Hard to Talk About Anything Except the Knicks

Summary

Firewall with Bradley Tusk

Episode: Hard to Talk About Anything Except the Knicks
Date: June 9, 2026
Host: Bradley Tusk
Location: P&T Knitwear, 180 Orchard Street, NYC

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the exuberance in New York City around the Knicks’ run in the NBA Finals, with much of the discussion focused on basketball fandom, ticket prices, and the city’s atmosphere. The second half pivots to serious topics like AI regulation, the shifting public attitude toward technology, and a deep dive into Bradley’s top TV shows. Throughout, the conversation weaves in larger themes about New York identity, politics, and the intersection between pop culture and public life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Knicks Fever and the Cultural Moment (00:00–17:32)

• Knicks Mania

  • Bradley arrives in high spirits, skipping dinner plans to get to Madison Square Garden early, donning his Josh Hart jersey.
  • "First of all, what a fucking banner week. I’m going to two NBA Finals games and the World Cup in one week." [01:11]
  • Observes that the city doesn’t appear to be in full Knicks regalia on game day, expressing surprise and a bit of disappointment [02:32–02:45].
  • There’s discussion about the struggles, health, and adrenaline of Knicks star players, notably Jalen Brunson, likening the grind of the NBA Finals to the NHL playoffs [03:11].
  • "[Brunson] is just on pure adrenaline and desire and willpower. And so like, it’s unpredictable." – Bradley [03:18]

• Spurs as Formidable Opponent

  • Spurs praised as an “outstanding basketball team," with concern over their consistency and youth. A key stat: the Spurs haven’t lost three consecutive games all season [05:02].

• Fan Experience and Accessibility

  • Discontent over astronomical ticket prices, boxing out loyal, working-class fans in favor of wealthy patrons [10:42].
  • "The notion that you have a society where so many people are food insecure…can pay this kind of money to go to a basketball game…It can’t, it’s not sustainable." – Bradley [10:42–11:10]
  • The community’s frustration is summed up by a Tommy Beer tweet, lamenting loyal fans being priced out and denied access to communal experiences outside MSG [11:10–12:15].

• Politics and Trump at the Garden

  • Considerable time is spent on the expected attendance of Donald Trump at the game, speculation over whether he’ll be introduced, and the likely crowd reaction (booing vs. silence) [07:21–09:09].
  • "Are you worried that if you are seen booing that you Cancer season tickets?…Yes, a little bit." – Bradley [07:30]
  • Observations about how politicians almost never get announced at games due to crowds booing, regardless of their affiliation [07:32–08:13].
  • Musings on the surreal possibility of Knicks fans losing their tickets over politics:
    "One of the great ironies would be Knicks win the title this year…And then I get lose my tickets. I have to become a Nets fan." – Bradley [13:15]

2. From the Knicks to AI Regulation (18:59–28:59)

• Context: Trump’s Recent AI Executive Order

  • Bradley analyzes an executive order from Trump requesting AI companies submit new models to the government for evaluation 30 days pre-release—a mild, industry-friendly move, but a significant shift in political tone [19:10–20:40].
  • "AI, which has never been a darling…When Trump…someone who…the things that normally worry people about AI…doesn’t care about that stuff. Even he's like, 'I gotta do something.'" [20:08–21:09]

• Public Sentiment Turning Against AI

  • Discussion on shifting polling: only 17% of Americans see AI as positive; over 75% fear it could threaten humanity.
    "There was a poll from Penn in March. 17% of Americans think AI will be positive, 42% negative…over 75% [fear] AI could threaten humanity." [21:26]
  • Multiple states, regardless of party, moving quickly to regulate AI and data centers: New York moratorium, energy use regulations, controls on chatbots, etc. [21:26–22:40]

• Advice for AI Founders: Embrace Rather Than Evade Regulation

  • “If you can’t think through here is where I might face difficult legislation…you are in big trouble. Regulatory risk can be just as devastating to your business as getting the tech wrong." – Bradley [23:54]
  • Suggests companies with genuinely strong tech create a regulatory moat by leading compliance, making high standards a competitive advantage [25:48–26:46].
  • “The smart founders and the smart companies will see it and they’ll plan from it and they’ll benefit from it. And the arrogant founders and companies … will suffer.” [28:40–28:59]

3. Pop Culture Interlude: Bradley’s Top 25 TV Shows (29:12–37:07)

• Creating the List

  • Bradley catalogs his favorite 25 TV shows, leading to a rapid-fire discussion of critical picks, omissions, and what makes certain series stand out.
  • "I like lists. And so I decided I would make a list of my top 25 shows ever." [29:48]
  • Notable inclusions: Narcos: Mexico, Fargo (early seasons), Silicon Valley, Homeland, Atlanta, South Park, The Office, Six Feet Under, Arrested Development, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Money Heist, Sons of Anarchy, Friday Night Lights, The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Parks & Rec, Succession, Veep.
  • The Wire is canonically number one:
    "As by statute, The Wire is number one. It has to be." [32:29]
  • Some shows notably absent: Deadwood, Fleabag, The Simpsons, European/Israeli dramas (Borgen, Fauda), The Americans, The Bear.

• Favorite TV Characters

  • When asked for a single favorite character:
    "I kind of like in my own mind to identify with Omar from The Wire." – Bradley [35:56]

4. New York City, Class, and the Evolution of Culture (37:07–43:53)

• NYC as Art Center; Shifting Character

  • The hosts debate Tyler Cowen’s claim that NYC’s rebellious artistic essence is gone, with Bradley countering that such laments are cyclical, and even locals have a limited vantage [37:24–40:19].
  • "Haven’t there been other times where it was like, 'Oh, New York is just for the rich now and all the spirit is gone?'" – Bradley [39:33]
  • A brief look at the closure of beloved diners (Cozy Soup and Burger) as signs of gentrification and changing dining/urban habits [40:36–42:51].
    "I think the nature of NYU itself has changed…It's become…a super, super economically high end place where all the kids are eating Sweet Green.” – Bradley [41:43]

• World Cup Fandom

  • Bradley confesses to being a casual soccer fan, planning to attend Brazil vs. Morocco, but ultimately rooting for Portugal as he pursues citizenship:
    "Then since I'm getting Portuguese citizenship, I’ll say Portugal." [43:42–43:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Knicks Fandom:

