Fire Escape Cast #87

Summary

Fire Escape Cast #87 Summary

Release Date: August 12, 2024
Hosts: Dan Ryckert, Mary Kish, and Mike Mahardy

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1. Olympic Insights

The episode kicks off with an engaging discussion about the recent Olympic Games. The hosts delve into various events, highlighting the United States' performance and reflecting on memorable moments.

• Gymnastics Glory: Mary expresses her pride in the gymnastics team's achievements, noting, "I put on my American flag cap and root for the gymnastics team because they always do so good. And again, they got the gold. So I was really proud of the girls. They just killed it." (02:14)

• Unexpected Outcomes: Mike shares surprising Olympic outcomes, mentioning, "This is the first time ever in Olympics history that the 4 by 4 individual or 4 by 4 medley relay, we did not get the gold." (04:03)

• Basketball Brilliance: The hosts discuss the standout performances in basketball, praising the lineup that includes NBA stars like LeBron James and Steph Curry. Mike specifically notes the formidable talent on display: "It's a lot of good players. It's a pretty scary lineup." (05:35)

• Esports in the Olympics: The conversation veers into the potential inclusion of esports in future Olympic Games. Mary muses, "There's a world here where we can compete with who is best at Mario Party." (08:28), reflecting on the evolving landscape of competitive gaming.

2. Nostalgia and Concerns: The Game Informer Shutdown

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the abrupt shutdown of Game Informer by GameStop, sparking a heartfelt conversation about the impact on the gaming media landscape.

• Personal Connections: Dan reminisces about his tenure at Game Informer, sharing, "Game Informer is the entire reason I do what I do and I've lived the life I live is because I subscribed when I was nine years old." (31:25)

• Industry Impact: Mary underscores the loss to the gaming community, stating, "I think that's a huge void left behind... it's just a time and a place. And I think that's sad, but we will basically be the children of that content for a long time." (35:31)

• Corporate Failings: The hosts critique GameStop's handling of the shutdown, highlighting the sudden layoffs and the erasure of Game Informer's online presence. Dan remarks, "GameStop is still, in spite of itself, still around. But as they are circling the drain and have been for a long time." (33:19)

3. Exploring Current Games: Dungeons of Hinterberg, Arranger, and More

Transitioning from industry reflections, the trio delves into their current gaming experiences, offering in-depth analyses and personal insights.

• Dungeons of Hinterberg: Mike provides a comprehensive overview of the game, combining elements of Zelda and Persona with puzzle-centric dungeons. "It's a mix of Zelda and Persona and there are some loot-esque elements but not much. It's kind of like Stardew Valley set up." (64:56)

• Arranger: The hosts discuss "Arranger," a puzzle-adventure game praised for its simplicity and creative mechanics. Mary shares her experience, "The dungeons are where it's at. It has a great loop of like the day and night cycle. It's fun." (75:07)

• SteamWorld Heist 2: Mike expresses enthusiasm for the sequel, highlighting its tactical depth and seamless integration of overworld mechanics. "It's a very tactical game. It's very deep in how it teaches you stuff." (82:00)

• The Witness: Dan and Mary provide their take on Jonathan Blow's "The Witness," discussing its challenging puzzles and evocative storytelling. Mike recalls an amusing anecdote about an interview with Blow, emphasizing the game's intricate design despite its developer's quirks. "I remember he was just saying something about the flow of the puzzles in your mind space as you're moving through the Witness." (90:33)

4. Light-hearted Moments: Pigeons, Dogs, and Humor

Injecting humor into the episode, the hosts engage in playful banter about holding pigeons, sharing laughs and entertaining scenarios.

• Pigeon Challenge: A humorous segment unfolds as the hosts debate the feasibility of carrying multiple live pigeons without aids. Mary jokes, "Three baby pigeons in each hand and then two underneath my armpits... that's eight!" (130:33), leading to a series of comedic exchanges about their imagined Olympic pigeon-carrying prowess.

• Dog Anecdotes: Listener Andrew from Texas shares a touching yet funny story about his dog, Humphrey. Mary responds warmly, "Thank you for rescuing an elderly Jack Russell terrier. That's very cool of you. Rescuing older dogs is very rad. And dogs are awesome." (114:35). Further stories about their own dogs, Simone and Gizmo, add to the light-hearted atmosphere.

5. Listener Letters and Recommendations

The episode features listener interactions, showcasing personal stories and media recommendations.

• Personal Stories: Jeff writes in about his dog, inspiring the hosts to share similar experiences. Mary recounts a neighborly incident involving her dog, highlighting the joys and challenges of pet ownership.

• Media Recommendations: Wes from Baltimore recommends the TV show "Red Oaks," set in a 1980s New Jersey country club, lauding its enjoyable premise. Dan suggests "Dog Bites Man," a short-lived Comedy Central series featuring improvisational humor, which Mary relates to similar modern YouTube content.

• Book and Show Recommendations: Mike recommends Bill Watterson's illustrated book "The Mysteries," and shares his nostalgia for Genndy Tarkovsky's animated series "Clone Wars" and other unique shows like "Black Donnellys."

Conclusion and Promotions

As the episode wraps up, the hosts encourage listeners to engage with their content and support their endeavors.

• Patreon and Merchandise: Mike promotes their Patreon for ad-free episodes and exclusive content, alongside Fire Escape Cast merchandise available at fireescapecast.com.

• Upcoming Episodes: The trio discusses future plans, including Dan's absence due to travel, and teases upcoming content centered around gaming events like Gamescom.

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Notable Quotes:

• "It's the most patriotic I get." — Mary (02:49)
• "Game Informer is the entire reason I do what I do and I've lived the life I live is because I subscribed when I was nine years old." — Dan (31:25)
• "There has to be that for like... didn't they talk about esports?" — Mike (08:39)
• "Dogs are awesome." — Mary (114:56)

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and moments from Fire Escape Cast #87, offering a comprehensive overview for listeners and newcomers alike.

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Timestamp Reference:

• [MM:SS] indicates the minute and second marks in the transcript where the quoted content appears.

Transcript

[Mike]

Sorry. I just choked on so much water.

[Dan]

That's it. That's it. That's the start of the show. Go. Go into it. Be a pro.

[Mike]

No, we didn't get rude.

[Dan]

We're live, pal. Come on.

[Mike]

Hey, everybody, this is the start. Welcome back to the Fire Escape cast. It is. Who the fuck knows what day it is. It's episode 87. That water went straight into my lungs, I think.

[Dan]

Oh, man. It'd be funnier if it was like anything but water.

[Mike]

No, it's just water. I have tea here too.

[Dan]

That'd be funny.

[Mike]

That would have hurt because this is hot.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike]

We were trying to get room silence for Jake. This is all really nitty gritty stuff. And then I just choked on water. And then.

[Mary]

It's fun to watch you not get a second go, though. This must be how the Olympians feel when they are competing and there's no redos and you just have to go.

[Mike]

I'm. I'm like Stephen Nez Neteroc. If I walked up to the Palmer Horse, did one spin and then crotch punched it and then fell off.

[Mary]

So you'd get. You'd get bronze?

[Mike]

No, I'd just lose. I would fall off the pommel horse completely.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Dan]

Is he the guy who's a wiener hit the bar on the way down?

[Mike]

No, but that guy's funny too. That's the. That's the.

[Dan]

That was great. That was really good. He didn't like it. Like, didn't like ruin his wiener or anything.

[Mike]

Right.

[Dan]

Like, he's ok. Like, we can laugh at it.

[Mike]

No. Yeah. I think those poles are pretty flexible. Okay. And so is the thing he's jumping over. There's not a lot of good stuff. We've. We've. We were not super excited for the Olympics, but then the day one, we started watching them. We've been. They've been on all the time in our apartment.

[Dan]

I feel like I've just seen the wiener guy.

[Mike]

That makes sense. You've probably seen the Turkish Air Pistol guy with his hand in his pocket. You've seen him. There's that event where they're using like the air pistol on the target. But a lot of people have like this. These crazy Metal Gear Solid esque eye apparatuses. He just like, basically had a hand in his pocket in regular glasses and like kind of just nonchalantly walked up and got what? Silver, I think.

[Dan]

Oh, wow.

[Mike]

To the Korean shoe.

[Mary]

I think the girl who had all the stuff also looked really cool with all of her goggles and glasses and doodads I love watching the Olympics. It makes me. It's the most patriotic I get. Every four years, I basically, like, only stew about the things I don't like about America. And then during the Olympics, I put on my American flag cap and root for the gymnastics team because they always do so good. And again, they got the gold. So I was really proud of the girls. They just killed it.

[Dan]

Are we generally good at Olympics as a country?

[Mary]

It depends, but we're known for getting up there on the metal counter. So, like, they usually compare how many medals each country gets. And I think we were up there, although I don't actually know where we fared, but we were second last time I looked.

[Mike]

No, no, no, no, no. We. That's because track and field hadn't started yet. We're well ahead of China. China has, I think, more golds. Let me. Yes. We're almost, like, always really good at the Olympics. 21 gold medals. We have 20, but we have 78 total. They have 53.

[Dan]

Wow.

[Mike]

France is doing pretty well. They're at 48 medals.

[Dan]

What do we suck at?

[Mike]

Well, it's the first time men's gymnastics as a team got a medal since 2004. Mary, you would probably know more than me. Something like that. We're generally really good at swimming. This is the first time ever in Olympics history that the 4 by 4 individual or 4 by 4 medley relay, we did not get the gold. That's when they do four guys or four women. But in this case, it was the men. Each person on the team does a different stroke, and that's the first time we've lost it ever. Yeah. That's why I love the Olympics.

[Dan]

Is Michael Phelps still doing the swimming thing?

[Mary]

No, he was.

[Dan]

Oh, he was there.

[Mike]

He commentates. He's like a big pundit now. He. He. His coach at Arizona State is now coaching, like, the fastest swimmer in the world, who is French. Leon Marchand. And Michael felt. He broke Michael Phelps record for. Forget what stroke it was. Breast. There's a lot of sexual terms in swimming.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Breaststroke. That's about it.

[Mary]

Stroke.

[Dan]

Stroke. I mean, breast and stroke are both. Yeah. In that realm.

[Mike]

Titillating.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Basketball has been fun to watch because it's a ton of players I usually hate because they're on the other teams that are on team with Steph Curry now. And Steve Kerr is coaching. He's a Warriors coach. It's fun.

[Dan]

So are they, like, all NBA players?

[Mike]

Yeah, and they're playing a lot of NBA players on other teams, but it's It's a pretty scary lineup. It's always scary, but it's like LeBron, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, Devin Booker, Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis. It's a lot of good players.

[Dan]

If there was, like, a dude that was incredibly good at basketball but had no desire to play in the NBA, could he be on the team technically, with the NBA players?

[Mike]

I think technically, yeah. There's nothing stopping. Because I don't. I forget what year they started allowing NBA players. I think it was the dream team with Bird, Jordan Johnson.

[Mary]

I like the idea of just getting one unbelievably tall person.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And they just. But they stay really close to the net, and then they put it in there.

[Mike]

There's a French player. He plays for the San Antonio spurs in the NBA, but he plays for France in the Olympics. He's a Center. He's 7 4. Wembanyama.

[Dan]

Remember that Billy Crystal movie, My Giant?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Who was that guy? Was he a real basketball player? I'm gonna look him up. He was really tall. George Morshon. He was seven foot seven. He's still alive. Wow. Seven seven's insane.

[Mike]

You see the photo of Shaq and Simone Biles standing next to each other from a few years ago? Yes.

[Mary]

That's shocking.

[Mike]

She's 4 8.

[Dan]

Oh, geez.

[Mike]

Yeah. And he's. He's 71 or 7ft tall or something.

[Mary]

She's, like, not even to his waist. It just looks like a small child.

[Mike]

Yeah. And a huge adult man. Which is what he is.

[Mary]

Which is what he is. That is accurate.

[Dan]

We've got a couple of those photos of Bonk and professional wrestlers, like the Big show and Omos, who are, like seven foot plus and she's five foot.

[Mike]

It's always fun. It's like, how are we the same species? It's crazy.

[Mary]

How tall was Andre the Giant?

[Dan]

Shoot or work height?

[Mary]

What?

[Dan]

In real life, you're normally spared this because the 50% wrestling fan ratio is not cross on this podcast. So I don't poison this one with wrestling talk. He was billed at 7 foot 4, or he might have been billed at 7 6. Wikipedia has him listed as a shoot 7 4.

[Mike]

Which is real.

[Dan]

Shoot is real. Yeah, let's. Yes.

[Mike]

That's how tall women Yama is.

[Dan]

It's.

[Mike]

It's crazy. But, yeah, the Olympics have been super fun to watch. Paris has been, like, killing it at all. Everything I'm reading and, like, seeing everybody seems excited. The crowds are packed. Beach volleyball has been super fun to watch. Tennis was fun. Djokovic got his first Olympic gold. I don't know. I. We weren't looking forward to them, and all of a sudden they started. We're like, oh, yeah, this is really cool. When it's. We're also coming off of the COVID Olympics, where nobody was in the stand, so obviously no way to go up. You can only go up from there. But it's still been super fun.

[Dan]

I've definitely seen more Mario and Sonic Olympics than real shoot Olympics. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me, but I think. I think I would like it. I like competitions. You know, there.

[Mike]

There's some, like, fun stuff. Like, there's breakdancing. Oh, there's the table tennis is always just. Those are honestly the most impressive people at the entire Olympics. I don't understand how their brains work that quickly.

[Mary]

Skateboarding is fun to watch.

[Dan]

Skateboarding, that's in the Olympics. That's awesome.

[Mary]

It is. They add them all the time. All the time. They'll be like, this is a new sport. Everyone's really stoked about it. What do you think? And then there's probably some kind of, like, secret elite process that we're not privy to, where they decide whether or not it's allowed in. Still cool, though.

[Dan]

Yeah. I love competitions, and I love the idea of finding out the objective. Best in the world at something. And it seems like that's what the whole point of the Olympics is.

[Mary]

That's why I feel like there should be more, like, best in the world.

[Mike]

Are you waiting for us to congratulate?

[Dan]

No, I'm just realizing it as I talk it out in my head. It's like, wow, they already getting there.

[Mike]

I mean, there has to be that for like.

[Mary]

Didn't they talk about esports?

[Dan]

Oh, yeah, we talked about esports. I do remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've talked about real sports, too, but.

[Mary]

Esports on the Olympics, is there.

[Mike]

No, not yet, but there's. It's been discussed, I'm sure. Actually, I'm not sure. I'm just saying that. Has it been Mary, you seem to.

[Mary]

Think it has been gold medal Tetris finalist. I mean, I just think, like, there's. There's a world here where we can compete with who is best at Mario Party.

[Dan]

And I bet it would be an event that Jeff Keighley owns and charges a lot of money for and broadcast.

[Mary]

No, don't let him get his mitts on that.

[Dan]

He will.

[Mike]

No, guys, welcome to. No, that's jfk. Hold on a second.

[Mary]

It's the same. Keep going.

[Mike]

Okay, guys. Hey, everybody. Welcome to gaming's biggest night. No, it is not the game awards. It is the Olympics. For the first time ever, we are here. Also here. My friend Hideo Kojima. That's all I've got. I think it was better the first time I ever tried it.

[Mary]

Randomly covered in metals.

[Dan]

And I'm wearing it once. The best game developer gold, silver and bronze award.

[Mike]

He just keeps trying to give the gold to Hideo. Hideo's like, I don't play overwatch.

[Dan]

Mike, you said something a second ago and then said you weren't actually sure of it. Which reminded me. You've got a little corrections, I heard.

[Mike]

Yeah, apparently. What do you want to call it? Sparkling water hydrates you just as much. Which, here's my question. Does that mean that if I had this cup filled to the brim with still and then the same exact size cup filled to the brim with sparkling, drinking each of those would hydrate me equally?

[Dan]

Yeah, if you just dumped a bunch of bubbles in there, it wouldn't suddenly make it not hydrating.

[Mike]

It's gas. It takes up. It takes up. It's like. That's going to change the volume.

[Mary]

Yeah, the volume. There we go.

[Mike]

So, okay, so my question is how. And this is a genuine question because I don't fully understand it, because the bubbles take up space.

[Dan]

I never thought of that before.

[Mike]

So if you drank the same liquid volume of both. I can't. I don't understand how sparkling would hydrate you as much.

[Dan]

What if the bubbles like super. What if the bubbles.

[Mary]

Maybe it's that small. It's like really. It's like an insequential amount of volume.

[Dan]

Or what if the bubbles have like a hydration multiplier? Like they take up a little bit of space, but they have a times two hydration factor.

[Mike]

I don't know, maybe. But like, I mean, I don't think that's the thing, but who knows?

[Mary]

Carbonation.

[Mike]

What's wrong with that?

[Mary]

Yeah, what if it's not a bunch of little bubbles? What if it's one big bubble?

[Dan]

The orb or the sphere? What was it?

[Mike]

You made it up.

[Mary]

You had to get. I got triggered last episode for saying the sphere.

[Dan]

What do you mean? Dan?

[Mike]

You had a whole rant about the.

[Mary]

I was really wrong of me to call it the sphere.

[Dan]

Wait, I remember talking about the orb or the sphere. I thought that was Mary's whole gimmick though. She came up with it.

[Mike]

I truly don't remember, but I think.

[Dan]

The orb is Mary's doing also.

[Mike]

But people did support my Claim that. What do you want to call it? What's the water thing you freak out about? Liquid death.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike]

That has like non natural additives.

