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- [00:00]
Ann Assessment
Wondry subscribers can bind all episodes of Fire Escape early and ad free. Right now, join Wondri in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify.
- [00:19]
Dustin Smith
Snap Studios.
- [00:23]
Ann Assessment
From Wondry and Snap Studios, I'm Ann Assessment. This is Fire Escape bonus episode four, Adrianna. It's the story of what happens when incarcerated people get to work in the community and get to be seen by people in a different light. And listening with me in the studio today is Suki Lewis, host of the podcast on our watch from kqed. Sukie is an investigative reporter who covers law enforcement. Welcome, Sukie.
- [00:47]
Suki Lewis
Hi, Anna.
- [00:48]
Ann Assessment
After the story, Sukie and I will talk about what she's learned about prison town culture in her reporting and how the power dynamic between incarcerated folks and corrections staff changes after people are released. What you need to know right now is that Adriana arrived at Station 5. Like everyone else, she had been serving her time at ccwf and she heard about the fire station from another woman. So she interviewed for the job and moved from the main prison to Station 5, where she began her training.
- [01:18]
Adriana
Before I even got on the engine, before I even went out to a real call, before I even got to see the free world, after so many years, I already knew this is what I want. I absolutely fell in love, like, completely head over heels. My very, very first call actually was a dump fire, and it was just a whole bunch of trash. Okay. So you know how, like, in different areas of the city, people just kind of, like, pile up like old things that they don't want and stuff. That whole thing caught on fire and it was. It smelled bad, and it was just. To the. To the girls that were experienced, they were, like, hating life. But because it was my very first call, I was like, this is so cool. And they're all looking at me like, they're like, no, this is not a good call. Actually, I do remember getting sick. I think it was all the adrenaline. There was so much adrenaline running through my body, you know? But I was new on the engine, so my captain at the moment was like, you stay by my side. So I was kind of like, just following him around. And then finally somebody handed me a hose, and I was like, wait, I get to put fire out too cool. That felt. That was, like, so, like, life changing. I was like, man, this is so cool. People get to do this for a living. This is cool.
- [02:59]
Ann Assessment
So clearly, Adriana was captivated by firefighting. And every new experience, every new call she went on for the fire station was its own thrill for her. She said she felt honored just to be a rank and file crew member. But then an engineer position became available. She hadn't been at the fire station very long.
- [03:21]
Adriana
I had zero intentions because there was five other girls with seniority above me, with more knowledge than me, with more rights to that position than me. So not in my wildest dreams did I ever even think that I could get that position. And it was when I was approached by one of the captains and he said, I think that you should be the next engineer. And I remember just thinking like, what? What are you talking about? He's like, I think you would make a great engineer. He's like, I think you got what it takes and I think you should do it. And I was like, yeah, but what about this person and that person and that person? And he's like, well, it's not about how long you've been here or how much experience you have. It's about having the want to do it. You know, it was two exams, a written and a verbal plus an interview. And it was, it sucked really bad because it was against two other girls and I was at the bottom. You know, I was, I was in the lowest rank. They were above me and those self doubts were there, but I passed all my exams. And when the chief announced like who was gonna be the next engineer and he said me, I was pretty shocked at myself. Escape reality and immerse yourself in a gripping tale of mystery, murder and romance with June's Journey. Join June as she unravels the truth behind her sister's mysterious death. And use your observation skills to find hidden clues and uncover dark secrets. Plus, you get to explore stunning hidden object scenes from New York parlors to Parisian sidewalks. As each chapter reveals captivating mysteries. How sharp are your observation skills? Put them to the test in June's Journey Download for free today on iOS and Android. Hotels.com knows that planning your book club's annual field trip can get chaotic. Rhea, the romance reader wants to stay in Prince Charming's castle. Self improvement. Steve needs a hotel gym. Leela and Jeff, the horror fans, ghosted the group. Chat about Bud and you've read enough true crime to know that murdering them isn't a real option. With the Hotels.com app, invite all your friends to collaborate and find the perfect hotel together. Share properties, vote on your favorites, and book all in one place. Find your perfect somewhere with hotels dot com.
- [06:18]
Ann Assessment
Once she made it to engineer this role, she never, ever thought she could have. She said a whole world of possibilities started to open up in her mind. And when they'd be joined out on calls with the free firefighters from the town of Chowchilla, she started looking at them differently.
