Fire Escape Cast #121

Summary

Fire Escape Cast #121 – Episode Summary

Date: December 2, 2025
Hosts: Dan Ryckert, Mary Kish, Mike Mahardy
Episode Focus: Pre-Game of the Year catch-up, retro tech nostalgia, Metroid Prime 4 impressions, spotlight on indie games and roguelites, sharing gaming memories, and a robust Q&A segment.

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Episode Overview

This episode captures the Fire Escape crew's easy rapport, retro and gaming nostalgia, and their signature blend of critical game discussion with lived-in, comedic banter. Main topics include Metroid Prime 4 impressions ahead of GOTY debates, enthusiastic discussions of CRTs and VHS tapes, breakdowns of new indie gems, and preparations for the upcoming group Game of the Year event. The hosts also answer listener questions, reflect on personal histories, and do some light ribbing about their past living arrangements and gaming obsessions.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Nostalgia: Retro Tech and Home Upgrades

• [01:54]–[05:16] Mary’s CRT & VHS Revival

  • Mary sets up a 13-inch CRT with built-in VHS in her kitchen, inspired by holiday nostalgia (“making Christmas dinner while watching The Lion King”).
  • Deep-dive into VHS collecting: pricing, Disney “vault” releases, and negotiation stories.
  • The joys and perils of old VCR hardware, especially risking irreplaceable home videos.

  “You know, an old, like nostalgia shot, you know, just to make you feel good. It's not like the most convenient. It's just something that. That takes you back.” – Mary ([22:12])

• [16:24]–[17:33] Black Friday skepticism and TV-buying tips

  • The hosts discuss the best times and strategies to buy televisions, “future proofing”, and the tricks retailers use to inflate discounts.

• [19:10]–[21:37] Analog Media Rituals

  • Dan and Mary share stories of making mixtapes and home VHS “best of” collections in the pre-digital era.
  • Dan describes his old workflow editing commercials out as a “VCR wizard”.
  • The importance of physical setup knowledge (wiring RCA cables, etc.) as a rite of passage for that generation.

2. Music, Mixtapes & Teen Embarrassment

• [22:21]–[29:02] First Mixtapes & Musical Heroes

  • The hosts reminisce about their first mixtapes and CDs—Mike's "Mike Monsters Mix" and Dan’s radio-taped Dr. Dre tracks.
  • A recurring question: Which musicians would be terrible or awesome to hang out with?
    • E.g., Anthony Kiedis “would be awful to hang out with” – Mike ([24:44]), Jack Black/Kyle Gass and Billy Corgan debates.

  “What if all my lyrics were like, flip, flop, doopie, you know? Like, that's also obnoxious.” – Dan (on Kiedis, [25:25])

3. Gaming Modernization and GOTY Housekeeping

• [12:56]–[14:33] Game of the Year Recording Plans
  • Fire Escape’s live GOTY stream is planned for December 6 on Dan's Twitch, with a two-part audio release.
  • Discussion of the upcoming Game Awards and coordination logistics.

4. Metroid Prime 4: First Impressions

• [34:32]–[58:08] Deep Dive into Metroid Prime 4

  • Dan is 60–70% through and delivers a lengthy breakdown:
    • Feels “up there with the first one” in the Metroid Prime series, possibly second-best.
    • The new partially open world is compared to Ocarina’s Hyrule Field or Gears 5’s semi-open acts rather than Breath of the Wild’s true open world.
    • Bike traversal – “just feels cool,” enhances the emptiness of the deserts.
    • Character complaints (“Miles McKenzie”): Annoying at first, “but not a big deal,” doesn’t spoil the “lonely, exploratory” Metroid vibe.
    • Maintains “Metroid DNA”: exploration, upgrades, scanning, logbooks.
    • New “psychic” abilities are more of a theme/branding, not a huge gameplay revolution.
    • No frustrating exposition (“Atreus/Aloy hints”), lots of environmental storytelling.
    • Motion controls, accessibility tweaks, and a strong return to form. Boss battles especially praised.
    • “It is a tremendous game.” – Dan ([55:41])

  “It looks the way you remember Metroid Prime 1 looking in the same way that … when you play Wind Waker HD… It is looking the way you remember it looked when you were being blown away by the first metroid prime in ‘02.” – Dan ([54:44])

5. Recent Indie & Roguelite Picks

• [64:47]–[72:35] Goodnight Universe (Nice Dream) – Mary’s Pick

  • Eye-tracking/facial expression adventure where you’re a cognitively adult baby; “funny and interesting” use of player emotion and head movement.
  • “It gets really good, especially towards the end…I loved this journey.” – Mary ([69:09])
  • Strong writing/acting, innovative, “excellent game,” 4–5 hours long.

• [74:29]–[81:28] Bollocks Pit – Mike’s Roguelite Discovery

  • Vampire Survivors–style auto-shooter with an engaging town management loop.
  • “Progression clicks a lot better for me than Vampire Survivors.”
  • Smart meta-progression, secrets, satisfying gameplay.
  • “You really can kind of break this game if you…upgrade a character the right way.”

• [81:40]–[89:19] Moonlighter 2 (Mary)

  • Roguelite dungeon-crawler/shop-sim hybrid.
  • Heavier emphasis on inventory/puzzle mechanics and risk/reward.
  • Slightly generic world-building, but “the loop is sick.”

• [91:09]–[93:28] And Roger – Dan

  • Short empathy game about dementia, “incredible animation.”
  • “It does a really like beautiful job of communicating that.”
  • A recommendation for “an evening experience.”

6. Other Games, Community, and Anecdotes

• [60:36]–[64:47] Kirby Air Ride (Switch release) – Dan
  • It “finally went too far” for Nintendo chaos, but respects its wildness.
• [98:33]–[103:18] Arc Raiders – Mary, Dan, Mike
  • PvEvP survival extraction shooter with smart design (free loadouts, safe pocket).
  • Excitement about learning player skills and social encounters.
  • Hilarious speculation about the canonical location of your “safe pocket.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan on CRT nostalgia:

  “I'm nostalgic for cartridges and CDs and cassettes and stuff. But like, man, that was a pain in the ass.” ([19:37])

• Mary on owning embarrassing high school PSAs:

  “Maybe like five or ten years later I was like, I'm pretty glad I don't have any of those memories.” ([08:32])

• Mike on Bollocks Pit synergies:

  “The more you get to know the game and the more you see through the matrix, the more you realize they're actually allowing you to break the game.” ([77:11])

• Mary on Game of the Year:

  “The best argument you might not necessarily have the best game, but you have found a way to articulate your point that is convincing to the group. There is a political nature to this battle.” ([151:40])

• Dan on game design psychology:

  “There are certain … people who bring like psychologists on staff to how do we incentivize players to keep playing and not stopping and check in every two hours… If you play it for like five or six hours and you just kind of just feel like you were just in this trance… that type of stuff kind of weirds me out.” ([132:37])

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Listener Q&A Highlights

• [106:03]–[116:05] Embarrassing high school/college habits

  • Dan reveals he didn’t know you were supposed to wash sheets and hoodies until adulthood (“I blame a lot of things on my dad, and I think a lot of it’s fair.”)
  • The group shares photos and stories of their own “guy apartments” and the low bar for male living standards.

• [120:32]–[124:54] What they wish they tried in high school

  • Mike: wishes he did more theater/performing
  • Mary: wanted to be a camp counselor, regrets not learning to read music

• [125:01]–[134:28] Longest time played in a game

  • Doc Hensla writes in with his 7,200+ hours in Hearthstone.
  • Dan’s is Soul Calibur (~600 hours), Mike’s is Warhammer 3 (~600–1,200 hours, real/idle time), Mary recalls Team Fortress 2/Left 4 Dead 2 but rarely returns to massive playtimes.
  • Reflections on the difference between “zen” play and manipulative grind.

• [134:28]–[155:53] Favorite/Least Favorite Game of the Year Process Stories

  • Both “performative” debate and thin-skinned emotional outbursts described as GOTY hazards.
  • Memories from past Giant Bomb, Polygon, and GameSpot decision rooms—the politics of "spending your points," and how Fire Escape’s environment is healthier and more fun.

  “I still think about ‘you’re not important enough to be this annoying.’ … There’s never been a more laser beam attack at me.” – Dan (on Mary’s style, [155:53])

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Important Timestamps

• Mary’s CRT & VHS Nostalgia: [01:54] – [07:39]
• Metroid Prime 4 Discussion: [34:32] – [58:08]
• Arc Raiders Discussion: [98:33] – [103:18]
• Listener Questions Begin: [105:24]
• Game of the Year Reflections: [134:28] – End

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Tone & Format

Freewheeling, conversational, and densely packed with in-jokes, personal stories, and the group’s unique gaming/life philosophies. The hosts are quick to make fun of themselves and each other, but dig deep when it comes to nostalgia, gaming as an emotional outlet, and explaining what makes a game, or a gaming community, meaningful to them.

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Summary Table of Games Discussed

| Game | Segment Start | Main Commentators | Key Notes | |-----------------------------|--------------|-------------------|---------------------------------------| | Metroid Prime 4 | 34:32 | Dan | Impressions, design evolution, hype | | Goodnight Universe | 64:52 | Mary | Eye-tracking adventure, strong writing| | Bollocks Pit | 74:29 | Mike, Mary | Roguelite, progression, synergies | | Moonlighter 2 | 81:40 | Mary | Dungeon/shop-sim hybrid, addictive | | And Roger | 91:09 | Dan | Short empathy game, dementia theme | | Kirby Air Ride (Switch) | 60:36 | Dan, Mike | “Too chaotic”, Sakurai-craziness | | Arc Raiders | 98:33 | Mary, Dan, Mike | PvPvE, QoL solutions, emergent stress | | Team Fortress 2, L4D2 | 127:16 | Mary | Most played games, 200+ hours seen | | Warhammer 3 | 128:31 | Mike | 1,000+ hours, favorite modern strat | | Various (past nostalgia) | Varies | All | Retro tech, mixtapes, VHS, PSAs |

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Closing Remarks/Preview

• The hosts are gearing up for the annual live Game of the Year debate and stream (Dec 6), promising passion, humor, and their signature blend of chaos and critical love.
• Listeners are encouraged to send in more questions to firescapecastmail.com.
• Regular reminders about Patreon, upcoming Arc Raiders bonus content, and where to find merchandise.

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This summary should give you an immersive sense of the episode’s discussions, the team’s personalities, and the most meaningful and memorable moments—with timestamps and quotes to quickly zero in on the topics that matter most to you.

Transcript

[Dan Reichert]

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[Mike Mahardy]

What's happening? Billy Krappinen, welcome back to the Fire Escape Cast. It is episode 121, I think something like that is 65 degrees Fahrenheit in Tallahassee, Florida. Thank you so much for coming back to the show. Dan Riker here, as always.

[Dan Reichert]

Night there. I don't know. What does Florida get? Florida is probably warm. Well, why do you have Tallahassee's weather up on your phone right now?

[Mike Mahardy]

Because I'm a professional host who calls out the weather at the beginning. What do you mean, why do I have it?

[Dan Reichert]

That's a cultured slut, A.B.

[Mary Kish]

He knows things.

[Mike Mahardy]

This is like when a magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat and then you're like, why do you have a rabbit in your hands? Cuz I just did it.

[Dan Reichert]

It makes sense when John Mulaney does it on his Netflix show because it's live and he's proving it. This isn't going to go up for like a week.

[Mike Mahardy]

It doesn't matter.

[Dan Reichert]

It doesn't matter.

[Mike Mahardy]

He's also giving the weather in the city that the show shot in.

[Dan Reichert]

Exactly. None of this makes sense. Mike. This is a terrible opening. And my name's not Billy.

[Mike Mahardy]

I've been loving it. Dan Reichert here, as always.

[Dan Reichert]

Hello.

[Mike Mahardy]

How are you doing?

[Dan Reichert]

I'm doing great.

[Mike Mahardy]

Aside from being irate.

[Dan Reichert]

I'm not angry. No, no, no. It's. I'm in a great mood.

[Mike Mahardy]

Good. Good to hear. I'm excited about some, some, some decor changes happening to your house. I'm sure you'll announce it sometime in the future, but you gave us a little sneak peek.

[Dan Reichert]

You probably just see it in the background. If everything goes the way I'm hoping it does.

[Mike Mahardy]

I can't wait for that. Mary Kish, what have you been up to?

[Mary Kish]

I've also been making upgrades to my house. I bought a CRT with a VHS in the crt.

[Mike Mahardy]

Nice.

[Mary Kish]

And added to my kitchen the good stuff.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay. Hook up a concert.

[Mary Kish]

And I bought Home Alone.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, wait, seriously? In Home Alone, he has. They have that kind of TV on their counter in the kitchen when he's like, that's how he does the dirty the filthy animal line.

[Mary Kish]

Home Alone ception. So the goal is not game console which is cool and obviously I could utilize it. I have a Sega Genesis so it'd be cool to like be able to play sonic spinball in my kitchen. But the impetus of this was I was like how nice would it be to watch, you know, movies that I love watching on Christmas while I'm making Christmas dinner, et cetera. So I was not estate sailing. It was like just resale shopping at different, you know, vintage shops. And I saw a 13 inch CRT in fully good working condition, pristine with a VHS in it. And I thought to myself if I get this right now, I could also go shopping for all the VHS that I loved watching as a kid. I could install it in my kitchen today. And I was watching the Lion King while I was making dinner this evening. It has been God tier that is.

[Dan Reichert]

It'S the right size for like a countertop or you could go nuts and you could do the thing where you like mount it to the underside of the like the cup cabinet or something. But a big ass CRT, I feel like that's probably a bit, it's even 13. It's probably a bit too heavy for that.

[Mary Kish]

It's on my Instagram story right now. Like I'm like really excited with the way it came out because it's just under my cabinets and so while I'm like chopping vegetables, I can watch, I could watch a cartoon. Oh, I put, I bought Garfield. Garfield Christmas. Like I just bought like things that I like to watch as a Kid. And Bali's VHS's. It's really fun too to also learn like the range of how much should a. How, how much do you think Aladdin on VHS costs? Honestly? Tell me.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, I mean like on a resale thing like I, I usually just see lots of VHS things where it's like $2 a tape. Come grab however many you want. So I, I would say two to five dollars.

[Mike Mahardy]

Are we doing closest without going over estimate?

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, we'll do price is right rolls.

[Dan Reichert]

Disney did that stupid vault thing, right?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah Dan, you can, you can take a second guess.

[Mary Kish]

Disney's are more, I'm not going to say they're more difficult, I'm just saying they're more coveted.

[Dan Reichert]

Like if you're the big stupid, the plastic like because there's stuff to do.

[Mary Kish]

Has the big plastic case.

[Dan Reichert]

Seven bucks.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, $29.

[Mary Kish]

So most of These I was able to acquire between 5 and $8. Lion King was $7. If you go to certain resellers, I was finding them for $25. To which I was like, you dreaming? But every person has their own selling price and the rarer it is, the higher it goes. But I bought like 20 VHS today for like 4 or 5 bucks. Some of them 7 or $8. I think the more expensive ones worth going to for $10. But anyway, I bought probably $100 worth of classic movies and CRT and started watching them in my kitchen.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean Facebook marketplace, if you just search for like VHS tapes, like that is a gold mine for that. Because that's just something that everyone's getting rid of. No one has CRTs anymore. So if you've got one, you can just get. I've got a ton in the closet that I bought recently. Like two bucks a tape. It's great.

[Mary Kish]

You have a. Do you have a VHS player, like a tape?

[Dan Reichert]

It's behind this or underneath this crt? Yeah, Y.

[Mary Kish]

You're ready to go. I. I love having it in the tv. It's so nice that it's like ready to go in the same system.

[Dan Reichert]

So are you pan and scan or you letterbox the what? Well, so with movies in 4x3, right, you know, you're doing letter. They would sell two versions for big movies where it's like the letterboxd one or the one where they like had to like bastardize it after the fact. And like this is why 16x9 was so good for widescreen TVs, cuz like movies you. You don't have to like sacrifice either way.

[Mary Kish]

You know, I think everything's four by three because that's okay.

[Dan Reichert]

So you pan and that's pan and scan. So they had to like go in after the fact. That's why it would take forever after a movie came out in the theaters. Because they would have to pan and scan it and go in there. Be like, ah, you don't need to see this 30% of the screen over here. Just. We'll cut that out and. Oh, but we do. We'll pan over here for this part and Yeah, I hate that.

[Mary Kish]

I don't need any of that stuff. Yeah, you're watching Disney.

[Dan Reichert]

They don't care about composition.

[Mary Kish]

You need 2/3 of the screen at any given time. As long as I can see the genie do his funny face, I'm good.

[Mike Mahardy]

Did you. Did the TV have the remote still or is it like controls on under the slot?

[Mary Kish]

The buttons are on the unit? Yeah, everything's on. It's like one chunky unit, 4x3 with the buttons and everything. And it's really nice that the VHS works because a lot I have seen. We've all seen like, CRTs at different, like, sales and stuff like that, but a lot of times pieces are broken or they don't work put perfectly working condition.

[Dan Reichert]

I've bought old VCRs that like, they will just have problems with the head. So it's like there's like a 30% chance that any tape you put in there is just going to get chewed up. So it'd be like, terrifying because, like, I was trying to, like, I have all these old VHS tapes that I made when I was doing videos in high school and stuff.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, the ones you recorded yourself.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, we have one. It's not like I have copies or whatever. It's like, I'd like to see what this is and just comes out. Well, shit. Okay, I guess that's gone forever.

[Mike Mahardy]

That would be awful because I'm sure all those videos are amazing that you made.

[Dan Reichert]

So good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really not something smart comedy.

[Mary Kish]

Embarrassed. Actually, there is a time in my life where I was like, I took my first video production course in, in high school and I remember, like, obviously we were trying to do fake public service announcements and they were so embarrassing. We were making silly jokes and just terrible, terrible stuff. And I also had another VHS that I sent out as a demo reel to try and get my first job. And I mistakenly didn't make a copy because I was like, well, if they don't choose me, they'll just send it back. Well, they just didn't send it back and they didn't choose me. And I lost a lot of basically, like, all my high school material. And then I thought to myself, at first I was really upset and was like, damn, I can't believe I lost all those memories. And like, maybe like five or ten years later I was like, I'm pretty glad I don't have any of those memories.

[Dan Reichert]

Some of that can be. Yeah. Rough to go back to, especially like trying comedy and stuff when you're in high school. I, I remember we, we had to do a PSA once and it wasn't a parody one, it wasn't a satire. It's like it was a PSA contest and it was supposed to be about, like, oh, you know, have a good message or whatever. And they submitted it to a film festival and I won. And, like, I won, like, money and a certificate and stuff, but I think I've got it somewhere. And I watched it like in the last few years. It's just complete horseshit. It's like I filmed. I did some like, stupid film grain thing and I went to a cemetery and I just filmed a bunch of like, crazy shots of graves. And then I shot like, you know, like this k. I didn't know what drinking was when I was like 16 or 17. Like, I knew what it was, but I didn't party. And so I assumed it's like, well, I need to shoot what looks like a high schooler drinking. And so we took a wooden chair and went to my friend's basement that was just dank and concrete and had him just slumped over a table taking shot after shot by himself. And just like a concrete basement. And I'm playing the Rolling Stones paint it black over it. And then it's like taking 20 shots.

[Mike Mahardy]

And what is the message? Like, was it an anti alcohol thing?

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, he's like driving. And then the last shot. The last shot is him like. Like his head hitting the steering wheel or something. And I cut to some stat that I just clearly made up that was like, teens who drink, there's a 1 in 3 chance that they'll die behind the wheel or just something like that.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

And it won. It won the award. I got like a certificate for it.

[Mike Mahardy]

I. The more I hear about your childhood, the more I'm con. I'm glad we met when we did. I don't think I would have been friends with you.

[Dan Reichert]

I think we would have. I think we would have been. You were a narc in a similar way now. No.

[Mike Mahardy]

Was that. Or was that Mary? I remember it was. It was like 30 episodes ago. We were talking about. You told.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, I. I was wheeling and dealing, but I also did a lot of PSAs that were embarrassing. I remember one in high school we did a lot of times we would just pick a school rule and be like, don't do this because it's against the rules. And one of them was, you're not allowed to street race in the parking lot. And so of course we were like, let's. Let's make a street race video. So we made a video and it's just like, I think I'm the person who drops the flag and it's like.