[Dan]

So that's agave something in it.

[Mike]

Agave is natural, but it's also got.

[Mary]

Dan's like, listen, it's got chemicals. I saw agave in there.

[Dan]

Hang on, I'll look at. Okay.

[Mary]

Carl.

[Dan]

Carbonated water, agave nectar, citric acid and natural flavors. That's it.

[Mary]

It's catchy.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Dan]

Yeah. Their iced tea has a small amount of natural caffeine from black tea.

[Mike]

Okay. But I still will never take liquid advice from you because you drink prime for a while.

[Dan]

I'm leaning more on liquid death these days.

[Mike]

Liquid death is great. We went to. We did an on location project at a game studio in the summer and. Or, sorry, in the spring and they stock their fridges to the brim with liquid death. That was my first. Like, we were at the studio for like a week. So I was just pounding them. Mango is awesome. We talked about that.

[Dan]

Mango chainsaw is the best.

[Mike]

Yeah, mango chainsaw is great. I like, I like. Is it just like mixed berry something? They're all puns. Grave berry, something like that.

[Dan]

Yeah, berry.

[Mike]

But okay. For the people who wrote in, that's my question. Is all things being equal, I have two glasses filled to the brim. They're same size glass, same hold the same volume. If one is sparkling water, one is still water. Would the still water not hydrate me more? Are the bubbles that, like, small, that it doesn't make a difference? Because that's vexing to me.

[Mary]

I have a coworker who strongly believes that the temperature of the water impacts how hydrating it is. Now, their theory is that if you were to. Have you ever heard of, like, people who are like in a frozen tundra and they're eating snow for water and it actually doesn't hydrate you because your body has to regulate the snow. Right. Has to melt it in your tum tum, turn it into water. And the amount of energy that it takes your body to melt the snow into water is more than the hydration you get from the snow. So eating snow doesn't replenish your hydration. It actually will make you more dehydrated.

[Mike]

There's like survival books and stuff that I've read. Yeah, they put the snow in pots and stuff. If they can make camp and boil it.

[Mary]

Correct.

[Mike]

To clean it, but also to melt.

[Mary]

That's the max version. What my friend is saying is that you should always be Drinking room temperature water. That's not fun if you get a cold drink.

[Mike]

Yeah, but we're not in the tundra. We're just sitting at desk writing about video games.

[Mary]

Not what we're talking about. We're talking about what hydrates you the most. And what hydrates you the most is room temperature liquids that your body doesn't have to alter.

[Mike]

Well, is this related to. Apparently it was like it was debunked that the Cub Scouts used to teach you if you are hot, overheated, like out in the wilderness, you drink something hot to cool you down.

[Dan]

What?

[Mike]

Because your body senses something hot going into you and then works to cool your entire body down. But then they debunk that. They're like, I. You're. You know.

[Mary]

You guys, this is stupid.

[Dan]

Hey, wait, are the Boy Scouts stupid?

[Mike]

I mean, they get a lot of things right, but like, I. They don't teach that anymore, I don't think. You know how often I. You know how seldom I talk about something without having all the evidence to back it up.

[Mary]

Are you a Boy Scout?

[Dan]

Never happened.

[Mike]

No, Jeff Grubb was. I'm not. Jeff Grubb was. What? What did he become an Eagle Scout?

[Dan]

No, I think he just meant to Boy Scouts.

[Mike]

Oh, that's like the blue belt of Boy Scouts. Fun.

[Dan]

Yeah, I just stayed at his house for a weekend.

[Mike]

Was he whittling sticks to make fire?

[Dan]

I did, yeah. It was awesome. I stayed in his basement, which is like, kind of like my basement, where it's just like nothing but like a game zone thing. It's just. It's just game shit everywhere. And he had a pulled out couch and I just stayed down there and it was like a cool, like, it was like stay in a fun college apartment or something. And I had the floor to myself. Yeah, I had a bathroom and everything. Minardi came over, we went to see wrestling, we went to bars. Went to a really great place called sixteen Bit in Cleveland, which is like a barcade. But, you know, there's like a million barcades now. And they're all like kind of like the same kind of dingy. Ish. They all got kind of that same vibe. This had like a really kind of. I don't know how to describe interior decoration stuff, but it was just like sharp. It was sharply put together. And they had all these bar games. They had bocce ball. They had this new one where I'd never seen before, where you throw these. These circles at a circle on the wall and there's hooks on it. Does it sound familiar?

[Mike]

Are you on the. Is it on a string?

[Dan]

No, it's like a big ass dartboard. It's like the biggest dartboard you ever saw and you're throwing rubber hoops at it.

[Mary]

Ring toss.

[Mike]

No, that's with the bottles, right?

[Dan]

That's a carnival game.

[Mary]

Yeah, I feel like you're describing ring toss.

[Dan]

No, hang on, I'm. Let me google ring toss here.

[Mary]

Hoops.

[Dan]

No, no, this is. No, this is on the wall. The big dartboard on the wall. Ring toss looks to be on the ground.

[Mike]

Jake, Dan was just hammered and he was on the floor trying to play.

[Dan]

That's why. What are you tossing rings? But it's. Goddamnit. I don't know what to google, so.

[Mike]

I love video games, but if you put like yard games in my vicinity, I will go to those 10 times out of 10.

[Dan]

Yeah. And so we did all. We did the fake ring toss thing, we did botch ball. They had duck pin bowling where it's the like short like bowling alley with the pins on the strings that go back in. It had this tiny little cage where you could like put your legs in and play soccer on like a tiny soccer field in a cage. But then it also had like a billion arcade games and they all on free play and everything and brewery stuff everywhere and like fun cocktails. That place was fucking great. I've been to a million barcades, but that's 16 bit in Cleveland was maybe the best I've ever been to.

[Mary]

What were you doing in Cleveland?

[Dan]

SummerSlam WWE was there and it's like, well, you know, Minardi and Grubb both live near there and not a lot of excuses to go to Cleveland. There's not really like game stuff out there. So it's like, well, fuck, let's go to a wrestling thing with my friends. So I went out for the weekend and it was just a blast. Great time.

[Mary]

Did you go to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame?

[Dan]

Did not, no.

[Mary]

We did number one claim to fame.

[Dan]

We thought about it. We thought about it on one of those afternoons, but then we just watched Grubb try to set an NES speedrun record on Mario 1. Which is pretty much the same as the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, right?

[Mary]

Yeah, the Olympics of rock and roll.

[Dan]

Yeah. We literally were like sitting around and we had like several hours and it was like, should we go to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame? And we're like, well, we have time before SummerSlam and it is right next door. But then we all just decided to Sit around and watch grub play Mario. Which was nice. It was very nice.

[Mary]

It is hard to justify.

[Dan]

Nobody did much better than I did.

[Mike]

No.

[Mary]

I've been to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, so I'm from Columbus, which isn't too far away. And so we used to go to Cleveland for like a couple things. Not often though, because there's not really a lot of good reasons to go to Cleveland. But I went once for a film festival and I remember doing Rock and Roll hall and Fame there.

[Dan]

Did you like it?

[Mike]

Festival?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Dan]

What was the coolest thing there?

[Mary]

I don't think I really was stoked about anything, but I was also probably like 15 and not very wise to rock and roll then.

[Dan]

And like dad drove out there once just to go there, like from Kansas and spent like two whole days at the hall of Fame. Like he's the guy that like reads every plaque and just like takes his damn time at every museum. But he loved it.

[Mary]

It's a memorabilia place, right? So it's like if you want to see the scarf or like the boa that Jimi Hendrix wore while he was at the Palooza, then that's the place that you go. But you know, you have to be really interested in artifacts from that era. Lots of guitars, lots.

[Mike]

They have like a Hall of Guitars, right?

[Mary]

They do, and it does look nice. I just don't think I had the awareness at the time that I went to really appreciate it.

[Dan]

One thing I've learned is just boomer catnip argument is they love it when hip hop acts get inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame.

[Mary]

Right?

[Dan]

Yeah, that is something.

[Mike]

Oh, a lot.

[Dan]

Like, you know, I think like Eminem's in there, run DMC and you know, Dr. Dre and Snoop, I think, I think they're in there. But it's just I've seen many 60 plus year old men talk. Well, you wouldn't put Led Zeppelin in the Rap hall of Fame. And it's like they put every classic rock band in there already. They need to stay open and keep doing a show. What do you expect, you know? Yes. They have a business to run.

[Mike]

I wonder if those people who got inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame actually cared or wanted to be. Because there's a hip hop, it's in New York, it's much smaller. But there's like a Hip Hop hall of Fame too.

[Dan]

Oh, sure. Yeah. I want to go back there because I really did have a great time and I would go to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame if I went back. But honestly I was super impressed by Cleveland. It was just very much it Midwest City. And I've learned that I just between, you know, Kansas City, Chicago, Minneapolis, there's just a certain vibe to a Midwest city that I like a lot. Like I don't like the rural parts of the Midwest as much but you know, a mid sized Midwestern city is what I'm used to.

[Mike]

We grew up in Kansas with like Kansas City and like right sort of there like aspiring to it for a bit and then going to college in Lawrence and like I think Kansas City being there the whole time I think is kind of. That's how I felt about Syracuse being five hours from New York City. We were always kind of looking up to New York City. So yeah, we just never went there.

[Dan]

It was just, we were always just in the. We were suburban as hell. It was Johnson County, Kansas. It was just like that's where all the, you know, suburban kids went to school basically. So yeah, what until that extra life trip I did a couple of weeks ago where I was like actually staying downtown and Kansas City's like come pretty far and since I left in oh9. But yeah, yeah, Midwest cities, good stuff.

[Mary]

They're not bad. There's a whole bunch of them over there. I got, I don't think I have too many family left in Ohio but man, the next time you do a trip to the ye olde Ohio I might come with you. I like that kind of stuff. It's been a while since I've been. And I got, I got some, I got some family still left in the Columbus area which isn't really that far away at all.

[Dan]

Nice. Yeah. Who was. Somebody was telling me that like oh yeah, isn't Cleveland like the one big city in Ohio? And I was like, well there's Cleveland, there's Columbus, there's Cincinnati. Like I always thought of it as like the three cities were the big ones.

[Mary]

That's right. I think that's true.

[Mike]

Columbus I've heard good things about. People were like flocking there 10 years ago before like Denver became the new hotspot. I don't know what it is now, but I know Columbus for a while was attracting a lot of like young professionals.

[Mary]

I heard that too because the, I think the house prices skyrocketed 1, 1 general span of years where they were just like our houses that used to be like 125k for like a really decent house or all of a sudden like 250, 300k. And it changed the Vibe. Right. Because the same thing happened to Portland, which is, like, Portland is really rad. But one of the things that made it so cool was that, you know, you could sell turnips on the street and totally functionally afford a house over here. And I just feel like that's so much harder now with all the people who have moved here that have raised the median house price, and you kind of lose your luster a little bit. You lose that value. Add that people love about you so much that it's weird and eclectic.

[Dan]

Yeah, I know that feeling of, like, when a city is really cool and you almost wonder, like, hey, don't tell anyone. Like, let's keep it this way. Let's, you know. We don't want a bunch of people moving in here and ruining it.

[Mary]

I don't want all these normies ruining it. Shut up. Tell them it sucks. Yeah, you gotta find the secret.

[Mike]

Hoboken sucks. It fucking. It's the worst.

[Dan]

I hate Minneapolis.

[Mike]

Hoboken's a shithole. Minneapolis sucks, too.

[Dan]

Yep. Shitty city.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Mike]

Portland is. Portland is dick for dick city.

[Dan]

What they should call it.

[Mary]

That is what they call it.

[Mike]

Board Lynn.

[Dan]

Yeah, but.

[Mike]

Yeah, no, it's. The Midwest is great. What else did I do? I feel like I did a lot since I saw you. I had barbecue. Speaking of Kansas City, I had barbecue on Friday. Where? In Red Hook. At Hometown Barbecue.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's where. Yeah. The proposal. Right?

[Mike]

Yeah. The. Around. No, I mean, that's where the wedding was. The proposal was on Cape Cod, but yes, that's where, like, one of our first dates was.

[Dan]

Right? First date. That's what it was. Yeah. I remember referencing it in the speech. Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah. And I. For old times sake. It was our. It was our engageiversary. We didn't really realize until we were on our way over, so I did the whole pretended a beef rib was a phone bit.

[Dan]

Oh, nice. Nice.

[Mike]

She still loved it just as much.

[Dan]

Nice.

[Mike]

But that barbecue is good. If you're in New York and you're looking for, they've got those places in Midtown and Flatiron, like, Hill country.

[Dan]

I like that place.

[Mike]

Something. Those are fine. I will say, if you're, like, from the Midwest or you're from, like, the Carolinas or Texas and you're looking for. I'm not going to claim it's on par with any of those, but, I mean, it's. It's good. It's Billy Dernie, who also owns this place called Red Hook Tavern, which I will say, hands down, is the best burger in all of New York, at least the places I've eaten burgers. So, I mean, take that with a grain of salt.

[Dan]

I'm obviously partial to Kansas City barbecue, but like, barbecue is kind of like pizza in that way where it's like, look, it's going to be pizza, it's going to be good. You know, a barbecue sandwich pretty much anywhere is going to be good. Like there's going to be better options if you want to get very particular. But like, it's going to be good.

[Mike]

We've got to go to hometown next time you're. It makes sense. It's kind of a trek to get to Red Hook, as you guys know. But like, I'm curious what you think of it. Because it's good barbecue. We like it a lot. Nice.

[Dan]

I'm not picky.

[Mike]

Joe's is really good when you that one time.

[Dan]

Not a picky man.

[Mary]

I mean, I don't think, I don't look at you, actually. I think you are very picky with your food. You're just not picky in terms of how high quality is. You're picky what you won't eat.

[Dan]

That's fair. Okay. I guess I am picky in that, like, oh, I don't want onions on this thing or I won't have mustard or pickles or whatever. But like not everything has to be.

[Mary]

A $40 slab of meat or if it's a 350 slab of rib.

[Dan]

I think I'm kind of like the way Mike is with like drinking where it's like, yes, he likes very fine wines and very nice liquors and stuff like that and cocktails and stuff. But I've shotgun Bud Lights with Mike, you know, he's not going to turn his nose. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. So he's like, he's not going to be snobby about it. Like, I feel like I'm the same way where it's like, look, we love going to some like, oh, James Beard award winning restaurant and getting like a super nice meal and stuff. And I can, I feel like I can really appreciate it. But also I can go to Arby's and I'm going to really enjoy that meal, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of kind of a sharp left turn. But I taught you how to shotgun beer at a Halloween party when I was interning at Game Informer.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Mike]

Which unfortunately, I don't know if people saw the news, but GameStop finally pulled the plug. I know it's kind of wondering when it would happen and still Absolutely sucks. And a lot of super cool people lost their jobs. But yeah, that's where I met you, Dan. I met Tim Turry, I met a lot of future friends. I literally have my current job because I met Matt Burt's at Game Informer back when he was managing editor there and I was a little 21 year old, so.

[Dan]

And look at everyone that was working there when we were. When you were there as an intern. And they have gone off to like pretty much everyone that was there when you were there left prior to GameStop shutting it down and went out to Microsoft, went out to Sony, went out to like a million different places. They are all over. Yeah, they are all over the industry. And God, they really curated an incredible staff over the years. But before my time, during, after, man, that place was really, really fantastic. And yeah, Mike, you and I have the personal history there. Like without Game Informer, we don't meet. This podcast doesn't exist. I don't go to Giant Bomb, I don't meet Bianca. I don't. Tim Turi was my best man in my wedding. It's like friendships. The reason I moved back here were friends like Ben Hansen that, you know, like, it was, it was such a special place. It is the entire reason I do what I do and I've lived the life I live is because I subscribed when I was nine years old. So everyone knew this is how it ended, how it was going to end. You know, it was run by GameStop. GameStop's days were numbered. I remember when I got hired in 2009, I remember thinking like picturing that doomsday clock and being like, okay, we're a couple minutes to midnight here. Hopefully I can get my shit in and get a resume. You know, enough time here to actually, you know, like, brag about working here and get a job. And it lasted way longer than anyone expected it to. GameStop is still, in spite of itself, still around. But as they are circling the drain and have been for a long time, they're taking cost cutting measures. And of course this shitty company that's always been shitty had to do it in the most kind of petty and needlessly cruel way where it's just like, okay, no warning, middle of making the next issue, let's just pull everyone into a meeting. Let's do an AI written goodbye note that nobody on the staff signed off on. Let's nuke the website. So we've got so many years, so many, like, thankfully, well, there are elements they haven't got to yet. But all the articles and everything are gone off the Internet now. Yeah, nuke the Twitter account. Locked the fucking doors to the office. So all that game preservation and history that are there, that if anyone's ever seen videos of the Vault and things like that, it's really the most incredible collection of game history I've ever seen in my life. That is God knows, I mean, you can probably assume what GameStop is going to do with it. And. Yeah, so, I mean, look, that's the negative stuff. We've known this is going to happen for a long time, but yeah, so many just industry legends have come through there and then the staff that were still there at the end and are now looking for jobs, you know, there's. If you look at, well, shit, no, they deleted the Twitter account. Look at, look at Brian Shay's Twitter. Look at Kyle Hilliard's Twitter. Look at Alex Van Akins. You know, there are a lot of people that have posted the masthead of everyone, not just the writers and people that appeared on videos and podcasts, but also the layout people, you know, Lille and Margaret, you know, people that worked there for many, many years that are now looking for jobs. Yeah, it's. Man, I. I had a lot of thoughts this weekend. You know, I was sitting in Grub's basement and I got a text from. From someone that former editor, and. And it's like, well, shit, there it is. It happened. And yeah, yeah, I don't know what else there is to say. It was kind of that last bastion of the games media that I grew up with that made me want to go into this line of work. You know, they were the last Us magazine. They. Yeah, and you know what? I was glad that I was there during the Pivot to, you know, it was this old print media magazine that I was there when, you know, they start doing podcasts and streams and we got to do fun stuff like Replay and, you know, Hanson and Tim doing the podcast. And it's. I feel like despite being like, you know, oh, a dinosaur, some might say this old brand from 1991, they stayed around and they stayed relevant. And like we were saying with the staff, like, you know, talk about some great names that have gone on to do great things and I'm confident that the staff that were just laid off are all going to go do great things as well. So.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they survived for so long. There are a lot of good sites that struggle to survive under good owners, or at least, like, maybe not good owners, but, like, more benevolent than GameStop. I think you could argue so. It's absolutely just a testament to their flexibility and versatility over a Game Informer throughout many years.

