpose to be cruel.

[Dan Reichert]

It's a lot of the discourse. Yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

And my kind of reaction to that was but when I get frustrated at this game, I can go to bed and I can have a snack and I can watch TV and relax. But a person who like needed to review this game probably as fast as possible was not given that grace and thus was probably really angry trying to get through this game as fast as possible. And thus that might have actually like.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think some of their thoughts on the process at sites.

[Dan Reichert]

It is.

[Mike Mahardy]

I don't think you should have to beat a game like this to review it. I think there are people finding a way around. Sorry to give a final verdict on. I think you should beat it. Let me say that. Yeah, I think anybody complaining that they are like killing themselves to beat this game in order to review it has more of a problem with their stupid. We really should beep that out. But like that is a failure of management at that website. Not Team Cherry like you, you. You're taking it out.

[Mary]

I agree. The systems, the system is broken. Right. And you can kind of hear it in their writing sometimes for sure. Again, broadly, I'm not trying to like call it anyone specifically.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, I agree with you and some.

[Mary]

Of the, some of the reviews I was like, you just sound mad. Like you had a miserable.

[Mike Mahardy]

And then it was a miserable time, I'm sure. But like again, that can be self.

[Dan Reichert]

Imposed or that can be bad management where I've had it both ways. Where it's like, you know, Death Stranding and red Dead Redemption 2. I rushed through it because I like no one at Giant. It's not like Vinnie was being like you better like, no, it wasn't that. I just kind of felt like I need to do that. And I played it in a not optimal way and didn't like the game as a result. But there are also times where it's like I was a game informer and I had to review. You have a deadline for a print edition of a magazine and it's like I Mario and Luigi dream, which was insanely long and like 5060 hours or something. And I had to like spend an entire weekend, which this is when the 3Ds were chained to the desks because Nintendo's insane. And so I had to like spend the weekend at the office hunched over a fucking three ds or ds, whatever it was at the time, because I was flying out Sunday night and I had to hit the deadline.

[Mary]

Optimal experience.

[Dan Reichert]

That's the thing. It's like that, that stuff is fucked in a million different ways. And also it's like, you know, games journalism typically doesn't pay very well. So it's like, yeah, when you're paying people, you know, $20,000 a year and then expecting them to spend their entire weekend and like, it's like, yeah, I can. There are very valid complaints, for sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Yes, absolutely. And that, that can vary wildly depending on whether you're just a solo Twitch streamer or you work for Valnet or something.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. When I say it's just a failure management, there are many factors that play into it. I do think some entitlement comes out. And also.

[Dan Reichert]

I.

[Mike Mahardy]

I, I worry or I think that, like a lot of times when it comes to video game reviews, we do put a lot of stock in someone finishing game before they get the final verdict on a game, which I get because there's some shit can happen in the last third. You review Resident Evil. We were talking about Resident Evil 4 earlier. It's like, you review that game based on the first act, that's a 10 out of 10. You review the game based on the first two of three acts. 9 out of 10. You, you review the game this these days, and I might get crucified for this. I think it's like a 8 out of 10, but like, it's still an amazing game. But like, if you didn't play that third act, you can't offer a final verdict on that game.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I was adamant about always beating games if I was gonna like, sure score too. I think that's you guys on a game without beating it. But like, if I was gonna give a score and write a review, I had to beat it for sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. And, and yeah, so like, I, I don't want to get, I clearly riled up. But like.

[Mary]

I'm very curious what you guys think about it. A lot of emotions when I, when I was playing it and when I was reading other reviews of it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, it did call into question what Team Cherry owes people. They've been working on it forever. I think, like, here's the thing. I think if you have a game that you're confident in and you think given enough time People will love it if they can play it at a good pace. It behooves you, the developer, the publisher to give out code as early as possible. Obviously then that doesn't take into account how long it can take to get. I don't know. We see for my day job, we see quite a few games. We play a month out and then there are still some technical things. And then all of a sudden the game released in a month and they fixed it.

[Mary]

It.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's not that simple. They had to put a lot of work in to fix it. But there's also the flip side where it's like, okay, well we think our game is good, but it's not ready technically until two weeks before launch. We're still going to give it to people so they have some time beforehand. Had Team Cherry given people two weeks to play this game as opposed to just letting them jump in on or giving them release day codes, would that have been any better? I think people would have still said like, sorry, two weeks is actually a lot like a week. Like when the game. We don't know that the game was ready to go two weeks before release. Unless Team Cherry.

[Mary]

That wasn't the reason though. The reason wasn't because the game wasn't ready. The reason was because of backers.

[Mike Mahardy]

Kickstarter or backers. Sure.

[Mary]

Well, that's the reason they gave.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Mary]

They basically said it was unfair.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. So at that point, like, I guess they were faced with does press deserve to play the game before people who before or with.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, I respect the decision they made. Like, I, I think I totally understand that. And like it's tough because like some people are in genuinely tough positions with this where it's like, you know, like managing editors and things like that. And companies are like, you know, if they're saying like we need a scored review ASAP because this is going to drive a lot of clicks or whatever, that sucks that you have to rush through and everything thing. I think the right answer is, hey, have the reviewer take it, take their time with it and review it when it's ready. The ones I really sympathize with are the ones like, especially a game like this, which. The amount of guides for this thing, oh, here's the best Rosary Farming location. Here's a guide for every one of these 50 bosses or whatever. Here's like all these interactive maps and all these things and like the people that have to put together guides for this game, which by the way, that's what all like a bunch of fucking sites One is guide stuff, you know, driving traffic and stuff like that. And they are most of the time paying freelancers fucking pennies. And they're expecting this shit because like, oh, people are playing it at the minute this game goes live and we better have these guides ready. Like, that has to be so shitty. Like so much work on such a crazy timeline for nothing. And like, I, I really sympathize with anyone who's been put in that situation. That fucking sucks.

[Mike Mahardy]

Guys, writers keep the lights on at many, um, although to your point, they're not rewarded commensurate to those efforts.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, I mean whether you're a writer or a guide writer, whatever, but like guide writing isn't especially.

[Mike Mahardy]

They can, they can play an open world game or, sorry, a reviewer can play an open world game and like decide that they've seen enough side content, miscellaneous stuff to get an adequate overall view of the game. Guys, writers don't have that luxury. They have to say, oh, I have to go do all 18 of these.

[Dan Reichert]

I have every lost flea in this game. I need a guy the second day it's out or whatever.

[Mike Mahardy]

I need to go beat all. I need to go beat, do every single cave in Borderlands 4 because then I can't tell people about the sixth one. So like, yeah, that sucks. And I shouldn't sound so callous because I empathize with the people who are dealing with that when they get the game on release day. I think for me it is the entitlement that it's expected no matter what. And that is part of the system of, okay, the developers, the publishers should released this beforehand. But to Mary's point, there are other backers who have been, you know, taken into account here. So it's.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't fault Team Cherry at all for this and I also don't fault them for. We talk about the difficulty stuff. You know, that has been a lot of the discourse and criticism is how brutal this is. And you know, it depends on the game because it's like there are things where it's like Elden Ring. You don't pick a difficulty. And I like that they're very confident in kind of the balance of their game. And you know, there are ways that you can just kind of like tease it and over level yourself and things like that. And you can kind of brute force your way through boss. You do that in Bloodborne a lot of from games and everything. And then there are people that get mad when it's like, oh, there's an easy mode for this game or like, I remember it was like a fucking thing when I think the first Bayonetta came out and it was like, there was a mode where it's like, hey, if you just want to see the story and see all the flashy, cool stuff in Bayonetta, I forgot what they called the mode, but it was just like a super easy mode where you can literally mash a and just watch Bayonetta do all these fucking cool combos and stuff. It's great. Like. Like, let's say, you know, there's any kind of like, disability or you're just not don't have the reflexes or the history of that type of genre or something like that. You just want to like. Bayonet is a fucking cool game to look at. So, like, you don't need to, like, pass a DMV test to fucking play Bayonetta, you know, this is on the more brutal end. And I think I don't want every game to be like this because I do think it would shut out a large amount of the audience. But I think just in that kind of like, NES kid nostalgic way, it's like, I don't have an option. Look, I can't go in the options and change a Perry Window or something like that. Like, I kind of like that. Like, anyone who's gone through this game has had the same experience, but I also understand if someone doesn't like the game because of that, you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I. I'm not as far as you two. I think Silksong's a great game so far, and I've never really talked about Hollow Knight on Fire Escape, but I think that's also a great game. I think Team Cherry clearly, in certain respects, has incredible design chops when it comes to boss fights. Overall world design, I think they are up there with Fromsoft in terms of, like, creating a world that's interconnected in a way where I feel like I'm rewriting pathways in my brain when I play their game. When I play Hollow Knight, and when I play Silksong, I feel like the game's world maps are creating wrinkles in my brain that weren't there before. I. I think I. I have a similar feeling with Silksong that I did with Hollow Knight that sometimes I feel like I'm forgiving Team Cherry because the. They're so good at payoff that I'm forgetting that I'm forgiving them for a lot of minor annoyances. It's not even the abuse, and they're.

[Dan Reichert]

Straight up trolling at times. Like there are a couple benches and like hey, I made it. And it's like fuck you.

[Mike Mahardy]

You know, like yeah and, and like I, I felt this way with Hollow Knight. It's like, like I feel like we talk about Hollow Knight with reverent terms because it is really fucking good game. I, I, it's, it's up there with one of the best games in the last decade. I think it's incredible. I also think, and I don't, I'm kind of putting words in Team Cherry's mouth or like assuming a lot on their part. Whether intentionally or not. I think they're, they're confusing frustration slash annoyance with challenge. I think, I think meaningful challenge is a very tough balance to strike. I think, I think I'm of the opinion that Elden Ring actually and I love Elden Ring. That game's unreal. I still think about it to this day, every day. I still think some parts they made a bit too approachable. I almost wanted a bit more mystery, a bit more obstacle in the way of me getting to my goal. Whereas with Silksong just minor enemies are more annoying than they are than they are challenging. And, and like again I'm sure and I've, I'm, I'm doing well in the game. Like I said, I, I'm not that far or I'm not as far as YouTube but like I got the glide. I'm now doing the air vents and whatnot. I thought that that area was incredible how they designed that, how you, you literally cannot get back out unless you figure out the right path with the glide. It was great. Like as a level design geek I was geeking out. I also just think so much of the time when I'm doing run backs or whether I'm just exploring and trying to map out the world in my head which is where Hollow Knight, the first game clash for me as well. Metroidvania aspects. And again this game is also in a lot of conversation with what it even means to be a Metroidvania. But that's like a whole other thing. I think I'm trying to build this map out in my head and I'm getting annoyances and frustrations that aren't challenging. They're just more they're chores to do rather than they are meaningful challenge.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I, I, I see what you're saying. Like there are some enemies just like in a run back or whatever where it's just like a lot of flying enemies will be things where it's like look, this isn't a thing where I have to, like, train and learn myself. The patterns. It's just like, you jump up and you try to swipe them and they're always backing up and stuff like that. Just. This is some little asshole that takes three hits. Hits. Let me just kill him so I can get past this thing. And it's not, like, a satisfying thing. Yeah, you'll get hit more than you should, and you just get angry and. God damn it. Now I have, like, half my health and I gotta go to this boss.

[Mike Mahardy]

But the game is so. Team Cherry is so good in both of these games, especially Silksong, that they're so good at payoff, that I do end up forgiving them for the small annoyance. Not small for those major annoyances, to the point where I'm like, oh, God, this game's incredible. But then, like, Amanda walks by when I'm playing in here, and I'm like. And she's like, how are you liking it? And it's become a running gag. When she walks by, she's like, do you hate her or do you love it? I'm like, I love it. And then, like, 20 minutes later, she asked me. I'm like, this is fucking stupid. Team Cherry, like, does not know what they're doing. Like, of course, I'm obviously being a dick when I say that. I know they know what they're doing, but you get what I'm saying? Like, no, they don't. They don't understand the difference between meaningful failure and just fucking being annoying. And yeah, they're definitely trolling you at some points when you sit on the bench. That gen then is a Indiana Jones switch that gen you up when you just finally got there after not even a run back, just getting through this tough area that you're trying to platform through and kill minor enemies. And the boss fights are great. Some boss fights kick my ass. Other the, the, the Giant, that's kind of like the one where you do fall in the lava when he's punching the platforms. You got the forearms. Like I said, sick.

[Mary]

I like that one.

[Mike Mahardy]

I got. I think I got hit once and I one shot him.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

And, and it was like the spectacle. The. I figured it out. Like, that was kind of like a gimme on their part. That's like, hey. And I'm. I'm sure some people had difficulty with that. I, I just happened to do that boss fight better than other times.