[Dan Reichert]

God, you're the cruise in usa, girl.

[Mary Kish]

Just so embarrassing. I. I'm also like, I'm such an idiot in this because I think I look a lot cooler than I do and I'm dropping this flag like I'm so hot. And these cars are. We get like close ups of the tires being like. Like jetting. And at the very end, it just goes to this sick street race, which isn't sick at all, but after it, it goes, don't race your car. That's it. It's like really actually a PSA about how cool racing your car is.

[Dan Reichert]

That seems sweet. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

I was in the company of such, like, public works aficionados.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

I made a. We had a video. It wasn't even on vhs. It was on a. Remember the flip cameras?

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Where you press. They had a lever and the USB would come out. We were filming one where the scene was basically like. I forget what the entire short film was about, but it was a comedy and I don't know where it is. And I'm glad that's the case because it probably isn't fun anymore. But I remember one of the funniest things I've ever seen. My friend. I'll just say his first name, Tyler. He was supposed to be doing donuts in a parking lot, but he had never done them before. So he was doing a donut and I think the idea was that he was taunting a cop in the. In the scene. And so we're in the parking lot of my high school and he starts like, you know, like he's peeling out and then he finally. He completes like one half of a donut in the back of his car and he like, spun out of control and he slammed into the concrete base of the parking lot light fixture.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

So I just had this like 30 second video on my flip of my friend and I would show all my friends. And I never deleted it. I'm sure if I found the flip camera, it's still in there, but it's just Tyler in this grand Pontiac Grand Prix. I think it was a silver one. And he just does half a donut and smashes into a light pole. He was completely fine, I should say, but his car was wrecked. Yeah. That was probably the funniest thing I had. But yeah, I also do want to, before I forget, do some housekeeping up front because we're getting toward the end of the year and we are. I believe the next episode is going to be Game of the Year. If you're listening now.

[Dan Reichert]

Crazy.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. December 6th is our live Game of the Year stream. We'll all be at Dan's place in Minneapolis, 7pm Central on Twitch TV. DanReichert, something like that. We'll. We'll put specifics up On Instagram, Saturday blue sky, etc.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, exact time, but yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

So all four of us, including our producer Jake, we will be there doing the thing we've done the last few years in a row. It'll be super fun. We will be putting out the audio versions of the episode I think as a two parter in the Mondays following the live show. That's the tentative plan.

[Dan Reichert]

So I'm looking at the calendar now. So if you were listening to this. Actually you're listening to this on the 2nd. On Tuesday the 2nd. Apologies for the delay, but as you will see we are talking about. Well, it's Metroid, I can say now because if we're hearing it, the embargoes up. I figured it was worth delaying a day for the last huge game of the year. So you are listening to this on December 2nd or later. December 6th will be the stream, as Mike said, and then part one. So we'll basically cut it in half, you know, based on categories or time or whatever will go up on December 8th, which that's just gonna be like a bonus episode because that would not have been a normal posting week anyway. So you're gonna get some back to back to back episodes this month and then the second half will be in that normally scheduled December 15th slot. So the next couple weeks you're listening on audio but live, live, live. December 6th on we're doing it on Twitch TV slash Danreichert, which will quickly be turned around and put on fire escapes. YouTube soon after that, as soon as Jake can get that up obviously big files. So give it a few days, but yeah, it'll be all over the place.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. So make sure you're following fire escapecast on YouTube. You want to see the video versions of that. And also if you're not a patron, you can get audio ad free episodes and video versions. And literally right after this recording we're going to do an arc Raiders Bon. All three of us have not played the game together yet and we've been wanting to do more bonus videos whenever we get the chance and yeah, so this should be fun. So that'll go up I believe this coming week, early this week, Monday. I'm talking to you guys right now recording wise that it'll, it'll be up in our off week. So if you're not a patron, you'll go, go do that, go become one. And then if you are, you'll be notified when that goes up. But anyway, yeah, I'm, I haven't, I don't have a VCR here. I do have some old stuff. Like I, I found a box. Like I don't have my Nintendo. Oh my God. I don't have my Wii hooked up. So I had to. I do have like a smaller T. What do you.

[Dan Reichert]

A Luddite?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I do have my. A smaller monitor with the aux ports. I almost said aux holes because I did want to hook up my Wii for a couple things.

[Dan Reichert]

I get a retro tank. Retrotink will fix any problems you have.

[Mike Mahardy]

That just go HDMI to aux.

[Dan Reichert]

The retro tank is just a thing where you can plug in any kind of input from like you know, the just red, white, yellow to the component and everything. And then that just HDMI is out. Eliminates input lag, things like that. You can add scan lines and all that. It's just the best way to play retro consoles on a modern tv, basically.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay, I'm going to. I'm due for a new TV like Black Friday thing coming soon anyway.

[Dan Reichert]

Wait, no, no. If you want a tv, wait for the Super Bowl.

[Mike Mahardy]

Super Bowl? They're cheaper.

[Dan Reichert]

Super Bowls for tv. That's when I got the hundred inch for like super duper cheap. You. You want to go Super bowl for TVs? I mean there will be deals on Black Friday, but like super bowl is the TV sale.

[Mike Mahardy]

How good to know. I haven't bought a TV in a while.

[Mary Kish]

It's important to recognize like it depends on what your goal is as well. Because a lot of times TV companies will plan to put out their old models right during Black Friday and then release new models. And so if you're intention is to get a TV that is going to be future proofed. Future? Yeah, future proof and like functional for the next like five to 10 years, you should just buy a brand new model. If you buy one on Black Friday, you're probably buying an older model or one right before they shift models. But it's still a great way to save money depending on what kind of deals you get. I also think like I'm so skeptical of Black Friday because so often they'll just be like it's $100 off, but they're gonna put it $100 off anyway. And they just.

[Dan Reichert]

Sure, sure. Or they inflated it in the month leading up to it just so they could say they take it down and blah, blah, I'm gonna buy some new.

[Mike Mahardy]

Nice. Oh, sorry, go ahead.

[Mary Kish]

Oh no, I just think like all so many companies do that now. It's like so obvious. It's like a shrinkflation thing too. It's just like they're essentially raising their prices anyway, and then they have a deal so that you're not mad at them for raising their prices. Does that make sense? They'll be like, it's 20% off. But it's like. But you guys just raised your prices by 20%.

[Dan Reichert]

Yep.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm gonna wait for to get my Christmas tree until the super bowl too. See if that. See if that saves me money.

[Dan Reichert]

That's probably not a bad idea.

[Mary Kish]

So glad you saved that joke. That was really worth good holding on to.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

The trees will probably all be dead by then. Unless they didn't take them out of the ground. Oh, you could just do what I do. I go to Central park every year, I cut down a tree and I bring it home.

[Dan Reichert]

That seems legal.

[Mary Kish]

They love that.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm kidding.

[Dan Reichert]

What. What would the law said be? Just like, there's got to be a lot.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's public property.

[Dan Reichert]

Illegal.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, but it's trees.

[Dan Reichert]

It's the land.

[Mike Mahardy]

And mom Donnie's land. I might be able to. He might be pro tree cutting. We should get him on. We could probably get him on.

[Dan Reichert]

Hell yeah. Yeah, that'd be Bring him on.

[Mary Kish]

That's a man of the people.

[Mike Mahardy]

I hear he's a big balls on the SNES fan.

[Dan Reichert]

Balls 3D.

[Mike Mahardy]

Balls 3D. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I bet he's played some games. I'm just guessing. He's. He's probably younger than all of us.

[Mike Mahardy]

Maybe he's like. He's 34, I want to say.

[Dan Reichert]

Jesus Christ.

[Mary Kish]

So accomplished, so smart. He was on. He was on Twitch right before the election as well, which was really weird.

[Mike Mahardy]

Politics. What's with these files everybody's talking about? No, I'm kidding. Anything else new with either of you?

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a busy time of year, right?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Game of the year time. It's travel time. It's family time. It's holidays. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah. In fact, that's why we had to record a little earlier than we usually do. It's because this is Thanksgiving week, and so we're. We have family. My mother is in town right now. She's downstairs watching.

[Mike Mahardy]

Hi, Patty.

[Mary Kish]

She's Amy.

[Mike Mahardy]

Amy.

[Dan Reichert]

Susie. Hey, Susie.

[Mary Kish]

She's watching the Great British British Bake off right now on the crt.

[Dan Reichert]

Just hunch over the counter. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

You don't think you get the Great British Bake off on a crt? She's watching that on my regular. But it's so funny because if you go into the kitchen, Aladdin is playing right now. Nice as it should be.

[Mike Mahardy]

That'd be a nice ambiance thing. Just always have a VHS like playing in that tv even if you're not in the room.

[Dan Reichert]

I used to have like back in the days of like cartridges and CDs and stuff. There are always those things that seemed so luxurious where it's like, it'd be a switcher or like a tower of. You can put a 12 disc changer in this. So 12 CDs and you can swap between them all. They had a thing for the Genesis where it's like you can put six cartridges in there or you can buy numerous and hook it all up so then you'd have all your cartridges plugged in at all times. It's like, man, things just used to be like, I. I'm nostalgic for cartridges and CDs and cassettes and stuff. But like, man, that was a pain in the ass.

[Mary Kish]

It was a complicated time. But it was also a rite of passage to be able to hook it up and actually make it work. I am proud of that era where it was like, right. Red into the red, yellow into the yellow, white into the white. Like you have to have all of the different wires connected so that all your shit worked. And I don't know, it's a. It's a badge of honor. Kind of like how our parents said, like I had to walk uphill.

[Dan Reichert]

Sure.

[Mary Kish]

To work both ways, 10, 10 miles. And it's like I had to plug in the white wire, the yellow wire and the red wire. And if anything was wrong, nothing worked. You had your dad, a car, everything for cartridges.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

My dad, Jim Kish, loves it's red over white.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Idiot.

[Dan Reichert]

I remember when, before they started putting out Simpsons DVDs. Obviously before DVDs were a thing. I so desperately wanted to have all my favorite Simpsons episodes like at the ready all the time. Yeah. And they would occasionally put out like, oh, here's like the Simpsons. Here's three Christmas episodes on one VHS or whatever. But like, I wanted to be able to like watch the Lemon Tree or whatever whenever I wanted to. So I still, I have in my storage, I've got tons of perfectly labeled things. I was probably 12 years old labeling. Just this one's got, you know, 12 Simpsons episodes on. I would do the extended play thing so you could actually record more of them on there. And this is Lemon Tree. This is Monorail. This is like. I would cut out the commercials and yeah, I was, I would. In the wrestling days, I would have to like watch Raw and then record it Record Nitro and like set it to record the right channel and all that. I was a VCR wizard back then.

[Mike Mahardy]

Do you ever watch those, like those vhs?

[Dan Reichert]

I will occasionally, like, if I have people over for something like, you know, if I have people over for like a wrestling pay per view or whatever, I'll put in one of the old wrestling VHS's I had and just have it play on the CRT in another part of the room. So, yeah, it's kind of fun. Or like, like I'll have tapes that are just labeled comedy. And I'm like, oh, okay, what did I think comedy was in. In 1998 or whatever? And it's just like, okay, it's just a bunch of like Letterman and Conan and, you know, Daily show bits and Insomniac or whatever. So South Park. So, yeah, it's always fun. It's like going back to an old mixtape, like an old cd and just like, oh, what I. What do they make as a mixtape in 2002?

[Mary Kish]

You know, an old, like nostalgia shot, you know, just to make you feel good. It's not like the most convenient. It's just something that. That takes you back.

[Mike Mahardy]

Do you. Do you guys happen to remember one, at least one of the songs on your first ever mixtape or Burn cd?

[Mary Kish]

I mean, I do vividly, yes. There goes My hero. Is like on one of my very first tapes that I was like, this song is so good.

[Mike Mahardy]

Well, it still is.

[Mary Kish]

Have to record it. Oh, it's still good.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

But I like, I absolutely have the record on. On a lot of those classics.

[Mike Mahardy]

Let me, let me throw this at you and see what your reaction is. I remember one song and I remember the name of my first. I wasn't around when, like, you could make mixtapes, but. Or I wasn't old enough to be making them, but I remember my first Burn cd and I had a label and everything and I named the CD and one of the songs was Story of a Girl I forget. And the CD was called Mike Monsters Mix.

[Dan Reichert]

Nice.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

You still have that?

[Mike Mahardy]

Probably somewhere at my parents.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, sweet.

[Mike Mahardy]

I was going for like a Nevermind thing. Is Nevermind the one with the baby in the pool? Yes, I was going for that. Just without the baby. It was just a pool.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, cool.

[Mike Mahardy]

I don't think my parents would have been cool with a baby on the COVID underwater. But yeah, Mike Monster was my nickname for like two weeks.

[Dan Reichert]

Mine was. I. I am old enough to do mixtapes and I would put in a cassette tape and I would call the radio Station and I would like. So I remember the first time I did this. I really wanted Dr. Dre's nothing but a G thing. And so I called in to the radio station and said, I want nothing but a G thing. I'm like, 1991. I was probably like 7 years old. And so I have to sit there by my boombox with a blank cassette and I'm just waiting. It took like four hours for them to know this one because I had Dan requesting this or whatever, Nothing but a G thing. And then hit play and record at the same time. So that's how I would get them all is by calling the fucking radio station and just sitting by the boombox for hours.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I remind. That reminds me of, like, I think the last song I remember, like, waiting or at least being really psyched every time it came on the radio was Danny California. And I just didn't have the money to buy Stadium Arcadium, especially because of.

[Dan Reichert]

Two disc, two disk.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Saturn and Mars, I believe. Or Pluto and Mars. Apologies. I'm embarrassed.

[Dan Reichert]

Deep.

[Mike Mahardy]

But yeah, Danny California. Every time it came on, my brother and I would be freaking out.

[Dan Reichert]

Do you think Anthony Kiedis would be awful to hang out with or awesome.

[Mike Mahardy]

Based on his autobiography, pretty awful.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, is he. Is he like. I don't really know anything about. He just strikes me as a very obnoxious dude.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay, but is he also, like, a bad dude? I don't really know his, like, personal story.

[Mike Mahardy]

I haven't read Scar Tissue in a while. I know he grew up pretty rough.

[Dan Reichert]

We had the heroin thing going. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think I want to say he did it. I might. I mix this up sometimes, and I'm not trying to sound judgmental, but I believe the first time he did Heroin, he was 9. And the first time he had sex, he was 14. And I believe it was with, like, a stepmom or something. Yeah. Yes, something like that. But no, just the way it was written. I remember it being very, very douchey. Okay.

[Dan Reichert]

But I got, like, weird Jim Morrison vibes from him. But, like, Jim Morrison was always trying to be like, deep poet, cool guy. And Anthony Kiedis is just like, what if all my lyrics were like, flip, flop, doopie, you know? Like, that's also obnoxious.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

What if I made. What if I took hip hop but made it bad? I had my Red Hot Chili Peppers.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, they've got some very good songs.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, for sure. But no, I don't really feel an urge to hang out with him?

[Dan Reichert]

No, I don't think I want.

[Mike Mahardy]

What's the number one musician you don't.

[Mary Kish]

Want to meet your heroes just listen to their music, enjoy the music.

[Mike Mahardy]

What's the number one musician you think would be awesome to hang out with that you also like their music?

[Dan Reichert]

Alive.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes. Yeah. Yes, yes. Alive. You like their music and you think they'd be awesome to hang out with?

[Dan Reichert]

Mike, I know yours is Kid Rock. I'm trying to think.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think yours is Chris Brown. Right? And then Mary's a big. Mary's a big Diddy fan.

[Dan Reichert]

You know what? I bet Ludacris would be pretty fun to hang out with. He seems like kind of a fun guy today. Yeah, I liked it when all of his music videos were him with like big Hulk hands and stuff. And like, he was. He was a lot wackier back in the day, I feel. I don't really know what he's doing now.

[Mike Mahardy]

So. I mean, you could. Yeah, you'd have. Correct me if I'm wrong, that's. He was the one in Fast and Furious, right? A couple of them. A few of them. He was in two tons of them and then the rest of them. At least you'd have that common ground to talk to him about. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't really know that much about Fast and Furious, but he just always seemed like kind of a fun dude.

[Mary Kish]

Jack Black and Kyle Gass would probably be pretty fun, but that's not together.

[Mike Mahardy]

These days, I don't think.

[Mary Kish]

But I think they still get along. I just think that one of them has to protect their movie deals. I don't think you can.

[Mike Mahardy]

Fair enough.

[Mary Kish]

I don't think you can be super political and also be in a Mario.

[Mike Mahardy]

Movie when you're the more popular one who makes the most money. Yeah. You have to protect to. You have to be a bit more tight lipped.

[Mary Kish]

I think he rides the line. But I bet you they're. I bet you they're friends. I don't think that that ruined a friendship. I actually doubt it, considering. I actually think like. I bet you. My guess is, is that he actually does align with him politically. He just doesn't want to shout from the rooftop. That's my guess.

[Mike Mahardy]

I go back and forth. I would love to run into David Byrne. I feel like.

[Dan Reichert]

I bet you would have a lot to talk to David Byrne about. I don't know if I would.

[Mike Mahardy]

Well, yeah, I mean, he's my favorite musician, so I probably have big suits. Oh, yeah, big suits. I waltz around in oversized clothes all the time. I'm known to do that. But I also seems like a guy.

[Dan Reichert]

That would, like, talk to you about wine and books. Yep.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I think so. And. But he went on Louis Theroux podcast recently. I think he's at a point in his life now where he's definitely admitting that he could be a tough person to work with when they were still songwriting as a group. But there's definitely, like many phases of. Of his life where I don't think I'd like hanging out with him, even though I love his music with all my heart. Oh, here. Here's someone who's someone you hate but love their music you would not want to hang out with ever, but you love. Yeah, he's a good one.

[Mary Kish]

Billy Corgan is, like, kind of notoriously a piece of shit.

[Dan Reichert]

He's.

[Mary Kish]

And I think he's, like, really hurt a lot of his bandmates, who I actually respect. But Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness is so good. And I think a huge part of what makes that music so good is his distinct tone and voice. I just don't. I don't think he's replaceable, but I do think he's not a good person.

[Dan Reichert]

I. I love Bob Dylan's music. I bet he would suck to hang out with.

[Mary Kish]

I think so too.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't think he'd be like, a shitty person necessarily. I think I would just be like, man, I just can't get anything out of this dude.

[Mike Mahardy]

I can't wait for the emails telling us that every one of these people is actually terrible.

[Dan Reichert]

Super duper canceled.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm sure they are. Yeah. Speaking of which, and this is. I don't. I'm not actually trying to, like, be political, but this is really funny. I saw a Reddit headline. I saw a Reddit headline today that the Sham.

[Dan Reichert]

Wow.

[Mike Mahardy]

Guy is running for Congress in Texas.

[Mary Kish]

Wonderful punch like a woman.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. He's running on an anti woke agenda. That's what I saw.

[Dan Reichert]

That is the most shocking thing. Knock me over over with a feather. Mike the Sham.

[Mary Kish]

Wow.

[Dan Reichert]

Guy isn't woke.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, my whole worldview is shook.

[Mike Mahardy]

I forgot he was a person.

[Dan Reichert]

He'll be president. It's fine.

[Mary Kish]

He's like. His, like, hashtag is like, let's clean up this titty city.

[Mike Mahardy]

This titty city.

[Mary Kish]

This titty city.

[Dan Reichert]

Cleanup.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, but.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, Axl Rose. I. I like him as a singer and frontman a lot. I bet he suc. Sucks.

[Mary Kish]

Is that probably true for a lot of rock stars? I question, like, James Hetfield Buckethead. Like, I just feel Like, a lot of these people are, like, not super great to. To actually chill with.

[Dan Reichert]

Sure. Slash. I bet current day Slash would be okay.

[Mike Mahardy]

I honestly don't think I knew Slash.

[Mary Kish]

I would like to believe this.

[Mike Mahardy]

How old is Slash now?

[Dan Reichert]

I'm going to guess 70s, 80s, 50. I'm going to guess 57.

[Mike Mahardy]

Really?

[Dan Reichert]

Or maybe early 60s, maybe.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, I would say, like, I was going at least 70.

[Dan Reichert]

He's 60? Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Really?

[Dan Reichert]

This year? Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Huh. They're younger than I thought.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, they were in, like, the late 80s, early 90s when they were at their peak. So 20 something.

[Mike Mahardy]

You know, Rolling Stones. They're like late 70s now, right?