  • "The whole city just feels ready for it, you know." – Bradley [02:22]
  • "One of the great ironies would be…First title of my lifetime…And then I get lose my tickets. I have to become a Nets fan." – Bradley [13:15]

• On AI and Regulation:

  • "If you can’t…think through, 'here’s what I need to convince legislators of, here’s where I might face legislation,' you are in big trouble. Regulatory risk can be just as devastating as getting the tech wrong." – Bradley [23:54]
  • "The smart founders and the smart companies will see [regulation] and they’ll benefit from it. The arrogant founders and companies…will suffer." – Bradley [28:40]

• On New York’s Changing Character:

  • "I just feel like of all the people to judge the coolness factor of New York, Tyler Cowan would be like in the bottom decile." – Bradley [40:08]

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Segment Timestamps

• Knicks Mania / City Buzz: 00:00–05:53
• Trump, Politics, and Madison Square Garden: 07:21–13:31
• Ticket Prices and Fan Access: 10:42–12:15
• Knicks Player Legacies: 14:41–17:32
• AI Regulation Discussion: 18:59–28:59
• Top 25 TV Shows: 29:12–37:07
• NYC Art World / Rebellious Spirit Debate: 37:07–40:19
• Closures and Class in NYC: 40:36–42:51
• World Cup Fandom: 42:51–43:53

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The mood is candid, passionate, and at times irreverent—reflecting both hosts’ deep ties to New York and the ways in which pop culture, politics, and technology intersect in everyday life.
• The episode blends micro (personal, cultural) stories with macro (policy, economic, political) trends.
• It’s a time capsule capturing both the fever pitch of the Knicks finals run and the broader anxieties/tensions of 2026, from AI fears to urban gentrification.

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For listeners: If you want a snapshot of NYC at a moment of sports glory—intertwined with politics, economic reality, and a hefty serving of culture—this episode is a rollicking, insightful ride.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome back to Firewall. Happy NBA Finals. We are recording this on June 8th. You'll be listening to this June 9th, but tonight is game three. Nick Spurs. We do have a couple of different topics today, including AI regulation and the kind of stuff, but Bradley can't think about anything.

[B]

First of all, I just want to set the scene here. Bradley showed up. He's wearing his Josh Hart jersey.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Bradley just in a sports jersey in general is a very odd thing. He doesn't quite.

[A]

Lisa this morning, my girlfriend, she was really laughing hard when I left the house just now.

[B]

Wait, you're going home? So it's not that. You mean all day?

[A]

No, no, because I have to get the Garden. So they're saying two hours.

[B]

Should you leave now, do you think? Maybe.

[A]

So there's. I had a. I was supposed to do a dinner and then the game and I canceled the dinner because they're saying two hours. And on one hand it seems ridiculous, the other hand, Jamie and I were talking about it. We're like, let's just go at 6:30.

[B]

Just go and you're. Be with your friends and have fun.

[A]

Yeah, we'll be in the environment and the atmosphere and not worry. In fact, I have the same thing Saturday I've. First of all, what a fucking banner week. I'm going to two NBA finals games and the World cup in one week.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And on Saturday the bus we could get was at 3:30. So we're going to be the World cup like two hours early. But I think that's fine. I think it'll be good to just be out there the whole day, you know? Yeah, yeah, totally.

[B]

Wait, what's the game?

[A]

Brazil.

[B]

Morocco. Okay.

[A]

It should be fun.

[B]

It's like one of the best games in the.

[A]

Yeah, I mean I. In the group round. I got to learn some more rules of soccer before Saturday, you know.

[B]

You know, it's pretty straightforward. You know, you can't.

[A]

You know what they are? Offsides.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

I don't quite know how offsides works.

[B]

It's pretty straightforward. You pick it up really fast if you pay attention to the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You'll understand all the rules in about 10 minutes.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Yeah, I mean. I mean there won't be many offsides at the early going in all likelihood. But whatever you will figure out, it's not.

[A]

That's just soccer. Let's talk about basketball.

[B]

Let's talk about basketball. Who cares?

[A]

How you feeling about tonight?

[B]

Look, as we've discussed, I thought the Knicks would sweep the conference finals.

[A]

You did predict that.

[B]

And then I said we were going

[A]

to lose in seven.

[B]

Six. Yeah. So it's still.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No, I wouldn't put any money on them losing in six. And I also don't want them to lose. I want them to sweep.

[A]

You are.

[B]

And I. I feel like, look, our feelings as fans obviously have no impact on anything, but there is such a charged. Like, the whole city just feels ready

[A]

for it, you know, I have to say, I was just. I ended up taking an Uber over here this morning because I was running late. I was disappointed at the paucity of people wearing Knicks gear.

[B]

Wait, in the morning here, just now, you just thought there'd be more people?

[A]

I said everybody would be.

[B]

You thought, would I be?

[A]

I wasn't sure about you, but I just thought, like, I don't think I passed anyone in Nick's gear. There's that big Brunson mural they painted a few blocks down.

[B]

Did anyone say anything to you in your hard jersey?

[A]

Well, I was in an Uber.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

So the Uber driver did not take the notice. But anyway. But tonight's game, you feel like they're gonna win?

[B]

Yes, I do. But I also feel like, you know, one of the things that I was thinking about this last night, the NBA Finals feels like hockey in a weird way. You know, at the end, you don't watch hockey, but the playoffs are an insane grind where guys are playing really hurt, you know, and they'll find out later, oh, he played with, like, broken ankle. And that happens, like, every year. And I feel that's a little bit like, where Brunson is now. Like, he is just on pure adrenaline and desire and willpower. And so, like, it's unpredictable. He has not played well in long stretches of both games yet came through hugely. So it's just a very chaotic.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. So I was thinking, if this were hockey, and by the way, Lyle and I did watch a little bit of the Stanley cup on Saturday night.

[B]

Don't tell anyone. Don't tell. Don't tell the group.

[A]

But if. And Mitch seems okay, but if he weren't in hockey, they sort of cut the pinky off, right?

[B]

Yeah. They wouldn't even discuss a pinky.

[A]

Would never have come up. Right.

