Loading summary
Transcript275 lines
- [00:00]
Bradley
Foreign. Welcome back to Firewall. I am very excited today because my guest is a member of. Now, my tie for first favorite here, former member of my tied for first favorite team. I normally would have said the mess for my favorite team, but at the moment I can't quite say that, but Adam Otavino. So first of all, thank you for coming. And I don't know if you know this, but so my kids go to friends seminary. Hugo's did too. And because you went to Berkeley Carroll, you get brought up a lot as, like, the real anomaly of, you know, there's a league of schools. I mean, you played in this, obviously, of like, the fancy private schools that are really bad at sports. Right. And Berkeley Carroll, where you went, is one of those. So it always comes up like, you know, a guy who wants to work carefully for baseball, and it's still like randomly just kind of comes up. So you're sort of a bad at sports. Private school legend on top of everything else.
- [01:11]
Adam Ottavino
That's really funny and I appreciate. Thanks for having me, obviously. No, I do hear that sometimes because, I mean, even it's. It's funny because even like, my nephew who goes to, like, one of these private schools, but in the city. Yeah, you know, they're looking for examples of random anomalies by myself, very much worse.
- [01:29]
Bradley
But, yeah, people are always amazed by you. So did you grow up in Brooklyn?
- [01:34]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, initially Greenwich Village, and then we moved to Brooklyn. I was very young, probably three or four, and then Park Slope all the way through.
- [01:41]
Hugo
Got it.
- [01:41]
Bradley
But you don't live there anymore?
- [01:42]
Adam Ottavino
No, no. Now we live in the burbs. I got three kids, so we were living in the Upper east side and we got a house, and we weren't sure if we were going to move there or not. And then Covid happened and then we went.
- [01:50]
Bradley
Yeah, it makes sense. Also, Park's little requires a very specific political identity these days. I don't know your politics, and maybe you are ultra progressive, but that's sort of the vibe there right now. So, like, I know I would. I mean, I'm sort of pretty down the middle, but, like, I would find it, like, not. Not right for me.
- [02:09]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah. I mean, looking back on it, I mean, I guess you don't really. I mean, when you're in your own little bubble, you don't really know. But looking back on it. Yeah, I can. I can see what you mean. And like, as it's heading and, you know, probably more and more in one direction, but I mean, whatever. I mean, I. I'm not. I'm not, to be honest with you. But I love growing up there. I thought it was great for me, personally, I lived right by a public park, you know, with a million things to do. And I'm the only child, so I was surrounded by kids. So I got to go outside my house and, like, experience the world a little bit. So it was good for me.
- [02:38]
Bradley
That's great. That's great. So as we were chatting before we started, you, like me, are a massive lifelong and Hugo Knicks fan. How you feeling?
- [02:48]
Adam Ottavino
It's like I'm like, kind of like I'm in a weird. I'm in a weird place, I think, because I'm super happy. Obviously, I'm thrilled that they won. I was, you know, I was 15 in 1999, so this was, like, massive. It feels a little bit surreal, almost like it went a little bit easier than I would have expected with the games and everything. And I'm sad that I didn't go to either of the games. No, I have fomo. I mean, I definitely. I had an opportunity to go, and I didn't go, which bums me out because I was feeling good about my. My decision about halfway through Game four. And then obviously, that turns into one of the legendary nights in sports in New York, so wish I would have been there. And then now also the parade coming up on Thursday.
- [03:27]
Bradley
Will you go to that?
- [03:28]
Adam Ottavino
I'll be out of town, so I can't go to that. So I'm double bummed out for that. But overall, I mean, over the moon about the Knicks and what a great group of guys, so it's, like, really just awesome to watch.
- [03:37]
Bradley
How would you compare? I mean, how many different major league teams did you play for?
- [03:41]
Adam Ottavino
5.
- [03:41]
Bradley
5. So you saw five different combinations. And obviously the teams themselves change year to year. Also, in terms of the kind of character and vibe of this Knicks team, how would you compare that to your experience as a professional athlete? Different sport, but still. Yeah.
- [03:56]
Adam Ottavino
I mean, I think basketball is, like, more of the ultimate team sport, whereas, like, baseball, there's an element of it being an individual sport kind of disguised as a team sport. But then, like, that team aspect really kicks into gear when you get towards the postseason. And like, this Knicks team, in a way, you can kind of see that because they were spinning their tires for a while trying to figure out their identity this season. At times it wasn't great, but then you saw them kind of like, unlock it.
- [04:19]
Bradley
Yeah.
- [04:19]
Adam Ottavino
And once it was unlocked and you had the full buy in, like, everybody felt that and then you're watching the true, you know, the best, most purest version of basketball, which is that team game, and they kind of mastered that. And that's how they broke team systematically one by one.
- [04:34]
Bradley
Yeah.
- [04:34]
Adam Ottavino
So in terms of a comparison, I mean, you know, I think about the 2024 Mets, which was like a really fun year. Yeah. Where we kind of did come together, like, in that kind of way. So that.
- [04:46]
Bradley
But the 2024 Mets kind of made the playoffs in very dramatic fashion, and that kind of last crazy day in Atlanta and then went on this tear in the postseason. Did the Knicks. Obviously, they were hot, but was it the same, or is it more that they were a more dominant team throughout the year, and then somehow everything just clicked at the right moment?
- [05:11]
Adam Ottavino
I mean. Yeah, it's not the same. I mean, they're a better team.
- [05:14]
Bradley
And they won the title.
- [05:14]
Adam Ottavino
They won the title. Like they're a better team. Like, they were good the whole way. I mean, it's not that they weren't good this year. They were good.
- [05:20]
Bradley
Yeah. They want. They've won the NBA Cup.
- [05:22]
Adam Ottavino
Right. So they. They win the double. I guess that's the first team. First team ever.
- [05:25]
Hugo
Yeah.
- [05:25]
Bradley
Of the two or three years they've had this. Yes.
- [05:27]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah. If you're a soccer fan or whatever, you know, now we're bringing that to basketball a little bit with the multiple trophies. But no, no, they were a better team. But my. My. My point is, is there's a moment where the team sort of. It clicks, and then it's like, oh, we know who we are now. And that happened a little bit in that 24 season. Like, midway through that season, we started turning the tide and the momentum came, and you can feel that in the room. And that's a special feeling when you're a part of a group that, you know, is all pulling on the same. You know, it's. It's cliche, but you do feel it.
- [05:57]
Bradley
Right. So. So you're a New Yorker through and through. You played for both New York baseball teams. How would you describe kind of New York fandom? How you kind of, like, feel as a New York fan right now? And then the difference between baseball, where the Yankees are more popular, but the Mets still have millions and millions of fans. Whereas even though I guess there are technically two basketball teams in New York, that's barely the case. Right. The kind of New York being a baseball town versus a basketball town and kind of the Knicks is more or less the team as opposed to two baseball teams competing.
- [06:36]
Adam Ottavino
I mean, you're 100% right. I mean, you're especially like, I can, I can tell you my perspective, too. Like, I mean, when the Nets came to Brooklyn, that's pretty darn close to where I was from and where I lived.
- [06:47]
Bradley
Yeah, right.
- [06:48]
Adam Ottavino
There was a moment there where some people were kind of like, well, what do we do with this? You know, what do we know, what do we do with this new team here? And yeah, sure, there's, they're, they're, they're grooming and, you know, cultivating a whole new generation of fans for themselves, the Nets, that is.
- [07:01]
Bradley
But, but for us, are they.
