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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to Firewall. I'm your host, Bradley Tusk. It's a Tuesday episode, so with us is our friend and producer, Hugo Lindgren. Hugo, how are you?
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B
Good morning, Bradley. Bradley, you spent the weekend in Miami?
- [00:19]
A
Yeah, I was in there for the week with my girlfriend Issa, she lives down there in Coral Gables. And yeah, it was hot, no question about it. But like, you were out east, so that's cooler out there. But if you were in Manhattan, was it meaningfully less hot? I don't know.
- [00:32]
B
I just think of people fearful of the heat in Miami during the summer. I don't know.
- [00:36]
A
I mean, look, you're not fearful of it? Not particularly. I really, really hate the cold significantly more than I hate the heat. But I wouldn't say we were like spent the most of the week outside, but, you know, went around and really enjoyed and used the city in full. And I wouldn't say that the heat in any way stopped us from doing anything.
- [00:56]
B
Nice. Nice.
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A
Definitely not an impediment.
- [00:59]
B
We have a lot to talk about. You have a big essay on sort of it's reasons to be hopeful.
- [01:04]
A
Yeah. And I'll use that to tie it into last week's, which was last week's podcast. And then the substack was about the time that I spent the Hoffman process and what I got out of it. So first of all, thank you. The feedback from the listeners was just. And the readers were tremendous. So. So I appreciate everyone who did reach out. And did you hear from any of
- [01:23]
B
the people who went to the. Went through it with you or would you have expected to?
- [01:28]
A
Yeah, yeah, a few people did. And I would say that just, you know, for a lot of people, then reached out and said, hey, do you think I should do it? I've been thinking of doing, I was gonna do it, now I'm definitely gonna do it. So look, I mean, obviously it's not an easy decision in the sense that it's a week of your life and you're totally isolated and it costs money and it's a, you know, seven 14 hour days. With all that said, I would just say that if it, if it's something you're thinking about or if it sounded really appealing and if you feel like one guy, listen, we understand conversation. Because he said, I'm thinking about it. And I said, look, you know, obviously makes their own call, but for me, I think it was the most helpful thing I've ever done for myself. And he said, I don't know that I'm ready to Be fully honest with myself. You yet there is this notion of surrender that is really critical. If you're not willing to buy in completely, it's definitely not going to work. So that is definitely another gating factor. But assuming all those things are the case, you know, everyone is different and I think it's helpful if you're going to go to know why. You know, I. I understood that my external life and my internal life were not aligned. And that's really what I wanted to change. But it did so much more. Like, I'll give you a few. Like I've just noticed and maybe it's totally just random or whatever, but at the gym, since when I do cardio, my like heart rate's lower.
- [02:54]
B
Really?
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A
Yeah.
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B
Wow.
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A
Or I wonder if my blood pressure is lower now. Like, obviously there's a huge connection between your, you know, your. It's all one. One body and brain. At the end of the day, I just. And again, I know there's sort of a post Hoffman glow that people have. I know I got to keep putting the work in, but. But I am. But just there are some really fundamental things that I think by, you know, when I. They could probably mention this. I wrote myself this very long memo, of course, coming out of Hoffman. And then I actually usually hate the way that Claude writes. So like when I'll feed in an essay to pressure test that, I have to be very clear, do not in any way, shape or form change my writing, the formatting, the structure or anything. In this case, I didn't say that. And it kind of gave me a rewrite and it actually was incredibly the only time I ever noticed this from cloth. Really insightful. And what did it do? Can you do it? Yeah, I mean, what it did is I wrote something that was extremely repetitive. I took 16 different negative patterns and took them each through the same framework on paper. But they were. A lot of them were very similar. So it was a lot of cutting and pasting and it basically rewrote it in a way that just narrowed it down. Didn't. Didn't take out anything in the sense of like, not mention a negative pattern, but it just condensed it a lot
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B
and it kept your voice pretty consistent.
- [04:14]
A
Yeah, I mean, not. I wouldn't put it out as my own writing. If I was going to put something out, I would not do that. But for a document, for me. But it had some really amazing insights and one of them was because it kind of layered the four different areas for me and the original sort of the identity wound, basically Believing that you are bad, broken, whatever it is, as opposed to these things happen to me. I developed these patterns for these reasons, but they are not who I am. There are things that I have and that I can change. And there was a line saying, once you fix for the identity, basically the rest kind of falls into place. And it's not exactly the line, but I remember it. And that I've noticed for the last two weeks, to me, has really been the most sort of significant thing in that. In just. In that subtle perception of that my. I before conflated my negative patterns or qualities with my intrinsic self. Like, not I have this bad trait because of this, this, and this.
- [05:12]
B
It's like I have a bad trait. Correct.
- [05:14]
A
Right. And just that subtle distinction has been just a massive difference for me. So, you know, the point is. Thank you. And then the reason that I wrote this week's piece was it's called 21 Reasons for Hope. It is going to start off a little depressing, but I kind of. I felt like even though a lot of the Hoffman piece was very vulnerable and talked a lot about struggles that I've had in my life, I think it ultimately was a very hopeful piece and a very optimistic piece. And I didn't want to just write like, here's some new AI regulatory thoughts, you know, and so. Right. I kind of wanted to keep going. It took me a while to figure out what to write this week, but it's called 21 Reasons for Hope, and Hugo and I are going to talk through it. And what I was really just trying to do in the piece is say that the world feels really bad and we're going to go through why. And I'm not dismissing it, because those things are all true. I'm not debunking the things that feel bad. But even with that said, there are a lot of things that feel that are really hopeful and optimistic that we could be optimistic about, too. So, look, the first way I start is, what are the bad things? Right? And then that fucking spilled out in a second, right? So it was like. And this is no order, right? Political extremism and violence, catastrophic weather from climate change, the risk of bioweapons and pandemics, nuclear proliferation, what AI could do to jobs. The havoc AI could wreak across society. The war in Iran, the gun epidemic, the obesity epidemic, the loneliness epidemic, the epidemic of young men in despair and death of despair. The rise of antisemitism, political demagoguery controlling both sides of the spectrum in US politics, the lack of affordable housing the high price of gas, income inequality, the misery produced by social media, the lack of community, over 2 trillion in outstanding student debt, crumbling infrastructure, no solution to the drug crisis, the collapse of the rule of law, rising energy prices, a wildly expensive and broken health care system, a family public school system, the decline of reading, homelessness, kids going hungry, state governments refusing to feed them at school.