[B]

Exactly. It wouldn't even be something that would be. Nobody would even. Yeah. Talk. Yeah.

[A]

Although I guess your hands are a little less. In hockey, it's pretty significant. Each individual finger.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. The amount of, like, what you do with the stick is pretty. Pretty delicate.

[A]

But the.

[B]

But the. But still, there's the guy's hands are really fucked up by this point.

[A]

So the bad news or the thing that makes me the most anxious is very simple, which is just the spurs are an outstanding basketball team. Right?

[B]

Totally. I don't even know he coached. However, this.

[A]

This series. Yeah. I don't even know if they've lost three straight the whole season. Right. So, you know, just physically speaking, a team that good, that will, by the way, probably win a bunch of NBA finals in the future because their best players are, respectively, 22, 20 and 21 is.

[B]

Gemini says, no, they've not lost three consecutive games this season.

[A]

Yeah. Right. So that's the. That's the real concern. The flip side, like you said, is I would say JB has come through, but especially game two, he did not have a great game at all.

[B]

No.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Seven for 25.

[A]

Yeah. So I think maybe tonight he's ready to come back. Hopefully Cat can keep this up. I can't imagine Bridges shoots as well as he did in game two, because that was insane. But you know who has not had a big shooting game yet is Hart.

[B]

Yeah, you're right.

[A]

He's been doing the hardest stuff.

[B]

Do you feel like you can bring something?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's. I thought so. Yeah, of course. And then. And then Kat's been amazing. Maybe Shamma can keep this up. So. And then the calls, really? I listen. Yeah. But she listen to basketball podcast nonstop. There seems to be a lot of consensus that the game two calls were very slanted against the Knicks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So maybe the refs are instructed to just even it out a bit. Or maybe Adam Silver's like, well, they

[B]

definitely don't want to sweep.

[A]

They don't. They don't. And like, I guess I don't think

[B]

we're counting the ref to even it up.

[A]

How much do the refs fix the game? Well, I do believe that. I do believe the NBA fixes rigs the lottery. Right.

[B]

We had an argument or a discussion about this the other night. Bradley had a watch party on Friday for Game 2, and there was no one agreed with you that the lottery is fixed.

[A]

Jeff did. Jeff Pollock.

[B]

Oh, did he?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I guess, you know, when Howard disagrees, it feels like there's major disagreement. There's something about the weight of his disagreement.

[A]

Yeah. He has gravitas. So I don't know, man. And then the other thing is, I saw a quote from Wemby and I don't, you know, he. First of all, he's a kid, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they said, well, you've never been in an environment like he's about to come into tonight. He's like, well, I played in the Olympics. And that's true. He played for France in Paris in the gold medal game. Obviously, it's a huge deal, but this is going to be fucking, I think, crazier and hostile.

[B]

It's going to be really hostile towards him.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, really. And so it's going to be.

[B]

Don't you kind of hope they save it for the President a little bit?

[A]

It's going to be a mix of the two. Yeah. Well, no. You know, the funny thing is, I don't think any Knicks fans hate Wemby. Right. We want to beat him, but we don't hate him. I like Wemby.

[B]

I like Wemby, too. If he has placed with a lot of.

[A]

If he had lost to Cleveland, I would have been ready for the spurs, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. They're a likable team overall.

[A]

Yeah, I like them. So Trump's a whole different story. But are you.

[B]

Okay. Let me just ask you. Let's talk about Trump at the game for one second.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you worried that if you are seen booing that you Cancer season tickets?

[A]

Yes, a little bit.

[B]

You are?

[A]

I am.

[B]

So what are you gonna do?

[A]

What do you think I'm gonna do? I think you're gonna boo, of course. Well, but here's the thing.

[B]

You don't sit with Howard, right? Cause he'll probably.

[A]

No, I'll be sitting with my dad, Jamie and Gretchen, and then Lyle's coming in for game four. But no, but here's the thing. I mean, I still. I know we were debating this other night because it's Trump. You just. I don't think anyone knows what he's gonna do, including him, until it happens. But traditionally, and this is an area of expertise that I have, politicians almost never get announced at sporting events because it is so the nature of the crowd to boo them, whoever it is, that it's very rare. It happens.

[B]

It doesn't happen with Obama, though.

[A]

Does he get always introduced?

[B]

I've seen him introduced. I feel like it's funny now. I'm like, have I. But I feel like it's a teacher

[A]

TV panning on him is different than being introduced to the crowd.

[B]

But Trump will be introduced to the crowd.

[A]

Like I was at a Knicks game where both Bloomberg and Mondami were there. Neither of them were introduced.

[B]

Right. But this is different.

[A]

Well, or the White House might request that he not be.

[B]

Oh, come On Trump, just Trump sit quietly up in the luxury box.

[A]

But if they know that he's gonna be viciously booed or, by the way, what would be worse? Booing or just total silence?

[B]

I like total silence.

[A]

I think so, too.

[B]

But that's gonna be hard to organize.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because there are gonna be some assholes cheering. So it's happened.

[A]

Correct. So. And it's. Keep in mind, you know, it's gonna be a very highly rated game. So you're gonna have a lot of people watching all over the country. I don't know that they want to risk that.

[B]

I agree that they wouldn't want to risk it, but it's up to.

[A]

He's very reckless and risky in some ways, but he's very chicken shit in others.

[B]

So, look, he thinks he's the most popular president of all time. I bet he thinks I'm gonna show them. My people are gonna be in here tonight.

[A]

Let me flip it around, though. So at a UFC fight. Yes. But this. All the stories about tickets. The cheapest tickets are six, seven grand, whatever it is. Right. It's rich New Yorkers at this point. And, you know, who has scorned him his entire life. Rich New Yorkers.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Except, like, who are the rich New Yorkers who are gonna be there tonight? It's gonna be a lot of, like, guys buying tickets for, like, 25 grand who are not, like, his New York establishment or, like, people who run banks.

[A]

Like, guys who are, like, traders.

[B]

Yeah. It's going to be a bunch of jackasses who probably love him. So, like, the.

[A]

Yeah, maybe.

[B]

I mean, I don't think that. I still think, you know, New York, look it up.

[A]

Are there odds on Kalshee of Trump getting booed at the game?

[B]

I'm going to look it up. You know, so booing is a tough thing.