- [07:03]
Adam Ottavino
I mean, maybe now it might be stopped in their tracks.
- [07:05]
Bradley
Anyone that self identifies as a Nets, not that goes to games, but that, like, calls themselves a Nets fan.
- [07:12]
Adam Ottavino
I do. Although they're in hiding right now for sure.
- [07:14]
Hugo
Right. You are talking to a Brooklyn guy, so I bet he knows a few Nets fans.
- [07:18]
Adam Ottavino
No, I do, but it's mostly like, because it starts from the. For them, there's no overcoming the Knicks. Like, so, example, like, I would have been a target person. Like, okay, you're going to come to the Nets now. You're going to come over to our side. No chance. No chance. You're waiting for the payoff, you know, like, with the Knicks, Like, I can't give in now. Like, you know, I've been watching. I've been grinding with the Knicks since the early 90s. So for me, it was never a question, but I think that that's the battle they're up against. So to your point, it's a, it's quite an uphill battle, and I don't think they're anywhere close to doing making any dent in it. It might got. Might have gotten worse now, right here.
- [07:52]
Bradley
So you and I were debating this in the episode we did right before this, which is that I made the case that the Net should actually move to Seattle. And the argument was, I, I know their attendance is pretty good, but that's because it's professional basketball in a city that loves basketball in a region of 20 million people. So, of course attendance is pretty good, but sports. And again, you know this much better than I do. They're sort of the tangible, right, Your record, your attendance, whatever. And then the intangible, you're kind of, you're the zeitgeist. You, how much people love you, think about you. All that and the Nets can never win the intangible battle in New York. Why not go to a city like Seattle that desperately wants a team would love them. They could start over. They could be the Kings of Seattle. And honestly I just don't think New York would even really notice or care all that much. And that's not even the most popular basketball team that plays at Barclays. That's the Liberty. So, you know, if you were the Nets, like, is there an argument that they could ever be the darlings of New York or would they be better off being in a city that would really want them?
- [08:50]
Adam Ottavino
That's a great question. I, I mean, I think you're right. Ultimately. I mean, I've been to Seattle. I, they. The key arena misses their team. You know, like, I get it a lot of places and they have a
- [08:59]
Bradley
new hockey arena where they.
- [09:00]
Adam Ottavino
New hockey. And like I even see it with baseball. Like, we talk about expansion and I know a little bit about the behind the scenes of like the pitches and all the different cities that are starved for pro sports. And yeah, basketball in particular, like culturally really moves the needle. So there's a lot of cities that would embrace and go crazy over a team. Whereas, yeah, it does seem like a waste. Obviously it's a huge, We're a huge market. So I mean, I'm sure there's some financial and economic implications.
- [09:25]
Bradley
Except. So. Yes, but the guy that owns the Nets is Joe Tsai, who is one of the co founders of Alibaba. Right. This is not even around the year. And his net worth, he's not from New York. He grew up in Taiwan. He's a Canadian citizen. And Vancouver's a two hour ferry ride from downtown Seattle with a giant Chinese population that you could target. You know, I don't know. I'm not sure that they would really make less. The Seattle Seahawks don't make any less money than the New York Giants, I don't think. Right.
- [09:52]
Adam Ottavino
Well, there's. Yeah, you're right because it's central. They have much more of a central revenue system in those states. Right.
- [09:56]
Bradley
Different than baseball.
- [09:57]
Adam Ottavino
Right, you're right about that.
- [09:58]
Bradley
And it's a very big market. So then, all right, for you as both former player and an announcer, what are your favorite pro cities and what are your favorite ballparks?
- [10:14]
Adam Ottavino
Baseball, ballpark wise, I'm like an old school guy, like one of the fields that I grew up watching. So that means Fenway Park, Wrigley Field, Dodger Stadium, those are like kind of my, my favorites. I always have good vibes when I'm in those places.
- [10:26]
Hugo
Is Fenway nice behind the scenes for the players? Like because it's so small, like the stadium, it looks like Those facilities. Facilities must be kind of a little more like tight.
- [10:36]
Bradley
Yeah.
- [10:36]
Adam Ottavino
So they've done an incredible job making it better, but it's not, it's not what you would expect.
- [10:40]
Bradley
Who has the best locker room?
- [10:43]
Adam Ottavino
Man, that's a good one. Atlanta maybe on the road for a road city. Atlanta's really good. Yankees really good. But no Fenway, like so as a home player, they have a very interesting setup on the home side. It's like, it's. It's completely jerry rigged, you know, like multiple level 6 layers of that green paint that's everywhere holding it together. But I like it. It's got that charm. And like when you're in there, you can hear the game happening. So, like, I would like. One of my favorite. One of the best things about being a relief pitcher, especially a late in relief pitcher, is you don't have to go right out to the bullpen. You get to kind of do your thing in the clubhouse for a while. So Tom McLaughlin's the Head clubhouse attendant for the Red Sox and that's my guy. And we would hang out in the first few innings while I'm getting ready, and we would get really good at hearing the noise and trying to guess what happened out there because we're on tape delay. So I love that feeling because Fenway, it's like there's nowhere to go.
- [11:33]
Hugo
Right.
- [11:33]
Bradley
There's no extra double off the Monster.
- [11:35]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, yeah. So the facilities are what they are, but like I always thought of it as a, as an honor, like much less than like a hindrance where some guys are like, this place sucks or whatever.
- [11:44]
Bradley
But what's your. What of the 30 MLB current stadiums, which I guess includes Sacramento at the moment. Putting the A's aside, which one is in most need of a rebuild?
- [11:57]
Adam Ottavino
Probably Arizona. I know it's got like a dome and stuff, but it's beat up. It's pretty beat up. I mean, it's been just baking in the 120 degree sun. Right. You know, for years. And it just doesn't. It just feels like. Yeah, it feels like they need a redo there.
- [12:10]
Bradley
It's interesting, the park. So I would say I've been to 21 of the 30 so far and Arizona, Houston, Miami, maybe there's more to what they're missing.
- [12:21]
Adam Ottavino
Houston's another one that have the retractable
- [12:23]
Bradley
roofs in these ultra hot climates. They're almost like a different category of facility. They're like airport like facilities. Right. In the sense that just the mechanics alone of having to build that is so massive that it just feels dramatically different.
- [12:40]
Adam Ottavino
Have you been to the new Texas yet?
- [12:41]
Bradley
I've not yet.
- [12:42]
Adam Ottavino
That was the most stark of the. Like it feels like you're an airplane hangar. Like, it's just. It's a weird vibe. Yeah, yeah, it's a huge cube type thing. And I don't know, like it's. It's, I guess, quote unquote, modern night. Nice. But like, I don't know, it doesn't feel like a ballpark.
- [12:59]
Bradley
We went to Toronto, my. And my. My son has been to about a dozen of them so far. He's 17. And we stayed in Toronto in one of the rooms facing center field. And what was amazing is, so we get into the hotel and we got there, I don't know, like say 2pm or something like that. And we're sort of. Cause as you know. But I didn't know this stuff sort of happening 24 7, right. This guy's doing stuff like. It was much busier than we expected on the field. The window opened and I was like. So as a New Yorker, my first thought was like, well, I could throw something on the field in the middle. Like I could rip the TV off the wall. So I was like, why would they allow this? And then it hit me, like, why? Because it never even occurred to anyone in Canada. Cause they're so fucking nice that anyone would do something like this. Whereas the New Yorker was like, what havoc can I wreak immediately? You know?
- [13:49]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, yeah, we do have a different mindse. Yeah, there's no doubt.