- [06:34]
Adriana
I was looking at the rest of the guys from other engine companies. I'm like, man, I'm doing the same thing that he is. You know, he's on this big engine and how did he get there and how is he an engineer and how is he a captain and how's he a battalion, you know?
- [06:48]
Ann Assessment
And still something in her felt inadequate in comparison to the Chowchilla City Fire Department. Something felt different in a way that was less than until one day a call came in and they headed out to a warehouse fire.
- [07:07]
Adriana
So when we got there, we were driving down Chowchola Boulevard, and you can see the column for like a mile away, minimum. It was dark. It was like three in the morning when we got the call for the structure fire. And the column of smoke was huge. I mean, huge. And at that moment, your heart just starts racing immediately. Once you start you. Once you can see it, it's where the adrenaline kind of like kicks in. And I remember turning around telling the girls, like it, it's a real one. Like it, it's a real one right now. And so everybody kind of just starts putting their, you know, their BAS on and everything. And we were there for assistance for the city. And first thing is we get an assignment. We try to go and help with cutting through these metal doors of the back of the building. And because it was an auto parts store, there was oils and gasoline and there was so many, like, things popping everywhere. So it was just. There was too much fuel and it was really hard to save that building. It was zero visibility.
- [08:22]
Ann Assessment
The Chowchilla City Fire Department arrived and they radioed the Captain from Station 5 and they asked specifically for Adriana to come and help them.
- [08:31]
Adriana
And they single handedly requested, like, hey, can we take Adriana, you know, from our captains. The captain would be like, yeah, go ahead, go help them out. And that the fact that they requested me made me feel at home with them.
- [08:50]
Dustin Smith
My name is Dustin Smith. I am a general contractor, a volunteer firefighter, a husband and a dad of two little ones.
- [08:58]
Ann Assessment
Dustin Smith was one of those volunteer firefighters from the town.
- [09:02]
Dustin Smith
So I grew up about 15 miles away from the prison here in Chowchilla. When it was first opened, all I knew about it was it was a women's prison. And my aunt worked there for probably about 15 years or so before she retired. When we would pass through here, you would see inmate crews working in town, maybe like on the center divides on the. On Robertson Boulevard or such. The town has. Has been, I guess, angry about it was standoffish at first because I didn't know anybody's story. I didn't know. I didn't know if I needed to look behind me, you know, I had no idea. I could probably think on one hand of people I know that ever even went to jail for overnight. So in my mind, you know, somebody who's been to prison, they. As far as I knew, they were the worst of the worst, and I would want nothing to do with them. That's the only knowledge I had.
- [10:07]
Adriana
He's the one that reminded me of the very first time we met. I had no recollection of.
- [10:15]
Dustin Smith
Was probably my third or fourth call. That included station five.
- [10:21]
Adriana
We were at a motor vehicle accident, and there was a person stuck inside the vehicle.
- [10:29]
Dustin Smith
This one happened to be a semi truck rollover. And I was given the task of cutting out the front windshield. The driver was okay. He was just waiting for a way to get out of his semi truck. So I started doing exactly what I thought, what I've trained to do. Cutting out the windshield with a sawzall. I guess I came into it a little pigheaded being a contractor. I know how to handle that tool better than anybody else. Was my attitude, my mind. About halfway through the cut, Adrianna comes up behind me and says something along the lines of, hey, let me. Let me finish up that cut, you know? And I was like, why?
- [11:10]
Adriana
We had the jaws of life out, and he was standing at a point where if he stayed there, the door could actually snap back and pinch him in, pinch his body in.
- [11:26]
Dustin Smith
And she says, that thing's gonna fall out towards you because the way you started cutting, what does she know, you know? And so I said, okay, here you go. Handed it to her, and she had another two girls come over and she finished up the cut. I sort of felt. Sort of felt belittled. That may not be the right word, but in a working environment, I guess my whole life, nobody else tells you what to do, you know, you always do. You're always doing the best. And then it was a incarcerated woman that told me that. I guess at first I was a little prideful thinking, you know. Well, I obviously know 10 times more than her, you know, was my first initial attitude. But then it quickly sank in that, like, wow, yeah, she's right, I'm wrong. And that's when my mindset started changing. And I'm now seeing what I've heard that they are badasses that they. I don't want to say they know it all, but they dang near know it all. So at the end of that call, Adriana did come over and say something to me along the lines of, you know, hey, sorry. I didn't mean to take it from you, but you have family to go home to. I don't. If somebody's gonna get hurt, it's gonna be me.