[Dan]

Yeah, I don't envy the staff that had to work there in recent years because when I was there from 09 to 14, the cool thing was we never had to fucking talk to GameStop at least. Like, you know, McNamara, I think, dealt with like all of the communication with, you know, Grapevine Texas, and he kind of shielded us from that. You know, we, you know, GameStop never got involved and told us to change, review, score or said some edict about, like, oh, we need to do a feature on this thing. We're trying to push. GameStop never fucking talked to us on the ground. We wrote whatever we wanted to. We made the magazine we wanted to make. Andy shielded us from that stuff. And from my understanding, it's, you know, in recent years, as GameStop has kind of spiraled downward, they did get more hands on in a bad way. And that's when you started seeing, like, there were a couple rounds of, like, rough layoffs. So, you know, people getting laid off when they're out of town on work trips and things like that. It's happened a couple of times now. So, yeah, I don't envy having to work with GameStop above them because they have always been dumb as fuck as a company. Like, just petty, shitty, dumb, bad company. But at least when I was there, we didn't really have to see it, you know, unless we walked into it. Like, they made bad fuck. Like, you know, when I was there, it was obvious that downloading was going to be the future and everything. And so they were flailing around. They're like, we're going to open up all these Simply Mac stores and we're going to do what we did with GameStop, where we can buy and sell used iPhones and iPads. And that didn't do shit. And then it's like we bought. We think flash games are the future. We, you know, we, we bought Congregate. They're a flash game portal. We'll publish Hollow Knight. No, that didn't. I'm sorry.

[Mike]

Yes, Even in his GameStop era, Game Informer Lament, he had to throw that.

[Dan]

And even now that I like Hollow Knight. Yeah, but no, it's just they flailed. They published an insomniac game at one point. I don't know if you remember Song of the Deep.

[Mike]

Song of the Deep, Yeah, I remember that.

[Dan]

Yeah, they were clearly flailing. And then the fucking memes talk. Shit. Shit happened. And clearly no one knew how to turn that into anything of note that would help the company. It just, if anything got their name in headlines for a little bit. But yeah, yeah, they, they never figured it out. They're not going to figure it out. Like the company will stay on a death spiral and selling some shitty Funko pops in their, you know, reduced amount of brick and mortar stores is not going to turn the tide. So, you know, fuck them, but sober.

[Mary]

But I think like there's so much to be said for the impact they had on a whole generation of gamers and how what we're enjoying now and the content that people like now is being created by the people who grew up with Game Informer. Yeah, and I think back to like, God, like 12 years ago when I was getting started, one of my very first meetings was at a Game Informer and I thought it was the greatest opportunity of my career was to be in a Game Informer and try and get coverage for one of the games I was doing PR for back in the day. And just being in their hallowed walls was a huge deal. And how, how honored I was and how much everybody there cared about every article and everything that they made. It was made with blood, sweat and tears and just an unbelievable amount of dedication and love. And yes, it is sad and I do think a lot of those people will be able to find jobs because they're hardworking people and I'm sure they will, they will find something else. But I think it's a dark day that we have a lot of money in games media. There is still a lot to be done when it comes to like people who want to watch this content, they want to enjoy it, but a publication like that doesn't have its place anymore. So it's just a time and a place. And I think that's sad, but we will basically be the children of that content for a long time.

[Dan]

Yeah. And how long have we talked about how much games media has changed with all the layoffs and stuff in the last five, 10 years? And I used to always say, okay, how many places can you actually make a full time living doing games media? You know, like outside of the Patreon and individual streamer route. And I used to always say, okay, there's IGN, there's GameSpot, there's a game Informer, there's Polygon, there's Kotaku, you know, and like now it's just less and less every day it seems, you know, and you know, now there's just a few behemoths and then there are some places, you know, just trying to scrape on by and then everything else has kind of gone. The Patreon, you know, individual streamer route and everything. And, you know, Game Informer being the oldest of the old guard, just the most, like, legendary name in that space. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's going to be a huge, huge void left behind for sure.

[Mary]

They deserved it. There's sometimes, like, I'm just so. They deserve to be here. They deserved to have that spot just because of the legacy. Right? It's just like, just leave them alone. Let them quietly have their little magazine that people don't read anymore and enjoy their life because they've earned it. It's kind of like when you're, like, retired and you're like, you don't want to do anything and you're grumpy all the time, and they're like, whatever, he's earned it. Leave him alone. That's how I feel about Game of Thrones.

[Dan]

Do whatever he wants.

[Mary]

Yeah, he can do whatever he wants. You leave. You leave him alone. Whereas there's Giant Corpse now making massive purchases and pivots that suck and are fucking people over. Like, well, I know we don't usually talk about the news, but if we're talking about this, like Ziff Davis buying Humble Games and then just shuttering it is such horseshit.

[Dan]

And several sites also, Euro Gamer, a.

[Mike]

Bunch of people a few months ago.

[Mary]

And yeah, a handful, yeah, they made extremely successful games. Unpacking is a very successful game. Most people know what unpacking is because it was so popular and you still fumbled it and you still shuttered it without anything for any of these people. This game publisher that you purchased, even though you work in media, who was there for the purchase? Who was there for the fumbling of the actual business, who was there for shuttering it and leaving all these people for nothing. It's just such. It's just such a bad decision that impacted so many good people's lives. Not to mention all the incredible games that should have been coming out that are now, like, Adrift and we don't know what will happen to them. Ziff.

[Dan]

Yeah. And I mean, you look at LinkedIn these days, if you're in the games industry and every post is, hey, I just lost my job with Bungie. I just lost my job from Humble Games. I just like, like, every, like, I.

[Mary]

Have two decades of experience, I have shipped 14 titles and I've applied for.

[Dan]

10 places in the last week and haven't heard back from Any of them. And yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fucking rough.

[Mary]

The talent that we will lose from this type of situation is what should really scare everybody because we all have the same North Star, which is we love playing good games. And when you do not have consistent roles for people where they can provide for their families and grow in this industry, they will leave. They will go and work for the Chase Banks or wherever it is that doesn't lay them off every two fucking years after they work extremely hard to complete a project. And we will lose talent that make the games that we hold so dear. And so like in five to 10 years we're playing some fucking garbage cookie cutter game that Triple A is just pissed out. Again, we can all remember there was lots of opportunities for indies. This year we're playing indie after indie, but we keep like shuttering these studios and harming really talented people.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's a bad landscape right now. It's. It really is rough. I mean, I guess all we can do is celebrate the work of those that have been shut down and I guess mourn the projects in future. Things that are, that are not going to see the light of day. And I don't know how long that's sustainable.

[Mike]

You know, I remember my first GI issue. It was Champions of the Norath Realms of Everquest. Not a good game in high.

[Dan]

I've got almost the full run out there. Is that like an 03ish or something?

[Mike]

Yeah, it was still like long before the redesign. Oh yeah, it was still old school. Like so much text on the COVID Half naked. El woman, never forget. I didn't. I mean, I kept the magazine in my nightstand for years and years because I love reading about Champions the Norath. That's the only reason why. But yeah, it was, it was fun. I. And that was like. It was so weird too because from the time I like, it dawned on me. Oh, right. I've been reading these people for nine years, some of these people. And it's only just now occurring to me that, like, they do this for a living. Like, I guess I could try to do that. That's. That was my weird. Like it was 2011, I remember, and I was like, Arkham City was about to come out and I asked, just on a whim, I asked the local, like, free newspaper, not the school newspaper or the actual, like paid newspaper. It was the Arkansas Free Weekly. I was like, hey, could I write. Do you need anybody to write a review? They're like, sure, we'll give you 50 bucks. Which in college, like Writing a video game review after one I had already played anyway was crazy. So I was like, sure. And then of course, I modeled how I spoke about games on how Dan Ryker had been talking about games, Tim Turret had been talking about games. You know, the people at that at Game Farmer had been reading. And then from there, I was just hooked. I was like, like, well, I guess I could transfer over to the journalism side of school. It's not gonna. It's not gonna hurt. And then, you know, got the internship. And then from there, now here we find ourselves and I'm on a. On a. I'm on the podcast with, like, two people I have always admired. So it's, It's. It sucks. And it's like, yeah, everything's gonna evolve and change. Like, mainstream news is also not doing all that well in terms of, like, print and magazines.

[Dan]

I mean, cable. I mean, primetime entertainment everywhere has been fucked since the Internet started, basically, and they still haven't figured it out, even people.

[Mike]

But the people that are, you know, like, working for that Internet machine are not. This is not every place. And I've worked at some great places that are doing some awesome stuff. I, you know, I love Polygon, I love Gamespot, but it's still just like. It's crazy to think, you know, back in the day getting that physical magazine Game Informer is still like the one I'm nostalgic for. So it is. It's crazy. It's gone. And I watched so much fucking replay. I didn't listen to podcasts as much, but I watched a lot of replay. And that was like a weekly ritual for me.

[Dan]

I mean, that was 100% where I cut my teeth as far as, like, being a personality and doing videos and playing games while talking to a microphone like that. That was incredible for me. You talked about when you first, you know, realized you could do it for a job. And that's a hundred percent how I based my entire life was. I was nine and I wanted to know the fatalities in Mortal Kombat. So I went into. I can't remember if it was Funko Land or video. It must have been Funko Land because it was exclusive to there. And I saw they had Mortal Kombat on the COVID and I just got in the Genesis one and it said like, oh, you know, fatalities codes or whatever. And so I bought it opened up and like, they had the about the editors section at the beginning. And, you know, so it's like, oh, here's Andy McNamara, here's Andy Reiner, and Just with their pictures and it's like.

[Mike]

And their hands are.

[Dan]

Yeah, the raging gamer and. Yeah, the game ombre and stuff. Neighborhood gamer, the game dandy. Yeah, all that stuff. Yeah. And I'm just looking at these pictures of these dudes. I'm like, these are adults. And wait, this is their job. They're talking about Mortal Kombat. Like, are you fucking kidding me? So like at 9, I had that like, well, okay, I just need to. To move my entire life in this direction. So like, it's so weird talking about like a brand, a company or whatever as being such a, like, important part of someone's life. But like, literally from the age of nine, Game Informer was like the biggest fucking thing, the biggest through line in my entire life from like shooting that commercial for them when I was 18 and meeting those guys for the first time. The first issue I'm in is the Jade Empire issue. There's a picture in GI Spy of somebody in a shark suit playing Aquaman for the Xbox. That was me at 18 shooting that commercial up there. And I put on a shark suit that I bought from the Mall of America and I played Aquaman for the bit. And then years and years later, after bugging Andy at E3 all those years, you know, he takes a chance on me in 09, worked there and like, so that's what's crazy. He's like, I talked to Andy. I had a great. I caught up with him at Summer Games Fest. And right before I moved to Minnesota, I had like a 45 minute conversation with him about bikes because I wanted to get into biking around Minnesota. This is a guy that, at 9 years old, I saw his picture in a magazine and I thought, I want to do that. And here I am 30 years over, 30 years later, and we're just, you know, I moved to Minnesota because of his magazine. Now I'm talking about bikes and hanging out with him at Summer Games Fest and just like, man, what a fucking. Just opening that magazine, that tiny little thing in 19. I guess it was 1993 or 1994. It started in 1991. But anyway, yeah, it's had more of an impact on my life than pretty much anything, you know.

[Mike]

So I started in 1991 as well. The magazine was as old as me. That's true. And have I told you the story really quick before we move on? But have I told you where I was when I heard that I got the internship? I applied for? I applied for the first, very first internship because that coincided. It could not have Been more perfect. Like, serendipitous timing. I decided I kind of wanted to do this. And then I wrote an Arkham City review. And then the next day, Game Informer on the website said, hey, we're doing an internship program. I was like, what the fuck? So I. Or it wasn't the next day. I'm exaggerating. It was like several months later. But right around when I decided, I was like, I'm gonna apply for the summer one. I didn't get it. Matt Miller did respond saying, hey, I like your stuff. Keep applying. You know, I think local people got hired for that one. And, you know, they. They moved in and then they started to expand it farther because people were willing to. This was an unpaid internship, mind you.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah, they all were. At least while I was there. Yeah.

[Mike]

And ironically, do you know where I was when I heard that I got the internship? To Game Informer, where it was inside a Gamestop. Like, I got. Matt Miller called me and asked me if I wanted to come. I was like, in Syracuse, New York, or I was back on summer vacation from University of Arkansas. I was like, yeah, of course. And then it's like, I'm not going to make any money. I'm going to somehow move to Minneapolis. First three and a half months and. And then I remember walking up to the counter, like, beaming, and I forgot what used game I bought because I got a game. I was like, I gotta commemorate it. And oddly enough, I don't remember the game, but I remember the guy who always worked there, and he's like, what are you so happy about? And I was like, I just got an internship at Game Informer. So he was like. He was so fucking happy for me because I used to go in there all the time.

[Dan]

Oh, man, that's awesome. When you were there.

[Mary]

Such a dream. You're like the luckiest kid in the world.

[Dan]

Oh, it's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. It's the golden ticket. Yeah, it's. You were there during the office days, you know, obviously way pre Covid and everything. That office was fucking incredible. Which reminds me, as of today that we're recording, Ben Hansen over at Minmax just put up a video where it's just a ton of footage from the old office. But it's also earlier this year, we all kind of knew this was coming at some point. And so Hansen kind of organized a thing where him, me, Alex Van Aken, and Leo Vader went to the current office that no one's actually worked at. It's basically just like A storage facility for, like, all the old statues and games and stuff like that, which, you know, that's, again, gonna go to wherever the fuck gamestop wants it to go to. But it's just this really cool walk down memory lane of all these things interspersed with a bunch of old footage from the office. And Hanson, God bless him, doing incredible work again. He's gonna do, like, I don't know if he said a month or. He's basically doing a giant of Game Informers history. I mean, Min Max was founded after that first big round of layoffs at Game Informer. And so now, you know, like, tonight was the first epis. First video he put up. But I know he's planning a bunch of stuff to kind of memorialize Game Informer. So I know I talk about Hansen a lot and Minmax and all the great work he's doing over there, but if you have any interest in this type of thing we're talking about, Hansen's going to put together a bunch of great stuff with a bunch of those alumni, myself included. So definitely check out what he's doing at Minmax.

[Mike]

Yeah, for sure. And Hansen, you know, is a friend of Fire Escape, comes on the show. I'm sure won't, you know, won't be too long before he's subbing in for somebody.

[Dan]

Yep, Yep. Mary, when did you go there? Where? I'm wondering if I had. If there's any chance I was there.

[Mary]

I might have an email. Hold on.

[Dan]

Oh, wow.

[Mike]

Was that game Former Australia?

[Mary]

Let's see.

[Dan]

Oh, right. Because, yeah, we did have a game in former Australia where it was, like, like virtually identical, but they would, like, replace the Madden spread with, like, a soccer thing.

[Mary]

I think I was there 2012.

[Dan]

I would have been there in Minneapolis.

[Mary]

I wonder. I don't think you were there.

[Dan]

I was working there in 2012. What game was it?

[Mary]

It was. Sorry, I'm, like, looking for the email again.

[Dan]

Was it for McNamara?

[Mary]

No, this was back when I worked at Zoo Games. Remember the Bad Zoo, the Bad publisher.

[Dan]

Oh, sure.

[Mary]

And we had a couple indie games that we were trying to get coverage for.

[Dan]

Huh.

[Mary]

I don't think we didn't get anything, but we were trying. You know what I mean? Like, we were, like, knocking on doors and being like, you might like this. And then when people were like, no, we don't want to read about Eminem's racing. So maybe you were like, the one who, like, didn't let me in.

[Dan]

Probably. Yeah. I was the one who vetoed everything. Yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

You were like, These games are bad and she sucks and she can't come back here.

[Dan]

No, I would have been like, I like M&Ms. I love branding. Right. I love kart racing.

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah, it's cool, essentially with the crap I was peddling back then. But yeah, I have like, I have a couple emails from that era from like various people that I tried to keep in touch for with. Yeah, just like a. Yeah, I'm like reading one about the. Yeah. The Dust Force Game Informer has expressed interest. 2013. Yeah.

[Dan]

So yeah, I left in 2014. So.

[Mary]

Oh my God. We might have been in the same circles, but yeah, I don't remember meeting you. I feel like I would have remembered that.