- [13:52]
Hugo
Yeah.
- [13:53]
Bradley
I will say, I mean, I'm wildly biased because I'm a, you know, longtime season ticket holder for the Mets, but I really think Citi Field is an amazing ballpark. I really do. You. I mean, you've played. So I. Both as a fan announcer and as a player. How do you see City Field?
- [14:10]
Adam Ottavino
Great. Very, very comfortable ballpark. Very family friendly, very warm. And I don't know, I just like it. Lot of space there, so a lot of. A lot of room for activities and. And just in general, I think they
- [14:23]
Hugo
do a good job.
- [14:23]
Adam Ottavino
Even the in game experience last few years, I mean, they've tried some things and I don't know, I feel like they really. They really try to appeal to everyone. The location of it, it depends on where you are in terms of getting there. And that's the. That's the rub.
- [14:35]
Bradley
But it's definitely compared to going to the Garden. I live in Soho, so the Garden's so easy, right. It's like at most half an hour Door to door, but I've gone from my apartment to my seats in 20 minutes.
- [14:47]
Hugo
How much does that matter to players? Like that kind of physical location, like Yankee Stadium is obviously kind of a weird spot, but it's really easy to get to from New Jersey. Weirdly.
- [14:55]
Bradley
Westchester.
- [14:57]
Hugo
Is it something you guys talk about a lot or like what kind of influence does it have?
- [15:01]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, there's an influence because when people come in, they're not from here, so they have to figure out where to live. And a lot of them are intimidated by the city. So they want to have some suburban place they can live and commute in. That makes sense. So for the Mets that means Long island almost every time. You could do Westchester, Connecticut if you wanted, but most people stay away.
- [15:19]
Hugo
When you were the Mets, did you
- [15:20]
Adam Ottavino
live on Long Island? No, I still lived where I live now in Westchester and it was fine. Like I just go right over the Whitestone, no big deal. But like for the Yankees, that's more. Becomes more like New Jersey. You can do like right over the like, you know, Fort Lee area or whatever and then. Or you can go north. So I remember being scandalized as a
- [15:38]
Hugo
kid finding out that all the Yankees live in New Jersey. It's like, you know, that's why I started. I had a hard time with that. Yeah, it's like Greg Nettles lives in New Jersey, what the hell?
- [15:46]
Adam Ottavino
I know, I know, I know. But, but, but it's easier to. I would say it's easier to live in the city and play for the Yankees though.
- [15:51]
Bradley
Yeah, it's really quick profile of the player psychologically for the Mets or the Yankees. Who chooses to live in the city.
- [15:59]
Adam Ottavino
I'm usually younger, maybe not a bunch of kids yet or just more adventurous or maybe not from the south, you know, I mean, generally speaking they're not intimidating.
- [16:09]
Bradley
There were some meth that lived in Long Island City, I think. Is that just sort of like a convenience factor? Like.
- [16:14]
Adam Ottavino
Yes. I mean that's where the team lived long out cities, I think initially.
- [16:18]
Hugo
Yeah, live in the dime in, in Williamsburg, the big building.
- [16:22]
Adam Ottavino
At the end of the day, I
- [16:22]
Bradley
don't know, I thought that, I don't know.
- [16:24]
Adam Ottavino
But he was more. They always did the city until the very end when he was with the Mets. Because they're more like, they like to do stuff like go to go out to eat and like, you know, enjoy the. Enjoy what New York City has to offer. That's always great. I mean, I love people who have that mindset. They come in, they're gonna Actually, like, you know, try to become a New Yorker a little bit, which I think is great, but it's not for everybody, obviously.
- [16:44]
Hugo
Were you, like, the New York guy? Like, everybody wanted to know, like, how to get around and everything?
- [16:48]
Adam Ottavino
Like, yeah, for sure. And you take it as a badge of honor, you know, where to go eat, what to do, like, what not to do. You know, hey, that's a bad idea. Probably shouldn't do that. You know, stuff like that.
- [16:57]
Bradley
So we were debating earlier. We made a couple of lists I'm gonna run by you. So the first was the top 10 New York athletes ever.
- [17:08]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah.
- [17:09]
Bradley
And Hugo and I agree to 9 of the 10.
- [17:11]
Hugo
I tried to get rid of one of the top 10.
- [17:14]
Bradley
He's going to be offended by your choice.
- [17:16]
Hugo
He might be, actually.
- [17:17]
Bradley
So this was a list in no particular order. Okay. Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio, Jeter, Mays, Robinson, Seaver. Lt Clyde Brunson.
- [17:29]
Adam Ottavino
Okay.
- [17:30]
Hugo
Okay.
- [17:30]
Bradley
So Hugo's argument. You want to make your case for John McEnroe instead of Seaver?
- [17:34]
Hugo
Well, John McEnroe won four US Opens, and he's from New York City. And so Bradley made me remove one guy, and I said Seaver of that on that list.
- [17:44]
Adam Ottavino
Wow. Well, Seaver was the franchise, though, so he's like. He's the franchise.
- [17:48]
Hugo
But. But except for 69, I mean, the
- [17:50]
Bradley
team was generally one three Cy Youngs as a match.
- [17:53]
Hugo
Yeah, No, I know. But I mean, deGrom won three two. Right. Like, just two, but the world Series. Yeah.
- [17:58]
Adam Ottavino
That's tough. That's tough. I agree. I. I'm.
- [18:01]
Bradley
What about.
- [18:01]
Adam Ottavino
I mean, for me, I don't. Maybe I don't understand it. Like, Lawrence Taylor to that level. I know he was, like, one of
- [18:06]
Bradley
the best, but he's the greatest maybe defensive player ever.
- [18:09]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah.
- [18:09]
Bradley
And they won two titles with him. Again, I am less of a football. I'm a big football fan, but not nearly compared to baseball and basketball, so it's a low.
- [18:16]
Hugo
He did define those teams also.
- [18:18]
Bradley
Yeah. Okay, so then here's the next character
- [18:21]
Adam Ottavino
I guess I would have to feel, because to me, this. This argument's not so much about stats, it's about greatness. It's about greatness and who the city wants to take ownership over their contribution to. Right.
- [18:32]
Bradley
Yes.
- [18:32]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah.
- [18:32]
Bradley
Well, it's interesting. So there's Zachary o'.
- [18:34]
Hugo
Connor. It didn't get better than that at the US Open. Right.
- [18:37]
Bradley
The US Open is amazing, by the way.
- [18:38]
Adam Ottavino
I'm in no way is a great event diminishing.
- [18:41]
Bradley
So let me finish the list. And then I want to talk about greatness versus better because they're two different categories. Right. So for the second category, three categories was special mention for postseason greatness. So Eli, Joe Namath, Reggie and Mark Messier. And then the next one was sort of just missed the cut. And that was Willis reed, Patrick Ewing, McEnroe. For me, you would have Seaver, I guess, on that Judge Rivera, Strahan, Tyson Gehrig, Greta Waite. And then we added what? Pac Van and someone else.
- [19:12]
Hugo
Well, you wanted to put it, Dr. J. They won four stripes.
- [19:15]
Adam Ottavino
Oh, yeah, the Islanders. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:19]
Bradley
Anyone that strikes you that is not on somewhere in that list?
- [19:22]
Adam Ottavino
Well, for a little while there, Rivera wasn't mentioned. And then he got mentioned because.
- [19:27]
Bradley
Yeah, you just. Who would you take out of the top 10? That was the problem.