[A]

It's hard to write. How would you judge it? Right. Maybe he can't. Maybe he can't take a bet on that one because he can't really judge it.

[B]

They just have the odds of him attending that I can find here. It's funny, still only at 82% went up. Things could go 93% that he's attending.

[A]

Okay. He is the president.

[B]

He's going.

[A]

Yeah. But there could be something that happens where he can't go. Wow.

[B]

Ticket prices have fallen slightly.

[A]

Yeah, I've noticed that.

[B]

Yeah. They're down to 6k.

[A]

Yeah. Cheap from. From over 8 now. Anybody could go, by the way, just the notion that you have a society where so many people are Food insecure. So many people struggle to pay rent and then people can pay this kind of money to go to a basketball game. Like, and by the way, I'm obviously the beneficiary of this type of society, but it can't, it's not sustainable. You got to find a way to even share.

[B]

Well, let me, let me read you a. I don't want to read you like, you know, Tommy Beers, the, the, the sort of Nick's social media. I don't know if he's guru, but he's definitely someone who people pay.

[A]

I only really know him because you sent me stuff from him.

[B]

Yeah, he's, he's, he's generally great. Let me read what he said and you can just tell me your reaction to it. Yeah, sort of a long tweet. First, the loyal fans who supported the Knicks for decades when the team sucked, emptying their wallets for tickets, shirts, jerseys get priced out of the building when New York finally reaches the finals by insanely wealthy patrons willing, capable of casually blowing 20k on a pair of tickets to a basketball game. Many of them just hopped on the bandwagon or purchased ticks to Game 3 solely because Madison Square Garden is, quote, the place to be this week. Then those same loyal working class fans get a second middle, middle finger from ownership due to Dylan's desire to host Trump. Thousands of diehard Knicks fans are denied the chance to gather outside the Garden, watch the games on a big screen and, and share a once in a lifetime moment with the community that helped keep this franchise alive when nobody else cared. Access is reserved for the rich, powerful and or connected, not the fans who stuck with his team through 20 years of misery.

[A]

He's right. Now, has it also Tommy Beer?

[B]

By the way, I said Beers, but Tommy Beer.

[A]

Has it been like, has Dolan actually said publicly that if you boo, you'll get in trouble? Or is that just like a rumor?

[B]

I've not seen him say that.

[A]

Or the Knicks said it like I've. Because here's the thing. I, I did get an email from the Knicks, you know, just that they sent to the season ticket holders. I guess about like, you know, you can't bring any bags. You got to get there two hours early. They didn't mention Trump or booing in it.

[B]

I don't think you could. Right. There is no record of Knicks owner James Dolan warning fans not to boo.

[A]

Yeah, here's my guess, because it'd be

[B]

like inviting you to do it all.

[A]

If they announce him, I'm sure they Will say, please be Knicks fans. Be respectful, give a warm welcome for our president. That kind of shit, which everyone will ignore, I hope. Yeah, I will.

[B]

I mean, I feel like what I was gonna say before is, like, even with whoever has bought tickets at ridiculous prices is gonna be in there. New York still has a way of being New York, and I feel like the ethos of the place will be hostile to the President.

[A]

One of the great ironies would be Knicks win the title this year. I've been a fan my whole life. First title of my lifetime. If they win, you know, I've had, between the ones now with Jamie and the ones with Howard, probably about 10 years worth of season tickets. And then I get lose my tickets. I have to become a Nets fan.

[B]

Well, you know, the funny thing is I was debating this with a friend last night, you know, like, the. He was like, oh, God, think of how sad the Nets are. Like, they're like. They're nothing. You know, like, they had five picks in the first round last year, and then nothing panned out. They suck. And I was like, they're the youngest team in the NBA.

[A]

Like, their GM seems terrible, though.

[B]

Well, I mean, he's definitely not shine, but they believe in his vision of, like, you know, building the draft pick sort of vault. And like, you know, they have 15

[A]

picks, but they've got to make good picks for it to work.

[B]

Well, you know, they had the youngest team, so, like, they weren't expected to, like, be awesome.

[A]

Sam Hinkey, in the process, had all those picks. The only one that turned out was Embiid, and that was pretty mixed.

[B]

Yeah, but then there's Oklahoma City. That. All those picks, too, and look what they're doing.

[A]

Well, there's a point you got to get them right.

[B]

Yeah, well, I just don't know that we know he's gotten them wrong yet. That's all I'm saying.

[A]

We don't know.

[B]

We don't know.

[A]

But have you. Can you name one of the five?

[B]

You know, I looked up the names of five, and I was surprised how little I knew about any of them. But that's fine. I didn't pay attention.

[A]

They play in the city we live in.

[B]

I know, I know, but the Knicks, like, you know, blotted out the sun. I mean, they were the most exciting thing in New York sports in our lifetime. So I would. If.

[A]

If they win, I'm really jumping the gun. But if they win the title, whether they win tonight or not. When Brunson retires, his jersey immediately is hung from the rafters.

[B]

Oh, yeah. They might bang it like, tonight. Two days.

[A]

So. Okay, so that's an arm. What about Kat?

[B]

Well, yeah, Cat's a little more like. Like, it depends on what else he does like, because they'll. They'll want to reward Brunson right away and then Kat is.

[A]

But they won't. They won't put up his jersey till he retires. Of course.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So, Kat, let's assume he signs the extension. So he's got the next year, the contract plus four more. So he plays five more years for the Knicks. So it'll be like seven, I think. Hall of Famer. Right. Again, this assumes they've won the title. So brought you the first title. Hall of Famer played for you for seven years. And let's assume he might not be great by the end of it because he'll be kind of old and we'll be angry that he's sucking up somewhere to the cap space. But it'll be interesting.

[B]

It'll be right on the board of the 90s Knicks. Only Ewing. Yes.

[A]

They didn't win.

[B]

They didn't win. And. And the only other person you probably even think about is Starks, maybe, right?

[A]

No, because he's there the whole time. He's not good enough.

[B]

No, I agree. He's not good enough.

[A]

But, like, Tal is just much better than Starks.

[B]

No, I agree. I'm just. I'm just trying to like, put the.