- [13:00]
Ann Assessment
Having a family to go home to when the day was done, that was something Adrianna thought a lot about.
- [13:07]
Adriana
Absolutely. I mean, that. That is something that. It's awful. In some moments, you want to just be able to go home and talk to your loved ones and tell them, hey, you know, that last call was really hard. Can you just. Can you just hug me? And knowing that they don't have that ability, it definitely. It definitely hurts.
- [13:39]
Ann Assessment
Adriana didn't have any family in the U.S. she's from Mexico, so even collect calls were almost impossible. And when her parole date was approaching, she actually had no idea what she would do or where she would go.
- [13:55]
Adriana
I grew up in Mexico. I was actually born and raised in Veracruz. And when I got to prison at the age of 21, I had already had my daughter, had already relocated my whole family back to Mexico, and my parents actually raised my daughter. It was one of the hardest things, I think, that everybody paroling in throughout the years, just hearing the excitement from other girls leaving, like, oh, I get to see my family tomorrow. They're coming to pick me up, and they. They're gonna have food waiting for me in the car. Like, all those things that they hope for, I knew I couldn't have.
- [14:44]
Ann Assessment
So without any family in the country, she started to get this idea, maybe she could volunteer with a local fire department where she knew Dustin, and she knew the chief and she knew some of the other guys.
- [14:57]
Adriana
I spoke to one of the Cal fire chiefs, and I just felt like I already had open doors here, and I knew would be just an easier transition than starting somewhere where nobody knows me, where nobody has got a chance to see that they can trust me. So I think that's when I had made my decision, like, I want to work with these guys.
- [15:27]
Ann Assessment
So Adriana made a request to her parole officer that when she paroled, instead of being required to live in LA county where she offended, that they allow her to parole to Chowchilla.
- [15:39]
Adriana
In there, we are so used to letdown that your brain doesn't allow you to actually really get excited or believe that something so life changing is about to happen. Maybe about three weeks before I paroled, I found out that I was denied my transfer to Chowchilla. I already had all these goals in mind. So when I got denied, I was like, oh, devastated. I was like, man, how am I going to do this? So I was pretty scared. I think at that moment. I didn't have anybody to pick me up when I paroled or anything, really. Nobody.
- [16:28]
Ann Assessment
She paroled to LA County. It was the height of COVID and she had no network and no job.
- [16:34]
Adriana
Leaving Station 5 was terrifying. I was paroling what I felt then was pretty much on my own.
- [16:45]
Ann Assessment
She said that the transition was deeply unsettling. She was restless and scared. She didn't know what to do with herself or how to move in the world.
- [16:56]
Adriana
I didn't really want to be out, like, in the streets. I had so much anxiety. So the first two weeks were, like, very difficult noises and people. I was just. It was in an environment that I just wasn't used to. I missed the crew from Station 5, the routine and that support. So that radio is going off all day, so it's something that your ear becomes so used to. So once I paroled and I actually moved to be by myself, that was actually one of the hardest things. It was being alone and being in silence because I was so used to having that noise all the time. And I felt like the. Just. The world was caving in under me.
- [18:03]
Ann Assessment
Adriana did have one good friend in LA who would later become her girlfriend, Ivy. And a few weeks into her parole, Adriana and Ivy went to dinner at Denny's.
- [18:15]
Adriana
And a lady in a fire uniform walked in. And I remember, like, thinking, like, hey, like, there's, like, a woman firefighter, and she was actually a captain. And she walked in, and I was super nervous, but I really wanted to talk to her. And finally I got up off my chair and I went and talked to her and I shared my experience with her. I felt like I was looking in a mirror. Like, I felt like, that's me. That's gonna be me. She walked in at the most perfect moment of encouragement that I could have ever had. There's a reason why I was at that Denny's, and this lady in a fire suit comes walking right in.
- [19:17]
Ann Assessment
So Adriana decided again to request a transfer from her parole officer so she could move to Chowchilla.
- [19:25]
Dustin Smith
I want to say by. By week two, week three. That's when she was like, it's not going good. She's like, I've. I've got to get out of here sooner than later. She, she's already done her own research about I have to go in and be able to show reason and prove a darn good case to a, to a parole agent to get it approved to transfer parole to another county.
