Fire Escape Cast #117

Summary

Fire Escape Cast #117 — October 6, 2025

Hosts: Mike Mahardy, Dan Ryckert
Guest: Jesse Vitelli (Restart.run, former Prima Games)
Absent: Mary Kish (traveling in Japan)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, regular hosts Dan and Mike are joined by games journalist Jesse Vitelli while Mary is away. The trio have a classic Fire Escape-style sprawling conversation about their social escapades, questionable midwestern bar traditions, and, most importantly, a deep dive into new and recent video games including Ghost of Yotei, Hades II, Mega Bonk, Digimon Story: Time Stranger, and more. The show also features lively tangents on movies, video game nostalgia, the social dynamics of playing games, and rapid-fire hot takes.

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Key Topics & Highlights

1. Opening Banter & Social Catch-up (00:10–10:25)

• Mary's Absence and Jesse's Introduction

  • Mary is off gallivanting in Japan, so Jesse Vitelli joins as guest (01:04).
  • Jesse's background: Associate editor at Restart.run, ex-Prima Games, guides specialist.

• Bar Stories and NYC Fire Escape Hangouts

  • Mike plugs his upcoming NYC Super Smash Bros. tournament (Oct. 20 at Center Street, [03:41]).
  • Anecdotes of old Fire Escape meetups, catnip whiskey shots, and the infamous Vegas Lounge in Minneapolis.
  • Dan's love for car trunk rides on bar nights:

    “I have like anti-claustrophobia, I think... I feel like cozy and I take like a little nap almost in there.” (08:49, Dan)

• Minnesota Bar Vices: Pull Tabs, Meat Raffles, Bonus Hole

  • Jesse learns about Minnesota’s weirdest bar traditions (pull tabs, meat raffles, “bonus hole”)—comically explained (09:48–13:01).

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2. Movie Talk: Anti-movie Youth & Rocky Debate (14:18–21:09)

• Jesse reveals a preference for movies under 45 minutes (“all movies should be 45 minutes, no longer” (14:18)), sparking a debate about movie lengths.
• Rocky franchise discussion, importance of watching Rocky IV (“one of the most exciting things I have seen in my life” (17:00, Dan)), and tangents into Creed, Pan’s Labyrinth, Batman, and changes in moviegoing habits post-pandemic.
• Movie theater etiquette, social viewing, Nighthawk/NYC brunches, and the value/decline of in-theater experiences.

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3. Nostalgia, Bar Experiences, and Video Game Press Travel (05:17–10:46, 21:30–28:46)

• Dan and Jesse recount recent hangs in Minneapolis, bar tours, and “youthful” misadventures.
• Comparison of old video game press trips to the more homogeneous, LA/NYC-centric press events of today.
• Nostalgia about physical gatherings vs. today’s online communities.

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4. Video Game Talk – Main Roundup

Ghost of Yotei (Main Feature)

• Basics: Direct follow-up to Ghost of Tsushima by Sucker Punch.
• Story: Players control Otsu, a vengeful heroine hunting the "Yotei Six" across a beautifully stylized Japanese landscape.
• Core Impressions:
  • Mike: "I think Ghost of Yotei is one of the top three most beautiful games I’ve ever played." (40:55)
  • Dan: Instant visual awe at the prologue, color palette, and environmental variation—describes it as more “autumnal” than Tsushima.
  • Nonlinear structure, “Breath of the Wild”-inspired freedom ("This makes me feel more like Breath of the Wild..." (42:14, Dan)), investigation mechanics, dynamic “corkboard” clue-solving.
  • Excellent use of photo mode. (58:24)
  • Repetitive but satisfying open-world tasks; small Red Dead 2 influence in tactile campfire, cooking, forging, touchpad actions.
  • Playstyle and roleplaying as Otsu: “I have gotten so into her character that I'm not thinking, what do I want to do? I am thinking, what would Otsu do in this situation?” (48:06, Mike)

Accessibility & Gameplay Innovations

• Extensive accessibility settings—can toggle features like golden guiding birds, microphone interaction with the DualSense, etc.
• “Gimmicky” controller features (forging, blowing, painting) are not negative; instead, they boost immersion and give the player time to slow down.

Game Structure & Story Comments

• Story stronger and more propulsive than Tsushima; roleplay elements and varied quest pathways highlight Otsu’s unique anti-hero arc.
• Mechanical differences: new weapon types have lore, new “wolf pack” system, less emphasis on stances; supernatural abilities more magical than historical.

"This game feels like Sucker Punch had a bit more fun making it than Tsushima... less afraid to let go of the reins and let things get a bit weird." (49:47, Mike)

Jesse's Perspective

• Reviewing and writing guides vs. playing for fun; Otsu offers a fresh open-world RPG experience worth exploring.

Notable Quote

“[Ghost of Yotei] flows so much better than Tsushima... the first open world game in a while outside of work purposes I’ve wanted to finish for the story. The last time that happened was probably Witcher 3.” (55:13, Mike)

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Hades II (64:41–84:52)

• Status: Released 1.0, expanded from early access.
• Mike: ~3 hours in, “feels like more Hades to me, and that’s what I wanted.”
• Dan: Mainlining dual bosses/routes, loves build variety and how narrative structure evolves with progress.
• Jesse: “It’s kind of built to sort of sidestep all of your knowledge of the first game... the experimentation period with Hades II has been fascinating.” (69:03)
• Combat/Weapons: Each weapon drastically alters play, some structured more for offense, others for strategic control (e.g., the “skull” as a speedrunning favorite).
• New Features:
  • Magic meter, omega attacks, more complex resource management.
  • Complex home base/Crossroads—“less readable” but more explorable.
• Loop & Progression:
  • Multiple completion requirements mimic Hades 1 (“It’s a set number of completions that helps push that final chunk along.” (66:20, Jesse))
• Resource Overload: Many crafting mechanics/plants; generally can ignore but sometimes overwhelming. “You can ignore 90% of it…” (83:49, Jesse)
• Narrative:
  • Shifts from Zagreus’s family drama to Melinoe’s more strategic, collaborative tone.
  • “Living forever doesn’t have to be miserable... there’s something nice about that.” (76:36, Jesse)

Notable Quotes

"Maybe the best roguelite of all time." (79:10, Dan)
“If it’s a refinement of the best game of 2020, then that's a pretty good start.” (78:52, Mike)

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Mega Bonk (85:57–94:34)

• Overview:
  • “3D Vampire Survivors”—auto-attacking horde game, but with jumping, power-ups, and very short (10-minute) runs.
  • Dan: “Potent is the word... it is hard to stop playing...” (86:20, Dan)
• Addictive Loop: 10-min runs fit any schedule, and unlock progression is highly rewarding.
• Humor: Internet/meme gimmicks (“stonks”, “Mega Chad”) can be grating for Dan, but gameplay overcomes it.
• Sidetrack on Drugs: Discussion of “bumping” and Dan’s lack of experience with anything “harder than weed” for comic relief (89:51–91:09).

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Digimon Story: Time Stranger (94:10–104:54)

• Jesse: Complete expert, wrote the review.
• Game:
  • Classic monster-battling (like Pokémon) but with much weirder, wilder, more “adult” narrative and Digimon.
  • Extensive explanation of Digimon evolution lines, including “Deputymon” (a revolver with arms and legs) and other wild designs—everyone goes to fandom.com to gawk at Digimon designs.
  • Dialogues are “cheesy and very exposition heavy,” but game ramps up into surprisingly mature, existential themes (“Suicide is a real thing!” (96:53)).
• Interest Level:
  • Dan: “If you showed me this sh!t when I was nine, I would have multiple Digimon tattoos at this point, I think.” (103:55)
• Platform: PlayStation, Xbox, PC, maybe Switch.

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Baby Steps / Fodian Games (106:01–113:55)

• Premise: QWOP-style, intentionally awkward movement platformer.
• Dan: Enjoys the concept and watching streams, but “I am not particularly patient” and not going to replay large sections after falls.
• Jeff Grubb: Shout-out for marathon runs and patience.
• Group Perspective: Respect exists for this genre’s dedication to “the bit,” but nobody wants to actually play it themselves.

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5. Rapid Fire: Jesse’s Corner (35:00)

Mike and Dan hit Jesse with quick prompts for witty one-liner reviews. Highlights:

• Hollow Knight: Silksong: “Diabolical in the best ways.”
• Sonic Racing Crossworlds: “I refuse to learn anything about Sonic... and still don't know anything about the franchise.”
• Borderlands 4: “...the guy you knew in high school that never got out of his hometown, but then did... comes back with a fresh perspective.”
• Breath of the Wild: “A masterclass in design in letting you do whatever the fuck you want.”

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6. Emails, Hot Takes & Nostalgia (113:19–161:51)

On Boss Fights:

• Dan and Jesse rail against dated “boss fights are always bad” opinions. “That is a dumb fucking opinion. Boss fights have been amazing since the first video games.” (114:19, Dan)

Video Game Hot Takes:

• Mike: Used to believe Banjo-Tooie > Banjo-Kazooie, but regrets it (“objectively a terrible game in some respects” (116:21))
• Jesse: “Death Stranding 2 is actually a very bad video game.”
• Group: Silksong discourse—potentially over-praised.
• Jesse: “The boss fights are the worst parts of Souls likes.”
• Dan: Thinks the “From” format is overrated except Elden Ring, but is “not that into Souls.”
• On Assassin’s Creed: Mike still enjoys it, “I think my hot take is I’m still in love with Assassin’s Creed.”

On Nostalgia and Preservation:

• Debating whether today’s kids playing Fortnite/Roblox will have any comparable nostalgic “return” experience to the replayable games of the 1990s, since “their” classic events can’t be perfectly recaptured due to game mutability.

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7. Social Gaming, Subtitles, and Soundtrack Choices (130:24–142:17)

• Subtitles:
  • Everyone has them on in games, especially for work/streaming. TV shows = useful for massive ensemble casts and clarity.
  • Mike: “I’ve come around on them with TV...” (130:53)
• Sound in Games:
  • Some listeners only play games with no sound/music to unwind away from family; hosts think this is fine, but agree it misses a lot of intent.
  • For Hades/Spider-Man/etc., “podcast gaming” is okay; for highly curated titles like Ghost of Yotei or Death Stranding, the sound is “intrinsically tied” to the experience (148:30, Jesse).

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8. Guides Writing & Game Journalism Life (58:57–64:25)

• Jesse deeply details the labor-intensive nature of modern game guides (taking notes on EVERYTHING, collaborative “exchange of information,” not always knowing what will be important).
• Print guide nostalgia (e.g., Prima’s last guide for Axiom Verge).
• “SEO-targeted” articles, shifting relevance of “comprehensive” walkthroughs in the internet age.

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9. Listener Questions (113:23–161:51)

• Multiple questions tackled—subtitles, finishing games, sound off, game-buying habits, and the joys of “ditching” games (the feeling of relief in dropping something that isn’t sticking).
  • Dan’s new ritual: Sauna beers and reading Vonnegut. (152:10+)
  • Mike’s life advice: “If you’re enjoying something, that’s worth the time.”

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10. Closing & Plugs (155:11–end)

• Jesse: Read his Digimon review at Restart.run; find him on Twitter/BlueSky.
• Dan: GiantBomb sub-drive coming soon; currently suffering through Darkest of Days for Blight Club.
• Mike: Come to NYC Smash tournament Oct. 20; buy Fire Escape merch at firescapemerch.com.
• Next Game of the Year stream likely early December, Minneapolis.

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamp Index

• On Otsu as a protagonist:

  “I have gotten so into her character that I'm not thinking, what do I want to do? I am thinking, what would Otsu do in this situation?” (48:06, Mike)

• On Mega Bonk:

  “Potent is the word I keep thinking of. It is hard to stop playing it…” (86:20, Dan)

• On gaming nostalgia:

  “They are not going to be able to kind of have that appreciation and revisit these games of their youth...” (125:17, Dan)

• On guide writing:

  “When you're the one writing the guides, you can't consult guides because they don't exist yet.” (60:50, Jesse)

• On soundtracks:

  “If you want to tailor your experience to be as immersive to you as you can make it... go for it.” (144:01, Mike)

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Timestamps by Segment

| Segment | Timestamp (MM:SS) |
|---------|-------------------| | Opening & Jesse intro | 00:10–04:50 | | Bar stories & meetups | 04:50–10:46 | | Press trips vs. now | 05:17–10:46 |
| Pull tabs/meat raffle | 09:48–14:18 |
| Movie debate/Rocky | 14:18–21:09 |
| Movies/theaters post-COVID | 20:07–23:00 |
| Social gaming nostalgia | 21:30–28:46 |
| Ghost of Yotei deep dive | 34:01–58:49 |
| Rapid-fire Jesse reviews | 35:00, 134:18 |
| Hades II roundtable | 64:41–84:52 |
| Mega Bonk | 85:57–94:34 |
| Digimon Story: Time Stranger | 94:10–104:54 |
| Baby Steps / Fodian games | 106:01–113:55 |
| Emails/hot takes | 113:19–161:51 |
| Subtitles & Soundtrack | 130:24–147:09 |
| Guides writing | 58:57–64:25 |
| Sauna beers & book talk | 152:10–154:55 |
| Plugs & sign-off | 155:11–end |

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Tone & Style

Fire Escape remains gloriously irreverent, sharp, and conversational—from bar idiocy to deep design musings, with rapid shifts between banter and critical insight. Dashes of profanity, loving arguments about movies, and self-deprecating nerdom abound (“I'm gonna look like fucking Two-Face if I tried to do this myself,” 27:44, Dan).

Bottom Line:
This episode is classic Fire Escape—beer and bar tales, game deep-dives, wild tangents, and strong, highly personal takes on gaming’s greatest debates. Whether you want to hear epic new game breakdowns or simply laugh at “Deputymon” with Dan and Mike, #117 is a rich listen even for non-listeners.

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Episode MVP: Ghost of Yotei Conversation with deep mechanics/story/thematic breakdown (~34:01–58:49)

Runner-up: Hades II roundtable & the value of “refined sequels” (~64:41–84:52) Best tangent: The wild world of Digimon designs (esp. Deputymon, 94:10–103:55)

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Listen if you want...

• Detailed but funny breakdowns of key 2025 games (especially Ghost of Yotei and Hades II)
• Sprawling, energetic banter—from bar games to video game guides writing
• Honest opinions and off-the-cuff hot takes about the state of game design, nostalgia, and the changing landscape of gaming culture

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For next time: Send questions to [e-mail] — Mary returns, and Game of the Year discussions begin soon!

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

What's happening? Billy Krappinen. Welcome back to the regular thing.

[A]

You can't keep doing that.

[B]

Welcome back to the Fire Escape cast. This is episode 117. I'm Mike Mahardi here, as always, with Daniel Reichert.

[A]

Was 117 the. The Halo guy? The Spark. Spark. Spark. 117. Was that it?

[B]

Yeah. Master Chief Spartan. 117. Guilty Spark. Was a.

[A]

Guilty Sparks who I'm thinking of.

[B]

That was the. The monitor from that you meet in the Swamp episode. The Guilty 343. Guilty Spark was the episode where you go into the. You meet the flood for the first time.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

This is too early to talk about video games.

[A]

We're here. Mary's being quiet. Mary, what's going on?

[B]

This is a comedy podcast. This isn't about video games. We're not here with Mary. She's gallivanting around Japan, knocking down restaurant walls, probably desecrating temples. We brought in Jesse Vitelli. Explain yourself. Who are you?

[A]

Explain yourself.

[C]

Okay. I'm Jesse Vitaly. I'm an associate [e-mail] I like to play video games. I review them. I run social media. I do. I do a lot of things. Honestly. I usually get a lot of random discord messages from Dan that's like we're throw you in a normal suit and then we're going to, like, make you. We're going to throw you into a volcano. We're going to put you behind a wall. We're going to do all these things and I'm the guy that just goes, yeah, sure, that sounds great.

[B]

Behind the Wall is just like the intro to Sicario and you're threatening him as a cartel.

[C]

May.

[A]

I was thinking more of a cask of a Montalato situation. Literary man.

[B]

That's not the pronunciation.

[C]

I got great wine. Just go behind this wall. We're going to brick you up. It's fine. Don't worry about it.

[A]

It's funny because, like, I like to pull that reference out as a joke of like, wow, Dan knows the literary thing. But then I accidentally still sound stupid in my smart guy. How? Because everyone always says I say it wrong. Is it amontillado?

[B]

Correct? Yes, Amontillado type of sherry. Do you want to talk about Sherry for a bit? I could talk about Sherry.

[A]

Jesse, you've only met Mike briefly, but, you know, we've, as longtime friends of Mike, have learned to sidestep anything that could go into wine territory.

[B]

I appreciate that you knew Sherry was wine.

[A]

That I'm.

[B]

What I appreciate that you knew Sherry is wine though. That's nice. Not everybody knows that.

[A]

I didn't say that. I didn't say I knew that.

[B]

You just said you try to sidestep anytime he talks about wine.

[A]

So you knew Amazon context clues, you know.

[B]

Oh yeah. No, Sherry's kind of wine. But I won't get into that unless you want me to.

[C]

It's okay. My neighbor downstairs is a sommelier and so like I. I could go get Chris right now. We could bring him up.

[B]

We could get a. What's his. Where does he work?

[C]

I have no idea.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

All I know is that he's a sommelier.

[B]

That'd be funny if it was Chris who I work with on the weekends. Speaking of which, really quick, I'm going to plug it up top because I'm excited about it. October 20th, I mentioned last time it is fully concrete now. I'm hosting a Smash Bros. Tournament. 32 person tournament, three stock. It's Smash Bros. Ultimate. It's not full esports rules, but it's three stock. We're going to be playing at LA company Center Street Best wine bar in New York City. It's where I work on the weekends as a hobby. I will be hosting it and wear some fire escape merch there. If you go to our Patreon, I have links to sign up for the tournament. Spots are filling up, but you can either sign up for the tournament or sign up. Just make a reservation through Resi if you want to come hang out. It's. You know, we'll have some snacks, we'll have good wine, be hanging out there in Soho for the night. I'm excited.

[A]

I mentioned would they host a. If we ever did another New York City fire escape meetup, would they be willing to have a full group of fire escape yahoos in the place?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. I can't like say with the utmost certainty, but we can always just go there and hang out. It depends on how much. How many people. How many people do we have at the. The Churchill? One.

[A]

And I would guess about 50, I think. That sound about right?

[B]

Sounds it. Yeah. You made me drink catnip. Mm.

[A]

Yeah. Jesse, before the meetup, was this even apropos of anything or could be funny?

[B]

We were going to get breakfast or something that morning and we walked by that pet shop that my wife and I like. And you said it before, you wondered if eating catnip would get a human high.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then you said Mike could be a guinea pig for it. And then you secretly all bought catnip that you then put in a like a highball of whiskey later that night and had me drink it. Yes, you take a shot of catnip. Although I did get really weirded out after because you told me before I drank it. You're like, no, I researched it thoroughly. You're not going to be high. And then I drank it. You're like, I actually didn't read about it at all. So then all of a sudden I.

[A]

Was, yeah, that seems irresponsible at best.

[C]

Was trusting him.

[B]

No, it's fine. My stomach was a bit off though because I drank like it was like drinking floating fish food in a glass of whiskey.

[A]

That's fun.

[B]

No, I was fine though. But yeah, no like 50 something people. People came in from Connecticut, Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania. It was very fun. So October 20th at LA Company Center Street. I'll be there. But yeah, we were talking about. Oh yeah, wine smash. Mary's off in Tokyo. Or at least she's still in Japan. She went to tgs. You both have you have either of you done a Dan. You've done a tgs?

[A]

I did one tgs. I've been to Japan four times.

[C]

Yeah, done Japan, Japan zero times.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Which feels weird in this line of work. I feel like at some point I should have been in Japan.

[A]

It was like so much more like first of all that like travel type stuff, I feel like happened way more back then. I mean it happens now, but it's always like an event in LA and event, event in New York. They're always just kind of the same events at like an event space or on the 20th floor of a hotel in Manhattan or something. You guys missed the heyday. I mean Mike, you got a little taste of it from your game in former time. You didn't travel, but you missed a lot of.

[B]

I, I got like a solid two years of travel and also Jake and I. Jake for what it's worth, just left New York Monday. He was here all weekend. I can.

[A]

Oh, I mean like gee, Game Informer. You weren't, you were an intern.

[B]

Oh, I see. I thought you were game.

[A]

You did?

[B]

Sure. No, I, I, I didn't travel at all for Game Informer, but I definitely, I think I mentioned on a couple episodes ago my first cover story I had joined for was Lego Marvel and I. That would have been England. TT Games.

[A]

Yeah, Travelers Hansen.

[B]

I get those mixed up. But no, I never traveled for game. Former. But I definitely did for Gamespot a little bit and twice.

