Dana Gould - Episode 1115

Summary

Fitzdog Radio Episode 1115

Guest: Dana Gould | Date: November 5, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode of Fitzdog Radio, comedian Greg Fitzsimmons welcomes fellow comic, writer, and friend Dana Gould for an in-depth, funny, and wide-ranging conversation. The two veterans of the Boston comedy scene reflect on their origins, discuss the evolution of stand-up, explore the effects of podcasting and social media on comedy, and share personal stories from the road—blending comedy nerdery, cultural critique, and their unmistakably self-deprecating style. The episode is rich with comedy history, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, philosophical musings, and sharp bits of wit.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter & Health Check-Ins (00:00-09:58)

• Greg’s post-surgery haze:
  Greg is freshly post-knee surgery and “a little bit drugged up,” which adds a loose, loopy flavor to the intro. He details his recovery process and upcoming comedy dates.
• Sports in LA:
  Greg celebrates a triumphant LA sports weekend: “We won the fucking World Series.”
• Best Buddies charity:
  Greg plugs his work with Best Buddies and the inclusion of breakout personalities from “Love on the Spectrum.”

2. Comedy Roots & Creative Side Projects (09:58-18:00)

• Dana’s comic persona and mental health transparency:
  Dana reflects on being lauded for openness about mental health in comedy:

  “Thank you for starting your HBO special with ‘Hello, I’m Dana Gould, and I’m in a lot of pain.’ That helped me a great deal.” (10:24)

• Mark Twain as Dr. Zaius:
  Dana describes his creative live bit as Dr. Zaius from “Planet of the Apes” performing as Mark Twain—a side project that’s grown from a hobby to a cult phenomenon.
• Audience connection:
  Dana acknowledges his “super-specific” core fans:

  “My audience is men my age who are me.” (17:52)

3. Music Heroes & Live Performances (18:00-22:00)

• Elvis Costello as a model for comedy sets:
  Dana and Greg discuss the importance of tight, impactful performances, riffing on musicians’ approach to live shows.
  • Dana’s faves: “I think King of America is his greatest album, but if you were introducing somebody to him, I would give them ‘This Year’s Model.’” (18:44)
• On doing long sets:
  “No, do it. Get off at 60 minutes exactly.” (19:40)

4. The Evolving Comedy Scene (22:00-35:00)

• Big shows vs. small rooms:
  Greg describes the “disconnected” feeling in massive arenas compared to the intimacy of clubs.
  • “You feel like you’re floating. Like there was no contact at any moment whatsoever.” (21:32)
• Club versus arena dynamics:
  Dana: “It has almost inverse to do with how good of a comedian you are sometimes.” (23:26)
• Comedy standards and joke theft in Boston:
  Both reminisce about the hyper-competitive, insular Boston comedy circuit.
  • Fistfights over jokes were commonplace: “A fight...over this joke: ‘Is it just me or does ET look like a piece of shit?’” (28:09)
• Different comedy worlds in Boston:
  “It looked like somebody spilled a bag of marshmallows.” (27:28) —on the diversity (or lack thereof) in the Boston scene.
• Rise of the ‘alt’ (alternative) scene:
  Dana discusses the split between mainstream and alternative rooms, and the impact figures like Jeanine Garofalo and Kathy Griffin had in blending and bridging those scenes.
  • “Kathy walked into that fully formed as Kathy Griffin...then she took off.” (35:20)

5. Inside Comedy: Craft, Longevity, and Personal Growth (35:00-44:30)

• The art of the personal:
  Dana credits the alt scene with helping him be more personal and authentic on stage.
• Staying power & pride:
  Both comics express gratitude for still filling seats decades into their careers:
  • “I’m so grateful that I still get to do it...put people in seats in Cincinnati or Acme...” (42:49)
• Balancing art and audience:
  Greg: “I want my peers to respect me. I want to do material that people don’t ever call hacky. But at the same time...I want these people to walk out happy.” (43:59)
• Approaching hot-button topics:
  Dana shares that framing issues through personal stories “puts people at ease.”

6. The Modern Comedy Landscape: Podcasts, Social Media, Economics (44:30-59:37)

• Rise of podcasting’s influence:
  Podcasting has shaped how audiences connect with comedians, for better and sometimes for formulaic worse.
• Dana’s podcast as art project:
  Greg: “You put more effort into your podcast than anybody does...It’s like Bob Dylan’s radio, but for no reason.” (38:00)
• Homage to Joe Frank and Theme Time Radio:
  Gould talks about his creative influences in podcasting—surreal, narrative radio legends.
• Comedy business realities:
  Discussion about shrinking club margins, added self-promo demands, “doing it all” (editing, marketing, posting).
• Economic pressures:
  Dana outlines how rising inequality and gig economy logics have fundamentally changed comedy careers:

  “Everybody is fighting harder for less money...You are not only fighting harder for less money, but you have to pick up all that slack and do all of this stuff yourself.” (59:29)

7. Culture, Politics, and Societal Shifts (59:37-64:26)

• AI, job loss, and social trends:
  Greg and Dana broaden the lens to societal issues, from the 2008 financial crisis aftermath to the rise of the gig economy and decline of universal culture.
• Public education & politics:
  Dana:

  “I don’t know where this ends. We are at a weird...beginning of the end. Of the end of the beginning...” (62:38)

• Slow pace of systemic change:
  Greg: “It’s not a sailboat...It’s a giant oil tanker.”

8. Fastballs with Fitz: Q&A Lightning Round (64:26-76:00)

• Clubs & Regrets:
  • Dana on the Friars Club and an uncomfortable lunch with Milton Berle.
  • Major regret: appearing in a documentary about Apu from “The Simpsons” and being edited unfairly:

    “The same question was asked of me 11 times until I finally went ‘I don’t know.’ And then that’s what they use.” (66:30)

• Fights on stage:
  • Dana recalls stopping a show at Cobbs in SF so the police could eject an unruly audience member. (67:51)
• Worst opener:
  • “Perry Kurtz...He looked like Mark Mothersbaugh from Devo but would strip...[He] had a motorcycle called the Pericycle...He was trying to pick up this waitress who was like 18, [so] I said, be careful, he has herpes.” (68:10)
• Eulogy wishes:
  • Dana jokes about who should eulogize him; “Maybe Bob [Goldthwait] would be good.” (70:39)
• On vacation styles:
  They compare philosophies: Dana wants to relax, Greg wants to explore.

9. Memorable Stories & Notable Quotes

• On joke theft in Boston:

  "If you stole somebody’s joke, you get beat up. Physical damage perpetuated on people." (27:51)

• Dana’s audience:

  "My audience is men my age who are me." (17:52)

• Club economics:

  "You get a percentage of the net, and they’ll take out sometimes 15, $20,000 in expenses...What are they spending? ‘Marketing’. I haven’t seen a fucking tweet!" (56:29)

• On the meaning of comedy:

  "To me...what comedy is [is] a person that is vulnerable. And you can relate to them...like Richard Pryor." (47:38)

• A hacky bit, by Dana Gould:

  "What I like about Halloween is it’s the first time kids are professionally lied to. ‘Fun size’ candy bars. It’s a lot less candy than you thought you were gonna get. That means it’s more fun." (77:29)

10. Tour Dates and Plugs (79:21-End)

• Both comics recall their early days working together (Punchline SF, radio promotions).
• Dana and Greg share upcoming tour dates in Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco, and beyond.
• Dana: “I will find out I have a gig by...getting tagged on Instagram. Oh, is that tonight?” (81:28)

---

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• Mental health in comedy:
  “I did Marin, and he was like, ‘You and Maria Bamford are really the two that, like, openly dealt with mental health issues.’” – Dana Gould (10:24)
• On Boston’s homogeneity:
  “It looked like somebody spilled a bag of marshmallows.” – Dana Gould (27:28)
• On joke theft repercussions:
  “You stole somebody’s joke, you get beat up. Physical damage perpetuated on people.” – Dana Gould (27:51)
• Summing up today's comedy business:
  “You are not only fighting harder for less money, but you have to pick up all that slack and do all of this stuff yourself.” – Dana Gould (59:29)
• On audience specificity:
  “My audience is men my age who are me.” – Dana Gould (17:52)
• Perspective on specials/albums:
  “I remember when having a special and having an album was like, you made it; now you— the MC has an album.” – Dana Gould (53:41)
• On Gratefulness:
  “I’m so grateful that I still get to do it. There are not a ton of people from our class still out there.” – Dana Gould (42:49)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening & Sports/Early Banter: 00:00–09:58
• Dana Joins, Mental Health Openness: 10:10–11:14
• Mark Twain/Dr. Zaius stories: 12:00–17:00
• Music & Stand-up Parallels: 18:10–22:00
• Comedy Evolution, Boston Tales: 22:00–35:00
• Comedy Craft, Staying Power: 35:00–44:30
• Comedy Biz, Social Media: 44:30–59:37
• Society, Politics, Economy: 59:37–64:26
• Fastballs with Fitz (Q&A): 64:26–76:00
• Hacky Bit, Storytelling & Tour Dates: 77:13-End

---

Closing Thoughts

This conversation between Greg Fitzsimmons and Dana Gould is a masterclass in stand-up comedy’s history, evolution, and inside baseball, but also an honest look at what it means to still be grinding creatively and personally in midlife. The camaraderie, quick-draw stories, and razor-sharp observations capture not just where comedy has been, but the very human anxieties and joys of making people laugh—on any stage, in any era.