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, they're like. I think Mick and Keith are probably close to like, 80 something now. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

They've looked like they were 80 for 40 years now.

[Dan Reichert]

I saw them, I guess it's probably like 10 years ago now, and like, God damn, they were like 70 something at the time and they were like. I guess when it's. It's one of those things where that's all they do. That's all they've done their entire lives. And it's just like their bodies are just, you know, built for it and touring and everything. Like, they were actually pretty fantastic. Yeah. Spring Springsteen's another one of those guys that's, like, very old, but, like, the energy levels and everything.

[Mary Kish]

I saw Springsteen not that long ago and I thought he did great.

[Dan Reichert]

Like, he's a great live show. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

They still have it. I don't know. I don't think everybody, like, loses their luster.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, you know who does? Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan. Extremely lost.

[Mike Mahardy]

I've heard he's, like, asleep on stage.

[Dan Reichert]

I. I saw Bob Dylan twice because I just felt like I had to because he's one of my favorites. And both times it's just like. There was one time he started singing and it was like two minutes into the song before I realized, oh, this is like a Rolling Stone. This is like his most famous song. But he just goes up there. You have no idea what the he's singing or just like grunting into the microphone. It's like, oh, this is. Is an awful concert.

[Mike Mahardy]

I've had a few friends tell me that I don't have a desire to see him anymore. Yeah. All right, well, sorry, Mary. Go ahead.

[Mary Kish]

All of our heroes lost to time.

[Dan Reichert]

When I hung out with George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic, they were very cool. And I was 18 and they gave me beer. That was cool. I was on stage with them and then went back to hotel and shot a little sketch and they were all very cool, funky dudes.

[Mary Kish]

And where are they now?

[Dan Reichert]

They're George Clinton's alive, he's sober. Clinton's doing better than ever.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, good for him.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, he was going to be dead.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't know. Bootsy Collins. Bootsy Collins was not there that night. But yeah, I think a lot of P. Funk is doing well.

[Mike Mahardy]

All right, you want to talk about video games?

[Mary Kish]

I do.

[Mike Mahardy]

Alienware's biggest sale of the season lets you unleash peak performance at Cyber Monday Savings get the best prices of the year on select Alienware PCs like the groundbreaking Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming lab, taking performance to the next level with Intel Core Ultra processors.

[Mary Kish]

Plus, you can save on the latest accessories and displays like the Alienware 32.4K QD OLED gaming monitor. Visit alienware.com deals before the lowest prices of the year go dark.

[Mike Mahardy]

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Dan Reichert]

Hey Bowen, it's gift season.

[Mike Mahardy]

Ugh. Stressing me out. Why people I love so hard to shop for?

[Dan Reichert]

Probably because they only make boring gift.

[Mike Mahardy]

Guides that are totally uninspired.

[Dan Reichert]

Except for the guide we made in.

[Mike Mahardy]

Partnership with Marshalls, where premium gifts meet incredible value. It's giving gifts with categories like Best Gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto, or Best Gifts for me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have. Check out the guide on marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at Marshalls.

[Dan Reichert]

Do you know what happens when you replace your regular old electric water heater with a new electric heat pump water heater? You boost your savings a lot. In fact, Energy Star estimates that a family of four will save an average of $550 a year on their electric energy bills. And your new heat pump water heater can pay for itself in as little as three years. Level up with a heat pump water heater. Go to levelup my water heater.com to learn more.

[Mike Mahardy]

All right, as mentioned, we are a day late with the episode because we were waiting for the Metroid Prime 4 embargo. Dan, you are the only one here who's been playing it. You said you're about 3/4ish of the way through as of this recording.

[Dan Reichert]

Based on what they show, like, oh, get this many things and not three quarters, I'd say maybe 60, 70% is kind of where I'm feeling right now. Yeah, it has been My entire weekend. It has been a lot of 4am nights and stuff like that. I am actually intending on doing a written review of it for Giant Bomb. So as this episode goes up, it should also have a written article at Giant Bomb that you should check out unless something goes awry. But yeah, I've got that pretty much ready to go. Metroid Prime. Yes. What is your two experiences with this series?

[Mike Mahardy]

Sorry, I'll be right back in like two minutes.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, I got it. Go ahead. Prime or Metroid or Prime. Big fan of Metroid and really enjoyed the last in the series. I think I'm trying to understand, like, where we're at now with the latest prime and what this has added to the series.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, it's been so long now and it feels like just the whole history of Metroid is so weird where it's like it always felt like Japan never really understood what, like, they always tried to bring Metroid to the States because they're like, oh, okay. Well, they like first person shooters and stuff there. And that's why, you know, Metroid prime was kind of a first person, you know, that was a big debate back in the day. Is like this. Is. Is this an FPS Metroid Prime? No, it's not. It plays very differently. It's a 3D metroidvania. But they were doing like weird multiplayer stuff and pinball stuff and you know, the, the DS game and like, they've been all over the place with the series for so long. And I think the prime series is the one thing outside of just that core 2D traditional metroidvania series that they've really, really nailed. Like, do you remember Other M? Did you ever play that, Mary?

[Mary Kish]

I don't think I played Other M. It's.

[Dan Reichert]

It's like with such. They've made so many weird missteps with this series where it's like, this is one where they made like Samus is like super sassy and we're gonna put a bunch of cutscenes in here.

[Mary Kish]

And she's well, excuse me.

[Dan Reichert]

It's basically that. It's basically that they gave it to Team Ninja and gave her like. It's just. It's not at all what makes Metroid Metroid and Prime is Metroid as it should be in 3D. And the first one, I think is definitely the best in the series. It is just kind of that like, lonely, isolated experience of just Samus in space as you're traveling between all these planets and things like that. Two got a little bogged down with this, like, kind of light world, dark world type stuff that I. I did not love. Two, that was my least favorite of the prime series. And then three was good, but it was Wii, so it was like really kind of like motion control gimmicky. So there were those three. And now it's been fucking forever since three, since that Wii game. So it's. Right.

[Mary Kish]

But we had Dread. Like, are we just saying only Prime?

[Dan Reichert]

Dread is from the. I think at the beginning it even said, like, Metroid 5, I think, because it's Metroid 1, 2, Super Metroid. And then I think Metroid fusion was technically four. Dread was five of, like, the core series. That's like the 2D metroidvania. So this is the fourth prime. And so it's been forever since we've had a Prime. I want to say corruption was like 2008 or something like that. 2000? Yeah, 2008, I think so. I think there's a lot of reason coming into this to be very skeptical because it's been all over the place from a series standpoint. Even the prime series itself has been kind of like varying levels of quality. And it's been forever. And there was a huge delay that was like, them straight up saying, like. Like, hey, we're going back to the drawing board here.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, something like, wrong here, which is not what you want to hear from your game design.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, we're restarting development basically from scratch, is what they said. So, like, there was, like, a lot of reasons to be kind of like, okay, what. What's going to be the deal here? I will say, I do think, and keep in mind this is not my final thoughts here. My final thoughts will be, like, the review and things like that. Because I've not beaten the game yet, and there's still things I need to test. I need to test the mouse mode and things like that. That. But as of right now, you know, 60, 70% in. I feel like this is definitely up there with the first one. As far as the best. Metroid Prime.

[Mary Kish]

Oh, my God. Dan.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I don't think right now, I'll say it's. I don't think it's better than one. I think one was just like, one has aged incredibly well. If you played the remastered one on Switch recently, it's like, it's still incredible. So it's like, you think about them doing that in 2002. I think that came out with all.

[Mary Kish]

The advancements in technology.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, it's like. But this does capture that spirit of the first one. They've changed some big things about the format as far as, like, there's an open world here. And I think when people hear that, I think people immediately go to, like, oh, Breath of the Wild and what they did with Zelda and making an open world.

[Mary Kish]

Well, also, because prime is also notorious for being like, you get a specific thing, you're meant to go to a specific place. What are you doing in an open world when you have a. A very specific item?

[Dan Reichert]

Well, I mean, there is that. There is that, like, Metroidvania elements where it's like, okay, so I went and did this, or I went to this area and, oh, I can't cross this bridge or this lava thing because I need to go back to this previous place, and I need to get this thing that gives me the. The suit that lets me, you know, be heat resistant and stuff like that. So I want to be careful when I say open world. It is not. This is not a Breath of the Wild type situation. I kind of thought at the beginning it might be more like that because, like. Like, I went to my map, and it's like, oh, you can set markers. You can, like, you know, say, like, oh, this is a missile expansion or an energy tank or something like that. It's. You can do that, but it's not this huge thing. It's more like Hyrule Field was in Ocarina of Time, where it's like. It is a kind of large open area with some things dotted throughout that you can do to kind of connect these larger, you know, like, Death Mountain and Kakariko Village and all that stuff. You know? Know, it's. You know what I thought of a lot, mary, is Gears 5, because remember how Gears 5 tried that stuff where there was, I think, Act 2 and 3.

[Mary Kish]

It's an open world, but it's like you were going to a very specific location most of the time.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Whatever those two acts were, where it's like, one of them was, like, ice and one of them was sand. And, like, specifically, I was thinking of the sand one because it's very much like that, where it's like, there is this large, open desert, and there are things kind of sprinkled throughout. You know how, like, in Gears, you know, you'd find, like, a little outpost. Like, I'm gonna shoot some things here, and I'm go get this. Just some cogs and like that. This is similar. Like, you'll take an elevator down into a shrine, you'll do a quick thing, you'll get, like, a missile expansion. Or something like that. But it is. I think this is going to be a polarizing thing because it is kind of an empty open world. It is. It's a desert, so it's. There's not a lot going on. Like, enemies will, like, you know, some flying enemies will show up. You know, there's shrines here. There's these, like, green crystals you can go around and collect, but ultimately the shrines.

[Mary Kish]

Sorry to interrupt. You just, like, just take an elevator.

[Dan Reichert]

Down, you take it out later.

[Mary Kish]

Shrine is. But why?

[Dan Reichert]

It's. It's like a shrine that's probably closer to Breath of the Wild, where, like, you go down into a thing, you solve a very quick puzzle, you get a thing, and you go back to the open world.

[Mary Kish]

You know what kind of thing?

[Dan Reichert]

A missile expansion or a thing that makes it. So if you charge your ice beam, you shoot three ice beams at a time. Something like that.

[Mary Kish]

Upgrade.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, but it's. It's not like Breath of Wild where there's like 120. There's like, I've run into like, five of them I can go to, you know, and I'm pretty far into the game. So it is. It's pretty empty. But it's cool in that, like, you've got the bike. Have you seen the bike from the trailers or anything? Viola? It's just Samus looks cool as hell. This bike is cool as hell. The way you summon it is you hit the plus button and like, you know how, like Elden Ring, you want to summon torrent and it's like right here. You know, it's not the whistle. Wait for the horse thing. It's like, oh, they're right under your ass, basically. So you hit the button. It just seamlessly does this great animation of you're going to. From first person to camera pans out. Samus does this giant backflip 20ft in the air, Motorcycle comes up underneath you, you land on it. Then you're. You're just taking off through the desert on your space bike. It's cool. Like, it just feels good to cruise around. It's, you know, hilly, and there's some jumps and there are some collectibles and stuff to get there, but ultimately you are just kind of going from point of interest to point of interest. But it, like, it feels really cool with this bike. So I think some people will probably complain about the. The emptiness or whatever, but honestly, it's. It didn't really bother me. And then once you get to these large areas, these like, this first area, Fury Green that you Go to or then Volt Forge. Like, it is kind of this like, you know, Ice Fire, you know, kind of the traditional type of thing. You see, you know, game is forever. But everything visually, the music, it is just the most Metroid shit you can imagine. There is a part where it's like, I went back and I did. I reloaded the save just so I could record this. Of when you first go into Fury Green. It's like the first kind of foresty area you're in and it shows the title card and just the font treatment's really cool and everything. And the music comes in and it's the most Metroid ass music. And it's so, so good. It sets that tone so, so well. And so those Metroid moments are really there now.

[Mary Kish]

The vibes are immaculate.

[Dan Reichert]

They are. But another thing I heard people were upset about was that there's. There are other characters now and some of them talk. And so. Mike, have you heard some of this?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I read the preview. So sorry, I stepped out. Apologies if I'm retreading stuff. I read previews and I know there was worry that they were having like an Atreus situation with helping you solve stuff early.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay, it's not so. That's the thing is, like, I fucking hate the Atreus Mimir Aloy thing where you walk into a room. It's like, no, I bet if I climb this and then if I jump down and then if I equip this thing and then break that rock wall, I'm going to get to the next. It's not that at all. Like, the first maybe hour of the game, there is a character you run into. This is the one that they talked about in the previews. His name is Miles McKenzie. He is an obnoxious character. He's like, I'm nerdy science guy or whatever. I'm here to help you out, Samus. And like, there are a couple parts where he's like, oh, you should do this. Go check this out, or whatever. He's just kind of really there in the first hour. And he is obnoxious in that. Like, it is weird in a game that's all about kind of like the vibes and the atmosphere and just the loneliness of space. You've got this guy who's saying things like win and booyah and like, you know, I know, I know.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's like spoken. Exactly.

[Dan Reichert]

And that is kryptonite to me. So if that was a guy that was saying that type of. And doing Mamir Aloy the whole game, I would be the first to be like, this sucks. But he's there for that first little. Like, maybe an hour is probably generous. He's kind of done after that. And then he's just like, a dude that is, like, when you go back to your, like, home base area to, like, upgrade your arm cannon or something, he's the guy you give a chip to, and he's like, God, now you can do ice. And then you leave and off and don't talk to him again. You know, it's like, you can call him as, like, a codec type. Like, you know, like, in Metal Gear, you can call the Colonel if you need to figure out what to do next, you can do that. You can go to the map and hit X and talk to him, but he's not, like, constantly in your ear. And more importantly, he is not telling you what to do. Like, that would fucking ruin a Metroid game for me if I walked in and he was like, hey, Samus, I think you need to power that up to open that door. Like, it's not that at all. And he's not the only character, but it's far from a constant thing in this game. So if anyone's worried about that based on the previews or whatever, like, I agree he's annoying and. But, like, he's not a big deal in this.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm so. I also really liked how Metroid prime and Echoes and Corruption to some extent emphasize Samus's skills as, like, a scientist. They lean into that here. I don't know much. Like, prime, you're very much, like, you're scanning stuff a lot. You're like, you're. You're. You're cataloging stuff. I love that aspect of it. That wasn't the main draw for me, but I liked how they embraced her as this, like, yeah, this explorer, this. Not. Not just, like, actually, like, documenting her exploration.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like, you know, Batman also had, like, the detective stuff. Not just beating people up, you know, Know. Yeah, they do that. And the scanning. I actually, before I write the review, I still need to, like, I want to go back to my reviews of, like, you know, three and things like that. Because I think this is the first time, like, the scanning, like, back. I remember it in all the old ones as, like, tiny orange squares, tiny red squares, and you're going around kind of scanning all that. This is just kind of. Visually, it's better where it's like, just big green things, like, the whole object. Like, if it's a statue will be fully green. So, you know, you go into that. It's like the psychic, you know, filter or whatever, and you can just see entire objects highlighted and things like that. So it's a lot easier to kind of go around and scan and not just have a bunch of little colored squares everywhere. So, yeah, that. Scanning aspects and going through logbooks and trying to find out, you know, what happened with this ancient civilization. These, like, Le Morne priests and like, you know, this ancient. It's. It's very Metroid. This, like, ancient, you know, race that, like, you know, you are the character of prophecy that's supposed to save them and all this stuff. It's very Metroid in that way. But you are going through all their logbooks and things like that and kind of deciphering what has happened with their history and how things came to be in the present. Yeah. And it's. It's the thing where it's like, okay, there's these five MacGuffins. There's these five things you need to get. As of right now, I've got three of them. There was a point after I got the first two where it was like, okay, well here's. You need to get three more and do it in any order. Like they say, do it in any order. And I remember, like, going to just a far off one. It like, seemed like they were suggesting like, hey, go to this one. I was like, no, I want to do the, you know, Breath of Wild thing. I'm going to go all the way over there. You know, the way Breath of the Wild kind of wanted you to go towards the water area first. It's like that I'm going to the Rito village or whatever. But they did kind of like gate me and we're like, oh, yeah, you can't cross this thing. You should probably still like, I do wonder. I. I do want to do some more research on this and see how open it actually is. Because it did seem like there is kind of an order to do here. So, like, I don't want people going into this thinking this is the breath of the Wild of Metroid. It is not. This is a Metroid game with the big desert in between, like, these much larger areas.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I don't think I'd want it to do that.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't either. I mean, I guess I didn't know if I wanted Zelda to do that. So I'm always open to be surprised. But I am happy with the way this is. You know, it's just like, brief, like These dungeons, you know, for lack of a better term, are big. And they do follow, like kind of that Zelda thing of like you're going through solving puzzles, unlocking doors, you're getting an item, you're fighting a boss with it, and then you're kind of back to the open world doing some other stuff before you go to the next area. So, yeah, I do feel like that desert is just kind of that again, Hyrule Fields from Ocarina, where you're just kind of like, yeah, I'm just. I'm walking across here to get to, you know, the lake or whatever. So do not think this is a breath of wild or anything like that. Other big changes and stuff. There's instead of just like missiles, there's like elemental shots. So it's not like, oh, you get the ice beam or you get the plasma beam, and then your standard shot is just that. That it is. You have your standard shot, which I think is just called the psychic beam. But then you can switch to missiles with the D pad, but you can also switch to, you know, I won't spoil every beam you get or whatever, but they use a separate. Separate type of ammo, basically, and it's very generous with that. I don't feel like I have to be sparing with it. You know, I'm just constantly getting. You get elemental ammo, and you can use that for whatever of these elements you've unlocked. Unlocked, basically.

[Mary Kish]

That makes sense.

[Dan Reichert]

Standard shots, missiles. And then you've got the elemental shots. And the elemental shots are critical to, like, opening certain doors, doing certain things. As you would expect.

[Mary Kish]

The game also, like, boasted in the advertising. I feel like this isn't a spoiler because it's in the ads for it. It's like some kind of psychic abilities or something like that. Is that elemental or is that something else?

[Mike Mahardy]

That's different.

[Dan Reichert]

The elemental is just kind of like your. Your shots, like from your lightning cannon.

[Mary Kish]

Your. Basically whatever. Okay. Yeah. So what's up with the psychic stuff?

[Dan Reichert]

The psychic stuff is like, early on, you get this, like, crystal and it's in Samus's helmet and you can it, like when you go to scan, it's basically like this psychic filter now. So. And you can use that to like, you get a psychic lasso, so you can like, pull certain things. And some of the stuff, they just add the word psychic to an ability that's already been in Metroid. So, like, I just got this boost ball, which has been in every Metroid prime, basically. But now it's the psychic boost ball or whatever, you know. So it's like, oh, and there's like a purple contra. Like everything's just kind of purple if it's psychic, you know. So ultimately it's like you can use it to like certain locks and things like that. You can move, like kind of telekinesis, move things with your psychic abilities. It's. To me, it's more of a branding thing than anything. It's just like things that have kind of already been around in Metroid prime are just now purple and they call it psychic, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's some cool things where it's like, you'll find a psychic. It's like this boost ball cannon thing and you're basically riding this like psychic wave instead of like a physical boost ball track or something like that. But I don't know. It's functionally, I think that's very similar to the other stuff. And then the moving stuff around is kind of like. It almost feels like the motion stuff from Metroid Prime 3 on Wii. It's. It's not a game changer or anything. And it's also not obnoxious. And I will say the motion stuff, I'm playing with the Switch 2 Pro controller and that has been really good. Like, I went into the options and you can very much get in there and be like, I want this to be motion controlled. I don't want this to be motion controlled. I want this. The aiming to be motion control, but I want there to be a threshold where it's like I have to move the controller a certain amount before my, you know, lock on will kind of like let me target other limbs and things like that. So I've really tweaked that a lot. And I do think turning motion control on for most things in. In this game is the way to go. I want to try the mouse mode because I tried it at the preview event in New York City and it was really great for certain boss fights and stuff. So want to try. But like, I just don't know. Like, I'm sitting on a couch playing on a big tv. I don't know. Like, I know they said they want the mouse to be like, oh, you can put it on your thigh or whatever. I just rather play with my controller. That seems to be doing a great job here. So remains to be seen on that. But ultimately it's like all of the Metroid stuff is there in. And it's great. Like, all the stuff you come to Metroid prime for specifically is Kind of top notch right now. And I really do think I like this more than two and three. Two just got. It's. It's focused. It's focused in a way that 2 and 3 weren't. I think 2 was going a little too hard on these kind of, like, light world, dark world gimmicks that I didn't love. Three went a little too hard on the motion stuff. This does seem like a bit of a return to form. Even though they've kind of added things, like the more open area in certain elements, it feels more like the first one than two or three, I would say.