[A]

That was the thing too is like, there were more, like, dedicated. Maybe this was just a Game Informer thing. But, like, since they did the COVID stories every month, it was like, okay, it's just Game Informer going out. So it's like you and a couple colleagues, you know, going. Meeting with the team and everything. Now I feel like when travel stuff does happen, it's usually like these bigger press events. Like, I did that Metal Gear Solid one in New York. The. The destroying one in Japan, where it's just like, okay, it's like a cattle call. Like 30, 40 different journalists and stuff like that. So it's just different now.

[B]

I think there's also.

[C]

And living in New York, a lot of them happen here. So I don't go anywhere because it's like, yeah, just get on a $3 subway and go uptown. Like, Pokemon recently just did one where they flew a bunch of people out to France and they played Pokemon in the Eiffel Tower. Meanwhile, I'm getting shit on by a pigeon on my way to some random penthouse in Manhattan to play Pokemon for an hour, and I'm like, I couldn't. You could take me. Send me to France.

[B]

Was that the Glass House in Chelsea?

[C]

No, I, I don't. It was some, like, random, like, warehouse.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Penthouse type deal.

[B]

Yeah, I know they. They do a lot of stuff at the Glass House. I, I just. I say that as. As if it's this, like, Mecca I've been only a few times. And I. It's not my favorite, but. Yeah, no, I, I. Jake Decker was at the Paris thing as well, and he always. Every time he's in Paris, which is weirdly often compare. Like, especially. He'll message me, like, hey, have you seen this? And then he'll take a photo of the Eiffel Tower and message me. It's my favorite thing. I love it. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Good bit. Jesse did travel to Minneapolis recently. I hung out with him here and I did. I took him to the Vegas Lounge with Mike. You never heard of Vegas Lounge? Yep.

[C]

I showed him very quickly about that place.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We made Spring Street Tavern.

[A]

Yeah, we walked from Spring Street Tavern to Vegas Lounge. I showed them the spot on the sidewalk where you ate shit and got a bunch of gravel stuck in your knee.

[C]

I did learn about that. That's true.

[A]

Yeah. But then, yeah, full Vegas Lounge night with everything that goes along with that. And I'm glad that place still got it. I'm not there nearly as much these days now that I don't live across the street and I'm not 25 anymore. But it's. Yeah, yeah, you're right. That's what Jesse kept saying.

[C]

That place rules.

[B]

Yeah, that's great.

[C]

We did put you in a trunk and drive you over there.

[B]

So like you did get a little.

[C]

Taste of the youth, you know?

[A]

Yeah, I rode in the trunk. I do always prefer like, I like riding in the trunk on a bar night. That was my go to in college was like, everyone's like, oh, how are we going to fit everyone's car? It's like, no, I'll get in the trunk. It's like I have like anti claustrophobia, I think where it's just like, oh yeah. I'm just. I feel like cozy and I take like a little nap almost in there. You know, you can kind of just hear like muffled voices having a conversation in the front and you're just kind of rattling around back there.

[B]

It's like a sedan trunk or like a hatchback. Like a SUV is a sedan just like a normal car, fully enclosed as opposed to like. Oh yeah.

[A]

Like you can pitch black.

[B]

Pitch black. I'm weird. Yeah, I've done that a few times. I didn't like it. But I do often sit in the trunk or I used to sit in the trunk for. With like in a jeep or.

[A]

Oh, that's not the real deal or something.

[B]

Still nice though.

[A]

Real deal.

[B]

I wish we still had station wagons with the leather benches in the back facing backward.

[A]

There was a new game there between the door and the bar. It's a bonus hole is the new game they have there. I don't think we played it, Jesse. I think we just stood around the.

[C]

Bonus hole just kind of pointed and laughed at it.

[A]

Yeah. I took pictures of the bonus hole. This is one of those bullshit coin. It's like that rat coin game that's coming out, you know, where it's like you put a quarter in there and you hope untold riches spill into your lap and it never does.

[C]

I learned about pull tabs. That was a big one. I learned how to gamble.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I went up to an old woman smoking a cigarette and I handed her $20 in singles.

[B]

That sounds like a good Vegas lounge night. You like learn every vice in a 10 minute stretch and like you realize what your true like weaknesses.

[A]

Well, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Meat raffle would have got me, but there was no meat raffle that night.

[A]

That's in the mornings, on the weekends. Yeah. As Jesse was doing the pull tabs, that's when we had our first taste of. There was that woman in the back porch that was just being real weird. I remember she was hovering over your shoulder during the pull tabs. And then what happened? She was, like, hitting on every guy at the bar. And then as we're waiting for our, like, Uber afterwards in the parking lot, she was like, oh, my husband's gonna be upset about this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So here's.

[C]

A shortened timeline of this.

[B]

Or don't do it.

[A]

Maybe this.

[C]

This. This girl was, like, kind of hovering around us, and we were, like, engaging in conversation and trying to bring her and her friend into the group because we were a big group of people. And then she gave me money to go get pull tabs because she learned that I had never done pull tabs before. And then only one of the, like, 10 that I got was, like a $5 winner or something, and I gave it to her, and I was like, oh, this was partially your money. Here, you take it. Go get your money. And then they disappeared. And I was like, I think this was the girl just trying to get people to get pull tabs. Like, I think we just got got.

[B]

Which.

[A]

Can you explain pull tabs for the non Minnesotans out there?

[C]

It's a square piece of cardboard that you just. You. You buy them for, like, a dollar. The woman was like, pick a number and a color and then put her hand in a box like, like, dune, and then just handed me, like, just a bunch of cardboard things. And then you just, like, rip off the cardboard. And then it's kind of like a slot machine. And it's like. You're like. You're, like, looking for matches, I think, is what it was.

[A]

It's like symbols and cherries and bells and stuff. And it's. It's like a scratch off ticket meets a slot machine, basically.

[C]

When you were saying pull tabs, I thought you were talking about scratch offs. Oh, I learned it was very different.

[B]

I thought you're saying the Vegas lounge had old school beer cans that were pull tabs still.

[A]

Oh, wait, I don't know what pull tabs are.

[B]

No, they sound like scratch offs, though.

[A]

Yeah, it's. But it's weird because it's like, I think it's a legal thing where they can't just sell it at the bar, because most, like, dive bars you go to in Minneapolis, they'll have the people working the bar, and then they will have, like, a dedicated pull tabs employee. And like Jesse said, usually an older lady that has smoked 8 million cigarettes. And then you just put, like, that's all they do all night. And, like, you rarely see people going Up. There's never a line at the pull tabs count or anything, but they're working there every fucking night. And it's just a novelty. Like, I've never gone there. And like, oh, yeah, I'm doing pull tabs all night. It's just. It's a. It's a thing that when people from out of town are like, what the fuck is that? You show them, but no one actually does it, you know, I don't think I've experienced that.

[B]

The Vegas Lounge.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it was there the whole time. Like, it was a whole corner of the place. And you probably never even saw it. It's weird.

[B]

Oh, shit. Wait.

[C]

It's.

[B]

Oh, it's its own little, like, counter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like a kiosk where. I know the Vegas Lounge. Like, I have.

[A]

If you're facing the karaoke stand.

[B]

Yeah. With the black deck out back behind.

[A]

Karaoke. Right. It's like in that back corner. It's like the door that goes out to the dumpsters. It's like next to that. It's like there's a blind spot there. It's insane.

[B]

Yeah. I just remember my. I think my most vivid memory of Vegas Lounge was. It would have been toward the end of my internship, and I had to go pee. And then we had requested no Easy Way out by Edward Tepper. And you, Ben Reeves, and I want to say Tim Turi went up and there were four mics. But you were looking for me. I think it was Ben Reeves started sprinting around the perimeter of the bar trying to find me, thinking I had gone out for. I don't know, to get on the phone or something. I was just in the bathroom. And then you did the same thing with the same exact song at Tim Turrey's wedding. But I had left the wedding.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I just disappear when that song is about to come on, even though it's the best song ever written.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jesse, are you. Are you a Rocky guy?

[C]

I. Rocky's fine, okay? I don't. I don't have strong feelings one way or not. You know what?

[B]

You know what?

[C]

Here's my take.

[A]

What's that?

[C]

Yeah, all movies should be 45 minutes, no longer.

[A]

Oh, okay. Is this a thing with the kids today, Jesse? Because you're. You're what, 20, 23 next week? What do you mean today? Look, anyone more than two years younger than me as a kid, including Mike. There is a weird. I don't know if it's this industry or what, but there is a weird anti movie Thing going on with the youths. I think I've heard this is a me problem. No, I've heard this recently from Jordan Midler, who's a youngster in games media. Mike Minati, who. He's not a youngster. He's closer to my age. But he's a. He's a Disney child though, so he might as well be a youth 100 years old.

[B]

Yeah, but Disney movies are longer than 45 minutes.

[A]

I know, but every Disney is just a different. Like, you know, he. He's afraid of fruit, but he'll eat a dole whip at Disney because that's.

[B]

Disney don't give a shit about his.

[A]

I know. Disney is on it. Then all the rules go out the window, you know?

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

Sure. Yeah, yeah. It's all to say that like, yes, there are many younger people in the games industry now that are either fully anti the filmic arts or like Jesse just said here, 45 minutes or longer. You. You don't think. What's the longest movie that you love? Did he.

[C]

I mean, I love.

[B]

I love.

[C]

Have I seen what? No, I actually do want to see that.

[A]

That's like three hours long.

[B]

I still. I couldn't hear you either time.

[A]

What movie? One battle after another.

[B]

Oh, I saw.

[A]

It's great.

[C]

I mean, I've seen the Lord of the Rings extended editions, like multiple times. Like, those are long as hell. I love Pan's Labyrinth. That's like not a short film by any measure. Like, I have seen plenty of long movies. I simply think that some movies, most movies, in fact, are too fucking long.

[B]

But isn't Rocky 4 like an hour, 20 rotations?

[C]

I didn't watch 3. I gotta watch 3 Rockies to get there, though. Have you not only seen Rock one? I've only seen the first one.

[A]

Okay, here's the thing, Jesse, I want to give you. Listen, you watch fucking Furry Vengeance with me last weekend, all right?

[C]

No, no, no, no, no. Don't say it like. Don't say it like. I was gung ho. You held me hostage and then texted me multiple times to make sure I was into that Twitch chat with you and then made me check in with you at least.

[A]

That is true. That is true, Mike. Furry Vengeance is Brendan Frazier, 2010. Him and Brooke Shields move into a house in the woods and they're. They're haunted by CGI animals for an hour and a half. But I don't want to get distracted from Rocky yet. All right, Jesse, Rocky 1 and Rocky 2 are films, like capital F films, you know, it was Like Oscar I.

[C]

Camera runs up the stairs.

[B]

Rocky one one, two got nominated.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, right. Those are. Those are film drinks.

[C]

The raw egg. Yeah, absolutely. I'm familiar.

[A]

Rocky 4 is a movie. It is the most dumbass. But I. I don't mean to say it's like, oh, it's ironic. It's so bad. It's good. You like? It's not a furry vengeance situation. It is genuinely one of the most exciting things I have seen in my life. Every single time I watch it, it's an hour and a half long and I feel like it's been going for 20 minutes and then it's like the final fight has started. It is the fastest moving, like, gripping from shot to shot thing. I would want to hear what Jesse Vitelli thinks of Rocky.

[B]

Yeah, it's not just a final fight. It's a metaphor for the Cold War and like, just, you know, like the Post World War II tensions and how that wrought havoc across the world. It's just like that movie also. That movie is like. People give Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan credit for bringing an anime vibe to the Creed trilogy, especially Creed 3, which Michael B. Jordan was his directorial debut. Good movie. Not my favorite. But Rocky IV was already in anime, basically with two jacked, very hot men punching each other over and over and over. And the one guy, oh, God, there's a lot.

[A]

Who are you leaving out? Wait, are you. There's Sly Apollo and I'm not talk.

[B]

Oh, wait, what do you mean, oh?

[A]

You said two. Who.

[B]

Who.

[A]

Who's the.

[B]

I don't want to spoil anything about one fight is decidedly unhot. Unless you're into.

[A]

Don't spoil it for Jesse.

[B]

That's why I didn't want to. You just brought it up. So you got to watch Rocky 2 and then you got to watch Rocky 3. And get this, you got to watch Rocky 4.

[C]

So this isn't an hour and a half endeavor anymore. This is now a multi hour.

[B]

Jesse, I'd be.

[A]

I'd sign off on you two and then four.

[B]

Yeah, you don't need to watch. You don't.

[A]

There was a lot of. Ooh, there's such a just emotional gravitas to four. If you've seen the three leading up to it.

[B]

I would say especially one and two. Amanda and I last year, two years ago, I showed her the entire series. And by that I mean I Clockwork Orange her to the couch. And we skipped three, and I think four are still. We were both cream in our jeans the whole time.

[A]

I Don't love three. It definitely has some great moments. I was.

[B]

I was thinking the Mickey arc is important.

[A]

Yes, that's good. I was watching the dirtier cut of Dirty Work with some friends a couple nights ago here. You know, they put out the dirtier cut this. This week. And Norm's talking to Chevy Chase, who's the doctor who's got the gambling habit, and he's explaining why he needs this $50,000. He's like, I got a lot of people I can blame for my debt situation. You know, the Boston Red Sox, the New England Patriots, Mr. T. And he keeps going like. Norm's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait. Are you saying you bet on the fight in Rocky 3 and you bet against Rocky?

[B]

He did lose in one.

[A]

That is true, yes.

[B]

But, yeah, I. I got Rocky 4 is still good. And then Creed 1. So have you seen Creed 1 and 2 or 3?

[C]

No. I felt like I needed to see all of the Rockies before I could see Creed.

[B]

Yeah, it's true.

[A]

So what's the last movie you saw in the theaters?

[C]

Oh, you don't want to know, man. You really don't want to know.

[B]

Yeah, now I do. I'm curious now.

[A]

What does that mean?

[C]

The last time I was.

[A]

Okay. Wait, is it because it's been so long or because you think the movie really.

[C]

It's. I think the last time I was in a theater was 20. 23, maybe.

[A]

Okay. I thought you were maybe 23 pandemic or something.

[C]

I mean. No, no, but it's been, like, year. Like, literal years.

[A]

So what gets like, what is. Okay, in the last, like, five or six years, which movies got you out to the theaters?

[C]

The Batman. Definitely saw that.

[A]

Did you like that?

[C]

I liked it a lot, actually. I really, really liked that movie.

[A]

That's a long one.

[B]

There's three hours.

[C]

It is. It is a long one. But that I made a day of. It was like. I went in the morning, I went to the Nighthawk by me. It was very nice. Had breakfast.

[A]

There was cold brew by the Nighthawk. The Nighthawk's awesome. They used to do a, like, 90s movie brunch, boozy brunch thing. So I saw, like, Speed and ate brunch and had cocktails and stuff.

[C]

Yeah, it's so nice.

[A]

It's great. Goldeneye and. Yeah, it's awesome.

[C]

So I saw that. Honestly, it's a lot of, like, whenever my friends want to go to the movies and they ask me to go. So it's like, normally a lot of Marvel. It's a Lot of, like, video games, like Sonic 3. Like, it's things that I'm like, I'm not gonna go to the movies myself most of the time, but if, like, my crew is like, hey, we're going to the movies today, like, you want to come? I'm like, yeah, sure, why not? It just doesn't happen often. I haven't seen, like, a real movie in a theater in a long time.

[B]

What was the last movie you saw before the Pandemic and then the first one you saw after?

[C]

I think the last movie I saw in theaters was Birds of Prey because that was, like, right before everything shut down.

[B]

Was that Zack Snyder?

[C]

I think so. I don't remember.

[B]

It was DC related, right?

[C]

It was, yeah. It was like the Harley Quinn.

[B]

Yeah. March 2020 shutdown. And then. Do you remember the first one after?

[C]

First one might have been. That's tough.

[B]

I actually think if you don't, it's fine. I remember both. My last one was Parasite and, like, four blocks away, when we still have a movie theater, I remember it even more because that movie theater closed because of the pandemic. My first one after was Top Gun Maverick, which to this, like, is still one of the most fun in theater experiences I've ever had in my life.

[A]

And I'm glad.

[C]

That might actually been my first one back, too, now that I'm thinking of it.

[B]

A lot of people back because they're like, oh, it's. You know, the movies are back in town. Go check it out. And my. My crowd was amazing. We were. They were cheering and laughing at all the right spots. It was great.

[A]

They were smart about that.

[C]

Pandemic was what? No. Jordan Peele's night, I believe.

[B]

Nope. Was before. Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Or was it? Because almost.

[C]

I remember. I think it's post pandemic.

[A]

Yeah. 2022. Yep.

[C]

Then that was the first movie I saw back.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Saw that in the theaters. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So Top Gun Maverick was definitely not right after I. I took a bit. It was like August 2221.

[A]

But it was done, like, it was, like, ready to be released, like, near the beginning of the pandemic. And I think, like, Cruz and those guys were, like, so adamant. Like, this is a movie theater movie. So like, they just sat on that for, like, a year or two or whatever it was. And, like, that was a smart call because, like, that movies, it's not like it's gonna age. I mean, like, all the effects were, like, a lot of it was real. It wasn't even, like, cg, You Know.

[B]

Oh, it's not gonna age. I see what you're saying. I thought you're saying it's not gonna age well.

[A]

No, no, that's what I'm saying. I think it's like a pretty evergreen thing. It doesn't rely on like cg, that's gonna be like, you know, look shitty in a few years or anything. Like the themes or anything are pretty evergreen. So yeah, that was totally the right call on that. Which I think a lot of studios would not have had the patience for that. But in those crazy circumstances, it was the right call.

[B]

Yeah, agreed. I. That was also the first movie Amanda had ever seen in a drive through.

[A]

We drive in.

[B]

Drive in. Thank you. We went into a drive in summer of 22 and we'd already seen Maverick in the spring or whenever it was. And then we looked up the drive in on a drive thru. Drive in. It's not fast food. Drive in the trailer during one of the like the last 100 or so drive ins in the country. And it was playing Top Gun. So we had the rental car trunk popped, had beach chairs out, nice bottle of burgundy. I wasn't drinking burgundy when I watched Top Gun. Maverick.

[A]

That's a shotgun a beer situation, I think.

[B]

Yeah. Good thing you know how to shotgun beers.

[A]

I've done two now. The one with you in the backyard and then one with my brother in law last summer.

[B]

Nice.

[C]

Wait, you're like, this is like a new thing for you?

[A]

Yeah, Mike taught me. I was like probably 30. Mike was. When you were an intern, you were 13 or 14, right, Mike? Yeah. And we were at a party and yeah. Taught me how to shotgun a beer. I think I was always freaked out at the idea of shotgunning a beer just because like, first of all, like, I did a decent amount of beer bongs in college.

[B]

You boost a lot too, right?

[A]

That's the butt thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did a lot of the. Not a lot, but I. Occasionally we do the beer bong thing because that's just an. It's a funny thing to do. It's called a beer bong. It's just a big fucking tube going into your face. It looks stupid. It's funny, you get drunk so fast and I know a lot of those same things apply to shotgunning, but it's like I never quite understood what you had to do to the can and how. And then it's like the fact that you put your mouth on a thing that has freshly broken metal and so on. Actually, I just shotgun a beer with temturi at Ben Hansen's Lake lot this summer. So I guess I've done three now. But yeah, just putting your mouth on a jagged thing of metal always scared me. Whereas, like, the beer box is just a hose, you know?

[B]

Yeah. It's the same concept as. As how beer cans used to need to be opened in, like, the 60s or whatever. You had the. Have you ever seen old. Remember old beer or old can openers.

[A]

Had the alive in the 60s? How old do you think I am?

[B]

No, I know, but the design of the can opener lasted a while, and there probably are still some out there. But, you know, like now I think can openers all have the crank. There were the ones before it where it was just the pointed, like the point. And you would. In order to open beer cans back in the day, you needed to basically poke two holes in the top. The one hole is the same reason you have the hole in most coffee cup lids. Because without that hole, there's no air exchange because you're just suctioning your cup, your mouth to the drinking hole. So you need that second hole for the actual air exchange so oxygen can replace the liquid that you're sucking out.

[A]

So I find it difficult to understand things that you can't see.

[B]

No, I get it. I know it's weird. But like, if you, like you ever had. You know when you have a water bottle, a plastic water bottle, and you put your entire mouth around the neck and you just suck. You know how, like, you get suction to the water bottle?

[A]

Get a water bottle.

[B]

No, but that. No, that's.

[C]

This is designed to be like a plastic. Like a plastic screw cap.

[B]

Poland Spring.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Probably done it. You know how you suck it and actually the bottle, like, shrivels up like a scrotum. Yeah, that's because there's nothing replacing the liquid or the oxygen being lost. So the. So then the hole is to.

[A]

What if that was metal? The metal wouldn't, like, collapse on itself.