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B
And.
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A
And the list goes on and on. I mean, I just eventually stop. And that was just for the US, Right? And look, we as humans have a negativity bias. We talked about this on the podcast before, which is an evolutionary trait that's absolutely necessary. So back in the very early days, you saw a line, you went the other way. Today, you're in the house, you smoke gas, you leave. Problem is, it can't just apply to certain very high risk situations. It just kind of is there. And the people that make the most money in this are people like Meta or Tech Talk or whoever, where they know that if they feed you two headlines, the more toxic one, because the negativity bias is gonna be the one that you click on. And so they deliberately produce as much harmful and negative content as possible because it makes them more money, but they're making their money at the expense of literally making everybody miserable. And so we feel negativity. Now, obviously everyone's personalities are different. I think that kind of, from a genetic standpoint, I might feel it more than the norm a lot. But there is a lot that's happened to give us hope. And the world is variable. It's not all good or all bad. Things go right, things go wrong. Both happen at the same time. And it also is just a constant process of evolution and devolution. Right, so is devolution a word?
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B
Yeah, I think so.
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A
So, like we invent these incredible things like cement or refrigeration or cars, and it totally takes society forward, changes quality of life, changes everything. But then they have these negative externalities like emissions that lead to climate change. Climate change. Then we try to invent things like carbon capture and storage that can hopefully mitigate the damage. And then those things are going to have inadvertent consequences that we can't think about. We're going to have to try to deal with those. Or we invent medicine and vaccines that can save hundreds of millions of lives and have, if not billions. That same technology can also lead to the invention of bioweapons that I think a lot of countries have labs like China had in Wuhan. Then we invent antidotes to solve that. But Then the antidotes sometimes become controversial, and so on. Right? Or we beat Germany to the creation of an atomic weapon. We used it to end World War II, and then that created the risk of nuclear annihilation. So we're always in this race to save ourselves before we destroy ourselves. And look, especially at the moment when our political leaders on both sides win power by spreading hatred, things feel especially awful, kind of regardless of what the stats tell us. But the world is a lot better than it used to be. And while there are maybe greater existential risks than perhaps anytime before, maybe. Maybe the Cold War was greater, but overall, the world does, in many ways keep getting better. And so I just wanted to make a list that people, hopefully, you read it, it'll make you feel a little better. And then, you know, maybe if this podcast episode or the substack when it comes out on Tuesday, just. If. Maybe just star it somewhere so that, like, if you're feeling shitty about the world, you can go back and, like, and by the way, or. Or even better than that, create your own list. Right? This was a list that made sense to me, but even though I have 21 things on here, you could come up with one that's totally different and still be equally inspiring and valid.
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B
Sure.
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A
So, and this is, again, I group them by categories, but there's not. It's not ranked in any way. So the first one is us. Life expectancy has been down in recent years, but if you look at the advances in medicine, the future is just incredibly bright. Like, GLP1s are literally miracles. Yes, they help people lose weight, but more importantly, fight cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease, some types of cancer, metabolic disease. They have people beat addictions. And yes, they're expensive. Yes, they have side effects, but they're. They're working on both. And the price is going to come down like it does with anything over time. And, you know, I had dinner in Miami one night with a couple of friends of Issa's, and the guy works in biotech, and he was saying, for example, that they're working on GLP1s now that avoid sarcopenia. So sarcopenia is the loss of muscle mass. The reason I don't take a GLD one, even though I would like all of those benefits, is I don't want to lose muscle mass, because as you age, that's also really important. So the best for me, maybe for you.
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B
Did you actually experience that? Like, I know that you are, but did you feel the loss of muscle?
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A
So the day I Saw, you know, as the listeners might remember, I took a GLP one for a year before I did the TMS as a way to try to deal with my ocd.
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B
Right.
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A
Because the notion was if it could help come counteract food in a way, it couldn't counteract compulsive thinking. Overall, I don't really know if it worked or not because I think, you know, this is why studies are very deliberately structured. You know this. There's just too many variables.
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B
Yeah.
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A
However, you're just one I did know is I lost 20 pounds almost immediately. And the day I quit was when I was lifting and I was doing something that was like easy, not like almost a warm up type thing. And I was struggling. I'm out, I'm done and I've never done them again. But if I knew that there would be zero impact on that and I could maintain my current. I'm not looking to be any lighter if I can maintain my current weight and get the benefit, that certainly would. So the point is GLP wants will keep getting better, better and better. And at the same time, the five year survival rate for cancers was 50% 50 years ago. Now it's 70%. Age just in mortality from cardiovascular is down by 66% since 1970. Deaths from HIV and AIDS are down by 73% just since 2004 alone. So a lot of progress. Number two, the impact of AI on health and medicine. So yes, we can acknowledge there are all kinds of potential massive risks of AI granted, but AlphaFold, which is a protein structure prediction model that can really help people, researchers tell the exact 3D shape of a protein and that really accelerates drug discovery and vaccine development and Alzheimer's research. Or there's the first AI designed cancer drug that's entering phase one clinical trials this year, Ortronic, which we helped secure, which is the AI doctor that can now prescribe medicine in Utah specifically, but we're working on this nationally, which really just saves patients and doctors tons of time and money. So I think there are periods in history where at least in some field just advances are sort of, you know, exponential as opposed to sort of incremental. And I think when it comes to science and medicine, we're in that moment. And also I think overall, because you know, to think if you think about this from a structural, systemic standpoint, you need the advances. Right. Because otherwise it's not working. But at the same time, you need there to be a different perspective on how we provide health care to people or otherwise, you know, you might have Incredible advances. But if only a few people have access to them, it still isn't really going to solve the problems. Yes, Trump and his allies cut Medicaid funding a lot in the big beautiful bill. I'm in no way giving them a pass for at all. But even with that said, I do believe that both parties are coming around to the idea overall that health care needs to be more affordable and accessible. And even though I think that Bernie Sanders has basically never accomplished anything, real is like not a single bill that he has ever passed. And he just spreads hate and disinformation mainly. I do think that his champion of Medicare for all was really important and helpful. And I do think that we will eventually have it. Just because it makes so much sense. Right. It doesn't mean that you have to have the NIH or the NHS or whatever systems of people who live in those countries kind of complain about all the time. People don't complain about them or Americans when they're abroad and something goes wrong and they're like, I went to the hi Hat, I got to buy a car and they fixed me and it was $12. Right. But everyone in their country just complained.