[Mike Mahardy]

I was gonna say I liked Corruption. Corruption was definitely my second favorite one. But, like. And I like that Echoes was attempting that light, dark world stuff as, like, its overall defining mechanic. I was gonna ask, is that Metroid Prime Fours, is it that it's semi open, more open this time around? That's like, it's defining conceit, you'd say.

[Dan Reichert]

That's a good question. Because, like, I think the stuff that I'm liking the most is that it does remind me more of the first game. And, like, I do like the open world stuff, but I don't think it's that huge of a part of the experience. I mean, all the stuff I'm loving is the stuff of just going through these worlds and exploring and upgrading and things. It's like very Metroid prime one, I would say. And then, if anything, the open world is just kind of like a fun thing to do in between that. So, yeah, I don't think there's a huge gimmick here. I like. And even adding characters that speak and dialogue and stuff like that. They haven't gone full other M or made this like a weird. Like, we're gonna give Samus a big story. It's like, no, they don't go too hard on that does seem like they're just trying to kind of go back to basics in a way. In a way I appreciate. And something I think is really cool is it looks the way, like, Samus and just these environments and everything have always in the prime series have looked so sleek and so cool. And the design is just incredible. And I feel, playing this, that it looks the way I Remember Metroid Prime 1 looking in the same way that, like, when you play a really good, like, HD remaster or remake, like when you play Wind Waker hd, it's like, oh, yeah, this is how I remember it looking. But then you actually go back and you play the original one, you're like, oh, this actually looks way, way better. I think this is a similar thing where it's, like, it is obviously head and shoulders above it, but, like, it is. It is evoking that same feel. It is looking the way you remember it looked when you were being blown away by the first metroid prime in 02.

[Mike Mahardy]

You know, that's super promising, especially having played Metroid prime last year on the switch. The. Was it last year? Two years ago, the remaster two years ago?

[Dan Reichert]

I think one or two years ago, something like that.

[Mike Mahardy]

Either way, replaying that, I was like, oh, man, now I really can't wait for four. So I'm definitely going to try to play it at least a few hours in the next couple days before game of the year stuff starts.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, we will have to decide if it's eligible. I mean, because, like, I mean, it is. It will definitely be on my top 10 for sure. But we have to decide, like, if it's just not reasonable for people to, you know, play through enough of it this year, we might have to push it to next year.

[Mary Kish]

But it's just such a difficult time to release a game like that. And unfortunately, especially when it comes to, like, our goatee, it's meant to be a love letter to all of our tastes, and so that makes it really difficult. But this is such an obvious game for us to play, so, Yeah, I think everyone should. Yeah, but I'm gonna play it. I just don't know if I'm gonna play enough of it for us to talk about it. That's what's hard.

[Dan Reichert]

If we got to push it to next year, we push it next year. But I mean, the important thing is, I think everyone's gonna like this a lot. It is. It is a tremendous game.

[Mike Mahardy]

Dumb question. Is it compatible with the first switch?

[Dan Reichert]

Yes, it is. Oh, cool. Okay. I have not tried.

[Mike Mahardy]

So it's not like Bonanza in that regard, then.

[Dan Reichert]

No, no, it's. It is because they announced it as a switch. One game, and then.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, that's true. It's been in development for a while now.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh. Going back to Mary, you asked about the psychic abilities. A one new one that I like a lot is there's a psychic charge shot you can do. So if you charge your cannon and you shoot it while you're in the psychic mode, it does the God nearby Heavenly sword.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

You know how you, like, shoot an arrow and you could, like, after touch the arrow and stuff like that. So, like, jumper bending the bullets, you could.

[Mary Kish]

Oh, that masterpiece.

[Dan Reichert]

Of course, everyone knows Jumper. Never seen it. No.

[Mike Mahardy]

Wanted is when they curve the bullets.

[Dan Reichert]

No, I think Jumper is the bending the bullets one.

[Mary Kish]

I think I gotta look it up.

[Dan Reichert]

Because in my notes it's Jumper, and I haven't written the review yet.

[Mike Mahardy]

Jumper is the one with Hayden Christensen and I think Samuel L. Jackson, where they can literally just warp around the world. Wanted is James McAvoy with the bending the bullets.

[Dan Reichert]

Which movie can they bend? So I told you, it's Wanted.

[Mary Kish]

Mike is right.

[Dan Reichert]

I gotta change my notes.

[Mary Kish]

It's Angelina Jolie.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah. Okay. They've got a. She's got a scene.

[Dan Reichert]

It's burning. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah, it is.

[Mary Kish]

It's. He's. Mike is right. It's.

[Dan Reichert]

It's.

[Mary Kish]

Angelina Jolie. Bends the bullets by moving the gun really fast from right to left.

[Dan Reichert]

Yes. Well, I am changing my notes right now to Wanted instead of we saved.

[Mary Kish]

You from permanent embarrassment.

[Dan Reichert]

No, that's always. That's why we.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes, but that ability sounds cool.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. And then it's like you have a lot of control over it. It's not just like after touch. So it's like there will be a certain panel that you need to hit and so you charge or. Oh, a great example was there was like a mini boss, and he had these three kind of like energy orbs around him in a triangle. And you could only kind of take a shield down if you hit all of them pretty much simultaneously. So, of course, you start and it's just like, okay, well, I'm trying to shoot them all, but he's recharging real quick. But then you realize, oh, right. When I do the psychic charge shot, it kind of pauses time for a little bit or like, super slows it down. So you're able to, like, guide this one energy shot and steer it. And you can do that with the gyro controls, too. And you're just steering it around to hit all of these orbs and then it brings down the thing and then you can just unload missiles and stuff into it. Like, lots of great mini bosses and really clever stuff like that. Like, the bosses specifically have been a blast in this one.

[Mike Mahardy]

Nice. Yeah, I'll explain that for sure.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, as soon as I've been playing it all day. As soon as we're done with this stuff, I'm going right back and playing it all night, so. Love it.

[Mike Mahardy]

I've got a question for all you fire escape listeners out there. Are you really going to miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of the year? These are Cyber Monday prices we're talking about. So it's not just another sale. I took a look, and this is some pretty big bang for your buck. It's Alienware, with some of the most advanced engineering out there with systems at the top of many reviewers lists.

[Mary Kish]

And what about a gift for yourself? You can gift yourself the new Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop. I mean, this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with Intel Core Ultra processors. And even better, you can get it during Cyber Monday. Plus, you can save on all kinds of displays and accessories like the Alienware 32 4K QD OLED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity. These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance. So visit alienware.com deals soon and grab what you can before the lowest prices of the year go dark.

[Mike Mahardy]

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Dan Reichert]

Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.

[Mike Mahardy]

Ugh. Stressing me out. Why are the people I love so hard to shop?

[Dan Reichert]

Probably because they only make boring gift.

[Mike Mahardy]

Guides that are totally uninspired.

[Dan Reichert]

Except for the guide we made in.

[Mike Mahardy]

Partnership with Marshall's, where premium gifts meet incredible value. It's giving gifts with categories like Best Gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto, or Best Gifts for Me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have. Check out the guide on marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at Marshall.

[Dan Reichert]

Do you know what happens when you replace your regular old electric water heater with a new electric heat pump water heater? You boost your savings a lot. In fact, Energy Star estimates that a family of four will save an average of $550 a year on their electric energy bills. And your new heat pump water heater can pay for itself in as little as three years. Level up with a heat pump water heater. Go to levelupmywaterheater.com to learn more.

[Mike Mahardy]

Also, switch to Speaking of, Mary, before I move on to you, you've been playing Kirby Air Riders.

[Dan Reichert]

Dan oh my God.

[Mike Mahardy]

Is that a game?

[Dan Reichert]

Mary? Oh, I thought you were queuing up. Mary. You're queuing me up.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, I was queuing you up. Mary didn't play it. We're talking Switch. Yeah, like a few hours of it on GameCube, right?

[Dan Reichert]

What are your thoughts of the original one on GameCube? Because I didn't play it much.

[Mike Mahardy]

I compared it to Super Monkey Ball. Like, similar. Like, I think they were kind of going for. And I might just be. Actually, now that I think about it, I might be confusing it with Super Monkey Ball, but I remember it being like high velocity kind of 3D platforming, course navigation.

[Dan Reichert]

It's really platforming. It's. It's. It's a racing game, but there's no acceleration button. It's just the first. It was a one button game the first time.

[Mary Kish]

People say it was like the Smash Bros. Of racing.

[Dan Reichert]

That's what it is. It's the Smash Brothers guy. Like the guy who made Smash Brothers made this. And it's like, like so obvious playing it because it's just filled. Like. It kind of makes sense in Smash Brothers where it's like, yeah, it's every Nintendo character ever and everything from every game. And this one, it's just insanity. Like, I re. This is the game that made me realize that there's a limit to me liking that specific Nintendo brand of, you know, like Mario Party and all that stuff. I love it. Just feed it to me, you know, put it in my veins. This one, it's just like. This is just chaos in a way that I don't know if I like.

[Mike Mahardy]

It finally went too far. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

It's just a bunch of shit happening on the screen. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

Mike loves to say, but I kind of like it.

[Dan Reichert]

Like, you're all like, expected in ways where it's like, you'll go to the main menu, it's like, wait, what is this gummies section? And it's like, oh, I guess I unlocked a bunch of gummy candy in the shape of all the machines and stuff. And I guess I can, like, zoom in on all the gummy candy. Like, why is this a mode? What is this? And then it's. Every time you finish a race, you're unlocking 8,8000 things. Like in Smash Brothers, all the stickers and decals and new character and all that, it's like the same announcer and, you know, just the menu style and everything is so fucking Smash Brothers. But I don't know if it's just because, like, I don't know, people are used to like, the Mario Kart style of like, Yep, here's the acceleration and you roll over.

[Mary Kish]

Why not just play Mario Kart, I guess is my question.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, I will. That's what I'm going to do as.

[Mike Mahardy]

An alternative to this.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I kind of appreciate the variety that they have here because, like, there's weird modes, like the city trial thing, where it's like five minutes and a city is Just exploding and there's giants and meteors and all you're doing is just going around eating jpegs of food and getting these stat boosts and stuff like that. And then it goes to a like randomized mini game afterwards where it's like gobble up the most stuff or yeah, you know, here's a melee fight with everyone or a boss fight. Like, there's just like weird, weird variety that I appreciate, but also it just seems like there's no clear through line between any of this. It's like, I don't know if it feels great as a racing game and some of these mini games are okay, but it all just feels like to what end? Like, what are we doing here with this game?

[Mary Kish]

You know, visually it's crack. Like it's so hard to, to parse because there's a lot of particle effects. There's a lot of different ways you can impact the players around you. I think there's even like NPCs in the space. There's just like a lot visually going along on. And I think for the youths, it's really possible that this is something that's going to like, really appeal to a younger generation that like needs a lot of action, action, action to keep their attention, attention, attention. But to me, I feel kind of overwhelmed watching it.

[Dan Reichert]

I do too. And I feel like I would have felt it even back then when I was younger. Like I, I had Bonk play it just because like, like, this is like the opposite of a bonk game. Like, this is just. She has no tolerance for like, just Nintendo insanity. And I had her play like for a few minutes with me and she's like, this is like the video game equivalent of just like putting your forearm against the keyboard and just like rubbing it back and forth. A bunch of happening here. Like, yeah, I, I don't know if I'll play much more of this. I like there's a lot of unlockables and variety and stuff. I'm kind of intrigued by the, the single player stories story mode, but it's just kind of a lot of nonsense. Maybe in the bad way.

[Mike Mahardy]

All right, well, I'm more likely to Play Metroid Primes 4 if I had to choose.

[Dan Reichert]

That's a better. I will say that is a better game. Yes.

[Mike Mahardy]

All right. Mary, you played something called Goodnight Universe.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, this is really cool. And I don't know if you guys have heard of this game, but I'm really excited to talk about it. This is made by the same people who made before your Eyes, which was an eye tracking game where you start as a baby and every time you blink, you go possibly five seconds, possibly five years into the future of your life. And so the game is in a way, indirectly trying to train you. Be careful of blinking too fast because your life is going to flash before your eyes. And so it's a very thought provoking game. Goodnight Universe is their second game. Similarly, you do start as a baby, but you remain a baby throughout the. The entire period of this game. This isn't about flashing forward through time. This also tracks your eyes and it tracks your emotions, which I thought was really cute. So if you laugh in the game as a baby, you laugh. If you cry, your baby cries, which is kind of cute. So, yeah, it has, it has like a track, a camera track on it. So anytime I was like, my baby would cry and the mom would be like, it's okay, honey. It would like, take care of me. I thought that was a cute little gimmick.

[Dan Reichert]

What if you, like smoke a cigarette?

[Mary Kish]

It only does happiness and sadness. It doesn't do smoking, which you cannot do as a baby.

[Dan Reichert]

I would try to break it.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, yeah. It doesn't allow you to like inject heroin? No, it's not that type of game. It's more like simple, but it also tracks your face. Stop trying to jack off.

[Dan Reichert]

For the audio listener, Mike Maharti was doing the jack off motion.

[Mary Kish]

It's a baby.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I, I got started young, but.

[Mary Kish]

It track, it tracks your head, which is important mechanically to something that happens. So I'm gonna try to not go too far in this story because it goes a lot deeper than before your eyes. This game story progresses dramatically. And I actually really like that about this game. So at the very beginning, what I will say is, is you are a baby. And it starts literally from like you coming out into the world and learning very early that you are cognitively basically an adult. You understand people, you could react to them. But your baby actions are very limited. And so your parents will be saying, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? A firefighter? And you're like, no, I want to like be a doctor. Like, I want to do all these other things.

[Dan Reichert]

The baby saying this?

[Mary Kish]

No, all your baby can say is like, goo goo Gaga. And so you're very limited with what you can output into the world. But cognitively you are very smart. And so that how you.

[Dan Reichert]

You as the player or the baby character is smart?

[Mike Mahardy]

Both.

[Mary Kish]

I mean, like, you are also smart, Dan.

[Dan Reichert]

So are you like a baby that Was like cognitively, were you like a smart adult that got turned into a baby?

[Mike Mahardy]

Like, yes.

[Dan Reichert]

How do they. Like, yes. That's what happens.

[Mary Kish]

I mean, you'll have to play the game to really understand how you got there. But the concept of this game is that you are obviously way too smart to be in a baby's body. Like, what's going on? Something is wrong. Right. Essentially that you are so smart that you are self. Aware. You're not supposed to be self aware until like you're like six or seven and all of a sudden you realize that you're self conscious. Yeah. Somewhere when your frontal lobe develops around 24. Until then you're just, you're just a meatbag in this game. You are thoughtful and aware and functioning. You are aware that you love your parents. You know that your sister is, is smart, but like, she's like an angsty teen. Right. And so she's going through all these problems and then you also start to develop these skill sets so moderately through the game. So I'm not going to go too far because again, we're going to get into spoiler territory, but I will, I will, like, acknowledge moderately through the game. You start to develop some type of powers that will impact the world and the people around you. And I think that's really when the game starts to take off. You do shit your pants in this game.

[Mike Mahardy]

Nice.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah. This is expected. There are like ex. There are like standard things that I think babies do that you do in this game, like poop yourself. But then all of a sudden you'll realize that if you concentrate hard enough, sometimes you can hear people's thoughts. And so this is where the face tracking comes in. Because the game will ask you to close your eyes and the game tracks your eyes so it knows when you close your eyes and then you'll turn your head. And turning your head is like a radio dial. So as I turn my head to the left, you'll hear like different waveforms and different sounds. And as you turn your head to the right, you'll turn to the exact frequency of your sister's thoughts and you'll hear what she's thinking at any given time. And it's actually quite well written and cheeky. There'll be these like, situations where your parents are fighting and you'll turn your head to like hear what your dad is thinking through this fight. And it's, it's like really, it's, it's funny and interesting. I think the dialogue is quite brilliant. It gets really good, especially towards the end where you're like, I cannot believe it has gotten this far in the story. Like, I didn't know that it was gonna take this turn. So I encourage you not to dive too far into videos because I don't want you to spoil yourself. But I loved it. I loved this journey of being a baby that's, like, too smart for its own good. And figuring out how I'm gonna, like, tell my. I'm trying to tell my family that I'm really smart. I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying to protect my sister because she has a boy over and I don't like him. And it's like, how do you. How do you, like, scare this guy as a smart baby, but you're not fully in control of your body yet? It's really. It's really cool.

[Dan Reichert]

Do you get prompts, like, when you're closing your eyes and turning your head? Is there, like a, like, tuning in kind of audio or something?

[Mary Kish]

There's like an think about, think about, like, turning a knob on an actual radio.

[Dan Reichert]

Sure.

[Mary Kish]

And then all of a sudden you hear, like, your sister's voice. That's kind of what it does. Same thing for being able to. Maybe you're not in the room, but you want to know what your mom's up to. You can start to do stuff like that too, where you'll, like, close your eyes and as long as you're looking in the right direction, all of a sudden, like, something will happen and you'll see what your mom is up to. Or maybe you can, like, move stuff. Like, it gets pretty cool as you progress.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I think it's cool that they're, like you said. This is the same developer as the behind your eyes game.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah. Before your eyes. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Like, I think that's a cool gimmick of, like. I've always liked the idea of, like, incorporating, like, you know, like, Baktai had a solar panel on it and you had to go outside to charge your gun. Like, I like any outside the box type stuff where it's like game mechanics, utilizing, like a camera or something like this. And that sounds really cool to me.

[Mary Kish]

It's underappreciated, in my opinion. I don't think a lot of people are talking about it, but I was. I was. So I really enjoyed the ride. And I think this game was about four to five hours. This is not a long experience. So this is an evening for you to enjoy a beautiful story of a family that loves a baby that's too smart and you, as the baby, get to decide the fate of this family and your journey. You get to learn a lot about the dynamics of what a loving parent relationship is like, especially when they're under an extraordinary amount of pressure from external forces. A lot of good family dynamics. It takes some interesting turns. I didn't love all of the different. What I'm going to say, like, they took risks as game designers. I could tell. They said, ooh, we're going to try and do this and see if it works. And I didn't love all of them, but I do love risky design. I love that these guys tried something very different than before your eyes. They like pushed it to the limit on this one. Some of it works, some of it doesn't. I still think this is an excellent game and I would love more people to have this experience, especially for a four hour game like, give. Give this a try.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm surprised it only has like 470 Steam reviews, considering how much press before your eyes got.

[Mary Kish]

I agree. And I guess I didn't hear about.

[Mike Mahardy]

It before it came out.

[Mary Kish]

It does more than before your eyes did. Like, quite frankly, I mean, it just does. I think it just does so much more with the idea of like, what can you do with eye tracking and face tracking? Because it knows where I'm looking and it knows when I'm happier. Side, I will say some of it is more gimmicky than others, right? Like, the fact that I can like make my baby cry is funny. Is it dramatically, like, alter my gameplay experience?

[Dan Reichert]

No.

[Mary Kish]

Like you, you could have just hit, you know, C for cry and instead I go like, I go like this. But I think it's funny that a couple times my mom is asking me like, do you like it? And I instinctively, because a mom is asking me, I go, yeah, I like it. And my baby laughs.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, you said your actual mom is there right now. Are you talking about the game mom or real mom?

[Mary Kish]

My real mom.

[Mike Mahardy]

She's asking about this game.

[Mary Kish]

My video game mom is like interacting with me as a baby and it makes me laugh. And so when I laugh, my baby laughs. And I thought that was kind of funny because I wasn't just. It wasn't just a controller of me saying I like it. I actually, it actually captured my genuine smile in a situation and then reflected that into the characters and then they reacted to my genuine smile. So I think that's neat. I don't think that's like really the core mechanic of it. I would say the, the highlights of this game is That I think it's really well written. I think it. The dialogue is. Is quite smart. The performances of all of the characters. The do the sister, the mother and the father are very good. And they. They nailed what parents under extreme pressure and duress behave like. I think it's. It's well written and executed. Yeah. It's just a good little story, guys like. Yeah, it's great.