[B]

No. Then metal things. Still scary when you're shotgun. But like the shotgun thing, you. I showed you how to tip it over and you. You lean it in such a way. Say, this is upside down beer can. You lean it. This is the. Where you find the bubble with your can or with the. With your keys and knife.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You poke the bubble. You make a big enough hole, and you make sure you're only. You're not like, pulling metal out. You make sure you keep it pushed in. You make a big enough hole, you could shock on a beer.

[A]

I would look like fucking 2 face. If I tried to do this myself, I always need an adult to set everything.

[B]

No, I get it. It's a weird thing. And I. I also don't.

[A]

I.

[B]

It must. It's funny. I always wondered who figured out how to do this. But then you look at how beer cans used to be open and it's actually not that far fetched. People back in the day could have done this easily just by virtue of how beer cans were normally opened is my point.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But now we take for granted that the hole on a beer can is large enough where you're generally not able to close your mouth around it in.

[A]

A way that they got the big mouths now.

[B]

Yeah. But like there's enough. There's oxygen getting in around the sides of your mouth so you don't need that extra hole. Like next time you have a coffee, I put my.

[A]

I put my mouth around the entire like circular lid up top. That's how I drink soda, beers. It's the whole cake.

[C]

Yeah. Like. Like you just the who whole cast.

[A]

The whole. I just wrap it around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whole thing. Full circumference.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's off putting unhinge my jaw like a snake.

[B]

Yeah. But no, I'm glad I. I haven't shotgun a beer since then. I don't think.

[A]

Jesse, what don't you understand?

[C]

Just in life.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

What's the. What's the biggest thing that keeps you awake?

[A]

You got questions.

[B]

Oh, I.

[C]

On the.

[A]

Oh, I have a lot of questions.

[C]

No, I have a lot of questions in.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Things I don't understand. Big ones are sinkholes. Just don't understand them. Don't want. I don't know if I want to understand them.

[A]

Like in streets or sinks.

[C]

Oh, no.

[B]

Like the. Why not both. No, but the earth, the land ones.

[A]

Yeah. I guess I don't even. I've never even thought of them.

[B]

Where do you.

[C]

Quicksand. Another one.

[B]

Quicksand.

[C]

I think a lot about falling through the earth. Just.

[A]

Do you have dreams of falling through. Is this.

[C]

Do I have dreams in general?

[A]

No. Dreams about falling through things? No.

[C]

But I do think about it a lot. I feel like when I'm walking and I see a pothole, I'm like, is that. Could that be a sinkhole?

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

Should I walk around that? Where does it go?

[A]

When I was in elementary school, I was probably like fifth grade or so. There was a kid on my block, we'll say his name was Larry. And we were at the park one day and he threw a Piece of glass at my face. We found some glass on the ground in the sand. And he threw it in my face and it sliced my cheek open and it was bleeding everywhere. And went home, got cleaned up, got patched up and everything. And it might have been like the next day or something. I don't think it was the same day, but I went to the same park and I dug a hole, like a big hole.

[B]

You've heard this story.

[A]

I don't think Jesse had in this.

[B]

Wile E. Coyote response to a thing.

[A]

When I was like 10 or 11 or whatever. And so I dug deep. I'd say if I had to guess right now, 2 to 3ft, maybe it was less. But as a kid I remember thinking like, that's a big hole. And so I dug it, let's say 3 foot by 3 foot or so, maybe 2 foot by 2 foot. And then I broke off a bunch of branches from trees and I crisscrossed them. I went home, I got some paper hy vee bags. I tore them up, but not too much enough to lay them across. And then I took the shovel and I covered it up with sand. And then I went to Larry's house, I knocked on the door and I had a big band aid on my cheek and stuff. And I'm like, hey, let's race, you know, like where we can do a race. He's like, okay, so we go to the park. And I very specifically, I was like, all right, we're gonna line up here. I'm at this swing and Larry, you line up with this swing. Not a coincidence that he was lined up there and we're gonna run. And the first one to touch the slides or whatever the wins. And we get down, we go 1, 2, 3. And I, you know, I'm no athlete, but I was faster than Larry. I got past him. I turn around just as I heard just like a. And I just saw like a sand cloud pop up and he just disappeared. Larry was just gone into the hole. Crashed through all the, the sticks and everything and just laying at the bottom of a pit with sticks and ivy bags and sand all over him.

[C]

I imagine like that cartoon thing where they're running and then they realize there's a hole beneath them, but their legs are still going.

[A]

Oh yeah, yeah. Ye up. A sign that said yikes or y or whatever.

[C]

Yeah, but like, what in the cartoon ass trap did you make for this guy?

[B]

Yeah, they do that in heavyweight.

[C]

Why? Why did you do that?

[A]

I mean, cuz I wasn't a fighter. You know, I'm not gonna go challenge the man to a fist fight, but I'll use my wits.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's good. That's a good response.

[C]

Wild man.

[B]

Did you go up to the edge of the hole and laugh? I did.

[A]

Yeah. That's actually exactly what happened. He was pissed off, and I think it was maybe just an unsaid thing of, like, okay, we're even.

[B]

You know, was it deep enough, though, where his entire body disappeared in my.

[A]

Again, we're talking over 30 years ago.

[B]

Checking you. I just. Yeah. In your memory?

[A]

Was in my memory. I remember him just like. And, like, not being visible and then me walking up and seeing him.

[B]

It's way funnier if he actually just, like, vanished than if he tripped into, like, two feet. It's still funny. I'm not. Again, I'm not critiquing it, but in.

[A]

My head, I remember how I thought back then, and I definitely would have thought that, like, I want to see this guy fall into a hole, and.

[B]

It'S a room because that's a big hole.

[A]

I don't remember, but, like, I was. Look, if I set my mind to something, I always made sure to do it right.

[B]

You know what? I remember the story. I thought about it during Ghost of Yote. Have you gotten to that part yet where that guy is digging all those?

[A]

I was like, I'm there yet?

[B]

Okay, sorry.

[A]

I met the sucker punch guys. They put me in infamous, and I told them they can use my.

[B]

To that point in the game, and you're going to lose your mind laughing because I brought that up. I'm sorry to jump the gun on that one.

[A]

Many people in school called me very samurai.

[B]

Like they called you Atsu. The. The.

[A]

I was the Ghost of Holy Trinity. There's the Father, Son, the Holy Ghost, and then the. The real Ghost.

[B]

Oh, my God, I can't wait for Ghost sequel. Ghost of Kansas City.

[A]

Me and Lenexa, Kansas, in 1995.

[B]

Ghost of Dan sitting next to the.

[C]

Hole with a shami.

[B]

Just like bathing in a. In a jacuzzi, reflecting on Looney Tunes.

[A]

That probably was an inspiration. I did love Looney Tunes.

[B]

Speaking of, do you want to talk about video games?

[A]

No. Sure? Yeah. Yeah. All right.

[B]

A couple big games have come out since we last recorded, I guess, second episode in a row where we've all been playing a lot. Ghost of Yotei I want to jump into right away.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Is there anything we need to clean up first? Jesse, quick. I'm gonna like rapid fire. You Hollow knight. Silksong. What do you think in. In one sentence?

[C]

I think Hollow Knight. Silksong is diabolical in the best ways.

[B]

Okay, that's a great way.

[A]

That's a great sentence. You have one sentence to describe that game. That is a plus. Jesse Vitelli.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, it was good.

[B]

Good work. What other game did we talk about last time?

[A]

Let me scroll down. Let me scroll down.

[B]

It's basically a Silk song.

[A]

I deleted Sonic Racing Crossworld.

[B]

That was the one. Yeah.

[C]

I refuse to learn anything about the Sonic franchise. And I played 45 minutes of Sonic Racing Crossworlds and still don't know anything about the Sonic franchise.

[B]

I think I'm starting to like this guy. All right. Borderlands 4.

[A]

Borderlands 4.

[B]

I like.

[A]

I like Rapid Fire Vitali Corner.

[C]

Borderlands 4 is specifically the guy you knew in high school that never got out of his hometown, but then did and learned a little bit about his life and has now come back with a fresh perspective.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[C]

I know.

[B]

I know someone like that. All right, you want to go to go to Yote?

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

Or do you have any more Rapid Fire?

[A]

I can go all day. Clover Pit.

[B]

Oh, Clover Pit.

[C]

I don't know what the hell that is.

[A]

That's a good sentence.

[B]

Oshinobi.

[C]

I haven't played it, but it looks sick as hell.

[A]

The Minnesota State Fair.

[C]

Never been but would like to go.

[A]

Metal Gear Solid Delta.

[C]

I think the original is better. I don't think that's a hot take.

[A]

But the Legend of Breath of the Wild.

[C]

The Legend of Zelda. Breath of the Wild is a masterclass in design in letting you do whatever the fuck you want to do.

[B]

What's your favorite game of all time?

[C]

It's a toss up any day between two games. It's either Outer Wilds or Luigi's mansion for the GameCube.

[A]

Wow. Okay, that's.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, Outer Wilds. You had me.

[C]

Let me. Wait. Can I give you my pitch on Luigi's Mansion?

[A]

Yes, please do.

[B]

So.

[C]

I. So one of the reasons I love the Resident Evil franchise, specifically the. Like the early games, is mastery over a space. Learning a space and figuring out the best ways to maneuver around it and use the systems at your disposal to give yourself the advantage. Luigi's Mansion is a Resident Evil game in everything but name. If you really think about it, it is mastery over that space and so specific.

[A]

Like being in a mansion and you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If you want to take it like at face value, absolutely. But I do think there is that progression that you get in Luigi's mansion that you get in a Resident Evil game.

[B]

We've talked about this before, and I feel like maybe you could relate. I didn't know you were super into Resident Evil because I am. My favorite video games and movies often take place in a very confined setting. It's almost like a stage play, like Resident Evil. Like, to your point, you're mastering a space. It's like this one set that you're kind of like getting to know intimately as opposed to this, like, globetrotting adventure. Resident Evil. Yeah. Spencer Mansion, Raccoon City Police Department. I'm.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

That's right up my alley. I love that.

[C]

Yeah. The bad thing about Resident Evil is they always have to end up at like a lab or like a new space by the end. It's like, no, let me just stay in the old space. Like, it's cool.

[B]

Like, the village is the coolest and then the castle's less cool and then the fucking worse.

[C]

Prison island. Suc island is the word on this.

[A]

Podcast that we talked about this recently.

[B]

Mary and I just recently finished up for remake for Knievel. And yes, I like the remake. Not only did it not improved, it reinforced how bad the last third of that game is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Even though the village and the Castle to some extent, but especially the village are good enough, where it's still cemented in so many of our minds as one of the best games ever. Because it's really, really, really good up front.

[C]

The game should end at the castle.

[A]

End at the castle and just be like, what would that be like a 10 hour game at that point?

[B]

Something like that. Yeah. Because then it becomes 1618 with the. It's not just military island zombies with guns I and armor Shore. Whatever. It's that the island has. Like, they're all like at the. The button for the garage door. They're like, oh. And then it's opening, closing. And like, I don't. That. That I don't need. And I didn't want. And I still don't want the remake. All right. But yeah. Ghost of Yote are. Have we all played it? All three of us?

[A]

Yeah. I'm like 10 hours in now.

[B]

Okay. I'm far. How many.

[A]

Okay. It's. People know. Okay.

[B]

We say this a lot. Spoiler spoil. Okay, let me say this, let me say this. And I'm not the first one to mention this. It is very, very funny to me how similar the premises for Assassin's Creed Shadows and Ghosts of Yote are also the vibes Spaghetti Western. Like Music like Ennio Morricone Kill Bill set in Japan, a certain number of masked enemies kills people important to you. And you're you set off on this revenge tale. Assassin's Creed Shadows obviously introduces another playable character. Yote is very much just like again, won't spoil anything. Just as it goes. It obviously changes format, but it's generally, you're hunting down the Yote Six, which are. It's this band of outlaws, kind of almost ronin, who lost this huge battle down the south. And they go to one of the northernmost islands. And you learn Atsu early on, she loses her family's farm, gets attacked because of some past transgression of her of her dad. And then you're hunting down the people who did it. And you are this kind of come back to life. You're seen as this local folk legend.

[A]

Like, are you a ghost? Yeah.

[B]

The onry. Yeah. And she, as opposed to June from the first game, he is literally like a disgraced samurai. And the a big part of that game is what is honorable to defeat your enemies. Like if sneaking up and stabbing them back, is that honorable? Is like, is there a means to an end where you're still a samurai? Are you just a ronin? Are you this dishonored person wandering the land if you're doing this like shady shit? Yotei right off the bat is like, she does not give a fuck. She's not a samurai. She is out for revenge. She learned, she hones her skills in a war down south. Big battle, comes back north. Texas, yeah, the Alamo comes back north to hunt down the Yote Six, mainly this one dude, Lord Saito. And yeah, from there you're set out on in Yotei to go hunt them down. And you're gathering info about them. You're interrogating people. I, I want to say this. I, I, I, I, I really, really don't like being hyperbolic this early in a game's life cycle. I do think Ghost of Yote is one of the top three most beautiful games I've ever played.

[A]

I mean, it might be the most.

[B]

Beautiful game I've ever played.

[A]

I had that feeling immediately too. Especially when it does the big kind of like title card sequence and stuff. Kind of after the prologue that sets things up and you're, and just, you're just seeing these mountains still.

[B]

The Akira Kurosawa stuff. You're following the wind currents you are riding through. There's certain colors of flowers that speed you up more. But immediately it's like, it's that kind of Like Breath of the Wild in the Distance had that watercolor facade in the background. Breath of the Wild, like, technically speaking, is not that good looking of a game in the distance at all. But Ghost of Yote, immediately the color palette reminded me of Assassin's Creed origins in the way you have these pops of color and you do start in like a grassland. You're literally in the, I think the grasslands of Yote, they call. Or there's some the something grasslands. And they. This game, more than Ghost of Sushima does start throwing you into much more varied biomes pretty quickly. If you.

[A]

Yeah, mine is very like autumnal right now. Where I am, it's all just kind of like red and yellow leaves.

[B]

Okay, cool. So they do do a Zelda thing at some point where they're like, okay, you. You can go to this part of the map to hunt this person. You can go to that part of the map to hunt that person. So I have been asking people where they're going first. Sounds like I went to a different one than you.

[A]

So that's the thing is like, I, you know, obviously Breath of the Wild gets every game gets compared to it now. But like, I couldn't help but think of it here because I feel like Tsushima was more kind of that old open world style game of like, you know, gta, oh, you can get to this next island when the bridges get fixed. You know, it's like, oh, you. You get to this defined point in the story and then this other part of the map opens up. Whereas this makes me feel more like Breath of the Wild, where it's like Breath of the Wild had the four divine beasts and it's like, hey, go at it. Whatever you want to do. This was like you established the Yote 6 and then like, I think it's so cool and just like riding around the map and whether it's like people in a town, like a marketplace and stuff, or you're just like riding through the woods and you come across something and you're just kind of picking up all this information and clues and things like that. And it's very much like you were kind of filling in clues about like, okay, this guy is somewhere in these mountains. Oh, this guy. I heard the bartender over here might know something about that. And so you are picking this thing. It's almost like a corkboard type situation, you know, where it's like, okay, I'm starting to get a. I'm getting a bead on where this dude is. This dude's definitely here. Whereas this guy's in generally in the east or whatever and you can choose which one to go after. And the map is so smartly designed where you go to the map, it looks beautiful. Just the, the style of the, the map is fantastic.

[B]

The map itself is like yeah, it's all hand drawn off off of where you've explored. Similar to weirdly Civilization 6 did that thing when you had the fog of war is a hand drawn map. When you haven't actually revealed it. It reminds me of that weirdly it's.

[A]

A lot of like ink blots and lines and things like that. And you will get these cards that basically like okay, so I'm looking at the cards now that are clearly main story. Like they're yellow. These are the people from the Yote 6. But then there's the ones where it's just straight up bounties you pulled off a board. Here's myths about the area where it's just like oh, legend tells that this thing is over here.

[B]

Yokai make weird noises in these woods over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So like it's so conducive to just like getting on your horse or running around and just finding a thread and following that and like you will inevitably like it doesn't feel like empty space even though it is a lot of the fields and things like that. Like I do feel like if I ride in any direction for a couple minutes I'm gonna pick up on some thread that I'm gonna get curious about and on the way there I will run into three things. Whether it's like a bamboo thing that'll upgrade this or or a hot springs that'll upgrade my maximum health. There's just like or you know the bird thing that they had in Sushimo. It's oh, a golden bird comes down. Like I'm gonna follow this guy or a fox leads me to this little cave. Like it's remarkable how much stuff they fit into what on the surface looks like a bunch of feel, you know.

[B]

Yeah. And I, I, I, I still think and I don't know how you would avoid this in a game like this but like I, I, I think I'm 25 hours in and there's a point at which it does start feeling repetitive and a bit rote where you're like okay, I'll go do the okay, there's a hot spring there. I'll go do it so I can rank up my max health. Okay, there's a bamboo thing which I still find these mini games I'll call them. I, I don't mean that in a derogatory sense but generally SPE are more like the bamboo especially is a quick time event which I still find them very fun.

[A]

Or the cooking gimmicks like.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's. It's all. And also this game I'll get to. It's got remind. I think it has Red Dead 2 influences in a funny way that I.

[A]

Will get to brought that up in our quick look. But I think this does it better than that.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like at a certain point, at the point I'm at the game, I am starting to be a bit fatigued with the side stuff and. And that's unavoidable and it's still. It's going to be there and it's up to me to engage with it or not. Not. It is hard for me for the yellow bird to come down and not follow it and then all of a sudden it's like oh, it's. It's a. It's a fox then. So I'm gonna follow this fox for a bit and I'll get a charm. They'll be okay. However, I also think I just mentioned there are some Red Dead Redemption two elements where they're having to do a lot with the touchpad which when people tell me that I tend to get turned off. I don't. I don't normally like that but it's deployed in a way where it reminds me of Red Dead 2 where it's like. Like this game does kind of force you to slow down and be present in these little moments. Like for instance, you have to light anytime you light a fire. If you make camp or you find a fire and you have. Because you can make camp and then summon many of the craftsmen to you.

[A]

Instead of going to.

[B]

Instead of going to where they are in the towns and they show you again on really gorgeous menus in this game. They'll show you like your wolf pack which sounds like. Sounds dumb but then like there is the wolf aspect which is also unique to Atsu that Jin didn't have. But you know, some of these people you have to. You have to manually hit strike the flint on these tinder piles and then.

[A]

Breathe every time though. Like that is a setting too. You can have it set to like every time. Oh, I never changed that. Or I think the default is like some of the time. So in fact we were recording the quick look today or yesterday for this and I wanted to show Grub the like blowing into the microphone on the controller stuff and everything.

[B]

I didn't know you could do that. I, I always did the R2 blowing.

[A]

Well, the thing is, I had to figure that out because, like, I looked. The accessibility options are kind of crazy in this. You can like turn off the golden bird. You can do all sorts of little tweaks and stuff like that. But I couldn't get the blowing into the microphone thing to work. And then I realized I don't think I've ever had my PS5 microphone unmuted. I just had to unmute it with that button and then you just blow into it. But yeah, your trackpad to like, you know, putting the, the flint on the thing and then to kind of like make it go up. And then when Phantom turning the, the controller to like turn the mushrooms and.

[B]

The fish over, you're lowering the controller and then you're, what else are you doing? You are, when you're painting the, doing like the, the watercolor paintings, you're, you're just tracing lines and whatnot. And those things do kind of force you to slow down. But I did find myself getting into a routine where I was trying the story. I actually really, really I, I think this open world story is incredible. I, I, it does, it builds momentum. Well, as Atsu, I, I love her as a character because I think my measure of a good character in an open world game is how much do I kind of just incidentally want to role play as them. And there's times with her, it's not a role playing game, it's an act. I mean, it's an action quote unquote rpg, right? There's progression, but it's not a role playing game in the sense of Baldur's Gate 3. It's a role playing game in the sense that they do build this sucker punch is fleshing this character out. And I have gotten so into her character that I'm not thinking, what do I want to do? I am thinking, like, what would Atsu do in this situation? And I'm like, oh, they've kind of got their hooks in me because I would like to just go into this camp and like, I'll pick people off one by one, stealthily, because that's how I play most games that give me stealth options. But as her, it's like, well, I just found this legendary armor that now is supposedly making me this fearsome character. I also just fought this, like, folk legend. And I love this game. Every time you kill someone on one of these big side quests, you get basically like, Some like a mask or some trophy of theirs. So I love the fact that she's on this revenge quest and like trying to scare all of her enemies in this entire region. So I'll always kind of in character wear the last. The mask of the last person I killed. Because they. Every time you. You do enter a tavern or whatever, they'll be like, did you hear that's the Onrio like murdered that person. So I like walking into these taverns wearing the mask of that dude that I up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that's very cool to me. And her whole thing is you start to build out these abilities that are separate from her weapon skills where she. There's a bit more supernatural bent to this game that Sushima had a bit of it, but this one you can do like abilities that are literally like onreo spirits howling at enemies and terrifying them, which they're. It's more magical realism in that regard. But you also have a wolf that's coming along with you. You can upgrade the wolf abilities. And this game is just very much. I think it feels like Sucker Punch had a bit more fun making this game than Tsushima, which I'm putting words in their mouth. I don't know that for a fact, but it does really. This game's less afraid to kind of let go of the reins and let things get a bit weird. But I am really just often role playing as Otsu in a way that I haven't cared about a character in an open world game this much in a while. It feels like I'm playing Kill Bill if it was set during this specific time period in Japan.