[A]

But the whole starting five of those 70 teams are in there. Are. Have all there, plus the coach. So you have. You have Clyde, Willis, Bradley, DeBusscher, Monroe and Barnett. Because I think 70 was one of 73 was another one. But plus red. So that's seven. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Towns, that tell you that I

[B]

was but one championship, as amazing as it seems right now. And it will be amazing if they don't win again. And Towns gets hurt a lot. It's a little varied. The trajectory could change.

[A]

I agree, though. The goodwill is going to last for a long time.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, for the rest of our lives.

[A]

Do you know that I was so. I knew Red a tiny bit when I was. When he was much older. Because when I was a cabana boy at the Sands Beach Club in Atlantic beach, he had a cabana. Really nice guy, incredibly nice man. And then ironically, the people who sit next to me own the Sands. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it all comes full circle.

[B]

So you are betting on a sweep.

[A]

I know you're not betting on a sweep. No, no, I would never Jinx us like that. So I'm sticking with my Knicks and

[B]

six picks and any idea of. So if there's a game five or game seven in San Antonio, would you go?

[A]

You know, probably not. Just because I've really enjoyed. I think I would enjoy more being

[B]

with your friends and like.

[A]

Yeah. Plus Lyle can't. If Lyle could go, maybe. Yes. But because he's at this program in school, I think I would rather just watch with my friends. Yeah.

[B]

What more would you like to say about the Knicks?

[A]

I think we've covered it, don't you?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And we'll be talking more about it. I think this will not be our last conversation about the Knicks.

[A]

No, I suspect it will not.

[B]

All right, everybody. I wonder. So on Tuesday, it'll be interesting to see how this sounds when whatever happens, right? Like idiots tonight. Well, it won't be idiots because we're not predicting a win. And we'll know, like, in some ways our expectations on, like, the Trump thing are useful because, like, once whatever happens happens, like, everybody will have their immediate conclusions. But what did we. What did we think was going to happen is the kind of interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think he's gonna be announced and I think he will be booed, but it won't be crazy. It won't be enough to feel like, wow, he really got it thrown in his face. That's what I think will happen. And that'll be very disappointing to me

[A]

because there'll be a lot of people there who like him because it'll just be sort of like the vibes are so good that people won't want.

[B]

Well, I think partially the vibes are so good. Right. So no one's going there wanting to feel bad. Right. People are going there to celebrate, like, this thing. And it's gonna be hard to generate the like. Although people will have also waited in line for a long time. Some people will.

[A]

If that's all fucked up, people will

[B]

be annoyed and it's gonna be fucked up.

[A]

Or people will get there super early and start drinking.

[B]

Yeah. Ooh, yeah.

[A]

That could also happen.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That'll be like. You know that thing about America's not drinking anymore?

[A]

Well, it's not tonight. Not tonight. Yep. Garden runs out of boost by 7:30.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right. Let's do something substantive.

[B]

Let's do your AI regulatory thing. And then we're talking about TV TV shows, too. Bradley ranked his top 20 TV shows after that in a minute. Why don't you start?

[A]

So here's this. So this is my substack that comes out Tuesday. And it was because Trump announced a executive order last week around AI that I'll get into in a second. But it felt to me so back, like, almost 10 years ago. Josh Hawley at the time was the Attorney General of Missouri. Now he's a pretty prominent U.S. senator. And I just remember reading Hawley announces antitrust investigation to Google. I remember thinking, first of all, how much authority does the Missouri AG have into this, number one. But then, number two, what it said to me immediately was, okay, everything has changed. Google was sort of the delight of the world. Don't be evil. Everyone's like, oh, yeah, and I like Google, by the way, but. And then I was like, oh, his polling shows that his base at this point hates the big tech companies, and that's why he's doing this, right? He's a politician.

[B]

Just apply the Bradley Tusk math, right?

[A]

And it was, you know, I remember thinking, the worm has turned, right? Everything's changed. And then it kind of flowed from there. You know, tech founders who got these, like, you know, fawning magazine covers and lavish praise just started getting the shit kicked out of them publicly. And, like, sentiment really turned hard against sort of Silica Valley, right? AI, which has never been a darling, by the way. But when Trump. So Trump's policy specifically says that on a voluntary basis, they would like the Frontier models to submit their new AI models 30 days before the release so the government can evaluate them. And there's a benchmarking process to establish the advanced cyber capabilities capabilities of AI models. It's super industry friendly. It was watered down. It's an extremely mild executive order. But considering that Trump has been such a staunch proponent of AI, and he loves Sam Altman, he loves OpenAI, I think it's a pretty clear indication that it has shifted so far that even someone who's a huge supporter like Trump, someone who. The things that normally worry people about AI, like people losing their jobs or catastrophic harm, that kind of stuff, doesn't worry at all. He doesn't care about that stuff. And even he's like, I gotta do something, right? And I think that what that represented is just this overall recognition that the people of at least this country are really anti AI. And there's some polling. I think we talked this on a previous podcast. There was a poll from Penn in March. 17% of Americans think AI will be positive, 42% negative. There's another one that says that the share of Americans fear that AI could threaten humanity is at over 75%. There's a Goldman Sachs study that says that at least 2 1/2 percent, but more like 7% of U.S. jobs in the next couple of years will be lost because of AI. 41% of working Americans say they're worried about losing their jobs because of AI. And that's already. Again, the premise of this entire podcast is every policy output is the result of a political input. We're seeing it. So that's the political inputs are all the polling. I just said the policy outputs. So a couple days ago, New York's legislature passed a one year moratorium on data center construction. We'll see if the governor signs it. And in Maine and Vermont, that was passed too. They were both vetoed, but they're gonna come back. Florida, Utah, California, Ohio, Washington, Oklahoma all enacted new regulations, the energy use cost allocation from data centers, meaning that they can't pass along the cost to regular consumers. Washington, Oregon, Maine, Idaho, Nebraska passed bills regulating what chatbots can say and do. Indiana, Arizona passed bills regulating AI and health care. The national association of Insurance Commissioners set up model rules around governance, documentation, testing and third party oversight for AI for insurance. 24 states adopted that. And there's no partisan divide here, right? It's blue states, it's red states, it's Republican legislators and governors, it's Democratic legislators and governors. And the reason why is when the voters hate something this much, their politicians hate it too. And so it's from a regulatory standpoint, a very perilous time for AI. And then keep in mind, if a Democrat wins the presidency in 28 and Kalshee, last I checked, had it at 59, 40, 41 Democrat, it will probably come amid an even further rising wave of AI sentiment, which is going to leave even more regulation at the federal level stacked on top of state regulation, stacked on top of municipal regulation. And we're probably at this moment the most permissive we're ever going to get when it comes to AI from a regulatory standpoint. And I would say that if I were an AI founder, corporate leader, whatever it is, and this is not untrue to kind of what I saw with Uber and then built a whole venture business around, which is you got to understand the politics. It doesn't matter how transformational your model is, if you don't understand the regulatory risk that you're facing, if you can't think through, here is where I might face difficult legislation. Here are the legislators who would be for it, here's why they would be for it, here's what they care about, here's What I need to be able to convince them of, to shape them in a way that works for me. And if you can't do all of that, you are in big trouble. Regulatory risk can be just as devastating to your business as getting the tech wrong, as getting the marketing wrong, getting the fundraising wrong, or anything else. This is the first time with AI that I have felt that level of. This is as critical risk. Yeah. This level of risk, like I did with tech in general, which is literally what led to me starting Touch Ventures. Right. And I think that a lot of the normal tactics that are used that I think are assumed by people who think they know everything, but really don't, especially about politics, like, oh, I'll just write a bunch of checks, or I'll just fund attack ads. Those aren't working. Right. Like, OpenAI is funding all of these attack ads against Alex Boris, who's running for Congress here in Manhattan and is propelling his campaign. My hope is, of course I like Alex, but they will not win because our friend Micah, last year's running as well and worked for Micah, but nonetheless, OpenAI, in trying to kill him is