[Dan]

Sure. I think I met you and yeah, when I went to cbs.

[Mary]

But I mean I was a kind of a. I think what's important to remember is like during that time as well, I was a PR person. So my name had no weight or value. I was like, I am here with a developer and I would love for you to talk to them about their video game. And so I was a. I was just getting things to you, so nobody really knew who I was.

[Dan]

That was kind of how it always went because it was like, you know, Minneapolis is where Target and Best Buy are located. So it was always companies when like they would bring in some developers or they would have people from the publisher doing their rounds at like Target and Best Buy to figure out like how many units they would buy or whatever. And then they would stop by Game Informer to show off the game. It would always be like one PR person be like two developers, be like the creative director and someone else. Or they'd be like vying for a cover or something. It's like I've told the story about when Randy Pitchford made me and McNamara play through all of Duke Nukem forever in a hotel room once, you know, that's him trying to get the COVID for that, you know. So yeah, they would always swing by and basically make their pitch and Andy would be the, you know, the American Idol judge or whatever. So.

[Mary]

Yeah, stressful. Yeah, I feel like those are really wild times. Something that like similar to your guys big break was my ability to go on this journey to go to a couple places and pitch these games. And I went to San Francisco as well to like pitch them to IGN and GameSpot and I met people at Gamespot as this agency and I was like, yes, I really do love games. Like, let's keep in touch. Here's my card. Later on we. We keep in touch. And years later they're like, hey, we have a contractor position possible at E3. And I was like, I will drop everything for this. And I did. But I met them like four years earlier doing that PR run. So, yeah, it was like all connected. It just took a long time for me to like, get my foot in the door.

[Dan]

Yeah. And it's just incredible. Like, you know these places that they just seems like, okay, first job in the industry or whatever, but then you think about just the sliding doors type way life is where. Oh. Because I got this job that was just. Oh, you know, I was 23, 24 or whatever, got this job and oh, I met this person. I met this person and I met this person. And you just look at all the different ways that, oh, just my first job or whatever just affects your entire life and social circle and career. It's. Yeah. And to me and so many others, Game Informer was just the absolute biggest.

[Mike]

So I got my job at Gamespot in, in part because the person who recommended me was dating someone I met at the internship.

[Dan]

Oh, wow. Wow.

[Mike]

Which is just another weird roundabout like.

[Mary]

Yeah, whatever gets you there.

[Dan]

I'll never forget when I got the job offer. I was working at the Garmin GPS tech support place in Kansas just call center, you know, and they were so. Look, I love Game Informer. Game Informer never paid shit while I was there or before. I don't know what they're like more recently, but I was making 30k a year at the call center. I was a college graduate and Game Informer offered me the job. And they did tell me like, hey, heads up, it doesn't pay that much. And again, it's not like I don't put that on the heads of Game Informer. I put that on GameStop, you know. And so it was like a $1,000 a year pay cut. And I remember calling my dad, so excited about like, oh my God, my dream job. This is it. This is it. I got the offer. How much to Pay? Well, it's 29. How much make now? 39,000. Well, you can't. Don't, don't ever take a pay cut. I was like, dad, I understand that in theory, but this is a very extreme circumstance for me. It's literally my dream job. I will take. I would pay a thousand dollars a year to go work my dream job and fucking can Review a Portal 2 instead of help this old lady acquire satellites on her newbie device, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah. Plus at that point, correct me if I'm wrong, But did you think you would ever even, like, at that point you're like, all right, I'm going to be a game informer the rest of my life. I'm going to try to be eic, and I'm not going to. You're not thinking about like that as a stepping stone?

[Dan]

No, absolutely not. I literally, when I walked in there, I remember thinking like, I want to take over this place. I want to become editor in chief. I want this to be my life's, you know, I want this to be the rest of my life life. And I realized pretty quick. I got there and like a few months in, I remember going to Andy McNamara's 40th birthday party and thinking like, hang on, he's not really that. I don't know he's retiring anytime soon.

[Mike]

Yeah, he's not. It's not like the president is 71.

[Dan]

It's not like Andy McMahon was an 80 year old dude. I was like, seems pretty cool.

[Mary]

I got to get this old guy out of here. It's time for some new blood.

[Dan]

He did leave. I would just have to wait a little bit longer. But yes, I did go in there thinking like, yes, I want this to be my. This. In no way did I see it as like the stepping stone type thing. It's like I moved. I fucking loved the city. I loved everyone I worked with. I loved the work itself. Yeah. I would have stayed there forever if it had continued to be a viable business, you know?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And even like when I. I left in 2014 and it's like, I didn't know, like, obviously I love Giant Bomb and everything, but I had never listened to or read Giant Bomb. It wasn't like Game Informer. I spent my whole life revering the Sprint and everything. It was just, I'd gotten to know the Giant Bomb guys. I like those guys. And it seemed like they were more equipped for kind of the future of games media where it's like, okay, they're really big on podcasts and streaming and stuff like that. I have more faith in that being a way forward than as much as I fucking love this brand and everything. I had no faith in GameStop even back then. And I thought at some point the house of cards was going to fall down. I didn't know it would last this long. But yeah, that's the only reason I left is just because I thought the reality of the business was like, like not going to go in their favor. Which. Yeah. And then to no detriment of like, you know, they continued doing Great work. Until the very end. And it was. It was. It went down for the exact reasons everybody could have expected.

[Mike]

Yeah, Everybody listening. When you get the chance, pour one out for Game Informer and say something good about them on social media, etc. We will remember them for a long time. And I have all my issues here in the closet as well. So much. I bust those out soon.

[Dan]

Yep. I got almost a full run out there. Yeah.

[Mary]

Godspeed, Game Informer. You were a good one. We appreciate you.

[Mike]

All right, do you guys want to talk about happy video game stuff?

[Dan]

Yeah. Yeah, sure.

[Mike]

Dana, Mary, you know how hard it is to get me to shut up about wine.

[Mary]

Oh, he will not shut up about wine.

[Dan]

That's true.

[Mike]

Well, guess what? First Leaf is here to help me out even more. Because it's getting toward the end of summer, it's still super hot. But no matter what the occasion is, I think there's always a good wine to fit it. Whether it's bringing some cabernet franc to your barbecue, whether it's having a nice Sauvignon blanc on a hot day, something crisp. There's always something. And First Leaf can help you out if you're new to wine or if you're experienced. Dan, tell em how well I know.

[Dan]

Whenever I'm hosting my big barbecues and my happy hours and my family dinners, I opt for First Leaf's fine wine upgrade. And that gets me a really special bottle that's sure to impress. Plus, if I need a little help, help picking out a wine that everyone will love, I can get free advice from First Leaf's wine concierge. It's a foolproof way to know you're getting the right wine for any and every occasion.

[Mary]

So get wines to sip and share all summer long. With first leaf. Go to tryfirstleaf.com fire escape to sign up and you'll get your first six hand picked bottles for just 44.95. That's try first leaf leaf.com/fire escape. Try first leaf.com/fire escape.

[Mike]

All right, before we move on to new stuff, I did play. Thank goodness you're here.

[Dan]

Ah, let's hear it.

[Mike]

I agree, it's very funny. Yeah, I think it's paced. Well, I beat it in like a sitting on a Saturday morning, which is great. I. There was a few times. Dan, the sexual on double entendre is everywhere.

[Dan]

Look, okay, I am willing to waive the flag that it's probably that I forgot them versus because like every time somebody brings something up, like what about the hot dog hole, it's like, oh, right, yeah. Or oh, what about the milk part? It's like, oh, right, yeah.

[Mike]

I think you also skipped over a very important facet of this game, which is that Matt Berry is a voice actor in it.

[Dan]

I don't like know who that is.

[Mike]

I didn't. From the IT crowd. What we do in the shadow, he's lazy. Neither Cravensworth. He's the guy, he's the gardener. And when you first meet him, he's got his back to the camera and he's just like doing something furiously to his crotch.

[Dan]

Oh, that I did not notice at all.

[Mike]

And then he turns around and he's trying to fix a hose and he's like, ahoy there. And it's just classic Matt Berry. He's like, something clogged up the work. See if you can get down there and squeeze something out. And then he puts it back in his pocket. And then you go under the tunnels and down the well and in the.

[Mary]

Tunnels with your little lemon head. How like last episode, Dan was like, oh, I didn't even think about that. It was a little sexual. And it's just like there's something clogging up the pipes. Why don't you get in there and see if you can squeeze it out for me.

[Dan]

Let me just give you.

[Mary]

You know what I mean? And Dan's like, oh, this is a nice little game for the children.

[Dan]

It's to show you the depths of how much things go over my head. Literally an hour before we started recording, I was making a microwave meal and I had a plastic film over the top. And I've had. I've been bit enough times where I go to grab it. The steam burns my hands. And so I put a fork in there to let the like lift the lid and let some steam out. And as I was doing that literally a couple hours ago, I thought, oh, let off some steam. Like, I only knew it as the like metaphor version, never as the like there would be a real thing behind it like, oh, it's based on letting steam out of something to like. I just knew it as like, oh, chill out, let off some steam. I never thought about the actual steam related thing. Does that make sense? Sense, yes.

[Mike]

But I think blow off some steam is from like coal engines, not microwave dinners.

[Dan]

Well, just generally getting the steam out of something in general. Right?

[Mike]

Yeah. It's pent up energy. Yeah.

[Dan]

I never thought about there would be a literal connotation to it. I thought it was just like a saying or something. In Commando? Yeah.

[Mary]

Did you think when somebody said they had to drain the lizard that they were going into the bathroom and taking the lizard and, like, squeezing it?

[Dan]

No, I. I know that's a pee pee thing. I get some of them. I think that's just a lot of them can fly over my head very easily. The one with the hose and the whacking off, that did not. Some of them. I forgot that one. I definitely didn't even register at all when I played it.

[Mike]

But it's still. It's super fun. I found myself getting so caught up in the jokes that I often forgot what my objective was supposed to be. Yeah, it's not like. It's not like an open world where you're going left and right, but there's definitely kind of that item trading sequence vibe to most of the game. It's like, all right, I gotta go unclog the pipes. Or the. What the hell's the word? What the hell's the word? I worked in restaurants. It's the line. The lines. I gotta go unclog the lines so the bartender can pour a beer for the alcoholic locksmith so he can go open the shop so I can get butter to let this person out of the sewer grate. And other times I got so caught up laughing hard that I forgot what they told me. And the game doesn't. If you go talk to that character again, they don't really repeat what you're supposed to be doing. They just say something like, gorgeous day out, isn't it, Chap? Don't forget to, like, button up if you go out.

[Dan]

Yeah. And there's no quest log. There's like, absolutely no, like, UI or anything, so. But it luckily, like, all these spaces are pretty small, and so you just gotta walk around and slap things for a while and you'll figure out where you need to go and more often.

[Mary]

Than not, slap a couple more things.

[Dan]

Just slap things and you'll see funny stuff if you're on your way to getting the thing.

[Mike]

So, yeah, those faces in this game are just funny on their own. I remember one of the earliest things they panned to your. The protagonist. And it's just.

[Dan]

Yeah, it sometimes just takes up the whole screen. It's just. God, the timing on so much stuff in the framing. Like, they understand comedy very well.

[Mary]

They do.

[Mike]

I love the fucking. The actual, like, live action, quick recordings that are on loop for the pause menu and the loading screens. What does it say in the pause menu? It. It doesn't say quit to Windows. It says Like, I've had enough of this or something.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's something very British.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, it's. No, that game's super fun. Absolute. Like, just quick one sitting gem that is just paced out really well. You might get, like, lost a few times, but there's so much. There's so many jokes laden into the environment that I never, like, got frustrated because there was a little, like a bit around every corner. But yeah, it's. It's. It's not really a game where you're like, okay, I gotta go get this done and then I'll do this. It's more just. You're kind of going with the flow and being this, like, buffoon around town.

[Mary]

Slapping, like, I never had any idea of what I was supposed to do. Like, at no time was I like, oh, yes, I need the key for the fence so that I can get the dish. It's just like, the whole time I'm like, I don't know. I'm going to slap this guy and I'm going to slap this girl, and I'm going to slap this ham again because I got to slap those hammy hams. I was always, like, starting chaos. It was very controlled experiment. I think what's so great about this is, like, how rare it is. How often are there games that are just essentially little joke machines for three hours? Like, never. Games do all sorts of things. They're entertaining, they make you think. Ems, some of them are about your dexterity. But how. How rare is it that it's like, this is just to make you laugh. That's its only purpose. It's stupid. Just laugh for three hours.

[Dan]

And it's even rarer that it's successful at that. It's actually funny, you know? You know, they. When you see a movie, there are certain movies where, you know, you're checking your watch, and there are certain ones where it just kind of flies by because you're super invested in it. I feel like there is kind of like an analog to that in games where it's like, even good games, it's like, all right, I got to get done this. This mission's a pain in the ass. Or I got to do an escort mission here. Okay, this thing here, I'm just kind of grinding the level up. Just, you know those things where it's the equivalent of checking your watch. This one three hours. At no point was I like, this quest sucks, or, I need to move on past this. I was just enjoying it for three hours. And then it ended before any of it. Got tired. It was just. I have no complaints about that game.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's super good. Glad I played it.

[Mary]

I'm glad we bullied you into finishing it. That's so that was super worth it.

[Mike]

You bullied me into playing it to begin with.

[Mary]

Yes, that's right. I did and I do it again.

[Mike]

We kind of came away from last episode with some homework. Dungeons of Hinterberg. I have played quite a bit of that game.

[Dan]

Played a little bit of it.

[Mike]

Very pleasantly surprised by that game. For those who don't know, just generally speaking structurally I guess it's a mix of of Zelda and Persona and there are some loot esque elements but not much. You're. It's kind of like Stardew Valley set up. You're just like on vac or you're getting away from your desk job and you arrive in this. It's an Austrian developer and it's based in the Austrian Alps. And you arrive in the town called Hinterberg. And I really appreciate this is a very dewy intro. There's a quick cutscene when you're in a taxi and then you get there and then the briefest of exposition. It's like everybody thought it was a hoax, then they thought it was a mass hallucination. All we know is 25 dungeons just landed in this place and then monsters were everywhere. So people go vacation in Hinterberg to like blow off steam and kill monsters and explore dungeons. And the dungeons are puzzle heavy with some rudimentary combat, I, I, I think is probably the best way to put it. But yeah, between dungeons you are also doing Persona stuff. Improving bonds with certain characters around town, improving your own stats. You can just forego a dungeon entirely on any given day and then go sit at a picnic table for the afternoon and increase your relaxation stat. I like it a whole lot. It's, I think, I don't want to assume anything but, but it's relatively lower budget I think shows compared to something a bit more polished. The combat can be a bit stilted, but overall the overall loop of this game is really compelling. I thought I would just play a dungeon in order to talk about it with you guys and then all of a sudden I'm on the sixth dungeon now.

[Dan]

Now let me ask a question here because I started it and I did the tutorial dungeon and yeah, the combat is fairly simple, but I did just start out out and then I got back to the town, I got the magic spell, the wrecking ball thing and I was like, oh, that's that's kind of a fun unique item. And then I started kind of talking to people. So I feel like I saw just the beginning of that loop where it's dungeon and then town stuff. Does it continue that way where it's like dungeon and like is each gimmick or each item is it tied like oh, this is the wrecking ball dungeon and then this is the blank dungeon. Or does it add like do you have that wrecking ball the whole game?

[Mike]

There's four. There's four areas that you can go to. So it's. It's not an open world. It's segment like an old school Zelda, like an ocarina or whatever. There are four biomes basically you can go to not counting the town. And in each of those, Mary, correct me if I'm wrong, you get a different duo of spells.

[Mary]

Two.

[Dan]

Got it.

[Mike]

The, the ranged RB or R1 and the L1. Which yeah, at first, like there's some clear correlations between like the bomb ability in Breath of the Wild and how they have you use the wrecking ball, which you can explode remotely by pressing it against again. But no, you get, you get some wind powers. In the second area, I'm not, I haven't gone. I just unlocked the third area. Cuz in each area there are like seven dungeons a piece. And you can repeat some if you want. I don't know why you would thus far maybe or something. But there's also other mini objectives in the world. Again, there are those places where you can upgrade your own stats. There are little side quests that pop up when these like certain characters are like bring us monster parts. But no, each, each new biome kind of plays with the magic spells you get in cool ways.

[Dan]

And then when you're doing the kind of Persona type stuff or whatever, like I'm willing to give it a shot even if that type of stuff isn't normally my thing. But if I don't like it, that stuff in between, is that skippable stuff or is that like critical?

[Mike]

It's pretty critical because it's not like you're just upping a number with a character. You actually, by spending more time with the blacksmith, you are unlocking a whole mechanic by upgrading a relationship.

[Dan]

Okay, that was my question. Yeah.

[Mike]

And I will say as someone who I think all three of us have pretty low patience for like very extensive cutscenes and conversations. Mary, would you agree that those conversations characters are always fairly brief and then all of a sudden you're like you unlocked sword charms which can do some pretty cool abilities and whatnot.

[Mary]

Yeah, I mean, I think they are. They're brief. I still found them too long. And then I did the fast forward, so there's a button, and it's just zips through all the conversation.

[Mike]

You can skip everything in this game if you want.

[Mary]

Yeah, it's pretty nice because I don't. I don't actually give a shit about any of the people in this town. And they really want me to. There's, I think, four things that you can increase based on your amusement. Renown. Relaxation.

[Mike]

Familiarity is the fourth.