[Mike Mahardy]

That is. Goodnight Universe by developer Nice Dream I played Mary. You talked more about Bollocks Pit last episode and Dan, you had said you hadn't planned it beforehand. I had been deciding which game to jump into prior to last episode. Then you talking about Bollocks Pit convinced me to try that. Oh my God. I like that game a whole lot.

[Mary Kish]

What do you love about it? I'm excited to talk to you about this because I was kind of. Not that I don't like it, but I liked it. But it's just like it got a little repetitive, but there are parts of it that I think are so addictive.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. I don't want to just spend the whole time comparing it to Vampire Survivors, but obviously Vampire Survivors is the one that popularized this genre, even though it wasn't the first like quote unquote auto shooter or whatever you want to call them. But I think this game's overall progression clicks a lot better for me than Vampire Survivors. Vampire Survivors wasn't really going for that in the sense that if you beat like this mission, this map with Vampire Survivors, you'll unlock the next map. Or if you find this coffin, you'll unlock this character. It was very old school in a sense. It wasn't completely pushing you in specific directions. Whereas this is very much like, all right, you have to beat the current map with any number of characters in order to get a cog which is then going to upgrade the lift that you're basically your village is built on that you're taking down into the pit, at which point you are then building out this roster of characters which, you know. Vampire Survivors was very much about unlocking characters. Deep Rock Galactic Survivors was also about unlocking the new. That was more class based than specific characters. But. But I like the character design here a lot. That's definitely kind of the fuel Mary, way more. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

They're pushing you to try different characters.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. And then there's stuff I don't even want to mention that were like gameplay spoilers for me that I had no idea you would be able to do like synergy wise later on or ability wise that kind of blow open the game. I don't always love the town building aspect. I mean, there was parts where I was like. Like at a certain point you really don't need to design your town in the most clever way. I basically will just like build mines and wheat fields and forests around certain buildings. And then I clump all my character buildings around the veteran's hut because that increases their XP gain. Other than that, the buildings that I'm upgrading and the new buildings I'm building that I need to construct by bouncing my characters off of a la brick. Similar to the actual in game gameplay. In this game, it's very much about like angles of bouncing balls or characters around. I just put the buildings I needed to construct down at the very bottom and then just machine gun bounce them.

[Dan Reichert]

But I appreciate there's more strategy needed in, in that point. Like, I never really felt like it got to a point where it's like, oh, I have to do this very in depth thing. It's like, nah, it's all pretty basic, you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. It's funny, it reminded me of Cult of the Lamb that had this one action packed facet to it, which is the dungeon delving, dungeon crawling. And then it had the Cult building and Town building back outside. Ironically, they're both Devolver. But now Ball X Pit. Though the actual gameplay of the auto shooting I like a lot and there's recency bias at play, but I do right now consider it to be more satisfying to play than Vampire Survivors. I think Vampire Survivors, there's more. There's more room for you to. For skill to come into play. It's not the most demanding game, but there are certain moments where it's like you can really start turning the tide against these encroaching gargoyles by angling the ball a bit better and really getting into those pockets where it can bounce around in between them for a while. So there's a bit more agency in that regard. But there are certain characters I unlocked and that I didn't really recognize how powerful they could be. And I think I mentioned that when we talked about Balatro, I mentioned that when we talk about Hades too. Like, I think that's my mark of a good roguelite is you can unlock a character or a weapon or something and it just seems useless at the time. But then the more you get to know the game and the more you see through the matrix, the more you realize they're actually allowing you to break the game.

[Dan Reichert]

Sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

And you really can kind of break this game if you com. If you combine the right abilities and whatnot and like, upgrade a character the right way.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Did you play much Megabunk?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes, I like Mega Megabunk was very much like, to me, the embodiment of like, here, go break our game if you want to right away.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah. Because the things you're describing, like, made me think of Megabunk.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah. Like, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Come up during Game of the Year, I'm sure. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Megabunk's also great, but yeah, no, I liked Bollocks pits. I think overall, the thing that Bollocks Pit nails for me more than Megabunk or Vampire Survivors or Deep Rock Galactic Survivors is I think the general roguelite progression works a bit better for me where it's like, I always felt like I accomplished something. Vampire survivors in your first, like 10 hours is very good about that as well. But then I think you. I at least hit a few walls in Vampire Survivors where I'm like, oh, man, I. I definitely need to Google something. There's some like, NES era secret stuff I need to do to unlock these last few, but this one, it's like, okay, well, I upgraded my statue that I built after I beat the first map because I beat that map with a character so I get, you know, better AoE damage or whatever it is. Or I beat Snowy Shores again with this character. And then I also ranked up that character specifically. And then I can rank up the building that increases your strength scaling. So it's very like catnip carrot on a string between almost every match. I don't know that I ever lost or completed a match. Went back to the town and didn't have something unlocked.

[Dan Reichert]

Sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

But yeah, I like that game a lot. I played. I. I have three characters I didn't unlock. I'm not sure if they're going to require. And I've unlocked a. I've collected a bunch of blueprints recently that were not character building. So I'm not sure if there's some sort of secret thing unlocking it or if I just really need to keep playing more, but I think I will. I'm going to try to unlock them all. I'll consider that 100%.

[Dan Reichert]

Once I do, that's what I'm going to go back to. I think once, like all these kind of like big games with like defined endings, I'm done with for the year. I definitely want to go back to it because I enjoyed Every Second Planet.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. The last thing I'll say about it is I mentioned there's. There's Certain, like, gameplay spoilers I don't even want to touch on because I think this game is very good about putting a twist on the gameplay in a way I. That was not advertised and I. People didn't even tell me about. I was like, oh, my God. This completely changes how I think about the game now and how I think about ability synergies now. I think about upgrading this specific character. So that. That's. That's probably also, like, that's a huge thing for this game. That might be my favorite thing about it. It's very good at constantly challenging your assumptions. There's a lot more mileage on this game than I initially thought after unlocking, like, the first three, four characters. I like it a lot.

[Mary Kish]

I'm glad you played it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, no, it's great. Mary, I want to ask you about Arc Raiders, but I'm sure all of us will talk about that first. What is Moonlighter 2?

[Mary Kish]

Moonlighter 2 is the sequel to Moonlighter 1. For anyone who doesn't know Moonlighter, Moonlighter was a kind of like a. It almost looked like a pixel arty indie game that was half roguelite, half. What do you do it where you, like, make a shop and you sell.

[Mike Mahardy]

Stuff sim, like, like managed, like, management.

[Mary Kish]

Sim, maybe market sim?

[Dan Reichert]

Sure.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah. And it was kind of like the first that I ever played that did that really in an interesting way, where it was like, go into the dungeon and get all these cool little things and go into a shop and sell it. And it's a cool concept. Right. So Moonlighter 2 builds on that a lot. Now, Moonlighter 2 launches. Looks very different. Moonlighter 2, they went for a. I don't love it, but, like, I. I understand why they needed to do it, which is like this, like, type of 3D art style is a lot easier to probably work with.

[Mike Mahardy]

And.

[Mary Kish]

Visually, I just think they're probably able to scale a lot more with this type of art style. Nevertheless, it is the same concept where you are going into a dungeon. The dungeon is also even more rogue light than the first one. Where you're like, you get to choose out of three destinations where you're going, like, Hades too, right? Like, so you'll be like, do you want to get a chest? Do you want to get something that upgrades your character for that run? Do you want to get. You know, so you get to choose the location that you're going to. You have to kill all the enemies. At the end of killing all the enemies, you get an item. The item goes into your storage. The storage Is also a mini game, which I find I like. So maybe some items that are in your storage will upgrade everything in the row or everything in the column. Or maybe it burns the thing to its right, but it eats it and like improves it and makes it more valuable. So you're. Every time you. As you progress through this dungeon, you will get too many items. They won't fit into your satchel anymore. And so you have to choose which ones you want. Or maybe you burn some of them to upgrade your most favorite pieces. Then when you get home, you take them and put them into your shop and there's an entire secondary mechanic of like pricing them appropriately. If you price them too high, people tell you go yourself. If you price them too low, you're basically losing precious money. So putting them into your shop, pricing them, making sure your shop is clean and looks good and everybody wants to pay you lots of money. And then you use that money to upgrade your person. So getting more health upgrades, you know, getting more potions, health potions and things like that, Upgrading your weapons and eventually armor is kind of the loop. So it's like, go get relics, sell relics. Use relic money to make yourself more badass. Go in and do it again. That's the mechanic. I think the loop is sick. I think the concept of it is really good sometimes. I think the combat leaves a little bit to be desired. I'm essentially hitting X a lot in this game and you have a combo if you hit X enough. And so there's a more of a heavy move that you can use. And my favorite is to use like a distance move essentially. You get to like shoot at enemies from a distance. You can upgrade all of these in your roguelike build. So as you progress, sometimes they'll be like, hey, we're gonna let you do critical hit chance 20 more likely. Okay, that's sick. But it's only for that life. After that, you lose all those abilities, but you get to keep your relics and take them home and sell them. And then all the things you buy with your relic money is permanent upgrade.

[Dan Reichert]

It's kind of reminded me of what you're describing of like second time it's come up. But Cult of the Lamb, where you know, they had the. The two modes to it where it's like the in between. But then I remember like liking Cult of the Lamb a lot. But it was the part where I went out into the combat and I was like, this is pretty basic here.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Combat wise, now that I'm looking at.

[Mike Mahardy]

I was like, I did play Moonlighter 1. Mary I think you talked about it a couple years ago and I liked, I loved the overall loop. It was the moment to moment. I was like, oh man. It's not hooking me on a purely like kinetic sense, but I did like all the interlocking systems, if not the minute mechanics to it.

[Mary Kish]

I think this is like exactly how I feel and I think this is like really valid responses to it, which is just like this idea is awesome. It's such a cool idea to go into a dungeon, get artifacts, sell them and then use it to like upgrade my character. Love all this stuff, the dungeon day to day. I'm like, I've already beat these enemies 4,000 times. I know how they work. I know this system system works. I don't, I don't get like, I don't get my jollies off by like killing the same guys again and again and again. But I do like testing different upgrades that you can get in the system that makes it more interesting. There's a lot more variation now where they'll be like, okay, in this one you have blight or you have like, you, you, you have like some kind of curse effect on your, on your heavy attack. So I use my heavy attack more because of that. That or like I was saying earlier, like maybe you do one where you get like a more extreme crit chance. I think there's. They're, they're obviously trying to make the combat more interesting and I do think they put more energy into that in this game. It's just that with Cult of the Lamb, if you're going to compare to that, Cult of the Lamb had like so much personality. You knew exactly what it was because it was so distinct. Like you had your cult members like eat and stuff like that. This still is like looking to find its core identity, I think. I don't know if it has that same very clear identity grab, but I think for people who are looking for an addictive loop, this has it. It has an addictive, very easy to follow loop. If you're like, I just want to play a game and I want a very clear understanding of what I'm meant to do. I could explain this to you in five minutes and you can go out there and go into the dungeon and even if you die, you get to like scrape together a couple of your relics. You can also leave the dungeon at any time, which I think is kind of cool. Like you don't have to complete the dungeon to be successful. You can be like, I'm Audi, like.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't want to do keep all your stuff. There's no penalty.

[Mary Kish]

But yeah, it's fine. The, the value. It's like a risk of rain situation where like you kind of want to keep going because obviously there's better loot the further you go. Also, as you get loot, you get to sacrifice some of your loot to other loot. That makes it stronger. So you're getting better artifacts if you stick. Also the enemies get more interesting. There's a boss fight halfway through and there's a big boss fight at the end and both of those drop like better items, better artifacts for you to sell. So it's intriguing to stick around. But ultimately if you're just like a little bit of a baby, you can do a couple, take them home and sell them and live to fight another day. And that's cool too.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I was going to say anytime I see like item inventory management, I think of Dredge now, which I love. Dredge is another game where I had those two layers of the inventory management and the actual fishing, which those two were pretty very closely intertwined, but such a good game. Yeah, I love. Those are some of my favorite games these days that do that really well when they combine those two things. And yeah, I might try Moonlighter two because I did like the first one for its part.

[Mary Kish]

Dread you guys are like comparing it to games that just like have personality for days. Like Colton the Lamb and Dredge. Are these like, like super iconic when you describe them. People know exactly where you are and what you're talking about, right? Like, like evil death fish, like coming at you and like, you know, a cult situation where people are eating their own poop and you're sacrificing them. This one, like, I don't know if it's as easy to describe the world building for this one. There is a story, but I don't know if it grabs me in the same way as those other games. I think the hook of this game that is valuable is it simplistic loop that is addictive to get a couple artifacts and sell them in a shop. I will say that like often when I am getting cool shit in a game. I love the role playing of being like, oh man, I would love to like sell this in a little. At a little place and like have people come and look at my wares and buy them. It's fun to open a shop and clean it up. If you look at any screenshots from it, like I have a little Roomba that. That keeps My shop tidy and replaces my items. For me, I have just like little characters at play that I think makes my shop really fun to keep up. So I can tell what they're doing and how they've built upon the first game. And I really appreciate how they've grown. This. I think it still needs a little bit more in the sense of like what makes this so distinct that it's so obvious when you're describing it to someone that you're like, what a unique world building system. And I don't know if it's honed in on that yet, but I do love the loot. I think this is a brilliant concept of running into a dungeon, getting stuff and selling it at my little shop. I love that. I'll never get sick of that.

[Mike Mahardy]

That is Moonlighter 2. Dan, you played a game called and Roger.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, very briefly here because I don't want to spoil anything. It's kind of hard to talk about spoiling. So if you, if you're curious about this, maybe skip like two or three minutes ahead. But this is another like, you know, I talked about Consume Me recently. I guess you could categorize it as like an empathy game. This one you can play through in like 45 minutes, maybe an hour. Indie game, beautiful animation, incredible animation. And I don't want to say too much because kind of going through the story and is. Is a huge part of this. And again, it's a very small time commitment. If you're even remotely curious, I will just say I very much related to it. As if you have ever dealt with a family member or you know, I guess more often, you know, it's usually like an elderly family member that is dealing with dementia, Alzheimer's, anything like that. It is along those lines and the ways it uses game mechanics to illustrate certain things about how difficult, you know, those ailments can be. This does a, it does a really like beautiful job of communicating that. And also, you know, the animation, it just visually and music and everything is beautiful. But also it is very smart with how it incorporates the game, parts of it into trying to convey the, you know, frustration of, of memory. And you know, I'm trying not to say too much here, but it's.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, you get the sense spoiled. But I get, I think I'm getting what you're picking up as well because if you're doing like, let's say I'm just assuming that you're doing like a consistent mechanic and then it's like not working the way you expected it to, that's Reflecting what it's like to not understand.

[Dan Reichert]

Yes.

[Mary Kish]

Or have dementia yourself maybe. Which is like, I expect that I know what this system should do when I'm brushing my teeth or when I'm brushing my hair.

[Dan Reichert]

It's amazing that you do the brushing my teeth thing because that's such a consistent. But that is also. Say that's one of the early ones that they do is the brushing the teeth thing. And like it. It is a thing that is expressed in using game mechanics, I think better than like a short film or something would be able to do. So if that sounds at all intriguing or interesting to you, I would recommend checking it out. I think it does a very good job with that.

[Mary Kish]

I love this. It's also $5 now it's 45 minutes. But like, like, I always look at games as. Is this a wonderful evening experience? You know, for the price. That's what I always look at it. Not hour, but like, I always do the movie. What I enjoy and eat.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I do the movie thing. It's like bonk and I just bought Avatar tickets for her when it comes out, it's like, that was 52 for two people for. I mean, granted, it's a very long movie, but still you break down the hours to the. The time. It's like, I don't know, five bucks for. For 45 minutes or an hour of a game name doesn't seem too bad, you know?

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, absolutely not. I think that's totally worth it. It's cool. Hopefully. Would you say it's sad? I will just like, ask, like. Okay. Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, in the way to prepare.

[Mary Kish]

Myself for like an emotional.

[Dan Reichert]

I'll just say, like, anyone who's dealt with like, you know, family members with dementia or Alzheimer's, it's rarely that, like. And then they were all better, you know, it's not, you know, it's. It's a pretty realistic depiction of that.

[Mary Kish]

You know, um, I was looking if the dev ever played any or made anything and I just like, don't see them have any history of games in the past. But I've played like, iPhone games that do stuff like that that kind of like subvert your expectation with mundane, everyday tasks and then alter them slightly to mess with you.

[Dan Reichert]

It's kind of that. And. And I will also say, like, similar to Consumi, it does have a little bit of a turn at one point that is kind of like. I mean, it seems like a personal story for sure, so I'm not gonna slide it for that. But it's just like, oh, okay, now we got this extra element here that I wasn't really. I didn't know we were going there. But, yeah, I won't say too much, but, yeah, very, very similar to consuming in a couple ways.

[Mary Kish]

So that's cool. I really appreciate that type of recommendation, especially for like, an evening, you know, like, so often I'm like, I just want to, like, play a game, but I'm, like, also kind of sitting on the couch casually, and maybe there's, like, something in the background on tv. I just want play to play something. That's how I was playing Moonlighter, by the way, was like, I'm watching Naruto and, like, it's nice to just have, like, a little game that I can also play simultaneously. And, like.

[Dan Reichert]

Mary, I follow your Instagram. It seems like you're either, like, on a mountain with Simone or you're getting, like, horny about Naruto characters or something. I don't know.

[Mary Kish]

I'm a guy.

[Dan Reichert]

Who's this guy? Who's this I Can Fix him guy?

[Mary Kish]

Gaara.

[Dan Reichert]

It seems like you've been posting a lot about him lately. What's his deal? Tell us about him.

[Mary Kish]

Gaara's a freak and a half. Gaara's a misunderstood villain. In Naruto, he has a. Like, a tub on his back, like a. Like a clay pot, and it contains sand. And he can use his chakra to alter the sand, and then the sand can wrap around people, and then he uses sand coffin to crush them to death and then consume them. And so when he releases his sand, it smells like blood because it's basically stained with the blood of his enemies that he's killed over the years. He doesn't know love, so he has, like, no joy. And he has, like. He basically says his purpose in life is to kill because he doesn't know what love is. And I think I can fix him.

[Mike Mahardy]

He really skipped over a lot of middle ground there. I don't know what love is. So I'm just gonna kill everybody I meet.

[Dan Reichert]

What's desirable about this character? I don't know. Why do you want to fix this guy?

[Mary Kish]

I just think he's neat.

[Mike Mahardy]

He is pretty neat.

[Dan Reichert]

Speaking of that, Simpsons Fortnite keeps kicking ass. Simpsons Fortnite is incredible. Holy shit. I unlocked Marge Mary today. I was thinking about spending, like, 30 fucking bucks on Itchy and Scratchy.

[Mary Kish]

You went on such a tangent.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, you said. I know what you were referencing.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, I just think they're neat. Listen, who's to say what what awakens something inside of us. But when 16 year old Mary watched Naruto, well, probably like older than that, for the first time, and I, I laid my hands on Gara, who does have like heavy eyeliner and looks like an emo boy, I was like, oh, this better not awaken anything inside of me. And it did.

[Dan Reichert]

It did. Okay.

[Mary Kish]

And watching Naruto again, this is like my second round. Watching Naruto. From the beginning, I have forgotten how impactful Gara was to my awakening.

[Dan Reichert]

So, so what you're saying is Naruto, Naruto is your bedazzled.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah. Gaara. Gaara specifically now.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, okay, I understand anime now. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

[Mary Kish]

This is like that scene and it's always sunny where it's like, I get it now.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Who's, who's, who's the Zenya in Naruto Gaara? No.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, come on.

[Mike Mahardy]

No. Everything you described. No, not. But yeah, okay.

[Mary Kish]

You mean to the public.

[Mike Mahardy]

I don't know what I meant. I just want to talk about Zenya.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I get it. Mike. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

We are going to be doing a recording, a bonus episode of Arc Raiders. So if you're not a patron, like I mentioned earlier, you should go subscribe because the three of us are going to play it after this recording. However, Mary, you did write it down to talk about it tonight.

