Finding Purpose: How to defend your values (w/ Yara Shahidi & Keri Salter)

Summary

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Fixable Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Finding Purpose: How to Defend Your Values (w/ Yara Shahidi & Keri Salter)
Release Date: June 22, 2026
Host: Anne Morris
Guests: Yara Shahidi (Actress, Producer) & Keri Salter (Producer, Yara’s mother)
Setting: Recorded at TED 2026 in Vancouver

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the real-world meaning and mechanism of "purpose" in work and life, as embodied by actress Yara Shahidi and her mother, producer Keri Salter. The mother-daughter duo discuss their production company, Seven Son Productions, built to infuse Hollywood with more inclusive, imaginative storytelling. The episode explores topics ranging from founding a family business, making purposeful creative decisions, the weight of legacy, practical inclusion in media, protecting mental health, and how to harmoniously collaborate with loved ones.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis of Seven Son Productions

[04:05-05:46]

• The company evolved naturally, reflecting ongoing collaborative work between mother and daughter before they had official titles.
• Yara credits her mother with shaping her outlook on life and media:

  “I've inherited her outlook on life and media. And why I wanted to be in television to begin with was because of the stories that she set in front of me.” (Yara, 04:19)

• Keri describes a deliberate choice to nurture her children’s imaginations, limiting TV and encouraging play:

  “I wanted a really big flourished world for these bicultural children I have. The idea of allowing them to imagine was really important to me.” (Keri, 05:14)

• Producing together was an extension of teaching entrepreneurship and possibility to her children.

Learning and Recognizing Innate Skills

[06:51-08:58]

• Both women express surprise at how equipped they already were for producing, especially as women of color.
• Producing is likened to “professional team building” and launching “mini businesses.”
• Anne and the guests note people frequently underestimate their already acquired skills in creative or artistic pursuits.

Disassembling Silos in Creative Work

[08:59-09:12]

• Keri: “Much of that information is siloed… but to pull this off, you have to be part of making it work.”
• Goal is to break down formal and informal barriers in the industry and creative process.

The Concept of “Highest Order” Purpose

[09:15-12:06]

• Yara introduces “highest order” as a guiding principle—asking at each life phase, "What do I want to blossom bigger than this project?"
• Purpose is discussed as a tool for clarifying alignment with collaborators.
• Keri reframes purpose as flexible and liberating, not bound by traditional structures:

  “Time is a concept. So if it only exists in our mind, dream the biggest dream.” (Keri, 11:33)

Living in the Wake of Legacy

[12:06-15:56]

• Anne shares her own experience with the heaviness of inherited legacy, and the journey to finding joy in catalyzing others’ growth.
• Discussion about Yara's tattoos, notably her “63” tattoo, representing a pivotal year in civil rights history, and her personal relationship to legacy and activism.

Joyful, Nuanced Storytelling and Representation

[19:27-24:32]

• Anne praises Seven Son for shifting from trauma-centered storytelling to rich, joyful stories about marginalized communities:

  “This joyful, rich, textured stories where trauma isn’t the main event that moves the plot forward.” (Anne, 21:25)

• Discussion of Heated Rivalry as a radical example of queer storytelling focused on love, not suffering.
• Yara advocates that creators can lead audiences, rather than always “meeting them where they’re at.”
• Keri notes the importance of seeing all types of people (by race, gender, family structure) in varied roles and settings.

Purpose as a True North Amidst Changing Contexts

[24:32-29:38]

• Yara reflects on the challenges of operating with purpose within systems that “project” social progress but often don’t change infrastructure:

  “There is a visual of social progress with these large institutions that we know doesn’t actually exist in the infrastructure right now.” (Yara, 25:55)

• Keri stresses the importance of investment and grace for creators from underrepresented backgrounds, highlighting the need for space to make mistakes, not just a quota system.
• Diversification of their avenues for purposeful impact—fashion, tech deals, mentorship programs—described as a response to industry barriers.