[B]

actually, it's making him stronger.

[A]

Making him stronger because people fucking hate OpenAI so much, even though they do use ChatGPT. Right? And so I think you got to understand it. But I also think, by the way, there's opportunity. So there's going to be a very tough and very fast changing regulatory environment. But if your tech is really good and is not slop and has higher standards in whatever it is, especially if it's something that touches a consumer, my argument is lean into it. Right? Don't try to hide, don't try to fight it. Say, okay, we can meet these types of standards, our competitors cannot. Let's proactively push AI regulatory ideas. Let's push new laws, let's push new rulemaking and have it say, this is what must be done for it to be legal and create a regulatory moat where your product meets those standards, others do not. And that really gives you a first mover advantage in the marketplace.

[B]

Well, I think you've hit on exactly the. The right thing, which is people look at this as being really good for big business, right. That they're gonna be able to like AI, Right. That they're gonna be able to slash costs, get rid of headcount, all this stuff. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what you need to show is what's the advantage for small business, for individuals, for customers, and how does your life improve? How do your prospects in whatever field you're in get better. And that's the part. I mean, there was just something in Axios today where I guess OpenAI is moving towards more of a, you know, focus on, like, developers and corporate customers, because Anthropic's been really successful at that. And there's actually a line there says chat is dead. Right? That's what that. That's what the active thing. And you're like, whoa.

[A]

So they're the devaluing chat, meaning chatgpt?

[B]

Yeah, like the chat platform of just like, hey, like, what are the Knicks

[A]

going to win tonight? It'll exist. Because I think.

[B]

No, they're just saying as a. As a priority of. Chat's obviously not dead.

[A]

Well, I think, look, we went through in extraordinary detail last week a potential OpenAI IPO. And I think that was part of the case that I was making was that the business model for just people basically using it as, like a search engine is not nearly good enough to justify the kind of valuations that their OpenAI is getting and the kind of debt that it has to pay.

[B]

But totally.

[A]

Right, but that's why it has to go to enterprise.

[B]

But people like it, right? So. So, you know, it is fun. You know, we're sitting around watching the basketball game, like. Like, Howard was like, you know, on. On, like on Claude the whole time, just like solving little problems, you know, like, it was fun. Like, it was just like, you know, you have.

[A]

Yeah, we'd ask a question.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. We'd be like, oh, there's like, you know, George Girvin, Is he like the.

[A]

It was a particularly inquisitive group. Mike Pesco was. It was like a very nerdy, very intellectual, intense Knicks fans group.

[B]

It was. It was a very intense Knicks fan group.

[A]

Yeah, it was actually great. So, anyway, the point is this. I think that whenever there's a world where there is regulatory opportunity and regulatory risk, it means you just have to be smart. And the smart founders and the smart companies will see it and they'll plan from it and they'll benefit from it. And the arrogant founders and companies and the clueless founders and companies will suffer.

[B]

Let's talk about tv. This is really our most, like, insane episode ever in terms of, like, variety, pivots and serious subjects, whatever culture, AI, regulation.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, totally. So the thing here. So I've been watching and I think I've already used this recommendation at one point, Sons of Anarchy, which is not

[B]

a new show at all.

[A]

It's been around for a long time. I started watching it and I'VE just been plowing through it. I'm now almost.

[B]

Oh, you're not done.

[A]

It's seven seasons and I'm at season six, episode nine or ten and it's fantastic. And I was just thinking about like where would I put this on my list of all time shows? And there's nothing Hugo likes more than lists.

[B]

And is that true? There's nothing I like more than lists.

[A]

There's nothing. But you like lists.

[B]

That feels.

[A]

You like lists. You're a magazine guy.

[B]

I wasn't a list guy.

[A]

I know, but I like lists. And so I decided I would make a list of my top 25 shows ever.

[B]

Do you want to go from the bottom? Sure. Okay.

[A]

So number 25.

[B]

I have some comments when we're done.

[A]

Narcos. Mexico. Specifically Mexico. Number 24. Ozark. Number 23. The first few seasons of Fargo, it trailed off.

[B]

How many? Like two, three?

[A]

Yeah, about that.

[B]

The first season was amazing. Incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think the like the best written show that where I was just like. It was like. I don't want to say it was like a novel or whatever, but I just remember being struck.

[A]

I was like, Noah Hawley. Yeah, well, he wrote. He wrote it. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Noah Hawley's a genius.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ye. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think he's related to Josh Hawley of the previous topic.

[B]

I hope not.