Transcript

[Dana Gould]

Foreign.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Welcome to Fitz Dog Radio.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

I am your host who's a little bit drugged up right now. I got knee surgery this morning.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No big deal. Thank you. Thank you for reaching out.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Now I had a torn meniscus and. And they went in arthroscopically. I had to get up at 5 o' clock in the morning and get there. And they drug me up, cut me up and gave me some painkillers, which I'm on right now. So this can be a short intro if I can even stay conscious. And here's the best part is I went under. And all I'm thinking before I went under is, all right, make sure you ask them about physical therapy later. Ask them. I woke up and apparently the first thing I said was, did I fart? Did I fart at all? That was my concern. Yeah, apparently I didn't, but I had the night before, so I was thinking.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

About it.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

But yeah, so I'll be up and running tomorrow. I'll be on an exercise bike for 10 minutes, no resistance. And I'm supposed to add two minutes every day until I hit 30 minutes and then I can start. Start doing squats, baby. Get back. Get my ass back. Obviously, it was a big day here this weekend. We won the World Series, which is so great. And you. Look, I'm not gonna lie to you. I don't sit around watching Dodgers games year round, but I watched the whole. I've always been a postseason everything. Football is the only thing I really watch all season. But otherwise postseason, so exciting.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Such a great team.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

And just, you know, being in LA when it happened, I was. I had three shows on Saturday night. And so I got to my first show and the game was in the ninth inning when I went on stage and. And then I got off stage and it had gone to extra innings. And then I got to my next show and we were down and then I got to my final show and I was actually had. I had like a half an hour before I went on where I watched the thrilling conclusion. It was so great. I was at the Comedy Store and there's this patio out front on Sunset, and there was hundreds of people packed around this TV set and went bananas. And yeah, it was great. It was a great weekend for. For sports in la. We won. The Chargers won, the Rams won, the Ducks won. In hockey, we won the fucking World Series. And, you know, and again, like, I'm from New York, I grew up a Giants Mets fan.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

But I'm. I've been here 25 years. I'm not. I'm not the guy that's going to stay a Giants fan when they only telecast two Giants game a season. No, I'm going to watch the team. I get to watch. I'm going to be a fan of the team that's on every Sunday. So.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

All right, we'll get through this. Let's get through this. I also big shout out to Best Buddies, which is the group I work with. They help people with intellectual disabilities. Donate money there, if you have some at the end of the year. Best buddies.org I did a lot of fundraising for them this year to the point where I was a champion candidate. Which means.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, we did our Best Buddies benefit show last Sunday.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

I can't remember if I must talk to you guys after that. But then we had a gala event on Wednesday night where they honor the top 10 fundraisers, and I was one of them. And so we went and Annie Letterman came out, my buddy, the guy that I mentor, the comedian that I help, who's a buddy, he was there with his family and Chris Tenney. And it was just a great night.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It was a great night.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

And it was just funny seeing, like, the celebrities that have emerged from Love on the Spectrum.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Cause there was a lot of.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

There's a lot of people with disabilities that were there, but some of them get up and speak. And they were on Love on the Spectrum and, like, the place goes bananas. And, you know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you'd know if you watch the show.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

It's an amazing show. You have to watch it. Some of the big names from that were there. It was very. It was very cute. And then there's a woman named Franny Scheinbeck, I think her name was. But she calls herself Flavor Fran. And she. She has Asperger's. And she is a rapper. She calls herself the Rapping Jew. And she got up and she did a rap. And I talked to her after the show for a long time, and she was just so fucking fun, like, really funny and sharp. And she was making some. Some dark. I won't repeat the dark joke she was making. But I was.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I was.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Really glad to meet her. And we've been DMing each other. I'm gonna try to get her on stage, doing stand up at some point. Um, what else? I had a whole bunch of, like, bits I was gonna try to do, but I'm gonna save them for next week because I. I don't feel it. I feel like I need to sit in front of the tv. All right, so dates coming up this weekend. I'LL be fine. I'll be 100% in Chicago at the Den Theater on November 8th. Appleton, Wisconsin at Skyline Comedy Club November 9th. Lafayette, Louisiana Club 337 on November 12th. Then I'll be in Skank fest that week. Phoenix coming up, San Francisco, Habsburg Heights, New Jersey, Cleveland, Atlanta. Go to fitzdog.com get some tickets, come out, see some live comedy all. Also, the holidays are coming up and I like to think that I give you guys some good leads on things. But this particular Christmas, I want to talk about a company that is called Uncommon Goods. And it's basically a lot of handcrafted, independently owned. It's you know, like little artists that make stuff that's one of a kind where you buy a gift for a family member where they're not gonna, it's not from Banana Republic. They know you thought about them. You got them something very specific. They have these bound books that give the history of different sports teams. And my brother in law is a Jets fanatic so I got him this jets book and they engrave it with his name and it makes them feel, you know, they remember you, which, you know, so tired of giving disposable gifts. So they got all different categories of stuff. If you are a foodie, if you are a mixologist, I mean moms, dads, kids, everything, book lovers, they got stuff for everybody. But because it is limited supplies, because these are from artists, you should get on it sooner than later. I got something really nice for my daughter that I'll talk about later because I think she's in the next room. I don't know if she can hear me. So anyway, Uncommon Goods also gives back a dollar to a nonprofit partner of your choice when you buy something. They've donated more than $3 million to date, so you can feel good about that as well. Don't get pushed into that last minute thing where you're rushed and you're just buying gifts. Starts to feel like it's a to do list, which isn't how it should feel. This feels special. Get involved. So don't wait. Make this holiday the year you give something truly unforgettable. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com papers that's UncommonGoods.com papers for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon Goods. We're all out of the ordinary. Okay, let's get to it. My guest this week is a guy that, you know, he hails from Boston like me, and I think there's A certain brotherhood when you started comedy in the same town, especially when it's Boston at the time when we started. And he is just truly. He's a. He's a comics comic. I don't mean that to sound like he's not a club comic. He's both. He's a guy that, you know, has been doing it for God longer than I have, and, you know, HBO specials, Comedy Central specials. He was a writer for the Simpsons for a long time and created a show called Stan Against Evil on ifc, which I loved, but just really a guy that I respect so much. Always so happy to have him back on the show. He's a dear friend, and we had a really good talk last week. So Here he is, Mr. Dana Gould.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

My guest right now is the incomparable, always funny, sad man, Dana Gould.

[Dana Gould]

How are you? Good.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Excuse me.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Eddie Pepitone just was here two hours ago, so I'm dark.

[Dana Gould]

I understand.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Somebody said to me, like, pull that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Mic a little closer.

[Dana Gould]

Somebody said to me on a comment on something. Thank you for starting your HBO special with hello, I'm Dana Gould, and I'm in a lot of pain. That helped me a great deal. And I don't remember that. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Like, it's like when I do Marin's podcast, I did Marin, and he was like, you and Maria Bamford are really the two that, like, openly dealt with mental health issues.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

And kind of beat it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And.

[Dana Gould]

And I'm like, what beat it? But, like, I didn't realize, like, it was that. I just thought everybody was like that, I think. Yeah, no, it was. I was. I didn't know I was that singular. I'll put it that way.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, you are. But I'm trying to think of, like, I'm.

[Dana Gould]

I'm. I think of myself as somewhat normal now.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, now you're doing a lot of politics.

[Dana Gould]

Which regular guy with three nipples. Right. Like Christopher Lee in the man with the Golden Gun. I'm just a regular guy with a monkey talk show. What's up with you, Greg?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, the monkey talk show. I think I saw the incarnation of that. I think the first time you did it, we were going up to San Francisco. Yeah. That's what it was to do sketch fest. And you had it. And you were very nervous about what is this gonna work? And.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So explain what that is to people.

[Dana Gould]

Okay. For that I have this thing. It's a. It's not a side piece, is like a side career. No, it's just A hobby. It's like golf. I don't like. You know, it's like, it's people. You know, you have people. Like Stephen King is in a terrible garage band called the Rock Bottom Remainder.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I didn't know that.

[Dana Gould]

Yes. He and. Or like other people, like Cormac McCarthy painted like. It's just. My hobby is creative. And we had this idea a hundred years ago. I had this idea when I was writing on the Ben Stiller show for the dumont Network to do Planet of the Apes the musical as a sketch.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And it was just a commercial for it. Like, when Rent comes to the Amundsen, they have the commercial. And it would have been easy to shoot. And. Because I wanted to get in the makeup because I was a fan of the movies and I knew Ben was a fan of the movie, so sketch would get made. We got canceled before we could do it. The other sketch was because you have to. If you're going to spend that much money on a sketch, you've got to get some other. You got to milk it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

So there was a second sketch was from the producers of Planet of the apes, the Musical. Dr. Zayas is Mark Twain tonight. And saying, you know, shoot it at once to get too sketchy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And then 10, 15 years go by, and I was talking to John Hodgman, and it came up in conversation, and he went, oh, would you do that on my show at Sketchfest? And I was about to say, no.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Wait, do it because you still had the costume.