[Mary]

Yeah, we get it.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm way better at games than everybody. And like, I, I, you Know that that was, like, kind of every once in a while, it does feel like they are being aware and offering an olive branch and saying, like, hey, we know you're going through quite a bit. Here's a moment of, like, generosity on our parts. But outside of that, I'm also Mary. It's funny, we were talking about warfare earlier. You're like, that's not what I want out of my entertainment right now. Like, and I totally get that.

[Mary]

I'm getting beat. I'm at war three to six hours an evening right now with a game that is pushing me to my fucking limit. And it is. It is. I've said this a lot. The word that I usually have been using to describe this game is brutal. It's brutal to my thumbs, to my mental state, to my patience. I am still happy. I sleep good at night. I am. I am satisfied. I love this game, but it is, like, it would be a lie to say that I love every minute of this game. I am getting through the game, and I am. And I reflect on it. I'm like, I can't believe I accomplished that. There are sections of platforming that are so fucking insane in this game. I. The ascension that I just did to.

[Dan Reichert]

Where you at? What area?

[Mary]

It was water or all the way on the left map of the game.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, the. The mount. The. The breezy mountain.

[Mary]

Yeah, the freezing area.

[Dan Reichert]

There's some tough.

[Mary]

I mean, I said it so many times. I was, like, just so brutal. Like, we're at different levels of play, and I've. I'm not that far behind you in terms of how many hours I put into this. I must have spent hours just trying to climb and dying to the end before I was like, there has to be a bench around here. And I just start hitting random walls. Sure as shit, I do hit a random wall. There is a bench, and it costs $80 that I don't have because I've been dying in a frozen. And so I go. I take the train. I take my bug train and I go, and I get. And I go kill some bugs, and I get $80 and I take the bug train back and I run up this fucking mountain and I'm freezing my ass off, and I have to get through this area, this gauntlet with all of my shit, and I die. And then I have to get back and I have to get my shit or I have to go. I have to take the train back to Bogville. You know, the stress that I had on my body when I got back, I cut My silk got all my beads back and sat on that bench that I bought. That's, like, the best value bench I ever got. It's like the equivalent of, like, when you were, like, 12 and you didn't have any fucking money and your parents were like, get a job, bitch. And so you work really hard and you mow, and you get, like, 50 cents every time you mow, and eventually you have enough for McDonald's cheeseburger. And it's the best goddamn cheeseburger you've ever had because you bought it. It. That was. That bench. This bench was the sweetest bench of my life because I earned it. It was so hard. And I sat on. I was just like, oh, good. And then. And then I watched the Great British Bake Off.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I've been watching. I've been watching the new season as well.

[Mary]

It's the only thing that cures me.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's a good balance, for sure.

[Dan Reichert]

Polar opposite of hollow knight Mary. I know exactly what you mean. Because, like, I. You know, bio water is an area that everyone hates so much for good reason. Because, like, the magnets you fall in, you can't heal and all that.

[Mary]

Oh, right. You can't heal if you fall in the. I know exactly what you're talking about. That's mean area. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

There's so much platforming and enemies and things like that. And I desperately wanted a bench, and I finally got to a point where it's like, I'm so scared because it's like, okay, I got a couple masks left of health. And it's like, okay, I just need to find this fucking bench. And then I see the rings that, you know, chakra or whatever, like, leaves like, oh, my God. I think I'm near chakra. I think I'm gonna be able to buy the map. This won't be in vain. And then I got for. And she's like, all right. 80 roses.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, God. When you hear her singing.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. I was three rosary beads short. I had 77. And I was like, okay, there's got to be some in here. And I'm going back. And I'm like, gotta be one little store.

[Mary]

Some tiny slug bug so that you can buy this map.

[Dan Reichert]

And every thing I find is just dropping shards. It's like, something about biowater. Whatever. Like, no one has any rosary beads. I put on the tool that makes it, like, in case some rosary beads beads fall or something that'll just suck up to me or whatever. No. And so I'm sitting like, I'm a half Hour in, I'm still just desperate. Just give me two beads. I don't. And then I finally, I like went out of biowater. I went, it took, this took forever. I found some other area where I went in. One of those little bugs is there and I killed him. And I got like five or whatever. I was like, oh, thank God. I'm gonna go back. And I just backtrack my whole way back there and she's gone. She's not there.

[Mike Mahardy]

Are you kidding me?

[Dan Reichert]

And I had to backtrack all the way doing move to wherever it was.

[Mike Mahardy]

Maps.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, my God.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

King Grow guy or whatever. And like, King Grow. God. King Grow, the biggest swamp guy or whatever. And he's got a bunch of ads and the maggots and stuff. King groans. I think that's his name or something.

[Mike Mahardy]

Who's next? King Hami.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, I get it.

[Mike Mahardy]

King Plant.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

There's a Dave Grohl a bit. No, this is not good improv. Say yes and to me.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay. So, Mary, you know, obviously I came.

[Mary]

Around on holiday, so, Mary, it's me and you.

[Dan Reichert]

We're doing this two person podcast. Yes, Mary, I super came around. I, I, I came around on Hollow Knight. I appreciate the first Hollow Knight. I beat the game. I definitely didn't feel the need to like 100% or like totally situation or anything, but it's like, okay, I get it. And like a lot of my frustration still kind of remained. But like, I think with Silksong, I think it's an important thing if this game turns you out. Like the idea of it and people talking about how brutal it is. I think the first 10 hours or so are probably like, bosses will get harder, a platform will get harder and things like that. But like, at a certain point you've got more health, you've got more tools, you've got basically loadouts that you can set up to make things easier and tweak. So if you're dying and beating your head against boss, whatever, you can be like, all right, this isn't working. Let's go back here. Oh, I'll put on this bell that helps me against fire attacks because it has fire attacks. Attacks. I'll use the cog flies here. Well, I just got this thing I'll play or, or maybe I'll go and I'll explore for a while. I'll get a new, you know, crest or something. Have a whole new attack style or something. Like there's, there's. I almost feel like it gets easier after that first Hump. Because, like, you don't have options. You can switch between, like, early on, like, you get, like, you know, the last judge and some of the harder boss fights and stuff. You can't do a lot. And by the end, when you've got double jumps and glides and air dashes and the, like, the. The claw thing or whatever, like, you've got so much mobility and you have so many tools, and hopefully at this point you've got a lot of mask shards and more silk and things like that. Like, there's just different ways you can approach it. So I do think it lessens the blow a bit of the harder parts. And so I think for that and other reasons, like, I mean, with the first one, the difficulty wasn't really the thing that ever bothered me about it.

[Mary]

But, like, no, actually, I don't even remember. I think I remember, like, a couple boss fights being hard. Hard or the Gauntlet. Do you remember that? Where you, like, had to do wave after wave after wave? That was very difficult for me, but I think it was optional. I'm pretty sure you didn't have to do it. Anyway, I just don't have these memories of being like, what a difficult game. I just remember being challenging. This game I would describe as difficult. I would say it's not for the faint of heart. I do love this game and I recommend this game, but I would not recommend it for someone who is looking for, like, a fun, casual Metroidvania. I don't think that's what this is. I think this is like. Like a absolute brutal test of a game. It will challenge you to your core. It is for someone who is looking to be punished, But I think it's worth it. I do think it's worth it to go through it, but it's not for everyone.

[Dan Reichert]

And I think it's brutal in ways that are better than the way the first one was. Because the first one would be a little player unfriendly and things that. Like, the things that frustrated me were more like, okay, I know where I need to go, but the closest fast travel station is like, I gotta fucking hike all the way over here. And, like, you still have to do that. It's.

[Mary]

It's not like now, which I appreciate.

[Dan Reichert]

The bellway and the. The things. Yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

They've created new mechanisms. I think their level design has gotten better. To Mike's point. I actually think it's more seamless where, like, usually the end takes you back to the beginning or to a new cool area. And it all Flows together. Sometimes it's brutal. But I also think that's also intentional where they're like, if you go down this direction, there's no way back. You have to go all the way.

[Mike Mahardy]

In the first half hour. That like, the fact that like all those drops bring you right back to where you started. That, that as someone who needs to try every direction to explore, that annoyed me. But like, I don't know what the lesson was they were trying to teach me. I'm sure there was one.

[Dan Reichert]

The first one was definitely more annoying in that like it was longer hikes to a fast travel or to a bench or whatever. And also in a game where like you're not getting XP as you're attacking enemies and stuff. So basically like, yeah, you'll get some like shards or rosary beads or something. But ultimately like you're not getting stronger. So you're just, just like, I gotta walk 20 minutes to this thing and to what benefit? Whereas this one, it's a little quicker between them and you can attach things that'll like help you get more shards and rosary beads and stuff like that. Like I felt like I was wasting less time in this game. To me, it's the difference between like a Metroid and a Super Metroid where it's like Metroid was a great game on the nes. It established a lot of things that made that series awesome. But Super Metroid just refined it in a million ways and is a much better experience overall. Like that is. I, I feel like the mobility. I, I, the moveset of Hornet is so much more interesting. Okay, I got the cross.

[Mary]

So much more interesting.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. I got the crest that lets you do the downward pogo and all this stuff. I have, I've never equipped it because it's like I love the diagonal hunter.

[Mary]

Oh, you like the diagonal? I like the hunter, which is the spin. And I think that one is just how I've spent most of my life.

[Dan Reichert]

Or is that the reaper? Or is that, is it Reaper Reaper a bunch. And that's like, it just kind of does an arcing downwards.

[Mary]

It doesn't arcing down. It's so nice for platform.

[Dan Reichert]

It's of kind good. I've done it for some boss fights. The Reaper one's better. But like I really like, I clicked with the like the pogo stuff, like back and forth, stuff like that.

[Mary]

That one's better for damage as well. People or the, the, the pogo one you're talking about.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, you can just get a bunch of in really quick. Yeah, yeah. And I Also, I. I just like, Like, I know a lot of that. Like, the Hunter's March and biowater. Like, a lot of the stuff when you're bouncing off, like, flowers and stuff. Like, I had a little bit of a learning curve for that, but once I got it, it was like, no, actually, I like this a lot. Like, I know, like, position in midair, kind of pause a little bit, hit it again, and then once you get the claw grab thing or whatever, like, just. I love that mobility stuff later in the game. So it's. It's.

[Mary]

It's an unglab is where you shoot out the needle and then zip, zap.

[Dan Reichert]

You can use that for mobility, and you can also kind of use it as an attack. Bounce off of an enemy and you can bring that into a pogo situation or whatever.

[Mary]

So that's cool. Yeah, I've enjoyed that attack as well. There was. So the last boss fight that I got really, truly, truly, truly stuck on, it was right after Truvio. So it's kind of like the culmination of that area. You need to get these different audio reels. I forget what they're called, but you need to get three songs memorized.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, sure. Yeah.

[Mary]

And one of them in this area is behind Waves of Enemies forum in the high halls. Yeah, I want to say it's like six waves of groups of enemies, which are brutal. I think it's 10 because a solid mini boss. And then there's three more, maybe four more waves enemies, and then two. Two of that and that. Dan. I mean, I must have gone through 60, 70 lives. Like, I mean, I spent days on it. I spent days on it. I spent days on it.

[Dan Reichert]

That was the moment I probably died, like, 10 times to it. And I was like, okay, I know there's one more pale oil upgrade for my needle I can do. And like, I had googled it before. Like, how do I get the next needle upgrade? So you have to do this whole Taste of Pharloom side quest. You have to get five different things, and one of them is no problem Courier Quest. Did you do the Courier Quest where you have to run the thing back in, like, five minutes? And, like, have you done walls or anything?

[Mary]

Side quests are crazy.

[Mike Mahardy]

Have you done Sword from Ocarina?

[Mary]

Have you seen the ones where they're like, if you see you'll. You. You Your tracker, like in the Witcher. And so you see a body and it's like you hit a track button.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

You see their little, like, body gases and you have to Follow it through all these enemies. That's, like six things too. And I did the cog hearts. I mean, like, these side quests are fascinating and they're worth doing, but they are massive detours. Massive detours. They can sometimes take you hours to get these, like, little upgrades.

[Dan Reichert]

I did every one of them. I did every one because, like, it's, like, still kind of unclear how you unlock Act 3. Like, people know certain prerequisites and stuff, but, like, most guides I've seen have been like, I don't know, just do most of the town quests. And so, like, I was like, all right, every time, like, there's, like, three basic towns where there's, like a quest board and it's always like, oh, get all these, like, purple flowers. Get all these things, you know, find this merchant or whatever. I did every single one of those. And so, yeah, it's a lot of hunting down stuff.

[Mary]

And, like, I'm proud of you.

[Dan Reichert]

Go through the bellways and get eight silver bells and they just kind of randomly spawn and, like, there's so much to that shit you have to do.