[A]

Yeah, you mentioned that, like wanting to role play as her and that. That's something I kind of learned with Red Dead 2. And maybe one of the reasons I didn't love it the first time around is like, I don't know. I just started that game and I was like, all right, my Arthur is going to be this rooting, tooting, loose cannon cowboy. I'm just going to go in here and shoot this place up. And you know. But then like the story was very much at odds with that, where he was this like, guy who's coming to terms with mortality and the changing world around him and stuff. And it didn't really work with the way I was playing him. And so this one, I am kind of more like, you know, you get a sense of who this character is pretty, pretty early on. And like, I am just like, you know, you'll come across a bunch of dead bodies or whatever. And this guy will be like, hey, don't, don't, you know, desecrate their graves and steal their stuff or whatever. And you can choose to like, you know, oh, I'm gonna kill this guy and steal this. Or it's like, oh, you're right, I'm sorry. Here, here's money for your village in exchange for these. And so like, and so I try to kind of like do, do the right thing, but also be a, you know, terror to all of my enemies and stuff like that to kind of be congruous with that character in the story. So that has been working for me for sure. I'm curious, Jesse, have you, did you. What's your history with like Sushima? Did you play that?

[C]

So I played Sushima all the way through. It's one of those games where I enjoyed it at the time and like I cleared the map. Like I did everything I could possibly do in that game and then I never really thought about it again. And I don't mean that as like a slight. It was just I had my fun with it and I kind of moved on. And when they announced Yotei, I was like, yep, that makes sense. I totally understand why they would make another one of those. And I've seen like small bits of that game and I've read reviews and watched some of like the Digital Foundry stuff on it. And like that game is gorgeous, like just flat out like you were talking about. But I'm excited. It's currently downloading on my PlayStation right now.

[B]

Yeah, they've switched up some things too from Tsushima. Tsushima was very much about his stance in the weapons, like combat certain. Now you actually get different weapon types. And I will say another thing I love about this game, there is some sort of lore backstory, like large or. Sorry, like wider context to almost every weapon or armor set you collect. Very seldom do you actually just like find a random armor set in a chest in the middle of nowhere. Often it's this very compelling side quests leading up to it. So once you finally get it, and again to the role playing aspect, you kind of are wearing it in these situations. You're like, I get how the legend of this armor that has these otherworldly abilities kind of factors into the context right now. Same with the weapons. And you're not just finding a random weapon or just going to a dungeon and opening a chest and finding this weapon. And you're specifically meeting this like hermit who was defeated a while ago and now is crippled, but he has that Weapon still. And he's training you in this weapon. So there's training sequences where you're not immediately good with a weapon. And it doesn't just say like hey, square, square, triangle will be a combo or square, square, square or triangle, triangle, triangle. It's like there's a storyline leading up to it where that the person who's a master with that weapon is very much like teaching you how to use it it. And I think Sucker Punch does some cool things with it. Sounds stupid but like with the controller that. Yeah, like I, yeah, that stuff I. I showed him. I told Amanda I was like, hey, Amanda's left handed. I was like, hey, there's a part in this game where Sucker Punch, you know how you're doing the bamboo cuts. They're doing one that's very hard during the training sequence for a weapon. And I was like, I noticed, oh, it's all on my left hand on the controller, which is very rare. And I was like, are they assuming I'm right handed? Because most people are gonna be and they're making it hard. So then of course you try that and then the next day you wake up and it has gotten a bit easier and you're using your right hand more. I'm like, oh. They're actually like trying to convey that ATSU is getting better at this and it's so. It's easier for me.

[A]

Which is so cool montage just through like the button prompts. Yes.

[B]

It becomes like a Rocky movie at a certain point in this game set to like again any Amorones esque soundtrack. Like a Kill Bill character or an ISI character. And it's fucking like that. I don't know. That game does so many clever things storytelling wise. Like as it ties into the gameplay that I'm like this, this is all rad. And I'm very like there's a propulsion to the story and it within the context of the open world that I don't know the last time I felt that in a. In a while.

[A]

Yeah. And some of the things like do feel I guess gimmicky. But I don't ever really say that in a bad way for sure. Where it's like a lot of times you just go to a menu and it's like I have X of X. I have to press X and upgrade my sword in this one. Like you do it. But then it's like you're at your father's forge and you're literally taking the dual sense and you're like like the, the heated sword you're banging down and you got to press a button to reheat it, observing to flip it over and start banging it. Like so you were watching the metal kind of like get hot and, and form into the new sword. It's like it is, yes, it's a hardware gimmick, but it's like it's I, I kind of like this. This works.

[B]

It's a gimmick put to good use because again like when you're cooking you're, you are supposed to I think kind of be like meant you're when you're camping and cooking. I do think it's supposed to be like a moment of just like chilling out. They're assuming, I think they're assuming you've been chasing hot springs or yellow birds or like again I, I, I, I, I really, really want to be careful not to spoil any main story things because this game is so good along its golden path. But anytime you're hunting one of the Yote Six or two or whatever it is, it's all drastically different in the way that if you're looking at like a Zelda game, which I always, I always mentioned Zelda Horizon Forbidden west did the same thing where you get to a certain point and they're like okay, well there's this enemy. Borderlands 4 did it. They're like, there's this enemy in this biome. You can go hunt them if you want. There's this enemy in this biome. Go there first if you want. Yote does such a great job structurally speaking in like narrative design of, of switching up the golden path in each of those areas where when you're hunting this one person in the snowy area, it's very much about like you're, you're being hunted most of that time. But then you go here and it's like very much like this war torn area and it's just this brutalized countryside where they're trying to build up this stronghold. So it's all like being logged there. You can kind of be more brute force. But then you go down to the quieter part of the map and everything just, just weaves back in on itself in terms of the vibes of the world as it pertains to the story being told. I like it's, it's funny if you it back of the box wise, there's not a ton different from Tsushima. Like sure they, there are a few. You don't have stances anymore. You actually have different weapons. She plays differently than June. You have a wolf with you now. But, like, taken as a whole, it flows so much better than Tsushima, I think. And I love Sushima, to be clear. I don't. I don't think. I don't think that was a terrible game they needed to improve on that much. But I. I like Yote quite a bit and I like this. The first open world game in a while outside of work purposes. I've wanted. I've committed to, like, finishing because. And for the story, which I. Again, the last time that happened was probably Witcher 3, where I was just finishing the. The open world game for the story. But, like, yeah, I don't know. I like Yote quite a bit. OTU's awesome, that game is. I've used. I. I can't help but use photo mode every 10 minutes. It's.

[A]

It's like, maybe the best photo mode I've ever seen. Yeah. Like, both in terms of, like, the game is so conducive to it because it's so gorgeous, but also the. The level of like, okay, I want burning embers in the sky and there's. There's Aurora Borealis behind me and, you know, the usual expression stuff and all that stuff, but, like, it just looks unbelievable.

[B]

Yep, it's really good. I like Yote quite a bit. Yeah. Jesse, if you. If you get the chance to play it, play it.

[C]

I am excited. And I thought I'd be burned after finishing Assassin's Creed Shadows because I'm like, I feel like I just did this. Oh, you know, there's different. Yeah.

[B]

Did you like. Was that. Are you a completionist or did you really. Were you just liking that game quite a bit? It.

[C]

I was freelancing guides for it, and so I had to finish it. I didn't really have the option.

[B]

That was the option C. I should have mentioned.

[C]

So not only that, but it was going up and down the map, making sure I've seen every icon, doing most of them. It was the.

[B]

And I like that game. To be clear, I liked Shadows for what it was worth, but Yotei just ties it all together so much. Quite a bit better.

[A]

Yeah. Jesse, we've never, like, I think dove deep on this or anything, but, like, I have. I've always been fascinated because, like, guides, I mean, you came from Prima and Guides. Writing that is an aspect of games media and games coverage I've never done. I've always just wondered what that process is like, especially in today's landscape, where it's like, okay, well, this new big game, Silksong, launches And we expect you know, 60 different guides about every, you know, place you can find a rosary thing or whatever. Like is that. Yeah, because reviewing a game, you know, we were talking actually before we recorded here, you know, you're, you review JRPGs and stuff. That's 40, 50 plus hours and stuff. Like if, what does that equate to? And like if you're writing a full on guide for something. How many hours are we talking about here? How, how deep do you have to go?

[C]

It really depends. It depends on a lot of factors and like it's kind of a cop out answer but depends on the game. It depends on the team you're working with. Because like I've, I've worked with my team when I was at Primo. Fortunately my team at Restart, I've freelance where I'm just like a small part of a bigger puzzle. Like IGN's got a whole different operation going on over there because they've got a lot of people on these projects. But I mean it's, it's intensive because you're taking notes on everything because a lot of the times you don't know if something's important or not because like there are a lot of quest lines in Silksong, right? Or like a, like Elden Ring was a big one where it's like I Talked to this NPC, this might be important 10 hours from now. I don't know.

[A]

Nothing at all.

[C]

Yeah, there's no. Because when you're the one writing the guides, you can't consult guides because they don't exist yet. So you're playing these games in a vacuum where if you get stuck you can maybe ask the developer maybe, but really you can't. And so it's a lot of like, it's very collaborative in that regard because it has to be because people are exchanging information with one another because that's all you've got.

[A]

Were you ever on? You know, because Prima, when I think of Prima, I think about the old, you know, just full big chunky strategy guides we tried to sell at Funko Land back in the day. You know, like were you doing print ever or was it more like, like dedicated? Like okay, so this is a URL for how to find every one of these and this is this. And how many were comprehensive walkthroughs that you were doing?

[C]

So we did one print guide while I was there. I co wrote it with my buddy Lucas White who was also there at the time for Axiom Verge 1 and 2. So it's what it was one package. It was packaged with limited run. It was like a pre order, like pre order only. It was the last physical Prima guide to ever exist. Probably will be the last physical Prima God to ever exist. And that one was tricky because Axiom Verse two wasn't out yet and it was still in active development. Like we were doing this like months before that game came out because it was. It was to go up like alongside it. And so we would do like whole sections of that game and then Thomas Hap would email us be like, I actually changed that entire section. And so we would just like delete the Google Doc and like start again.

[A]

Do you remember? I can remember if it was Prima, but do you remember the story of like mortal Kombat? Was it 9? The reboot one? It was after the DC universe thing. And they sent out the strategy guide Again, can't remember if it was Prima or not, but it had everything is, you know, oh, the fatality inputs and stage fatalities and all this very specific, like, here's how you do this move.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then before it came out, everything changed. So like, if you bought that strategy guide, you had to like email a thing and they would send you a bunch of like little like glossy flashcards. Like, oh, sorry, here's the actual Fatality thing. Like, yeah, that seems crazy.

[C]

That was back during the time. I mean, I. Obviously I wasn't around for that. But that was back during the time where. Where people from Prima would actually go to studios and get like a day with the game and just do whatever they wanted to do for, you know, handful of hours. Be able to take all their notes, screenshots, get all their stuff. And then they'd leave and they'd be like, put in like a room and they'd be like, okay, here's your, you know, build. We're gonna have somebody sitting here so you don't like steal anything or break anything. And then you'd have. Here you have eight hours, like get all the information you want, essentially. So I think Mortal Kombat was one of those cases. Like a lot of the, like Naruto, Ninja Storm game, stuff like that. But like modern day guides is a lot of like SEO targeted stuff. So it's like, what are people specifically Googling and how do we title a game or title an article specifically like that. So it is a lot of like, what does the F in Silent Hill F mean? You know, like, like you're. That's the kind of stuff, you know.

[B]

Build in Elden Ring.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Or yeah, like certain Games like Silksong, more than anything I've seen in probably a few years is the most like. Like, I found myself going to a lot of like, all right, how do I unlock Act 3? What do I do? Like, what does this NPC do? Like, that is so conducive because the game itself is so not pointing you towards things that like, at a certain point it's like, I'm just gonna look this up. So there are so many fucking Silksong guides right now.

[C]

Yeah, it's. It's everything. I did like comprehensive monster hunter guides for wilds of like weapons. So it was like cataloging all the weapon, weapon details, materials, how to get them, putting them in tables. Like guides work is all over the place. Like, it really depends on the game. But yeah, so I did that for Shadows and that's how I ended up playing not only all of the main story, but all of the side content in the side screen Shadows.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How many hours do you think you put into shadows?

[C]

Close to 100.

[A]

Okay, maybe you were just like mainlining the story, like playing it at a standard pace. What is that, like a 50 hour game?

[C]

I think about half that, I would say.

[A]

Okay, makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I played a fair amount of it.

[C]

And I like it.

[B]

But I've also started Hades 2 and I'm committed to finishing Go to Yote, but I've played enough of Hades 2 to get the ball rolling. But I think both of you probably played more than I have. I'm like three hours in.

[A]

Jesse, how about you? Where are you at?

[C]

I am on the route for the True ending. It's a little bit more of a grind than I had anticipated, but so almost there.

[A]

I wonder. I think you might be past me then, so I'll speak somewhat generally here. Yeah, don't.

[B]

Don't spoil this game because.

[C]

Have you seen Credits?

[A]

I have not.

[C]

Then you were. Okay then.

[A]

Okay, but I'll say I feel like I'm close to something resembling Credits. Like. So, Mike, I don't. I don't think it's a spoiler. Like when you walk to go out, you see that there's a go up. Right.

[B]

So in the, in the. From her. The camp, basically. Yeah.

[A]

Yes. From the Hub World. So I beat the final boss of Going out and this morning I beat the final boss or, you know, of going up, at least the final boss, as I can see it now. So there's a big boss fight after Going up and so like, obviously I haven't seen credits. There's still talk of like, okay, well, that guy, when you go down is still around, you know, so, like, what do I need to do to finish him off? I'm still expanding the hub. There's still a ton of stuff obviously I can unlock and everything. So like, Jesse, based on what I'm saying there, like, so you've beaten.

[C]

You've beaten up. You haven't beaten down yet or you have.

[A]

I beat down, then I beat up.

[C]

You have.

[B]

A head.

[C]

You have quite a few runs ahead of you.

[A]

Okay, I'm fine with that.

[C]

It is. And I don't think it's a spoiler to say it's kind of operates similar to the way that the first game does where, like, sure, it is a set number of completion that helps push that. That final chunk along. So you have to do a handful more runs down there. You'll have to do a handful more runs up there. And then you'll have to do some stuff around the hub. And then you'll, You'll. You'll know when it's. It's.

[A]

And I assumed it would be a little different each time. Like, okay, now that I beat that, now this is different over here. Like, it seems like that's kind of.

[C]

The narrative will, like, push along and you'll know. You'll know.

[A]

It doesn't feel like it's. It's done by any means, but it feels like I've definitely, like, knock down a couple big obstacles on the way there.

[C]

Yeah. And there's a lot there. Like, the crossroads is so expansive. So I'm interested. Did you start playing 1.0 or were you playing Early Access?

[A]

So when it first came out in 1.0 and people, because I was adamant about, like, I'm not touching this until it's 1.0, because that's how I did the first one. I was happy I did it that way. I would much rather play the kind of complete thing than a bunch of stuff along the way. People were like, oh, you know, the. The two is even in the, like, early version. Early Access is like, there's a lot there or whatever. And I played like maybe an hour of it when it first launched on Early Access. And I was like, I can tell this is very good. I can tell there's a lot here. And it's not. This does not feel like a, you know, preview build or anything like this. This feels, you know, whatever. But I still told myself, like, I was so happy I waited with the first one that I'm gonna do it again here. I very much support like early access. I think the early access process leads to something as polished as Hades to releasing in the form it's at. But just as a player, I prefer to just wait and then have this whole big, almost overwhelming, you know, package, you know, and I'm glad I did. So that's all to say. Played about an hour, put it aside for a year and a half, and now I'm just playing 1.0.

[C]

That's what I wish I did. And I told myself I was going to do. And then they dropped 1.0 and I went, oh, I'll just. I'll just boot it up. I'll just see what it looks like. When they did the first early access launch, it's like, I'll just boot it up. I'll see what's going on. And then, like, I blinked in, like 30 hours went by and I was like, oh, I made the mistake. I said I wasn't going to. And then I was like, okay, no more, no more. Not until 1.0. And then they dropped the next update and same thing happened. And so I came into Hades 2 a little bit. Like, I came into 1.0 in a weird spot where I had, like, an excess of a lot of materials and a lot of stuff because I had just been playing and grinding at a point where, like, there was nothing to spend any of this on because I had maxed out everything that I could do. So I've had like a.

[A]

What were they adding along the way? Like, was it missing boss fights? Was it missing whole sections, like, along the way, you know?

[C]

So early Access launched with the entire Underworld fleshed, fleshed out, like, final boss was there, like, everything. But the upper world only had two zones of the. The multiple that are in there now.

[A]

Got it.

[C]

And it didn't have it. So they added two, like two bosses, they added zones, they added a new weapon, they added. Added a bunch of other stuff, like a bunch of the upgrades around the crossroads. Only a handful of them were in. They added that there were characters that weren't showing up yet. There was. There was like, literal, like, placeholder art in the early access version that got updated. You know, they did a pass. They added, I think one of the updates added something like 30 or 40 music tracks to the game. Like, they. They really kept. You know, those updates were very substantial. But the thing I love about Hades 2 is that, that it kind of expects you to have played the first game mechanically. Like, like, there's not a lot there that, like, really eases you into that experience. But it's also almost like it's built to sort of, like, sidestep all of your knowledge of the first game. Because it's like, Zagreus plays a very specific way. He's a very, like, get in there. You know, beat him up. Milena Way is like, she's got magic, she's got the Omega moves. It's like, this is a different character who's going to operate around the field differently. And you can build into a playstyle that plays like the first game. But inherently, those first two weapons, we're giving you the witch's staff and the sister blades, they've got more range to them. Her cast is different. It's an AOE around you. It's meant to ensnare enemies. They want you to be a little more strategic with her because she's a more strategic character in this world. She's thinking about things differently than Zagreus, but. And I like the way in which Hades 2's combat sort of tries to go around your initial knowledge of that first game, but also still kind of expects you to know how to play this game and know when the right time is to, like, what builds to go for and how these things work around themselves. It's really fascinating because I think the experimentation period with Hades 2 has been fascinating of just like, I thought I had, like, a solid build. I was like, I use the axe. I can sweep across the field and just destroy enemies. But then I go on like, speedrun.com and I'm like, okay, what are the. What are the speedrunners using? Like, what's the cool Strat? And they use the skull. And I think the skull is, like, the worst weapon.

[A]

I hate to pick up your ammo.

[B]

I don't even see a skull on mine.

[A]

You probably don't have it.

[B]

It'll probably. But, like, they. They show me the ones I have not unlocked yet, but there's definitely, like, two. Two. I don't even see in the unlocked or locked options or whatever.

[A]

It's like the wood second to last one, I think.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like you have to pick up.

[B]

The ammo when you first see the. The weapon options. There's six circles.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

On the menu. I only even see four. So, like, they have not added. So I was worried I was still in, like, a past build, but I just use whatever.

[C]

No, I think it's just a thing of, like, as you.

[B]

It hasn't even, like, shown up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

I've used that skull.

[B]

The skull definitely has I've read briefly that that plays. I've only used the sister blades and the staff so far.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I do. My mains are the sister blades and the axe. And, like, the ax is like. Okay. The only real downside to it for me is that, like, it's sl. Slow, so, you know, you boost the attack speed on that. And I've also gotten boons where, like, it basically makes it like a 360 swing around you. So you can make some broken builds in the best way with the ax. But, like, there are a couple I tried once and like. Like the gun or the skull gun, and the. The two, like, torches. Like, I used those once and I was like, I don't like these. Like them. Occasionally I'll do the staff, but almost always it's the sister blades, the. The axe or. Or the last one that I just got, which I don't want to spoil, but it's.

[C]

Yeah, we won't spoil. But is wild. Like, just truly.

[A]

It's pretty cool.

[C]

Which in the same ways that the first Hades. Like, the last weapon you get in that game is. Is the. The rail. Like that. The gun. Like it. It's wild.

[B]

Yeah. It's got the artillery shot for its special. Yeah. Then the machine gun for us.

[C]

So weird.

[A]

Yeah. Just you were. You were mentioning the first one and how that worked. And, like, I totally forgot. We were talking about on the bomb cast, where it's like, I forgot the cast was just that diamond thing. Yeah.

[C]

You shoot the.