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B
Right.
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A
But hopefully you can learn from that. I would imagine there'd be some sort of opt out that I think a lot of private employers might say, this is an employee benefit that we want to offer. Right. But I do think we're moving in that way. And then another thing, at least for listeners who are pro choice, which I'm guessing for this podcast is a significant majority, you know, there are twice as many abortions today as there were before Roe was struck down.
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B
Before Roe was struck down.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Twice as many.
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A
Yeah, I knew it's more because we've worked on it, obviously. But according to npr, what's the reason for that telemedicine? Well, literally the kind of stuff we did. So the stuff that we've done specifically is to do telemedicine for women in red states where abortion is not accessible anymore, that they could talk to a doctor or nurse practitioner in a blue state and get the medication mailed to them. So that's a chunk of it. But then also in general, abortion has gone from what was almost exclusively a surgical procedure to now more than half of it is medication, which is just a lot easier for people and a lot cheaper and a lot just more accessible. And then telemedicine, just generally for even if you're in a blue state, just your ability to get access to abortion services where you don't necessarily have to go to the clinic and wait and schedule and whatever.
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B
That's still amazing though. Twice.
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A
The point is, you know, yes, if you are someone who is pro choice, you can be upset about Dobbs. However, you know, if your goal is to actually just look at the substance and outcome and not just have things to be upset about, the reality is, and it's not thanks to Dobbs, but in some ways it is because it forced innovation. Right? So again, I still prefer that they overturn Dobbs, but still, I just looked it up.
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B
So it says, I believe the total number of abortions have not doubled, they have slightly increased. But the telehealth medical medication, abortion pills have. It's, it's actually, it says it here. It refers specifically to telehealth medication, abortion pills mailed into states with total bans.
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A
That.
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B
Right.
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A
I mean, that I can speak to because we work on that. Right. So I know that to be true. Cuz I've, I've seen the data.
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B
All right.
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A
Yeah, but I mean, you know, it's interesting how the law of inadvertent consequences, right. So Trump decides, you know, Bibi sort of fools Trump and is a Jew and is real Zionist. This pains me to say, but Netanyahu effectively suckers Trump into evading Iran. Still Trump's fault for doing it. But I don't, you know, it was still a shitty thing to do at least. And Iran, even though they've gotten the shit beat out of them, realizes they can control the strait and all of a sudden they're exponentially more powerful than they ever were. Right. Abortion, you know, anti abortion advocates get what they want after decades of work, like 50 years of work and abortions increase. So be careful what you wish for. Gene editing CRISPR is now happening. A few examples, A couple hundred patients have gotten treatments now that can use their own and edit their own stem cells to cure sickle cell disease. Chop, which is the Children's Hospital of Pennsylvania, which is an amazing hospital, they actually did a fully personalized CRISPR therapy for a single infant born with a rare metabolic disorder. So the ability to start doing gene editing on a really personalized level, it's not again, we're talking small, tiny, tiny, tiny samples here, but the potential is vast. Number five. So even though there are still 48 million people in this country who are food insecure and could go hungry, and even though the governors and legislatures in Maryland. So thank you. What's more, Virginia, thank you. Abigail Spamberger, New Jersey. Mikey Sherrill, Delaware. Matt Meyer, Kentucky. Andy Beshear and these are very sarcastic thank yous, meaning you guys did not prioritize feeding kids. Although in Kentucky I'll give Bashir a pass because we actually asked him not to make a big deal about it because the Republican legislature would do the opposite. But they didn't do it anyway, so I guess didn't matter. But all these other governors, especially West Moore, who acts like childhood poverty is his number one issue, are just all performative and bullshit. However, so with, with that said, 11 states have enacted school universal school meals and I'm hoping that more will do so in 2027. And so, you know, I do think that we are slowly on our way to feeding every kid. Number six, the opioid epidemic is getting better. Overdose Deaths fell by 14% in 2025. They're back to pre pandemic level. If you look at recent CDC data, deaths are falling even further, although the Medicaid cuts could change that. Number seven, while a zero sum mentality, it does feel like has gripped society. And linking it back to school meals, I think would you agree that one of the times you've seen me at my lowest in terms of depression was that poll in New Jersey where 43% of respondents just did not support feeding hungry kids.
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B
Right.
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A
That one just really shook me in my fucking core. But even with all of that said, Americans gave 612, 600, 617 billion to charity in 2025, up from 592 the year before. They're both all time highs even after adjusting for inflation. So, you know, Americans are generous and charitable people. In fact, it's an interesting when you read sort of studies about happiness from a societal nation standpoint, even though Americans, we did an episode about this once, I don't know if it was a couple years ago, maybe not, but where the problem with Americans in many ways is not our own actions, it's our perception of others. It's like we have an enhanced negativity bias because we have a society that's structured in a way of competition. So Americans actually do volunteer at reasonably high rates comparatively, do donate money at reasonably high rates comparatively. We don't think anyone else will or will help us or anything else. And that's part of why we're unhappy. But fundamentally Americans, I think even in this shitty, shitty world, we've elected this guy twice who literally at this point, I don't think Issa was. We talked about this over in Miami last week. She said it. If the first time she said this it sounded crazy and then it kind of came around to it, which was Trump's on his deathbed. It's like the last moment and he has a choice. The world will just end with, expire with you or keep going. I don't know. It's not. Everyone else pretty much on the planet just about would say keep, don't kill everybody else. I mean, he's 5050. Right.
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B
I don't know, maybe even less. Yeah, yeah.
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A
So I mean that he doesn't want
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B
to think of the world without him.
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A
Right. And so conceive of it. Right. So, but with all that said, even after liking this guy twice, even after it feels like, whether it's, you know, poll respondents, New Jersey, although it's Jersey, or people at the gym not letting you work in or whatever else, all that does feel very real to me. There are signs in that direction. Number eight, Congress has stripped more than 500 billion in subsidies for clean energy and the big beautiful bill. But despite that, the industry's taken off anyway. US is on pace to add 6086 gigawatts of new solar, wind and battery capacity this year, which was twice what it was last year. So largest single jump since 2002.