[Dana Gould]

I never had the costume.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I never had the costume.

[Dana Gould]

You know, Ben Stillisher had a makeup guy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But I'm friends with a lot of those people because I'm a monster movie nerd.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And I said. I was about to say no, and then I said, let me. Give me a minute. Because I did think, I'll tell you the idea. So I called Greg Nicotero, who is the executive producer of the Walking Dead. He does all of Quentin Tarantino's makeup in those movies. He does. You know, he's a huge, huge guy. Huge makeup effects guy. And I call him up and I was like, this was the conversation. Hey, do you have anybody over there that can do, like, a movie quality Dr. Zayas makeup on me in San Francisco? Like, we'll fly him up and put them up and pay him and everything. Hang on. Yeah, Andy, I'll do it. That was it. That was it. And so I did it. And what I thought was, this is pretty inside baseball. But, like, I knew when I came out, the idea Would get a laugh. Like, just the idea. But then I thought, when they see that it's not just a mask, that it's actually exactly what they think of in the movies. And I actually know how to do Mark Twain. I'm gonna get a much deeper, bigger laugh. And I literally wanted to see if I was correct.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And I was. And that was really good. It was quite. Quite an extensive. And then I did it a couple more times, like a political benefit. Somebody wanted me to do something. And then during the pandemic, Rob Cohen, who was my office partner at the.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Ben Stiller show, said, jill Lederman's husband.

[Dana Gould]

Jill Lederman's husband. I was with them last night.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Said, why don't we do this as a talk show during lockdown? Because we were going insane. So we did it like space ghost with people on a tv. And. And did it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Great.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And that was the. The origin of that. But.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And now you go all over the country doing it.

[Dana Gould]

I do. Yeah. I know. I now have a. Like a. I now have a very, very expensive mask.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes.

[Dana Gould]

That I can do. That looks like makeup. It works like makeup.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

How does the mask travel?

[Dana Gould]

In a very large, like, equipment case.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Like a. Like an accordion case. You know, like a big case.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And there's glue and there's paint. There's makeup and glue and wigs involved.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you do all that yourself when.

[Dana Gould]

If I'm filming it, I do regular makeup still. But if I'm on the road, I have that. Yeah. And I don't think you would be able to tell the difference. So I can tell the difference.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Do you get picked up from the hotel Wearing the mask?

[Dana Gould]

You do it at the night. And they say, like, when I was in moon tower.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Colleen was like, just put the makeup on it. No, absolutely.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I'm not walking through a lobby.

[Dana Gould]

I'm not walking around Texas. And it's. And, yeah, it's just. It's one of the. I don't know. I mean, I get. I have so many conversations with my manager that begin with, like, I tell them what I'm doing, and it just starts with. But I. I. I like that. I like. I like, like, are you. Do you watch the chair company? No, it's by the guy that did. I think youk should leave.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay. Oh, yeah. Andy. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Whatever his name is.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

He's great.

[Dana Gould]

Tim Robinson. Thank you. Tim Robinson.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

He's so good.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And I know that a lot of people look at that and go, it makes me uncomfortable. But it's I love it so much.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I love him so much.

[Dana Gould]

And it's just. I. I don't mind. Like when Joel Hodgson came up with Mystery Science Theater.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

I was with him when he came, when he started, when he pitched it to Comedy Central.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And he. He said, like, not everybody will get it, but the right people will get it. And I've taken that to an obscene degree.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Who is the person who gets it? Describe them.

[Dana Gould]

It's me. Andy Kindler summed it up. My audience is men my age who are me. Yeah. And then you do your regular stand up, which you hope appeals to more people, but your audience. Your audience grows with you, you know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, you're saying you dress up as this guy and then do your regular stand up.

[Dana Gould]

No, no, no. Then I'm saying, then when I do my regular stand up, it's a different thing.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Have you considered.

[Dana Gould]

It's a bigger audience. Yeah, but it's still your. But your audience still stays with you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

Like, I love Elvis Costello.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And I've moved to LA in 1989, and I see Elvis Costello every time he comes to town.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And it's the same people in the audience. And you see, oh, that guy got fat. Oh, that guy got ball. Oh, that guy goes. Oh, that guy. Oh, he looks good. He must have, you know. You know, it's just like. It's the same audience. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Best Elvis Costello album.

[Dana Gould]

Mine.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Favorite one. Well, there's. I think King of America is his greatest album, but if you were introducing somebody to him, I would give them this year's model. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

This year's model.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I mean, it's. It's like a jukebox of great pop songs.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And all of them just like a line drive.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes.

[Dana Gould]

Like, no filler on that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Tight, tight, hard album.

[Dana Gould]

You know, I saw him the first time I saw him. I saw him in 1985 or six in Boston and at the Beacon.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And they came out, they played the first song, I Don't Want to Go to Chelsea, and then they played 19 other songs and they never said a word and they walked off. Yeah. And I. And I thought, that's how you do that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, that's. I think the Ramones were the first ones to do that.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And just like, boom. And that is why, like, even with, like. I was never one of those people that. Remember when standup was like, I did seven hours.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Like, Dane Cook and Dave Chappelle were saying, like, I did the most standup before infinity. No, do it. Get off at 60 minutes exactly.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I do 50.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

If I'm. If I'm killing and it's a magic crowd, I'll do 60.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But 50 is the right amount.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I also think Elvis Costello has the best between song patter of any performer, but this was.

[Dana Gould]

There was nothing, you know, who was pretty great also, did you ever see Tom Waits?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Tom Waits is hilarious. Yeah, yeah, Tom Waits is hilarious.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I saw him do a show where it was just him and there was dust on the stage.

[Dana Gould]

I saw that show too.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And the overhead light.

[Dana Gould]

Was that at the Wiltern? Yeah, yeah, I saw that show.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, The Mule Variations to it.

[Dana Gould]

Exactly.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That was amazing. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And there was a woman in the front that was like doing hippie dancing. I mean, you're the wrong concert. This is like the audience for this show is like off duty organ grinders. Just guys, I hope the monkey's okay.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, right. Yeah. Guys that put a resume together to work as a carny.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But I love that. I mean, I love that era of show business. Like the big old blocky microphone or a bullhorn. Like, I love, you know, stand up is a gutter art form, you know, and I. And I like to keep it that way. That's why stand up works best where it doesn't belong. Stand up works best in a bookstore.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Or. Or, you know, I mean, you need physical things, a low ceiling and stuff. But, you know, you get these diamond vision screens and you're working in the enormous. These rooms are as. As Drake Sather used to say, you can't see the back of the room because of the curvature of the earth, you know, and it's just like.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, no, but these guys that are doing arena shows and I've done shows with Bert KREISCHER where it's 15,000 people and you walk on stage and there's a huge screen behind you and you start doing your act and you know, you got to give it a little more time for them to all. And then they laugh and then you do another joke and then they laugh and then you go for 15 minutes or whatever you're supposed to do, and then you say goodnight and they cheer and you walk off and you feel like. Like you're floating. Like there was no contact at any moment whatsoever.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, that is. I've. I've only the. I mean, I've done outdoor shows, like festival shows with a lot of people, but I've never done anything like that. And what is in. Yeah, I like. Goldthwaite opened for Adam Sandler and the last person. The last show in the venue was the who.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And then it was Adam Sandler. I don't know how to. How, you know, but those guys are used to it. I guess it's fine for them. But even at their peak, like Steve Martin, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, who were, to me, like, the. The biggest. I couldn't imagine being bigger than that. Their peak was, like, 3,000 people in the theater.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Dana Gould]

You know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

That was the most of those.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And the ticket prices were reasonable. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

It was like people paying a hundred bucks.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You're paying 100 bucks to sit in an arena and watch an act. And, you know, to me, it's like, all right, you think about Camille. Like, Eddie Pepitone, I was just talking to. And I was like, you know, it's kind of busting his balls. Like, you're one of the best comedians around, and yet you're playing his. I'm plugging his dates.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Was like, the Elks Club in Oregon.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I was like. And then you look at. Why is it that some people can play arenas and some people play the Elks Club? And it has almost inverse to do with how good of a comedian you are sometimes. Yeah.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

And I'm not knocking Burt.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Burt. What? Bert does great.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Burt's great.

[Dana Gould]

They're all great. I don't like. I'm not jealous of anybody. I like.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No, I'm just.