- [19:54]
Ann Assessment
Adriana really, really wanted to get this transfer approval. So she wrote down Dustin as a reference in her request, hoping he might be seen as someone respectable and trustworthy.
- [20:05]
Dustin Smith
I got a call from her original parole officer and he actually laughed quite a bit in the first five minutes on the phone because he had never heard about this situation where somebody was just released. And he, he was just dumbfounded that, you know, why would this, why would she want to even do anything for this area and offer a, you know, a volunteer service back when the, the place she was locked up for, for so long is only five miles away? And the PO sort of reiterated that, yeah, these people, they have been in here, they want nothing to do with this area.
- [20:54]
Adriana
I think I wanted to land at the fire station because it felt like home and it felt genuine.
- [21:02]
Dustin Smith
It was really surprising to get the call that said, hey, I'm approved, you know, I am coming. This is the day. I am coming.
- [21:10]
Ann Assessment
Adrianna packed up her stuff and moved 250 miles up the I5 to the little prison town of Chowchilla.
- [21:18]
Dustin Smith
So Adrianna, as far as I know, is the first woman from Station 5 that has even came back to Chowchilla and became a volunteer here.
- [21:34]
Adriana
Being sworn in as a firefighter, it was definitely a huge moment. It was a Tuesday night, about 6pm and we did it in the Chowchola Fairgrounds hall. When the chief handed my partner my badge, my partner actually pinned that badge on my shirt. And I remember just thinking, like, man, I used to look at the chiefs or the firefighters on other crews all dressed up with their shiny badge and wondering like, how did they get there and how do I get there? And being in that moment thinking, I'm here.
- [22:32]
Ann Assessment
She remembers her first call as a volunteer firefighter.
- [22:36]
Adriana
I was actually at home when the call came through. So I had to drive there in my personal vehicle, seen the engines and parked off to the side. I remember getting my gear on and feeling so strange because I'm changing in the back of my vehicle, my personal vehicle, instead of already being dressed, getting out of an engine, it was almost unreal. And it hit me like, wow, I'm actually doing the same thing, but I'm free. Goosebumps and chills and like a pit in your stomach and just so much excitement and Happiness.
- [23:34]
Ann Assessment
Since settling into her new life in Chowchilla, Adrianna has been able to move her family from Mexico to live with her. First she brought up her sister and then her mom, and then her dad traveled with her now 10 year old daughter and they all moved into her house together in Chowchilla.
- [23:51]
Adriana
I was actually working for Cal fire and missed the day that my. My daughter got home because I was stuck out on a fire. I stayed till the fire finished and so my captain at the moment, she was like, go, go home. And so I did and I drove home without telling them and I, I parked really, really quietly and I walked in and my mom seen me and I went like this. I was like, sh. I just held my finger to my mouth and my dad wasn't facing me, he couldn't see me. And so my mom says, oh, here, come help me with something. And my dad comes around the corner from the living room to the kitchen and sees me for the first time in God, like 12 years and he just starts crying and I just walk up to him and hold him. And then my daughter was in her room upstairs, so she had no idea we had been crying downstairs. And I walk upstairs and I knock on the door and I open the door and she's laying in her bed and she just looks at me and I just look at her and she stands up and she's taller than me and I'm like in disbelief, like I'm not believing. Like, I have my tiny baby in front of me and I'm looking up to her and I just hold her and I start crying and she starts crying and yeah, I love that moment. I, I like being able to come home to a full house. And like, recently we had a call and it was on the news and they watched it on the news and stuff. They're like, you were there. And it's like, just so cute. They were so proud. So, so proud. I honestly cannot tell you that I feel a difference between being in there and fighting fire and being out here and fighting fire. I feel like all the tasks, I couldn't really tell you except that I can't go home at night. It's like, okay, I get to go home now, you know? And never forced to go somewhere else after a call. You're not forced to be anywhere else. You get to go home. You get to pick up dinner for your family and hang out with them and then do it all over again the next day.
- [26:47]
Ann Assessment
Listening with me in the studio to Adriana's story is Suki Lewis. Host of the podcast On Our Watch from kqed. The most recent season of On Our Watch traces the footsteps of two whistleblowers in California's most dangerous prison, New Folsom. So, Suki, what stood out to you about Adrianna's story?