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B
Even with Trump like doing everything he can to get rid of all of it.
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A
Yeah, you've got mass advances in solar power, desalination, advanced membrane technology. And then look, remember that race in Texas that we ran for the climate change industry green energy to take out Chip Roy?
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B
Yeah, sure.
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A
We won again. So special credit to Matt Munsell from the Touch Strategies, the whole team, but Matt especially and Lizzie Hahn and also Simone Cantor. And Chris obviously has done an incredible job with this where we took out Andy Ogles. Andy was another Freedom Caucus member and this wasn't like him running for something out. This was his congressional primary re elect and Trump endorsed him. Like I so enjoyed when Matt called me on Thursday, it was a Thursday primary, Thursday night to tell me that we definitely won. Said Matt, you just beat the President of the United States.
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B
Amazing.
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A
Like amazing. And then we looked at the coverage now, itc, the Investment Tomorrow Coalition, which is the pack that we created, it's just seen as an existing powerhouse thing, which is just for something that was Peter Davidson's idea in his head in December to go to some of. It's us, Tom Massey who runs. It's incredible. Peter and Steve. Chris Larson's provided a lot of money. It's a lot of people. We've done a lot of day to day work on it obviously, but, but I will say part of it. What it shows you is that clean energy is not just like a be a good person thing, it's like a better way, cheaper way to run our energy systems. And as a result, I do think it's happening and is inevitable despite what people like Trump try to do to stop it. Number nine, nuclear power, which in fairness to Trump, he's not against. They've been quite good on this issue. But so small model reactor developers raised like 1.3 billion in equity in 2025. Federal Department of Energy put in almost a billion dollars. There are big projects in Tennessee, so NRC is finalizing rules to regulate fusion machines. So there's a lot of real progress and I think because of data centers are going to have to have behind the meter sources of power. Small modular reactors really make a ton of sense. And so that might be the opening to nuclear power in general. And as we've discussed before, I have this totally unfounded thesis that if you were 10 years old or older when 3 mile aisle happened, you have sort of inherently still fear of nuclear power. So that would have been, it happened I think in March of 79. So it would have been if you were born before March of 69 and if it's after that, which includes me, not by a lot, only by four and a half years. But still you're like, yeah, sure, of course we should do that. So it's like over 82% of the population now is in the after phase. And so I do think this thing is coming, which is great affordable housing building. It's been a tremendous challenge as we, you know, everyone, lot, a bunch of people saw through the work with Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson in their book Abundance, there's this totemic devotion to concepts such as endless environmental review to use most expensive labor to build things, endless sort of community veto power. And it's made it impossible to build. That's really started to change. The YIMBY movement has taken off. God bless those people. Montana has something called the Montana Miracle. That's limited single family only zoning statewide. Texas has passed seven pro housing bills last year with bipartisan support. California's just done an absolute ton and we've seen major progress in Arizona, Washington, New Hampshire, Kansas. So, you know, bipartisan, every part of the country really happening. I do hope that can happen in New York. So but real Progress there. Number 11, our political system feels utterly broken and it is. But I do think there are some real things that are starting to sprout up. So obviously I won't talk about Mobility again. But there's our work. Open primaries. John Op Dak, who runs open primary pac, who's supposed to be on today. Actually his flight from Chicago is canceled. We'll have him on in the next few weeks. They're making a lot of progress, right? Choice voting. There are more independent candidates. Arizona has a bipartisan ticket for governor, Democratic governor, Republican lieutenant governor candidate. Our societal change thing is really coming together. We'll have internal beta testing going on.
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B
That's an AI tool that you're working
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A
kind of show people how they as regular people can change laws and policies and regulations, not have to just rely on insiders and just accept that whatever happens is, you know, out of their control. So I do think there's a lot. The other thing is because Internet and warfare is the only logical conclusion for a movement where its leaders derive their power from condemning others. That's both MAGA and the dsa. We're starting to see signs of the implosions on both friends. Right. So Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Cross Carlson and Tom Massey have become anti Trump. Ted Cruz then went after Carlson in the left. There was this whole fight about who was to blame for Graham Platner. AOC distanced herself from a DSA primary challenger to Hakeem Jeffries. The DSA actual process for endorsing AOC for president was so bitter that it just had to stop completely. So to me, the implosion of the extremes is like democracy is probably best hope overall. And we're starting to see it. And it makes sense because by definition, if the way that you win is to basically just through intimidation and fear, which is what demagogues do on both sides, eventually it just spreads to a point where everyone cannibalizes themselves. So I think that would be fantastic. Number 12. So I certainly might have a radical impact on job loss, but it hasn't happened yet. There was a study from the imf, Stanford and anthropic economist. You have to question anthropic part of it, but it's credible. But the rest of it certainly is no detectable rise in aggregate unemployment among AI exposed workers.
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B
So far
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A
a firm that tracks this stuff called Challenger Grand Christmas. That's a great name, said there's 102,000 layoffs so far in 2026 due to AI. That's pretty tiny when you look at the scale of the economy. So it so far the impact at least has not been that bad yet. And I do think that not unlike how Dobbs led to actually a significant increase in access to Abortion, medication, you know, if there is AI, job disruption, hopefully could lead something. Universal basic income, where like we know there's more than enough resources both in the US and even across the world to give everyone the basics needed to survive. And that almost sounds like an ultra communist socialist statement, but it's not. It's. We need to come up with the best distribution mechanism for it. The natural then thing that people on the left will say is, well, that's socialism. Communists. Well, no, because the reason these resources exist is because of capitalism. So the question really is how do you regulate capitalism? How do you use taxation or universal basic income or whatever else so that you can have a distribution that allows for as much production and GDP and innovation as possible and, and yet also covers the basics. Some of that might look like socialism, I don't know. But to me that's really the question. It's not good, bad. Yes. No, it's just, it's a how question. And normally when you have a government where the two parties can work together, or let's say ideally you don't have, you have more than two parties, then you have the. The question of government is effectively matters of degree. Right? Today it has become so wildly polarized that it's just, it becomes a, you know, all or nothing which results in nothing. But I do think that the answers are there, we just have to make structural change. And again, that's what I'm trying to do with mobile voting. Income inequality itself, very real. We've talked about this a lot. But wages at the bottom have been growing for the last five years pretty much between 2019 and 2025. Wages at the 10th percentile grew twice as fast at the 90th percentile, 15% versus 7.4%. Keep in mind that includes the pandemic. Black, Hispanic, younger, non college workers gained the most. So the overall disparity is still far too great, which is why I support things like universal basic income. But there are some progress. Number 14, transportation is getting better and safer. So everyone listening to this, everyone reading the comments will say I'm the exception. Yes, everyone else are terrible drivers except me. I really, truly believe that I'm the only person on the planet that's like, no, I should never be behind the wheel of a car, you know, but everyone else believes that about everyone else, but not themselves. But someone dies in a car accident every 15 minutes. I don't want to laugh about that. But like, so I think autonomous driving changes that. So you have Wayneville, operational 11 cities now, Uber, Tesla, Zug, other do you
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B
think our children, like, when they're adults, will just like.