[Mary]

Familiarity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you're like, meeting people to boost these different things. I remember one night I was like. Like, I'll just see a movie. That way I don't have to talk to anybody. And then it, like, made me watch the movie and learn from the movie. And I was like, no. And so I fast forwarded through the movie, and then I just got a perk. And then I talked to somebody else some other night, and I unlocked a perk. But I just fast forward through every conversation and dialogue option because I don't care. Also, I'm curious of Mike things. I just thought sometimes they really portrayed people in a negative light.

[Mike]

The writer, like, any of these characters.

[Mary]

Like, I was surprised. Yeah, the journalist is such an. And I just don't understand, like, they want you to be friends with these people and, like, kind of get to know them. And a part of me was like, is this going to be a romance thing? Because it was, like, odd the way they were setting us up to, like, have a drink at a bar together. But he just kept on, like, the town and like, the bar. And he was just like, this bar, it's just a little. Little. It's just a little, like, overdone for me. Don't you agree? And my options were like, yeah, this place sucks ass. Like, no, I actually like it. And you're. You're a piece of shit. And like, the other one was like, say nothing. And I was like, I guess I'll say nothing because this is such a weird place to put me in. I don't want to talk to any of these people or interact with them. The meat of this game is running around doing the dungeons. I appreciate that this game tried to get you to do other things. To explore a town, to grow. Lots of different skill sets, to have two different, I don't know, special skills per area. I think that's really neat. There's really good ideas in here. It just so happens that the only thing that I personally find fun is dungeoning. That is, like, the only thing I give a shit about. I don't care about anything else. I tried. I'm not into it. I find the dungeons are a lot like Alara Cross.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

They're like environmental pulleys and ramps.

[Mary]

They are puzzling, and they're good. Sometimes I got stuck a couple times and I was like, what are you wanting me to do here? There was this pulley system. Mike, if you've done six, we've probably done the same ones by now because I've done all the easy ones and now I'm on all the hards.

[Mike]

I just finished a giant tree.

[Mary]

Yeah, okay.

[Mike]

Which was basically. It was kind of the first dungeon from Twilight Princess. Very reminiscent of it.

[Dan]

The monkeys.

[Mary]

You can see the inspiration behind it. There's one that I did in a cave system, and it's a trolley system. And you can see the line where you need to pull the trolley. I got really stuck because I pulled the trolley all the way, but then I didn't know what else to do. And it turns out you had to pull. You know, you had to return the trolley to the original position to keep going. I thought that was really smart, and it reminded me of environmental puzzles I used to do in Tomb Raider. I could, like, imagine Tomb Raider graphics over this type of puzzle and all of us eating it up and being like, oh, that was really smart. Like, the way that, you know, she did that. Ultimately, though, the combat was less than desirable for me. I don't really genuinely enjoy the combat. The puzzles is where it's at. It's fun going through the dungeons. I wish that the combat was a little bit more impacty.

[Mike]

Yeah. It's not as crunchy as I would like because even when you get, like. You start to get cool even outside of the. Because there's. I. I agree wholeheartedly. I actually think the Persona stuff feels like an afterthought. I think you could accomplish all the same stuff just by treating it more like Monster Hunter, where it's like you're back in town, you're buying potions, you're prepping. Oh, hey, quick. Before you do the next dungeon, you gotta go talk to her. And then you unlock a pretty important upgrade mechanic. But then you start getting stuff like whirlwind attacks and like Diablo barbarian leaps. And I was like, okay, this is fleshing out a little bit. The problem with the combat is that it takes. It's like the Tales games. Jake Deck, everyone talking about if you guys played like Tales of Vesperia or the combat brings up these arbitrary barriers around you and they don't go down again until you fight all the enemies. It's like a little wave based thing. They all go fairly quick. I think it's just interesting enough to shake up the pacing of some of these dungeons. But I also feel as if the loot system is kind of tacked on and I don't think necessary. I would have. I think it's an easier sell to say hey, this is Zelda plus Persona plus some loot than to say hey, we're trying to do Zelda. How many people try to do Zelda? But yeah, I think the puzzles are all so far have been like good, bordering on great. I got stuck in the same one as you, Mary. I don't. I think sometimes these puzzles occasionally are difficult in a bad way in that they, they don't have the same like skill with visual language that something like a Nintendo would where you could just see an item and kind of figure out what you could do with it. Whereas in this game it's like the dungeon leading up to that one with the minecarts is very much about getting around these locked doors to open them from the other side. And then all of a sudden you come up on one that I was like, how the do I get past it? And I was like, oh, they don't want me to push this minecart, they want me to jump in it. And then all of a sudden it automatically shoots through the door. How would I know that if I. But what? I don't know. Once you get over.

[Dan]

You're right. Indies should be more like Nintendo. Yeah, yeah, just come on, Indies. What are you doing?

[Mike]

Yeah, that's not the lesson for sure. That's an unfair comparison. But like there's something about the, the art direction of the game that I can't always parse what is important to the environment and the puzzles and what's just environmental art. Because it is. It's like that sable cel shaded, hand drawn kind of aesthetic line work, vaguely.

[Dan]

Like jet set radio type kind of.

[Mike]

Yeah, no, it's absolutely unfair to compare it to Nintendo. It's just like while I'm doing all this I'm like, ah, man, now I want to play like Twilight Princess or something. But I really do enjoy these dungeons. I also think it's a pretty like just fun setting to explore. The Austrian Alps and like the biomes are pretty detailed and cool and there is, there is some bloat on this game, but I'm still finding the overall loop to be like, I want to go back and play it more tonight.

[Dan]

I agree.

[Mary]

I'm not done with it. I don't think it's perfect. We've talked a lot about the things we don't love about it. It. I think the dungeons is where it's at. I think it has a great loop of like the day and night cycle. It's fun. I enjoy going in it. And I will also continue playing it. Like, I think I'm only eight hours in and I want to play more. I would like to continue eight hours.

[Dan]

How many dungeons would you say that is?

[Mary]

I don't know. I'm in Area 3.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

I just unlocked Area 3. And it probably like a. Because you can, you can spend a lot of time staying in one area and trying dungeons that are above your level. Again, I saw that and stuff. I, I again, I think at this point in the game, and I just unlocked a third biome, keep in mind, I have not anywhere near completed the first two. They basically want you to unlock all four and do the first two in each area and then kind of go back and forth between them. Once you up your character level, your gear, attack and defense levels, I think are how they measure whether you're ready for that dungeon. And I'm pretty. That just only applies to the combat.

[Dan]

I, I am intrigued. Something I like about this, from what I hear, is that, like, it's just 25 dungeons and then like, I know it's Zelda, like in the dungeons, but Zelda also had a bunch of stuff between. You know, Zelda would have like, you know, six or seven dungeons. And in between, there's two hours where you gotta go play a song for some frogs or milk a cow or something, you know, Sumo wrestle Darunia. Exactly. Yeah. There's like a bunch of shit, which I love that shit. Some of my favorite stuff. But like, I also like the, like, like Shadow of the Colossus. I always loved that. It was just like, here's just like 15 boss fights. And it's just this is the boss fight game, you know, And I like the idea of like, this is the dungeon game.

[Mary]

Get in there. Dungeon it up. This is what you do.

[Mike]

The game.

[Mary]

My job is dungeon.

[Mike]

Yeah. I'm. I'm actually curious because there is a difficulty called vacation mode. And I'm curious about that because if that removes the need to really worry about my item level and difficult combat, I might go down to that. Because these puzzles are definitely what are intriguing me because.

[Dan]

Well, yeah, because that's not going to change the puzzle solutions. It's just going to make it. So the combat stuff, if that's weak, that sounds great.

[Mike]

That's what I'm assuming. I don't know for sure. But I. I'm gonna. I kind of want to check that out because so far the only difficulty slider I can see is enemies, enemy health and variety, et cetera. And then the combat's not why I'm going to this game. And I. It's not the draw. So, yeah, I'm curious about that. But yeah, this game has been a very pleasant surprise for me.

[Dan]

Nice. I'll keep going with it. It does run pretty well on Steam Deck and with all my flights and stuff, that's when I've been playing that. Um, also, Zelda, we talked about a little bit here. Quick update. I have the Triforce and Wind Waker. I'm about to go. I forgot what the very end of that game is. Outside of the Ganon fight. I think you go under the castle and all that stuff. But again, that game I'm playing, the HD version. It is. God damn it. It's so good. So, yeah, almost done with it. And just go play it if you haven't played it. It's fantastic.

[Mike]

The last time I replayed it, I've never owned my own Wii U. And when I lived with Jake Decker in San Francisco for a year and Tim Turry and everybody, we. Jake and I both started Campaign or sorry, restarted Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. He had never played Twilight Princess before. I might be butchering this. Sorry, Jake, but I believe he was playing Twilight Princess for the first time. And then I was like kind of simultaneously replaying Wind Waker. I have not played that. That would have been 2000 2017. So I gotta replay it. It's coming up on it. I just want those both on Switch. I know there are ways to play them handheld, but like.

[Dan]

Yep, I know. I wish it was on Switch. I was tired of waiting. I was just like. So I got it working, you know, on a Steam Deck and it works really well. So.

[Mike]

Yeah, I might have to pick your brain about that because I'm. I'm also losing. Losing patience.

[Dan]

Yeah. Yep. Speaking of Steam Deck stuff, I. Boy, SteamWorld Heist 2 is what. I started that this afternoon and. Oh man, I don't know. Did you guys play the first Steamworld Heist?

[Mike]

I am a huge fan of all the Steam world games. I remember I sold you on Quest. Yeah, yeah, that Was like three different games.

[Dan]

Like that's what's cool about Steamworld is that it's all these different genres and stuff. And some of them like I didn't love the City Builder, but like I love Dig. I loved Heist, I liked Quest a lot more than I expected to. I just think what they're doing is such a cool deal where it's like, okay, we have this world and this name and then we're just trying all this different shit and some of them get sequels and some of them are one offs and just what a cool thing. But I think I'm very excited for this game. This might be the top of what they put out again. I just started this afternoon, I'm like a couple hours in but it's like there's so much depth in the combat. It's a very tactical game. It's not like a tiles based thing but it's. If you haven't played the first one, it's not side scrolling but it's, you know, the side perspective 2D and it's turn based. So you know, you'll have two, three people on your team, enemies coming in, a lot of environmental stuff, exploding barrels, stuff like that. It's a lot of aiming your guns and like the sniper rifle might have a line that you know, you can see how it's going to ricochet so you can bounce it off the ceiling and then the wall and then into an exploding barrel that'll kill two guys. Or this guy is just like a melee guy so he's got to run around and get close and everything. But yeah, it's turn based. Your team does your stuff, their team does their stuff. But then in between the loop is so cool of like going back to the submarine and I don't remember the in between stuff as much in the first heist, but this one has a full like overworld and you're sailing around in a submarine and you're getting upgrades to the sub, you're getting guns on the side, you're getting you know, armor plating and stuff like that. And there's like pirates sailing around that you gotta take out and you can, you know, plunder them for resources and go sail up to a bar to end your day and upgrade stuff and maybe recruit some new members to your team. But it's got all these different systems. It is a very deep game but it is so efficient in how it teaches you stuff like, you know, we don't have a lot of patience for really talking games. I also super don't have a lot of patience for games that take fucking forever. For tutorials, like for instance, like the Mario and Luigi games. I fucking love those. But some of those are just like. I feel like it's four hours of like, let's take you into a battle and then some asshole. Like there's just a million speech bubbles of like now try this. Now try to time this thing. This one, like in the first hour and a half. It teaches you a bunch of different systems very quickly. It does not waste time. You can button through stuff pretty quick and it's just kind of laid out in a way that's easy to grasp. It's not confusing at all. And it's also fun from the start. It's not like that first hour and a half is just learning. Like you are doing fun battles and stuff. It's just like adding a layer and then you do that fight. Adding a layer. Okay, now do some overworld stuff and learn this. Now we're adding a layer. Now you've got a third party and I've heard it's a pretty big game. So the fact that I'm just starting out and it feels so good already and it's great. Steam deck game. I haven't played the Switch one yet. I would imagine it wouldn't be. I can't see why it would be poorly running on Switch or anything, but I haven't tried it yet. But yeah, I've got two overseas flights this month and I'm just so excited to just sit back and play this game for hours and hours. It is a blast.

[Mike]

So yeah, I adored that first one because I mean the general pitch for the first one was, you know, sci fi, kind of steampunk, two dimensional xcom. At least for someone like me who, you know, swore by xcom. Yeah, it sounds like they added to what you were saying. Much more to that interstitial strategy layer between the tactical battles, which is exciting. Plus it's also not sci fi. It's more pirates now, right?

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. It's all seafaring stuff.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, I. That's. I can't wait. I saw like a lot of reviews were super positive. I really want to play this game. I love that first game. I think I played through it twice on the harder difficulty the second time.

[Dan]

Yeah, this seems like a Mike my Hardy game for sure.

[Mike]

Did they change their name because it was Motion? What the hell was their name?

[Dan]

Oh, the studio. Yeah, they're like Thunderfall now, right?

[Mike]

Yeah, it's Thunderstorm.

[Dan]

You're thinking of Motion Twin.

[Mike]

Motion Twin is.

[Dan]

That's Dead cells.

[Mike]

No, I'm. Yeah. Your image and form. But now they're Thunder Full Thunderfall is a better name. Yeah. I remember when Quest came out, I was like. Because I like SteamWorld Dig 2, the new Steam world. Dig is that City Build. Steam Steamroll. Build is kind of Dig, meet city building. But I like Dig a lot.

[Dan]

Didn't love Build.

[Mike]

Yeah. So it's good to see this do well because I didn't love Build either, but God, yeah, Quest was great. The fact that they could do a, like Slay the spire, basically. But on this, like, adventure game structure, they've nailed how many different genres at this point. So it's great to see that that's still doing well.

[Dan]

And I watched the Steam page trailer for it. I think this one specifically said it's from the makers of Steamworld Heist and Steamworld Dig. So I don't know if it's like one team handles those and the others do the others. But like, if that's the case, then like, this team kills it. I mean, all their stuff's really good, but like, this is the top for me.

[Mike]

Yeah, I really, really want to play that. Especially all the submarine upgrade stuff. Sounds kind of. What was the game where you're building up your ship and recruiting people on islands like Skull and Bones? No, like two years ago. And there's like, relationships. No, but it's kind of like a ship that you're building up.

[Dan]

Sea of Thieves.

[Mike]

No, I remember we talked Assassin's Creed, Black Flag. That was an indie game. Heart Dredge. No.

[Dan]

Dave the Diver.

[Mike]

No, you're. It's two dimensional. You're going. Your. Your character is like a battleship and you're going between islands and you're recruiting people and getting supplies and building, like putting. You're stacking, like Curious Expedition. You're stacking lopsided stuff up on your boat as you go between islands.

[Dan]

You must build a boat.

[Mike]

There's listeners right now who want to.

[Dan]

Hear, what are you talking about? Keep going. I don't know.

[Mike]

What the hell is it called?

[Dan]

You have to keep describing things until we understand what the hell you're talking about.

[Mike]

I remember Alex at Giant Bomb told recommended I play it on a beast cast. And then I played it and it was great. There's something like characters go to heaven at a certain point.

[Dan]

What? What?

[Mike]

There's listeners right now.

[Dan]

You had a weird dream.

[Mary]

Oh, wait, are you talking about the indie game Spirit Farer?

[Mike]

Yes, I got it.

[Dan]

I'm the winner we got there.

[Mike]

That's gotta be. That's bonus episode there.

[Mary]

Go to heaven. I would. What the are you talking about? I thought you were talking about fighting people. Like, on battles. You got to get some crew and drop some crew off.

[Mike]

No, you're like making garbage.

[Mary]

Jesus. And you go to heaven.

[Mike]

I did a very bad. That's a bonus episode where we just. We all just try to just do the worst job possible describing a game. Like a game we sort of forgot. Like, ah. Oh, there's.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah, I played this.

[Mike]

Yeah, it was good.

[Mary]

It's beautiful. It's one of the most beautiful games that's ever been constructed. It's all about understanding loss and appreciating life and loved ones as you know it. I mean, it's. It's like one of the number one games that will make you cry and, like, really appreciate those in your life. It's Sea of Thieves. Yeah.

[Dan]

No.

[Mike]

Skull and Bones.

[Dan]

Oh, it's Skull and Bones. Okay. Got it.

[Mike]

Rainbow Six Thieves.

[Mary]

Assassin's Creed, Black Flag. Changed my life.

[Dan]

Sid Meier's Pirates.

[Mary]

That's how I. That's why I believe in God.

[Mike]

Shadows of the Damned.

[Mary]

That's how I lost faith again.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So, yeah, I'm sure I will touch base on this again after these flights and stuff, but so far, so very good, I would say.

[Mike]

I gotta get me that game.

[Mary]

I got. I gots to get me that game.

[Mike]

Daddy says I gots to get Steam World going. Yeah, that's encouraging because I was really excited for that. Mary. Oh, did both of you play a Ranger or Mary?

[Dan]

I briefly did. Mary, probably.

[Mike]

I'm curious because that's on my list either. Knock it off.

[Mary]

I feel like I'm close to beating it.

[Mike]

Oh, so it's good.