[B]

They collect it to get the ammo back.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I've totally forgot that's how that worked. But then you mentioned the charge, like the omega attacks and stuff. Did the first one have the omega attacks?

[C]

No.

[A]

Okay, so you didn't.

[C]

You didn't have a magic. The magic meter is new.

[B]

There was no MP meter.

[A]

Oh, just the straight up MP is new. Yeah. So that. Yeah. Strategic. Like, you're talking about Millenna Way having more, like, strategy tour. Like, I think about every time I start the fight with the sirens, and it's like, all right. I dash between the main lady in the shell and the drummer, drop down a cast where it's like, you know, I got lightning or whatever there and then I'm going over there and I'm beating the fuck out of the guitarist and stuff. Like, there is totally a strategy that I go into with each of these battles that I love. And I. You're right. I don't remember having that feeling with the first one. Like, the first one's fucking incredible. But I Do think this one is pretty much better in every way?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was going to ask. Like, I'm not that far in. And I'm asking this more to play devil's advocate. I don't think every sequel needs to like fucking completely upend its predecessor. I. So far it feels like more Hades to me. And like she plays extremely differently, for sure. And I don't think that's a bad thing because that's kind of what I wanted. Does it. Is it taking drastic steps away from the first game? Whether it's like, structurally as you're in the progression or is it largely just as a result of the way Melinoi plays with different weapons or how she kind of builds her skills or. Or is it just a slight. Like a different variation on the first game in a. A fun way. Which is fine.

[C]

It's a lot of variation. I think there are expansions in ways. I think there's a lot of experimentation, which is, I think the word I would use to describe it. I think some. There are two zones in particular that are structured drastically different than anything in the first game. And it's more of a. Like you have more agency over where you want to go and what you want to pick up and sort of how you want to navigate that space. And I think. Think moments like that are really interesting. And I think it's full of little moments like that where it's just like, here's an idea that we've kind of twisted or we've really just kind of taken this time to experiment with something completely different. But at the end of the day, like, you're still getting your permanent upgrades the same way you did through the. The Mirror of Night. Like this time it's the Arcana cards. You're still upgrading your. Your home base, the Crossroads. In this one, you're still talking to characters and giving them nectar and ambrosia and Social Link. You're still using six different weapons. You're still getting keepsakes from all the different characters that give you different variations throughout your run. All of that is still there. The foundation is the same. And honestly, I think the theming of the story is also pretty similar. Obviously the stakes have been escalated tremendously from the first game where the first one's about reuniting your family and figuring out what's going on. The second one is Shit's Bad Man.

[B]

Everything's a revenge story.

[C]

We have to figure this out. And it's kind of on millenno way to solve all of the problems and. But at the same time, it is like kind of this story of living forever doesn't have to be miserable because so many times when you're talking about like the Greek pantheon, it's all of these gods being selfish and hating each other and everyone's mad at everyone and someone's killing somebody and something's happening. But it's kind of nice to have a sort of situation where it's like, you know, there's still selfish motives for a lot of these characters and there's still pain and anguish there that's being explored. But it is nice to have a story that's like, you know what? We're like actually going to be pretty helpful to each other and like, at the end of the day, hopefully be a little bit better to each other. And that's something. There's something nice about that. And I think it fits thematically with the first one, which is sort of this story that ends on like a very hopeful note, despite it being about the God of the underworld. So I do appreciate that about it.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like it's. If somebody just didn't click with the first one at all as far as just the format and how it all works and the tone and the story and everything, I don't think that there's such a huge change with two that's like, well, you're gonna love this one. Like, there definitely are those sequels where it's like, oh, yeah, this is totally different. This is similar. I think it's better. I think it offers more. I love just having the options of like, you know, you know, now I'm more specifically like, okay, I'm trying to get to the go up boss or the go down boss or whatever, but like, there's that kind of middle again. Once you're a few hours in, it's like, I love going up there and being like, okay, I guess I'll. I'll give this another shot. I'll go down there and, okay, I'll try this weapon here and I'll go up there and then you can do the things where, you know, you add the, the modifiers. It's like the halo skulls, you know, like, make this harder and everything. Like, it's fun just like deciding early on, like what kind of run you want to have have. And then as your build kind of progresses, as you go through the zones, being like, okay, well, I guess it's gonna be this type of run. My cast is super overpowered or I'm doing all week or lightning based powers or whatever and just Seeing the way these runs progress, but it's not that different than that in, in the first game. I just think it's, it's all expanded upon in a big way.

[B]

Yeah, it's hooked me hard in the first couple hours. Like, that's the only thing that's really like, pulled me away from Ghost of Yote. And again, I want, I'm gonna finish Gosa yote, but like Hades 2 is. I knew I shouldn't have started it, but I played a few hours just so I could talk about it at least in the intro tonight. No. Yeah, it feels amazing. I'm already very, I'm very, like, intrigued by the different characters at the camp, like Nemesis. I, I appreciate that you can't even give her ambrosia at the beginning because she's so. You, you and her clearly have such a terrible relationship. Well, she hurt. She's Nemesis, so like, of course she's not gonna be super friendly with you. But yeah, I also appreciate returning characters. I, I like that there's new ones. I, I, I was not someone who played the first game for the story, but I thought it added a welcome layer to the story. Even though I was playing it for the gameplay, for the progression, for the loop. I, I, I, I like that those characters were compelling in their own, right outside of the loop. So, yeah, I, I'm, I'm taking the game. I just gotta, you know, I want to keep playing more. And it's completely fine if it's not revolutionizing the ideas in the first game, because I don't think it needed to. No, I think if it needed, if, if it's a refinement of the best game of 2020, then that's a pretty good start. Yeah.

[A]

Maybe the best roguelite of all time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jess. Jesse, I don't know if you know, the, the we literally for 2020, that was when we started Fire Escape and for our Game of the Year discussion, which we did remotely. I think since then we've done every game of the year in person, but I believe that was our only remote one. And I think we did two, maybe two. And, and Hades won one game of the year for us. And we literally, I don't think said the name Hades until the very end when we announced it. It. And we didn't talk about the whole.

[A]

Order of the list and everything. And it's like, we didn't say Hades. We didn't go over it. It's just like, okay, so I think this is a good number 10. And I, this, this Will go up, this will go down. And then we got to one, and we're like, oh, we haven't said Hades yet. It was just such.

[B]

It was just assumed kind of. But. But, yeah, no, I mean, yeah, Hades. I. I'm liking it so much so far. I'm. I'm. I do think. Think very, very. Like, at this point, I'm just nitpicking. Of course. I do think the home base in Hades one was so much more readable up front. Like, yes. The Space 2, there's so much, and it's gorgeous. And, too, there's. There's so many little corners that I didn't realize I could even walk into. It's a bit overwhelming at first. Like, the first one was just like, oh, a few rooms where you knew exactly where you can go. This is the tavern where everybody hangs out. This is your. Your living quarters that you go into. Throne room. This is where I forget what his name is.

[C]

Hypnos.

[B]

Not Hypnos. Brad Pitt's Achilles hangs out. So I was like, all right, okay, cool. So now. But now the Crossroads is, like, so much more sprawling. But again, on the flip side, that's kind of. I'm more excited to explore it. Which, at a certain point in Hades 1, that space I was going back to and emerging from the pool every time got a bit old. So. So, yeah, I can't wait to keep playing this game. I only have two weapons so far, and I'm probably on my sixth run if I was to boot it up after the recording. So it's not like I'm far in whatsoever, but it's got its hooks in me for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I do think that part of the Crossroads readability issue is that it is outside. It is not clearly defined like rooms of a house are. And it does. I don't know if it ever gets better because you kind of just keep adding stuff to the Crossroads as you do more, as you brew more of the incantation and, you know, more characters show up and whatever. But it does get. At least. You're like, okay, I know nothing is going on over there. Nothing is ever going on over there.

[A]

I'm not gonna walk up. I've gone up the pool path a million times.

[C]

Nothing ever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So that's nice. And then you eventually do get to decorate it. As you start to do more runs, you'll get more stuff to decorate. Kind of like the first game. And the customization options are, like, pretty good. I like a lot of the this. It feels like a worthwhile Reward for your efforts. Sometimes, like, yeah, I actually do want to hang these string lights. These look really nice. And, like, I kind of vibe with it. The one big thing that kind of bugs me about Hades, too, and I think it gets better with time, but there are a lot of resources. That game asks you to spin a lot of plates all the time. And it's like you're maintaining a garden and you're getting bones and ash and psyche and minerals and weird other, like, mystical materials that you don't really always know what golden apple used for golden apple, wool, silver, like, just random stuff. And you won't always have options to use them in the incantations pool until you've, like, progressed certain stories. So there were times I was sitting on, like, 80 bronze and I'm like, can I get rid of this? Do I need this?

[A]

Do I sell these? What do I do with these?

[C]

Yeah, and it'll tell you. Luckily now in the. When you go to recycle, it'll say, like, when you're highlighted over something that's important, it'll say, like, important resource. Like, you still need this, basically. And there are other ones that won't say that. And it's like, you can get rid.

[A]

Of these because I unlocked the recycling thing. Yeah. All the fish I've always sold, nothing.

[C]

To do with them.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Also recycling the thing where.

[A]

Yeah. There's the rubbish stuff that Aris throws out, and I always trash that. But then everything else in that menu I've been afraid to use because it's like, am I going to need this for an incantation or an aspect of a weapon or something like that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So.

[C]

And it's always. It's hard to tell because you have the book, which is great. The book will tell you, like, here's how you get this material. Here's where you get it. Sometimes it'll even tell you what it might be used for. So I use the book all the time, but when you have, like, I think, like, 25 to 30 different materials at any given point, it's like, oh.

[B]

My God, like six right now.

[C]

Yeah. Between that and, like, the fish and like, some of the other ranks, random bits and bobs you get, it's just.

[A]

Like, yeah, all the plants.

[C]

There's got to be 20 different plants. Like, there. It's just. It's a lot. And you can ignore 90 of it and have a great time with this game. Like, truly, you can ignore most of the ancillary stuff and just play the game and be like, I'm just playing 80s, too. It's great time. It takes me 15 minutes to a run. I get to go home after that. Like, whatever. But when you're trying to, like, get everything or you want to see certain story lines, you're like, all right, how many mandrakes do I have? Do I have the olives? Did I get the moper fish? It's like, maybe we didn't need all of this, right? We did.

[A]

I could see that. Yeah. It's not something that actively, like, impedes my enjoyment of it moment to moment, but, like, I can't argue that, like, there's a good reason why we have this thing, you know? Yeah.

[C]

It's. It's a little silly, but I think all the characters in that game are great.

[A]

It's tremendous. It's gonna be. You know, I think about it a lot. Like, Game of the Year type stuff. Like, it's. I. I cannot wait to see what these discussions are like, because there are so many fucking games that could have a real shot at, like, near the top.

[B]

Remember my last year, I think, around this time of year. And we'll. I think later this episode, we'll talk about timing of Game of the Year again. But I told Amanda what I thought would win Game of the Year. So she knew. But, like, I wasn't. So she could then tell me. Like, she could then claim that I was right or wrong last year.

[A]

You know, like writing on a piece of paper.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what was our Game of the Year like? I think I forgot.

[A]

Oh, last year.

[B]

Last year was.

[A]

Oh, I never remember.

[C]

Balatro.

[B]

Yeah, it was Balatro. And, yeah, I told.

[C]

That was just a guess. That was most. Like, what was the big one.

[A]

Have got Astrobot, the Game of the Year, so I assume it.

[B]

No. Yeah, I was correct last year, but I think all of us kind of expected that. But this year, there are several. I could see it being.

[A]

Yeah, I think there's probably, like, four I could see. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Especially. No, I don't want to. I'm not gonna. Without Mary here. I'm not gonna dog on any games. Dan, you played Mega Bonk.

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

So 3D. Okay. Is 3D vampire survivors, like, an accurate description?

[A]

That's definitely the first thing you would think of when you see it. That's the literal first thing I thought of. I love the way I was introduced to this game. I'm sitting on the couch next to Bonk. My wife. Her name is Bianca. We call her Bonk. And we're both, you know, we do a lot of sitting next to each other playing Steam decks and switches and stuff.

[B]

We do a lot of sitting next to each other. Such a romantic thing, marriage, you know.

[C]

Marriage is one wild.

[A]

Yeah, you can sit next to someone all you want. And she's scrolling through Steam looking for something to download. And she just chuckles and she's like, look at this, look at the name of this game. And it's megabonk. And it was like, oh yeah, it's like your name Bonk. And then she's like, oh, wait a minute. Overwhelmingly positive. And I was like, oh, okay, what's this? And she's showing me pictures of it and stuff. And I'm like, okay, I'm curious. So I download is 3D Vampire Survivors. And in these last two weeks, weeks, like there's three very distinct modes with all these games coming out. It's like, okay, if I have a night, you know, where it's like, I'm gonna sit down. It's a weekend night. I have all the time in the world until I fall asleep. Nothing due tomorrow. I've been playing the Otay where it's like, that's the game I like to sink into. That's not a game. I load up for 30 minutes and run around a field and whatever. And so that's why that has not happened as much is because that's a commitment. Commitment Hades. I feel like the runs are. Even your best runs are going to be like less than 30 minutes. So it's like, all right, I got an hour before the workday starts. I'll do a run in Hades. But the, the potent drug of Megabunk is that it is Vampire Survivors. But Instead of that 30 minute limit, it is 10 minutes. So it is very easy to find. Like, okay, it's 10 minutes. I'll do a run before bed. I'll do a run between these things. I'll do whatever, whatever. And then it's so easy to just. That turns into hours upon hours upon hours. So I have played more Megabunk than I've played Hades or Yote. As a result, even though I'm telling myself it's just gonna be 10 minutes, it is just that loop of that Vampire Survivors thing of like, man, I just keep unlocking new weapons, I keep unlocking new characters and this laundry list of quests and everything. Like when it starts, it's very Vampire Survivors where it seems very bare bones and I'm just running around and it's kind of auto shooting everything around me. And like there's things you immediately Realize where it's like, oh, being 3D. The levels are designed differently. I can jump, which adds a whole different element that Vampire Survivors didn't have. Oh, I can upgrade. So, like, now I can get double jumps, triple jumps. Now I got a quintuple jump. Ooh. But now I got the scarf that makes it So I do 33% more damage when I'm airborne. So now I'm picking the character, the skeleton with a skateboard that moves really fast. And now I'm like, just double jumping over the entire battlefield, moving fast as fuck, shooting like sniper rifles and throwing bones and bananas down on all these guys. And it's fucking awesome. Like, you can break that game in insane ways. And it does show its hand more as like, okay, it's not just Vampire survivors, but in 3D. It shows you everything that can be added to the experience by giving you that 3D space to play around. But yeah, everything is very inspired by Vampire Survivors and, like, starting very basic. In the new unlock kind of a quest log, you unlock, like, more and more characters. Like, it seems like every time you're playing, it's like, okay, I got these three unlocks now. I got this new weapon that can pop up in the run. And it's. It. It's Potent is the word I keep thinking of. It is hard to stop playing it in a way that, like, Hades, I. I think objectively Hades is like a better game. I. I think it'd be hard to argue against that. But it's like, I can stop playing Hades because it's like, ah, I can't commit to a. If this is a good run, that could be 30 plus minutes, you know, I. I don't have time for that. Megabonk. It's like that. That run doesn't count. I can do another 10 minutes. That's fine.

[B]

You can bump. Megabonk.

[A]

Is that a drug thing, Mike Mahardi?

[B]

Yeah, it like bumps a coke. I don't need to fucking explain this.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Come on, man.

[A]

We're going to get kicked off these platforms. What are you talking.

[C]

Act like you've been somewhere before. Dan.

[A]

My goodness.

[B]

Jesus fucking lame O. Dan over here.

[A]

Oh, geez.

[B]

Ever done a bump before, you little bitch?

[A]

I have not. I have not, actually. Can you imagine me on cocaine? Can you imag. That's not a good time for anyone.

[C]

No, that's a valid point, man.

[B]

It would be a good time for me.

[A]

You've all been around me a lot. You've all drank with me a lot. I don't need cocaine.

[C]

I'd love to see it.

[B]

No one needs it, but that would be fun.

[A]

No, Jesse, I don't think. You think you might like to see it. I think it'd be a real bad.

[B]

I want to see it. I know, I know. I want to see you.

[C]

I want to see it also.

[B]

Oh, you want to see? We both do.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I've done harder than weed three times. And it's like, well, you better be ready to babysit. You know?

[C]

Wait, I kind of want that on a shirt.

[B]

Done weed three times. Oh, like psychedelics. Yeah.

[A]

I did shrooms twice and morning glory seeds once. All when I was 18. All in dorms, and every time is like, everyone cancel your plans for the night. You got to just make sure I just don't lose my mind in this bunk bed for, you know, eight hours.

[B]

Harder than weed is just a funny phrase for Dan.

[A]

But that's the thing, is, like, even weed is like, I am the most lightweight with weed ever, because I could sew up up in my head and everything. So it's just like, yeah, me on coke. I can't even imagine what that's like.

[B]

What if you were just really. What if you were actually just really cool on coke?

[C]

It mellows you out.

[A]

Just calm, cool, collected.

[B]

You like Pac Man. Or like nuclear Gandhi and civilization back to normal on the bottom end.

[A]

Yeah, it's like when they took the crayon out of Homer's nose. You're not going to get that reference.

[B]

Yeah, I get it. I watched that episode. It was one of the ones you recommended.

[A]

No, you didn't. No, I don't. Oh, boy. I mean, there's a curio in a Groundhog Day situation where nothing matters, and I'm just going to wake up the next day and everything's back to normal. I would do everything because I'm curious that that brings.

[B]

Holy. I don't remember how we got on this. It was my fault, I think. But I asked Amanda that last time we watched Palm Springs, and we watched that movie, like, three times a year now.

[A]

Movie.

[B]

I asked that. I was like, would that. Would the next day reset any of your addictions you might have been building up?

[A]

Yeah, I think so. Right.

[B]

But your memory is not building. Like, you lose the hangover because the body stuff.

[A]

If there's a chemical dependency, I think. Think. I think that would be flushed out.

[B]

Your memory is not flushed out.

[A]

Well, like, PTSD wouldn't go away.

[B]

But he's not hungover when he wakes up. You witnessed he does A lot of drugs. He. He says all the time him and J.K. simmons do the we are the in the bathtub. So, like, I had wondered, like, could you build up a chemical dependency over time in this?

[A]

I don't think so. I think it flushes out.

[B]

That'd be fun.

[A]

Yeah, it's like loading a save state.

[B]

Yeah, that'd be nice.

[A]

Mega bonk. But.

[B]

Mega bonk. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It might as well be a little Palm Springs Groundhog Day kind of situation.

[A]

I mean, it, it is absolutely just like doing every trick video games have learned over the last 40 years of making the chemicals in your brain just fireworks go off. You know, it is. I, I am not going to say it's a better game than 80s. I'm certainly not going to say it's better game than anything we're talking about here. It's just something I can't stop playing. And, and that is in spite of the fact that it is the most. Most lousy with Internet humor game I may have ever played. And that is my kryptonite. I hate meme Internet humor. So, like, your bonuses where you get more money is like, oh, stonks. And like, one of the characters is Mega Chad and his base weapon is Aura. And so like, that's garlic. But he's like, no, I'm telling you, trust me, I hate that. And so, like, when you die, it's like, you dead. Maybe him. Skill issue. I'm telling you. I'm telling you, this sucks.

[C]

Tank. And for that reason, I'm out, man.

[A]

It's a testament to how fun the game is that I can look at the stuff that I think is the lamest ever. And I could be like, okay, it's still worth playing. But it's, it's, it's, it goes hard into that.

[C]

Like, is it harder than weed? Would you say that Mega Bunk is certifiably harder than weed?

[A]

Now that they're both legal, I think they might be in unequal planes.

[B]

All right, lock it in.

[A]

Unless you live in a state where weed's not legal, in which case weed is harder.

[B]

All right, good to know. Yes, Jesse, speaking of harder than weed, tell me about Digimon story time Stranger.

[A]

Beautiful segue.

[C]

So, you know, we were just talking about Hades 2 and how it's a story about the Greek pantheon and you have all these great characters. What if I told you Digimon Story time Stranger is also. That story is also like, imagine who's.

[A]

The Zeus of Digimon?

[C]

Zudomon. But no, but actually, I Don't know who Zeus is. Like who, Like. No, no, no, no, no. The analog for Digimon.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

But what I will say is, like, think about Apollo, right?

[B]

Did you just start explaining who Zeus is to him?

[A]

I mean, he said he didn't know.

[B]

Who Zeus was and you said like guy.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, but I meant in the Digimon world, in the digital.

[B]

But at the end, just like, was ready to rock with the, with the.

[C]

The light, with the action.

[B]

God of War 3 version of Zeus. Sorry.