- [19:30]
Adam Ottavino
Right. I think you can. Yeah, I think your list is pretty good. Honestly, it's tough because like five of them have to be taken up by Yankees because they had that whole era where they controlled everything.
- [19:40]
Bradley
Yes, right, right. It's a mess. Fan. It pains me.
- [19:43]
Hugo
Like I almost take one of Ruth, Mantle and DiMaggio take one.
- [19:48]
Bradley
Just one.
- [19:49]
Hugo
I realize it's crazy, but like, I
- [19:51]
Bradley
would have taken them or maybe you have to.
- [19:53]
Adam Ottavino
If I had to take someone off,
- [19:54]
Bradley
I would take DiMaggio off. But of course, I can see none of us are playing.
- [19:57]
Hugo
Also, he was married to Marilyn Monroe. You got to get for that.
- [20:00]
Bradley
Yeah, that's true.
- [20:01]
Adam Ottavino
He was like a. Such a big star. He had that mysterious star quality when he was in New York, I feel like. Right.
- [20:08]
Bradley
Someone did make the case to me that Maze didn't belong because he. A lot of his crews in San Francisco. Francisco. But when you win the World Series, the basket, cash, all that, how do you not.
- [20:17]
Hugo
Yeah.
- [20:17]
Bradley
And you're this. I don't know, somewhere in the top five greatest baseball players ever feel sacrifice
- [20:21]
Hugo
wherever you want to put off the list.
- [20:23]
Adam Ottavino
Do you have David Wright anywhere?
- [20:25]
Bradley
I mean, I mean, I get it. I love the Mets, but no, in fact, I would say the second greatest met that I saw was actually deGrom at his prime. So our seats are section 18, row three. So kind of like a little to the left, seats one through four, obviously, if you wanna visit. But one time I had given them away and my daughter wanted to go, so we sat in like those folding chairs right behind the on deck circle. And sometimes, I mean, I don't know if you. Well, you. You guys. Did you ever actually bat?
- [20:58]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, but like long time ago.
- [21:00]
Bradley
Right. So some of the guys on deck circle would chat with you, the fans, while you. While they were waiting. The Latin guys kind of all acted like they didn't speak English, which I knew wasn't true of all of them. They were the Braves, but deGrom was for the Mets. And some of the players literally were like, kind of jokingly complaining to us, like, this is pointless to even go up a bat against the ground or like, like, you know, he was. It was in that phase where, like, it literally was pointless to even try to hit against him. And then my son said, well, why isn't Soto there? And I said, just not enough time yet. It's a New Yorker, you know, he'll get there. And hopefully he does win a championship one day in New York. And he probably is the greatest hitter already in Mets history. In the sense of talent. Yeah, I think so.
- [21:48]
Adam Ottavino
He'll have all the records. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [21:51]
Bradley
I mean, he's a better hitter than. Right. He's a better hitter than Gary. He's a better hitter than Keith. He's a better hitter than Daryl Beltran. Piazza, Rusty, stop the grandeur. It's actually a Montreal athlete. First.
- [22:05]
Adam Ottavino
I think the Mets hitting list is not that long.
- [22:08]
Bradley
It's not that long. And I guess I'm forgetting, like, what Clean Jones was the big hitter in 69.
- [22:13]
Adam Ottavino
I mean, they had. They had some guys with big ears. There was like a Howard Johnson year in there some years. But Juan Stto is.
- [22:18]
Bradley
Yeah, well, I mean, Alonzo had 53 home runs as a rookie. That was amazing.
- [22:22]
Adam Ottavino
Amazing.
- [22:23]
Bradley
And by the way, Alonzo might end up in the hall of Fame. 1. Did you see the quote that he said to.
- [22:27]
Adam Ottavino
To Stearns Sterns?
- [22:29]
Bradley
This one?
- [22:29]
Hugo
Yeah.
- [22:30]
Bradley
Should we say the. So it was that Alonzo apparently said to Stearns when Stearns was manager, the general manager of the Mets who did not re. Sign Alonzo. You know, I'll be polishing my plaque for Cooperstown while you're still fiddling with your fucking formulas. Which I thought was pretty cool.
- [22:44]
Adam Ottavino
Wait, let's, let's.
- [22:45]
Hugo
Let's back up and talk about your growing up a little bit in New York City, because I still don't get it. Like, I mean, we, you know, as we mentioned the beginning, our kids went to a school similar to the school you went to. The idea of a professional athlete coming from there is, like, kind of like almost comical. What age was it when you felt like that was like. I mean, it's never realistic, right. As a goal, as a kid growing up. But when you thought Like, I have. I have my sight set on something,
- [23:11]
Adam Ottavino
so I always kind of had him. Had him set in a delusional way. Like, I. I honestly, like, I went to a game when I was a kid, and I just was like, I have to be out there. You know, it's like one of those things. But when I thought I could, like, maybe click back in for real, probably like, 15, 16 years old, because there was a period of time there where my body hadn't caught up yet with the other guys. I had all the skills still, but I wasn't. Like, I didn't have the. The, you know, the force multiplier of being a big guy yet again. And then once that clicked back in and I saw that, all of a sudden, like, I just rocketed ahead of, like, the other guys.
- [23:48]
Hugo
Were either of your parents athletes?
- [23:50]
Adam Ottavino
No. I mean, my dad played sports growing up and stuff, but. And he was super, you know, instrumental in my development in every possible way. I don't know. It's just like, at that point, you know, you could see the goal. You could see the. Like, I could see the uprights. Like, I could. I knew that major leaguers threw X amount of miles an hour and could do xyz, and I felt myself being able to get there. So then at that point, I was like, all right, I think we can maybe do this if we play our cards right and, you know, and you're
- [24:17]
Hugo
able to play on your school team, or did you have to, like, immediately go play for other kinds of teams? Because.
- [24:21]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, so competition wasn't good enough. This is, like, the early era of travel ball, so it's nothing like it is now. You know, there's no private equity involved, but, like, yeah, no, I played all sports growing up, and I did live one block from a park with eight baseball fields, so that was kind of the secret sauce there is. You know, my dad's an actor, so he was home a lot. So, like, literally, we practiced in the park every day. And, like, I got a lot more reps than other guys in terms of just playing with older kids and stuff like that. So that was the perfect storm of, like, sneaky location helped me and being an only child or whatever, but I started, like, I was the one driving the train. Like, I was like, put me on a travel team. I want to play more baseball, whatever. So, seven, eight years old, I did join a team. We always kind of played with the older level. My dad became one of the coaches, and now it became, like, a thing. And so, I mean, we did Play a lot of games, but it was me pushing it. Like, I played like you.
- [25:14]
Bradley
I mean, I would imagine just again, stereotyping a little bit. But, you know, you went to school at Berkeley Carroll. Like, it wasn't like you couldn't have had a really successful life if you weren't a professional athlete, right? Probably different than a lot of guys that you. You've played with. So was it sounds like you kind of reached that conclusion before your parents did. What was the moment where they were like, oh God, he actually might be good enough to do this?
- [25:36]
Adam Ottavino
I think that they always were a little skeptical of it, of course, but, like, again, my dad's an actor. Like, so he. He went to long shots, he went and chased his. What he wanted to do. So he was totally on board with letting me do that. And along the way, like, I'm learning tons of life lessons and a million other things, and so it's helping me no matter what. And he understood. They both understood that. But I think, yeah, I think, like, there's always. I think with a parent there's always like, well, I think my kid's pretty good, but who knows, you know? And I. I guess probably when I got actually drafted as a 17 year old out of high school, granted it wasn't high or anything, but I was like picked by a major league team. Like, then all of a sudden it changes a little bit in their mind.