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A
I don't think they would drive.
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B
They won't be able to drive.
- [30:37]
A
Hey, maybe there's some hobbyist type things and you. My kids certainly wouldn't be. I don't know about your kids, but no, I don't think so. I mean, of my kids, Abby just got a license because she goes to school in Vermont and wants to be able to ski. And my ex wife and I realized neither of us actually wanted or needed a car, so I sold mine and Harper gave Abby her car. So Abby learned how to drive just to be able to go ski. And yet now she's sort of backtracking on the whole thing. Lyle hasn't even like, vaguely.
- [31:10]
B
She's backtracking after getting her license, correct?
- [31:12]
A
Yes, yes. So we'll see. Lyle is like just zero interest whatsoever. Attention with Lyle. Lyle's build. If you go to Propris AI, it's his new website for his startup that he's building. Um, this kid is a fucking grinder, man. He just works. Like, I have to yell at him. Like, you have to, like, it's a Saturday night, you gotta go out, you gotta have fun stuff.
- [31:35]
B
What's his startup do?
- [31:36]
A
So it uses drones and different cameras to capture footage of athletes, right? At any level. It then uses LiDAR somehow to then build 4D models of the athletes. They then feed that into machine learning that they're coding right now, him and his co founder Ishan. And then that produces all these new types of insights for analytics, scouting, drafting, physical therapy, we think might be an interesting application to it, you know, things like that. So it's really interesting. We had a meeting on Saturday where they walked us, me and Ashaan's dad, they walked Ushan and Lyle, walked us through, like, their whole plan. They've got, you know, they sent us a Google Drive with folder after folder of, you know, all their coding plans. It's like 68 different systems that they're working on combining. It's all open source. It's. It's pretty amazing. I have to say. I'm a very proud parent. I. I see sometimes you see stuff in yourself and your kids that on one hand is a quality. Like hard work is a good quality, right? Intensity can be a very good quality. And it's hard to achieve meaningful nonlinear things without it. But then you're also sometimes like, oh, there's also a price to be paid for this. How do I try to mitigate that a bit? And it's hard. You know, in fact, one of the things that. That's why sports works well is he loves it so much that if I'm like, okay, I got his tickets to this, to the All Star Game or the World cup or whatever it is like, okay, I'll go right. Sort of forced fun because I can use it for, for that purpose. Like he and I are going to go to Mexico City to see a NFL game in Azteca November because they play a game there and we're like, that sounds research. Yeah, exactly. Football is going to be tough because of the pads they're going to have. That's like V2 of the. The MVP will be most other sports, but. But not football anyway. But you got autonomous cars, autonomous trucking, Aurora, Kodiak, which. Which we're in boring company is making it easier to build new high speed rail mass transit. Even Amtrak's working on a train they get from New York to Boston 195 minutes, which I think about. It's actually not that fast, but faster. That great faster, I guess.
- [33:42]
B
Number 15, Americans, when Amtrak gets on.
- [33:44]
A
Yeah. Are traveling more. Americans are traveling more since COVID personal travel has increased by 180%. Passport applications by 63%. And you know, I did end up reading and look, listening to the whole end of reading. I read the piece in the Atlantic and I listened to her on Derek Thompson's podcast and it was wildly fucking profoundly depressing. However, as little as much as people are not reading and now because of AI not writing, they are traveling and you know, that's learning. It's another. It is the same kind of muscle used in a different way. And when you see other places and cultures and people, that's really valuable. And bringing this back to the first Item, because the GLP1s passenger weight is declining significantly, the airlines are spending less on fuel costs. Number six.
- [34:31]
B
Is that measurable?
- [34:32]
A
The airlines have reported it. Yeah. Yeah, literally. And this is what they attribute it to. So, you know, they know their business. I assume that they're. I don't see why they would like it.
- [34:40]
B
Yeah, no, they don't have a reason to hype it.
- [34:45]
A
Number 16. Look, I think our public education system is very broken, but there are some again, glimmers of hope. Parental choice is taking off in more and more states. That just forces competition, gives parents and students more options. That's a good thing. I think that there's AI coming together will really help teachers not replace them, but just help them take the material and just teach it in a way that through the AI reaches the student in the learning style that they use best because it's just everyone's different. Charter school networks like success are expanding to other states. I think faith in the value of a four year liberal arts degree and we've taught this a lot who are fallen so much that there are alternative types of concepts like multiverse and practice versus tech startup versions, but whatever here I don't know if those are the ones, but it's still starting to see some creative destruction here. So you know, I do think that while our education system is still basically run for the interest of the adults in the system and not the kids, we're starting to see some hope. Number 17, 26 states have passed laws that ban cell phones in schools. 22 of them in 2025 alone. Two and a half million students a day lock away their phones in yonder pouches. It's just an issue moving really quickly. And you know, my real hope would be that this is great, but if Congress repeal Section 230, which is what would effectively remove the incentive for social media platforms to, you know, exploit the negativity bias and feed us bad shit because they start to be liable for the content that they choose to promote, that would really change things. Space is back. So, you know, I have been out there a lot talking about SpaceX as a wildly overvalued stock. I believe that very much. But I've always tried to be very careful when I'm on TV talking about say like it's fantastic, right? It's super fucking cool that they're doing this. They're making progress, like it's really great. That doesn't mean that it's worth whatever amount of money they say it is.
- [36:40]
B
Right.