[Mary]

I'm like 10 hours in. I feel like I'm in the final stretches, you know what I mean, where you have. My character has built up all these relationships, and now I'm saving my character as a different character that I saved earlier. And I just. I feel like I'm. I'm getting close. I think it's really good, especially for Light Puzzle Noodlers. So you get the way I was describing it when I was streaming because I kept having new people come in and I had to be like, you had to explain why this is so hard. Because it looks easy. They put you in a spot and you're like, I just have to get this knife to this monster. That's so easy. Easy. But what makes it complicated is every time you go left or Right. You move the entire horizontal row and every time you go up and down, you move the entire column. And so that's what makes this puzzle juice, because all of a sudden the items move if they're on your row or column. And so you have to navigate accordingly, usually by making tiny squares to move things around to the position you want.

[Dan]

Them and then loop around too.

[Mary]

Loop around and get them in there.

[Mike]

That reminds me heavily of something. I mean, it reminds me of those, like slide games when you slide puzzles. But there's a video game specifically Wind Waker does those. Yeah, it's probably like Zelda dungeons that it's reminding me of. It's sort of like the ice blocks and the ice cavern. Okay. But yeah.

[Mary]

Anyway, it evolves slightly, but it's the same mechanic over and over and over again. Like they don't mix it up too. I also just want to say it gives me braid vibes because I believe I'm going to muck this up. But the art director or whatever is the co founder of this studio and you can tell that the braid people are in this. It's just, you know, braid every character you were like, why do you have such a big fucking weird head?

[Dan]

You're just a stumpy little guy, aren't you?

[Mary]

This is the same shit. Every character. I'm like, what the fuck is up with this guy's head?

[Mike]

They've made every character here can do it, but suddenly Jonathan Blow's involved in it sucks.

[Mary]

It's just so pretentious. No, it's really good. It's. I just think it's an odd art style that's very distinctive. So it's not pro nor con. Some people like fucked up, weird looking dookie characters.

[Mike]

I'm just saying if I. Oh, God, I have.

[Mary]

I didn't. I'm not. It's not for me, but I don't think it's necessarily bad or poorly made. Made.

[Mike]

I'm. God, this is such a derail. I'm trying to decide whether I'm far enough removed from an interview I did with Jonathan Blow to share funniest. Do it. Okay.

[Mary]

Burn that bridge, baby.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Shit. Am I.

[Mary]

Well, I'll.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'll tell the story and then maybe I'll. Okay. So the Witness, I had never heard. They gave that game out like two months before it came out.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Mike]

And Pete Brown's like, mike, do you want to review the Witness Jonathan Blow? Like, sure. And I love that game. I think it's Phenomenal. It's difficult. It's great. Absolutely. Can be pretentious in some places. But like a month before the release date, PR asked if I wanted to interview him to kind of supplement coverage around it after the review. And I think he's got enough of a reputation for he can kind of like, you know, close his eyes and say something and then like look down his nose at someone as he's talking and, you know, like, clearly a smart dude. But I remember at one point in the interview, it was a 50 minute interview, 5, 0. So it was, it was lengthy, at least for. At that point in, you know, playing the game. But. But I remember he was just saying something that just. I think the conversation had gotten to a point where he stopped. Really. He was not grounded anymore. And so he was saying something about the game and the philosophy behind it and how he was kind of thinking about the flow of the puzzles in your mind space as you're moving through the Witness. And he leaned back like this in his chair. And I noticed that not only were the buttons on his button down shirt misaligned, but the entire button down shirt was inside out. So somehow this guy could make a game that was as genius. I will say the Witness is like borderline genius in many ways. However, he somehow didn't notice that the collar on his button down shirt was on the inside. And then he buttoned it like almost completely. And I remember from there on out, I was like, I need to not laugh during this interview because he's saying a lot of stuff that I need to like, pay close attention to. To. And it was just. I told Pete Brown about that right after the interview and I was like, dude, I had to hold it together. I tried so hard.

[Dan]

I thought you were gonna say he leaned back and then like the rolling chair went out on his ass.

[Mike]

No, I would have been good about that immediately. I would have mentioned that in the. In the story. I would have mentioned that in the review for the Witness.

[Dan]

Oh, wow.

[Mike]

No, I love the Witness, but he's not attached to this at all.

[Dan]

Jonathan Blow is not attached to a Ranger.

[Mike]

Okay, gotcha. Are you sure? Have you looked through the credits and made sure that none of the names are like an anagram of his Mary?

[Dan]

I played. I played a bit of it and like, I. I feel like the way I hear people talk about this game is kind of how I felt about it, where it's just like, yeah, it's good. It's good puzzles, good thinking, you know, it's like, very clever. Stuff, but, like, it sounds like you were obviously much further than me. And it seems like you're saying it's kind of the same shtick, for lack of a better term. It's just kind of like, okay, gotta move these tiles around. Gotta get that thing over here. I gotta get myself over there. I gotta, you know, move this sword to that guy so I can move, like. And I was kind of tiring of that after like an hour, and I was kind of like, okay, unless this, like, introduces something new to the equation soon, I don't know if I feel the pull to keep going.

[Mary]

Yeah, I can see how a lot of people will feel that. And I, I will say this speaks to me because when I'm doing one of my favorite things in the whole world, which is watching TV kind of mindlessly and playing a video game casually, I like simple puzzles that I don't have to pay attention to. And I think this is, that it is not super difficult. It's not super complex. I did get stuck a couple times, but you just move shit around until you figure it out. You know, have you guys. We've all played one of those games where it's. It's nine squares and one of them is empty. I've never been able to do those picture. And you just to move things around.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's my slide puzzle. Yeah.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Mary]

Yes. Okay, well, those are stupid. And they. You. There's no strategy, like, maybe, sure. But these aren't Rubik's cubes. Cubes. You just move things around until it solves itself. And that's what this game is. You, if you really don't want to think about it, just keep moving around. Just keep sliding around and you'll figure it out. You. You can ham fist your way through this game. In fact, there is a slide puzzle in this game. If you keep playing at some point. And what pisses me off about it is that they kind of made it seem like an award, like, like a reward. I just completed this huge puzzle and I. And I get to the top and they're like, you did it. I'm so proud of you. They gave me this slide puzzle and I was like, what the fuck? I don't want to do this. I don't care for slide puzzles, personally. No, I think arranger is like a different thing. And I think it just scratches an itch for me, but I don't think it's for everybody, but I think it's simple and it functions well. Oh, the characters, names. Let's forget about how weird they look, can I tell you some of these character names? Hold on, let me see if I.

[Dan]

Can find Jonathan Blow.

[Mary]

Dude, the character names are so weird.

[Mike]

Nathan. Nathan LeBeau.

[Mary]

What the fuck is this game? And also the game name is really long. It's not just called Arranger.

[Dan]

Oh, is it like a Ranger? Like a slide puzzle adventure or something?

[Mary]

Puzzling adventure.

[Dan]

That's too much. You don't need that.

[Mary]

You don't need it.

[Mike]

I'm trying to Ranger. A Ranger is a escort service.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Mike]

No, I'm serious.

[Mary]

God damn it, I'm not.

[Mike]

Keep laughing. I'm not making a joke.

[Mary]

I doubt there's any article that's about all the names. But the names are like, you know, Zimbabwe Bob. And they'll just. They'll tell me like two characters fall in love and run off to get married. And they keep saying their stupid names and I keep being like, I cannot take this seriously. That two star crossed lovers ran away and are now missing and presumed dead because their names are like Zipheral Goss and Booble Double. And I can't. I just like, I am not worried about them.

[Dan]

God, you just reminded me. My sister Kayla, who's probably listening right now, is playing through Metal Gear Solid the series for the first time on her Twitch, which that has been. Been fascinating to watch. I've been watching all her vods and everything. She was trying to name Zanzibar Land. She was trying to say like, oh yeah, so he met Snake and Gray Fox, knew each other from. She was trying to say Zanzibar Land and she said Zen Zanadi. That's incredible. Yeah. Check out Tim Kayla on Twitch. That has been very fun to watch. Yes. But yeah, Mary, I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to keep going. I feel like there's a lot of games I've been playing lately where it's like, okay, I get what they're doing here. I played an hour or two of them. Not really getting hooked yet. I throw a Hinterburg in there. I throw a Ranger in there. A Ranger? Yeah. It's just like it reminded me of like a dumber. Baba is you. Does that make any sense? I mean, Baba is you was. The whole like logic and words is very different, but like the moving things around, you know, kind of reminded me of how you're just moving things around here and there are a lot of clever things here. I had. I had the moments where I just beat my head against something for a while and then figured out. But then I. I Had moments where, like, I had that aha, you know, like, eureka moment and felt pretty smart for a second. But I don't know, I just feel like other games have done it better. Like, I, I, I'm not feeling the itch to keep going right now when there is, like, a lot of other stuff I'm trying out.

[Mary]

I don't think I can justify it. I think what I'm saying is, is I think it's a really nice, like, couch game that I think was good for me. I don't think it's going to be for everyone, and I don't think it gets harder. Although I will say they just unlocked a new concept at the very. What I assume is the very end of the game, which is neat, and I wish they introduced it earlier.

[Dan]

The rocket launcher.

[Mary]

Yes. You can finally kill the. So the idea, like, remember how you can, like, slide horizontally and vertically so if the row is broken, then you're. You only complete one? They've given me this machine that completes the row Pro.

[Dan]

Okay. Huh.

[Mary]

I don't know if that makes sense, but it means that now I can, I can travel a lot further than I did before, and it makes the puzzles a lot more complex, and I feel like they should have introduced it right away.

[Dan]

So, yeah, there's something there. There's some there. And like you said, like, there is always value to a game that's, like, good on Switch or Steam Deck. And you can just, like, there's not a lot of, like, cutscenes that you have to pay attention to. And you can just play while you're watching something else. Like, those are my favorites.

[Mary]

I just don't think I agree with you. Like, if I got really wicked stuck on a pause, I'd just be like, all right, it's over. Like, I wouldn't. I'm gonna fight to finish this, but sure. I think the other day I was playing, so. Oh, my gosh. I was watching that shark under. At. In Paris. Shark in Paris.

[Dan]

What?

[Mary]

Okay, they're in Paris.

[Mike]

The sun and whatnot.

[Mary]

And then there's a shark in the. In the Sin River.

[Mike]

It's a documentary.

[Dan]

What are you. Wait, is this a television show? Is this something.

[Mike]

Yes, it's a documentary about a, like, an actual show.

[Dan]

Mike's around.

[Mary]

And then they. A bunch of swimmers are swimming. A competition.

[Dan]

Is this a Daisy Ridley movie?

[Mary]

Swimming with all the sharks.

[Dan]

The Daisy Ridley one, Right.

[Mike]

I don't think she voices the shark. Shark.

[Dan]

Is it good?

[Mary]

No.

[Dan]

Oh, okay.

[Mike]

Why are you talking about it?

[Mary]

Because that's what I was watch. I was watching when I was playing a ranger.

[Mike]

Interesting.

[Mary]

And I, I could have played a different game. I could have played more Dungeons of Hinterburg or anything. And I played more arranger because I was like, this game's simple. So that was my point. I don't know why I brought up the shark movie.

[Mike]

Dan?

[Dan]

Yes.

[Mike]

You played Kunitsugami. Path of the Goddess. Is this the one that's sort of Pikmin esque overlord?

[Dan]

I could see it. Yeah. Yeah, because you get all these villagers, you give them rolls and stuff and you kind of like order them around a map to do things. So it's like, all right, you guys go attack over here. You are more defensive and you're going to protect the lady here. And it's kind of a wave based thing. So it's like during the day you're kind of, you're going around, you're trying to purify all of this stuff which like dudes fall out of these evil plants and they become your villagers. And so it's like resource management during the day as you're trying to get this lady from point A to point B. And then at night all these demons come out and then you gotta take your villagers to like, okay, you're the woodcutter, so you're the melee dudes that go up and attack. And then like, you're the ascetic, you're the guy who slows everything down. And so we'll put you in front of the lady so it'll slow down all the demons so the woodcutters can get to you. And you're the archers, so I'm gonna place you up high. And there's just so many little mechanics and stuff like that where it's like, there's night levels where you have to light lanterns and you can only attack things in the light, so you gotta make sure all the lanterns are lit before the demons come. And so it's a lot of trial and I don't wanna say trial and error. It's a lot of like, okay, I failed this mission because I didn't realize there were gonna be this many flying enemies. So next time I'm gonna turn more villagers into archers and it's, you know, some good upgrade stuff in between. The loop is really good because like you'll beat a level and that turns into a base and then you repair the base. So like in between the combat things, you are going in and you're assigning your villagers, like, okay, rebuild this thing, do this I'm leveling up. My archer's here. I'm using these resources to level up, you know, different aspects of the base and characters. And then you go into the like, I need to purify this area and fight all these enemies. So it is a weird mix of like tower defense and like light RTs and then your character itself, like you have, you know, X and Y attacks like you would any, you know, like Devil May Cry type game or something. Which I think I thought this was going to be like a Devil May Cry Bayonetta type game from the trailers. Yeah. And as much as I love those games, I think I'm liking this more than I expected to. Just because it is like wholly unique. It is. I not really played anything like it. I could see the Pikmin comparisons for sure, but I don't know, like the light RTS tower defense stuff is working for me. It's got some weird. Sorry, go ahead.

[Mary]

I said, oh yes.

[Dan]

There are boss fights that have weird difficulty spikes. So it's like, okay, this is pretty early in the game for this giant Centipede boss to be like very specific with what I have to do to. To beat it. And it's. It's not really clear how I'm damaging it. So it's. It's kind of hard. But ultimately I've liked it a lot. I think I'm going to keep going with it. I'm liking it more the more I play it and the more I kind of see the loop and level up my characters. But it's. It's a really weird thing. So I would say check out like a trailer or just see like watch one mission on YouTube and see if it strikes your fancy. Because it's not what I expect. Expected. I don't know. I'm not sure I'm playing on Steam.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Dan]

It's also. If you are playing on Steam deck, it won't run great if you just load it up, but switch it to 30 frames a second, bring the refresh rate down to 30 and yeah, change the in game step to 30 and a couple other tweaks and it runs much better. So. But yeah, it's been a fun one.

[Mike]

I'm looking at game pass for August.

[Mary]

Yeah. Okay. I don't know why I assume that.

[Mike]

Crash Bandicoot Insane Trilogy seems like a good hor keeper. That's a good game. Actually.

[Dan]

Actually started Crash four on the plane.

[Mary]

Like it.

[Dan]

Oh, I need. I'm gonna play more of that crash 4. I played like two levels of it and it seemed pretty good.

[Mary]

I got a New York trip coming, so I'm gonna need some good games as well.

[Mike]

Actually, the Dan talking about Kunitsugami reminds me. Have you played Pikmin 4?

[Dan]

No. Not a Nintendo guy. Really?

[Mike]

But I thought you played the first three.

[Dan]

No, I try to stay away from Nintendo stuff. I don't have a switch.

[Mike]

Have you played. Okay, I take it by your tone you played Pikmin 4.

[Dan]

I get you're doing. You're doing a joking version of the My actual brain thing. Okay, I see. Yes, yes, I understand.

[Mike]

Just bringing up old wounds from our argument at the end of the game of the year last year.

[Mary]

Oh, my God.

[Dan]

Oh, I thought you were making fun of me, not knowing you like Total War.

[Mike]

It was a combination.

[Dan]

Oh, wow.

[Mike]

Speaking of jokes, that's also a transition. What a pro I got. I'm so good at this. I'm getting really good at hosting. It just took 87 fucking episodes. I won't harp on this too long. I know you guys tune out when I talk about Total War.

[Dan]

No, no, no.

[Mike]

For the people. But for the people listening who are interested. Interested. Any 4x people. Total War Pharaoh, when it released last year, kind of. It kind of fizzled out right away. It was seen as not being super content rich. There were just generally after the Warhammer trilogy, there wasn't like dragons flying around and demons punching each other in the face on the front line. So I think that combined with the fact that people saw it as basically a saga title, which is like the small one off. They wrote it off. However, Creative assembly just released Dynasties, which is this huge free update that's basically makes the world massive. It's now like basically Total War. Bronze Age in all but name. So you have like Agamemnon and Mycenae and Troy, and you can recreate their war. And then you have Mesopotamia and Egypt. So it's basically everything around the Mediterranean right before the collapse of the Bronze Age. They've added some really cool stuff, if you, like, total three kingdoms. I actually find myself doing much more on any given turn in dynasties than in Warhammer. I'm actually doing all the court intrigue and gossip and rumors and plots you can assign heirs. If, like Agamemnon dies, this person will take over the throne. Kind of not quite as. Not nearly as deep as crusader kings, but, you know, same vein. There's just a lot going on in this game. And if you're someone who enjoys 4x games where it's not just completely combat focus. Although that's a huge focus here. Try out Dynasties. If you own Pharaoh already and kind of wrote it off and just kind of got bored with it, which I did as well. They've also just added a bunch of updates. It's huge now. It's basically the immortal empires of Pharaoh. It's. It's a massive map. And I've. I'm playing as Agamemnon and Menelaus. And it's. It's just. It's one of the better Total War historical titles now. If you wrote it off last year and you were hoping it would be bigger, it's huge now. I played a bunch of it over the weekend and it's. It has me hooked for sure as far as Total War. It's pulled me away from Warhammer as far as strategy games go, which is saying something. But, yeah, that's Total War. It's just. It shows up as a separate game in my Steam library now. Like, you have to launch Total War dynasties, not just Total War Pharaoh. It's weird. Dan, I think you had another.