[A]

22. Silicon Valley.

[B]

Another well written show.

[A]

21. The Pit. 20. Homeland. Although I would say Homeland was amazing. And then it kind of fell off for a bit and then it kind of came back.

[B]

I agree. It had some dips or a dip.

[A]

19. Atlanta. But again, I would say, I don't know, there may be four or five seasons of Atlanta. I said the last one was not very good at all.

[B]

And also the first season was just mind blowing. Great.

[A]

But. Yeah, but it's a great show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that. Was that 1918 South park, which I have to say I haven't watched all 30 seasons but. But I've watched enough of it. Number 17 is less known. Party Down. Have you seen it?

[B]

No, that was the only one that I've not seen.

[A]

It is about caterers in LA and it's really fucking funny. I think there's only two seasons or one season, but it was great. 18. The Office. The US version.

[B]

Okay. No, UK.

[A]

I mean I know that like the cognitive.

[B]

This is a very American centric list, by the way.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. 17. The Good Place. 16. Six Feet Under. 15. The People vs. O.J. simpson. 14. Arrested Development. 1330 Rock. 12. Curb. Youb Enthusiasm. 11. Money Heist. That's not American.

[B]

That's, like, the only one besides Narcos, right?

[A]

I think so, yeah. 10. Sons of Anarchy. 9. Friday Night Lights. I think I've lost the. Maybe the math here. 8. Succession. Yeah, it's definitely wrong. 7. Veep. 6. Parks in rack. 5. Wrecking bad.

[B]

4.

[A]

Sopranos. 3. The wire. Somehow two got lost. Are you sure this. This is the whole list that I clipped it. Is there another page?

[B]

No. Narcos was definitely the bottom, and wire

[A]

was 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20. Yeah, there's. I. I just listed 25 shows. Although I up the. The numbering. But anyway, so, you know, let me

[B]

say a couple things.

[A]

As by statute, the Wire is number one. It has to be.

[B]

And if. If we're. There are only 22, that has the top three spots.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So there's a few things missing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

First of all, the first thing I thought is, like, some of my favorite shows are way older because these are all. These are all in the 20th century or 21st century. So, like, shows that I loved.

[A]

I think you had more. You might have grown up with a.

[B]

More.

[A]

You're a little older than me. Yeah. And I think you might have grown up.

[B]

Don't remind people that.

[A]

In a more permissive TV environment. My mom was pretty strict about it. I didn't watch a lot of TV growing up.

[B]

Right. And you haven't gone back and watched, like, because a lot of those shows are still available.

[A]

I could. I haven't yet.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So the show that I love is Hill Street Blues. Now, a sort of interim. Like, it was a 90s show that I think went into the 2000s called Cracker with Robbie Coltrane about a police psychologist. Amazing show. And it sort of preceded a lot of the kind of prestige TV boom, but, like, incredible show and built around an amazing, like, volatile character played by Robbie Coltrane, who's a wonderful actor, but of the. Of just on your sort of terrain. This first one that really stands out, not being on there is Deadwood. Nate, did you not like Deadwood?

[A]

I'm shining to the West.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I. I know people think it's great.

[B]

I remember not liking. And then I went down to kind of David Milch, Rabbit Hole, and I read his book and all that. And then I really grew to love Deadwood, although I did not like it at first.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Fleabag is one of my favorite.

[A]

I didn't like it. I know everyone liked it. I just didn't like it.

[B]

The Simpsons didn't make your list.

[A]

Yeah, I love the Simpsons. It could have. It just didn't.

[B]

And then some European shows. Like I would have thought Borgin would

[A]

be on there and that.

[B]

You like Borg. Okay.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

And there's not an Israeli show on

[A]

there, you know, so Fouda could have been. I, you know, maybe I'm just sort of. So like I just associate Israel right now with stress.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That maybe I just avoided it.

[B]

American's not on there, you know.

[A]

I know. And it's not that I didn't like it. I didn't see all of it. I just. It never quite. I watched a bunch of it, but it never quite grabbed me in the way it seemed to everyone else.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I thought it was sleepy and like.

[A]

Yeah. And I know people thought it was. Just a lot of people would put it right towards the top of their list.

[B]

Yeah. And then a show that we both sort of discovered kind of at the same time. The Bear. Loved that first season.

[A]

First season or first two seasons I thought were incredible. And there were other shows on here where I was willing to put it on just for that. But I found the third season so like, it wasn't just bad, it was like offensively bad.

[B]

I thought the second season wasn't good

[A]

either, but actually I said it was so like self righteously bad then I didn't even watch after that. So that was why.

[B]

Any shows that you're a little embarrassed to like, I mean, any reality TV ever get your attention for a minute?

[A]

You know, when I was. When the Real World first came out, I watched it first, completely enjoyed it.

[B]

That's way back. That's early 90s.

[A]

Yeah. I liked Top Chef early on. The kids liked it. I just haven't watched a ton of reality TV and I haven't really watched that many game shows. I used to like Bullseye.

[B]

I don't even know what that is.

[A]

It was a game show in the 80s.

[B]

So is that when you watch with your parents?

[A]

Basically, my grandmother.

[B]

Okay. Single favorite character. Keeping in mind that it does not have to be the lead character.

[A]

Well, I kind of like in my own mind to identify with Omar from the Wire.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

You see that?

[B]

And more than Stringer.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I mean, Omar.

[A]

I mean, not that Stringer's even cooler and more impressive, but in terms of being sort of. I just. Omar feels like a fit to me.

[B]

Anyone else even in the conversation. Saul and Breaking Bad or, you know, Carrie Matheson, Homeland.

[A]

In terms of like who I Think I identify with?

[B]

No, just love. Like, when you think, you know, oh,

[A]

so many, then, you know, I mean, fucking everyone in Parks and Rec, right? Like, just the whole cast and everyone in Veep and all the kids in Friday Night Lights and, you know, the Jax Teller in Sons of Anarchy. I mean, just, you know, a lot of the more ensemble cast, especially the comedies, you know, I just kind of love all of them. But I would say if there's a single character on all the shows in this list that I identify with, it's. It's Omar. Omar.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're going to do a couple of quick questions. So Tyler Cowen, who does not really like New York City, I don't think, but he wrote this recently. New York City is no longer the center of the art world. High rents being one reason for that, but not the only one. It is simply no longer the city's essence, the rebellious spirit.