- [26:13]
Bradley
Think about going right into the minors because you instead you went to college. What was that thought process?
- [26:17]
Adam Ottavino
Like, it was a different time period. So, like, they didn't really offer me anything right away. The goal was to, like, watch me throughout the summer develop and like either sign me or convince me to go to a junior college or retain my rights or whatever. Instead, I was young and we decided this is where. This is where, like the. We're not going all in on it. You know, my parents are still like, you need to get an education and like, you know, diversify yourself here a little bit. That's when they were like, go to school. You have three years till you're eligible again, and we'll go from there.
- [26:46]
Bradley
So you play all four years of college?
- [26:48]
Adam Ottavino
Just three.
- [26:48]
Bradley
Did you ever go back or.
- [26:49]
Adam Ottavino
No, no.
- [26:50]
Bradley
Do you ever feel like a desire to finish up or not?
- [26:53]
Adam Ottavino
No, not really. I mean, as funny as that sounds, like I just wasn'. I didn't.
- [26:58]
Bradley
I.
- [26:58]
Adam Ottavino
One thing, one of my. One of my regrets, and I don't know if it's like a lesson or not, if in there is like, when I was in college at Northeastern, I, I really was still focused on baseball. Like, I mean, I took classes and I learned things, but it was just whatever I could do to like, you know, something easy that I didn't have to dive too hard into. I do regret, like not taking advantage of that, of that opportunity to like actually learn something and chase something else that I was passionate about. But I just was so singularly focused through that time period of improving myself, baseball wise, that school was just a distraction for me.
- [27:28]
Bradley
So after school, but before you started playing in the major leagues, as a fan, you kind of read about and hear about the minor league experience in two different ways. One would be that it's the positive, which is oftentimes from guys who then became like you, successful major league players. Right where it's remembered sort of fondly. And even the miserable stuff was kind of like part of the journey. But then I read a book, I don't remember a while, it was maybe 10, 15 years ago by a guy who only played the minor league. It was a really well done book, I forget the name. But by minor league pitcher, and he was talking about like, it's a really rough life and if you don't then achieve your dream of making the majors. I think he was saying for a lot of guys it may not have been the best choice to even do that. How would you think about your minor league experience?
- [28:12]
Adam Ottavino
Well, I think what he's saying is true. It can be horribly unfulfilling if you don't get out of it what you want to get out of it. I mean, my minor league experience was really hard, but also obviously you look back on it fondly because it worked out just like you said. I made some of the best friends of my life playing in the minors. I learned so much going through, you know, the, the struggle and the weird circumstances. But I was really fortunate because they gave me a signing bonus so they didn't cut me when I stunk in double A.
- [28:40]
Hugo
Because you were number one pick after college.
- [28:42]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, I became a first round draft pick. So like all of a sudden now they're invested in me a little bit. So I was like the worst pitcher in the league in double A for the first half when I got there. And yeah, there was moments that season and even the next season where you're like, I'm going to be a flop, I'm not going to even make it at all. And you start having those, those worries. Like I, I've dedicated everything to this. I put in everything to this and like I'm really going to not get across the line here. So it's in the moment, you're not having as much fun because you're just so like consumed with this idea that you're going to mess it up.
- [29:14]
Bradley
So, so let's say that you are a 18 year old kid comes to you and they're a 14th round pick. So it's kind of not 30th round like you were, where it's clear they want you to keep developing in college, but not first round either. And they say to you like, and let's say they're hyper realistic for an 18 year old which is now already getting out of the realm of reality. But let's just say they were. And they said like, I know that there's at least a decent shot that I probably won't make the major leagues. I love baseball, but you know, I could go to college and do other things with my life. What's your recommendation?
- [29:45]
Adam Ottavino
It just depends. Every, every, every single situation is unique. Not only as a baseball player, like where I'm look, I'd be looking at like how physically developed and are you now versus like is there any more room there? What does each person really need? You know, from a maturity standpoint nowadays in college athletics, like if you're going to go play college athletics, like they've gotten so much better at developing you there. There's so much more money involved and resources involved. So in the old days they would say like, well if you sign in pro ball, you're with the best coaches, but that's not really the case. Like the best coaches a lot of times are in college now and it gives you a second to take a deep breath and work on yourself and get, become more process oriented and that might help you later. And then along the line you might become inspired to do something else as well. So it's all individual. But I would say like the old, like it's, it's a risk, it's definitely a risk to sign a professional baseball contract when you're super young. Yes, there's a huge payout on the end if you hit because you're like one of the younger free agents and now you're going to really break the bank. But it's a major risk. You could be 20 and out of the game.
- [30:48]
Hugo
You talked about like the major leaguers coming to New York maybe being a little intimidated by it. What about you being a New York guy playing in all these little towns and stuff in the minor leagues, was that a weird experience? Were you so consumed in baseball, you didn't really notice what was the. I assume you played in a lot of weird, small places.
- [31:06]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, I mean, there's an element. I mean, yeah, there's an element of a culture shock, of course, because, yeah, you're in places that. I mean, I'm from New York City, and. And for a while, you think everything's like that until you start traveling and you realize that not. There's really not many places like it. So, yeah, you're learning. But I also thought that just because you're from the melting pot, you're so much more exposed to the concept that places are different and people, you know, have different culture and all that. So I was, like, much more, like, kind of anticipating it. So there was no shock there. It was more just, like, trying to learn about all the different places I was at. And, of course, you do flock to people that are more, you know, kind of like, you. Like, the moment I get into pro ball, like, I look to my right and I see a kid that's from Miami, and I'm like, all right, like, we can hang out, like, right away. Like, you know, we'll figure this out together, so that sort of thing.
- [31:57]
Bradley
So there's a phrase in, like, behavioral economics called arrival fallacy. I don't know if you know it, but it's like, basically, you think that when this thing happens, then I will be happy forevermore. And then it turns out to rarely be the case. So, like, the prime example is people who win the lottery later on say, well, I'm not as happy as I thought I would be. You get called up to the major leagues, and obviously, I assume that moment was incredible. Is there a rival fallacy, though? Eventually. And if so, when does that kick in there?
- [32:28]
Adam Ottavino
It's the whole time.
- [32:29]
Hugo
Are you. You.
- [32:30]
Adam Ottavino
Oh, you. It's. It's tough. I mean, I just heard Dustin Pedroia talking about this on a show earlier, about how he just didn't enjoy it enough when he was, like, in it, because you're so consumed by the. The, like, what you need to do right now to stay in it. But, yeah, I mean, it's totally. Like, it was a huge monkey off my back to get the actual call to the big leagues. Like, it just feels like you checked that box. Like, it wasn't all for nothing or whatever, you know? But, like, the reality is, like, yeah, like, it's. J.J. watts said this, and it's true. It's like success is. Is not owned. It's, like, leased, and you gotta pay Rent every day. And it's hard.
- [33:07]
Bradley
I mean, I would imagine. I remember when I ran my Bloomberg Merrill campaign, you know, it was an amazing life experience, but I was working. I was so stressed out, and I was working, like, at least 80 hours a week. And then even when we won, I was, like, almost deflated, you know, in a way that it's like, really hard in the moment with baseball because you do have what seems like a lot of downtime on the road, hotel rooms, all that kind of. Does that give you the chance to sort of take a step back and put it in perspective, or are you just too in it to do that?