Protecting Well-being & Energy

[29:38-32:01]

• The duo share strategies like Reiki, alternative healing, and anchoring in small daily acts that feel meaningful.
• Purpose doesn’t have to be grand; it can be about making “someone’s Friday feel decadent” (baking, small kindnesses).
• Keri emphasizes the overlooked value in “what you do naturally.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family Business:

  "I always thought if I wanted to support my children, I'd take a second job... sitting on set and teaching them how to be entrepreneurial in their own space was a second job."
  – Keri Salter [05:24]

• On Purpose:

  "Purpose is the operating system... It’s the thing running in the background of every decision."
  – Anne Morris [02:11]

• On Skill Recognition:

  "We underestimate the skills we already have when we're dreaming our biggest dream of our next idea."
  – Keri Salter [08:27]

• On Joyful Storytelling:

  “We ground our stories in reality, but we also know that so many stories have not been told in the tableau of brown, black, immigrant women... So a lot of times our stories are blossomed from places where we need to explore in real time.”
  – Keri Salter [20:06] “What happens when the catalyst is love or self discovery or chosen family—and that is what we're exploring.”
  – Yara Shahidi [23:12]

• On Legacy and Tattoos:

  “It is such a pivotal year in the civil rights movement... I think of people who have laid their lives on the line and what they have blossomed is bigger than any of us could have imagined.”
  – Yara Shahidi [14:16]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Seven Son Productions' Origin & Working Together: [04:05–06:51]
• Recognizing Transferable Skills: [06:51–09:12]
• Purpose & "Highest Order" Discussion: [09:15–12:06]
• Navigating Personal and Inherited Legacies: [12:06–15:56]
• Joy vs. Trauma in Representation: [19:27–24:32]
• Staying True to Purpose Amid Industry Change: [24:32–29:38]
• Protecting Well-being: [29:38–32:01]
• Advice for Family Businesses: [34:34–38:52]
• Personal Joys & Fixations: [39:30–41:13]

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Guidance for Collaborating with Loved Ones

[34:34–39:18]

• Clear division of “lanes” and explicit communication is crucial.
• Harmony, not unison—1+1 can equal more than 2 if each brings a different strength.
• Set boundaries for work/home separation.
• Challenge old familial “scripts” and approach each other as evolving individuals:

  “We’re meeting ourselves as a new person every day, and we're meeting each other as a new person every day.”
  – Yara Shahidi [37:32]

• Family history doesn’t guarantee ease; ongoing dialogue and humility are essential.

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Closing: Fixations & Joys

[39:37–41:13]

• Yara is rediscovering the joy of old time radio detective series—an embrace of pure imagination and audio storytelling.
• Keri is anchoring herself through self-discovery and vulnerability with friends, relishing personal growth separate from her familial roles.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is an insightful exploration of purpose, inclusion, and legacy, with concrete takeaways for anyone seeking to bring their values to work and collaboration—especially with family. Yara Shahidi and Keri Salter offer tangible examples, emotional honesty, and actionable wisdom for listeners navigating the intersection of personal fulfillment and public impact.

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Transcript

[Anne Morris]

Hey listeners, we want your questions. Are you early in your career and trying to find meaning in the job hunt? Are you looking back on years in one industry and wondering if you found your life's work yet or if you might have missed it when thinking about your purpose and how it ties to your career? Whatever's on your mind, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions by emailing fixableed.com and we'll deliver you answers in a special series coming soon.

[Sponsor Announcer]

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[Anne Morris]

Healthcare can feel complicated.

[Keri Salter]

That's why Optum uses technology to connect

[Yara Shahidi]

the people and processes that make healthcare

[Anne Morris]

easier, more affordable and more effective.

[Yara Shahidi]

We're making it clearer for you to

[Anne Morris]

know exactly what your benefits cover and

[Yara Shahidi]

to help you better manage your health.

[Anne Morris]

We're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology.

[Yara Shahidi]

We believe better, simpler healthcare is always possible.

[Anne Morris]

That's healthy optimism.

[Keri Salter]

That's Optum. Visit optum.com to learn more. There is somebody out there who makes the best fricking brown butter chocolate chip bars, right? And they've just been giving them as gifts. And at one moment they may turn their head and say, I can sell these. Your purpose is to make somebody's Friday after work just feel decadent.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

Purpose doesn't have to loom large.

[Anne Morris]

This is fixable. A show where we take the problems at work that feel unfixable and prove that they're not. I'm Anne Morris. We're back with another episode of our Purpose at Work series. And today I want to explore what purpose actually does, not just what it is. We throw the word around a lot, but today's guests are true practitioners of what it means to have clear purpose. Purpose is the operating system. It's the thing running in the background of every decision what to make, who to work with, which stories need to be told. I'm talking about Yara Shahidi and her mom, Keri Salter, who I spoke with at TED 2026 in Vancouver. You probably know Yara as Zoe Johnson from the hit shows Blackish and Grownish. But beyond the acting, she and Carrie are building something together, a production company called seven Son Productions, where the whole point is to make Hollywood more imaginative, more inclusive, and a lot more honest about who stories get told. What makes them unusual is that they're a mother and daughter who actually work together. And what holds them together isn't just family loyalty or shared taste. It's a sense of purpose that feels bigger than either of them when they keep revisiting, stress testing and building on together. I got so much out of this conversation. Purpose only works if it comes with you shaping not just the big calls, but the small ones too. Yara and Carrie, welcome to Fixable.