[Mary Kish]

I've just been playing a little bit of our creators and Dan, I know you, you've played it and you've talked about it. I haven't talked about it because I did not play it and I've been kind of itching to try it. I get it. I get why everybody's like really excited about it. It is such an incredible solve to so many other gaming problems of like, I'll be so devastated if I lose my loot. But this game has cracked the code with some free. Essentially you can have like free loot every time you, you go top side, which lets me feel less vulnerable or less upset when I get murked by some rando online. It's okay to die in this game because you can always have a free loadout to solve it. I just, I think mechanically what I'm saying is I think they solved an issue that other games had and it allows me to laugh when I get killed. When I get killed in this game, I am not fucking pissed off. I'm like, you won. You're better take, take my stuff. I'll just get another free loadout. It's okay.

[Dan Reichert]

But you know what's so Smart too is the free loadout thing is great, but also the safe pocket. So it's like, let's say you find some one of a kind legendary thing. It's like, all right, I'll put this over here. So even if I die and lose everything else, I still have that. Like it makes just a lot of smart little 100%.

[Mary Kish]

Where do you think the safe pocket is? But he put it in his ass. I think it is 100% all over again. It is 100% your butt. And I think it's awesome that if you find a pocket watch that is super valuable, you can keep it, but.

[Dan Reichert]

You expand it too. So is that like you're just going goatsy to get some more fucking rubber parts in there?

[Mary Kish]

I just think you stretch it out.

[Dan Reichert]

Over time, I guess.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, he didn't want them to get his watch so he took it and he shoved it up his ass.

[Mary Kish]

It's a really, that is a really great that you can tell that these guys, the, the developers are gamers and we're like, this game is great, but you know, it would make it a little better. And they, they're just solving these little core pieces that allow you to have more joy. I also think this game is really fun to watch other people play, especially people who are very good. I am, I will self admittedly say I'm not excellent at this game. I'm making lots of mistakes. I, I was like dying all sorts of, of terrible ways because I, I, I just make mistakes all the time, but I don't have the stress of losing everything that's precious to me. Every time you go top side, you gain a little bit, you learn a little bit. And you can always put one secret item in your secret pocket and there's.

[Dan Reichert]

A skill tree and all that stuff.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, totally. You're learning either way no matter what. But I like watching people who are very good at the game because it's, it's excellent to watch. There are so many things that I'm afraid of in that game. Not just like the human beings that are obviously all terrible, but there's these spiders that are mechanically, they're insane and they jump at you and like one shot, you watching people who've been playing this game for over 200 hours be able to take down these spiders. Awesome. It's very cool to watch good people play this game.

[Dan Reichert]

Mary, you gotta watch that upf we did with Kayla.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, I watched it grubbing Kayla.

[Dan Reichert]

She's, she's insane, right? Like, she is a force of Nature in that. Yeah, Just. I mean, that's the one time I played it with her, and it was just like, wow. All right. She just has an ability where she just scares people off by screaming at them. It's incredible to watch. Well, yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

She was saying, like, I'm gonna be your stepmom's mom after we're done.

[Dan Reichert]

Go full frontal on your. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's just a terrifying.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'd be afraid if I heard that.

[Dan Reichert]

Yes.

[Mary Kish]

I think online, I do not have the aura that I have irl. And online, I'm always like, hello. They're like, let's murder this person that's.

[Dan Reichert]

Bonk when she plays. But Bonk does solos. And, like, she's just the nicest person ever. And sometimes people will. I. I find myself getting very angry if people, like, you know, they're gonna shoot her, like, right at the extraction, where it's like, how dare you? She was being so nice.

[Mary Kish]

Shooting at the extraction is rude, and I think you should leave people alone. I once crawled into an extraction, and they still shot me inside the instrument. And I was like, if I'm able to crawl my, like, decrepit ass into the extraction. For anyone who doesn't know, as long even if you're downed, if you can get in, you make it, you live. Which is super cool. They still, like, took me down, even from the inside, and I was like, this should count as a safe zone. I think it should, like, morally be. You should leave people in that safe zone alone.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I agree.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think it's more interesting as a social experiment to be able to with people at the very end.

[Mary Kish]

I don't know what to expect from.

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, we are. Us three have never been together in this game, and. And Mike, you have not really started it recently. I'm looking forward to seeing how our dynamic in our creators is right after this.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, looking forward to it as well. Just watch your backs.

[Dan Reichert]

We're on your team.

[Mary Kish]

We're on the same squad.

[Dan Reichert]

Is there friendly fire? I don't even know. No one's.

[Mike Mahardy]

We'll find out, won't we?

[Mary Kish]

No.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

No.

[Mary Kish]

No squad is ever friendly fired until us.

[Dan Reichert]

All right.

[Mike Mahardy]

You want to talk about emails?

[Dan Reichert]

Sure.

[Mike Mahardy]

Alienware's biggest sale of the season lets you unleash peak performance at cyber Monday savings. Get the best prices of the year on select Alienware PCs like the groundbreaking Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop, taking performance to the next level with Intel Core Ultra processors.

[Mary Kish]

Plus, you can save on the latest accessories and displays like the Alienware 32 4K QD OLED gaming monitor. Visit alienware.com deals before the lowest prices of the year go dark.

[Mike Mahardy]

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Dan Reichert]

Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.

[Mike Mahardy]

Ugh, Stressing me out. Why are the people I love so hard to shop for?

[Dan Reichert]

Probably because they only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired. Except for the guide we made in.

[Mike Mahardy]

Partnership with Marshalls, where premium gifts meet incredible value. It's giving gifts with categories like Best Gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto, or Best Gifts for me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have. Check out the guide on Marshall's daughter and gift the good stuff at Marshalls.

[Dan Reichert]

Do you know what happens when you replace your regular old electric water heater with a new electric heat pump water heater? You boost your savings a lot. In fact, Energy Star estimates that a family of four will save an average of $550 a year on their electric energy bills. And your new heat pump water heater can pay for itself in as little as three years. Level up with a heat pump water heater. Go to levelupmywaterheater.com to learn more.

[Mike Mahardy]

Okay. As usual, you can write into firescapecastmail.com for questions you want read on the show. We got a bunch since last episode when I called because we were running a bit low toward the end of the year. We replenished for a few months, but keep them coming because, you know, the more the merrier, the more the better. Also, I think the more people send in, the more likely to get new stuff. Sometimes I think maybe people who haven't listened to the entire run of the show re ask them or it's just been been three years since we asked them. So yeah, the more people who write in, more chance there is for an unusual or unasked or uncommon question to come across. Mary, do you want to read this first one from Zach?

[Mary Kish]

Yeah. Good evening, Yin.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's a Pittsburgh thing.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, it's like y' all like John's.

[Mike Mahardy]

Like no, John. John is from Philadelphia. That's like you. You could substitute that for almost anything. Yin's is specifically like Pittsburgh's, y'.

[Dan Reichert]

All. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

Good evening Yins second time writer, longtime listener question I love. I love a listener that gets right to the point. I appreciate it. Is there something in high school you wish you would have tried, but didn't.

[Mike Mahardy]

How long have you had that? Locked and loaded, ready to go.

[Dan Reichert]

Three seconds.

[Mike Mahardy]

Never mind. I don't know why I asked.

[Mary Kish]

We had a bullet in the chamber. Sports, band, a job or activity, you know, for example, hockey is a big deal in the city of Pittsburgh. I often think of how I may have missed out on high school hockey. Instead, I was in a local band playing shows. That also sounds cool, though. Yeah, I'd say anything come to mind for all of you. Much love, Zach from Pittsburgh.

[Dan Reichert]

It's like, it's the most old man phrase ever, but the whole, like, youth is wasted on the young thing. Thing, it's like. It's like there are so many things now that, like, got just basic ass things like just general taking care of yourself. I just wish I would have, like, at a younger age, like, I would occasionally, like, go to the gym or the rec center in college and get on an elliptical for, you know, 30 minutes or whatever and go home. But like, just general taking care of yourself, general food stuff, things like that. That, like, you know, I'm definitely learning a lot as I get older and trying to make changes and stuff, but I think that stuff just is so much easier if that was part of your day to day back then. Oh, can I bring up something that might be gross?

[Mary Kish]

Yes.

[Dan Reichert]

I realize we were just me and Bon the other day. We're. We're putting the. The duvet on the. The blanket and stuff like that. I realized growing up I blame a lot of things on my dad, and I think a lot of it's fair. I was never taught that you're supposed to wash your sheets.

[Mary Kish]

Oh, damn.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's a bit gross.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, it's gross. No, I think about it now and it's like, objectively, that's just gross.

[Mike Mahardy]

So neither your parents washed like a. My mom.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, it was two separate houses and so I didn't like. I don't know about that. Really?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. I mean, that's unhygienic for sure.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. And you think about it? Well, of course, there's. There's a million reasons why that's. You probably should watch those. But yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

So to clarify, you were doing putting the duvet back on the actual comforter the other day with Bonk. This was the first time you realized you're supposed to.

[Dan Reichert]

No, no, no, no. We've talked about it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, I just.

[Mary Kish]

So many times.

[Dan Reichert]

Trust me, Trust me. It's a very clear line of pre and post. Bonk.

[Mary Kish]

I love her.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, but you didn't even like before Bonk, you didn't know that like you were, you were like in your 30s.

[Dan Reichert]

Things I didn't know before Bonk, I just wasn't taught a lot of things. A lot of basic ass things. And I think of now and I'm like, oh boy, that, yeah, but before.

[Mike Mahardy]

It'S your fault for not like learning.

[Mary Kish]

It yourself, you know, to wash a shirt after you wear it. Right. You understand?

[Dan Reichert]

Well, yeah, but there were things too where it's like, I didn't know you could wash a hoodie until I met Bonus Bonk.

[Mike Mahardy]

I thought, I think you've said this.

[Dan Reichert]

But yeah, yeah, we talked because I didn't think it was eligible for like smells because it wasn't touching your skin.

[Mike Mahardy]

Which it is eligible.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, no, I don't, that's the thing. Since I met Bonk and she just brings up a bunch of normal ass human things to me. In the last 10 plus years it's been like, oh, of course, how the did I not like.

[Mary Kish]

But don't you ever think about like being on a pillow and like, you know, like you drool when you're sleeping and stuff like that Sweat just feel like.

[Dan Reichert]

I think, I think growing up, I think the thought about like laundry and cleaning and things like that was that like if there was a stain on it, then you would do it visual.

[Mike Mahardy]

I can get when you're super young to like not know that you're just constantly like secreting stuff even when you're sleeping. Like, even on a micro level.

[Dan Reichert]

I guess considered that. But like, yeah, it's just like I, I think cleaning clothes, our hair I thought was just like, like, although, you know, I guess that's not true. Like I would wash my clothes, you know, all the time after wearing a moose just because it's touching her skin and. But I don't know why that didn't apply to. I don't know.

[Mary Kish]

But can you ever think about like impressing? Like, I understand there's like a pre and post bonk again, like, you know, real, you know, big ups to the big B. But like when you were in the courting stage of impressing, would you not want to have, have clean sheets for a lady?

[Dan Reichert]

I mean, I just. Look at this.

[Mike Mahardy]

You never had a lady in the sheets?

[Dan Reichert]

No, I mean, I think about it like it was, I think when Bonk met me it was mattress on the floor era. Still, you know, cry.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, I just never got any.

[Dan Reichert]

I, I want to say when I met Bonk, it was either like I got my mattress off the floor a month or two after that. Or it was like a month or two, but before meeting Bonk, that is. Like, when I first started the giant bomb, I was in full on, mattress on the floor guy.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's, that's a very stereotypical, like, guy who doesn't know how to actually, like, live. Bachelor. Yeah. Like, Amanda said she was still going on some dates where that was the case every once in a while.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. I was fully in the case of like, you know, my dad brain, where it's just like, well, I mean, what. It's fine. It's a mattress. It's just like, what, you're gonna spend money on something just to be highfalutin, you know? Like, I think I was. And I guarantee that's how he still thinks. Yeah, but like, I definitely, like, when I first started, the giant bomb was in full on. Like, why would I get that? It doesn't do anything. It's just. Well, now I know that actually super does do things. It's like, gives support. Help.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. I was gonna say, like, I think you get to a certain age, you have, you can't be going that low onto a mattress.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Yeah. But like, boy, the things I've learned in the lab last, you know, ten plus years or whatever. Like, Yeah. I look back and it is just like, oh, boy. All those. The twenties. We'll just say specifically the twenties. Maybe there's a pass when you're a gross dumb teenager or whatever. I do feel like the 20s when I was just like, oh, boy. There's just. I should have known that I did.

[Mike Mahardy]

Not know a lot of 20. I do think, like, not to, you know, ally feminist. Like, not to not to.

[Dan Reichert]

I thought you were gonna do ally gross, dude.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, no, I've, I've always been like, if anything, I have the option.

[Mary Kish]

I agree with Dan.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, I had like, a compulsion to shower too much and clean stuff.

[Dan Reichert]

My dad's the guy who says everyone's got skid marks all the time. So. Yeah, that's what I grew up with.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's, that's gross. I would say the thing. Sorry, continue. Or maybe don't.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, no, I'm so this is maybe.

[Mike Mahardy]

No, it's.

[Dan Reichert]

Weekly therapy is very interesting.

[Mary Kish]

Go ahead.

[Mike Mahardy]

I, no, I, there's, there's been stuff and like, I think you're, you'd be forgiven for like, early to mid-20s having your mattress on the floor. Because I think a lot of people do. But yeah, no, I, I, I, I remember Amanda, like, the first time she saw my apartment My previous one, obviously, before we lived together, she was, like, impressed that I my mattress was not on the floor and that I had art on the walls. I was like, is this the bar that, like, women are dealing with with dating? And then, yeah, I heard more horror stories after.

[Mary Kish]

I'm like, yes.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, my God. I wasn't like, I'm doing more than that to. To be appealing. But that was apparently the low bar.

[Mary Kish]

This is so true that, like, especially in College and early 20s, I would say, like, the bar is so unbelievably low that if a guy had sheets on his mattress, it was like, ooh la la. What is this, the Ritz? And it's just, like, so bad that you would do that.

[Dan Reichert]

Mary, I think on that note, can you please check the discord? I just sent you a photo of me in my college bedroom. And if you just want to break this down for the folks, let me know who this is.

[Mary Kish]

Okay. You've here on the bar, this man has four pieces of art on his walls, which is art posters.

[Mike Mahardy]

I mean, they're good shows and movies. What is this one to their head?

[Dan Reichert]

This is probably 2005 for the record, 2006, maybe. Is this a cool guy bedroom? What are you holding? Is that fire? I'm holding a handful of fireworks. If you look on the thing next to me, there's a bunch of Saturn rockets and maybe Twizzlers.

[Mary Kish]

There's a bunch of ones in a jar, which I love because it tell to me this. Your piggy bank was like a jar where you're like, I have a dollar left after Chinese food. I'm gonna pop it in here for a good time later.

[Dan Reichert]

That's great. Correct? Yes.

[Mike Mahardy]

You got a box spring, though. It's nice. Oh, you have.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, we actually regressed after this somehow to the mattress on the floor. Yeah, you regress from the curb.

[Mike Mahardy]

Your enthusiasm.

[Dan Reichert]

It's deadwood and Clint Eastwood.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, it's full of dollars. Dirty Harry.

[Dan Reichert]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Mary Kish]

What's the poster to the right that I can't see?

[Mike Mahardy]

I know. Yeah, it's like a collage paper.

[Dan Reichert]

That is a bunch. God damn it. Video game review clippings of myself.

[Mary Kish]

Oh, my God. That's unforgivable.

[Dan Reichert]

I know. It's a bunch of, like, local film student as successive films. The pictures of me and George Clinton and stuff. I'm. I'm afraid underneath their push pinned on the wall, that's a picture of me and actor James woods at a casino.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, my God. That's crazy. We just Re watched casino with James.

[Dan Reichert]

Woods in it, sir. Which. Yeah. This is just telling a picture here, isn't it? It. It's.

[Mike Mahardy]

I have to ask.

[Mary Kish]

Embarrassing.

[Mike Mahardy]

I think I know the answer. Who made the collage of articles of you?

[Dan Reichert]

My mom.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, I thought you were.

[Dan Reichert]

It was a Christmas gift. It was a Christmas gift.

[Mike Mahardy]

I thought it was you.

[Dan Reichert]

So is my backstage pass for P. Funk. It's a bunch of newspaper articles.

[Mary Kish]

That's redeeming. That's actually really sweet that your mom did that. I will also give you some ups. You have a water bottle by your bed, so you're obviously a hydro homie. And you were, like, taking care of yourself by drinking water. Unless you. There's vodka in there.

[Dan Reichert]

No, it probably was water. I probably do more of that now. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

I think that's nice. You had books, which was like, kind of the.

[Dan Reichert]

No.

[Mary Kish]

On your nightstand.

[Dan Reichert]

Are those my. Hang on, I'm zooming in. Those might be my yearbooks. I don't know. Yeah, those are my yearbooks.

[Mary Kish]

Oh, you. Unfuckable.

[Mike Mahardy]

Is this a dorm room or a house?

[Dan Reichert]

It's my apartment. Okay. That was. That was 9:20 Main and Lawrence, brother.

[Mike Mahardy]

He lived on Lawrence.

[Dan Reichert]

In Lawrence.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, gotcha. Okay.

[Mary Kish]

I mean, I. This isn't the worst I've seen. This isn't the worst that I've experienced. I think, like, again, the bar is so low.

[Dan Reichert]

I think, hell, thank you for not touching upon what me as a person also looks like.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah, I guess I think there's.

[Mary Kish]

Nothing wrong with your physical appearance. I don't know, like, what you smell like or like your. Yeah, your cleanliness. But I will say, like, there's nothing wrong with long hair. I like that look. I like, like a T shirt and jeans. Dude, I got nothing wrong with, like, your vibe.

[Dan Reichert]

I will say this. The mattress in that picture is probably filthy. But me, I was always. I was always a regular shower guy. I've never been a stinky guy. Really?

[Mike Mahardy]

That's good.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm good on that.

[Mary Kish]

I'm not worried about, like, your. Your appearance. I think you look completely reasonable. I will say, like. Like so many boys. Black sheets. Like, dark, dark sheets. And to me, that was just, like, a reflection of. We all know that these could not be white. We know that you could not get away with it. So, yeah, really dark sheets to mask the dirt.

[Dan Reichert]

What was my thought of, like, directly above the bed in this photo, I've got a poster of curb your enthusiasm. And it's one where it's just, like, like every character is Larry David's head. So what is my thought as college guy? Oh, I wanna, I'm single. I wanna try to. Hopefully things happen here. Let me put 40 Larry David heads above my bed.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah. If like a girl was. If you were like with a girl and she was looking at that in your bed, that is stressful. But I think there's nothing more stressful than the poster above the mattress on the. The ceiling.

[Dan Reichert]

I don't have that.

[Mary Kish]

Well, I mean I have evidence of that in this photo, but I would say that is.

[Dan Reichert]

That did not. That does not exist here.

[Mary Kish]

No, that is an unforgivable photo.

[Dan Reichert]

No, that did not. Location.

[Mike Mahardy]

Just getting slammed while macho man Randy Savage is staring down at you.

[Mary Kish]

That actually comes when we stayed at your house.

[Mike Mahardy]

You.

[Mary Kish]

You blew up a photo of Mike's face and put it above my.

[Mike Mahardy]

That was funny.

[Dan Reichert]

I still have that. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's still somewhere in the house.

[Dan Reichert]

House.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm looking forward to seeing what the ceiling poster is going to be this year. Back to the.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh actually I just realized Mary might have a guest in her room this year.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Based on what we talked.

[Mike Mahardy]

The one he showed us before.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, that's a.

[Dan Reichert]

That's a weird thing to be sleeping near night.

[Mary Kish]

I'm going to put like a towel on it.

[Dan Reichert]

No, that'll make it creepier in the corner.

[Mike Mahardy]

Just a weird like black like phantom.

[Dan Reichert]

For those listening by this point, two days from now, I might have a 8 foot tall Xenomorph with a strangely.

[Mike Mahardy]

Normal human torso and legs.

[Dan Reichert]

Good posture.

[Mary Kish]

No, it's a strange device. But Dan and I were just bonding over unnecessary purchases in our adult years of like, listen, we have some income that I think you can like basically just say it's disposable. Like let's enjoy our lives and do something with it. I bought a CRT for my kitchen, which is ridiculous, but it brings me a lot of joy. And you brought a c. You bought a xenomorph.

[Dan Reichert]

I visited the xenomorph tonight and I approved of him. So now I'm arranging for the transportation.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes.

[Dan Reichert]

So bad he's gonna be in this room looking over you.

[Mary Kish]

It's such a good. I mean, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not. It's not stupid.

[Dan Reichert]

So cool.