- [27:07]
Suki Lewis
I think what stood out to me about Adrianna's story was how getting this role, first as a firefighter and then as an engineer gave her access to a new identity. And that this gave her both personally this feeling of empowerment, something to work for, self worth, self respect, and also gave, you know, people that she came into contact with, like the volunteer firefighter in the story, also access to a different way of seeing her.
- [27:35]
Ann Assessment
Tell me, Suki, in your reporting on corrections officers, have you come across the story of a co who met a formerly incarcerated person in their community?
- [27:46]
Suki Lewis
Yeah, I had a very interesting story about this that happened to a source of mine and for the. For the podcast that I was working on on Watch, which was really looking at this one prison in California in Sacramento, and she retired recently and lives in an apartment complex in the same town. And she often takes care of her granddaughter and was getting to know her neighbors in this apartment complex. And there was another woman who was about the same age as her and also was looking after a young child who was, I believe, a granddaughter as well. And so she asked this other woman, asked her for help, like, you know, taking her granddaughter to school or something like that. It was something to do with care for these two young kids who they were both looking after. And they started to get to know each other a little bit more, started talking. And it turns out that the neighbor who had asked for her help was formerly incarcerated, was incarcerated at the prison right next to the prison where this woman worked as a guard. And as she described it, they just kind of sat down, like, on the stoop at this apartment complex and just started downloading about their experiences in prison. And one of them was from the perspective of being incarcerated. And, you know, she talked about dirty officers, how she would manipulate them, how she would, you know, move drugs into the prison. And the correctional officer, which talked about her experience also seeing dirty guards. You know, they were even joking about, like, how the woman was talking about how they had a scheme to bring drugs in via drones into the prison. And the correctional officer was like, that was you. I heard about that. And the way that it. When she was talking to me, I was like, oh, it's like two people who've been through a war, and even though they're on opposite sides of the war, they find someone else who has that shared experience, like, they were no longer inhabiting their roles in opposition to one another. They were suddenly in this place where they, you know, neither of them were bound by this place anymore. One of them had retired, and the other one was released. And so they could kind of shed the crazy, you know, us versus them mentality that they had inhabited for so long and instead be like, we had a shared experience, and we're seeing each other as human beings and as women and talking about what that experience was. And so it was really. I don't think that's necessarily a very common experience, but it was a really interesting and moving experience. And I think also just speaks to the common humanity of people who both, you know, work in the corrections environment and who are, you know, convicted of a crime and have to serve time inside of prisons.
- [30:44]
Ann Assessment
When you were telling me that story, I thought, well, this is a real outlier. Most corrections officers wouldn't offer this kind of humanity and grace to somebody who they knew was formerly incarcerated. But then I remember that you said that they knew each other first as people and then learned this other piece of information about each other, which probably went a long way.
- [31:08]
Suki Lewis
Yeah. And I think that it's actually more common than you would think. Like, I think that when it is in the groups of, like, us versus them, it's very easy to dehumanize. But actually, when it's one on one, like many correctional officers that I've spoken to say they have fond memories about this incarcerated person that they would talk to every day, I think that talking about those stories and talking about that commonality is also something that we don't do that much, and the media, and that there is kind of more shared experience than you would necessarily necessarily think. And I also, from talking to formerly incarcerated people, like, I was just talking to somebody who was incarcerated at San Quentin and worked on the San Quentin News newspaper and has correctional officers as his sources. You know, he was formerly incarcerated. He has them as his sources. And he's like, they're now my friends. Which seems an odd thing to say, but that is the intimacy of the relationship is such that I wouldn't. There is no other word for it besides friends. And so I think that there is a lot of room there for it, but that it's often hidden in the shadows because there's such a taboo against these two cultures mixing, and that that's reinforced by both cultures, both the incarcerated culture and the correctional culture.
- [32:41]
Ann Assessment
Hmm. Amica said this thing One time. It's hard to humanize your oppressor without feeling like you're losing something of yourself. She said. I don't know if that feels true for me, but it was an interesting perspective.