[Yara Shahidi]

Thank you. Thank you for having us.

[Anne Morris]

Oh, it is such a personal, selfish pleasure to have both of you here. You're our first mother daughter duo.

[Keri Salter]

Hey.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. And I have lots of follow up questions about that, but I want to start with Seven Son Productions. What made you want to start this company and what made you want to do it together?

[Yara Shahidi]

I feel like the evolution of Seventh Son happened quite naturally. Tell me what I'm missing, but at least in my recollection, what do you miss?

[Keri Salter]

Right.

[Yara Shahidi]

Thank you, Mom.

[Anne Morris]

That's the right start. Yeah.

[Yara Shahidi]

It happened quite naturally because we were doing the work of producing without a title. I think our work has always naturally been together because we've had the same values. Outside of the cheekbones, I've inherited her outlook on life and media. And why I wanted to be in television to begin with was because of the stories that she set in front of me. And so when we stepped into producing projects, whether it be short form, whether it be for our business partners in the fashion side, we were already doing what it is to cast, to line produce, to go through a story and think macro about what narrative that we're telling. And many times the title comes after the work, which is, I think, what happened here.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah. And I think, you know, some people know, but they didn't watch TV growing up. So to have a family of actors, they were playing library in the backyard.

[Anne Morris]

So was that a very deliberate choice?

[Keri Salter]

Absolutely. So I was in my bathroom at midnight watching Law and Order. But I wanted a really big flourished world for these bicultural children that I have. And so the idea of allowing them to imagine was really important to me. I don't know where it came from. I remember my father saying to me when I was younger, the reason we don't Watch soap operas. Why would you take on other people's imagined or real troubles if you don't have to?

[Anne Morris]

Right.

[Keri Salter]

Good, bad and different. And so I think, like Yara's saying, before 20th, which was ABC, before they presented us with this idea of will you all produce under our banner, we were already producing. I even turned to a team member of ours saying, why would they approach both of us? And she said, well, that's all you do is produce. And they've watched you with two of your three come through the network and the studio for their own shows. So I think the idea of working together, I always thought if I would wanted to support my children, I'd take a second job. And then I thought, well, sitting on set and teaching them how to be entrepreneurial in their own space was a second job. So I sat, and then we transitioned to really formally working together. But a lot of it is to present to them the possibilities at a very young age. And what young people do is they evolve. They evolve us older ones. And this one was like, let's go, let's go do some things together.

[Anne Morris]

I love it. So, so what has surprised each of you the most about the experience so far?

[Yara Shahidi]

I honestly, not to toot our own horn, but how much we know, I think oftentimes as women speaking just as black and brown women, stepping into this space, there was such a feeling of, oh my goodness, there will be a lot to learn, which absolutely learning new things every day. But I didn't realize how much we had already been doing this work and how much so much of the skills that producing requires, which. Which oftentimes I call professional team building. When you're a non writing producer, it really is having the wherewithal to know what parts go together to create some cohesive structure, because you're basically kind of launching mini businesses every project. Who's gonna lead this? Who's gonna head this up? How are we gonna communicate together? And from the amount of partners that had wanted to work with us to even knowing how to talk to writers, I think our strong suit is separate from what you've blossomed in the creative space. Whether it's your master's in business or coming from the nonprofit space was like, we looked at Hollywood as a job. And we've always been able to balance the humane effort of wanting to bring and blossom a creative idea with the idea of there is a job and an infrastructure that needs to be set in place. And I think that's our strong suit, whether it be talking to writers about all Their ideas. But we also have the ability to talk to studios and say, okay, so what are you looking for and what demographic are you trying to capture?

[Keri Salter]

Yeah. And what's your.

[Anne Morris]

And these are skills, as you said, you've been using those muscles for a long time. By the time you put out the shingle formally.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah. And a lot of people, I think we underestimate the skills that we already have when we're dreaming our biggest dream of our next idea.

[Anne Morris]

One thing I think people underestimate, particularly if they're in that space as an artist, is that if you are making art in a commercial space, that you are learning all of the skills, the underlying infrastructure, leadership skills to pull this off, whatever role you're playing in that moment.