- [36:40]
A
You know, P still has to be greater than L at some point and you know, 120 or whatever. I think at its peak it was like 125. Multiple on revenue is obviously in no way logical, sustainable or anything else. But with all of that said, Space is back. They're mining materials, they're generating fair ways to generate power and energy from space. Maybe data centers get power from space or more done in space, space exploration and travel. Would you, if you felt like it was safe, would you do like a space tour?
- [37:10]
B
I mean just go up and like, you know, come right back down? I'd like to for now. I mean, I don't know if that. I'd just like to go up really high in the atmosphere or just beyond the atmosphere. Do you?
- [37:19]
A
I would do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it was. If I. Yeah. Not what I think I will. And I think I'll probably do it on the earlier end of when it's available just to, like, go just check it out, man. Like what, you know, Jeff Bezos, his wife and Katy Perry did or whatever. Like, you know, why it doesn't.
- [37:36]
B
I would like to go somewhere. Like, if I go to the moon, I would definitely.
- [37:39]
A
Sure. That'd be cool, too. But I don't know if I'd go
- [37:41]
B
to the moon before. While we're live.
- [37:43]
A
For. While we're live. I don't know. Probably not, but, like, walk around the moon would be. But do I think in the next five to 10 years, you or I or people. It would be expensive. You'd have to really prioritize it as a trip. But, like, that you could.
- [37:55]
B
Oh, yeah, I'm sure that's true.
- [37:57]
A
Atmosphere.
- [37:57]
B
People have done it.
- [37:58]
A
Yeah, people have done it.
- [37:59]
B
Right.
- [38:00]
A
I would definitely do that. And, you know, earlyish on in the.
- [38:06]
B
I'm sure you could if you. If you devoted yourself.
- [38:08]
A
Yeah. I mean, right now you probably could, but the amount of money now would not be a good trade. But once it comes down to a high. But number that for me feels reasonable, I would.
- [38:19]
B
All right.
- [38:19]
A
Yeah.
- [38:20]
B
It'd be a good episode.
- [38:22]
A
Podcasting. First podcast ever from space.
- [38:24]
B
Oh, my God. We should do it. That would be good. Sure, sure.
- [38:27]
A
Yeah. Animal welfare with true animals much better. Animal rights have improved. California and Washington ban octopus farming. California's Prop 12 for. For pork producers to give breeding pigs more space to move.
- [38:42]
B
Do you have any limitations on stuff you won't eat?
- [38:44]
A
Well, I'm definitely not eating raw horse again.
- [38:47]
B
No, I know, but that's not.
- [38:48]
A
Because you're worried about. I probably wouldn't eat dog and cat because I have them as pets, but.
- [38:52]
B
No, I mean, I like foie gras. You don't. You'll eat that.
- [38:55]
A
You know, I don't really love pate, so I just kind of don't because I just don't love the way it tastes. But. And I have qualms about it, but I would say the one thing I will say is this. It's all relative, right? So, like, it's cultural. And what I don't do is condemn other cultures for the animals they choose to eat. To me, that's just totally unfair. And if I were in someone's house in another country and they served me something, as long as it wasn't raw horse, I'd probably at least taste it to be polite. But you Know, I mean, I'll tell you one thing that's not a reason for hope is, is that it felt like the whole plant based meat alternative movement was on the rise and that we could have said five years ago that, oh, maybe in 15 years we won't eat meat because there won't be any reason to. That has not worked out at all.
- [39:48]
B
Yeah, I still don't exactly understand why,
- [39:50]
A
but I think it's a combination of it doesn't taste great and it's expensive if something is both expensive and doesn't taste great. And the thing is like, I'm certainly not against getting like, you know, Abby orders impossible burgers and whatever and like, I'm happy to do that, but by the time you make it taste good and all the shit you gotta put on it, it's really not that healthy either. So I usually end up with something else entirely. So I still am hopeful for it because it would be better for the environment, it would be better for animals. It'd be better for sure. And I have struggled at times with the notion of not being a vegetarian for moral reasons. That's definitely something because I, yeah, I think about it and I've become an animal lover later have pets as kids, so I become it later in life. So have you. How close have you come to actually doing that?
- [40:36]
B
Oh, not very close, but I don't like reading about factory farming and it makes me sad.
- [40:40]
A
No, it's horrible. And you know, look, you or I would pay more, but we're also in position where we don't have to choose between that and eating.
- [40:46]
B
Yeah, right.
- [40:47]
A
So, you know, as we said earlier in this thing, you still have 48 million Americans. It's like one in every nine or eight that are don't necessarily know where the food's coming from every. So that's like where their school meal work. Of course I would like the school meals to be as healthy as possible. The reason so far we have not really focused on that is like, it's also to me, in my view, better to eat than not eat. Right. But I actually saw a company the other day that seems to be at like the same price point producing much healthier school meals. So maybe that's coming. And look, dog owners have a 24% lower risk of death from any cause, 31% lower risk of dying from a heart attack or stroke. They report more happiness, better mental health, less loneliness. So that's good. I am in the process of getting a new dog.
- [41:33]
B
Oh, you are?
- [41:33]
A
I am. I'm gonna go to a Dr. Fairwall. Two weeks. Breaking news. Yeah, we gotta find. Well, it's gonna be the same from the same place. Badass. Brooklyn Animal Rescue. So I've been talking to them about what we're looking for.
- [41:45]
B
We. Sounds like a thing in a novel. You'd have written Badass.
- [41:48]
A
Yeah, but it's a real thing. It's an amazing organization. I have. My criteria really are. One, because older, I don't want an old dog because I don't want to get attached to a dog and then it dies. But like, Sam was five when we got him. The older dog gets, obviously, the harder they are to adopt. So, like, I would lean towards a dog that's like that age range just because to give them, you know, it's just gonna be harder for them. And I like that a lot. And he still was with us for nine years. Wanted to travel with the dogs. Like £25 is probably the right weight. Above that, you have to put them out in cargo or whatever, which sounds terrible.
- [42:24]
B
Or you just get a service dog thing and you take him right on the plane.
- [42:27]
A
We'll get you early to write us a letter.
- [42:28]
B
Yeah.
- [42:29]
A
And then, you know, because we now have a cat, it has to be. Sam was great with the cat. But there's a fair that they have on somewhere in Brooklyn on August 22nd. So I'm going to go to that. If any listeners want to meet up, I'll be at the baddest Brooklyn Adoption fair on the 22nd. So anyway, number 20, murder is down, way down. Homicides fell 18% in the first half of this year across 30 major cities. The average homicide rate is 51% below its peak in 2022. 31% below pre pandemic level. So that's great.