[Mary]

That's really cool. I think, like, this game on the. On the good side, like, phenomenal at surprising you with really fun side quests and kind of mixing it up. There is a thing that happens, that has happened to you and me now where, like, an enemy attacks you and then they actually, like, capture you. That blew my mind. And I was like, this is. This is, like, the type of shit that makes me love video games. I did not expect this, where you.

[Dan Reichert]

Think you're dead and it's like, oh, wait, something else happened. Yeah.

[Mary]

To do this and to, like, pick me up and put me in a new location like this, and just.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's Bloodborne esque.

[Mary]

It was awesome.

[Dan Reichert]

I'd say Metal Gear Solid esque, but yeah.

[Mary]

Oh, my God, it's really awesome what they were able to pull off in this one. So anyway, I love it. I know that we haven't beaten it, which this goes against. Well, you kind of. You've rolled credits at least.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I've rolled two sets of credits now, I think. Right. Was it between? I'm not sure. But basically, I. I have beaten the final boss twice in two different ways, and I've unlocked the Act 3 situation. So I've seen two different sets of credits.

[Mary]

Yeah. I would like to challenge you to fuse this. I would like to challenge all of us to fuse it.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay. I got a number that popped up in my head right away. I think 9.5. 5.

[Mary]

Cool.

[Mike Mahardy]

Based on my 12 hours.

[Mary]

Yeah, I think it's fair. I mean, obviously you can adapt it when you play more.

[Mike Mahardy]

8.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Based on the first 12 hours.

[Mary]

We have, I want to do a 9.52. We've always been like, I've been anti half score. I can't give it, I can't keep it perfect. I've had, like, some minor foibles with it, but I think it's damn close. I think it's like one of the best games I've played in recent years. I'm obsessed with it. So I think it's a, it's a 9.5.

[Dan Reichert]

Hell yeah. There we go.

[Mary]

Damn it.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I think it's. I, I was talking to Bonk and I do think, like, if there's a Mount Rushmore of Metroidvanias, I think if you ask me right now, it's Symphony of the Night. It's Super Metroid. It is this and. Oh, boy. Really? Like princess. Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I'd say, you know, yeah. Like blood stained or Prince version. The new lost crown or whatever. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

I would swap out Prince of Persia for Axiom. Verge, probably, who actually.

[Dan Reichert]

The first, first action.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes.

[Dan Reichert]

The first one's incredible.

[Mary]

Well, the first one's so good.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, Complex is a great one. I. Without getting into stuff that we'll talk about in the next episode, some other stuff has pulled me away in a way I did not expect.

[Dan Reichert]

Same Y.

[Mike Mahardy]

So Silk song is. It's, it's great so far. I, I, I really want to keep playing it again. Every time I think I'm, like, ready to give up. Not, not give up from challenge, but, like, give up from, like, all right, there is too much frustration here. The payoffs are not worth it. I get a big enough payoff and Team Cherry again, and it feels like it was by design the whole time. Even though, again, like, I, I'm, I forgive some little annoyances and then I get the glide and all of a sudden more areas of the map open up and I feel like I'm kind of on my way and the momentum builds and I love hitting those walls. You know, I love fromsoftware stuff. I love, you know, meaningful failure. Trying to figure out what went wrong, trying to figure out what are some ways I can bolster myself, my character, rather to, to, to make things slightly easier the next time. So I, I want to keep playing this. The world's just great. Every time I enter a new biome, I'm like, God damn. Like, it's not just the Biome from an artistic direction. It's like every biome has its own specific flavor of, like, you, you can die this way. And especially considering.

[Dan Reichert]

Sorry to interrupt, but it's like, also, it all has that kind of underground bug type thing, and even within that.

[Mike Mahardy]

Kind of, like, aesthetic, such a unique, unique art direction. Yeah, I love it. I mean, right at the beginning, when you're dashing through and those birds are all flying off, it's a gorgeous.

[Mary]

Yeah, that's pretty.

[Mike Mahardy]

Every time you go through there. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

It has moments of beauty and, and comedy.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's so funny. Oh, that's funny. I want to talk about. This game is hilarious. What was it? It was. What was it? It was another. Like, it was an enemy the same size as me. It was a boss fight.

[Mary]

Lace.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes, Lace.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

And Lace said something at the beginning. It's like, you're both like, are you an enemy? Like, yeah, are you gonna, Are you gonna fight me? And then all of a sudden, like, it just escalates in a way that feels very believable because both of you, you could tell they don't want to fight. And I've only fought Lace once, so don't spoil stuff. If I'm assuming I'll run into Lace again. But, like, you're both like, wait, you have a sword, but so are you. You're holding it. You're pointing it at me. And then all of a sudden, you start fighting. You're like, no, I would have rather not fought you.

[Dan Reichert]

You.

[Mike Mahardy]

This would have been great. But now all of a sudden, like, you're in a fight. And that took. Fight took me like five tries. But, yeah, it's. The game's great. I, I, I like it a lot. And I'd still be playing through it, like, as my main thing if other stuff hadn't come up. But yeah, it's absolutely an unapologetic game I think that everybody can agree on.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. And going into it, I was as, as I think neutral as someone could be, where it's like, I was not caught up in the hype cycle. I was aware of. It's like just kind of the meme of, oh, yeah, when Silksong gonna actually come out. But, like, you know, I, like, the first one came around on. I wasn't, like, jumping at the bit like, oh, soak song. It's the biggest thing. Like, I, I went into it completely neutral and I was like, I might hate this. I might like it. And it really, really won me over in a big way. And I do consider It. Yeah. One of the best Metroidvanias I played. Yeah.

[Mary]

I also think, Mary, you should try it. So cute. Thank you.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Thank you. And thank you for sending so many people to my chat to tell me that they really wanted me to play this game because you recommended it for me.

[Dan Reichert]

I'm glad you listened. I'm just glad.

[Mary]

Yeah. That's been really. It's been the cherry on top of the Sunday of losing the same boss battle 50 times in a row in my chat is finally winning and having someone being like, like now. Aren't you glad that Dan recommended this because it's been pretty relentless. I will remember this, Dan.

[Dan Reichert]

I. I believe it. Yes.

[Mary]

I know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Let's just give this number one game in the under the radar category for game of the year.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Out of nowhere thing. Yeah.

[Mary]

Shock and awe Dan recommended category. Yeah. Honestly, you should just be prepared because it's gonna come up multiple times. I'll take a couple of game of.

[Dan Reichert]

The year more than we've done. What, five of these or something now?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

This is just gonna be.

[Mary]

This is gonna be a bloodbath. I'm.

[Mike Mahardy]

We said that.

[Mary]

Excited about it.

[Mike Mahardy]

We said that most years. But like this one, if you, if you had said this, if you had said this two months ago.

[Mary]

80S two, like there's just crazy stuff going on.

[Mike Mahardy]

Expedition 33.

[Mary]

Not that I've played these, like some of these are still under embargo. But I'm just saying, like these are games that are going to be prolific. I know they're probably going to come up. I think there's going to be like big things to talk about.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes. If you had said that two months ago, I would have been like, no, this is a boring year. But all of a sudden it's really interesting.

[Mary]

That's what I was saying.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't know.

[Mary]

Was a sleeper.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. It's like the top five or six for me. Like any order right now I have not figured out.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

It's insane.

[Mary]

You won't see the engineer that slams the Nissan Rogue's door 13,920 times. Or the corrosive chamber that simulates 15 years of life in five months. Or the Rogue heat baked for over 300 combined hours. What you will see is a vehicle that can take punch after punch and keep rolling. Nissan number one in new vehicle quality among mainstream brands by JD Power. We put it through the worst so you get its Best for J.D. power 2025 U.S. initial Quality Study Award information. Visit J.D. power.com Awards Awards based on the 2025 model year, newer models maybe show.

[Mike Mahardy]

Speaking of what's probably going to be in your top three. No, I shouldn't say that because I think, I think you're, you're liking it a decent amount. Borderlands 4 Dan, you've been playing. You and I both played it. Mary, have you played it?

[Mary]

I have, yeah. Yeah, I would love. I, I will get to it. But yeah, I've been a silk Silk song lady.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I will give it credit certainly in that it is without a doubt better than three in every way. I mean, I didn't play a ton of three. I played enough of it to be like, wow, I am annoyed by this game now. Like this, the stuff that worked in 2009, 2012 or whatever is just gotten old feeling by now in a lot of ways tonally, mechanics wise and things like that it's better like I think just the moment to moment playing it is better. Like getting the certain mobility stuff like you know, the grapple hook thing, the, the glider and things like that is good. They've toned down on a lot of the very kind of like meme Reddit humor type stuff that was extremely pervasive in three. There's still some of it.

[Mike Mahardy]

The two villains were like twin streamers.

[Dan Reichert]

Who were doing stuff insufferable. Yeah. And I know they were supposed to be like annoying, but like it's not in a good way necessarily. I don't know, like if I wanted to, like, I don't play games online often. If I wanted to play a game with three friends where we could just kind of mindlessly do and talk and just kind of catch up, this is kind of ideal because like you don't super need to. I mean the story is whatever. It's like there's very clear like, okay, here's the markers where you need to go. Everyone, like you could basically not even talk about the game and we could play together and accomplish things and talk.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. But to interrupt really quick, I should say for, I don't know, I'm sure most people know by this point, but for anybody who doesn't know, it is an actual like open world as opposed to the last three and two spin offs which were more like MMO zones. So yeah, this is an open world. There's a point you get to where the basically this, an ally tells you, hey, there's a bot, a villain in this biome. There's a villain in this biome. There's a villain in this biome. Go at it in whatever order you want, Go kill Them collect guns, do side quests to that end, and then we'll reconvene. So it's very Zelda in that sense. It's like, oh, up in the mountains you can go fight this dude. And then over in the desert you fight her. So, yeah, just to, to lay out the structure a bit. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

And. But then it's like, you know, when you boil it down, it is just a lot of like shooting at everything you see. And then between it, you kind of go around to the battlefield and there's a million guns laying around and you're like, all right, these are green arrows. Oh, that one's got acid, this one's got shock.

[Mary]

I love those green arrows. That's how you know when it's.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, it's. But it's like, it's not really interesting because there's, you know, you got shields, you got your guns, you've got your grenades, you've got all these different things and it's like, it's just a lot of looking at a bunch of numbers. And then like when you level up, you go to your skill tree and stuff and it's like, all right, this one does a plus 0.025% of this when I reload. And it's just like, okay, I'll get this ability. I don't know if it's gonna, like, if I will feel it need different about, you know, like, I don't know if I'll notice this, you know, going forward where it's like the stuff in like Hollow Knight and stuff to bring up Soak Song is that like you get something and it's like, oh, things are different now. Okay. I need to rethink where I can get to and everything. And very, very different games, obviously. But like, I don't know, just the very incremental upgrade level up type stuff is not super satisfying to me. I like it in Borderlands when there's more gimmicky weapons where it's like this one shoots three spinning rockets that all have corrosive damage and stuff like that. But like, I don't know, in the first several hours of this game, it's a lot of like this assault rifle does a little bit more damage and has a little slower fire rate. Okay, sure, whatever.

[Mary]

So the same, it's.

[Dan Reichert]

It is very, very borderline.

[Mary]

Do they have any like, stupid guns though? Like ones that like, you know, shoot out grenades that explode and then when the gun runs out of bullets, it becomes a grenade and you throw it. You know what I Mean, that's kind of known for that.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, they had the whole like different like, gun brands and stuff and like all these guns, instead of reloading, you throw it and they blow up and you, you know, make a new one or whatever.

[Mary]

Yeah, my memory with it where I was like, this is a crazy gun. These guys are crazy. You're not allowed to do this. They would do it. They broke the gun rules.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I'm still, I would say early on and like most of them have just been like assault rifles and SMGs and sniper rifles and pistols that are like different stats of like, I'm sure those crazier guns are out there. I haven't seen them yet. And I'll just say that, like nothing about the game, like, in the face of like right now is one of the craziest times of like there are like five or six different games I have downloaded and, or I have started playing and ones that are doing crazy awesome stuff that I'm like, loving or whatever. Borderlands 4 is, is absolutely not a priority for me to go back and play more of right now. It is low, low, low on the list and face everything else I'm playing. So I, I don't know if I'll go back to it. I, I, you know, I, hey, kudos to them. It's better than three for sure. I'm sure fans of Borderlands that just kind of like one excuse to shoot stuff and talk to their friends, it'll be great for that. It's not. Yeah, I don't know. I, I don't know if I'll play more of it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, it's, I, I, I will say I feel like I did start getting a lot of guns that actually felt less like stat upgrades and more like functional changes. I will say I do think it backloads a lot of them. I think you, you start getting that the game really wants you to reach max level cap and then start doing endgame stuff, which three did too. And I think Three's endgame was actually really good. I played three a lot. I, I, I couldn't stomach any of the story either. I just kind of turned that off and listened to podcasts until I got to Endgame. And I thought the end game was great in that game, but I, I think it's funny because this game would, now that Borderlands is open world, it's like, oh, this feels like it could have happened six years ago.