[Keri Salter]

That's right.

[Yara Shahidi]

Absolutely.

[Keri Salter]

That's right. And much of that information is siloed. And our idea on paper.

[Anne Morris]

It's siloed on paper. But to pull this off, you have to be part of making it work.

[Keri Salter]

That's right.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

And we really try and disassemble the silos.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Beautiful. Let's talk about purpose.

[Yara Shahidi]

Let's talk about it.

[Anne Morris]

It's a big word. In my experience. It's clarifying and motivating, but it can also be heavy. Yarav, you've spoken about the idea of highest order before. What is highest order? Where did it come from? What does it mean to you?

[Yara Shahidi]

Yeah, I mean, highest order blossomed, as most things did, from conversations we have with each other pretty regularly. Because aside from the business venture we're on, the beauty of being partners that are related is that we're on a life adventure. And oftentimes what underpins the choices that we make in business is us figuring out where are we at in this phase of life and what do we want to blossom bigger than this project. So sometimes it's community. Sometimes for me, it was in the acting space. I just want new experiences in a world where I felt like I was so close to making the wrong next choice. It was the conversations we had about highest order that was like, I'm not gonna figure out what the next move is by reading a script and knowing it's perfect and knowing it's the right thing. But by taking a step back to be like, at this phase in my. As a 20 something year old, what am I craving? And so the way that we've done it too, is luckily our kind of highest orders oftentimes align about community, experience. What can we put forth into the world? But it's also a way of figuring out alignment between new partners. And I think that has been the most revelatory, is that when we're sitting across from someone else, it makes us break down the assumptions we carry, which is like, I know why I'm doing this right now, and I can only assume why you're doing this right now.

[Anne Morris]

Right.

[Yara Shahidi]

But we know what happens with assumptions. And so the amount of times we'll figure out, like, oh, this is a perfect partner because we want to do this work for the same reason. Versus there's someone that may be doing this.

[Anne Morris]

Explicit conversation is what you're saying. Yeah.

[Yara Shahidi]

Versus someone that may be doing this, let's say, for the check. There is no problem for doing it for the check and wanting to create financial stability. But I think we just have to be clear on that, because it makes us move differently.

[Anne Morris]

Was this a Shahidi family conversation? Highest order?

[Keri Salter]

Yeah. I think it's myself and you and your brothers. Yeah. We talk about. Because it doesn't have to make sense.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

It releases you from the traditional. This is what you do first. Next. You know, time is a concept. Right. So if it only exists in our mind. Dream the biggest dream. Sometimes my highest order is I just want to be laughing.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

And that may then direct me to.

[Anne Morris]

That's so central for me right now in this moment.

[Keri Salter]

Yes.

[Yara Shahidi]

How would you capture yours, then? What would you say your highest order is? And we usually say top three. It doesn't have to be like, you

[Anne Morris]

know, One of the things about this conversation that's interesting to me is I grew up with this idea of highest order as a pretty heavy thing. So my father died young. He left his own small mark in civil rights in America. It was around religious freedom in the military. But I grew up with this idea of this great man, and I was inheriting some part of his legacy that he couldn't fully live out. And one of the joys of getting older for me is that I've allowed some. Just more oxygen around this idea of purpose.

[Keri Salter]

Yes.

[Anne Morris]

And so where I am with it now, I actually kind of resisted it. Where I am in touch with just really what lights me up is the chance to play some kind of catalytic role in other people's lives. And I resisted because I was like, what is this white girl shit? Like, oh, no, it's not about me.

[Keri Salter]

Not you.

[Anne Morris]

But then finally I was like, no, this is why you, like, jump out of bed.

[Keri Salter]

That's amazing.

[Anne Morris]

It has been reported, Yara, that you have 63 tattoos on you.

[Yara Shahidi]

The rumors are true.

[Anne Morris]

And I confess, when I heard that and I was totally projecting. But when I heard that, the mama bear in me got a little protective of you because you're literally carrying kind of the heaviness of that year around with you. So talk to us about that choice.

[Yara Shahidi]

Yeah. Well, it's fun. We actually got our first tattoos together.

[Keri Salter]

We did.

[Yara Shahidi]

So we have tattoos in the same place, but they say different things. Mine is 63.

[Keri Salter]

Mine says I remember. Yeah.

[Sponsor Voice]

All right.

[Anne Morris]

I've follow up questions about both.