- [33:41]
Adam Ottavino
I think you get better at it as you get older. Like, you really remind yourself, like, my routine really changed over time. Like, I would make sure I got out of bed in any city and go find a coffee shop, go, go to the beach, go, you know, check out a museum, go do something like get out and then, like, go to dinner with the guys. Like, try to remember, like, we're here for more than just this one thing. But when you're younger, it's just, like, really hard. It's really hard. You're so worried about it all getting taken away, and you, you know, you just feel like if you're not putting every last minute of your attention towards it, then it's going to slip from your grasp. And, yeah, you can be pretty miserable through that process. I just think you. It's just. You get better at over time in some aspects, and then in some aspects, you worry even more over time, too.
- [34:24]
Bradley
So it's what happens on the end of it. Right. So you have this podcast, not Baseball Coffee and Announce and do things like that. Are guys sort of towards the. I mean, even if they're sort of financially somewhat secure or totally secure, is there this feeling of, like, Since I've been 8, baseball is the only. Whatever, only thing I've ever known or thought about. Now it's 30 years later. I didn't really focus either. I didn't go to school or if I did, I wasn't really focused on it. What's that moment? Like, what was like for you and what's it like for most guys?
- [34:55]
Adam Ottavino
It's terrifying. I think everybody will tell you that it really helps if you have something to go do after. I really worry about the guys that have, like, sometimes it's like, just. Just because you have all the money, it doesn't mean you're going to be happy. Like.
- [35:08]
Bradley
Right.
- [35:09]
Adam Ottavino
You know, Max Scherzer, for example, he's still going. He was my teammate with the Mets. Like I worry about him a little bit when he's done. He's like, seems a little crazy. He, it's just he. But he loves. Like we talk about like trying to find enjoyment of it. You start to become a little like sick in the head over time. Like you really enjoy the difficulty of it and the challenges. Like you find it like a, like that becomes your enjoyment. So like now if you lose that, what are you going to do? You know? Like, so for me, like doing the show that I do and stuff like that, it keeps me like, gives me something to wake up every day and be, stay routine and you know, just kind of like, like keeps me away from my, from my thoughts and all that sort of stuff. But it's terrifying. Like it's, it's, it's a, there's a safety in like having your schedule planned for you, knowing where you're gonna be for the eight, nine months out of the year. Yeah. Being able to like having always a built in excuse like for anything too. Like, oh, well, sorry, I have to train. Like, you know, and everybody seems to understand or like you feel like you're losing your identity and all that stuff. But so we worked really hard, like my wife and I, to like get ahead of that and like try to develop other skills and like understand that this isn't going to last. And like we got to be prepared for that. Even with all that being said, driving home knowing that my last game just happened was like really hard.
- [36:23]
Hugo
And that was last year, 2025.
- [36:25]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, really hard.
- [36:28]
Bradley
How did you know it was over?
- [36:30]
Adam Ottavino
Because I was making the choice. So I knew it was kind of over like there it got to the point where I was only going to play in the major leagues. I knew I thought I was good enough to play in the major leagues, but I also understood analytically why they weren't rushing to let me play in the major leagues like on a permanent basis anymore. So it becomes one of those things where it's like either they're going to put me on the major league roster or they're. Or I'm not playing at all because I'm not going to the minors. So there's a time on that. So it's like I was staying in shape, but at a certain point you're like, okay, I'm gonna stop staying in shape here because I don't want to just be sitting in Florida in the heat, throwing for no reason for no one. And like I'm 40. Like we're good. We did it.
- [37:11]
Bradley
Right?
- [37:11]
Adam Ottavino
So, like, I mean, like, I. I felt like it was the end there, but at the same time, you're like, maybe somebody will grab me. I'm throwing. Okay.
- [37:19]
Bradley
Right.
- [37:19]
Adam Ottavino
But, like, in my mind, I'm like, it. Any day now is the last day. You just know it.
- [37:23]
Bradley
So for you, what's. If you can chart this out, what would the path be over the next 20, 30 years if you stay involved in baseball? And then what would it. Let's say that you chose something totally different. What would you want to do?
- [37:37]
Adam Ottavino
So in terms of, like, totally different things, it's hard to say, because, I mean, I love lots of things in life. Like, I love to be creative. I mean, I love lots of things, but, you know, you need an opportunity, and you need something to grab you at that inspiration. So right now, it's still baseball. Like, I still watch a ton of baseball, and I love going to the games without any pressure to perform. And I. I would like to carve out another 20 years, 30 years in baseball and kind of touch a. Touch it all. Like, I'd love. Like, I love what I'm doing right now because, again, I go to the field, and there's no pressure, and I just get to enjoy the game and teach the game and be on that side of it and try to have, you know, do it to the best of my ability. But there's also that itch to compete again. So, like, managing or, like, running a team, like, those things are. You know, those things are definitely on my bucket list, things I want to do. Like, I think about the parade that's coming on Thursday. I still have, like, an image in my mind of being on one of those floats going on Broadway. Like, it feels real enough in my head that I feel like it's in my future. So, like, that's, like, I can't see it clearly, but I know that that's sort of.
- [38:43]
Bradley
How much would you. Let's say you decided, I'm going to pursue being a manager, and I've heard you talk about that before. And team said to Adam, we think you have potential. We want you to start off managing double A. Yeah.
- [38:54]
Adam Ottavino
I mean, they already do stuff, say stuff like that.
- [38:56]
Bradley
Would you do that?
- [38:57]
Adam Ottavino
No. No, right? No.
- [38:58]
Hugo
You wouldn't do double A.
- [38:59]
Adam Ottavino
No. Because it's just beneath me. I mean, I mean, not.
- [39:03]
Bradley
Not.
- [39:03]
Adam Ottavino
No offense. I mean, it's just, like, I'm a major league person, like, at this point, and I don't know anything about. I'm not trying to do player to
- [39:09]
Bradley
feel like you could be a pitching coach right now.
- [39:11]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure. But it's again like, I mean it's not the, it's not what excites me. You know, I talk a lot about the, that, that, that true. Being truly inspired, like really to me, like when, when I'm where I want to be, you're going to get the best out of me. And like, you know, I got offered some on field jobs this year and it's flattering, it's great. Like, I mean, I mean I know that they know I can do those jobs but, but with all due respect, like to anybody, like I really feel like I do the best job when I'm in the job I want, which is like, you know, actually having some power and some concerns.
- [39:42]
Bradley
So if you were the GM or sort of one of the people running
- [39:45]
Adam Ottavino
a team
- [39:47]
Bradley
between sort of the analytical perspective of maybe someone who'd never played and kind of a much more kind of traditional based on instincts perspective, like how do you think you would be and what do you think the ideal mix is?
- [40:01]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, it's a balance. It's, it's no doubt a balance. The information's there to help you see what you can't see. But at the same time I think that sometimes teams overvalue the big picture with, you know, like a lot, a lot of teams put in a system that they feel like well over the long over the aggregate, you know, this will work. But to me the major league game is played pitch to pitch, inning to inning, day to day, you know, and I think there's edges to be gained all over the place if you're willing to just take them off the table. So it's a combination of both. Like you gotta, I think you have two jobs as a manager or as a general manager, you got a couple different jobs. But you know, of course you want to win and you want to prioritize the future as well as the present, but it's also about the players and it's about their careers and putting them in the best position to succeed and really caring about them and creating that, that, that culture. That's the only way it's sustainable. But to answer your ultimate question, like I like to use as much information as I can, but I'm also not going to get fooled by some 10,000 foot view all the time. Things are constantly changing. This is human dynamics like you have to be aware of that.