[Dana Gould]

No, I know you're not either.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I'm just trying to deconstruct what it is. And you think about it as. It's not always what's happening on stage. It's what's happening in the crowd.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Is there a collective something that happens where people go, this guy makes me feel good, or this guy makes me feel like an outlaw, or this one makes me.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. I don't know. Matt Rife. I've never met Matt Rife. If he walked in here, I probably wouldn't recognize him.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

I think that people go to his shows because it's a community thing. Like, we are angry guys that feel aggrieved, and we don't want to have to be polite to people. We miss that. And it's sort of bias confirmation more than a standup show.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And, you know, and in terms of the crowds, that's. I always imagine, like, how did Leonard Cohen feel looking at where Kiss was playing? You know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But I mean, it's like you and Eddie, I think, are similar in the sense that you're very specific in what you do. You're very true to yourselves. And I think that, for me, you're the kind of comics I want to see more than anybody else, because there's something so raw about it, and yet there's the craftsmanship of having done it for as many years.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. That's the other thing. And I don't know. And you're in this category, too. It's always great when I see somebody new that really knows how to do it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes.

[Dana Gould]

And there are people, and they will go nameless, that are young comedians that I really like, that I'm friends with, that I support. And I look at them and I go, you don't know how to do this.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But it's okay because the audience doesn't know it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

You know, the audience is a different. You know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You mean they like. The audience likes them.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. Right, right, right. But it's just like, I could see where that joke was.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And you didn't make the joke. It's like you had a bowl of flour with an egg in it, and you said it was a cake, but no, it's not. You have what you need to make a cake, but this is not a cake, and people love it anyway, so it's like, you know, more power to you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes. But it's really like when you see somebody who comes along, like, you know, I saw this. This kid Marcelo. He's on SNL now, and I saw him do Stand up.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

And, I mean, I think he'd been.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Doing it for four years. And I was just like, you, man, you can't be this good.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But the thing was, he said to me, dude, I love you. I love that special you did. Life on stage.

[Dana Gould]

Blah, blah. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then the night they. He knew everybody in the room.

[Dana Gould]

Yes. They're students of it. Yes. Students. Yeah, I know. I have. I've met those people, too. And you can tell.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Like, you know how to write a. You know how to structure a joke. You know how to write a joke. And that's. You know, it's so funny. Making a weird announcement. That's what the song who Are youe? Is about.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. It's when. It's about when Pete Townsend met the Clash.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No shit.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And he met the Clash. It got drunk and passed out and was woken up the next day by a car.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No shit.

[Dana Gould]

And he was like, but thank. You know, thank God somebody out there knows what this is and is still doing it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Wow.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's so funny.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. And I think that I would like. Coming up In Boston, which you. How much time did you spend as a comic in Boston?

[Dana Gould]

A lot. I mean, 82 to 86.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay. So we were brought up and then.

[Dana Gould]

Back there every other month.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But it was Comedy University because it was a closed system. The thing that was unusual about Boston, they didn't bring in outside headliners.

[Dana Gould]

Very multicultural. I'm kidding. It looked like somebody spilled a bag of marshmallows.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. And they were all male marshmallows.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right. But the comedy that you were exposed to and held, you were held accountable for your acts in Boston. No kidding.

[Dana Gould]

Like you. Yeah. And if you stole somebody's joke, you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Get beat up physically.

[Dana Gould]

You know, the. The. You can swear on this. I'm sure there was a fight, a fist fight between, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Jay Charbonneau and DJ Hazard.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Nice.

[Dana Gould]

Over this joke. Are you ready?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Is your funny belt. Is your hilarity harness tight? Is it just me or does ET look like a piece of shit? Physical damage perpetuated on people. Ah, that's great. And there was another one. There was a. Yeah, but it was like, you had to be good. And if you. Yeah. God help you if you stole somebody.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No. There was a guy named Kevin. Knox. Do you remember Knoxy?

[Dana Gould]

I remember Knox.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And Noxie had this joke that somebody stole from him and he beat him up. And the joke was. Do you know what AIDS stands for?

[Dana Gould]

I know this joke.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Adios, infected dick sucker.

[Dana Gould]

That was not Kevin's.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No, that was Kevin someone stole it from. And Kevin beat him. I don't remember the kids.

[Dana Gould]

And that's the thing, because I've. That was the joke that I was citing the other day. There was stuff in Boston in the 80s that was comedy that today would just be. Hate speech.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, right.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But you know Charbonneau's joke about. Now this was a joke.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Anybody who would rather stick his dick in shit than a pussy deserves to die. No. And people.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And. And even at the time, I was like, well, that's harsh. But it was just like. It was so. Such a different world.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But it was a different world, but it also had different worlds in it. Like you had Nick's Comedy Stop.

[Dana Gould]

And by the way, I just want to say, I don't necessarily agree with that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

We do not endorse the views held by Jay Charbonneau, but it was a different. It had different sections to it. Like, Nick's Comedy Stop was basically. It was run by the mob. And there were absolutely the mob depicted.

[Dana Gould]

In the movie the Departed.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes. And the cops would stand in the back and hookers would come in and out because it was in the red light district. And those were the jokes that got told there. But then across town in Cambridge, the.

[Dana Gould]

Red light district, which was called the Combat. The combat zone.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

I don't know why.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Because it's actually not the combat zone. It's actually the affectionate zone.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Exactly. Unless you refuse to be affectionate. That's the combat zone. But then across, down in Harvard Yard, you've got Catch Rising Star, which is being curated by this guy, Robin Horton. And it's all very esoteric, it's political, it's experimental. It's where David Cross Basically, Mr. Show started in with Paul Kozlowski. Paul Kozlowski. And who else was a part of that?

[Dana Gould]

Jim DiCrodo.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Dave Waterman.

[Dana Gould]

Yep. Jim DiCroto was a part of that. Laura Kitelinger.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Kite Langer was. Marin was in and out of that. Garofalo was in and out of it. So anyway, it was the opposite of that world. And it was really like, one side, really, you know, shit on the other side.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then there were guys like us. I did both. I worked both worlds.

[Dana Gould]

I did both. I was kind of gone by that time. I. That was like 87, 88. I was already in San Francisco.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay.

[Dana Gould]

But I did that when I came down here, when Jeanine and I got the alternative scene on Cabaret. Yeah. And that kind of started before in Cabaret. It was Big and Tall Books. And it was me, Jeanine, Colin Quinn. Nope, before any of those people. Me, Jeanine, Colin Quinn, Stiller and a couple other people. That was it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Big and Tall Book. Andy Dick and Dino Stampinopoulos.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, wow.

[Dana Gould]

And that was at Big and Tall. And then Margaret and Moon Zappa was around. That was a Big and Tall Books. And then it branched into Uncabaret. But I was also. And that was in response to the improv, because this was at the time where people forget. At the end of the 80s, comedy boom, stand up comedy was so. People were so exhausted by it that Hack Stand Up Comedians was a sketch on snl. Remember Tom Hanks and those guys, Here she Comes and There she Goes. And that was making fun of Jerry Seinfeld before the show. Seinfeld, yeah, it was making fun of that. The suit jacket rolled up to your elbow.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Dana Gould]

The sneakers, everything. Piano tie, everything. And that was like a hackneyed stereotype that they made fun of on. On that show. And so we. Janine, it's so funny. It's full circle. Janine and I went to see Elvis Costello at the Universal Amphitheater. And we were looking at all those people saying, why aren't these people in comedy clubs? And it's because they'd been chased out of comedy clubs with a stick. And so we said, we have to go to where the audience is. The audience isn't coming to us anymore. So we went into this hipster bookstore and started doing shows. And that was the beginning of it. But at the same time, I was hanging out with Kevin Rooney all the time, and Kevin Rooney and Bill Maher and Larry David and all those guys. So I went. I was the only person in the alt scene, quote unquote, that did both.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you were also going on the road and you were headlining a room by then.

[Dana Gould]

I was middling for Rooney a lot.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Really?

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. Yeah. And the weird thing is because of that, like, I belonged to two classes, like Larry David and Bill Maher, and all those guys think that I'm in their class.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And Janine and Patton and those guys think that I'm in their class. And I am socially.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And age wise. But I was the only one that went back and forth. And when a lot of the guys that started off in the alt scene, that kind of got known in the alt scene, then they would go on the road and they would come back with, like, two black eyes. Yeah. No, you can't talk about your audition in Cincinnati. They don't care.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I know they don't care. It's interesting because the. And. And, you know, there's. There's. There's guys that have been. And some women that were part of that scene that are still fucking going, you know.

[Dana Gould]

Well, the person that. The person that took what they. I mean, I absolutely became the comedian that I am today in that scene. Like, I learned how to do what I do.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Get personal.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And just talk. Yeah, exactly. But the person that really perfected it, that went from. They were fully formed and they were looking for an outlet, and then they found it there, and then were able to take it out into the masses without changing a goddamn thing. Kathy Griffin.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, right.

[Dana Gould]

Kathy walked into that fully formed as Kathy Griffin, and it was just. Was just looking for the right vehicle and then bang. And then she took off. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, I think Garofalo to some extent, too, because, you know, people don't realize Jeanine was a club comic before she was an alternative comic. She was a successful headlining, like, Joke out Of Boston comic.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then she. She started hitting these rooms that were a little more esoteric and changed her style and then went back on the road, started doing theaters.

[Dana Gould]

The whole thing was her idea.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Was that right?