[Yara Shahidi]

For me, I think there were a couple things behind 63. One, it is a year of a lot of pain, as you know. And it is such a pivotal year in the civil rights movement as well as what I would consider the catalyst. I think that's such a perfect term. When I think about, let's say, and I'm gonna be referencing specific events, it doesn't capture nearly everything that happened. But the assassination of Medgar Evers, who's a civil rights leader. And I think the connective tissue was that that's what brings James Baldwin home from Paris is he thinks, oh, I'm indebted to my brothers who I've now watched die. When we think of the bombing of the Birmingham church and knowing that Angela Davis mother was one of those girls teachers and that's what sends her on a path of activism. I think it's not that I even believe that pain is necessary for progress, but I think of people who have laid their lives on the line and what they have blossomed is bigger than any of us could have imagined. And then there's super silly things that happen in 63. Such as, like, I think the first X Men comic book comes out in 63. Two of my other favorite books, Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut, James Baldwin's the Fire Next time, they all come out in 63. And so it was something that I was called to without necessarily having an exact timeline. But what it represented to me was feeling that I'm also living in the wake of a legacy. And I'd also have to say, like I've had my own relationship with year after year, how much I feel as though every action of mine has to represent this thing. I'm walking forward and doing and walking from and feeling like now hitting a similar space of if I know that my intention is to be a good human in the world, do I need to be so precise about what living in the wake of a legacy looks like? I got another tattoo recently that's based on the stars in one of Kerry James Marshall's murals. Power and not that was hung up in the Chicago Public Library. And for me, that was a lot more whimsical than 63.

[Anne Morris]

I like that there's joy.

[Yara Shahidi]

I like feeling like there's a cosmos I'm a part of.

[Anne Morris]

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[Anne Morris]

One of the things, of course, that happens in 1963 is the media shows up, right, and puts a spotlight on injustice and suffering and trauma. It's historically how the media has played a role in change, right, is to keep the lights on and force us all to pay attention. I'm so moved by the part of your mission at seven, son, where you're replacing the kind of constant stream of suffering with these more joyful stories and more nuanced stories. How do you wrestle with the tension between those two things?

[Keri Salter]

I think all stories are necessary if there's a story to be told. I believe that we've got great media peers that do that work. It's just, you know, a story can come our way and it's not for us. We may know somebody who could really do this and we will pick up the phone, and that happens for us as well. You know, we ground our stories in reality, but we also know that so many stories have not been told in the tableau of brown, black immigrant women. In all the spaces, fluidity, the stories have not been told. You know, there are stories that are blossomed from simply having, you know, people very close to me in my life that have children and are struggling in this new family dynamic. When one child comes home and says, wait, everybody has dads at school. And those are the real conversations that we're having. And then we're looking at each other like we want to explore that. So a lot of times our stories are blossomed from places where we need to explore in real time along with the people that we love or the people that we support.

[Anne Morris]

And I love your point that you are telling stories in an ecosystem where this part of the ecosystem has been wildly underdeveloped. This joyful, rich, textured stories where trauma isn't the main event that moves the plot forward.

[Keri Salter]

Right.

[Anne Morris]

Have you watched Heated Rivalry?

[Yara Shahidi]

I've started to watch my Functional Medicine

[Keri Salter]

Doctor is like, after going through my blood work, which was stellar, I must say. She was like, have you watched?

[Yara Shahidi]

I was like, that is the tone

[Anne Morris]

that most people ask the question.

[Yara Shahidi]

She said, I love you, seen it.

[Anne Morris]

And like, it's a very powerful example of what you just articulated so beautifully is that it is a queer story where these two, by the way, beautiful. These two beautiful men fall in love. That's it.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

I mean, there's the beautiful men have beautiful sex along the way. Which is why, you know, the viewership is happening.

[Yara Shahidi]

The viewership is skyrocketing.

[Anne Morris]

But as a queer viewer watching the story, like we're just holding our breath for the. Like that something goes horribly wrong and then something doesn't go horribly wrong. Like, that's what's radical about the storytelling. And people went nuts. Like to the commercial point of we have to make this all work in a context of capitalism. People went nuts.

[Keri Salter]

Their story does exist.

[Anne Morris]

Yes.

[Yara Shahidi]

And I think that's something that we talk about frequently, which is oftentimes there's this idea that you have to meet the viewer where they're at. I think the viewer will meet us.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Yara Shahidi]

Because.

[Anne Morris]

And sometimes lead us to new spaces.

[Yara Shahidi]

Oftentimes we deal with such a repetitive framework because there's this feeling of we only know what works based on what people have watched in the past. And it's so kind of chicken or egg, which is like, well, we create what people watch.