[C]

So it is a time travel story based on the, you know, based on the name you are in the digital world of Iliad and there's a character named Homers and you get to hang out with characters like Apollo Mon.

[A]

So what?

[B]

And was there a Rocky.

[C]

I wish. Okay, so. So here's the thing. I actually think the story of this game is pretty good. Because when you're looking at other games in the genre, like, like other monster.

[B]

Tamer games, what is the genre?

[C]

Oh, okay, like, like Pokemon.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It'S an rpg. You collect Digimon, you battle them the same way you would like Pokemon, but It's all like 3v3 battles type.

[B]

I knew what Digimon was, but the way the title is structured, I thought it might be like a graphic novel based.

[C]

No, that's super valid because I realized, like, I've just been playing this game for 70 hours and I'm just like, yeah, obviously everyone knows what Digimon story time.

[A]

Stranger.

[B]

Fair assumption. But not, not us.

[C]

No, crucially, not a fair assumption. So, yeah, so it's a. It's an rpg, you know, in all names. You know, it's. You collect monsters, you battle them, you're trying to save the world. It's anime as it starts off at like a very, like, slice of life, sort of you're just kind of walking around Tokyo. You get brought into the digital world, embroiled in things much larger than yourself. That sort of, sort of typical anime, my friends are my power type stuff. But it does punch above its weight, which I think is really fascinating. When you're looking at something like Pokemon, that story is always like, kind of whatever for the most part, like, no one it's for, you know, it's. It's basic is what I would say, where Digimon, like, tries to tackle more mature problems and like, real issues that I am, I fascinated by.

[A]

Has a Digimon ever committed suicide?

[C]

You should play Digimon Stories on Stranger.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

But the thing I was learning about Digimon is I watched the show growing up. And I was like, yeah, okay, it's Digimon. Like, I don't know. They're just monsters. They're not as good as Pokemon. Is kind of the thing, the sentiment around the town. But then when you play the games and you learn about all the other freakos that are in this game, like, let me just paint you a picture. Okay? Do you guys know Vivi from Final Fantasy 9? Like your typical black mage looking character with like the big yellow eyes.

[A]

Just eyes.

[C]

Picture, picture that. But its body is a revolver. And then it's holding two revolvers. His name is Deputymon.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Okay, don't.

[B]

Yeah, don't get. I don't need this.

[A]

You get me into Digimon at 41, I'm never gonna forgive you.

[B]

I'm not gonna forgive. Wait, I've got.

[C]

That's Deputy.

[A]

Look at this dude. Jesse, don't. You didn't tell me his body is a fucking revolver.

[C]

That was the first I said.

[B]

You just.

[A]

I know. No, no, no, no, no. I wasn't done. His body's a revolver and he's dual wielding revolvers. And he has a cowboy hat and a bandana and cowboy boots with spurs.

[B]

Yeah, his. His torso is a revolver, but the rest of him is still just like a badass cowboy. And he looks like a heartless from Kingdom Hearts.

[C]

But now let me tell you. Okay, so there's that guy, right?

[B]

Like the.

[C]

The evolutionary attribute.

[B]

Sorry, sorry.

[C]

No, no, go for it, go for it.

[A]

I'm on.

[B]

I'm on. Fandom's Digimon. Dan, are you looking at this too? I mean, look at his character at the top of his wiki page. And his attribute is Vaccine. What?

[A]

Wait, his family is virus busters. Like pro. He's very pro. Vaccine. Right?

[B]

His size is just 20G.

[A]

It's like his.

[B]

Wait, wait, wait. His next form is Super Starmon.

[A]

Let's look at superstar arch nemesis rfk.

[B]

Click on his next form, Super Starmon. It's just a badass star with sunglasses and boxing gloves.

[A]

Holy. He's got like wrestler boots and tassels.

[C]

This is like just sunglasses. This is like just the baseline. Like this game has 450 of this.

[B]

So it's Pokemon, but the base Pokemon is a revolver with arms and legs.

[A]

Hang on.

[C]

Like there. There are like normal like baby creature looking Digimon, but then there's also a Digimon that's literally just like a construction crane with eyes. I think it's called Break Dramon. Like, it's just like Digimon have, like, a really weird evolution path where it's like, creature to, like, just a machine gun.

[B]

Wondering what is the weirdest Digimon, you know?

[A]

Okay, it's looking. Prior forms of deputymon are Starmon and Superstarmon. So wait, is it that he was a star with sunglasses and he evolved into being a deputy, like a sheriff star, like a badge? Is that the connection?

[B]

Connection?

[C]

Sometimes there is no connection, especially in the games, because there's branching evolution lines. You get to kind of pick and choose where you want to go. So the games, like, really break away from, like, the anime where there's this, like, set. Like, like, Pikachu evolves into Raichu. It's like, not like that. Where set Digimon is all over the place.

[B]

I'm looking at Golf mon right now.

[A]

Jesse, this is dangerous that you introduced me to. Deputy.

[C]

Look up Dan. Look up Gundrum.

[A]

Just Gundramon.

[C]

G U N D R A M O N okay. This guy was in my party the entire game once.

[B]

I got. Oh, that's a lot.

[A]

It's a guy, but every appendage and more is revolvers and bazookas. Mostly revolvers.

[B]

Is this dick a revolver? It kind of looks like his knees have guns on them.

[A]

I don't see a dick.

[B]

I. I see one. One.

[A]

No, it's a little flap there.

[B]

No, I see one.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Is Digimon Cool?

[C]

I need to teach you the other half of Digimon, where I think we're gonna get Dan out of Digimon.

[A]

I'm gonna save you.

[B]

Make the world right again.

[C]

This is where Digimon gets really confusing, because what you're looking at right now is certifiably just a model weird. A weird thing that exists now. Look up Beal. B E E L L Starman. One word.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

It's like Zenya on a top with a lot of bullets flying around her.

[A]

What are you talking. It's like Bayonetta. We look at the same Mega man.

[C]

But it's like just a woman. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right? But, like, there's a head that's like a cool shark head floating around, and then it looks like a shoot shark head.

[C]

I don't know what you one you're looking at because.

[B]

No, no, she's in a. Like a Zenya outfit. We're looking at the same thing, I think.

[C]

Okay, so the thing that's above. Are you looking at the. The fandom?

[A]

I'm looking at the.

[C]

So the. Yeah, like, it's.

[B]

It.

[C]

The thing above her and, like, Those are just bullets. Like, otherwise, it's like just a woman with two revolvers and, like, a mask.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I don't think I see the woman.

[B]

And that is going to get Dan out of Digit Digimon.

[C]

Well, so I was.

[B]

It's.

[C]

It's less interesting when a lot of Digimon are also just, like, humans wearing.

[B]

Oh, gotcha. Like.

[C]

Like, it starts as a creature, and then it becomes just like a human. I have Digimon are just like a creature in a mech.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm looking at my toe, Simon B. Now, and he's just like a vampire guy. Like, he just looks like a guy.

[C]

Yeah. So there's a lot of those, but then there's also a lot of your, like, Deputy Mons, Right? Like. Like, I think break. Like I said, break. Your monster's like a crane. Like, there's a lot volcanism on or whatever. Is like a dude inside of, like, a suit that loves action figures. Like, there's a lot of weird things going on all the time, but. Yeah. So then there's like, the Olympos 12, which are their version of the. The pantheon. And it's just like, here's a guy named Apollo Mon who shoots fire out of his wrist, and he's this, like, big red creek creature, mech robot thing. And they made a whole game about that, and it's surprisingly pretty good.

[A]

There's more fun terms here. I don't know how deep you go here. Can you tell me about the Digi Egg of Miracles?

[C]

I can tell you about the Digi Egg of Sincerity.

[A]

I.

[B]

This is. I feel like I need a ripcord.

[A]

Please do. Please do. Okay.

[C]

No, I actually, like. All I know about the eggs is that they are used to digivolve certain Digimon. I don't. I'm sure there's, like, a lore reason for them.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I don't know what that is.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I know I can go to a vendor in the game and buy them, and that's about all I know about them.

[B]

Is this, like, what it feels like when I talk about wine?

[A]

This is cooler.

[C]

Possible. I'm unsure.

[A]

I see myself getting. I could see myself getting into Digimon more than I could see myself getting into. Like, I like wine. You've made me a wine. Like, I enjoy a nice night with a bottle of wine, but I could for. If you showed me this shit when I was nine, I would never. I would have multiple Digimon tattoos at this point, I think.

[B]

Well, yeah, I don't think a 9 year old will get into wine regardless. I'm not trying to compete. That's true. Just saying. Is this what it feels like?

[A]

I'm just. That Revolver man did something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was very cool.

[B]

Oh, I felt it.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Yes. Imagine playing 60 hours of that and then having to come out the other side and like, yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm good. Like, everything's fine. Everything's cool. These go setting because it's. It's a lot, but I do that game comes out on Friday. It's cool. If you like RPGs. I think it's a good one of those. If you've got time for 60 hours of a game in your life.

[A]

Who's Avenge Kidmon?

[B]

I think, Dan, you're more into the idea of Digimon than you would be into playing this game. Just.

[A]

Play it for 10 minutes and.

[B]

Be like, I think that's being generous.

[A]

I think it's just the gun guy really got me going on the.

[C]

The dialogue is cheesy and very exposition heavy. Like, no one really talks like that.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Ever. But when it gets to its heart, it has like an emotional core to it that I appreciate.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I just like making the weirdest guy I can.

[A]

Is it a big thing now? Like, is like Pokemon still a big thing? Is Digimon, Like, I, when I feel like I was hearing about it the most, it was like the maybe early mid 2000s. Is it still a thing? Is it a force?

[C]

I think it's got its core audience that shows up for games like this. So Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth was the last Digimon Story game, and that was about a decade ago. And that one only got localized and brought over here because there was such like a fan outcry for it because it was only released in Japan. And then they did like a very low budget localization and brought it over alongside its dlc. I think it was called Hacker's Memory. So this is the first time like a Digimon Story game has kind of had a budget behind it and come to the West. So there are a lot of people very excited for that.

[A]

I understand.

[C]

So it'll be cool.

[A]

Yeah. But what's it on?

[C]

PlayStation, Xbox, everything.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

PC, I think it's coming to Switch. Don't quote me on that.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I played it on PlayStation. It ran fine.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Daniel.

[A]

I know a lot more about Digimon than I did before.

[B]

Then you played Baby Steps.

[A]

I played a little bit. I fodder.

[B]

Foddy body.

[A]

Yeah. I Think this is one of those rare games that I would watch more than I would play because I am not particularly patient. I appreciate the like, you know, I'm a platformer guy. I love platformers. And like, this is not a platformer, but it is very much a. Just, just like, you know, we say Dewey games here where it's like all you're doing is doing stuff here, you're just walking and it's like again, not, not a traditional platformer, but it is like, how am I going to position myself on this to get this next platform and things like that. And I got maybe an hour into it and I slipped on a rock that was in like a running thing of water and I kind of fell into a waterfall and it sent me down. I was like, okay, haha, it's going to, you know, checkpoint me or whatever and send me back, back up. And I realized like, oh no, no, it's. It just keeps going. I need to like go all the way back up there. And I think I did a whole loop around a mountain before I realized that. And I was like, oh, okay, well I'm never playing this again. I'm not. I already did that. I'm not going all the way up there again. And then I realized like, that is like the appeal. Like I've been watching Grub and Grub is someone who is like, look, he's got kids. He is a patient man in a way I am not. And he got this part that's called the Man Breaker and it's this mountain near the end of the game and it's just this insane fucking mountain that it's so many specific little footholds you have to go up, which the way you control this is like, it's left trigger and right trigger. Like lift your left and right legs and you like lean with the analog stick to. To walk. So it's a very novel. You're not just holding up and pressing a to step or anything like that. It's very, very quop. Very getting over it. And I've watched Grub now several of these mornings, like before the workday like officially starts. I'll stream it to Giant Bomb. And I've just been watching and like, I can't look away, you know, like, I'll pull it off my phone while I'm eating breakfast and I'm just like. It's just like gripping because like, you know, literally one wrong step and he can just fall off a mountain and have to start over. And I deeply respect both the game for that type of commitment to the bit. And also anyone who plays it and is willing to, like, when they fall down that far, be like, all right, back at it. You know, I. I'm not strong enough to, like, go back and be like, all right. I'm spend another hour climbing this mountain to get back to where I was and maybe fall down again with no checkpoints whatsoever. So it's a game I deeply respect and do not want to play, basically.

[B]

Fair enough. I'm right there with you. I don't even want to watch it. I'm sure Jeff Grubb's dedicated and very skilled at it, but I don't. I don't.

[A]

He is both those things. Yeah, he gets a really. This guy gets a real sweaty ass and people have. I saw the chat say that he's caked up.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Jeff Grubb or the character.

[A]

I think they've been referring to the character. He wears a onesie and he gets a real sweaty ass.

[B]

Oh, nice. I thought you're talking about Grub.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Okay. Can't say I've seen Grub's butt. Really? No. But yeah, Nate, the character in baby steps. Caked up, as they say. But no, seems like a great game game for what it's doing. I don't want to play it.

[B]

Yeah. That whole sub genre is not up my alley. Body.

[A]

No. All the, like, going up or even the old Bennett Foddy stuff and everything. Like, yeah, love the idea. Just cannot do it.

[B]

I don't even like the idea.

[A]

I respect the idea.

[C]

I beat getting over it, and I was like, okay, cool. I never have to play one of these games ever again. Like, I had my sense of accomplishment. Accomplishment. Have fun.

[B]

Yeah, that. That. That's. Oh, man. I. I'm. I'm gonna piss people off with this one. With that kind of game. I feel like once you grasp it, Dan, I feel like you have a sane approach to it. Once you get it, you're like, okay, I don't. This is not where I want to put my time.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think I. I think video games are a great use of time. I think. I think they. They can provide a lot of entertainment. They can. They can be. Be opportunities for growth. I also don't think they need to justify themselves. I don't need, like, to look at, like, my time with games, those fian games. I actually question why the. There's so many better things you could be doing than that. And I, I, I don't. I. I'm. Please Please call me out if that's a shitty take.

[A]

No, I think there's a right amount of it, like, for me. And again, it's personal preference, like, grub seems to be loving it.

[B]

If you're enjoying it, that's all that matters. Like, I. Who am I to say, like, you're not.

[A]

Not.

[B]

You shouldn't enjoy that. If you're enjoying something, then obviously that's worth the time.

[A]

But, I mean, compared to something like Hades 2, where it's like, what are you doing in Hades 2? Or any roguelite, but doing the same thing over and over and trying to get better at it and.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

The difference, though, to me is that something like a Hades 2 is like the rogue light element, where it's like, okay, I am getting actual tangible things that are helping me progress here, like this axe. I've upgraded a little more to get a little further. I've made it so there's some healing points along the way, you know, like, whereas Baby Steps is literally just like, hey, get back up there. You know, it's. I think that would be disheartening to me, where it's like Hades. Even if I die at the last boss, I feel like progress was made.

[B]

And you could argue that you're making, like, intangible progress in Baby Steps in the sense that you are learning more like in a. In an early Dark Souls or something, where it's like, you're not actually progressing because you didn't upgrade anything, but you're still getting knowledge. Outer, wilder, wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And outer worlds I get. But I'm still getting a reward from exploring it, where it's like, there's a. There's a, like, asceticism or I don't know if that's the word, but like a Spartan vibe to the. The Fodian thing where it's like. But this is just almost masochistic.

[A]

So a perfect example of that is the Man Breaker, that mountain they very much show you when you go up. Up there. There is a winding staircase that goes all the way to the top. And it's not, like, necessarily easy. You still got to kind of wrestle with the goofy controls to get up to the top. But, like, it is probably. Again, I have not gotten that far. But it seems like that's the easy route. And it seems to be put there specifically to be like. It seems like the whole metaphor is a game, but, oh, one foot in the other in front of the other, accomplish hard things and stuff. And it's like, okay, the stairs are the easy way. And I've seen grub look at that and be like, I will not touch that. I will not go up that. Like it is there to taunt you and. And like if you start going up there, it seems like a character talks to you and it's like oh yeah, yeah. You're taking the easy way. Like oh yeah, that's the man breaker. That's the one that everyone struggles with, you know, like so it, it's like. And it's later in the game, so at that point you've already overcome so many obstacles and everything that it's like I'm not gonna take the easy way now. So like I'm sure there's a deeper metaphor there and everything that like it's kind of clever but it still does not seem fun to play.

[B]

Oh sure, there's a lot of people love that that kind of game. So like I get that there's. I'm not the audience but I also sometimes I'm like, oh man. Maybe it's because it in Hades that there's like such immediate quick feedback loop and run to run or something like that. So yeah, totally. All right, I get it.

[A]

It's a cool thing. I'm very glad it exists. Yeah. I think it's doing the thing it set out to do. Do perfectly.

[B]

All right. Do you guys want to talk about emails?

[A]

The concept? I love electronic.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, let's do it.

[B]

Okay. As usual, you can write into firescapecast gmail.com that is firescapecastmail.com questions that you want to be read on the show. Dan, do you want to read this first one from Darien?

[A]

Sure. I remember back in the aughts there were articles and stuff going around about how boss fights were bad and always bad and that no game should have boss fights. Now they're a cornerstone of some of the most loved franchises in the world. Can you think of any similar opinions that didn't really hold up Cheers Daring from Toronto. First off, that is a dumb fucking opinion. Boss fights have been amazing since the first video games I've ever played. And like, like he mentions here nowadays. Yeah. Between Silksong from games and everything like boss fights, that. That is a cornerstone of.

[B]

Oh, shout out. This is just boss fights.

[A]

Yeah, I. And I feel like that's a thing that like you know, when you think of people who don't even play video games that they associate with video games, you know, it's like one ups and you extra lives and stuff or like you know, the Rock, when he came back to wrestling, he was like, oh, the final boss was this whole thing. And it's just like that, that, that, that nomenclature and everything is part of video games for a reason. Because they're fun. Don't. Yeah, that's a stupid. I don't even remember that discourse at all. The early odds that would have been pre social media. I don't even know. Ebomb's World forums. I don't know where people were saying.

[B]

Oh hell yeah, bananaphone or hello. Fuck was one of my favorite early videos. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[A]

No, but it sounds like something just.

[B]

A guy hung over. I think he was hungover. He woke up and his phone's ringing some in a like really messy dorm room and he keeps picking up random items saying hello, Fuck. When he realized it wasn't the phone and he did like, oh, it's your.

[A]

Whole bit with the, the barbecue ribs and yeah, I've seen you hold that.

[B]

Yeah, but this is like he was pissed off that it wasn't a phone. Every time he picked up a shoe or a dildo or. I don't know. Yeah, this just was self serving because I, I think I talked about this recently. I. Since I first played banjo kazooie and 2we. This isn't really like a discourse that I think was a bad opinion. This is more something I have. Yeah, it takes a big man to admit, you know, he was mistaken. It takes a really brave person to like, you know, change course on something. So I guess, you know, I guess I'll leave it up to you guys if you want. If you think I'm like a cool, like really cool person for saying this, but I used to think Banjo Tooie was better than Kazooie. I was way fucking off. I was very off. I replayed both them in the last five years and I was confident and my, my argument was that Banjo Tooie. I liked the fact that the Metroidvania aspects actually, you know, it dictated that you had to go back to worlds after you had gathered an ability or an upgrade from this world. I went back and Banjo Tooie is just like objectively a terrible game in some respects.

[A]

Yeah, it's laborious. I did not play those games until like the pandemic and I streamed them and I 100% banjo kazooie. And I was like, this is fucking great. I really missed out back then. And then I started Tui with all the enthusiasm in the world and very quickly I was like, oh no, they they. Their eyes are bigger than their stomach. You know, they tried too much.

[B]

Their heart was in the right place because it's like, oh, well, okay, well, if you put this. Hungry, crying, throwing a tantrum, kid in a minecart in the theme park, he's going to go off into this tunnel, and you're like, all right, where'd he go? You find out that he. It's like the three worlds later, you find him. But in order to go back and complete the quest, you need to go back, and there's no fast travel. There's. There's. There's really annoying things to move around the world. I. I replayed those recently. That was back when I was still streaming on my own individual channel. And I. I played 2e, and I kept telling people every episode, I started, like, this game. This. This sucks. I'm not having fun. It's not fun.

[C]

The game kind of shows its hand, though, because that game's opening moves at a glacial pace. Like it is. It is a long intro for that game. And then by the time you get into it, you're like, yeah, now we're in it. Now we're gonna. We're gonna. We're gonna be doing Banjo Kazooie things. We're gonna be cooking. And then you're like, oh, no. The whole game kind of moves like this. Okay. They're trying to do too much here, and it's not exactly where it needs to be be. But you play Banjo Kazooie, and that's just sca. The video game. Like, it's just. There's.

[A]

Explain.