- [32:57]
Suki Lewis
Yeah. And it's interesting when you look at where California's trying to go. Right. They're trying to inculcate the Norway model much more focused on rehabilitation, the whole person. Only in a few prisons so far, the main one is San Quentin. Part of the thinking behind it is like the correctional officers in Norway do not see themselves in opposition to the incarcerated population. They are there to do a job, but they have relationships, they play cards together, they do activities together. There is not this same us versus them mentality. And both correctional officers and incarcerated people in Norway have a much more positive view of their experience. And here, correction officers hate their jobs. A lot of them hate their jobs and are really being mentally damaged by their jobs. The rate of suicide is incredibly, incredibly high. The rate of substance use disorder. Participating in being the oppressor is also completely damaging.
- [34:09]
Ann Assessment
That's really interesting. I know. And Captain Lott was clear to me on my visits, he locks. He has a room. There's a room for the captains in the fire station that locks from the inside. And he locks himself in at night, he said, for his own protection and for their protection. Right. So there still is this maybe level of fear between the incarcerated and the incarcerator. But there's a living room. Right. And Captain Lott said this thing that when the girls. He calls them girls, when the girls are watching tv, he can't sit down and watch TV with him because that would be inappropriate. But he can stand up kind of in the doorway behind them and watch TV together. And it's funny how watching TV is like this, I don't know, cultural marker for being together.
- [34:59]
Suki Lewis
Well, just one thing that I wanted to mention, because you were talking earlier about how rare is it for people who are incarcerated to have these relationships with correctional officers that are positive. And one thing I just wanted to bring up was that there are a lot of official rules about how they can relate when they're in prison. So if you get too close to somebody, either party or both parties can be disciplined for over familiarity. And it's a very, very vague concept and can mean a lot of different things. And there are really good reasons for that. Of course, you know, especially at women's prisons, Chowchilla in particular, there's been, you know, rampant sexual abuse, sexual exploitation of incarcerated people by guards. This is, you know, meant to kind of nip that in the bud. But obviously it also can be used as a weapon to keep people from forming human relationships. There's this kind term that's called an inmate lover, which is like an officer that is gotten too close to, you know, somebody who's an inmate or is too kind to them is too sympathetic to the rights of an incarcerated person. But I did notice, you know, listening to Adriana's story, that it sounds like some of the women who worked in the firehouse did develop positive relationships or more positive relationships with some of the correctional officers that worked with them. Is that true? I guess, first of all. And also, what about that environment or that context made those relationships possible?
- [36:43]
Ann Assessment
That's absolutely true. And I think it's like the whole reason I started doing the story was 15, 20 years ago when I was doing reporting on CCWF. And I would go inside, it felt a lot like the. There's a lot of hostility. You could just feel hostility right in the visiting room. And the. The women inside felt like cattle, right? Or they felt like a mass of people to be controlled. And everybody from the kind of like front desk people, the people running the security for visitors, all the way through to the guards lining the room, it just felt really. It felt hostile, it felt. It felt bad. And then when I went to the firehouse, it felt different. And the corrections officers at the firehouse worked with the women incarcerated. The firehouse, in this work in the community of saving people's actual lives, right? Like touching human bodies and pulling them out of crumpled cars, right? Like doing this work so they automatically just had this level of humanity between them that you could feel the second you walk into the firehouse. And as somebody who feels like there can be a better way, this felt like a little glimmer of a better way.
- [38:07]
Suki Lewis
Yeah. Such a moving story. Thank you so much for sharing it with me.
- [38:12]
Ann Assessment
Follow Fire Escape on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondry in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify or on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thank you, Suki Lewis, for taking the time to speak with me, and thank you, Adrianna, for sharing your story with us. Tessa Paoli helped to report this story and all of the bonus episodes. Fire Escape is a production of SNAP Studios and Wondry. The series was created, written and produced by Anna Sussman. And I want to thank Amika Mota again for her help and generosity for SNAP Studios. Our senior editors are Mark Ristich and Nancy Lopez. Marissa Dodge is our director of production. Original music for the bonus episodes by Doug Stewart and Dirk Schwarzoff. Doug Stewart also created our theme song. Sound design and engineering by Miles Lassie for Wondry. Our senior story editor is Phyllis Fletcher. Our development producer is Eliza Mills. Claire Chambers, Lauren D. And Mandy Gornstein are our senior producers and Sarah Mathis is our managing producer. Our executive producers for Snap Studios are Glenn Washington and Mark Ristich. Executive producers for Wondry are Marshall Louie, Morgan Jones, George Lavender and Jen Sargent.