[Anne Morris]

But it's also fear based.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Yara Shahidi]

And I think everything that we've worked on, it's not without real struggle or pain, but it's just the idea of changing what the actual inflection point is. Because like you're saying, oftentimes the anchor is the pain versus it's still real life. It's not just always going to be cheery. But what happens when the catalyst is love or self discovery or chosen family. And that is what we're exploring.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah. And sometimes it's putting people in spaces and places that we know these people exist. But the viewership has yet to have the experience. So it could be an Ivy League setting. It could be as a detective, as a CIA agent. It could be just so many things. And then the messiness of life.

[Yara Shahidi]

It's entertaining enough. The messiness of watching us figure out who we're gonna be.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

100%.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

That's exciting.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Inclusion and representation are obviously at the center of your work. And in the last few years, the political and cultural context for that work has changed pretty dramatically, as has the business of Hollywood. How do you reconcile. Have you reconciled the idea of purpose as this true north with the reality of purpose? Or maybe its expression has to change over time as the context around it changes?

[Yara Shahidi]

I'd have to say it does take me back to my Harvard days, because I do remember I was quite a nuisance when I was taking this racial capitalism class because it just put me into this, like, real existential hole of, like, there's no good way to make money, like, there is no ethical way to consume. And I think every time the team would email me an opportunity, I was like, I can't.

[Keri Salter]

Even though this.

[Anne Morris]

I must not.

[Yara Shahidi]

I must not.

[Keri Salter]

But this is the young human that with each. Each client, she'd say, hey, we'd like you to do a philanthropic donation outside of my fee, so we could call our friends at the lgbtqia, you know, spaces, which we've done, like, got a hundred thousand, you know, could you utilize it?

[Anne Morris]

We do love it. I love it.

[Yara Shahidi]

It's a million dollar grant tied to upcoming filmmakers and so let's Make a deal. I'd have to say it was possibly some of our most productive conversations too, because we were the ones having this where I would come out of class and I'd be reading these books and they'd be making these great points, but I didn't know how to put it into practice because what it drove me, I was so overwhelmed by the idea of making the wrong move. And I think it got us, you know, even before this large shift that we've witnessed to really distill why do we do what we do? And like you're saying, what is unchanging about how we move irregardless of what's happening around us? I think this moment in time is really clarifying because as many people know, there is a visual of social progress with these large institutions that we know doesn't actually exist in the infrastructure right now. I think the transparency of what's happening is both terrible but necessary because so many times these power players have been power players for a very long time. Before we knew their names, before they were in every article.

[Anne Morris]

And now subtext is text.

[Yara Shahidi]

Yes, subtext is text. But some of the tension that we were dealing with well before this moment was that these institutions that claim to be socially progressive still aren't necessarily green lighting these stories. We're still not. It's not easier to get our stories onto television. And if anything, it was more confusing because there's all sorts of banners and initiatives and things to make sure that we have this easy pathway to explore all of these stories. And there are great people we met along the way, which that was absolutely their mission, but this large infrastructure wasn't necessarily supporting it. And so I say that as context, to say this is a conversation we've been having well before this year, because it's one that we've been confronted with many times. The idea of whether or not global faces and global stories make money or are worth money has always been up for debate. And unfortunately, every success doesn't lead to setting precedent. But more so, like, well, we already have that.

[Anne Morris]

Right, Right. You know, the quota has been met. Yeah.

[Yara Shahidi]

So rather than feeling like, wow, there's this blockbuster success from this showrunner who explored this really, like, specific community, of course you want to continue in that. They're like, well, they did it.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

And we really try to back to

[Anne Morris]

the procedural for the white cast, but

[Keri Salter]

we really try to remind ourselves and the people that we are surrounded by that the idea of in these communities, brown, black, immigrant, all of the communities, when there's not been the same level of space to make mistakes and keep getting funded, the investment is not deeper, it's longer. They just, you know, every time an executive gets uncomfortable, if you can find that executive, it's like, yeah, but this is their first time. If we have a playwright as a writer and you've not given them the boot camp, if you think their awards that they won for a stage play translate, it doesn't. Yes, they're an incredible writer, but give them the tools instead of saying like,

[Anne Morris]

and the grace and the space to

[Keri Salter]

learn and bring them along, invest.