[Mike Mahardy]

Thank you.

[Dan Reichert]

Thank. I'm. I'm still looking at this picture of me in 2006 and it seems very cool.

[Mary Kish]

There's moments of this that are cool. The question was I, I.

[Mike Mahardy]

Here's mine.

[Dan Reichert]

I wish.

[Mary Kish]

What we wish we had done when we were younger.

[Mike Mahardy]

Here. This is a two parter. I. A wish I had gotten more into, like, theater, but I. I'm glad I'm not a. The. I wasn't a theater kid, but I do wish I had tried, like, performance more because I really do, like. I do, like, crave attention and I do, like, really, like when people are paying attention to me.

[Dan Reichert]

So here's the problem with that, because I. I took this route. I also love attention. And I did go into theater class in junior high and I loved it. It was. I did plays and it was fantastic. And I loved, you know, having my characters, my lines and all that stuff.

[Mike Mahardy]

Stuff.

[Dan Reichert]

And then you go to high school and then it's all musicals.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh. Oh. That's actually why I didn't get a part. I was trying to sing Daddy Warbucks, and the music teacher who hated me to begin with didn't give me the part. Yeah, I would have shaved my head and everything for Daddy Warbucks. I. But I didn't get the part.

[Mary Kish]

You could pull it off.

[Mike Mahardy]

Thanks, but no. I think that's it. I kind of. I think I've said this before. I was kind of part of, like, several different cliques in high school. Like, hung out with lacrosse players and basketball players because I literally played those sports. I. Some of my best friends were ones I geeked out about video games with, and they came over and we did system links with Halo, et cetera. Then I sometimes hung out with the cool kids, and then I sometimes hated them. So I was kind of between a bunch of groups. So I didn't really know that I had a firm identity in high school. I guess everybody's still figuring out who they want to be, but in terms of things I wish I had done, I think, like, I wish I had tried theater more, but. And I wish I had gotten into. Actually. I. One thing I'm actually really glad I did get into, I got into, like, quote unquote, AV club, which was basically, I learned how to use, like, premiere in high school. I forgot a lot of those skills later. And then Mary had to piss me off once in order for me to brush back up on them. But I was definitely like, yeah, but I know I was. I. Yeah, it. It was probably theater. I also wish I had a car in high school. I never had my own car. Really.

[Mary Kish]

Having a car was a big deal for me. I.

[Mike Mahardy]

All my friends did my car.

[Mary Kish]

Two for me. One, I always wanted to be a camp counselor, and it just never happened. For me. You know how many movies you have with, like, people are cool camp counselors and like, they get to like, do cool, sexy stuff. Like, I never had that experience.

[Mike Mahardy]

And I wished just get slammed in cabin 6.

[Mary Kish]

I wish I was a camp counselor. Ye. I've always wanted to be a cam counsel and I never did it. And now I think it'll be weird. I think if I did it now, they would be like, why is this old lady?

[Dan Reichert]

What's the age range? What is it like, early? I think it is like 20 specifically.

[Mary Kish]

Maybe even like 18.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I think you're like years 18 to 22.

[Dan Reichert]

Maybe 18 to 20, maybe like being a dorm.

[Mary Kish]

What do you call that? Like a R.A. yeah, it's like the same, but way cooler to be a camp counselor. And so, like, I regret not getting that opportunity in my youth. I would say the second one is I never truly learned to read music. And I think that was a mistake. I always was self taught. I. I've learned so many songs on piano, guitar, bass. To this day I play bass, but I am self taught. I listen to songs and I watch YouTube videos and someone will be like, here's how I play it with my hands and I mimic them and I memorize it. It. I cannot read sheet music. And I think that sucks that I didn't just sit down as a child and be like, learn how to do this. I never did. And I pay for it the rest of my life.

[Dan Reichert]

It's really confusing.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's like, really just write in English.

[Mary Kish]

But in my defense, it's really confusing.

[Mike Mahardy]

We've got onomatopoeia. Just go, twang, twang. And I figure it out. It's that simple. Mozart. Big deal.

[Mary Kish]

Mozart. When I was a kid, I was like, I ain't learning all that. Especially when. When I can literally, like, anytime I. I saw a song I really liked, I could just mimic. And this is what I did. I would listen to it on the radio and then I would just be like, okay, bom, bom, bom, bom. And then I would do it on the piano until I. Until I duplicated it. I did it by, by ear. And that's just how I learned. So, yeah, I just like, never. I never did it right. And I don't know.

[Mike Mahardy]

I wish I had read more Chekhov. No, I'm just kidding. And thank you, Zach. Dan, do you want to read this one from Doc Henslow?

[Dan Reichert]

Sure. Hey, Fire escapees. My wife loves to give me grief about a game I have played ever since we started dating. Twelve years ago, when we were in medical school together, I started to play Hearthstone. It was mainly during study breaks, but has now turned into my ADHD game. Whenever I have some downtime and just need my brain to turn off, I play it now mainly the battlegrounds game mode. Since the game doesn't give me how many hours I've played, I've done a deep dive on how many hours I've likely played. Played. Drum roll. About 7200 hours. Wow. My question, what is your most played game ever? My next closest was Halo 2 at 700 hours. That is Doc Hensla.

[Mike Mahardy]

You say it's your ADHD game, but I'm actually pretty impressed with how long you've stuck with one game. Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Dan Reichert]

I was talking about this last night. I. I got dinner with a bunch of Game Informer folks and we were talking about, like, a couple of the guys played a bunch of like, Dota and wow and stuff like that. And they had, you know, thousands of hours with all that stuff. And I still think my number one most played game ever is Soul Caliber. That's probably, you know, 500 to 600 hours.

[Mike Mahardy]

Wow.

[Dan Reichert]

In second place, like, I don't think there's many other games that I've gone more than like 100 or 200 hours with. Like, I'm sure stuff like, you know, Command Conquer World and yeah, Red Alert's probably up there. Red alert two. But like, you know, there's stuff like Mario 64 and Mario World and stuff that I go back to.

[Mary Kish]

Because you've played them so many times.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it adds up. But like, I'm still sure, like, Link to the past. My favorite game ever. The game I've beat the most, most. I'd be surprised if I played more than like 150 hours of, you know.

[Mary Kish]

I think that's fair. But it's also can. Those 150 hours are like super valuable to you.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, yeah.

[Mary Kish]

Which is something you shouldn't overlook. Right. Like, I really don't play a lot of replayable games. I often play games. I play a lot of indie games. And so, like, those games, I play really hard for like 40 hours and then they're done, I've completed them and I'm like, what a great experience. And then I move on. So it's. I don't have a lot of games that I've played for hundreds of hours. I really don't. I would say, if I had to guess and like, Steam does sometimes clock how many hours you have in games. Like I played Left for dead 2 a lot.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, the Steam stuff is nice, but it's also like well, how many times did it just the executable not close correctly or on overnight or something.

[Mary Kish]

I think the highest played game in my Steam is I Am Bread and that is not true. I. I left it overnight at Gamespot on a computer that wasn't act like that wasn't able to turn off and it logged hours for seven days. And so I have like 700 hours in I Am Bread. But did I play I Am by. I did not play that many hours of I Am Bread. So my Steam is not accurate. I would say Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 are games that I think I put hundreds of hours into. Generally I can probably gauge that I played hundreds of hours of those games back when I had hundreds of hours to play replayable games. And I just don't do that much anymore.

[Dan Reichert]

I just think we're just edge cases where it's like I don't know, my entire adult life I've been doing this for a living. So it's like I can't just stick with one game for a thousand hours. So it's like if I did not do do this for a living, maybe I would have got WOW or something back then or mobile or Dota or something and like gotten super into it. But like you just can't do it when you have to play everything, you know.

[Mike Mahardy]

I got really into Warframe for a bit.

[Dan Reichert]

I remember that.

[Mike Mahardy]

I don't know if I actually cross a thousand hours. I will say total war. Warhammer 3 now says I'm at 1200. However that I'm sure that's also idle time and similar things where it didn't close or I'm not. It could be any number of things. Like I've definitely played that game a whole lot. Like I think Warhammer 3 is probably closer to 600 something but like that's a very deep strategy game with 103, 104 legendary lords. Now I am playing still a ton.

[Mary Kish]

Of hours by the way. If we could just say like the bar of like what is a ton of hours in a game I think is 80. If you've played game for 80 hours. You have obviously loved that game.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. Yes.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

You could you read a book for once?

[Mike Mahardy]

I know all, all the things I could have accomplished intellectually if I Wasn't playing Warhammer 3.

[Mary Kish]

Learn to read music.

[Mike Mahardy]

I got to learn a ton about wine. Gotten a high level diploma you could have been somebody. But no, I'm, I'm, I've, I was just playing yesterday. I'm, I'm playing the new DLC which is embargoed for tomorrow to talk about. It's why I'm not talking about it. But yeah, I noticed that today that it said 1200, but I don't think it's actually past a thousand. Yes. Warframe, Warhammer 3. And I will say I love Warframe. I, I, I have not played it for a single second since I stopped playing it because that game very much was like that started to feel not, not like the addictions you hear about where like those people would go to like World of Warcraft, like Internet cafes back in the day and wouldn't leave for three days. Playing World of Warcraft I had control over it. However, there were times when I was like, I just played like six hours of this game and it was mindless to a point where I, I think mindless feeling. I think, I think every once in a while if you want to play a game to like, like Doc Henslow mentioned to turn your brain off, I think there's tons of value in that as like a relaxation, meditative thing. However, Warframe, I was starting to feel like a bit gross that that's the thing.

[Dan Reichert]

Like if you're playing something for you, you describe playing six hours and not feeling like anything like you had accompl. Like I, I think there's, it's not just an hour count means something or it doesn't mean something. Like I've spent this entire weekend playing Metroid Prime 4. But it's like okay, that's something I'm doing. You know, even if it wasn't for Job. It's like that is a game with a finite ending. I'm going to play this. It just came out. I'm very excited about this. I'm going to play it for a few days. You know, I, I think that's healthy and normal. I think when you say playing six hours and like I think a lot of these games where it's just kind of the carrot on the string dopamine type. I think if you play it for like five or six hours and you just kind of just feel like you were just in this like trance basically. Yeah. And it wasn't a story based thing where you're making progression. You're just kind of like, like I, I don't know. That type of stuff kind of weirds me out.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's why I'm not, I'm not ashamed to say with Warhammer 3 because it's a in depth strategy game where I'm actually like considering and like there's some sort of stimulation. But also it's funny looking back at the time frame when I was playing Warframe like that that it's very funny to look at my like life or relationship circumstances and know exactly why I was playing that like, like that in that method. But so clearly there was some like self medication going on in a, in a way that I, I also didn't need to be doing. But.

[Dan Reichert]

And I think the really good ones do a good job of hiding it. Cuz like I have spent a lot of time just playing Fortnite the last two weeks because I got to get Homer. He's the last thing in the battle pass. I gotta do that.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, I, yeah there's like a whole episode worth of like my thoughts on where much of game design is today. Which is why I infinitely appreciate Mary, you bringing cool indie games that are not like that all the time. Dan, you being able to dive into stuff that's like still very quote unquote old school and how it's not always just a carrot on a stick in front of you every five minutes. But I also talk with people at work about this all the time because we work with studios all over the world and it's like like some of the advice we give them is often counter to what a lot of like live service video games are doing these days.

[Dan Reichert]

And that, that grosses me out though like when I hear like you know there are certain like you mainly hear about this like the mobile space and stuff of people who bring like psychologists on staff to like try to like how do we incentivize player incentive, incentivize players to keep playing and not stopping or like you know, check in every two hours and and like, or the one time I played Clash Royale for like a month or whatever and that was a one like kind of mobile game. Put some money into it and everything. Not like a lot but like, and just seeing like a glimpse of that and be like oh this is gross. I don't like how this feels. And I, and I see how much it works and how effective it is and it's like I don't want to engage with this part of gaming, you know. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

And you mentioned the good games are good at hiding it. This is a different thing because it's not trying to get you to spend microtransactions but you look back at what's who, what's his name the Balatro dude.

[Dan Reichert]

He local punk.

[Mike Mahardy]

He used his experience designing slot machine interfaces to get people to, like, obviously, that's very much like a. That's a very, very intelligent roguelike. We all. It was our game of the year. It's an incredible game. But, like, he himself has said, like, oh, no. Like, some of the visual stimuli that keep you playing on slot machines. I used that for Balatro, which is.

[Dan Reichert]

Funny because Vampire Survivors did the same.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

You know, it's like. Yeah, it's obvious.

[Mike Mahardy]

Is that what I'm thinking of, or. No, I think Balatro was. Yeah, if you. But either way, I want to say.

[Dan Reichert]

It almost might have been Vampire Survivors because of stuff when, like, all the different, like, you know, it's totally Vampire Survivor.

[Mike Mahardy]

It's not Balatro. I'm so sorry. To the creator of Balatro, that game remains sacrosanct. But, yeah, no, Vampire Survivors absolutely knows how to keep you, like, just in a trance while things are blowing up.

[Dan Reichert]

And if you spend time in a casino or in Vegas, it's like, you see it and it's like all these little tricks, and, like, you can go in and know, like, okay, there's no windows. There's no clocks. They're doing these things on the ceiling to make it look like it's daytime outside.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Like, you can know that stuff, and it's still extremely effective. So it's like. I don't know, it's good to just kind of, like, just kind of back out of that. Yep.

[Mike Mahardy]

Well, thank you, Doc Henslow, for the question. All right, last question tonight. Hey, escapists. I listen to a lot of the Giant Bomb extended universe, and I think that you guys put together my favorite Game of the Year content each year. Thank you very much, Ravi. I think it's great to see and hear the energy you all bring being in the same room together. Also, it is fun hearing the banter and arguments that ensue from the alcohol being consumed. We don't consume any alcohol. I don't know what you're talking about. You all have worked in a lot of places over the years. Gamespot, Polygon Game, Giant bomb, game informer, etc. My question is, what are some of your favorite and least favorite parts of the Game of the Year process from your previous places of work? You don't have to mention places or names, but just curious if there were some highlights or lowlights you could share. Keep up the great work and looking forward to this year's Game of the Year. Thanks, Ravi. A Bit of an inside baseball question, but I feel like a lot of people would, considering how much fun we have a game of the year, would like to hear stuff we love.

[Mary Kish]

We love these conversations. And I will say I look forward to Game of the Year every year. It's like super fun. There are some like, consistent lulls that I will never like that I always got stressed about at GameSpot, which was emotional tirades of people who were like, this game is really important to me personally and I'm going to to explain it for 20 minutes.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yes. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

It is not.

[Dan Reichert]

Yes.

[Mary Kish]

Like, okay, ethically for me to interrupt someone and be like, okay, we really don't give a about that. You have to sit there and listen to someone sometimes, like get really emotional for 20 minutes about why game is so deeply and seriously important to them.

[Mike Mahardy]

Your trauma. I want to talk about B420.

[Mary Kish]

Must say, like, okay, okay, we're going to move on. And that's sucks. But like, just a game emotionally hitting at you is important. We're not saying it's not. That doesn't mean that it should be in our top 10. And that is. I think sometimes it can, but I think there is a limit to how much I can stomach someone being like, this game changed my life and I have to talk to you about it. And it's just like, can you. Can you tldr why this is so important to you?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Similarly, I remember there was a few instances again, GameSpot and GameSpot was a large staff across how many different time zones when we had. When we had these and we had people calling in and there was a few times where. And I'm not about. I. I don't expect every single person to be good at arguing a point or even talking to a lot of these people. It's the first time they're even doing some of this stuff.

[Mary Kish]

But I remember be the best game and you're just not good at explaining.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like, I'm not expecting you to be like, like the most eloquent person ever when you're telling why this game is like genius or whatever and deserves game of the Year. But I remember a couple of specific instances. Pete Brown and I would be the ones in the room to really. And Mary you to some extent too would be the ones to push people to say, like, people would do the whole like, I think the Internet has like ruined people's brains in the sense they'd be like, it's fucking bomb. It's so Good. It should be in our top 10. We're like, okay, cool. Why? And they're like, it's just. It's so good. And I'm like, good.

[Dan Reichert]

Why?

[Mike Mahardy]

And they're like, it's just the best thing ever. It's. I was like, do you know what why means? Like, I, I. And like, we. It was the. And then people would. And then this. I think at a certain point when you get into these conversations, even Fire Escape, I think there's a certain. A few points every year where it's, It's. You have to remind yourself not to take something personally and you be an adult. But, like, there are people who immediately, within the first hour of something, take something very personally. And two Big personality. This is not Fire Escape. This is Game Spot. I'll say it was Gamespot Spot. There were. You could probably figure out who I'm talking about. Really big personalities who just. You can tell, like, an interpersonal conflict is coming out in this argument. Like, they're not really talking about why Rocket League is better than the Witcher 3. They're airing grievances about each other. Mary, you might have remembered this. And I was like, guys, we are.

[Mary Kish]

I lived this.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. I was like, guys, we are an hour into this. Like, you can't be at each other's throats. Like. And then it became about, like, this person not being able to, like, separate being a critic from loving a game. As a fan, I was like, that. That was the. Not fun. Like, when you make it uncomfortable in the room.

[Dan Reichert]

That's. That's the thing I've never understood is because to me, like, the content, the thing you're making is like, yeah, you're going to debate and you're trying to kind of jockey your thing up, you know, like, especially with, like, Giant Bomb, it's always like, okay, you got to make your stand for. I know I'm the only one who really loves Sturdy Valley. I gotta get it on the list. I gotta, you know, like, it. It's like a game, you know? And then it's like, you would hear that other people treated as like. Or. Or they would need, like, a break afterwards. Just, oh, it's like emotionally rot. Or it's like. And it's like, wait, you're actually serious about this.

[Mary Kish]

Like, wait, we're just.

[Dan Reichert]

We're just talking about a game. We, like, trying to get on a list. Like, I've never once felt, like, upset, actually upset about something during a Game of the Year argument. But apparently some people, like, get actually, like, Worked up about it.

[Mary Kish]

You are very good at. At separation though, Dan. I have.

[Dan Reichert]

I just can't even fathom. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

I mean, even times where I have, I have like, I have taken shots at you and then I'm like, ooh, I hope that was okay. And you're like, I didn't even think about it.

[Dan Reichert]

No, because your shots are. Your shots are good. But I always love that.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, but we're also joking and we are. We are talking about video games. And I try and always remind people we don't save lives here. This is. This is a hobby that we love. We love it with our hearts, we love it with our souls. We put a lot of time and energy into this. You're allowed to care about this, but also remember that these are things for us to enjoy. And so when I say this game is the most important thing in the world to me and I'm so obsessed with it and it's the best. And Mike goes, I didn't like it and I didn't care for it at all. That is not him saying anything about me personally. And you have to be able to sell. Separate those things. And some people, I would say the people who really struggle at this job cannot make that distinction. Not liking your favorite game does not mean they don't like you.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah, I think one of my favorites was like, I'm probably gonna get the specific games wrong, but we were doing a Game of the Year argument, like a game informer. And, and when we did that, this, none of this was for show. This was behind the scenes. As much as Hansen, Ben Hansen wanted to broadcast all of it, it was very much the old school magazine style. Like, no, we're to just going. Going to sit down for eight hours. We're going to hash this out. Andy's going to get up on the whiteboard and we're going to just talk until we figure out our top 50 of the year. And it was just this drawn out thing of like, it was something to the effect of. I don't think it was these actual games, but it was like, okay, for number 15 and 16, is it going to be. Is Journey going to be above NBA 2K12 or something? It was like, just like Matt Helgerson, who's one of my favorite people ever, after a bunch of argument, just seeing him just kind of like sit in the corner just wanting to kill himself. Just be like, guys, we're talking about if Journey is better than this year's. But like, we're all going to die someday.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, let's let's. Let's. Let's save the energy for when it's necessary.

[Dan Reichert]

Who gives a fuck?

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, that. That kind of stuff. Like, I remember my. I think I. I led Plant, Chris Plant, and I, like, kind of cooperatively led. I want to say, three Game of the Year discussions in a row for Polygon, and the first one we did, we got into the weeds like that. In a way, that Plant and I, the next year were like, we really need to cruise through, like, the 20 to 10, the 30 who like it. At a certain point, it's almost more insulting to be number 50 than to not even be on the list. So let's not worry about between 40, 50 and 40. The actual order. That's like, yeah, yeah, don't.