[Dana Gould]

It was. Yeah. Me and her and Colin.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, she's great. I love Jeanine.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And still doing it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Yeah. She's in New York banging it out.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. She had one of my favorite jokes. And Janine has one of the most sophisticated senses of humor.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

You know, like, we loved Albert Brooks, but not even like Albert Brooks. Like, the most obscure bit from one of his albums, like, the weird minor look or thing like that is the stuff that we would laugh at.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And to this day, if I see her, I'll say, like, the most obscure line from an Albert Brooks album, and she'll break up. She used to have a joke, like, when you do this and people go the time. No, what bone is this? And that joke's from 1990. And it still makes.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Hilarious.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, it still makes me laugh.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. I remember she had. She had a joke where she was talking about. Oh, it's one of those movies where, like, halfway through, Robert Duvall has to wake the President.

[Dana Gould]

I don't even remember what the joke was, but it was about the Warrant video for the song Cherry Pie. And at one point, it invoked the phrase down at Warrant hq.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Hilarious. All right, so let's talk about you. Now. You're writing. You're doing. What's it called? Captain. Who's your. Who's your masked character? I am such not a nerd.

[Dana Gould]

Doctor. Doctor.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Dr. Z. Hello.

[Dana Gould]

No, yeah, I have two. I have. I have. I have. Yeah, I have Dr. Z, but that's my hobby. That's my fun.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

And I have my little podcast and stuff like that. And then.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It's not your little podcast. It's like a kind of a piece of art. Like, you put more effort into your podcast than anybody does, but I feel like it's like Bob Dylan's radio, but for no reason.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. Because no one cares.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But, you know, I mean, no, it's.

[Dana Gould]

Completely stolen from Theme Time Radio.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, it's completely stolen from. And a guy named Joe Frank who passed.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay.

[Dana Gould]

Joe Frank had a show on NPR here in LA in the early 90s called in the Dark, and it was on Sunday mornings, and everybody listened to in the Dark, and he would use these sound loops just like. Not just like, music. And he would. He has very hypnotic voice, and he would tell a story about five men that had been working in sales. And they felt. And they started to decide that they were going to climb Mount Everest. And they. And then it's. It's. And then it's like. And he goes. And it. It's fascinating and that. And you just. You're listening. And then like, you know, four days into the trip, you know, Mike and Carl realized they couldn't go on. Stopped at the place and opened up a small gift shop. And then it would just slowly unravel into these like, brilliant. Like super. So brilliant and so great.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So it's just him narrating and then different sound effects and. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And people come. I would go on a. David Cross went on it a lot because he went to Uncabre a lot and he kind of like. But the story. You can hear them still in the dark. Joe Frank. They were really like Tom Waits kind of stories, like, really brilliant. And would un. Unspool so slowly.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But I. But he had these music beds under it that. That looped you in. You couldn't. You couldn't turn it off. And he. And he did like a crazy play by play of the O.J. like, he would do like the O.J. trial.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, really?

[Dana Gould]

And he would do like, he would like, do recreations of the O.J. trial and interview people involved in the trial.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

No, it's just like.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And.

[Dana Gould]

And again, it was. It was a lot like Phil Hendry, like, if you didn't know it was a joke when you first turned it on, you're like, what?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Dana Gould]

And when I first. When Marin's podcast went big, everyone's gone now, rip.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You know, here's the thing. When mine ends, you'll know. Cuz I didn't show up. And it's not in the feed. I'm not gonna have a party. Not gonna have the president on. We get it.

[Dana Gould]

He got the president on.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

He got the president on for his last podcast. I mean, if you have that kind of energy, just keep doing the fucking podcast.

[Dana Gould]

What are you doing? What are you doing?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I'll know the end is on when I have, you know, when I sleep in. Yeah. When I just stop. Yeah, stop.

[Dana Gould]

No, it's amazing. But people just say, you should do a podcast like Marin's.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

To which I would say, why? What is the point of doing something like that?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

I want to. So I eventually came up with the idea of what I. I like the idea. The original idea was do an interview, cut it up into segments, put music underneath it, and then scramble the segments.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

So you're just like, Walking to a party, overhearing snatches of conversation.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And then it got very confusing for people, so I. I put them in linearly, but I still break it up with music. And. And I have like. It's like 10 segments and. And then it kind of grew into its own monster. But it's just like, you want it to be special. You want it to be something. And. Yes. My. Like, my current podcast is 4 hours and 10 minutes. And is it really the current episode? The Halloween episode always has really. It's two very long interviews and two 25 minute deep dives into topics. And I don't know. I have no. I. Again.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Do you edit it?

[Dana Gould]

Cue my manager.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, yeah, I. Do you edit it all yourself?

[Dana Gould]

I. But I have two people put it together for me and. But I go through the interviews and edit them. Yeah. But then somebody. And there's audio draw. I don't know what. I don't know why. It's just. I can't do it. Any of it's like, stand up. Why do you do. I don't know why I can't. It's the only thing I do.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Interesting.

[Dana Gould]

And then I write to make actual money because none of that stuff.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

Makes money. People ask me, like, what's the deal with Dr. Z? I'm gonna do it till I make a profit, and then I'll stop.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, now you're. Now we're work. We're working with the same agent.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. I'm excited about it. I'm excited about it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, you should be excited about the Midwest in January and February because that seems to be his gift. He's got this talent for getting me in the Midwest in January.

[Dana Gould]

I am so happy. And this sounds like really sweaty, but, like, I'm so grateful that I still get to do it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes.

[Dana Gould]

Because there are not a ton of people from our class that are still out there. You could say a lot of people escaped, but other people, like, no, I love that I can still put people in seats in Cincinnati or Acme or someplace like that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And I feel. And I know you feel the same way. Like when I get off stage after an hour or 50 minutes, like, that is as good as that can be.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

That are. That craft.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

Like, I'm not the greatest, but that nobody walked out of that going. I don't think.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

You know, it's like, nope, that's a. That's as good as that is.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, and I know that a lot of these clubs because you see the flyers and the posters about who's coming up and you find out who was just there. And I do walk off stage going like, what I just did is. I'm not saying better is different than anything else that those people are doing. And I feel like I'm doing it at a level that I'm proud of.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And that's always been my barometer. Like, I've always felt like I want my peers to respect me. I want to do material that people don't ever call hacky.

[Dana Gould]

Right.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But at the same time, it's equally shared with. I want these people to walk out happy. I don't want to. You know, Like, I think there's a way to do politics and talk about culture. If it's funny enough, it works anywhere.

[Dana Gould]

And what I do is I always. I don't talk about Trump or the Republican. I talk about my brother.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

Because everybody has a brother that they drives them crazy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

So I'm not going to talk about anti vaxxers, but I will talk about my brother does want to get vaccinated. And if I talk about guns, I say, I have a gun. I have a hilarious, hilarious joke to inoculate. I say before anybody gets. I have a gun because I live in a big, scary city and I'm afraid the day might come when I have to kill my family or somebody I meet that I disagree with, or a guy likes a band that I don't, and it escalates. I want a gun. But so you. You kind of like. But then that puts people at ease. Because even if. Even if you are a political troglodyte, if you paid to get into a club, I don't want you to feel bad. Yeah, I don't. You know, that might be my bad. But, like, I don't want you to feel. And. And it is. And this is a larger issue. You know, people do have more in common than they are. Have differences.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes.

[Dana Gould]

But there's no money in it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

And all of the things that we are fed during the day are designed for confirmation bias and to provoke conflict. Because conflict keeps you on the app, and the longer you're on the app, the higher their ad rates. It's called conflict entrepreneurship, and it is a cancer in our culture. It really is.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. And the standup has become an extension of podcast.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Everything.

[Dana Gould]

Everything has.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But I think the podcasting has affected the. The kind of comedy you're seeing, especially with the bigger acts. You know, it's an extension of. They've got 5 million listeners and now they're going to come to your town and do stand up. Now they're going to want you to do the kind of opinionated. In your face.

[Dana Gould]

Of course.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I'm so.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I want to go on stage and go. I'm questioning some shit. Here's some things I know.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

But I'm not going to fucking pontificate.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And shove anything down your throat.

[Dana Gould]

Right. Yeah. And that's the whole. And. And that's an. An aspect of comedy that I don't get when I feel like I was talking to Goldthwaite. Like, sometimes I feel like I should be performing in a museum. I just. Did you see the documentary about John Candy? No. Okay. It's really brilliant.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And it'll make you cry. You know, John Candy was hilarious. So funny. And his whole Persona was of a guy that was out of shape, felt bad about it, doubted himself, made mistakes, was a loser, and owned it and tried to do better. He was. And that's who he was in life. He was so human.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Right.

[Dana Gould]

That, to me, is what comedy is. A person that is vulnerable. And you can relate to them because, like, Richard Pryor, you know, all that first concert movie of talking about all the things that he's effed up in his life. Yeah. And like. And that's the whole muscle thing. It's like, there's nothing funny about a guy with jacked muscles. There's nothing vulnerable. But. Yeah, it's not vulnerable. It's not relatable. It's not. You can do that, but you're not funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Right.