[Yara Shahidi]

And I'd have to say it takes us to the other lesson of just diversify. Oftentimes, I think the thing that we've been good at is having our hands in a lot of spaces. And so let's say the storytelling is feeling stagnant in the traditional production company sense. That's where. Because we in house produce a lot of the fashion deals that I do, a lot of the endorsements, that's when we get to then change the method. Oh, this isn't working. We're hopping into this space. Oh, this isn't working. Well, luckily, we can do this work in this other space. And so I think our purpose undergirds everything that we touch. But we also acknowledge, yeah, there are certain times where you hit roadblocks. And it's been beautiful to see how each of the respective spaces that we're in has allowed us to explore our purpose in different ways and allowed us to say, hey, this isn't happening here. They're not green lighting things here. But to your point, earlier, through technology company deal we have, we were able to give like 25 young filmmakers the opportunity to go film a movie in Iceland and explore a full year of mentorship or through this other program that we have, then we get to continue to push our purpose forward.

[Anne Morris]

Really smart. You're both leading these very dynamic, high performing, creative lives in a world that's going to fight you on the impact you're seeking to have. I don't need to be the messenger for that. I think you've probably figured it out. How do you protect your sanity and energy and well being along the way?

[Keri Salter]

Reiki just.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Alternative healing. Because there are a lot of people who are listening who are doing their own version of this.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah. And I think we share a lot of, like, if there's a healing modality or a preventative health or an exploration of, you know, anchoring self, we share a lot of those. Like, ooh, I just did this. What do you think of this? But I think just really knowing that purpose is innate, there is somebody out there who makes the best fricking brown butter chocolate chip bars. Right. And they've just been giving them as gifts and at one moment they may turn their head and say, I can sell these. Your purpose is to make somebody's Friday after work just feel decadent. Purpose doesn't have to loom large. And I think many times we overthink it. But I think in these spaces it's great to think about our purpose in many spaces and think about what it is that anchors us personally. Much of it we overlook. We think, oh, that's just what I do. What you do is different from what somebody else does. It's, you know, in the height of the protests some years ago, some of us couldn't be in, you know, protesting because we had immunocompromised humans at home. But what we could do is feed the people. What we could do is send a text of support. What we could do is write the art, help create, buy the markers. There's space for all of us to do things. And I think many of the times we overlook what we're doing. And so going back and re anchoring and what we're able to do naturally, I think helps ease the strife that we may feel from external forces.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. The word that's coming to me as you're talking is sturdiness. Like there's a sturdiness to what you just described.

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[Anne Morris]

For people listening who are thinking about starting a company with their loved ones, do it. Yeah. What advice do you have?

[Yara Shahidi]

What advice do you have?

[Anne Morris]

Oh, I'm.

[Yara Shahidi]

I know I'm in here. What's up? We want to hear.

[Anne Morris]

Let's talk.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

So my wife and I do all of our work together. It's not how we started. She kind of pulled me over to the dark side of consulting and coaching. Well, I do think clarity about Your lanes can be a very powerful kind of hidden structure. And if you can make it explicit. So, I mean, I think the metaphor is harmony, but you each are hitting these very beautiful notes. They're different notes, but they sound great together. And I think that's the goal. If you and your daughter or husband or whatever are hitting the same notes and are gonna be kind of competing for the same space, then I think that's where I have seen it not go well. But if you can harmonize, then I think you really have a chance of one plus one equaling some number bigger than two. Absolutely. And that's what you're trying to solve for. If not, go do your things in separate lanes and come home and talk about it and compare notes. But if there's that alchemy, then it's worth taking it quite seriously because it is a beautiful way for sturdiness for, like that I get to be in these public spaces that are fighting me on what I'm trying to do there. And I get to have the love of my life next to me. She's doing her thing. She's fighting in her own way, but there's nothing like it.

[Keri Salter]

Do you also find that when you get home, that's home time? Yeah, because I think some people are

[Anne Morris]

important to defend it. It's important to say, okay, now we're. Or transitioning out of work more. Cause the risk is higher that you just get. You just work all the time.

[Keri Salter]

Right. So you may get to your next meeting and you all haven't talked about whatever that last topic is because work was over. And I think that's a beautiful thing. You know what you're reflecting. What we're reflecting is this idea that one, be earnest. Be honest about who you're thinking about. Many times we're stuck in a traditional mindset. Oh, that is my sister. I have to do that with her. No, you don't. Yeah, no, you don't. And so be honest. Take a step back. Think about yourself. Think about yourself in relationship to the person you may be considering. And if you all are already fussing over what you were supposed to take the trash out.

[Anne Morris]

And those are old scripts, too.

[Keri Salter]

Those are old scripts.