[C]

All right, when you think of ska, right, you think of a lot of horns. You think of a lot of. Lot of upbeat music. You play Banjo Kazooie, and it feels like your brain is on fire. Feels like there's just so much happening all the time. You're doing backflips, you're. You're running around, you're. Whatever. The music is very sky. Like, it's. It's a lot of, like, you know.

[B]

Grant Kirkhope was just listening at Scott.

[C]

When he was just. Yeah, it's like. It's like you put real big fish in that soundtrack, and it's like, yeah, this is banjo. I got this. I know what. I know what's up.

[A]

Okay, I see it.

[C]

Next time you play Banjo Kazooie, put some sca on and you'll. You'll know what I'm talking about.

[A]

I don't. Like. You say that like it's that simple.

[C]

It really is.

[A]

Like, put ska on Search on Spotify just like.

[C]

Yeah, just search. Sca Man.

[A]

Is Real Big Fish the go to?

[C]

No, but it's one of them.

[B]

It was my math teacher's son's band in ninth grade. Apparently they blew up a bit for Syracuse standards.

[A]

Oh, and I went to a Goldfinger. Oh, I went to a Goldfinger and Real Big Fish concert once. And I've been to a Warp Tour.

[B]

Warp Tour.

[C]

Just like Banjo Kazooie.

[A]

Exactly. It's like living the game.

[B]

What other. What other video game opinions are bad that we like? Whether it's yours or. Discourse. Yeah, discourse.

[A]

The thing is, there is a billion that are just like one dumbass on Twitter. Blue sky.

[B]

No, I want.

[A]

I want something, like, agreed upon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting. There's so many stupid things that came and went.

[B]

Like do one or. Or pick one person and then take an opinion of theirs. Ben Hansen. What's an opinion Ben Hansen's had? That was just fucking stupid.

[A]

Tank. Tank. Tank was the best game of the Wii U launch.

[B]

That's so stupid.

[A]

Which again, not a great launch bunch. But there was New Super Mario Brothers U, which, you know, it's one of those New Super Mario Brothers games. It's. It's a objectively good game. Not one of the best Mario games by any means, but, like, better than Tank. Tank. Tank. Ben Hansen has a lot of weird takes over the years.

[B]

Yeah, I don't want to actually fan those flames. Jesse, what is your. We've asked this. People have asked us this before. What's your. Like, what's a. What's a. What's a video game take that would piss us off that you have and you believe.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, you hold dear.

[C]

One that I hold dear currently. I don't know if this would piss you two off, but, like, I think Death Shining 2 is actually a very bad video game.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[C]

Inherently, like, way worse than the first one in almost every record.

[B]

I think it's a. I think it's a mediocre game.

[A]

Well, you and I talked a little bit pre release about this, and I could tell you weren't quite. Quite as hot on it as me.

[B]

No, I. Mediocre open world game with really cool tools.

[C]

Yeah, it's. It feels like they learned all the wrong lessons from the Director's Cut and then made a sequel. And it was like, where's the friction? Where's. Like, where's that like that You. You want to just climb that mountain. You want it to be this, like, perilous journey. And there's like, now here's the truck. We give you, like, 10 hours in. Like, you just. That truck can get you anywhere you want.

[A]

Sounds like you want baby steps in.

[C]

A lot of ways. I do want baby steps, but I also want baby steps with all the Kojima bulls.

[A]

That's fair. I understand.

[C]

I want. I want the.

[B]

You're talking to the two who argued for Death Stranding 1, but somebody we know thought it wasn't eligible in 2023 or whatever it was because director.

[A]

She's not on the podcast.

[B]

Wasn't eligible, apparently. You know what I think? I think Silk Song's not that great.

[A]

I really wonder what the consensus is going to be by the end of the year.

[B]

I think Silk Song's blown up, and I think Team Cherry is not nearly as smart as we all think they are. I think Team Cherry is actually not that great at developing video games. Jesse, you're going all out.

[C]

Silksong.

[A]

All you. All you people are not watching the video. Am I becoming legitimately the Silks Song defender?

[B]

No, I like Mary, likes Sil Song quite a bit. I think Silks Song's not that great.

[A]

God, Jesse, it's gonna be interesting.

[B]

No, I think I. I literally said my piece in the last episode. I was like, I think Silk Song's incredible at certain moments, but I think those moments, the payoff, makes you forgive a lot of bad game design leading up to it. And then we kind of think, oh, Team Cherry, it was intentional all along. These indie developers toiling away and obscure it. No, I'm just getting ahead of impression. I don't know.

[A]

Blue sky.

[B]

Yes. No, No, I. I think Silksong's a good game.

[C]

I do have another maybe hot video game do it. I think the boss fights are the worst parts of Souls Likes. Like, I inherently think they are the least interesting part of that entire franchise.

[B]

Structurally. I think I might agree with you because I think the games are at their most brilliant in between. And also when you're, like, connecting the world via the checkpoints and whatnot. Not that that's what you're saying, but that's kind of where I'm coming from.

[C]

No, and that's. That's also where I'm coming from. I think the world design is, like, way more interesting. And I'd rather run around that world then get stuck on a boss for five hours and then be like, I don't get to enjoy the interesting parts of this game anymore. Now I just have to do, like, a pattern recognition check.

[A]

Jesse, I think I'm with you because I think about this. Here's maybe my hot take. I think maybe the whole from format a little overrated. I think it's maybe not like everyone looks at it as like, oh, this is the new trailblazer for a game genre here outside of Elden. Or which I do. I will give Elden Ring all the credit in the world. I think that's one of the best games of all time. But again, the beauty of Elden Ring is in the discovery, in the exploration and running around that world and the moments in between. The parts I really don't love is like, okay, I'm fighting the red giant. I'm just dying a million times. And it's like every boss fight is just me dying a million times. And it's not even, like, satisfying in a silksong way. All the stuff I love about Elden Ring is just. Just, oh, I got warped across the map. And holy shit, the map is so huge. And like, just the. The freedom part of it. And that's why it's like Bloodborne dark souls and stuff like that. I respect those games, but, like, I don't really like playing them.

[C]

Yeah, no, I totally agree with that.

[B]

You lost me, because I love a lot. Bloodborne is one of my favorite games of all time. But, like, yeah, I think. I think a lot of what they're doing gets kind of rung out by the time they do it for the fifth time. Now. Now I'm amped up. What else do I want to. What else do I hate? Video games was something I disliked that a lot of people liked.

[A]

I mean, I've always said that about Assassin's Creed, but I don't think that's a hot take anymore because I think at this point, so many people are tired of Assassin.

[B]

I think my hot take.

[A]

I hated Assassin's Creed since the first time.

[B]

I think my hot take is I. I've still in love with Assassin's Creed. Like, I. I still like that series. Okay, I didn't have to play it for guides granted. But, like, I still, like.

[C]

I still like shadows. Like, even despite all of that. Like, I think, wow. I think that game is a hell of a game. It's my. My one problem with shadows, not to go in too much of a tangent, is there's too much foliage. Like, when you're running through trees for like, 10 minutes and you can't see anything. We. Maybe we didn't need this. It looks great, but, like, this is kind of just bad.

[B]

Like, this kind of just sucks the world apart. But it doesn't make for good gameplay when you're trying like you can escape, escape into the woods initially which is fun. But then after that it's like oh, they're actually like separating the individual settlements with just dense trees which makes sense for the setting. But also they, they've been toying with the setting for since AC1.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if this is more of a hot take or an old man take or both, but it's the kids today and I think when I start that way it probably goes into kids old man mode. When you think about them aging and thinking about games they are playing Roblox, they are playing Fortnite, they were playing these kind of platform based online ever changing experiences. They are not going to be able to kind of have that appre. Appreciation and revisit these games of their youth in the way that like look I, I can load up Mario. I loaded up Mario 3 two days ago and, and played a good amount of that and it's still great. I wonder what that's going to do to kids growing up loving games now that like that retro kind of nostalgia type thing isn't like you'll get the occasional like oh, Fortnite OG mode or World of Warcraft classic or whatever but like you're not going to be able to just like emulate or collect or revisit their youth the way they are now. And I think they're kind of getting robbed of that, you know.

[B]

And that's the thing where it's like, it's one of those things where they grew up so differently than us that I don't think it will even compute with them how special it was for us to be able to do that for them. I think there will be some sort of nostalgia for them in a way that we don't even understand yet.

[A]

Like they will talk about it and they will like they will sit around in their dorm rooms and be like oh, remember you know Roblox when we were in like third grade and this would happen. Do you remember?

[C]

I mean that's like currently happening. It's a reason Fortnite OG exists right? Is like you had all these people being like remember Fortnite season three? Like that's back when it was peak and like they're talking about it and it's like a bygone, like it's a bygone era because you can't play that version of that game anymore. And then Fortnite OG comes back and they're like sure, oh, but it's like not really what I remember it to be. And it's like they're going through all the same motions that you do when you like revisit something that you loved from the past. And it's like, yeah, you, you're having, you're looking back with like rose colored glasses. You, you love the experience, the memory of it. But then you play the game and you're like, oh, it's actually like not that great. It's like it was never about the, that.

[B]

Yeah. And there's an aspect of like, I do wonder how they're going to preserve it in a way that someone might be able to go back play their favorite Roblox experience in 15 years. I don't know how long it takes for nostalgia to kick in or I don't know how long it takes for an experience to become more nostalgia than actual like recent memory. But I feel like when kids get.

[A]

To college, yeah, for like, look, you're not going to recreate the like, you know, pulling a CRT and an Xbox and getting 16 friends in a room and playing Blood Gold, Capture the Flag Halo or whatever.

[B]

Right? And that's amazing.

[A]

They can make the Master Chief Club collection and you can play that game online. Everything. You can't recreate those actual childhood memories. But like, I don't even think you can do that with a Roblox or something. You know, like just a weird, obscure, just, you know, user created maps and stuff like that. Like, I just, I, I don't know.

[C]

If that's Roblox Private servers, baby.

[B]

Yeah, that'd be fun though, actually doing a system link for Halo 2 at some point, like physically setting one up again.

[A]

Oh sure, that'd be fun.

[C]

I did a lot of times it.

[A]

Was amazing in our dorms. Like it was before the 360 came out. It was Halo 1. You could fucking plug the ethernet cord or whatever it was from the Xbox into your dorm room wall.

[B]

Yeah, the local area network.

[A]

Yes. It wasn't just the dorm I lived in. It was all five dorms on the hill at KU and then even ones further way and all of it was on the same network. So that was my, that was before Xbox Live. That was before any of that. And you could just play Halo 1 with anyone in any dorm in the city. And like that was just such an interesting, like this is before, way before iPhones and stuff like that. So you're just calling friends up, being like, oh yeah, so we're gonna get on this local area network thing and that Was. That was awesome. There's. There's no way to recreate that. Why, why would you, you know, did.

[B]

You ever develop like a rivalry with a specific dorm or floor?

[A]

It was more just like dorms had their certain reputations. Oh, Naismith is the rich kid dorms. I lived in Hashinger, which was like the weird Art kid dorm. Yeah. So like this is like kind of the, the future frat.

[B]

I've always called you art kid when you weren't, you know, behind your back.

[A]

I did. I kind of hated it. There's just a bunch of very pretty. Like every time I walked into the dorm past 5pm There were like three guys with shaggy hair, like playing acoustic guitars and is like the guy leans in your doorways.

[B]

Like local area network. Purports to be about connection, but really it's just all isolation and then he goes to bed.

[A]

That's not even an exaggeration.

[C]

Yeah, two dudes in drug rugs playing hacky sack. Like just.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But yeah, Team Cherry needs design lessons. All right, next email. All right, this is kind of a rapid fire. It's a few questions in one from Jeff. All right. Sup fec? Long time, first time here. Love the show, love the opinions and I pretty much buy video games based on what's talked about on the podcast because of different facets of your own personalities and likes. Dislikes that match mine. You make it too easy. Anyway, some questions, subtitles, I always have them on video games, movies, TV shows, sports, don't give a fuck. They get turned off, off opinions.

[A]

Video games. Yes, because that can really help because like, you know, you're not necessarily like hearing everything they say as you drive from point to point. And it's good to see that. Movies I don't, I don't do with movies, video games. I. It's a special case because like I'm streaming them so often with work and everything that like it's better for the viewer to have the subtitles on. So I do default to turn those on. But I'll never do it for movie. Never do it for TV show. Unless it's a thing with heavy hat accents.

[B]

Yeah, I was going to say.

[A]

I've.

[B]

Come around and watching subtitles for like long form tv cuz you can miss something so easily that like last time we watched we rewatched the Wire. We're now rewatching the Wire again. That show. I mean there are so many different dialects in that show. Because I think the great thing about that show is that they're covering so many different sects of the city that people are speaking differently within their different bubbles. And also that show loads so much information into one scene. Yeah, we had the subtitles on last time. We're like holy. I've never caught that before. Oh my God. This scene has so much more gravitas to it because even like Bunk and McNulty some of their scenes when they're talking and we're re watching the show right now. We're toward the end of season two too. And even that season I'm appreciating much, much more because I know the stakes of what's going. What's going on because I didn't understand the Greek or some of the things that like Horse was saying to Frank Sabatka or whatever. But like I've come around on them with TV movies. I still. Because they're so short form and I'm not as worried about catching every little nugget of information. I don't use them for movies. But what did I just watch recently? Sinners finally watched Sinners Movie rules.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There was a few scenes where I went back and turned on the subtitles because I wanted to hear every last like piece of information. But like there are certain movies when you're like Annihilation. I don't necessarily need subtitles because I'm not there for like the dialogue. Well, that movie has great dialogue, but I'm there more for the vibes of that movie movie. Even though it's the best movie ever made. I don't need to know every little piece of information. But like yeah, I've come around on subtitles. Although in games Ghost of Yote I will say I kind of regret picking Japanese voice acting English subtitles. It's great.

[A]

I feel like that's the thing. Like I keep getting asked that in like comments and stuff. Are you playing with this or this night? I'm just doing English voices. English subtitles.

[B]

I kind of wish I did and here's why. And when I'm. When given that choice, I almost always pick whatever is diegetic to the setting. Like I'll pick. Oh yeah. And I don't regret it. When during cutscenes Ghost of Yote and I should have mentioned this earlier in the episode that not I don't think it's a knock on it. I think it's just a knock on me not speaking Japanese. They there's some dialogue during fights or while I'm riding my horse trying to aim for the flowers where there's like I don't understand Japanese, so I'm trying to read the subtitles while doing all this stuff in the world and I can't read it. I have to go read and then like be like, fuck and steer my horse back into the white flowers and shit like that. Or during a fight, to be clear. I understand how to fucking swing this giant two handed fucking sword while I'm reading. But there's a lot going on in some of the combat in this game to the point where like I, I can't see every badass line that Atsu says.

[A]

But like, there's also a weird thing where it's like in Ghost of Yote, the, the melee stuff, it's got the like blue glint, a red glint, yellow glint stuff. And that's clear how to respond to that. But the way they dealt with the ranged guys, like the guns and the bow and arrows, like they just yell before Aaron. So it's like. And then they'll shoot an arrow and it's like, I don't.

[B]

And then all their, all their friends just go, yeah. And they talk. Yeah.

[A]

This doesn't feel really realistic.

[B]

I don't. Yeah. I don't think Legolas was like, here it comes.

[A]

Gonna get you. Get ready. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I can't like fault them fully for trying to find some way that doesn't just clutter it even more visually.

[A]

It's a video game.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I use subtitles for most things, games especially because most of the time I'm playing games usually on Discord with Friends. And so if I don't have subtitles on and I miss something, I'm like, I can't do two things at once with the subtitles. At least I can like read some, some dialogue or something.

[A]

But tv, definitely that's something I keep hearing about now is like people just like hanging out in like Discord. Voice servers and like, I think I probably know a bunch of the guys you're talking about that you're in these things with.

[B]

Michael Hyde.

[A]

I've never done that in my life.

[B]

Piece of shit Carson, I message him right now, says, Mike, says, you okay? I love that guy. I just messing with you.

[A]

Like, are. Are we talking about, like, there's like six people playing video games and you all have just open mics and you're all playing different stuff and just chatting. I mean, that sounds fun. I just. That seems like such a.

[B]

It doesn't sound like you think it sounds fun. Dance.

[C]

Yeah, it sounds like you're having a really hard time understanding this.

[B]

I don't think you're doing that. It's sounds amazing, but like, what the fuck?

[A]

No, because I'm thinking about, like, a lot of times, like I was talking about, like, me and Bianca will be sitting down both playing our Steam deck games.

[B]

Or you're last sitting next to each other when you made an idea.

[A]

Yeah, we're playing Separate Love is so cool. We're talking and stuff like. But it seems like maybe that type of thing, right?

[C]

Yeah, well, it's this idea, right? Like, how many times have you, like, gone to a friend's house or had a friend over when you were younger and one of you is just playing a single player game and the other person is like, well, what do I do? I guess I just watch you play. This is like, everyone gets their screen time, everybody's in their enclosure, everyone's in their own space. But then we get to like, talk to each other, like, also while that's going on. And like, sometimes we'll toss streams up so it's like everyone's able to like, watch each other's gameplay. So there are some nights where I've got six different video games being streamed to me at once. And am I paying attention to all of them? No. But I have them up and it's like this nice communal night that we're all having where, you know, we might be quiet for 20 minutes and then we might go off the rails for 35 minutes and then we all go back to playing our games.

[A]

That sounds fun.

[C]

It's a good time. It's very.

[A]

Sounds like a more recent thing. Like, I don't think that really was happening 10 years ago.

[C]

No, no, not at all. But it is the reason I have to put subtitles on when I play a game. And because if, like I said, like, if I have 6 people blaring discord soundboards in my ear and I'm trying to watch a Ghost of Yotei cutscene. Like, like, it's. I got to be able to read what's happening with movies, though. It's like, I don't really have subtitles. My roommates like subtitles a lot. So, like, it really is just based on, like, if they're watching with me or not. And then tv especially, like, I think Game of Thrones really changed me on this. I had to have subtitles on for Game of Thrones because it helped to reinforce a lot of, like, proper nouns, you know, regions, character names. Like, because there's so much that game, that show is so dense with information that I just needed the reinforcement, the visual reinforcement of being able to read those names.

[B]

I'm also very much a visual learner. That's how I build my memory lexicon. Seeing names helped a lot with shows like that. Or again, the Wire, same thing. There's so many characters. I'm like, all right, okay. I got to know Bunk or. Or Russell from season two. I'm like, I. I wouldn't have known who they were if it wasn't for the fact that, you know, like, the show is well written, so it's not like they're saying, hey, Russell, remember when you told me that thing last episode? Like, I'm. I need to know who they are. So it helps a lot to have that.

[A]

Deadwood is another one.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Where it's a really dense dialogue and a bunch of characters and stuff, and it does just kind of help with that. So it is kind of like a show by show basis thing.

[B]

Deadwood's really good.

[A]

Good. Deadwood's awesome. Watch.

[B]

It's good. Russ. Fresh stick convinced me to rewatch. I started it back in the day, and then when I came to Polygon, Rush is like, It's a slow burn, but it's got one of the best. Several payoffs in, like, TV history. And I rewatched it. I'm like, oh, my God. It's.

[A]

It's three times now. I have watched that show, and I. I had a poster that show in my college apartment. I love it, but I. Every time I get to two or three episodes into season three, and I fall off. And not because it's bad. It all seems good. I cannot explain it, but I've tried it, and me and Bianca had not seen it. And so a few years ago, it's like, okay, I'm gonna do this. It was around the time the movie was coming out on hbo, which is.

[B]

A very good movie.

[A]

Yeah, it was great, but it was like, okay, I'm gonna watch all the way through. I find I've never seen season three outside of the first couple episodes. And we did the same fucking thing where we got, like, two episodes in and then we just watched the movie. And I still haven't seen most of season three. Season three. And it's like, I love that show. I. I cannot explain why I haven't seen it. Like, it's good, right, Mike? Like the season three?

[B]

Yes, I like it quite a bit. It's not my favorite of this. Of the show, but it's definitely good.

[A]

We. We did that with the Wire too, where we watched because I've seen the Wire several times, and probably the best show ever, and we got through. We watched the first four seasons pretty quickly, and then I think we watched, like, the first one of season five and then fell off. I. Five? There's moments in five.

[B]

Yeah. Five's like, rightfully criticized. Being self indulgent on Simon's part. He was, you know, a Baltimore sun reporter. And then the fifth season was about journalists.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I do think the media was integral to the story they were telling. I just think it got a bit too in the weeds. I didn't mind because that, like, I came up watching that show be like, oh, yeah, I want to be a, you know, a journalist. This is awesome. Like, I don't. I think that's one of the weaker seasons rewatching the show. I think season two is actually way better than I ever gave it credit for.

[A]

And I always like season two. I get everyone shits on it. I think it's great.

[B]

I get why people initially were like, what the are they doing? Before they saw what they were actually going for with the whole thing?