[Dana Gould]

You know, and I remember Keenan Wayans, like, going on stage at the improv with these polo shirts on and just giant ham biceps. And guys don't laugh.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

Because it's threatening. Right.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I think Eddie Murphy went down that road, too. I mean, when he was. He was young enough to not have an ego about how he looked. And then he started to think how beautifully was. And he only made movies where he played a super cool guy.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And all of a sudden it was like, this guy's not interesting at all.

[Dana Gould]

At all. At all.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

He corrected.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Oh, did he?

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, Well, I think so. I think with Dolomite is my name.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Dana Gould]

That was beginning of, like.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

That was great.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

I mean, I will see. I'm a. I. I love Eddie Murphy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

I will see. Even his bad movies, I go see. But those movies like the Clumps and the Nutty professor, he should get an Academy Award.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Like, you sit at a table in seven different makeups and do Seven completely specific.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Unique characters that I can still quote. I mean, he is like Peter Sellers.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

He. Wow.

[Dana Gould]

He's bringing something down from outer space. Yeah. It's just too. It's too good.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I thought. Because, like, the. When he did SNL, the last one, that was the 50th anniversary show, it was very funny.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

The one before that, he came out and he just talked like a cool guy and didn't even try to be funny. And you're like, dude, come back.

[Dana Gould]

I also think he hates Lorne and he didn't want to do anything.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, is that right for Lorne?

[Dana Gould]

That's my guess.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Did you ever audition for snl?

[Dana Gould]

Oh, my SNL audition story is. Is funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Really?

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And this has been confirmed on other podcasts by the other two participants.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay.

[Dana Gould]

I was brought to Chicago, flown with two other comics to audition for SNL from San Francisco. From la.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Huh.

[Dana Gould]

And we performed along with Stephen Leo, if you remember. Stephen Leo? Yeah. Leo Allen and Steve Rudnick and Leo Benvenuti.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, no, I'm thinking of a different.

[Dana Gould]

They went on to write the Santa claus movies for 10.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay.

[Dana Gould]

But there was, like, Steven Leo and then us three.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And I had the set of the night. I had characters whittled to a fine point, and everything was just like. And. And the response was like, stephen Leo, the other guy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Me and the other guy, Don Knotts.

[Dana Gould]

Just one of the.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Everything. Yeah, everything.

[Dana Gould]

My God. It was just. And we all walked out of there thinking, I got it, all of us. And I, in my head, was immediately thinking about, like, do I get rid of my apartment? Do I sublet my apartment? What kind of boxes do I buy? Do I get them in my car? And I'm looking at these two other guys, we went out after for a drink, and nobody, you know, we all, like, were keeping our cards close to our chest, but we all thought I had. And I'm looking at these guys going, chris Rock, Adam Sandler, this is my time. You guys will get your chance. Don't get too close. I'm burning too brightly right now. And what happened, happened.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Ten years later, my first wife was an executive, and she goes to New York, and she meets with Chris Rock about something. And she comes back and she says, you know that story you tell about snl? And I go, yeah. She goes, it's true.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

What? That you killed.

[Dana Gould]

I go, what do you mean? She goes, that, like, you killed and thought you got it. And they did, too. Because Chris just said. Told me that same Story.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Really?

[Dana Gould]

And I was like, well, so you think I've been lying for 10 years?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, my God.

[Dana Gould]

But I think it. But again, it all worked out. Like, that's why whenever terrible things happen, I'm like, yeah, you don't know how this is gonna work out. If I got in that show. Yeah. I would not have my kids.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, okay.

[Dana Gould]

Because we wouldn't. We hadn't been dating long enough for. To survive that. And.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Then we wouldn't have our kids.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you probably wouldn't have been on the Simpsons, and I probably wouldn't have.

[Dana Gould]

Done well on the show because I don't do well. And that kind of cutthroat. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Nobody comes out the other side feeling good. Even, like, Will Ferrell talks about how intensely anxious he was the whole time.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

And.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Miserable. And it's like, but you did it.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

For, like, 15 years or something.

[Dana Gould]

No. Haters said he wouldn't sleep. Like, starting, like, on Thursday, he would stop sleeping. Yeah. And he wouldn't sleep until the show was over.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And yet he stayed on the show forever, too.

[Dana Gould]

I wouldn't have survived that at all.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

God, what is that? I wonder how many people even watch the show anymore. You know, I think they.

[Dana Gould]

I mean, I'm sure with clips, it's.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But I think they watched the clips.

[Dana Gould]

The special thing is where the ironically named special.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, right, right.

[Dana Gould]

That, like, I remember, like, when having a special and having an album was like, you made it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And now you. The MC has an album.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. You know. Right. And they're all selling it after the show. Yeah. Hey, do you mind if I sell my doilies after the show? And then the other guy goes, do.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

You mind if I got welcome mats?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you're like, okay. So by the time I pitch my pins.

[Dana Gould]

Right. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It's gonna sound like we've got a fucking bizarre going in a lot from Green Acres.

[Dana Gould]

I have no stick pans. Can I sell those? Yeah, no, I know. It's. It's. But I mean, the. Everything has changed. Like, our business has changed drastically with everybody else's.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And, like, I thought I had social media down. I don't know 10% of what I should know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, you were a big Twitter guy. I used to read your tweets. You always had great tweets.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Do you still do Twitter?

[Dana Gould]

No, I left when he took it over.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, you did?

[Dana Gould]

When he put the X on the building, I was out because I used to work in that building.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Really?

[Dana Gould]

San Francisco? Yeah, it was live. 105 was downstairs. And it was just so gross.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And it, you know, and it was just like, I don't want to be a part of this. I don't want to funnel any more money into this jerk's pocket.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

I'm on Blue sky and Threads, but it's not the same. And. And neither is X anymore. It's a cesspool. But. But just in terms of like posting clips and Instagram and like, I thought.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I had it good, but now it's a full time job. If you're not waking up every morning.

[Dana Gould]

You have to walk around like this.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

All right. Buying plums. Plum life. You know, it's like, Jesus Christ. You know? I know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It's like I sometimes look up and I go, oh, my God. I. I mean, I post the podcast every week. Like, there's a little thumbnail about the podcast. Other than that, sometimes a month ago by, oh, I didn't post anything.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Like nothing. And you realize, like, the way we used to fight to get on late night tv, like you said, like it meant something or to get a special. Like, that's. That energy should be shifted over to something that I'm not interested in at all. Like doing late night TV was playing the sport that I play.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well put.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And now I got to be a producer and an editor and a marketer.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, yeah. And you got to do it all. It's. We're so close to going to the club. Like, you have a mic, right?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, right, right. I know. They don't do anything.

[Dana Gould]

You're bringing your own. You bringing your feature? No.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, no, actually they're coming around people, they're realizing how stupid that was. And there was a period where they did that. And I'm finding now, you know, because I have a Google alert set for my name and I'll see every day there'll be five or six, you know, social media posts from the clubs that I have coming up. Which is brand new.

[Dana Gould]

Right.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It's like, why is that brand new? And meanwhile, when you work the club, if you get a percentage of the door, it always says minus expenses right before. So you, so you get a percentage of the net and the. And they'll take out sometimes 15, $20,000 in expenses and you go to your agent. Well, what's, what are they spending? Marketing. I haven't seen a fucking tweet I haven't seen. There's no newspaper articles, They've got no radio lined up for me. What's the $15,000?

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But now if it goes, it goes. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, you got to promote your own shit. And then you got to do the kind of shows that people. Nothing's ever going to beat you. Killing and them coming back with friends to see you next time.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And that's the kind of what I've been counting on all these years is just do good shows.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. Well, what, you know, it's interesting of what has happened in the. In the. In the. In the financial crisis in 2008. You know, this giant pile of money was taken out of the economy and it was never put back. And then in an attempt to.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

In other words, it was given to bankers who just put it in there.

[Dana Gould]

Well, it was. The bankers set it on fire.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And that whole crash.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And then they were bailed out.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But the money was never put back in. So everybody is fighting for a smaller pile of money.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And then to spur the economy to regrow that pile, we gave them all of these tax breaks that we had to pay for, and then they took that and they kept that, too.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

Which is why now, one thing that we have now that we didn't have then are a lot of billionaires.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

We didn't have billionaires before. Now we have because. And everybody is fighting over a smaller and smaller and smaller pile of money.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Now to that then you have the acts. You add the rise of social media where everybody is the star of their own movie and everybody is. And there is no more Universal. Universal entertainment.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

We don't all go to watch, you know, Letterman or, you know, it's like appointment television. All that stuff is by and large gone. So we are doing. Fewer people are going out because they have less money. You know, and then if you, if you want to prove it, like, look, you're. You didn't have to also be a cab driver.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

You know, you didn't. You know, it's like, you know, your. Your. Your car is a cab, your house is a hotel, and the great new restaurant is a truck.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

That's not coincidence.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

And so it's left for you to. You are not only fighting harder for less money, but you have to pick up all that slack and do all of this stuff yourself.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

So it's just the result of the fact that we are fighting harder for less money because of what happened.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, I think that all. Well said. And I think it.