[Dan Reichert]

It's still, that's the thing, it's still like they've made movements to make it feel more modern, but it still feels like old.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes. I will say, I still think I will. I will put Borderlands 3 and this up there with like destiny in terms of some of the best feeling shooters on controllers, I think this feels incredible, which is no easy task. But like, I will also say, yeah, a lot of the abilities are absolutely like, I like. You look at Path of Exile two, you look at even Diablo four, I'm trying to think of other loot shooter games. Like, I think Remnant two did a really good job of those incremental upgrades. Still, you notice the difference. Borderlands 4, I think there's a. There's like every five levels you notice a slight difference because there's some really cool synergies. I played the Grava. What's her name? Harlow. The Grava. She uses like a gravity bomb. I was using her gravity bomb. They each have three skill trees, so there's really cool synergies between some of those skill trees. But you do have to go through some very minor stat bumps. And I say bumps like, like there.

[Dan Reichert]

Will be like five levels in a row where it's not exciting to level up. All right. I'm just trying to get to the next, like, layer.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. And obviously if you took your character at level one and then you took your character at level 50 and you compare them, you're like, oh, I built a completely new character. But it's. It. It's so seldom does feel like you're making a major bump, which Diablo 4, when it first released, had that problem as well. Then they revamped it and now. And I've Talked about Diablo 4, I think at some point when things die down, we should all play that game together because I think they did some really interesting stuff to make those upgrades feel impactful and actually changing how your character worked. And I do think Borderlands 4 takes over a bit too long to get to those. I agree wholeheartedly with that. I think the world's interesting as it can be. I like the villains. You're Cha Dan. How far are you? Out of curiosity?

[Dan Reichert]

Less than five hours, I would say.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, so I will say I think the game's story, although the story I. I don't love, it's like basically you've got the timekeeper as the ultimate boss in the city in the center of the map.

[Dan Reichert]

Map.

[Mike Mahardy]

You're also hunting down these three, like his three lieutenants around the map. You start to pursue each of them. And I actually think the game does some cool things story wise with like, oh, this this boss also might not be super on board with some of the villains doing and might also be fomenting its own rebellion. So it does cool stuff like that to shake up the pacing a bit. Not enough. Again, I don't think that's going to be like a thing to pull you through the game, but, but yeah, it, it, I think it did improve a lot on three for sure. I would actually argue the end game kind of took a step back as someone who played a lot of three endgame like because I'm a weirdo. So yeah, I, I, I'm not going to play another, I'm not going to play another hour of this game for a while. I do want to try other characters at some point maybe, but, but yeah, it's, you know, like if, if you didn't put a lot of hours into that already then Silksong and we've got Yote coming up. We've got Octopath Traveler, we've got a lot coming up. So it's Hades 2 in like three days from now if you're listening to this episode.

[Mary]

So some big bangers coming out.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Some heavy hitters. So it, it's, I, I think Borderlands 4 is commendable for a lot of the improvements it made, but it's also like I, I don't think it's going to change your mind on Borderlands.

[Dan Reichert]

No, definitely not.

[Mike Mahardy]

So yeah, I'm, I, I totally get that for sure.

[Mary]

I just have such a strong history with Borderlands. Like I've always loved their wacky antics and their silly guns and like running around not caring. I think like you were saying, Dan, it's friend slop and it to a degree it might be the originators of Friend Slop because I never took that game seriously and they didn't take themselves seriously. Remember how many times they would have like a boss who would like like act so tough and then like self implode with one bullet. Like they were funny. That game is cheeky.

[Dan Reichert]

But yeah, tonally they didn't take it seriously. But like I think underneath that there were really great kind of mechanics and the different builds you could make and like it didn't, the, the humor and the tone was not serious. But as a co op game it was fantastic. Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah, I agree. I'm still tempted. I, I love, love stuff like that and it is like a playful world so I'd like to get into it. It's, it's just a really challenging time. How dare all these games come out.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I guess I Is there any. If there's no other major thing people want to talk about, I do think. I know we have a few other ones we want to, like, hit quickly, I think.

[Mary]

Sure.

[Dan Reichert]

Next episode, there's some embargo stuff that'll lift that one we can kind of go into.

[Mike Mahardy]

Next episode will be Hades 2. Next episode Yote, I think, will be out by that point. I think so, yeah. So there'll be a lot to say about these things. But, Mary, you and I both, I believe, dabbled with Shinobi because Dan was going hard on recommending it, and I did. Again, same thing. I literally played it. I was playing that interchangeably with Silksong at first, and Dan, I was messaging you. I was like, holy shit, Shinobi rules. Like, right off the bat, like, yeah. I've only played two hours of it and it already hooked me. It feels amazing. It. Like, it's so good at onboarding you with skills you have at your disposal and then just kind of letting you run wild. And all of a sudden, you have this ability that just literally you dart to everybody on the screen and murder them if you've played well enough up to that point.

[Dan Reichert]

And that doesn't stop. I mean, the entire game, it's just one thing after another. Like, oh, shit, that's awesome. Oh, shit, that's awesome.

[Mike Mahardy]

Literally, the literal only reason I stopped stopped is because I. There's no way you can just dabble with Silksong. You need to go all in. So Shinobi is number. Outside of this other stuff I'm playing, I'd say Silk Song is number one on my backlog. Shinobi is right behind it. But, like, Shinobi felt like such a breath of fresh air from Silksong in a way that, again, apples and oranges, they're not going for the same thing.

[Dan Reichert]

You were the one in power in Shinobi in Silk Song.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's a power fantasy for sure. There's some challenge for sure, don't get me wrong. But, like, yeah, yeah. And I'm still wrapping my head around how the game's structured. To me, it feels like a Metroidvania divided into different zones.

[Dan Reichert]

Do you ever play Order of Ecclesia?

[Mike Mahardy]

The Castlevania?

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. So that was different than standard Castlevania in that instead of one giant map, it was like little sectioned off maps. So it's like Metroidvanias, but in tiny little chunks.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

That are not necessarily connected by hallways and stuff like that. So it. It's like Order of Ecclesia basically for sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

So now I'm like, oh man, I really want to dig into Shinobi and fully immerse myself in that. And I also want to do with Silksong and there's such different games. I gotta. I will do that for both of them before game of the year because Shinobi already is speaking my language on many levels. The. The. The platforming feels great. The platforming itself is very compelling. The platforming, it strikes that really good balance between action reactive platforming and puzzle solving platforming. So I'm already like, I really want to know how to open that trapdoor. Like it, it's got its hooks in me and I would be playing that fully if it weren't for everything else going on. But like, yeah, it also just like, like breakneck pace does not let off the breaks in the first two hours. The whole time. I'm assuming it probably won't the whole time. I've never played it. I don't think I've played. I've touched a Shinobi game before.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't think I have. Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Really good.

[Mary]

So that's my first. I'm enjoying it too. It is for me very difficult to go back and forth between this and Silk Song because the moves are very different.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's like between Warfare and Willy Wonka and that show Chocolate Factory.

[Mary]

It's. I am like, I'm dashing when I mean to be. Yeah. Attacking. I'm very confused. So I don't like doing that. But in the three hours that I've spent with it, I've really enjoyed. Visually, this game is stunning. I absolutely love. I got a knee up from a roll.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Oh, that's great.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And it, it looks so good. It looks so good that I use it even if it's not appropriate because I'm like, check out how good this looks.

[Dan Reichert]

Like you just launch them up in the air, jump up.

[Mary]

You can keep them up in the air. You slamming them down using a jump and then a heavy attack down. Very fun. Super effective. And again like doing. Using the environment. So knocking them off cliffs, knocking them into spikes like. Oh. Hitting barrels that then explode at them. Juicy. Super fun. I'm loving that aspect of it. I love that there are these skulls in areas that if you find them, you basically have to kill everything in that space. Those unlike special medallions I think that give you. You other things.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I do really like all these fun pieces that they've put into every level so that you're not just getting through the Level you're kind of exploring and experimenting and finding little challenges everywhere. Some of them are platforming, some of them are combat, which is like my DNA. Like, that is my core of like, yes, you're gonna make me happy. My biggest issue so far has just been every reward is like, here's six new moves. And I'm like, okay, I haven't memorized the last 40. I don't know if I can handle anymore.

[Mike Mahardy]

And they just keep.

[Mary]

They keep giving me more to memorize. And so, like, there was this time where they had given me this move. There's like water based, fire based, electric based moves. Avatar using your bumpers. You have to use left and right bumper.

[Dan Reichert]

And then the stuff. Yeah.

[Mary]

And then the button of the element that you're looking for. And I kept accidentally, like, you know, pressing water when I wanted. Fire, whatever. And then like, like, not even, like 10 minutes later, they were like, and now an alt, which is like your left trigger and your right trigger. And I was like, I just learned this one.

[Mike Mahardy]

And I just learned how to breathe a fireball now.

[Mary]

Yeah, give me a second.

[Mike Mahardy]

Let me enjoy this.

[Mary]

Have you done the giant face boss? He looks like Omatech or whatever. And he keeps saying, like, show me what you got now.

[Dan Reichert]

I must have. I think I.

[Mary]

He's a face. He's a face on a wall. He's a face on a wall and he spits balls out of his mouth.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes, yes, yes, I did do that. Yes. I. Yes.

[Mary]

Okay. And he. He literally just says, like, show me your power. You're about to see true power. He's so annoying. Anyway, I can't tell you many times I could have easily gotten through this boss much faster, but every once in a while, I would do this boss and I would be like, right, I want to do the fire. And then. And then I'd get attacked by lightning. And I was like, no, you have to be faster. I have to basically, before I get into a boss fight, memorize which moves I want on which buttons and practice them. Because in real time, in these boss fights, I was actually getting overwhelmed with which moves I wanted and which buttons resulted in the moves that I wanted. And so that was a bit frustrating for me. Other than that, I think I'm just, like, loving this game. And I think it's a funny criticism to be like, you're giving me too many moves.

[Mike Mahardy]

But I'm just pacing to that too. It's like, I've already resigned myself. I'm probably going to restart this game when I go back. I have no qualms with that because I'm. The first couple hours were so fun to begin with. I don't mind. But, yeah, it's. It's one of those things where it's. It's okay. I just learned how to breathe a fireball, and now I learn how to attack everybody on screen. It's good. I can wrap my head around that for another, you know, stage or two or screen or two, rather. But then now it's showing you how to. I will also say the. The way you can attack and dodge in one midair role. Now. I want every fucking game to have that, including fromsoft. Like, that's one of those things you wish you could do in, like, Elden Ring, but you can't. It feels like a quality of life dodge. It's. It's really good. This game feels so fucking good.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

I've already resigned myself to starting over, Mary, because, like, I agree, it does throw shit at you really quickly. And it's the polar opposite of Silksong, where Silksong's like, here's one thing. Master this over an hour before you get a new thing. Really, a lot of frustration, a lot of challenge, a lot of, like, you're. It's going to require some resolve on your part, some dedication, where Shinobi's like, all right, we trust that you know how to fucking eliminate these guys.

[Mary]

Two medallions. Here's six moves. We're so proud of you. We love you. It's such a power office. I've been like eight hours in a boss, and it's like, you get nothing. We didn't even put anything here. We hate you.

[Mike Mahardy]

Like drinks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

They're like. There's complete opposite types of development studios. Like, they just want to harm you. And Shinobi is constantly giving me gifts, and I'm like, my pockets are full. I don't want anything else. Grandma, it's awesome. Leave me alone.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's great. It's. I love it for it.

[Dan Reichert]

If somebody's having, like. If Silksong is not clicking for someone and it's just too brutal or whatever, I cannot imagine a better palate cleanser than going to shinobi. All right.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Some similar ish, you know, like, 2D kind of exploring types of. But, like, you are the one killing everything in Shinobi.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yep. It's Barb and Heimer, but with ninjas and bugs. Yeah.

[Mary]

That's so sweet. That's good. That's a really good comparison. I think they're Both. Both hard, too. Like, I. I have been tested in Shinobi. I just think it's more graceful. It's kinder. It's like not putting. It's not giving me anything that I can't figure out. There are times in Hollow Knight where I'm like, it's impossible. It can't be done. They've obviously made this game impossible just to fuck with me.

[Mike Mahardy]

Are you just becoming John Mulaney talking about that game? Did anybody else hear that?

[Mary]

It can't be done.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's impossible. That can't be done.

[Mary]

It's impossible.

[Mike Mahardy]

I've got a nice suit that's being tailored. I got to go pick it up. That was John Lovett's. More than John Mulaney.