- [43:01]
B
Shocking. Stunning.
- [43:02]
A
Yeah. And then finally. Let me just. On this one.
- [43:07]
B
So is this the last one?
- [43:10]
A
We're back to the last one, but back to the murder thing for a second. So if human being. Now, human beings are not always rational actors. Right. That's sort of the whole point of Tversky and Kahneman's work. Right. But we are all better off in a world with no murder. Right? Like, we pretty much all. Unless you're a serial killer.
- [43:28]
B
Well, but there's people who depend on violence for their. I mean, not like. Not like, you know, but let's say
- [43:36]
A
you were in a private prison. I still don't think murder is that big of a category that you worry about your company going broke.
- [43:42]
B
No, I don't mean that. I just mean that like there's people who the threat of violence is really important to the way they. Maybe even our government.
- [43:51]
A
Good for the world. Right. And I think I do to separate to some extent I should just consider the murder.
- [43:57]
B
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
- [43:59]
A
So, you know, maybe there are ways, you know, we've talked a lot about, like in a million years, if humans are still around, how will we have evolved? Because at that point there will be evolution. And is it like the thing that makes us so human? But in some ways, for better and for worse, is that we know right and wrong and yet we don't automatically choose right. So then, you know, we've talked this before in this podcast. Like if we did choose right, would that be better? And in some ways, yes. Right. Some ways you could argue would take away our humanity. Then we're just robots. But the kids and I had a long debate last night about the definition of a cyborg and kind of what that means and is it good or bad.
- [44:39]
B
I was basically saying that was a full family discussion. You and the kids, me and the
- [44:42]
A
Gabby Lyle, they were on the side because I think recency bias, a little bit of it needs to be something that is interacting with your kind of brain functioning in some way, like neuralink. And I was saying a peg leg would count. Anything that is used to enhance the human body, which has been going on for thousands of years, effectively would be a non natural thing, which I don't think any of us rather were arguing that was bad. Right. I think there might come a point where then we got into discussion of AGI. That's different, right. That you can debate whether or not. And it's interesting, Lyle was. Abby, I think it was Lyle was making the case that ethicists are saying that AGI is actually very cruel to the AI because they have consciousness, but not a body in which to act. I don't know, hadn't thought about it.
- [45:29]
B
Cruel to the AI.
- [45:30]
A
It was interesting.
- [45:33]
B
So.
- [45:34]
A
But anyway, if we evolve in certain. Is it possible that we are evolving a tiny way towards just a general agreement, like let's not murder.
- [45:47]
B
Well, I mean, obviously just policing. All of civilization has been moving that way for a long time. Yeah, yeah.
- [45:52]
A
So, but like the advances in the last however many years, is that because people are like technology makes it much like I've been watching that Brady Snell show on Hulu, the Shards. And if you read the book, but it was about like a serial killer
- [46:05]
B
and I don't read or I haven't read him, so.
- [46:10]
A
And I think serial killers Today are probably harder to happen because all the DNA and everything else, which cameras would just make it much harder to get away with. Imagine. So I just wonder if there's not sort of an evolution of a notion of like, listen, this thing is bad for all of us. Is there sort of some sense of collective agreement not to do it? Or is it just that the deterrent effect of the things like DNA and cameras and everything else and policing is why murder?
- [46:42]
B
Well, I'm going to pick the cop out answer and say both.
- [46:45]
A
That's probably right.
- [46:46]
B
Yeah. I think those two things are both true. Therefore, I think there's a general growing sense of awareness that cooperation and getting along with each other is good for everybody. And then there's also a sense that you're gonna get caught because of the technology and because of the advances in policing and everything else.
- [47:11]
A
Yeah. Last one. Got a little bit to go still.
- [47:13]
B
Yes.
- [47:14]
A
I'm just gonna read this one. The human spirit is still incredibly resilient. And creative reading may be in decline, but incredible books are still written all the time. Hollywood may subscribe to formulas that make good movies harder to find, but great movies are still made all the time. Netflix may deliberately dumb down content because they know we're looking at our phones at the same time we're watching tv. And yet great TV shows keep popping up. Truly creative individual content pops up on YouTube and tech talk every day, along with tremendous amounts of slopes. And regular people are far more empowered to be creative than ever before. Great music, great art, great architecture, great fashion, great food are created every day all over the country and all over the world. We may be isolated behind our screens, but people still find ways to congregate in person and share our humanity. And even if none of that resonates, the Knicks want. As someone who is beyond that.
- [48:00]
B
Yeah, I love you. I think that's completely true. There's way more crap out there, but there's plenty of good stuff too. And. And I think people who want us. You can reduce your sort of aperture to a certain part of culture, whether it's literature or movies or music. And it's a golden age. You don't need to watch shit.
- [48:25]
A
And again, and even there are new forms, obviously there's all kinds of people who are now in the same way that I'm trying to empower people through the societal change tool that we're building, YouTube. I mean, as much as I hate social media, in some ways it really does empower people. Or Lyle, when we were talking about his app, there's technology that he's building. Was talking about how he's just so enjoying all the coding. And I was like, it's an art form in its own way. It is certainly an art form.
- [48:48]
B
Right? Sure. It's incredibly crazy.
- [48:50]
A
Yeah, I think so. And I think we've talked this before. As much as we bemoan the faith that has befallen media, it is an industry that I think actually has been quite resilient and has benefited from creative destruction. And you can argue that there is now too much stratification. So there's much less universal truth. But in terms of new forms of media and content coming up to replace old, like, I think the industry's actually done a great job. The people who are complaining are the people who haven't adapted most of the time. Right. You know, but overall and just last part of this. So this is all in the US but in some ways the progress in the rest of the world, because the starting point was lower is even better. So this is basically the Steven Pinker stuff. But like, although I didn't get it from him specifically here. Over the last 30 years, we've witnessed the greatest reduction in global extreme poverty. Have recorded the share of world population. Extreme Poverty has fell 35% since 19. I'm sorry, it was 35% in 1990. It's under 9% today. Child mortality has been cut in half since 2000 thanks to vaccination and clean water. Millions of kids who would have died from things like malaria and measles and diarrhea or not growing up healthy. Sub Saharan Africa alone. The distribution of bed nets, modern treatment saved 11.7 million lives the last 20 years. Basic education literacy is exploding. Female literacy is reaching an all time high. Youth literacy now sits at 91% globally. 92% of the world has electricity compared to 71% in 1990. More than half the world's population is now middle class. So the world is a lot better than it used to be. And things do feel bad out there. And many ways things are bad out there. But not everything is bad. The future is not inherently doomed. There is progress, there is optimism, there's love, there's light. There is unquestionably an existential struggle between a zero sum mentality and an abundance mentality. But there's not a guarantee that the bad guys will win. And I'm not gonna say that it will all be okay. I don't know that. But it can be okay. And that alone gives us reasons for hope.