[Dana Gould]

That's my pickup. If you were a woman, I would.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Have just closed it with the mask on.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. As Martin by The way the hands, the hands are the worst part. It's not even the mask because I still have to use the bathroom.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But I think it's the same for jobs, like as AI replaces jobs and as corporations squeeze, they bring in consultants and then they say, well, this, you know what, this person could actually do better. Both those jobs.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then you suddenly you're working longer.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Hours for less money.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

And you're having a.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Somehow like waitress on the weekends because you're getting paid less to do more.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. And again, George Carlin saw all this 30 years ago and has a bit about it. He's like, you know, they don't want, you know, it's. If you watch this bit about education, he goes, there's a reason your education is not going to get better. They don't want you smart. And I'm not a conspiracy guy. I'm not. But I do believe that people have the same interests and corporations do better with a workforce that is not hampered by critical thinking and just do it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And shut up. And I do agree that even if it's not spoken, there's no motivation to have really smart, well adjusted people that can see through the bullshit.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Are you saying the appointment of the wife of professional wrestling to the head of education was not meant to improve it in some way?

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. If only this started. Yes. I think she is a good person, but she looks like. She looks like somebody who, like an alien had just taken all of the liquid out of their body. You know, it's like the missing link between man and Crouton. But this started in the 80s.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

With, with the Reagan. When. The Reagan. When they started to defund public education.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Dana Gould]

And. And now. And now the, the latest shell game is school vouchers.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Vouchers.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

What that does is give your tax breaks to wealthy people.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Because they give $10,000 to a family to send their kid to private school, which costs $50,000 a year, which means none of the poor people can do anything with that $10,000. But the rich person who was already sending their kids saves 10 grand, is saving 10 grand off the 50. Yeah. And meanwhile, resources are allocated to the public schools based on the number of kids in that school. So now you take 20 kids out of that school, there's $200,000 less that the public school gets.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. I don't know where this ends.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

I don't. I mean, there's. We are at a weird. I think we're at the. We're at the beginning of the end. Of the end of the beginning of a. Either a good tip or a bad. A good. A good tip or a bad tip, you know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. But the changes happen, you know, every time we put a new president and they go, well, look, his economy and his. That. It's like, no, this is a, this is not a sailboat. A small sailboat that cuts back and forth. It's a giant oil tanker.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And it moves very. It turns very slowly and it's very hard to turn it back and get.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

It back on course.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Rick Overton used to say that the country is a Mack truck and every four years we put like an eagle or a bulldog on the hood.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But I actually think there's more to it than that, as recent events have. Have shown. But yeah, no, it is. And you know, I don't know if, you know, there's such. It's interesting, it'll be interesting to see what happens in New York if Zoramindani is elected mayor and if he does a really good job. And people might realize, you know, because people like socialism, like, well, do you like the army and the post office?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Do you like to retire?

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, there's, there's, you know, again, like, keep your filthy hands off. Keep. Keep your government hands out of my Medicare. You know, it's like people don't even.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And they've just been instructed.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Dana Gould]

It. It'll be, it'll be interesting to see because I don't understand. As a Henry Ford paid his workers enough to buy the car they made.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

That doesn't. You can't do that now.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right. All right, listen, Danigle, let's get to fastballs with Fitz.

[Dana Gould]

I was gonna say, this is like, you don't get this on Fallon. Let's get back to blindfolded. Ganipkinob Alan Dershowitz for $20.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

All right. Have you ever joined a club.

[Dana Gould]

Like.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

An organization, any kind of organization?

[Dana Gould]

I, I'm a member of a tennis club.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Are you?

[Dana Gould]

Well, yeah, but it's more of a athletic. Use the gym.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dana Gould]

Because it's me and a bunch of 80 year old guys and I'm sunny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I love that.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. I joined the Friars Club in New.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

York for that reason.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I was the youngest guy. That was the best.

[Dana Gould]

I got. I got like poached to do the fry. I had lunch with Milton Berle.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You did?

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, at the LA Friars Club. Friedman took me over.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's really cool.

[Dana Gould]

It was. I couldn't Wait to get out of there.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

The LA one was horrible.

[Dana Gould]

I smelled like his cigar.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And it was the week Never Mind came out. And it was so, like, full of youth and energy. And then it's like, you know, Duke Mitchell, that's a singer, you know? And I got out of there and I was like, blow. Blasting that music and trying to get the cigar out of my hair.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes. Somebody was asking me about the LA one.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

It's.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It was the opposite of the New York one.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

What. What project do you regret.

[Dana Gould]

That I did?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

I offered to be in the. To Be a Good Guy. I agreed to be in the documentary about Apu and then was edited to look like an asshole.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No shit.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

An asshole.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

In what way?

[Dana Gould]

The. The same question was asked of me 11 times until I finally went, I don't know. And then that's what they use. And you look like.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, because they needed a villain.

[Dana Gould]

So. Yeah, why not use this guy that's doing us a favor?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, that's great.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, it worked out really well.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

What's the closest you ever got to a fight on stage?

[Dana Gould]

Oh, at Cobbs Comedy Club in San Francisco. I literally stopped the show and the police had to come to get rid of this person. And I looked back on that. I got to the point where I was like, did that really happen? You know, have you ever done that? Like, did that happen? Did I imagine that? And then about a month ago, a guy said, I was there. I was there one night and I was so excited. I was in San Francisco for one night and I went to a comedy club. And then you stopped it and the police came.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, it sounds like me.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

It sounds like.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. I was in Tampa Bay at the Tampa Bay Improv, which is one of my least favorite clubs in the country.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, I did that. What a. I didn't like that.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Oh.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And it's one of these things where, again, somebody came up to me years later and reconfirmed what I thought was a dream. Two dwarfs had a fight in the audience and were thrown out by the bouncers. Thrown out.

[Dana Gould]

And was that the origin of dwarf throwing?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I think so. That was the first place. Who's the worst?

[Dana Gould]

Was it like a fight because one was pressuring the other to join the Lollipop Guild?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. He said, you're looking down on me. Who's the worst opener that you ever had on the road?

[Dana Gould]

Perry Kurtz.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Who's that?

[Dana Gould]

He's now dead. He. He was. He looked like Mark Mothersbaugh from Devo but he would strip and. And he had a motorcycle called the pericycle, and he was. You'd have to look him up. He got killed, like, crossing the street a couple years ago. But we're staying in the condo.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Where was this?

[Dana Gould]

Florida or. Or South Carolina someplace. And he's got herpes medication, other things. And he goes, yeah, I have herpes. How's that? How is that? You know, like, I'm sorry. And then he's trying to pick up this waitress who's, like, 18, and I say, be careful. He has herpes.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You told her?

[Dana Gould]

Hell, yes. And he was furious.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Of course he was.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

He's trying to spread the love.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. She's a kid. You'll ruin her life.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, my God.

[Dana Gould]

And he was. And then he was purportedly, while I was on stage, calling the booker, going, he can't follow me. You really got to flip the order. Which I was like, great. I can do less time. Be my guest. But, yeah. No, he was just. It was just terrible. It was terrible. And, you know, it's funny because you see these guys that are just back on. Back in the day, these guys would be like, go on stage and they're terrible.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But nine times out of ten, they're fine.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yep.

[Dana Gould]

You know, they're just dumb.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yep.

[Dana Gould]

You know, like. Yeah, we can go see Fatal Attraction together at the mall.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. No. Anybody. Anybody's better than alone sometimes. Yeah. Who do you want to give your eulogy?

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Ah.

[Dana Gould]

Well, I was gonna ask you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I'll be dead before you.

[Dana Gould]

I don't know about that. Not with my enemies. Who do I want to give my eulogy? My daughters know. God, that's a great question. I don't really want one.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Really? You're Irish. You gotta have an Irish funeral.

[Dana Gould]

I know. Maybe my telling.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Funny story. Maybe.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. Somebody that. My friend Candace would do it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay. Yeah, I was. I thought you were going to say Bobcat or Tom. Kenny.

[Dana Gould]

Oh, yeah, maybe Bob. Bob would be good.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, Bob would be good.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

He'd be really good.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, he'd be funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. I just. I just did a thing. A friend of mine had a birthday, and they said, do you want to do a video tribute to Maria? And I was like, what the hell happened? And she was, no, it's her birthday. I was like, oh, Jesus Christ. So my video tribute was. I thought she had died. So I did write a eulogy. I'm just gonna do that.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

That's great.

[Dana Gould]

Talked about how she was killed by a bear. And I'm not saying that Bears can't be our friends. But this bear will suffer swift retribution. And you're probably asking yourselves, how will I know it's the bear? I won't. And I don't think it matters. I think any bear sends a message to that end. It's probably easier for me to just go to a zoo and kill one there, which I'm going to do.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's good.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. Or somebody that never met me would be fun. I heard he was nice.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

There's two types of people in the.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

World go.

[Dana Gould]

Father and this. I'm quoting Jim Vallee. And you can also take this to the other gender, fathers and sons. There are people who take care of people, and there are people who wait to be taken care of.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay.