[Mary]

I did. In a way. It depends on how much cocaine you give them.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm a no. I'm clean now these days, girl. Yeah, but I Shinobi Dan, per your recommendation, it immediately was like, yeah, this game rules.

[Mary]

It's good. I kind of want to play more.

[Mike Mahardy]

Of it up after those, like, first two hours. Like, just keep it rolling.

[Dan Reichert]

Honestly, it only gets better.

[Mary]

I also think, like, for a long plane ride. Personally, don't know if Hollow Knight is going to be that for me because I could see myself getting really frustrating.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's going to make the plane ride seem way longer.

[Mary]

Yeah. Like a jail. Whereas I think Shinobi is going to be like, ah, I have eight hours to enjoy this universe and up. Like, that is going to be a nice palette cleanser for me. So I think that is what I'm going to be playing more of. I've just been trying to get. I think I'm close, Dan, but I, I, I don't actually. I have not looked up, like, where I'm at, but I am at. Yeah, I'm at. Well, now. I don't know if I can say.

[Dan Reichert]

It on Silksong or Shinobi.

[Mary]

Silk song.

[Dan Reichert]

I. I mean, we've been spoiling.

[Mike Mahardy]

We already spoiled a bit.

[Dan Reichert]

That.

[Mary]

Yeah, right. I'm at the.

[Dan Reichert]

I'm at Lace this second time.

[Mary]

Second time.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, damn it.

[Mary]

It's what I said. That's why I try not to say anything.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, you were worried about me.

[Mary]

It's the one thing, the one thing you said you didn't want to know.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's.

[Mary]

Well, I ran. Well, I ran into her again and she's still pissed.

[Dan Reichert]

So I assume you not seen credits at all yet, right?

[Mary]

No, I don't think so.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay. Okay.

[Mary]

Can you be do credits without spoiler?

[Dan Reichert]

No. Yeah, I mean, I think I know what you were going to ask. And like, yes, you can see credits and then have another like. I'll tell you this, I. I got credits around 32 hours. I didn't see the Act 3 slide until 40 hours.

[Mary]

Right. Did you get. And there are there like same thing credits at that.

[Mike Mahardy]

At that point, if you're not. Not if you didn't finish the game.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, some games do that and have like a bonus, you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Right. But it's Act 3. It's not epilogue.

[Dan Reichert]

Act 3 is basically an epilogue.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm on to Team Cherry. I don't think they know what they're doing. I think they're just a bunch of rookies who are just like, oh, let's make.

[Dan Reichert]

Let's make things hard and frustrating. Oh, what if we roll credits here?

[Mary]

Oh, oh. Why are you so mad?

[Dan Reichert]

I don't know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Just roll credits at the end like a normal boy way.

[Dan Reichert]

It's the encore.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, that's better. Call it an encore. That'd be awesome. You want to do some talk about emails?

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I love the concept of emails. Yeah, sweet.

[Mary]

Reading them, thinking about them. You won't see the engineer that slams the Nissan Rogue's door 13,920 times or the corrosive chamber that simulates 15 years of life in five months. Or the Rogue heat baked for over 300 combined hours. What you will see is a vehicle that can take punch after punch and keep rolling. Nissan number one in new vehicle quality among mainstream brands by JD Power. We put it through the worst so you get its best for J.D. power 2025 U.S. initial Quality Study Award information, visit J.D. power.com Awards Awards based on 2025 model year. Newer models may be shown.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, as always, you can write into firescapecastmail.com for questions, comments, concerns. We have quite a few responses from last episode. Dan had mentioned that he was trying to figure out if he just. Apparently it keeps him up at night thinking about if he was transported back to a castle in the middle ages and he was immediately going to be killed if he. But what is a skill we.

[Mary]

We have to help this simple man that can.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, he could castle times what is a skill. He could immediately show them that we have knowledge of that would like paint him as a wizard or some sort to them so they spare him. So we got a few of those and then we have some other questions. So thank you for writing in, but keep those questions coming. They're good enough. I'll put them in the show if they're not into the bin you go.

[Mary]

This is like the Silk song of email reading.

[Dan Reichert]

Yes.

[Mary]

We won't even acknowledge your work.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes.

[Mary]

You get nothing.

[Mike Mahardy]

You stole fizzy lifting drinks. Okay, this one's from References.

[Mary]

He's into it tonight.

[Mike Mahardy]

Alex in Bendigo. Not into the Bendigo. He's written from Bendigo. We gotta end this podcast on the white sheet. Black letters unfold. We must read them. I don't even know what he's doing, hot or cold. Mary, do you want to read the first one from Alex?

[Mary]

I don't understand what that impression was.

[Dan Reichert]

No.

[Mary]

Mike demanded we all write in.

[Mike Mahardy]

I did not demand. I think I politely requested.

[Mary]

Are you. What are you mad at? I'm just reading this guy's Alex from Bendigo. Hendigo, doing what he's told. Demanded that we all write in. With what you could do in castle times, Mike, your three most prominent elements. Elements are stupid voices. You just did one stupid. The fact that you're four foot nine and that you were voted sexiest mandolin player by Mandolin Player Monthly magazine in 2023. You will be a court jester.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm fine with that. I'd be. I'd be trying to make him laugh, telling Scarborough Fair that's now you're doing Bob Dylan and I'm the weird one.

[Mary]

No, I mean. But that's like in like a weird jester voice.

[Mike Mahardy]

If you're traveling in a north country fair where the weight is heavy or the bowline.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, Chalamet.

[Mike Mahardy]

Who remember me? Who won?

[Dan Reichert]

Who lives there?

[Mike Mahardy]

For she was once a true love of mine. Mary, continue.

[Mary]

All right, you live. Mary, Given the opening of last episode, it's very clear you're the strongest talent.

[Mike Mahardy]

Is not what he wrote.

[Mary]

I think he said you're the strongest talent is what I'm reading. It's very clear. Your strongest talent is one of the most vicious acid tongues to ever grace humanity. The level of vitriol, spite and shame you can vomit out is terrifying and commendable. You would become the pope in less than three days.

[Dan Reichert]

Getting political popes back then like ascend via fear.

[Mary]

Hello.

[Mike Mahardy]

I don't know. Now we got a Chicago on in the. In the big seat. I don't know how he got there. Really. I don't pay attention.

[Dan Reichert]

Billy. What's the guy's name?

[Mike Mahardy]

Billy Corey.

[Mary]

I do believe that historically were super kind.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, I think the popes were pretty. Be could be authoritarian.

[Dan Reichert]

There was a Palpatine pope that looked like the Star wars emperor.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes, that's where that's where George Lucas got the idea.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, that's right.

[Mary]

Yeah. So I think that's really fair. I appreciate that. Thank you, Alex. Dan, your only hope is that Minati is transferred back with you to act as a comparison point so you might have any chance of seeming useful. You are still weirder.

[Dan Reichert]

I do genuinely disagree with you.

[Mary]

He gave you nothing.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, I honestly. That's fair, I think. I take no offense to that. I don't know what I would have to offer Minati. I think Minati would do all right to a certain. I think he could sing and he could cook meat and stuff. I do think Minati might be able to do better than me in castle times because he like text in a lot of castle times fiction. You know, like Lord of the Rings and stuff.

[Mary]

Stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I'm not a cast times guy. Zelda doesn't really work.

[Mary]

Maybe both of you with your powers combined though, you could have some kind of fun two person act on stage or something.

[Dan Reichert]

Like a. Like a podcast without my who's on.

[Mary]

First type situation in castle times.

[Dan Reichert]

You know, play off each other well. But yeah, I don't know if the castle people are gonna like it.

[Mary]

Without all your gaming knowledge. I just don't understand what the. Do we talk about what material you have? You're like, what about this gruel? Yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear Mike Minati's bit on gruel and like, sleeping on straw.

[Mike Mahardy]

I would just tell them now. I would just tell them. Like, I would pretend I'm a fortune teller. Like, I would just tell them, oh, Dave Grohl has a secret baby like that. That's simple enough to tell them.

[Dan Reichert]

They're not gonna live long enough to like, what were castle times? They're not gonna live long enough to know about Dave Grohl. Roll to see that you're right.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, so the battle of Hastings will be won.

[Dan Reichert]

No eclipses or something. You know, it's true.

[Mary]

You have to go way deeper. The stars are actually bugs. And if you don't believe in God enough, who is also me, they will come down and kill you.

[Mike Mahardy]

You could probably figure out a way to frame yourself as God.

[Mary]

I think so. I think I'd get away with it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Ace Ventura did it.

[Mary]

I'd either do it or try it.

[Mike Mahardy]

In dead man's chest.

[Mary]

I think, like, I would go for broke. Right. I'm not there to live a life of like, stirring the soup. That's just not who I was born to be. So I'll go all in and Say I actually am an ethereal being and I will smite anyone who touches me or doesn't feed me and clothe me and bathe me and give me really good jewels and stuff and then hope it works out.

[Mike Mahardy]

Easy for you to say. You got boobs. You could just. I know they'll, they'll. They'll be marching that.

[Mary]

They didn't have them back in castle times yet.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, no, they're like.

[Mary]

They're so enamored by the first.

[Mike Mahardy]

They've been driving a bronco around. All of a sudden a Range Rover shows up.

[Mary]

Take a look at these castle boys.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, castle boys. They put their spears down immediately.

[Dan Reichert]

I would hope for is being just a well liked guy about town. I think that's it. I think I'm a friendly fella. I think I get along with folks and I think that.

[Mary]

What do you do for a living?

[Dan Reichert]

Killing me. Oh, that.

[Mike Mahardy]

I have no answer, Dan. Just walking around asking people if doordash delivers to the castle.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Just hope that people invite me over for dinner and stuff.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

The best I could hope for.

[Mary]

Someone's been milking the cows in the dead of night and it's been you because you don't have a job and you don't know how to. To consume any food anymore. So you've just been.

[Dan Reichert]

And they'd ask like. Or I'd be like, oh, is there anything I can do to help in exchange for this dinner? And then they'd tell me something, I'd be like, I don't know how to do that.

[Mary]

Do you have any media I could review?

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, get out of here. Microphones. What can I play? Yeah.

[Mary]

Thank you, Alex.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, Dan, this one is from Paul in Middle George, Georgia.

[Dan Reichert]

I'm reading this.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, sorry.

[Mary]

Okay, you gotta tell him what to do.

[Dan Reichert]

Read it. Hey. Hey, guys. If Dan were to suddenly find himself in castle times. I think Dan knows enough about the lingo and how the sausage is made to be able to invent wrestling. Just find an investor, put a troupe together, bing, bang, boom. Mike could probably bullshit his way into becoming like a fence or something.

[Mary]

A fence.

[Dan Reichert]

Mary would be burned at the stage mistake for being too intelligent a witch.

[Mary]

I'm offended and appreciative.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, that. What a what? Like a compliment slash insult.

[Mary]

I mean, back then, I do think it happened a lot and I do think that is a part of which stuff. Well, my original plan of saying. I'm just going to say I'm a God and tell people I'll smite them if they don't give me jewels and food. It's going to go two ways. One is they're going to be afraid of me and they're going to do what I say. And the other one is that they're going to burn me at the stake. So I think I do have like a 50, 50 chance.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I like what I think what Paul is saying here is maybe one of the better actual things I could do, which is just like take my knowledge of how like the carny origins of wrestling and apply it to like, it's a pretty timeless thing. You know, just have like plants in the audience and be like, nobody can beat my strong man. And then have a plant that, you know, they pay on the. To watch the fight and everything. Like, I, yeah, I, I think I could invent wrestling hundreds of years before.

[Mary]

Or at the very minimum, you could probably like just set up matches that actually are fake and then profit off of the money that people bet because you know who's going to win.

[Dan Reichert]

Let's think. People thought it was real until like the mid-90s, basically. Like imagine the 1400s or whatever. Like it'd be the easiest marks in the world.

[Mary]

World. Those stupid idiots. They don't even have electricity yet. Imagine what you could do with wrestlers that say that they got hurt. Amazing.

[Dan Reichert]

They don't know work from a shoot back then.

[Mike Mahardy]

I still don't.

[Mary]

And there I am burned at the stake.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, you're. You're screaming, your flesh is burning off.

[Mary]

And I'm the earth revolves around.

[Mike Mahardy]

She's gonna up. I would just be fucking silver tonging my way into that snatch. Snatch.

[Dan Reichert]

Whoa.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm gonna bullshit my way into that snatch. Say that to the queen. See how that goes down.

[Mary]

Do you think it's possible that we all die horrible deaths because Mike's trying to bang the queen? I think I'm a God. And Dan gets him over his head. Trying to set up wrestling matches.

[Mike Mahardy]

We'd all go out the same. We'd die the way we lived.

[Mary]

Truly.

[Mike Mahardy]

Wrestling matches. Cuddling us and burning.

[Mary]

I wrestled the fire and I lost.