[A]

What's he basing that?

[B]

Largely gone? Well, he was talking about art centers in general, and he couldn't name a place that had become sort of.

[A]

And here's the thing. So here's my guess, and I've only met Tyler once or twice, but

[B]

he

[A]

lives in Virginia somewhere.

[B]

And

[A]

I just don't the odds that he knows what's going on in Bushwick or Jackson Heights or the South Bronx or wherever stuff is getting made now, it's zero.

[B]

Right. But he's able to see what percolates up.

[A]

But all he's able to do is look at, like. Yes, but percolates up to fucking, you know, Virginia. Like, here's the thing in. Now we can look at all these artists from the 80s in New York, but, like, when Basquiat was first working, no one knew who he was. Right? So, like, I don't know, like, history,

[B]

judges, a perfect example. Right? So the city that he's part of was a truly kind of frontier for artists. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Very rebellious.

[A]

Here's my point. Like, I don't know. Here's the thing. I don't think you and I know, and we live here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Tyler Cowan doesn't know at all. So, like, my only point is you have to be of the art world. And not even necessarily the, you know, Hauser and Worth art world, but, like, of the much more fringe.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I think to know what great work is being made right now. So if you ask the curator at PS1, I'd be curious more about. I would take their answer.

[B]

Should we get the curator at PS1 to come on the show?

[A]

Sure. I think There's a couple of them. I would take their answer a lot more seriously than Tyler Cowan.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But he's giving a point that he

[B]

concludes on, though the rebellious spirit is largely gone. Do you.

[A]

I mean, so the argument. And I wonder if these two things weren't. I don't know when he made this case, but you know, the Knicks prices that we were talking about earlier sort of fits his argument very, very well. But you know what, haven't there been other times where it was like, oh, New York is just for the rich now and all the spirit is gone?

[B]

Yeah, they wrote about that in like the 1920s in Greenwich Village, right?

[A]

Yeah. So, like, I just think that comes and goes. Look, I think there are society and economy more stratified than ever. So that would support Kalan Zara Minute. He is an economist. But I think this stuff sort of waxes and wanes a little bit. And by the way, even though I've come to sort of really not think he's doing much of a good job, but electing someone like Zoran Mandami is a rebellious act in and of itself.

[B]

Yeah, I guess he would think differently, that it's sort of a mood affiliation thing, not like a real rebellious thing.

[A]

I mean, could be, but we'll see. But just the point is, I just feel like of all the people to judge the coolness factor of New York, Tyler Cowan would be like in the

[B]

bottom decile cozy soup and burger right off Astor Place on Broadway is closing. Sort of a beloved spot. It was celebrated for years.

[A]

This fits Tyler Cowen's argument, actually.

[B]

Why did those businesses not?

[A]

Well, just a few things. So one is the diner.

[B]

Aren't we longing for that kind of sense of community and regular guy stuff?

[A]

Yes, I would say a few things. One is that place specifically, it didn't have, in the times that I went there, like, incredible food. There are diners that also have amazing food. Like, it was fine, but it was like a, you know, NYU place. Right. And so part of it is, I think that the nature of NYU itself has changed. It has become what Tyler Cowan's talking about, sort of a super, super economically high end place where all the kids are eating sweet green and getting everything delivered via door dash. That's number one. So I think the nature of that has changed. Number two, dining trends shift over time. And also people are at the higher end of society, meaning the higher income end of society, which includes a lot of people who live. To live in the Village. You have to be pretty rich or have rich Parents. That's where cozy is. It's right by your apartment. And rich people tend to eat a lot healthier these days. And that's not the kind of food that they serve at the Cozy Burger. So that's number two. Number three, New York did, I think take a hit during COVID that has not fully recovered? Maybe never. Well, where we're less of a late night town than we used to be. And I think things that were like overnight all night, I think the culture changed. Maybe it comes back one day, maybe it doesn't. But right now it's not there. So things like an all night diner just are less likely to be successful in this.

[B]

In the. In the positive developments category. Veselka just went back to 24 hours in the.

[A]

Yeah, and I fucking love Veselka. And by the way, it's always crowded. I had dinner there a month ago, six weeks ago, and it was packed.

[B]

Well, it's an example too. They, they have things there that you can't get everywhere.

[A]

And I mean, it's really.

[B]

It's pierogies.

[A]

Right. The Ukrainian, Ukrainian diner. The Ukrainian food is fantastic. And I have, you know, I used to live right around there. So I have. That was always my. That. Do you remember Odessa on Avenue A? Of course I used to. Those were the two places.

[B]

Is it superior to burger in the Odessa spot? It is next door.

[A]

Yeah, it is, yeah. Which is cool that they, they took it over because it is. If you want a tofu burger, it is excellent. It is, yeah.

[B]

I like it. World cup. Is there a team other than the US that you would root for?

[A]

I don't care. Just to be clear. Yeah, I don't even care who wins the Brazil, Morocco game that I go to. Just. I think it'd be cool for a country that's never won before. Give me one to win.

[B]

Give me one.

[A]

I don't even necessarily know who's playing. So. Morocco. I don't know Morocco, but I mean like Brazil, Argentina, France, Germany.

[B]

That's it. Did you like any of the big teams?

[A]

I would be more. If you're asking me who I'd like to see win, it would be not one of those.

[B]

Not France, not Spain.

[A]

I don't have any. Like, oh, the people of Spain have really suffered. By the way. I fucking love Spain. It's an amazing country. Right, but is Portugal in the World Cup?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, then since I'm getting Portuguese citizenship, I'll say Portugal.

[B]

Oh my God, you should definitely say that.

[A]

Is Israel in the World Cup?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, then. I'll go Portugal.

[B]

Okay, Portugal it is. Good luck tonight, Bradley.

[A]

All right, go. Next. Firewall is recorded at my bookstore, pnt. Net, where located at 180 Orchard street on the lower east side of Manhattan. We'd love to hear from you with questions, feedbacks or idea for a guest. Just email me at Bradleyirewall Media or find me on LinkedIn. And to keep up with what's on my mind and my latest writing, please follow my new [e-mail] thanks again for listening.