- [41:09]
Bradley
Does the money ball with money concept actually work? It sounds so appealing. I guess the first time it sort of came up was when the Red Sox were trying to get Billy Bean. But you know, you see it with Davis Stearns right now. He's a very analytical guy, but obviously has Steve Cohen's, you know, checkbook. Is that a real thing or is that just one of those, like, things that sounds amazing, but maybe actually kind of is. Is too much. Two different things too much or something like that?
- [41:34]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, I think, I think they're two different things. I think, I think you. All those concepts really help you on the margins a lot. But in terms of like going out and getting needle moving baseball players, like, there's a, there's a human element to negotiations and that aspect. And I, I do find it very interesting when a small market general manager who's never had access to any of that side of the market, then all of a sudden has to play it has to swim in that pool. I think it's difficult and I think that it, it can you learn a lot of lessons. Like, I think a lot of people come in with this idealism, a lot of the modern GMs with this idealist, this like, ideology of like, I'm going to win every, every transaction and I'm going to be ultra efficient. And like, yeah, that's how we're going to win.
- [42:19]
Bradley
You see that politics also, we give politicians that are obsessed always with winning the news cycle of that day, and they might win the battle, but they tend to lose the war because they miss the big picture of like, the job is to like, understand the voters enough to care what they, to understand what they want and try to achieve a big picture and to do things that actually matter and not just win every tweet and everything else. And people make that mistake. People have been, you know, in it forever. So if there were a salary cap, how much does that all change? And what's your take as to what's going to happen with a lockout?
- [42:49]
Adam Ottavino
Oh, it's going to be sketchy because I feel like both sides are pretty dug in here. For me, it just sucks a little bit because I look at the, I look at the big picture and I do think to myself, and, and this is coming from somebody who was a union rep. I just look at the big picture and I say, man, everything would be so much better if the two sides could work together and, you know, grow the pie even larger. And, and, and really, because baseball's in a great moment right now. And that's to me, that's why I do believe that we will have Baseball next year. Ultimately, I think the dynamics on both sides indicate to me that the, you know, cooler heads will prevail, but it's tough because the owners won't show the books. So the players have no faith in those numbers. And that's what makes the partnership basically impossible.
- [43:40]
Bradley
But if you add sort of an NBA like 50, 50 split does in it again, unless you think they're gonna lie to you and steal from you the whole time, in theory, it just. Either everyone's in it together or they're not, right?
- [43:55]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, but it's about defining what that revenue looks like. And that's like part of the issue. It's like a lot of times, you know, we're getting the whole clear picture. And so I don't blame that from the player side. But to your point, yes, I, I believe as a, as a player that it would be better for everyone to lock in that 50% revenue to me. And then you go in, the players, go ahead and divide it up how you want, Right?
- [44:16]
Bradley
Right.
- [44:16]
Adam Ottavino
Stars, scrubs, middle, middle ground, whatever. But right now, the current system, if you. This is the thing to me that's not talked about enough, is the makeup of each body, right? It's like the big markets versus the small markets on one side, but then it's the star players versus everyone else on the other side. The system that we're in now is really benefiting the Juan Sotos of the world much more than like the 90% of the fraternity there. And at some point that majority is going to flex their muscle and the
- [44:45]
Bradley
whole system is going to change, I think so. It's interesting though, because you see this with unions all the time where, like, think about the teachers union, right? The vast majority of people go teaching, really want to educate kids and see them do well. But the people who are the loudest voices inside the union tend to have tons of power. And therefore you have things like, you know, fighting against any sort of like, firing of bad teachers. You have the rubber room where you can't even fire a teacher. They just get paid to not work. Scherzer, honestly, even though obviously he's a Hall of Fame pitcher, seemed a little bit like that, where he was so hardcore. And then he got voted when his proposal that he rejected ultimately was accepted. There was an article in the Athletic a few weeks ago, I don't know if you saw it, that I thought really informed my perspective on the thing, which is that franchise values for MLB are lower respectively, than they are in other sports because the market views the unpredictability on the expense side as too variable to put a higher valuation on it.
- [45:44]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, they want cost certainty.
- [45:45]
Bradley
Right. And when I read that, I was like, okay, then the owners are going to lock in and make sure this happens no matter what. Which seems to me the only way you avoid a strike or lockout, whatever you call it, is if the players do eventually accept that. Because it seems like for the owners we're talking about billions and billions of dollars potential per owner and it's worth it to them, big picture, to take the hit for a year. Do you agree with that? And if you do, then what's the process to avoid a strike?
- [46:15]
Adam Ottavino
I think you're right, but I think timing matters. And so there's a couple things. Not only the momentum of baseball and then, you know, you still have to, you have to compete in the market now for, for attention, like with everything. I mean, it felt like baseball was starting to edge, edge basketball. But I don't know, maybe it's just because we're in New York. It feels like that's flipping back again. But anyway, I mean, like, what does it look like? I think timing matters a lot. The media deals are all up in about two and a half years. To me, that's a huge thing. You're going to go sell a sport, you don't want to tear it to the studs. So I think those things could keep, keep this actually from remaining a little more status quo for the time being. But what it looks like in the future is, yeah, them just tearing it down and crushing the players souls into acceptance. And honestly, it might not even be that hard because like I mentioned, yeah, there's like 90% of the fraternity that is, in humble opinion, I don't think is willing to miss that much time.
- [47:08]
Bradley
And you're putting the sport at real. I mean, think about 94. You know, it took a while for baseball. They kind of got lucky. Slash steroids kind of led to the home run chase. That kind of brought people's excitement back up.
- [47:19]
Adam Ottavino
But there's way more competition now in the market. There's a lot of risk on your phone. I mean.
- [47:24]
Bradley
Yeah, right. So I mean, it's, I just, it's a big, like, it's a big risk. I see this with my son. You know, he is really into baseball now, but it took a while because when you live in the world of TikTok and highlights and all of that, yeah, NFL and the NBA sort of lend itself better. And so I could see a world where like people like him kind of really regress as a fan if there's no baseball for you.
- [47:47]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah. Or esports or podcasts about the show you're watching or, you know, like, there's just competition for your, for your attention. So it's tougher and I think. But I, but I do think that big interesting component is like, the union gave a seat at the table to the minor leaguers with the minor league union.
- [48:06]
Bradley
Like, they have a vote interesting with.
- [48:07]
Adam Ottavino
For this, for the ratification of the CBA as well. And so I just wonder, like, what's in their interest mostly to keep baseball going. Like, those players, think about it, they don't want to miss a year. They're pretty much gone. There'll be a new crop of players. So to me, that's a, that's a strategical edge that the ownership side has now that they didn't have before, is that there's a larger portion of the voting body that doesn't want to, that can't afford to miss a year. It's easy for Manny Machado to stand up and say, hey, I make 36 million a year and I'm sitting out because I have another 36 coming. And I already made 36 year before. But like, and I'm blocked in and I'm playing and I'm at my career set. It's way harder for the guy who's, you know, just been drafted and he's maybe going to get to double A the next year, but if he misses that whole portion of time, there's a whole new crop. It's just tougher. And that's why I think I'd be surprised if whatever gets eventually boiled down to the first mediocre, you know, proposal at the end of, like, while they're in the lockout, if it isn't accepted, I'd be surprised.
- [49:04]
Bradley
And what's the, what's your take on the union's leadership these days?