[Mike Mahardy]

I wrestled deck clit and I won. No, that's gross. That's the grossest thing I've said in a while.

[Dan Reichert]

Got a clean nicely.

[Mike Mahardy]

I felt weird about it as I was coming out. I realized to my credit, I realized as it was coming out of my mouth that it was gross.

[Dan Reichert]

I wish my soundboard still worked. I'd be using that. Be really good.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, I'm going to read the. Thank you, Paul from Middle Georgia. I'm going to read this one from Max from Markham, Ontario. Hello Firescape cast crew. I did not own an original Switch and bought the Switch 2 on launch day after finally being in a of years couple comfortable financial spot. Currently going through both the back catalog of games and recently picked up Mario plus Rabbids Kingdom Battle on sale awesome game and the characters in the Overworld run like some of the people I just saw in the movie Weapons. Hoping everyone on the podcast has seen this for the upcoming question. We definitely have this run could also be described as the Naruto Run. I guess I haven't seen the show. My question after seeing this is if someone real or fictional was cursed to hunt you like they do in Weapons, who would be the most terrifying? My first thought was if the Kool Aid man was chasing me with his arms behind his back, eyes blank, trying everything in his power to kill me, I would probably lose my immediately. Anywho Max from Markham, Ontario, Canada.

[Dan Reichert]

Bruce Scanlon.

[Mary]

He's the sweetest boy in the world.

[Dan Reichert]

That's the thing. That's that's exactly why we're like if suddenly Drew Scanlon was weapon style running at me it would be such a different like Drew was just so nice and calm and composed. Yeah so if he was like wild eyed and bleeding and sprinting at me trying to something was something was terribly wrong for me.

[Mary]

I'd be like drew, you need a doctor. Come here. I have a band aid. And then he would snap my neck.

[Mike Mahardy]

I would never he pummels your skull with his skull.

[Mary]

He would trick me immediately. I would never, I would never assume anything bad could happen.

[Mike Mahardy]

He could fly planes. Imagine him doing that from a plane like.

[Mary]

With his hands behind his back.

[Dan Reichert]

I think we'd see his face before we die.

[Mike Mahardy]

He's just flying at you like a plane. I would same same reason it would Jake Decker would terrify me such a like even headed calm cool collected dude one of my best friends. Like if he was coming at me like that I'd that'd be weird. Weird I guess my dad, my mom, anybody close to me.

[Mary]

People close to you.

[Dan Reichert]

I if, if my dad was running I would knew something was terrible in.

[Mike Mahardy]

This just running let leave alone his.

[Dan Reichert]

Arms in an airplane at one point.

[Mary]

Floodlights connected to his feet they're just dragging through electrical cords.

[Dan Reichert]

I I did ask him one point like I was like hey when was the last time you ran? And he was like I think that maybe I ran to my car while it was raining once like 20 years ago. Like yeah he just he doesn't move quickly.

[Mary]

Probably 1989.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, he doesn't move quickly.

[Mary]

No, I. Because one of the scariest movies I ever saw. Mike and I talked about this a lot was it follows. I. I think some of that was the randomness of like a random person that just kind of freaks you out. I do think that just a weird looking lady or dude that's naked would scare the out of me.

[Dan Reichert]

Is a multiplier for.

[Mary]

Yeah, it would just freak me out. And I think that was something in. That was a theme in that show. Another one was because it was like, yeah, like people. You. I. Well, the plot was kind of like people you had slept with were like the next in line. But I mean, I bet if you're like exes were running at you, that would freak the crap out of me. Not just because of like, why are you running at me? But also like, what are you doing here? I haven't seen you in 10 years. And I don't want to like, I don't want my exes running at me for any reason ever.

[Dan Reichert]

I like, just yesterday had a moment of I was just being very self conscious about like, I walk every day, like around the neighborhood and stuff. And at one point yesterday I found myself, myself like walking at about the same pace as this woman, but I was behind her. And so I was like, probably, you know, 50ft behind her or whatever. And I was like, all right. I just kind of feel awkward, like, just kind of walking. Yeah, you got the same pace. So like I crossed over to the other side of the street just to be like, hey, just don't want you to think I'm following you or whatever. And then like she turned and it was where I was going too. And I was like, well, I'm trying to get back to my house, so I have to go that way. And so like, here I am again. I turned and then were like three different turns where it's like, God damn it, this is where I'm going. And like, how do you make it like. I just want to make it very clear I'm not following you. Like, is that weirder to say that?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes, yes. Yeah, she's just walking in her neighborhood and this man.

[Dan Reichert]

But I was strolling behind.

[Mary]

I just wanted to show you that I don't have a gun. No big deal. I'm not following you.

[Mike Mahardy]

I don't have a weapon.

[Mary]

Look in my pocket turns where it's.

[Dan Reichert]

Like, I was feeling weird about it and I was sure she was like, is this guy following me? And I, I was like, I just. How do I make it? Do I go through the woods? Do I get off the path?

[Mike Mahardy]

You know that is the most Tim Robinson as shit. You go into the woods because you can't deal with the social climate complications of this encounter. Yeah, yeah. There's probably some celebrity that would scare me more if they were doing this than anybody else.

[Mary]

There's a tick tock about what you're doing Dan, which is like you're passing a girl in the woods on a hike. How do you do it so that it's not scary because you're both alone in the woods and she's a girl.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

They're all pretty silly but generally the joke is that you like vogue or do something where she's like oh good, you're an ally. Like oh, you're one of us. Yeah, you like my go to.

[Dan Reichert]

It's like that works if you were at a pace faster than the person. So like I've got like my AirPods in and I'll just look straightforward and like as I'm doing the pass like once you're kind of like, like right next to each other. I was just kind of like turn. Just do a little like hey friendly like smile and wave and then you just keep going along on your way or like oh, good evening or something like that. That's probably a good way to do it.

[Mary]

I think it's a nice thing to do. But I think the ultimate thing I just want to commend you for is I think the nicest thing is to give them space. And so the fact that you cross the street without like really even thinking it is a wonderful. That is what I would recommend for most people which is like this isn't about you at all. All. Sometimes people are like, but I didn't do anything and I, you know, I would never hurt anyone. It's like that's actually not what it's about.

[Dan Reichert]

But they don't know that. They just know that there's some guy they don't know.

[Mary]

Unfortunately women carry this burden. This has happened to me so many times where like it's like late at night I carry keys in my hand because it there we have like a burden that we bear. So it is, it is not on who you are at all as a person. The idea that you're just like I should just cross the street and give them much more space. Space is the best move. Just give them more space. Because it kind of just freaks a girl out when there's men in close Proximity. And they're alone. That's just totally.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Like the woods and stuff. Yeah.

[Mary]

That was the golden move, my dude.

[Dan Reichert]

Excellent. Okay.

[Mary]

That's good to hear. Yeah. Or kill them, you know, because, like, you gotta.

[Dan Reichert]

After a while, it's the same thing every time, you know, Like.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Doing that. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the same screams. It's the same every time. Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah. I'm bored.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. I'm out of places to bury. Bury the bodies.

[Mary]

Give me a challenge.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Not good at stealth, Mike.

[Mary]

What are you afraid of?

[Mike Mahardy]

I think chorus Leechman would be weird. Like, young Chlorus Leechman, though. Like, is that Cloris Leechman? But looking good.

[Dan Reichert]

No Chorus Leechman because of the norm McDonald Bob Saget Roach.

[Mike Mahardy]

Ro. No, I knew. I. That's a big part of why I know her.

[Dan Reichert]

That's mainly why I know her. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

But, yeah, there's like, I guess the.

[Mary]

Tallest woman in the world. That would freak me out.

[Mike Mahardy]

Albert Finney would be weird, too.

[Mary]

Or the tallest man. Tall people are scary.

[Mike Mahardy]

Tall people do creep me out. I've told Will Car this before.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I think Jason Alexander.

[Mike Mahardy]

Jason Alexander. Why am I blanking?

[Dan Reichert]

Castanza.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah, that would be weird.

[Dan Reichert]

Is that George? Is that George Costanza?

[Mary]

And then why is he running at me?

[Mike Mahardy]

It would be someone you have to take a second to recognize.

[Mary]

Eyes.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. That's why I was thinking, like, Helen Mirin. Hideo Kojima. Yeah. Although Minnesota. There he goes again. This probably has something to do with his next game.

[Mary]

Like Charlie from It's Always Sunny. And at first you're like, dan's gonna love it. And then you're like, I'm gonna die.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. But, yeah, no, my family would be weird. Thank you, Max from Markham, Ontario. Mary, do you want to read this one from Christian?

[Mary]

Echo the community when saying that. Very much appreciate it. Appreciate all three of you and that you share your time and selves with us. You three are all wonderful, truly caring and a joy.

[Mike Mahardy]

Is this a plant I just wrote? No, I.

[Mary]

Thank you, Christian. I, I, I don't believe it. That's awesome. Thank you for saying that question. We are expecting our first child in January and have found deciding on baby names to be an experience. We quickly discovered some lingering feelings with those whom have passed through our lives. When you reject name after name as we can't name our child after that person or names that just give the it. Are there any names you can't imagine ever naming your own theoretical child? Do you think you'd find boy or Girl names harder. Girl names are much easier for us. And the second question?

[Mike Mahardy]

Maybe leave. Oh, yeah, no, sorry.

[Mary]

Do you want to start with one and then we'll go to the second one?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, yeah. They're very different.

[Mary]

All right, I'll go back to it. Let's not. We'll knock one out. Thank you, Christian. I'll come back.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, I guess we don't have kids, but we have pets, and so that's kind of.

[Mary]

Well, no, like, so easy.

[Dan Reichert]

We talk dogs and cats. You can just name them weird things. And, like, with people, it's got to be like, you just name them food.

[Mary]

How easy it is to name a dog corn dog, and, like, call it a life. You can't name a child that.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's different.

[Mary]

Can't name a child Brisket.

[Mike Mahardy]

Amanda and I, we don't plan on having kids, but we have talked about, like, it, I don't know, it just comes up as like, a fun convo sometimes over drinks or whatever. If we were gonna have a boy, what we name. If we're gonna have a girl, what we name them. But it does come up every once in a while. Like, early on, I would recommend a name, and she'd be like, nope, one of my worst exes, for instance, or something like that. So, like, it happens stick.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I feel like I, I, I've never thought about this before, but I do kind of hate just, like, modern trendy names where it's like, it's like Braden.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's like millennial kid naming from soap operas. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Or something like Gwyneth Paltrow would, like, name her kids or something where it's like. So I feel like I would want to go the other direction and just be like, here's my kid, Carl, you know?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Like, just most like a name that could have been from 1940, you know, here's Steve, here's Carl, here's Jimmy.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, listen, Brick, that'd be a sick kid name.

[Dan Reichert]

Brick Riker.

[Mary]

I don't think Brick is the name you think it is. Brick gives me the ick.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Is this my son Brick?

[Dan Reichert]

I kind of like that.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's. I'm just setting up for a life on that pole. Good for him.

[Dan Reichert]

Here comes Brick.

[Mary]

And my daughter Crystal Chandelier. Just ruin both of them for life.

[Mike Mahardy]

Brick and his sister, Botox, doing a co op dance for all you lucky bums out there. Creighton. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You start, Brayden. That'd be annoying.

[Dan Reichert]

It just sounds like something that would.

[Mike Mahardy]

Be Hunter Bryce Crunch. Those Are all.

[Dan Reichert]

Probably a name. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Crunch would be a good name for a woman.

[Mary]

I. I've never thought of a French Marty.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Kraskowski Mahari. He's a. He literally can only be a brain surgeon or else he will amount to nothing.

[Mary]

No, he's a murderer before he comes out of the womb.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's. It's not a matter of whether he's a murderer. It's a matter of how he's going to kill his victims and how long he's going to take.

[Mary]

I'm cringe.

[Mike Mahardy]

Hopefully he uses a scalpel.

[Mary]

I will say there's a good subreddit for this. It's called Tragedy and it's spelled really weird intentionally because a modern thing that a lot of people do is they have a kid, you know, named Chantrell, but it has like eight eyes in it and six E's and tall from.

[Mike Mahardy]

Search Party always comes to mind.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, God.

[Mary]

So it's like just terribly pronounced. Difficult to understand too many lettered names. And the subreddit's pretty funny because it is actual people who are like, my sister wants to name her son, you know, this awful, awful, awful name that has too many vowels in it and how they try and fight the tragedy of the name. So I think that's a cool place to find terrible names that you never want.

[Dan Reichert]

There's so many, so many stakes with naming a human.

[Mary]

You know, I know you don't want it to rhyme with anything bad. Like you can't name them jars.

[Dan Reichert]

The Bart fart thing.