[Mary Kish]

Don't blow your load for whether or not something is 46 or 47. This isn't like, this isn't going to kill you.

[Dan Reichert]

None of this matters.

[Mike Mahardy]

None of this fun. It's just funny.

[Dan Reichert]

It matters in the way that it's a fun thing to listen to on a podcast and for the people making it, it's a fun thing to put together the list and, like, I can't wait for you folks to be here in like, a week and a half and we're going to yell at each.

[Mary Kish]

Other and it's fun to fight you. It's fun to argue about the different mechanics. I think.

[Dan Reichert]

I can't imagine taking it seriously. Like. Like, I think I saw something on Reddit recently that was talking about our Game of the Year stuff, and it cracked me up because it was like, yeah, the fire. Somebody was asking like, oh, who else does Game of the Year the way, like, Old School Giant Bomb did? And somebody said fire escape. And the first comment was like, yeah, I don't know. I. I really like the way they do it. But then it, like, kind of takes some of the. The weight out of it when you realize that, like, they're gonna have all these passionate arguments about it, and then three months later, none of them can remember what their Game of the Year was.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, like, yeah, all right. Yeah, the list.

[Dan Reichert]

They're right.

[Mike Mahardy]

The list is.

[Dan Reichert]

I'm offended.

[Mary Kish]

And that's so accurate.

[Dan Reichert]

They're totally right about that. We.

[Mike Mahardy]

We forgot what it was the year after Returnal, I think. But, yeah, it's the Game of the year.

[Dan Reichert]

The Balatro is our game of the year. I forgot Balatro was tonight.

[Mike Mahardy]

Like, it's a vehicle to look back on the year of games and celebrate games and, like, just geek out and talk about the games that you love. And, like, sometimes you're like, holy, I forgot that came out this year. That game was amazing. Even though it's not, like, registering as a 2025 game, but, like, two years ago, or I think it was two years ago, maybe last year, when Pikmin 4 came out of nowhere at the end and almost got Tears of the King.

[Mary Kish]

Mike was like, you should have.

[Mike Mahardy]

Like that. That wasn't me taking something personally. That was like, me like that. I could see the politics that gave rise to that. And I'm like, no way would have been cool. And it was funny.

[Mary Kish]

I am chaos too, though, because I think. And you'll probably recognize this, especially the more that I drink drink, the more that I recognize. The most important thing is that we are having a fun, engaging conversation where people get out of their seats and say, I've had enough of you. I have to say something. And, like, that's good conversation. If we're all agreeing about the same game, I actually don't find that very interesting. So I want interesting dialogue that pushes you to your limit and into Mike's point. Point makes you say why this game should be in the top 10. Because if you can't explain it to me, I don't give a. If all three of us like it. I want someone to debate with me about why it has to be in the top 10. And if you can't do that, I don't want it on there. Even if I like the game, I. I want you to prove it to me. I wanna. I wanna see you articulate it. And I know, Mike, you. We're all capable of this. I'm probably the weakest in this element of, like, being able to explain it. But I absolutely will personally come for you do. If the game that I like the most doesn't make it. And these are all, like, things that we get to enjoy and have fun with.

[Dan Reichert]

That's such a fun moment, too, where it's like, I've seen that with Giant Bomb numerous times. Where it's like, there was one year Austin Walker was the only one who, like, had played or was super passionate about this game. Invisible Inc. Yeah. And just to see the moment where it's like. It kind of clicks in where it's like, all right, here's the point where I'm standing up at the podium and let me tell all you why this game is great. And he did. And it was like. His argument was like, okay, yeah, none of us had played this game, but it was like, it's Hard to argue with this passion, but you can also blow it. I've seen people blow it during our.

[Mike Mahardy]

I made the mistake during our. I have since stopped reading chat while we do these, and I. Oh, when have we ever. I don't know, 2020, our first one. We. I had it up because we were remote on Twitch for our first one.

[Dan Reichert]

Right.

[Mike Mahardy]

So I made the mistake for the first, like, half of the show. Show of having chat up. And I saw someone specifically say, when I was trying to push Kentucky Route 0 past both of you, not past you, but, like, I was trying to convince you it should be high in our list, there was a chat that said, like, Marty thinks he's Austin Walker but sucks.

[Dan Reichert]

And I was.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, that was. It was funny. I deserved it. I didn't know how to talk about that.

[Mary Kish]

If I was your mom, I would frame that quote and hang it in your dorm room.

[Mike Mahardy]

I. It was. I. At that point, I was like, all right, I gotta turn off chat, because that. That got me. I'm done talking about Kentucky Route 0 forever.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, that's really good.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, that was good.

[Mary Kish]

Maybe you needed to hear that, though, too.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, I absolutely did. When I was trying to get Kentucky Route 0 to fire escape, like, top five, I think that was so hard in this group. It was our first year.

[Mary Kish]

It was our first. And. And I also think, like, that game was very meaningful.

[Mike Mahardy]

I cared about it a lot, but.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah, and that's.

[Dan Reichert]

Val.

[Mary Kish]

This actually. Actually is a perfect circular point to my first point, which is you also recognized the point at which you're. The game meaning something to you personally is meaningful to me and Dan. It is. It is very meaningful that that game was so personal to you to the point where we put it on the list, because it probably wouldn't have been on our list. Yeah, we. We had done something. And so that is like meeting in the middle. The middle. There is a point where, like, when we're starting to, like, argue tooth and nail. You didn't do this, Mike. But, like, there is a point where someone argues tooth and nail to be like, well, it should be in the top five. Where it's like, you have to recognize that this group, holistically, does not feel the same way you do. So your. Your emotional weight has value, but only to a certain point. There is a point in which the dynamics of this group, especially people who do not read a lot lot. Dan. Mary won't put it very far, and we just have to recognize that.

[Mike Mahardy]

But.

[Dan Reichert]

But there is a way, like, I, you know, I won't. I can't do it justice. But like, if you watch last year's Giant Bomb game of the Year, there's, you know, Sean, Turbo Sean did. He talked a lot about how much. I think it was some Persona remake or something meant to him. And like, normally, no Persona game, I just, I don't. I could not give less of a. About any Persona game. But just hearing Sean talk about it and seeing how much it affected him and everything. Like, as much as I don't give a fuck about Persona, I wouldn't put it on any top anything list sitting next to him, hearing him, seeing him react to, it's like, yeah, I have no problem with that. Like, if this is Giant Bombs list, Turbo Sean's at Giant Bomb. Like, absolutely. Like that. The. What that brought out of him, like, that's a real thing, you know?

[Mary Kish]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

So, yeah, like there's. That's what makes it so interesting, I think. And I think we are good about that too. Or it's like if there was a game, like if Mike had some rat tile game that he fucking love this year, like, you know, if he, you know, know, really made a show of it, I think me and Mary would be like, okay, yeah, sure, we'll put the reptile game on.

[Mike Mahardy]

Bringing. I'm bringing the rodents to Game of the Year, like I always do.

[Mary Kish]

It's not gonna be like super high. But yeah, I like, I listen to and. And Jake as well. I think it's also actually really important is I think our. Our tiebreaker, our judicator, our. I would just say like our secret spice is Jake, who will sometimes come out of the woodwork. This dude does not talk very much. And we'll be like, I want to tell you guys that this game is important. And we all up and listen to him. Like, he's total game changer.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, but we also get him like once a year on the show and he's got a gavel, so it's terrifying.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

So it's.

[Mike Mahardy]

I hear this thing in my head. It's really good. It's my favorite bit ever. And like, I think last year I was like, dude, is it hot under the wig and the robe? He's like, a little bit. I was like, I don't care. You're keeping them on.

[Mary Kish]

Like, I mean, we're not going to change it. We just wanted to know how hot it was.

[Dan Reichert]

I've got like seven Kevin he can pick from this year.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, nice.

[Dan Reichert]

He'll look cool. He'll look cool.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. No I'm. I'm looking forward to Game of the Year stuff. I. I definitely like, I have actual things I hated at GameSpot and Polygon that I'm not about to talk about now. It wouldn't be good radio because I would actually be venting. But by and large, like Polygon and GameSpot, we. I also, like, I loved hearing intelligent people make their argument for a game. And it was fun at a. At a certain point. Like, even with Fire Escape, there's the element of, like, you got to know when to spend your political capital and when to withhold it. That's when I, like, now I've learned if I have a Kentucky Route 0, I should not blow my capital, my.

[Dan Reichert]

Political load on that game unless you're really confident. And that's where you want to put all your points this year.

[Mary Kish]

You know, like, you can't be emotional about 20 different games. I think that's so smart. And it's like my other major pet peeve. So, like, again, as we said, you can't. Can't have an emotional labor of love for 20 minutes. Like, sum it up, like, get to the point. The second one is, is you can't do that five times.

[Mike Mahardy]

You can't.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

You can't have five games that changed your life. I think the best argument, three and tell me why and that's it. But you, you can't do this to me every time. You can't be like, this is the game that like, changed me and like, my mom and I have a better relationship. Shut the up. Which one truly need to be up a notch. You can't do this.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. No. I also think the best arguments are relatively brief. Like, I like, I think if you have good. If you have a good point to get across, I don't think it should be that long winded to make.

[Mary Kish]

I agree. The best arguers as well. And this is like something that will also come up and, And Mike, you alluded to this earlier is like the best argument. You might not necessarily have the best game, but you have found a way to articulate your point that is convincing to the group. What's so fascinating about Game of the Year is that quite frankly, like, in so many of these cases, it's not so much that it's just truly like this objectively great game is that the people that were fighting for it are very good at making their arguments and also getting people on their side. There is a political nature to this battle. Right. There's three of us. If two of us are like really cited on this. It can sway the difference.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

Jake. Jake. I consider like the. The bonus, like, surprise. Like, I. I'm tie breaking. But generally speaking, the three of us make these calls of like, what should be where. And so if you can sway someone on your side, that is a big difference. So, like, yeah, the game obviously, huge say in this, but how you are able to argue how you are able to, like, get. Be with you or not. And especially like, in my experience at Gamespot, if you could rally that room, not only could you, like, score big points for that game, you were also the coolest person in that room. Like, it's.

[Dan Reichert]

It.

[Mary Kish]

There was a high that came from being able to get people to be like, you're right, that is a good game.

[Dan Reichert]

And you mentioned Jake and like, really spending your points appropriately and everything. I'm looking at last year's. And if I'm looking at this right, I think Laura lay in the laser eyes. It was never. That was a super, super. And like. And I remember Jake loved that game.

[Mary Kish]

And he came out of the wood.

[Dan Reichert]

Worth the argument in a way that was like, yep, that makes sense.

[Mary Kish]

And then guess what he did? He sat back down and he waited until he had something funny to say. And that's why he's the judge. If he did that every time, it'd be annoying.

[Mike Mahardy]

I.

[Mary Kish]

He used his points.

[Mike Mahardy]

I still wake up in the middle of the night from a deep sleep and start laughing sometimes at the. The memory of Jake playing the judge thing. And then we're all like, waiting with baited breath. He's like, give me a beer.

[Dan Reichert]

Someone get me a beer. He's great.

[Mike Mahardy]

Judge Jake.

[Mary Kish]

And just said, I just don't want to hear you talk anymore.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

He's like, this is just going on too long.

[Dan Reichert]

Anyway.

[Mary Kish]

Judge Jake, I. I think it's a wonderful time. I think there's a lot of positives and there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of trials and tribulations of it. The good news of Fire Escape is I actually think it's mostly like, all of the joys of these things. Like, there was a lot less way less drama than gamespot, which is just like, all right here.

[Dan Reichert]

This any place I've ever been, less drama.

[Mary Kish]

It's like, here we go.

[Dan Reichert]

I'll say. I've literally never been legitimately angry at any of you during any of these conversations.

[Mary Kish]

No, You're a saint, though. I wonder, like, have you ever been legitimately angry at a game? At a giant bomb?

[Dan Reichert]

No.

[Mary Kish]

No game See, like, I think you are an anomaly, but most people do get mad at a game of the year debate because. And again, it's not because a game isn't good and it shouldn't be that high. It's because a person is irritating.

[Dan Reichert]

I have never been upset about something. I have just been surprised when I have seen people be legitimately upset about stuff. You know, it's like, oh, I didn't know we were doing that. All right.

[Mary Kish]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Passion. What's materializes differently in different people. And I think some people, it's like it's more of a toxic thing. And I'm like that, I guess.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

You did not play Mass effect legendary edition 20 times this year. So I'm gonna nix that from your argument. That's physically impossible.

[Mary Kish]

If I can just also like. If I could also just like shoot our own horn one more time, I will just say something that's really awesome. I think about the Fire escape dynamic is that we all have very different argumentatives styles. Mike is usually very analytical. You will bring up like very specific points of why this game is designed explicitly better. That is your secret sauce. That's like what makes you extremely good at what you do. I think that Dan, you have Riz and you will just. You. You have sway and you will explain things in a way that is like really charismatic and entertaining and enjoying enjoyable. And people will be like, man, I like this guy. I like the way you explain it, like the way you say it. And people like naturally go your way. And I scare people into submission. And I think we all have different styles of game of the year and they flow well together.

[Dan Reichert]

Mary, the amount of times people when they bring Fire escape up to me and the first thing they say is, I love fire Escape because I love how much Mary can just put you in your place and just shut you the down. And I'm like doing it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah. I still think about you're not important enough to be this annoying. And it's like, my God, there's never been a more laser beam attack at me. And I love it.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's the Mahardi thinks he's Austin Walker, but sucks comment.

[Mary Kish]

Brutal.

[Dan Reichert]

I have nothing but just like, I just want to applaud that and like that that's what people love. Like, they love that dynamic with you and me. And I'm like, yeah, I get it.

[Mary Kish]

Totally. I think we have good dynamic together and I think that's what separates us. There are a lot of companies out there that do Game of the Years, but those People were not, they did not decide to do that together. They were chosen by like, you know, people who hired them. And like, there's a lot of bureaucracy that goes into that. There's people that should, that are in those rooms that probably shouldn't be. There are people that are in that room that should have left ages ago. There's a lot of shit going on in a lot of those rooms. We choose to do this every year and so we choose to have this dynamic. And I think it, I think it allows for it to just be like a little bit more natchee and a little bit good. So anyway, I, I'm biased, but I just prefer the way that we, we do it.

[Dan Reichert]

This is making me very excited for about a week and a half from now.

[Mary Kish]

Good news. We're about to fucking do it.

[Dan Reichert]

Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Well, that's our episode. Thank you, ravi. But yeah, December 6th, about, let's just say roughly 7:00pm Central. We'll figure out the exact timing. It'll be on Twitch tv.

[Dan Reichert]

We're going to have a dinner and then we will start doing our thing. Yeah.

[Mike Mahardy]

Twitch TV. Danreichert. But also go follow fire escape cast on YouTube if you're not a patron and you want to get video versions or ad free episodes of our normal episodes. But also we'll be putting up the Game of the year as a two parter on December 8th and the following week, December 15th. Also, Vinny Caravella of Nextlander and I do a co op show Total Warhammer 3 where we're playing through a campaign for Fire Escape Cast and another different campaign with different factions, different part of the world for Next Lander. So if you're not a patron for them, please go do that. They're awesome. Those of you who already are know they're great. We will. We have merch. It's firescape cast. Merch.com still can get your, your water bottles if you want to make sure you're hydrated during game of the year, which we need to do too. If you want to get your banana hammocks, if you want to get your pajamas, your swim trunks maybe, you know, stock up while it's cold.

[Mary Kish]

New sweater for Christmas.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh, Dor.

[Mike Mahardy]

Do we still have is dorky Christmas? You can get dorky Christmas sweatshirts. That'd be great.

[Dan Reichert]

It's got a hand job.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mary Kish]

It's not a.

[Mike Mahardy]

It'S not a hand job.

[Dan Reichert]

It's about a hand job.

[Mary Kish]

I said this story before but that I have a friend who like said they had a holiday Celebration and a little girl came to downstairs and looked at everyone and said, I'm not pooping. And everyone was like, all right, well now that's all we think you're doing. I probably shouldn't explain something you're not doing publicly because now it's all I could think about.

[Mike Mahardy]

But yeah, we're looking forward to it. Game of the Year, Dan. What do you have going on in the meantime?

[Dan Reichert]

Giant Bomb. We're doing our game of the year stuff. You know, we'll definitely be announcing when all of that that's going to be rolling out. We will be recording it soon. We'll be doing, you know, talk overs for the game awards and things like that. But yes, the actual Game of the year award deliberations, we will be announcing the timeframe for that. But yeah, very much looking forward to it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Mary, what about you?

[Mary Kish]

Streaming every Monday on Twitch and mostly I think my funnest updates right now are on Instagram daily. Like just in my day to days. I just find that a, an update that disappears after 24 hours is the most alluring to me. So like the majority of like what, what I'm doing on my day to day is going on Instagram stories. I just find that fun. What about you, Mike?

[Mike Mahardy]

Just working in Maggot, doing the more behind the scenes and video games, which is nice.

[Mary Kish]

You said working at Maga.

[Dan Reichert]

Well, that's behind you.

[Mike Mahardy]

How do I put this?

[Mary Kish]

He loves ice.

[Mike Mahardy]

I, I, I don't blame you for hearing that. No, I'm working at Magid is the.

[Dan Reichert]

Company I work for.

[Mike Mahardy]

We are, we're, we're all over the place. I want to hear something. Want to hear something funny? I will be flying to Dan's house for Game of the Year from the south of France.

[Dan Reichert]

Oh my God, that's a bad idea.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, you're gonna be bad idea. I wish I could help it.

[Mary Kish]

Dan, do you know how to make an espresso martini?

[Dan Reichert]

I can do it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh yeah.

[Dan Reichert]

Is it vodka?

[Mary Kish]

It's important.

[Dan Reichert]

Espresso and coffee.

[Mike Mahardy]

Coffee liqueur. Espresso and vodka. Oh, I'll, I'll be making them.

[Mary Kish]

I think that's going to be.

[Mike Mahardy]

This is the day before Game of the Year, for what it's worth, but.

[Dan Reichert]

We got dinner the night before.

[Mike Mahardy]

Oh, I'll be fine. I don't think I'm not going to be there long enough to super get adjusted to the time. For what it's worth.

[Dan Reichert]

Right.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'm there.

[Dan Reichert]

Literally going to be chaos. You. Here's the thing, Mike. I Swear to God, you and Jake need to stay awake for Naked Gun the night before. I.

[Mike Mahardy]

Again, I think I'll be fine. I, I think I'll be jet lagged just from the physicality of traveling. But I'm only there two nights.

[Mary Kish]

Has everyone seen the Naked Gun?

[Dan Reichert]

No, Mike hasn't. And Jake hasn't?

[Mike Mahardy]

No, Jake, he has. I'm pretty sure Jake has.

[Dan Reichert]

Okay, well, Mike, I swear to God, it's like an hour 25. It feels like it's 20 minutes long. Oh, yeah, you, you, you fucking say. I'm shoving my fingers into your brain stem. You don't fucking stay away.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's a very weird threat out of. For people. Don't. Didn't see the context last year. I'm not even going to expound on.

[Mary Kish]

It, but I have video evidence somewhere. I don't know what I've done with it, but.

[Mike Mahardy]

Yeah, yeah, no, I'm, I'm. I'm not going to be in France long. It's like literally two nights and then I'm back.

[Mary Kish]

I can't believe you're going to France.

[Dan Reichert]

You can't?

[Mary Kish]

I can't, Mike.

[Mike Mahardy]

I'd live there.

[Dan Reichert]

I could.

[Mike Mahardy]

Well, I can. I might. I will.

[Mary Kish]

It is reasonable.

[Mike Mahardy]

All right. But no, in the meantime, I'm. I don't really do anything forward facing. I'm just. Here, this is. You guys get all of my forward facing Shenans. Oh, God damn. That video I sent you, I. This is the first.

[Dan Reichert]

I hate it so much.

[Mike Mahardy]

That's the first time I heard vodka soda referred to as a VOD sod.

[Dan Reichert]

I really didn't like it.

[Mike Mahardy]

Order a couple VOD sods at the bottom bar before you switch over. Some Coors lattes. I hated it too, but those are stuck in my head. I want a Coors latte before I switch to the VOD side. All right. We will be back for Game of the year live December 6th book market. We will see you then.

[Dan Reichert]

Bye bye. Bye.

[Mike Mahardy]

All right, I'm gonna stop recording.

[Mary Kish]

That was very funny, I thought.

[Dan Reichert]

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