- [49:08]
Adam Ottavino
It serves. It's, it's, it's the same thing. And they're dug in. I mean, Bruce Meyer's good at what he does. He's dug in on the, you know, free market system because. And I think a lot of it is pride. I mean, I think a lot of it comes down to where the only union that's never had this. And it's like a major point of pride and like, you know, gotta pay homage to the guys that came before us, that set up, set us up for all the success. And all those things are true, Right?
- [49:33]
Bradley
Marvin Miller spinning his grave. Yeah, yeah.
- [49:36]
Adam Ottavino
But, like, but Like, I. I think we live in a different moment right now, and I think that's a fair conversation to at least explore. And that's. So when in the wake of the Tony Clark situation and then he's out. I thought it was a little interesting that, that the players, like, it's their union now I'm not in it anymore. But I felt like it was very quick for them to just immediately stick with the status quo, where I thought maybe this was a moment where they do some more in a reflection on what they want, but that's.
- [50:02]
Bradley
They have it so, so ironic that it's the. Maybe the only union demanding the free market. Right. Every other union across the world doesn't want a free market. Right?
- [50:11]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah.
- [50:12]
Bradley
So totally.
- [50:13]
Hugo
Adam, tell us about your podcast a little bit just before we go. What. Why did you start it and what's your. What's your sort of goal with it?
- [50:19]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah, so I came up with the concept based off of watching kids watch other people play video games online. And like, oh, there's a screen share aspect. So that's what I do on my show. I have like an iPad where I screen share. I'm lucky to have access to all the major league games and all the data and I can run through things really quickly. And then the idea is, you know, I have a chat on my YouTube going and people tell me what to look at. And there's a community being built there with other people that want to consume baseball in this way. More of a complete way than just watching a highlight or reading an article, because it's really hard to watch all of baseball. You can be locked in on your team, like the Mets or the Yankees or whoever your team is. But, like, you don't really get to. Then you're not really getting to see Jacob Mizaroski pitch for the brewers in a full outing as much with somebody telling you what, why this is good.
- [51:06]
Bradley
Right.
- [51:06]
Adam Ottavino
So that's kind of like what I. What I wanted to do with it. And it keeps me sharp for my broadcasting jobs, which, which is a nice bonus. Like, I feel like I'm doing. Studying the whole time, so I'm always informed. But again, there's a routine aspect to it. I love the game and this is the way I would consume it. This is something I would be interested in, you know, if I wasn't doing it myself.
- [51:25]
Hugo
And how does the broadcasting life work? Like, how does that. What's your setup there?
- [51:29]
Adam Ottavino
So, like, I'm in the first year of doing this, so I'm kind of spread out all over the place. I do. I do pre and post game for the Yankees on YES network. I do two series a month and then I fly around for NBC and ESPN doing games, which is great. I love being at the ballpark and I have a bunch of those coming up. And yeah, just go to as many events as I can, talk to as many people as I can, and just watch baseball and enjoy it.
- [51:51]
Hugo
When you see guys who are your teammates and you're like on the sort of other side of the divide, do they give you a hard time? Do they all kind of want to do that same thing? What's the relationship like as it changes?
- [52:00]
Adam Ottavino
I think most of them probably knew where I was headed right away. I mean, you know, I mean, I can't hide who I am. So I think they kind of knew I was going to be talking baseball. And I mean, I just saw Pete Alonso in Baltimore, got a big hug from him. I think they're all. They all kind of know. And I think. I think the feedback I get is they like me doing it because I'm a little bit more of a truth teller. And I. I've been just so in it right now that I understand the difficulty of the sport. So I'm not out there killing guys because the game's hard. I'm explaining why it's hard. You know, so they like it. And overall, it's been well received.
- [52:31]
Bradley
Two final quick questions. One, is it fair to say that hitting a baseball is the single hardest thing in all of sports?
- [52:39]
Adam Ottavino
I think so. Maybe playing quarterback in the NFL because there's so many things going on, but yeah, hitting is really hard. I mean, do you understand, like, how did.
- [52:48]
Bradley
Like, you're only 60ft away, you're throwing the ball with incredible spin at an incredibly high speed. Like, do you sometimes wonder, like, how do they hit this?
- [52:58]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah. When I used to get my at bats in the major leagues, I mean, I remember seeing a pitcher who I thought was like, not as good as me, and I'm facing it, you know, and guys throwing like 92 or 93 with like pretty good sync or something. And I remember thinking, like, how does anybody hit me? Because I can't hit this guy at all. You almost be. I'm like, almost offended by it. Like, this is insane.
- [53:18]
Hugo
When was the last time you were a good hitter? At what level?
- [53:20]
Adam Ottavino
High school. High school.
- [53:21]
Hugo
You were a good hitter. Knife?
- [53:22]
Adam Ottavino
Yeah.
- [53:22]
Hugo
Could you have been a hitter, like, develop that way?
- [53:26]
Adam Ottavino
Totally an unknown there. I was, my hitting leg behind my pitching. But I'D like to think that I would have had some good tools. Like, I would have had some power. And I felt like I, you know, have the brain for it in a way, but it's a lot of. It's so reactionary that it's hard to know at the highest level. And I never got the chance. There was no Ohtanis before, so they weren't rushing to let anybody do that. They were like, no, no, you're good at pitching. Do that.
- [53:47]
Bradley
I'm like, okay, the mechanics of pitching. And I know we stop, but it seems to me, again, just as a fan, that the physics and intellect of pitching has exceeded the biology of it. Right. So you got a guy like deGrom who knows how to throw the ball one or two every pitch, but his body clearly can't handle because he gets hurt all the time. Is there a disconnect right now between what you guys know how to do and what your body can do?
- [54:16]
Adam Ottavino
Yes, 100%. You're onto that.
- [54:18]
Bradley
How do you fix that?
- [54:19]
Adam Ottavino
Because the issue. The biggest issue is we. So we have a lot of knowledge, we have a lot of tools, we have a lot of measuring ability now in real time. Like, they do a better job now of monitoring different attributes of a player. Player's physical. You know, what's going on. They do a great job of that now. But every player faces different problems based on how they throw, how hard they throw, what their life's like, their body. Like, there's just a million different things to solve for. So I became really good at it. I didn't get hurt my last eight years playing, and. But again, though it was because I got hurt earlier and then I was able to fix those.
- [54:53]
Bradley
Yeah.
- [54:53]
Adam Ottavino
Functional problems within my own system. Whereas I think that's. That's the biggest problem. It's like, guys don't learn fast enough how to armor themselves, and they. Because they don't know what's going to break first until it happens. So that's. That's a fundamental problem. And then ultimately they're. You're forced to live in an environment where you have to chase crazy metrics to get on the field. So it always puts you at a little bit of a risk.
- [55:19]
Bradley
Yeah. Adam, what are the best ways for people to follow your order?
- [55:23]
Hugo
Work.
- [55:24]
Adam Ottavino
Check me out on YouTube, on my YouTube page. Adam, on Avino Zero, and on Baseball and coffee, where they're Monday through Friday, a little bit on Saturday. And, you know, I put up timestamps after the show so you don't have to be live if you don't want to be. But if you want to get in the chat and come hang out, you're more than welcome.
- [55:41]
Bradley
There you go. Thanks for joining.
- [55:42]
Adam Ottavino
Thank you so much.
- [55:45]
Bradley
Firewall is recorded in my bookstore, PNT Netware, located at 180 or Orchard street on the Lower east side of Manhattan. We'd love to hear from you with questions, feedbacks or idea for a guest. Just email me at Bradley Firewall Media or find me on LinkedIn. And to keep up with what's on my mind and my latest writing, please follow my new substack@bradleytus.substack.com thanks again for listening.