- [50:55]
B
Okay, I'm gonna ask you One question. It's a counterpoint question, especially to where you landed. But I was reading one of those stor that come up pretty regularly now about a billionaire buying a ranch in Argentina that he thinks is the optimal place to sort of ride out the apocalypse. Have you ever, in your darkest moments, entertained? Never. Okay.
- [51:17]
A
Nope.
- [51:18]
B
Can you just explain why not?
- [51:20]
A
Because I don't want to be in some bunker to survive for the sake of surviving. Right. I'm part of humanity. I have spent my life in many ways trying to, in my own ways, impact and improve humanity. I use most of my resources to do it. Working in government was certainly another example of that. I'm not saying that I want to perish, but at the same time, like, you know, I have no interest. Just like during COVID you know, people that I know who would never in a million years get a gun. And I don't think anyone actually did, but I still.
- [51:53]
B
No, we had some friends in common.
- [51:54]
A
Yeah, but friends were talking about it. I was just like, no, like, I know that I'll end up, you know, the odds something wrong happening through our own creation are exponentially higher than killing an intruder or something like that. I don't really want to kill anybody. So like, you know, I'm not gonna take the Mike Dukakis thing of, you know, where like, someone. What was that question? Like, if someone raped or murdered your
- [52:14]
B
wife, would you forgive them or whatever,
- [52:16]
A
give them death penalty? He's like, no. I was like, I'd kill the motherfucker myself. But like, so I'm not like. But with that said, no, I have no interest in that whatsoever. Do you?
- [52:26]
B
No, I'm just. I'm always curious, you know, you talked about taking the space flight. You know, you have resources to do stuff that to me, that's like the
- [52:34]
A
insurance policy that's a positive. Look, I've. Here's my insurance policy. I'm getting Portuguese citizenship because. Because I worry about the US and I worry about Jews and never in our history being able to stay in one country indefinitely safely. So. And Israel's another backup, but Israel's changing in ways that make me worry that test religiosity could be applied to citizenship. And so I want another option. And I understand Europe's got its own pretty shitty history with us, but like, so, yeah, it's not that I don't want insurance policies, but overall I would rather use the money in the same way that my view is once I had enough money to meet my needs and my kids needs, then it's Sort of like everything else is incremental. And it's really like, what can I do with it? That won't make me the happiest. And oftentimes it is things that make me feel good about myself. Myself. And it's a purely selfish way to approach it. But not. But for the same reason. I would want to use my resources to be reasonable and smart. But just like, if your whole life is built around just trying to get to a number of wealth for the sake of it, that seems utterly pointless and stupid and counterproductive to me. So is the. All of humanity's gonna die, but I'm in a bunker eating green beans. So fucking watching reruns of like, Benson. I don't need that.
- [53:56]
B
All right, Bradley, thanks.
- [53:57]
A
Can I get a quick recommendation?
- [53:58]
B
Of course. I have to give you some props on the recommendation. And it was a surprise to me that you. That first of all that you read it and also that you liked it. But I'm almost done with the Rolling Stones book and he emailed me. Oh, he did?
- [54:10]
A
So nice of him. Yeah. Just to say thank you. You know, I want to have him on the podcast I offered or something and ending it right back.
- [54:15]
B
Oh, really?
- [54:16]
A
Yeah, he's a friend. I'll give you his email.
- [54:17]
B
He's a friend of a friend. I think I have it.
- [54:19]
A
But you know, you know what?
- [54:20]
B
The book is just really well written. Like, that's what's so pleasurable about it.
- [54:24]
A
Great, great book.
- [54:24]
B
And I'm. But I'm also surprised how chaotic their lives. But also at the moments that they were doing their best work, like. I know, like those four albums that are like classic albums, like, everything was going wrong.
- [54:38]
A
Yeah, like.
- [54:39]
B
Like.
- [54:39]
A
I know. I mean that, you know, I don't want to fuel the notion that, like, it takes drug addiction and chaos to make great art. Because that's not true.
- [54:48]
B
But in their case.
- [54:49]
A
And it does a lot more harm to great art than helping it, I think. But still in their case. Yeah, let's have one and ask them. Let's go into your recommendation real fast. So the book called Aetna by guy named Paul Yoon just came out last week. It's about.
- [55:01]
B
Say the name again.
- [55:02]
A
E, T, N, A. Like Mount Aetna. And it's about a dog. They don't say the country. It's presumably Iraq. That's sort of used by their. Or taken into the US army to help sniff out minds and stuff. And then the war ends and the dogs just kind of on its own. Usually books written the first person of dogs are just incredibly treacly and terrible. I've never read one terrible. This one was beautiful. Just so beautiful. And like I'm not realistic in any way, but just.
- [55:28]
B
You loved it.
- [55:29]
A
I loved it. So if you like dogs.
- [55:30]
B
Where did that come from? How did you. Did you hear about it or something?
- [55:33]
A
Oh yeah. It's got a ton of press. I'm sure we sell it here. Like it's on all the list. Yeah, yeah. It's not like I discovered it somewhere. It's actually probably. I don't know if to me that seller but. But if you like dogs, I think you'll love it.
- [55:45]
B
Thanks, Bradley. Thank you.
- [55:51]
A
Firewalls recorded at my bookstore, PNT Network, located at 180 Orchard street on the lower east side of Manhattan. We'd love to hear from you with questions, feedbacks or idea for a guest. Just email me at Bradley at Firewall Media or find me on LinkedIn. And to keep up with what's on my mind and my latest writing, please follow my new substack at bradleytus. Substack. Com. Thanks again for listening.