[Dan]

I had a couple kind of brief ones. I played E. I'm sure I'm saying that right off of Mary's recommendation. Mary, you made the comparison to Power Wash Simulator, which I think is very apt. And I love Power Wash Simulator. One thing I really like about this is that as much as I love Power Wash, there's always that part of the end where it's just like, okay, I'm at 99%.

[Mary]

Where's the final fucking thing, you little bitch.

[Dan]

Yeah, tapping the D pad. Like, where's the fucking tire? It's going to pop up at some point. But, like, that's not fun for anyone. As much as I love that game, this one is pretty generous and loose with like, all right, there's a tree. I'm going to like, drag my paint thing over it.

[Mary]

And like, if you get moderately most of it, it's just like, boop, tree.

[Dan]

I went over the trunk a little bit. I got some leaves. Okay. Boom, it's done. It's. It's fantastic. So, yeah, and it's like. It's got that same feeling where it's like, you know, in Power Wash, you go into. It's like, well, that van's fucking filthy. I'm going to clean the shit out of that. Like, this is like. You walk into a new area and it's like, oh, it's all black and white. I'm going to paint the shit out of this place white.

[Mary]

I can't wait to get in there.

[Dan]

What's going on? The soundboard place way too white.

[Mary]

Oh, man. I'm going to paint the shit out of this place. What is this, a fucking bakery?

[Dan]

Oh. Oh, there's all this little. I get to paint. This is gonna be awesome.

[Mary]

Oh, my God. I'm gonna get the floor.

[Dan]

And you don't have to, like. It's not like, oh, I need to pick green for my thing. I need to do this. You just go in there, you're just holding NRT and just look. You're just spraying everywhere.

[Mary]

It's just all color hose.

[Dan]

Yes. Very satisfying.

[Mary]

Brown bread roll.

[Dan]

Oh, we got some sparrows. Boom. There you go. Oh, the fire hydrants. Boom.

[Mary]

No problem. Little girl with a hula hoop. Bing, bang, boom.

[Dan]

It's such a simple, dumb thing to bring that much pleasure. But, like, seriously, every time I walk into an area, I'm like, oh, let's go. Here we go. Like, it's. It's very, very nice. And I played it on a plane. It's good for that. I haven't done enough to really know the full, like, loop yet. I did some stuff where it's like, okay, I made a painting, and then I go to the cafe and I'm putting it up for auction and stuff like that. So, yeah, still early on, but, like, out of the ones I. I've tried a bunch of games in the last two weeks and, like, kind of been, like, iffy on them. Like, you know, the Hinterbergs, the Rangers, things like that. This is one where I'm like, okay, this is going, like, this is going to be in that home screen of the Steam Deck for the next flight. You know, I'm definitely going to come back to this.

[Mary]

I think it's worth having in your. In your docket, right? Because there's several things that it scratches in my brain, which is. Is, like, also casual watching tv. Just need something to, like, passively. You do not have to think about this. This is a very casual experience. It's very fun. The creativity is quite deep. I was amazed with how much my paintings are probably very different than your. I actually, I would love. Could you send me some of your paintings? Like, to screenshot them or, like, your first one?

[Dan]

Because I can. Once I'm doing them, because, like, I am early on. So mine was just like, I'm fine following the instructions. I'm like, there's a bird. Like, okay, I flipped the bird. I resized it. There's another bird. Okay. I painted the background. Here you go. Sell it.

[Mary]

Oh, minimalist. Are you?

[Dan]

Once I get a little further in, then maybe I'll send you some.

[Mary]

I'd like to see what Dan art looks like compared to my art. I have had a lot of fun with it. You'll also get. When you talk to people, they will give you requests for paintings. And so someone will be like, like, I would really love it if you could have a bug and a bird and a cat to show, like, a little bit of the food chain type situation.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mary]

And then I went harder and was like, and here's a person and here's like, you know, like, it's just like, we eat them and they eat them, and it's all circle. And, like, I was, like, going crazy with, like, the con, Conceptualizing what my art was going to be, and mean. And then it's just, like, a bunch of stamps. But I really enjoyed doing it.

[Dan]

I love things like that, where it's like, you know, the game isn't recognizing what you're doing. It's not appreciating what you're doing, but, like, it's just fun for you to be like, oh, I wonder how far I can take this concept for your own enjoyment.

[Mary]

I've made some real piles in that game as well, just to see if it did lower the cost. And every time I would, like, hang up my art, they'd be like, oh, this is going to go quick. And I'm like, you stupid. Go ahead, buy it. It's all brown. I didn't even put anything on there, but go for it.

[Dan]

It. But, yeah, good recommendation. And yeah, the Power Wash, it's a very different style of game than Power Wash, but the same type of satisfaction so far from what I've played.

[Mike]

There's a abundance of, like, games lately. Smaller games like Double A Double A.

[Mary]

Size Cuff Floweth Over.

[Dan]

Yeah, I just, for the sake of time, didn't even mention, like, I'm still playing a ton of NES World Championship. I'm playing retro stuff a lot. You know, it's just like, there's a lot. I feel like I've been waiting for that one. That, like, I'm really like, okay, I'm going all the way on this one. You know, I know Astrobots coming in, like, a month. That's definitely going to be one, I think, for now. I think Heist is that one that, like, got its hooks in. And I hope that kind of keeps me going for, you know, at least a couple weeks while I'm waiting for Astrobot. Cool.

[Mike]

All right. You guys want to do emails?

[Dan]

Sure.

[Mike]

Okay. As usual, you can write into firescapecastmail.com with questions, comments, comments, concerns. Send in your questions. Been getting a bunch, but we can always have some more to keep the tank full. Dan, do you want to read this first one that was basically addressed to you from Andrew from Texas.

[Dan]

Hello, y'all. A stray elderly Jack Russell terrier followed me home in 2019 and has been with me since. I named him Humphrey because he likes to hump. His favorite targets are human body parts, including my wife's neck, my other dog, toner blankets, and absolutely nothing. He likes to hump the air. Just thought Dan would get a kick out of that. Oh, and another thing. Shortly after I took him in, he was diagnosed with pulmonary hypertension and put on, of all things, Viagra. I had a small, elderly, horny dog running around with Viagra pumping through his veins. As a wise Dan once said, dogs are awesome.

[Mary]

Dogs are awesome.

[Dan]

Yeah. That dog's living a lot life. Good for him.

[Mary]

Andrew from San Antonio, Texas, first of all, thank you for rescuing an elderly Jack Russell terrier. That's very cool of you. Rescuing older dogs is very rad. And dogs are awesome.

[Dan]

They really are. I just every single day, just seeing Razor and Gizmo just doing something weird and cute and just like, God damn it, I'm so glad you live here, dude.

[Mary]

Simone is becoming such a piece of shit in his old age. Today we have a hole in our fence, and today I opened the back door to let him out. He has a very, you know, strong system. It's. I eat breakfast and then I go out and. And then I'm ready to start my day. And he's very regular, and I know it. I know like the back of my hand. And so I let him out. He sniffs around. He heads towards the fence. Fence, which we both know he's not allowed to go through. And I said, hey. And he looks right at me, and then he walks towards the hole, and I said, hey. He looks right at me. Very clearly understood that. I said, hey, no. And he went right through that hole and he. In our neighbor's yard.

[Dan]

I love the moments where you can tell your dog is like, no, I am choosing to not give a. About what you're saying right now. Yeah.

[Mike]

You can see them, like, decide that they don't care for that brief moment.

[Dan]

Yeah, there's no consequence here. I'm just going to do it.

[Mike]

That's a cat thing. Very much so. That's funny. It's funny when dogs do it because dogs are so much more like, apparently cats. And I don't know any of this for a fact, but supposedly I was seeing that. Cats don't feel guilt. That's why they're very hard to say. Like, when they do something wrong, you can't then, like, shame them because they feel no shame. Yeah, it's like, they don't feel guilt. They don't attach what they just did to what you're saying to them. Whereas dogs. We've all seen, like, dogs put their ears down and then, like, look down at the ground. They feel shame for sure.

[Dan]

You could even if you don't yell at them. It's like every once in a while, like, the dogs are. Our dogs are usually really well trained with stuff. But, like, we'll, like, see Gizmo and say, why are you behind that chair that I've never seen you behind? And you were, like, ducking your head down, and it's like, oh, you fucking did something. And then you'll, like, walk into a room, and he's tipped over a trash can, and there's everywhere. It's like, oh, okay. Or he on the floor or something.

[Mary]

This one. Not only did he. While looking at me, knowing that he wasn't allowed to be over there afterwards, he walked up their stairs to their back patio. And there's a privacy thing, so I couldn't see what he was doing, and I was calling his name, and he wouldn't come over. And there's no way into my neighbor's yard. Their fence does not have an out, so. And the hole was too small for me to get through. Plus, there was shit on the ground, so I had to go. This is like, eight in the morning. I had to go to my neighbor's house, knock on their front door, and be like, hi, I'm sorry, my dog is in your backyard. He also pooped. And I had to go into their house in the very beginning of the morning. Everyone's getting ready. They have a kid who's, like, in school, and everyone's, like, getting their backpacks on, and I'm going into the backyard and picking up my stupid dog and leaving and being. I'm so sorry. And now it's like, put, like, a piece of wood in front of that hole. He's such an idiot. Anyway, I love dogs.

[Dan]

Yeah, they're the best.

[Mike]

This is Daisy, like, literally right now as we speak. Can you see that she's drinking out of, like, her face halfway in a glass?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Her tongue's very long. All right, well, thank you. And Andrew. Mary, do you Want to read this one from our friend Wes, who writes in often?

[Mary]

Sure. Hey, what's a TV show movie that you swear by, but it seems like you're the only person that has ever watched it. There was a TV show on Amazon years ago called Red Oaks. It was set in a country club in New Jersey in the 80s, and it was about kids in their late teens, early 20s who worked over there this summer. The adults were played by Gina Gershon, Jennifer Ray Gray, Richard Kind and Paul Reiser. It wasn't life changing, but it was really enjoyable. Thanks, Wes. From Baltimore. Thanks, Wes.

[Dan]

I have one that I've never heard anyone talk about ever. It was from like the mid-2000s on Comedy Central. It was called Dog Bites man. And it was kind of that, you know, does that sound familiar?

[Mary]

I. I'm going to look it up. I know what this is.

[Dan]

So it was like, you know how like, you know, Ali G and Borat and like that style of just like, okay, we're presenting ourselves as like this actual interviewer or whatever. Like with people that don't know that. It's like for a comedy show, it was that. But they were like a local news team. And it was Zach Galapanakis, like, I think before he was super his way, you know, several years pre hangover and stuff like that. So he was just kind of like a comic at that point. Matt Walsh that was on UCB and Daily show and stuff. So, yeah, it was like this foursome basically of like a fake local news team that would go to like spring break and stuff. And it's just a bunch of people assuming that there's like, oh, here's the local news is here. And they're just getting a bunch of interviews. But they were all like, you know, really good improv actors. And I just remember being super funny. Yeah. And no one ever talked about. I don't even know if it's still funny. I don't know if there's anywhere you can watch it. I just remember thinking it was funny as hell in college.

[Mary]

That's so funny because one of the things you showed me when I went over to your house was that YouTuber who's basically like a.

[Dan]

The Channel 5 stuff.

[Mary]

Yeah. Guy who just goes and interviews people who are like really drunk all the time. And that's not too far off.

[Dan]

I guess it's similar. Yeah. He was definitely posing as like, he called himself Channel 5 because it just sounded generic enough. And he was just kind of playing the straight man and just letting people in the Parking lot of a fish concert or something like. Okay. The comedy is coming from what these insane people are saying and doing. So yeah, I guess I can see things. Lynn. This is on Comedy Central. Dog bite. Dog bites man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

Classic Comedy Central fodder.

[Dan]

I. I loved it. Yeah.

[Mike]

I have two. Neither of them are comedies, but first one. And I know now that I'm. I was definitely not the only person to watch this. But I remember for years I would always be telling my friends who were into Star wars like, you gotta watch Gendy Tarkovsky's Clone wars animated series. Not, not mind you, the Clone Wars. I think most people associate now the. The long running series. This was a short miniseries on Cartoon Network. In what year was this? I was fairly young, it was 2003 to 2005. And it. Genndy Tarkovsky did Samurai Jack, Dexter's Laboratory Symbionic Titan Primal Unicorn Warriors Eternal. So like some pretty top tier underappreciated animated action stuff or some comedy, but just really good animation. And that's when my first time seeing some arc troopers from Star wars, it was just an incredibly well choreographed animated miniseries about Star wars. And it took me forever to really piece it together that it was the same Genndy Tarkovsky who had done those other shows. Because then of course, like a more civilized age, the podcast that Austin Walker and other people do, they talked about it. So I was like, oh, okay. So I'm not the only one who remembers that of course. But I remember for a while I would just talk to friends who like Star wars. Like did you ever watch that weird like three season thing on Cartoon Network and these episodes were like six minutes apiece or something.

[Dan]

Oh, weird.

[Mike]

It was great. You can watch them online now easily on YouTube. They're well worth like a lunch break or something. And then my other one I got to look up when this was. But I remember being very excited for it. It was a show called the Black Donnellys. Does that ring a bell at all?

[Mary]

What's the genre?

[Mike]

Basically it was following the hype around the Departed and they were trying to make a TV show that was similar. It was one season, got discontinued in 2007. And if you're looking at the cast you will notice like I don't know, Google the Black Donnellys. You could see the red and black like Olivia Wilde was in it. It's basically these four brothers in Boston take over like the Irish mob and one of them is played by a grown up Smalls from Sandlot, which is very funny to Me. But I remember being so excited for that show because I was this like Irish Catholic kid growing up. Had just seen the departure was amped. You know, Boondock Saints was still in my blood. So I was ready for the black finally. And they discontinued after one season. I don't know if I don't remember whether I liked it or not, but I remember it was just like short lived.

[Mary]

Some from my childhood that I actually do think people know what these are, but I don't give a shit. These are like my favorites when I was young. Garfield and Friends.

[Dan]

Oh yeah.

[Mary]

Ultimate cartoon joy. Watch it again. It's still good. It still holds up with the US.

[Dan]

Acres stuff with the farm and the egg.

[Mary]

I never cared for the farm as much as I liked the Garfield bits. But I thought it was better the egg. Yep, of course they were. But just the OD and normal. You can't. Have you heard of this guy, the Scarfield guy? He's hilarious.

[Dan]

I know it's like a meme or whatever, but like Garfield. I genuinely like liked the comic as a kid and like had the book. It was like Garfield, Farside and Calvin and Hobbes were the ones I had.

[Mary]

So good.

[Mike]

Calvin and Hobbes is still what like to this day? I reread them every once in a while when I go back to my parents or I have several of them here still to this day. Some of the most like, like. What's the word I'm looking for? Just insightful storytelling. Even though it's about a kid, an imaginary friend, they like Bill Waters or Bill Waterson just completely understands like what it's like to be a kid, but also a father and stuff. Not that I'm a dad, but an adult. We'll say.

[Mary]

I feel like I'm cheating because I don't think these are hidden or unknown. They're just like really good things. I like that. I don't see people talk about anymore Batman beyond Batman. But he's in the future and he's a kid now. So like Batman's old and now the new Batman is like a young kid that he's training and it's kind of like set in a futuristic Gotham.

[Dan]

Huh.

[Mary]

Is that like cartoon networking cartoon? Yes. This was definitely like in the cartoon series world that I watched on the television. I was obsessed with this show. I think it's phenomenal. I don't really feel like anyone talks about it. I don't know if anybody watches it because no one ever really brings it up anymore. But I think it was the Most brilliant interpretation of Batman that I had seen in a really long time time. Because, like, Bruce is old and he's got, like, a computer system, and he's just, like, teaching this youngling, like, how to do it.

[Dan]

Huh.

[Mary]

It's neat and different.

[Dan]

Nice.

[Mary]

I don't think it's looking for unknown, but I think it's good.

[Mike]

I was just looking for Bill Watterson's new book that he did his first in, like, 20 years. I have it. It's called the Mysteries. I thought it was on this bookshelf.

[Dan]

An actual book, not like a comic book.

[Mike]

It's an illustrated book. It's very hard to describe. Just look up the Mysteries. Bill Watterson. It came out last year. It is weird. It's like creepy photographs, and then he's writing, like, really archaic poetry to it. I really can't explain it. It's nothing like Kelvin Hobbs. If you had not told me it was Bill Waters, if his name was not on the COVID I would never know. Knows him. All right, as usual. Thank you, Wes.

[Dan]

Let me throw out one more quick one. It's. The Onion had a very brief period, like, a decade ago when they wanted to do scripted stuff, and they did a series called Sex House. And you can watch this.

[Mike]

We talked about that at Gamespot a lot.

[Dan]

Yes. You can watch the whole thing in, like, an hour. There's, like. I'm looking at it now, 10 episodes, and they're all, like, seven minutes long. So just sit down and watch the entire Sex House playlist. It's just a pair of, like. It's actually still. These shows exist even more so now where it's like we put all these people together, and they're gonna fuck. But it's like there are all these, like, massive oversights. Like, they just put, like, one gay guy in the house, and he's like, this is a massive oversight on the producer's part. Like, what am I doing here? And then there's one older married guy that won a tombstone pizza contest to, like, be there. Then there's a virgin. It's just like, this is a food situation. Situation's terrible. The house is, like, heated all up. It just turns into this, like, very surreal, weird thing very quickly. But I think it's Sex House. Yes. Sex House.

[Mike]

They say that a lot.