[Mary]

Yeah, totally. We read the same mind. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

But. But with. With like pets and stuff too. Like, you know, the breed and stuff like that. So, like, you know, we knew with like gizmo he was going to be a cavalier, and he was a cavalier. And it's like we look at him like, to this day, I'll look at him like, yeah, we nailed it with Gizmo. That is a gizmo right there.

[Mary]

That is a gizmo.

[Dan Reichert]

But like, with a person, you don't know if they're going to be like a Navy SEAL or like a Dungeons and Dragons guy, you know, so it's like you gotta. You can't really predict it.

[Mary]

Well, I think you have to have a malleable name that allows them to decide what they are. And I think like one of the. The. As a non parent, so I will preface with that. One of the toughest lessons most parents have to learn is that you do not get to decide the fate of your kid. Like, they are going to be things that maybe you didn't want them to be. Maybe you really want them to be a football star.

[Dan Reichert]

And that's what my mom wanted.

[Mary]

They're. They're a big stinky nerd that can't public speak to save their life. And Dan is like, a name that could be a track star, but it could also be a bookworm. It could be both. And so I like to think of names as like. Like malleable casings for whatever your child ends up being. Because the truth is, is that, like, a good parent doesn't really have to do anything but love their child. So, like, it just should be like, something that stretches and bends to, like, whatever that kid ends up being.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Let the. The personality and the person be the thing that stands out. And, like, let the name just be, you know, just standard name, you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Don't name them, Alfred. They've got one job for the rest of their life.

[Mary]

Oh, Butler. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Or, like, what's another one? Jeeves or Jeeves. Jeeves, A better one. Yeah.

[Mary]

What's Cinderella?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes.

[Mary]

That's gonna be a real tough life. She's. Yeah, she's really stuck.

[Mike Mahardy]

Zenya.

[Dan Reichert]

Goodness.

[Mike Mahardy]

If you do have a kid named Zenya, send them.

[Dan Reichert]

Never mind.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, I was gon.

[Mary]

Mike, start the countdown.

[Mike Mahardy]

This is Brick. That's Crunch. This is Velveeta. Trough and Trough.

[Dan Reichert]

I think. No, Mike, you should have kids just so you can work out these names.

[Mike Mahardy]

What. What the. Is Bricks gonna be a. He's gonna be a sex worker. And, you know, good. More power to him. But he's gonna.

[Dan Reichert]

Borderlands character.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah, he was.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Velveeta is gonna be like the. The press secretary for a weird president in the future. Blizz.

[Mary]

Yeah, Blizz.

[Mike Mahardy]

Blizz is gonna be on. He's gonna try to reincarnate American Gladiator.

[Dan Reichert]

Is there a name that if you hear, you instantly have a. Like. Oh, they must suck. Yeah. Connotation with it.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think that's kind of the. Oh. Oh. Like, what is mine?

[Dan Reichert]

For some reason, the one that comes to mind. Mine is Todd.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah. Todd. Todd's. Todd's big.

[Dan Reichert]

You hear a Todd and I'm. I don't really know Todd.

[Mike Mahardy]

I have a cousin. Awesome guy. But, like, I still associate the name with. With that. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

We. With who?

[Mike Mahardy]

I still associate the name with douchebags.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. I just don't really know any. Like, met Todd Howard a couple times. He seems, like, fine, I guess, but that's the only, like, Todd I actually know, Zach.

[Mike Mahardy]

But I and true Britney.

[Mary]

Sorry for all the Britney's out there but like I've met a lot of Britney's and Ashley's and so I think like when I meet another Britney or Ashley, I'm like oh my gosh, it's like one more like I don't need any more Britney's or Ashley's. I got too many, got too many of those in my life. I like the name Sarah. I don't know why, I just, I.

[Dan Reichert]

Think that's like I've known a lot of good Sarahs.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's a nice cousin, niece, calm name.

[Mary]

What about Megan?

[Mike Mahardy]

I have so many Megans in my family.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, a lot of Megans. I know a lot of mics.

[Mary]

It's overused. Mike is overused. It's not bad. It's just I wouldn't name a kid something that like I feel like is so common. Another reference is there's ones where you can look up the most popular baby names from like the last years and they're very consistent. Let me see what the most popular baby names are. Most popular baby names. Names 20 Hunter.

[Mike Mahardy]

Hunter's got to be up there. I've met a lot of young hunters.

[Mary]

So popular. Okay. Baby girls. Excuse me. Olivia. Emma.

[Mike Mahardy]

I like, I like those.

[Dan Reichert]

Olivia's fun.

[Mary]

Amelia. Charlotte.

[Mike Mahardy]

She's going to get lost in the ocean.

[Mary]

Mia. Sophia. Isabella. Yeah. Ava. Sophia. Very calm, like a feather fell, you know. And here's the men's. Liam. Noah. Oliver.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't like Liam.

[Mary]

Theodore. That one's adorable. James. Henry. Mateo. Elijah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Mateo is real good. I would name a Mateo immediately.

[Dan Reichert]

I like Hank.

[Mary]

I like Henry. I like Henry.

[Dan Reichert]

You can do both. Yeah, Hank or Henry is great.

[Mike Mahardy]

Hank. I like, I like, I don't like Liam. I likely I grew up. You know what? You know a name I like is Dylan.

[Mary]

Is a nice name.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I.

[Mary]

You don't like one.

[Dan Reichert]

Dylan and he's just sucks this hockey player idiot. Yeah. Oh wait, it's bachelor's kid. I mean but yeah, you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

What about Wayne?

[Dan Reichert]

I like Wayne. I have positive connotations with Wayne. Wayne Nexus. Knight. Wayne's World.

[Mary]

Wayne Newton.

[Mike Mahardy]

Wayne Gretzky.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

What about dibs? Like I got dibs.

[Dan Reichert]

But dib is also Bacalar's kid. It's his acronym name initials.

[Mike Mahardy]

Is what you call dibs. Bacalar. While we're on the topic, let's talk about the name Bacalar. What the were they thinking?

[Dan Reichert]

It's up.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, it's real up, Jeff.

[Mary]

A true tragedy.

[Mike Mahardy]

And also what's with the number of Jeffs.

[Dan Reichert]

There's a lot of Jeffs and the occasional Geoff. Yeah, there's so many Jeffs. My. My. My main childhood bully was a Jeff. So I do have.

[Mike Mahardy]

There were two at game. Former. There's Jeff there. There were two Cork and Marky Fava.

[Dan Reichert]

And Marky Fava and Akrovic.

[Mike Mahardy]

Three.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, Markipava was Jeff. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Right. To differentiate them because there were three.

[Dan Reichert]

We had a lot of Andes. We had a lot of Matt's. We had Bert. We had Kado. We had Miller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Matt. Matt was popular one for sure.

[Mary]

Matt is a nice, sturdy name.

[Dan Reichert]

Matt.

[Mary]

Matt could be anything. That's what I'm talking about when I talk about, like a malleable name. A Matt could be anything. They could be a scientist. They could be a private dancer. They could be whoever they want.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Welcome to the stage, Matt.

[Mike Mahardy]

This is my.

[Dan Reichert]

You got a st. Matt's not a stage name. I don't know. I guess I don't know what guy stripper names are. Are there guys trippers in Matt?

[Mary]

You know, there is. You. You just fantasize the end of it.

[Dan Reichert]

It's like the thing is at dudes at. You know, with ladies stripper, it's always like ambrosia or cinnamon or something. Matt.

[Mary]

You juice up the last name. It's like Matt Fatty Dong Dong. You know, like, you just. You just like tack it on.

[Dan Reichert]

But her. He's got a new gamer tag.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Yeah, this is Brick. Fat fat ding dong. Oh, my God. The KD ration on Brick Chomp Dick. Oh, my God.

[Mary]

What a kd.

[Mike Mahardy]

He's so good at cod. Well, yeah, hopefully we help clear some stuff up for January. So you know what to name your kid. I still nominate Brick, so thank you.

[Mary]

Christian Cronch. What was your other one?

[Dan Reichert]

Crunch.

[Mike Mahardy]

Crunch. Crunch Christian. Okay, well, if you want to keep the. The father's name. Crench. Christian Crenshaw.

[Dan Reichert]

Triple C, they said.

[Mary]

But it's all K's.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, they're all K's. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

No, don't do that. Don't do that.

[Mary]

Mary Bad.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, I didn't.

[Dan Reichert]

The initials.

[Mike Mahardy]

The. Yeah, that'd be bad.

[Dan Reichert]

It's a crusty cancellation.

[Mary]

The crusty clown Classic.

[Dan Reichert]

That's so good.

[Mary]

God set them up for a miserable life. There's question.

[Mike Mahardy]

Last one.

[Mary]

Second question.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Mary]

I think Dan is currently leading the group with injuries having occurred during the podcast and sometimes because of the podcast betting odds. Whom of the three of you is the most likely to be injured next? Dan, what the. Is up with your fingers?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. What?

[Dan Reichert]

Same it's been for a year and a half.

[Mary]

Wait, cut him.

[Dan Reichert]

No, this is you.

[Mary]

Oh, that's not me cutting. I'm not liable for that.

[Dan Reichert]

This is the macaroni tub. This is slicing it with a veggie slicer.

[Mary]

It's crazy.

[Dan Reichert]

It's still fucked up.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think, Dan, again, betting odds, probably. You're also cooking a lot more. So, like, you're.

[Dan Reichert]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm off that now.

[Mike Mahardy]

Why are you off cooking? I was very proud of that momentum.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, because it was good.

[Mary]

The veggie slicer.

[Dan Reichert]

No, it was nice, but it's like, it was a thing where it's like, I was trying to do it for health purposes and stuff, but it's like, you know, even chicken breast and veggies and stuff, you're using a lot of oils. You're using all this stuff. So like, takes a ton more time. And then the calories do super duper add up. So it's. It's like, even though I'm eating healthier stuff, it's still like, oh, are you gaining weight? 900 calories? Yeah. Oh, I've gained a ton of weight in the last, like, whatever.

[Mary]

Tell me, what's the injury?

[Dan Reichert]

And not running.

[Mary]

What, are you back on.

[Dan Reichert]

Eating wise?

[Mary]

Yeah. If you're not cooking, how are you surviving breakfast?

[Dan Reichert]

I'm back on oats. I'm doing like a delivery overnight.

[Mary]

Yeah. Can't get cut on those. Wait. Oh, okay. So you're not making them. They're being delivered to your door.

[Dan Reichert]

It's super easy. It's great. And then for lunch, I do a peanut butter sandwich. No sides or anything. Sometimes a turkey sandwich with cheese.

[Mary]

Yeah. Can't cut on. Can't cut yourself on peanut butter jelly.

[Dan Reichert]

Nope. Nope. And then I'll usually for like a snack or something before dinner, I'll do like a string cheese or something like that. And then dinner I've got another, like, meal service thing that, like, most of their things are, like under 500 calories. And it's like, here's a chicken, here's a veggie, here's. You know, it's just very. Just basic protein fiber, veggie, you know, so it's microwave stuff, so it's not like fancy or anything, but it's like, you know. Yeah.

[Mary]

I have to admit something to you. I. For the last. Well, I'm not gonna admit. I'm gonna brag for the last six weeks I have chosen to do nothing but meal plans. I still go out to eat like we are once a week for a little treat. But my lunches are a smoothie service that are sent to my door and they're frozen and my dinners are a dinner service that are pre portioned. That is my, my fallout is portioning because I, if I cook I end up eating two to three portions, right?

[Dan Reichert]

Yes.

[Mary]

With these and they are pre cooked but I heat them up in a skillet or whatever.

[Dan Reichert]

Sure. Yeah, you can make, you can do oven, you can just go with that.

[Mary]

I don't overeat and I've. I've lost six pounds.

[Dan Reichert]

Congrats.

[Mary]

In six weeks.

[Dan Reichert]

And also it's just such an easier like you know, we're busy people and it's just so easy to be.

[Mary]

It's all hollow night hours. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

This is not an ad or anything but I am curious. You should discord me or tell me, you know.

[Mary]

No, I'm not ashamed of it. Yeah, I've been doing, I've been doing Factor.

[Dan Reichert]

Factor is good. I, I've done of a lot, lot.

[Mary]

Of bad calories because it has the calorie conscious ones. And so I just keep everything around 500 ish or less if I do that. Plus the smoothies are Daily Harvest which are like 200 to 300 calories. I mean like basically my meals are less than a thousand which gives me lots of room for snacks and drinking which is important to me. So I found a way, I found a way to figure out, figured it out or like if I eat these meals under like these calories then I can have three drinks and a snack.

[Dan Reichert]

I think we have the exact same things we're looking for with this stuff and like so funny and stuff. Like there are numerous different ones and you know, it's like factor Cook unity. I've liked both those a lot. I'm doing a new one now called Clean Eats. That's really good. And yeah, so it's like I, I've looked into Daily Harvest. Like I'm just very into that whole. Just like make this easy for me but also make it not terrible for me health wise.