[A]

But, like, this is totally different. But, like, I think it's. It's. They're looking at several different aspects of the city and crime in it and, like, what an interesting take on, like, just the docks. And.

[B]

Well, for the first, like, two episodes, you're like, why the do we care about these stevedore dock workers? Like, and of course, again, initially the show was like, why the fudge do we care about what all these, like, white Baltimore dudes are doing? Like, I was watching, like, I was watching these, like. Like, you know, these characters I had gotten to love, and, like, they were. Their whole thing was like, playing the game with the cops and everything. And then all of a sudden, like, why do. What do the Steve Doors have to do with it? You realize later on they're, like, essential to the story. Oh, it's really good. I'm rewatching again. It's still incredible. All right. Still got more from Jeff. All right. So we kind of just actually touched on this sound in video games. I'm on my second playthrough of Tears of the kingdom and put 150 hours the first time around. I have never heard the in game soundtrack. Video game time is my time away from family and kids, so I like to listen to my own music, drink some drinks, and escape. Donkey Kong Bonanza. No sound. Breath of the Wild. Tears of the Kingdom. No sound. And am I a monster for this? Okay, so. So there's two he said no sound. I think he means music.

[A]

He's saying no sound.

[B]

But nobody said, I've never heard the in game soundtrack after Tears of the King.

[A]

Well, either way, like, you know what this, this track, this goes right into a previous question about bad takes. And I remember, I think it was Steven Totillo had a thing around the first Red Dead Redemption saying that like he did. He listened to podcasts or you never listened to like the, the music in or turn the music off in Red Dead Redemption. Redemption. And he got a lot of for it because it's like, oh my God, like, you know, Red Dead Redemption, those musical moments, like, you know, those few times they bring in an actual song and everything.

[B]

Yeah. Jose Gonzalez, when you're crossing into Mexico.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Like, those are the things I, some of the things I remember the most about that game. And in two two did the same thing.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[C]

Unshaken.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember he got a lot of for that back in the day. And the thing is, I don't even want to say that age poorly because I think at the time he got a ton of for it. But I guess it is a personal preference thing, like what Jeff is saying here. But, like, it is kind of crazy to me. You know, that's a part, that's a huge part of the, like, when you think about, like when we used to score games, it was always graphics sound like replay value and overall score. It's like sound is a huge part of games.

[B]

If you wanna. So yeah, Jesse, like, I, I, that's when you were saying that you have like several streams up and you're talking to your friends. That's where I'm, I got to a point where I'm like, oh, okay, interesting. That's where I might have fallen off if that was something I was into. Because turning soundtrack off is one thing if you want to tailor your experience to be like, as immersive to you as you can make it. And if turning the soundtrack off helps that for you, go for it. But yeah, I can't imagine, like, I cannot imagine Ghost of Yote without the sound. Even some game like Shadow of the Colossus, which is very bereft and desolate, but, like, the sound becomes even more important for me there where it's so quiet. But do you, do you feel like it diminishes games when you are. And maybe I'm misunderstanding how you're, how it goes when you're like, hanging out with people? Because, like, I, I totally get how the social aspect of that can really amplify your enjoyment for games. Because I was always a person who I would either be playing games in my place when friends came over or vice versa, I would go watch them play games. So I totally connect with that. But are you playing with, like, low sound or no sound or.

[C]

So I'm very. First of all, so when I'm watching, like, other people's streams, like, when I'm playing my game, like, I'll normally turn their streams off, like the volume. Because it's more of just like a. Oh. Just seeing what they're up to, what they're playing. And then like, I'm playing my thing with my volume on. So, like, I'll have people talking, like, over voice, obviously at me. But, like, I still have my sound sound, like, cranked. Like, I'm still listening. But I'm also like, very particular about the games I will play in those settings. Like, I'm not playing a very story heavy. Like. Like, I use Yote as an example. Just like a HADES is great where it's like, it's mostly reading and like, I've done the run multiple times. I probably won't push the narrative forward. I can just do that run. I've heard the soundtrack a million times. Or I'll play like a multiplayer. Like, I'll jump into like a Call of Duty lobby. Like, things that are. Or like, sound is part of the experience, but it's not like, why I'm there. Sure, yeah. Something low, low stakes. But, like, if I'm reviewing something or if I'm playing like, something that I really want the full experience of, like, that is like a me game on the side. I'll play when I'm not doing, you know, that. Or I'll like, deafen on Discord and I'll just be the thing if someone needs to poke me about something and I'll just. And be enjoying the game myself. For sure.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Like, sound is tough.

[B]

Yeah. It goes out saying. It's like, obviously if any of us are playing something for work, then we're giving it our full attention. Like, it's like, yeah, what game was I recently playing? Like, Ghost of Yote, I guess, is probably the best example. It's like, I can't, like, without the soundtrack there. When you're doing the standoffs and like, it's doing the zoom in on her sword and you've got like the. She pulls it out the last minute and then. Or the last, like, few inches and it's got that, like, Morricone kind of guitar riff. I can't imagine something without that, however. Yeah. I don't know. Like, even Breath of the Wild comes. Breath of the Wild is something that's interesting if you turn the soundtrack off because we, when we first played that game, it. It was a big deal. The fact that they were so withholding with the soundtrack. It would be random little flutters when you're just in the woods or when you're coming over a hill. And then you've always. You would all of a sudden hear like. And then like, that would add to it and that would be amazing. But I can't imagine the game without those.

[A]

Yeah, like, Breath of Wild is. I think it's a game by game thing. Like, Breath of Wild was never a podcast game for me. But like, Jesse was saying, like, Hades. Yeah. After a certain amount of, like, you know, I've played these runs a million times times. It's. I feel okay, you know, watching something or listening to something. And then there's things like Megabunk where it's like, I played it a lot and I know how this music is. The music is great, it's awesome, but can very easily put something else on. And I don't feel like I'm losing anything. So it really is game by game thing where it's like my yote, I think is. Is the current thing that, like, I can't imagine listening to a podcast or something or having a conversation while playing yote that is like, I'm turning the lights off, phone's on silent. I am just watching this, you know, playing it like a movie, you know.

[B]

Yeah. I don't need the sound in risk of rain 2, even though I fucking love that game. And I also don't need the sound in Tower Dominion, even though it's one of my favorite games this year. Like, I don't need the sound.

[C]

Fucking Balatro sounds over and over again that are designed to be heard over and over again is like, yeah, now it's the time. Like, I think of curated experiences a lot where like, like Death Stranding is a very curated experience when it comes to his music. Right. You're cresting over a hill, that low roar song's gonna play. The lower third comes in. If you're listening to your own music. That doesn't compute with me. Where it's like, oh, that whole moment is kind of just gone. You just lose that moment and maybe you've created something for yourself and you enjoy that more and that's cool. But for Me, it's so much of my relationship with that game. Outer Wilds is the same way where it's like when you hear the Timber Hearth theme play, when you hear. Hear the loop music play, and you know what's about to happen, that's so intrinsically tied to my experience with that game that if I was listening to whatever, but then I think about something like Spider man, and that was like a big thing going around when Marvel's Spider man came out, where a lot of people were like, put on like 90s hip hop, like, make your own Spotify playlist, and just like, swing around the city listening to that. And I'm like, oh, I actually tried that and it was actually really cool and I really enjoyed that. And I ended up doing that for most of the game because it was. Was honestly, like, a way better experience for me. I thought it was neat also.

[B]

Yeah, Insomnia, like, insomniac can't get the rights to Wuang Clan. So, like, you're gonna make it way better if you do. Yeah, no, I totally get that for sure. But I definitely, if. If Jeff's saying he turns the sound off, like, that's. I don't have kids. I. I'm sure, like, there's. There are people who do that are like, I just literally want quiet. I. I can sort of get that. Penultimate question. Not finishing video games. The reason I'm playing Tears of the Kingdom again is to finally finish it. I'm notorious for not finishing games, not getting to the end, especially with open world games. If I feel I have reached a point of fatigue, but also enjoyed the 50 hours I got the game, and I will just stop playing that game forever. Am I a monster for this? No, not at all. It was a turning point for me when I decided I do not need to finish every fucking game I still start. I. That was like 10 years ago, maybe 15 at this point. Obviously, again, keeping in mind if all three of us are playing something for work, we're gonna see it through and, like, make sure we give it our full attention and, you know, meet it more than meet it all the way. But, like, if there's a game I'm playing that just to check it out and see if I enjoy it, then no, I. I long ago stopped feeling the need to. To finish a game, let alone 100% it.

[A]

That was something me and Jesse were talking about off the air tonight, where it's like, if you're writing reviews for a game, like, you know, that's all I was doing from like 05 to maybe 2014 is like, you're. It's a scored review. You need to beat it. You need to be able to talk to the entirety of the game. But it was a thing once I shifted to Giant Bomb and it was like, okay, it's podcast discussion. Like, look, I can play 10 hours of a 30 hour game and say how I feel about that 10 hours. I wouldn't have written a review, but like that shift caused me to be a little more okay with like, okay, I'm not really having a great time with this. I don't need to beat this entire game right now. So kind of pick and choose. But like, yeah, like, Jesse, you were talking about writing scored reviews. It's like, yeah, got to kind of play that whole thing. Got it. You got to speak to the whole deal, you know.

[C]

But that means in my free time, I drop games all the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I, when I learned, learned it like, it was like a skill. But like, truly and I broke the habit of being like, I paid for this game or I got this game and I'm gonna see it through. Like, oh my God. There's nothing like the rush of dropping a game. You're just not enjoying or not vibing with or you play 10 hours of and you understand. It's like, I love that feeling when it's like I put like eight hours. I think Dragon Age recently was, or I guess last year was like a good example of this. It's like, I want to see this game through. I'm halfway through it. I don't know if I'm really vibing with it. And then I just ditched it and never looked back. And I was like, great.

[A]

It's a feeling of like having something like, socially that you need to do like a party or something. And then like for some reason it's like, o. You have a great excuse to not go or it gets canceled.

[C]

The rush of canceling.

[A]

I just don't have to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I, like I said Yote is the first game in a while in my free time that I'm like, I'm gonna finish this. Cause I really do. Just truly. And that's not. I'm not like pushing myself to finish it. I. The game's good enough where it's pulling me toward the finish. But like, it's been a while since I thought, okay, I'm actually going to see this through for sure. And then. Last question from Jess. Shower beards, yes or no? I haven't had a shower beer in A while.

[C]

Used to be. I. I mean, I've cut back my drinking pretty significantly over like the last year. But if I'm on vacation and like, the vibes are right. A shower beer. Hell yeah, man.

[A]

I was a shower beer guy in college before the bars, you know, I take a shower, get clean, take a. Get a little pre drink going on now I'm an older man. I'm a sauna beer guy.

[B]

Do you have a sauna?

[A]

That's. I just got one from Costco. This has been a saga for the last week or two on Giant Bomb I've talked about. So I got to. I'm probably going to start preheating it right after this podcast. I'll probably do a run of Hades while it's heating up to 150 and then I'll have a couple beers in the shower or in the sauna there. That. That's my new thing where I'm trying to like, like in the bathroom. The, the. The macaroni and cheese bathroom.

[B]

Oh, wait, no, I've seen it. It's like the, the. That like.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Not the steam room closet. That's the older. That was the old model. I bought a full on wooden big ass, like sauna thing.

[C]

How many people can it fit? Is it just a one person sauna or can it fit multiple person?

[A]

It's a two person.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

In your bathroom.

[A]

I go in there. It's got Bluetooth. It's got like. It is hotter. It's a dry sauna situation, which I like. The audio listeners won't see it, but that's the guy. There it is.

[C]

That's something from Control.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it does.

[C]

That's the oldest house man.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's in your bathroom.

[A]

I've been doing that every single night for the last two weeks. And I will occasionally have some beers in there. And that's. I've been reading. I've been reading Mike or a literary man. I've been reading Breakfast of Champions.

[B]

Oh, nice Kurt there.

[A]

And drinking beers and just sweating my ass.

[B]

Did Ben Hansen recommend that to you?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, that's.

[A]

That was Slaughterhouse 5 and I enjoyed.

[B]

It and I was like, oh yeah.

[A]

For something reading the sauna treats.

[B]

Sirens a Titan. That's my favorite.

[A]

I might be back on the, the Mahardi book suggestion train because. Okay, I was doing that for a while.

[B]

If we talked about it a few episodes ago. When you're done with those and you want like a book that's actually gonna like Change your life 100 years of solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez.

[A]

One of the most down right now.

[B]

Enjoy. It's, it's, it's, it's literary as, but it's also like, enjoyable as hell. Paige Turner. So, like, don't let the, the, the, the, the way the situation deter you. I, I love that book.

[A]

No, look, I got nothing to do in that thing. I'm in that thing for 30 minutes. I, I, I'd love to have a book to read. Oh, yeah, I was thinking about like, physical books because I like physical books. But like, I'm sweating a lot in there. I don't want them to get all wet.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know if that's the spot for that.

[A]

Yeah, I'm just doing the Kindle in there. So that, that's the plan. 100 years, sauna, beers and. Yeah, okay.

[C]

Can the Kindle handle that too? Is it like, not too hot?

[A]

I looked it up. It's not like, recommended, but like, if it gets to a bad point, it'll be like, hey, it's fucking hot. What are you doing? And, but you know, I usually do like, you know, 15 minutes of reading and I'll put it down on the ground where it's less hot and just kind of sweat out the rest.

[B]

All right. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't remember the last time I had a shower beer. As a joke, Amanda brought me like a shower red wine like a last year or something. I don't, but that's not like something I do on purpose. All right, well, thank you, Jeff. That's all our emails.

[A]

Excellent.

[B]

Yeah. Again, for next episode, restock that inbox. That's firescapecast gmail.com appreciate all the questions you send in. Mary will be back next episode. Jesse, thank you so much for joining us.

[C]

Thanks for having me.

[B]

It was a blast to have you plug things. Yeah. What do you have going on that we should know about? About?

[C]

Currently, I don't have a whole lot going on, but if you go to restart.run or you go to, you type my name, Jesse Vitelli, into any social media, you'll find me there. Blue Sky, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, whatever you want, whatever your social media choice is. I just put out a Digimon review if you want to read more about the wacky world of deputymon that went up today. Yeah, I don't really have anything major going on, but you might see me around other places knows.

[B]

Dan, what about you?

[A]

Giantbomb.com that's, that's, that's the place I just started playing my Blight Club game. I'm playing a Darkest of days. Have either you heard of this?

[C]

Yes, Darkest of days.

[A]

No, it's a. It's my Blight Club game. I have to dress up like a Civil War soldier and time cops. I. That's the thing I learned what the game was on the air and I had to dress up and it said a Union soldier out outfit and it's like, that's the north. Okay, we're good. But it's the idea of a time traveling soldier time cop situation where it's like, oh, you're getting rocket launchers and in the Civil War and World War I and stuff like that. So it's not good. And I'm playing the 360 version which runs terribly. So that's my Blight Club game right now. But yeah, keep an eye on Giant Bomb. We got some fun stuff coming up. I don't know if it'll be announced by the time this episode goes up, but we got some marathon sub drive type stuff coming up very soon and that's going to be a very fun show. So yeah, Giant Bomb. Good stuff there.

[B]

Cool. I'm just here and then like I said, October 20th. Go to our Patreon page for tickets to that Smash Bros. Tournament. If you can be in New York on October 20th. Whether you live here, whether you're nearby, come in, hang out, wear fire escape gear. Love to see it. Also, we do officially now have firescapemerch.com. i saw it in the that I know the bit with Mary and I was fun. But testing it now. Firescapemerch.com should go to fourth wall.

[A]

Okay, I typed it in. I hit enter. Oh, look at that.

[B]

Some of our merch.

[A]

There we are. Yep.

[B]

Yeah, Fire escape merch. There's still. There's a lot you can get. We actually just restocked the stainless steel water bottles because people were buying those even when we didn't have the domain name. So go buy stuff. There. There. We like quite a lot of it. We do have some new stuff on the way soon. We're finalizing some of that to get ready for our Game of the Year stream. And Game of the Year season as we like to call it. We did mention. Are we. Well, I guess we'll wait until Mary's back to like triple confirm the actual date. We have a date in mind. It's going to be. Can we say the month at least? Because we did November last year.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's tentative. Obviously. It's tough with all of us having jobs and me also having to do game of the year stuff with my day job and everything. But we are looking at early December.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is kind of what we're looking at now. Saturday, there's the TGAs, there's holidays and stuff. So just. We'll update you once it's for sure. But, like, we're looking at December right now. Yep.

[B]

Subby firescape merch.com. get prepped for that. We still have our dorky Christmas sweaters there if you want to rock those. I might bring mine to Minneapolis this year. We will be back at Dan's studio for that. Outside of that, I think that's it. Jesse, thank you so much again for joining. And Dan, I don't know. I don't really. I'm not.

[A]

I'm here.

[B]

I don't have anything to thank you for that much.

[A]

Got to sauna.

[B]

Yeah, go. Go pre your sauna and read your book, you geek.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Have your sauna. Beer.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, sauna.

[A]

Beer.

[C]

While I read. Shotgun your. Shotgun the beer in the. The sauna.

[A]

I'm gonna read Kurt Vonnegut while I drink a beer in the sauna. I mean, what. Does that not sound okay?

[B]

Yeah, it sounds amazing to be.

[A]

All right. Thank you. Next.

[C]

Next.

[A]

Next. I'm gonna read Infinite Jest while I drink some wine. I started Infinite Jest. It seemed like a lot recently. No, years ago.

[B]

I was gonna say. Yeah, don't do that. It's not.

[C]

Dan gets into infinite just in 2025.

[A]

It seemed like a whole lot.

[B]

No.

[A]

Nobody.

[B]

Here's another hot take of mine. Nobody should ever read Infinite Jest. I don't give a What those intermittent chapters add to the book. It's in the same way nobody should ever fully read Moby Dick, which I did.

[A]

Wait a minute. No, no, no, wait. I think I'm up here because I was just. I'm thinking of Inherent Vice.

[B]

Very, very, very different books.

[A]

Incredibly different. But you can see the. You can see the syllables and letters similar.

[B]

Sempo is the name. Advice. Thomas Pinchon. I like that book. Infinite Jess.

[A]

Paul Thomas Anderson one. That's the one I tried to read the book of. That's Inherent Vice.

[B]

That's Inherent Vice. Infinite just is like the stereotypical, like, ponytail college bro.

[C]

Like, performative.

[B]

Performative male. Like David Foster Wallace before he died.

[A]

Oh, no. No, I have not.

[B]

And like, there's. There's half of it's about tennis because he thought like, yeah, yeah. I don't know.

[A]

Know. No, Mike, the Last time I quit reading books. Al. Together is you. You tried to make me read a book about surfing, and I quit reading books for, like, six years.

[B]

Barbarian Days by William Finnegan. Jake Decker just here this weekend and agrees. It's amazing.

[A]

I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I'm back. I'm back on the book thing.

[B]

Need you to do it. That was non fiction. Now you're back on Kurt Vonnegut.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

I'm Ben Hansen. I'm just reading Kurt Vonnegut in the sa.

[A]

Never.

[B]

Oh, he talks about Breakfast Channel champions. Yeah. Slaughterhouse 5. Sirens of Titan is my favorite one. I have a few here.

[A]

Okay. Hey, consider me open to suggestions. Now, I. I got sauna time now.

[B]

You mean you don't want to read Native Wine Grapes of Italy?

[A]

Not again.

[B]

You don't want to read Cellar Rat? You don't want to read Making Sense of Burgundy by Matt Kramer.

[A]

Oh, God. My dad's waking up in a cold sweat and doesn't know why.

[B]

You don't want to read the New French wine, Volume 1 1, the history, or Volume 2, the producers.

[A]

Are most of those books. Wine books behind you.

[B]

Yeah, the whole. This whole room.

[A]

Oh, my. Wait, wait.

[B]

Don't want to read Wine Grapes?

[A]

It's so big, Jess, you can end the call anytime you want to.

[C]

No, this is great. I'm learning so much that. That's a big book.

[B]

Look at it. Oh, Infinite.

[C]

Just two.

[A]

So many grapes.

[B]

Wait, wait.

[A]

Do you think I would like Infinite Jest or that book that you're holding More?

[B]

Yes, this book that I'm holding. More Infinite.

[C]

Because you would actually learn something.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, you'd actually be better person for it, not just a douchebag. Whoa, look at the section on Pinot Noir.

[A]

It just keeps going.

[C]

Oh, now we're talking.

[B]

It's not done yet.

[A]

Don't humor him, Jesse.

[B]

Oh, Pinot Munier ruin the party. All right, thank you, everybody, for joining episode 117. We will be back in a couple weeks, and we'll be starting to solidify our Game of the year plans. It's been a blast. It's been a good year so far. None of you. Please ruin it. Or please don't ruin it. Don't ruin it. But thank you again, Jesse, for joining. Dan, thanks for joining, as always. We will see everybody in a couple weeks. Until then.

[A]

Sa.