[Dan]

Yeah. Welcome to Sex House. Yeah.

[Mike]

Welcome to Sex House.

[Dan]

It's incredible. Yes.

[Mike]

I love. I love when before they cut to the guy, the gay guy, saying, like, this is a huge oversight. You can see him, like, slowly in.

[Dan]

B roll, like, scanning the Room. He's like, yeah, like kind of feeling.

[Mike]

Feeling the people out. He's like, so who do you have your eyes on? And all of them said, someone of the opposite sex. And that's it. And he's like, okay, there's six people in the house.

[Dan]

One of them is an old married guy. They're all clearly straight. He's like, what the fuck are they thinking?

[Mike]

Yeah, I gotta rewatch.

[Dan]

Very good. It holds up. If I remember right, whenever you get.

[Mike]

Like, two hours, watch Sex House and the Clone wars by Gendy Tarkovsky.

[Dan]

They're basically the same show.

[Mike]

Yeah. All right. Thank you, Wesley. All right, I'll read this one from Jeff. Hi, fire gang. I'm very behind on catching up on your podcast, and I'm currently on episode 71, where Mary discussed at length how great the thing is and said that there's no way of telling who was infected at the end of the movie. In 2002, a video game sequel came out that reveals that McCready and Childs were not infected. Childs dies off screen between the events of the movie and the game, and the player character teams up with McCready at the end of the game to fight the final boss.

[Mary]

What?

[Mike]

I don't think that game is technically canon, but it might be like one.

[Dan]

Of those aliens Colonial Marines thing where they marketed it. It's like, oh, it's. This is totally canon. But then it comes out. Nah, not really. You know.

[Mike]

Yeah, but bonus question, and this is super related to everything I just read.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

How many pigeons do you think you could reasonably hold on your person without the aid of boxes or bags?

[Dan]

Five, six.

[Mike]

How?

[Dan]

Like, it's like, you know when you're carrying a bunch of stuff, like one in each hand and then two. I'm going to say eight. I think I could do three under each. Like, forearm pinch to the chest.

[Mike]

You know, I. I think you underestimate how wy any birds are, but especially pigeons.

[Dan]

Are they. I assume they were, like, sedated or something.

[Mike]

No, I. I mean, if you sedate any animal, you could carry many of them.

[Dan]

So it's not just form factor. It's winess is factored.

[Mike]

They're pigeons, specifically. No, you got to hold them.

[Dan]

I assume it's like somebody opens up a, like, crate, and it's like, here they are grabbing have them.

[Mike]

You've got to. You've got to carry them a city block without them escaping.

[Dan]

Well, here's the thing. There's trained pigeons. I've seen trained pigeons. Like, the stuff that Mike Tyson does. And like if, let's say they're pigeons that are trained to be pretty docile and they like being held. I think eight.

[Mike]

I think he would have. I think Jeff would have specified that. Let's. These are just city street bird pigeons. And yes, let's assume you don't have to chase them down and catch them. Once you're holding them though. Though. How long could you hold? How many could you hold on to from. For a city block?

[Dan]

9. Wait, why is it asymmetrical?

[Mike]

I think you guys have. Yeah. How is that adding one in the.

[Mary]

Middle, like head in the mouth, three in each hand. Here's my sample pigeons.

[Dan]

Those are tiny pigeons. She's holding Pokemon dolls.

[Mary]

We never discussed whether or not they were baby pigeons. Three baby pigeons in each hand and then two underneath my armpits.

[Dan]

I'm going more armpits in less. Like just one good grip on one good pigeon in each hand and then.

[Mary]

One between my thighs.

[Dan]

So you're just doing like a shimmy walk? Yeah, if you're getting your thighs involved, at least you can get more than one. Thighs are like, femurs are long.

[Mary]

Once you walk, you can walk.

[Dan]

Just go down to the knee. Just go from crotch to knee filled with pigeons and then just shimmy walk.

[Mary]

What are you talking about? You haven't thought about this at all?

[Dan]

No, I'm picturing this like it's pretty clear. Like if you're already using the space. If you're already using your femurs to hold one pigeon, you can hold three pigeons.

[Mary]

No, because once you start shimmying, they're going to wiggle their out of there. They're. They're going to be like.

[Dan]

But one of them will stay put.

[Mary]

You can you use your, can you like stuff them in your underwear? In your bra?

[Dan]

Mike just left the room, so I don't know. I think he's the officiator here. If you can do that, then it's like 25.

[Mary]

Get so many in there.

[Dan]

That's. This is, that's a controller we've got for the Patreon. We have numerous stuffed animals and a Xbox controller inside your shirt now.

[Mary]

It's everything I need.

[Dan]

And there are all your pigeon sized accessories.

[Mary]

Yes, I could absolutely do. I think so. Eight, no question. Nine, questionably, because I have to walk.

[Dan]

I think six to eight confidently. What is Mike doing? Since we started talking about this? He just put his head set down. This is unprecedented. What does he have? He has a book. He has. He hasn't answered the Question either.

[Mike]

Sorry. My cat just found a big bug and I had to kill it and clean it up.

[Dan]

Oh, he was okay.

[Mary]

I thought he was getting evidence.

[Dan]

I did too. I was like, are you grabbing pigeons? What are you doing?

[Mary]

But like my technique is sure felled. As long as I get their heads in my hand, I can squeeze three pigeon heads.

[Dan]

But I think if you do that, I think they are using their little beaks and biting you a lot. Sorry.

[Mike]

That was a big bun. Kill it quick.

[Dan]

Don't kill the. No, no. I. I can't cosign on that. That live. They have to be alive when you reach the destination.

[Mary]

It's not in the question. Jeff didn't say they had to be alive. Think about how many dead pigeons I could hold.

[Dan]

My implied right.

[Mike]

Let's just. I don't disagree with the fact that you could hold a lot of dead pigeons. Let's say for the sake of the argument they're alive and adult and not sedated. Yeah, I think. I think I could hold one live pigeon before it guys, I'm gonna do.

[Mary]

Nine because I want to be better than I think I can.

[Mike]

Are there not pigeons. Are there not pigeons in Portland or Minneapolis?

[Dan]

I haven't seen them here.

[Mike]

I don't think you see enough pigeons to understand how wiley and serve like those things are survivors. They will escape. They're birds. And they'll flap and they'll frolic. Well, not frolic. That's happy. I think they're freezing onto one pigeon.

[Dan]

I think they're trained for the use purposes.

[Mike]

You said nine. You think you could hold nine pigeons?

[Dan]

I said six to eight. I'm concerned.

[Mary]

Three in each hand, one in each armpit. That's eight. And then one between my legs.

[Mike]

I. You're going to Zenya on atop a pigeon. I don't think he said you can kill them.

[Mary]

I'm not going to kill it. I'm just going to squeeze it.

[Dan]

That might be the stupidest thing I've heard on this podcast. And that's saying something.

[Mike]

And yet I'm strangely horny still. I think. I genuinely think I could hold one Max. Maybe two. One under each arm. Like really squeeze in.

[Mary]

Why? You'll never be in the Olympics. Not bad attitude. Have you seen Creed pigeons? Minimum.

[Mike]

Have you seen creed?

[Mary]

One guys are all losers.

[Mike]

Minimum.

[Mary]

Minimum.

[Mike]

You're the Simone Biles of pigeon killing.

[Mary]

Holding, squeezing.

[Mike]

Imagine if they just added that as a fifth event to the all around gymnastics like Simone preps to hold. It's never been done before.

[Dan]

They're all in your singlet.

[Mike]

Pigeons. Yeah.

[Dan]

You can't kill any, otherwise you get DQ'd.

[Mike]

Doing her floor routine. Simone Biles doing her floor routine. Like vaulting 12.7ft in the air. And help.

[Dan]

They'd fly. They helped fly.

[Mike]

Things coming out of her armpits.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

There's clearly a bunch of birds under her singlet.

[Mary]

Those are a budgie smuggler. I think I can hold tops of pigeon holding. I want to be the Steven Pommel horse guy.

[Mike]

I don't think any of us can hold more than three, tops. I'll say. Three is my max.

[Dan]

Well, if we ever do, like, a PAX panel or something, let's make this be the. The whole thing.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Like, who's. Like, bring pigeons?

[Dan]

Yeah. Like, for an hour, I was just trying to carry pigeons.

[Mike]

Hold on to it throughout the entire panel.

[Mary]

Oh, I still had one in here. See, it's so easy.

[Dan]

Yeah. This tiny stuffed animal.

[Mary]

I had a pigeon on me this whole time. You guys didn't even know if you.

[Dan]

Produced one right now. That would be incredible. A live one out of your shirt. I would.

[Mike]

I would My pants on purpose.

[Dan]

That would be in the greatest moment in podcast history.

[Mike]

I actually, this is. I had to pick up a dead pigeon that had flown into one of our windows, like, two years ago. And it makes sense. They're birds, but I. It's crazy how light they are for how big they are.

[Dan]

Really.

[Mike]

They're light. They're just. They're very.

[Dan]

Just floopy.

[Mike]

Feathery. Yeah. But aerodynamic. Yeah. I don't know. I really don't think I could hold more than three pigeons, and three is pushing it.

[Dan]

Well, some people are just more ambitious than others.

[Mike]

Without boxes or bags. Without the aid of boxes or bags. Did you say some people are more ambitious than others?

[Dan]

That's what I said.

[Mary]

I dream I can hold so many more pigeons than any man.

[Dan]

Man, we believe in ourselves.

[Mary]

Yes. Quit limiting yourself.

[Mike]

All right, fair enough. Well, thank you, Jeff. Yes. As usual, you could write to Fire Skate.

[Mary]

You'll never be on the podium.

[Mike]

Gmail dot com.

[Dan]

This dick's going to get caught on the pole vault.

[Mike]

Oh, dude, my dick's going to get caught in a lot.

[Dan]

Oh, the.

[Mary]

Going to get to three, but his dick gets in the way.

[Dan]

The. Like, Olympics triage because pigeons bit his dick too much.

[Mike]

Yeah. The way they talk about Suni Lee and her kidney diseases that she bounced back from. They're like, he had a horrifying accident when 12 pigeons flew directly his crotch and pecked it apart. He's. It's just. It's just jambalaya down there now. But he still has to do the pommel horse.

[Dan]

One of them flew up his ass.

[Mary]

Why are you doing a different sport?

[Mike]

There's a pigeon up his. There's a pigeon up his ass right now, but he still needs to do the triple jump.

[Mary]

It's a 10 out of 10.

[Mike]

What if that's Noah Lyle's secret is he puts a bird up his butt.

[Dan]

Before a live pigeon. A full live pigeon.

[Mike]

That's why he's running so fast.

[Dan]

Freaking out. Yeah. I would run really fast if there's a pigeon in my ass.

[Mike]

Yeah, that'd be just anything to, like, try to outpace it. Well, what if it's flying in the same direction that you're running in from instead? Inside you?

[Dan]

Is that what's going on? When Mario gets the raccoon tail, is the rest of the raccoon inside him? And that's why he can run and play.

[Mike]

Oh, the tanuki. I don't. Yeah, Think so. I think he just transforms into it.

[Dan]

Oh, okay. Okay. That makes more sense.

[Mike]

Well, that was our episode. Thanks for joining, everybody. That was. That's been a fun one, Dan. I think you may be out next episode.

[Dan]

I believe so. I've got. Yeah, I'm gonna be across the pond a couple times, and I think that's gonna get in the way of me being on. But I have faith in you too, and finding someone. Fantastic.

[Mike]

Have fun at Gamescom.

[Dan]

Thank you.

[Mike]

It's your first.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Somehow I say that like I've done numerous. I've only done one. It was fun.

[Dan]

I'm not one.

[Mary]

It's the only one. It's the last beacon.

[Mike]

Here's what you think it. For some reason, I think maybe it's just the way the convention hall is laid out. It felt like more people than eat than old school. E3.

[Dan]

Oh, that's what I've heard. I've heard it's, like, easily the most, like, populous one.

[Mike]

It's E3, but for Europe, so.

[Dan]

Jesus. Okay.

[Mike]

There's a lot of people going. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Looking forward to it, but.

[Mike]

No, it's cool. Do you know. Do you know which side of the river you're staying on?

[Dan]

I don't know. Shit.

[Mike]

Okay. I'm assuming you'll be staying on the. The actual convention side. No, no, no. The other side. Because. Because the side where the convention center is a bit quieter, but if you stay on the other side, that's where all the different town squares are. Where People hang out and it's a lot of. It's a very German town. There's like a lot of people hanging out in these like cobblestone squares. Restaurants all have seating right in the courtyards. Okay. Assuming people told you get a meat tray, they just bring out these big wooden planks with every kind of salted meat you could think of. And then they give you get cold sh. That's the cologne.

[Dan]

I literally just drank a kolsch.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've. I'm sure you've had kolsch before, but that's like cologne food's great like for one night and then I. It kills me. It's like I can't do it another night. But it's really good.

[Dan]

That's me in Japan where it's just like, okay, I'm going to be very adventurous for a few days. Then I need some fucking McDonald's or something, you know? Oh.

[Mike]

I mean, yeah. I just mean like Cologne has a lot of really good restaurants that are not just like straight salted meat and kolsch. But you need to do that at least one night because that's definitely the.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

What it's known for.

[Dan]

I'll be open minded and I'm going with. I'll know a bunch of people that have been there a billion times, so should be good.

[Mike]

And then also I'm sure like Tam or Lucy will steer you toward get some like curry brought from.

[Dan]

I've already heard some recommendations. Yes, absolutely. I think, yeah, Lucy's got some stuff in mind.

[Mike]

The one I went to was like right outside the convention center. I'm sure they know it better and. But yeah, it's that. That's like what I look forward to when I think about German food. Is curry brought.

[Dan]

Nice. Yeah, it's like pretzels and beer and meat and stuff. That sounds like it's going to agree with my palate pretty well. And cheese.

[Mike]

Really good beer. Yeah, for sure. I mean even if you don't get like, get like a half a weissner, get like a, like a restor pilsner or something. A lot of good pilsners.

[Dan]

Yeah, that's. I had a sculpture earlier. Now I'm having a pill. So yeah, I like it.

[Mike]

It'll be fun. Okay, well, what else do you have going on on me?

[Dan]

I am on giantbomb.com about to wrap up Blake. Actually, if you're listening to this, we might be done with Taikatana depending on how grub does on this one. And we have selected Mike Minotti's next Blight Club game and Grub and I watched a lot of videos of it in Cleveland and we are optimistic that he's. It's going to be a bad time for him.

[Mike]

It's not public yet what it is.

[Dan]

Nope, it's not public. It'll be public when the first episode goes live and he will find out at the same time as the audience and I think it's going to be a good one. So, yeah, Giant Bomb, look up Light Club, Bombcast, personal Twitch stuff and everything. I hope after all this travel I can get back to it. But yeah, damn. Right here on Instagram.

[Mike]

Mary, what do you have going on?

[Mary]

I'm going to New York to see you.

[Mike]

That'll be hung out once this episode goes up. But I'll see you in what, two days, three days.

[Mary]

Yeah. Going to New York to talk about DJs on Twitch, which is pretty fun, and see some live DJing and then probably just the usual. I think I'm just hanging out for a little bit. So I'll just be streaming on Twitch every Monday.

[Mike]

Sweet. And also you can go to, as usual, firescapemerch.com to get some sick fucking rags and some threads. Get some fire escape. Get some fire escape of them. Yeah, wear that stuff so when we see you in public, we can identify you.

[Mary]

It's the only way we know.

[Mike]

Sounds like a threat. I did not mean it to sound like a threat.

[Dan]

Michael. High five you if you have his about the author on your back.

[Mike]

No, I won't. I'll jump off whatever subway I'm on. And also, if you are not yet a patron and you want either the ad free episodes or the video versions, you can go to firescapecast.com or just go to Patreon, look for. For us and subscribe. Or just if you want to treat it like a tip jar because you appreciate what we do. All of those very appreciated. The patrons are what, you know, like what truly you know, keep us going and allow us to do the extremely fun end of the year awards every year, among other things, and bonus videos and whatnot, which we're always formulating. Just finding time for them, you know, is the key. But we've got some ideas coming up. So if you're not yet a patron, go sign up. And that's our episode. Episode.

[Mary]

So video version is where it's at. You can see all the pigeons that are in our shirts.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Mike]

Now, now she's like investigating. I don't know if you can see. There's like a. I had, like, books and video game stuff on this bottom shelf and a big bug crawled out.

[Dan]

What kind? House Centipede.

[Mike]

It was a small cockroach. Yeah, we get like three cockroaches a year. I'd say maybe like two. And this was one. So. So this is about the second one this year. And it's August, so that's pretty good track record. But it was small, so I got it before it got big. Nice. But yeah. We'll be back in two weeks on August 26th. Mary and I will, I'm sure, have found a good replacement for Dan. While you are gallivanting across Europe, which you always do.

[Dan]

That's my family.

[Mike]

You're going to be drinking wine.

[Dan]

I'm bringing my wine suitcase.

[Mike]

Chase, please do bring back some of those electric Mosel Rieslings.

[Dan]

Does liquid death make wine in Europe?

[Mike]

I highly doubt it.

[Dan]

Oh, damn it.

[Mike]

But I'm wrong about liquids. Often.

[Dan]

It's true.

[Mike]

Except especially wine. Anyway, thank you everybody for joining. We'll be back in two weeks. We'll see you then.

[Mary]

Bye.

[Dan]

Bye. Bye.

[Mike]

Sa.