[Mary]

Sometimes it's sad but most of the time I'm like this is convenient. I can game. I heat up my food and I eat it and it becomes more like fuel. It's not something I really think about.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't see it as sad really. It's just like, you know, if this leads to a better quality life and Better health stuff and everything.

[Mary]

Like that's been my experience.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I had a physical like last week and like, shocking. My cholesterol is super high. So it's like, all right. Need to really, you know, get that stuff.

[Mary]

Well, what do you have to cut out if you're already doing all this stuff, what else do you cut now out?

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, I do.

[Mary]

Does candy give you cholesterol?

[Dan Reichert]

I don't need a lot of candy right now. Unless I'm like around it. I just don't have candy in the house. But like, I have fast food plenty. You know, at least once a week I would say, you know, I, I'm, I socialize a lot too. So it's like, okay, I'm out at this thing and we're going to go to this bar pub place before the wrestling show and I'm going to get. We're going to get a bunch of appetizers and like that type of stuff. And I drink, you know, know maybe three nights a week or so. So it's like that all adds up quite a bit. So having the food thing be like a constant in.

[Mary]

I respect it. Yeah. I just want, I don't want to just throw a little meal to heat. And then my rule, I don't know if you follow this. Like, my rule is I don't eat it out of like the plastic bin they send it in because I'm like, that's a TV dinner. I put it on a, I put it on a plate and I eat it at a table. Like a person. Person.

[Dan Reichert]

No, no, you gotta put it in the dishwasher. You gotta. It's a hole to do. You gotta. I, I just fold it together like a paper plate and just pour it into my gullet and swallow it like a duck.

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Like home. We're eating the donuts in hell. Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Great.

[Mary]

Oh, that's so convenient. Now I can go back to gaming.

[Dan Reichert]

He says, honestly, like, food sometimes is just like, this is taking too long. I just need to like get through this. Rosary beads. My last couple weeks. Yeah.

[Mary]

It'S like, like £500.

[Dan Reichert]

Collecting. I mean, literally, like I will frequently have like 15 minutes between a show going off the air and like having to go into a meeting. And so I have these like little peanut butter packets and stuff are awesome. I'm just like scarfing down peanut butter packets.

[Mike Mahardy]

I don't between do that, but Justin's are delicious. The dark. Have you had the peanut butter cups? Yeah, the dark chocolate ones are awesome.

[Dan Reichert]

And it's like 200 calories. It gives you enough to just kind of keep you awake for the next thing you know.

[Mary]

I agree. I, I, I'm the same. Especially on like live streaming days where like I, I have to live stream as a part of my job. I'm like, when am I supposed to eat? Because we usually stream at noon. I am, I will go downstairs and make a bowl of cereal and I will eat cereal, like whatever I can fucking scrounge up. It's usually sad, but it's like I have, have to eat something or my blood sugar will be too low.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, these are like, I'm sure these don't sound like major like complaints or anything. I understand that. But it's like you do have to think about it where it's like on a bomb cast day, my time, we will get into a call at like 10:45am so you know, I'll wake up at like 7, have a little breakfast. It's like, okay, about to do podcast. So I gotta you know, have like a little something at like, you know, 10, 10:30.

[Mary]

Totally.

[Dan Reichert]

And then we do a three hour podcast and then it'll be like two o' clock and then there's like a meeting that starts at like 2:30 or something. Not really enough time to like have an actual meal.

[Mike Mahardy]

So lunch?

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Like it goes straight through lunch and like several hours on both ends and it's like, when the fuck am I going to eat?

[Mary]

Like, I usually work through lunch. I agree. That's why I actually like the smoothies. So again, no promo, just like saying like the smoothies are a convenient way because I can eat them while I type and I can also eat them while I walk my dog. And I love that shit because I walk every day too. But I walk with my dog at night, noon, when, you know, as long as I'm not live streaming. And so what I do is I make a smoothie and then I walk my dog with my smoothie. And that's a really nice system for me. It's really, it works really well and I'm really happy with, with that. I used to make salads and I was like rushing my dog like you know, around one block because I was like, I gotta cut all these tomatoes. I don't live like that anymore. I'm happier with my smoothie system.

[Dan Reichert]

I also don't ever want to eat, eat on camera really Well, I guess I do it when I'm doing like personal streams like Giant Bomb. I love people having lunch.

[Mary]

Yeah. Mike loves it when I. We would play Resident Evil and I would come in with hummus and carrots.

[Mike Mahardy]

I love when that dude's chasing me with a chainsaw. And I also hear Mary's mouth noises. It's the best.

[Mary]

Maybe your running person is me eating food running at you.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh my God. Maybe you're right.

[Mary]

Mike, it's time to record.

[Mike Mahardy]

Call Me Brick and kill me right now. That'd be the worst thing ever. How do we get on prepared food? I lost it. I lost. I need some peanut butter. Oh, Dan's definitely the. Dan's definitely the next person getting injured.

[Mary]

Dan's gonna be the next person to be injured because you're already injured. I actually don't get injured very often. I just don't do dangerous shit anymore. I. I do have a scooter either.

[Mike Mahardy]

Dan doesn't either. We filled his bath up with Mac and cheese and it just happened.

[Mary]

And then I was self injure all the time. Mike, between the two of us, we're both pretty safe. But I think it's possible that I could get murked yelling at someone in a bar. So I would say Dan, then me, then you.

[Mike Mahardy]

Agreed. I think I'm safe.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Mike Mahardy]

Knock on wood.

[Mary]

If Mike's the first to die, that's gonna be crazy.

[Dan Reichert]

It would be.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's going to be in an explosion.

[Dan Reichert]

I always say that to be like a snake eater. Boss, you're going to yell your name and explode.

[Mike Mahardy]

That'd be fucking sick.

[Mary]

Sick.

[Mike Mahardy]

Last one. Self indulgent. This is from Michael in Buffalo. Mike, I've read a bunch of your book recs. Hundred Years Solitude Visit from the Goon Squad in the distance. They've all hit Keep the Wrecks Coming. City and the City by China Mayville I or Kina Miaville. I hear people say it differently all the time. Incredible book. And then I guess if you like magical realism, I'd say go for City of Bohan. B O H A N E by Kevin Berry. Irish writer, I guess. Rounded out with an even 3. Wind up bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami. No, no, no, no, no. Actually let's. Let's say Swamplandia by Karen Russell. Also really, really good book. That's that kind of vibes with those ones. Well, thank you everybody who wrote in. Again, that's firescapecast. Gmail.

[Mary]

Nobody asks me for my smut recommendations anymore.

[Mike Mahardy]

Fantasy recommendation. Fantasy Dwarf Dicks.

[Dan Reichert]

Dicks.com.

[Mary]

Conch in the Pig Hole.

[Mike Mahardy]

The Big Hole and the Clock. Quest. Quest for the The Mythical clit.

[Mary]

It's about a wrestler.

[Mike Mahardy]

Crunch must take the ring to the G spot which might not exist in the fabled land of female orgasms. Thanks everybody. That's firescapecast gmail.com Please get those questions in for next episode. Again we restocked on our Merch site at 4th wall. Look up 4th wall fire escape cast. We restocked on the stainless steel water bottles, the white ones. That's@firescape merch.com I think we might have to re up that site. We'll figure it out. It's on our Patreon. You can find it. We like I mentioned, if you're in the New York, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Connecticut, Jersey or just are gonna be in the area later in October. Pennsylvan 10/20 I'm helping organize a Smash Bros tournament, 32 person tournament. There's going to be a buy in the ticket's also going to get you a drink and then they're gonna have some. It's at a. We're gonna have some other wines on the glass list but then the top three players are gonna get some some really cool prizes from the set seller. So I'll. I'll post the specific details there once we get things solidified. But that's basically we're almost there. So that's why I'm talking about now we are going to keep talking about the dates for our game of the Year stream. We have a tentative one behind the scenes but we're not technically ready to announce it yet. I'm sure that'll come soon though once we solidify things with potential travel and whatnot. It'll be in Minneapolis. That'll be the usual Saturday night live stream on I think on Dan Dan's Twitch channel. We'll talk more about that in the coming episodes. Dan, what do you have going on in the meantime before next episode?

[Dan Reichert]

Giantbomb.com I think I am next up on Blight Club so as soon as Mike finishes up his game I have to play whatever the fuck they send me. So that should be on Wednesdays going forward. But yeah, check out giantbomb.com or our YouTube channels and all that good stuff.

[Mike Mahardy]

What is Mike playing for Black Club.

[Dan Reichert]

Right right now Virtual Hidelide for the Sega Saturn which is does not look like a game for me at all.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay Mary, what do you have going on?

[Mary]

I will be streaming one more time but I do leave for Tokyo Game show so these two boys will be taking over and the next episode, who knows who will be on it could be anyone one because I will be.

[Dan Reichert]

I know I Want to talk about yote? I want to talk about yote for sure. Next episode.

[Mary]

Well, you got to get someone on who loves the yote.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yep, we both will be talking about yote next episode. Jake's coming to my neck of the woods in a few days. That'll be fun.

[Mary]

Happy birthday, Mike.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, thank you. How old. How old do you think I am?

[Dan Reichert]

24?

[Mary]

36.

[Mike Mahardy]

Mary's closer.

[Dan Reichert]

I actual answer.

[Mary]

He's a baby.

[Dan Reichert]

33.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's your final answer?

[Dan Reichert]

I almost said 32.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'll be 30.

[Mary]

34.

[Dan Reichert]

34.

[Mary]

I was like, you're a baby.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay. Okay.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. I mean, I don't think 34 makes me a baby. I started. I'd, like. I'd.

[Mary]

What are you gonna turn, like, 12?

[Mike Mahardy]

I try not to complain, but I think, like, I hit 33, and I actually started feeling some aging, and I was reading. I was reading an article, like, apparently male bodies specifically do most of their aging. When you hit 32, 33, and all of a sudden, it happens a lot at once, and I'm feeling it.

[Mary]

Bummer.

[Dan Reichert]

I know it's a cliche, but it's like. Yeah, there's a reason. I'm just, like, surrounded by constantly fiddling with things to make everything feel better. Yeah. To know avail.

[Mary]

Really, there is, like, a. I'm looking.

[Mike Mahardy]

Forward to the endless battle of attrition that leads to nothing.

[Mary]

Everybody's different.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Mine was, like, around 35. I was like, oh, my. My metabolism is different. I cannot eat cheese fries the way I used to. I just can't anymore.

[Dan Reichert]

Drinking, eating, drinking. I've noticed for sure all of that stuff is. Becomes a lot, lot different. Yes.

[Mike Mahardy]

Which is why, like, getting into wine is nice, because it, I think, like, to truly enjoy it the way I want to, it does just kind of, by definition, encourage moderation. But, like, on those rare occasions when I'm not moderating that next day and.

[Dan Reichert]

Or.

[Mike Mahardy]

And change, my body is. Is not built like it was when I was 22, which is probably for the.

[Dan Reichert]

Don't worry. It gets better. Don't worry.

[Mike Mahardy]

Great.

[Dan Reichert]

I can't wait. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Wait. I'll be spinning on that pole before you know it.

[Mary]

Get older.

[Dan Reichert]

It is fun, though, like, because all your friends are getting older too, so it's like everyone's just kind of like. You can all talk about it and stuff.

[Mike Mahardy]

I feel like I'm joining a club slowly.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Yeah. And then we're all just gonna. It's gonna get worse until we die.

[Mike Mahardy]

And then I'll be on the poll at the club. My favorite.

[Dan Reichert]

That's where we're having our meetup. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Hell, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Here he comes. What was my pole guy name?

[Mike Mahardy]

Brick tension Gronk McCallahan. Oh, fatty chub. Chub or something like that.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, yeah. There's something about a dick in there. Chub, I guess.

[Mike Mahardy]

Could be Fatty McLimcock.

[Dan Reichert]

Fatty Mc Slim is a terrible name.

[Mary]

And all the women are like, what? Who even knows what's down there?

[Mike Mahardy]

Single big boy with a pencil dick.

[Mary]

That could mean anything.

[Dan Reichert]

Somebody's into it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Mary]

You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

More power to them. Why did someone write vine time way, way, way at the bottom of our master show run of show?

[Dan Reichert]

I have no idea what that could possibly be.

[Mike Mahardy]

Buying time.

[Dan Reichert]

We've had the same document.

[Mary]

Oh, this is when we were coming up with Wine. Wine magazine names.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, I remember that podcast names.

[Mary]

Wine Time.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, that's gross. All right, well, thank you, everybody, for joining us. That was episode 67. We're looking forward to June. It's gonna be here. It's gonna be a good summer this summer. So we'll see you next episode. Thanks for joining. Appreciate it. Bye.

[Mary]

Bye.