[Dana Gould]

Those are two kinds of people in the world.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I like that.

[Dana Gould]

And you don't have to have children to be one or the other.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

You're like my friend Candace, who I just mentioned.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Is a mother. She's not a daughter.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Dana Gould]

She. She is there to take care of people.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you're a. You're a father.

[Dana Gould]

I am a father.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

I'm. I'm. In fact, I'm so averse to, like, when my wife will hug me, I'll tense up. She's like, oh, look at him. He wants to go change a light bulb. He wants to go fix something. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

All right, last question.

[Dana Gould]

You're a father, too. You're not. You're not a. You're not, like, expecting to be taken care of.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

No.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It's actually to a fault. I wish I could.

[Dana Gould]

I'm the same way. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, yeah. I wish I could accept more.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But, you know, I feel like I'm locked in at this point, and I was sent here to be a father, and I'm just gonna keep being a father. Yeah. I don't think I can change it at this point.

[Dana Gould]

No. I won't sit still for a blowjob. I'm like, okay, I gotta get out of here. This feels too good. Something's wrong.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Although I am good on vacations.

[Dana Gould]

You pulled me over to give me a ticket, and now this?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I will talk to your boss, sir.

[Dana Gould]

I like to speak to your supervisor.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I am good on vacations, though. Like, I can. I can get into being taken care of on a vacation.

[Dana Gould]

What do you want to do on your vacation?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I want to do things. I want to go somewhere, like, interesting. Central America, Europe, explore. I'm not a sit on a beach chair guy.

[Dana Gould]

That's what I want to do.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, interesting.

[Dana Gould]

Go. Because I do every day. Height of the pandemic. I was up at 8. Dressed, wearing a belt.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

To do shaving. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

To do list. Every day.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Created the show. Dr. Z came out of the pandemic. Like, I can't not.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

But on vacation, I was like, I just want to sit.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Nice.

[Dana Gould]

Read a book.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Walk around.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's great. I can do that.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, I can. On vacation. I don't want to win vacation.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right. But we should not vacation together.

[Dana Gould]

No. My wife is like, you just got to just do it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Like, I'd love to go explore an abandoned mine. I do. I really do. I did. In Norway. Great. And if the elevator gets stuck, we're dead. Right. That's where we die. Because we're a mile underground and no one's coming. No. Just checking. So if this door doesn't open, we're rolling the dice.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then tomorrow, Jet skis. Okay, great.

[Dana Gould]

That was really. That was the most fun I've ever.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Had in a mineshaft.

[Dana Gould]

I. We went. My first wife and I went to Bora Bora in French Polynesia, and we got Jet skis, and we're just tooling around Bora Bora on Jet skis. And it was euphoric.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Like, I've never. And it's impossible for me to be on a Jet Ski and not in my head, go, I can't do it. And it was just heavily. And we got back from that vacation, and I was like, oh, my God, I'm so relaxed. I'm going to be like rubber for weeks. In fact, let me write down the date, because I want to find out when I get tense again. What is it? September 10, 2001. Okay. I'm going to be so relaxed for so long.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

September 10, 2001.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah. I'm going to be so relaxed for so long. Next morning, turn on the tv.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, God.

[Dana Gould]

And so. So that happens. And I was working in the Simpsons at the time, and no one's going in. No one's going in. So finally I just said, well, everybody come over to my house, because I was kind of centrally located. So by now it's like two in the afternoon. Everything had happened. My wife and the Simpson staff is coming over to my house. And I was like, we don't have any food because we had just been on vacation. So I said, all right, I'll go to the store. And I went to Rock and Roll Ralph's because we lived up behind the Chateau Marmont, and I just bought a bunch of hot dogs and buns and potato chips. Because quick food for a bunch of people.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And the guy goes, you're having a party. And I was like, yes and no. But I really, I could have been profiled. Like, what?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Who is this? Yeah, Final question and then we'll plug your dates and we'll let you go. What's the hackiest bit you've ever done?

[Dana Gould]

I think I'm doing it now. No, I am. I came up with this bit. I'm gonna do the bit.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay, I'm gonna do the bit.

[Dana Gould]

And my wife went, no. It starts off super hacky.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay.

[Dana Gould]

What I like about Halloween, this is really hacky. But it's got a good structure to it. What I like about Halloween is it's the first time kids are professionally lied to. Fun size candy bars. It's a lot less candy than you thought you were gonna get. That means it's more fun. Explain that. Seems to me it would be less fun. For your convenience, we now have self checkout. How is me doing your job for free convenient for me, that's the definition of less convenient. And my favorite, due to larger than normal call volumes, you may experience extended wait times. You've had larger than normal call volumes for 25 years. Your call volumes are your call volumes. Due to the larger than normal greed of your boss, you won't hire enough people to answer the phone. So why don't you self check out a fun sized candy bar and go yourself? But it's pretty. Those are three. Three turds.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well put together. Look, you know they're well trod areas but you bring it all together with a point of view.

[Dana Gould]

If it didn't have. Well, if I didn't have the ending.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, it would be pretty creepy. Now that's going to be a closer at some point.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, not now.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But I do like.

[Dana Gould]

It's just a Carlin bit by the way. It's a complete. Yeah, that, that math at the end is just, just a Carlin bit.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, you can see that bit at the Comedy Studio in Boston on November 8th where he'll be doing two shows. San Francisco Punchline maybe my favorite club in the country.

[Dana Gould]

First time we met.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's right. I opened for you. And you.

[Dana Gould]

How the mighty have fallen.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, you were nice enough to go, you had to do radio in the morning to promote the show. And you go, do you want to come and do a radio show?

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

And I'd never done a radio show before.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I was so excited.

[Dana Gould]

How did you thank me?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So we do the Radio show and we get in a taxi to come home and we're talking to our driver the whole time and he's Muslim. And we pull up and you and I go, you want to come up to our room and party? It's 8:00 in the morning, but it was.

[Dana Gould]

You're still pretty handsome guy. Like, it wasn't a drug. It wasn't a drug party.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's right. I told him he was a good looking guy.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, good looking guy. You want to come to the room party with us at 8 in the morning?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then.

[Dana Gould]

And he got out. Do you remember what he did?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No.

[Dana Gould]

He got out and did it bow toward Mecca on the sidewalk. And by the way, I'm not making that up. That's the part I remember. I remember two things. I remember two things about that. He had one of those beaded things on the back of his chair that cab drivers used to have with wooden beads to keep your back from getting sore.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I remember that. Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

And then he took out his desk and we were walking to the hotel and you went.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then at the final night of the gig, you gave me a gift and it was a. It was a dime store novel called Hollywood Homo, which is on my bookshelf right now. Dana Gould. Oh, also Solano beach on December 22nd. Dana Gould, thank you for reminding me of that gig. It wasn't on your website. I had to find it on another source. Do you know that? Yeah.

[Dana Gould]

Nine times out of ten. I don't mean to keep interrupting you, but like I will find out. I have a gig by. I get tagged on Instagram, like, oh, is that tonight?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Exactly. That's how you found out about this podcast today.

[Dana Gould]

No, I remembered this one.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Danagoul.com and also check out Dana on local shows all the time. Yeah. All right, man, thank you so much.

[Dana Gould]

I love these.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Aren't these great?

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Shout out to Paul Roman in the Green Lab studios.

[Dana Gould]

Where are you, where are you going?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

On the road.

[Dana Gould]

Where are your gigs?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I got the Den Theater coming up in Chicago in a couple weeks. And then I'm going to Skank Fest in New Orleans for the weekend. And then I've got the punchline December 11th to the 13th.

[Dana Gould]

There you go.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Then I'll be at Bananas in Hasbrook Heights, New Jersey the week of Christmas.

[Dana Gould]

I think I've been there.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Then on the week of Christmas, Cleveland.

[Dana Gould]

After that. With a gun in your mouth.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's right. Praying to whatever lord there is out there.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Cleveland, Hilarities, Atlanta. Punchline, Sacramento punchline.

[Dana Gould]

No, those are I like Sacramento.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Philadelphia, Helium.

[Dana Gould]

Those are all good gigs.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. It's gonna be a busy winter. I don't work in the summer, so I push all my gigs together in the winter because nobody comes to see.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Me in the summer.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

The club. The clubs are empty.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Everybody's at the beach. It gets dark at 9 o' clock at night.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Nobody's coming inside. And then the club owner goes, yeah, we got to give you 30 less.

[Guest/Producer or Additional Host]

Next time because you can't draw.

[Dana Gould]

Yeah, well, I'm interested in what's going to happen now, because usually where I was before was like, a lot of my gigs happened like two weeks before I left. Like, okay, who canceled?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, right? Yeah. And then you get a crowd of black people, you're like, yeah. Oh, was it Ari Spears? Ari Spears, Yeah. All right, man. Thank you.

[Dana Gould]

Great to see you, buddy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Great to see you, too.

[Dana Gould]

Happy Halloween.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Happy Halloween.

[Dana Gould]

Our only holiday.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, we should have dressed up for this.

[Dana Gould]

I have to dress up tonight.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay.

[Dana Gould]

Sam.