[Anne Morris]

So interrogate the scripts you're bringing into this. Because you cast each other in that role when you were six. That's right. And so making that discussable. I do think that's.

[Keri Salter]

Yes. And so you may have. It may blossom something else before a business. It may blossom other conversations with this person that you were considering because they are Your fill in the blank. But, yeah, I would say yes.

[Anne Morris]

But you said do it. Your first response was, do it.

[Keri Salter]

Absolutely.

[Yara Shahidi]

I think the thing that we've continued to do with ourselves and with each other to also make this work is know that we're meeting ourselves as a new person every day, and we're meeting each other as a new person every day. To your point, I think both of you said this really beautifully. Just this idea that just because you have known this person for a long time does not mean that you have an understanding of this person in a way that we may assume.

[Anne Morris]

That kind of humility.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah.

[Yara Shahidi]

And I think so much of what allows for us to work together so fluidly is that we're always talking about who we are, who we want to become, the things that we're really happy with in ourselves, the things that are feeling a little upended. And similarly, with the work, I think in the span of our production company, there have been many pivots of. We used to move this way. And we used to. It may be an example of, okay, we used to think we have to get somebody that has no credits to their name and get them through the door and da, da, da, da. And then it was like, no, we want to create sustainable infrastructure. And so we may get a more accredited writer, but then that means we have a writer's room with 20 open slots. Cause we got it through the door and through the thing. And that requires us always being in conversation about who we are as people, what has moved us. Shoot. I was not the same kid that was in the racial capitalism class.

[Keri Salter]

And I think the nuance of being her mother. We're friends. We're all the things. And I'm her mother. And so there are plenty of times where she may be like, oh, I'll be on that meeting. Like, no, you won't. You're gonna be out living your life in Rome. My foot is on her proverbial backside.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

To go live her life. Yeah.

[Yara Shahidi]

If I'm outside in the world, it's because she's inspired me to get out.

[Keri Salter]

I have blocked the door. Like, you can't come back in. You cannot come back.

[Yara Shahidi]

The way people think, it's reversed. They'll see me outside, and they'll be like, oh, does Carrie. Does my mom know she's the reason I'm outside? Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

All right. A final question we ask all our guests. What is one thing that you're each fixated on? Something joyful, something light.

[Yara Shahidi]

Oh, my God. Right now, I'm fixated On an old love from when I was 14, which is old Time Radio. Great detective series.

[Anne Morris]

Oh, nice.

[Yara Shahidi]

Johnny Dollar. Dragnet.

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[Yara Shahidi]

X Men.

[Anne Morris]

Dragnet.

[Yara Shahidi]

The Saint, the Shadow, the Whisperer.

[Anne Morris]

And this is all audio. This is all audio because we didn't.

[Keri Salter]

They didn't watch TV growing up. They watched maybe an hour a week.

[Yara Shahidi]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

And so we were audio, our audiophiles. Yeah.

[Yara Shahidi]

And I've always been a podcast nerd, always loved true crime. But there's been something about stepping back into that space, like you've said, of just pure imagination at night, of putting on an episode and imagining what the world looks like that has been so fun and very portable.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Keri Salter]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

You can take it with you to Rome.

[Yara Shahidi]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

What about you, Carrie?

[Keri Salter]

I would say now that my youngest is headed off to university and everybody's doing their thing, it has really been anchoring myself in the mornings, in the midday at night, and being more vulnerable with my friends. I just held a lot from a place of this is what I'm supposed to do as a woman, as a black woman, as a mother, as a wife. And I don't know if it's menopause, I don't know what it is where you just get to a point where you.

[Anne Morris]

I'll just tell you, it's a big variable.

[Yara Shahidi]

You get to a point where you're like, yeah, I'm not doing anything anymore.

[Keri Salter]

And so starting to get to know myself, not in as a reflection of that's huge. But as myself, and that's been really fun.

[Anne Morris]

Thank you both for this beautiful conversation.

[Keri Salter]

Thank you.

[Anne Morris]

Loved having you on the show.

[Keri Salter]

Thank you.

[Yara Shahidi]

Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been so nice to be able to talk about this side of our work.

[Anne Morris]

If you're enjoying this show, make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and tell a friend to check us out. Fixable is a podcast brought to you by Ted and Pushkin Industries. It's hosted by me, Anne Morris, and me, Francis Fry. This episode. This episode was produced by Trina Menino. Our team includes Constanza Gallardo, Banban Chang, Daniela Balaurasso and Roxanne Hylash. Our show is mixed by Louis at Storyyard.

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